Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Debbie Higbee Benton: The Gladstone Beauty Salon Murder

Transcript

Debbie Higbee Benton: The Gladstone Beauty Salon Murder · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
Okay, so word of advice.
0:04
If you're going to try to conceal a secondary phone, like a burner or, you know, just a separate
0:11
personal phone, you might want to make sure that it's at least on silence in the presence
0:17
of police or don't because we all live for terrible people getting caught in the wake of
0:23
their own criminals.
0:24
Yeah, yeah, stay too bad.
0:39
Hi, Cassie…?
0:40
Wait, this is not Cassie. [Record Scratch]
0:46
Your turn.
0:47
Oh.
0:49
Hi, Caitlyn.
0:51
Hi, Creepy People.
0:53
Helloooo.
0:54
I love how you automatically turned your head like we kind of do whenever I do the, "Hello!"
1:01
You just like, you like your body language responded to.
1:05
Yeah.
1:06
Yeah, you're like, "I'm well-trained."
1:07
Yeah.
1:08
I was going to say, "How many years of friendship?"
1:09
Yeah, too many.
1:10
I've been well-trained.
1:11
Yeah, I'd prefer that we didn't tell people.
1:14
Oh, okay.
1:15
They don't need to know.
1:16
I just met her.
1:18
Yeah.
1:19
Spring chicken this one.
1:21
Yes.
1:23
Oh my gosh.
1:24
Okay.
1:25
Back, what are we doing here?
1:28
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides, where
1:34
we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky, creepy, weird, or maybe
1:41
vaguely interesting to us in the Pacific Northwest, the PNW, if you're nasty.
1:51
She's like appalled.
1:52
She's clutching her pearls.
1:54
So we also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode so that we get a little bit of
1:57
deeper insight into our topic for the day.
2:00
At the end?
2:01
Yeah.
2:02
So stick around if you're into that.
2:03
I mean, you have to stick around here either.
2:05
I'm out of here.
2:06
Mom?
2:07
Mom?
2:08
I got to go, girl.
2:09
Yeah.
2:10
I just remember I have a thing.
2:11
I have a thing.
2:12
Yeah.
2:13
Exactly.
2:14
Yeah.
2:15
Okay.
2:16
Well, that's our intro.
2:17
So should I save this gifty for that?
2:21
No, no, no.
2:22
Do it now because it's going to be perfect.
2:24
It's for the theme.
2:26
Oh, my.
2:27
Okay.
2:28
You're going to love it if you don't.
2:30
So Andrea asked me, because by the way, this is Andrea.
2:33
I don't even know if we said that.
2:35
No, we never do.
2:36
No.
2:37
I just, you know, I just go with it.
2:38
You're like, "Hey, Cassie, hey, girl!"
2:39
No!
2:40
How you doing?
2:41
I just thought that would be funny.
2:42
And then I got tripped up by my own little switcheroo there.
2:47
So Andrea, you asked me, "What's up?"
2:50
You asked me, "Okay, so I've never guessed it on podcast before.
2:55
Am I supposed to bring a gift?"
2:56
And I was like, "Yes, I was like, it's not an expectation at all, but to any future guests."
3:03
You know, I'm just saying this is, this is how to get...
3:06
I've said a standard.
3:07
And now the bar is pretty high.
3:09
So you guys better deliver at this point.
3:11
Yeah.
3:12
Yeah.
3:13
I mean, we've had some of our Patreon come on and guess with us and do like a episode
3:20
where we were talking about their stories.
3:23
And we did end up receiving a gift.
3:27
I don't know what this is yet, but we were gifted a couple of bottles of wine.
3:32
And of course, as you all know, that is always a good gift.
3:38
Yes.
3:39
Around here.
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Yes.
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We know the true weaknesses around here.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
3:45
Oh.
3:46
My goodness.
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Right in time for the holidays.
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This is how I feel whenever I hear stories about people at like the Black Friday sales,
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which as we're recording this, it is Saturday after Thanksgiving.
4:02
"Well, that escalated quickly."
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I hope there are going to be a little bit more blood on it, but you know, you can murder
4:07
someone with a cup, right?
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I just feel like that's probably an appropriate amount.
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Just make sure you get like the full experience here.
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I feel like a little bit more blood.
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And then you would know that the person was murdered, but hey, whatever.
4:19
Hey, let's see.
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We love a mystery.
4:21
Yeah, it's true.
4:22
It's true.
4:23
This is perfect.
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This is so cute.
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Yeah.
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I was like, girl, I have to get something for the podcast.
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And this is about murder.
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So it's perfect.
4:33
Well, that escalated quickly.
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I'm not a most foul.
4:37
So this is also a story that you kind of picked out.
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Actually, a client told me about it.
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Yeah.
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And then I said, you're the one that suggested this one because I said, hey, on the off chance,
4:51
if we were to do a really themy episode because anybody who knows us knows we love a theme
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or themy bitches around here.
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Love anything that's like festive or special edition or the holiday, we just, we got to
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have it.
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It's a real PSL vibe.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
5:14
And doing one related to your current profession.
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Yeah.
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In the beauty world.
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Well, it's just, it's what's weird to me is that stuff like this is actually not out
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the ordinary.
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Like if you know anything about the hair industry, out of the sound so weird, but there's
5:33
a lot of drugs.
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There's a lot of like, there's a lot of fishy shit that goes on.
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So is it really out of the norm?
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No.
5:41
Okay.
5:42
That's a good lead in.
5:43
So you guys, if you were expecting puppies and kittens for some reason, it's not that day.
5:50
Still, still not.
5:52
Uh, will not be that.
5:54
So "anywhosel".
5:55
Well, whosel for Whoville, right?
5:57
Oh, yeah.
5:58
So you got The Grinch tree.
5:59
Yeah.
6:00
But there you go.
6:01
Yeah, the little Grinch tree.
6:03
Okay.
6:04
All right.
6:05
I'm going to get into it.
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Today we delve into a shocking case out of Gladstone, Oregon.
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A story that seems almost unbelievable unless you're “un-Andrea".
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“un-Andrea".
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I was trying to mix a couple of words there.
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You know what?
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It's okay.
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I like I said, I had to try to anything.
6:24
So yeah, but I don't think we need to adopt that.
6:27
“un-Andrea".
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Because you're uninterested in what I have to say.
6:31
Oh my God.
6:32
No, unless you're on Andrea.
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And you really, this is just another Tuesday for you apparently.
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Yes.
6:41
Oh, boy.
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This is a story of Debbie Higbee Benton, a 54-year-old salon owner who was beloved both before and
6:50
after her brutal murder in May 2011.
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As investigators dug deeper into her death, the surrounding community would be left shocked
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as a wide web of secrets.
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In a sinister plot involving her estranged spouse, former police sergeant Lynn Edward Benton
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and two accomplices was laid bare.
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Well, the thing about Gladstone is it's small enough that this would shake things up.
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Like this happened in 2011.
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People are still talking about it.
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That's why when someone's like, did you hear about it?
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I'm like, no bitch, I'm not from Gladstone, what you mean.
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But it's a big deal.
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They still talk about it.
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Oh yeah.
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No, I believe it.
7:34
And I think obviously we'll get into it here.
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But there's a lot about this case that sort of makes it a little bit more sensational.
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Debbie Higbee Benton and Lynn Benton met in 2008 and went on to tie the knot in October
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2010.
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So not married for a long time.
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Here for a good time, not a long time.
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And actually not a good time.
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So, oh, I relate to that so well.
8:04
Not a so well.
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Then no, don't not.
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Yeah.
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Another major life changing event, Lynn had reportedly begun transitioning from female
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to male.
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When the couple married in 2010, Lynn had also dropped the E from their birth name Lynne.
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So Lynn spelled L-Y-N-N versus more female.
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The birth name was L-Y-N-N-E.
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Okay.
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So we dropped the E. That's a little bit just strictly like stereotipically speaking.
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It's a little bit more of a masculine.
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I don't know why that is, but it's just sort of the etymology of the name.
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They also changed their middle name from Irene to Edward.
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Taking the box for male on the marriage license application.
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Because I wondered how they were able to get married.
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But the union was legally recognized in the state of Oregon, despite the fact that same
9:11
sex marriage hadn't been widely recognized in the US at this point.
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There just wasn't a specific or stringent gender verification that was required at the
9:21
time.
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So I had wondered how the couple was able to get married because this is two biological
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females at this point.
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Lynn just checked the box for male.
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It's that simple.
9:35
Okay.
9:36
So and we don't do any sort of a verification, which I thought, okay, I guess that makes sense.
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What kind of resources could we possibly have to be able to, that would just be so?
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We're going to look up their skirt to see.
9:52
I mean, it doesn't work like that.
