Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Mysterious Death of Mateusz Kawecki

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The Mysterious Death of Mateusz Kawecki · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes things are not always what they seem. An innocent
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: road trip, a little white lie, and the death of
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a loved one. Today's case has all these things in common.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: As Matthaeas was on his way home to see the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: birth of his first child, he suddenly went missing without
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a trace, before turning up in the most unlikely place
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: dead months later. This is the story of Matteas Koweki.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole and you're listening to
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Congratulations to the Florida Panthers on winning the Stanley Cup.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: We watched the final episode right before recording.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: So episode game game.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Episorry thinking podcasts. I've got episode in my head, but
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I mean it's still episode. But we watched the seventh
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: game of the series and yeah, it was a darn
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: good game. Good both Oilers and Panthers. They they played
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: really well.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: They both wanted it, but only one team can win.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I guess yeah. And I know for some of you,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you really want to be Patreon subscribers and you subscribe
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  Speaker 1: to us, so we're gonna thank our Patreon subscribers who
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  Speaker 1: subscribed last week. If you're interested, you can go ahead
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: and check the link below. But for now, we got
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to thank Daniel Martin, Bethany Leviser, and Cole Carpenskey. I
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: totally butchered your name, Nicole. I'm sorry, Nicole Carpestine, Krpestine,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: there we go, and Erica Fouch. Okay, thank you guys
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: so much for something you appreciate it.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Dang good, looks right there?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Did you not like my segue that time? I chuckled
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: to myself? You chuckled to yourself to myself? Okay, well,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: coming up soon is going to be the worst segue
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: in the Patreon you've ever heard.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Coming to a theater, new you.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: We're not in theaters, I know.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I just let my thoughts come forward, okay, all right,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Well then apparently to a theater near you and Nicole's thoughts.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of stuff goes on.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Her brain, A lot, a lot of shit. Clearly it
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: never stops.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: What never stops? Also, is us producing the show because
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: we now have been producing on Fridays every other Friday
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: right now. So last Friday, it was our first.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Friday was our first one.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not doing one Friday, but next Friday, alternating
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: until our two hundredth episode. There we go, and then
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: we'll go full time Fridays.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty big deal. People are excited about it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: We are, and actually looking at our analytics and how
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: many people are listening. I don't know if there's many
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: of you who skipped out on Friday's episode. It seems
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: like everyone who listens on Tuesdays showed up Friday to listen.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Love that, so thank you guys so much for that support.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: That means the world to us.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Sure does.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: But all that stuff aside, should we get into this?
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: This is kind of a suspenseful, kind of like thriller
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: case almost. It's like, I don't know how to really
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: describe it. It's a mystery. It's strange, It twists and turns,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and it's up for you to really say what you
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: think of it. Okay, I know what I think. There's
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: some people out there who certainly know what they think,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: but regardless, there's still unanswered questions.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Have different opinions kind of thing with this one.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: There's people with different opinions. Definitely, did you just like
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: punch makers.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I kind of just yeah, you're a whole thing today.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I am a bit of a hot mess right now
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: because it's like scorching hot in here. Can I don't
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: get warm?
