Latest / Skin Anarchy / Alyssa Hardy, Author, Former Fashion News Editor for Teen Vogue and Senior News Editor for InStyle

Transcript

Alyssa Hardy, Author, Former Fashion News Editor for Teen Vogue and Senior News Editor for InStyle · Skin Anarchy

• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Hey guys, just a quick note.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to mention how obsessed I am with uh care skincare and floor water wipes.
• 0:43
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• 0:50
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• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: I can't tell you how many times I've used them before a meeting or before it or in a patient or you know just situations where you want your face to look at the future.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: So go to www.careskincare.com, check out their amazing line of products.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um Ricardo and some of the most amazing people, and I had the honor of introducing them a few weeks back.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're interested, check out that episode as well.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: But again, www.careskincare.com.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: Check it out and stay tuned.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Hi guys, welcome back to Speaker Anarchy.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: This is Ecta, and I have a wonderful guest today.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've really missed doing editorial interviews, so I'm very excited to have her on and excited that she had the time for this.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Alyssa Hardy, who is a former um senior uh editor and journalist for InStyle magazine, and she is now working on a few projects of her own.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, welcome to the show, Alyssa.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited you're here.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for having me.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's truly my honor.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited to talk to you.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: I really have uh missed talking to editors and journalists.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really excited for us to have a little conversation about um, you know, obviously your career is where I want to start, um, and then anything related to beauty.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: So can you get us started by maybe talking about your journalism, um, you know, just the whole career journey uh in journalism and what really got you into fashion and uh the industry?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I kind of had like a non-conventional way into media, but um I actually started in beauty because I my first job out of college was at a beauty textbook place company called called Malady, which is pretty much what all the cosmetology schools use.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I was an editorial assistant there while I was waiting tables.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And during the day I was working, you know, 30 hours a week as a editing books and working with authors that were typically hairdressers and makeup artists.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, and so I actually I got the opportunity to work on like pretty much there's like a big book that's like the full curriculum for the year for cosmetology school, and it's called Standard Cause.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the author for the year that I was working there was um a hairstylist named Ted Gibson.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Ted was like, you know, really, really heavily involved, and he saw how much I like fashion and how you know my passion was really clothing and style.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he asked me, you know, he's like, Yes, this is a beauty book, but like we do need someone to style it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because of course these are a lot of portraits, but you know, when we do the final shots, we need the models to be wearing earrings and cool collars and all of this stuff.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that you should style it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so that was a really big opportunity for me because it is a I don't I have don't have it in front of me, but it's like a 600-page book.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a two-month-long photo shoot.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just, you know, he really he was very like involved in high fashion things at the time.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um he yeah, he really introduced me to a lot of a lot of fashion things and kind of gave me a confidence that you know, even though I didn't have a traditional background in fashion media, I went to like a state pool and have an English degree.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that I actually could be involved if I wanted to.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's really cool.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, he is amazing.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he really believed in me when I was like really young and maybe probably didn't even really believe in myself.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um I do owe a lot to him.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: But he so then from there I started pitching um a lot of outlets that you know I didn't really know anybody, but I was kind of cold pitching, and I that's when I started writing for Teen Vogue, and um eventually I was writing for their fashion vertical pretty much every day.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was writing fashion news for them.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: So how was that?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like, did you like choose like you wanted to know uh more about fashion?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: So you picked that route for um journalism, or was it just something that you kind of fell into and you really enjoyed it?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think I always really loved fashion.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I it was always my thing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was always obsessed with designers and watching runway shows and like you know, just consuming every like before social media, all of that stuff, like just consuming every like I this is aging myself a little bit, but there was this thing called fashion TV, and I used to watch it a lot and just be so obsessed with like watching runway shows and like you know looking at all of the cool stylish girls, and I just always really connected with clothing, um in a way, and yeah, and I think I just like talked about it a lot.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I mean honestly though, because I then that's really why I ask you because I feel like fashion and beauty go so hand in hand because like I'm very I was very similar in the sense that like like I was watching the runway shows before we even like you know what I mean, like before like you said, before social media was a thing, you know, and like yeah, I felt like a dork.