Latest / Libro Abierto Interviews ENGLISH / I died for minutes and came back to tell the story. Diego Díaz Mercado

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I died for minutes and came back to tell the story. Diego Díaz Mercado · Libro Abierto Interviews ENGLISH

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We shouted against Diaz Ordaz. Gorilla was probably the mildest
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: thing we called him.
• 0:05
  Speaker 3: Repressor. Authoritarian. Criminal. Murderer.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: The 1968 movement definitely marked me.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: All of this was already brewing before October. Long before October.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Before the massacre of October 2nd. That night, I cried
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: a lot. Even now, tears still come to my eyes
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: because there was so much pain. We were left in shock,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: not knowing what to do. We were very idealistic. Very,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: very idealistic. We truly believed we could build a better country.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: We truly believed that communism or socialism would save us
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: from the PRI dictatorship we were living under. Back then,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: whatever the president wanted was what happened. My name is
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Mario Diaz Mercado. I'm an actor and a voiceover artist,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and I've been doing both for many years. I recently
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: celebrated exactly 50 years since I began working in voiceover.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I started acting even earlier. I think I've been acting
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: for about 55 years.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Mario, you participated in the 1968 student movement. So, if
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: my math is right, by October of 1968 you were
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: almost 19 years old, correct?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Well, the movement went through October and September, but it
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: had actually been going on since July 26th. I was
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: 18 years old at the time.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Tell us, Mario, before the student movement began, what was
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: your school life like? What was your social life like?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And what was your family life like before all of
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: this started?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I always came from what you could call a dysfunctional family.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: My parents had divorced when I was five years old,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and I didn't even know it. I would see my
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: father leave, and then suddenly I would see my parents
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: together again. Because our family was so dysfunctional, my grandparents
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: ended up dividing the grandchildren among themselves. By that I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: mean that some of us would live with one grandmother,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: others would stay with another, and sometimes we would switch.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I spent much more time with my paternal grandmother. And
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's important to say that she was a
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: woman who had absolutely no obligation to take care of us.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: But she did. She didn't just take care of me.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: She took care of all of her grandchildren, including my cousins,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: whom I spent a large part of my puberty and
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: adolescence living with, sharing things with, and growing up alongside.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Sometimes my siblings lived there with me. Other times they
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: lived somewhere else, with my mother or with my father.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So yes, in that sense, it was a very dysfunctional family.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: But what was my life like at school? At school, honestly,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I was very happy. School became a refuge for many things.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And that was where I discovered something that I think
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I already had inside me. My calling to become an actor.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: We started a theater group there. And even today, many
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of us still see each other, talk to one another,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: have group chats, and stay in touch. At preparatory of four,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: during the afternoon shift, I became, let's say, one of
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the more recognizable people because I performed in plays and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: people would see me on stage. At the same time,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I had some left-wing political interests, although the truth is
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: that I had absolutely no idea what the left really meant.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: But then this slate, and guess what color it was?
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Red. Of course it was red.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: They nominated me to become president of the student council
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: in 1968. By then, the movement was already beginning to
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: take shape. The strike committee was already forming. We didn't
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: necessarily fey. L incredibly oppressed because, in a way, we
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: saw many of those things as normal. There were things
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you were allowed to do and things you simply weren't
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: allowed to do. We listened a lot to songs by
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Oscar Chavez, for example. Songs like Roman Castillo, La Marihuana,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and also Los Idges de Mi Coreta by Atahualpa Yupanqui.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: There were classmates who would take out a guitar and
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: new songs by Violeta Parra, including Volver a Los Seventeen.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: And to us it was funny. What do you mean?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Go back to being seventeen. I'm already seventeen.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Or eighteen.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: There were things we didn't understand. Some students knew the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: stories of Violeta Parra or Atahualpa Yupanqui. Others of us
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: were almost completely ignorant about all of that. But we
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: loved those songs. And when I say that I was
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: very happy at school, it was because I didn't feel
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: as oppressed there. We were like a group of rebellious classmates.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Of course we felt there was oppression. We knew there
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: were limitations. I always came from what you could call
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a dysfunctional family. My parents had divorced when I was
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: five years old. and I didn't even know it. I
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: would see my father leave, and then suddenly I would
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: see my parents together again. Because our family was so dysfunctional,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: my grandparents ended up dividing the grandchildren among themselves. By
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: that I mean that some of us would live with
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: one grandmother, others would stay with another, and sometimes we
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: would switch. I spent much more time with my paternal grandmother.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important to say that she was
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: a woman who had absolutely no obligation to take care
