Latest / Masterminds Podcast / I Bought a Mine Without a Dollar in My Pocket: Angela Attieh || Masterminds Podcast EP84

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I Bought a Mine Without a Dollar in My Pocket: Angela Attieh || Masterminds Podcast EP84 · Masterminds Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Most things in my life, uh it was accidental, not planned.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: So would you say that it's your um knowledge and finance from your background to KPMG that helped you with how to do financing for buying different minds and everything?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't you feel scared that you would fail, feel like this could be a mistake, you couldn't do this?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think so.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think I always say that you don't know how strong you are until the only choice you you have is to be strong.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: For any contractor, what you want to ensure is that the client that you are seeking to do work with has the credibility.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about how you got the opportunity to buy your first mine.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I was having coffee with um the CEO of the group that owned Adamo's Endeavour Mining, and he asked me, How would you like to own a mine in Ghana?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: And when he mentioned it, I was like, Yeah, right, you think I've got that kind of money.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Before we jump into the conversation, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting and deciding to watch this episode.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: But now I have a favor subscribe to the channel.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribing to the channel helps me and the entire mastermind team to continue bringing you wonderful conversations and episodes that bring you closer to being the mastermind you deserve to be.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So join the community.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode, I'm hoping, is going to be so smooth and amazing because the lady sitting in front of me just has the right kind of demeanor.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: She's so humble after achieving so much and continues to achieve.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I am honored to be in the presence of someone who has dominated an industry for 25 years.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Not just any industry, but the mining industry.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am sitting with the amazing Angela Atiye, CEO for Nguvu Mining Limited, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Good, thank you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I am always awesome.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just want us to have a quick conversation about you know your mindset, the kind of things that you've been able to do.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Use your story to inspire other people so that we can have more people succeed, like the way you have.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Are you open to that?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'll certainly try.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's I always like to start back in the beginning before you became who they know you to be.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I know you started out at KPMG.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to understand how the switch from KPMG finance into mining for 25 years.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: How did that happen?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like most things in my life, I it was accidental, not planned at all.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I don't think you had asked me um say in in my university days that I would have told you I was going into mining.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was far from the dream I had.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I happened um to to be married into a family that was involved in mining services or um support services.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: And while at KPMG, the the company got into some great difficulty with operations and and finance.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I was asked to step in to help.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was supposed to be for six months.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so I I didn't actually know it's funny when I I tell people that I'm technically still on unpaid leave from KPMG.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, maybe one day I'll go back.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, six months turned into 25 years and still counting.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So what was that like?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that means you you dove into the company once we were going through a difficult time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: How were you able to dig them out of that?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um, again, you know, very young at the time, I was in my early 20s, so I I had no clue.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Background in finance, you know, I majored in accounting um at the university, and so I was in auditing at KPMG.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: The issues um were more I would say um finance related, um and you know, kind of legal and um relationship management at the time.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: So the company had a contract, a major contract, the only contract here in Ghana.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: It had been terminated abruptly.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, no revenue which way to go.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And this was a family business, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't say no.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I wasn't sure how I was going to navigate it, obviously, but um I had to I had to answer to the call.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um the first thing was to review the issue.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: So my um first um job was was really to negotiate a settlement with a client at the time.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: It took me close to a year to achieve that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because going back was not an option, unfortunately.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So six months had elapsed.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, not the six months, I mean, for the contract to be reinstated for the company at the time.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: So uh whatever had happened between client and contractor was irreparable.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it was about um getting a fair settlement um so you know we could move on and look for other jobs, yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so how are we able to navigate that?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think most people don't know that it's tough to start a business, but it's tougher to take a business from a low point.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very tough.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: How are we able to navigate salvaging that relationship and getting new clients going on going forward?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: I had to be extra humble.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I had to I had to take a crash course on mining.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the the issues that led to the dispute and and hence determination you know were quite technical.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to learn things about uh RLs, pit exits, you know, all age distances in mining, you know.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember, you know, in one of the discussions, um, the person I was talking to was like, are you a mining engineer?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like you know, in two weeks I I had been briefed and I had to pick up, you know, on the argument that I needed to bring across.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously being the neutral person, I was um perceived as you know, um, I guess um the one who could really go and negotiate because the the company didn't even have money to go to court.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we tried that.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's an expensive um route, you know, playing lawyers and and going through a long-drawn battle.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, I believe in in dialogue in every situation, you know, and um if the parties that were involved, you know, were not um were too hot-headed, they always needed a cool-headed person to come in and calm tempers and that really was um what I focused on.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously talking to creditors, um, hanging on to the few employees that that were there.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um bearing in mind that you know there were um huge financial obligations, um, and and that was that had to be done so that um the company could move on and at least wind down um in an orderly fashion.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean now I'm understanding, you know, the demeanor and everything.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: The funny thing is, the first time I heard about you and I looked you up, my first thought is she seems very calm for somebody who's doing mining.