Latest / The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast / Herbert NFL MVP Voter Sam Monson Talks Chargers with TDU!

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Herbert NFL MVP Voter Sam Monson Talks Chargers with TDU! · The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast

• 0:02
  Who's got it better than that? No way! Robert
• 0:06
  is being chased, thrown on the lawn, and it is
• 0:09
  caught! Touchdown! Keenan Allen! What a great...
• 0:13
  My goal is not to break. My goal is to make you
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  harder to break. Number six! Number six! Touchdown!
• 0:23
  Nineteen -yard touchdown! Nineteen -yard touchdown!
• 0:26
  Off to the eight -yard run by Derwin Jean! Susses
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  me, takes a shot downfield, has Knighton! Pond!
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  Touchdown! What is going on everybody? Welcome
• 0:48
  to the Thunderdown Under Charges football podcast,
• 0:50
  Andy and Alistair today. Sadly, no Jack, however.
• 0:54
  We do have a more than apt fill in today with
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  a bachelor of history in politics of his own.
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  He's the cohost on Check the Mic, formerly of
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  the PFF NFL podcast and the sole Justin Herbert
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  MVP voter from season 2025. Great pleasure. We
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  welcome friend of the show, Sam Monson. How are
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  you going? I'm doing good. How about you guys?
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  Doing great. It's that exciting time right at
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  the precipice of the pre -season into real football.
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  As Al said on the show last week, death taxes
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  and the Chargers losing an offensive lineman
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  in a freak pre -season injury. So, you know,
• 1:31
  just going through the standard emotions of being
• 1:33
  a Chargers fans. Yeah, the standard sort of cycle
• 1:37
  of being, everyone being excited for the Chargers,
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  the off season of hope, and then when does it
• 1:41
  get dashed and taken away? And, you know, maybe
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  it happened earlier this year with the Adish
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  going down. Yeah, well, no doubt we'll get into
• 1:49
  that. What's your workload like at the minute?
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  I know you guys have smashed out all your team
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  previews for, for the upcoming season. So what
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  are you, what are you and Steve up to at the
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  moment? Yeah, it's a weird, um, it's a weird
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  time, uh, at the moment because of this extra
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  long kind of gap. Like it's a, it's a weird NFL
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  calendar this year because of just the way everything's
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  fallen. So there's this giant gap now between
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  the last preseason games this weekend. We'll
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  cover those on Monday, just kind of bits and
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  pieces. What stood out, you know, what we noticed.
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  And week three of preseason, there's not necessarily
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  a ton of that. But then we've actually got a
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  fair amount of time to kill before the actual
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  season starts. We're not straight into it. There's
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  another week of that. So we've got a full season
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  preview to fit in at some point, like our official
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  kind of picks for division winners, awards, all
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  those kinds of things. But other than that, we've
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  still got some work to do. Yeah, nice. Nice.
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  Yeah, it's sort of getting that way with us as
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  well. love doing the last trope of all your predictions
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  and, uh, how wrong you end up feeling at the
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  end when it's all completely out of nowhere.
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  So no one ever reposits them. Anyway, you throw
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  out your playoff teams, NVPs, people aren't keeping
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  your receipts. Yeah, that's right. Or you just
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  amazed that you even said it in the first place.
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  Um, just before we sort of jump into talking
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  football, it's If you don't mind, it's been a
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  pretty fascinating story for you, kind of being
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  in Ireland and if I'm not wrong, sort of getting
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  on UK NFL blogs and then getting sort of picked
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  up that way and then you're analyzing games.
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  What has it sort of been like over the last 20
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  years or thereabouts? Yeah, it's definitely been
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  weird. You know, I get people kind of... message
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  me or hit me up on LinkedIn or, you know, stuff
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  like that. And they're like, you know, looking
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  for kind of advice for people to kind of get
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  into the industry or whatever. I'm like, I feel
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  bad because my my my pathway is useless. Like
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  I was lucky. And, you know, really, that's it's
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  kind of the case for any of the first sort of
• 3:57
  people that were in a PFF. We all just got lucky,
• 4:01
  struck gold at the right time, the right place.
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  Neil Hornsby kind of created the site concept,
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  the whole thing. And then he needed people to
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  come on and help him actually do data or do games,
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  actually get some information into the system.
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  And the place that he knew to go for people that
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  knew football, knew enough to do this kind of
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  thing was it started off as the official NFL
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  UK message board. And then that kind of became
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  a bit of a mess. And there was like a splinter
• 4:32
  group that formed and. What was Dean the kind
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  of the smarter and less? argumentative section
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  kind of went off over there and it was basically
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  most of those people that Neil was employing
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  sort of single -handedly out of his own pocket
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  to do these games to player participation who's
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  on the field where are they and the actual grading
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  and that group ended up kind of becoming like
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  the core team of PFF through the the sort of
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  the startup phase Um, and then eventually, you
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  know, once it grew, we, we expanded, hired some,
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  some more people on board, but it's not a repeatable
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  pathway. You know what I mean? Like we got, we
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  got blind ass lucky just because Neil knew us
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  and was setting this thing up. Um, it, I mean,
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  beyond like, Hey, if you can hit yourself up
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  to a startup, go for it. You might get lucky.
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  I got no, no more useful information to impart
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  to people. Yeah, that's, that's very fair. How
• 5:29
  certified. into it, did you kind of have the
• 5:31
  realization that you, it was kind of legit and
• 5:36
  totally life altering and like, you know, you
• 5:39
  could see that you would have to probably move
• 5:42
  over to the States. Yeah. It's kind of like,
• 5:45
  it was a little bit, um, incremental, like there
• 5:48
  was never any sort of one moment where it's like,
• 5:50
  wow, look what's happened. Uh, it was kind of
• 5:53
  bit by bit, although from pretty early on, I
• 5:55
  think we thought it could be something like we,
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  I remember. We were in Neil's front room way
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  back in like 2009, maybe, and we had this whole
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  plan sketched out. We're like, here are all the
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  places that would use this data. Teams could
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  use it. Agents could use it, like media. We had
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  this whole thing. We kind of nailed it. I mean,
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  we had no idea how to do any of it yet, but the
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  actual plan is remarkably close to where we ended
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  up being, even though it was just theoretical
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  and just kind of sketched out. And then various
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  people along the way were able to kind of help
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  out and little bits and pieces. You know, the
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  first team comes calling the first team signs
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  the client. There's a media section, you know,
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  all these sort of little road markings along
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  the way. And then I guess in terms of like big
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  seismic, you know, changes for things, Chris
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  buying the company, Chris Collins worth buying
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  the company is obviously a huge step along the
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  way. From that point on, PFF. was going to stop
• 6:56
  being a completely remote entity. You know, he
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  was going to sort of establish a home base in
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  Cincinnati and the core people were going to
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  try and move over at least a lot of them. And
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  then because most of my stuff was kind of media
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  consumer side of things, like mine was going
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  to be one of the positions that sort of needed
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  to be over in Cincinnati. So then it was like
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  trying to move over here, which took a little
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  bit of time. So yours is kind of the reverse
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  charges. You draw out the plan and it actually
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  follows through. It goes exactly how you drew
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  it up. Yeah, I guess. I mean, like I said, there
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  were some some things that would have been different,
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  I guess. But like broadly, you know, big picture,
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  take a step back and kind of look at it. I mean,
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  PFF became the kind of the preeminent analytics
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  entity in in the NFL in the sort of football
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  landscape. That would have been like the North
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  Star on that board, you know, way back in 2009
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  or whatever. And so, you know, didn't go exactly
• 7:51
  the way we would have planned it out. And, you
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  know, mistakes were made and other things, but
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  like in terms of like the broad picture was pretty
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  much right on. Yeah. Awesome. Um, and obviously
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  then it's sort of translated and now, you know,
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  into the podcasting realm. And now you're off
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  doing check the mic and, um, still, still working
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  with Steve. You can, you can tolerate him, uh,
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  enough to, to sit across the table and talk football.
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  Yeah one of the few people that i seem to be
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  able to tolerate for that period of time without
• 8:25
  souring on them enough yet since it's been remarkably
• 8:28
  successful movie. Between like all of the early
• 8:32
  people started all of the things that pff just
• 8:34
  because there were not many people around to
• 8:36
  do it so i like set up pff social media channels
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  initially me and steve i think were the first
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  two people set up a podcast or at least worse
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  were. Certainly part of the initial. pretty limited
• 8:49
  rotating cast. And we were certainly part of
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  it from the beginning. And that's the thing that
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  kind of that kept on going. We basically kind
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  of became our show more or less. And then we
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  ended up leaving to sort of do our show by ourselves.
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  We didn't own any of it when it was at PFF. It
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  was all owned by PFF. So we basically left, started
• 9:13
  over and tried to spool it up ourselves. Yeah,
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  awesome. How did you find that, uh, sort of building
• 9:20
  that up and then sort of starting again? Uh,
• 9:23
  yeah, it was like, it's, it's quite a broad space
• 9:27
  where even really big popular podcasts, they
• 9:30
  can have thousands of listeners and then overnight
• 9:33
  you hear, oh, NFL media has cut that show or
• 9:36
  this platform's cut that show. There's some,
• 9:38
  you know, danger inherent, no matter how popular
• 9:41
  you are. And it's a very sort of shifting landscape
• 9:44
  at the moment, right? Like everything is changing,
• 9:47
  the whole sort of system is shifting, platforms
• 9:50
  are changing, like where people consume podcasts
• 9:53
  is changing. So our show was always kind of two
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  pronged. It was a YouTube video show, but it
• 10:00
  was also an audio only, you know, RSS, wherever
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  you get your podcast type of thing. And that
• 10:06
  That was the side that had been more successful
• 10:09
  for the history of the show. But we also knew
• 10:13
  that was the side that was probably going to
• 10:14
  be hardest to rebuild if we had to start over.
• 10:17
  And then the YouTube channel was the other way
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  around. Like it was probably the smaller side
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  of it for us. And we felt better about being
• 10:23
  able to build that back up if we had to start
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  over again. So first of all, we had a whole thing
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  of. Not being able to jump until we found a kind
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  of guaranteed safety net somewhere So we needed
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  a company which ended up being the 33rd team
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  who was willing to kind of provide the guarantees
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  and saying yeah We'll take the gamble on it And
• 10:43
  let us jump in the first place and then we had
• 10:46
  this thing of well We're not gonna tell them
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  we're leaving until sort of the last minute because
• 10:50
  we wanted to do it When our numbers are gonna
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  peak right up against the season. So this kind
• 10:54
  of time But then we also wanted to take a swing
• 10:57
  at buying the feeds on the way out the door and
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  say, look, we're leaving. This is basically our
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  show. Your numbers are going to tank. The second
• 11:06
  we leave, you can, you know, spend a lot of money
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  and live that experience and figure out what
• 11:10
  it looks like, or we'll give you quite a large
• 11:14
  amount of money for the feeds and let, you know,
• 11:16
  we get everyone can win. Right. And I think we
• 11:19
  got kind of close to them saying yes to that.