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I bet you nobody else watches this, like other than like a handful of people.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's really cool.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think like in you know, it's funny you say that because it's like my first fashion week fashion shows that I ever went to, I actually was reporting backstage with beauty reporters, and I didn't care that like you know, I knew stuff about beauty because I worked on textbooks, but I didn't like have the same passion for it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, I it was so it was all in the same realm, and I really loved the artistry.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just being backstage is like such such a thrill.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and when I was, you know, younger, just being able to go back there and like hear about the hairstyle and like why, you know, why we picked this high pony and like why we're doing a winged eyeliner because it went with this look and you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I really, I really loved it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's honestly how I started like reporting on fashion shows and stuff.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: I really love that.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that, you know, like I'm not gonna lie, like when I think about um, you know, especially like looking at magazines, I remember like being really young and looking at like, you know, when everything was in print and like looking to the magazines.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna lie, like I got so much of my like own makeup inspo from like the fashion, like centered like pieces.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: It was like I would look at the clothing and I would be like, oh my gosh, like I love those colors, like, you know, I've got those would be cool eyeshadow colors.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I totally know what you mean in the sense that like, you know, it's I I think when you fall in love with fashion, it's just like that's a whole different, you know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I I yeah, I get you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I want to actually ask you a little bit about the journalism aspect for uh especially fashion because I've never really understood the differences, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm not in this field, so like I don't understand how like what like what is like the like the traditional like you know article that you would do about like a fashion uh like a fashion article.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like what would you write about typically?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like today.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, like these days, like what's like the norm?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you know, it's so funny because it depends.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I do, I do, I will do a lot of reported pieces.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um like, you know, I writing about some like using data about TikTok.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I write a lot about ethics and sustainability.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm often looking at at a lot of data around that sort of stuff and interviewing people, interviewing like psychologists and experts in you know, carbon emissions or what or whatever that story is about.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I am doing a lot of reported features in that way, but I also do a lot of like essays.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I personally try to stay away from doing a ton of trend stuff because I did that a lot in my early career, and you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but but I do think that we have gotten to a place um where we rely on trends so heavily that it's just really about um making more money and buying more things now.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think trends have become about just things.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so for me personally, I I try to stay away from doing too much trend talk because I think that's a good thing.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that is such a that is an excellent point though, honestly.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm so glad you said that because you're right.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I think like that applies so much, especially to like skincare, you know, keeping it like on that point for just the podcast reasons.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I think the whole idea of trends, like it's really um kind of seeping into the space as well.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I really hate saying that because it's like it's like what you said.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, it's not about always making money, it shouldn't be, but that's really what it comes down to.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, you know, I always wonder because I've never looked at um, I'm not gonna lie, like I I've never looked at editors or writers as the reasoning for it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: I've always seen like you guys and your role as more of like you guys talk about the things that like are really actually cool, you know what I mean?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I look more towards influencers and I'm like, well, these are the ones that are like propagating trends, and you know what I mean, like that kind of thing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: So so it's just like very, very interesting that point because you know, I I hate that skincare has become a trend rather than like an informed area, you know?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know what's so funny you say, like I I literally went to Sephora earlier today because I wanted, I needed I wanted a face mask, and I was looking through and I was in midtown and I walked in and there's like all these celebrity brands up front.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I I like I don't even know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Selena Gomez and uh Addison Ray, and there's all these celebrity brands that I'm sure are great, but it was like as a consumer that doesn't have a ton of knowledge in that space, I was like, there's too many options.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I want to take a really quick break and mention that this episode is sponsored by BoSha, and we are very grateful to them for this opportunity.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: And if you haven't heard of BoSha, they were actually a leader in clean beauty since before it was a cool thing to talk about on social media, and I'm talking like this is in 2002.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so you know, just to give you a little bit of background, um, BoSha is a line that really empowers plants to do their jobs um of formulating with ingredients that are rooted in nature to create this plant-to-bottle formula system, and this provides really gentle and effective results.