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know mining to be a cutthroat industry, but now I'm understanding that even in a cutthroat industry, the right person can calm the waters and still rain.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just do do me a favor.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give me a crash course on mining?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is there like a five-minute summary?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because all I know about mining is find expensive minerals and make money.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's when we say the mining industry, what does it actually mean?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are the opportunities there?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the first end of it is is obviously the geology.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're going to go into mining, um the area has to have you know the presence of minerals, and that starts with investigation.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to do that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it starts very, you know, sometimes very rudimentary process of you know scanning river bodies to see which way the gold is running.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you go into an area where there's um data already existing, some basic data, and you just need to delve in a bit more.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's expensive.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not as expensive as oil exploration, but still expensive.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: So once you've gone through um and identified the resource that you're looking to exploit, you need to make sure that it's in economic quantity.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the cost of mining against what comes out because if it's not enough, um there is a cost to extract extracting it, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't get that right, um you'll you'll end up in trouble.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um so first it has to be present, then it has to be in enough quantity to be uh exploited and processed.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So in Google, what are the different types of mining that Ngulu does?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um so mainly gold, um, all operations are gold, um, but we do have um some interest in bauxite and INR as well.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So would you say that it's your um knowledge and finance from your background to KPMG that helps you with how to do financing for buying different minds and everything?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm a bit of a busybody, you know.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, you know, I um I I go into into things because they they make sense, but it's more um out of impact.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's not so much about the business or how big it it is.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I think you've heard my story, you probably realize.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I didn't set out to go buying mines because I I wanted to own mines.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I started by providing services, which again I I would have rather done for six months and gone back to my job.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Not for 25 years.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but maybe mining is addictive.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um but but I always, you know, it it wasn't an option for me to go back, you know, just um for four years I worked without a salary because I was, you know, I thought this is temporary, I'm just helping you out, you know.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm paid leave here and I'm paid work here.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you know, yeah, the sacrifices we make.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, but um it was um it it paid off.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think um I was I was a very odd figure in at the time.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think anybody had seen a 20-something-year-old um, you know, young woman in in this business at the time, more so an African, because at that time, 2001, industry was predominantly expatriate at the management level, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So um now it's it's changed.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's been um lots of changes since then.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: So uh young black woman weren't you scared?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was terrifying, it was like you had all the odds against you your age, your ethnicity, you know, the fact that you're a woman.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and you sound like me, like you know, and so you're petite, and you know.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, I was called the small girl behind my back, you know, yeah like in secret.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I saw it in an email thread.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh someone inadvertently, you know, eventually copies me in on an email and I see the reference to me as the small girl.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Small girl.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't even know if they're taking you seriously, but you know, when you have to assert yourself somehow.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can't imagine you asserting yourself.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't know, but I think often people can tell when I'm serious.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a yeah, I I don't have a loud or deep voice.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yes, I I have a way of asserting myself when I need to.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So now let me go into a different, let me change gears a bit.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to understand what your principles and disciplines are like.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I ask that because you know, there are two ways in which people lead.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's either by a certain authority with their words or a certain authority with their actions.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And consider the fact that you are so soft-spoken, I am imagining that people will follow you because of what you do.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to understand like the mind of Angela.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I think leadership by example is is definitely the more effective approach.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you can't say one thing and do another.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I think staying humble and and more importantly, respecting people irrespective of their position, you know, and um and and being able to to have principles that you abide by that you will not compromise on.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes I come across as being a bit difficult in that regard, but I I don't I do have lines that I I will not let people cross sometimes.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's I mean I I believe that's valuable.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think even when people complain that someone is being stubborn or being difficult, it still earns a certain respect.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of us wish we could set the right boundaries, stick to our principles.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when we see that in somebody, we may, you know, complain and tell our colleague, oh, she thinks what, but at the end of the day, we will accord you the respect that you deserve because of those things.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and long term that's more sustainable.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, you cannot continue to survive doing you know uh the wrong thing.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're still in the journey here.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you started at BCM, right now you're in four years, you've dug them out of the trenches, and the company started to go international.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: How did that happen?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's biggest aim is to build wealth.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, anyone who knows what they are about will tell you the one true way to build wealth is to have a system that gains that wealth over time.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, most people are suffering to what system or what tool can they use?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: How do they get to invest easily?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do they get to invest over time?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Small amounts, compound interest, and build their wealth.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that tool is achieved by Petra.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Download Achieve by Petra now and let's build wealth together.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was interesting.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so outside of Ghana, company had never done any mining contract.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the business had never done mining until it was a mining company without mining.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was a mining, it was a civil earthworks company, and then they had one mining contract here.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: So up until the time I joined, it was it had only executed a mining contract um here outside of Ghana, it was more whole age contracts, um, tailing stam construction, mining related, but more civil earthworks.