Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 206. Investing in Leadership and Training Great Managers with Jim Pape, CEO of The Arcticom Group

Transcript

Episode 206. Investing in Leadership and Training Great Managers with Jim Pape, CEO of The Arcticom Group · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Jim: I want to be the employer of choice. I want to have great benefits. I want to have fair compensation, but mostly what I want to have is I want to have great bosses. I want my team looking at that guy standing next to him on the counter. And I want him to say, no, I really like my boss.
• 0:01
  Trevor: Welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host Trevor Matthews as a former technician turned entrepreneur. My goal is to really help train you, educate you and mentor you in the commercial refrigeration industry. Each week, I'm going to have top guests from technicians to manufacturers, to experts around the world to really help us grow and learn together by sharing their knowledge in commercial refrigeration, commercial HVAC, and not only on the technical side, but really the professional and the personal development side as well.
• 0:03
  I'm really excited that you're here. Now let's get a conversation going. Welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast. I'm your host, Trevor Matthews. And I want to thank you once again, for taking the time to listen to the podcast, sharing the podcast, sending reviews, comments, and even email me. Like this is why I continue to do this.
• 0:04
  They try to bring you some of the top guests from around the world. And really just to share the knowledge in the refrigeration industry. That's what this is all about for us to learn together and to grow together. I have a special guest today. Uh, really had a conversation a couple of weeks ago.
• 0:05
  Actually last week we dove into a conversation. I'm like, this should be the podcast. Cause it was such a great conversation and I'm excited about the. The conversation today, because he is uber successful. Uh, he has been building some amazing refrigeration companies and has been growing the refrigeration industry for the past seven or eight years.
• 0:06
  And I've been in the industry for decades. He's the CEO of the Articom group. The tag group, Jim Pape, super excited to have you on. I am really honored to have you here reaching out and having our conversations already because I see what you're trying to do in industry by having the top leadership in the industry.
• 0:07
  I had Scott on here. I had Adam on here and just listening to their leadership skills. That always comes from the next level up and moving down throughout the organization. And I work with a lot of your technicians who are just so awesome. Uber successful as well, Jim, welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 0:08
  Jim: Thank you so much, Trevor. As you know, I've been excited to earn my way onto your podcast, man. We're, we're really, uh, thrilled with what you're doing for our, uh, our community across the whole industry, man. So, so again, thrilled to be here. Thank
• 0:09
  Trevor: you so much. Why don't we dive into a little bit about your history because I thought that was really interesting.
• 0:10
  You started in aerospace and you worked your way up through different organizations and now you're running one of the biggest refrigeration organizations in North America, potentially the world. Um, and I'd love to hear a little bit about that backstory. Well,
• 0:11
  Jim: thanks. I, I, um, uh, I'm old enough that that story is, is longer than I'd like it to be.
• 0:12
  So I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you a condensed version to, uh, make the content a little bit more interesting. So you're right. I did begin my career in aerospace. Um, I was a mechanical engineer, all things mechanical, right? I wanted to work on cars. I was a card guy. And so I was trying to find a way to pursue an education.
• 0:13
  Um, but I wanted to keep working on stuff. Just period. And that extends through today. When I look out my window today, I see buildings full of cool mechanical systems, and that's how I see the world. And I think that's how a lot of us kind of got into the space we're in now is because that's kind of the person we were at some point in our lives.
• 0:14
  So I have this degree in mechanical engineering, went into aerospace, went through a career. in aerospace, where I never really was focused on being an engineer per se. I always wanted to be in technical sales. I was, I wanted to be out with customers. I wanted to be on the front end of the business, but I had to earn my stripes.
• 0:15
  And so I had to go do engineering work and I worked in some really big admired aerospace companies and the kind of companies, and it, it's relevant to today, the kind of companies that have the, The budget to invest in people, right? The kind that have the budget to invest in training, the kind that have the wherewithal to understand that if you can continue to build people up, that what you'll have at the top of the pyramid will lead you to good places in a business sense.
• 0:16
  And so had a privilege to do that. But that was in the aerospace industry. Fast forward to, I was in an executive education class at the University of Michigan and I didn't have an MBA. And at the time that was, if you didn't have an MBA, you couldn't go anywhere. And, uh, we've gotten past that. The whole world's gotten, thank goodness, we've generally gotten past that as a, as a, uh, hiring community.