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Now, the best part is that because their products are have always been vegan, cruelty-free, um, always had no chemical preservatives, no artificial um fragrances, colorants, none of that bad stuff, their products can genuinely be used on some of the most sensitive skin.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: So whoever you are, regardless of your skin type, I think this is a brand that can really resonate with you.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I want you to genuinely go check them out.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: So bocha.com, if you go to bocha.com, they've been very kind and offered our listeners 20% off their first order.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um when you go to checkout, you can type in the letter W, Skincare Anarchy, all one word, at checkout, and you'll get that 20% off your first order.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: I really hope you guys check out the line if you have not already.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, just I mean it like it's one of the best brands I've ever used.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it was there when I knew nothing about skincare.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: So um, yeah, check them out.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: They've stayed tried and true to their vision.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, I really consider them something that, you know, a line that is irreplaceable and incomparable in this market.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: So again, bocha.com w skincare anarchy is the code for 20% off your first purchase.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: And now I would let you get back to this great episode.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, guys.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: Well, also, like, how do you feel about this?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know if you're I mean if you're comfortable commenting on it, but I really want to know, like, from an editorial standpoint, like all the all the brands that are coming out like that, like the celebrity-inspired brands, like how do you feel about those?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, you know, I think as long as there is a purpose for it, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it's I I feel uncomfortable when something is just about making money.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's like if to to just put more stuff into the world with with the only purpose of like making some corporation a bunch of money, I don't I don't love that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um, if there is a purpose to the to the brand, then you know, I think that's that's great.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily have um the most educated opinions on it because I don't I don't know the products very well, but but it does seem like there's a lot.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't even realize how many there were until I walked in and I was like, wow.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: No, there's so many.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like I genuinely like, you know, and just to like like comment on that, I agree because like it's really is about I feel like making money with that because I'm not gonna lie, just because you're putting a celebrity's face on something doesn't mean that it's the most efficacious thing or it's the most like you know, um, bang for your buck kind of like product, or you know, it it really does not mean that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I hate that you know, celebrities just like are jumping on this boat of like, okay, well, skincare's a thing now, so let me just come out with a line, you know.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like with makeup, I used to understand that because I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I I really do want to know what JLO's like you know, favorite shadow is, you know what I mean?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, but then again, like on the flip side, there are some really great ones, though.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna lie, like Victoria Beckham, I feel like is like amazing.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm glad that she came out with her own line.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, there's like certain ones where I'm like, I'm like choosing, picking and choosing which ones I like, you know.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I think I think that's part of it too, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think there is there's room for certain things where it's like you these people have their fans trust them, and there's value to that, right?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're they're saying, like, trust me, this is something that works, and you hope that that's actually the truth because they have millions of fans that are gonna trust that that is what is working and they're gonna put their hard-earned money toward it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I think that JLo's skin looks amazing, so I would trust that.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, I know, I know, but like it's like when I remember when like Kylie's skin came out, and you don't have to like comment on this because I know this is like your area, but like for me, I can honestly tell you like when Kylie's skin came out, I was literally looking at like like the most annoyed face in the world.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: I was just like, Are you serious?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're yeah, like first you told the world that your lips were naturally like that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: Now you're telling the world that your skin is like that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what do you think?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because she's got such a following of like, you know, younger, a younger audience.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what worries me is like, you know, I'm not a I don't have a problem with people that are a little more mature in the industry coming out with these brands because at least I know that their their following is based off like, you know, just a different demographic, like it's a wider audience, you know what I mean?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: And like more, I think, educated.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: But I think especially for like the younger audiences and the younger um celebrities, like they need to be a lot more mindful because you know, it's like you're working on something you're doing something that's it's gonna be impacting very impressionable people, like you know, young minds are like clay, you know, the way you mold them, they're gonna mold.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I don't know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: I just I I try to like tell people like don't go by that because that doesn't tell you anything about the brand, you know.