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so um just to put that into perspective, the the first um contract um we had to negotiate was you know with a a client um that we were doing civil earthworks for in um in Mali.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um they had acquired a project in Uzbekistan of all places.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they, you know, we had to convince them that you know we could get the equipment and also um execute a contract to that scale in a country like that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And logistically that was challenging.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can imagine.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you had to go through some pretty um difficult countries to get into Uzbekistan, you know.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the direct way to get to Uzbekistan and get things done.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we had to get some used equipment that had to go by road through certain countries.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think for about two weeks we lost them, like we there was no communication with the so we weren't sure if they were going to make it eventually they emerged in the country.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So never acting.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yes, yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was um that was the um the the first contract, and and it seemed like every year at mining in Daba, I was in a room somewhere away from the conference negotiating one contract or another.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: So took us into Mali, into Niger, into Guinea, um Senegal, um where else um Kazakhstan, um Mali, I said already Co d'Ivoire, um, and where else Burkina?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to understand, are you afraid of anything?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm listening to your story, a young 20-something-year-old lady jumping into mining to save a company, and then your first move internationally wasn't Togo or Ivory Coast, where you can just jump across the border was Uzbekistan.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can only pronounce Uzbekistan because of Portugal versus Uzically Uzbekistan.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't you feel scared that you would fail, feel like this could be a mistake, you couldn't do this?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think so.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think um I I always say that you don't know how strong you are until you're the only choice you you have is to be strong, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was about survival, it was about proving myself um as well that you know, if whatever challenge came up, we could we could do it.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, these were um people that we knew.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, they didn't have the confidence that we could execute it.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I remember the um the CEO at the time because he had experience with BCM in Mali doing small jobs, and he used to joke, um he always thought the name BCM stood for broken caterpillar machines, you know, exist because we we mostly had that, but um that's where convincing the banks, you know, comes in.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you had to um build that credibility with with banks, you know, um, because nobody gives you money to go to Uzbekistan, you know, to to work.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: In any case, there are no banks in Uzbekistan that have you know um any knowledge about uh a small mining contractor coming from Ghana, you know.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it took a bit of deal making.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I even want to know the most.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: One thing you hear everybody talk about is oh, I have this idea, I need money to do this.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to scale up my company, I need money to do this.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't understand financing.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, they don't even understand the opportunities there are, and then even when they know the opportunities, how to actually.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Secure the financing and make sure they use it right.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Can you walk me through such a process?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is you and BCM, you need to get financing to pull off the Uzbekistan job.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: What are the steps?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean the first thing is to, and it's a catch 22 because the bank wants you to have a contract, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the the con the client wants you to have the money or the capacity to go.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the chicken and egg um situation.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you do first?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um you you kind of have to do both.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the with the client, you're you're trying to get a um letter of support or intention to support.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know what the banks are like, you know, there would be that, you know, this is not binding clause or whatever.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you need to put on your charm and and and and talk, you know, like you can.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's always about the first time.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I always say that don't mess it up the first time because it's really your opportunity to prove yourself.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And after that, you you know, you're up one step, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you can um you can leap from there.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of people tend to destroy it when you know they're given the chance because they don't see beyond that first chance.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, yes, sure, you'll get that first opportunity, but that's it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're dead in the water after that, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it was about getting a bank to say, you know, and and that's where the financing um okay, the knowledge of financing, and I I guess the um the the capability comes in useful, is you know, yes.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So understanding that you have the client and you have the bank, and then you have to somehow juggle the two at the same time because without the clients, there's no bank, without the bank, there's no client.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be working simultaneously so they both feel confident.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and usually when you get the job, the client wants you there like yesterday.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that's where a relationship with an equipment financier came in handy.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I had to make a decision to approach Caterpillar finance um directly.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it was um they want to sell their machines, they have a financing option.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and and so everything has to make sense.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: You need to have that viable project, they have to want to go into that country, you know.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there were times when I'd go to Cut Finance, and my good friend Um Chris at the time in in Nashville would say, take a big black pen and put a cross on it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then he just simply meant don't go there.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because, yeah, because there are certain territories that a bank would not go into.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: So as you navigate your way across the globe, you have to be mindful of where you may want to go, but you you wouldn't necessarily be able to raise the financing for.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you're able to raise, so were the banks okay with financing in Uzbekistan?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, some, but you know, it would be a cross-border um facility with guarantees taken out of there.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: But no, no Uzbekistan bank um did at the time.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it was it was CAT finance.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was CAT finance.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say financing from CAT, do you literally mean them also putting up some money or you just mean financing on spreading out the equipment, the the payments for the equipment?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: So they will provide the um the equipment the equipment, yes.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: So cat finance, so caterpillar is the equipment manufacturer.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: They have a division that finances it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to go through the same credit approval process as you would with a bank.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's a com it's a different um department.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and yes, so once you get approval, the um equipment supplier, because every country has has um a dealer um who then sells you the equipment.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: So cat finance pays that dealer to supply you with the equipment.