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Like like five minutes ago, before the episode started, I said, dang,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: it's warming here. I turn in the AC.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: You're like, I'm fine, yeah, But now I'm not clear
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: because I had to close all the down windows so
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: it was quiet, and now I'm just like, huh, it's
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit warm.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, Nichole's having a hot flash here. She's got
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: some water she can drink, So do I pretty quick,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you know, but we're going to start this case.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: You should be careful what you say. That might be
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: happening soon.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Starting this case. It is happening right now, okay.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: So.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Matthaeus Koweki was born on July or sorry not July
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: June fourteenth, nineteen eighty seven, in Poland. He was born
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: in a modest and close knit family. He was a
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: person who was known for his kind age in strong
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: sense of responsibility. He was a diligent and hard working
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: individual from a very early age. These traits continued and
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: followed him into adulthood and to find his interactions with
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: those around him. Growing up in a small town, his
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: family provided a supportive environment. Despite their modest means, they
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: were united and cherished time together. After completing his education
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: in Poland, Matteas made his big move over to Germany,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: seeking better job opportunities, where he settled in Hanover, where
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: his work ethic and reliability made him a very valued employee.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Over the years, he successfully built a stable life in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the bustling city. Matteas was making new friends easily as
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: he was very friendly and approachable. He kept in touch
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: with a wide circle of people both in Poland and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: in Germany, and always stayed in close contact with his family,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: often visiting his mother and siblings back home in his downtime.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Matteas had a passion for technolog and gadget It's always,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: you know, staying updated with the latest and greatest trends
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: and everything. He always enjoyed traveling and exploring new places.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: You know that traveling is probably a trait that likely
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: influenced his decision to move to Germany in the first place.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Right now, throughout all his passions and everything that Matteas
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: had going on for him, though, there was one piece
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: to the puzzle that was most important to all, most
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: important to him overall his girlfriend Agatha. They were currently
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: enduring a long distance relationship as she was still in Poland,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: but despite the distance, they maintained a serious and steady
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: relationship together. Agatha was actually even pregnant with their first child,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and the couple were making plans for their future together
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: as a family. Life for Mattaeas was going great. That
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: is until one evening on March twenty eighth, twenty eighteen.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly got to build that suspense.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, shit.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: So Matthaeas was then thirty years old. He was preparing
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: for a visit to his family in Poland, with his
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: girlfriend nearing the end of her pregnancy. She was expecting
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to give birth at any time, and the time came
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: when she went into labor, and this sent Matteas into
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: travel mode, where he hit the road to be with
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: his beloved family. He got into his car and left Hanover, Germany,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: around eleven thirty pm. The car was in nineteen ninety
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: eight BMW five twenty five and he began this six
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: hundred and forty seven kilometer drive east to lip Agora,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: a city in the north east sorry northwest in Poland,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: where his family and girlfriend lived. He was scheduled to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: arrive around eight or nine the following morning am. On
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the morning of March twenty ninth, Matteas called his father. Now,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the phone call was at about ten thirty am, a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: little bit late as it was, but Matteas explained that
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: he had gotten caught up in several traffic jams and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: I cannot pronounce the city, but I'm going to try.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: It's got several seas and Z's in it. It's sudzids In,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I think, is how you say it, okay, which is
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: a city. Just passed the border into Poland. So he
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: was now officially in Poland, but he still had two
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: hundred and fourteen kilometers to travel before he reached Agatha's home.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Matteas reassured his father he'd be arriving soon, and sent
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: a message to Agatha as well, informing her of the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: delay and estimating his arrival to be, you know, just
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: a couple more hours.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, But he's already kind of like a few a
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: couple hours later than he had originally expected, or they expected.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Well, they they figured eight or nine and it's now
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: ten thirty. So it could be you know, two and
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a half hours later or an hour and a half
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: late somewhere in there. Yeah, and with traffic jams or
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: maybe car accidents or construction, who.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Knows what right can happen.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Definitely, I know we've waited in construction for beyond an
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: hour easily in one syc alone, So.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, I mean, gosh, that's frustrating though, if you're
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: like needing to get somewhere because you have a baby being.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Moor no kidding. So regardless, he was doing what he
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: needed to do to get home, and he was keeping
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: his family in the loop. So Mattias, though never made
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: it to Lipigor. As hours passed by, there was no
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: word of him, and his family began more and more
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to be increasingly worried. Despite repeated calls and messages to him,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Mittaeas never answered, and his phone did seem to be
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: on as the calls were going through, just no one
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: picked up on the other end. By late afternoon, with
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: no sign of Mattaeas, his mother went to the police
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: to report him missing. However, the officers discouraged her from
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: filing a report, insisting it was too early that Matteas
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: would likely turn up soon. Eventually, though, the family's concerns,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: deemed excessive by the authorities, were soon validated as a
