Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 206 - Is Gambling a Sin?

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Ep. 206 - Is Gambling a Sin? · The Living Waters Podcast

1:05
Oscar Navarro: In John Fram's book the Doctrine of the Christian Life.
1:08
Oscar Navarro: Surprisingly and I love John Fram he argues that gambling is often wrong, but not always.
1:14
Oscar Navarro: He says that gambling can be linked to the worship of chance.
1:18
Oscar Navarro: It can be addictive, it can involve covetousness, it can be a waste of time and money.
1:22
Oscar Navarro: It can be thought of as a substitute for useful work.
1:25
Oscar Navarro: It could fall under the control of organized crime.
1:28
Oscar Navarro: So while although Fram doesn't think of gambling as sinful in and of itself, he says that the circumstances around gambling often lead to it becoming an issue of sin.
1:39
Oscar Navarro: That's how John Fram would discuss gambling.
1:42
Oscar Navarro: That's how he frames it.
1:48
Emeal Zwayne: Welcome to the Choose One and Only One Living Waters Podcast segment, where we choose one and only one.
1:58
Emeal Zwayne: All right guys.
1:59
Emeal Zwayne: Would you rather hit your funny bone or get restless leg syndrome, or get a Charlie horse, or get a brain freeze, or get a leg cramp, or get a paper cut or have permanent helitosis?
2:15
Emeal Zwayne: I know that the last one doesn't make sense because the three of you already have it very, very, very, very, very, very, very badly.
2:21
Oscar Navarro: What was the options again, but.
2:22
Ray Comfort: I don't know, I've got them.
2:24
Emeal Zwayne: Which one?
2:25
Ray Comfort: Racial leg syndrome.
2:26
Ray Comfort: For sure Stop.
2:27
Ray Comfort: I'm going to go with that in 30 seconds.
2:30
Emeal Zwayne: Okay, they are Again.
2:31
Emeal Zwayne: Oscar, restless leg syndrome, charlie horse brain freeze, leg cramp, paper cut or permanent helitosis.
2:41
Oscar Navarro: I'm going to go with brain freeze, brain freeze.
2:45
Ray Comfort: No, seriously, you can get rid of restless legs by getting on one of those exercise bikes for one minute and just going like crazy.
2:50
Ray Comfort: I do it every night.
2:51
Ray Comfort: But, ray, you are a bore.
2:52
Emeal Zwayne: Restless leg syndrome.
2:53
Ray Comfort: Yeah, but I get rid of it really quick through my bike, which is in the bedroom.
2:57
Oscar Navarro: Is it in your hole?
2:58
Ray Comfort: No, I should crawl out of the hole.
3:00
Ray Comfort: What is?
3:00
Emeal Zwayne: it with you and Rachel and your restless leg syndrome.
3:03
Emeal Zwayne: It's one in the morning she's up doing squats.
3:05
Ray Comfort: Well, that's to do with some partogenous Einstein.
3:08
Ray Comfort: You just get them Stop.
3:10
Oscar Navarro: I get them a lot.
3:11
Oscar Navarro: So when I try to go to bed at night, I read I can't fall asleep, and then my legs start telling me they want to work out.
3:17
Ray Comfort: That's like the two things that happen back to back.
3:18
Ray Comfort: That happens to millions of people.
3:20
Ray Comfort: It's a lack of magnesium.
3:22
Oscar Navarro: Is it really?
3:22
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, okay, but here's the thing, though, so I stretch while I read.
3:26
Ray Comfort: It's called magnesium, but but restless.
3:28
Emeal Zwayne: Magaminesium, magam Magazines.
3:30
Emeal Zwayne: Okay, restless leg syndrome, though, ray.
3:33
Emeal Zwayne: The thing about it is it can last a long time.
3:35
Emeal Zwayne: If you're on a plane, that's one of the worst places.
3:38
Ray Comfort: You go to the restroom and do squats.
3:39
Ray Comfort: I used to do that in international flights.
3:42
Emeal Zwayne: It's horrible.
3:42
Emeal Zwayne: Is there enough room?
3:43
Emeal Zwayne: Oh, for you there.
3:43
Emeal Zwayne: What is for me?
3:44
Ray Comfort: I was gonna say I used to take a team in and do that.
3:49
Emeal Zwayne: That's like an auditorium for you, man.
3:51
Ray Comfort: Yes, you can just play record ball.
3:53
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, mark, what would you choose?
3:56
Mark Spence: I enjoy Charlie Horses.
3:58
Mark Spence: Maybe paper cuts on the eyeballs, something simple, I don't like Charlie Horses.
4:05
Ray Comfort: It's horrible.
4:06
Ray Comfort: You can feel them coming.
4:08
Oscar Navarro: I wake up with them in the middle of the night.
4:10
Oscar Navarro: Sometimes it's the worst.
4:11
Ray Comfort: Yeah, Seriously man who was Charlie.
4:14
Ray Comfort: I don't know what's the deal with horses.
4:16
Emeal Zwayne: But when someone gives you a Charlie Horses, you know it can hit you on the arm.
4:19
Emeal Zwayne: I've never had that.
4:21
Emeal Zwayne: What?
4:21
Emeal Zwayne: What's never happened to me?
4:22
Ray Comfort: Just happens.
4:22
Ray Comfort: Naturally, mark, go to Charlie.
4:24
Emeal Zwayne: Horses.
4:24
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, Charlie Horses.
4:25
Emeal Zwayne: It's like intentional Charlie.
4:26
Oscar Navarro: Horses?
4:27
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, normally their arm just breaks.
4:28
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, oscar, what about you?
4:30
Oscar Navarro: I'm going with a frozen head syndrome.
4:35
Emeal Zwayne: Brain freeze.
4:35
Emeal Zwayne: Brain freeze.
4:36
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I mean seriously, aren't all these things annoying?
4:38
Emeal Zwayne: For me, one of the most miserable things, and I can't explain it.
4:42
Emeal Zwayne: It's just this disgusting feeling when I hit my funny bone.
4:46
Emeal Zwayne: Oh really.
4:47
Emeal Zwayne: But it's happened to you where it's been really hard and like you feel electricity, like right Go through your whole brain Crazy horse would call it a funny bone.
4:54
Ray Comfort: Anywhere it's not funny.
4:55
Ray Comfort: Oh, I hit my funny bone.
4:57
Oscar Navarro: What is that bone?
4:58
Oscar Navarro: I hit my funny bone so hard in a basketball game one time I shot the ball and then, like, as I was coming down, the guy ducked under me and my elbow hit his head and it to this day.
5:08
Oscar Navarro: If I like, put my elbow down the wrong way, it feels like I'm putting it down on razor blades.
5:13
Oscar Navarro: I broke something in there.
5:15
Emeal Zwayne: Oh seriously, though, there's something about that feeling.
5:18
Ray Comfort: Oh, you do empathize, Oscar.
5:19
Ray Comfort: Thank you.
5:20
Emeal Zwayne: Oh, that's nice, that's nice Oscar, but yeah, but what is?
5:27
Emeal Zwayne: That I wanted to know, why, is it that bone on the elbow?
5:30
Emeal Zwayne: It doesn't happen with my knee.
5:31
Emeal Zwayne: There's no like wait seriously, you've had a funny bone knee hit.
5:36
Mark Spence: Yeah, well, I mean, it's the same concept.
5:38
Mark Spence: You know, when the doctor comes up and hits you underneath your knee, cap or batilla, the knee goes in.
5:43
Mark Spence: So the idea and the concept is exactly the same Wait do they do that with your elbow for reflex.
5:48
Emeal Zwayne: Do they hit your elbow bone for reflex?
5:49
Ray Comfort: Nope, no, we're just making it up.
5:51
Ray Comfort: He wants to be a doctor?
5:53
Mark Spence: No, but that no idea what I'm saying.
5:56
Emeal Zwayne: Mark, I've had those moments where they do the well, you know, when they do their knee but, I want to control it where they hit your knee and your leg moves.
