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Ep 5. Who is a band? · Keeping It Relevant

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's up, everybody?
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're back here again, keeping relevant.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's Alex, Tony, John.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, today's episode, we are gonna change it up now.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think John brought up a decent idea about bands and how he wanted to do this episode over a certain topic he thought was pretty relevant as of right now.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, John.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, do we want to talk about relevant news real quick?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, probably go over relevant news.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's fair.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, relevant.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so actually, I have a really I have a really wild relevant news.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um well actually, since we'll mix it up a bit, I'll do it a little bit different.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: One thing we didn't talk about, uh, Cody was there for when we watched it.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: You were not, but it is something iconic in the entertainment industry, and that's specifically in wrestling with AAA or AAA lucha libre wrestling with El Grande Americano versus the original El Grande Americano mask versus mask match.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I bring it up for something iconic is because as of today, it is the highest ranked match in professional wrestling history.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So pretty solid.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I don't know, Alex, do you know Cody was there when we saw it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was during one of our game nights, and we like stopped playing the game to like watch this match.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't sure if you knew anything about the match or anything.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh like just the highlights.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I knew.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: I knew very little about what led up to it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just knew it was during a PPL.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that's pretty much it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it was during a AAA PPL.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Really quick, for those in America, if you want to start exploring AAA Lucha Libre, which I highly recommend, you can actually watch it for free uh either live or later on YouTube.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can either go to WWE YouTube channel and they have the English uh translations on there in like real time, or you can just go to the AAA or AAA uh wrestling page on YouTube and they have it for free on there too.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they have two options to watch it for free.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um for free.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, right?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it was a PLE, but because it's on YouTube, we don't need to pay because America, I guess.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yes, it was the uh Knight of the Champions or Noche de la Champions, I think is how you say it.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Don't judge me for that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um basically in a nutshell.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to nutshell.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cody, can you nutshell this match?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I start talking about it, I'm gonna go on the whole lore of El Grande Americano the same way I went on the whole lore of Godzilla when you asked when it when you didn't ask about Godzilla, I just told you.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know that I can't I don't know enough about that specific match going into it or anything with it really, as it like got started, so I'm not really that familiar with what happened in it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_05: We watched the match, but we were in the middle of board game night, too, so I don't have remember what was going on.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well well, what about what do you know about the El Grande Americano character?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_05: From what you've told me, the OG one, which we now know as Chad Gables, since we can actually say that since he's been unmasked, was an American pretending to be a Mexican.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Pretending to be an American.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: Sorry, I left out the last part of that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_05: From what I understand, with the now El Grande Americano, it's a German pretending to be American, pretending to be Mexican, pretending to be an American.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_05: If I have that correct, but I don't know if that's accurate.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: So we got a situation where there's a dude that's playing another dude disguised as another dude playing another dude.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, that's exactly what we have going on.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'll t I'll talk about it real quick.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, basically, a grande Americano was a character that was created by Chad Gable.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I am so sorry.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was created a little more than a year ago.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I was there in Omaha, Nebraska when he won his first champion.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, before wrestling matches, they have dark matches, and they have what's called the speed champion.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And El Grande Americano won the speed champion against Dragon Lee, actually, in Omaha, Nebraska.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was there when I saw when that happened.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I saw that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was incredible.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Chad Gable got injured, and Kaiser Ludwig took over as El Grande Americano.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, excuse me, the thing is about it is that this was a character Chad made that when WWE became partners with AAA Lucha Libre, uh, they loved El Grande Americano and became like the new face of Mexico.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: This guy's kissing babies and everything.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Chad Gable's now better.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Back in February, during the Russell League event, uh, the Royal Rumble, um, what ended up happening was El Grande Americano came out, and then all of a sudden, Chad Gable's El Grande Americano came out, and they had this whole instance of who was the real one, who was the fake one.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would love to get into it more, but eventually, in Mexico, the Knight of Champions, they decided to do mask versus mask.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you know anything about lucha wrestling, that's a big deal because your mask you're not your identity, your mask is your identity.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when you lose your mask, you lose your identity, you lose everything that made you that luchador.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they fought.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was an incredible fight.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I really like whoever helped write the fight, and I don't know if they were involved in this either, but almost in the well, in the beginning of the match, not quite in the middle, but at the beginning of the match, they both rip each other's masks, and they rip the top forehead part, because El Grande Americano's gimmick is that he has a piece of metal that he puts in his forehead of a mask and headbutts you and knocks you out.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it was fun to see how they both knew each other's gimmicks, and so they both rip each other's masks at the forehead so that they couldn't do it to them.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and just that type of writing and that type of choreography, especially in this story, to me, just shows how serious uh WWE is taking Lucha Wrestling, but also keeping up with the traditions of it too.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this match went on for this match went on longer than we thought it it went on for.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_05: I think I don't know if we've ever looked at the actual runtime, but I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a half-hour, 45-minute match.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean from what I've watched, obviously I'm newer into the WWE scene, but a lot of them, even in their PLEs, I mean, we've had some of the women's PLEs that are like five, six minutes.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_05: So to have one that long of a match, I haven't seen one even in WWE yet go that long.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: So it was I mean, it was an intense match.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: Obviously, the whole wrestling's fake, whatever, but like you can't fake the getting smacked by a chair or falling through a tank and stuff.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_05: So I mean just to take the hits they're taking for that long is pretty impressive.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and then on top of that, like, because it's lucha wrestling, there's a lot of acrobats to it, and there's a lot of flying and flips, and uh every wrestler will tell you, sure, it's like quote unquote whatever fake.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, but from the words of The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar, you can't fake gravity.