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_04: So sure, sure, sure.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's I yeah, I want to actually ask you one question that I'm really curious because I love that you have a fashion background.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: And um, for me, I'm curious, like, how does it work in the like you know, um, backstage with like when people are doing makeup and like the artists are doing the makeup and stuff with the clothing?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, have you like can you describe that whole process?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because I've always been so naturally curious.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, uh, you know.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: I just you mean like at a fashion show?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like at a like high profile fashion show.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how does that work with like the makeup end and um you know?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so usually usually what happens is the um the makeup artist that the lead the for hair and makeup and nails, and sometimes their skin too.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um it just depends on who's sponsoring the show.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you usually it's like you know, it's a it's a key artist from Bumble and Bumble or a uh key artist from Makeup Forever or whatever whatever it is for that particular show.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: They go, you know, they work with the designer, they kind of like develop the look um before the show, of course.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then they sort of write it down and every there's all these tip sheets, which like I don't know if they you know, obviously we haven't had fashion meets for real since 2019 because of the pandemic, but there was like every every show has like a tip sheet of here's exactly how to get the look, and it's got all the products, and it's so you know, when a beauty writer does write it up, they're linking the products and whatever if it's Moroccan oil, they're making sure that they link, like you know, the the flicked back pony was done with this Moroccan oil hairspray or whatever it is, yeah, and that's all on a sheet.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I can remember, especially being younger, and like when backstage beauty reporting was a little bit different than it is now, where we would literally just write out the look.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would be walking around with like a stack of hip shape.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're just like you're getting one from the nail artist, you're getting one from the makeup artist, you're getting one from the hairstylist.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and then usually, you know, it's like the one key, and then all, you know, tons of other hair and makeup people that are just doing the exact same look on all of the models.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, like the key artist is kind of walking through the journal, walking the journalist through the look as they do it on on one of the models.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: That's really cool.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I didn't know that they had that laid out already because like I'm not gonna lie to you, like I'm truly like very like gullible.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I like really believe, like, you know, like the stories you'll hear.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, I love Pat, for example.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: Pat Pat Grath is like, yeah, you know, like my dream guest for this show.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: But like, I you know, I love how she when she tells stories, sometimes she's like, Yeah, well, you know, I had to like kind of come up with what I wanted to do, and um, I've always like felt like that's what they end up doing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_04: But but then I didn't know that it was so laid out and it was so organized, which makes more sense, obviously, you know.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right, of course, and then there's always like a little place with the product because it's usually it's usually a sponsored thing, it's not it's not um, it's not like random makeup artists are there.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, and then you know, with skincare, like I have been to shows where there is a skincare sponsor.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like can't think off the top of my head what kind, but like the models will go get um facials or whatever, like masks done before they get their makeup on, and that's like the role of the the skincare.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's pretty cool though.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I want to actually I want to ask you more about yourself though, because I I want to know more about you and like I know you're branching out into different things and you probably can't comment on them, but just you know, your experience in this industry, like how's that been?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, really like where like you know, what has that led you to, like your own personal journey, you know?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because I know that obviously every career has that, you know, aspect where it's like you do it, and then you're like, well, I want to do this now, you know.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: So can you like you know talk about that a little bit and tell us a little bit about that?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you know, I love fashion and I love writing about fashion and I love being around it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but something that kind of happened for me a few years ago was I started to really pay attention to um the sort of not spoken about parts of fashion that are really bad, and that's like um sweatshop labor and um you know unsustainable practices throughout the industry.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I started to feel a little bit like we had this really glitzy and glamorous side that I loved and I felt so blessed to be a part of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, being at a fashion show, I just always had such like a thrill.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's something I dreamed about, you know, growing up.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get to be there and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe this is this is my life.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then I started to see that, you know, there's that side, this really opulent, beautiful side, and then this other side that we don't really talk about, um, which is that a lot of the ways that we make these clothes are happening because people are having their wages stolen or they're working in really terrible conditions.