6:04
Emeal Zwayne: What?
6:04
Emeal Zwayne: What do you mean?
6:05
Emeal Zwayne: Have they checked your forehead yet?
6:06
Emeal Zwayne: Stop it, Mark.
6:07
Emeal Zwayne: Have them my forehead.
6:08
Emeal Zwayne: They start over the age of 40, they start knocking you on your forehead, my whole body moves over the age of 40.
6:13
Emeal Zwayne: No, but that is one of the weirdest things hitting that your knee, and no matter what you say, it's going to move.
6:20
Emeal Zwayne: You can't stop it.
6:21
Ray Comfort: Well, it's good though she's got good reflexes, but is that a reflex?
6:24
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, why is that a reflex?
6:26
Mark Spence: Well, I saw Mr Bean.
6:27
Mark Spence: He was hit underneath his right knee and his left knee went up.
6:30
Mark Spence: That's so funny.
6:31
Emeal Zwayne: I missed that a bean and missed that a bean Ray, remember when you were missing him for Mr Bean.
6:35
Ray Comfort: No, why do I get dragged through the mud?
6:38
Ray Comfort: I think she was referring to you.
6:39
Ray Comfort: You're the one with a bean face.
6:41
Ray Comfort: Excuse me, you're the one with a bean fringe.
6:43
Emeal Zwayne: Oh yeah, we talked about your mustache being shaved in one of the episodes.
6:45
Emeal Zwayne: That was the byproduct.
6:47
Emeal Zwayne: You didn't have your mustache, you looked like Mr Bean.
6:49
Emeal Zwayne: I did with that mustache.
6:50
Emeal Zwayne: I mean Israel, in that hotel, in that place where we ate.
6:54
Oscar Navarro: Isn't he like six feet tall, though?
6:55
Oscar Navarro: No, what if this whole time you were actually tall, but your mustache made you look sharp Weezy?
7:03
Mark Spence: That's a little relative.
7:04
Mark Spence: How many Mr Bean seasons were there Any ideas?
7:07
Emeal Zwayne: Three no, I was scared of that one.
7:09
Emeal Zwayne: That was really funny no.
7:11
Mark Spence: There was only one.
7:12
Mark Spence: No stop Only one Mr Bean series.
7:14
Mark Spence: Yeah, 15 episodes.
7:16
Emeal Zwayne: Okay, I have a question for you guys on this point Eleven Would you back in the day before you knew the Lord and you cared about fame and fortune?
7:25
Emeal Zwayne: Would you be a character that will stick with you for life, like a Stephen Irkel or like a Mr Bean?
7:32
Emeal Zwayne: Because I don't think Mr Bean likes that character.
7:34
Emeal Zwayne: I think he despises.
7:36
Oscar Navarro: Or like what's that chef guy with the bright hair and the flaming t-shirts Guy, he's a guy.
7:41
Mark Spence: Guy oh.
7:43
Oscar Navarro: Guy.
7:43
Ray Comfort: Richie.
7:43
Oscar Navarro: No, guy Fury, yeah, do you think Guy Fury wakes up as Guy Fury?
7:50
Emeal Zwayne: No, I saw that guy in a cafeteria at a hospital once.
7:52
Emeal Zwayne: Guy, I didn't know who he was.
7:53
Emeal Zwayne: I didn't know who he was yet and he was talking about money and all this stuff.
7:57
Emeal Zwayne: And then it turns out it was him.
7:58
Ray Comfort: Jester Aboudine had that problem.
7:59
Ray Comfort: Who, come on?
8:01
Ray Comfort: You know, jester Aboudine?
8:02
Ray Comfort: I have no idea, ray, yeah, bidley Hilberleys, jester.
8:04
Emeal Zwayne: O, oh, yeah, right, that's what I'm talking about.
8:07
Emeal Zwayne: Like you know, when you're a dits and a sitcom.
8:09
Emeal Zwayne: Because I think like, I think the Irkel guy, I think he.
8:13
Emeal Zwayne: That was probably because you get typecasts too, Typecasts.
8:18
Mark Spence: Yeah, and then you take it.
8:19
Emeal Zwayne: Some people break out of it.
8:20
Mark Spence: Mr T.
8:20
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, well, you know, jim Carrey surprisingly Broke out of it.
8:25
Emeal Zwayne: He did, he did some dramas, and he was actually a good actor in that realm too.
8:30
Emeal Zwayne: Anyway, I would paper cuts oh, they're nasty, so wait, which one would you choose then?
8:37
Emeal Zwayne: That's what I'm trying to figure out.
8:37
Emeal Zwayne: I don't even know.
8:38
Ray Comfort: I feel like the brain freeze is the worst I probably go for.
8:40
Ray Comfort: I guess this paper cup syndrome is terrible.
8:43
Oscar Navarro: Here's the reason why I choose brain freeze Because that means I'm eating ice cream, that's true.
8:47
Oscar Navarro: So there's a wind there.
8:48
Emeal Zwayne: I probably go for brain freeze, although that is pretty miserable.
8:51
Ray Comfort: What's a brain?
8:52
Ray Comfort: Freeze when you drink something really cold, you would need a brain tender set.
8:54
Ray Comfort: Oh, I thought, when you just can't think straight.
8:56
Emeal Zwayne: No, but you've had that right.
8:57
Emeal Zwayne: When you drink something real cold.
8:58
Ray Comfort: You just think how dumb I am to eat that it was really cold, but what is that?
9:01
Ray Comfort: What is happening?
9:02
Ray Comfort: I?
9:02
Emeal Zwayne: want to know.
9:03
Ray Comfort: Just having something too cold.
9:04
Ray Comfort: Your body's saying don't do this Physiologically your brain.
9:07
Emeal Zwayne: Why is your brain Feeling like it's gonna?
9:11
Oscar Navarro: I'm sure mark can make something up.
9:12
Oscar Navarro: Mark, mark make something up, is it?
9:14
Ray Comfort: a headache.
9:14
Ray Comfort: That's what's happening.
9:15
Ray Comfort: An instant headache, I guess yeah yeah, there's.
9:19
Emeal Zwayne: There's something where Doctor come.
9:20
Emeal Zwayne: Isn't there a game where you, you, you'd like tell Something that's not true, with like three things?
9:26
Oscar Navarro: but one of two truths in a lie.
9:28
Emeal Zwayne: Oh yeah, that's pretty cool.
9:29
Emeal Zwayne: No, it's also known as you hit it here, the wet mark.
9:33
Mark Spence: It's also known as ice cream headache.
9:34
Mark Spence: It's a sudden sharp pain in the forehead or temple area that occurs after consuming something like ice cream.
9:40
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, sometimes it's really bad, really bad Only if you're all right.
9:44
Ray Comfort: France.
9:45
Emeal Zwayne: All right, oscar you're becoming quite the easy impersonator there.
9:53
Emeal Zwayne: Well, thank you so much.
9:54
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we have a comment from Castile 1993 loving the podcast so much.
10:01
Emeal Zwayne: My name is Zachary and I'm 29 years old, married and have one son.
10:05
Emeal Zwayne: Y'all encouraged me to be a godly man to my wife and son, though I've always strived to be that to my family.
10:12
Emeal Zwayne: I can't remember how I found this podcast, but I have been watching Ray for a long time.
10:16
Emeal Zwayne: I love how he keeps the gospel simple, doesn't put fancy words in it.
10:20
Emeal Zwayne: I'm a simple guy needing things.
10:22
Emeal Zwayne: Said simply, I've been a Christian for about 12 to 13 years and love this podcast so much.
10:27
Emeal Zwayne: It's encouraging and convicting.
10:28
Emeal Zwayne: It's really put pep in my step for the kingdom of God and to share the gospel.
10:32
Emeal Zwayne: I've shared this podcast with a few people I work with.
10:35
Emeal Zwayne: I love how y'all talk about the simple things of God but get so deep in it.