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Oh, okay.
9:56
Yeah, no.
9:57
I mean, listen, I think maybe starting in January after the, you know, we need a drink for
10:05
this much.
10:06
Yeah.
10:07
We get the little intense.
10:08
Should I need more?
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Regardless, the marriage was far from idyllic.
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Their relationship quickly began to utterly deteriorate.
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According to witness statements and court records, ultimately devolving into what sounded
10:21
like a potentially very abusive relationship dynamic and living situation.
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And it doesn't indicate where the abuse is coming from.
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It does.
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Yeah.
10:32
So we'll get to that.
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Oh, yeah.
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Debbie initially supported Lynn's decision to transition, but later expressed concerns
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or doubts of some kind, though it's not exactly clear what specifically they were, like
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what their issue was around the transition.
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Though reportedly, whatever the issue was proved significant enough that Debbie asked that
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they bring the transition to a stop, which, can you do that?
11:00
Can you do that?
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That's a lot of stuff.
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Yeah.
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Can you do that?
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Doesn't that, when that mess with you, if you just like, you were, because they're on
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hormones, correct?
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You know, at this point, I would assume I don't have a lot of specifics in terms of,
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and there's a good reason for why there's certain information that's not necessarily explicit.
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We'll get to that too.
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But a lot of that would be considered as like a standard.
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That would be protected with HIPAA, you know, things like that.
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I mean, that's protected medical information.
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So it's not necessarily completely clear that they were doing hormone therapy or, you know,
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what those specific treatments or interventions were, but I would imagine so.
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By April 2011, tensions had escalated significantly.
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This was just weeks prior to Debbie's murder.
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And ultimately, the couple separated.
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Debbie moved out, taking with her photographs of bruises she claimed Lynn had inflicted.
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So Lynn being the one who is transitioning.
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I would not be surprised if part of the issue there was that obviously this is someone
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who does not want to discontinue the transition and being pressured by a partner to, you know,
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at least pause that process.
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I could see that there maybe would be some resentment there.
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It's not in any way to excuse any of what is about to happen.
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No, but it makes sense.
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I mean, yeah, you could see where obviously that would be something that would cause a rift.
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That would cause tension.
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Their split was acrimonious.
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Vocab word of the week.
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With arguments about finances and Lynn's alleged temper dominating their interactions.
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Are there police reports about any of this?
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You know, I didn't really find anything prior to their separation.
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There's not, there's not a lot that indicates there was law enforcement involved in domestic
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disputes up to this point.
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That being said, obviously, Lynn works in law enforcement.
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Right.
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So that makes it really tricky for a victim of DV to be able to get any sort of help or
13:37
assistance from exactly the people that should be protecting them.
13:43
Right.
13:44
Well, my only thing is like if she's taking pictures with her, obviously it's evidence,
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but yeah, I, you would think that instead of just having photos that they would try to
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do their due diligence to get some sort of protection against them, because especially
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if they're in the police force.
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Yes.
14:03
Yeah, it can make it really challenging though, because especially someone who is really
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well established in their career at this point, and like we've already said, it's a relatively
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small jurisdiction when compared to some place, you know, like a more major city like Portland.
14:22
Right.
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There's a lot of people that even if they're not directly in law enforcement, you have relationships
14:28
with people that are, you know, court reporters or, you know, clerks, different things that
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it's like you might not be going directly to the cops, but if you're going to seek like
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an order of protection, that might be something that they learn about because they have relationships
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with people outside of strictly speaking their direct co-workers.
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So I actually have like, I have clients that are in the police force.
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And I, one thing I found out was Oregon City specifically.
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Now, I can't speak for Gladstone because I didn't sort of say anything.
15:02
Neighboring city though.
15:03
Neighboring city.
15:04
But in Oregon City specifically, they pay the police department pay the news to not report
15:11
on anything that involves police specifically.
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So in Gladstone, since this does involve a police officer, it may never have even come
15:19
to service because the fact that they might have done that as well.
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I can't fare for that.
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I can't speak for Oregon City.
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I know police have paid to keep anything that involves the police force on the hush on
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the deal.
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And whether they're paying for it or they're using, you know, political muscle, whatever that
15:36
would be.
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I mean, clearly that's not something that we're unaware of as a possibility.
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Right.
15:43
Yeah.
15:44
Now that we've got some of our background context out of the way, let's go forward.
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And actually still back in time, you get it.
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You're like, yeah, no, no, but that's just what this helps with that.
15:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:58
You're like, just go with the flow.
16:00
You know, as long as my cup is overflow, if I'm good with whatever's exactly my way.
16:07
On that fateful day, May 28, 2011, Debbie Higbee Benton's last client left her salon.
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The Gladstone Beauty Salon, somewhere between 3.30 and 4 p.m.
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She had a previously scheduled dinner event later that evening at 6.
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But she never showed up.
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That's when two of Debbie's friends became concerned.
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They were worried enough that they actually contacted a business nearby to see if someone
16:40
might be able to check on Debbie and assuage their fears.
16:43
Do they say which one it was?
16:47
It may have in the source material.
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I think I didn't include that because it was like, well, it's a neighboring business.
16:53
Right.
16:54
What difference does it make if it was a gas station, a liquor store?
16:57
You know what I mean?
17:00
There are some details specifically about who they speak with and their response that I
17:07
very pointedly did include.
17:09
And I think are very interesting.
17:12
It's very interesting.
17:15
I would imagine it's totally possible she could have gotten tied up with a client.
17:20
You know, I mean, maybe you have a color service or something that runs long.
17:25
Right.
17:26
Like, every time you see me, it never goes as planned.
17:30
Never.
17:31
Because you'll be like, I just need a touch up in my no-bitch.
17:34
You need an entire makeover.
17:35
Let's do this.
17:36
Yeah.
17:37
Start over.
17:38
You look like your hairdresser has neglected you.
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Never laugh, it's like, I've got to talk to her.
17:45
Gosh.
17:46
I mean, I'm so busy too.
17:48
That is true.
17:49
That is true.
17:50
But you've never taken advantage.
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That's the one thing about Caitlyn.
17:53
She never takes advantage.
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I've always, even when I was first doing hair, I always came to her and was like, let me do
18:00
your hair, right?
18:01
You never took advantage.
18:02
You want to took you to the beauty supply store.
18:04
You'd always be like, well, are you sure it's okay that I'm here?
18:07
I'm like, yes.
18:08
You're like, well, if it wasn't, they would have kicked you out.
18:11
Exactly.
18:12
If you're with me, we're good.
18:13
No, you've never taken advantage of it.
18:15
So, yeah.
18:16
Well, I know it takes a lot of time.
18:18
We're both busy and it's, yeah, I don't know.
18:22
It works out.
18:23
You know what?
18:24
It works out.
18:25
You become a new woman every single time.
18:26
Yeah.
18:27
You have to have valid ID to prove to Chris that it's really you after I've done a little
18:31
bit.
18:32
A little bit.
18:33
Yeah.
18:34
Just like I made you super blonde the last time and you've never been that blonde before.
18:37
You've always just wanted to stick to like the level eight and that's like that we're
18:41
going to platinum.
18:42
We're doing it because I said so.
18:44
And I was like, yes, man.
18:45
I was like, I don't know.
18:48
Yeah.
18:49
And she did.
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She straddled me.
18:51
Well, I was supposed to be kept as secret.
18:54
No.
18:55
I'm not about it.
18:57
Shh.
18:58
I only do that for specific clients.
19:02
Okay.
19:03
Not everyone gets the straddle.
19:04
Okay.
19:05
I just want to put that out.
19:06
Not everybody gets the straddle.
19:07
Yeah.
19:08
Yeah.
19:09
You know what?
19:10
They're going to go back and listen to those old episodes that we did where we have the mirror
19:13
magic ads in there.
19:15
And they're going to be like, Oh, good.
19:16
I found the number.
19:17
Well, the number doesn't actually work anymore.
19:20
Yeah.
19:21
I'll say that.
19:22
Yeah.
19:23
There's that.
19:24
You guys sorry about that.
19:25
Sorry about that.
19:26
Just my cell phone.
19:27
Yeah.
19:28
It's okay.
19:29
Now we can now we can tag you in the show now.
19:31
It's so.
19:32
It's so fancy.
19:33
I am.
19:34
Yeah.
19:35
We can play that song.
19:36
I'm so.
19:37
Oh, I think if you're singing it and it's just a short clip, it's fine.
19:40
Yeah.
19:41
So I'm so fancy.
19:43
Yeah.
19:44
You already know.
19:46
That's all I know.
19:47
Yeah.
19:48
You're like, see that was fine.
19:50
I don't listen to her songs ever.
19:54
The color.
19:55
Oh, my God.