• 11:23
  Um, before they, they talked to somebody else
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  who sold them a pipe dream and they went off
• 11:27
  and took a gamble at that and it, you know, nobody,
• 11:30
  nobody won. Okay. There you go. All right. Well,
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  let's, let's get into talking to symbol and it
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  wouldn't be a charges podcast talking to Sam
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  Monson, um, without a little bit of discussion
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  around the MVP vote for Justin Herbert. Um, sort
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  of how you don't, I'm sure you've thrashed it
• 11:48
  to death, but, uh, how was the sort of Coping
• 11:52
  with the backlash that came of, you know, the
• 11:55
  criticism around Drake may being robbed of an
• 11:57
  MVP career. Obviously this is for people who
• 12:01
  haven't kind of listened and heard you speak
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  on this, um, which I've always find very entertaining,
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  but sort of how did you, how did you sort of
• 12:08
  wear that? And why did you have yourself Sam
• 12:10
  on Twitter? That's the worst with all the assholes
• 12:13
  out there. You've gone, you know what? I'm going
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  to, I'm going to be accountable for my vote.
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  Yeah. That was the, on, on reflection, that was
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  the stupid thing. I, I. And, you know, there's
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  a bunch of people that are like, oh, look, he's
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  just doing it for the engagement and stuff. Like,
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  look, if anyone had listened to our show throughout
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  the season, like this would not have been surprising.
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  We had been kind of soft launching this like
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  all the way through the year. I'm like, I honestly
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  think Justin Herbert might be the most valuable
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  player in the NFL. I think I might vote for him.
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  Like we had been saying this kind of thing for
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  the back half of the season. Right. So. And then
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  the other thing we had said is, look. the AP
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  doesn't want you putting your vote out there
• 12:49
  until, you know, all the thing gets released
• 12:51
  and then you can put your stuff out there. So
• 12:53
  again, we'd said, look, I can't officially say
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  who I'm voting for, but as soon as the thing
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  goes live, I'll put out my vote, you know, and
• 13:01
  let everyone know what we did. So in my head,
• 13:03
  it's like, oh, look, it's out. You know, everyone's
• 13:06
  going nuts here. I'll put out the thing saying
• 13:08
  that I'm the Justin Herbert voter because I said
• 13:10
  all along I would do that. Ton of people took
• 13:13
  that as like proof that I was just engagement
• 13:15
  farming like oh, he's only in it for the the
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  clicks Look at this Otherwise, why else would
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  he put you know this tweet out there? So I didn't
• 13:23
  really see that coming probably should have and
• 13:25
  then the other thing I didn't really see coming
• 13:27
  was Like whatever about just an avalanche of
• 13:30
  abuse coming your way. That's kind of standard
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  internet these days I didn't expect to get doxed
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  off the back of it and have people like posting
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  my address and phone number and stuff. Oh shit
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  and it's like And the problem, the big thing
• 13:42
  about that is like we're in San Francisco. The
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  only people at my house are my, you know, wife
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  and daughter and stuff. And I'm like, I don't
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  know if this is a problem or not. Like I, you
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  know, so I had Steve, a friend of his has like
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  family in every Cincinnati law enforcement agency.
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  And this guy was like saying, Hey, if you know,
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  do you want somebody going around the house?
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  I'm like, I don't know. And then a guy, Tyler,
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  who was our producer at PFF, Tyler was offering
• 14:08
  to drive around in my house with a gun and sit
• 14:10
  in the driveway. And I'm like, again, I don't
• 14:13
  know if that's a good idea or not. I don't think
• 14:15
  so. Thanks for the offer, I guess. But like,
• 14:17
  can you imagine you've got you've got like Dave
• 14:19
  Portnoy or Nick Wright rocking up throwing eggs
• 14:21
  at your house? Yeah. So that would be their juvenile
• 14:25
  approach. The assumption was it was just some
• 14:27
  idiot kid, you know, posting it to be an asshole.
• 14:30
  But it's like that's the that was the bad part
• 14:32
  where it's like, I don't know. If this is a problem
• 14:34
  or not, because all it takes is one idiot or
• 14:36
  a lunatic, you know, with a gun to show up at
• 14:39
  your house when you're not there. Um, so that
• 14:42
  part wasn't fun, but the rest is just, it is
• 14:45
  kind of crazy how like way over the top people
• 14:48
  are going to take stuff like that. It's like,
• 14:50
  it's not that serious guys, you know, chill.
• 14:54
  Yeah. Yeah. In Australia, we say play the ball,
• 14:57
  not the man. So like disagree with the opinion,
• 14:59
  which is fine. And people will. But then they,
• 15:02
  you know, they start with the person should have
• 15:04
  his voting credentials removed, like in a true
• 15:06
  democracy. Right. And then, you know, they're
• 15:08
  doxing you. It's just a dark underbelly. Yeah.
• 15:12
  And even then, like that, that's fine. Right.
• 15:14
  Like, oh, this guy should have his vote taken
• 15:16
  away. Like, all right, cool. That's your call.
• 15:18
  That's your opinion. Fair enough. Right. But
• 15:20
  it's like the immediate jump from that to like,
• 15:24
  we're going to, you know, post this guy's Address
• 15:27
  and phone number online. Like we're, we're going
• 15:29
  to actually wish serious harm on this person.
• 15:31
  Like that's taken it too far. Yeah. Just a bit.
• 15:35
  Yep. Yeah. But you also say like guys in their
• 15:39
  sixties with full face paint and like paraphernalia
• 15:43
  on it, the game. So it's hard to know like what
• 15:47
  the expectation would be of, um, of. people being
• 15:51
  passionate about, uh, you know, potential MVP
• 15:55
  being taken from their quarterback or something.
• 15:57
  I just don't think the Bostonians would probably
• 15:59
  travel over to San Fran to cause too much trouble.
• 16:02
  It was, that was the other thing. At least it
• 16:04
  wasn't like Jalen Hurts or something like that.
• 16:06
  Yeah. That was the other part that made me think
• 16:08
  it probably wasn't that bad. It's like, look,
• 16:10
  it's, I'm in Cincinnati, you know, the people
• 16:12
  really pissed off about this. We're in Boston.
• 16:13
  It's probably not that big of a deal. Um, but
• 16:16
  that's like, uh, that's the other aspect of it
• 16:19
  that was kind of crazy. It's like, it needed
• 16:22
  to be the perfect storm that it was where it
• 16:24
  basically came down to one vote for it to be
• 16:26
  as big of a deal as it was. Like, and again,
• 16:28
  when you're making the vote, you don't know what
• 16:30
  anybody else is voting. I knew I would be out
• 16:32
  on an island. I knew I would, you know, it'd
• 16:34
  be in a minority. I didn't expect the difference
• 16:36
  between Stafford and May to be like one vote
• 16:38
  effectively. And suddenly, you know, my vote
• 16:41
  is like, oh, look, you're the swing vote here.
• 16:43
  And also the people, the two people that voted
• 16:46
  for Josh Allen, like they really dodged a bullet
• 16:48
  because they just sat there and stayed quiet.
• 16:50
  I'm like, and they should have. Like, don't stand
• 16:55
  down and put yourself on that. All right, let's
• 17:01
  get into some NFL chat. Al, where do you want
• 17:03
  to start? Well, since Sam's led us down the Herbert
• 17:07
  MVP pathway, it would probably seem reasonable
• 17:11
  that you would be pretty high on the charges
• 17:14
  this year, since last year you thought Herbert
• 17:16
  was an MVP. caliber player under Greg Roman.
• 17:19
  So maybe talk to our listeners a bit on your
• 17:21
  thoughts on the Chargers off season. Is this
• 17:23
  the year where they finally achieved their potential
• 17:25
  under Mike McDaniel? Yeah, it's interesting because
• 17:28
  before last year, I would have been of the opinion
• 17:30
  that Herbert hadn't really put it all together
• 17:32
  yet. And that he's, you know, a quarterback that's
• 17:35
  obviously got the talent to, but was inconsistent,
• 17:38
  was sort of streaky, you know, hadn't really
• 17:40
  had that year. We were like, Oh, he's arrived
• 17:42
  and he's as good as anybody now. Um, and then
• 17:45
  I think last year he did. And then it didn't
• 17:47
  look like it during the second half of the season
• 17:49
  because the offensive line just became like a
• 17:52
  complete mess and you can kind of tell who's
• 17:56
  even watching when they're arguing because like
• 17:58
  people will bring up that philadelphia game they're
• 18:00
  like look at these numbers is terrible like did
• 18:02
  you watch that game like the fact that they were
• 18:05
  even in the game at any point was only because
• 18:08
  of justin harvard right even though the numbers
• 18:10
  weren't good it's like that game is a positive
• 18:12
  for his MVP case, not a negative. And if you'd
• 18:17
  watch it, you would, I think, see that. So going
• 18:19
  into this year, you're like, well, if that was
• 18:21
  real and we just fix the offensive line, we're
• 18:23
  in business. Right. And that's before you get
• 18:25
  to the idea that, you know, maybe Lad McConkey
• 18:27
  was playing hurt last year and maybe Quinton
• 18:30
  Johnson could take another step forward and Mike
• 18:32
  McDaniel's arriving now. So there's, you know,
• 18:34
  more good stuff to add. If we just fix the offensive
• 18:37
  line, we might have an MVP type of player on
• 18:40
  our hands. you're getting two fifths of it back
• 18:43
  just by getting, you know, the two tackles coming
• 18:45
  back from injury. Joel, I feel very good about
• 18:48
  Rashaan Slater. It's a little bit more kind of
• 18:51
  TBD because the injury is more severe because
• 18:53
  he's already had it flare up and stuff. So we'll
• 18:55
  see how that goes. But theoretically, we're getting
• 18:57
  bookend tackles back in business. And then it's
• 19:00
  like, well, what does the interior look like
• 19:02
  now? The adage there, you're like, OK, we've
• 19:05
  now got three fifths of a good offensive line.