10:39
Emeal Zwayne: I'm part of a discipleship group and I lead a life group, so it's very encouraging for me to listen because I can always share, and I find myself sharing a lot of what I hear on the podcast with my D group.
10:49
Emeal Zwayne: Keep on keeping on, mark.
10:52
Emeal Zwayne: What in the universe are you?
10:54
Mark Spence: I'm actually sending this to one of your real job?
10:57
Emeal Zwayne: It's not.
10:59
Mark Spence: Shame we, so we call them the other Jeremy, our friend.
11:01
Mark Spence: He just sent me a text saying that he's listening to the podcast right now, so I'm gonna send a quick little video of us, okay.
11:06
Emeal Zwayne: Hey, by the way, shout out to Jeremy.
11:08
Emeal Zwayne: Hmm, we called him.
11:10
Emeal Zwayne: It was his birthday recently, his 16th birthday.
11:12
Emeal Zwayne: He's part of a military family and he loves a podcast, loves the Lord and and loves giving out gospel tracks.
11:20
Emeal Zwayne: So, jeremy, shout out.
11:21
Emeal Zwayne: Thanks for listening to me, your favorite podcaster.
11:25
Oscar Navarro: That's not what he told me.
11:27
Emeal Zwayne: All right, this podcast is brought to you.
11:30
Emeal Zwayne: I'm so I I never, I never cease to amaze myself by how I am use myself.
11:37
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11:39
Emeal Zwayne: I'm gonna be like that what's?
11:44
Emeal Zwayne: gonna go it's getting worse.
11:45
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11:47
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11:51
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11:53
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12:15
Ray Comfort: What's that?
12:15
Oscar Navarro: master or polymer power To the fourth power.
12:19
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12:23
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12:25
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12:28
Ray Comfort: I believe in the second one, we were gonna do in advance and I don't think we ever did multi-purpose format.
12:33
Ray Comfort: Did we do?
12:33
Oscar Navarro: no dance?
12:34
Ray Comfort: No, we never did?
12:35
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12:35
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12:41
Emeal Zwayne: All right, here we go.
12:44
Ray Comfort: Today we're talking about oh yeah, I like this.
12:46
Ray Comfort: I'm excited about this one.
12:50
Emeal Zwayne: Is gambling a sin.
12:54
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, guys, boy, you know, yeah, guys, boy you know guys boy, you know um that, make a cool rap song.
13:06
Ray Comfort: Yeah.
13:06
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, guys, boy, you know um how much you want to bet.
13:11
Mark Spence: Easy is going to Talk about gambling on this podcast.
13:16
Ray Comfort: Yeah, I bet ten bucks.
13:17
Emeal Zwayne: Whoa better's, better's.
13:19
Emeal Zwayne: We do.
13:19
Emeal Zwayne: We say that a lot, don't wait, I bet, I bet, I bet, you know.
13:23
Oscar Navarro: I'm gonna parlay that bet.
13:24
Oscar Navarro: Why don't we say I, what's the other?
13:26
Mark Spence: under that easy on the next podcast, will read a comment about himself.
13:33
Mark Spence: What is it?
13:37
Mark Spence: It's like that llama inside that cartoon.
13:39
Mark Spence: What is it?
13:40
Mark Spence: Emperor's new groove?
13:41
Emeal Zwayne: Seriously, you guys have to admit that's a pretty cool noise.
13:44
Emeal Zwayne: No, it's when someone says something stupid.
13:50
Ray Comfort: I really don't think God created humanity to do things like that.
13:54
Oscar Navarro: I'm pretty sure Rachel would not have said yes.
13:56
Oscar Navarro: Why did we give him a microphone?
13:58
Ray Comfort: I don't know who gave you to him.
13:59
Ray Comfort: Oh, I love this microphone.
14:02
Emeal Zwayne: So, guys gambling as I was going to say, look at the tangent you guys took us on for like two minutes over on my guys' well.
14:10
Ray Comfort: No, Mark brought up a good point.
14:11
Ray Comfort: Who's betting?
14:12
Ray Comfort: Should we bet as Christians?
14:14
Ray Comfort: I mean, would you play poker for just the beings?
14:19
Mark Spence: Yeah, so we have to define gambling here.
14:20
Mark Spence: Yeah.
14:21
Ray Comfort: Would you play poker with pennies or matchsticks or would you go to bingo?
14:24
Ray Comfort: Would you play roulette wheel?
14:26
Ray Comfort: Do you do raffles?
14:28
Emeal Zwayne: Right, those are all good questions, I think.
14:31
Emeal Zwayne: Well, my intention in talking about gambling and those all apply is that, yeah, when you're putting money up, you're going to places where people are gambling casinos, or you may even be gathering with friends, but like you're talking about, like you're putting up money, you know but I do think it's also a good question Like are there gateway?
14:55
Emeal Zwayne: You know gambling games or formats, even if they're maybe lesser, are they wise, are they not?
15:02
Emeal Zwayne: This has become more and more, I think, relevant to talk about because it's grown more and more Sports betting, especially Right.
15:10
Emeal Zwayne: I mean, it's become huge yeah.
15:12
Oscar Navarro: Now I hear people talk about $4.3 billion industry.
15:14
Oscar Navarro: A what $4.3 billion industry?
15:16
Oscar Navarro: Wow, Just online sports betting.
15:18
Oscar Navarro: That doesn't include gambling.
15:20
Emeal Zwayne: We're not talking about vagus, I'm sure with that no only online app.
15:23
Oscar Navarro: Sports betting is a $4.3 billion business.
15:26
Oscar Navarro: Okay.
15:27
Emeal Zwayne: Does that include fantasy football and all that?
15:30
Emeal Zwayne: Yes, I have zero idea about that stuff Like what's that about Justice will?
15:34
Emeal Zwayne: Do you know it, ray?
15:36
Oscar Navarro: No Fantasy football Are you really You've never played fantasy football before.
15:40
Emeal Zwayne: I mean, I hear people like you is it you predict no, I've never played it, but you predict certain teams are going to win and you predict their story.
15:46
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
15:47
Oscar Navarro: No.
15:47
Oscar Navarro: So you I mean it's kind of how do you explain fantasy football?
15:51
Oscar Navarro: So you have a draft and everyone drafts players onto their team and, depending on how that player does that week, he scores you certain points and then your team of players go up against another person's team of players and whoever wins wins the game that week.
16:09
Oscar Navarro: But fantasy football doesn't have to be gambling Like.
16:12
Oscar Navarro: My wife is the commissioner of our church fantasy football league but they don't put up any money.
16:18
Oscar Navarro: It's just like everyone comes over to our house and they we draft together and you know we could have fun together throughout the football season.
16:25
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and let me say as well, friends, I'm sure you guys know us by now enough to know that there are times we'll discuss topics that we haven't really hashed out between ourselves, and we're going to have different views and perspectives, and I think that's healthy.
16:38
Ray Comfort: I don't agree with that.
16:41
Emeal Zwayne: That's horrible, that's great.
16:42
Emeal Zwayne: So I don't know where I mean, I'm pretty sure I know where Mark stands.
16:47
Emeal Zwayne: I mean Ray stands.
16:48
Emeal Zwayne: I don't know where Mark I can tell you, ray stands Right there.
16:50
Ray Comfort: Over here I'm going to ask.
16:52
Ray Comfort: 20 years old, a friend of my uncle took me to a casino with Sue and we are just newly married and I felt the power of that one arm bandit.
17:01
Emeal Zwayne: He just gave me some coins to put in how much sheep did you lose?
17:04
Ray Comfort: Yeah, I wasn't gambling sheep, but I felt the power of I just I was addicted instantly.
17:09
Ray Comfort: I absolutely loved it.
17:10
Ray Comfort: I thought this is scary.
17:12
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, well, you know, there are people.
17:14
Ray Comfort: and the reason again why I said it's so prevalent I wasn't a Christian at the time.
17:17
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you mentioned Oscar.
17:18
Emeal Zwayne: You know fantasy football or online, what do you call it?
17:21
Emeal Zwayne: What's?
