Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / NT Police Association President Paul McCue says the NT Government's pay offer is insulting with QLD police to receive an 11 per cent pay rise

Transcript

NT Police Association President Paul McCue says the NT Government's pay offer is insulting with QLD police to receive an 11 per cent pay rise · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: For recent weeks there has been a lot of discussion
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: about the pay freeze which is impacting frontline government workers.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It was a point of contention in the recent Police
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Association survey and today the police associations amping up their
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: calls for change when it comes to the freeze for officers.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: The calls follow a pay deal being struck in Queensland
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: which sees the police set to receive an eleven percent
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: pay rise over three years, plus a payment of up
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to three percent per year if CPI exceeds annual wage increases.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Now in Queensland as well, superannuations also going to be
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: paid on shift allowances for the first time under agreements
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: for both non commissioned and commissioned officers. They'll also receive
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: an extra week off for officers working about half of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the week weekend days in a year, and the agreement
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: is also going to allow officers to choose their district
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: after they've completed a hard to fill rural placement for
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the Queensland Police Service. Now, there's no doubt that it's
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: a massive deal in Queensland. It is expected to cost
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: more than one hundred and forty million.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Dollars a year.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So where are things at when it comes to those
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: negotiations here in the Northern Territory. Well, joining me in
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the studio right now is Paul mchue, the president of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Association.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Paul, Good morning Katie, Thanks so
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: much for your time this morning.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Now, Paul, obviously this issue of pay is becoming a
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: concern across the board for the Northern Territory Government. What's
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the situation from the Northern Territory Police perspective.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, look sadly nothing along the lines of what Queensland
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: have come up with. Sadly, but you know, we're still
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: working really hard on behalf of our members to make
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: the very clear message that what's being put on the
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: table by government at the moment is simply not good enough.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: In fact, it's probably the most insulting offer I've ever
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: seen put on the table for our members of the
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Northern Territory Police. So you're talking many, many years of
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: pay deals and this is a pay freeze extraordinary in
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: the current climate we're in.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: So, Paul, what exactly are the Northern Territory Police after here.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: We've made it clear from the start that we are
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: after a salary rise in real terms.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Now, when you have a look.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: At what's the economic climate we're in right now, We're
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: inflation is at two decade highs, We've got interest rates
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: going through the roof, We've got cost of living pressures
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: all over the place. Now this applies equally to our
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: police as any other member of the community. Now, on
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: top of that, we've got a police force that's losing
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: ten percent of their ranks each and every year. We're
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: talking one hundred and sixty plus officers leaving the force.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: So there's an enormous incentive issue in keeping our police
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: here in the northerner.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: And then how do you think that incentive issue changes
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: when you look at what Queensland's just done for example.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know that it's not that easy.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think to just switch across and go from
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: working in the territory to go and work in another stace.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: But what kind of impact do you reckon that's going
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: to have.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it will certainly impact particularly our young officers.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I would think when you're young, you've got no real
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: commitments here, you're not locked into anything here in the
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Northern Territory, and you suddenly see that pay deal in
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: some of the areas you can work over there in Queensland.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: It is definitely going to impact here in the territory,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: which is really disappointing. Great for Queensland, not so good
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: for the Northern Territory.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I guess even looking at what they're
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: doing in Queensland, I'm assuming that there's a larger number
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: of police officers in Queensland, but it is expected to
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: cost them over one hundred and forty million.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Dollars a year.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's no doubt that any increase in pay
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: for Northern Territory police is going it's going to hit
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: the budget, isn't it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: It's no doubt. I mean, obviously you want people here,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: you've got to pay them. It's as simple as that. Well,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: we're talking about here are sixteen hundred plus members of
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: the Northern Territory Police Force. We know exactly what's going
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: on in our community at the moment. We've got crime
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: issues across the board. I've got youth crime issues, alcohol
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: related harm everywhere, domestic and family violence and it's the
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: police that carries the burden of that community issue. So
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: if you're not going to recognize that work and particularly
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: that work they've done over the last few.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: Years for this community.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Then that sends a very clear message we don't want
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: you to stay, and that's the problem we've got here.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Well, have you met with the Minister responsible?
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: We've asked to meet with Minister Paul Kirby's Minister for
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Public Employment. He has not reached out to speak with
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: us at all since we started these negotiations.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: I couldn't be more disappointed with that.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Now he's the Minister Responsible and he's handbled that responsibility
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: to the Commissioner for Public Employment and Commissioner for Police,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: yet we are still not being afforded the opportunity to
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: meet with him.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: The Northern Territory government have been at pains to say
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: that they're very much negotiating with all of the frontline
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: workers that are obviously involved in this paid dispute. So
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: what you're saying to me is that you've not even
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: been able to get.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: A meeting with the minister.
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  Speaker 4: No, that's correct, extraordinary, isn't it?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: It is quite extraor I mean, so, how are you
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: meant to negotiate here?