• 8:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Gravity's very real.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what ended up happening when El Grande Americano Chad, so I guess the original, came out, people were swearing at him, people were yelling at him, people were throwing things at him, everyone was flipping him off and saying horrible things to him.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: He loses the match.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler, whatever.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_05: He That's why we know it's Chad.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: He uh, and that's the only reason we know it's Chad.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um Chad Gable uh says his very beautiful speech, basically thanking Mexico and Lucha Wrestling and just everybody for um accepting him and accepting his character that he created.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was a sad thing, too.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: He left when this character was still fairly new, and then when he came back, this character's like the face of Mexico now.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I also thought it was really cool for uh TKO to be like, hey, let's we're gonna give you back your gimmick that you created, and we're gonna fly with it, and then we're gonna give it the perfect send-off.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this really shows, shut up, Timu, and this really shows the respect that um Mexico, like this the Mexican culture, the Lucha culture, versus the American culture, and I'm not trying to trash talk nothing, but it's just what it is.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: When he came out and everyone was trashing him, after he gave a speech and he left, everyone was giving him hugs, everyone was applauding him, everyone was giving him high fives, everyone saying such positive things to Chad, because it was the respect that they had for the gimmick and they had for the character, but also for the character to be done, and the respect that Chad gave back to them as well.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: It when I saw it was like a near-perfect score for wrestling, and it's right now the highest score, beating out Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, which is also another near-perfect match, I I I could do nothing but agree and be like, yes, this really is the greatest match of all time.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's I've been watching wrestling for well over 20 years.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's the greatest match I have ever seen.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've seen a lot of great matches.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I've been to a lot of great matches.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've even been to SmackDown when it was all just a dark match because Raw was going on in the city next to it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they'll do that sometimes.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the matches I saw there were incredible.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, it there's just so it's still entertainment, and I was like, we need to talk about this, or at least mention it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I tip my hat to both El Grande Americano and Chad Gable.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: I tip my hat to Triple A for doing this, uh to the Undertaker, because I guess he's the creative lead for AAA.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and he he even mentioned once that he's trying to be so respectful to tradition for this, and I think this is a great example of how serious Undertaker is taking his job here, and how yes, they are keeping it to tradition.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, very recently, like two weeks ago, Rey Masterio uh became the new general manager of AAA Wrestling, and I think between him and The Undertaker, uh we've already seen incredible stuff.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're going to see more incredible stuff.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Damien Priest, last week, it was shown that Damian Priest is the new wrestler joining Triple A Wrestling, and I cannot be more excited about that going on.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh anyways, that that's my thing right now for keeping it relevant.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of other keeping relevant stuff, but I think for the new Okay, no, I got one more.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've got one more thing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Give me one more minute.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, Cody, do you have any more comments about the AAA or anything like that?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_05: Uh the only thing I would say is like a slight disclaimer.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: If you don't do blood, maybe skip his post-match speech because he had a I don't know if it was a big cut, but obviously anybody that knows anything about how you bleed, your face bleeds a lot.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: And after the match, Chad takes off his mask and then decides to rub his head right where he's cut, and by the end of it, there's just blood running down his face.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_05: It's not gruesome because we under like, again, if you know anything about how your face bleeds, we uh you get it bleeds a lot.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_05: But if you can't stand blood, maybe skip that part and just listen to the audio.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was a bloody match too, and the people that showed up in the match too that got involved was awesome.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, oh, actually, if you look at the storyline though, what's crazy?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: We wouldn't have any of this if Dominic Mysterio, wow.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Dominic Mysterio, um uh didn't hate his dad and wanted to get rid of luchador so that he could be the king of the luchadors.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: I did not realize anything with uh El Grande had anything to do with Dom, honestly.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh Chad Gable was like, I have a luchador problem, and Dominic was like, I could help you with this luchador problem, and sent him to Mexico, where in the streets of Mexico, someone gave him a box and he looked inside of the box, and then like a week or two later, El Grande shows up, and it's cheerly, it's it's clearly Chad in a mask.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I thought they were gonna do this thing where like when Chad puts on the mask, he turns into a luchador, but with the mask off, he's like kind of like a Jacqueline Hyde thing.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: But uh no, they really kept it that like Chad Gable is separate than El Grande.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Cody knows, uh, I buy into the gimmicks 100%.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So when people are like Chad Gable's El Grande, I'm like, no, we already saw them both in the same place at the same time.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you mean?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, you know, this and that.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like I even pushed like we should have an El Grande versus Chad Gable match, or uh when when Kaiser took over and like Kaiser got in trouble uh for stuff in Florida, uh, Cody, you were like, I'm surprised they were he was able to make it, and I was like, why?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he was and you were like, well, because of El Grande, and I was like, what does Chad Gable have to do with El Grande?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the look you gave me was freaking priceless.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways, uh let me move on real quick.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: One more thing because Alex, like you said, we're doing a music uh type of podcast.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh one I have one thing that's music that's also recent.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh earlier this month, on the 6th of July, I'm a liar, the 6th of June, so last month, uh AFI had their 20th anniversary of their biggest album to date and made them kind of who the big pop stars that they are now, or rock stars, pop stars, whatever.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Pop uh uh uh what's that called?