17:21
Emeal Zwayne: It called Sports betting, sports betting, but that's just one aspect, right.
17:26
Emeal Zwayne: I mean you have now like and this is I mean it's probably been 20 years and however but this whole thing of like professional gamblers, where now you have it's televised and it's like a sport.
17:40
Ray Comfort: Like poker, poker faces, yeah, yeah.
17:42
Oscar Navarro: Is that what you're referring to, like Texas Holden poker, whatever?
17:44
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and that you've got people that are going to casinos that are radically addicted.
17:52
Emeal Zwayne: I mean, to me one of the saddest sites is to see these people sitting there like for hours, and the airports too.
17:58
Ray Comfort: You get to see the driver.
18:00
Oscar Navarro: They look so unhappy.
18:01
Emeal Zwayne: Seriously, as I say it, I get the same feeling I get when I go to a baseball game.
18:05
Emeal Zwayne: I want to die.
18:05
Emeal Zwayne: I'm just sitting there pulling pulling I mean it seriously just like in a trance, in a smoke filled, disgusting stinky casino, like that's bondage man.
18:18
Oscar Navarro: So let's take a step back, that you think you're right, and let's let's answer the question is gambling a sin?
18:26
Oscar Navarro: I think, even if we might come to different perspectives and I don't know, we actually might all come to the same perspective.
18:31
Oscar Navarro: The one thing I think we need to recognize is that the scriptures don't give us a direct answer to the question is gambling a sin, Though it in you can, you can conclude, you can come to a conclusion through scriptures on how to how to go about this situation.
18:48
Oscar Navarro: It doesn't come to a direct one, and that's important because this falls well one.
18:53
Oscar Navarro: Like Ryan Kelly says, sin is that which violates God's biblical commandments, not the conditions and inventions we make as soul scripture.
19:02
Oscar Navarro: Christians are minds, wills and hearts are directed by God's revealed will in the scripture alone.
19:08
Oscar Navarro: And then RC Sproul goes on to say that the problem is we.
19:13
Oscar Navarro: He says we must be careful not to make that subtle move from a passionate concern towards a godly morality which includes legalism.
19:23
Oscar Navarro: And so we do have to be careful here.
19:25
Oscar Navarro: There are different people who have different views, and John frames book the doctrine of the Christian life.
19:31
Oscar Navarro: Surprisingly, I love John Fram he argues that gambling is often wrong, but not always.
19:37
Oscar Navarro: He says that gambling can be linked to the worship of chance.
19:41
Oscar Navarro: It can be addictive.
19:42
Oscar Navarro: It can involve covetousness, it can be a waste of time and money.
19:46
Oscar Navarro: It can be thought of as a substitute for useful work.
19:48
Oscar Navarro: It could fall under the control of organized crime.
19:51
Oscar Navarro: So, while although Fram doesn't think of gambling as sinful in and of itself, he says that the circumstances around gambling often lead to it becoming an issue of sin.
20:03
Oscar Navarro: That's how John Fram would discuss gambling.
20:05
Oscar Navarro: That's how he frames it.
20:07
Oscar Navarro: That's how John Fram frames it.
20:08
Emeal Zwayne: Oh yeah, and I'm so glad you said that, oscar.
20:12
Emeal Zwayne: Look, I tend in my personality toward being very stringent with things.
20:19
Emeal Zwayne: That's how I am with myself.
20:20
Emeal Zwayne: I'm a pretty black and white kind of guy.
20:22
Emeal Zwayne: I've grown over the years.
20:24
Emeal Zwayne: I've loosened up a little bit in certain areas.
20:27
Emeal Zwayne: You're more pale now.
20:28
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I know I can definitely tend toward legalism if I'm not careful, and years ago I taught a message on integrity and I talked about integrity of conscience, of conduct and of convictions.
20:40
Emeal Zwayne: And it's so important because, even in a way where we may be leaning toward something that may fall in line with what's more conservative, we can lack integrity because we're only not doing it, because we're worried about what people within our circle will say If we do it, because they don't do it or because that's a conclusion they arrived on on issues of conviction, you know.
21:05
Emeal Zwayne: So we really do need to be careful.
21:07
Emeal Zwayne: It is easy to paint with a broad brush.
21:09
Emeal Zwayne: Everything within me wants to say gambling is a sin.
21:12
Emeal Zwayne: That's where I would want to lean and say it is a sin, absolutely have nothing to do with it.
21:17
Mark Spence: Why would somebody say that, like, why would you say that?
21:20
Emeal Zwayne: Well, I play devil's advocate.
21:21
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, absolutely.
21:22
Emeal Zwayne: The reason why I'm prone to want to say that is because of the associations that are connected to it Good, and because of the destruction it has done in the lives of so many that are associated with it.
21:36
Emeal Zwayne: I lean the same way with drinking.
21:38
Emeal Zwayne: I want to just say Christians should not drink.
21:40
Emeal Zwayne: Now, I say that with full knowledge that scripture obviously there's alcohol in scripture and you know, there's no question.
21:47
Emeal Zwayne: Again, there's some we've talked about it before lightly on the podcast where there's some that will say, no, I mean MacArthur would hold the view that no, that the fermentation was not what it is today.
21:56
Emeal Zwayne: You had to drink gallons in order to get drunk or buzzed.
22:00
Emeal Zwayne: Others have different perspectives on that, but whatever, I want to lean that way because I look at the associations and I say, guys, we live in a world that is alcoholism is destroying people.
22:10
Emeal Zwayne: It's so associated with how people destroy their lives.
22:14
Emeal Zwayne: So I just want to say no.
22:16
Mark Spence: And then there's wisdom attached to everything that you just said Absolutely, absolutely.
22:20
Emeal Zwayne: But that's where I want to be careful, though, because I can veer off into an area where I ought not to which now becomes legalistic when you're telling other people that they can't do it.
22:29
Oscar Navarro: Exactly.
22:30
Oscar Navarro: I love your self-awareness in that, because there are so many people that are not self-aware.
22:34
Oscar Navarro: Like to create standards and disciplines for your own self is one thing, and I see how your disciplines like you're one of the most disciplined people I've ever met in my life and I can see how it has done well for your spiritual vitality, your walk with the Lord but it's so valuable.
22:53
Oscar Navarro: I love the way you're able to stop short of implying that as a demand or a standard on other people.
23:00
Oscar Navarro: I think I struggle with that often and I fail.
23:04
Emeal Zwayne: And I have to work at that, because I think part of it is my flesh too.
23:08
Emeal Zwayne: There are so many elements that can be disguised as pure righteousness, but they're not, and I do tremble at the thought of trampling in other brothers' liberties.
23:21
Emeal Zwayne: There's a sin, there's a serious sin associated with that, and so there's times where I've had to repent, even in my conversations, of just saying how could they do that?
23:30
Emeal Zwayne: And it's like I have to stop.
23:32
Emeal Zwayne: Paul gets into that, and it was over very serious stuff.
23:36
Emeal Zwayne: You're talking about things sacrificed to idols.
23:39
Emeal Zwayne: You're talking about dietary issues, which back then were massive things.
23:44
Emeal Zwayne: So you're talking Romans 14.
23:46
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so I think it is important to be careful.
23:51
Ray Comfort: I think one of the most freeing scriptures is Romans 14, 21, 22.
23:53
Ray Comfort: Happiest here that condemns not himself and that thing which he allows, and he's the ISO identifier with you.
23:59
Ray Comfort: You've got to pull the reins in when it comes to your standards and other people's standards.
24:02
Ray Comfort: They may have the liberty to sit at a gambling casino and have a glass of whiskey and appraise the Lord's t-shirt on.
24:11
Oscar Navarro: I certainly wouldn't do that, so I was listening to the podcast.
24:13
Oscar Navarro: Right now he's talking about me.
24:16
Mark Spence: Yeah, we have to be careful of those appearances of evil there's no doubt about that, especially with people in different positions of leadership.
24:24
Mark Spence: I personally do not drink alcohol.