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think Uzbekistan was a combination of that and and one of our existing banks.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're like juggling multiple problems at the same time.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: So keeping the clients happy, then getting the bank financing, getting the cat financing, then now also dealing with the supplier.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a supplier that you said you lost communication with between one doing it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, that was for used equipment that we had.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, for for for the CAT dealer, they they deliver brand new machines and commission them.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: So for any contractor, what you want to ensure is that the client that you are seeking to do work with has the credibility, you know.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: So once you have a credible client, it's easier to get a bank to finance it because they they can rely on the payment.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So your payments are routed through that bank.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so on a monthly basis, as you as you paid, they get their repayment.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that makes sense.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then that comes to the difficulty because now securing a credible client is the tough part.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because it means the client needs to trust that you can do the job.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And here they were calling you broken caterpillar machines.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you convince the clients that you can do the job?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a series of ways, you know.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: You have to, again, like I said, you know, tell them, yes, we're not bringing the broken cat machines you're used to.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Here is um a facility that we've got ready to procure brand new equipment, which will be more reliable than those that you're used to.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if you show up on a job with with broken equipment, you you don't um yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: So now you have to sort of show that you will be credible and then you follow through with your promises.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And with that client, you need to ensure that you perform because everything depends on your production.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't produce, they're unable to process, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if you do that, you go from having your first five years to the next five years, and they continue to extend your contract that way.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't perform, you you could also get kicked out.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it makes it makes it very complicated to be, you know, as had happened in Ghana, where a contract that was meant to go on for a few more years was just abruptly terminated.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you you have to constantly deliver on your targets.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then now I'm understanding because this lets me understand that by the time you started in Goo Vu, you had really got an experience globally from mining.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about how you got the opportunity to buy your first mine.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: The first mine is Adam's resources, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: How did that come about?
• 29:41
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• 29:49
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• 29:53
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• 30:01
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• 30:08
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• 30:17
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• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I was having coffee with um the CEO of the group that owned Adam's Endeavour Mining in um in London at the time.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And while we were discussing, you know, other issues, because we were actually working for them.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um there were clients in Côte d'Ivoire.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he asked me, How would you like to own a mine in Ghana?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you mean?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Well, we're we're looking to sell um our mine in Ghana, and I think it would be a good fit for you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Being Ghanaian, you know, I think it would be a perfect fit, you know, you could deal with the community issues and regulatory issues and and all of that.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, okay, so how much is it?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: But when he mentioned it, I was like, yeah, right, you think I've got that kind of money?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, but he he wasn't giving up on the idea, you know.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I every time I see him, you know, I just say to him, you know, you didn't do me any favors.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know what you saw in me and and decided I should do this.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: So he's he asked me to come with him to their office.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: I went there and his CFO was there.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And funny enough, he's an accountant like me.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you do have a few accountants who are CEOs of mining companies.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we went back there and you know, they they um they were working um free cash flow that you know over the next 18 months, and they were showing me what it looked like.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because the intention was to shut down the mine in 18 months.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: It had 18 months to go.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, back to exploration, um, which I mentioned before.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: So a mine does the exploration, and based on the resource that they discover, there's a set number of years that they would mine and and and process.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: If they do not continuously invest in exploration, that mine dies, right?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just you just extract whatever it is that you know you have, and then you shut down and do your rehabilitation work.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: So for them, they'd made a decision not to continue to um invest in Ghana.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the um exploration stopped a few years prior.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the intention was really to take it and and um and shut it down um by 2020.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, after after the the presentation, I was like, okay, so why don't you you let me run it for you then for the next 18 months since I don't have the money to pay for it, you know.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um but on a more serious note, you know, he he kept insisting.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um fortunately, with the credibility, again back to the credibility I told you about, you know, which is really the only currency, is it's the only way I could buy a mine without a dollar in my pocket.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is the the payment came directly from the bank to Endeavor at closing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then being a busybody, I decided to keep exploring and put new life into this mine.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, thank God we've been going for six years since then.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um not at the full capacity that we would want, but um, yeah, we haven't given up, we continue to explore and to invest in making sure that it it goes on for the next 10 years at least.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this was the first time you owned a mine.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So like BCM never owned mining in the industry, but didn't own the mine.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: BCM was providing services to those who owned mines.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Then yes.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this was a big jump.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was a big jump.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was a big jump.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to ask again, weren't you scared?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was terrified, of course.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, back to challenges.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Remember where I came from, knowing nothing.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's always about leading with intention, with purpose, and and really understanding what you want to achieve.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: And once it's I guess um the purpose is is right, I think God always finds a way of you know directing you and and and letting you succeed at what you're doing.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the intention has to be pure, and mine was keep this mind going for the sake of 1200 jobs and communities that you know still depend on on the company.