• 19:07
  And McDaniel tends to be able to sort of make
• 19:08
  magic happen with the other guys. So Don't love
• 19:12
  it on paper, but I'm okay with it the adage goes
• 19:14
  down It's like I don't really like any of the
• 19:16
  three guys in the middle and we're asking a lot
• 19:19
  of Mike McDaniel now to make this magic happen
• 19:22
  And that so you don't feel great about that,
• 19:24
  but the other things are all still there right
• 19:26
  Herbert should still be amazing I you know, there
• 19:29
  is this world where Mike McDaniel he's kind of
• 19:31
  said bits and pieces of this before Like it's
• 19:34
  basically the first time he's had like a real
• 19:37
  like a real quarterback, right? The guy that's
• 19:39
  drawn up the thing that's everybody's looking
• 19:41
  for, like the huge cannon, athletic, like all
• 19:45
  the physical traits. This is the first one of
• 19:47
  those he's really had. And if he was able to
• 19:49
  turn Tua into a guy that could operate like an
• 19:53
  offense that hung 70 on the Broncos, you know,
• 19:55
  was the league leading all time type of pace
• 19:59
  offense for like six weeks of the season, like
• 20:01
  what does Herbert put on the table that he's
• 20:04
  never been able to do before? So I think there
• 20:07
  is a world where that combination can create
• 20:10
  something pretty spectacular. But now we just
• 20:13
  need to see, A, is that realistic? Or is this
• 20:16
  sort of, are we expecting it to scale more than
• 20:19
  it's actually possible to scale? And then B,
• 20:22
  how much of an impact does that offensive line
• 20:23
  have? And will that hold the whole thing back?
• 20:29
  There's a lot to unpack there. I mean, so something
• 20:32
  that's come to mind is the throw that Herbert
• 20:34
  made to Quentin Johnston just yesterday in the
• 20:37
  third preseason game. It traveled 45 air yards
• 20:40
  per next -gen stats. That was the greatest number
• 20:43
  of air yards a Mike McDaniel quarterback has
• 20:45
  had on a throw since he's been in the NFL. So
• 20:48
  it took all of two, three games for McDaniel
• 20:50
  to think, hey, I've got a different kind of weapon.
• 20:52
  Let's attack different parts of the field. Bjardis
• 20:55
  is one that hurts. And I know Andy, you've got
• 20:58
  some questions coming up, but it seems like the
• 21:00
  approach Hortiz took Sam was to think... In an
• 21:04
  outside zone heavy scheme, your bookend tackles
• 21:06
  are really important getting out on, you know,
• 21:08
  lead toss plays or whatever. You need an athletic
• 21:11
  center who can reach block. We're going to invest
• 21:14
  there. Beardish, you know, he was PFF's 11th
• 21:16
  ranked center last season. This is a really good,
• 21:19
  solid center who should provide a significant
• 21:23
  upgrade over the play the team was getting from
• 21:25
  Bradley Bozeman last year. And then it seems
• 21:28
  that the approach they took to guard I mean,
• 21:31
  man, you can you can tell me I'm pretty obsessed
• 21:34
  with the NFL. I'd never heard of Coyote Awashika,
• 21:36
  this kind of seven year veteran depth interior
• 21:39
  offensive lineman. He's penciled in to start
• 21:41
  at left guard. You bring in Cole Strange, really
• 21:44
  a former first round bust on his third team,
• 21:47
  has the scheme familiarity. They're your answers
• 21:50
  at guard. You're already a little bit suspect
• 21:52
  that the team looks like they may have three
• 21:54
  out of five solid or better pieces and the other
• 21:57
  two they'll work it out. You then lose Beardish,
• 22:00
  in comes a rookie center who people had graded
• 22:02
  differently depending on who you asked and in
• 22:04
  for what scheme. The question now, I mean, I
• 22:08
  feel that the dread, I feel like all season are
• 22:10
  we going to be patching over this interior offensive
• 22:12
  line? Do you think, Sam, we've seen, we've seen
• 22:15
  Mike McDaniel do this in the past. Do you think
• 22:17
  just having Herbert and moving the pocket and
• 22:20
  throwing screen passes and all the different
• 22:22
  ways you can try and mitigate a poor interior
• 22:25
  offensive line, are you expecting McDaniel can
• 22:27
  do that again? Or are you a bit worried about
• 22:30
  the names on paper who are, who are on the interior
• 22:32
  this year? I mean, I think both like, the the
• 22:36
  Shanahan scheme and McDaniel in particular have
• 22:39
  shown like a fairly consistent ability to elevate
• 22:42
  offensive lines that do not look good on paper
• 22:44
  right and basically every year we went into the
• 22:48
  season looking at Miami's offensive line going
• 22:50
  man that looks that looks pretty rough right
• 22:52
  and it was rarely that big of a problem like
• 22:55
  they were able to pretty consistently hide that
• 22:57
  and paper over it and make it not look like a
• 23:00
  big problem and you know so much of what this
• 23:02
  offense does as a base scheme is all the stuff
• 23:05
  you talked about get these guys in the move,
• 23:08
  shift the pocket, not ask them to just drop straight
• 23:10
  backwards and hold up as a kind of clean classic
• 23:14
  pocket shape. So you are kind of minimizing the
• 23:17
  number of plays, where the problem is a problem.
• 23:22
  But they still exist, right? And the problem
• 23:24
  is, I think they tend to exist in the most critical
• 23:26
  highest, highest leverage situations you're going
• 23:29
  to find, right? So when it's third and 15, that's
• 23:32
  the play, right? And Those are the ones you can't
• 23:35
  really run if you don't have an interior trio
• 23:38
  that you can trust to hold up for two and a half,
• 23:40
  three seconds in a straight drop back, you know,
• 23:42
  pure pass type of set. So I think that's probably
• 23:45
  where it manifests the most. So I think you could
• 23:49
  probably say, look, it looks pretty bad on paper
• 23:51
  right now. It probably won't be as bad as it
• 23:54
  looks because of Mike McDaniel and all the stuff
• 23:57
  we're talking about. But the question becomes,
• 23:59
  is it enough of a problem that it sort of stops
• 24:02
  Herbert looking like the MVP that I think we
• 24:04
  think he can be, right? Like if he had a top
• 24:08
  five offensive line in front of him going into
• 24:09
  the season, I think most people, like he might
• 24:11
  be the betting favorite for MVP at that point.
• 24:14
  If you go from that to what they're about to
• 24:16
  have, like how much does that take away from
• 24:18
  that MVP case? Outside of the MVP sort of conversation,
• 24:25
  Does Justin Herbert need to play at an MVP level
• 24:29
  for this team to be more successful? So will
• 24:33
  the scheme overall like lift the sort of level
• 24:37
  of all the other players to, especially with
• 24:40
  Alton Slater back, that we're not as reliant
• 24:43
  on Herbert doing superhuman things like he did
• 24:46
  throughout last season? Honestly, I don't think
• 24:49
  we know yet because There's a lot of variables
• 24:52
  about this team. A lot of unknowns for this team
• 24:54
  going into this year. You've got the defensive
• 24:57
  side, what it still looks like now that Jesse
• 24:59
  Minter is moving on. They've got to replace him.
• 25:02
  Are they able to pick up where they left off
• 25:04
  and is that going to be a strong? Omari and Hampton,
• 25:07
  I thought looked really good, even though his
• 25:08
  numbers aren't necessarily great. Again, that's
• 25:11
  an offensive line problem as much as anything
• 25:12
  else. Does Omari and Hampton take a big step
• 25:15
  forward this year? How productive will he be?
• 25:18
  um talked about the wide receivers already you
• 25:20
  know lad mcconkey coming back uh from injury
• 25:24
  that's that was sort of quiet last year does
• 25:26
  he go back to looking like his best mike mcdaniel's
• 25:29
  talking up quentin johnson a lot is he able to
• 25:31
  get the best version of quentin johnson out there
• 25:33
  you know what does that receiving core look like
• 25:35
  generally and then you and then the offensive
• 25:38
  line that we already mentioned and then it's
• 25:39
  sort of you roll all that together and you're
• 25:41
  like well how good is this team independent of
• 25:44
  the quarterback Now, how good do we need the
• 25:46
  quarterback to be in order for them to be Denver,
• 25:48
  Kansas city, you know, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cincinnati,
• 25:52
  all the other contenders in the AFC. I just,
• 25:54
  I don't think we know that yet until we see sort
• 25:57
  of the impact or the effect of all these other
• 25:59
  elements of the team. Yeah. Well, it's been a
• 26:03
  pretty similar story for in the two years that
• 26:06
  Harbaugh has been in charge with, you know, double
• 26:08
  digit wins and then an early exit in the playoffs.
• 26:12
  So I think it's almost like we won't quite see
• 26:14
  until that the result of that first playoff game
• 26:18
  as to whether this team has mentally, uh, improved
• 26:21
  and being able to sort of get over that hurdle.
• 26:24
  But, um, Sam, where do you stand on, on that?
• 26:28
  So the last two seasons team bows out in the
• 26:30
  wild card. Herbert plays underwhelming fashion
• 26:34
  as well. Like a couple of his worst games, right?
• 26:37
  Like I think just objectively Herbert, like some
• 26:40
  uncharacteristic poor decisions, just looking
• 26:43
  like he's shrinking in those big moments. Where
• 26:45
  do you stand on that Sam? Because on the one
• 26:47
  side, you've got the people out there who didn't
• 26:49
  like Herbert from the get go, right? As an Oregon
• 26:52
  quarterback, he's a quieter guy, introverted
• 26:55
  dude, he's not a leader. And then you've got
• 26:57
  the other side who say, well, look at the situation
• 27:01
  around him. Look at the play calling, look at
• 27:03
  the offensive line, look at the Brandon's daily
• 27:05
  defense, look at and come up with the excuses.
• 27:07
  Where do you sit on that spectrum? Yeah, I mean,
• 27:11
  I think I think it's true to say that Justin
• 27:13
  Herbert has not played his best football in the
• 27:15
  playoffs so far That was also true for Lamar
• 27:18
  Jackson until it stopped being true It was true
• 27:20
  for Josh Allen until it became the exact opposite
• 27:24
  and actually now Allen's played a lot of his
• 27:26
  best football in the playoffs I'm generally of
• 27:29
  the opinion that Your weaknesses get exposed
• 27:32
  in the playoffs, right and often that just sort
• 27:35
  of gets It just get it reflects on the quarterback
• 27:38
  and we just go well the quarterback didn't get
• 27:40
  it done, right? But actually how much of that
• 27:42
  was the quarterback not getting it done how much
• 27:44
  of it was some other element of the team? You
• 27:47
  know got looked way worse in the playoffs and
• 27:49
  the quarterbacks just kind of dealing with that
• 27:51
  like Drake May last year played his worst football
• 27:54
  in the playoffs Because his offensive line suddenly
• 27:57
  became a complete and total liability and his
• 28:00
  receiving core couldn't get open right and they
• 28:01
  were against literally I think the four best
• 28:04
  defenses in the NFL one after another like he
• 28:06
  played the top four defenses that he could play
• 28:09
  and Suddenly his offensive line can't protect
• 28:12
  and his receivers can't get open So, of course,
• 28:14
  he's gonna play worse like that just makes sense,
• 28:16
  right? And he still made some big plays in that
• 28:20
  and you know, it wasn't like a complete and total
• 28:21
  disaster but like My opinion coming out of that
• 28:24
  would be more that look, Will Campbell couldn't
• 28:28
  block anybody in the postseason. Nobody could
• 28:31
  get open and therefore Drake may like two out
• 28:34
  of the three pillars that support quarterbacks
• 28:36
  fell apart, right? So I would expect him to play
• 28:39
  worse. I think that's the Occam's razor, which
• 28:41
  thing is most likely to be the case. I think
• 28:43
  that's way more likely an explanation than we
• 28:46
  reached the playoffs. And so Drake may just imploded
• 28:49
  through the pressure, right? I think that's Significantly
• 28:52
  more likely and I think generally that's probably
• 28:54
  the case. I it takes a lot for me to I think
• 28:57
  shift in the other direction The only one I can
• 29:00
  think of at the moment is I think Dallas and
• 29:03
  Dank Prescott some combination of those I think
• 29:06
  they they are having problems in the postseason
• 29:08
  that are independent of things just get harder
• 29:11
  like I think they are working against You know
• 29:14
  25 30 years of history and when they get into
• 29:17
  the playoffs they they tighten up they choke
• 29:20
  generally Um, I don't think that's the point,
• 29:22
  Sam, right? Cause it's, it's a sample, sample
• 29:25
  size issue. Like with, with Herbert, he's played
• 29:28
  three playoff games, one in 2022. And then those
• 29:32
  kinds of confounding factors can, can have an
• 29:34
  impact. It's hard to draw strong conclusions.