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: clock continued to tick by and he never arrived at home,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and it seemed Mitea simply vanished without a trace.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: That waiting period is so hard. Hey, Like, I understand
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: it from the authorities point of view. He has a
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: lot of people. I think they do turn up, but
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: then the ones that don't, it's like that so much
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: wasted time kind of is you could be.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Searching it is, And I think it's really up to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the discrepancies on the situations with how they treat it. Like,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: for example, he was an hour and a half late
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and he was last contacted, it's not going to be
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: absurd to assume that he's going to be late a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: little bit more, right so, And if your kid is
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: supposed to be home from school and they're like nine
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: years old, and it's like they're home every day at five,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know where they are. It's been two hours. Yeah,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: that's a little more concerning. But an adult doing a
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: road trip, you never know what is. Maybe you got
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: a flat tire and he's fixing it right now.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: But he was sort of needing to be some for
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: quite a big event. Oh for sure, this one sort
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of makes sense.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Too, it does. But at the same time, and don't
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, I'm agreeing with you. Just Devil's advocate
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: here right. At the same time, there's a lot of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: things that can can hold up a road trip, can
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: hold up an adult on the road trip. You know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: what if he is having car trouble, what if his
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: car broke down the side of the road.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Or he's having stomach issues.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, to stop repeatedly exactly, there's there's things, right, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: not only that, he is an adult. You know, they
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: can make decisions. Maybe he decided for whatever reason, he
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: turned back and went home, like maybe the authorities just
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: saying that he can do what he wants.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Right, that's true.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: He's not missing just yet, so I get you. But
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Devil's advocate here, right. So finally, though, the family was
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: able to officially put in im missing person's report in
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: early April, so it would have been a few days later.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And I don't know the exact date. All I know
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: is it was early April. So he officially was missing
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: on March twenty ninth, so I mean early April technically
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: could be April first, so yeah, it could be, but
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: early April could also be April fifth, sixth, seventh, I
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: don't know. I could never find a specific date, but regardless,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: they actually filed two missing persons reports, one in Poland
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and one in Germany. Initially this sounds like a good idea,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: and I mean it is technically, but as for effectiveness,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: it creates a lot of issues. There was a large
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: disconnect with a bureaucratic barrier between the two police from
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: both countries. The German police simply said he was last
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: contacted in Poland, right, he's not missing in Germany, and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that start not our jurisdiction. There's nothing we can do,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and yeah, good luck, okay. And even the Polish police
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: didn't exactly put a lot of focus on efforts in
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: the case. Either didn't help, but the disconnect between them
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: and the German police was so extreme, with one police
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: force trying to pass it off on the other.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Dang, that's really disappointing.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: It is. Eventually, though, the family managed to pressure the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Polish police to track Matteas's phone, which apparently remained on
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: for at least two days after he had disappeared. Because
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: They're still trying to call and message him, right, phone
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: calls are still going through two days afterwards. So unfortunately,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the Polish police were unable to track the phone because
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Matteas living in Germany, had a German simkart installed in
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: his phone.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Okay, this is complic This is getting complicated.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: It does get a little bit complicated for sure, Like,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're dealing with two separate countries here, you're yeah,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: so it gets a little bit muddy. But I mean
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: that's why we have Interpol right now. Unfortunately, I didn't
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: find inner Poll in any of my research with this.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe they stepped in at some point, but it doesn't
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: sound like they had much of a presence. If they
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: did so, it means though that attempting to involve the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: uncooperative police in Germany was going to have to occur.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: But they responded by their response was simply just them
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: saying they too couldn't track the phone. He may have
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: had a German SIM card, but he was in Poland,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: which means they're bouncing off like Poland towers and stuff, right,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: so they can't they can't trace them. Oh my gosh,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: that's like saying I have a GPS that tracks you
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: around Earth, but that GPS is on Mars, you know. Yeah,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: sure I have that. I can connect to the GPS,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: but the maps are there's nothing to show me anything.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I had no idea any of the
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: shit was so complicated like that just seems crazy. Well,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, it makes sense, but it's also like frig.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and to what degree they're just trying
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to pass the book off to the other a thing,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Who knows. But some of these things, especially with the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: cell phone in the same card, definitely makes sense to me. Now.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: As this quasi investigation continued, Polish police told the family
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that Matteas's phone never actually connected to the Polish network
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: at all, but that directly contradicts what they experienced and said,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: because they told him that about ten thirty that morning.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: He called them saying he was saying he was in Poland. Okay,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: but they're saying that they never got any sort of
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: pain regarding him.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Poland is saying that correct.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Matteas's family weren't sure what to believe. Both the police