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that's one thing that most people who haven't taken that first big leap don't understand yet.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: That the leap is only scary the first time.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: After that, the next time you're about to take another leap, even though you still feel the fear, you remember that you you survived the last leap and you survived the leap after that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you will survive this leap as well.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and you always have to understand what you've got to lose, right?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's the worst case scenario?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because in in every investment, you have to think about the stakeholders.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was about, you know, am I risking um the bank that is financing?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I had to make sure that, you know, at least um I would be able to pay from everything that you know was was evident from resources after financing, what happens if things go wrong?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you buy your first mine, Adam's Adam's resources, right?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's not going as well as you're supposed to.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Who then suffers?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the bank?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is it you?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like what happens then?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, every everybody suffers if you fail.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know, and um, I mean, I when I ran BCM, we had a situation in Sierra Leone um where we had I think that was our biggest operation, you know, running over 70 um hundred tandam tracks.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was huge, and I had borrowed um a significant amount of money for that.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, we're in the process of scaling up when um things kind of fell apart, you know, just raised 42 million dollars, brought in new equipment, um, and this was CAT Finance at the time.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um the the equipment had barely reached the port um when iron ore price crashed to I think at the time to below 50, it went from over 100 to below 50.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: So your revenue also just dropped by 50.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Not not just revenue, but for a mine, um, you have to um adjust to to such significant price drops, right?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because if your costs exceed the revenue you're going to generate, then you would put that mine into care and maintenance.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you do have um situations where mines get into trouble because they're not generating enough to cover their cost.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, and then Ebola hit at the same time, like you know, sometimes when the problems come, they come in.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just wonder, yes, you know, if it's going to end.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was pretty um difficult at the at the time.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So again, in times like this, you know, that's where it's important to have a relationship, you know.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um if the relationship with a client is not good, you need to have a relationship with with the bank.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, um Cat Finance was was extremely supportive at the time.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: They understood the the difficulty.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I was so touched when I was asked the question.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they summoned me to Nashville at the time.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was a meeting.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, oh my God, you know, I'm in trouble.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a lot of money.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if they said to me, pay now, which some banks would do, like they would pull the rug from underneath your feet.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if they did that, then you know, you're you're pretty much dead.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it was it was really um reassuring.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was quite you know shocking for me how understanding they were and saying, you know, how can we help you?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want a moratorium?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: We can give you 12 months, you know.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my god, I was touched.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and you do need financiers like that in difficult times, because without that, what are you going to do?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: You won't get value for the equipment that you've got, right?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so they helped us through that problem, you know, and eventually we were able to navigate out of it, and yeah, everyone won eventually because you know, if if your customer is is down, that's not the time to kick them, to kick them even harder, and you've got to help them to rise up again or to navigate through whatever issues, you know.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I would also say that your integrity and credibility is part of why they would do that.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the past, they hadn't enjoyed the working relationship.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be one to cut ties with you.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: But they realize okay, she's had many wins for us before.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why not help her through this time?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Indeed, indeed.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Some people don't, some banks don't remember that.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, but yeah, so so that helped.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that was the only reason um they would they would afford me that um yeah that um favor.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and thankfully, you know, I I said thank you with tears in my eyes.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was really touched, but I didn't miss one repayment.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even take them on.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I said to them, you know, it's good to know that you will offer that, but I'll let you know when I need it.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And was able to refuse the 12-month sense.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had it in my back pocket, but I I still paid.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that really scored me a few points, I think, in the book.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're set for life.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: So now that explains, you see, when you come asking for financing to buy your own mine, then they remember, okay, okay, everything is making more sense.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you bought your first mine.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you you said you offered them to run it for the 18 months.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Did they take you up on that offer?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, so we had to come to a compromise of um, you know, some cash and some deferred payments.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I was able to raise money from a bank to pay, you know, the upfront amount, and then the other part was deferred.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm guessing it was immediately successful because in six years you've acquired mines in Mali, Niger, Burkina, Faso, you're doing exploration assets in Côte d'Ivoire, Liberia.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, actually, Mali was was from the same company.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess Ghana went so well the following year.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: He calls me, says, Hey, by the way, we're selling Mali.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, eventually he calls me a babukina.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, thank you.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like my hands are full.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's exhausting.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: So all three minds really, um, Ghana, Mali, and Niger were through the same contact.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it was almost as though it was, you know, I was being led down this path.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I I guess I answer to the call, um, difficult as it is.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I still don't understand the reason.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's still a struggle, you know.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: And but it's it's still good.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: The story is amazing.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm clueless on mining, and I feel like my eyes are being opened to the industry.