• 29:36
  You're talking about the Cowboys over, over a
• 29:38
  period of 30 years. Yeah. I mean, it's sample
• 29:41
  size and it's, you know, the quarterback is always
• 29:43
  the focus. So if it goes badly, the quarterback's
• 29:45
  going to get blamed. If it goes well, the court,
• 29:47
  like, you know, quarterbacks can win playoff
• 29:50
  games playing terribly and nobody will know that
• 29:52
  they played terribly right like it just gets
• 29:54
  swept under the rug but if they don't win the
• 29:56
  game because another element of the team isn't
• 29:58
  good well then the not great quarterback performance
• 30:00
  is a disaster and it's them that choked yeah
• 30:04
  it's sort of like up the top my head Trent Dilfer
• 30:07
  in the 2000 Ravens where you know it's purely
• 30:10
  like a defensive effort and he uh kind of rides
• 30:14
  in and did enough But if, if they lose, it would
• 30:17
  have been all on him, right? So it's just, that's
• 30:20
  the nature of the beast of carrying literally
• 30:24
  the entire football team on your shoulders. Yeah.
• 30:27
  Or, um, you know, Peyton Manning, when he won
• 30:30
  his second Superbowl ring, I mean, he could barely
• 30:32
  play. He was terrible. Peyton Manning was not
• 30:36
  obviously any better than Brock Osweiler that
• 30:38
  season, right? But the Denver defense was like
• 30:42
  one of the best defense of all time. They carry
• 30:44
  him to that second ring and nobody remembers.
• 30:48
  Nobody cares, right? He got it done. He got the
• 30:50
  second wing. It's ring. It's validating. But
• 30:52
  like, you know, the average like six yards per
• 30:55
  attempt in that playoff run, he didn't play particularly
• 30:58
  well. I don't think in any game he was carried
• 31:00
  and that's fine. But that's, you know, this is
• 31:02
  the way this works, right? We only remember it
• 31:04
  in the light of whether they won or lost. Yeah,
• 31:07
  exactly. If we can just jump back to, as Al touched
• 31:14
  on, the approach to the off season and sort of
• 31:16
  rebuilding the interior offensive line, how do
• 31:18
  you feel like the heat under Joe Hortiz's sort
• 31:23
  of seat? Because it was an astounding amount
• 31:25
  of cap space. That was the clear issue last year
• 31:28
  that Herbert was hit and sacked at a record rate.
• 31:32
  And they spend 10 million a year on Beardish
• 31:36
  and then get Cole for street change and, and
• 31:42
  no -name at all. Well, you know, a very under
• 31:45
  noted left guard. So how do you sort of feel
• 31:48
  like the heat is on Hortiz and his approach to
• 31:52
  building that line? Well, I think if it does
• 31:55
  look like the biggest problem on the roster,
• 31:57
  like if we go into the season and it's like,
• 31:59
  oh man, this offensive line's getting its ass
• 32:01
  kicked again, you know, Herbert's running for
• 32:03
  his life, like this is going to be the thing
• 32:05
  that stops this being a Super Bowl team, well
• 32:08
  then I think there's some real questions to answer
• 32:10
  because I didn't love their off -season approach
• 32:13
  generally to the offensive line, like I expected
• 32:15
  them to treat the line the way the Chiefs did
• 32:18
  when they lost that first Super Bowl and their
• 32:20
  line got torn to shreds and That wasn't even
• 32:22
  their starting line. They just lost so many people
• 32:25
  that at that point it was a second string unit,
• 32:28
  basically, and it got wrecked. But they came
• 32:30
  out of that game and they went, oh, we are rebuilding
• 32:33
  this thing. That is never happening again. We're
• 32:36
  going to invest in the offensive line. We're
• 32:37
  going to pay more money than anybody else. And
• 32:39
  we're going to make sure Mahomes is never running
• 32:41
  for his life again. I kind of expected the Chargers
• 32:44
  to do that coming out of last season. It was
• 32:47
  so bad that I assumed they would go all the way
• 32:50
  the other way and say, We are making sure that
• 32:53
  Herbert never has to deal with that again. And
• 32:55
  instead, you know, OK, you could say two fifths
• 32:58
  of that offensive line are coming back. That's
• 32:59
  fine. You don't have to do anything about the
• 33:01
  tackles. And the Beatish move was good. And I
• 33:05
  like jumping on that before free agency. Right.
• 33:07
  He got cut. He's available before the frenzy.
• 33:10
  Grab him, get him signed, get that done. And
• 33:12
  now you're down to two spots. From that moment
• 33:15
  on, I thought they kind of went, you know, they
• 33:17
  got way too relaxed about the offensive line.
• 33:19
  Like I thought they still should have gone. looking
• 33:22
  for a free agent guard, prioritized in the draft.
• 33:25
  And you could come out of this off season with,
• 33:27
  you know, five starters that you felt really
• 33:30
  good about on paper, albeit one of them would
• 33:32
  be, you know, an unproven rookie first rounder
• 33:35
  or whatever. But like, you know, the kind of
• 33:37
  guy that's supposed to step in day one and be
• 33:38
  good. And OK, there's some there's no continuity
• 33:42
  there would have been new faces. But like you
• 33:44
  would have felt good about that offensive line
• 33:46
  instead, even before Biatish went down. You're
• 33:49
  like, the Adish is an upgrade, but he's sort
• 33:52
  of solid rather than great. And then the two
• 33:54
  guys either side of it, like the entire interior
• 33:56
  might still not be great. Right. And that was
• 33:58
  before he went down hurt. And now you're like,
• 34:01
  the entire interior is probably not good. And
• 34:04
  given where they started, that just feels like
• 34:07
  such a like such an easy miss. Like you could
• 34:10
  have done way better than that. Even even if
• 34:12
  you say, look, the Adish thing is not their fault.
• 34:15
  Injuries happen. That's unlucky. it still feels
• 34:17
  like you didn't treat it as seriously as you
• 34:19
  could and should have. What's hard there? I agree.
• 34:23
  I mean, that's the common refrain from all fans,
• 34:26
  us included as a pod. I suppose Portiz, you know,
• 34:29
  the Baltimore model of team building, he gets
• 34:32
  a bit of sticker shock. You know, he wants to
• 34:34
  pay fair value for what he perceives to be the
• 34:36
  player's worth. And maybe he just thought this
• 34:38
  free agent class wasn't as good as last year.
• 34:40
  He might say, Who did we really miss out on Sam,
• 34:43
  like Isaac Sayamalo, some guy in his mid to late
• 34:45
  30s, Elton Jenkins, Elijah Vera Tucker, some
• 34:49
  of these guys we might have been interested in,
• 34:51
  they didn't want to come to us. So we prioritized
• 34:54
  finding the guys we thought were a scheme fit,
• 34:57
  and we attacked defensive line three times in
• 34:59
  the draft, slaughtered round two, a couple of
• 35:01
  flyers in round six. and reprioritize center
• 35:04
  and we're going to spend our money out elsewhere.
• 35:07
  It's a bold approach based on your key principles
• 35:10
  and tenets. The problem is you have one injury
• 35:13
  like this to be artish. And if it all now falls
• 35:16
  apart, you're just going to look like an idiot.
• 35:18
  Yeah. I mean, I do think I do have some time
• 35:21
  for that argument. Like I think if he was going
• 35:23
  to make that argument publicly, I think he'd
• 35:25
  be right to a large degree. It wasn't a great
• 35:27
  off season for interior offensive line help generally.
• 35:30
  Right. And it's certainly there would have been
• 35:33
  better off seasons, you know, to have had a war
• 35:35
  chest to have had a need and gone out and overhauled
• 35:37
  three guys on the interior offensive line. But
• 35:40
  the first thing is if, you know, if Bjaric goes
• 35:45
  down and then the interior offensive line is
• 35:46
  getting wrecked all season, nobody cares. Right.
• 35:48
  Like you can't make that argument then. It's
• 35:50
  like, hey, it was the right thing on paper that
• 35:52
  the value just wasn't there. Like nobody cares.
• 35:54
  Your quarterback is getting killed. Right. You
• 35:56
  had to do something. And then the other thing
• 35:58
  is. there's a difference I think a lot of NFL
• 36:02
  GM's and this is kind of this is where this gets
• 36:05
  awkward because analytics and Sort of camp management
• 36:09
  people and all the kind of the people in that
• 36:11
  type of world They're all there to try and steal,
• 36:15
  you know little edges here there and percentage
• 36:18
  points and Do optimal kind of roster construction
• 36:22
  strategy and the problem is that all that kind
• 36:25
  of takes place in a vacuum I don't want to say
• 36:27
  you know spreadsheet because that's It's so where
• 36:30
  the criticism always starts but like they tend
• 36:32
  to treat it as this happens in a vacuum and theoretically
• 36:35
  you never want to do this and that but nobody
• 36:38
  starts from a blank sheet of paper right you
• 36:40
  are always in a situation it's like football
• 36:42
  manager right you're given scenarios it's like
• 36:44
  well here's the scenario you're six points back
• 36:47
  there's eight games to play. Go win the championship
• 36:50
  this season right like this is the scenario we're
• 36:52
  giving you so the charger scenario is you getting
• 36:56
  two tackles back. You got nobody in your interior
• 36:59
  trio that we trust and your quarterback just
• 37:01
  is an mvp caliber player who right now is running
• 37:04
  for his life right free agency is about to start
• 37:06
  the draft and the pipeline you got some here's
• 37:09
  your resources go make it happen right. And what
• 37:12
  they did is they looked at that scenario and
• 37:14
  they said well we don't really like the options
• 37:16
  we just kind of punk on it will bring in behind
• 37:17
  us cuz that was value and we'll just sort of
• 37:20
  basically trade water until maybe next year where
• 37:23
  we prefer the options. Okay that's. that's definitely
• 37:27
  an option but like sometimes you just have to
• 37:29
  say the need is now we need to deviate from you
• 37:32
  know the the optimal best practice thing like
• 37:36
  know when to bend the rules and a good example
• 37:39
  of that if you go back a year ago um john schneider
• 37:42
  and the seahawks schneider said publicly they
• 37:45
  do not draft offensive lineman interior offensive
• 37:48
  lineman in the first round they don't think it
• 37:50
  makes sense you can get these guys later on you
• 37:52
  can get starters later on And they, for one year,
• 37:55
  they did that. And then the second year, they
• 37:56
  still had the same problem. And Graze Abel was
• 37:59
  sitting there and he went, you know what? It
• 38:00
  doesn't make any sense to not pick Graze Abel
• 38:03
  because we think it's not value. It's not optimal.
