Latest / Talking About Birds: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Bootstrap River

Transcript

Bootstrap River · Talking About Birds: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 222 === Nate: [00:00:00] Hello everybody, and welcome back to Talking About Birds, the only Cardinal podcast that, like Abner Uribe, is about .2 inches away from really embarrassing themselves. My name is Nate Heininger, and I am joined by my co-host, Ben Somorka ben: Hey, Nate Nate: If you have an idea for the opening bit, text or leave us a voicemail at 848-48-BIRDS. And thank you you are, wherever you are, for submitting that via text message. That, of course, a reference to, uh, night's game where Abner Uribe, uh, while up six to nothing, stri- th- uh, strikes out Alec Burleson and then proceeds to do a very, uh, aggressive, what I know as a Degeneration X style, uh, suck it into, you know, the cross in the arms and bam, bam, bam, over the crotch. [00:01:00] meanwhile, not recognizing that, uh, Alec Burleson has actually challenged the call, and there's a brief moment where, Cardinal fans around the world all hoped for maybe one of the funniest ABS situations yet. Um, unfortunately, about a, you know, a 10th or two-tenths of an inch, it was indeed a strikeout and, and everyone walked off the field sad. but, uh, yeah, I don't know, Hambone. I, I have mixed feelings on this because on the one hand, how dare, how dare him? You know. ben: Yeah, Nate: how ben: sure. Nate: dare him? ben: First off, how dare you? Nate: yeah. ben: Yeah Nate: But, uh, second, second hand, I don't know. I kinda love turning towards the entire other team and dropping something like that in such a, such a, um, mean, it's two on, two outs, but they're up by six. You know, it's, it wasn't like they just, uh, clinched the [00:02:00] NL Central or something. ben: No Nate: I kinda love it. I kinda love it. What, what was your take on ben: The, the lack of situational awareness was, was great. Um, and I'm pretty much, I'm pro it. Um, I, I thought it was pretty funny. What I really enjoyed is that just he looks like a total maniac doing his suck it. And, and like he's also, like, not the closer for the team, and, like, it was not a high leverage situation. And also, like, he barely did it, and, like, it almost got, you know. Uh, the human eye could not tell if he actually struck him out or not, so he had to go to, to replay. Um, but my favorite part of it was, uh, Alec Burleson's face just kinda like, obviously unbothered by the suck it. And he was just like, "Oh, okay. Well, I-- it didn't go my way." He just ki- like, there was no anger coming from the Cardinals. I think Ali Marmol took it a little bit, um, you know, differently. But I kind of like the Cardinals, uh, kinda letting it just roll off their back [00:03:00] and, and then, like, Abner Uribe getting in trouble by his manager was really funny. Like, it just... I, I enjoyed it all. And I'm gonna relate this to, um, to Top Chef, which I'm sure nobody wants me to do. But Ma-Mary and I watched the most recent episode of Top Chef last night, and, uh, this guy gets kicked off, um, for, uh, reasons that don't matter. And most people, they, they walk up to the judges, they say, "Thank you so much. This has been a great experience. I'm so happy about the friends I made," and blah, blah, blah. And this guy is just sitting there argue yelling at the judges about how they don't understand what he was trying to do and why he's right, Nate: That's ben: he's c- Nate: handle that. ben: Well, it's, it's, it's probably not. But from a viewer standpoint, just like Abner Uribe, it is, it is funny. And it is, like, it, it, it is more exciting than somebody bowing out gracefully or walking off the mound as if they'd done it a thousand times before. Acting like a total unhinged lunatic [00:04:00] on national television is good. Nate: s- Uh, the fact that he did it multiple times too. ben: Yeah. Nate: bam, bam. ben: Yeah Nate: so funny, and he's like, "Oh, I, you know, I, everyone knows me. I'm an emotional guy, and, you know, it got, got the better of myself." And, and I just like, uh, it, it went on long enough, and I know ultimately it was only a couple seconds, but long enough for him to be really making that choice too to ben: Well, I just, I think it's funny, like, you know, if I, i- i- if something really goes my way or if I do something on the... Only thing I can relate it to is skiing or something like that. I, I might, I might do a little fist pump or if I, if I hit a good shot on the golf course, I might do a little fist pump or something. I am never going to the D-Generation X, "Suck it." Like, it's just not my... It's not an i- instinctual celebration for me. So I, I... And then that obviously, it just, you know, goes to show you that the, the, the kind of mentality that I'm bringing to the ski hill or the golf [00:05:00] course is, um, not even close to what Abner is. I- it, th- there, we are different levels. Nate: Well, it's funny too though because he does what I believe is a, a more typical thing. First is he does the like, you know, he like points up to the sky like, "That was for the big guy and this is for you guys." ben: First off, Jesus is my savior. Suck it, suck it, suck it. Nate: Fuck you. Suck it. Fucking suck it you guy. ben: Yeah, it's, you know, pe- people are... Nate: is, ben: Yeah Nate: is uh, is keeping an eye on this one. ben: Yeah, people are complex, you know? It's, it's, it's hard out there. Nate: it's the duality of man. On the one side you've got, you know, thank you, thank you to our all-holy provider. On the ben: Yeah. Nate: side, uh, you can suck it. ben: Yeah. I, I, I will say though, I, I think, um, who cares? It, it's fine Nate: that's, that's awesome. I, I think it is funny that his own team is the one who's reacted, uh, the, the, the biggest, which [00:06:00] I guess makes sense. He kinda liked that. But, uh, yeah, very, very funny. Um, on the other side of this, do you think we, we have been, uh, you know, particularly close to embarrassing ourselves in that same sorta way? Or is this entire exercise just sort of a, a, a exercise in, in embarrassment? ben: Yeah, I, I think that, um, the, the, you know, the sands of time a- and the, the repetitive nature is... I- if you're still feeling that, then, um, I guess you s- you started with more than I ever had. It, it, like, uh, you know what I mean? Like, um, Nate: Ozymandias, ben: past that. Nate: works. Yeah. ben: Yeah Nate: Um, well, we have, uh, more pressing matters to talk about. Um, and maybe you'll, we'll get an opportunity to, uh, display this same sort of energy this weekend. 'cause this weekend be traveling here into St. Louis. I actually don't even know any of your details. Um, ben: I, I, before we move on, I do, I do [00:07:00] think the thing that Abner Uribe has really, um, uh, what, what he probably did not think about in the moment is that if the Cardinals, they have a nice little game today or if they hit a home run off of him, man, he's getting the suck it back so hard. Like, Nate: got to. ben: he's really set himself up for that. Nate: I know ben: you know. But, uh, yeah. Anyways Nate: Yeah. So you're coming into St. Louis again, ben: That's right. I love it. Nate: Saturday ben: Oh Nate: we, we will be at the, blogger and, and podcaster day, ben: That's right Nate: uh, where we will get, uh, we get wined and dined by the St. Louis Cardinals as we, uh, get to go into a, a party suite and watch the Cubs-Cardinal game, which should be fun. We'll talk about the, the Cubs here in ben: Yeah, they, Nate: bit. ben: they are tripping over themselves to, to come to our feet and, and worship. It's pathetic, honestly, the way that they behave Nate: Y- yeah. Um, and, uh, it'll be our first chance to, [00:08:00] um, potentially speak to Chaim Bloom. You know, this is something that Mozeliak had done for years. We talked about this a ben: Right Nate: ago, um, you know, that whole experience. But is there anything you, uh, uh... Have you, have you thought about this at all? Is there anything you're, you're thinking about asking Chaim Bloom? ben: I, I think, you know, I wanted to ask Moz Alak this question last year, and I, I think I, I complained about how we all went soft on him, which, which is fine. But I think really, uh, uh, I, I'm curious to hear his opinion about, um, extensions, how you value those, how you broach those conversations. Like, everyone always says it takes two to tango. That's, that's mostly true, but if you throw X number of dollars at somebody, eventually they just say yes. And, and that's like, I, I-- the Cardinals have the leverage. They have a bunch of options, and I think it'll be interesting to understand how he's thinking about it, if he is willing to give us any information. Like, I really-- I, I don't wanna, I'm not gonna, I'm not curious about, like, what is your dollar value on Jordan [00:09:00] Walker and, and scooping up three of his free agent years, but trying to understand his methodology about valuing those players, how he values free agent years, and if now is the right time, uh, for our window, for the Cardinals' window, to broach those conversations. Because I think I've, we've made it pretty clear on this podcast, like, get a one or two or three of these guys we need to, to lock up, um, because they're clearly good young players. And if that's Walker or Ivan or Mason Wynn or Pedro Pages or whatever your flavor is, you know, let's start having Nate: Like, there's bre- we start getting like, "Oh, breaking news, Cardinals have called a conference. Oh, th- it's about an extension." And we find out that they've extended Pedro Pages on like a ben: Yeah Nate: nine-year, $25 million deal ben: Um, I don't think that that will happen, but I do think the Cardinals are in a [00:10:00] great place. Uh, they clearly have the cash. Um, they, I would think, have the motivation to throw some of that f- uh, uh, cash somewhere Nate: Yeah, there was an article a little while ago where, know, that sort of topic had been broached, and I, and I who this is helpful. I forget who said it and where and, and what, but basically, like, when referencing J.J. Wetherholt specifically, the it takes two to tango, uh, element was, was mentioned, which sim- seemed to imply J.J. is not interested in that yet, which I think is ben: No, no, no, no. Nate: I ben: No. That means the dollar amount has not reached the part where he has said yes. Nate: Where he has said ben: He is valuing himself appropriately, I'm sure is what's ha- That, that's why I hate that it takes two to tango because of course the guy has to say yes, but there are numbers where they have to say yes. Um, you know, it's not like you're, you're holding them hostage, you're offering them millions and [00:11:00] millions of dollars. But there is a u- there is a number that you could throw at J.J. Wetherholt right now that would get it done, I guarantee that. That number might be higher than Heim Bloom is comfortable with, which is fair. Um, but if you're trying to get these deep, deep, deep discounts, I think that that time might not ex- I, I don't think we're gonna see very many Ronald Acuña or Ozzie Albies type deals. You know, even McGonigal and some of these really, or, or Connor Griffin are getting well over $100 million, um, and it's starting when they're even younger. So, um, I'd, I, I kinda reject that whole notion. Um, of course J.J. has to say yes, but there's a dollar amount Nate: Right. Everyone has a price. Like us, we have a buyout price. It's listed clearly on our patreon.com. It's ben: Just, yeah. Nate: million. That's all we ben: Yep, one month, one time Nate: One month, one time, someone pay us [00:12:00] $1.5 million and we'll cancel the show. ben: Yeah. We are so much cheaper than J.J. Wetherholt Nate: Yeah. Yeah, if you're looking