Latest / Something to Say / Ep 08: "Why are men...?" with Chetan (ft. Utkarsh)

Transcript

Ep 08: "Why are men...?" with Chetan (ft. Utkarsh) · Something to Say

• 0:26
  Hi everyone.
• 0:27
  Thank you so much for listening to this episode.
• 0:30
  Knowing that this episode is about men, and also at the time of this coming out, there is a lot of news around the Cornell Seven, and if you don't know about the story, definitely, educate yourself with some caution.
• 0:48
  The trigger warning is that it has to do with sexual assault and rape.
• 0:54
  This episode on men and it being titled Why Are Men?
• 1:03
  is honestly, it's just the timing is strange, because this episode was actually something that I've been wanting to record for a while, and it is also...
• 1:16
  it was recorded early September before any of this was news.
• 1:24
  So I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge The name of the episode, the content around the episode, and where it stands in today's world.
• 1:41
  So I hope it's still a good episode to listen to and reflect just on dating men.
• 1:53
  And if you ever feel like you have been sexually assaulted, whether it's with a familiar person or an unfamiliar person, or...
• 2:08
  It does not matter.
• 2:10
  You do not deserve that, and I hope you have a safe place to go to discuss it, seek help, and if anyone is out there listening and doesn't feel like they have that, please feel free to DM me on Instagram, and I will try to help you as best as I can.
• 2:34
  But I hope you take this episode in the lighthearted manner that it was intended to be, that is just generally about dating guys Thank you for listening Hello, welcome back to another episode of Something to Say with me, your host, Curry Badshah, AKA Amrutha.
• 2:58
  And today's episode is centered around men.
• 3:02
  As a woman who dates men in the attempt to have a husband, I have had my fair share of difficulties and learned a lot by dating different kinds of men.
• 3:13
  My most recent wake-up call that was that I do not think I will end up with a South Asian man, as they have seemed to be the ones that have caused me the most problems.
• 3:26
  And sure, some of it is also like my own growth journey and, things like that.
• 3:31
  But it's gotten to the point that even my mother has said,"I don't understand why all these boys are making it so difficult.
• 3:39
  You might as well find a white guy like all your cousins." And she's not wrong.
• 3:44
  And this is also coming from the fact that I still ha-- I've said okay for my mom to set me up through the auntie network because I truly believe in, I don't know exactly how I'm supposed to meet my person, so I welcome all, all the help that I can get.
• 4:00
  And I gave her a heads up, like a year prior because I casually dated someone who wasn't South Asian, but a wonderful guy and taught me a lot about myself and what I want.
• 4:17
  And for more on that, literally listen to the previous episode about situationships because it was that guy that taught me a lot about myself and literally was the wake-up call that made me tell my mom it's not that I'm swearing off South Asian men altogether.
• 4:33
  I just think it's time for me to open up my, Not that I was specifically o- yeah, actually that's a lie.
• 4:41
  Who am I trying to kid y'all?
• 4:42
  I was really trying to find a South Asian husband.
• 4:46
  But then after, my situationship with a non-South Asian man who was very open to learning and very into the culture and all that stuff, I was like,"I'm shooting myself in the foot by keeping my lane so narrow," and it's not allowing me to open myself up to other races and other cultures to say,"Hey, maybe there's something better for me." I would rather have the kind of partner who wants to enthusiastically learn the cultural norms of my family.
• 5:21
  I also remember the very first formal boyfriend I had in college.
• 5:26
  He was Indian, and we got into fights all the time, and he was a man child, and, there was just all these little things that I kept going, like...
• 5:36
  I kept, I don't know, letting go of or...
• 5:39
  It was my very first relationship, right?
• 5:40
  So I was also like,"Am I not a good girlfriend?
• 5:43
  Am I not doing this right?" It was a q- a real question I actually asked him.
• 5:48
  And he was like,"Yeah, you are a good girlfriend.
• 5:50
  What do you mean?" It was because I had never dated someone, and he had before.
• 5:54
  But eventually it came to a point where I knew it wasn't gonna work out, and we...
• 5:59
  I didn't mean to break up with him at the time that I did but then I said something that made him question it"Then how is the future supposed to work out?" And I was quiet.
• 6:08
  But enough about that
• 6:11
  Curry Badshah: With me today is someone who not only knows me really well, but also my mom, and something about being a man especially a South Asian man, and all the labels that come with it.
• 6:21
  Curry Badshah: I'm excited to formally introduce my brother, Chetan, to the Something to Say listeners.
• 6:26
  Curry Badshah: Hi, bro.
• 6:27
  Curry Badshah: Hi.
• 6:27
  Curry Badshah: Welcome to this pod.
• 6:29
  Curry Badshah: How are you feeling about the topic today?
• 6:31
  Curry Badshah: Good.
• 6:31
  Curry Badshah: I think it should be interesting.
• 6:32
  Curry Badshah: Happy to be here and share my opinion on all things being a brown man, yeah, I guess so.
• 6:38
  Curry Badshah: All right.
• 6:39
  Curry Badshah: I'm gonna dive right into the first thing.
• 6:42
  Curry Badshah: What is the most accurate trope about men or even specifically South Asian men?
• 6:50
  Curry Badshah: Now, I've already talked about this enough times, but my thing is like the mama's boys and between raising girls and boys, girls have become really self-sufficient and independent that we won't tolerate the boys who haven't matured to understand this aspect.
• 7:04
  Curry Badshah: And I think these boys are still a bit spoiled by both parents, and it isn't realized till it's too late, AKA like the marrying age and why haven't you gotten married yet and things like that.
• 7:13
  Curry Badshah: And then they're not su- successful in that.
• 7:16
  Curry Badshah: And then I think most of the boys end up with non-Indian women because they, those non-Indian women might not see the same issues that we are used to seeing as Desi women by saying"Oh, no, that's such a red flag." And then going back to the fact that we've talked about this, that Appa, our dad, raised me to be pretty independent and self-sufficient, like that also throws its own loop for it.
• 7:39
  Curry Badshah: So when I have experienced South Asian men who are Not can't match my, ability to be independent or things like that, it's super, super frustrating.
• 7:51
  Curry Badshah: So back to the original question, what is a trope that you actually think is very true about Desi men especially?
• 7:59
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I think you alluded to a couple of them.
• 8:01
  Curry Badshah: I would say the first two that come to mind is being like a mama's boy.
• 8:06
  Curry Badshah: I've heard man child before- Oh, yeah is a, is something that I think can sometimes stir the pot in relationships.
• 8:13
  Curry Badshah: Not being able to do basic things around the house and, like- Oh, my goodness contribute in a meaningful way, cooking.
• 8:20
  Curry Badshah: Feeling like we have to be told to do do things over and over again to get the hint and actually get up and actually do the thing.
• 8:28
  Curry Badshah: So those are two that just right off the top of my head is something that I hear a lot from other friends, women that I've talked to, but then also just observing relationships from the outside perspective.
• 8:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 8:41
  Curry Badshah: Even for myself, I think emotional intelligence is another thing.
• 8:43
  Curry Badshah: Like- big one especially when it comes to South Asians and having immigrant parents.
• 8:48
  Curry Badshah: Like- Yeah sometimes that's not a big theme in the household.
• 8:53
  Curry Badshah: Every family is different and everyone's upbringing is different, but that's also something that if you haven't been exposed to it, especially at an early age, you don't really know how to handle certain situations, so that can cause issues.
• 9:03
  Curry Badshah: And then when you start getting into your own relationships and things, you start seeing these patterns from, what you observed your parents doing and how they maybe didn't resolve conflicts as well as you'd want to in a relationship.
• 9:15
  Curry Badshah: Yep.
• 9:16
  Curry Badshah: Then you start seeing those problems and, you can start putting the pieces together of, like, why are we not able to solve our problems?
• 9:22
  Curry Badshah: It's because never really learned how to do that effectively.
• 9:25
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 9:26
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 9:26
  Curry Badshah: I actually remember Amma once saying something about...
• 9:29
  Curry Badshah: I was complaining about my college boyfriend and we were getting into these fights and stuff, and she was like,"Yeah, that's how it is." And I was like,"This feels so hard" Yeah.
• 9:39
  Curry Badshah: and way too upsetting for this is just what relationships are." And it took, honestly, even just dating around and meeting different kinds of people to, South Asian or not, just to be like, no, it really doesn't have to be that hard.
• 9:54
  Curry Badshah: It there's a difference between constant arguing or constantly fighting about the same things over and over again ra- and- Just there being difficult things or tough topics of conversation or things to address.
• 10:08
  Curry Badshah: Those can be handled so differently.
• 10:10
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 10:10
  Curry Badshah: But I have a surprise so I also have a special guest contributor, Utkarsh Srivastava, who is a male dating coach from Single to Shaadi So we are also going to listen to what he has to say about our topics and give some input to his insights.
• 10:32
  Hey, y'all.
• 10:32
  This is Utkarsh from Single to Shadi, and also Utkarsh Apps.
• 10:36
  That's my podcast, and Single to Shadi is the matchmaking service that I represent and I work for.
• 10:42
  So check us out I guess one thing that I see guys, not just South Asian guys, but just guys doing is I see them just chasing really chasing after girls sending unwarranted, uncalled for like DMs just calling someone out of the blue.
• 11:02
  Just being very insistent like, if you don't get a response back, then you send another message, and another mon- another message, and just basically just chasing, always giving away your power and always on the back foot.
• 11:18
  That's something I just al- I observe not just with like South Asian men, but men in period, that a lot of men just are conditioned to chase.
• 11:29
  And I think they've confused that with courtship, which is totally different.
• 11:34
  So just that's a pretty common thing that I've been observing.
• 11:39
  Curry Badshah: I like that he mentioned like the chase being confused with courtship.
• 11:47
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 11:48
  Curry Badshah: Because as a woman, i would prefer to be pursued, but that does not mean keep bothering me until I say yes, which is also something that we grew up seeing in Bollywood movies, where it's like the guy is super annoying multiple times that- to this girl that he finds so pretty till all of a sudden she starts to see him from a different light or The funny thing is also when he does one random nice thing or has one genuinely endearing quality or trait, like she runs into him at the mandir or or he spends Sundays with his grandmother or until there's that point and then she's like,"Oh, actually, maybe he's not so bad." And it's like, girl, he was bothering the shit out of you this whole time.
• 12:30
  Curry Badshah: And so I wonder also at what point that became the conversation of"Hey, this is what you do to...
• 12:36
  Curry Badshah: You have to wear down the girl- Yeah until she finally sees it and then will decide to be yours." But Courtship is definitely something different.
• 12:45
  Curry Badshah: I want someone to have a connection, a meaningful conversation, and then take it from there if it's like, does this feel like a connection and can this move forward or is this,"Eh, that was a good conversation, but I'm not feeling it," whether it's attraction or whatever.
• 13:01
  Curry Badshah: But yeah.
• 13:01
  Curry Badshah: Any thoughts?
• 13:02
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Curry Badshah: I agree.
• 13:03
  Curry Badshah: I think a lot of it comes down to I think as a guy, how effective are you at communicating, right?
• 13:09
  Curry Badshah: That's an early sign of if you're not able to express your intention in a way that's meaningful to courtship, as you mentioned- it can often come off mixed.
• 13:21
  Curry Badshah: It can often come off as like there's no spark, there's no connection.
• 13:24
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 13:25
  Curry Badshah: I don't like this person.
• 13:26
  Curry Badshah: And also I think to piggyback a little bit on the, on being chasing a lot- I also see a lot of guys that will try to womanize.
• 13:36
  Curry Badshah: Oh.
• 13:36
  Curry Badshah: And I think, I think that also kind of- plays a part into just like a, a maturity thing.
• 13:47
  Curry Badshah: You're expecting- Like, just literally just being okay if not you, I'll get someone else- Yeah kind of thing.
• 13:52
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, or- Just being, like, watch you missed out.
• 13:54
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, or- And it's no one feels that way.
• 13:56
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 13:56
  Curry Badshah: And if you're- If you're that...
• 13:57
  Curry Badshah: If that...
• 13:57
  Curry Badshah: If you're that kind of guy, I don't think any girl's gonna actually feel that way.
• 14:00
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 14:00
  Curry Badshah: And I obviously to each their own.
• 14:02
  Curry Badshah: Some people are on their own paths, some for settling down.
• 14:06
  Curry Badshah: But, I've certainly met men who, almost scoff at the idea of courtship or something that's much more intentional.
• 14:15
  Curry Badshah: Bring back yearning.
• 14:16
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 14:17
  Curry Badshah: I've had those interactions before.
• 14:18
  Curry Badshah: Yearning and courtship.
• 14:19
  Curry Badshah: I always thought it was so- super weird more often than not.
• 14:21
  Curry Badshah: I mean- Is it that these, these guys will be like,"Nah, I'm not gonna do all that," buy flowers or- Yeah plan that shit.
• 14:27
  Curry Badshah: "No, I'm not doing that." Yeah.
• 14:28
  Curry Badshah: I think that there's this freedom with being single and, some people are okay with that, and some people enjoy that.
• 14:34
  Curry Badshah: But, I think I don't wanna speak for women certainly, but from my perspective as someone who tries to approach relationships with a sense of intention, it just doesn't always make that much sense- Yeah of, like- But I taught you better than that.
• 14:48
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 14:48
  Curry Badshah: If you wanna spend time with somebody, why would you just do it for, I don't know, something that isn't gonna go anywhere?
• 14:56
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 14:57
  Curry Badshah: I think...
• 14:57
  Curry Badshah: as someone who once upon a time also had a thought process of the, the thought of being tied to someone scares me, and I was like,"Oh, I have to update someone where I am?" I already have to do that for my parents.
• 15:10
  Curry Badshah: I don't wanna be like,"I'm at the store." M- not realizing that when you actually really like someone, and you have a really genuine connection with them and that, yeah, that kind of relationship, it's not that you're updating your whereabouts.
• 15:26
  Curry Badshah: It's just more of I'm doing...
• 15:28
  Curry Badshah: if someone's like,"Hey, what are you up to?" Or what are you doing?" And you're l- and you're at the store, you're like,"I'm at the store." Yeah.
• 15:34
  Curry Badshah: Or you're looking...
• 15:34
  Curry Badshah: You're like,"Oh, I'm at the store, so I'm gonna reply later." And you could be like,"I just got home.
• 15:38
  Curry Badshah: I was at the store." And there's a difference to that.
• 15:40
  Curry Badshah: And there's also obviously a difference to if a guy is that controlling also, being like,"Hey, I asked you where you were.
• 15:45
  Curry Badshah: Why didn't you answer me?" That's its own problem.
• 15:47
  Curry Badshah: But I think, I th- I think the answer, the, the answer to the question courtship is different from chasing, so you can still be in pursuit of someone with respect.
• 15:58
  Curry Badshah: And pay attention to that.
• 16:00
  Curry Badshah: I don't know.
• 16:00
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 16:01
  Curry Badshah: If men are listening to this at all Make note.
• 16:05
  Curry Badshah: Make note to the men out there.
• 16:07
  Curry Badshah: Okay.
• 16:08
  Curry Badshah: My next one.
• 16:09
  Curry Badshah: There is currently a male loneliness epidemic, right?
• 16:13
  Curry Badshah: We've heard it a lot.
• 16:14
  Curry Badshah: For men who sincerely want to get married, what do you think is something that they should learn to do or really practice to not only hold a woman's attention but also earn her respect?
• 16:29
  Curry Badshah: I think, the first thing for me that comes to mind is listening- Yeah and conversation.
• 16:36
  Curry Badshah: I think you can learn a lot about someone just by listening.
• 16:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Curry Badshah: And hearing somebody out and taking time to process when you're going on dates, you're trying to connect with somebody.
• 16:46
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 16:47
  Curry Badshah: That's the whole point, trying to get to know that person.
• 16:48
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Curry Badshah: If you're spending the entire time I don't know, focused on the wrong things, you're just gonna, you're just gonna lose the plot and- Yeah people aren't gonna be as interested.
• 16:57
  Curry Badshah: I'm gonna, I'm gonna take your answer and raise you, not just listening, but active listening.
• 17:01
  Curry Badshah: Acknowledge that you actually heard the answer or you heard the story or whatever that is that the, the person is sharing, and having a follow-up question.
• 17:11
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 17:12
  Curry Badshah: Because it can be easy to seem like you're listening, where you kind of zone out and we've all done it.
• 17:18
  Curry Badshah: I've done it, where you're passively listening- Yeah where you're like,"No, I heard what you said." Some people's stories drag on- and, guilty.
• 17:26
  Curry Badshah: And so you're...
• 17:28
  Curry Badshah: But active listening is different when you're like,"Oh, okay that's fascinating," and"Tell me more about that one aspect," and learning about that and then following up with another question based on that.
• 17:40
  Curry Badshah: Because I, as a chatty person, have had instances, too many instances, where I'm talking to a guy and I'm sharing all these things about myself and I think he's listening but then I end up feeling exhausted by the end of the date because I'm like,"All I did was talk." Yeah.
• 17:58
  Curry Badshah: "And I talked a lot and I don't feel like he really asked a lot of questions, or maybe he asked one or two and I...
• 18:04
  Curry Badshah: It launched me into a story." Yeah.
• 18:07
  Curry Badshah: And then I'll...
• 18:07
  Curry Badshah: Next thing I've gone from, I'm three stories deep and then I'm like we...
• 18:12
  Curry Badshah: I don't feel like I learned anything about him.
• 18:14
  Curry Badshah: Even if I tried to ask a question, maybe somehow it came back to me.
• 18:18
  Curry Badshah: So I think that's another thing that I'm like, yeah, if you're gonna listen, actively listen, but also follow up with- A question.
• 18:27
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I think there needs to be- Or share your own story.
• 18:29
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:30
  Curry Badshah: I was- Showing that like,"Oh, I understand because here's what happened to me." Yeah, I think there needs to be like a balance- Yeah especially when you're having those conversations.
• 18:37
  Curry Badshah: It can't just be one person dominating the conversation or the other.
• 18:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Curry Badshah: It needs to be back and forth.
• 18:41
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, and that's ideal, right?
• 18:43
  Curry Badshah: Because again, as someone who tends to dominate the conversation a lot because I get really loud and I get very, I use my hands a lot and gesture so then I get really into thing.
• 18:53
  Curry Badshah: But yeah, I think that's a good one that listening, active listening- Matching someone's energy matching energy.
• 18:59
  Curry Badshah: Tell me more about that because, again, you and I even as siblings, different energy.
• 19:04
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 19:05
  Curry Badshah: Look at us, hot and cold.
• 19:07
  Curry Badshah: I was like,"What do you wanna drink?" He's like,"Hot tea." And I was like,"It's 90 degrees.
• 19:11
  Curry Badshah: I'm gonna have ice tea." But I think that's another thing that like energy matching can be so nuanced.
• 19:17
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Curry Badshah: Because I have been told multiple times I need someone who will calm me down.
• 19:22
  Curry Badshah: I need the opposite of my energy.
• 19:24
  Curry Badshah: I need someone who will take all of this- Yeah and be like Yeah"Breathe.
• 19:31
  Curry Badshah: Relax." So I can be like,"Okay." But I also want someone who can hang- Yeah where I'm not like the only one be- being a goof, and someone can be a goof with me, even if it's like I'm goof at 100 and he's goof at 50.
• 19:46
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I think it's different for different people.
• 19:48
  Curry Badshah: Some t- like you said, some people need the opposite energy to balance out- and some people having the same energy can be complementary.
• 19:56
  Curry Badshah: And I think that kind of comes down to, like I said, listening and understanding.
• 20:01
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 20:01
  Curry Badshah: When you walk through that conversation, you can tell.
• 20:04
  Curry Badshah: If you've met somebody for the first time, most likely they'll be a little bit nervous.
• 20:07
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 20:07
  Curry Badshah: Like being a little bit more calm and composed but also excited- Yeah is a good way to let someone settle into the conversation- Yeah and become more at ease.
• 20:16
  Curry Badshah: And then you read the room, and then you take it from there.
• 20:18
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 20:19
  Curry Badshah: I, I actually like that you are equating the fact that it's matching the energy, and it's like matching the energy doesn't need to mean like apple and apple.
• 20:29
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 20:29
  Curry Badshah: It can be that it's apple and banana.
• 20:32
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Curry Badshah: But that's great.
• 20:33
  Curry Badshah: You get a fruit bowl.
• 20:35
  Curry Badshah: And so it can...
• 20:37
  Curry Badshah: it may just be...
• 20:38
  Curry Badshah: It could be a a, an opposites attract energy mix that actually works out.
• 20:43
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Curry Badshah: Or it could be the same energies, and I have seen both of those.
• 20:48
  Curry Badshah: They can talk about the black cat and the golden retriever couples.
• 20:52
  Curry Badshah: And I know a great couple that I feel like the woman is very golden retriever energy, and the, the guy is very black cat.
• 21:01
  Curry Badshah: But other times he's very golden retriever, and she's like- Sure.
• 21:08
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Curry Badshah: Or she'll say"Yeah, I might be golden retriever out, like out and about, but at home I'm very black cat." Like I'm just cat energy where I'm just like I wanna sit on the couch and do nothing and not talk to anyone and I need to recharge.
• 21:19
  Curry Badshah: And so then there's that balance again, like you said, of energy matching, knowing when to step in, step up, compliment.
• 21:26
  Curry Badshah: And then I also know a lot of couples who are like s- like similar birthdays, similar energy, agree on everything down to the fine point.
• 21:34
  Curry Badshah: And I'm like,"That's intense." Yeah.
• 21:36
  Curry Badshah: "There's two of you now." Yeah.
• 21:39
  Curry Badshah: And I'm like, but then also then, and then everyone goes,"Ah, this makes sense.
• 21:42
  Curry Badshah: They're like, they're made for each other in that way." Because they're like, they see it right there and, it's easy.
• 21:48
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Curry Badshah: So- Yeah so energy match doesn't need to be that it's right there.
• 21:52
  Curry Badshah: It can be that it's this, but it's like a nice hug.
• 21:55
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 21:55
  Curry Badshah: Exactly.
• 21:55
  Curry Badshah: It's a nice fit.
• 21:56
  Curry Badshah: It's a nice puzzle piece.
• 21:57
  Curry Badshah: Okay, let's go to see what Utkarsh says.
• 22:01
  Utkarsh: So I personally don't subscribe to there being a main, a male loneliness epidemic or whatever.
• 22:08
  Utkarsh: I think, yeah, people are lonely, guys and girls, but I don't think this is only a man thing.
• 22:14
  Utkarsh: And also, I will also say that I feel like if anything, I've been seeing a lot more guys expressing their feelings and becoming more vulnerable really.
• 22:24
  Utkarsh: I, I, so it's actually been quite the opposite.
• 22:27
  Utkarsh: I feel like actually before maybe in the early 2000s and prior I feel guys were a bit more closed off, guarded, et cetera, with the fee- with their feelings.
• 22:35
  Utkarsh: But I actually think it's the opposite now.
• 22:38
  Utkarsh: A lot of guys are starting to open up, and mental health is becoming a big thing now.
• 22:41
  Utkarsh: So I don't subscribe to there being a male loneliness epidemic.
• 22:48
  Utkarsh: Now the second part to that question was how can a guy hold a woman's attention respect, et cetera, right?
• 22:58
  Utkarsh: The way to do that is to stop trying to hold a woman's attention and trying to get their respect, et cetera.
• 23:04
  Utkarsh: Doesn't mean you'll be rude or anything.
• 23:06
  Utkarsh: What I'm saying is be your authentic self and just talk to a person like you're talking to some, like a cashier or, I don't know, someone on the street.
• 23:17
  Utkarsh: You have respect for them.
• 23:18
  Utkarsh: You have camaraderie, et cetera, et cetera.
• 23:21
  Utkarsh: But stop trying to force...
• 23:24
  Utkarsh: You're not a clown.
• 23:25
  Utkarsh: You're not a court jester trying to entertain a person here.
• 23:29
  Utkarsh: That's not you.
• 23:31
  Utkarsh: You need to just be you.
• 23:32
  Utkarsh: And when you do that, people will automatically gravitate towards you.
• 23:37
  Utkarsh: It doesn't always have to be romantic gravitation, but even just as friends or something.
• 23:41
  Utkarsh: People will just learn to respect you that way when you're being your natural, authentic self, rather than trying to be some clown that's trying to make people laugh or, entertain people.