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: of us.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: But she did. She didn't just take care of me.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: She took care of all of her grandchildren, including my cousins,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: whom I spent a large part of my puberty and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: adolescence living with, sharing things with, and growing up alongside.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Sometimes my siblings lived there with me. Other times they
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: lived somewhere else, with my mother or with my father.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: So yes, in that sense, it was a very dysfunctional family.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: But what was my life like at school? At school, honestly,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I was very happy. School became a refuge for many things.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And that was where I discovered something that I think
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I already had inside me. My calling to become an actor.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: We started a theater group there. And even today, many
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of us still see each other, talk to one another,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: have group chats, and stay in touch. At preparatory of four,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: during the afternoon shift, I became, let's say, one of
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the more recognizable people because I performed in plays and
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: people would see me on stage. At the same time,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I had some left-wing political interests, although the truth is
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: that I had absolutely no idea what the left really meant.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: But then this slate, and guess what color it was?
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Red. Of course it was red.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: They nominated me to become president of the student council
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: in 1968. By then, the movement was already beginning to
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: take shape. The strike committee was already forming. We didn't
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: necessarily fey. L incredibly oppressed because, in a way, we
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: saw many of those things as normal. There were things
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: you were allowed to do and things you simply weren't
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: allowed to do. We listened a lot to songs by
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Oscar Chavez, for example. Songs like Roman Castillo, La Marihuana,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and also Los Idges de Mi Coreta by Atahualpa Yupanqui.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: There were classmates who would take out a guitar and
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: new songs by Violeta Parra, including Volver a Los Seventeen.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: And to us it was funny. What do you mean?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Go back to being seventeen. I'm already seventeen.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Or eighteen.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: There were things we didn't understand. Some students knew the
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: stories of Violetta Parra or Attawalpa Upanki. Others of us
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: were almost completely ignorant about all of that. But we
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: loved those songs. And when I say that I was
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: very happy at school, it was because I didn't feel
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: as oppressed there. We were like a group of rebellious classmates.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Of course we felt there was oppression. We knew there
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: were limitations.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Could we say that politics was simply in the air
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: in the environment you were part of? Was political discussion everywhere?
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Were you young people constantly talking about politics? What was
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that atmosphere like?
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I had a friend named Juan Green, Juan Alberto Green.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: He was 10 years older than me, but he attended
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: high school in the same group I did. We became
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: very close friends. For me, he was almost like a
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: father figure. He helped me a lot by guiding me
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: through many things. In 1968, We formed a group specifically
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to become more politically aware. We would meet to talk,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: exchange ideas, organize ourselves, figure out what we were going
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: to do, decide how we were going to distribute flyers,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and things like that. And there was something we didn't
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: know at the time. I only found out years later.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: There was one man whom we basically knew only by
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: his name. I think his first name was Alfredo, although
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not completely sure. But his last name was Lopez.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: There was another man whose last name was Rosas. Those
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: two were among the people who were much more politically educated.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: You could tell they had read extensively about politics. They
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: were the ones who, in a way, indoctrinated us politically.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: So we formed this group. That was also the group
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: that later nominated me as a candidate for president of
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: the student council during the afternoon shift at Preparatoria IV,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: precisely in 1968. We used to meet in a little restaurant.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: There were quite a few of us. On average, maybe 15.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Sometimes around 10. We were all from Preparatoria IV. But
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: those two men were infiltrators. I realized that many years later. Many,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: many years later.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Infiltrators from where?
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: From the government.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Most likely from the Ministry of the Interior, or perhaps
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: from some police or intelligence institution. Because this man, Alfredo Lopez, again,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not certain about his first name, but I am
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: sure about his last name. I later saw him working
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: as an organizer and leader in one of the pro-government
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: labor organizations. He was actually an official within that union.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Don't ask me exactly which union, because I don't remember.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: It had something to do with agricultural workers. I don't
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: know whether it was the croc or another workers and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: peasants organization.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: But he was there.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And that was when I realized. This guy was connected
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to the ministry of the interior. As for roses, I
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: can't prove anything. But when I think about it now,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: and it isn't only speculation, there were certain signs.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I ask myself.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: How was this guy so young and yet so politically
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: indoctrinated and educated? And besides, why wasn't he the candidate
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: for president of the student council?
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Why me?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I was very ignorant when it came to politics. There
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: are still many things I don't know, of course, but
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: back then I was especially ignorant. So I believe they
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: may have wanted to put me there because they thought
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: they could manipulate me and use me to accomplish whatever
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: they wanted within the student council. Anyway, I belonged to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the theater group at the school, and that made me
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: very happy. I also loved my political activity. I really
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Those two things complemented each other in my life.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: But at that point, the movement hadn't fully begun. It
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was still cooking, so to speak. There had already been
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: repression following the confrontation involving Vocational School No. 5 and
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Isaac Acotarina High School. That repression marked the beginning of
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the student protests. Then it connected with the July 26th demonstration.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: where different groups confronted each other, some of them allegedly
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: mobilized by the government and others genuinely students. That was
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: when T-Movement truly began. At that time, we were preparing
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: my entire campaign at the home of one of my
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: classmates who lived near the school. We were preparing the posters. Mario,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: vote for Mario Diaz Mercado and the red slate. It
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: couldn't have been any other color. We were preparing all
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of that when suddenly we saw a report on television.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: The report was delivered by Ignacio Martinez Carpentero on the
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Excelsior news program. They announced that a bazooka had just
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: been fired at the door of Preparatoria 1, which was
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: also Preparatoria 3. In the morning it operated as number 1,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: and in the afternoon as number 3. The door had
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: been blown down with a bazooka. Even today, it has
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: never been completely clear how many people might have been
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: wounded or killed there. Obviously, students were inside when the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: shot was fired. I cannot tell you how many were
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: wounded or how many may have died. I cannot state
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: that with certainty. But from that moment on, the movement
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: changed completely. And we had to make a decision right then.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: We burned, tore up, and destroyed all of the political
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: propaganda for my student council campaign. The repression against the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: students from Vocational School No. 5 and Isaac Acotarina High School,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: who had originally fought among themselves, escalated when the riot
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: police intervened and entered the schools. That was what unleashed
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the outrage among students. We began demanding the resignation of
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Cueto and Mendiolia, the two senior police officials of that period.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: There was even a joke back then, because people would write,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Moera Cueto y Mendiolia, on the walls, death to Cueto
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: and Mendiolia. People joked that maybe Cueto's full last name
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: was actually Moera Cueto. But that confrontation between the vocational
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: school and Isaac Acotarina High School was what pushed the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: movement to another level.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: How angry did all of this make you?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: We were incredibly outraged. It felt as though the police
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: had attacked our own brothers. It felt as though they
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: had personally repressed every single one of us. We felt
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: it in our own flesh. And we absolutely hated the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: riot police, the Granaderos. They were the most repressive force,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and they were the ones people feared the most. When
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the Granaderos arrived, they didn't care who you were. They
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: hit everyone. One of my classmates from high school was
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: named Manuel Diaz. I don't remember his other last name.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: He appears in a famous photograph trying to protect himself
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: from a soldier who was about to hit him with
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the butt of a rifle. The soldier did hit him.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: And Manuel wasn't involved in anything. He had simply gone
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: there to pick something up. I don't know whether it
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: was something personal or something from school. But he was
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: attacked there. Then there were the Poros. The Poros were
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: violent groups that were manipulated by certain authorities, not all
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: of them, but certain university authorities, as a way of
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: confronting those of us who rebelled. They hit one of
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: our classmates in the head with a baseball bat. He
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: obviously ended up in the hospital. Then some of our classmates,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I wasn't one of them, but other students went, tried
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to file a police report. And when they arrived, they
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: discovered that the man who had attacked him had already
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: filed a report first, reversing the entire story. That was
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: a very typical Poro strategy. They would protect themselves by
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: accusing the victim first. That happened a lot back then.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I was attacked by Poros myself. I was on a
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: bus with my cousins Joaquin and Marco Antonio. One of
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: these guys simply got onto the bus, saw me, punched me,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: and gave me a black eye.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: I knew him.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I knew exactly who he was. He later became an
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: official at UNAM. Another time, I was crossing the pedestrian
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: bridge over Periferico. We had to cross that bridge when
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: coming from Preparatoria 4 toward the Condesa neighborhood. I'm not
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: completely sure whether it was that same guy or one
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of the people who used to hang around with him
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: because that memory is a little blurry.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: But I was alone.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: It was nighttime, maybe 9 or 10 at night. We