around, you're some sort of angel investor, and you're like, "I wanna put my money towards either supporting a, the, the career of a, of a Major League Baseball player or shutting down some sort of small, independent, um, you know, stupid podcast," well, I th- ben: These Nate: see no, no better fit than us ben: rich folks love shutting down and turning off independent media. You have a is- Nate: That's a ben: boom, it's right there. We'll, we'll do it willingly Nate: Yeah, we won't even fight it. ben: No Nate: That's all we're asking for is just for one guy ben: Unless you want us to fight it Nate: Yeah, maybe that's their kink. ben: Yeah, we'll, we'll meet you where you need to be met, you sick fuck Nate: Uh, I don't, calling him a sick fuck made me, uh, think of, um, you, you probably have- wouldn't have seen this, [00:13:00] but, um, some total sicko in our, in our YouTube comments referred to hot dogs as slick sticks. What do you think about that? ben: That is filthy. Nate: I know. I, I, it, I, it hasn't gotten out of my brain. Slick Sticks ben: See, this, this is why I don't read the comments, Nate. Stay away from that stuff Nate: It's the type of people who are, uh, engaging with our show, though, ben: Slick stick. Nate: Which, of course, remember it's all the smartest people in the universe are ben: Right, Nate: Talking About Birds. They're all ben: normal people Nate: there in their Baron Harkonnen pods floating around, uh, to Talking About Birds, but, ben: Wow. Nate: guys, though, not bad guys. ben: Right, right, right, right, right. Nate: Yeah. ben: good Harkonnens. Nate: The good Harkonnens. ben: Yeah Nate: Yeah. Uh, all right, Hambone, should ben: Wow Nate: should we talk about the current state of play with the St. Louis Cardinals? ben: Bro, we got a packed show today, Natey Nate: do have a... There's a [00:14:00] lot going on. Um, you know, for weeks now, each episode has started with, uh, "Boy, aren't these Cardinals fun? This has been a... We're, we're, we're good. This is great." ben: Yeah Nate: Um, and while that is still to some degree the narrative, it's been a little bit of a, of a bumpy ride this last week, ben: Yeah Nate: we can get into, but, uh, no bumpier, uh, than the Chicago Cubs, which have, uh, lost 10 games straight and are now in the basement of the NL Central. So at least, at least we have that. ben: Right. Yeah, that has been really nice. And the fact that they got, uh, they lost, like, by over 10 runs on, uh, Tuesday night to your Pittsburgh Pirates. Really enjoyed that. Love when NL Central teams are beating up on each other. Nate: Yep ben: but yeah, the, uh, it's hard, you know, especially in what... It's still, I, I don't know how to feel about this season exactly, but, um, it's hard not-- No matter [00:15:00] the situation, no matter where the Cardinals are at in their competitive window or whatever, uh, we know that the Cubs are, uh, calling themselves a competitive team in 2026, and having them be on the recent losing streak. A- and it should also be, like, they have only won, since May 9th, they have only won two games. So this was a, there was a little streak broken up by a couple of wins and then a longer streak. Like, it's been pretty bad for the Cubbies for a while now, and I think that this is, um, something that we should enjoy, first off. I also think, like, you know, you lose all of this pitching depth, uh, this early in the season, and as competitive, weirdly, as the NL Central has been, like, I, I don't know if I'm ready to say this is the death nail for the Cubbies, but this is really... I, I, they have a mountain to climb, especially, like, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Brewers, I believe, have the fewest [00:16:00] runs allowed and most runs scored in MLB. Like, they are not going to be easy to catch Nate: frustratingly good team. These last two games have been so, like, Goddammit, they are just a better team, you know? It's anyone can win any one game, anyone can win a series, you know. Uh, you tr- you try not to put, make sweeping accusations like I did over just two games. You know, the, the third game in the series here is about to start. But you just look at this lineup and, and, and what Mizerowski and Harrison did to the Cardinals, you're just like, man, the Cardinals just don't have that. There's just ben: Well, Nate: close to that, uh, ben: to, Nate: Cardinals ben: clear, I don't think any team in baseball has what Jacob Mierkowski has. Like Nate: be right now. Like, I, I saw a ranking the other day. It is fantasy baseball related, but with pitching it's pretty much one and the same. The best pitchers in baseball are the best pitchers for fantasy, and they now have him ranked the second-best pitcher in baseball. ben: But to [00:17:00] Skeens? Nate: yep, Skeens and then him. And I think in some ways that's almost just legacy too, 'cause like Skeens has been great, but has had his hiccups this year too, and Mizerowski just seems to be getting better and better. ben: I will tell you though, and I, I am not wishing for this even though he's on a, on the dreaded, um, uh, Milwaukee Brewers. I don't know if the human body's allowed to throw that hard that often. I j- I feel like we are... I, I think the, The Miz, he's incredible. It's, it's super fun to watch. A starting pitcher sitting 103 Nate: Yeah. ben: just unbelievable. Nate: It's ben: But, uh, Nate: Hardest throwing starter of all time. ben: I really feel like it is... I just don't know if you can do that. I, I guess we're gonna find out, but I think he's gonna explode Nate: up in the, his arm's gonna end up in William Contreras' glove here at some point. Um, but, you know, flip side to all of this, like, as you mentioned, uh, the NL Central is competitive. Despite all of that, the, the Cubs are actually still three games over [00:18:00] .500 ben: Yeah. Nate: and only one game out of a wild card spot, and ben: Uh-huh. Nate: May 27th, you know? Um, so, like, the, what hap- basically what happened is this incredible losing streak dropped them out of, uh, being the, the front runner in the NL Central, but has kept them right basically where the Cardinals are, which is in the upper half of the league competing for a w- a, a playoff spot. Obviously trending, they're trending way, way, way down, but, but, you know, there's still a lot of baseball left and they're still, they're still above .500. They're still better than most of the other teams in the NL, um, as far as just record goes. I think I'll pull it up real quick, have a better, uh, run differential than the... Yes, also have a better run differ- differential still than the Cardinals, um, by, like, 17 runs, so. You know, place to be. Um, guess let's, [00:19:00] uh, let's get into some of the numbers, though. Um, I guess w- let's start with Brian Torres, right? You, you called him out, uh, maybe two weeks ago on an episode, saying, "Keep an eye out for this guy." Um, and then, uh, the Cardinals called him up and he had quite a debut, ben: My God Nate: uh, getting a hit and a home run in his first game, uh, which was a ton of fun. He just seems like, uh, I mean, you gotta be. If you spend 11 years in the minors, it's like you either come out this, like, grizzled veteran or you're like the happy warrior sorta thing, and seems to be the latter for him, 'cause he seems to be having a, a great time. and I mean, why wouldn't you be? 11 years in the minors and having some success. Uh, do you wanna run through the incredibly small sample size, but the numbers we're seeing so far? ben: Yeah, he's only got four games played so far, but he's already got five hits, two walks against two strikeouts. And I think what we're seeing is just like, uh, there's, there's not a ton of power in the profile, and there, there [00:20:00] basically never has been. Um, but he has always walked. He has always kept his strikeouts in check. Um, and I think, I'm sure the Cardinals, you know, over the, over 2025 and 2026, he was sitting around a .450, .440 on base percentage. I'm sure they're thinking, "This can't translate to the big leagues. He's got a high bat-bip," yada, yada, yada. But I think we're seeing it. Like, obviously the approach is legit. He can hit the, spread the ball to all fields. He kind of does that, like, that light line drive that's not a hard hit ball that goes right over the infield, like the middle infield in particular, and dinks in for a single or a double. Um, I don't know how long he can do it. He seems to be a competent outfielder. He has enough speed. He's a little guy. I've really noticed. He's, he's a little teeny-tiny guy. Nate: he's a little guy ben: but I think the approach is legit, and I do think, like, you know, w- w- Is Brian Torres the kind of guy that's gonna be a part of the Cardinals for the foreseeable future? I don't know. But we have [00:21:00] not gotten great outfield production from center, um, and really left, uh, for a little while now. And having a guy that can come up, grind out a good at-bat, and get these little dink and dunk hits all over the place, I'm, I'm here for it. He's 28, 5'7", 165. He's, he's a little old and he's a little small, but it's, it's a lot better than it has been out of those two positions right now. I don't think he's gonna play center. I, I, I almost guarantee he won't. But I've been very happy with what I've seen so far. Nate: Yeah. We ben: Like, as advertised. Nate: Yeah. Um, yeah, it makes you think, like, is he maybe the long-term bench bat solution? You know, he can play outside maybe. You know, I, obviously we're all Pozo bozos, but, ben: Oh, God. Yeah, love him Nate: you know, we would, I would personally die for Pozo if needed. Um, ben: You should. Okay Nate: you know, ho- hopefully it doesn't come to that. Uh, but I stand [00:22:00] ready. ben: Of course Nate: Um, but, you know, we both also kind of think there's no reason for him to be on the team. But that doesn't change my eternal commitment. ben: Right Nate: but, uh, know, the, the profile that, uh, Torres brings, at least from a plate approach, uh, as well as a bit more defensive flexibility than, uh, Pozo, more sense as that, um, bench bat to me. Though the, of course, the counterargument to, to that would be a lot of people prefer their bench bat to be able to hit a home ru- you know, like they're not gonna get a lot of good outcomes, but one of them is, uh, is they're gonna crush a dinger and, yeah, I just don't see a ton of that from Bro-- uh, from Torres. But, um, ben: I agree. Nate: is, ben: I agree with that. Um, but I think I-- If I had-- Obviously, you're-- we're talking about a bench bat, so there's gonna be, like, a flaw in the guy's game, right? It's, he's not gonna be a perfect hitter by any means. But I think it's worth pointing out that Joél Pozo has zero walks currently on the season, and [00:23:00] Brian Torres has been in the big leagues for one second and has already eclipsed that, uh, by two. Um, so I think I would take a person who can actually play somewhere defensively, um, and grind out at bat rather than a guy who may or may not pop you a homer, which by the way, he hasn't done this year. Um, you know, to just check in and Pozo's got a 49 WRC+. He has been a bad base runner, a bad offensive player, a bad defender, um, and, Nate: know what you're trying to do here, Hambone. ben: Yeah. Nate: to prove? ben: I just think there might be. And especially, like, they're both 28. Like, if we're gonna go with this post, post, post, post hype, um, not even prospect, but just minor league guy, I, I, I, you know, we're, we're a week into Brian Torres' big league career. Um, but if there has to be a decision made, I mean, that is easy for me. Get rid of Pozo, keep on [00:24:00] to, uh, um, uh, Torres all day Nate: Yeah, can Torres catch? 