• 38:06
  We can get them later. Like take the guy that
• 38:08
  fits your biggest need and just move on. Right.
• 38:12
  Graze Abel. He was a huge player for them as
• 38:14
  a rookie. It fixed the problem. And it's like,
• 38:17
  look, is that optimal? Probably not. But it's
• 38:20
  better than the alternative. Right. And that.
• 38:23
  Like that, I think is the balancing act that
• 38:25
  NFL general managers have to make. And it's not
• 38:27
  easy, but I think we've almost pushed them too
• 38:30
  far in the other direction now. I think the old
• 38:31
  school way of doing it would be reactionary knee
• 38:35
  jerk. You know, this is the thing that needs
• 38:37
  to be fixed. Let's just do that immediately.
• 38:39
  And then I think all the data pushed them too
• 38:41
  far in the other direction where they're now
• 38:42
  like, no, it has to be optimal at all times.
• 38:45
  We can never deviate from the book. And now it's
• 38:48
  like, look, sometimes the need is there, the
• 38:50
  players there, like let's not overthink this
• 38:52
  and that's where I think it's difficult to be
• 38:55
  an NFL GM and why there's no right answer to
• 38:58
  this, right? Every situation is unique, every
• 39:01
  situation is a different set of pressures and
• 39:05
  options and alternatives and sometimes you need
• 39:07
  to deviate from what the book would say and just
• 39:10
  lock in an upgrade at a position of need. And
• 39:13
  if you don't like the free agent market, I mean,
• 39:15
  we've just seen an off season where guys like
• 39:17
  Trent McDuffie and Miles Garrett and AJ Brown,
• 39:19
  we're seeing active trades, right? Go out and
• 39:22
  identify a dude who maybe no one's talking about
• 39:25
  and all of a sudden, you know, Quentin Nelson's
• 39:27
  being traded to the charges for a futures that
• 39:29
  just to pick a name out of out of a hat that
• 39:31
  that would be another way if you don't want to
• 39:33
  pay Zion Johnson, let him walk to the Browns
• 39:35
  don't like the free agent class. go get creative
• 39:38
  in the trade market would be another option.
• 39:42
  Alright, I might expand a bit out to some broader
• 39:44
  NFL themes before we play a couple quick games,
• 39:46
  Sam. It would be remiss not to ask you a PFF
• 39:50
  based question since you're here. So we're at
• 39:53
  the time of year now where everyone online is
• 39:55
  pissing and moaning about PFF grades. Talking
• 39:58
  to someone who's been involved or around how
• 40:01
  they're built and calculated is I don't know,
• 40:04
  just interested if there's one element of PFF
• 40:07
  grading you think's done really, really well
• 40:09
  that people are overlooking. And then conversely,
• 40:11
  is there something that you think's problematic
• 40:13
  or could be improved and you kind of regret being
• 40:16
  out there? I think the underlying grade is pretty
• 40:21
  sound and pretty predictive and pretty powerful.
• 40:24
  And actually it's something that gets missed
• 40:26
  by almost everything else. Like there's a lot
• 40:29
  of other data out there now more than there's
• 40:31
  ever been. Whether it's NGS stuff, whether it's
• 40:34
  other people's charting, but like the PFF grading
• 40:37
  system is still picking up a lot of things that
• 40:40
  don't get captured anywhere else. So I think
• 40:42
  the underlying raw grade is still very good almost
• 40:45
  across every single position. Some are more better
• 40:49
  and more powerful than others, but I think overall
• 40:52
  it's a pretty powerful and good thing. What I
• 40:54
  think the biggest mistake they made down the
• 40:56
  years was is in putting it on that zero to 100
• 40:59
  scale and shoehorning it onto that. And I think
• 41:03
  that's the root of a lot of problems because
• 41:06
  the logic was you need something that's easily
• 41:09
  digestible that somebody can just intuitively
• 41:11
  know, well, this is 75. It's like the problem
• 41:14
  is you feel like a zero to 100 scale should be
• 41:18
  like that, but it isn't because every instance
• 41:21
  of a zero to 100 scale is a different Use case
• 41:24
  right Madden's grades are different to like school
• 41:28
  grades over here You know like 75 % in the test
• 41:31
  is different to your Madden grade of 75, which
• 41:33
  is different to your PFF grade of 75 So you still
• 41:36
  have to educate people what your scale means?
• 41:38
  Only now they like there were definitely gonna
• 41:40
  be people think they know what the scale means
• 41:43
  And it just it ends up as a mess and it gets
• 41:46
  mathematically very awkward to put it onto that
• 41:48
  scale Whereas I think the old way doing it was
• 41:50
  actually more sound Didn't create as many problems
• 41:55
  and I think if you'd run the same educational
• 41:57
  sort of process you would have ended up converting
• 41:59
  a lot of people to that anyway, so Those would
• 42:02
  be my things. I think underline that great is
• 42:04
  so powerful. The presentation is a mess Can you
• 42:07
  explain that old grade for listeners who might
• 42:09
  not be familiar that the one that you think is
• 42:11
  better than zero to a hundred potentially So
• 42:13
  the way the grading works is on every single
• 42:15
  play every single player gets a grade in 0 to
• 42:21
  0 .5 increments, either side of zero, right?
• 42:24
  So if you imagine a play starts, everybody starts
• 42:26
  off on a zero, which is an expected grade. If
• 42:29
  you do nothing either good or bad on a given
• 42:33
  play, you're going to get a zero. If you do something
• 42:35
  above expectation, you'll get a positive grade.
• 42:37
  If you do something below expectation, you'll
• 42:39
  get a negative grade. And then how positive or
• 42:41
  negative is like, well, how much above or below
• 42:44
  expectation was it, right? And it goes up in
• 42:47
  zero point five, one, one point five, blah, blah,
• 42:49
  blah. And then all those grades get rolled up
• 42:51
  by the number of snaps and they just basically
• 42:53
  get added up at the end of the game. So the old
• 42:55
  system was basically a plus or a minus number
• 42:59
  based off the number of snaps or the period of
• 43:02
  time we're talking about. So a game grade would
• 43:04
  be like, you know, zero sort of plus four was
• 43:07
  a good game. Plus eight is like an obscene game.
• 43:10
  And then over a season that expanded out to like,
• 43:13
  you know, plus. 20 is a good grade over a season
• 43:15
  plus 30, 40 is really good. And then when you
• 43:18
  get JJ Watt shows up, blows the whole grade up
• 43:21
  to like a plus 90 or something, right? So that's
• 43:23
  kind of the world that you, we inhabited before
• 43:26
  we tried to shoehorn everything onto a zero to
• 43:28
  100 number. Yep. Thank you for explaining. So
• 43:32
  that's, I can understand why some decision maker
• 43:37
  may have thought Well, that's going to be difficult
• 43:39
  for people to understand, whereas if they see
• 43:41
  green 75 out of 100, they're going to have some
• 43:43
  kind of basis to compare that to. But you're
• 43:45
  saying it creates some issues that were being
• 43:49
  pointed out to by the time by people creating
• 43:52
  the formula. And I know for my part, I've always
• 43:55
  I've always been an advocate for at least PFF
• 43:58
  grading, giving us a language to talk about some
• 44:00
  positions where None really existed right we
• 44:03
  used to talk about the number of starts for offensive
• 44:06
  like literally he's had eight stars this season
• 44:09
  so i've always been an advocate i've. You know
• 44:13
  not venting my spleen i've always thought is
• 44:15
  there a case to be made that like i know. I know
• 44:18
  the the premises that each snap is created equal
• 44:21
  and we're gonna grade you plus two to minus two
• 44:23
  per snap i've always wondered. To get closer
• 44:27
  to some of the traditional stats, might it be
• 44:30
  that certain outcomes are weighted a bit more
• 44:33
  heavily, like a sack, like an INT, like a third
• 44:36
  down stop? Because I think where people get really
• 44:38
  upset is they say, oh, you know, James Pierce
• 44:40
  Jr. had three sacks in this game and his PFF
• 44:43
  grade is 38 .5. And they just don't understand.
• 44:47
  And that might've helped, you know, if you weighted
• 44:49
  those players a bit higher, maybe it would've
• 44:51
  made a difference. I don't know. I'm speaking
• 44:53
  off the cuff. Maybe it wouldn't have, Sam. Yeah
• 44:55
  i mean i think there are some instances where
• 44:58
  you do i think wanna wait the individual play
• 45:00
  their situations i think you wanna wait right
• 45:02
  so garbage time you don't wanna wait as much
• 45:04
  as you do other parts of the game cuz it's it's
• 45:07
  the monster less important period right so the
• 45:10
  guy goes and gets three sacks and garbage time.
• 45:12
  I mean those weren't important those weren't
• 45:14
  as good plays the three snacks for the three
• 45:16
  three sacks you made. to get it to garbage time,
• 45:19
  right? So I think situation. Meanwhile, if you
• 45:22
  make a big catch on third and 15 in the fourth
• 45:24
  quarter, that's a way bigger play than if you
• 45:26
  may get on first and 10, you know, with the first
• 45:28
  play of the game. Right. So I think situations
• 45:30
  should definitely end up resulting in different
• 45:33
  grades and they do within the system. So that
• 45:35
  part is taken care of where I think where it
• 45:39
  gets difficult is PFF grading as a concept was
• 45:44
  always designed to separate the player guy is
• 45:47
  making from the results, right? And that's not
• 45:50
  necessarily intuitive. Like a lot of people are
• 45:52
  like, well, the results are all that matters,
• 45:54
  right? But we know if you think about it long
• 45:56
  enough that, like, you don't always get the results
• 45:59
  that you deserve based off the play, right? A
• 46:01
  quarterback throws the ball right to a defender,
• 46:03
  but bounces off his head, goes up in the air,
• 46:06
  and his receiver, like, goes up and mosses everybody
• 46:08
  and comes down with it. Like, woohoo, 20 -yard
• 46:10
  catch, first down. Maybe we get a touchdown on
• 46:13
  the play. Like, great play by the quarterback
• 46:14
  statistically, right? But it was it was a terrible
• 46:17
  play through the ball right to a linebacker.