• 23:51
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 23:53
  Curry Badshah: That, there is a second part to that question.
• 23:55
  Curry Badshah: I forgot.
• 23:57
  Curry Badshah: I forgot.
• 23:58
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 23:59
  Curry Badshah: How are you what's a way to hold someone's interest or a woman's interest and respect and things like that.
• 24:04
  Curry Badshah: And he's got a point because if you're gonna be rude to the waiter or rude to waitstaff or whatever when we're on a date, I'm gonna be like, I don't have any respect for you." Because I like to make sure I try to remember a waitstaff's name and then use their name in conversation, and then I feel really bad when I do forget their name.
• 24:22
  Curry Badshah: But yeah, if a guy's, like, rude or doesn't care then that's gonna, that's gonna really piss me off and be like,"You're...
• 24:30
  Curry Badshah: I don't know if I can believe you to be a good person overall,"'cause then what concerns me is, like, how are you going to talk to my parents?
• 24:38
  Curry Badshah: How do you talk to your own parents?
• 24:39
  Curry Badshah: If you just talk to- Yeah strangers like that- and you don't have a sense of general courteousness or respect for just the common person it would worry me how you deal with elders.
• 24:49
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 24:50
  Curry Badshah: But your thoughts.
• 24:50
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I like that he talks about, being authentic- and how important authenticity is.
• 24:55
  Curry Badshah: That, I would say, like, when you're meeting somebody yeah, everyone wants to be on their best behavior, right?
• 25:02
  Curry Badshah: Of course.
• 25:02
  Curry Badshah: Of course.
• 25:02
  Curry Badshah: But at the same time, if you're showing somebody a version of yourself that isn't really you, how long can you really realistically, like- Keep that up keep that up, right?
• 25:11
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 25:11
  Curry Badshah: At some point, maybe things go well and, you start dating this person, you get into a relationship.
• 25:17
  Curry Badshah: If a couple months down the line all of a sudden you start letting your hair down and then the p- They're gonna be like,"Who are you?" Yeah, the person that you're dating, they're like,"I...
• 25:24
  Curry Badshah: You're a completely different person than- Yeah than the guy I thought I was signing up for." And I think- Then it's doomed anyway.
• 25:29
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Curry Badshah: Then it's doomed anyway.
• 25:30
  Curry Badshah: And so I think, authenticity is a, a great point that he brought up because, you wanna be yourself and then let somebody decide if that's- Yeah that's their cup of tea.
• 25:39
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 25:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 25:41
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 25:41
  Curry Badshah: That makes sense.
• 25:43
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, because don't- Don't put, yeah, don't put up a farce.
• 25:47
  Curry Badshah: Just be, yeah, just be genuine.
• 25:50
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 25:50
  Curry Badshah: I don't know why that seems like such a big deal, but to his point also about the timeline of things maybe it was a thing that we all did before of don't let your crazy show too soon and things like that.
• 26:02
  Curry Badshah: Maybe 10 years ago when I first started dating that was more of a thing.
• 26:06
  Curry Badshah: But now, yeah, I would like to think that it's just more of a genuine,"Hey, I'm gonna show up, and this is me." But What I do worry about are the people who also are, like, shitty, and they're like,"Yeah that's how I am, so take it or leave it." But I guess to your point, it's also yeah, I'm gonna leave it.
• 26:24
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 26:24
  Curry Badshah: I'm not gonna do that because if you're gonna show me who you are immediately and I don't like it, like, why even- Yeah why even try?
• 26:32
  Curry Badshah: Sp- dating isn't necessarily the easiest thing in the world.
• 26:35
  Curry Badshah: There's a sense of vulnerability there- Yeah that not everybody's comfortable with.
• 26:40
  Curry Badshah: And, I've...
• 26:41
  Curry Badshah: Even going back to, the first part of the question around the male loneliness epidemic- I think there's a lot to be learned about being vulnerable and talking about things.
• 26:52
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Curry Badshah: And if you can talk to your parents or you can talk to a sister or sibling- Yeah Your friends about it, I think it becomes easier in those conversations to Yeah, maybe you're not perfect, but there's a self-awareness that you can bring to the conversation and be like,"Look." Do the work.
• 27:08
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 27:08
  Curry Badshah: I realize that these are things, and you have that be part of the conversation- Yeah and say"Yes, it is part of who I am," but it's also something that's actively being worked on.
• 27:17
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 27:17
  Curry Badshah: Which is not always the easiest thing to do, and maybe not something to do on a first date.
• 27:22
  Curry Badshah: But eventually, like- yeah.
• 27:23
  Curry Badshah: Like- the, the,"Hey I don't love that this happened," and be like,"Oh, okay, I didn't realize I did it." Yeah.
• 27:27
  Curry Badshah: "Maybe I should work on that." But yeah, the male lone- loneliness epidemic whole thing, he says he doesn't believe that it's a thing.
• 27:34
  Curry Badshah: Do you?
• 27:36
  Curry Badshah: And we've had this conversation by accident also one time- Yeah driving in the car with- I've experienced it personally.
• 27:42
  Curry Badshah: I have friends that I'm super, super close with that I have talked to about things that I've been personally going through.
• 27:49
  Curry Badshah: And, when things are serious, I think, I feel grateful for the friends that I have.
• 27:53
  Curry Badshah: They'll always listen, and they'll always respond with respect and- and understanding.
• 27:58
  Curry Badshah: But also sometimes it's hard.
• 28:00
  Curry Badshah: If y- if you're talking to friends that you've known your entire life, childhood friends, for example, a lot of the times things can be taken as a joke and everything is unserious.
• 28:10
  Curry Badshah: And you're just laughing everything off or, you're unknowingly maybe pushing certain buttons.
• 28:16
  Curry Badshah: And so I think it can be difficult sometimes to say,"Hey this is a super serious thing." Even if you do say that, there's a chance that- Yeah maybe they're not taking that seriously.
• 28:24
  Curry Badshah: And then, after, after a couple times it can give be...
• 28:27
  Curry Badshah: it can be hard to feel like, okay, this is a vulnerable space where- Yeah I can just say things.
• 28:31
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 28:31
  Curry Badshah: And, you have to pick and choose your moments a little bit.
• 28:33
  Curry Badshah: Do you think that's just more of a guy thing?
• 28:35
  Curry Badshah: 'Cause I don't think I've had that experience with my girlfriends.
• 28:37
  Curry Badshah: 100%.
• 28:38
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 28:38
  Curry Badshah: 100%.
• 28:39
  Curry Badshah: I think it's, growing up, like- It was weird to be, like, the kid the guy or the boy in the group that was, like, sensitive- Yeah and crying over a bunch of different things.
• 28:51
  Curry Badshah: I don't...
• 28:52
  Curry Badshah: N- not saying that I was like that, but, maybe, I don't know.
• 28:54
  Curry Badshah: I don't know if you cried like that much- I mean- to, to your friends, but- Yeah I would call you a sensitive boy.
• 29:00
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I mean- And not in a negative way.
• 29:01
  Curry Badshah: You would tell me I looked nice.
• 29:03
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I mean- I'd come down ready for school and you'd be like,"You look nice today." And I'd be like- I-"Thanks" I think you can...
• 29:09
  Curry Badshah: I think to that point, right?
• 29:11
  Curry Badshah: It's something that I've embraced.
• 29:12
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:13
  Curry Badshah: It's something that's not always easy for people to embrace.
• 29:15
  Curry Badshah: I think it j- just depends on, I don't know your confidence level- Yeah and what your experiences have been like.
• 29:22
  Curry Badshah: I think a lot of the times when you haven't had good experiences, it can be hard to kind of- To open up with- Yeah, like- If it's, if you're, the space is not given.
• 29:29
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:29
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:29
  Curry Badshah: And then that, that kind of turns into, I don't know isolation or, like- Yeah you get triggered and then, yeah, you have these outbursts and all of a sudden it's like- Men, go to therapy.
• 29:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:41
  Curry Badshah: At a certain point it's like you, you expose yourself to the point where you are alone because it's hard to maintain a healthy relationship with anybody.
• 29:48
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Curry Badshah: Not necessarily romantic, but- yeah even with friends.
• 29:51
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:52
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Curry Badshah: Good job.