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: forces were telling them we couldn't track and now they
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: couldn't confirm that if he actually connected at all, it
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: seemed like an attempt to push the case off back
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and forth, as I had already mentioned, and they were
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: provided with one interesting piece of information though. At the
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: border crossing that is an unmanned border crossing, which means
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: they don't have employees or anything. It is heavily monitored
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: with security cameras. Security cameras that do take every plate
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: that crosses the border, so they can, you know, see
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: everyone record what they need to right, anything that's going
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: between the countries. When they search the cameras from Mattaas's
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: license plate, he never crossed the border into Poland.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, okay h and at this point too like
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: he has a baby, right, I'm assuming this baby is
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: born and correct. Yikes.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So this only gave Poland more reason to push the
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: case back to Germany.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Uh huh okay.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So the family, now confused and understandably frustrated with both
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: police forces, decided it was time to take matters into
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: their own hands. Now, authorities had brought up the idea
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that he may not have actually entered Poland by car
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: instead maybe public transport, So if he did, the family
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: began going along those routes they are plastering posters everywhere
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: anywhere he could have taken, either by car or by
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: train or whatever other mode of transportation. They searched for
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: his car. They talked to gas station attendance, requested security
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: camera footage, and even did press releases both in Germany
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: and Poland to appeal to the public for any information
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: that they might have. No matter what they did, though,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: they came up empty handed each and every time, no
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: sign of his car and no sign of Matteas.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's so frustrating. It sounds like they did
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a lot. They were doing like the best they could, though.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: They were I think the only ones doing the best
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that they could.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Which I is so terrible to say.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, but I think that is just the situation,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to blame the police forces for it.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is really mudded and complicated when you
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: do have two countries like that. It is, but I
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: do think they could have been doing more.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you also, I mean we have those kind of
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: individuals there for a reason to help in situations.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Like this, right definitely. Now, time just kept going by
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: as they're searching, doing what they can, trying to figure
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: whatever out, and each passing day not holding any new
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: sign of what happened to him until finally one day,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: five months.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Later, five months, five.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Months, five months have passed. So it was on September twelfth,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Mattias's mother her a knock at the Dorner home. Now,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: this home is in Hutco, a small village near Zamsock, poland.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: You forgot to do your.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I was going to do it. I was okay, I
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: was literally about to do it, and I was like,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I'll just like change it up. So do you want
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: me to do it?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of your thing. I was like kind
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: of disappointed.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me back up, Okay. On September twelfth, twenty eighteen,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Mattias's mother her a knock at the Doorner home. There
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you go, Okay, there we go. So there was a
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: knock at the door and when she opened it, she
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: was greeted by a familiar face the neighbor. Now they
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: were there because they were asking permission for something. They
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: had a concern about the family barn. And this was
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Matteas's family barn, the Kuwaki family barn. Right, the barn
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: was a shared structure. And though I don't have any
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: details on exactly how the quote shared part of it worked.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: The neighbor clearly had access to the barn. I don't
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: know if it's like renting out bays and they type
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a bay or some rooms in it they rent out
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: for storage. I'm not certain, but there's shared areas of
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: this single structured barn okay. So the neighbor had this
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: access and they were complaining about a smell that was
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: coming from the barn since about July. The neighbor was
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: hoping to get permission to search the area of the barn,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: you know, areas that they didn't have access to, in
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: order to figure out what was going on. So she
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: gave permission and actually agreed to help search as well.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: They both presumed it was an animal that you had
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: found its safe place inside the barn to peacefully pass away,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and was causing the ode. They searched through the barn
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and couldn't find any obvious source of the strong smell,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you know, something that was emanating through the barn. It
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: was quite pungent. So they began to search other areas
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: that weren't so open or accessible. One area was a
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: part of the barn that had a portion walled off
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: forming kind of a separate room. This room had an
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: attic or a loft space to it. The neighbor entered
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the room and climbed up to this loft area to
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: scope it out. And initially, when they poked their head
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: up there, they saw something odd, a pile of clothes
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: laying on the loft floor. As their eyes adjusted to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: the low light in space, they looked a little closer,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: they made a horrible realization. It's not just a pile
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: of clothes. There was a decayed and withered human body
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and a severed head laying on the floorboards. Police were
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: immediately called to the scene to investigate.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: My gosh, is it him that? Okay, that would make
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: no sense. That would make no sense.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to dive into some more of the