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: The uh whatever.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, the social no uh pop culture.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Made them the pop culture icons they are.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they had the 20th anniversary of the December Underground album.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh behind me, actually, as no one can see except for Alex and Cody, I have one of the albums.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: They made three thousands of of that album specifically on vinyl.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: You sure I can see?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's nope, because you're blind.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um I have all four vinyls that they released, including this limited edition one.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have number 284.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, 228, sorry.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: 428.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have 428 because I was so close to 420.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it is.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I I had the numbers, didn't have the right order.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, um, yeah, of number 428 out of 3,000.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big deal, though, because not only is this the most important album, so would say, in AFI's discography, but they only made this album in vinyl 20 years ago.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when they were out, they were out.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you try to get this album in vinyl, like last year or even two years ago, it would cost you anywhere between$130 and$500.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So when I when I saw that they announced it, I'm I'm part of an AFI Discord.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Which there's an AFI Discord, guys, if you want to get more into that.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: But um you guys as in the audience, I don't care about you, Cody.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_04: I was more gonna say there's a Discord for everything.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I saw on the Discord, I saw in all the other group things that I am a part of that they were releasing this vinyl.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: The data released, I ordered all of it.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna say how much I spent.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh earlier this week, I finally got my last two vinyls, so I officially have the all four designs of the AFI December Underground vinyls.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very important album.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was also iconic in the uh 2006 to 2010 era of life because that's when the emo scene was really big, and the hairstyle and the attitude and all that stuff.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And AFI was one of the pioneers of uh mainstream emo, not of emo.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're the pioneers of hardcore, believe it or not, but not of emo.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as it being mainstream, them and the used, and like Green Day and Take You Back Sunday, those guys were like, we're we're emo.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_05: Blink 182.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Blink 182 was always pop punk.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: Blink I would have never said was emo.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: They they had the emo look, but like um 740.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: 741 is um 741.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Some oh, Sum 41.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_05: Uh they're maybe it's just pop punk.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_05: I wouldn't have ever said like Sum 41 was emo either.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_05: Just one with the music they made, and two, I mean, the look alone.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_05: It wasn't emo.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's just it's your classic pop punk.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_05: Because at the time I wouldn't say pop punk was a genre yet.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_05: It might not have been, but I also wasn't called it emo.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh pop punk was a genre in the 90s.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Was it?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, there's a lot down that road, and I would love to talk about um AFI and the actual impact they've had on music between them and Green Day and Corn.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's a whole nother thing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's all yeah, that's a whole other thing.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: But um, anyways, that's all that's all the relevant news I got.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna talk about box office or anything right now.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um Odyssey came out this weekend, I'll say that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's that's all I stuff for keeping it relevant.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So let me know what you guys think about all these subjects, and uh, of course, comment and let us know.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, alright, Alex, you you got the floor?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: You did forget one.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Our favorite doctor passed away.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, do you want to talk about that this episode or next one?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we can talk about it more then, but he did pass away.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: CM Neil, R.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: P.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Super sad, but okay, Alex, take it away.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, so John texted me like Tuesday.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe even Monday.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: When did you text me?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um Monday?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, we'll go with that.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: And he brought this idea because I had a feeling he was listening to one of his favorite bands, which is Lincoln Park, and he got this idea to bring up on the podcast about bands' identities after they change the lead singer.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or just their identity after they make a change in general.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but in my head, I went more lead singers and knew who you were talking about.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, of course, yeah, that's a fair one.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_05: Even out of that, um, usually the lead singer is more the identity.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, if a band changes a drummer or a bass player or something, you typically don't notice as much.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, if you follow them a band really hard, you'll pick up on it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_05: But otherwise, like, outside of like, say, Slipknot, I don't know, like, if there's a band that's changed a drummer that, like, I would have even noticed.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I could argue Rush, but I mean, they never changed until, you know, maybe recently, but I don't even know then.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's because he's dead.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, but I don't know if they're still doing anything.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they're still doing stuff.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Out of drummers, I can only think of like things that other people came in and did.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like Jonathan Davis going in and doing drums for uh a couple, like, collaborations.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, remember back in the day in like the late 2000s where they had this weird thing where they would mix up some rock with rap, like coming undone with it, with which was lean with it, rock with it, and coming undone.