19:57
But for the record though, if this was us, I'd go fully into panic mode because I know that
20:02
like if you have a service or you know, people kind of show up late, things like that, like
20:08
this schedule is kind of fluid.
20:10
And like, but you would do that.
20:13
She has to make me text message her as soon as I get home.
20:15
So I do that to everyone.
20:16
You would panic.
20:17
Caitlyn would be the person that you want to be friends with because she would make sure
20:20
you're still alive and breathing.
20:22
She's.
20:23
Yeah.
20:24
You're on top of that.
20:25
Yeah.
20:26
I, this is so funny because I did this to my mom.
20:29
She was going to go to a friends after she left our house on Thanksgiving.
20:34
And I was like, okay, I need you to text me when you get there.
20:38
And she did.
20:39
And I thought that I had already like done at least the tap react or something like responded.
20:45
And I forgot for like an hour.
20:47
And then I texted her back.
20:48
I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
20:49
I saw this.
20:50
I want you to know that I saw it.
20:52
I just forgot to respond because I was like, I don't want people to think that I don't
20:56
check.
20:58
And then not texting.
20:59
Hey, I did my due diligence.
21:00
I don't care if you check or not.
21:01
I let you know.
21:02
So if you don't check it, that's on you.
21:04
I don't really care.
21:05
Well, I know, but I just think about it.
21:06
Like, why the hell am I like because you're a compassionate person.
21:10
I know.
21:11
No, I'm just saying I just don't want people to think, well, why the hell am I going to the
21:15
trouble of texting you?
21:16
No, I think you're not even keeping track.
21:18
No, no, no, Caitlyn's just a very caring person.
21:20
And that's how she is.
21:21
That's why we're friends.
21:22
Yeah.
21:23
Yeah.
21:24
Yeah.
21:25
Yeah.
21:26
She's practically the only one.
21:27
So, man, yeah, mother Teresa over here, you just minus the sex trafficking.
21:33
Oh, yeah.
21:35
You know, it takes a while to adjust to.
21:37
There's so many public figures that you're just like, oh, actually, that's not a good thing
21:41
anymore.
21:42
Yikes.
21:43
All right.
21:45
Speaking of not good things.
21:46
On to the next one.
21:47
On to the next one.
21:49
Yeah.
21:50
I guess this is as good a time as any to mention that Debbie's aforementioned a strange
21:55
spouse worked for the Gladstone Police Department.
21:59
Okay.
22:00
Just in case that wasn't like abundantly clear, I feel like I did mention that in.
22:04
Yeah.
22:05
Yeah.
22:06
And I think that's a nut like obviously if you're with a police officer, we've seen
22:09
movies like they don't stray from the truth.
22:12
Like, they're she was pretty isolated.
22:14
Let's be honest because there's no way that you can just go shun from the rooftops that
22:18
your spouse is abusing you when they're a police officer.
22:22
Now, have they served the whole time or were they were or did they just recently
22:25
become a police officer or before?
22:26
No, they had already been a police officer for quite some time.
22:30
And I do have a little bit more information about their 10 years.
22:33
So yeah.
22:34
I'll stop talking.
22:36
Yeah.
22:37
No, you're good.
22:38
Okay.
22:39
But it's, you know, if you have somebody that works in law enforcement and that's your
22:42
spouse in my notes that says, so I guess in that case, I just have to call the SWAT team
22:47
to be safe.
22:48
Yes.
22:49
Obviously.
22:50
Because it's like, who do you call when, you know, the cops are the one that are putting
22:53
you in danger?
22:54
Right.
22:55
So it's so special.
22:56
Well, I just put it in.
22:57
Yeah.
22:58
I put it in the strips appropriate.
23:00
Maybe not.
23:01
I don't know.
23:02
Yeah.
23:03
I don't know either.
23:04
We don't really worry about the appropriateness too much.
23:08
But no, but it's absolutely true.
23:10
It's like, who do you call when your spouse is in the middle of like the dilemma?
23:17
Because you don't call it police to be like, right?
23:20
Right.
23:21
And this is not the first case that we've talked about where the victim, you know, was in
23:29
a relationship with somebody who worked in law enforcement where spoiler alert, this
23:35
exact same thing happened.
23:37
So fortunately, they did not have any children because we talked about a Crystal Brame from
23:47
up in the Bremerton area who her ex-husband basically attacked her in a strip mall parking
23:54
law and killed her and himself in front of their children.
24:01
What?
24:02
When?
24:03
This, I mean, I can't remember the year exactly, but this was fresh.
24:08
Oh my gosh.
24:09
Yeah.
24:10
So I mean, this is, did he even know or anything on why he did that?
24:13
What was the purpose of that?
24:14
I don't think he really needed to leave a note.
24:15
They were going through a very acrimonious divorce themselves.
24:20
There was a lot of information coming to light publicly about his wrongdoing in other areas.
24:28
So he decided to top it off, like add the chair and top and just, yeah, just orphan their
24:33
children.
24:34
But it doesn't make sense.
24:36
Yeah.
24:37
So I mean, that's kind of the situation that, you know, we're working with here where it's
24:42
like, okay, yeah, sure, you know, have problems with your current or ex partner, but, uh,
24:48
but no, it's a good thing there weren't any children involved because like, especially
24:52
from your children, they're forever scarred.
24:53
Oh, let's be honest.
24:55
That's, yeah, they're reliving that nightmare.
24:57
So luckily for this situation, they didn't have kids, but like, holy, yeah, he's never
25:02
understood that.
25:03
It's pretty crazy.
25:06
Anyway, an employee at the business they contacted, because now we're circling back.
25:10
The friends were alarmed.
25:12
They, you know, made a call to a neighboring business.
25:15
Um, an employee at the business they contacted who happened to be an off-duty firefighter.
25:22
Took their concerns pretty seriously and followed the call up by going to the Gladstone Police
25:27
Department and even making contact with Lynn.
25:30
Now I can understand why, you know, firefighters and police, I feel like, I'm sure it's different
25:36
everywhere, but I feel like in all of the movies and stuff, they're like, you know, they
25:40
butt heads and they're like kind of at odds with each other.
25:44
Seems like this guy was like, nope, that's the move.
25:47
Um, he's like, yeah, he's like, I hate the police.
25:50
So I'm like, they're with you.
25:52
I'm going to go check.
25:53
Yeah.
25:54
No, he even made contact with Lynn.
25:58
So he goes to the police department and specifically speaks to Lynn.
26:01
So I don't take issue with the escalation or the sense of urgency at all.
26:08
Obviously freak out more people.
26:10
Right.
26:11
Right.
26:12
But what I do take issue with, and admittedly, I don't know, um, that person's specific
26:17
circumstance, but does anyone else think it's a problem that a firefighter apparently needs
26:22
to moonlight just to go totally off topic?
26:26
Why does a firefighter need a second job?
26:29
Their first job is already so physically demanding.
26:32
Yeah, but there's a lot of that I service.
26:36
They are volunteers.
26:38
And that's why it's part time.
26:39
Yeah, this was an volunteer one.
26:41
And he's like, oh, well, that's, yeah, that's not how the heck does that work because they
26:46
make you work for like 48, 72 hours or whatever.
26:50
Yeah, no, they have kind of crazy schedules.
26:52
I mean, I don't know, good on them for caring and following through, you know, to check on
26:57
Debbie.
26:58
However, I just feel like he worked part time at the hair salon too.
27:02
Like not at this salon.
27:03
He was at the neighboring business.
27:04
Oh, okay.
27:05
Okay.
27:06
Okay.
27:07
He had a pretty intense job.
27:08
So like maybe when they're not fighting fires, we should be paying them enough that they
27:13
can afford to.
27:14
No, no, absolutely.
27:15
Because how would you, how would that even work?
27:20
I don't know.
27:21
I just feel like, you know, probably this person should build work just that one super high
27:25
stress, very high pressure job, you know, have some downtime occasionally and still continue
27:31
to live indoors.
27:32
Yeah.
27:33
And it's extremely, it's not only physically, but it's a mentally demanding job because
27:38
it's because they usually are the first to show up on a scene.
27:42
So it doesn't matter if it's a hostage situation, it doesn't matter if it's somebody who's
27:47
calling because, oh, and you know, part attack or heart attack or I've heard those, I've
27:52
heard those before.
27:53
Yeah.
27:54
But it's like, they're the first on the scene and they are the ones that usually have to
27:59
divulge and like jump into whatever's happening for so I can't imagine trying to when you get
28:06
off, you know, when you get off, yes.
28:08
And then going to a second job.
28:10
Yep.
28:11
I can't imagine that.
28:12
Pretty wild.
28:13
Yeah.
28:14
I just for, for whatever reason, probably just because I'm so, my awareness is very heightened
28:19
about our current capitalistic hell-scape.
28:23
I just, I just really glommed on to that because I was like, why is this why?
28:29
A firefighter working like some, you know, part-time retail job.
28:33
I don't know who knows.
28:35
Maybe he's just a guy who's like, is working super hard because he wants to pay like down
28:40
student debt or wants to buy house or whatever.
28:43
You know, maybe it, I don't know his situation.
28:46
I just was like, and now I'm angry about that, you know.
28:52
It was just before 9 p.m. when Lynn and the off duty firefighter visited the Gladstone
28:57
Beauty salon to check on Debbie.
29:00
Seriously, though, this firefighter is a real one.
29:04
Apparently, they do not punch out from being a public servant literally ever because he's
29:10
working a second job and then wraps that up and is like, oh, here, let me just go be a good
29:16
smaritan on my free time.
29:18
You know, all 15 minutes of it before my next show.
29:22
Right.
29:23
Right.
29:24
What?
29:25
So, Lynn had a key to their wife's salon.
29:29
When, yeah, apparently.
29:33
I know.
29:34
I thought that was interesting as well.
29:36
When they entered, the pair quickly found poor Debbie dead in the back storage room.
29:43
According to court documents, as soon as Benton went back to the office and turned on the
29:47
light, Sergeant Benton let out a blood-curdling scream.
29:53
From there, man.
29:54
Oh, my God.
29:55
Yeah.
29:56
From their law enforcement and Lynn's attorney differ on what happened inside this salon.
30:06
Lynn's defense claims that as a trained paramedic, they were able to determine that Debbie
30:10
was gone.
30:12
Basically, she was beyond saving.
30:14
She was stiff and had no pulse.
30:17
Its law enforcement's assertion that Lynn made no attempt to revive Debbie, which as the
30:23
spouse, even with that sort of training to me, that seems sus is all hell.
30:28
No, it totally is sus because usually, even if they know, they still try to resist to
30:33
take--
30:34
They still try.
30:35
Yeah, they still try.
30:36
And then they'll be like, okay, dead on arrival, sort of thing.
30:38
Yeah.
30:39
The deal way.
30:40
But that, no, that is-- oh, yep, they looked dead.
30:43
Well, let's clear out.
30:44
Let's clear out.
30:45
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
30:46
Obviously, I wasn't there.
30:47
I didn't witness the condition of the body.
30:50
I could see where, if there's obvious brain matter on the floor, a situation like that,
30:57
but I will say, there are cases where even in those situations, brain matter exposed--
31:03
Yes, they still try.
31:04
Yeah, but they still try.
31:06
I don't know.
31:07
I mean, obviously, they were not on the best terms, but you would think, hey, especially
31:12
as the spouse, maybe I'm really motivated to save this person, even though I may not be
31:18
super in love with them anymore, because, guess what?
31:22
You are going to be the first suspect.
31:24
Absolutely.
31:25
Even if you were in what outwardly appears to be a happy marriage.
31:30
So just something to think about.
31:33
I mean, training is one thing, but other than making a little bit of noise, you are not going
31:38
to exhibit any concern for this person, your partner.
31:42
I just-- I don't know.
31:43
I wasn't there, so I really can't say it, but the latter isn't.
31:46
It's not a good look.
31:47
No, not at all.
31:51
Yeah, not at all.
31:52
Especially if the sergeant, or whoever it was, it had found.
31:56
Because Lynn was there, too.
31:58
Yes.
31:59
Lynn is the one that made the discovery.
32:01
Okay.
32:02
Yeah.
32:03
I mean, it's two people, essentially.
32:06
It's a firefighter who also happens to be Debbie's partner, a strange partner at this point,
32:12
and then a firefighter.
32:13
So yeah, I could see where maybe you don't go into complete hysterics.
32:18
Maybe the scream as he's discovering the body is sort of just a reaction, just a reaction
32:26
or anything.
32:27
And I'm going to say they, because I don't know at the point of the discovery of Debbie's
32:35
body, I don't know specifically that I could pinpoint what the pronouns were at that
32:43
point.
32:44
It is, there's a lot of that where it's a little bit tough to precisely determine, you
32:52
know, a timeline for that.
32:56
So and, you know, just out of respect in that regard.
33:00
But Lynn reportedly immediately called for police assistance, because you know what a cop
33:06
needs when there's a dead body is more cops.
33:12
Absolutely.
33:13
Because I think they, I mean, arguably like, yeah, you need more people there.
33:18
But I just am like, instead of calling an ambulance, they just call more police.
33:23
That's my understanding.
33:24
I don't know if they, I mean, typically when the cops are calling for assistance, like they
33:31
are calling directly to a dispatcher.
33:35
And so they're going to basically relay the situation.
33:38
I don't know that in this case, I mean, if you really want to get down to like splitting
33:43
hairs down to brass tacks, I don't know that they specifically said, like, I need backup
33:48
or that they said, like, we've got a body, you know, that sort of thing.
33:53
So I think sometimes that's more down to like the dispatcher is interpreting what the
34:00
situation requires.
34:02
But I just, I hate you Lynn.
34:04
So isn't this all like usually, aren't there police reports?
34:10
And isn't it, wouldn't it be in a police report saying like, generally what it, yeah, I mean,
34:15
you do have sort of a general sense of, but I don't know that you can adequately get
34:22
direct quotes about like, okay, this is specifically what I told the dispatcher.
34:28
You can oftentimes if they are released for public record, the 911 call itself.
34:35
Right.
34:36
And that's why I was like, usually when things go to trial, things are public.
34:39
And that's the reason why I was like, this wasn't even.
34:41
But I mean, I feel like it is and it isn't.
34:45
Is that makes sense?
34:47
And we will have a little bit more.
34:51
Oh, okay.
34:54
As you may imagine, under the circumstances, help was quickly on the way.
34:59
Another police sergeant arrived in just two minutes, which is a hell of a response time.
35:05
It's not bad.
35:08
At that point, the defense takes, it's also what 2011?
35:12
No, 2011.
35:13
It's, please response was different.
35:17
And then after COVID, it changed.
35:19
So yeah, yeah, during and after COVID, there's been some differences.
35:24
So are we really shocked before COVID that they responded?
35:28
No.
35:29
Yeah.
35:30
At that point, the defense states that Sergeant Lynn was visibly upset and crying, crying
35:37
and sobbing.
35:40
And honestly, who wouldn't be after discovering their spouse estranged or not in this manner?
35:47
But it just feels a little bit like it was a bit of a light switch situation.
35:51
Like, oh, really?
35:53
Yeah, like you're putting on the airs.
35:57
You know what I mean?
35:58
Yeah.
35:59
Yeah.
36:00
Yeah.
36:01
What did deflect like any sort of suspicion?
36:03
Oh, yeah.
36:04
Authorities said it wasn't until her autopsy that it was determined she had been shot in the
36:09
back and had also been strangled, ruling her death as a homicide.
36:15
Because anybody's shooting and strangling themselves.
36:18
Well, not to my knowledge.
36:23
I love today.
36:25
She's rolling through her rolodex.
36:27
Yeah, but many times have I heard of a murder where they strangled themselves and then
36:31
yeah, I don't know.
36:32
I don't like so far none.
36:34
Yeah, so far none.
36:36
So I mean, at this point, basically, everyone is just asking, how could someone be driven
36:40
to commit such a brutal crime against her?
36:44
Seems like she again, you know, really?
36:46
Well, especially for Gladstone because it's a super small town.
36:49
So totally understandable.
36:50
Yeah.
36:51
I think, although I would say like you're just outside of Portland, this is also 2011.
36:56
Maybe let's can the, you know, it feels a little insincere just to be like so shocked.
37:05
Like, oh, this doesn't happen here.
37:06
It's like, well, crime happens everywhere.
37:08
Oh, not in a glass stone.
37:10
It's a bubble.
37:11
It's perfect.
37:12
Okay.
37:13
The who's from who built it in Gladstone during the rest of the season.
37:16
Oh my God.
37:17
Come on.
37:18
Come on.
37:19
It's like, I mean, it is.
37:22
It's a very, it's a very like homey feeling town or I mean, to some degree, so I feel like
37:30
there's a lot of areas of Gladstone there.
37:32
But you're actually correct because yeah, crime happens all the time.
37:36
I know that's really shocking, but I'm not just talking in general.
37:39
I mean, like, in Gladstone, like, three days ago, I'd do just murder his mom.
37:44
So yeah, it's not, I get it.
37:46
Yes.
37:47
It's not.
37:48
It just feels a little disingenuous.
37:49
But they all had surprised me.
37:50
Did you face somebody who died a little bit?
37:52
Yeah, it's like, oh, people get murdered.
37:55
Like, I've never heard of murder.
37:57
Yeah.
37:58
Okay.
37:59
It's a new concept.
38:00
It is a new concept.
38:01
That's why I'm, I have surprised me.
38:02
Good to face.
38:03
Yeah.
38:04
I feel like Gladstone of all places claiming to be, you know, in shock and awe is a little, it's
38:12
a little rich for me, but that's fine.
38:14
Well, it's because you're not from Gladstone.
38:16
You're not a Gladstoneian.
38:18
Okay.
38:19
Oh, my God.
38:20
I'm true Gladstoneian of what makes me surprised.
38:23
It would be shocking.
38:26
Initially, the deputy medical examiner had determined Debbie's death was caused by a heart
38:32
attack.
38:33
Of course, that was prior to any autopsy being performed at the Oregon State Medical Examiner's
38:38
office in Clackamas the following day.
38:42
Debbie's cause of death was determined not only to be homicide, but furthermore, the result
38:47
of, and this is a quote from the reporting, a gunshot wound of the back neck compression
38:57
strangulation and blunt force chest and abdominal trauma.
39:03
That's a lot of violence inflicted on the body.
39:06
I will say that.
39:09
True crime officionados will not be surprised at all to learn that a certain sergeant in
39:15
the Gladstone Police Department was of interest to the authorities as they continued to investigate.
39:20
What's that thing?
39:23
We hear and we say it all the time.
39:26
Oh, right.
39:28
The husband did it.
39:29
I have a look on the edge of my seat.
39:32
What do we say?
39:34
Yes.
39:35
Yes.
39:36
It's usually the spouse generally speaking.
39:39
Yes.
39:40
Usually these days it feels like for an average woman, the only thing on par in terms of just
39:46
risk of bodily harm with walking down a dark alley is the dangerous endeavor of becoming
39:55
pregnant or pissing off a romantic partner.
39:58
Same.
39:59
That's the other thing to keep in mind is anytime there's some sort of strangulation.
40:05
It's very personal.
40:07
Yes, it's personal.
40:09
That's how you know it has me.
40:10
It doesn't help it quickly.
40:11
It's just they had time to think about it.
40:13
Exactly.
40:14
That's why I'm like, because being that close to somebody and there is rage behind there.
40:22
It is personal.
40:23
That's why it's like, I'm like, I got strangled and shocked.
40:27
I don't know how much you recall from when you have read about this case in the past,
40:32
but I think you will be a little bit surprised about the specifics because we are going to
40:37
get into a little bit about the conspiracy and who all was involved in what.
40:44
So I'm not going to get into the weeds on the statistics here, but I'm pretty sure I
40:49
don't have to.
40:50
For every single one of us that's in a happy, healthy relationship, we can point to at least
40:57
one Lacey Peterson, which I mean, I feel bad saying that because it's not anything that
41:07
she had ever done wrong.
41:10
Unfortunately, the only mistake that she made was picking a man that valued his freedom
41:16
more than her life and was a piece of shit and a lying sack of shit.
41:21
While as long as people live on the surf, they're going to have murderers.
41:25
I mean, are we really shocked?
41:27
Just selfish evil people.
41:29
I know.
41:30
And I think the part that gets me is you married this person.
41:34
You got an abandoned knee and asked to marry them or ask them to marry you.
41:41
You decided, "I'm done with you."
41:44
"Kapow."
41:45
And that's just what mind-blowing is.
41:50
You almost have to be psychopathic or sociopath or something to be able to kill the person
41:57
that you married.
41:59
It's pretty wild.
42:01
And I feel like probably the thing that people will maybe focus in on is that I'm saying it's
42:11
so dangerous for a woman, basically, to become pregnant or have a romantic partner.
42:20
In one sense, that feels like a hot take.
42:23
But not really when you consider how many pregnant women are murdered.
42:30
How many women are murdered by their partners?
42:32
So I don't know whether I'm right or wrong.
42:35
Feel free to light up the comments, guys.
42:36
We could use the engagement.
42:39
And it's your attention that we crave in this capitalistic hell-scape.
42:45
Some interesting information came to light about Lynn Benton as they began to investigate.
42:52
Because remember, now Lynn is all of a sudden a very interesting person to the police.
42:58
They were actually fired by the police department after 24 years of service as a police officer,
43:07
which feels another hot take here.
43:10
Honestly, it feels damn near impossible to accomplish.
43:14
It really feels difficult for a cop to get fired.
43:17
Oh, no, absolutely.
43:18
Absolutely, absolutely.
43:20
Usually, they're, they get a slap on the wrist and I'm just going to keep it up.
43:26
Wow, you know, and I wouldn't slap too hard.
43:28
You don't want to hurt his wrist.
43:29
Right, right, right.
43:30
That's why I say it's usually like, don't do that again.
43:32
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
43:35
Yeah, no, I totally got it.
43:36
Yeah.
43:37
So this is kind of a really interesting.
43:39
I don't know that it is all that relevant specifically to the murder, but obviously we're
43:44
going to talk about it because it's very interesting background for Lynn.
43:48
Two reasons were cited for Lynn's termination by the chief of police when a when an official
43:54
statement was issued.
43:56
Number one.
43:58
The individual had married a Brazilian man in 1993 so that their companion or acquaintance
44:05
could obtain US citizenship.
44:08
Oh, don't they usually investigate that to make sure that it's like legit?
44:13
They sure do.
44:14
Yeah.
44:15
Yeah.
44:16
That's why you get in a lot of trouble when you when you do, when you do that.
44:20
Mm-hmm.
44:21
Number two.
44:22
The entity issued laptop, this employee possessed contained evidence that they had both viewed and
44:28
possessed pornographic material, which it's not illegal to possess porn.
44:34
And I'd like to think that most of our listeners know that we try to view things through a critical
44:39
and is even handed a lens as possible.
44:42
Okay, porn's not illegal, but like, was it that work?
44:45
That's just dumb.
44:46
It's a work computer.
44:48
Oh, that's just dumb.
44:50
Okay, yes.
44:51
Okay.
44:52
Yeah.
44:53
But it's like those people want to get caught.
44:55
Like they want to.
44:56
Right.
44:57
I'm sorry.
44:58
It's like, you know better.
44:59
There's going to be some sort of monitoring.
45:01
I mean, this is like sometime between 1993 and 2010.
45:08
So maybe they didn't realize.
45:09
I don't know.
45:11
I don't work for the government or in nearly as important a role as Linda, but you know what?
45:16
I don't do.
45:18
I think I'll porn on my work laptop, not once, never done it.
45:22
Well, you need to do it.
45:23
You just need to do it one time.
45:25
Just one time.
45:26
And then you'll know you'll understand.
45:27
You'll understand.
45:28
And frankly, I'd like to collect my metal now if we're just giving them away.
45:35
You know, for not watching the porn.
45:38
While it work.
45:39
Let's add that while it works.
45:41
Yeah, I think they were probably off the clock, but you're using a like, you know,
45:45
but you're so using a work.
45:46
Exactly.
45:47
You're saying, you're asking for a good point.
45:52
Not good.
45:54
As a millennial, I don't want to catch flag for getting a participation trophy, but I
45:58
feel like a non-participation trophy should be fine because I didn't participate in the
46:03
watching the work.
46:04
Do I get one too?
46:05
Yeah.
46:06
Let's award ourselves trophies for not watching porn.
46:09
I will.
46:10
It'll be big enough for our work devices.
46:12
That's my fireplace.
46:13
There you go.
46:14
Huge.
46:15
Yeah.
46:16
Huge.
46:17
I know.
46:18
And the doughnut too.
46:21
So you might recall that I mentioned accomplices at the top.
46:24
Yes.
46:25
Yes.
46:26
Yes.
46:27
Well, how else do you seamlessly orchestrate the cold blooded murder of your spouse whilst
46:32
maintaining an alibi?
46:34
Many have tried and failed.
46:36
But I'm sure this crack team has it in the bag.
46:39
Spoiler alert, they super did not have this.
46:44
They really did not nail it.
46:45
They did not stick the landing.
46:49
Susan Ellen Campbell was arrested within days of Debbie Benton's murder, though this individual
46:54
had no criminal history.
46:58
But there was also the troubling fact that authorities could find no evidence of a robbery.
47:04
So I think that they were speculating that the salon had been broken into and that it
47:11
was like motive was robbery.
47:14
And I'm like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
47:16
You know, kind of makes you wonder who was the person who threw that out.
47:19
Yeah.
47:20
It does.
47:21
Like, it's so funny.
47:22
That's exactly what I was.
47:23
It looks like a robbery.
47:24
It looks like a robbery.
47:25
It looks like a robbery.
47:26
All the big caches that are usually being killed missing.