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always just seen mining like some cutthroat industry, and you know, you have to, but I'm seeing how your precision, your integrity, your credibility is just keeping you rising to the top more and more every day.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm, interesting.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is still cutthroat though, it is no easy, it's not for the faint hearted.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you manage that?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see it?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: With difficulty, with difficulty, because I have to stay calm for the the sake of all who look up to me to stay calm in the storm, you know, and it it's it's tough.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Even from what you're describing, like what what you are you're talking about that happened, and is that it's is it Côte d'Ivoire that you mentioned that um you mentioned it's Côte d'Ivoire that you had the crisis in?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, you Sierra Leone.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sierra Leone, rather, yes.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in all those kind of situations, you're leading people.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who are looking up to you to stay calm and keep pushing through.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have like a routine?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Please show me your crisis management routine.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just I just jump and run.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: I remember during Ebola, I mean all flights were um all flights were suspended to Sierra Leone.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: At least Guinea had some flights going in, but Sierra Leone had none.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we had hundreds of people working there.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um the first day I told my mom I was going to Sierra Leone.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: She was horrified, you know.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: She can imagine.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: What amount of money would make you do that?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, why would you do that?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: She was terrified.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: She tried to talk me out of it.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Mom, I've got people there.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: How would it feel if I can't come?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I have I had to go.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because you don't put people in in dangerous way, right?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and not and abandon them.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: And abandon them.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: So going there, then I could encourage others to go.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because we we had to rely on charter flights to to take our people back and forth.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the first charter flight to Ghana, all our immigration officers ran away because they didn't want to touch their passports.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was pretty horrid.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Ebola was horrid.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Ebola has a 50% mortality rate, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a risk.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: We were able to contain it.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, very few people.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it was only one person that was lost, um, sadly, um, that had gone into the community and caught it.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: But on site, you know, the the protocols were were followed quite rigorously.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: So here we were thinking COVID was bad.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: I always wonder every time I I remember COVID, I always think, what was it like dealing with Ebola?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was tough.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I remember my first flight through Côte d'Ivoire.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: We we came off the flight in into the bus, and when the bus stopped, um the Ivorians, those going into Ivory Coast were able to go, but we were put into a room very close to to the exit, you know, with mosquitoes.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: We couldn't go out, we couldn't get a drink.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we were just we weren't allowed to go anywhere within the airport.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't like wouldn't they check first, or as long as you've been in contact with anybody in Syro?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was really sad.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I asked the question, well, what about those going into town?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like really at that point I I regretted not breaking my journey because it it was it was quite difficult.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you um let me use the word, how do you look after all your people?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have over 3,000 employees.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: How are you able to make sure, first of all, oversight on so many people?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then secondly, isn't it a drain knowing that you're responsible for so many people?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say it's a drain, it's a definitely a responsibility.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I I tell people sometimes I I have terrible migraines, you know, I don't know why, but you know, over the years I developed um severe migraines.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I I can't I don't have any excuse duties, you know.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: You you can't have three days off, and and that's difficult, you know.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you just take your medication and show up because you know there are people out there that depend on you to show up every time.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I do have a great team, so you know, by no means do I do this alone.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I could never do that, you know.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think do you think your team is part of the motivation that keeps you going?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if if you could do things all over again without the team, would you do it?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Without the team, how could I?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not superwoman.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and every now and then they say to me, you know, you you can take a break, you know, you can go away, and somehow I can't even turn my phone off.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: What was your last break?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like your last a real break without a phone and a laptop.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: None.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not not.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Since I joined, I mean, the only breaks I had was when I was at KPMG.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: I could actually go out for lunch every day, you know, and and go away on a break.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: But since I left KPMG, I haven't had a a break away from you know, even when I was having my my daughter, I had my laptop in the bed on the day I was having her.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was just, yeah, I I dropped it and broke it.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was not good.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: The laptop was telling you something.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: It smashed the screen, and yeah, I was I was quite upset with Geek Squad, you know, at the time they they didn't back up my information, you know, they changed the screen, and I thought my life was going to end, yeah.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I I survived somehow.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: You always survive.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've survived worse.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the laptop could have got any.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: I lost everything.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was crazy.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like your life has been amazing, and what is even more surprising is the fact that how do you stay so calm and hidden with the amazing things that you're doing?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like your your story should be celebrated and shouted out there all the time.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Gee, I told you I I I didn't even want to be here, but you don't like to shout out your own glory.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I've always been very private.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoy my privacy.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very shy.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people laugh when I tell them I'm shy, but you can tell I'm shy, right?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you look so my kids have more confidence than I do.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm very excited.