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one like I thought of Jonathan Davis and then uh Blink182.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Travis Parker.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Travis Parker did that too on a couple of like, I think Lil Wayne songs.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: But outside of that, I don't know of any drummers actually changing.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's kind of the reason I think that like the lead singer's the thing that makes the most sense with the identity of the band, because that's what you think of.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_05: They're the front man, that's who you're gonna associate with them.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and what this all spurred from, which I'm willing to put a lot of money on the table to say that John was listening to Lincoln.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Park when this idea came about.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so do you do you want to know if if that guess is correct or not?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I'll I want to know.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, I was not listening to Lincoln Park when I Okay Um When Okay, so when I pitched the idea, no, I wasn't listening to Lincoln Park.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: When I thought of the idea, I was also not listening to Lincoln Park.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was reminiscing to when I saw Lincoln Park last year with my family and my kids and whatnot.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was listening, actually, ironically enough, I think I was listening to AFI when I was reminiscing.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I was just I would love to tell my AFI stories here on the show, but not right now.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I was I was thinking about AFI and my stories there, and then I was thinking about oh, what was the favorite concert I've been to?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And right now it's Lincoln Park, not only because of they're my favorite band in the whole world, but because I went with my kids and my and my wife.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking about that, and then I remember I'm gonna call out Cody just because he's here, but everyone I freaking know uh was like, was it really that good because it wasn't Chester?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's when I was like, we should probably talk about that specific comment, but with other bands too, not just Lincoln Park.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just think because of the mainstream of things, Lincoln Park is like the biggest talk right now of this topic.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that's fair.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: And don't get us wrong, we are not bashing or doing anything negative towards the bands.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Unless it's my chemical romance, I I I will be bashing, yes.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Are they ever gonna come up in this?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_05: Because their identity hasn't.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's just how much I don't like my chemical romance.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well I was like, what?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's just how much I don't like them.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I say we pick a few off the top of our heads that we know, and then we can go into what we think the identity, if it's changed at all, or if it needed to change, or if they should have just gone in a different route altogether.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I think we throw Lincoln Park on there.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Another good one that I think would go on there for a different reason would be Journey.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so really quick before we get into this, are we only thinking lead singers or just the band in general?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you know more about the background of it, I will I'll allow the example.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have like bands where like where they were in the beginning versus where they are now is completely different, but they know people know the sound, like associate the sound and the artistry now because of that change versus things in the past.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_05: So with that, I mean Oh, sorry.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_05: I guess we could talk Bring Me the Horizon because out of like at least bands I've listened to, they have their sound might be the one I know the most that has changed.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: They started off super heavy, I mean almost like death metal, to where they then got arguably pretty pop punky.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_05: Some could just say like they're leaning pop, but I mean there's too many like actual distortions and things within the music to call it straight pop.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_05: And now they're starting to get back to the death metal sounds.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_05: Their sound has just kind of widely gone all over the place.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_05: They've even put out a really experimental album.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if anybody's listens to it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's weird.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_05: I don't recommend it, but that's one we could talk about as well.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Was that due to because um because the the lineup changed, or was it due because they themselves changed?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because Lincoln Park went through the same thing, but that's because they themselves wanted to play a different style of music.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: It had nothing to do with their lineup.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So is that what you're looking up right now?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, on that one.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_05: I don't believe the lineup really changed that much, but I'll have to double check that real quick.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Which one were you gonna bring out?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, with like sound different?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, the you said that you wanted to bring a band in that where they started as something completely different, made all the changes, and now they sound to what we know of at them as today.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what band would be So So the first band, and I'm I swear I am the I swear there was not a lot of thought into me naming this band right now based off of everything I've just been talking about.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: But okay, so the first band I'm thinking of is AFI.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I promise you I'm not just trying to talk about AFI in this episode.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I promise.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: This I should have thought about this better.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: But in um Black Sail Sunset was when they first got Jade Puget as their guitarist.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um they've been through two different bass players.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: The only original people from AFI from the very beginning is Davey Havoc for lead singer and Adam Carson as the drummer.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else, not even close to the first or the original.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um when Hunter became the bass player, like, that was fun, but like um shut the Shut Your Mouth album came out, and it still sounded like uh the Stay Fashionable album and everything in between.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't until when Jade showed up when he started writing because what happened was they got back from tour, their drummer, I think they got not their drummer, their guitarist, I think they got rid of their guitarist.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Davy sat down and was like, be our new guitarist.