• 46:19
  Right. He just got lucky. And he dropped it.
• 46:22
  Right. So the PFF grade is an attempt to sort
• 46:25
  of separate that out and actually tell you what
• 46:27
  play did the guy make, not what result did he
• 46:30
  get. And like, that's the easy example of where
• 46:32
  it can really lie to you. But you brought up
• 46:35
  the sacks thing. And that's where it gets complicated
• 46:37
  because you're right. From like an EPA point
• 46:40
  of view or like win probability point of view.
• 46:44
  A pass rusher getting a sack is like a way more
• 46:46
  valuable play than getting a hit or getting pressure
• 46:49
  or whatever, right? But it's not necessarily
• 46:54
  a skill that he made to turn the win into a sack,
• 46:59
  right? And this is why you hear a lot now that
• 47:02
  sacks are a quarterback stat, and that's becoming
• 47:05
  a kind of more common saying than it used to
• 47:08
  be. And it's because quarterbacks, more than
• 47:10
  almost anything else, Like determine whether
• 47:13
  that win from a pass rusher becomes a sack ahead
• 47:16
  or hurry right he's basically at in control over
• 47:19
  when he gets rid of the ball. So if you're you
• 47:22
  know pick your favorite pass rusher miles garret
• 47:24
  wins in one second flat. What happens after that
• 47:28
  is usually not miles garret's control right it's
• 47:31
  usually does the quarterback get the ball does
• 47:34
  the coverage hold up does you know something
• 47:37
  else determines. what result that individual
• 47:40
  play gets to the pf grade says what he what is
• 47:43
  going on second flat that's elite right. What
• 47:47
  happens after that is not really within his control
• 47:49
  unless he like miss is that you know falls off
• 47:52
  the quarterback fails to actually finish the
• 47:54
  sack which case like will take a like pf would
• 47:57
  take a bit of great often but generally they're
• 47:59
  like your job was beating your block within a
• 48:02
  second and bearing down on the quarterback and
• 48:05
  the results are not really within your control.
• 48:08
  And so that I think is the problem with with
• 48:10
  trying to sort of separate that way and go well
• 48:12
  if we all because similarly right there are some
• 48:15
  sacks where they're not good plays by the defensive
• 48:17
  end he just happened to be there when a guy got
• 48:19
  like flushed past him and literally all he did
• 48:21
  is reach out grab the guy and fall over right
• 48:24
  botch snap quarterback falls over the ball yeah
• 48:26
  exactly right the Brett Favre you know the Michael
• 48:29
  Strahan play right he literally falls down in
• 48:31
  front of him Michael Strahan just sort of runs
• 48:33
  up taps him down gets a record like That's demonstrably
• 48:36
  not a good play by Michael Strahan. It would
• 48:40
  make no sense to me to give him like a boost
• 48:42
  just because it was a sack, right? Because the,
• 48:45
  the statistic at the end of it is more valuable
• 48:47
  than the play he made earlier where he, he just
• 48:50
  like whooped the guy and only got a pressure.
• 48:53
  Yeah. It's like the guy who recovered Sanchez's
• 48:55
  butt fumble. Just did nothing but be in the right
• 48:59
  place at the right time and execute a pickup.
• 49:01
  Yeah. Yeah. How did you have a question on personnel
• 49:05
  charges? Yeah. Yeah. I've got one more man. And
• 49:07
  then we'll, yep. And then we'll do some lightning
• 49:09
  round questions. So this is more of a take Sam.
• 49:12
  Let me know what you think. Let me know what
• 49:13
  you think listeners in the comments. So most
• 49:16
  teams, my take is most teams who went down this
• 49:18
  13 personnel pathway this off season will live
• 49:21
  to regret it. And for those who don't know what
• 49:23
  I'm talking about, 13 personnel, one running
• 49:25
  back, three tight ends. And we've just seen a
• 49:28
  draft where a whole bunch of tight ends. We're
• 49:31
  drafted higher than they were ranked on the consensus
• 49:33
  board where most analysts had them. So the Jags
• 49:36
  draft Nate Borkertscher, the Texans draft Marlon
• 49:39
  Klein out of Michigan. You've got the Dolphins
• 49:41
  drafting Will Casmeric. Why are teams doing this?
• 49:45
  It's because of the Rams, right? Last year, the
• 49:47
  Rams ran 13 personnel at 30 .51 % of their plays,
• 49:53
  more than twice the amount of any other team
• 49:55
  out there. And they also managed to create explosive
• 49:59
  plays from that personnel grouping. Their EPA
• 50:01
  per play was pretty good. Looking through though,
• 50:04
  I've taken a look at the top 10 teams who used
• 50:08
  13 personnel last year by utilization. The Rams,
• 50:12
  Steelers, Cardinals, Colts, Spares are the top
• 50:14
  five. It turns out only three teams inside that
• 50:17
  top 10 had positive EPA per play on 13 personnel
• 50:22
  down. So it's not an especially efficient grouping
• 50:26
  generally having three tight ends off the ball.
• 50:29
  It's just the Rams kind of found this magical
• 50:31
  elixir, which for the record, they also were
• 50:34
  doing with 10 personnel and 11 personnel. They
• 50:36
  were very efficient in those personnel groupings
• 50:38
  as well. And I look at a stat like explosive
• 50:41
  play rate, right? So an explosive pass is 20
• 50:44
  yards and explosive rush is 12. The teams who
• 50:47
  ranked in the top eight in that metric last year
• 50:49
  on offense were the Patriots, the Bills, the
• 50:52
  Ravens, the Rams, the Bears, the Packers, Seahawks.
• 50:57
  These are the best offenses. So my take is explosive
• 51:01
  plays still win in the NFL. And what we're going
• 51:04
  to see is a whole bunch of teams wanting to control
• 51:06
  time of possession, maybe not being very efficient
• 51:09
  at it. And I, you know, to quote Oscar Wilde,
• 51:12
  Sam, I think imitation, it's the most sincere
• 51:14
  form of flattery. That's great for Sean McVeigh,
• 51:16
  but doesn't guarantee similar results. What say
• 51:20
  you, Sam? Um, I think I agree if, if the reason
• 51:25
  everybody is going hard after tight ends is because
• 51:28
  they just want to do the Sean McVeigh offense
• 51:30
  or, you know, copy what Sean McVeigh is doing.
• 51:32
  I think you're right. It's not going to work.
• 51:34
  Um, if the shift towards all these tight ends
• 51:37
  is something more broadly indicative of a push
• 51:42
  back towards kind of power football more conceptually
• 51:46
  generally and just a pivot in that direction
• 51:50
  um and also okay the the tight ends got wildly
• 51:54
  overdrafted generally but it was an unusual year
• 51:59
  for like Just those bodies right six foot five
• 52:03
  guys that could run effectively, right? We had
• 52:05
  an unusual number of those tight ends Coming
• 52:08
  out this year and there aren't that many of those
• 52:09
  guys kicking around like when you when you go
• 52:12
  and sort of meet nfl players face to face two
• 52:16
  got two positions Are the guys that make you
• 52:19
  kind of go? Whoa, those are different human beings.
• 52:22
  It's tight ends and it's defensive ends, right?
• 52:24
  tight ends are just freaky sized human beings
• 52:27
  and You might think you have a tight end, but
• 52:30
  if you actually see a real one, it's like, dude,
• 52:32
  we don't have anybody that looks like that. Like
• 52:34
  those guys are different. So there was a bunch
• 52:36
  of those guys coming out this draft, actual tight
• 52:39
  ends that were that shape and could run. And
• 52:42
  so I think teams kind of pounced on those guys
• 52:43
  generally. But I also think we are seeing now
• 52:47
  this shift that we're going to start pivoting
• 52:49
  back towards more powerful ball. You're seeing
• 52:52
  a ton more under center stuff. in preseason and
• 52:55
  training camp like teams are going back to old
• 52:57
  school under center seven step drop hard play
• 53:01
  action and these are things you use tight ends
• 53:03
  for right and so as much as you stockpile the
• 53:07
  roster for so you can run 13 personnel like the
• 53:09
  rams you also stockpile the roster because you're
• 53:12
  going to use tight ends a lot generally and if
• 53:13
  one of them goes down you need the next guy right
• 53:15
  so it's an attritional position you're going
• 53:18
  to need to start resetting what the roster looks
• 53:20
  like, as well as just being able to run three
• 53:23
  of them on the field at the same time. Yeah,
• 53:26
  I think that's a good response. And the question
• 53:29
  is always whether whether offensive coordinators
• 53:31
  have the patience to continue to run the ball
• 53:33
  when they're seeing favorable looks where they're
• 53:34
  getting a quarter shell. Do can they continue
• 53:37
  to do it? Maybe some teams have struggled to
• 53:39
  really stick with the run. I know charges fans
• 53:41
  feel that way in certain games, maybe the best
• 53:44
  offensive coordinators, hopefully Mike McDaniel
• 53:46
  know when it's time to pass and when it is time
• 53:48
  to run to win. Like what would have been a really
• 53:51
  interesting kind of case study for this theory
• 53:54
  is if this had been like a really weird draft
• 53:57
  where there were like seven Lorenzo Neil shaped
• 53:59
  people in it, right? Like seven guys out of old
• 54:02
  school sort of eye formation, smash mouth offenses,
• 54:06
  like seven dominant fullbacks. I kind of suspect
• 54:09
  those guys would have been drafted way higher
• 54:11
  than they've been in the last decade. because
• 54:14
  of this pivot towards those types of offenses
• 54:16
  as well. And instead, it was just it was tight
• 54:19
  ends. Right. So now we're all like, oh, everyone's
• 54:22
  going to copy the Rams. Everyone's going to try
• 54:23
  and run 13. I think it's more that people are
• 54:26
  just looking for those players again in a way
• 54:28
  they haven't for a while. Scotty McLaugh. Yeah.
• 54:33
  Well, so now you see it because because nobody
• 54:37
  has a Lorenzo Neil, everyone's just get finding
• 54:39
  a 300 pound guy that they think. and throwing
• 54:42
  him in a fullback. There's like five 300 pound
• 54:45
  fullbacks in the NFL right now. Yep. It's wild.
• 54:50
  Bring it back, Mark. I'll stop. All right. Should
• 54:54
  we head into the lightning round just to sort
• 54:56
  of throw some hot takes around? Let's do it.