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes some of that glitz and glam kind of covers up the other side that we should be talking about and we should be protecting these people because they are mostly women and they're why we have clothes.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're like the challenge.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_04: I love that you're mentioning that.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: That is such a that is really really and I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: I just like I love that because you know I was talking to Robin Doyle, and that's really like genuinely Robin was saying the same thing about like skincare.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: She like left, like she was in PR and she loved PR, but she was like, Ector, like I realized that the people that are like that we're sourcing ingredients from and like the places that are putting in the labor, like they don't make any money.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: And like they're not, you know, like they're not supported by such a giant industry.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then she was like talking about how that's why she founded like beautyology.com because she was like, I wanted to bring notice to this, and like it's very hand in hand with what with what you're saying with fashion.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think this is it's very interesting that this spans across like so much, you know what I mean?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like fashion and beauty.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's it's any industry, really, like it's the entire farming industry, so that's our food, it's you know, all sorts of manufacturing in general.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But in fashion, it's particularly bad because I actually shouldn't say particularly bad, it's bad everywhere, but it's it's so huge because we have we make so much clothing in the world.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's you have all these fast fashion brands that are making clothing constantly, and just like we were talking about with these trends, like we have there's some brands that are making new clothes once a week.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the reason that they're able to do it and put it out for you know$10.99 for a pair of jeans is because someone's getting paid two cents to make them.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's it's such a huge, huge problem that is almost so big that you know, I think a lot of people shy away from speaking about it because it's it's so big and doesn't feel like there's solutions that can happen when there really are.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, so you know the the whole point of of what I was saying there was that I started to really just want to focus on reporting about those things, these types of issues, and speaking to the women that it's it's impacting.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's what my book is about.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like trying to help tell these these women's stories.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I can't wait.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: I can't wait.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: I can't wait to read that.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_04: That sounds amazing, genuinely, because I can honestly tell you, like, I I know a little, you know, from like my standpoint, obviously, like in rural India, it's very common for most people to have like like my parents were like this, like you know, you won't believe it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like my father had like he had one um suit, like a pant suit thing, and he literally would tell me like I would get it elongated every year as I grew.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because wow, that's yeah, because that's how they do it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, you you don't have money for clothes, you don't have money for anything.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's the rural India is not like you know what I mean, like it's rural, people don't have money to eat, and then you have all these like that's why when I look at our industries here, I mean, I'm very much on board with what you're saying because it's like you know, there's so much wasting of resources and there's so much manipulation and stuff that it's like, you know, you really do ethically have to take a step back and at one point be like, what am I a part of?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: And what what is happening and why?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and so I really commend you.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: I love that you're you know, really like you know, bringing this up because it's the conversation that I think everyone needs to have, especially like, you know, not just fashion, not just like makeup.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's uh you know, skincare is a huge space for it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: And like you said, almost every industry.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm really glad and I'm glad that you were talking about your book.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: Can you uh reveal what the book title is?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: If yeah, yeah, it's called Fashion Dystopia, which is pretty on the nose, but um, but it's it's exactly what we were just talking about.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's talking to these women.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've spoken to so many women, especially in in Los Angeles, because there are a a lot of issues in um the LA fashion district.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've spoken to women in Indonesia, I've spoken to women in Bangladesh, I've spoken to women in um just all like really all around the world that are working in this industry.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them are activists as well.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then it also speaks about my own experience in fashion and how you know the sort of things that I think we could be doing better and the issues that I've seen that we've all all of us working in fashion have contributed to and how we've contributed to maybe sometimes not even realizing we were.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: No, I mean I I really like that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I really, you know, I so many kudos to you for like really, you know, kind of putting this out there and really kind of taking action in the right direction about it because there's a lot of people that wouldn't do that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of us that we will sit there and we'll look at something and you know, it's like Gandhi said, like, you know, if you're a part of it, and if you're just watching and you're a bystander, it's the same thing as just, you know what I mean, as doing the crime.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, I completely I think that's a beautiful thing.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so excited that you're coming out with a book and everyone listening.