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Jade said yes, and that moment they started writing Black Sail Sunset.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he started doing the reverse power chords, the everything in like E minor and A minor and everything like that.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the and the dynamics and the harmonics and whatnot, and on top of that, the uh not harmonics, but the uh uh octave chords, and then the full finger bar chords.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: None of that was AFI until uh Jade Puget showed up.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: From that moment to now, because then you have Art of Drowning, All Hollows Eve, Sing the Sorrow, which is what really shot them up there, December Underground, which really shot them up there, and then ever since then, um all because, and and they've said this, all because Jade came up with his sound to match with what AFI was doing.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh before AFI was just straight hardcore and trying to be more punk rock at the same time, Jade showed up and it was like they could do it all.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Especially now because Jade does a lot of electronic stuff too, so they're incorporating that into their newer music.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think Jade was either the third or fourth guitarist, too, and Hunter was either their second or third.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and if it was just about Davey and Adam, they would still be sounding the same as Stay Fashionable, but they don't.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't until Black Sail Sunset when they're like, We finally found our sound, we finally found who we are, and it's it's just been that ever since.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that example, it no one died or anything like that.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: They were just, and they were still, I mean, they toured Europe.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think they actually got back from the Europe tour when they were like, hey Jade, you're our guitarist now.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they've been on many tours, they've already toured Europe, they've they're very much known as one of the pioneers of hardcore in the California scene.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like they needed Jade, but because of that is is why we're they are now, in my opinion.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my example for one for like a band where um because my whole point of this was like it's not the members that make the band the band, it's the music that makes the band the band.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, if it was about the members, I'd be like, well, forget anything before Black Sail Sunset, uh, because I didn't know AFI prior to that, and that's just hogwash.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not hogwash, it's still really good, and it's still AFI, it's just not what I would call like established AFI.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my thing.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if you guys have any thoughts on that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I think with AFI I can see your point, because I mean, a sound can change, and sometimes it's received either well or very poorly.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, hell, just talking about Lincoln Park earlier, I mean, we know even before Chester died, I mean, people were kind of iffy on them changing their sound.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, when they put out heavy, it was it was pretty poppy.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_05: So, I mean, it was a huge change from what we knew from Meteora and Hybrid Theory.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: Now, if you followed them more than just those two, I'm sure you saw the change coming more.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: Those were the two albums I really know from them, because I didn't follow them crazy hard.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_05: But I think for AFI, that I think makes sense, though.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_05: Is it the sound just evolved to where they finally got to what is their sound as a band.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, members change, things happen.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, and that'll naturally things are gonna change, and I mean, hell, the problem with if you're going based on just original members is how many bands are original anymore.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, there's not a lot.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, hell, even if you go back, I mean my mom and I watched Foreigner live at a concert.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like, nobody original is still in Foreigner at this point, but if you listen, you would never know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_05: They sound just like you expect Foreigner to sound.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that that really begs the question for me of like because I and again, I don't know why Lincoln Park was so special for this question, but it was like, you know, people were like, are they really Lincoln Park?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's Emily now.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's like, did you see Foreigner?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you see somebody that played, or did you just see the best foreigner cover band in the world?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And but but like, and and I'm kind of asking that as like devil's advocate, because for me, you saw Foreigner, and for me, I saw Lincoln Park, but I know for other people it's different.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess like, what do you think about that aspect as well of like music?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you see Foreigner, or did you just see a really, really good cover band?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think that's where it gets a little if like dicey on the whole thing, because like obviously Foreigner being like a classic rock band coming out in the 70s, like so few of them actually keep the original guys and keep going the way like Metallica has.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's natural, to be fair, very few of them also have quite as many changes as Foreigner has had at the same time.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, Queen is basically the original guys, obviously, minus Freddy, and technically one of the bass player isn't there, but I think at this point they just run as a three-piece.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_05: They never actually replaced them.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_05: I think the thing with that makes it because I'm one of those people that argues, like, is it really Lincoln Park now?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_05: I think the thing with that one is foreigner, queen, whoever that we could bring up right now, it still sounds like them.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_05: The members have changed, even the lead singer, but they happen to get people that can fill in enough that like it still sounds like them.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's the argument with Lincoln Park, is like Emily's not even close to Chester and never could be, like, just naturally, like her voice as a female just could not be what Chester was.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's what throws everybody off, is it's like this is like you're still calling yourselves Lincoln Park, but at the end of the day, like musically, the drums, the guitar, all that stuff still sounds right.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_05: But vocally, it's not even close.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: But Mike's still there, like vocally, Mike is there.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: You're not wrong, but from what I like, from what I've heard, like, it seemed like the newer stuff involved him on vocals less and less.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like, it almost seemed like the original stuff had him the most, and the further, the more they were a thing, like it didn't seem like we had Mike in as many vocal spots.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So whoever said that clearly only listened to like two songs on that album.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he this is probably the most involved I've heard of Mike in an album.