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: details that might explain this, okay, But like I said,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: this one gets like pretty odd and all over the place,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: kind of like I don't even know how to describe it.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of details to take in.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Here, okay, Okay.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: So along with the body, they found a rope configured
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: as a noose dangling from the barn rafters. Above where
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the body was laying. There was a backpack containing some
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: items including a water bottle, cigarette butts, and orange juice.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: It was also found that some teeth were knocked out
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of the mouth of the victim and were stuck to
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: their clothing with dried blood. Through both the identification of
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: some of the personal belongings and forensic DNA analysis, it
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: was confirmed that the body in the barn that was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: found in the loft was that of Matteas Kouweki.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Shit.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Everyone was at a loss for words. Of course, they
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: were mourning, but nothing made sense. How did he get there,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: why was he there? And how long was he there?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Even as authorities began their investigation with some items found
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: in the body and in the backpack, more questions just arose.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: For example, I mentioned the orange juice carton in his backpack.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Matteas hated orange juice?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Really, yes, okay, I fucking love orange juice.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Sorry, just throwing that out there.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean to each their own, Yeah that wow, okay.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. His phone was discovered on him as well, and
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: when the phone records were gone through, they found that
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: there was a call place to Mattaeas's uncle on March thirtieth,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, which was the day after he was last
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: heard from.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: To his sorry, his uncle, his uncle, his uncle, okay,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: and his uncle then never said anything about this.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Well, hold on here, I got a check to see
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: if I wrote something, because I don't think my next
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: words not regarding us, So I was going to make
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: sure that. Okay, you going to tell you now. If
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I have it later on, then we'll just jump over it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: The phone call was actually it only was like one
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: second long. The phone call actually never went through to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: the uncle, so he never received the phone call, so
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: they believed he probably dialed that number by accident. But
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: still that's they've been trying to reach him. They've been
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: trying to call him. He's supposed to have arrived, so
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it shows activity on his phone after he's disappeared for sure.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: There was also evidence found that Matteas had taken a train.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Receipt was discovered in his possession that showed he had
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: boarded a train from Hamburg to Frankfurt, a town near
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the border but still in Germany. Police believe from there
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: he entered Poland by foot and began looking for where
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: he may have stayed, and soon enough they discovered he
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: had checked into a hotel in Sulbis, a Polish town
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: just across the border from Frankfort. The hotel records also
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: show that he checked in with another unknown person, though
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the identity of this individual remains unknown. This is nearly
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours after he last contacted his family.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Female or male or what do we know?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: That unknown person?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, So after diving into this case for a while
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: and following the trail that Matteas left behind, authorities decided
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it's clearly a suicide and that was that refused to
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: investigate further.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. So they're just continuing on with, you know,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the way they started basically pretty much.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So they believe that Matteas planned everything from misguiding his
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: family to his whereabouts to making his way back home
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: and secretly hanging himself in the loft of the barn.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: In regards to his body being found decapitated, they say
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that he hung himself and he was left there decaying
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: over time, that he would decayed to quite the point
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: that his body weight ripped his own head from his body,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: and together they slumped on the loft floor, where they
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: stayed until he was discovered.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. I mean, I have no idea if it
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: kind of makes sense, I guess though, that part, I guess.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know brudal though.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean if you look at like movie like
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Pirates of the Caribbean, they show skeletons hanging by their neck.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: So I've never really thought about, you know, the head
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: popping off. But yeah, it makes sense to me too.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like it. It's a visual I really
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: never really needed to think about though.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So gross, Yeah, huh So. To authorities, there were
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: no traces of criminal activity found in either his disappearance
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: or in his death. With this conclusion, the family was
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: upset with the findings. How could he have killed himself?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: He was on his way home to greet his newborn
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: child into this world. Something was not sitting right with them.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Two days after the discovery of his body, the police
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: returned the personal effects found with the remnants taken from
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: the barn. So two days after finding his body they
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: had this conclusion.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's really soon.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The family begged for them to reconsider and continue
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: investigating by searching the barn more thoroughly. Now. They didn't
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: exactly want to do that. They refused. They said, there's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: too much hay in there. There's just too much. We're
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: not going to find anything, and we're done. Two more
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: days passed and the family began to search the barn
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: for themselves. It didn't take long and they found one
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of his shoes in the loft with his detached foot
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: still inside. The family tried to use this as proof
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: that the police didn't do their job properly to search
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the barn. They even showed that the autopsy report done
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: on Matteas didn't even mention that he was missing his foot.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, because yeah, that right there, like that, there