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: I you better go and buy Ellis' book when it's available.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, I want to ask you though, like, was there like one moment in your career where um, you know, it kind of like clicked and you were like, I can't do this anymore, or was it more of like a it led up to this?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think, well, I think it definitely led up to it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: There was a few things.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was doing some marketing for a coffee brand.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't know what you know about coffee, but coffee is one of the earliest fair trade adopters because coffee farms have a lot of labor issues.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I started to learn about fair trade through that and then kind of was applying it to the things that I was thinking about regularly, um, and which obviously the fashion.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also had written a story one time about Top Shop.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was like a trend story shopping story, like just a look or I'm not even sure exactly what it was, but I did this story and then I got a very nice, honestly, email from a student who had been doing like a research paper about um about fast fashion, and they pointed me to some sweatshop issues, and they kind of just raised the question very politely, saying, like, hey, like I know you talk about this kind of stuff.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I also see your name on this article about trends coming from these brands, and I was like, oh that's true, and that's you know, that's true.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's totally like it's part of my job.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's something it's like very difficult to get around.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, it was kind of like clicked for me with the contributions of of people like me that write about trends and write about shopping, and um, and you know it's the same, the same thing in the beauty industry too.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when it comes to waste and that that sort of stuff.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and also it's like, you know, I really hate the idea of like, you know, with trends, sometimes I'm not even lying less.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like people are paid to make trends.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, you know, and it's like I'm sitting here thinking, I'm like, I'm not stupid.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're consumers are not stupid.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_04: We know that, like, oh, um, it just so happens that this comes out, you know, at this time.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, it's not yeah, and it's become so transparent that I wish people would just like forget it altogether.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: But of course, like as an editor and a journalist, like you have a job, you know, and you have to do your job and you have to, you know, um deliver on your timelines.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: And that's totally like I don't hold journalists or editors really that much accountable as I do like the actual publications.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's like yeah, you guys like it has that change needs to happen.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_04: And this is where, like, you know, I'm you know, I'm not trying to rant, but this is where like the whole inclusion and diversity aspect also comes in, you know, a lot because it's like if you have like people at the table that should be there from the beginning, you're not gonna have these issues later on, you know what I mean?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: So like, yeah, so I I I think this is such a like it's such an in-depth topic, and I love that you're starting this conversation because I mean, honestly, I don't know a lot of about fashion, no know a lot about fashion, sorry.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's really interesting that this is happening in that industry as well.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then obviously beauty, and you know, it's just it's across the board.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, um, I wanna um I wanna actually ask you though, like in terms of fashion, one thing I've never understood is like how do you report about certain like for example, like I know there's a lot of designers out there, and I know a lot of the stuff that you see like runway shows, it's like just not practical.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like you would never wear that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, what is like how do you report up those topics?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you know, yeah, I think you so the thing the thing to it's there are certain websites that certainly will will talk about each individual fashion show.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, you know, in the websites that I've worked for and the magazines that I've worked for, like there will be times where you're writing about an individual show, especially if you're getting an interview with a designer.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, not everything that goes on the runway makes it to market.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um things change as well.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, like they work with retailers and um change it so that it's it's things that like customers will actually buy.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they're buying ready to wear.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're not necessarily literally one-off.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So those big, like amazing Valentino gowns that you're seeing, like those are not going to go into a store.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not possible.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know really know it.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do they even buy stuff like that?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's certainly very wealthy people that do.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_04: I look at them and I'm like, this literally looks like I mean, it's beautiful in terms of art.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_04: Don't get me wrong.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm not taking anything away from that.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: But like, I'm like, I wonder if they even sell that, like, you know, anywhere, even if it's like a one piece.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, because it's so funny.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's these brands, they do have like these, you know, very wealthy clients or uh famous clients that will, you know, come in and wear the couture dress to I'm not even sure where they're wearing it, but probably places that you you know we don't see.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, there is somebody, there is somebody buying it, but but you know, to that, it's kind of what we were saying earlier.