47:31
He just goes like real old timey.
47:35
Campbell, Lynn Benton's friend, became a person of interest after a neighbor called
47:40
police with concerns.
47:42
The authorities then coordinated with a neighbor to record a call where Campbell and the neighbor
47:49
discussed plans to cover up the crime.
47:52
And Lynn also admitted to wanting their wife dead.
47:55
So just recorded them basically plotting out the whole murder.
47:59
So what is it like one of the nosey neighbors that's like, hey, girl, hey, just like checking
48:04
with you.
48:05
Want to know what's going on?
48:07
What's up?
48:08
What's up?
48:09
Oh, yeah.
48:10
I know you with that.
48:11
I know somebody who knows somebody.
48:14
Campbell's son also claimed to have overheard Benton offer $2,000 to commit the crime.
48:22
Which is not a lot of money for this type of you going to like federal, well, maybe not
48:28
federal.
48:29
Okay.
48:30
But you're going away for a long time.
48:32
But that's only if you're caught, right?
48:33
They didn't expect to be caught.
48:35
So $2,000 is a lot of money when.
48:37
Yeah.
48:40
When you think you're for sure getting away with it.
48:42
The payment was never processed largely because it was reportedly supposed to come from
48:47
a safe deposit box that Debbie blocked Lynn from accessing.
48:53
So before she was murdered, she was able to stop Lynn from accessing their safety deposit
48:59
box, which had money or something of value that they were going to use to pay for the hit
49:08
on her, which is just lovely.
49:12
Usually people say more money, more problems.
49:14
But I guess since this whole plot fell apart pretty quickly, it probably doesn't really matter.
49:20
How many commas were involved?
49:22
Okay.
49:23
Yeah.
49:24
I see what I did there.
49:25
I was like, I don't think it matters how many commas were involved because it's like, I get
49:32
it zero, zero, zero commas, zero, zero commas, zero, zero.
49:35
Yeah.
49:36
It's a thinker.
49:37
It is.
49:38
It is.
49:39
But I picked up what you were throwing down.
49:40
It's doing it.
49:41
I picked it up.
49:42
I picked up what you were throwing down.
49:43
I got at a bill hearing that December, it came to light that Campbell had confessed, though
49:50
not outright.
49:51
They stating that they had participated in the crime.
49:56
They were like, I was a participant in the crime.
49:59
I was just the driver.
50:00
Okay.
50:01
I was just making sure the car was warm.
50:04
The story was that Campbell had been paid a sum of $2,000 by Lynn Benton to collect Debbie.
50:10
Oh, allegedly.
50:11
Not so much.
50:12
Not so allegedly at this point.
50:13
Wait, but I thought you said the money was in the safety deposit.
50:16
I know.
50:17
So I think the plan was to pay them 2000.
50:19
They got the IOU, right?
50:21
Just worth more.
50:22
Exactly.
50:23
Exactly.
50:24
Yeah.
50:25
I assume they're tacking on interest.
50:26
I don't know.
50:27
Right.
50:28
So they were going to be paid a sum of $2,000 by Lynn Benton to kill Debbie in the Gladstone
50:35
Beauty Salon that May.
50:39
Debbie had been shot in the back of the head with a 25 caliber semi-automatic handgun,
50:45
though that wasn't enough to ring the life from that poor woman.
50:50
She'd been beaten with numerous broken ribs, a lacerated liver, as well as one of the
50:55
telltale signs of strangulation, a fractured thorax.
51:02
The Clackamas County was quoted as saying of the crime, "It was kill, kill, and overkill."
51:10
I hope to never utter the phrase lacerated liver or the like again, but then if that was
51:17
a serious life goal, I probably should have chosen something.
51:20
Other than true crime to podcast about.
51:24
You know when you start saying things out loud or I don't know how many book reports you're
51:31
writing of late, but as I'm writing my notes sometimes, I'm like, "Man, this is a little
51:36
bit of a bummer."
51:37
And I'm like, "Yeah, this is actually a hundred percent, your fault."
51:42
You could have started a podcast about anything, technically.
51:47
That is true.
51:48
That is true.
51:49
They are.
51:51
When questioned about the murder, Lynn was asked for all cell phones in their possession.
51:57
They claim to only have a work phone, handing it over willingly, almost suspiciously so.
52:04
Like they gave it up too easily.
52:07
Lynn.
52:08
Now, don't you think though like being that they're part of the police academy they didn't want,
52:13
even though it is suspicious, don't get more access, but they didn't want to cast suspicion
52:17
so they're like, "Here you go."
52:19
Wait, wait, wait.
52:20
I just had to lay a few things here.
52:22
I think we'll get to the end of the paragraph and I think you'll realize.
52:28
Yeah.
52:29
So they claim to have only a work phone and they're like, "Here, yeah."
52:35
And they're, "Mm, I don't know.
52:36
That was almost too easy."
52:38
And just then the detective heard a noise coming from their jacket pocket at which point
52:45
Lynn buried their head in their hands, cursing.
52:50
Okay, so word of advice.
52:53
If you're going to try to conceal a secondary phone, like a burner or just a separate personal
53:00
phone, you might want to make sure that it's at least on silence in the presence of police
53:07
or don't because we all live for terrible people getting caught in the wake of their own
53:12
credit.
53:13
Yeah, yeah.
53:14
They stupid.
53:15
Yeah.
53:16
The record's pertaining to calls and text messages on the day of the murder had been erased.
53:23
But nothing has ever really, truly erased for good, right?
53:28
And as a police officer, they should know this.
53:31
Hello.
53:32
Yeah.
53:33
Hello.
53:34
They should know this.
53:35
Such remarkable little devices these are.
53:38
Imagine that.
53:40
Hello.
53:41
Tippy's canoes.
53:42
I don't know, right?
53:44
Oh my god.
53:45
Do you like that?
53:46
I actually put that in my notebook.
53:49
You did?
53:50
I had to reread it six times and I realized it was part of the skit and I was like, what?
53:54
I know.
53:55
I was like, what?
53:56
Is that part of the murder?
53:58
Is that how she answered her phone?
54:00
Was Tippy's canoes?
54:01
So people didn't know what was going on.
54:04
And then I realized it was a joke.
54:06
You're like, oh, she's just joshing.
54:11
That jokes.
54:12
That jokes for days.
54:16
Former Gladstone police sergeant Lynn Benton was a reigned via video from the Clackamas
54:20
County jail on murder charges before Judge Jeffrey S. Jones.
54:25
It's a lot of jays at the Clackamas County Courthouse in Oregon City on November 8, 2012.
54:33
Ultimately, Lynn was sentenced to life in prison without parole.
54:39
And that's the end, right?
54:41
Done, done, done.
54:42
I love feeling it's not.
54:45
She knows that she only got fed a portion of the story.
54:48
I only had a portion.
54:49
Yeah.
54:50
I didn't send you everything.
54:51
Yeah.
54:52
I'd love to tell you that that's where our story ends.
54:55
And in fact, when I first started researching the case, I believed that to be a wrap.
55:02
As I read through the legalese in the detailed timeline of the court records, suddenly
55:09
as 2023 and 2024 progressed, it seemed like the initial indictment might be amended, which
55:20
was scary and confusing.
55:24
There's a lot of language around protecting both medical and financial records.
55:29
And though it's not made plain, I'm sure this pertains to Lynn, but I suppose the records
55:35
very well could pertain to others involved in the case, maybe Debbie or perhaps even those
55:41
that testified.
55:44
When I made my way down to the end of April, 2024, in the timeline I read, the indictment
55:51
dated November 6, 2012 remains in force.
55:59
Still as I realized, there was a significant amount to scroll through.
56:03
It seemed like this might not be over, like at all.
56:07
Finally, on the spookiest of all days, October 31, all hallows eve, one of many interesting
56:15
court filings appears in the timeline of the case record, specifically a motion to order
56:22
disclosure of grand jury testimony in the alternative motion for in-camera review, which I realized
56:31
may not sound that spicy.
56:33
But here we go.
56:35
A motion to order disclosure of grand jury testimony in the alternative motion for in-camera
56:40
review means that a party is requesting that the court either order the disclosure of
56:46
grand jury testimony or permit an in-camera review of the testimony.
56:54
To obtain disclosure of grand jury transcripts, a party must show that the need for disclosure
57:00
outweighs the need for secrecy.
57:03
So all this is to say, this doesn't happen a lot.
57:07
The request must also be structured to cover only the material that is needed.
57:11
So it's not like, "Oh, okay, cool.
57:13
Yeah, you can just have all the access to the records."
57:17
It's, "Who are they giving the records to?"
57:20
Lynn?
57:21
That's a very good question.
57:24
There were also several motions to exclude evidence.
57:29
Then just the last few days, it looks like there has been some real movement in the case.
57:34
Because of course, usually after you're convicted of murder, there is a years-long appeal process.
57:41
Unless you just decide to go to prison and stay there.
57:46
Responses were received regarding the motions to exclude, as well as an entry indicating
57:50
that memorandum at law was granted.
57:55
And a memorandum of law is granted in a legal context.
57:59
It means that the court has reviewed the legal arguments presented in the memorandum and
58:04
has decided to rule in favor of the party who submitted it.
58:10
Essentially, citing with their interpretation of the law and applying it to the case facts
58:15
as presented.
58:18
So I can see on your face, what does this mean?
58:21
Yes.
58:22
That's why I'm like, "What?
58:23
Wait.
58:24
I need you to explain."
58:26
Well, not much yet, necessarily.
58:29
But the line items included for both forthcoming entries indicate that this is hardly the last
58:35
time this case will be discussed in a courtroom.
58:39
The simple explanation is that the court has overturned Lynn's conviction for Debbie's
58:44
murder, along with other related charges and sent them back to Clackamas County for
58:49
a new trial.
58:51
Return them why?
58:54
It's not entirely clear from reading some of what's available is very limited in the court
59:00
documents.
59:01
I've read a couple of articles.
59:04
People are not following this as closely because this case is pretty dated.
59:08
Yeah, it's kind of old.
59:11
But I'll ring you through what we have so far for future.
59:18
In fact, coming up right after Thanksgiving on December 2nd, this next week, the first round
59:24
motions in the second trial appear to be commencing.
59:28
Then just two days before Christmas, day two of the first round motions is scheduled
59:33
to continue if needed.
59:35
There are also already second round motion states scheduled coming up in March of 2025.
59:42
The day before my birthday, they've even already scheduled juror orientation.
59:48
And then just a few short days later, they apparently anticipate the start of a 12 person
59:54
jury trial to begin in early August 2025.
59:58
I hope I don't get a jury summons.
1:00:01
I know.
1:00:02
Actually, I do.
1:00:03
Guilty!
1:00:04
As soon as I show up, they'll be like, "You know these people?"
1:00:08
Yes, guilty!
1:00:09
You want dismissed.
1:00:10
Is that not mind blowing?
1:00:14
No, that is.
1:00:15
The fact that it's actually being done and carried out right now is what's mind blowing,
1:00:22
especially with all the evidence that was stacked up against this person.
1:00:26
Well, and I will say this, I do think what little that I've been able to glean from not
1:00:35
just the court documents, but the little bit of reporting that has come out about it where
1:00:40
there's some interpretation provided by other journalists.
1:00:46
It seems like this may not really be a situation where it's like, "Oh, you guys didn't have enough
1:00:53
evidence, but I do think there...it's more of a procedural issue."
1:01:00
So certain types of evidence, if it's permitted and it shouldn't happen, then that gets struck.
1:01:08
That can be grounds for a retrial.
1:01:09
So I think some of this may have more to do with the technical and administrative side than...
1:01:18
Which is so scary.
1:01:19
Well, I think, no, it absolutely is scary.
1:01:23
And I think the problem lies with the fact that it just goes to show that our court system
1:01:31
is screwed.
1:01:32
It's screwed up because the discrepancy between everything that had happened leading up
1:01:39
to that point and now they're like, "Oh, well, we're just going to give you a retrial."
1:01:42
And it's just like, "What?
1:01:44
You have a recorded conversation with them admitting that they planned it."
1:01:49
But, "Oh, no, it's probably too big."
1:01:51
I mean, well, I was just going to say, I don't know what pieces of evidence are being excluded
1:01:57
from the previous trial at this point.
1:01:59
So I've just...I've never really stumbled into a case that suddenly developing again,
1:02:06
quite like this before, usually I go into it knowing because that's how it comes to my attention.
1:02:14
The fact that it's being reopened is how it's sort of like back in the ether, if you will.
1:02:20
Who approved that?
1:02:21
Doesn't that have to be approved by a judge or something?
1:02:25
Yeah.
1:02:26
Yeah.
1:02:27
I mean, yeah, judges were involved.
1:02:28
I know.
1:02:29
She's just like, "I want answers."
1:02:30
No, I do because this doesn't mean...
1:02:32
Because you know if you were me, if this was you or me, not saying we would murder anybody.
1:02:37
But if this was you or me, they would be like, "Oh, they went to hell.
1:02:41
That's it.
1:02:42
They're going to die."
1:02:43
They went to hell.
1:02:44
Yeah, like ours.
1:02:45
It would be like sealed, signed, delivered, that's it.
1:02:49
There would be no retrial.
1:02:51
And even if we did ask for one, they'd be like, "Eh."
1:02:53
You know what I mean?
1:02:54
So that's why I just...
1:02:56
It blows my mind.
1:02:57
I don't know.
1:02:58
To me, it seems like...
1:02:59
I'm sorry, I'm so passionate about this.
1:03:01
I just don't feel like...
1:03:02
I feel like a lot of times the people who are supposed to be held accountable, a lot of
1:03:06
times don't get held accountable for the stuff that that gets done.
1:03:10
And yes, they went to prison, but now it's being reopened.
1:03:13
That means that they could literally just be like, "Oh, you never committed this murder."
1:03:18
Yeah, I mean, it's very possible.
1:03:20
Obviously, we're not going to know the outcome from this for quite a while.
1:03:26
And some of the details of what's changed are not exactly...
1:03:34
It's a lot of legalese, and I'm not an attorney or a prosecutor.
1:03:40
I do think that they've made it clear that there were some procedural issues.
1:03:47
They're...
1:03:48
We're definitely items included in the court proceedings that shouldn't have been.
1:03:53
Part of me wants to really dig into that.
1:03:56
I've shared a little bit...
1:03:59
The bombshell is that this is being reopened.
1:04:03
I do...
1:04:04
If we are able to learn a little bit more as it develops, I feel like that's when I would
1:04:12
kind of want to share a little bit more about the case and how now it's proceeding.
1:04:20
Yeah.
1:04:21
I mean, some of that...
1:04:23
There's a lot of things that we're just not going to know until the court proceedings take
1:04:27
place oftentimes.
1:04:30
Yeah.
1:04:31
Because the way that a lot of the court records work when you're looking at the case numbers
1:04:38
in Smart Search is you're just seeing kind of line items and dates.
1:04:44
It's not giving you very detailed information.
1:04:50
There aren't typically transcripts attached per se.
1:04:56
There's no interpretation.
1:04:58
This is literally just on this date, we will be providing jurors orientation.
1:05:05
And that's it.
1:05:08
I don't know.
1:05:09
This is just really wild to me, though, because we've talked about cases that were developing
1:05:19
as...
1:05:20
No, that's not what I want to say.
1:05:22
Well, see, my whole thing is like, it's surprising, but then at the same time, it's not.
1:05:29
If you think about it, because police officers are human.
1:05:33
Allegedly?
1:05:34
Allegedly.
1:05:35
Allegedly.
1:05:36
But the whole thing is...
1:05:40
Since we weren't there, we don't know how they processed, especially being that Lynn was
1:05:45
on the police force.
1:05:47
I wouldn't be surprised if things were mishandled.
1:05:51
So we've talked about this before on the show, though we're not network backed journalists.
1:05:57
We're just people working to create, hopefully the highest quality podcast and in general content
1:06:04
that we can in between everything else in our lives.
1:06:07
So I don't know.
1:06:09
I was just really happy to be able to present something that feels like kind of more like
1:06:14
breaking news.
1:06:15
I didn't anticipate that going in.
1:06:17
I had no idea about the retrial.
1:06:20
I had no idea.
1:06:21
I almost didn't include it because it's kind of buried in a lot of the source material.
1:06:26
It just is like, everything's about the initial case.
1:06:29
Absolutely, because even when I sent you information about it, I mean, they had little snippets,
1:06:33
but I was like, nothing to do with the retrial, though.
1:06:36
No.
1:06:37
Yeah.
1:06:38
And I bet you a lot of people don't know that.
1:06:40
I bet you a lot of people don't know that.
1:06:42
They probably kept it on the hush.
1:06:44
I do.
1:06:45
Yeah.
1:06:46
I mean, I think after a certain point, it's just, you know, there's more current stories.
1:06:51
And so that's going to be what gets the air time.
1:06:53
But there's actually more stuff that I didn't put into my regular notes.
1:06:59
But I'm going to save that for a little Patreon mini-sode.
1:07:02
Oh my gosh.
1:07:03
Yeah.
1:07:04
A couple more pages, I think, for them.
1:07:06
But, you know, just a little mini-sode action.
1:07:10
But for now, you want to get into some tarot.