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you lack confidence.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're very confident.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell that.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you cannot move the mountains you've moved without being confident.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're more private.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the word.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like as you're sitting there, I see you looking at me like, don't ask any questions I don't want to answer.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be known.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I just don't, yeah, I I prefer to live in obscurity.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is that true?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to convince you against that.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to try.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Give me two minutes to try.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can I try?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Try, yes, good.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe that certain people need to show the way for others.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we live in a world where there's a lot of things going wrong, a lot of people not doing the right things.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the people who are being able to do good, we need to shine a torch on them for others to see that there's actually a way through there.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I always say sometimes, you know, the society seems to be going the wrong way a lot, and that's because we don't allow our heroes to be the people we should follow.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you have the loud people being people you don't want us to follow.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we need people like you to sit here and let that young lady, that young man watching you say that I want to be like her.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be like her because if she did it, if she in her twenties was able to bring a company from under and then take that company international and then buy her own mind and then buy mines in other companies, then maybe one day I'll be sitting on a similar show and telling my story and saying Angela inspired me.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Have I convinced you?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I mean I think um in a way um it it's hard, it's it's not right to be selfish with with helping people, but I think I was brought up to be seen and not heard, right?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that was drummed into me, very conventional upbringing, you know, tough mother.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: She she taught us to understand that empty barrels made the most noise.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you just yeah, learn to not to do that.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think we were also brought up to be kind of timid as as Africans, right?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: That probably not so much these days.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I tell my daughter sometimes that if I spoke to my mom the way she speaks, sometimes I probably wouldn't live to have her, right?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because they they talk to you with their eyes, right?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you you knew when to come out or when to contribute to an adult's conversation.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, these days the you think that's they're without talking all the time.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, they just think they should chip in, and yeah, it's it's very different.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: She tells me I'm from the Stone Age, which is fine.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: But the upbringing has a lot to do with with who I am.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I I prefer to let others do things so I can sit back and and watch them.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm the one encouraging them to do the talking, you do the sign in.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in BCM, I was the CEO, but I didn't even have the title, you know, because I wanted someone else to have it while I did the job.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember um one of our clients in a meeting, you know, he looked to me and asked, So, what's your position at BCM?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, hmm, he knows what my position is, but he's asking.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: So let me.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And my response made him laugh.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: I said, you know, I have to think of it.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm the slave.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up doing everything, you know, from finance to operation.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: So if the client had an issue with equipment in the pit, I would have the general manager on the phone to me saying, Angie, your rigs are broken down.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it was it was quite difficult.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: The pressure was a lot.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm coordinating, you know, maintenance work.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if if we had issues with uh our drill rigs, I was the one talking about mast and sprockets and you know parts with defects, right?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm dealing with all of that, yeah.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I would say to the general manager, how about you head up to site, you know, spend the weekend there?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: And remember this day, he says to me, Oh, Angie, I was planning a barbecue with some friends.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I said to him, you know what, invite them over to site.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my very subtle way of saying, nah, you get up there, right?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because he says to me, I can't send them to site.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I just gave him the look and walked away.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Did you think I was seriously inviting your friends to a barbecue on site?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, go to work.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Go and fix the problem, you know.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, so I don't want to get those.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: You said something, right?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: You said that you're committed to modeling the way.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to understand what you mean by that.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've already succeeded.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did I say that?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've said it.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen you say somewhere.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: I said I want to keep the the door wider than I found it, right?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: Model the way.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still trying to figure out.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean exactly when you say keep the door wider than you found it?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: There are times when I feel like giving up, you know, the the it's a tough one, you know, and I think sometimes I'd call it the imposter syndrome.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very lonely up there.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think um people feel the perception that you've made it or that you're you're living the life is is just so so strong.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: People don't understand your struggles, right?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and and so sometimes you get these these attacks and and it gets too much.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I think that um I I stick in there, um, but it's tough, you know.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: And for one human being, I sometimes I feel like it's too much.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: I just yeah.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I explained some of the the problems when they they come at you.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of need you need a support base, you need an environment that is welcoming, one that's supportive, not one that's adversarial that questions your audacity to be who you are or to be in the space in which you are.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people are constantly judging you or or making their own um assumptions about you and how you got there and whatever.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Without thinking about really the impact that you're making.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I always say um China didn't get there in a day.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they had to build an ecosystem of support, you know, whether it was in financing or in actually sending people out to do what they had to do, they did that and they built a lot of champions.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Dangote would not build a refinery if he didn't have other Nigerian billionaires or successful Nigerian banks that could put the money in, right?