• 35:06
  unknown: Is it?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because not only is he rapping in almost every song, he's also singing and doing harmonies too in those songs as well, kind of like he did in the uh Black Sunset and in the Hunting Party album.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_05: But like more of a subtle thing where you don't like an average guy might not pick up on the fact that that might as much.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: If if an average listener, like like because like so like example, like we're movie goers, so we pick up on things in movies more than the average moviegoer, if the average listener to music were to hear any of those songs, excuse me, I could definitely understand them being like, where's Mike in this song?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: But right away I'd be like, Mike's in every song.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, for me, and like they are my number one band, um, I could hear him in every song.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because it was like those albums in between.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh I forgot where else I was going.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Alex, what what do you got going on over there?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you would do you have any bands or anyone that you can think of right now with this conversation?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I have two.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: So the they're both old school, and their original rendition of Queen didn't have Freddie Mercury in it.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_05: No, but that's the only version we know.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: But do we?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because they were together in London bars and Paris bars doing their gigs overseas as I w I thought they were Queen, but then Freddie was met and said I could do a better sound and join the band.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if it was I don't know if they were called Queen at the time.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'd have to double check.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_05: But it I guess if you were in that scene, you would have known them beforehand, but the mass populace doesn't know Queen before Freddie got there.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but we didn't put that stipulation on this.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's fair.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and I think that equals to like what I was saying about Jade Puget.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, people knew AFI, but Jade is what gave them their sound.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: I would I would say people knew Queen, but it was Freddie Mercury that gave them what we know as the masses, like worldwide.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Those extra incisors, as you would say.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the other one is more on a sad note, but Journey still went on.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Granted, they had to have a huge search for a Steve Perry.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, that was kind of what I was saying earlier, was they found a guy that if you just listen to like the recording you're not seeing in person, you'd never question it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_05: It sounds if it's not the exact same, like it's close enough, no one's gonna question it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_05: And which is kind of where I was going with the like that's why I think it's been harder with Lincoln Park, is because if you just listen to their carding, it clearly like theirs is clearly different where like someone like Journey or Queen, it's like it's at least close enough that like you don't really care.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's fair.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well on that same line of thought, ACDC and Black Sabbath changed front men.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: As well.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: And they're I I don't know if their sounds completely changed, but at least ACDC I don't think did.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um Black Sabbath, maybe a little.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_05: See, I guess the question with Sabbath is did do we really know Sabbath or do we know Ozzy?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_05: Because like I know the earliest stuff with Sabbath, but after that everything I know of as Black Sabbath is just Ozzy.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and even the later stuff with Black Sabbath that they did with post Malone was Ozzy Osborne.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_05: So I guess I guess that one gets even cloudier, because like, I don't know, John, you would know more on that than I think either Alex or I do.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_05: Did Sabbath keep going after Ozzy?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_05: Did we just not get as much like in the public eye with it?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really that's a really sad question for you to ask.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you did go this was Ozzy.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna say something, and if you guys know this, you're gonna hit thump yourselves in the head.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't know this, I need you to thump yourselves in the head.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: James Dio was the new lead singer of Black Sabbath when they got rid of Ozzie Osborne.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: See, I didn't know Dio went to.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_04: If I think of Dio, I think Dio.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: How did you not put like that?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they did like three albums together.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: They may have done three albums together, but with Cody's line of thought, do you really think of Black Sabbath or do you think of Dio?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: When no, when I think so, and that's why I love this conversation I wanted to bring up because you're gonna have so many different subjective, might I add you, unless it's me, then it's right.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um exactly, uh, opinions on this.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: For me, with Ozzie Osborne or with Dio, and maybe they both rest in peace too, um, it's Black Sabbath because you still had Tony Iomi on guitar writing everything, and then you still had everyone else.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: When the 13 album came out, it was a big deal because that's the first album in flipping forever that Ozzie Osborne was back with Black Sabbath.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and that's when the song God is Dead came out, which is an incredible song, everyone should listen to it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that like, so I I but I think there it's it also shows as a as a society when they were like, hey, Black Sabbath is coming out with another album.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's weird.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who are they gonna have sing it because James Dio's dead?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can someone fact check me that his name's James real quick?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure I am.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um fun fact, I actually know a friend that was like really good friends with Dio.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's Ronnie James Dio.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, see, that's why that's why I need someone to look it up.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: I met this really cool guy here in Missouri, and he we were talking music, and he goes, Hey, by the way, I'm like friends with Dio.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Really?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Yeah, and he's like, Let me show you, and showed me like all these pictures of him and Dio, like, I'm not talking like concert stuff, like literally like sitting down on like his patio with like Dio type of stuff.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, well, my condolences, because it wasn't that long after Dio died when I met him.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, that has nothing to do with anything.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: But um, no, so for for me and my thought process, it's like Black Sabbath is Black Sabbath, and yeah, when they were like, we have a new album, who's gonna sing it?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because Dio's dead, uh, Ozzie Osborne, and it's like, whoa.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and for me, it's like I got I got to have both aspects.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: I got to have when they I'm pretty sure they kicked out Ozzy or he left.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a little weird.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_05: I think it was mostly kicked out, but also a little bit of left.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_05: I know it was mostly because, you know, as everybody knows, Ozzy has a pretty long history with drugs, and I'm pretty sure What?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_05: What he didn't know this?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_05: What?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'm pretty sure it was mostly that like they just got fed up with just how far gone he was, but it might have been a little bit of leaving, but I think it was mostly kicked out.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I I know for me it was like I was like, I had I had pre-Dio Black Sabbath, I had Dio Black Sabbath in those albums, and um I'm pretty sure that's where the uh that was the same era of where like the classic Black Sabbath with like the guy wearing that like spider-looking gas mask uh symbol.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give me that look like you don't know what I'm talking about.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly don't I know you do I know you know.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'll look it up here in a minute.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I'll just look it up right now.