24:27
Mark Spence: I don't drink alcohol for many different reasons, but one of those top reasons that I don't drink alcohol is because there are weaker people.
24:35
Mark Spence: There are people that can look into my life and go well, if Mark can drink well, then I can drink, and I have no idea what they're going through.
24:41
Mark Spence: And I don't need alcohol.
24:43
Mark Spence: First of all, I don't need to relax, I don't need to slow down to that capacity.
24:47
Mark Spence: I typed into a chat.
24:49
Mark Spence: Gpt Define Gambling for Me and it said gambling is when you bet money on something uncertain, like a game or a race, with a chance of winning more and more, but you might also lose the money that you bet.
25:02
Mark Spence: It can become a problem for some people If you lose.
25:06
Mark Spence: If we talk about gambling right, a problem with gambling, compulsive gambling let's put it in a proper perspective that there is a overwhelming urge to keep gambling, despite the toll that it can take on someone's life, either financially or with your family.
25:27
Mark Spence: You know, if you find yourself wanting to go over to your friend's house to play a game of poker as opposed to coming home and discipling your kids, you may have a problem.
25:36
Mark Spence: If you find your place of release needing to be well, I need to have poker night with the guys more than my child needs to be picked up from soccer practice, you may have a problem.
25:48
Mark Spence: But we do take risks all the time, right?
25:52
Mark Spence: I mean, if we drive the LA freeways, we are gambling that we're going to get to the other side.
25:57
Mark Spence: But we just need to put them things into their proper perspective because you grab ahold of somebody like Phil Ivy.
26:02
Mark Spence: He's a world-renowned poker player, right?
26:04
Mark Spence: I looked him up and it says that, as of 2023, he has earned $38.3 million playing poker.
26:13
Mark Spence: His net worth now, because of endorsements, is $125 million.
26:18
Mark Spence: When he enters into a poker contest or a championship and gets into that place, it's been said that he can win a tournament without ever once looking at his cards, because he's reading the people, he's seen how other people are responding and reacting, he can say well, wait a minute, you're gambling millions of dollars.
26:38
Mark Spence: Yeah, I've become an artist in the way I've read people, something that you and I don't do because we're not in that position.
26:47
Mark Spence: But how would we possibly and I don't know the guy, obviously, I never met him- you may be able to look him up on YouTube to see what he does.
26:55
Mark Spence: Yeah, but it's like how can we blankly say you cannot do that thing?
27:00
Mark Spence: When you play the stock market, you're gambling with money.
27:03
Mark Spence: Stock market is very different than gambling, though, but you're using money, hoping in what way?
27:12
Oscar Navarro: Well, one, stock market is not a zero-sum game.
27:14
Oscar Navarro: In other words, a zero-sum game, there's a winner and there's a loser, and in gambling there's a winner and there's a loser.
27:19
Oscar Navarro: The stock market is an investment.
27:21
Oscar Navarro: It's not a zero-sum game.
27:23
Oscar Navarro: You're investing in assets that are real and tangible and that grow over time, and the 20-year average growth rate of the stock market is somewhere between 7% and 8%.
27:31
Mark Spence: But it depends on the stock.
27:33
Oscar Navarro: No, no, no, I'm saying the stock market, I didn't say the stock, I said the stock market, so the S&P 500, over a 20-year average is between 7% and 8%, depending on what 20 years you look at.
27:41
Oscar Navarro: In other words, if you invest your money in the S&P 500, you're going to make money over the course of 20 years.
27:49
Mark Spence: What about stocks in?
27:50
Oscar Navarro: general.
27:50
Oscar Navarro: I mean, I'm generalizing stocks for that purpose, but let me shift it a little bit.
27:54
Oscar Navarro: So I do think it's really important.
27:56
Oscar Navarro: Because I used to be in finance, I know that there is a difference Zero-sum gaming is the primary difference between investing in the stock market and businesses versus gambling with poker chips.
28:09
Oscar Navarro: But I would say this to go back to the idea of gambling I think that we have to recognize five different things that I wrote down here.
28:17
Oscar Navarro: First off and this kind of gets into stock market versus gambling First off, we have to understand what God means and intends for us on a mission of work.
28:27
Oscar Navarro: So work is given to us by God and he has given it to us to to order or to reorder his creation.
28:37
Oscar Navarro: This is what Adam was supposed to do in the garden.
28:40
Oscar Navarro: He's intended to till the garden, to reorder it, to plant, to create beautiful things that nourish and that do good for both ourselves and the people around us.
28:51
Oscar Navarro: The city right Like we are supposed to reorder.
28:55
Oscar Navarro: There's a difference between a reordering, which is God's intent for work, and using chance, as John Fram said, using chance to make money.
29:04
Oscar Navarro: I also think that the other thing that we need to take into consideration is the difference between stewardship and ownership.
29:10
Oscar Navarro: As a Christian goes and he sets down money to bet, he needs to recognize that he does not own the money he's betting.
29:17
Oscar Navarro: He's a steward of the funds that God has given him.
29:20
Oscar Navarro: So are you gambling with God's money?
29:23
Oscar Navarro: That's an important question that you have to ask yourself.
29:26
Oscar Navarro: The second thing is is the difference between a get rich quick scheme which the scriptures tells us clearly how it feels about that versus long obedience, the discipline of hard work and saving money?
29:37
Oscar Navarro: I also think we have to recognize that gambling is a sickness on our culture.
29:42
Oscar Navarro: So when we lift up and praise guys that make $120 million not saying that you're doing that in any way, shape or form, mark, but those guys go beyond just making the money that they make.
29:51
Oscar Navarro: What they do is they set a precedence.
29:53
Oscar Navarro: And gambling is a sickness man.
29:55
Oscar Navarro: It's created massive poverty.
29:57
Oscar Navarro: A significant amount of sex trafficking is linked to the gambling industry.
30:02
Oscar Navarro: There's alcohol addiction.
30:04
Oscar Navarro: The gambling industry is a plague on American society.
30:09
Oscar Navarro: Is the mafia involved in that?
30:10
Oscar Navarro: The mafia has absolutely been involved in the past, and so there's that as well.
30:14
Oscar Navarro: We have to consider the plague that gambling has in our society, and then the last thing is the money that you spend.
30:20
Oscar Navarro: When could you use it to be more generous?
30:23
Oscar Navarro: We have an issue of generosity in the world.
30:25
Oscar Navarro: We have an issue of poverty in the world, so could we be using that money for the glory of God in our generosity?
30:32
Oscar Navarro: Let me just say two real quick things.
30:34
Oscar Navarro: The first thing is when I was in the investment industry, gambling was a major issue for guys that I worked with, guys dropping thousands of dollars a week on sports betting, on parlaying, going to Vegas.
30:47
Oscar Navarro: I remember a guy coming back and we're like man, I just lost a Honda Civic this weekend.
30:50
Ray Comfort: So that's because they were making it, didn't know what to do with it.
30:53
Oscar Navarro: They were making and losing it right.
30:54
Oscar Navarro: What does parlay?
30:55
Oscar Navarro: What does that mean?
30:56
Oscar Navarro: I don't want to get into the details.
30:58
Oscar Navarro: I mean it's basically two different bets that work, that have to work in tangent with each other.
31:02
Oscar Navarro: With all that said, I'm going to have, I'm going to.
31:06
Oscar Navarro: This isn't so much of a confession but, like you might think, oh well, oscar clearly thinks gambling is wrong here.
31:11
Oscar Navarro: I think that we have to be really, really, really careful and we need to consider these five things.
31:17
Oscar Navarro: With that said, let me also be really transparent with you.
31:20
Oscar Navarro: Just last week and I feel like I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't say this, just last week a neighbor inviting me over to a poker game at his house.
31:27
Oscar Navarro: It was a $10 buy-in and I went, and I went because I, in my mind, I'm going and I'm spending $10 to hang out and be a witness to these guys, the relationships that I can build with them, the potential to share the gospel with them, which I got to do with one of the guys Clean the mail.