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: normally got out around 10. That particular night, I was
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: crossing the bridge alone. And when I reached the middle
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of it, I saw several poros coming toward me. Needless
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to say, I was terrified. Fortunately, at that exact moment,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: another group of students came up behind me. I didn't
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: know them, but I backed up and joined them as
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: if I had been walking with them the entire time.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I am convinced those poros were coming after me. That
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: was one of the biggest scares I experienced during that period.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I distributed a lot of flyers back then. I used
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: to hand them out around the market near Takubeya. I
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: think it was Becerra Market, although I don't remember everything perfectly.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: My cousins became my accomplices in a way. When we
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: went back to my grandmother's house, I obviously couldn't walk
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: in carrying all the political propaganda I had been distributing
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: in markets, buses, and on the streets. So I would
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: ask my cousins to hide the flyers underneath their clothes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: That way, I could arrive home empty-handed, carrying nothing except
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: my school books. I was one of the activists of
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: that period. And because I had a powerful voice, they
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: would put me in charge of shouting our slogans in
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the market against the government. I don't even remember everything
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: we used to shout anymore. But we handed out flyers.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: We spread propaganda. And then the market vendors would come
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: up to us and say things like, the administrator of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: this market does this to us. Why won't he let
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: us do this? People began to join us. There was
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of solidarity with our movement. People on the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: street generally liked us. And you could see that reflected
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: in the demonstrations that took place along Avenida Juarez, in Cigentes,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and during the March of Silence. I participated in some
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: of those marches. I didn't participate in all of them.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: That whole turbulent atmosphere forced us to take a position.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: It radicalized us. But not all of us were politically
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: conscious or prepared. At least at Preparatoria IV, things were confusing.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: At the School of Economics, however, it was different. Those
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: students really knew political terminology. They understood political procedures and
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: how everything worked. I didn't understand any of that. I
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: simply joined because I believed in it with my heart.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I expressed what I believed was right.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Was I innocent? Was I naive? Was I simply stupid?
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I think I was probably a combination of all three.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I have to admit it. That's how I was.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: On the flyers you distributed, what kind of propaganda was
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: printed or drawn? And also, who told you, go to
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: this market and say this? How did that work?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: No one told us where to go. We went wherever
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: we felt like going in the moment, wherever we thought
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: there would be people willing to listen to us. Suddenly
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: somebody would say, let's go to Becerra market.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Let's go to Becerra Market. Then, let's go to Parque
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Lira and see who we find there. Sure, let's go
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to the park. Sometimes we would go to another area
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: near Los Pinos, which was the presidential residence. We would
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: go there almost just to be provocative and distribute flyers
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: close to Los Pinos. The propaganda mainly focused on Cueto
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and Mendiolia. They were portrayed as guerrillas in the flyers.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: And Diaz Ordaz. Well, the truth is that his physical
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: appearance didn't exactly do him any favors. Honestly, I think
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: some of the caricatures actually made him look better. They
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: drew him less ugly than he really was. It was
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: a very unpleasant time for all students. And Diaz Ordaz
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: repressed us far more than was necessary because he believed
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: there was an international communist conspiracy against Mexico aimed at
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: sabotaging the Olympic Games. The truth is, there was no
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: such thing. Were there left-wing groups? Of course there were.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: But the political left was practically outlawed. During that period,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: it wasn't allowed to obtain official political registration. The parties
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: that did have registration included the PAN and the PARM,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the authentic party of the Mexican Revolution. The PARM had
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: been created during the period of Ruiz Cortin's and remained active.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: It had originally included former military men and later civilians joined.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: The PAN, on the other hand, included important intellectuals who
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: had formed a party intended to provide genuine opposition to
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the PRI. But even that opposition was extremely limited. They
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: had almost no opportunity whatsoever to obtain meaningful political representation,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: not even congressional seats, in many cases.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: No.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: The PRI ruled. And whatever the president wanted was what happened.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: So how did the movement keep becoming more intense? How
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: did the demonstrations begin growing and becoming increasingly forceful?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Through the marches. Mostly through the marches. Information was organized
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and spread through what I would call messengers. They came
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: from the university, especially from the School of Economics, the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: School of Philosophy, Accounting, and the different schools and faculties.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Word would spread everywhere. Then those of us who participated
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: in committees at the preparatorias and other schools would receive
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the information and spread it further. By the way, at
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that time I was also doing my military service. I
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: was assigned to Preparatoria 8 for that. Military personnel would
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: go there to train us. Then, in September, the military
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: service was suddenly suspended. They told us, go home. There
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: will be no more military service. And we asked, what
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: happens now? They said, we'll tell you later. We'll send
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you information. But for now, go home. That tells you
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: that all of this was already being prepared before October.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Long before October.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: So we went home.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: We weren't really attending preparatoria for anymore either, because soldiers
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: had surrounded the school. There were soldiers stationed outside. Whether
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: or not they actually entered the building, I can't say.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I don't personally know. But we would go near the school.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you would walk right past the soldiers. They would
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: stand there completely still, staring straight ahead. And we would
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: look at them with pure hatred. I don't remember shouting
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: at them or saying anything. Fear was stronger than anything else.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: If we had shouted something, there could easily have been
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: plainclothes agents nearby who might have grabbed us or at
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: least beaten us. I don't know for certain, of course.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: But we didn't demonstrate in front of them. What hurt
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: us was seeing our universities, colleges, schools, and faculties occupied.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: The military also entered the university. Several people connected to
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the university were detained. And then there was Rector Javier
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Barros Sierra, who was one of the most beloved figures AM,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: on the student community, and who became an important public
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: defender of the university.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Mario, tell me what you felt when you participated in
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: the marches. I've been to demonstrations from my own generation,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and being inside a march can be an incredibly intense experience.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: They were different.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Those marches were very different from the demonstrations you see today.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Those marches were made up fundamentally, primarily, almost entirely, of
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: young people. We shouted against Diaz Ordaz. Like I said,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Gorilla was probably the mildest thing we called him.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Repressor. Authoritarian. Criminal. Murderer.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: There were banners everywhere expressing those things. I participated in
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: only a few demonstrations.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Not many.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you participate in many of them?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Because my grandmother called my father and told him, Mario
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: is involved in the movement. You need to do something.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: My father lived in Veracruz, specifically in the port of Alvarado.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So he sent someone to get me and take me
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: to Veracruz. This happened before October. It was in September
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: of 1968. Honestly, I had a very difficult time while
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I was there. Even though I didn't have any money,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know how I managed it, but I always
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: found a way to get the magazine.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Poor Kay.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: That magazine was more aligned, let's say, with the political
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: left of the time. It published information about what was happening.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And I was in Veracruz when the October 2nd massacre happened.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: That night, I cried a lot.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Even now. Forgive me.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: But tears still come to my eyes. Because it was
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: so painful. So much pain. Thinking about all those fellow students.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: As far as I know, none of the people I
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: personally knew were among those killed. At least I don't
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: think so. I was never told that somebody I knew
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: directly had died there. But it hurt me enormously. The
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: news came out that same day. There were televisions in
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: public places in Veracruz, and that evening the reports began appearing.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: The man my father had sent to get me later
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: returned to Mexico City. He told me afterward that he
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: actually heard the gunfire from Tlatelolco. But I found out
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: that same day. That night, October 2nd, I cried. Yes,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: the news spread that very same day, and I was
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: deeply involved in everything that was happening emotionally and politically.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It is very possible that, if I had still been
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in Mexico City, I would have been there on October 2nd.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And perhaps that would have been my final participation in
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the 1968 movement.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: In the news, of course, they said that some provocateur
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: had fired at the army. They said an army lieutenant
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: had been wounded. I think his last name was Toledo,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: although I don't remember exactly. And that supposedly gave the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: military a reason to react. By now, of course, every
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: one knows the stories surrounding the flares. The helicopter, and
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the armed provocateurs positioned in the Chihuahua building who allegedly
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: fired and created the situation that caused the soldiers to respond.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: There are also testimonies saying that some soldiers actually tried
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to protect students. They told them, Get down.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Lie on the ground.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Stay over here. Don't go outside. There was tremendous confusion.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Did you contact anyone afterward? Did anyone tell you what
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: had really happened? Did you have friends who were there
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: that day and survived?