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many shows.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and why I think I mean, I think it's just about selling things.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think there's no reason to have five shows a year.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: No, there's absolutely no reason.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: And also, like, I think that takes away from the artistry of it, if you ask me.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like sometimes it does.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because it's like you're just doing things so often that it's like not cool or not interesting anymore.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, and I think I see that a lot.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, that I feel like that statement is really like again that applies to everything beauty, skincare, fashion, technology, like everything.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like, if you just, you know, and I don't know, I wish I had like, you know, a solution for like all this redundancy, you know, but there's none.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know why it's still being propagated.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's one of my biggest problems, you know, with this industry is that like, you know, unfortunately, I like for example, with skincare, you know, I'll see like, okay, it's a serum or it's like a toner or something, and it's like the same product, dude, like as like 18 different companies made.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then you'll see, you know, editors that like they'll just write about it.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, why, why even like don't even do that?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because the more you do that, the more it's like urging small businesses to start forming and making the same stuff.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that that's something that like for me, like I really want to put that out there because I think we all have an ethical responsibility, and I mean we don't need to keep making the same stuff over and over again, you know.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And as you know, we're saying, like, as a consumer that doesn't actually know the difference between three different serums, um, it it can be really confusing, and that's why you go to that trusted space, that trusted influencer, the editor, because you're like, well, I don't, I don't know.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna buy what you tell me to.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: No, absolutely.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's and honestly, that's all I I've always seen editors like that, and a part of me is just like kind of irritated because like I know a lot of editors have gone down the influencer paths, and I'm just like, okay, you know, I I like a lot of them, but then sometimes I'm like, I don't do that, you know, because you're above that kind of thing.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, it's that's just my opinion though.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: But I I agree with you.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think that there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of editing, you know, for lack of a better term, that needs to happen with like, you know, what's being uh put into magazines and what's being like really um propagated and advertised because, you know, like we just talked about, it's a lot of redundancy and it's a lot of like, you know, it's just stuff that's not really making anything better.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really coming back to the point that you were talking about in terms of sustainability, in terms of good practices.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, we can't change that if we keep encouraging people to create lines or brands that are feeding the system, you know what I mean?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like this cycle, like that's it's never going to end.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you like like there's so many people I know that look at um online, like they'll look at Instagram or they'll look at, you know, these new brands and the big, oh, I want to be, you know, I want to be part of that one, I want to make a lot of money, and they'll come out with like a seriously, like exactly the same thing.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, yeah, gosh, you know, that just needs to end.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, and you know, there the beauty editors that I know are like incredible and they are have the most amazing taste, and I would trust them like with anything.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, tell me what to put on my skin and I will do it.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, I think a reason the reason a lot of people go the influencer route, especially from media, it I it's really hard in media, and it's you know, the pay is not great, the hours are difficult.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people ha see an opportunity in in the influencing way that they can like do do more and have better opportunities.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think that that's why you see that happen a lot.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I can understand that.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we all have to make a living, you know, and I I totally get that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, this has been awesome, Alsa.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_04: You're so cool.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: I love that you're doing your own thing.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: I love that you're like such an advocate for something so morally and ethically, you know, correct and you point in the right direction.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think that there needs to be more of you in those words.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: We need more people like that, you know, because I I I think what the points that you brought up are things that are definitely just not talked about enough.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm super excited about your book.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and everyone listening.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm gonna keep you posted on when it comes out.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I, you know, I can't wait to like read it and see all the brilliant things you wrote.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much for your time.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_04: This was fun.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I had a great time.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: And everyone listening, please leave some comments, some feedback on the art, and um definitely uh let us know uh when Alyssa's book comes out how you liked it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 38:04
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