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Google.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um Black Sabbath gas mask symbol.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is that really you looking it up, or is that you looking it up?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole different conversation, baby.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: That one, the one that Iron Man wears and Avengers.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, wow, okay.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm alone in this conversation.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so uh that but like that that was all Dio stuff, and like a lot of iconic stuff, you know, came from the Dio era, and then Ozzy just went off and did his thing.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was Black Sabbath.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the same Black Sabbath?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, was it different?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but like that's where that's for me where that came from.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then also as a fan, when Ozzy came back, I also got to be like, holy mother effing crap, Ozzy's back.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I got to have that as well, you know?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I I mean, I don't remember what the question was, but.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I hope I answered that for you.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_05: I mean it was essentially like if I had asked if Black Sabbath kept doing stuff because Yes.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer was yes.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: Obviously, yes, clearly, but I didn't I mean, as somebody who mostly heard Ozzy, like I if I heard them with Dio and it was like on the radio unless they said that was Sabbath, I probably just assumed it was Dio.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's that whole thing too, with like I I think this conversation could also get into like, is Phil Collins Phil Collins, or is Phil Collins Genesis?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or is Genesis Genesis?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is Lincoln Park Lincoln Park?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is Chester Lincoln Park?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is Chester also Black Death Sunrise?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like what what is it with these with these members?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: What makes it so that it is what it is?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or like what I said, is it the music?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Genesis went on and changed their sound, though, after Phil left, I thought.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I only listened to the crap I just gave you guys for Black Sabbath, I I equally don't know for Genesis.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Remember, we do a little bit.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Utmost confidence, wrong information.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this I promise you this whole conversation is riddled with wrong information.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you, everyone's smacking their head against something, this whole conversation.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, that does bring into question there are bands that changed because they needed to do it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Give me an example.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Lost Prophets.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that one.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_05: The short answer for Lost Prophets is their original lead singer went to jail for being about as bad of a pedo as you could be, and I'm talking like touching like a baby, and then got murdered in prison.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_05: That's the that's the easiest answer.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_05: That guy, yeah.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_05: That guy.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I was right before you said who he was, when he said jail, I was about to be like, like escape the fate?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing like escape the fate.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_05: So they kind of were also forced to change.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_05: Not for the same reason, but Ronnie was in jail for a while.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_05: If they wanted to keep doing stuff, they had to make a change.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: Which their sound did change after Ronnie left.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but like again, like with the whole Jade Puget thing, I feel like it was for the best, because that's the sound everyone knows now for Escape the Fate.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think Ronnie had his own sound.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_05: And the thing that worked for Escape the Fate with the change is, well, if you were an Escape the Fate fan, clearly you knew Ronnie's sound, but for a lot of people that was such a short era in Escape the Fate that it's almost like, well, whatever, like it was a couple year period, and now we're on to new stuff.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of like with um Metallica and Kill Em All, um, that had Dave Mustaine.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even think Cliff Burton was on that album either.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then it was like, okay, and and it's crazy.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you listen to the Kill Em All album, you could after you hear that it's Dave Mustaine and not Kurt Hammett, like you could hear the Dave Mustaine guitar playing.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh, but again, once they got Cliff and once they got Kurt, and then I got personally nothing against Jason, but we'll skip Jason.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: But once they got Rob for the bass, like the Metallica now with Rob, Kirk, Lars, and James, to me, that's Metallica.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying kill them all Metallica and uh ride the lightning and stuff, is it Metallica?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for me, because that's the Metallica I know, it has with Rob.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: But same thing, like they had to change for this or that circumstances.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: But because of that, we have Megadeth.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and now, and and the big four.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's also crazy.
• 48:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, even another one that, like, if you're talking major changes, I mean, Slipknot's had several recently, but I mean, I don't unless you're like a Slipknot, like a big Slipknot fan, a lot of people don't realize Corey wasn't the original lead singer.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's only on everything after their first album that had Corey.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_05: Their first album, I don't think Corey was there yet.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_05: If he was, like, even if he was, their first album is so drastically different.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see, I'm gonna keep the mic here.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see that the original lead singer of Slipknot in Iowa had an anniversary uh Mate Feed Kill Repeat show?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he had his original gimmick and everything on, and he played everything from that album up there in Iowa.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was this was like a month or two ago.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think I did.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_05: The crazy thing is, I guess.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_05: How did he pull that off without like massive lawsuits?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because he was on the album.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's his album.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you're gonna say he's probably on there as a writer.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I guess.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_05: Because I know that's been a contention with some of the past now past members is how some of the legal stuff with Slipknot is working at this point.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and even at that point, like, if anything, he just say, Oh, I'm doing covers.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like when when Slash went solo after we'll call it the incident, the Guns N' Roses incident, um, screw job.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, um, when Slash went solo and he was doing like Sweet Child of Mine and stuff like that, he had to call those covers because Axel had the rights to all the music, even though Slash basically wrote a lot of it.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that like so there's there's like loopholes, there's like legal loopholes, really easily.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something like that.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or he had Miles Kennedy sing it, so it was a cover.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the another good one, because I'm pretty sure none of these people are in this band anymore.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: What about Deadheads and The Grateful Dead?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think any of those guys are in the band anymore.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: They're original guys.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, same with the same with Leonard Skinner.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, technically, Leonard Skinner, the the original lead singer, or the the original lead singer died.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: His brother took over.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: His brother's been the singer ever since.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think any other members are original, but they're still doing stuff.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the thing.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did did did I uh many years ago, did I see Leonard Skinner?