• 0:17
  But at the time that was the thing. And so I was in this executive education class and I was in there with all the senior leaders, just totally by of Johnson Controls. And in fact, Alex Molinaroli, who went on to become, you know, chairman, CEO of Johnson Controls and other dudes are in that class. And those classes are hard and you wind up forming kind of foxhole friends, right?
• 0:18
  You get, you get pretty close and it was them and me and I was this aerospace guy and these guys from. You know, the mechanical services world or in that case, but it was way pre, you know, York or anything. So that was they were a controls company. And at the end of that class, they said to me, swear to you in the rent car bus on the way home.
• 0:19
  A couple of those guys grabbed me and said, Hey, we really like you. Um, we know you're an aerospace guy, but we've got a company in Southern California, a branch that's never done well. And we, we think you'd love it. It's super complicated. Um, there's a service business and there's a construction business and there's a retail parts business.
• 0:20
  And we do solution, um, uh, performance contracting. That's based on financial outcomes where we finance outcomes for customers. And he described all these things that they did out of this office. And I was intrigued. I was, I was just intrigued. And I said, I'll tell you what, I'll go, I'll go meet the guy in Southern California that you want me to go meet.
• 0:21
  And I went and met this guy. I went to the Johnson Controls branch in Cypress, California and late nineties. And I walked in and I loved everything about it from the minute I walked in. It was a people business. Um, it was, uh, complex. Um, they were just everything. Everything about it. I just enjoyed. And so I joined Johnson Controls.
• 0:22
  I started as a branch manager for Johnson Controls in Southern California and was able to move up the ranks there at Johnson Controls. But I'll never forget my very first meeting I went to with an all hands meeting with all the technicians. And I walked in and I sat through their They're part of the agenda in an all hands meeting, and I realized that, well, these are just geeks in hard hats.
• 0:23
  These guys are smart as can be. The things they were working on were, it just blew my mind. Any perception you might have had of what the word technician implies, well, just throw it out, right? It's because these guys were so smart, and the top of that food chain were guys that blew me away with what they knew.
• 0:24
  So Johnson Controls for a couple of years that went pretty well, um, wound up, you know, turning some businesses from, you know, kind of went worst to first, um, in the world of the Johnson Controls ecosystem and got a phone call from the train air conditioning company that said, we heard you're doing okay over there.
• 0:25
  Why don't you come do something bigger? Now, again, that was pre York and JCI. So that was going from a controls company to an HVAC company. So it was bigger. And they said, we're starting up these regional teams and come be vice president of the Western region for the train commercial air conditioning company.
• 0:26
  I went and met with them and it was love at first sight. In fact, everybody that was on that team from my leader and john Conover to the members of my other members of the regional vice president community that they were building or investing in at the time. You think of it, they built a bunch of businesses up and had to invest in a management layer to go run those.
• 0:27
  And that's what this point in time was. And everybody that was in that ecosystem at that time, we're all still in touch. We talk, you know, it doesn't never a week or two goes by where we don't all still talk. It was one of those places in time where you knew you were onto something great. And all the different leaders had different superpowers.
• 0:28
  And we re, we respected each other's superpowers very. Well, and and we're comfortable and and no egos in the way of leveraging each other to make train commercial systems better. And we did that. The business boomed. It was it was just an absolute gas. And so that's that was my, my introduction to the space.
• 0:29
  So up through train and then Ingersoll Rand acquires train Ingersoll Rand owns Hussman refrigeration. And I wind up as the leader of the field teams for the Hussman refrigeration and train commercial systems combination, which is a famous moment in the refrigeration industry that most people might remember, and we'll call it, um, an idea that didn't work.
• 0:30
  Well, um, it had great merit and PowerPoint. It did not have particularly strong merit in action, and it didn't it didn't go perfectly. But that story notwithstanding, and I will point out, uh, Hussman's doing great. Um, you know, Tim Figge, who was with us on that team then is now the CEO of Hussman, and he loves to point out to me routinely how really great they're doing since, uh, uh, since I left there.
• 0:31
  So we didn't, we didn't damage them for all times, but, but that's when I first got my eyes on the commercial refrigeration business. And I started going out and meeting with, meeting with retailers. And meeting with service companies, and that's where I spotted the idea for this company, quite frankly, and that stress between the retailers who were rapidly consolidating and becoming bigger and more complicated and bigger.