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because others wouldn't want to see that refinery work, right?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because it takes away from their business.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: The only way to succeed really is to encourage each other and to help people come in.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: I say to them, if you scare me away, it'll be a long time before another woman tries.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I stick in there for all the women who have the audacity to try.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're opening the door wider.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just keeping it open and I keep kicking it out a bit with difficulty.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because yeah, sometimes the push is way too much.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I really want to tell you keep keep keep on it.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because the truth is you are holding the door very wide, and like I'm really hoping the right people are watching this episode right now and seeing that it's possible.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: The truth is, reading your story, you made me feel I'm someone who already believes in the impossible, but you made me see how possible it is because everything you've achieved are things that you shouldn't have been able to achieve.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, your journey has not never had an easy step, but you keep going every step of the way.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the fact that when you came in here, you came to sit down, even though I know you wish you weren't doing an interview right now, you got a call and had to step out.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: I saw you handling the problem, and we're just discussing you, saying that your life isn't easy.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your life isn't easy at all.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I do want you to know that the right people see you and the right people appreciate what you're doing.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: And people like you will create a generation of overachievers because they looked up to you and felt that yes, it is possible.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: I want to look at your features.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you've you've won an award.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were presented an award with Asantahina, right?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: You received a Global Power Female Award at the UN General Assembly.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you're still so humble.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I just wonder when I get this, how did they find out about me?
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: When I go to places and people say, Have you met this woman?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: They go, No, no, I don't know her.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then they mention the name, they go, Oh, yes, I've heard of her, and then I I cringe, you know, because not all that is out there is I mean, most of what is out there is not, I mean, especially the negative stuff about me.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: Positively bigger.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, but people like to dwell on on the negative.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_02: So when they say that, I feel like, oh my god, I wish they didn't know me.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it bothers me when people say, Oh, I know her.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: But somehow, I think people are able to see through and and understand, they they discern what's what's true and what isn't.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I just have to keep pushing because the truth always comes out.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: And your mom was right, empty barrels do make the most noise.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the truth of the matter is the barrels that are full don't need to make noise.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, everybody can actually tell.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you have that in your favor.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's say, like, as we're putting this out there, maybe I may do other episodes that are going to get 10 times the views of this, but the right people will watch this, and the right people will be moved because they watch this.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thank you.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's enough for all of us, you know, and I think um, yeah, we we can only do the best we can while we're here, um, and we don't know how long we're here for.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: While we're here for our kids, for generations to come, we just need to do the right thing and we need to we need to build and not destroy whatever.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do one thing for me and then I can let you go.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to look in that camera over there and imagine the person sitting at home, that young girl or young guy is looking directly in your eyes.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a mindset that you can drop into their mind that is going to help them on their journey to greatness?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let anyone tell you it's not possible.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you put your mind to, if you put in the work, you can achieve.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: With hard work, of course, nothing gets given to you on a silver platter.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever's given to you on a silver platter, you will lose easily.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: So work hard and believe in yourself always and believe in God.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I do.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Angela, thank you, thank you, thank you so much.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I am super proud right now, especially because I know she hates to do interviews.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm super proud to have you here.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I really hope you watching this at home have become have come one step closer to being the mastermind I know you deserve to be.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Help me say thank you to Angela One.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for watching this episode.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the Mastermind's dream is about building a community of people who have the right mindset and are ready to take their success into their own hands.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: So do me this wonderful favor.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe and share with anybody out there who you believe you want to see have the right mindset to succeed so that together we can all become the masterminds we deserve to be.