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or did I just see a cover band?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's my biggest thing with this whole subject.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did I see Leaky Park or did I see a cover band?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_05: That was fair.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_05: Quick thing for you, Alex.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, Grateful Dead's not still a thing.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, they just uh I work with a nurse and she just went up to a big festival in Seattle where she saw the Grateful Dead.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if it was like a cover band.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_05: According to the internet, Grateful Dead stopped being a thing in '95.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Then I don't know who she saw then.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, back to John's point.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_05: That is, I mean, it's hard to I think it depends just on each fan.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_05: Like, when you look at it for them specifically, is if whoever's watching it decides they're still watching that band, I think that's all that matters.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_05: Because otherwise, anyone can argue whether a sound is or is not that band anymore.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_05: And unfortunately, there is no correct answer.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's however you take it.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_05: For me, obviously, I don't see Lincoln Park still as Lincoln Park, at least not how I knew.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_05: For you, obviously, it's still Lincoln Park.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_05: So, I mean, at the end of the day, it's up to whoever's listening, and I don't think there's anything you like anyone can do to change that because art is subjective, and if that's how you see it, that's how you see it.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_05: There is no wrong answer.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I completely agree with that.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: I uh that's why I don't I I get annoyed when people are like I do this to troll you, but when I'm like Blackville Brides, you know, just because I know they're your favorite band.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really actually think that way.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know if them getting rid of Ashley was actually for the positive or not, because he wrote so much of that.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: But again, at the same time, Jake Pitts took a lot of the liberties, and and they I haven't listened to them since their uh seventh album, but it's uh I mean, and that was still during the Ashley Purdy era.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I I heard some of their other stuff, and I'm like, okay, it's it's very clear Ashley's not involved in this.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: But from what I hear on the interwebs and the social medias, people seem to really like their sound now if we're comparing.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but yeah, no, I I anyways, I I I do troll you by being like Quickville Brights, but honestly, I I think you hit it on the nail there.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it is subjective, and and it annoys me when people are like, that's not really Lincoln Park, that's not really Journey, that's not really AFI.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, But here's the thing.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, it is.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry that you, and this is the part where I'm like, except for what I say I'm right, I know it's joking, but like, in all actuality, um, it is those bands.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is it those bands to the true and pureness of it?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_05: But obviously, in some cases, it can't.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_05: Lincoln Park and ones like that, like, it just can't be anything.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like, and like, and like I'll take black, I'll I'll take Black Fellow Prize as an example.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when when they went through, when Andy Biersack went through everything he went through to finally get the band that it is now, um I understand why they made those changes.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a completely different thing than like Slipknot or like Lincoln Park because there were deaths.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, like, well not to me, I'm I'm just gonna say it.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: The band is the band.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: What era of the band you like, you can like, you can keep liking, you could keep loving it.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean you have to take away from everyone else saying everything after the era you grew up with or the era you know is not that bad.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff Ramsey said it perfectly.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone likes the thing when they discover it.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as as uh especially as artists, uh we need to be more subjective of other people's opinions versus, you know, tearing them down, especially as an artist.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: If I were to look at you, Cody, and be like, I only liked your stuff in 2010, everything after that's crap, that's pretty hurtful to you.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and to you, you're like, that's not true.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: I got way better stuff than 2010.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm over here like, nope, 2010, Cody's it.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Everything after that, crap, that's messed up.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be like that.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Alright?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you like Lika Park, Chester, cool.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you like Meteora and Hybrid Theory, cool.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you could shivigate about it, cool.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: But stop tearing people down about this.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not about that.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: But everything else, sure, whatever.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing's really.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: The only original was um Z Z Top.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: But even he died, and they have someone else.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: But like, son of a God, nothing's original.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: As far as the lineup, the music's still original.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: As far as the lineup.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you like that music and this is how you celebrate it, then do it.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be turning other people down.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's the thing you have to realize, especially with music, is very few, at least if we're going bands, very few bands are ever their original lineup.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_05: By the time you know them, by the time they get mainstream, whatever, lineups change.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_05: Now, if it's like a solo artist, yeah, the backing bands are always gonna change, but at the end of the day, Lady Gaga is Lady Gaga.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_05: There's no arguing that.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_05: But if we're going more what we listen to, which is more bands, then yeah, it it is ever changing for one reason or another.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes it's just creative differences, sometimes it is a member died.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_05: It's whatever.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_05: It good luck finding a band that was 100% original members at any given point in time.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: So all right.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're done with this conversation, we're running out of time.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to do a quick um behind the scenes production thing.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sorry about the microphone in this episode.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of our mics was working and decided to just break, so we have it on a swivel, and I'm trying to control the swivel.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have accidentally almost hit Cody in the face like ten times, and we are doing back-to-back recording, so the next few might sound a little weird and you might hear this.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: Deal with it.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did not see this coming.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was working, it's not anymore.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, Alex, final thoughts or take us out?
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, just to clean up all that, same thoughts.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: Blee whatever the band you want in your head, that's the band.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's the band.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: Be nice about it.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: Don't be a dick.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: So.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: But you got anything, Cody?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_05: No, I ain't got anything else for this one.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: John, do you got anything?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, and for all of you out there, I serve a society by rocking, alright?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not I'm out there on the front lines giving the music, it's all.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: Peace.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey!