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Why Parent Updates Alone Can’t Fix Stalled Play Therapy Progress · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:04
  Cathi Spooner: A weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy.
• 0:17
  Cathi Spooner: To elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas so you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:33
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:49
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there.
• 0:49
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to this week's episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:54
  Cathi Spooner: And I am newly back.
• 0:59
  Cathi Spooner: I guess I got back on Sunday from the Association for Play Therapy Annual Conference.
• 1:05
  Cathi Spooner: It was awesome.
• 1:06
  Cathi Spooner: I got some really great information, but it, while I was there, I, it all also kind of reminded me 'cause there was, um, two of the trainings that I was in.
• 1:16
  Cathi Spooner: They talked a lot about the topic that I'm gonna talk about today.
• 1:22
  Cathi Spooner: Ish, I would say ish.
• 1:25
  Cathi Spooner: But it reminded me why what we're gonna talk about today is so important and, and that to me is one of the things that we miss out a lot using our traditional play therapy approaches.
• 1:43
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, and I say that broadly.
• 1:46
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 1:49
  Cathi Spooner: I think one of the things that happens is when we're using more of a traditional play therapy approach, then what happens is we miss out on some really important information, and that is a kind of a mindset shift.
• 2:10
  Cathi Spooner: That children don't exist in a vacuum by themselves.
• 2:15
  Cathi Spooner: That that they come to you once a week maybe for family play, I'm sorry, they come to you once a week for their individual play therapy sessions.
• 2:28
  Cathi Spooner: You're spending 45 minutes to an hour with your client.
• 2:33
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe some of that time is the check-ins.
• 2:37
  Cathi Spooner: With parents and then you're getting the phone calls in between the sessions or maybe the emails and texts talking about all the things not going right.
• 2:48
  Cathi Spooner: And the thing is, when we, when we understand that children exist within a family system, then there are some other factors that we miss out on.
• 3:05
  Cathi Spooner: If we are not shifting the way that we fundamentally view play therapy.
• 3:14
  Cathi Spooner: And that to me, that was, that was, I was kind of reminded about that so many times over the, over the weekend when I was taking these trainings at the annual conference.
• 3:26
  Cathi Spooner: And so I was really excited to be able to talk about that a little bit more even today.
• 3:32
  Cathi Spooner: And, and so the topic that we are talking about today is.
• 3:39
  Cathi Spooner: Why parent updates alone can't fix stalled play therapy progress because I think, I don't know, I've raise your virtual hand if you have ever felt like you were stalling out.
• 3:55
  Cathi Spooner: And the feedback you get from the parents is, I've tried what you've suggested and it doesn't work.
• 4:02
  Cathi Spooner: And, and then, um.
• 4:06
  Cathi Spooner: Or maybe they'll say something like, oh, that doesn't work for my child.
• 4:11
  Cathi Spooner: The, the thing is, when we're using more of this traditional approach of individual family, uh, individual play therapy sessions and maybe check-ins at the end, or maybe monthly parent only sessions, then there's a likelihood.
• 4:30
  Cathi Spooner: When things are feeling stalled, there's a likelihood that there's something missing.
• 4:36
  Cathi Spooner: And that's what I wanna talk about today.
• 4:40
  Cathi Spooner: When progress stalls in play therapy, what needs to happen, what's the reason, maybe it, it, it's stalling out and what to do about that.
• 4:52
  Cathi Spooner: So that's our topic of conversation today.
• 4:56
  Cathi Spooner: Why parent updates alone can't fix.
• 5:00
  Cathi Spooner: Play therapy progress stalled, play therapy progress.
• 5:04
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're watching live, I would love to know who's here today.
• 5:09
  Cathi Spooner: Post your name in the comments.
• 5:12
  Cathi Spooner: If you are watching on YouTube or LinkedIn or you are watching live on Instagram.
• 5:20
  Cathi Spooner: So if you see me going back and forth between, uh, screens, it's because I.
• 5:26
  Cathi Spooner: S Stream live on YouTube and LinkedIn and then also on Instagram, on my phone.
• 5:35
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause it's the platform I use.
• 5:37
  Cathi Spooner: It's really clunky.
• 5:39
  Cathi Spooner: Clunky, that's my new word.
• 5:40
  Cathi Spooner: Clunky to kind of do.
• 5:44
  Cathi Spooner: Instagram on Streamy Yard, which is my streaming platform.
• 5:48
  Cathi Spooner: For those of you watching the replay, maybe you're watching the replay from my Facebook group, or maybe you're watching the replay on YouTube or LinkedIn, or.
• 5:58
  Cathi Spooner: Or even Instagram, I would still love to know who's here.
• 6:03
  Cathi Spooner: So post your name in the comments, join the conversation.
• 6:08
  Cathi Spooner: What questions do you have?
• 6:10
  Cathi Spooner: What are your experiences?
• 6:12
  Cathi Spooner: The only thing that I ask is that we don't share specific client information because this is a public format, and so we wanna make sure not to.
• 6:23
  Cathi Spooner: Um, we, we wanna make sure to maintain privacy and so I'm gonna turn my ins there, Instagram a little bit.
• 6:35
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so go ahead and post a name.
• 6:37
  Cathi Spooner: Feel free to send me a message.
• 6:40
  Cathi Spooner: I love hearing from you guys.
• 6:42
  Cathi Spooner: I think one of the things that was so cool for me were those of you who are maybe watching on YouTube.
• 6:52
  Cathi Spooner: Or maybe, uh, watching on Instagram, maybe some of you on my email list.
• 7:00
  Cathi Spooner: I had another, also somebody from Play Therapy Elevation Circle, which was my kind of brand new play therapy community to get support and consultation with each other.
• 7:13
  Cathi Spooner: We do a book club in there, so I got to meet in person.
• 7:18
  Cathi Spooner: We, we connect over Zoom, but it was really, uh, nice.
• 7:23
  Cathi Spooner: And also somebody from Play Therapy Academy.
• 7:25
  Cathi Spooner: It's always nice to, because we're connecting.
• 7:29
  Cathi Spooner: Over the internet and Zoom.
• 7:31
  Cathi Spooner: It's always, it was nice really connecting with those of you who are watching the replays or maybe watching online, uh, watching the, the live version.
• 7:44
  Cathi Spooner: It was really cool connecting with you, so I definitely appreciate that you came up and said hello at the conference.
• 7:51
  Cathi Spooner: One person even reached out by email 'cause you're on my email list and say, Hey, I'm gonna be there.
• 7:57
  Cathi Spooner: So that was really awesome.
• 7:59
  Cathi Spooner: That was one of the really cool things about the conference.
• 8:02
  Cathi Spooner: So that was awesome.
• 8:04
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for coming up.
• 8:06
  Cathi Spooner: Alrighty.
• 8:06
  Cathi Spooner: So today we are talking about why parent updates alone can't fix stall play therapy progress.
• 8:15
  Cathi Spooner: So one of the things that I want to, to talk, think about is maybe a core belief that needs to shift.
• 8:25
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and that core belief in play therapy and I, I would say mental health community in general, unless you are a marriage and family therapist, then the, the core be, and I, I would say probably some social work.
• 8:44
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause in social work we have a tendency to see person in environment, but we still only just work with the individual.
• 8:55
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and so I think I, I, I feel like I'm a marriage and family therapist in my soul in graduate school, my social work program, we actually, and this was like three, oh, more than three decades ago now.
• 9:13
  Cathi Spooner: Um, we, in the program that I was in, we only.
• 9:18
  Cathi Spooner: Looked at family family systems theory.
• 9:23
  Cathi Spooner: So my, my grounding, my foundational framework is family systems theory.
• 9:31
  Cathi Spooner: Looking at things systemically and I, and I think.
• 9:36
  Cathi Spooner: I think in the play therapy community, just like in the wider mental health community, the, our core belief is the best way to help children heal is individual play therapy.
• 9:51
  Cathi Spooner: And then we'll get updates from parents maybe the last five to 10 minutes of the session.
• 9:57
  Cathi Spooner: Or maybe you'll do a parent only session.
• 10:02
  Cathi Spooner: And then maybe get updates by text or emails or phone calls in between sessions as, as you get information and maybe give information about what's going on and maybe give some suggestions to parents about book recommendations or, or, um, strategies to try at home.
• 10:27
  Cathi Spooner: And then, and then you're usually, um, meeting with the child for an individual play therapy session once a week for maybe 45 minutes to an hour.
• 10:38
  Cathi Spooner: And the thing is, I get it.
• 10:40
  Cathi Spooner: We're trained to focus on creating that safe space for our clients so that they can use that free and protected space to work through.
• 10:51
  Cathi Spooner: Whatever issues that they need to work through and they have a dedicated time that's just for them where they can work through what's going on and maybe find some healing.
• 11:05
  Cathi Spooner: And then you, you gather parents, you gather information from parents, maybe at the end.
• 11:12
  Cathi Spooner: Of the session or, or in between because that way you're, you're integrating the parents and you're getting information from them, and maybe you're giving information and doing it this way.
• 11:27
  Cathi Spooner: Just meeting individually gives you dedicated time to work with your client.
• 11:34
  Cathi Spooner: And then depending on your play therapy model.
• 11:37
  Cathi Spooner: You're either going to 100% of the time follow, like child-centered play therapy, or maybe you are totally directive and it's you directing everything or maybe you're somewhere in the middle where sometimes you lead and sometimes you follow.
• 11:58
  Cathi Spooner: And so, and that way you can, you can get information from clients.
• 12:04
  Cathi Spooner: You can.
• 12:05
  Cathi Spooner: Um, help to teach them some strategies and new skills and new ways of meeting their needs.
• 12:13
  Cathi Spooner: And, and the reality is, pretty much most universities, unless you're a marriage and family program, universities teach more of an adult model, which is individual therapy.
• 12:27
  Cathi Spooner: So that's the adult model and a lot of, a lot of you who are in the child and adolescent mental health space, you.
• 12:35
  Cathi Spooner: You are probably your graduate program, unless you are fortunate enough to go to some of the programs where they do have play therapy.
• 12:44
  Cathi Spooner: I would say the vast majority of people maybe have a play therapy class if they're lucky, or like my program had, uh, a class on basically diagnosis for children.
• 13:00
  Cathi Spooner: That was it.
• 13:02
  Cathi Spooner: Using the DSM three, I think it was the DSM three TR.
• 13:07
  Cathi Spooner: That's how far back mine goes.
• 13:11
  Cathi Spooner: And, and so that's, I, I get it.
• 13:14
  Cathi Spooner: And to be honest, I actually do use that model.
• 13:18
  Cathi Spooner: I will meet with children, I will do the individual therapy because I wanna see what's going on.
• 13:25
  Cathi Spooner: I wanna create that safe space for them.
• 13:29
  Cathi Spooner: But the thing is.
• 13:31
  Cathi Spooner: What happens then if we're only using parent updates, then it's gonna keep us from seeing some of those crucial patterns that are going on for your client and their parents and family members that.
• 13:51
  Cathi Spooner: That might be the missing piece to the puzzle, to really understanding what is going on, that your clients seem stalled.
• 14:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and that is really your ability to observe firsthand those interaction patterns instead of relying on secondhand information.
• 14:17
  Cathi Spooner: That's exactly what we're doing.
• 14:19
  Cathi Spooner: We're getting secondhand information from parents and, and they might be pretty accurate.
• 14:28
  Cathi Spooner: They might not be pretty accurate, and they might be somewhere in between.
• 14:32
  Cathi Spooner: The reality is though, who of us fully get a neutral perspective of things we, we all have.
• 14:45
  Cathi Spooner: The lens through which we make sense of and understand, and that that's rooted in all of our implicit memories and the meaning we make of experiences way back from birth.
• 15:01
  Cathi Spooner: Right?
• 15:02
  Cathi Spooner: So none and, and nobody escapes life without having some challenges, including us as therapists.
• 15:12
  Cathi Spooner: And so.
• 15:14
  Cathi Spooner: We're, so what we're relying on parents who most likely have not been trained in play therapy or mental health, maybe they have, maybe you're working with parents who are therapists and who of us fully understand and can accurately assess what's going on within and between.
• 15:41
  Cathi Spooner: People and relationships, including family relationships and those parent-child relationships.
• 15:50
  Cathi Spooner: And so I've seen this so many times over the last, I would say like almost 35 years, I've seen this, especially in the beginning.
• 16:01
  Cathi Spooner: In the beginning.
• 16:02
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause I used the traditional model 'cause that's what I was taught and that's what I learned when I was learning plea therapy.
• 16:10
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 16:11
  Cathi Spooner: And that's the model pretty much that we use in mental health.
• 16:16
  Cathi Spooner: So I can't tell you how many times we would, we would be in sessions.
• 16:22
  Cathi Spooner: I would be meeting with the child, doing individual play therapy sessions.
• 16:27
  Cathi Spooner: Parents would do their parent only sessions with me and then talk about their child and dysregulating at home.
• 16:36
  Cathi Spooner: This happened so many times.
• 16:39
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, I mean, raise your hand, virtual hand if you can relate to this, where you, your client is frequently dysregulated.
• 16:48
  Cathi Spooner: Having those, um, outburst like anger outbursts, yelling, throwing things, telling their parent, their parent is a terrible parent, or saying they're gonna jump down the stairs or jump off the roof, or some other thing that.
• 17:06
  Cathi Spooner: Um, terrifies parents when they're little, little tiny child says this to them and then their, their parents are terrified that their child is gonna go up, grow up, and have a terrible, horrible life of crime or some other horrible situation because they're worried.
• 17:26
  Cathi Spooner: They're worried about their.
• 17:28
  Cathi Spooner: If they're worried about their child, but I can't.
• 17:31
  Cathi Spooner: So how many of you have had these experiences where you give strategies to parents, but then they, they tell you nothing's working?
• 17:40
  Cathi Spooner: And so what I learned to do was start using, I began in including parent, just at the, in the really, really beginning, well actually then that's, that's not true.
• 17:53
  Cathi Spooner: I've always had a family system, so I'll bring the whole family in there sometimes.
• 17:57
  Cathi Spooner: But, uh, sometimes when I start just with the parent and the child, it becomes instantly clear that the parent is overwhelmed and hesitant and not sure what to do.
• 18:11
  Cathi Spooner: And if you're thinking about this from an attachment standpoint.
• 18:16
  Cathi Spooner: Then you, then you understand that children need their parents to co-regulate.
• 18:21
  Cathi Spooner: If we use a circle of security term, we would say parents need to be bigger, stronger, wiser, and kind.
• 18:29
  Cathi Spooner: And when I would get parents in there, I would see for myself.
• 18:34
  Cathi Spooner: Where this disconnect is and where things are stalling because parent isn't able to be bigger, stronger, wiser, and kind because they don't know how and they need help.
• 18:47
  Cathi Spooner: And so in the sessions that we can do that, or other times when I've had, um, I've had, I've worked with the kids individually and they have a issue with one.
• 19:02
  Cathi Spooner: Parent and the parent doesn't seem to understand or they do, but they try things and it doesn't seem to work.
• 19:10
  Cathi Spooner: That's what's getting reported to you, and so maybe just to have the whole family in there.
• 19:16
  Cathi Spooner: I can remember a few times where I've had like one parent, maybe that one parent and the child, and maybe a sibling in there.
• 19:26
  Cathi Spooner: That gave me the opportunity to see where things were getting stalled, as well as it gave me the opportunity to see some of the strengths of that parent and where the parent is kind of trying, but they're missing, they're not able to connect.
• 19:45
  Cathi Spooner: And if I didn't have them in the session together, I would not have that ability.
• 19:52
  Cathi Spooner: To see that for myself, using my skill and knowledge to assess and then kind of figure out what's going on and where are they missing, then that would help me figure out what needs to happen.
• 20:09
  Cathi Spooner: So we have Hey Sharon Ann.
• 20:12
  Cathi Spooner: So, uh, Sharon, Anne and I have connected a few times on LinkedIn.
• 20:18
  Cathi Spooner: So Sharon Ann says, yes.
• 20:20
  Cathi Spooner: So relatable.
• 20:21
  Cathi Spooner: I'm a trauma coach training to be a future LCSW.
• 20:25
  Cathi Spooner: Woo-hoo.
• 20:26
  Cathi Spooner: And that was one of my sessions.
• 20:28
  Cathi Spooner: Um, one day it was hard, but I made it through the session.
• 20:32
  Cathi Spooner: Okay.
• 20:33
  Cathi Spooner: Um, you know, what's Sharon Ann?
• 20:35
  Cathi Spooner: You, you may be interested.
• 20:37
  Cathi Spooner: I'm gonna talk about, um.
• 20:39
  Cathi Spooner: I know you're probably in grad school, so funds are limited, so if you can't, don't worry about it.
• 20:44
  Cathi Spooner: But for those of you who also who are interested, that kind of gave me a a reminder.
• 20:50
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I do have a training coming up on attachment focused family play therapy that's gonna teach you how to use a model when you get.
• 21:00
  Cathi Spooner: Family members together.
• 21:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so you may be interested.
• 21:04
  Cathi Spooner: Stay tuned at the end.
• 21:05
  Cathi Spooner: I'm gonna talk a little bit more about that plus some other trainings I have coming up, but yeah, that's so true.
• 21:10
  Cathi Spooner: We get in there and these things happen and then we're like, ah, I don't know what to do.
• 21:15
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and, and it happens over and over.
• 21:19
  Cathi Spooner: Like, I, I can't even tell you how many times I have used.
• 21:26
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I have had, so for high conflict families, right, where there are siblings and the siblings are going between the two homes and parents don't like each other, they're really mad at each other, and for the children can be really hard.
• 21:45
  Cathi Spooner: One, I think it's hard for kids to go back and forth between the homes anyway.
• 21:50
  Cathi Spooner: If parents are doing a really good job of co-parenting together, then it kind of, it reduces some of that, uh, distress for the kids when they don't get along well and it's, uh, those handoffs can be pretty stressful or being in the two homes can be stressful.
• 22:12
  Cathi Spooner: Sibling relationships can be a really, um.
• 22:18
  Cathi Spooner: I would say it's a underutilized way of helping children in these types of situations.
• 22:27
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I say that with some caveats, which I'll talk a little bit about, but, so here's an example.
• 22:33
  Cathi Spooner: Like there are times when I, I just meet with the siblings only, and then it gives me the ability to see the sibling dynamics.
• 22:46
  Cathi Spooner: And what are the strengths and, and are they able to use each other for support?
• 22:52
  Cathi Spooner: Where might they be struggling to do that?
• 22:55
  Cathi Spooner: And then in these sibling only sessions, we can work on build, strengthening those relationships.
• 23:03
  Cathi Spooner: So the kids who are going, those are the ones going back and forth between the two homes.
• 23:08
  Cathi Spooner: They can use each other for support and the research supports.
• 23:14
  Cathi Spooner: The, um, benefits of sibling relationships to mitigate stressful si situations for children within their family systems.
• 23:28
  Cathi Spooner: There was a, and I did a, I did a livestream episode, so it's recorded.
• 23:33
  Cathi Spooner: So I did a previous episode about this, um, article that I'm gonna reference, but I'm just gonna give a.
• 23:41
  Cathi Spooner: A summary here, so this research was done by Amichi and colleagues, and it was published in 2022.
• 23:49
  Cathi Spooner: The title was Maternal Stress, child Behavior, and the Promotive, that role of older siblings.
• 23:57
  Cathi Spooner: It was published in the BMC Public Health Journal, so I think it's public domain, if you wanna research that one and find the article yourself, that showed older siblings can provide a buffering effect for siblings during times of maternal stress.
• 24:16
  Cathi Spooner: And so the caveat I would say is we don't wanna parenty older children.
• 24:21
  Cathi Spooner: We don't wanna parenty any of the children and.
• 24:25
  Cathi Spooner: Sibling relationships are really important relationships, and I would cite evidence by saying, how many of you on, uh, Facebook or Instagram, when it's, when it's, uh, sibling day or sister day or sibling and or brother day, you post pictures of.
• 24:50
  Cathi Spooner: Your relationship with your siblings and all the awesome things.
• 24:54
  Cathi Spooner: Some of, uh, some of you like myself don't have those.
• 24:59
  Cathi Spooner: That was a really hard thing.
• 25:01
  Cathi Spooner: And so sometimes those might just kind of remind us, oh, it's nice.
• 25:07
  Cathi Spooner: Other people had that, but sure, wish I had that myself.
• 25:11
  Cathi Spooner: But here's the thing, we can help the next generation have that.
• 25:17
  Cathi Spooner: We can help our clients have that, so that they can someday post pictures on Instagram or, uh, or um, Facebook about their awesome sibling relationships.
• 25:30
  Cathi Spooner: And the thing is, I've seen that work, especially in these high conflict family situations and siblings being a support for each other.
• 25:41
  Cathi Spooner: So I, I give those example as a way of, of.
• 25:46
  Cathi Spooner: Thinking about things differently and what would that actually look like in play therapy?
• 25:54
  Cathi Spooner: Because currently we, when we prioritize secondhand information over direct observation.
• 26:05
  Cathi Spooner: Sometimes I think this is a little ouchy, so I, I don't mean it to be ouchy.
• 26:10
  Cathi Spooner: I just wanna challenge thinking a little bit.
• 26:12
  Cathi Spooner: I don't think this is always the case, but I do think sometimes we choose.
• 26:17
  Cathi Spooner: Convenience because it's easier.
• 26:20
  Cathi Spooner: And having more than one person in the play therapy session makes us uncomfortable.
• 26:27
  Cathi Spooner: And we, um, we get overwhelmed and we think about, oh, what do I do if there's different developmental stages in there?
• 26:36
  Cathi Spooner: What do I do if somebody has a temper tantrum in there?
• 26:40
  Cathi Spooner: What do I do if parents say something that.
• 26:44
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe it's not the most useful, so it's easier.
• 26:49
  Cathi Spooner: And we are more comfortable not doing the family play therapy sessions.
• 26:55
  Cathi Spooner: And so I think sometimes it's'cause we haven't been trained and we don't know, and we give it a try and it doesn't work.
• 27:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so we're trying and we're trying to be outside of our comfort zone.
• 27:08
  Cathi Spooner: But I think sometimes we just choose convenience over effectiveness, and it's kind of like trying to fix a car.
• 27:17
  Cathi Spooner: Like, I always think about the car repair people.
• 27:21
  Cathi Spooner: When I have to explain what's going on to my car, I'm talking to a mechanic.
• 27:27
  Cathi Spooner: I don't know car things, I do not know car things.
• 27:30
  Cathi Spooner: I always wish my husband would go because at least he kind of knows car things.
• 27:35
  Cathi Spooner: But it's, it's kind of like going to the car repair place, explaining to you.
• 27:42
  Cathi Spooner: The the person at the desk, what the problem is, and you're trying to explain the noises and the weird things that your car is doing versus having the mechanic take your car out for a drive or run their own diagnostics that they can see for themselves what's going on using their expertise and knowledge.
• 28:11
  Cathi Spooner: So one of the things that I, I wanted to kind of talk about or maybe challenge a little bit is conceptualizing plea therapy differently.
• 28:26
  Cathi Spooner: And, and that would be when you're bringing parents, parents and siblings into the play therapy sessions with your client.
• 28:37
  Cathi Spooner: So here's the thing, here's another little caveat to.
• 28:41
  Cathi Spooner: I wanna make sure I'm real clear about this.
• 28:44
  Cathi Spooner: Your client is still your client.
• 28:46
  Cathi Spooner: The child is still your client.
• 28:48
  Cathi Spooner: You're bringing parents in as a way to support the progress for your client.
• 28:56
  Cathi Spooner: You are bringing siblings in as a way to support progress for your client.
• 29:03
  Cathi Spooner: You're not doing individual therapy for parents.
• 29:09
  Cathi Spooner: What you're doing is you're helping parents develop the skills or get the support that they need in order to get a deeper level of healing for their child.
• 29:22
  Cathi Spooner: And that might mean you have to work with parents about their, their own trauma triggers and how that might show up in the sessions.
• 29:33
  Cathi Spooner: In a circle of security, they would call it shark music.
• 29:37
  Cathi Spooner: So you're helping parents recognize their shark music.
• 29:42
  Cathi Spooner: In my attachment and focus family play therapy model, I talk about parents skills needed.
• 29:48
  Cathi Spooner: So I, I talk about family space, which is what parents need structure, but they need flexibility.
• 29:57
  Cathi Spooner: Parents need to be present and attuned.
• 30:00
  Cathi Spooner: Fully present and attuned in the moment because if they don't, they'll miss the cues that their children are trying to to show.
• 30:09
  Cathi Spooner: So we use curiosity.
• 30:11
  Cathi Spooner: We, we use the therapeutic powers of play, so we're helping parents access the therapeutic powers of play as a play therapist and we're, we want to help parents.
• 30:27
  Cathi Spooner: Be accepting and empa empathic.
• 30:30
  Cathi Spooner: So accepting doesn't mean that we have to, everything is permissible.
• 30:37
  Cathi Spooner: It doesn't mean that at all.
• 30:39
  Cathi Spooner: We still need structure and structure as boundaries.
• 30:42
  Cathi Spooner: So, but we can have empathy and we can have acceptance that the child is doing the best that they can.
• 30:49
  Cathi Spooner: Like DBT, your clients are doing the best that they can at any moment in time.
• 30:55
  Cathi Spooner: And the other dialectic of that is, and they can do better, right?
• 30:59
  Cathi Spooner: So structure and acceptance is we need structure, we, we need it to be flexible and we need to be.
• 31:10
  Cathi Spooner: Accepting that they're doing the best they can.
• 31:12
  Cathi Spooner: We're accepting of parents.
• 31:14
  Cathi Spooner: They're doing the best that they can and they can do better.
• 31:17
  Cathi Spooner: And part of that is them trusting us that we're not judging them and that we wanna provide support so we can help them.
• 31:25
  Cathi Spooner: With the support that they need to make the changes.
• 31:28
  Cathi Spooner: That's why they're coming, right?
• 31:29
  Cathi Spooner: They're coming because they need our help.
• 31:33
  Cathi Spooner: And so when you bring parents into those play therapy sessions, you can witness in real time, what are those attachment patterns that are going on?
• 31:46
  Cathi Spooner: What are those interaction patterns?
• 31:48
  Cathi Spooner: Where are the strengths?
• 31:50
  Cathi Spooner: Where are they missing?
• 31:52
  Cathi Spooner: Things kind of missing.
• 31:54
  Cathi Spooner: The mark or like two ships passing and not connecting, right?
• 32:00
  Cathi Spooner: You're looking at how the child responds to the parent.
• 32:03
  Cathi Spooner: How the parent re re, uh, responds to the child.
• 32:07
  Cathi Spooner: So from an attachment standpoint, we're looking at the serve and return within those relationships.
• 32:14
  Cathi Spooner: We're looking at serve and return and sibling relationships, if we can kind of use that attachment term within a family systems.
• 32:23
  Cathi Spooner: Lens and when they're in the sessions, you are helping them to apply those skills that you've taught them.
• 32:35
  Cathi Spooner: You are helping them to apply those skills in the sessions, and then that's going to also be able to translate to home because parents are the therapeutic agents of change for their children.
• 32:52
  Cathi Spooner: Kids come to you once a week, maybe for 45 minutes to an hour.
• 32:58
  Cathi Spooner: How many hours are they not with you?
• 33:02
  Cathi Spooner: And of those gazillion hours, who are they with?
• 33:09
  Cathi Spooner: They're with their family.
• 33:11
  Cathi Spooner: So if we're thinking about maximizing impact, then.
• 33:17
  Cathi Spooner: Bringing, bringing the family, at least parents or maybe just siblings into the sessions, allows you to help them in real time, make those shifts so that they can continue those shifts outside of your therapy office.
• 33:38
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I like using an attachment and neuroscience lens.
• 33:44
  Cathi Spooner: And so here's the thing, when you're.