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: would be no explaining if he had committed suicide, why
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't why his foot would not.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Be well attached. I mean, if his body is decomposed
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: to the point that his head rips off, I'm sure
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: when he hits the ground, his foot could rip off.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I guess. I guess. So. Still, they shouldn't. They should
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: have found that.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: That's that's the exact point. I don't think the foot
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: being detached is saying anything as like, hey, here's some
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: suspicious activity. It's like, you guys didn't even find his
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: fucking foot and you did an autopsy. What kind of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: autopsy did you fucking do? If you didn't even notice
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: his foot was missing.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's brutal.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's what they're after. They're like, what the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: actual fuck are you guys doing shit?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like i'd beat pissed.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So they did manage to get some more investigation underway.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: And would they even trust anyone at that point? I
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: feel like I wouldn't.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Well, what else do you do? You need? You need
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: investigators at this point, that's what they do. You can't
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: do it. You're gonna muddle it, muddle information, or you
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: can go to jail or who knows what.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: That's tough.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned, they did get some more investigation
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: going and evidence was reevaluated, so they did try to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: dig into what actually happened. For example, during the second
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: round of the analysis of his clothes and belongings, no
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: DNA other than Mattaeus's was allegedly found. Additional evidence and
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: findings that did come out in the process include more
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: receipts and security footage that helped shed a little light
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: on what happened in the days leading up to his
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: final days. As it turns out, Mitteus lied on the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: day of his disappearance when he spoke to his father,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: he was not where he claimed to be. Not only that,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: he wasn't even in the car, he was still in Germany,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: as we know. He did, in fact take a train
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: to Frankfurt and then walked across the border into Poland.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: He checked into a hotel and with this unidentified person
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: along the way, stayed there. The next day, he took
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: a train to Warsaw and then a bus to Zamosk,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: which is the largest city near the village of Hutko,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: about twenty kilometers away. He arrived in Zamok around midnight.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: From there, it's unknown where or how he reached Hutko,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: let alone how he ended up dead in the barn
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: in on his family's property. His car keys, however, along
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: with his car, were never found, never neither in Germany
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: or in Poland. The BMW simply disappeared.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Hmm, Holy you weren't kidding when you said this was
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: a mystery.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm usually pretty honest with that sort of thing.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I either do one hide the fucking fact that it's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a mystery to the bitter end, or I tell you
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: right out flat. And I told you right out.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Flat, Yeah, because honestly, this just makes no sense to me.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah at all. Yeah, that's pretty much this case in
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: a nutshell. Cool now Mateus's cousin Eda, I believe is
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: how you say their name stated quote. It's very strange
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: because we've been in this barn many times during this period.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: The door was wide open and no one noticed anything.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: The prosecutor claims he was hanged there, but we don't
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: think so, because we simply didn't see it. It wasn't there.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: This is a strong portion of the foundation that pushed
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Matteas's family to thinking there was foul play involved in
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: his death, let alone his disappearance. Right, They never noticed
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: him hanging from the rafters, though the area was in
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a separate room to access this loft, The loft is
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: somewhat visual from many parts of the barn.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, so if someone was hanging there, you would probably notice.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But months passed and no one noticed a thing.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: They also pointed towards Matteas's teeth that were found knocked
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: out and stuck to his clothing by blood. By all accounts,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: this suggested significant trauma, as it is very unusual for
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: teeth to be dislodged post mortem without any extreme force.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Applied now, falling from the floor like that would not
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: cause teeth to be knocked out, let alone own be
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: stuck to the clothing with what seems to be fresh blood.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: No, Yeah, that doesn't make sense to them.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Mittaeas did not kill himself. Some forensic experts and criminologists
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: are even skeptical as well, ruling out the whole suicide thing,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: pointing to things like the knocked out teeth for evidence.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: They believed that someone killed Matteas for one reason or
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: another and staged the suicide in the barn. The family
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: accused the first responders at the scene of negligence, particularly
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the individuals who didn't want to search the barn more
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: thoroughly because they allegedly said, quote it would take too
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: long to sift through the hay. An internal investigation was
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: apparently launched on the mishandling of the evidence for what
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: occurred with first responders at the scene. They found misconduct
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: did occur in regards to their protocols, and two officers
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: were allegedly quote punished.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's oh my gosh, holy shit like this. That's
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: a maddening for the family.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just yeah, what do you do with that? Though?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I know, well you hear about some cases where they
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: hire their own investigators and stuff, but.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fair enough.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: That costs money, right that people might not have or
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: maybe that community doesn't even have that like available. Yeah,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: so hmm, I do feel like though, well I don't know,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I just I just have this thought that someone that
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: he could have been hanging there and maybe not have
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: been noticed though, because like sometimes there's areas that you
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: don't look.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Right, that's true, but even still, like this is a
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: not even just the family going in now, this is
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: a shared barn, so you have a lot of people
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: most likely using this.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well there was a smell for some time since
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: approximately July, and he was supposed to be you said April. Yeah, okay,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: huh okay.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So that's not that long July to when he was found,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Like he was missing for five months ish, so that
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: smell didn't emanate throughout that barn for four months.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely would have.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so if someone placed him there in July, that
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: would have explained the smell just starting in July and
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: not the four months prior. So there's also something that
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: people talk about. With this being a rather small village,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: most people recognize or know each other, and no one
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: saw any suspicious activity. No one saw any strange individual
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: going around the property or anything.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I know, it's like they he probably knew them. I'm
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: thinking the potential, which is so sad.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: So while this case was what it was solved, Polish
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: authorities only actually formally closed the case in twenty twenty one.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: To the eyes of the law, Hayas lied and hung himself.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: But to his family, they know he would never have
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: done this and that someone out there, most likely that
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: strange person he was seen with checking in at the hotel,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: likely knows what really happened to him that day.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, someone does for sure.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And that's the story of Matteas Kuweki.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's it. That's all we get.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I have no idea.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I've got to say, you did not talk a lot
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: this episode, and like I have a lot written and
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I blew through all that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I was very very intrigued, and I was like,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I'm going to really pay attention because sometimes I literally
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: like am here, but I'm not here, And this one,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm really going to pay attention because like
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: it's a mystery and I want to solve it.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Wow, way to just admit that you don't even listen
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: When I'm talking listen, I would say like ninety four
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: percent of the time. But like my brain's spaghetti, and
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: there's just a lot going on in there.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I get because lots of time, like when you're when
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: you're listening to a case, you almost get hung up
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: on a detail at times and you're really thinking of that.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: It kind of is hard to listen to the other
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: person presenting at times. Yeah, so I feel you fair enough.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, and I just need to ask a question
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: though I did miss something. He was in Germany? Why
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: was he there for school? Storry or what? Did you say?
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: He for work? For the better work opportunities? Okay, so
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: he was he was living in Germany for work, yea.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Man, Okay, that doesn't help me answer any of my questions.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Nope. And he was there for a few years, like
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I believe he was working like a construction job or
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: something for five years over there.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: You almost have to wonder if he like met someone
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: or he you know, you could he could technically have
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: had like some sort of double life, right.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: He could have. But there's still things that aren't that
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: aren't adding up. Why is his car missing?
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Why was he killed? Why did he like that? Explained?
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Lying and seeing with a stranger at a hotel. That
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: explains that, but it doesn't explain why he's dead, doesn't
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: explain how he got there, doesn't explain why his car
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: was never recovered or found.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because if he's safe, he did commit suicide, Like,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know, that doesn't really totally make sense to me.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: But why would he go and do it in the barn? Really? Right?
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Exactly? Why would he sneak all the way to the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: barn to that spot?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Wow, that is so tough. I could not imagine this
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: for the family, just to have this like weighing on
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: you and having no idea.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if he was to go say I'm
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: going to commit suicide in the barn, why the fuck
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: did he take public transportation, travel by foot, then stay
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: with a stranger probably if we're going with the lover theory,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the affair theory, why would he stay with that stranger
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: like the night before going back to his family's barn
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and killing himself. None of that adds up? Why? Because
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: if that's the case, he probably would have had the
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: affair at home because he's probably got that established relationship
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: in the area, So he probably would have had that
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: affair there, been done with that affair, driven home to
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the location, then hung himself. That's most likely what the
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: chain of events would have been in that situation. The
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: public transportation makes no sense otherwise, well, it doesn't.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: A way, because he didn't want them to know. He
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: could maybe not have wanted them to know he was there,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: so like hit his vehicle somewhere right, like he didn't
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: want to maybe be found or something. Well, I guess
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: if he didn't want to be found, there would be
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: other places.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: To Yeah, if he didn't want to be found, he
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten loft.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, huh, Okay, jeez, that's a tough one.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I wholeheartedly believe that there was not an affair going on.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: If there is an affair going on, has absolutely nothing
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: to do with this story, because well potentially maybe maybe, okay,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: maybe if he did commit suicide, maybe there is an
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: affair going on. But I do not believe the hotel
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: has anything to do with an affair because I think
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the affair would be an established area already. He would
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: have invited a person to be at his place, in
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: him at their place. Why the fuck would they be
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: at a hotel in a whole other different country.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Do you think he got murdered, Yes, yeah.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I do. I believe he got murdered for one reason
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: or another and his body was placed there. I believe
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: he got I don't know why he lied that he
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: was on his way home. I believe he was going
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: to go home. He fully intended on it, but he
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: had some other business along the way. And that business,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: whatever it was personal, maybe it was work related, and
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: maybe it was nefarious. I don't know, but whatever that
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: business was went sour mm hm hmm.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And that he was placed in the loft, yes, yeah, dang, dang.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: There's probably like a shit to enough theories and shit
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: out there, right, or maybe not even that many, because.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: There isn't that many the theories are I mean, yeah,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: just people spaghettiing and throwing stuff at a wall and
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: seeing what they can just come up with, because there's
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: no no evidence to point anything any which way. It's
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: he was found there, did he hang himself, or did
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: someone put him there? That's about all you can really
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: speculate and it's a very fresh case still, Like this
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: was only twenty eighteen, so that's six years ago.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and honestly just to just be closed, right,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: like is how do they know for sure? But I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: mean that's like the easy root, right.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I do think his car is going to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: be found one day. I do. I think his car
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: was dumped in a lake or river or something around there.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I haven't looked geographically to see what sort of bodies
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: of water there are or where they could dump it,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: but I do think his car will be found.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah, that would really open this up. I well,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: not necessarily, I mean it would It wouldn't make sense
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: that it would be suicide. Then I don't know. Gosh,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I met a loss of words here.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But here's another piece of information I want to I
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: want to highlight here his keys not being found. If
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: he did drive to the train station or wherever in
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: park his cars, his keys would have been on him, right,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: but they were not found on him. If he left
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: his car at home, his keys would have been at home,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: but they were not found at home. So where the
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: fuck is his car and where the fucker is key?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Someone took his keys and took his car.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: But I mean there's a chance that it could just
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: never be found though too. That's very much so.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: That there is. But I believe his car will be found.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Well, we can hope, we can only hope really that
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: more information comes out about this.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Yeap fingers crossed. Well that was the case. Hopefully you
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: guys are have some sort of straight mind and what
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: you think happened, because it's a whole mess of what the.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Fuck rabbit hole? You could go down a real rabbit hole.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I think, oh you can, you really can. Yeah, But
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: it's unfortunate there's not a whole lot of information on
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: this because the authority is just not really caring or
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: investigating much. It's kind of dead ends where you go,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: which is so unfortunate.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and congratulations to you for you didn't lose your
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: mouse at all, Like you didn't have any trouble finding
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: your mouse.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I use the path here because I did lose it.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this is like a super side note. But
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Ben got a new mouse for like his computer, and
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: it's Camo, and so for a whole fucking week that
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: he's had this, I've had to endure him, you know,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I can't buy my mouse. Where's my mouse? You see
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: my mouse? Yeah? I really regret him buying this new mouse.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: It makes for the best jokes, does Yeah, because I'll
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: like accidentally set stuff down on it, like, oh, I
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: didn't see it there because it's camouflaged, right, it makes sense.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Oh anyway, good job, thank you.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: You lead us out today. You got this?
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Why do we what do you mean?
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Always? I never force this on you.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Such a good job, though, and it's your job, you
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: got it.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I believe in you. I don't even know you can
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I actually don't. That is probably in the six percent
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: of the time. I don't really listen.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm putting you on the spot. Lead us out.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Anyway, this has been recorded. We have
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: a YouTube that you can go and watch our reactions
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: and see Ben's fucking mouse. We also have a wicked
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: life YouTube. We have Patreon, We have Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: It's not called Twitter, it's called x or.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Actually we are never on.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: X Yeah, I just pretend we don't have that. So
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: we have Instagram and Facebook and yeah, this has been great. Yeah,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Oh leave us a review. We love reviews. Five stars.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Ben says, if you want, but I say five stars.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: And anyway, thanks for being here.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. That wasn't so bad, was it. No,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you did good, Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. All the
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: links are down below.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, do your thing, okay until next time.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Until next time, We hopefully we'll see you guys on
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: every other Friday soon but not this Friday, but next Friday.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: You know, we talked about it. See you next Tuesday,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: next Tuesday, and next Friday, and then Tuesday, and then
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Tuesday Friday, and then Tuesday and Tuesday Friday until two
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: hundred episode and then consecutive.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: And then it'll be less confusing, and then.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: It'll be less confusing. But for now, every other and
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: until then, stay wicked.