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Yes. Many. Many of them.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And afterward, there were countless stories. Some stories were invented.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Others were real. And some of the real stories probably
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: still fell short of describing what actually happened.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: You were in Veracruz on October 2. When did you
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: return to Mexico City, and what was it like going
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: back to school?
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact date when we returned. But
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I think it was sometime in November. The Olympic Games
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: had already ended. We were in shock. We didn't know
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: what to do. We didn't know where to go from there.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I returned to Mexico City and thought, what do we
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: do now? There was nothing we could do. They silenced us.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: They shut us up.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: They massacred us. The pain I felt over October 2nd
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: was so great that I began writing a series of poems.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: At least I called them poems. And with those poems,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: we created what we called a choral poetry recital. Originally,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: because that expression was very fashionable at the time, we
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: called it a protest poetry recital. I directed the recital.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I remember Berenice Oliva participated.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: She sang.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Mario Derigamo was there. Tito Vasconcelos. Virginia Souza. Carmen Souza.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And another person whom I'm sure many people will recognize.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: She eventually stopped using her father's last name and began
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: using her mother's. Her name is Rosa Gloria. Back then,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: she was Rosa Gloria Vasquez. Later, she became Rosa Gloria
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Chagoyan and went on to work professionally, especially in film.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: She was my girlfriend at the time. We performed the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: recital in several theaters. We performed at the theater at
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Preparatoria IV. We also performed at the theater in the
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Cuauhtémoc unit of the Mexican Social Security Institute. And the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: entire performance contained this feeling of rejection toward what we
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: saw as a guerrilla government, meaning a repressive, authoritarian, criminal, disastrous,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: repulsive government. It was our way of channeling our rejection,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: our anger, our absolute repudiation of what we considered the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: criminal government of Diaz Ordaz.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Do you feel that your life was defined by that movement?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Do you feel that your way of thinking or your
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: personality was shaped by who you were during that period?
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely. Yes. Definitely. Without question. Absolutely.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Both in terms of what I envisioned for my professional
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: future and in terms of my political convictions.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: In those two areas, the 1968 movement definitely marked me. Completely.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: And thanks to it. Although perhaps some people would say
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say thanks to it. But thanks to it,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I became the person I am today.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Do you believe the movement actually produced any change?
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Yes. Absolutely.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Without question. Especially thanks to Dr. Barros Sierra, the university
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: became stronger. Its autonomy and sovereignty became stronger. Even though
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the army had occupied it, Even though military forces had
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: taken university facilities, Dr. Barros Sierra stood up to the government.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: He demanded that the military forces withdraw. He directly confronted
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the government of Diaz Ordaz. We were very idealistic. Very,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: very idealistic. We truly believed we could build a better country.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: We truly believed communism or socialism could save us from
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: what we saw as the PRI dictatorship we were living under.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: We genuinely believed that. And that was why we fought.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: And I believe 1968 did mark the beginning of what
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: came later with the political reform led by Jesus Reyes
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Heroles during the Lopez-Pertillo administration. That reform began opening the
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: political system to more parties. The Communist Party was granted
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: legal registration. Later came the Socialist Workers' Party. Then the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Mexican Socialist Party. Eventually, many more political parties were able
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: to participate. So yes, I believe 1968 was one of
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the precedents for everything that came afterward.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Looking back now, in retrospect, how do you feel about
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: having been part of that movement?