31:43
Oscar Navarro: And I walked away with all their money.
31:46
Oscar Navarro: I actually did win, but the point is I didn't go like man.
31:51
Oscar Navarro: I really hope I come home with this or I'm going to go with 10 and I'm going to be spending 100.
31:55
Oscar Navarro: I looked at that as the cost to enjoy my time and fellowship and be a witness to these people.
32:02
Oscar Navarro: So to me it wasn't a bet, it wasn't a gamble.
32:05
Oscar Navarro: It was money I was spending.
32:07
Oscar Navarro: I just happened to get some of it back.
32:09
Mark Spence: Listen.
32:09
Mark Spence: And what is the difference between somebody who says I want to spend $10, raise it to $20, to go to a poker game with my buds, as opposed to somebody else saying you know, I don't want to do that, I want to go to the movies and I want to go to Chipotle or whatever and spend my money that way, and both people at the end of the night are saying I had a good time yeah.
32:32
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and some can say and when you go, if you're limiting yourself to $20, you may even walk away with more than that.
32:40
Emeal Zwayne: That could be an investment.
32:42
Emeal Zwayne: Whereas if you go to the movie, it's gone right.
32:44
Emeal Zwayne: But you know, whatever you may be getting other benefits if it's a redemptive movie with a good redemptive theme or whatever.
32:50
Emeal Zwayne: But I think others on the flip side would say well, the difference is there's an addictive element to gambling and it can be.
32:58
Emeal Zwayne: It can be something that hooks you into things totally go deeper.
33:01
Emeal Zwayne: But I think, greg, I want to ask you this Don't you think that the right thing to say is gambling and other things like gambling, maybe drinking, whatever can be sin?
33:12
Emeal Zwayne: Not necessarily, but it's not a question are they sin or not?
33:15
Emeal Zwayne: But they can be if certain elements are attached to them.
33:18
Ray Comfort: Yeah, certain elements like, generally speaking, greed is the disease and gambling's the symptoms.
33:23
Ray Comfort: There's greed behind it.
33:24
Ray Comfort: I want to make more money, but it is a matter of conscience.
33:27
Ray Comfort: You're right, and that's all I've got to say.
33:29
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and I think caution right, because and I'm going to read some stuff from people that we respect that would beg to differ.
33:37
Emeal Zwayne: They think it is something that could be more explicitly sinful.
33:41
Emeal Zwayne: But I think we need to think through passages like First Timothy, 6, 6 through 12, where we're told and we read this on a recent podcast about contentment, right, we brought nothing into the world, it's for certain.
33:54
Emeal Zwayne: We can carry nothing out.
33:55
Emeal Zwayne: Having food and clothing with these shall be content, but those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men into destruction and perdition.
34:05
Emeal Zwayne: For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
34:07
Emeal Zwayne: So the first thing you ask yourself, I think, in that realm, is this a form of me loving money?
34:13
Emeal Zwayne: Is this a form of me seeking to get rich?
34:16
Emeal Zwayne: Like you gave a good example, oscar, I'm putting in a $10 thing and this is what I'm doing with my friends.
34:20
Emeal Zwayne: Again, that's why it's important for us to say, okay, you know your circumstances, you know yourself, you know you don't have a problem with it, like if you were a guy who said to me hey, I'm going to go do this with my friends and my neighbor that just asked me over and you were, before you came to Christ, a chronic gambler with a serious problem.
34:38
Emeal Zwayne: I'd say, brother, I don't recommend that, because I think the problem oftentimes within Christianity is we don't infuse the element of wisdom in the things.
34:48
Emeal Zwayne: It's always.
34:49
Emeal Zwayne: Is it right, is it wrong?
34:50
Emeal Zwayne: I mean, someone seriously can give the example of hey, where does it say in the Bible that you can't live with your girlfriend and sleep in separate rooms?
35:00
Emeal Zwayne: Where does it say that?
35:01
Emeal Zwayne: Right, I mean it doesn't.
35:03
Emeal Zwayne: We really cannot find any place to say now, well, we'll recite a form, every, avoid, every form of Appearance of evil, right, okay, but well, you could apply that to anything or whatever but use discernment.
35:14
Emeal Zwayne: But there is wisdom.
35:15
Emeal Zwayne: And now we look at that we say no, no, that's a danger.
35:17
Emeal Zwayne: You know you need to, and so we can apply that to situations like the one I just gave.
35:21
Emeal Zwayne: You know you have to ask yourself.
35:24
Mark Spence: Can you do it in faith, right?
35:25
Mark Spence: Yes, whatever's not in faith is Sin.
35:28
Mark Spence: Scripture makes that very, very clear.
35:29
Mark Spence: So the question real, simply answered Is gambling a sin?
35:33
Mark Spence: It may or it may not be.
35:35
Mark Spence: It depends on the scenario in the situation.
35:37
Mark Spence: Yeah, that's good mark, right?
35:39
Ray Comfort: 22, speaking of Jesus on the cross.
35:42
Ray Comfort: It says they divided my garments among them and for my clothing they cast lots.
35:46
Ray Comfort: That speaks to me of those soldiers being absolutely callous.
35:50
Ray Comfort: Here, here is.
35:52
Ray Comfort: Here, is Jesus writhing on the cross.
35:54
Ray Comfort: He doesn't exist.
35:55
Ray Comfort: All that matters is my gambling, and the Christian should live in the shadow of the Cross.
36:00
Ray Comfort: Yeah, we, we know the cost of our redemption, so everything I do is in the light of that cross.
36:05
Ray Comfort: Am I pleasing God by doing this?
36:08
Ray Comfort: Am I going to Vegas?
36:09
Ray Comfort: Am I gonna go to casino?
36:11
Ray Comfort: I want to gamble.
36:12
Ray Comfort: It's my life, I'll do what I want.
36:13
Ray Comfort: That's not the attitude of Christian.
36:15
Emeal Zwayne: Exactly, and that's often the problem.
36:17
Emeal Zwayne: You know, this is where you see liberties going in a direction that violates a law of love.
36:21
Emeal Zwayne: Yep, you know I mean think of a.
36:22
Emeal Zwayne: Paul said if eating meat makes my brother stumble, I'll never eat meat again.
36:25
Emeal Zwayne: Look, that's big.
36:27
Emeal Zwayne: You know that's in and out.
36:28
Emeal Zwayne: Whoa never have a double double again if it stumbles your brother, right.
36:33
Ray Comfort: You three, stumble me with you in an outing.
36:35
Ray Comfort: Why'd you point at me when you say you're married?
36:38
Emeal Zwayne: I should have said weiner schnitzel.
36:39
Emeal Zwayne: Well, yeah but, but you know it is the issue, because that's what's happened.
36:44
Emeal Zwayne: Unfortunately, people flaunt it.
36:45
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, okay, some people have their liberty to drink, but they're posting pictures of themselves doing it gleefully all the time.
36:52
Emeal Zwayne: You know, they're just.
36:53
Emeal Zwayne: It's like it becomes, it begins to define them and they have the I don't care attitude.
36:59
Emeal Zwayne: Hmm, and that's that's dangerous, you know.
37:03
Mark Spence: Yeah, so it's not my problem.
37:04
Mark Spence: Yeah, problem.
37:04
Mark Spence: What is that saying?
37:06
Mark Spence: A lot, the lotteries attacks on people that are poor at math.
37:09
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, yes that's a good one.
37:11
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and and again.
37:12
Emeal Zwayne: What's what's behind that?
37:14
Emeal Zwayne: You know um Proverbs 28 20 a faithful man will abound with blessings, but he who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.
37:21
Ray Comfort: And you look at casinos.
37:23
Ray Comfort: They're so lavish and it's they're just saying you can't win with us, but yeah odds are stacked against you.
37:29
Ray Comfort: Yeah, yeah.
37:30
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so and and again.
37:31
Emeal Zwayne: Man, this is such a good discussion I could.
37:34
Emeal Zwayne: I could do this like a two-hour podcast.
37:36
Oscar Navarro: Please don't keep it rolling guys.
37:39
Emeal Zwayne: But no, I'm just saying because we have to be careful of the flip side of that.
37:43
Emeal Zwayne: The person with their liberty Doesn't look at the person who says I'm refraining and begin to judge them as oh you're, you're a legalist, or you're just, you know You're you're just too uptight or you're too man to have it, to have it between you and the Lord and to be free in your own conscience and to do it.
38:02
Emeal Zwayne: There could be so many reasons.
38:04
Emeal Zwayne: I love for us to not, you know, question each other, but to look at the grand scheme of a believer's life so good.
38:10
Emeal Zwayne: Does this brother sister love God, and is it evident that Christ is foremost in their life?
38:14
Emeal Zwayne: Do they exude the fruit of the spirit and the fruit of love?
38:18
Emeal Zwayne: Are they kingdom-minded?
38:20
Emeal Zwayne: Are they preaching the gospel?
38:22
Emeal Zwayne: Are they?
38:22
Emeal Zwayne: And if the answers are yes, and then it's something that scripture doesn't explicitly forbid.
38:27
Emeal Zwayne: I'm not saying you can never, if you see it, as you know, being something that Maybe is affecting other areas of their life, to say, hey, man, you want to think about this, or just pray through it, you know, like humbly and gently, but oh, you know, generally, to be able to just say, man, have that between you and the Lord.
38:43
Mark Spence: I think I think a good litmus test to be able to see where you're at with gambling is are you okay with never gambling again?
38:50
Mark Spence: Yeah, are you okay with never going to that poker game?
38:53
Mark Spence: And unundoubtedly right.
38:54
Mark Spence: Oscar, you say that you wouldn't play this book.
38:56
Mark Spence: I would ask you are you okay with never playing poker again?
38:58
Mark Spence: And undoubtedly you'd say I have no problem with that.
39:00
Mark Spence: I also think.
39:01
Oscar Navarro: Where's your hope?
39:01
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, like think about it.
39:03
Oscar Navarro: Where is your hope?
39:04
Oscar Navarro: Is my hope going and walking away with a hundred twenty dollars?
39:08
Oscar Navarro: Because that's because then I'm gonna be able to go buy this cool thing, or because that's how I'm gonna pay the bills or get groceries.
39:13
Oscar Navarro: Where is your hope?
39:14
Oscar Navarro: My hope in that situation was to Fellowship.
39:18
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, was to meet somebody and show the gospel.
39:21
Oscar Navarro: You know what I mean.
39:22
Oscar Navarro: It was camaraderie.
39:23
Oscar Navarro: My hope wasn't in the game and the money.
39:25
Oscar Navarro: My hope was in the people around the table.
39:27
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
39:28
Emeal Zwayne: And like again, having said what I just shared about not judging each other For me on a personal level, I've decided I I'm not gonna do it.
39:37
Emeal Zwayne: I've played poker with you know some friends at different points, but there came a point where I decided I'm not gonna do it anymore.
39:44
Emeal Zwayne: And the reason why I'm not gonna do it is because, first of all, I have my children watching and I know that the next generation will typically take it a step further and again, I.
39:54
Emeal Zwayne: You guys may not have concluded that, and that's awesome, you know you, maybe your family dynamic is different, you think differently, but for me I've decided when I envision my sons as grown men gambling, or my daughters, I don't want them to do that because I know there could be snares for them there.
40:13
Emeal Zwayne: I may be able to handle it, I may be fine with it, they may not.
40:15
Emeal Zwayne: Same thing with alcohol.
40:16
Emeal Zwayne: I used to drink before I got saved, so that's part of why I don't as well.
40:20
Emeal Zwayne: But I also have the same mindset.
40:22
Emeal Zwayne: I don't want my, my sons, to do it.
40:24
Emeal Zwayne: That's why I don't smoke cigars.
40:25
Emeal Zwayne: I have lots of friends that do and and you know I just have decided.
40:29
Emeal Zwayne: You know what I don't want my kids to feel justified and do that.
40:34
Emeal Zwayne: Maybe that'll lead for them to vaping, maybe it'll lead for them to marijuana, maybe.
40:39
Emeal Zwayne: So I envision my son smoking cigars.
40:41
Emeal Zwayne: I just think I don't.
40:42
Emeal Zwayne: I just don't want them to do that.
40:43
Emeal Zwayne: I don't.
40:43
Emeal Zwayne: I'm worried about where they met.
40:45
Emeal Zwayne: That might they, that may take them, you know.
40:47
Emeal Zwayne: But other friends of mine do not think that way.
40:51
Emeal Zwayne: They don't feel that and I have to be able to say praise the Lord, not even question it, not even let my mind go there, but have my own conviction before the Lord joyfully does that make sense?
41:00
Ray Comfort: Yes, that's very sensible.
41:02
Ray Comfort: Great.
41:02
Ray Comfort: Some of us said no.
41:08
Ray Comfort: Alcohol is the only enemy the world has succeeded in loving.
41:12
Ray Comfort: Wow, someone once said that it's very deep yeah.
41:17
Emeal Zwayne: Okay, now let me.
41:18
Oscar Navarro: Let me go to other side note yeah, funny story hey don't say fun story.
41:22
Ray Comfort: You've raised the ball.
41:24
Oscar Navarro: I have a very mediocre story, that's a you mean one of easy stories less sound effects.
41:30
Oscar Navarro: My son, who's 12 years old the other day, was like dad, so at his school they've got Burger Bucks, and so you like, if you do, you know.
41:39
Oscar Navarro: If you clean the room or you stay after whatever, the teacher give you a Burger Buck and that Burger Buck, you know.
41:45
Oscar Navarro: With five Burger Bucks you can like buy a desk pad or buy a new pencil.
41:49
Mark Spence: Do they gamble with those Burger Bucks?
41:51
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, Oscar, do they gamble?
41:53
Oscar Navarro: So my son Levi, he's a genius and he's always very entrepreneurial.
41:57
Oscar Navarro: He came to me.
41:58
Oscar Navarro: He's like Dad, I have an idea.
41:59
Oscar Navarro: What do you think of this?
42:00
Oscar Navarro: I'm like what do you got?
42:01
Oscar Navarro: He goes okay, I'm going to have everyone, all of my friends, give me two Burger Bucks and then I'm going to pick a winner.
42:08
Oscar Navarro: And if I get 10 friends give me two Burger Bucks, that's 20 Burger Bucks, and I'm going to pick a winner and one of them will earn 15 Burger Bucks.
42:15
Oscar Navarro: That way, I keep five and they keep 15.
42:17
Oscar Navarro: And I was like you just invented the lottery.
42:20
Oscar Navarro: That is hilarious.
42:23
Emeal Zwayne: You just came up with the lottery.
42:25
Emeal Zwayne: I love Levi man.
42:26
Mark Spence: He's one of my favorite little guys.
42:27
Mark Spence: What did you say Go for it.
42:29
Mark Spence: This is how you do it.
42:29
Mark Spence: This is how you win.
42:32
Oscar Navarro: I gave him the branding mythology, the whole thing, excel spreadsheet he's so funny.
42:36
Emeal Zwayne: So on the other side of this, we have our two brothers, John Piper, John MacArthur, and both of them the Johns.
42:43
Oscar Navarro: We like to call them.
42:45
Emeal Zwayne: Both of them feel a little more strongly about the realm of gambling, and I think they give us some good points to really consider and to think about in terms of those of us that are in that realm and especially those of you that have an issue with it, because if you do, you need to repent, you need to walk away from gambling, you need to never go toward gambling A good list, miss Tess, if you have an issue with it, if you're married and your spouse has spoken about concerns of you gambling man, just stop.
43:10
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, you know what I mean.
43:11
Oscar Navarro: Just stop.
43:12
Oscar Navarro: That's a bad sign If your spouse cannot trust you as it pertains to this habit.
43:19
Oscar Navarro: The Lord has given you your spouse so that you can become more like Jesus, and they probably see something in your heart.