'Cause it is important to us that we have, ben: Well, with, Nate: catchers as possible. ben: with ABS you don't even need a catch anymore Nate: Wow, okay. ben: So Nate: Ah, k- kids these days. have, they don't wanna work ben: That's, that's exactly what I meant by that. It makes sense when you say that. Nate: they ben: But, Nate: work ben: you, you, you'll, you'll see here very soon once the full ABS goes live, you're not gonna need to catch anymore. You just gotta throw Nate: river? Back in my day it was get a job river. ben: That was pretty good. Did you write that? Nate: Uh, it's, uh, there's a, uh, a waterpark that we go to during the summer that has a lazy river, and I like to say that same thing to, uh, ben: Oh, I, this Nate: that w- ben: extra context really made the joke funnier, idiot. Nate: Well, yes, I did ride it, thank ben: Okay, that's all I needed. I was giving you credit Nate: I feel like I, uh, still [00:25:00] deserved. I was, I'm explaining to you both the inspiration and the execution. ben: Okay Nate: Mm-hmm. I say it was a bootstrap river, is what we called it. How ben: That's pretty good Nate: Yeah. Thank you. Uh, so despite the last week not being ideal from a record standpoint, the offense is still looking okay. What are you, what are you seeing out of them? ben: Well, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's funny in a week that the Cardinals only won, I think it was one game, uh, we still saw-- we just talked about Torres' success at the plate, which was nice. Walker had a great week, Burley had a great week, Ivan had a great week, and even, um, uh, Victor Scott, uh, was running, uh, a little bit of production and, of course, playing great offense. But I, I thought that that was great to see that the, the offense kinda keeps chugging along. You know, the, the pitching and, uh, other parts of the team are maybe not perfect. Um, I did wanna bring up something that is starting to concern me, though. It is... You know, I... We, we can only talk about Walker and [00:26:00] Burley being good so many weeks in a row. But Mason Wynn is starting to concern me a little bit in this season. Obviously, last year he was compromised. I think it's easy to wash our hair of his second half of his, uh, season and, and his lack of production Nate: wash our hair of his production. ben: Have you, you never heard that before? Nate: I think people say wash their hands of this. ben: I think you wash your hair too Nate: I don't know. I'm, uh, I'm, I, you know, I, ben: Did you understand what I meant by it? Nate: No. ben: Oh, Nate: I didn't. ben: okay. Nate: Explain, please ben: Um, but I, I, I wanted to talk about, uh, the fact that he is an 82 WRC+ in 2026. His swing speed is down from last year by a couple miles per hour. Uh, his fast swing percentage last year, meaning the amount of times he puts on his A swing, was about 17% last year. It's at 8% this year. So he's swinging [00:27:00] slower overall and seemingly, uh, less aggressive when he's feeling like putting on his A swing, if that happens. Uh, and he has one of the lowest hard hit rates in MLB. He's 19th overall as far as hard hit rate. Um, we've always talked about Mason Wynn as a guy who was just always continually getting better, especially on the offensive side. He just, in the minors and once he come up to, came up to the big leagues, just seemed to always tack on improvements one way or another. Um, and now we are a season, or half a season and two months of pretty poor offensive plays. Got one homer on the season. Um, you know, just not, not any power, not enough on base. How are you feeling about Mason Wynn? Nate: Yeah, not great, um, him. But, I mean, I think it's interesting that despite all of that, um, he still has an [00:28:00] 82 WRC+. I mean, that ben: Yeah Nate: basement level, um, metrics as far as, um, you know, power output goes, uh, and are truly alarming to his long-term success, uh, offensively. But I do think it's interesting that he, uh, has an 82, which as we highlighted earlier, it could be much, much worse, and he is so ben: Yep. Ozo currently has half that production Nate: Yeah. Um, he, and he is so good offensively, um, or I'm sorry, defensively, that obviously, you know, he doesn't have to crush the ball to be incredibly valuable at the Major League level. But it is disappointing because, uh, the, the projection on him, even for this year alone, if you look at FanGraphs' projections that had him hitting 15 home runs this year, which unless he goes on quite a binge, uh, it seems unlikely he's gonna get to even 15. Uh, and it does start to [00:29:00] shape, um, the overall long-term value of a guy like this. And, and as you're building your roster and you're thinking for the next decade, is that what you want there, you know? If this is really what he's gonna be or even around here, let's say he gets back to a 90, 95 WRC+, which would be a big improvement from where he is right now, um, is that something you want as your long-term shortstop? You know, especially in this day and age when, um, you know, typically the, the best hitters are also shortstops, you know? Now, that is of course a luxury and it's not like the Cardinals have anyone knocking down the door on that. But I don't know, JJ could play short, you know? Um, so I don't wanna be doom and gloom on this because obviously we're huge Mason Wynn fans and, you know, you could say it's 200 plate appearances, he was hurt last year, et cetera. Like, there's still ... And, and despite this bad performance, that's still an 82 WRC+, he's [00:30:00] still a positive player, uh, from a war perspective. But it, it feels like the ceiling is starting to lower a lot on Mason Wynn, and that's just more sad than anything. Um, but I'm not ready to write it off, um, as like he'll never hit a- a- at an above league level average. Um, it just, it's be- feels like it's becoming less and less likely. ben: Yeah, I, I-- it's more like the reduction in bat speed for a player of his age is odd. Why is he swinging less har- or, or why is he swinging hard less often? Um, is that the-- his approach, the account, the counts that he's getting himself in, the situations he, he's getting himself in? Um, like, like where is this coming from? He's walking more this season than he ever has before. He's striking out slightly more. Nate: Yeah ben: Um, so it, it's, it's hard for me to understand, is he still hurt? Is he not fully healthy? Is he [00:31:00] still coming back? Um, like it makes me speculate on all these things of like what is really going on, because you would think a 24-year-old shortstop would be not necessarily peaking, but definitely wouldn't be losing a step at this point in his career. So, um, something to watch. I, I agree with you. I am not out on Mason Wynn by any means. Um, and I me- I started this by mentioning how he finds a way to improve always, or he has historically. So I, I would bet on that before saying that. But it is just-- it's interesting, the numbers are there, and it's-- they're not good. Nate: Yeah. He turned 24 two months ago, um, so he's still a couple years away from what we would consider peak power seasons. Um, but you know, there's a reason why the projections, you know, he hit, what, nine home runs last year, the projections had him to go to 15 this year to be like, okay, he was 23 last year, he hit nine, now he's 24, he'll be he should hit 15 in a full [00:32:00] season, and it's just not happening, you know, only one. Um, so just something to keep an eye on. I think that bat speed one is, is, is a, is a good indicator there, and just hard hit percentage in ben: Yeah Nate: is usually a good underlying metric to see someone's, uh, potential offensive production. ben: To his credit, it's not gotten hot yet outside. Um, you know, maybe, maybe once that St. Louis heat comes on and, and the ball starts flying a little more and he gets going, maybe everything will loosen up and it'll start happening. But, um, yeah, just to, like I said, it's been like four months of this, um, broken across two years. Um, we'll see. Nate: Yeah. Um, should we talk about some of the pitching? ben: Sure. Let's get into it. Um, I kinda wanted to look at some of the pitching trends, um, from April to May and see what's, what's turned around for or, or what's shifted into focus for some players. Um, and I think the [00:33:00] first one we should talk about is something that's fun. Um, JoJo Romero has had a really nice May. We're, we're recording on May 27th, our last episode of May. So, uh, his, uh, stuff plus for his fastball, uh, was 113 in April, which is nothing to sneeze at. We're happy about that. That's an above average fastball. Uh, but in the month of May, it jumped up to a staggering 153. That is one of the better fastballs in the game, um, from that left side. And, you know, the, the stuff plus comes from like movement profiles, velocity, that kind of thing. So, you know, whether it's him settling in or, or what, the, the fact that... I mean, that is a, uh, that just doesn't happen. Somebody just doesn't throw 40 extra points on their fastball stuff plus profile in a month Nate: yeah, not very common. Um, yeah, I think we can see it too. He's been really dominant out on the mound. He's had a, a really good presence, just [00:34:00] he's looked like the high-end reliever that he's been in the past, uh, which has been quite fun. Um, and a part of the reason the Cardinals have outplayed their, uh, run differential has been some of this back into the bullpen execution. Obviously, O'Brien has slipped a little bit, but he was always gonna regress from perfect. ben: Yeah. Nate: not un- unsurprising. But him uh, JoJo have been, you know, huge. Um, so, uh, what this all, what this, of course, just makes me think about is, uh, uh, relief because, uh, the trade deadline will be happening here in, you know, two months, and we were all quite shocked that JoJo Romero was not traded before this season. And like you said, the April wasn't bad, but it certainly didn't look like that dominant reliever that we were used to, and so started to worry that, uh, the Cardinals had, [00:35:00] uh, misplayed this one that his at the deadline would maybe be not as high as it, it could've been. so him crushing right now, I'm just like, "Please, keep it up for two more months." 