• 29:54
  Curry Badshah: I'm proud of you.
• 29:57
  Curry Badshah: I like to think I had a hand in all this.
• 29:59
  Curry Badshah: Sure.
• 29:59
  Curry Badshah: Okay.
• 30:00
  Curry Badshah: So I know, So this is something that came up to in my brain recently because it was something that you also said that men feeling that love and respect are equal.
• 30:13
  Curry Badshah: Respect will equal love.
• 30:16
  Curry Badshah: Do you think that's a guy thing, or do you think that's a South Asian guy thing?
• 30:21
  Curry Badshah: Because I didn't realize it till later, but I feel like that's how Appa sees love- is via respect.
• 30:29
  Curry Badshah: So un- when he would get upset with us being sarcastic, he thought it was disrespectful.
• 30:34
  Curry Badshah: And I remember he brought up years later a joke of me saying that we're cheap, and it was like the intention was that Indians are cheap.
• 30:42
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 30:42
  Curry Badshah: As a full, community.
• 30:46
  Curry Badshah: And he took it really personally that I was calling him cheap, and he was trying to buy me whatever I said.
• 30:52
  Curry Badshah: And we were in India, and he felt like the, the family was like,"Oh wow, she's calling you cheap." So it do- it took only literally recently in the past year, or few years to realize that oh, maybe he is equating respect for love and thinks that if all the- arguments I've had with him over the years that I don't love him because I, he thinks I don't respect him.
• 31:19
  Curry Badshah: When in reality it's like, no, I will always love him of course.
• 31:22
  Curry Badshah: And I have all respect for him as well, but disagreements will happen or like people will just end up not understanding jokes or like the communication barrier could be different.
• 31:33
  Curry Badshah: Like all those kinds of things.
• 31:34
  Curry Badshah: But again, back to the question'cause I went on an entire loop.
• 31:38
  Curry Badshah: Love and respect.
• 31:39
  Curry Badshah: Tell me more.
• 31:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 31:41
  Curry Badshah: Of your thoughts,'cause you said it to me and I was like,"Oh." Yeah.
• 31:44
  Curry Badshah: I think- Makes sense I don't think it's specific to South Asian men.
• 31:48
  Curry Badshah: I think all men really value a sense of respect and, I think there's a lot that men can sometimes carry on their shoulders.
• 32:00
  Curry Badshah: It's sometimes it's there's a lot that we carry but we don't talk about and maybe part of that is protecting the people that we care about the most and trying to make sure that like we're taking care of them so that they don't have to worry.
• 32:15
  Curry Badshah: And I think a lot of the times you, you want things like that to be recognized.
• 32:19
  Curry Badshah: You want things like that to be seen and appreciated.
• 32:22
  Curry Badshah: And I think sometimes it can be a, a maybe a thankless role to play- in all of it.
• 32:29
  Curry Badshah: Okay.
• 32:29
  Curry Badshah: And sometimes, like as a man you know you're trying to navigate all of this stuff, but then there may be other things that happen in daily life that maybe you didn't take out the trash or, whatever, right?
• 32:40
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Curry Badshah: It's like these things add up, things that you didn't do.
• 32:43
  Curry Badshah: It starts to...
• 32:44
  Curry Badshah: That starts to become the focus.
• 32:45
  Curry Badshah: Like the things that you didn't do or the things that you should be doing as opposed to like the contributions.
• 32:51
  Curry Badshah: And I think recognizing that, appreciating it, and highlighting it for a guy I think means a lot.
• 33:01
  Curry Badshah: It shows that you're seen, shows that, you're heard, your opinion is valid, the things that you have to say and the things that you think are not just being like in one ear out the other or like he's just a boy or he's just a guy.
• 33:18
  Curry Badshah: And like those types of comments I think can be- maybe it doesn't bother everybody.
• 33:24
  Curry Badshah: But when you hear that all the time, it starts to devalue your own opinions and what you have to say and think.
• 33:31
  Curry Badshah: And, I think at a certain point in time, it's easy to feel like, yeah, maybe I'm not heard, I'm not respected I'm not valued.
• 33:41
  Curry Badshah: And I think feeling that way, like actually being in a relationship or being around friends or being around people that do make you feel respected is, I think, the difference between, again, like a healthy dynamic and- Yeah one that just grows in resentment and then, it starts to become a little bit toxic.
• 34:01
  Curry Badshah: And it won't necessarily serve you in the ways that you need- Yeah which sometimes can be swept under the rug.
• 34:07
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 34:10
  Curry Badshah: Okay.
• 34:11
  Curry Badshah: I can agree with that.
• 34:12
  Curry Badshah: I can see it, and that's what I'm saying, like in the past, like you bringing it up to me recently, and then it made me think about it more and how I started to understand I guess I...
• 34:24
  Curry Badshah: It's not that I didn't know it before, but I started to understand it in this perspective- Yeah more, more recently, and I'm like,"Yeah, okay, I can see it." And just giving also the respect and space to be like,"Let me talk to you about it.
• 34:38
  Curry Badshah: Let me come to you with a solution," or,"Let me come to you with a an opportunity to provide a solution." And that being also one, one layer of it all.
• 34:46
  Curry Badshah: Okay, so this next one.
• 34:49
  Curry Badshah: We are true millennials, right?
• 34:50
  Curry Badshah: 30, 35.
• 34:52
  Curry Badshah: If anybody knows Payal for Style on Instagram and I think maybe TikTok, she has she does a lot of videos on how she raised her two boys, whom I assume are technically gen alpha.
• 35:05
  Curry Badshah: But she raises them to be, like, kind, caring, sensitive, and one of them l- her younger one loves flowers and likes to paint his nails and do skincare with her.
• 35:17
  Curry Badshah: And she is very proud of that, and she's like,"That's okay.
• 35:21
  Curry Badshah: Let's do that." And, even her husband will sometimes paint his nails, especially when the Eagles play.
• 35:27
  Curry Badshah: And she has tough conversations with the older son about acceptance and these things, and society projects onto her and on her video saying that,"You're making your boys sissies.
• 35:39
  Curry Badshah: You're making them gay.
• 35:41
  Curry Badshah: You're making them all this other stuff." And her response is always"I don't believe that I am, but even if they ended up being gay or whatever, it, my love for them does not diminish in any which way." So that being said, what are you seeing from the next generation of men, and again, maybe even specifically South Asian men, that you think are wonderful traits or see as a problem that are just starting to build?
• 36:10
  Curry Badshah: And I don't know how many, like- I was gonna say like Gen Z- Gen Z are, obviously Gen Alpha, it would be bad if we knew a lot of gen alpha kids dating,'cause they'd be, like, teenagers, and that'd be weird.
• 36:24
  Curry Badshah: But yeah.
• 36:25
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, honestly I'm not sure if I've identified things that I know I'm seeing that are problematic, I would certainly hope that what I would like to see- is I think- Amongst men uplifting each other- Okay being there for each other- Yeah and like having open conversations about things.
• 36:47
  Curry Badshah: There's a lot, l- any person- Tell your male friends I love you.
• 36:50
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 36:50
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 36:50
  Curry Badshah: I remember there was a time where like I, one of my best friends in college, he just started s- like I would go hang out with him, and he just, I gave him like a bro hug.
• 36:59
  Curry Badshah: And he was like,"All right man, love you." And I was like,"Yeah, I love you too." Like I g- I genuinely feel it.
• 37:04
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 37:04
  Curry Badshah: I would never think to say it- Yeah just because that's I don't know, that's how guys- It's not it's not a, it's not a dude thing to do yeah, it's not a masculine thing.
• 37:10
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 37:10
  Curry Badshah: But it's true, and, I think having those conversations earlier, like growing up, just being more vulnerable is, something that I would love to see.
• 37:20
  Curry Badshah: I think obviously the- Good answer the knowledge and like the awareness and the stigmas and things have, we've been slowly breaking these walls down.
• 37:30
  Curry Badshah: And so I think it becomes easier.
• 37:32
  Curry Badshah: It, I would certainly encourage like the younger generation to take advantage of that and build that community of like strong men that you can lean on- Yeah when you're not feeling as strong as you- Yeah need to be.
• 37:45
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Curry Badshah: Reach out and tell'em you love'em.