• 55:01
  Let's do it. Sam, first one for you, Guinness
• 55:04
  or American beer? Guinness because it's not American
• 55:08
  beer. Are you a Guinness drinker or just that's
• 55:13
  what you'd pick over the two of those? I'm not
• 55:15
  really a beer drinker period, but if I was going
• 55:17
  to have something that would be Guinness and
• 55:19
  only in Ireland, I'm not drinking it over here.
• 55:21
  Yeah. Yeah. I'm yet to experience the traditional
• 55:25
  in Ireland. It is different. I mean, it's a cliche,
• 55:28
  but it is. Like it tastes different. Can confirm.
• 55:33
  Andy, you're forced to sing one song at a Dublin
• 55:36
  pub for karaoke. Zombie by the cranberries with
• 55:41
  or without you, you two or whiskey in the jar.
• 55:45
  Thin Lizzy. Oh, whiskey in the jar for sure.
• 55:49
  Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, Sam, I've been,
• 55:57
  I'm making a habit of asking this question because
• 56:00
  it's, you know, it's hot on the topic of at least
• 56:02
  Australian NFL fans. So increase my sample space
• 56:07
  for me, if you'd please. Is Australia too far
• 56:09
  for teams to travel to play a regular season
• 56:12
  game? I'm going to kind of reserve judgment to
• 56:17
  see how this week one goes. If it's going to
• 56:19
  happen, it should happen week one, right? For
• 56:21
  sure. I think that makes it possible. But like
• 56:24
  if you said teams are going to have to start
• 56:26
  doing this in week six, I would say that's insane.
• 56:28
  Yeah. Yeah, that's a, that's a lot to ask. Even
• 56:30
  if it was like favorable with the buyer situation,
• 56:34
  like at least having the sort of come here a
• 56:36
  bit earlier, having not played a game. You do
• 56:39
  know where Australia is on a map just out of
• 56:41
  interest. Oh yeah. Okay. I'm like, that's one
• 56:44
  for two. I would love to have to have tried.
• 56:48
  I feel like Australia and New Zealand to me are
• 56:51
  like running a marathon, right? There are things
• 56:53
  I would like to have done, but I don't want to
• 56:55
  actually do because I don't want to do what's
• 56:57
  required in order to get to Australia or New
• 56:59
  Zealand. I want to get on that plane for 20 something
• 57:02
  hours to make it there. Yeah, that's fair. That's
• 57:06
  nice. I'm happy with that answer. Yeah. Over
• 57:09
  to you, Al. All right. Sam, which NFL quarterback?
• 57:14
  Has the single most aesthetically pleasing throwing
• 57:18
  motion in football history That's a good question,
• 57:23
  you know what I think it's Michael Vick I think
• 57:26
  Michael Vick there's something about the way
• 57:28
  Michael Vick would just like Flick of football.
• 57:31
  He had this kind of like elastic band like whip
• 57:34
  to him that just looked awesome Yeah, it's something
• 57:38
  about the left -handers isn't it they can sort
• 57:40
  of like slingshot it that does That does change
• 57:44
  things. You ever see those videos where they
• 57:46
  flip it left to right, like they reverse the
• 57:48
  video so the left -hander becomes right -hander.
• 57:50
  I've never seen anybody do it actually to Michael
• 57:52
  Vick. I'm kind of curious what it looks like
• 57:53
  now that you said it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I still
• 57:57
  remember that throw Monday night football, whatever,
• 57:59
  80 yards off the play action against the Redskins
• 58:03
  at the time. Just yeah, gorgeous throw of the
• 58:05
  ball. You go Andy. Al, Kansas City will miss
• 58:08
  the playoffs. Oh, that's a good one. I Yeah,
• 58:17
  I think they'll miss the playoffs. I'm going
• 58:19
  to lean in to my homes being a bit slow coming
• 58:22
  back from the injury. I just don't see three
• 58:25
  teams coming. I'm confident the Chargers and
• 58:27
  Broncos are going to get through. So I don't
• 58:28
  know if we're going to have three teams from
• 58:30
  the West, but maybe I'm wish casting a little
• 58:33
  bit on that one. Uh, I'll go straight back to
• 58:36
  you, Andy. Tully to Apollo two and the Chargers
• 58:41
  will agree to terms on a long -term deal before
• 58:43
  week one of the regular season. Yes or no. No,
• 58:52
  and I don't think it matters. Okay, why is that?
• 58:58
  I just think Thule, he returned from his hold
• 59:02
  in without anything on. It's clear that he is
• 59:06
  a little bit more sort of professional and football
• 59:08
  and team minded than perhaps. you know, just
• 59:11
  holding out for the contract. So I think he's
• 59:14
  maybe just wired a little bit different to the
• 59:15
  sort of standard approach that, uh, guys looking
• 59:19
  for with their hand out, uh, kind of take it.
• 59:22
  That's why I think he'll be wanting to get in
• 59:24
  and, and, uh, I don't think it matters. Sam,
• 59:28
  can I invite you to comment on that one? So I'm
• 59:31
  I'm assuming the deal isn't done because Tully's
• 59:33
  agents are wanting 34 million or something like
• 59:36
  that a year to hit that top of the market. And
• 59:37
  maybe the charges want to see a little more production
• 59:39
  before they do that. Do you, do you kind of get
• 59:42
  why they're at an impasse? Do you think it matters?
• 59:46
  Yeah, I think I would be in the same bucket.
• 59:47
  I think they probably don't get it done just
• 59:50
  because we're getting pretty close up against
• 59:51
  it now. And I agree. I think it probably doesn't
• 59:54
  matter. I think they will get them signed long
• 59:56
  -term at some point, but yeah, like he's. he's
• 59:59
  an interesting player where he's not like clearly
• 1:00:01
  in that will anderson jr buck you know like the
• 1:00:04
  top top tier pass rusher but anytime you're trying
• 1:00:07
  to sort of establish what the second layer looks
• 1:00:09
  like in terms of contracts i think it's always
• 1:00:11
  a little tricky so yeah i get why it's a bit
• 1:00:13
  of a struggle for them to get it done but i think
• 1:00:15
  they probably will uh sam Even though it's kind
• 1:00:21
  of getting, I feel the closer to the season it
• 1:00:24
  gets, the less likely it is. But an Aaron Donald
• 1:00:26
  return to the LA Rams would put one hand on the
• 1:00:29
  Lombardi if it's not already there. Yeah. I mean,
• 1:00:33
  look, I was saying, I can't remember a more prohibitive
• 1:00:37
  favorite going into a season than the Rams are
• 1:00:39
  this season. And that honestly is whether or
• 1:00:41
  not they have Aaron Donald. But if they get him
• 1:00:43
  back, and I think they will, it only makes it
• 1:00:46
  more likely. I think just from a statistics standpoint
• 1:00:50
  or a betting standpoint, you're always going
• 1:00:52
  to take the field over one team. But I can't
• 1:00:55
  remember a team being more favored going into
• 1:00:57
  a season than the Rams will be this year. Yeah,
• 1:01:00
  Miles Garrett, certainly a big contributor. And
• 1:01:03
  the sort of taking of the Kansas City secondary
• 1:01:07
  also sort of helps. McDuffie's a massive gain
• 1:01:10
  as well. You know, from a neutral standpoint
• 1:01:13
  or for science, right? The idea of having Miles
• 1:01:16
  Garrett and Aaron Donald lining up next to each
• 1:01:18
  other is sick. Like every single fan who's not
• 1:01:21
  dealing with it directly at that specific moment
• 1:01:24
  should love that as a concept. Like we deserve
• 1:01:26
  to see that. Yeah. In a crazy world that it does
• 1:01:34
  happen and Aaron Donald winds up on a plane out
• 1:01:37
  to Australia with Miles Garrett, that would just
• 1:01:40
  be the greatest treat for us going to that game
• 1:01:43
  and being able to witness those two specimens,
• 1:01:45
  uh, on the field together. That would be. And
• 1:01:49
  now is the kind of time where it should happen.
• 1:01:52
  Like pre -season is done, training camps done,
• 1:01:54
  roster cuts are happening. So they actually kind
• 1:01:56
  of need to know somewhere around now. Now's the
• 1:01:58
  time it makes sense for it to happen. Yeah. All
• 1:02:04
  right, Andy, this one's for you, mate. The death
• 1:02:06
  of the Pro Bowl game announced by the NFL this
• 1:02:08
  week. Sad moment or long overdue? Long overdue
• 1:02:13
  for me. I kind of liked how they went into the
• 1:02:16
  skill set side of things, but the way that it
• 1:02:20
  sort of deteriorated to like a flag football,
• 1:02:23
  the fact that, yeah, give it, just give it an
• 1:02:27
  accolade. It's a fan voted thing as well. Like
• 1:02:30
  I keep seeing things of, um, instead of having
• 1:02:32
  the pro bowl, they should have the two worst
• 1:02:34
  teams in the league playoff and One of them that
• 1:02:38
  determines the number one pick. So, uh, I'd get
• 1:02:42
  like something like that. Glad it's kind of gone.
• 1:02:46
  You're not shedding any tears, Sam. Well, it
• 1:02:50
  needed to die. I mean, the way it's going the
• 1:02:52
  last few years, like it's been put out of its
• 1:02:54
  misery, but I do think it's kind of sad that
• 1:02:57
  football just doesn't get an all -star game because
• 1:02:59
  it became that much of a mess. Like, you know,
• 1:03:01
  you go back. The Pro Bowl used to be kind of
• 1:03:04
  cool, right? Seeing all these all -stars playing
• 1:03:06
  together. It was a good thing. I've seen some
• 1:03:08
  pretty compelling arguments that say like the
• 1:03:10
  worst thing they did was take it out of Hawaii
• 1:03:12
  and move it off like move it before the Super
• 1:03:14
  Bowl when it was sort of treated as this. It's
• 1:03:17
  after this. It's like it's a big celebration
• 1:03:19
  victory for everybody after the season in Hawaii,
• 1:03:22
  right? There was a reason to go when you moved
• 1:03:25
  it before the Super Bowl to like Orlando. Nobody
• 1:03:28
  wants to go to that. So the thing is sand is
• 1:03:30
  playing in it. And that's the thing like he like
• 1:03:34
  he's gonna get held up is like the reason this
• 1:03:36
  game died and he was but not for the reason I
• 1:03:38
  think people are saying the reason that was the
• 1:03:41
  problem is He was literally the first guy that
• 1:03:44
  said yes, right? So they picked up the phone
• 1:03:46
  like everyone pulled out and they started calling
• 1:03:49
  up AFC quarterbacks and every single one of them
• 1:03:52
  said nah I'm good. Don't worry. Nope until they
• 1:03:55
  got to Shador Sanders. So they went through the
• 1:03:56
  entire conference before Shador was like, yeah,
• 1:04:00
  all right, I'll do that. I'm not busy. So like
• 1:04:02
  that was the problem. It's not that they, you
• 1:04:04
  know, they got this terrible player who ended
• 1:04:06
  up being a pro bowler. It's that literally the
• 1:04:09
  entire conference told him, well, like hell no.