'Cause I think, you know, we've had different opinions and, and mixed opinions on what you do with guys like O'Brien at the deadline, but w- I think regardless of status for the St. Louis Cardinals in, uh, in July, I, I guess unless they're in first place by, like, six games or something like that, even then I might still say, "No, trade. they need to trade JoJo Romero." So I, I think almost no matter what happens, he's on the block, and the better he ben: I-- Nate: the better the return. ben: A lefty reliever with this kind of stuff, I think you can get a lot for him at the deadline, especially if certain teams are desperate. This is a y- you don't find Jo- Joe Romero's. They're not, they're not in every bullpen. Um, so yeah, I, I think almost no matter what, I [00:36:00] would like the Cardinals to trade him at the deadline, especially assuming he keeps up this kind of performance. Nate: Yeah ben: because you know, like, uh, when teams are trading in, uh, or in and around the deadline, they are looking at recent performance, especially with relief pitchers. If they're seeing these kinds of stats and, and numbers on his fastball and recent performance, they will trip over themselves to, to try to get him Nate: Yeah, 100%. So it's exciting. And just as a Cardinal enjoyer right now and someone who does want them to continue to win games, uh, it is also good to have him doing well. So it, it, it behooves ben: Yeah. Nate: uh, ben: I, I also just like JoJo. I, I'm rooting for JoJo. I like him a lot Nate: Yeah. Same. All right, Hambone. Um, I, know there's some other pitching lines that we wanna talk about, but, uh, you know, let, let's just be honest with the listener. not hide anything, you know? Let's tell them the truth and ben: we should note that they are easy to trick though Nate: Oh, we're always [00:37:00] tricking them, aren't we? ben: Oohs. Nate: We're always getting them. They might... Yes, they're the smartest people in the universe, but that doesn't mean we can't get one over on them. ben: That's right Nate: Uh-huh. Um, so we, right after the last brilliant point that we were making, whatever it was, um, we had to stop down for, uh, most of the day. I had to, uh, step away, to do some family stuff and, and, and whatnot. Uh, during that time, the entirety of the third game in the Brewers series happened. Uh, and we had said earlier in this episode, "Hey, you never know, like, uh, what if Abner Uribe, uh, drops a suck it or maybe Dustin May will drop one on, on him or, or something like that." Doesn't seem like anything like that happened. Instead, we got a incredible performance by, uh, Dustin May and maybe, uh, one of the more disappointing losses of this year. [00:38:00] Um, which, you know, compared with the, the rest of the vibes from this last week, it, it certainly doesn't feel good, um, to get swept by the Brewers. Um, especially when you have your starter carrying a no-hitter into the eighth and then ends up getting the loss. feels bad. ben: to do, really Nate: it is hard to do. Um, so it feels bad. Uh, and so I bet Cardinal fans are feeling pretty down right now after this, uh, this series sweep by the Brewers, and I think that's reasonable. Uh, it's been a rough week. Um, but, you know, it's still, I think, I think while the wound is fresh, I think it's still worth talking about, uh, Dustin May, who was not on our original, uh, outline for today. But if we just talk about the performance today, like, pretty exciting, right? I mean, this was a, a, an incredible start against a, a, um, you know, they're not a power happy [00:39:00] offense and their, their thing is getting hits and getting a lot of hits, and he held them to no hits for most of the game. So, um, you know, the, a lot of, we've talked about a lot of different range of outcome potential for Dustin May this year. From not pitching for the Cardinals this year because of injury, all the way to he returns to, like, the, or he hits the, um, pedigree or, or the performance matches the pedigree and we all of a sudden found a, like, an ace. And he's not quite there yet, but he's closer to that than he is to the other outcome. Like, I've been pretty happy with Dustin May for a while now. Um, what was your, what are your thoughts from today's start? ben: Yeah. Well, I think what you said, the opponent is really interesting, and, um, I was able to watch most of the game today. Um, and something that I just thought was really fun about it was whether it was because of last night, whether it's because of interdivisional match-ups, or whatever the [00:40:00] reason is, Dustin May was fired up today. He was locked in from the first pitch. I think I said when the Birds scored, like, on, out, around the second inning, like, watch this g- like, Dustin May is locked in. This is gonna be a good game. And I also think it's part of a pattern that he's been putting together where he's had a much better May than he has had in April. I think he's looking stronger. We're seeing a little more strikeouts. We're seeing him leaning on those breaking balls that you and I both like quite a bit. A- and it goes back to, again, like, we, I think we said this before the match-up, but the m- uh, Brewers have the second best OBP in baseball. They have the sixth best average. Uh, they score a ton of runs. Um, they are a very difficult team to do this kind of thing against. And irrelevant of the outcome, which is total bullshit that he takes a loss for this, um, but he went seven innings. He faced 25 batters, only ended up giving two hits, one earned run, nine strikeouts, not a walk, um, a- and just, like, a lovely [00:41:00] performance throughout. He was befuddling hitters. He didn't have a ton of swing and miss today, but he also had, like, looking, uh, caught looking strikeouts. And he was just dominating, um, in a way that was really fun. And it is like he, like you're talking about, he's 28 years old. He was one of the best prospects in baseball under one of the best pitching development teams over the last 10 years. And if you wa- he throws 98 mile an hour sinkers like it's nothing. Um, yeah. Nate: May may be, uh, the start of something exciting, ben: Yeah. Nate: Um- ben: it is fun. Today was great, um, up until. Nate: Up ben: And, uh, you know, this is kinda like how the Brewers win ballgames, though. They kind of just death by a thousand cuts you and, um, you know. I, I don't, by the way, I don't disagree. I, I'm happy. His pitch count was down. I, I was fine with how Ollie handled, [00:42:00] handled it. I would've been fine, you Nate: Yeah ben: let him go for it. Um, but it, it's a bummer. It's a bummer Nate: is a bummer. Um, you know, and, and like we talked about with JoJo Romero, though, just a little bit ago, you know, obviously Dustin May being really good is, uh, is silly to say, but it is the best case outcome for the Cardinals, possible that he's really good right now, know? Um, really good into June and really good into July. We said from the very beginning, the very most likely good outcome from the Dustin May signing is that he looks good, and they trade him at the deadline for something, uh, something big ben: I, I think I said the, actually the best outcome is Dustin May finds something, clicks in, likes being a Cardinal, and we have a-- Nate: And ben: I, that's the, that is the most desirable outcome. But I think the most likely outcome is what you're describing Nate: I'm really [00:43:00] curious what their appetite would be for extending Dustin May if this is something that... Like, let's say we're, we're 10 starts from now, and maybe they're not all this dominant, you know, but it's like, "Oh, shit, Dustin May is good. He's a very good starter. Uh, he's 28 years old and he's healthy." What is the appetite for an extension? Um, ben: Yeah, I mean, like, I, I think you, you've said this, and I, I fully, like, I, I... We need to make a T-shirt that, that says this, and I'm gonna misquote you 'cause I can't remember exactly what it is now that I'm saying this. But Nate: on the edge of my seat. ben: pitchers are good when they're good. Like, Nate: Yeah ben: they're good. When they're good right now, they're good, and I totally buy that. I'm not saying that Dustin May is going to be Zach Wheeler, but it took Zach Wheeler till he was 28 or 29 or whatever to figure it out, and then he became one of the best pitchers in baseball. I'm not saying that's what I expect of, of Dustin May. But, you know, if, if they see a guy and they really like what he's doing and he likes being here, um, you know, I, I kinda s- [00:44:00] I, I agree. What is the appetite? Will that happen? I don't know. But, um, it would be a shame to ship out somebody who's... Nate: Yeah. ben: And I mean, he looks so good in the, in the uni- Oh, God. Nate: the, ben: think it would clash, Nate. Nate: it doesn't, it fits right in. Um, yeah, I, know, it, I mean, frankly, the, the pitching depth, the, it's not like, Liam Doyle's not running away with it down at minors. Quinn Matthews isn't running away with it. you know, we're very excited about the future of the pitching staff for the Cardinals based off of all these minor league guys, but does not happen in this year, it seems. ben: No Nate: uh, it might be best if the Card- if the Cardinals hope to compete in '27, like for real compete, uh, he might be one of your more affordable starting pitchers, uh, right now. Um, I don't know. It's interesting. So something to keep an eye on. I, I'm, I'm really curious how they handle it if Dustin May is legit ben: Yeah. [00:45:00] And I would also like to say this one start doesn't make him... I, I'm not fully, fully bought on. But it has been a pattern, Nate: It's been a pattern ben: this is a very tough oppo- opponent, and up until it went sideways, I was having a ton of fun today Nate: Yeah, totally. Um, well let's talk about another pitcher who w- we did sort of a deeper dive on him last week, um, and it continues. Matthew Liberatore. Um, the, the strikeouts are up, the K's are up, the curve ball looks good, Hambone. How you feeling about, uh, Liberatore right now? ben: Yeah, yeah. Again, you know, looking from his April to May, I think that we've seen a huge improvement. His K per 9 jumped from 6 to 11.6, uh, K per 9. His K, uh, to walk, uh, percentage jumped from 7.2 to 20.4 in that same time, and his FIP in, uh, April was 6.39. His FIP in [00:46:00] May is 2.74. Uh, we talked about how maybe things are clustering, maybe there's some bad look, but bad, uh, uh, bad luck. But under the hood, this is legitimate ap- improvement, and this has been against Milwaukee and Pittsburgh and Ath and the San Diego Padres and the Dodgers. All of those I, I would say are, are top half of MLB Nate: Yeah ben: offenses. None of these were, you know, you, you came to or, or the Rockies came to town and you, you, you, you ate your lunch or their lunch, I guess, really. You should eat your lunch every day. I would... I guess unless you're trying to... Nate: a ben: But y- Nate: conversation here. Everyone, you should eat your lunch every day. What are you doing? ben: If you can Nate: you're, I know you're busy, ben: Some people can't Nate: yeah, Some people can't Let's be, ben: Yeah. It's hard Nate: uh, in- inclusive here. But if you can, you should eat your lunch every day ben: Yeah. I'm just saying life comes at you fast is really what I'm trying to [00:47:00] say. Nate: Yeah. ben: Yeah. Nate: Um, Yeah. I, it's the same story we kinda talked about last week. You know, it the, is it the inning? Is it the big liberatory inning where he, he collapses, um, and all his good work g- comes, comes apart in one inning? Is it just bad luck in one inning? I don't know. but typically I'll look, to me, it's like look at the underlying numbers. What is, what is the performance, um, what is the process indicating? And everything is screaming that he is, he's, he's elevating right now. Uh, ben: Yeah Nate: elevating as a pitcher. Um, I mean, that FIP 2.74, that K per nine or KBB, all of that, that's ben: I mean, Nate: very, very good ben: those numbers have me saying, like, breakout incoming. Nate: Yeah ben: stock in Matthew Liberatore. He's doing things that not a lot of other players in MLB are doing. Um, like that-- Those are very gaudy, [00:48:00] impressive strikeout and, uh, FIP numbers. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm very into what, what, what's happening right there, and I think we just gotta let our s- our, our events sequence in a way that makes sense, and everything's gonna look really nice for Libby Nate: Yeah. I'm getting excited about him. Um, we need the, the pr- process like this, the results will follow. So, um, you wanted to talk about, uh, Graceffo a little bit, who we've been seeing more and more of lately as, uh, as some starters have faltered a little bit. Um, what, what are you seeing from Graceffo? ben: Yeah. Um, it hasn't been amazing what we've seen in the month of May. Uh, s- and again, this is really, I'm just trying to find the biggest risers and fallers from April to May. Gordon Graceffo was only striking out about five per nine in April. He... That has dropped to 2.7 K's per nine, and his, uh, walks per nine has gone from [00:49:00] 3.3 to 4.50. Everything going in the wrong direction. He somehow has an ERA of 2.7 in the month of May, which is great, uh, but his expected ERA, f- uh, FIP, and his expected FIP are all five and a half or higher than that. Um, I don't know when... He's only got three strikeouts in this month for a guy. Like, it's Nate: Yeah it's sort of the inverse here of Liberatore where we're like, all right, you know, he's coming out of the bullpen, it's small sample size. You know, every single at bat, the most likely thing is they get out, right? So you can kind of run That for a little while out of the bullpen. Um, but inverse here. With process like this, results, uh, will also follow. ben: wave is about to crash, uh, Nathan, and, and I feel like it's not gonna be good. Um-[00:50:00] Nate: Yeah. Well, it's, it could go either way, right? Just like it could go with Liberto. It's ben: Yeah Nate: could, Liberto could keep these mechanics, lock in these, whatever he's done. What, maybe we should look more into some of the pitch metrics here, uh, coming up if he does this a couple more times and see what actually is different about his pitches from, from this, this game to a month ago. but if he keeps locked it in, he keeps it locked in, the process sticks, and the results start to follow, okay, we're great. Or if he starts like, "Man, the results aren't coming, I need to start making changes," starts tinkering, and the whole thing could co- could collapse. with Graceffo. He could, you know, make adjustments positively. I'm sure w- there's no way We are the only ones who know ben: We are not breaking this news to the Cardinals. Yeah, I, Nate: I'm ben: I, I, yeah Nate: I'm sure they're looking, Heim and, and the Bloomingoons and Ollie and all of them are like, ben: Yeah. Nate: you know, they're seeing it on the field. Only so far you can go with basically a 0 K per 9 ben: I feel confident [00:51:00] that this version of the Cardinals is proactive, even though they see that 2.7 ERA. They are smart enough and care enough to act on that before shit goes wrong Nate: Yeah. Yep. Um, all right. So one more pitcher, and then we're gonna talk about some, uh, m- updates and some transactions and some minor stuff. Polonte, who we have talked a lot about on this show. ben: Yeah Nate: He's, he's really filled the Miles Michaelis role, if you will, uh, o- on the podcast. which is not typically a spot you wanna be. ben: But we have something nice to say about him Nate: what I was, I was gonna say. You know, we, we ultimately, we ended up, we were very mean to Michaelis, but we also understood was quite valuable at times. Um, and Polonte has been pretty good recently. So wh- what do you wanna, what do you want, how do you wanna display that? ben: I, I think [00:52:00] what really, the, the big thing that we're seeing is that he has locked in his location. And I, we talked about the location, location plus metric with Michael McGreevy a couple of weeks ago. He's like freakishly good at it. Um, and in the month of May, that's something that Andre Pallante has really improved upon. He went from a 95 to a 1-- uh, sorry, a 95 in April to a 112 in the month of May. And actually looking at the start that he just had against Cincinnati, posted a 122, which is like an elite level location plus score, meaning that he is putting pitches where they should be in the, uh, uh, in situations that count. Uh, he's also lowered his walk rate from three-- uh, sorry, his, uh, base on balls per nine from 3.76 to 2.28, almost full, which is kind of the, the big scary thing about him. It's like if you're not going to strike guys [00:53:00] out and you're gonna get ground balls, you really, really, really can't give up extra bases. You cannot walk people on top of that. Now, you know, when you look under the hood, he's still doing some things that don't, uh, like that FIB don't really agree with and maybe Andre Pallante is a bit of just a FIB beater. Uh, those guys exist. How long can he carry this? I don't know. Um, but the fact of the matter is that he is pitching better right now than he has been. Uh, he's made an improvement and maybe he can keep this going. I feel less sure about this than all of the other guys we just talked about, um, including Dustin May Nate: Um, yeah, I think I agree. We've spent a lot of time talking about how he basically has not been an effective starter for over 200 innings straight now. Um, so it is hard to imagine that, you know, he's, he's turned the corner. but to [00:54:00] be fair to him, he was effective, uh, at earlier in his career, uh, before basically the last season and a half. Um, and maybe he's figured it out, you know? He has always been a guy where we're like, "How can you spin it like this? How can you have so many pitches and not get people out?" You know? And it... A lot of it was just command, control, you know, walking too many guys. Um, some of it in the last year, you know, to be fair, is lesser defense. You know, the defense wasn't the greatest last year, and he's a ground ball guy, and the defense is much better this year. So, um, you could see it just lowering walk rate, plus the elite defense year, this year is maybe enough to make him valuable. Um, FIP, I believe, typically undervalues ground ball guys. which makes sense. It's, it's an ben: It doesn't like balls in play, period. Nate: Yeah ben: Yeah Nate: It's a, it's a volatile way to go about it. Um, [00:55:00] you know. Uh, so I... Obviously, we're Cardinal fans. We hope that this is the, the start of a, of a turnaround and Palante will become more of a mid-three ERA guy who can give you some length and all that. Like, that would be great. That... We could certainly need it. Um, and it's, I, guess it's just nice to see him trending in a good direction after quite a while of it being the opposite. ben: I agree. And we'll continue to talk about Andre Pallante as this show goes on, yeah Nate: I, yeah I'm sure, I'm sure That we will. Let's, uh, let's run through some transactions and some news real quick, uh, before we get to the other part of the show. So Lars is, uh, Lars is large and in charge there in triple A. ben: good Nate: thank you. Uh, he's got seven games played, two homers, two walks, and three K's. Uh, pretty good. So I, I, I've not heard anything. Have you heard anything about the actual planned ben: They, yeah, they said it on the broadcast today. He's gonna play two games in a row, take a day off, play two [00:56:00] games in a row, and see how he feels. Um, so I think we're looking at, you know, probably middle of next week, assuming that all goes, uh, well. Um, but it's nice to see that he is getting good looks. He is walking. He's not striking out a ton. He's hitting for power. Um, yeah, I think we're, we are on the road to Newt being back relatively soon. It makes sense that they would be as kinda deliberate and, and careful about it as they are being, though. Nate: Yeah, it's absolutely the right call. But we are all excited to have him back. Um, it is, we've been saying it, but it is a potential trans- uh, transformative addition to the lineup if he's anything at all like we hope that he, he could be And has been at certain times in ben: And he's just fun. I, I like watching him play. Nate: a good point. Yeah ben: Yeah Nate: need... Here, here's the, here's a narrative for you, Hambone. The Cardinals, they're in a bit of a skid. They've been the fun team, dogging them, tarps off, et cetera, but they ben: Yep. Nate: bit of a skid on the road. ben: Yep Nate: Maybe they come [00:57:00] home. We got Nootbaar there, brings the vibes back and everything. We got those b- we got them boys out there in right ben: Yeah. Do you think there's gotta be some Matt Carpenter salsa somewhere in a warehouse somew- like, we break that out, right? Nate: stanky ass, expired as hell, uh, Matt Carpenter salsa. ben: Yeah Nate: pouring that slowly all over them. ben: On them? Nate: Yeah. ben: Oh, okay. Sure. Nate: should read my fanfic. ben: Hmm. Okay Nate: Um, all right. I'm gonna run through some, uh, some quick, uh, transactions. Well, Bryson Mouts, we saw him. He was recalled from Triple-A Memphis. This is something we had been very excited about. We saw him pitch. Matt Swanson was optioned. ben: Yeah Nate: Maybe the, saddest outcome so far of the year. and Ryan Fernandez also optioned. Uh, he was brought up as the 27th man for the, um, for the double header there on Saturday. Uh, so I think, [00:58:00] you know, Mouts was interesting. He got a couple innings. He was supposed to start Sunday. that game was rained out, as you all know, and so he, he came out of relief on Monday. Kinda all over the place. ben: Yeah Nate: Lot of non-competitive pitches. Um, lot down and in the dirt. Um, Pie Hayes was all over the place in that game. good job. Um, I don't think it's really, uh, a good representation of, you know, Mouts. I'm, I'm looking forward to maybe seeing him, uh, not, you know, MLB debut, tough team, that sort of thing ben: Yeah. A- also, like, having him, uh, his first Major League appearance coming out of the bullpen, which is something he doesn't do down in the minors, is like, it's just kind of an uncomfortable, weird scenario. Nate: he was supposed to be the starter. You ben: Yeah Nate: it-- And we can write all this, uh, we can say all this, you know. Certainly plenty of guys have the exact same thing and come up and they are themselves. But I think it's also very human [00:59:00] to have maybe not been locked in, uh, like he probably wishes that he was. ben: I think most times you can just throw out somebody's Major League debut, especially a pitcher. Like, it's... I, I can't imagine what that's like. They're freaking out. Um, but it was nice to see him. It was... I, Nate: this ben: I think... Yeah. I, I think it was interesting. Keep going. That's good Nate: No, it's... I just wanna... I, I won't do it again until you start talking ben: Great. Um, but yeah, I thought it was interesting that he was the one that was called up. Um, after he was sent back down, Ryan Fernandez was called back up from Triple-A, so he is back on the team. I'm curious to see if and when another time for a spot starter comes, if they pick him, if they pick Dobbins, if they pick somebody else that we're not talking about right now. But I think it, you know, it's, it's just always fun to see a guy pitch for the big, in the big leagues that we haven't seen before. Nate: Yeah ben: and yeah, you know, he got his first [01:00:00] strikeout, all that good stuff. Good for him Nate: Sure. All right, let's go down on the farm. ben: Wow. Nate: Did you like that? ben: That was pretty good Nate: Um, the, we gotta hear the Baez bros, Joshua and Jesus, not brothers, but ben: Now, you, you know what is funny though? A little Easter egg for my FanGraphs friends out there. Uh, the same picture is used on both of their FanGraphs profiles right now. Both of them are Josh Baez's picture. Um, so poor J- uh, Jesus Baez, um Nate: Come on, you gotta get it. He's gotta, agent's gotta get an email into somewhere, you ben: I was actually, I was thinking I might, I might escalate this because it's silly. But yeah, I'm looking at it right now. It's Jesús Báez, shortstop for the St. Louis Cardinals, 20... And that is clearly a picture of Josh Báez Nate: That's so funny. Um, ben: bad. Yeah Nate: Baez a 30% K rate in May, which is an improvement. [01:01:00] ben: We're happy about that Nate: W- w- we like that. Um, definitely not a problem. he hit a bunch of homers, stole a bunch of bases, uh, walked around 7%. Um, yeah, I, uh, I, I still think you need to see that strikeout rate come down before we get real, real excited about... ben: All about trends, Nate. He's trend-- He started the season, like, f- striking out 40% of the time. He, in May, he dropped that down to 30% of the time. He's still hitting dongs. Nate: At, ben: He's still stealing bases Nate: in, uh, June, ben: That's exactly what I'm saying. Nate: July. He'll never ben: Yeah, you understand patterns. You are very smart Nate: Super into patterns right now. Um, yeah, better is good. So, um, ben: That's great analysis. I'm so happy to be sharing this show with you today Nate: Wow. Thanks. That's nice of you to say that, and I believe that you meant it. Jesus [01:02:00] Paez, at high A. He's got five homers in the last seven games. That's fun ben: Yes. He is having a very weird offensive season right now, and prior to these homers coming, it's been rough. Nate: Yeah ben: and even with these, his, his line is not great, which is crazy 'cause it's so early in the season and he just hit five homers. But, um, he's figuring it out. He's, you know... We'll, we'll take it, I think, any s- any step forward Nate: once told me, you know, "Look at the trends." ben: Yeah, you get it. Nate: Yeah. Yeah, I get ben: See, the problem that I'm sitting in is that I'm usually making the trends. I'm starting the trends. So it's hard to pick up these patterns Nate: you are known for your trendsetting. ben: Thank you Nate: Oh, did you see what Ben wore? ben: Specifically in my clothing, yeah Nate: a full suit of ham. It ben: Yeah. Ooh. God, that would be expensive. Nate: why they call him Ham Bone [01:03:00] ben: another thing I thought was interesting to point out is that Joshua Baez has mostly been starting in center field in Triple A. Um, Nate: Yeah ben: 27 games of his, like, 40-something have been at center field. Um, I don't know if he's gonna be a center fielder in the big leagues. He is-- would be the scariest center field- f- center fielder in all of baseball if that is the case. But it's interesting that that's where the Cardinals... It also makes s- like, you can flex a center fielder to left or right pretty easily. But an interesting thing to track Nate: one. Yeah. Well, man. Is, is center field wide open right now? Kind of feels ben: that's, I, that's kinda how it feels, and especially with this, it, I, I think we're leaning that way Nate: Newt coming back. You know, Newt left, keep him off his heels a little bit. Baez center and Walker right field. I don't know. ben: So that could be a very fun, scary outfield. Nate: Yeah, it's a fun and it's a tall outfield [01:04:00] ben: Yes, it is Nate: Um, how about Chase Davis? Remember him ben: Yeah, I remember Chase Davis. I was there, man Nate: You were great. what do we got on Chase Davis right now? ben: Uh, yeah, he has had quite the start to the season, even though the line doesn't look amazing. Last year he had 10 homers and nine stolen base on the entire season. In 2026, he has seven homers and nine stolen bases already. He's also improved his walk rate and K rate by, like, four or f- six percentage points so far. Um, it's not... You know, I think he's having some BABIP troubles 'cause he's hitting, like, .220-something. But again, trending the right direction. All of the things are looking good. I... It's almost like these guys get more dedicated coaching hours, and they start to figure out, um, how to play baseball professionally Nate: No. [01:05:00] I won't hear that. Um, ben: Yeah Nate: I will say this hap- d- you may remember last year there was also, like, a little, little moment when everyone's like, "Okay, Chase Davis is back. You know, he's in the picture. He's ripped out of his mind. Um, we love these kinds of guys. Tyler O'Neill, where you at?" Um, and then he kind of fell off again. ben: Yeah Nate: I think he is a streaky player, and is all about that K rate. so is this the time where the streak is, uh, you know, the good will outweigh the bad? I certainly hope so. Uh, but we're gonna need to see it for a little while, I think ben: Yeah. Yeah, I would not be surprised, uh, you know, depending on what happens with, like, kind of the Triple-A and Major League outfield situation, if he gets called up here relatively soon, just 'cause he is showing all that progression. And it really does look like e- everything else is, the, like the hits falling, the thing that he can't control as well is, is just not, um, Nate: Yeah ben: working [01:06:00] out for him. But the numbers are good, and I, you know, we've been saying this since the Cardinals draft, if he works out, God, that'd be so much fun. He's so fast, so smooth, so powerful. Um, it would be great Nate: I sp- we're just running through a bunch of names here. Uh, speaking of powerful, you called out Ty Peet as well. Um, you know, a, a big acquisition over the off-season. Power, speed guy. Strikes out a ton. Uh, He's in high A right now. Um, what are you seeing out of Ty Peet? ben: He's posting the highest WRC+ of his career so far in the Cardinals, uh, system. Um, wouldn't be surprised if he's called up at, at some point here soon. But I mean, obviously the Cardinals liked him. Um, hopefully they saw something in him and, and they're making adjustments. But he is doinking. Um, he's fast. He's an interesting player. I, I, I just thought it was, it was fun to see that kind of progress already. Nate: it's the exact same mold of a Josh Baez type of prospect. [01:07:00] Every tool in the world, absolute athlete, hits the ball super hard, steals a ton of bases, just strikes out too much. And, and the difference between them and an MLB is that ability to make cons- consistent contact. Um, and they do or they don't, ben: Yeah Nate: so hopefully he does, um, 'cause that's how you get these superstars. ben: If one of these three guys figures it out, that alone would be a huge win and we're having a lot of fun in St. Louis in a, in a year or two Nate: Well, look, look at Spencer Jones, you know, someone who you and I are both, uh, have been pretty big fans of at time. He, he just got called up and just struck out like 55% of the time or whatever in his, uh, in his two weeks and got sent right back down. You know, it's like that's the, the risk/reward pro- f- poor f- ben: I feel bad for Spencer Jones because his first [01:08:00] at-bat of his Major League career was against Jacob Mierkowski setting a record for the fastest pitch ever thrown by a starting pitcher. And when you're a guy that has a strikeout rate of 40%, that just seems like that's just cruel. That's ju- it- that's just not how it should work. But Nate: should have sat him that day. Maybe they said, "Hey bud, why don't you ben: Yeah. Nate: this one? ben: Yeah. Or Nate: a ben: give him one more day in Triple A to, to slug. I do think, I stand by this, I do think that Spencer Jones is gonna figure out the major leagues at some point. Um, but obviously not this cup of coffee Nate: Walker is the same, he's the same thing, you know? And we saw it's, took him three years in the majors to, to figure it out. And even still we're all like, "Is it real?" You know, it ben: Yeah Nate: real. Um, but like everyone's still holding their breath, uh, that this has like actually happened and we're not ben: Baseball is hard. Yeah Nate: Yeah. Um, all right. Let's hit a couple pitchers real quick. Um, and we gotta get to the second [01:09:00] half. I mentioned Liam Doyle earlier. Uh, there are some reasons to be, uh, excited. He does have a 36% K rate. So, uh, that's good. ben: In, in May to be specific. He is, uh, I don't- it's like he got angry or something. I don't, I don't know what's happening. Uh, if you watch this guy pitch, he is a l- total maniac. Um, not everything else is going perfect for him right now, but like Nate said, he has a 36% K rate Nate: Which is always the story on him, is he's gonna strike a ton of people out, but can he keep the command? Will the secondaries do anything? 'Cause he has probably one of the best fastballs in baseball already. ben: Yeah Nate: he just needs anything else to work. and, uh, you know, we'll see. Uh, fun name, always like saying it. ben: C- can you do it? Oh, is that how you actually say it? Nate: Fajardo. ben: Fajardo Nate: it's Yoik- I, I thought it was Yoiker until you just questioned me ben: [01:10:00] sometimes there's a J in there. I, I really don't know. But Nate: Y-H-O-I-K-E-R. Well, there's no way to know this for sure, so, ben: No, we'll get corrected in the Birds scored here as soon as this drops Nate: uh, so uh, he's in High A. He's 19. Um, and he currently has 37 innings, 3.38 ERA, a 33% K rate, and I think even more impressive almost is a 5% walk rate to go with that 33% K rate. So when we talk about KBB, it's pretty good. good. So this is the guy that the Cardinals, um, seemingly spent the extra money, uh, in the deal with the Red Sox to dip down into the minors and pluck this, um, you know, higher end, very young lottery ticket pitcher. Um, and early results would indicate that it was a good choice. So ben: I Nate: there's a long ben: s- Nate: to go for a ben: [01:11:00] sure Nate: at High A, uh, to get to us, but it's a pretty good start ben: It, it's seven starts. It's at high A. It's the first time he's been at this level. It's the first time he's been with the Cardinals. He's 19 against that competition. I think that's enough to at least mention on a podcast and be moderately excited about Nate: Yeah, I think so too. All right, Hambone, we're gonna get to the second half of the episode. We're gonna talk about the upcoming series and a little league news, and of course, we're gonna play a little game. before we do, we wanna remind our listeners that this show is listener supported on patreon.com. Patreon.com/talkingaboutbirds where you can find all the different tiers and the different things that, um, we offer, uh, depending on, on your subscription level. But subscribers at any paid level get access to early episodes typically. Now, this has become a Tab After Dark episode, so early is, uh, you know, late Wednesday night. But very often I get the episodes out to people Wednesday [01:12:00] afternoon, so if that fits your schedule a little bit better, that can be nice. Um, and I think the biggest feature, we talk about it all the time, is we get ac- you get access to the Bird Score. It's our private Discord server. It's a private chat room basically, um, where we're constantly talking about the Cardinals, keeping updated on news, following games. We do game day chats, all sorts of stuff. It's a good place to be. It's fun. Uh, we're doing statistical analysis in there. Ben was looking at pitch counts, uh, on Jordan Walker last night, which was sparked by another listener in an interesting conversation. So it's just a cool place to be, and I would recommend that you join. Um, if you wanna support the show in another way, please take a moment, just a moment, to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. I say it every week, it only takes a minute, and it actually really does help. Uh, and then finally, of course, tell your friends, tell your family, wherever they are, tell them to listen to Talking about Birds. Hambone, where else can people find us online? ben: Yeah, we got all the [01:13:00] socials that we all love so very much. You can find us on Blue Sky, Instagram. We got a TikTok. Uh, you can watch this show or listen to this show on YouTube if you're one of those freaks. Uh, you can find all of the podcast information and links and even T-shirts and more at talkingaboutbirds.com. Of course, you can email us at talking... Or sorry, at talkaboutbirds@gmail.com. Never trip up on that. Uh, and you can call us and leave a voicemail or t- send us a text message to 848-48-BIRDS. That's 848-482-4737 Nate: 848, 48 birds. And Hambone, I wanna do a little bit of self-promotion here for a moment. Haven't talked about it on the show. I made a game. I made a daily word game. If you like things like Wordle or the cro- mini crossword and other [01:14:00] New York Times games ben: have you not mentioned, or have, have you just been talking to me about it incessantly? Nate: I won't shut up about it. I really don't think I've said it on the show yet. ben: Well, we'll find out very soon once this releases Nate: uh, so you can check it out at... It's called Crossonym. Um, it's a game where you are trying to uncover the