• 37:46
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, because I think- Or I need you, I need to talk, and it's serious because the other thing too is a lot of the times you can fight your own battles, like it's exhausting.
• 37:54
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 37:54
  Curry Badshah: And you need those people that, you can, y- you can lean on and y, you can grab their hand and they'll help you up.
• 38:01
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 38:01
  Curry Badshah: So I would certainly say like I would love to see like the younger generation just being, be more vulnerable.
• 38:07
  Curry Badshah: Like there's no, there's, there is nothing wrong with like being upset about things- Yeah crying about things.
• 38:12
  Curry Badshah: There's nothing wrong about about being stressed and not knowing how to handle it or maybe having an identity crisis of sorts and trying to- Yeah figure out who you are as a person in this world.
• 38:21
  Curry Badshah: It's a very real problem that that applies to both men and women.
• 38:25
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 38:26
  Curry Badshah: But like for guys, have those conversations.
• 38:28
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 38:28
  Curry Badshah: Especially as you're growing up and you make new friends in different phases of your life find at least one person at each phase of your life to have that conversation with, and I think that can change a lot as far as like who you are as a person, how comfortable you feel about having those conversations and moving through life and those challenges.
• 38:49
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 38:50
  Curry Badshah: I'm so proud of you.
• 38:53
  Curry Badshah: I'm so glad that you have these, these insights and you're able to articulate them, and then you have these strong, confident feelings of yeah, I love my friends.
• 39:01
  Curry Badshah: And I even remember I think the first time you were like,"Yeah, I FaceTime with Anand." Shout out Anand.
• 39:08
  Curry Badshah: And I'm like, that's cute.
• 39:10
  Curry Badshah: I don't know why I didn't think about boys FaceTiming each other or calling and talking to each other about like- Yeah oh, I'm struggling with this, and, that's your best friend, and you're like,"That's- that's my bro." Like- Yeah we grew up together and I was like, wow, that's super endearing because I just...
• 39:24
  Curry Badshah: I know I've done it with my friends, but I'm like,"I'm a girl." Yeah.
• 39:28
  Curry Badshah: And you're a boy, and so I don't, I didn't think about it in that way, and I was like that's really nice.
• 39:33
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, I mean- so I'm glad you have those friends and then also have been able to ask.
• 39:39
  Curry Badshah: And I know it's not always easy to ask also for and that goes for anyone.
• 39:42
  Curry Badshah: Even if I've asked multiple friends for support multiple times, it's, it gets hard sometimes to keep asking.
• 39:47
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, and- But- so- sometimes, like- I know going back to there was a time there was a time like I had gotten out of a relationship and I was going through a difficult time trying to just navigate all the feelings and the experiences that I had.
• 40:04
  Curry Badshah: And this was around COVID, so like there was like this, everybody was stuck at home and it was lockdown.
• 40:09
  Curry Badshah: And he had hi- he had like a...
• 40:11
  Curry Badshah: He was renting like a two-bedroom house.
• 40:13
  Curry Badshah: He had a spare room, and I was like,"Hey, how would you feel if I just had a chance to like..." We always talked about being roommates and just, having fun and just being young adults and whatever.
• 40:25
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 40:25
  Curry Badshah: And I was like how would you feel about me like staying with you for a couple of weeks or a month or whatever?" And he was like,"Yeah, let's do it." And I remember being there and telling him like we were...
• 40:36
  Curry Badshah: I think we were like just throwing a Frisbee around or whatever, and I remember telling him specifically like,"I'm really glad we did this because we grew up together, but we didn't go to the same college together." So like between the years of 18 to 22, there's so much that happens in college that can affect who you are as a person.
• 40:54
  Curry Badshah: You meet different people.
• 40:56
  Curry Badshah: You're starting to find yourself more as an adult- Yeah and you're embarking on like a career journey and, you start making like money for the first time.
• 41:05
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Curry Badshah: There's all these things that you now have to deal with, and you become a different person.
• 41:09
  Curry Badshah: Sometimes like at least in, in that situation I just needed like that distraction of let me...
• 41:16
  Curry Badshah: Like I'll always be close with my f- my best friend, but like there's still s- a reconnection or- Yeah a reintroduction of like who we are as adults at this stage in our lives.
• 41:24
  Curry Badshah: And I remember at the end of that month that I was staying with him, like I just wrote him a card just being like,"Hey, I'm very grateful for the fact that you opened your doors to allow me to come in, and we got to cook meals together and watch TV on the couch and, hang out with his friends and just be a distraction for me in my life, helps me get back up on my feet and do what I need to do moving forward.
• 41:49
  Curry Badshah: Like processing everything that I've been through personally- Yeah and then just being like,"Okay, I know I have this person that I can lean on." He's been seeing how I'm dealing with things on a day-to-day basis.
• 41:59
  Curry Badshah: He also has some insight into what I'm going through.
• 42:02
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 42:03
  Curry Badshah: It also allows him the opportunity to show up for me.
• 42:05
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 42:06
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 42:06
  Curry Badshah: Like I- And I feel really good as a- Yeah friend to be like,"Yeah, like I'm glad I could help you." Yeah, like-"I could be there for you." I'm glad I made that first step because it, it allowed both of us to feel closer with each other- Yeah and lean on each other.
• 42:18
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 42:18
  Curry Badshah: And I think that's made a huge difference.
• 42:19
  Curry Badshah: So- Yeah I would, certainly encourage most people to, Yeah, it can be hard to be that person that initiates, but sometimes that's all it takes.
• 42:27
  Curry Badshah: It can just snowball from there and- Yeah it creates something special.
• 42:30
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 42:31
  Curry Badshah: That's lovely.
• 42:32
  Curry Badshah: That's great.
• 42:32
  Curry Badshah: I completely forgot what I was gonna say- for this whole thing.
• 42:36
  Curry Badshah: Oh, I actually, no, I remember, before we go to Utkarsh.
• 42:39
  Curry Badshah: The, the one trait that I think I've noticed of Gen Z at least is the space that they at least...
• 42:50
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, again, this is what I've noticed.
• 42:52
  Curry Badshah: The space that they've been able to give a woman to succeed beyond a man's success.
• 43:00
  Curry Badshah: So I dated two guys, one who was definitely Gen Z and one who was just couple of years younger than me.
• 43:08
  Curry Badshah: And the Gen Z guy was also, he was asking me a lot of like deeper questions than I was used to versus, if you're just casually seeing someone.
• 43:20
  Curry Badshah: And I would give like broad answers, and I'd be like,"I don't know can't be too picky,'cause you get older in life," and whatever.
• 43:27
  Curry Badshah: And he was like why not?
• 43:28
  Curry Badshah: Men are- m- men get picky all the time.
• 43:31
  Curry Badshah: Men are always picky.
• 43:32
  Curry Badshah: Men pick so mu- so many things, so why can't you be picky?" And I was like No, see that, that makes sense.
• 43:38
  Curry Badshah: Logically that makes sense, but you've...
• 43:40
  Curry Badshah: i...
• 43:41
  Curry Badshah: We come in a...
• 43:41
  Curry Badshah: We come from a world where the older a woman gets the less picky you're allowed to be because un- otherwise you'll end up alone, right?
• 43:50
  Curry Badshah: That's what society pushes.
• 43:52
  Curry Badshah: And so for him to be like what are you looking for in someone?" And I'm like...
• 43:56
  Curry Badshah: or I think he asked one of the questions I remember was like,"Oh, you dance.
• 44:00
  Curry Badshah: Do you want to be with someone who also ac- dances or is into dancing or things like that?" And I was like obviously that would be nice, but it doesn't have to be.
• 44:08
  Curry Badshah: As long as he's not upset that I'm dancing." And he's like,"This is not that's...
• 44:12
  Curry Badshah: what is this answer?" And he was like,"You are..." And so from there it stemmed I don't wanna be too picky about what kind of person that I want because what...
• 44:20
  Curry Badshah: what if he's really great in all other aspects but then he doesn't like to dance?
• 44:23
  Curry Badshah: Just toss him aside?
• 44:25
  Curry Badshah: No.
• 44:25
  Curry Badshah: And he's like,"I don't..." I...
• 44:27
  Curry Badshah: he was like,"I understand what you're saying, but men are picky all the time, so if you want someone who does...
• 44:32
  Curry Badshah: has certain traits, you're allowed to want those things." Yeah.