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  Speaker 3: Well, we meet with the Commissioner for Public Employments, representatives
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: and the Commissioner for police representatives. But when you're talking
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: about a pay deal that has never been put before
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: our officers that I can recall in terms of a
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: pay freeze, and the Minister Responsible sends back a three
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: sentence letter. Since February of this year, we've only once
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: had that and it simply says you can keep negotiating
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: good faith with my representatives. I'm not, clearly not interested
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: in talking to you now.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I'm keen to know is does the Northern Territory Police
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Commissioner support this pay freeze.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: He has signed the letter with the Commissioner for Public
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Employment for the pay frees so that's his position.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: So yes, clearly.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So I mean, how is that sort of how do
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: you think that comes into play given that recent survey.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've obviously got a situation where eighty seven
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: point nine percent as I understand it, of Northern Territory
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: police respondents said that they were dissatisfied with the pay
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: for But then you've also got seventy nine point seven
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: who said that they didn't have confidence in the Northern
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Territories Police Commissioner.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: It's an extraordinary position to take.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Now, obviously there is a pay pay freeze policy in
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: place by government what the government are saying and by default,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: the commissioner by signing those letters is saying that that's
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: what we're offering you.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: That is in no way an incentive to.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Keep our police here and a very extraordinary position for
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: the commissioner to take.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Well on that, where are things that since that survey
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: was released showing that the majority of police don't have
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: confidence in the commissioner?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Are you meeting with him regularly?
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: Yes, we are every week.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: I made that commitment of conference this year when he
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: attended a panel session with the deputy commissioners was clear
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: and no on certain terms how they representatives felt, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: since that time we have been meeting weekly, which has
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: been a positive and in fact we're meeting with him
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: this morning as well to continue those discussions. So you know,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: all those issues that we're raised in that survey have
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: been provided to him directly.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Well, and what's the message going to be not only
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: for the Police Commissioner but also for the Minister responsible
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: obviously with these negotiations with the pays.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Well, it's quite clear.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, when you're looking at a deals around a
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: country and it's not just queens, then We've got New
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: South Wales Western Australia as well that have increased their
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: offers to their police officers, including a cost of living
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: cash bonus. You know, it's quite clear that we are,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: I guess, the laughing stock of the country when it
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: comes to recognizing, you know, what police are doing for
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  Speaker 3: this community and putting something to them that makes them
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: want to stay.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So all right, well, so we're going to have to
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: wait and see. I guess where these scends like. The
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: government seems to have some real issues on their hands
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: right now when you talk about all of our frontline
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: workers wanting to negotiate these you know, their pays and there.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Being no real movement.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: But I don't think that they're going to be able
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, to remain the way that
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: they are with this freeze in place.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: No.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's fine to say we don't have
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of money in the budget, but when you've
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: got cost of living pressures that we have at the moment,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: coupled with an attrition rate that is in double figures,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: you've got to come to the table with a reasonable offer,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: and they have not done that to this point in time.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: We will continue to lobby hard on behalf of our members.
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  Speaker 3: They deserve it. They've given a lot for this community
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  Speaker 3: in the last three to four years and we want
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: to see recognition for that, such as the offer that's
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Queensland has.
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  Speaker 4: Been put to Paul.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I do want to speak to you about some of
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: the other issues that we're experiencing right around the Northern
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Territory at the moment, and you did touch on it.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Just a few moments ago.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: That issue of crime now in Central Australia. It's been
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: raging for quite some time, but you'd have to say
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that it's reached fever, Pitch. I think over the last
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: week or so. There's even some photos on the Action
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: for Alis page today of what looks as though it's
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: been a ram raid at a takeaway outlet or at
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: a you know, at.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: An outlet there in Alice Springs.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Now, we also spoke too to Tourism Central Australia who
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: have said they need urgent action from a police perspective.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: How are things going in Alice Springs.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: Look, it's tough.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, for a long time Central Australia
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: has suffered from ol cohorelated harm at youth crime issues
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: as well as many other factors. I was there last
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: week and a business had been broken into yet again,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I think for the fortieth time in three years, thirty
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: five thousand dollars worth of damage. And this seems to
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: be a common occurrence obviously, every single day. And what
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: we're seeing down there is our police doing an incredible
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: job with what they've got, but they simply can't do
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: it all.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Paul, what are they saying? What are the police saying?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Because you know their frontline, we know that we're hearing
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of talk about people sort of wanting to
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: see a greater police presence walking through the streets and
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: through the mall.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So what are officers saying to you?