• 33:46
  Cathi Spooner: When you're using, when you're integrating parents into the play therapy session, or maybe even the whole family or maybe just siblings, you wanna make sure you're not doing individual therapy plus some other people in there.
• 34:03
  Cathi Spooner: When you're using a family systems or an attachment approach, it's, it's a fundamental shift in your way of being.
• 34:14
  Cathi Spooner: The play therapy sessions because your role changes, parents' role changes, client's role changes.
• 34:22
  Cathi Spooner: So you wanna make sure that you are using, uh, a family play therapy model.
• 34:29
  Cathi Spooner: So some of the seminal and historical play therapy models do.
• 34:35
  Cathi Spooner: Conceptualize the role of parents like Adlerian play therapy.
• 34:40
  Cathi Spooner: They, they conceptualize, what is that gonna look like from an Adlerian play therapy lens when you integrate family in there?
• 34:49
  Cathi Spooner: Gestalt Play Therapy, the same thing.
• 34:51
  Cathi Spooner: They, what is, you'll look at it using a gestalt play therapy model because they, they will look at the child within the context and there you can do family play therapy.
• 35:04
  Cathi Spooner: With Gestalt, I thera play.
• 35:08
  Cathi Spooner: It's just gonna be parent and child when you're adding parents in there.
• 35:14
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but it's a model, right?
• 35:16
  Cathi Spooner: You're using a specific model.
• 35:21
  Cathi Spooner: I like using a model that I created 'cause I need a little more flexibility.
• 35:27
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 35:28
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I wanted to integrate like a systems lens with neuroscience, with attachment theory.
• 35:36
  Cathi Spooner: So it's kind of a blending of the three things that are pretty heavily rooted in neuroscience and attachment theory.
• 35:46
  Cathi Spooner: And so that's, that's my attachment focused family play therapy model, which I'm gonna talk a little bit about.
• 35:51
  Cathi Spooner: I have a training coming up with that.
• 35:54
  Cathi Spooner: So that is it for today.
• 35:57
  Cathi Spooner: Let me do a quick recap.
• 35:59
  Cathi Spooner: Today's topic is why parent updates alone can't fix stalled play therapy.
• 36:08
  Cathi Spooner: The traditional approach for play therapy is using individual play therapy sessions and then those kind of quick check-ins at the end, or maybe once a month, parent only consultation sessions.
• 36:21
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and this might be the reason that progress is getting stalled is because even those monthly parent only sessions.
• 36:34
  Cathi Spooner: You're still getting secondhand information.
• 36:39
  Cathi Spooner: And so family play therapy sessions allow the ability in real time to see what's going on, what are, what are causing some of those miscues, what are, um, maybe ways the serve and return process isn't working so well.
• 37:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 37:03
  Cathi Spooner: And gives you the ability in real time to teach new skills that they can practice in the session with your support.
• 37:13
  Cathi Spooner: And then they apply those outside of the sessions in real time in their everyday life.
• 37:20
  Cathi Spooner: And now parent can be a, depending on who's in the.
• 37:25
  Cathi Spooner: Session.
• 37:26
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause I talked a lot about different scenarios where you can use family plate therapy, but that gives the ability for those things to be applied with family members in real time outside of your sessions because you are not going to be in their life forever.
• 37:45
  Cathi Spooner: You are a brief period of time in their life.
• 37:50
  Cathi Spooner: Hopefully, ideally parents and fam and siblings are gonna be there throughout their life, and so to me, when I look at it that way, family play therapy has the ability to systemically.
• 38:05
  Cathi Spooner: Create change that can be passed on to the next generation.
• 38:10
  Cathi Spooner: So that, and the key is though, the key is that you want to use a family play therapy model that is grounded in theory that will show you how to apply.
• 38:25
  Cathi Spooner: The theory in each stage of the change process, what is your role?
• 38:30
  Cathi Spooner: What is parents' role?
• 38:32
  Cathi Spooner: What kind of things are you gonna do in the beginning, middle and end stages of play therapy.
• 38:38
  Cathi Spooner: And so I like using an attachment and neuroscience lens.
• 38:43
  Cathi Spooner: That's my theoretical framework.
• 38:45
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I use attachment focused family play therapy.
• 38:49
  Cathi Spooner: The model that I created.
• 38:52
  Cathi Spooner: Um, to help me, um, through each stage of the change process, what's my role?
• 39:00
  Cathi Spooner: What's parents' role, what are the kids' role, what are we doing in the sessions?
• 39:05
  Cathi Spooner: When are we doing what?
• 39:07
  Cathi Spooner: In sessions, depending on what stage of the change process that you're in.
• 39:13
  Cathi Spooner: So.
• 39:14
  Cathi Spooner: That is it for today.