• 44:36
  Curry Badshah: And I think it...
• 44:36
  Curry Badshah: the, the factor it just came down to was just like, if you want it, it's okay to want it.
• 44:41
  Curry Badshah: Even if it seems silly, it's okay to want it.
• 44:44
  Curry Badshah: And so that space that he made for that kind of a response by saying also men are picky all the time, you're allowed to want certain things too- really first it broke my brain because I was like,"But he, you, you-" Validation?
• 44:57
  Curry Badshah: I was just like,"You don't understand.
• 44:59
  Curry Badshah: You're so young."'Cause he was younger than my my brother.
• 45:03
  Curry Badshah: He was eight years younger than me.
• 45:04
  Curry Badshah: But I was like,"Okay." But it did ultimately open up my mind, and I was like,"No, he has a point." And then other things I've looked into about manifesting the kind of person that you want or the kind of things that you want in in life, it's like if you even...
• 45:20
  Curry Badshah: just get specific.
• 45:21
  Curry Badshah: You want the thing, a- ask for the thing, because if that's what you want, you should get it, right?
• 45:27
  Curry Badshah: And then if you get something close enough that's for you to decide, is is the close enough good enough, or no, I asked for a thing and so I want that thing.
• 45:36
  Curry Badshah: So that's one thing that I learned.
• 45:37
  Curry Badshah: And then another, the other guy that was a couple of years younger than me, he was also very...
• 45:43
  Curry Badshah: And I wouldn't classify him as Gen Z, but from, since he was right after the other the guy eight years younger, he he was very encouraging of"Oh, I got this job, and I got this thing, and like I'm in pursuit of, X, Y, and Z." And he was always very like,"Oh, I'm so excited for you, and let me come and support, and let me be there." And whether it was like the job or an extracurricular like dance or whatever related, he was very encouraging.
• 46:10
  Curry Badshah: And maybe it was just that I hadn't really dated someone in a while.
• 46:13
  Curry Badshah: But for him to be so encouraging and like really make space and uplift me was also really nice.
• 46:19
  Curry Badshah: So again, I don't know if that was just like a younger thing or maybe'cause he had a sister.
• 46:23
  Curry Badshah: I don't know what factor that is, but I thought that was really nice.
• 46:25
  Curry Badshah: And so I'm hoping there's more of that, those kinds of things.
• 46:31
  Curry Badshah: So let's go with Gersh now
• 46:34
  Utkarsh: I believe the next generation of men, and not just the next generation actually, even like millennials and stuff, right?
• 46:40
  Utkarsh: I'm s- I'm seeing it that like guys are becoming more expressive with their feelings and just being a lot more vulnerable with each other really.
• 46:47
  Utkarsh: And not just with their girlfriends and I'm not even talking romantic, I'm talking friends that are girls.
• 46:52
  Utkarsh: Not just with them, but even with their fellow guy friends.
• 46:55
  Utkarsh: Like I'm seeing that a lot more that guys are becoming more vulnerable, expressive with their feelings and stuff.
• 47:01
  Utkarsh: And it's nice really.
• 47:02
  Utkarsh: I don't really see a downside to any of that.
• 47:05
  Utkarsh: Yeah, taking care of your skin, your health and all that.
• 47:07
  Utkarsh: Like I, I don't...
• 47:08
  Utkarsh: Like your hygiene.
• 47:10
  Utkarsh: I'm not seeing an- any downside for any of that really.
• 47:14
  Utkarsh: If anything like they're just gonna look even better and be even more physically attractive to the ladies and be more emotionally available.
• 47:22
  Utkarsh: So I'm not really seeing any downside to any of this.
• 47:27
  Curry Badshah: Cool.
• 47:27
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, so essentially what you said about being emotionally open- Yeah with your friends, and that's with your friends, not just dating...
• 47:36
  Curry Badshah: Not just in dating, but with the people in your life.
• 47:40
  Curry Badshah: And then, yeah, grooming.
• 47:41
  Curry Badshah: Grooming is so important.
• 47:44
  Curry Badshah: Grooming, for taking care of yourself.
• 47:46
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, health, like- Health, physical.
• 47:49
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 47:50
  Curry Badshah: I also am, like, the fact that there are so many more people getting hair plugs or going going to Turkey and getting a hair transplant- and stuff, they're just like,"Yeah, I don't like being bald, and I'm gonna go fix it." And I think that has...
• 48:04
  Curry Badshah: I have another level of respect for that because I'm like, you're taking it seriously.
• 48:08
  Curry Badshah: You're like,"Hey, my looks make me uncomfortable, and I'm gonna do something about it because I feel an importance to my hair." And it's like women dye their hair, cut their hair, bangs, no bangs, long, extensions, and all this other stuff so that we feel pretty and, whether it makes us feel feminine or empowered or badass or whatever.
• 48:28
  Curry Badshah: So I'm like when I actually see see or know about a man that went and got a hair transplant, I'm like, good for you.
• 48:32
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 48:33
  Curry Badshah: You were like,"It's important to me and I wanna look good, not just for me but also to present my best self," go off.
• 48:40
  Curry Badshah: I like that.
• 48:41
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Curry Badshah: I, yeah, I really like that he brought up the, the health aspect and taking care of yourself.
• 48:47
  Curry Badshah: 'Cause I think both physically and mentally those things go hand-in-hand.
• 48:51
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 48:51
  Curry Badshah: Having good health, especially in the South Asian community- you wanna talk about diabetes and- This is an upcoming episode, actually diet if you're vegetarian, it's where are you getting your protein?
• 49:02
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 49:02
  Curry Badshah: I see also a lot more, like, South Asian influencers, like fitness influencers- Yeah, me too that are really preaching this is why, Indians have like- The belly the belly and how you can combat that- Yeah and what you can put in your body and how you can get a physique that other, demographics can have.
• 49:22
  Curry Badshah: I think it's really insightful- Yeah and I think it's good to see because, at least in our generation- Like, I think we're all trying different diets and different things, but that knowledge is not there in, I think, the same way that- Yeah the younger generation's more willing to try and start earlier, yeah.
• 49:37
  Curry Badshah: I think that's really important.
• 49:39
  Curry Badshah: It helps not only us, like at later stages of life, but the future generations as well.
• 49:45
  Curry Badshah: So I think that's a really great point that I feel like I've also been seeing, and it's in- it's insightful.
• 49:50
  Curry Badshah: I mean- Yeah it's informative and it's knowledge that will persist through generations and I think health is, yeah, health is super important because without that, everything just doesn't work the way that it should.
• 50:00
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 50:00
  Curry Badshah: Especially the mental health aspect, go to therapy, to have a therapist.
• 50:03
  Curry Badshah: There's so many easier ways to at least get ahold of a therapist.
• 50:08
  Curry Badshah: I found my therapist on BetterHelp and then I followed her wherever she went.
• 50:14
  Curry Badshah: And just because like I was like, I already put in the work with this one therapist and I like her, and so I followed her wherever she went.
• 50:20
  Curry Badshah: And so I am...
• 50:23
  Curry Badshah: I'm glad I did that.
• 50:23
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 50:24
  Curry Badshah: And I know you've done like more research extensively to- Yeah, but even- find your therapist e- even aside like therapy is, like a privilege to be able to have in your life and leverage.
• 50:33
  Curry Badshah: But there's other ways, too you know- Pick a hobby that feels meditative.
• 50:38
  Curry Badshah: That's something that you can really zone into and commit to.
• 50:41
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 50:42
  Curry Badshah: Journaling is a really great way to note down things that are happening, and be able to reflect on it.
• 50:49
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 50:49
  Curry Badshah: When you're having a bad day, but you've got a journal entry talking about a great weekend that you had, it's like, all right, you understand that things aren't always going to be bad, and it's just like a passing cloud.
• 51:00
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 51:00
  Curry Badshah: So I think that there's a lot of effective ways to we talked about the physical health side, but also on the mental health side- Yeah to really practice and- and make that habitual- Yeah because, it really helps.
• 51:09
  Curry Badshah: When you compound the days- Yeah it makes a big difference.
• 51:11
  Curry Badshah: A couple of years ago what I did was any time something really great happened, or even if it was just something mundane for the day, I wrote it on a slip of paper and I put it in a vase.