• 0:32
  And more complicated and bigger. And you got it even more complicated. That progression was profound. And the way I would see it was I'd go see wonderful top tier number one in their market, um, refrigeration, uh, service companies. And they would say, we can't work with this retailer, this retailer, or this retailer, because we can't get paid.
• 0:33
  And I kept hearing that over and over and over. And I thought, at the time, if all honesty, I thought somebody, you know, somebody should go solve that. Um, and I, I, I wrote down on a piece of paper, somebody should go solve that. There's a real business opportunity there to help those great service companies get paid.
• 0:34
  Come together in some way to be able to professionalize enough to meet the complex requirements of those retailers. And so that was the business idea for the Arctic on group. Now, in fairness, a little bit of time went by before I figured out that that was actually something I could go do. And so I'll skip the intermediate points and just say that I wound up working for a company called the filtration group and filtration group.
• 0:35
  Was a, a private capital backed aggregation of filter companies. It's been very, very successful. And I joined that at a time where we were planning an IPO, and I thought this was going to be my, my big IPO moment. And, and so I went there, but the thing I, it was a great company, I had one of the most respected leaders I've ever had in my, in my career, a gentleman named Steve Felice, who would, who had been, You know, number two in command at Dell computer.
• 0:36
  He was just an amazing, amazing guy to be around and learned a lot from him. But one of the things I also learned is how the private capital markets worked. And I realized that you could actually go build this company. And so that the idea to go build this company was good enough and that there was people out there that would invest in it with excitement.
• 0:37
  And so that was when I had the, Oh my goodness, I can really go do this. Then the hardest sale of my life. Was going to convince my wife that I'm going to take a year. And you've been on this road before is, is go to, I'm going to take a year and I'm going to go see if I can make this work and happen. And I will tell you, we closed our first acquisition on December 27th of my year of, uh, my calendar year of discovery.
• 0:38
  So I took it right to the end, but I'm pleased to say we started with our first company and I had a. I had a really nice list of what I knew to be the top tier refrigeration service companies, particularly in the West, but in other places, the country as well. That came from my collaboration with some other guys.
• 0:39
  In fact, when I, when I first, um, when we were first getting this going, there was a gentleman by the name of Ken Grott, who was an Ingersoll Rand employee who knew this space well, and he had the same idea. And so we collaborated for a bit, Hey, And put together the ideas and, and, uh, and we got it going and we got our, got it to off the ground, made our first acquisition of PMC Southwest, which was PMC in Northern California, Southwest Refrigeration in Southern California.
• 0:40
  They had just come together as a, as a combined brand. And then we acquired them. They had a Tremendous service company that was, had amazing people in it. And that was a very fortuitous first acquisition because that set us on our course. And yeah, that's, that's kind of the background and how we got to where we are to, to the beginning of the Arcticom group.
• 0:41
  Trevor: Yeah. I love that. And I want to go way, way back when, when you said that you were in aerospace and you made that move is that the first thing that I heard was curiosity. A lot of curiosity on with the Johnson control movement. This is what I talked to a lot of people. You got to be very curious on this stuff.
• 0:42
  And the next thing that I heard is you set a goal, you know, a goal that you didn't think was probably outside your realm, you know, can I go and do this? You had that idea. And that just gave me the chills thinking of it, because this is it. A lot of you that are listening there, you might have this idea.
• 0:43
  It might not happen right away. Just like Jim said. But he worked towards it, kept the idea and seen the opportunity and then went after it. I love that. So I think that was a, that's a big thing. You took a whole year. What a risk that was with your career, because you could have still, because you were being very successful in the organizations you were in.
• 0:44
  Continuing to grow and getting leadership skills and, and running teams. But now you took that, that time to, to really set your own path and your own direction. And this is why I really talked to technicians and people in my, my community is that you got to have that direction was the big thing in that first acquisition, you know, maybe let other people that are, might be going on this path, uh, maybe own their own company, want to start their own company.
• 0:45
  What was that one thing that, that really was like, okay, I can do this.
• 0:46
  Jim: Because I had been in the multi site mechanical services world for a while, I had a strong confidence in I can do it. The, the hard part is, how do you put companies together, grow them, and build a culture that maintains what made that company and that team great in the first place?
• 0:47
  And so I did have some benefit. of having watched other consolidation efforts in the HVAC space, particularly fail, quite frankly. You know, I've seen people try and build consolidations for the right reasons, for maybe good market driven reasons, just like we are in retail refrigeration, where the market is clear that the customers are consolidating.