• 39:16
  Cathi Spooner: If you are interested in my attachment focused family play therapy model, I do have a training coming up and, um, on November 8th, so it's Saturday, November 8th, it's uh, full day training.
• 39:32
  Cathi Spooner: You can either join virtually or you can attend in person.
• 39:38
  Cathi Spooner: Where in person is gonna be in St. George, Utah.
• 39:42
  Cathi Spooner: So just so you know, St. George, Utah in the fall is so beautiful.
• 39:50
  Cathi Spooner: So if you've ever had a desire to kind of see St. George, Utah, or maybe you live in Utah or.
• 39:58
  Cathi Spooner: Nevada or Arizona or Colorado, all the ones kind of surrounding.
• 40:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and you'd like to take a trip there.
• 40:04
  Cathi Spooner: We do have the in-person version if you need the contact hours for play therapy.
• 40:08
  Cathi Spooner: We also have the virtual option, so if you're interested, you're gonna wanna hop over to my website at RH play therapy training.com.
• 40:20
  Cathi Spooner: That's renewing hearts play therapy training.com.
• 40:24
  Cathi Spooner: Go on to the training page, and then you'll see the attachment focus, family play therapy training.
• 40:32
  Cathi Spooner: You wanna make sure you register for either the virtual or the in-person, depending on which one you want to attend.
• 40:40
  Cathi Spooner: Registration for that is gonna be closing pretty soon.
• 40:44
  Cathi Spooner: It's gonna be closing on November 6th, so you'll wanna make sure to register before then.
• 40:51
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested.
• 40:52
  Cathi Spooner: Also, I have another, uh, training coming up.
• 40:56
  Cathi Spooner: It's a two day in-person only.
• 40:58
  Cathi Spooner: It's really small.
• 40:59
  Cathi Spooner: It's using a neuroscience and attachment lens with San Tray.
• 41:04
  Cathi Spooner: In play therapy, we do tons of San tray making tons of processing san trays.
• 41:10
  Cathi Spooner: I kind of think of it as like a little retreat like experience'cause it's very, very limited.
• 41:16
  Cathi Spooner: In size.
• 41:17
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause I really think it's important when you're learning San Tray and some of the, uh, using.
• 41:23
  Cathi Spooner: Sand tray with your clients.
• 41:25
  Cathi Spooner: It's important for you to get your hands in the sand and really understand how powerful it can be and how it accesses those implicit experiences that you did not even sometimes even remember.
• 41:39
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're interested in that one, I have some that training coming up.
• 41:43
  Cathi Spooner: I have some openings and play Therapy Academy.
• 41:46
  Cathi Spooner: I have two openings.
• 41:48
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're interested in getting, um, a lot of support to use play therapy, maybe you're pursuing your RPT credential, the registered play therapy credential, then Play Therapy Academy can help you to do that.
• 42:04
  Cathi Spooner: It's very small.
• 42:06
  Cathi Spooner: I only have openings when people are no longer in Play Therapy Academy.
• 42:12
  Cathi Spooner: So.
• 42:13
  Cathi Spooner: I don't have openings often, but they, they do come up periodically and now I have openings.
• 42:19
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're interested in Play Therapy Academy, then definitely hop over to my website at rh play therapy training.com.
• 42:28
  Cathi Spooner: Go on the consultation page, look for Play Therapy Academy.
• 42:32
  Cathi Spooner: Read a little bit about it.
• 42:34
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested, schedule a video call with me.
• 42:37
  Cathi Spooner: Schedule a 30 minute.
• 42:38
  Cathi Spooner: Video call.
• 42:39
  Cathi Spooner: We'll talk about what's going on with you and whether or not play Therapy Academy is a good fit for you.
• 42:46
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe you don't need Play Therapy Academy, but you really want some help in a community of support.
• 42:52
  Cathi Spooner: Then click on the wait list.
• 42:54
  Cathi Spooner: For Play therapy Elevation, circle that one.
• 42:58
  Cathi Spooner: I'm gonna be opening that one up for enrollment in January.
• 43:03
  Cathi Spooner: We're making some big changes right now to make it even better, so.
• 43:09
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested in attachment focused family play therapy, pop over to my website, sign up, register soon for the virtual or in-person.
• 43:21
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested in other things that I'm doing or resources, pop over to my website and I will see you next week.
• 43:33
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 43:38
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gained new insights and ideas to support your work helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 43:47
  Cathi Spooner: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 43:53
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 43:59
  Cathi Spooner: Remember.
• 44:00
  Cathi Spooner: Play therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth.
• 44:03
  Cathi Spooner: Whether you're a new play therapist or experienced, I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work in relationships.
• 44:15
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topics, suggestions for future episode.
• 44:20
  Cathi Spooner: I'd love to hear from you.
• 44:22
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 44:34
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 44:38
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning and growing.