• 51:22
  Curry Badshah: Like a, like an empty vase.
• 51:23
  Curry Badshah: Just like some sort of container.
• 51:24
  Curry Badshah: It started off with, I think it started off with a vase, and I just was throwing in a basket or whatever.
• 51:29
  Curry Badshah: But then at the end of the year, I collected all of them and opened them up, and I was like, this happened, whether it was like I saw my friend or you came to visit or and we did some...
• 51:39
  Curry Badshah: it was just nice to look back and be like, oh, these were the high moments of...
• 51:43
  Curry Badshah: That it wasn't...
• 51:44
  Curry Badshah: That maybe not were, like, super, super significant that I'm like,"Oh, I remem-" it was like,"Oh, that was...
• 51:49
  Curry Badshah: Oh, yeah." Yeah.
• 51:50
  Curry Badshah: "I forgot that happened.
• 51:51
  Curry Badshah: That was really nice." And now I actually have a daily reminder on my phone to just think about something great about today.
• 52:00
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 52:00
  Curry Badshah: And it is...
• 52:01
  Curry Badshah: And I will literally be watching TV, see my phone go off, look at it, and I'll be like I liked this thing." And it's now just become a...
• 52:09
  Curry Badshah: It's not that I have to sit and sit on it and really give it that much time.
• 52:12
  Curry Badshah: It's just simply what's the first thing that comes to mind of what was good about today?
• 52:17
  Curry Badshah: And I'm like, there you go.
• 52:18
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 52:18
  Curry Badshah: It's, it was this.
• 52:19
  Curry Badshah: It's you came over.
• 52:20
  Curry Badshah: It's the cat did something funny.
• 52:21
  Curry Badshah: It's I made a great sale or whatever.
• 52:25
  Curry Badshah: And so that's all tied into that mental health.
• 52:27
  Curry Badshah: And yeah, the next generation is definitely more about that.
• 52:32
  Curry Badshah: I would say maybe the one s- slight flaw is that maybe we take it a little too, they take it a little too far sometimes.
• 52:39
  Curry Badshah: Where everything is like,"I'm just trying to protect my peace," and, or"I don't wanna have conflict.
• 52:43
  Curry Badshah: I've just seen this," now that I'm thinking about it.
• 52:46
  Curry Badshah: Is that someone being like,"Oh, no, I don't want conflict," and I'm like,"Conflict is also a part of life, and you have to be able to learn to deal with it." And so the protecting my peace, don't want conflict kind of aspect of things is it's a little, it's a little too much.
• 52:59
  Curry Badshah: You can't avoid it forever because then that's gonna be problematic in and of itself.
• 53:03
  Curry Badshah: But it's learning- How to address conflict and also maybe not everything needs to be taken so deeply.
• 53:12
  Curry Badshah: Not everything has to affect everything.
• 53:14
  Curry Badshah: But things like that, the, that, that come to mind about the good and the bad side of that.
• 53:21
  Curry Badshah: But yeah, all in all, that was a good response.
• 53:25
  Curry Badshah: I liked that I like, or there's that you're like,"I don't see any problems." And of course, we won't know, right?
• 53:31
  Curry Badshah: We won't really know.
• 53:33
  Curry Badshah: It's the same way I think with parenting, not that I'm a parent.
• 53:36
  Curry Badshah: But what I've seen and read is that also every generation is gonna have some parenting flaw.
• 53:42
  Curry Badshah: Every every generation of kids is gonna be like I didn't like that my parents..." Yeah.
• 53:47
  Curry Badshah: And there's gonna be something no matter how many...
• 53:50
  Curry Badshah: No matter what parents do in the next generation saying"Oh, I'm gonna be different with my kids," there's always gonna be something.
• 53:57
  Curry Badshah: So I think the same thing will go for that.
• 54:00
  Curry Badshah: So we talked about pretty much all of that most common mistakes.
• 54:03
  Curry Badshah: Stop chasing, right?
• 54:04
  Curry Badshah: That was talked about as like also a trope of don't chase and just be...
• 54:10
  Curry Badshah: I guess don't chase and think that it's charming.
• 54:14
  Curry Badshah: Just try to be genuine.
• 54:17
  Curry Badshah: And then also we talked about like appearances, and I think that's a very important thing too of if you're a guy that's out there complaining that nobody's reaching out to you or nobody's sending you DMs or anything like that, look within first.
• 54:30
  Curry Badshah: Look in the mirror.
• 54:31
  Curry Badshah: Talk to a woman in your life.
• 54:33
  Curry Badshah: Also- That is not your mom.
• 54:34
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, also- Talk to a sister, a cousin your boy's girlfriend.
• 54:37
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 54:38
  Curry Badshah: What would you fix?
• 54:38
  Curry Badshah: And work on it.
• 54:40
  Curry Badshah: I think to piggyback off of that, like I, you know- I don't know if I would label it as a mistake, but, I think one thing that, that pays dividends is taking time to build the relationship you have with yourself.
• 54:53
  Curry Badshah: To be- the be- the better you understand yourself, I think the better you understand what you need and what respect looks like to you.
• 55:02
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 55:02
  Curry Badshah: But then also how you respect other people, right?
• 55:04
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 55:04
  Curry Badshah: When you really work on that relationship with yourself, you understand, oh, I actually, like...
• 55:10
  Curry Badshah: There's actually a handful of things that I like and a certain amount of effort that's required to make me feel happy- Yeah and make myself feel fulfilled.
• 55:19
  Curry Badshah: If you don't understand that about yourself, you can't expect to have another person come into your life and then understand that.
• 55:26
  Curry Badshah: It does...
• 55:27
  Curry Badshah: I don't know.
• 55:28
  Curry Badshah: At least in my opinion, it does come off as an attractive quality when as a man, I know what I need- coming into this relationship.
• 55:35
  Curry Badshah: I'm an active participant.
• 55:36
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 55:37
  Curry Badshah: I can come in and say,"I've experienced these things." Maybe I've been in other relationships, maybe I haven't, but I've looked within and I understand myself as a person and the things that I need, and it makes that whole process a lot easier.
• 55:50
  Curry Badshah: I, I don't know if a lot of people necessarily commit to that.
• 55:53
  Curry Badshah: I know there's some people that they're very proud of the fact that they're single and they're in a relationship with themselves, and they prioritize- Yeah their health or their career or their passions.
• 56:05
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:05
  Curry Badshah: And, they've gotten a chance to travel and see the world, and it's like, okay when you are ready to be in that relationship, you've got an entire life story that you can tell somebody.
• 56:13
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:14
  Curry Badshah: Full of excitement and full of experiences and lessons learned and failures and happy and sad moments.
• 56:20
  Curry Badshah: These are things that I think make you human.
• 56:24
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:24
  Curry Badshah: And when you've had a chance to do that for yourself, it becomes a lot easier to have that kind of conversation with another person.
• 56:30
  Curry Badshah: You can feel that good energy coming from that person when they feel comfortable with who they are- Yeah in themselves, so- Yeah i, I wouldn't say it's a mistake, but I think it's something that- Can be worked on.
• 56:41
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:41
  Curry Badshah: I think people should do that more often.
• 56:43
  Curry Badshah: An active active effort.
• 56:44
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:45
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:45
  Curry Badshah: Okay, cool.
• 56:46
  Curry Badshah: Jaythan, this has been fun.
• 56:49
  Curry Badshah: Thank you for being here again.
• 56:50
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:50
  Curry Badshah: This was fun.
• 56:51
  Curry Badshah: Yeah.
• 56:52
  Curry Badshah: This was a good episode.
• 56:54
  Curry Badshah: I hope that if you know a guy, your brother, a cousin, a good friend that is maybe struggling, doesn't have all the answers, or I don't know, whatever, just could use some insights, I don't know, hopefully this was helpful.
• 57:10
  Curry Badshah: And yeah, thanks bro.
• 57:12
  Curry Badshah: Yeah, of course.
• 57:12
  Curry Badshah: And thank you Utkarsh for also being a bro and contributing.
• 57:17
  Curry Badshah: Check out Utkarsh Yaps.
• 57:19
  Curry Badshah: It's his podcast on the Single Desi Network, and keep listening to Something to Say,'cause you know I always got something to say.
• 57:26
  Curry Badshah: Thanks y'all.