• 1:04:12
  When they were trying to phone around to find
• 1:04:13
  somebody like that's the reason the game is no
• 1:04:16
  longer viable because you can't get people to
• 1:04:18
  say yes to it. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good shout.
• 1:04:22
  All right, Sam, you get, uh, you get tickets,
• 1:04:24
  VIP tickets, court side tickets, whatever you
• 1:04:27
  want to a hockey, baseball or basketball game
• 1:04:30
  of your choice, any matchup, any venue, what
• 1:04:33
  are you taking? Uh, I'm going to basketball,
• 1:04:37
  I think just cause I can't stand baseball and
• 1:04:40
  I have no interest in hockey, even though it's
• 1:04:42
  a game that it feels like I should like, it's
• 1:04:45
  got all the hallmarks of a sport that I would
• 1:04:47
  like. I just, I just doesn't do it. Um, so I
• 1:04:50
  would go to a, uh, go to a basketball game. I
• 1:04:54
  mean, you'd probably want to see the Lakers against
• 1:04:56
  the Celtics in some capacity with the question
• 1:04:59
  would be which venue. I think I'd go Boston before
• 1:05:02
  I went to LA. Yeah. Cool. Atmosphere is a big
• 1:05:06
  one. If you're kind of not that enamored by any
• 1:05:09
  option. Yeah. Just the old drive -by of, uh,
• 1:05:14
  Steve with the baseball slander. If he's listening,
• 1:05:16
  uh, last one. Um, before I ask my last question,
• 1:05:22
  who holds their liquor better, by the way, out
• 1:05:24
  of your, you and Steve and you guys go for a
• 1:05:26
  few jars after the. I mean, it would be Steve
• 1:05:29
  just from a volume standpoint. He's just so large.
• 1:05:32
  He's got an advantage, right? Like there's no
• 1:05:34
  way of avoiding that. I will say though, that
• 1:05:36
  I am underrated in that capacity. Um, I don't
• 1:05:40
  generally drink, but I did that the last time
• 1:05:42
  I drank was my sister's wedding a year or so
• 1:05:44
  ago, like properly. And her, like all the guests
• 1:05:48
  were. They basically assume that don't drink
• 1:05:51
  equals can't drink. And so we're like on at me
• 1:05:55
  to like, no, come on, we'll drink. We'll drink.
• 1:05:57
  And I eventually I was like, all right, fine.
• 1:05:58
  Let's just get some drinks. So we did. I put
• 1:06:01
  down some, you know, finance, bro, just myself
• 1:06:05
  and a couple of cousins basically ended this
• 1:06:07
  guy. And then we went, all right, now, now I'm
• 1:06:09
  going to get back on water and be be done with
• 1:06:11
  this. But yeah, I can. But Steve's working with
• 1:06:14
  like 100 pounds of extra capacity than I am.
• 1:06:16
  It's cheating. Yeah, the third one of our show
• 1:06:19
  Jack Jack is a you know, big six foot three hundred
• 1:06:22
  and forty five kilo guy So he puts us under the
• 1:06:25
  table every single time we're gonna be seeing
• 1:06:27
  him week one Rams 49ers at the MCG Jack So you
• 1:06:30
  get another chance to shine Sam. All right. This
• 1:06:33
  is my last question for you. It's another Irish
• 1:06:35
  one. Okay You can invite two of these famous
• 1:06:41
  Irish people to a long lunch with you in Dublin.
• 1:06:43
  The list is Patrick Pierce Bono, Sinead O 'Connor,
• 1:06:50
  Conor McGregor, Roy Keane, and James Joyce. Pick
• 1:06:56
  two of the six. I think definitely Roy Keane
• 1:07:00
  and probably Patrick Pierce. It was much through
• 1:07:03
  elimination as anything else. Roy Keane I love.
• 1:07:06
  Roy Keane, I have a tremendous amount of respect
• 1:07:09
  for the man's ability to hold a grudge. Um, and
• 1:07:12
  he's funny. Like that's the other thing that
• 1:07:14
  he doesn't get enough credit for. Roy Keane's
• 1:07:15
  legitimately hilarious. Um, and not, not just
• 1:07:18
  unintentionally. So like he's genuinely funny.
• 1:07:21
  So I think he'd be good. Too many of the people
• 1:07:23
  on that list, you wouldn't want to, you couldn't
• 1:07:25
  sit at a dinner with it. So you are kind of like
• 1:07:29
  just finding the last person standing that wouldn't
• 1:07:32
  be painful. Yeah, we do have a couple of English
• 1:07:35
  listeners out there. So just plug up your ears
• 1:07:37
  for that answer with the Easter rising reference.
• 1:07:40
  Uh, okay. That's I'm out of questions, Andy.
• 1:07:42
  Any more from you, mate? I am too. We've timed
• 1:07:45
  that incredibly nicely. Um, awesome to have a
• 1:07:49
  chat. We're going to do something that we love
• 1:07:51
  to do when we get guests on the show and that's
• 1:07:53
  the thunder down under Aussie quiz. So Alan,
• 1:07:56
  I've got three questions loaded up for you. We'll
• 1:07:59
  try and give some. Uh, some helpful multiple
• 1:08:03
  choice to not make you feel like too much of
• 1:08:05
  a goose if your level of obscure Aussie trivia
• 1:08:09
  isn't up to, uh, kind of curious what my baseline
• 1:08:12
  is on this now. Yeah. Well, like everyone, I
• 1:08:16
  guess usually get zero out of three. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:08:18
  That's a pretty standard and that's kind of what
• 1:08:21
  we're aiming for, but, um, it's not anything
• 1:08:24
  really, I never would give anything that you
• 1:08:26
  could kind of think to research. So any kind
• 1:08:29
  of. preparation would have been just a waste
• 1:08:31
  of time really. I'll kick things off and test
• 1:08:36
  your knowledge of AFL and all -island Gaelic
• 1:08:42
  football. Of all the Irishmen to have played
• 1:08:45
  in both the Australian Football League and obviously
• 1:08:50
  all -island as well, what sets Tige Kennelly
• 1:08:53
  and Conor McKenna apart from the rest? Are they
• 1:08:58
  the only people that have won championships in
• 1:09:00
  both all islands and whatever the AFL equivalent
• 1:09:03
  is? Bang on. So, Ty Canelli won in 2005 with
• 1:09:08
  the Sydney Swans and with County Kerry in 09
• 1:09:11
  and McKenna with Tyrone in 21 and Brisbane in
• 1:09:15
  2024. One from one. That's a good start. Sam
• 1:09:19
  is off to a flyer. All right. Here's your question
• 1:09:22
  from me, Sam. If you flew directly from Sydney
• 1:09:26
  on our east coast to Perth on our west coast,
• 1:09:30
  the flight time is roughly the equivalent of
• 1:09:32
  flying between which two US cities, and there
• 1:09:36
  are four options. Is it A, New York to Boston?
• 1:09:40
  B, Los Angeles to Las Vegas? C, New York City
• 1:09:46
  to Los Angeles? Or D, Chicago to Miami? I think
• 1:09:54
  New York to LA is the only one long enough. Ding,
• 1:09:59
  ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. It's about
• 1:10:01
  a five hour flight covering roughly 2000 miles
• 1:10:04
  of mostly empty outback. Andy Sam is on the precipice
• 1:10:09
  here becoming our second guest ever to get three
• 1:10:11
  out of three pressure is on Sammy boy. Here we
• 1:10:14
  go. I've set the bar very low and you've launched
• 1:10:18
  over it thus far. Okay. So Third and final question,
• 1:10:22
  this one pertains to Australia's coat of arms,
• 1:10:26
  in particular, the use of native animals, the
• 1:10:29
  emu and the kangaroo. So Sam, if you could tell
• 1:10:32
  me which of the following is false regarding
• 1:10:36
  these two, sorry, which of the following is false?
• 1:10:41
  Yes, I apologize regarding these two native of
• 1:10:44
  the animals. A, neither can walk backwards. B,
• 1:10:48
  Military intervention was once used against a
• 1:10:51
  large flock of wild emus. Emus cannot fly despite
• 1:10:56
  their large wings. It is illegal to eat either
• 1:11:00
  animal or both can be considered pests in certain
• 1:11:05
  areas with their population swells. I'm looking
• 1:11:09
  for the one that isn't true. Yep. I know that
• 1:11:13
  there was such a thing as the emu wars, so that
• 1:11:16
  is true. Yes. That's impressive, just to know.
• 1:11:20
  He knows these stuffs. I know that they can't
• 1:11:24
  fly, so that's true. Was it? OK. I can imagine
• 1:11:36
  that neither one of them walks backwards, so
• 1:11:38
  that makes that true. What am I? What are the
• 1:11:40
  two left? The other two? Both are considered
• 1:11:42
  pests in certain areas with population swells
• 1:11:45
  and that it is illegal to eat either of them.
• 1:11:49
  I'm going to say it's not illegal to eat either
• 1:11:51
  of them because they can be pests in certain
• 1:11:54
  areas. Excellent. He's gone 353. So that is an
• 1:11:59
  absolutely outstanding way to take on the TDU
• 1:12:03
  quiz, but also to end what has been a real delight
• 1:12:06
  to have you on the show, Sam. Also, Andy, it
• 1:12:08
  just shows... American guests' knowledge of the
• 1:12:11
  world outside of America. Maybe not quite the
• 1:12:13
  same as our European continental guests who maybe
• 1:12:16
  a bit more in the outlook. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:12:18
  Really sort of blending the two, the crossover.
• 1:12:24
  Yeah, Sam, thanks so much for joining us on your
• 1:12:27
  Saturday night. Yeah. Have a, have an awesome
• 1:12:30
  year. Don't forget to chuck that ballot paper
• 1:12:32
  in for Herbert at the back end when, uh, you
• 1:12:35
  know, it's, it's your turn to cast your vote.
• 1:12:38
  Hopefully you're not alone and hopefully it brings
• 1:12:41
  good things for the charge. Yeah, no problem.
• 1:12:44
  Thanks for having me guys. Alrighty. Uh, we'll
• 1:12:47
  be back. We'll see you next time. Thanks again
• 1:12:49
  to Sam. Take it easy. We'll see you next time
• 1:12:51
  on the Thunderdown Under Chargers podcast. River's
• 1:13:18
  back, Piddle's looking, Fiery's got Floyd turning,
• 1:13:21
  got it! Six and a ten, five, high step, touchdown!