synonyms of a word. I think it's a lot of fun. It's quick. only take, you know, it's a, it's a, it's like a Wordle, can be done in a, in a minute or two. you can play it at crossonym.com. It's C-R-O-S-S-O-N-Y-M. ben: We'll link it in the show notes Nate: Sure. Ben's, uh, lovely wife has been a big part of helping me test it. She is a word game expert. so she plays it, as is, has, uh, my wife. So it's been, it's been a lot of fun, and I would love for people to check it out and let me know what they think. So it's crossonym.com. Um, all right, Hambone, have a couple [01:15:00] more series coming up, as you'd expect, because, you know, here in May, still a lot of baseball to go. I'm definitely not just scrolling or, uh, stalling as I... The Cubs, we already talked about it, the Cubs are coming to St. Louis. They unfortunately, you probably saw, they, they have snapped the skid, uh, in between us talking this morning and us ben: Perfect time to start a new losing streak, in my opinion Nate: Yeah. But the Cubs come to St. Louis, for three weekend series. You and I will be together at the Saturday game, along with all of our other blog and podcast buddies. Um, what do you, what are, what are the pitch-up matches, pitching matches that we will be seeing this weekend? ben: Way to land that plane. Uh, Friday night it looks like it's gonna be Shoto Imanaga against Kyle Leahy. Saturday when we, we are there, Ben Brown, love that name, against Andre Palante. That'll be exciting. Um, and even more fun Nate: have [01:16:00] some of my Ben Brown feels like something you would say, or like, "Peepoo." There's a ben: Oh Nate: bunch of Ben Brown in there. ben: Just happy to get the name out there, you know? Uh, on Sunday it is gonna be Jordan Wicks against Matthew Liberatore. Nate: Okay ben: so, you know, obviously the Cubbies are, we talked about it at the top of this episode, they're not at full strength from a starting pitching, uh, situation right now. They got Matthew Boyd, Edward Cabrera, Cade Horden, and Justin Steele all on the IL. Uh, not to mention a good number of relief pitchers. Um, Matt Shaw also currently, uh, on the IL. It's, uh, they are a beaten and battered and bruised team right now that is not playing well. Um, you know, I, I, I don't know where to start or, or how you wanna talk about it, but pretty much the whole team other than [01:17:00] Michael Busch haven't really been hitting or, or doing much of anything. Um, their bullpen hasn't been good. Weirdly enough, maybe Ben Brown is their best starter right now. Um- Nate: Uh, Imanaga has been good ben: Not lately though. Nate: Yeah, that's true ben: Um, and that's kind of the story of the Cubbies though, is just not lately, uh, they, they have not been good. But, um, you know, I, I think for all those reasons I like our chances, uh, going into this. Uh, y- I mean, even, uh, Ballesteros who had such a great start to the season, totally fallen off. Nate: Yeah ben: yeah. It's just... I don't know. I, I hope this keeps going. I hope they're not snapping out of it. Uh, you know, we said before the season started, I like the Bregman acquisition. I thought it made a lot of sense. Um, I like the, uh, Edward Cabrera acquisition. I thought it made a lot of sense. And, um, I do think that this team is better than how they've been [01:18:00] trending recently Nate: They recently called up, um, Ramirez, who is sort of a pop-up prospect this year. He's young, 22, he basically his way to the Major League roster, now partly because of all these injuries. But he, he's a guy not unlike, uh, a Brian Torres, who just comes in raking and an opportunity comes up, so they bring him up. Of course, he's much younger, so people are a little more hyped on him than people are on Brian Torres, ben: Rude. Nate: a triple today, ben: Let's go Nate: way. Um, so he's a guy to look out for, and they also called up Kevin Alcantara, which is another one of their higher-end prospects that they got from the Yankees a few years ago. So, know, these are all bench guys. We may... We'll probably see them get some starts though, um, over this weekend. So those are guys to look out for. But overall, yeah, I agree. You're, uh, They're in, they're in a tough spot right now. Um, and hopefully the Cardinals can just lay it on them ben: Smooch, smooch, [01:19:00] baby Nate: Wow. Um, all right, after that, the Rangers come to St. Louis, uh, for a three-game set ben: Oh, you love to see that, right? Uh, looks like as far as pitching match-ups, uh, on Monday night we have Jacob deGrom against Michael McGreevy, which just seems unfair. Uh, but we'll be fine. It'll be okay. Uh, then we have Nathan Eovaldi against Dustin May, and Mackenzie Gore on Kyle Leahy Nate: Um, yeah, that's tough. Uh, deGrom uh, know, arguably the best pitcher alive, uh, when he's healthy. Maybe the best pitcher ever when he's healthy. Uh, Nathan Eovaldi has been crushing recently. S-tier name to boot. and Mackenzie Gore, you know, it's, the story's kind of been the same on him for years at this point, is that, um, you know, everyone, myself included, I believe you as well, [01:20:00] have been real believers in Mackenzie Gore. Um, but he continues to, uh, do that thing where one game he strikes out 13 people and looks like the best pitcher in baseball, and another game he can't get out of the third 'cause he's given up, like, seven home runs. Um, so that, I think we all thought, oh, the Rangers are gonna fix him. Um, and it's kind of the same thing. so we don't know what version of him we'll get. Uh, so these will probably be overall, though, tough pitching match-ups for the Cardinals. ben: Yeah. It does not feel like the series from a pitching standpoint is to our advantage. Uh, that being said, you know, it's not like this team has been great. Uh, they're 25 and 29. Uh, their, uh, run differential is, uh, exactly 500. They are, you know, out right now. Uh, Corey Seager, uh, Wyatt Langford, arguably their two best play- uh, [01:21:00] yeah, their two best players, right? Nate: so. ben: Yeah. Nate: so ben: Are currently on the IL. Um, you know, they, they are not at full strength right now, and they haven't been playing fantastic baseball. Uh, it'll be a nice homecoming for Jake Burger. Did you know that he was from St. Louis, Nate? Nate: Of course, Hambone. ben: I knew you would. Nate: too. ben: There we go. Jon Hamm and Jake Burger. Nate: Yep. ben: Um, it's pretty good. Nate: That's pretty good. ben: So I think, I think that the Cardinals are going to wear down the starting pitching, pound their not great, uh, uh, relief corps, Nate: yeah ben: and the lack of the thump that they're supposed to have. I, I just think the Cardinals are gonna outslug this team, and it's gonna be a nice little series Nate: Could be. I hope so. I, you're right, like, that bullpen is probably their biggest weak point. This offense can okay. You know, Nimmo, Josh, Josh Jung is, [01:22:00] Jung has had a great, Uh, has had, got a bit of a bounce back year. Joc Pederson, Joc Pederson has been kind of hot lately. ben: Peterman Yeah Nate: Joc Pederman. Um, but Yeah This team is under .500. Um, and hopefully the Cardinals can, can, uh, ben: Do, do you think the Mets, if the Mets could, do you think they would do take-backsies on the, uh, Nimmo for Marcus Semien trade? Nate: I think right now the Mets are hoping to do take backsies on just about every decision they've made in the last... I saw on, uh, there was like a, on a Mets subreddit, people are trying to organize like a boycott of Citi Field and all of that. So it's going great over there. Um, I, I don't know. I, I don't think I can answer that educated without looking at their stats more. I'm, I, I know, I don't think either of them have been particularly effective for the team that they're on right now, though ben: Uh, Marcus Simeon has been significantly worse than Brandon Nimmo from a, from an FWAR and [01:23:00] WRC, all, all the numbers that we like. Uh, yeah. Nate: the Mets. We love it. ben: Yeah. It is funny, like A.J. Ewing is their, is their cleanup hitter right now for the Mets Nate: mean, he's a pretty well-regarded prospect, but ben: Sure Nate: it, it's, it's tough when the guy you called up two weeks ago is your, ben: That's, yeah. Nate: hitter. ben: Yeah, it's just going, just not going good for them. Um, Nate: love ben: and Nate: don't we, folks? ben: yeah, and do you see Lindor, or, uh, not Lindor, Alvarez just went down with a torn knee? Nate: Yeah Francisco, their, their, ben: Yeah Nate: bopping catcher, yeah. Yeah. There's some- something not right in the water over there. ben: On scum, sucks to suck. All right. Anyways, uh, Rangers come to St. Louis. I say we sweep them. Let's go Nate: All right. Yep. Good vibes are back. Tarps off, we're sweeping them. Um, all right, Hambone, let's, uh, let's ben: Is the blogger suite gonna go tarps off? Nate: No one wants ben: The people in the stands will kill themselves Nate: Um, all right. Uh, [01:24:00] let's talk about a little bit Elite news. What do you wanna talk about? ben: Yeah, let's get into it. Uh, the Astros throw a combined no-hitter. Um, we are forced to care about that. Uh, I don't think it's a thing. Um, first one of the year, I guess like, I don't know Nate: a thing. It's a combined no-hitter. You're just saying, ben: I'm saying I don't care about it Nate: care about a combined. Yeah. it was, it felt like a matter of time before Imai, uh, was going to do something good at the Major League level, so that was kind of fun. ben: Maybe s- Nate: I, I, ben: surprised that his year has been going... Like, you watch the guy pitch, and he's got some nasty stuff. Um, but obviously just hasn't, like, it hasn't worked out exactly Nate: I was dead wrong about Sasaki, obviously. I thought Sasaki was gonna come over and be the best pitcher in baseball, like, within a year. I also felt like Imai was going to be one of the best pitchers in baseball when he came over. Um, and, both of those have been wrong. But I do, I do think Imai is going [01:25:00] to be good. Um, and may- I don't know, maybe this is the start of something. Maybe it was just a fluky thing, I don't ben: Yeah. Nate: But I think he's gonna be good ben: Well, yeah, a good, good little start there, uh, with the Astros that day. Um, all right, moving on. A California state judge ruled that, uh, s- uh, Fernando Tatis Jr. owes Big League Advantage nearly $3.74 million as he tries to avoid an agreement to pay the firm 10% of his future MLB earnings. If you're not familiar with Big League Advantage, uh, Advance, sorry, not Advantage. Uh, essentially w- the way that they work is that they will offer minor league players cash right now, uh, in return, and it is just that they get that money, they could retire the next day, um, and Big League Advantage, Advance, God, terrible name, um, gets a percentage of their earnings over the life of their career. It's all defined on their website. They have a [01:26:00] whole list of players who have signed up as well, if you wanna go take a look at that. Um, but it's interesting to me. I, I do find it predatory. I find it kinda scummy, but it seems pretty locked tight. Like you, I, I believe Fernando got 2 million bucks, um, offered up 10% of his future earnings, obviously signed that, whatever that 300 million, 14-year contract was, and, um, you know, it's, it's going this way. There, there are some other high-profile names on their roster. I, I guess I'll be curious to see how this unfolds. I know Jazz Chisholm is one of them, and he's probably about to make a big old stack of cash here very soon. Um, see how this goes, but, uh, interesting Nate: I, yeah, I'm torn on it too. It cert- it feels like a payday loan sort of thing, you know? but you can also understand for every Tatis, you know, I wonder how much they're underwater on a lot of these. You know? It, it, it's, they're [01:27:00] basically, it's like stock market. You know? They're, ben: Yeah Nate: gambling on these guys and ben: Oh, now I like it. Now it's good Nate: Well, you know, actually let me rephrase that. They're betting on these guys, ben: Yeah, there we go Nate: much we love betting, don't we? Oh, we're just betting all the time. We're just never not. Ooh. ben: good Nate: Ooh, give me some bets. Um, so if every- like, you know, It's like if everybody's on board, I, I'd be curious how much they, what their actual profit on this, 'cause, like, two million bucks to a random prospect, I mean, we all know baseball. You know, Tatis was not considered a very good prospect for a long time too, you know? So ben: Yeah Nate: I, it, it feels bad. I bet it, it is arguably predatory, but, um, I don't know. ben: what's crazy is a former MLB player is the founder of it. Um, the whole thing is interesting. Nate: Well, you could see it being flipped the other way to ben: Sure Nate: the minor leagues, uh, you know, especially for a very long time, it's gotten a [01:28:00] little better, ben: Yeah Nate: they're generally underpaid. These guys are from all over the world. They are coming from places with no money at all. Um, and someone... It's not unlike we talk about with these extensions to younger players. If someone comes up to you and it's like, "I'll give you a million bucks right now, and you give me 15% of your maybe career in five years," ben: Yeah Nate: like, that million is generationally changing for people, you ben: Yeah Nate: So I don't know anything about the money, and I don't know anything about where J- uh, Tatis was in his career for him to get two million, you know? But, like, that's not a small amount of money to give to someone. You know, it ben: No Nate: but, like, if, if, if they're giving that level, you know, it's like, that's a pretty big gamble. So I ben: Obviously, Fernando Tatis, at least asked him, thought it was a good idea. And honestly, you- when you're making that much money and somebody's talking about 10% of it, throw a couple of lawyers at it and see what you can do. But sounds like he's gonna have to pay up Nate: [01:29:00] Yeah, he probably should, right? Like, I don't know. I don't know. I, I, I fear that there's some piece of this that I don't know and this whole thing is like a super shitty thing. But I can see it being, uh, you know, everyone's on board, ben: Yeah. Nate: you know? ben: Yeah. Um, all right, the White Sox Sam Antonacci, uh, Antonacci, S-on-acci, uh, became the first White Sox player in history to be hit by two pitches in the same inning. Uh, JJ and Ev- Ivan on the Cardinals are at 10 hit by pitches right now in over 50 games a piece. Sam leads the league with 11 in only 37 games played. Nate, I think we have somebody who is about to make history. The rate in which he is getting hit, two times in the same inning. Nate: die. This ben: This guy's gonna die. He had 35 hit by pitches in the minor leagues last year. Um, I, I think we are... I- it's something to watch is all I'm saying. This... We, we might be watching history Nate: I haven't wa- [01:30:00] so he's a box score that I've scouted 'cause, and I, I have him in some fantasy stuff, and he, he certainly, he popped up last year and he, he's got a great hit tool and he's, he seems to be a pretty good player for the, for the White Sox so far. Um, but I've not watched him actually play. So I don't... Is He, just, Willson Contreras is another guy who gets hit a lot, you know. Really crowding the box and not afraid to just sort of do the light shoulder turn instead ben: Yeah. Nate: you know, of a real duck. ben: he's pretty, he's pretty th- thick-bodied. He's pretty close to the plate. Nate: Yeah ben: He's kind of squat down, and he just does not even move a inch if the ball's coming at him. Nate: Oh, no ben: yeah. So I was looking at the record. Uh, the MLB record was 51 times. It happened in 1896. Huey Jennings got hit 51 times. Uh, so we'll see. Um, I, I believe in Antounassi. He is already at a pace that is stunning. Um, but I, I say we, [01:31:00] we follow this beat and, and I'm, I'm rooting for it. I wanna see it Nate: Yeah, I have to imagine, like, to some degree this record is, like, self, um, limiting. know? It's like eventually one's gonna hit the hand and you're gonna miss a month or something. You know? Like, you can only be hit by a pitch so many times and keep playing, you ben: Well, I, I will say it's a lot scarier to get hit by pitches in 2026 than it is in 1896 or whatever that Nate: they were lobbing it like, "Hey, ah, ben: Yeah Nate: you shouldn't hit me with that, son." You know, and that sort of thing ben: Yeah. The mo- the quote-unquote modern day record is only 50 by Ron Hunt in 1971. But, Nate: Classic Ron Hunt ben: basic- basically the same thing. Nate: Yeah ben: but anyways, I, I found that interesting, and again, it's a beat I'll be following as the season goes on. I'm a big Sam Antognosi fan all of a sudden. Nate: Great ben: All right, and one last piece of news I wanted to talk about. UCL- UCLA pitcher, this, this kinda got some, um, heat on [01:32:00] the, uh, baseball Reddit and, uh, baseball internet. UCLA pitcher Angel Cervantes, uh, we learned that he keeps a little mini dinosaur toy on the mound when he pitches. He takes it out of his pocket, he sets it on the backside of the mound and it helps him pitch, and he does it every game he starts. Nate: it ben: And it's, I think, my new favorite thing. The Cardinals need to draft this kid Nate: Well, I, so is there, know, are there MLB rules against this? ben: Well, uh, I don't know. I mean, I know, like, obviously players, they have, they have drawn things and stuff like that. But as far as, like... And also, like, the rosin bag sits back there. Nate: Yeah ben: but bringing a non-baseball object, I don't Nate: like there's gotta be a rule against it. And also, I can't believe he hasn't had a fly ball that has had him, like, crushing it, you know? ben: Well, pitchers don't field anymore, you know? They Nate: yeah, ben: don't ... Nate: don't wanna work anymore. ben: Pitchers don't catch balls anymore, so, you know, he's probably just protecting his dinosaur the whole time[01:33:00] Nate: He just dives in front of it. No. I, I think it's great. I love a guy with a little guy. ben: Yeah. Nate: it's cute. It makes me think, like, there So, like, in poker, there's something that you can use to, uh, they call it, like, a card protector, and, and you basically will have, like, a little item. People will often just use a chip, and if it's on your cards, they're, they're safe. Uh, they can't be accidentally mucked, things like that. But some players get real wacky with it, and they'll have, like, items that are like, "This is my chip protector," and it's a whole It becomes a whole thing. It's part of their, like, image on the field or on, at, at the table, you know? So it made me think, like, if this is actually allowed and, like, it's going to be an arms race of, like, wacky shit on the mound, I think. I mean, pitchers at ben: Is it though? I Nate: are not- ben: baseball players are not one to be like, "I'm gonna go be an individual." Nate: Yeah. ben: of them are not Nate: I started to make, [01:34:00] get to that same point, um, which yeah, pitchers are not very, players are not very, uh, whimsical. ben: No Nate: you know, there'll be someone out there with, like, something silly. Um, but I bet there's a rule against it at MLB level. ben: Yeah Nate: of course, there's no way for us to know this, so, ben: Couldn't look it up even if I tried Nate: What would you bring out there? ben: I don't know, maybe a little dinosaur. It sounds pretty good. Nate: really good. one. It's a real... You might've got it in one, honestly. ben: I, don't know if you've seen the image of this, but it's, I think it's a little brontosaurus or, or something like that, and it just... He sits it standing up on the backside. I mean, you know, you look back and it reminds me of that, uh, that famous quote of, uh, of the baseball player in the '70s. He's like, uh, oh, I'm not gonna be able to reproduce it right now, but where he talks about every time he's, he's in a, in a slump or whatever, he thinks about di- dinosaurs, and if he can believe in dinosaurs, he can believe in himself or something like that. Um, maybe [01:35:00] there's some, some inspo there Nate: think I would bring my, uh, spelling bee trophy from 1998. ben: Wow, you are really, you've been waiting 200 episodes to slide that one in here, haven't you? Nate: bad boy right there behind me. ben: Wow Nate: That's intimidating ben: All right. All right, Nate, that's all the league news I got for this week Nate: All right, Hambone, we're going back to a classic. We just played it. I thought I'd give you another, another crack at it. We're trying it again. We're playing is this guy? ben: Oh yeah, great. Are you gonna hallucinate some facts this time? Nate: You know, it was suggested that we do, that we actually create a game where I, where it's five facts but one of them is fake and you have to like, you know, that's just part of it. And ben: Yeah. Nate: I think it's a great idea. For this one I've just, uh, I'm keeping it standard. I'm giving you a ben: Yeah Nate: um, after, after the really just embarrassing performance ben: Still lacking. Yeah Nate: so if you're new to the [01:36:00] show, the way this works is I have the name of a Major League Baseball player who played at some point at the Major League level for the St. Louis Cardinals. I have a set of clues that are, uh, that start vague and get more and more specific. Ben makes a guess after every gu- uh, after every clue. Hambone, are you ready? ben: Let's do it Nate: This player born on June 3rd, 1994 in Bronxville, New York ben: Third, 1994. So what, he's like 32? Um, Bronxville, New York. The most recent Cardinal that I can think of that is from New York is Harrison Bader. Let's go Harrison Bader Nate: Damn it, you got it in one. What a, what a redemption. I did not think you would remember, uh, Bader that clearly. Okay. [01:37:00] ben: Um, um, tater tots, baby, so on and so forth Nate: Yeah. All right. Well, that's funny. You got it in one, so nice job. Congrats. ben: Redeemed. Okay, I gotta hear the fact that you made up though, that even though you said you weren't gonna make one up, I know you did Nate: Uh, no, I didn't make one up, but ben: Okay Nate: will read you. The most of his stats were, you know, uh, uh, what teams he played for, when he was drafted, um, that he won a Gold Glove in center field, and then finally, um, you may be a fry guy, but this Bud's spud preference is a hot tot. ben: That's pretty good Nate: Thank you. I figured you'd get it before that, but I did wanna get that out. so congrats Hambone, you ben: Thank you Nate: one. You've tumbled my Harrison Bader puzzle. ben: Yeah Nate: maybe I, maybe I will. I'll start doing like, player was born in June 3rd, 1912, and that's the f- that's the fake ben: Okay. That would be harder. [01:38:00] Um, but now I know you're gonna do it, you stupid son of a bitch Nate: Or maybe that's part of the game. ben: Oh, God. Nate: Maybe ben: He's so good Nate: maybe I've just planted a little seed. ben: 40 chess, people Nate: All right, Hambone, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. Nice job. You win. Everyone wins, except for the Cardinals, uh, right now. ben: Damn Nate: we'll be back next week to talk about the Cardinals' successful series against the Cubs and the Rangers. We'll recap the blogger day after we grill Heimbloom, ben: Or guy Nate: Yep. And I will not burn myself with hot cheese. That is a promise I've made to myself. Um, and anyway, so, uh, thank you everyone for listening. Check out all the links to everything at talkingaboutbirds.com, until next week, go Cardinals ben: No birds