1:07:14
Oh, I think I was going to say get into some tea.
1:07:17
And I was like, I guess I'd throw in tea.
1:07:19
I was like, tea, what kind of tea we talking about.
1:07:23
Oh, how beautiful.
1:07:26
Beautiful.
1:07:27
We already did our pre-shuff.
1:07:31
Okay.
1:07:32
Everyone?
1:07:33
Okay.
1:07:34
I'm going to draw.
1:07:35
Very professional in my shuffling skills.
1:07:38
Yeah.
1:07:39
Yeah.
1:07:40
It was expert.
1:07:41
All comical to try to watch you shuffle with those nails.
1:07:45
They're short.
1:07:46
What are you talking about?
1:07:48
Well, I'm comparison to some.
1:07:50
They're short.
1:07:51
That's no.
1:07:53
You're a crazy person.
1:07:55
Okay.
1:07:56
Do you know what one it is?
1:07:58
Yeah.
1:07:59
So Three of Wands.
1:08:00
Oh.
1:08:01
Okay.
1:08:02
That's what we got?
1:08:03
Yeah.
1:08:04
We got a bird.
1:08:07
She's pretty musical today.
1:08:09
Yeah.
1:08:10
I'm actually all the time.
1:08:12
You don't know.
1:08:13
You are actually on the whole, you're fairly musical.
1:08:19
Yes.
1:08:20
I should have been a Disney character.
1:08:22
It's never too late.
1:08:23
Our key words are creativity and skill, self-expression, growth, competence, and manifestation.
1:08:32
So what that stands for?
1:08:35
Yeah.
1:08:36
Okay.
1:08:37
Now is the time to show the world what you can do.
1:08:39
You've worked hard to develop your talents and have confidence in your abilities.
1:08:44
You feel passionately about what you do and believe you can inspire others.
1:08:49
Express yourself.
1:08:50
I'm not really.
1:08:52
I'm not sure that I'm finding the connection yet with the case.
1:08:58
Lynn express themselves.
1:09:00
Yeah.
1:09:01
Yeah.
1:09:02
Sure, dead.
1:09:03
Some of the expression I feel like--
1:09:04
There was an expression.
1:09:05
A long lasting impression of that expression.
1:09:08
Yeah.
1:09:09
I-- you know, the one thing I will say is it is kind of a trio that's associated with
1:09:15
the conspiracy.
1:09:16
So three of ones in that respect, at least, kind of makes sense to me.
1:09:20
But I'm going to read the rest of the interpretation.
1:09:27
You've developed a project, business, creative endeavor, or other venture, and now you're ready
1:09:33
to share it with others.
1:09:35
Like maybe you're co-conspirators.
1:09:37
I'm all about the conspiracies.
1:09:41
Yeah.
1:09:42
I mean, this one I'm not a fan of, I have to say.
1:09:45
By devoting yourself fully to your goal, you can succeed.
1:09:49
Do what's necessary to bring your dreams to fruition.
1:09:55
In a reading about money, the upright three shows increase and financial support coming
1:10:01
to you.
1:10:02
You may have to spend money to make money, but this card promises success.
1:10:07
Oh, man.
1:10:08
I feel like just the specific wording on that, because remember, they didn't actually spend
1:10:14
the money because they got blocked out of the safety deposit box.
1:10:17
That's true.
1:10:18
That you got to spend money to make money.
1:10:21
Like I'm sure that there was probably an element of like, oh, I'm going to collect on
1:10:25
the life insurance.
1:10:26
Oh, that makes me so nervous.
1:10:29
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:10:32
In a reading about work, this card suggests an exciting time when your efforts start to
1:10:37
bear fruit.
1:10:39
You're giving it your all, inspiring others and attracting people who are eager to help
1:10:44
you.
1:10:45
Your ideas begin to take form.
1:10:48
Collaboration can be beneficial.
1:10:50
Okay.
1:10:51
If you asked about a relationship, the three indicates a commitment, an engagement or
1:10:57
marriage.
1:10:58
Yeah, that irony.
1:10:59
Yeah.
1:11:00
You and a partner express passionate feelings for each other and celebrate your love, or maybe
1:11:06
you super don't.
1:11:08
Could be like hard left in completely the other direction.
1:11:13
You know, a lot of times, especially when DV is the thing, when you split, there is that
1:11:20
I don't want you to be with anybody else.
1:11:22
Right.
1:11:23
If I can't have you, then no one can.
1:11:24
Yeah.
1:11:25
So this kind of actually does work if you make...
1:11:27
Yeah, that does.
1:11:28
Yeah, that's what it's just saying.
1:11:29
And it's what it's saying.
1:11:30
It kind of makes sense.
1:11:31
Yeah.
1:11:32
Ooh, I don't like that.
1:11:33
Okay.
1:11:34
Well, there's an extra excerpt.
1:11:35
And I don't think we're going to like this either.
1:11:38
So.
1:11:39
Yay.
1:11:40
Don't assume.
1:11:41
I like everything.
1:11:42
Okay.
1:11:43
I'll be surprised if you like this, but I guess we'll see.
1:11:46
Hidden Alliance's work to move you into your authentic vocation as soon as you begin to
1:11:52
commit to it.
1:11:54
Okay.
1:11:57
Hidden Alliance of maybe three people who hidden gem.
1:12:02
There.
1:12:03
Decided to...
1:12:04
The leg.
1:12:05
You know, for murder.
1:12:06
And then maybe your authentic vocation is perhaps not law enforcement, but being detained
1:12:13
by people.
1:12:14
I was like, I was like jail time.
1:12:15
Yeah.
1:12:16
I just say it for a certain time.
1:12:18
Maybe it's not that, but it's...
1:12:20
That is so weird, though.
1:12:23
Like the way that that is specifically worded and the extra excerpt, it's like, it's fitting.
1:12:29
Yeah.
1:12:30
I don't like it, but it is fitting.
1:12:33
I like it.
1:12:34
I think it's...
1:12:35
No, I mean, I hate that that's the situation.
1:12:38
No, yeah.
1:12:39
Yeah.
1:12:40
All right.
1:12:41
Well, I think we should wrap it up.
1:12:43
Wrap it before you tap it.
1:12:46
Okay.
1:12:47
Well, the peanut gallery has spoken.
1:12:51
If you love listening to our episodes each week, consider becoming a Patreon to support
1:12:56
the show.
1:12:58
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1:13:00
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1:13:03
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1:13:07
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1:13:13
And we send you like a little mini tarot reading in your welcome card.
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1:13:22
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1:13:24
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1:13:28
We're nosy like that.
1:13:30
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1:13:37
I mean, you could do both though, too.
1:13:39
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1:13:41
Just say it.
1:13:43
Very on-brand.
1:13:44
Very on-brand.
1:13:45
Yeah.
1:13:46
Tell everyone and anyone you come into contact with about us or leave us a five-star review
1:13:52
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1:13:54
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1:14:00
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1:14:10
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1:14:15
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1:14:16
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1:14:17
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1:14:18
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1:14:21
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1:14:39
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1:14:40
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You can find our link tree in the description of this episode to check out all the creepy
1:14:46
fun we have to offer.
1:14:48
Or you can visit our website because I made one of those too.
1:14:52
Who do the nudes come into effect?
1:14:56
That's only fans.
1:14:57
I don't think they answer it.
1:14:58
No free feet.
1:14:59
We talked about this.
1:15:00
Have a creepy ass day.
1:15:01
See you next Tuesday.
1:15:02
I mean, probably not Andrea because she's a guest.
1:15:09
Oh, that's true.
1:15:10
You want to say that she's already used to hosting.
1:15:17
Yeah, this is already my permanent.
1:15:19
I just moved in.
1:15:20
I moved in today because I decided that she's got the collapsible cot under the desk.
1:15:24
You get it.
1:15:25
I was sleeping between you and Chris.
1:15:27
What are you talking about?
1:15:28
She's not taking my job.
1:15:29
Oh my god.
1:15:30
I didn't know you were there.
1:15:33
Girl, you get you lucky.
1:15:34
I was like, whoops.
1:15:35
I didn't know Kung Fu.
1:15:38
Okay, so have a creepy ass day.
1:15:43
See you next Tuesday.
1:15:44
Yeah.
1:15:45
Okay.
1:15:46
Okay.
1:15:47
So do we do three, two, one?
1:15:48
Yeah, we can.
1:15:49
You counted off and I'll just start when you start.
1:15:51
Pressure.
1:15:52
I don't know if I can do it.
1:15:53
No, that's fine.
1:15:54
So three, two, I did say.
1:15:56
I did say.
1:15:57
Wait, I forgot already.
1:15:58
What was to say?
1:15:59
I forgot already.
1:16:00
What was to say?