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: If my body and my health allowed me to, I
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: would do many of the things I did back then again.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. I definitely would. But not all of them.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And today I would do those things with a very
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: different perspective. The truth is that I have never abandoned
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: my idealistic nature. I belonged to the PRD during its
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: early years. I resigned when I began seeing that it
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: was turning into nothing more than competing internal factions. I
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: no longer saw people with what I considered an honest, clear, committed,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and consistent left-wing position. Pablo Gomez, for example. In my opinion,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Pablo Gomez is one of those figures who betrayed the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: political left despite having been imprisoned in connection with the
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: 1968 movement. And there are several others like him. Today,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: some of them are extremely close to people who originally
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: belonged to the PRI and later abandoned that party and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: joined another political party, the one currently in government. So
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: many people who once described themselves as left-wing have, in
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: my opinion, been exposed by history. History has shown us
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: that either they were not truly left-wing, or that their
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: left-wing identity was based on convenience and political opportunism. That
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: is why I tell you there are many things I
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: did back then that I would not do today, but
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I still firmly believe that, sooner or later, there must
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: be a genuine left. A true left. A fair left.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: A libertarian left. A left without authoritarianism. Without dictatorships. Without
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: dictatorial impositions. I still believe in that kind of left.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: But it is no longer the same left I believed
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: in during the 1960s. Today, I've become more sympathetic to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: social democracy. Social democracy is what you see in countries
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Switzerland. Even Switzerland, despite
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: being a deeply capitalist country, has very strong measures in
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: place to protect its citizens. Because no one will ever
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: convince me that the state does not have one fundamental responsibility.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: That should take priority above everything else. Ensuring the well-being
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of its citizens and of society. What I've learned over
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the years is that in Mexico, when you look at
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the dominant political positions, there really is no genuine left.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: There is no left. That is something I've learned through
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: all these years. Do not idealize the left. Being left-wing
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: does not mean you have to applaud the dictators of
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Latin America or dictators anywhere else in the world. There
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: are many things I would no longer do. There are
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: many things I would not repeat. But there are other
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: things I am still absolutely convinced must be defended. One
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: of them is the constitution. especially the parts of the
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Constitution that protect citizens and society. Unfortunately, the original spirit
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: of several constitutional articles has been altered. Articles 27 and 28,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: for example. And that is part of the reason the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: situation surrounding oil is what it is today. The same
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: can be said about Article 130, the federal labor law,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and other areas. Their original meaning has been altered or distorted.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I believe we need a new constitution inspired by the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: original spirit behind those protections. The goal should be social
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: well-being and the protection of citizens in matters of justice, employment,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the economy, healthcare, and education. I believe those things are fundamental.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: They are incredibly important if a society wants to move forward.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And whenever budget cuts happen, one of the first things
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: governments cut is funding for culture. Without culture, there is
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: no society. Culture costs money. It costs a lot of money, yes,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: but not having culture costs much more.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: What does it feel like to have been part of
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: a generation that made history?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: The truth is, I feel that we didn't accomplish what
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: we wanted to accomplish. We didn't leave a better world
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: for our children. Unfortunately, we didn't. I don't know whether
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I'm proud simply because I belonged, or still belong, to
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that generation.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: But I do believe that if we failed future generations,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: it wasn't because of malice. And it wasn't because we
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: lacked ideals. It was because corruption won. In every possible sense.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And I don't mean only financial corruption. I mean political corruption.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Corruption in education. Corruption in healthcare. Corruption prevailed over the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: ideals of building a society that was more just, more free,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: more solid, and more advanced. In Mexico, the democracy we
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: aspired to, the democracy we thought we had finally achieved,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: collapsed before us. Democracy is a value. It isn't perfect.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Churchill said that democracy is not perfect, but it is
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the best system we have been able to give ourselves.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: In Mexico, we still have not achieved true democracy. And
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: that was what we wanted. We wanted democracy. I don't
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: think it would be right for us to glorify ourselves
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: because of the few things we may have accomplished. But
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: as my beloved friend Maria Victoria Lamas, who has since
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: passed away, used to say, it wasn't for lack of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: trying on my part. And I think that is what
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: our generation can say. It wasn't for lack of trying
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: on our part. My name is Mario Diaz Mercado. I
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: belong to a generation of idealists who wanted to make
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Mexico a better country. I am proud to have participated
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: in the 1968 movement. But I no longer idealize it.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: We could have done more. Without question, we did what
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: we believed was our responsibility at that moment.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: We made mistakes. Without question.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't at Tlatelolco on October 2nd because, apparently,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It simply wasn't my time to die.