43:25
Oscar Navarro: They have some sort of loving concern for you that you should heed.
43:30
Oscar Navarro: Say that.
43:32
Emeal Zwayne: And if you have no, and if you know you have no self-control, and if you have an addictive itch where you cannot be at peace if you don't do it, those are problems and you need to walk away from it.
43:42
Emeal Zwayne: You've now been mastered by it.
43:43
Emeal Zwayne: So MacArthur says he believes that gambling is built on 10 sins Materialism, greed, discontent, exploitation, lazy lust for entertainment, distrusting God, pain for work and careful planning, irresponsible stewardship, failure to meet the needs of your family and failure to love your neighbor.
44:07
Ray Comfort: Is he against Allah he?
44:09
Emeal Zwayne: loves it.
44:09
Emeal Zwayne: I think, in all fairness I listened to a clip.
44:13
Emeal Zwayne: He's probably saying that these are the things that it can lead to, these are the things that really are the foundations for it, and so you have to be careful.
44:23
Emeal Zwayne: John Piper said look, we have one life to live for eternity in the glory of God.
44:28
Emeal Zwayne: Of course, what else would Piper say?
44:31
Emeal Zwayne: So what are we doing with our time in that regard?
44:34
Emeal Zwayne: He says in gambling, oftentimes the unreal is desired more than the real.
44:39
Emeal Zwayne: We're in this fantasy of getting all this money and we're just caught up in this whole fake world.
44:45
Emeal Zwayne: He said sometimes it's a blinding fog.
44:47
Emeal Zwayne: He was answering a question from someone who said hey, I only spend up to $50 a week on gambling.
44:54
Emeal Zwayne: And Piper just paused.
44:56
Emeal Zwayne: And he goes $200 a month, just gone up in the smoke.
45:01
Emeal Zwayne: He says think of what, the seriousness of that, how we lose that sense of that's.
45:05
Emeal Zwayne: I mean he talks about the average income of people.
45:09
Emeal Zwayne: In most countries it's not even $200 a month.
45:11
Ray Comfort: It's a quarter of a million dollars in 10 years.
45:13
Ray Comfort: Yeah, and he was adding that up.
45:16
Mark Spence: But if he's a winner, imagine the time.
45:19
Emeal Zwayne: I saw this.
45:20
Emeal Zwayne: There was a group of pastors.
45:21
Emeal Zwayne: I watched a video just in research and they were like talking about, would you take a tithe from someone who won $100 million in gambling?
45:27
Emeal Zwayne: They're like, yeah.
45:29
Mark Spence: The deal has had it long enough.
45:32
Emeal Zwayne: And then there's a desires to be rich, which again first Timothy 6, like we talked about, and then he reminds us it's God's money, first Chronicles 29, 14,.
45:42
Emeal Zwayne: But who am I and who are my people that we should be able to offer so willingly as this?
45:45
Emeal Zwayne: For all things come from you and of your own.
45:47
Emeal Zwayne: We have given you.
45:48
Emeal Zwayne: It's God's money.
45:49
Emeal Zwayne: We touched on that earlier.
45:50
Emeal Zwayne: He ends with there's vastly better ways to find joy through how you use your money.
45:58
Emeal Zwayne: And he talked about investing and he got it actually into the stock market.
46:00
Emeal Zwayne: And he talked about how he saw that as different than the blind chance of gambling and, like you said, the return.
46:06
Emeal Zwayne: You can get your money back out.
46:07
Emeal Zwayne: But there is that element and he makes a good point.
46:09
Emeal Zwayne: He says anything is a risk with your money.
46:10
Emeal Zwayne: You bury it in the ground, it could rot.
46:12
Emeal Zwayne: You put it in the bank, it's like collapse.
46:14
Emeal Zwayne: You know whatever.
46:15
Emeal Zwayne: There's all kinds of elements, but I think you know, I think those are all good things to consider.
46:22
Ray Comfort: And off to Vegas we go.
46:24
Emeal Zwayne: Can you imagine we finish the podcast, we throw out.
46:27
Mark Spence: It's funny.
46:28
Mark Spence: I had a marked deck of cards many years ago and my friend, drew Davis our friend.
46:33
Mark Spence: I said, drew, I don't know what's going on, but I just feel like something's happening to me.
46:38
Mark Spence: I just know what is in a card and he goes what do you mean?
46:41
Mark Spence: And I pulled out a deck of cards.
46:42
Mark Spence: I go, shuffle them, shuffle them.
46:44
Mark Spence: I laid them on the table, I started going through my go I think this is the three hearts.
46:47
Mark Spence: And he goes it is the three hearts.
46:49
Mark Spence: And as I was going through all the cards, he's all let's go to Vegas.
46:53
Emeal Zwayne: I loved it.
46:55
Emeal Zwayne: It's so funny.
46:55
Emeal Zwayne: Yeah Well, friends, let me let me finish with this, this quick exhortation Be a Christian who learns to never be rash in anything in life.
47:06
Emeal Zwayne: Learn to pause, learn to think, learn to research, learn to get counsel, learn to pray and to be thoughtful about what you do.
47:17
Emeal Zwayne: Honestly, I think one of the biggest sins is the sin of I just like how it feels I'm going to do it and we just rush into things.
47:26
Emeal Zwayne: That's not the type of life that is surrendered to the Lord, that's not the bond-servant life, that's not the slave of Christ life.
47:34
Emeal Zwayne: And so maybe even in hearing this, or maybe even having seen the title to this episode, you didn't want to listen, because in your heart and mind, you're like no, no, no, this I cannot stop doing.
47:47
Emeal Zwayne: If that's you, you're the one who really needs to think about it, because it's probably a problem.
47:52
Emeal Zwayne: Nothing is worth dishonoring the Lord for, nothing is worth hurting your family over, nothing is worth entering into sin and connection with, and so I just encourage you to think through that.
48:02
Emeal Zwayne: It's a serious issue and one we need to prayerfully think through, research, examine and get counsel on.
48:09
Ray Comfort: You're not going all serious, are you?
48:10
Ray Comfort: No, thank you for joining us, because I got a little laugh track here.
48:16
Ray Comfort: I wanted to play as waiting for you to say something funny.
48:19
Ray Comfort: I'd be waiting for you to say something funny, oh well you know, we're just gonna have to turn it off.
48:24
Emeal Zwayne: Well, friends, this has been a very interesting one.
48:27
Emeal Zwayne: Like I said, we could have gone on and on, but we did it.
48:29
Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget the enemy training course, podcasts of Living Waters, mug and the evidence study Bible, all livingwaterscom.
48:35
Emeal Zwayne: Hey, keep liking five stars, surprisingly, after almost two years.
48:39
Emeal Zwayne: It's almost unheard of and it's because of you guys.
48:42
Mark Spence: Two years yeah, almost two years I was trying to figure it out the other day it's been two years.
48:44
Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it's almost two years, it's still at five stars.
48:47
Emeal Zwayne: You almost never see that and it's because of your kindness and giving us those ratings.
48:50
Emeal Zwayne: Remember the comments you've seen, we read them and they bless us, they fuel us.
48:55
Emeal Zwayne: So continue to fuel us and encourage us.
48:57
Emeal Zwayne: Podcasts of LivingWaterscom for your thoughts, and then don't forget to go to your platforms and do that other stuff.
49:02
Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us, friends.
49:06
Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
49:12
Emeal Zwayne: The ultimate cure to insomnia.
49:15
Emeal Zwayne: That's clapping Ray, not laughing.
49:18
Emeal Zwayne: It's not laughing.
49:19
Emeal Zwayne: We're going to have to work on your timing.
49:21
Emeal Zwayne: We're going to have to work on your timing.
49:24
Emeal Zwayne: Here we go.
49:25
Emeal Zwayne: Oh, dear One star.
49:26
Ray Comfort: Yeah.
49:28
Emeal Zwayne: See you next time, friends, or maybe after this.
49:30
Emeal Zwayne: We won't.