• 0:48
  We, we literally have to come together to serve them. It's not an option. And so I've seen people fail. And so for me, it was about Having a playbook that says, finding people that want to be part of what we're building, having the courage to not mess it up. And that means don't go in acting like you're smarter.
• 0:49
  That means don't go in to a great company and give them a list or a playbook of this is how we do it. Right. And I've saw, I just saw People, I saw groups after groups, try to run that play where the theme of it was, we're going to put these companies together and they're going to be great because we're smarter and that is crazy.
• 0:50
  Talk to me. Those companies are great. The challenge is taking great companies, putting them together and take what made them great and leverage that across the community to build a common culture. So our strategy became clear and most of our leaders can say it between an elevator and that's. We find great companies that want to be part of what we're building.
• 0:51
  We, we, we don't screw it up and don't screw it up means be willing to listen to and understand what made them great. In our case, for the most part. Now we, we, we do change this as conditions apply, but we don't change the names of the companies coming in. Cause we don't think it's important. We want them to have the swagger that they had, that they built, um, in that market.
• 0:52
  And so, so we want to not screw it up. And that just means don't. Don't, don't, don't hand out a thousand page list of rules for how to become an Arcticon Group employee. And so it's more about listening than telling. And then, and then that, and then the third thing is just leverage the connections to get, to get better for everybody.
• 0:53
  Because when you get in the room, there's something, everybody in the room is doing better than the other guys. And if we'll all do what they're doing, and we're all open enough and willing to listen to say, you know what, purchase order processing the way you're doing it, That's, that's definitely better.
• 0:54
  Let's all do it that way. Or, or in the field, if we're talking about a dispatch protocol, or we're talking about an SOP mandate, or we're talking about a safety approach to a safety issue, there's somebody doing it best. And if you'll share that across each other without interruption. Without friction, then you get the benefit of all that and all those people, they get two wins.
• 0:55
  They get the benefit of being part of the community and culture that they grew up in, and they get to be part of a bigger team that has some leverage and some, I don't want to say clout, but it has some, has the ability to help influence outcomes and be part of this, call it the new economy that's developed in the world of retail refrigeration.
• 0:56
  Trevor: Does that make sense? Yeah. No. And it's putting yourself out there and putting the work in because a lot of, I've heard, I've heard it many, many times. Oh, well, you know, they're running the business. They're not doing too much. The CEOs of the company of the ones that I know, and the people I talked to are the hardest, almost the hardest working people in the organization and build leaders around them who want to work just as hard or harder.
• 0:57
  And that's, that's, that's The culture, right? Because people want to build great companies. Now you guys own, I think over 20 different companies. You started with your first one. It was a 2016 or 2017 around that time. First one. Now you have over 20 and continue to grow and you expanded into Canada. Now want to talk a little bit about that.
• 0:58
  That must've been. Probably not the easiest decision because there's a lot going on when you're purchasing another company in from another country. I'm sure tons of lawyers and stuff. What was that? And why did you to take that angle to move into Canada?
• 0:59
  Jim: Well, I mean, first of all, those are common customers.
• 1:00
  I mean, outside of, you know, Sobeys and Savon, which we don't see below here, the rest of the retail refrigeration community there is, is our, there's a lot of same people. Yeah. And so there was customer connection. You think at the time. CBRE was managing Walmart business at the time, both in Canada and in the Western US.
• 1:01
  I mean, it all looked like one customer to us. Um, and so, and so the customer reach felt perfectly common. You do have to, as you pointed out, your, your native country must be treated like a separate country and you have to be respectful of that and not take it lightly. So that does mean a little bit more legal.
• 1:02
  Um, you know, so a little harder to close a deal. Yeah. But for the privilege of getting to say that we're an international company, it's a hundred percent worth it. I mean, I, I love to be able to say the Articom group is an international, uh, mechanical services company. So, but yeah, no, it was, it was really about the, you know, we met John DeVita and the team at CT control temp, uh, they're in Vancouver and they had, uh, um, uh, three brands.
• 1:03
  CTR in, in, in Alberta and, uh, IHM and, uh, plumbing brand and, and CTR, CT control temp in BC and big respected company, um, Hill Phoenix dealer, um, great relationships with our customers, big service company hit on everything we're looking for in an acquisition. And so there was really no reason not to. And I think, uh, Um, you know, the boundary of that border is, you know, now in fairness, we acquired it during COVID.
• 1:04
  So the boundary of that border did seem a little more formidable than it needed to be. But the way the business operates today is, you know, it's, we're all one team. They're on the same systems we're on. We're speaking the same language. They, they, they see the same data we're talking on. Our account teams are integrated.
• 1:05
  In working on our big macro accounts. And so I, you know, we, we have a single leader in Canada, and that's the lesson I've learned over the years of having Canadian enterprises, which is don't treat it like it's just another piece of the United States, because I know that won't work. But so knowing enough to invest in just a little bit of extra cost to make sure that you.
• 1:06
  Treat Canada and run Canada respectfully. Uh, it was all, it was all positives for us, a hundred percent, all positive. So yeah, we're 20, we're 20 percent Canadian today. And I think, as I mentioned to you before, if you, if you population adjust that, that makes us very, very important in Canada. We're very proud of that.
• 1:07
  Yeah. Plus I love, plus I love going to Vancouver, man. All I got to do is. Those guys just, just sneeze. I'm up there. I like that.
• 1:08
  Trevor: And while we have some of the best technicians in the world in Canada, so it's a no brainer to get some companies here in Canada. That's for sure. And there's
• 1:09
  Jim: no joking aside. You think of the CO2 revolution and what Canada has already been through.
• 1:10
  It's no secret that an awful lot of our knowledge and experience in the CO2 migration is coming from experience that we now have with a really big team in Canada that we're there and we're part of. Watching co2 kind of take over the footprint. And so it's a, it's a very important connection. And now we have Fraser Valley refrigeration up there.
• 1:11
  So big admired refrigeration company. And so commercial refrigeration, HVAC plumbing, um, uh, Fraser Valley, Also, uh, owns, uh, owned AccuTemp, a residential, uh, business, our only residential company on Vancouver Island. And so, so we really got a very, very strong footprint of refrigeration and services side HVAC work going in Canada.
• 1:12
  It's a, it's a, it's a good thing.
• 1:13
  Trevor: That is amazing, right? I work with quite a few people out of those organizations, which is super cool. And, and that the growth of the business is going to continue. And once again, it's trying to find the people who care about the industry, who want to put the work in. And, you know, it's all like you said earlier, and I really, another word you said is the culture, right?
• 1:14
  And this is what companies are looking for. The three things that I talk about all the time that I work with contractors on is profit, culture, and retention. You know, and this is what I look for, for it to work with companies and work with contractors, because I think it should be the, at the forefront culture to have people who care about what they do.
• 1:15
  Our job is not super easy as technician in the field. We all know that, but when you're around people who, who care, you got support that really makes a team and makes somebody. Want to stay at that organization? What are your thoughts on? Um retention because you've been doing you got 2000 plus employees, you know people have to come and go Uh, people don't have the same Values maybe as what you guys are trying to to do.
• 1:16
  What are your um, what are your thoughts on your the retention rate now as well as Hiring more people because everyone I talk to owns refrigeration business are struggling to get technicians good technicians You New technicians, mediocre technicians all around. It's tough. Uh, what are, what are you seeing out there and what are some of your thoughts?
• 1:17
  Jim: Well, uh, uh, obviously a number one issue in the business is retaining the talent. Um, before I answer that question, I'll tell you a short story. I had our lead sales trainer who you've met, Jason Fay, and we had Jason come here to Walnut Creek, um, and teach refrigeration 101 to all of the headquarter staff.
• 1:18
  Now, that's some accounting people and finance people and, and nobody that was going to go home from that meeting and fix anything, but people that I felt needed to hear what, what the business is about. Jason built a beautiful class, came to town, did a four hour stand up for us in our, in our conference room, and by the end of that, everyone in the room, their hair was blown back.
• 1:19
  They had no one in the room. Now, I'd like to think, I'd like to think I was the star pupil in that class, but, but I don't come from this industry. I don't have the same, the same, you know, I was never on the tools. And so, Um, so I was in there learning and, but what that class did was did a really nice job of impressing and all of my senior managers, the ones that aren't from this industry and the people here with how unbelievably complicated and how unbelievably specialized what we do is the idea that being mechanically Um, sound and interested is just table stakes.