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Look, they feeling very frustrated at the moment. Obviously, they
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: want to do everything they can. They want to be
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: out there proactively policing. They want to be seen day
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: and night for the community. But quite frankly, their requirements
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: of the job these days are so tough, you know,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: and there's so much going on, you know, not just
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: in our springs but across the board that they're just
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: feeling like their hands are tight at the moment, and
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: you know, they just want to they just want to
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: see more boots on the ground. But of course at
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: the moment they've only got what they've got.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Now, what about this Stronger Future legislation? In your opinion,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: hasn't had an impact. I mean, obviously we've still got
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming Pali's on those bottle shops, don't we.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look we do.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: We've got an issue in terms of retention of those
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: officers please liquor inspectors. As you could imagine, Katie, it's
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: probably not the most desirable job going around out there.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: In fact, I think we're down to about fifteen when
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: we should have forty one there in Ourae Springs. So
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: obviously the shortfall is therefore picked up by constables and
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: therefore taking more officers off the beat. But what we've
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: seen since Stronger Futures is some pretty alarming statistics. Really,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I've got a stat here for you. The seventy days
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: since Stronger Futures ceased, we've seen around two hundred and
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: seventeen refusals per day, or fifteen thousand in that period.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: The similar period prior to that, just forty eight per day,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: or three thousand, eight hundred and ninety five percent of
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: those refusals are for intoxication. So wow, that's an enormous
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: amount of impact to that community and of course the
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: safety of our members.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: And so then when you look at that, I mean,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: two hundred and seventeen refusals per day, say, yeah, that's unbelievable.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: We've only got about nine outlets down there in our springs,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: So those statistics are alarming, and particularly when you take
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: into account what alcohol related harm does to our community.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: So whilst there might be a choice now for some
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: individuals in our community, the flow on effects have been devastating.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: And then though, Paul, do you think that what you're seeing,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you've got two hundred and seventeen refusals
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: per day, do you think that then that is why
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: you're seeing a bit of an increase in like those
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: takeaway outlets and places like that being targeted in terms
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: of theft.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: There's no doubt obviously those smaller, you know, liquor outlets
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: down there in Alice Springs have seen a dramatic increase
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: in refusals and approaches by intoxicated people to purchase alcohol.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: But of course, you know, the more alcohol in the community,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: the more risk there is for crime. To increase as well,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: and of course the safety of our community is at risk.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Can I just go back to those other numbers of
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the palis, So you said that there's fifteen of those
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: palis on the bottle shops at the moment there's usually
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: forty five.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Is that right?
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: They were funded in Alice Springs for around forty one or.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: Forty two parlies.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, but they've always had issues retaining them, and of
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: course that then flows onto the constables to pick up
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: the slave.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: So now I guess, presumably rather than our constables, you know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: doing those visual patrols in the streets of Alice Springs,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: they're having to stand outside bottle shops.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: They are, and I think it's probably time, since this
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: legislation has been amended or been removed, to have a
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: look at that model.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: That model for liquor inspectors to be at the bottle
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: shops came in after the Riley Review was taken place
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: in around twenty seventeen. Of course, with the legislation changing,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: it's almost you know, there's no point essentially having our
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: police warned police officers standing there. Now they could be
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: out there doing other work. We could convert those pari
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: positions to constable positions, and how about we put the
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: onus back on the actual business owners who are selling
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: the alcohol into our communities to actually pick up the slack,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: get some extra security and do their bit.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Hey, I want to move along just very quickly, because
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: we also know that the issue of youth crime has
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: been a major concern right around the Northern territory. What
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: impact do police officers who are speaking to you through
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: the union obviously, what are they saying that the impact
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: is having with youths across the territory right now?
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Look, it's a major problem.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously we don't want to see kids in custody,
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: We don't want to see children destined for a life
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: of crime. But police need options, you know, and it
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: shouldn't just be for the police officers to pick up
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: these pieces. We've got to have other agencies and non
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: government organizations doing their bit, and otherwise it'll be a
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: case of what are the police stopped doing? If you
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: want us to keep doing all of this, then what
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: else are we going to stop?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: What's going to happen though, Paul as well, you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: there are obviously concerns about raising the age of criminal responsibility.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Now we've got a situation very regularly, so it's not
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: even occasionally that we're hearing about sort of ten year
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: olds or eleven year olds engaged in pretty serious issues
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of crime. And what do you think is going to
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: happen if they do indeed raise the age of criminal responsibility?
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, this is obviously a national push and obviously
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: some of our most serious crimes are being committed by
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: you know, nine, ten eleven year old children. You know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: what we don't want to see is the victims, you know,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: rights be set aside, and effectively there will be nothing
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: in place to deal with those young offenders. And it's
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: generally a small cohort of really serious young offenders that
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: we need to to deal with. And if we come
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: into vene and divert those children to other options because
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: the age of criminal responsibility has risen, that's not good
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: for our community and not good for the children.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: So where from your perspective, where are things at at
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the moment with this push to raise the age of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: criminal responsibility? I mean, the government's given no firm date,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: but they have said in the past under Michael Gunner
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that it was going to happen before the next election.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I mean that's edging closer and closer it is.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Look, I've got no doubt based on our conversations that
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: it's certainly something high on the agenda for government.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: I have no doubt it's going to be coming in
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: sooner rather than later.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's going to be quite a concern to
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners this morning. Paul Mchughe, president
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: of the Police Association, we better leave it. They're always
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: good to catch up. Thank you so much for your
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: time this morning.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Good on you. Thanks Caattie.