• 1:20
  Then you've got to understand thermodynamics and then you're going to have to, you're going to have to go into electrics and you have to be able to read a wiring diagram and then you're going to have to be an electronic controls expert along the way. You're going to wind up being a pretty darn good plumber.
• 1:21
  And by the end of it, we're What you are is a combination of trades that doesn't exist in anything else. I came from train. I we've had journeyman Um chiller mechanics who are great journeymen Chiller mechanics, but I would argue what our guys in this space have to go do and learn Is at the very top of the challenge pyramid for building and growing so Your question was about retention.
• 1:22
  The way you retain them is you recognize that you make training absolutely number one in your life, along with a couple other number ones. So we all, all of us in the business, you know, um, Todd at Climate Pros and the folks at CoolSys, and they've all got their training schools. Many of the local union locals have really good training schools around the country.
• 1:23
  You were just at the, Pittsburgh one, which is spectacular. There's one here in Concord. That's amazing. And so there are the, and so that ecosystem has to be there. And so it has to be about skill training. And that's obviously where you've, you've found a, uh, an opportunity in life is to be part of that, that mentor program for, for getting convincing people that this, this path is worth it.
• 1:24
  Um, the next thing you have to do for retention is you've got to have good managers. So when I was a train, my office was above the retail sale, a retail parts store, and there was really goofy acoustics and I could hear every conversation from my office. I was VP of the Western region, but what I heard all day were technicians at a retail parts counter, and this is back when train was going hard and in retail parts.
• 1:25
  And, and so I'd hear these stories and I'd hear about these guys. They all hated their leaders. So they all were. You know, their managers used on call as punishment and they were, they just, it was just, I just hear horrific things. And I just developed a thesis then and there that, that if you could make middle management, if you can make first line supervisors good, maybe not even great, but give them something to work with about being good leaders, that that'll drive retention because people don't quit their companies.
• 1:26
  They don't quit the job. They quit their leader. Their manager is who they quit. So retention is. is really about investing in middle management. We have a management development program. We built ourself. I'm very, it was the first thing I started spending money on was getting first time supervisors and middle managers into a program.
• 1:27
  In fact, there's one going on right now in the next room. Um, I think we're up to having done, you know, a couple of dozen classes, two different versions of this. And so I would tell you retention of anyone, but in particularly in this field, labor world, where managers just, they need to be good communicators.
• 1:28
  They need to be fair. Um, uh, you know, in fact, if they, and they need to be technically smart, they need to understand the rigor of the, of the day and they've got to be committed and all that stuff. But so putting some effort into that is, uh, uh, been a really, really big part of, of helping us. stem attrition.
• 1:29
  We measure attrition in two ways. We measure, of course, raw attrition, and we also measure what we call unexpected attrition. So people that surprised us by leaving. Sometimes someone resigns. You knew that Maybe it's a retirement. Maybe it's a, um, uh, someone who was, uh, already going away or for different reason.
• 1:30
  And so we measure how many times somebody left us that surprised us. And we track that percentage very closely and hold it very seriously. And if I see numbers popping somewhere that look weird, we're right on it. We survey all of our people, um, every year and we take those surveys, um, to heart. And that's a culture survey is what that is.
• 1:31
  And we're measuring engagement. And so we're measuring our employees resonating. Are they, are they fond of, are they proud of the brand and the company that they're working for? And, and, but we get that data. We've got, we've done, uh, Our first survey went well, the next one moved up. So that's a good sign.
• 1:32
  The best data is when we can see by business or by location where there might be a little bit of a problem. And, and then the trick is to take action, right? Don't be, don't be soft, right? Be willing to go say, I know this. Person's been here forever, but maybe, maybe it's time, right? Maybe there's somebody needs to, we need to make a tough decision here.
• 1:33
  So I think having the courage to top grade and, and, and do those things, particularly in that middle management role, that's what I think drives retention. I want to be the employer of choice. I want to have great benefits. I want to have fair compensation, but mostly what I want to have is I want to have great bosses because when it comes to that retail parts store conversation, I want my team looking at that guy standing next to him on the counter and I want him to say, no, I really like my boss.
• 1:34
  He's fair. He's he's we're hiring. My boss is fair. Sharp truck. He's got a nice uniform on. He looks professional. And that, that is that's recruitment and retention right there, man.
• 1:35
  Trevor: And I like that. And I think I totally agree. I've seen a lot of companies where they try to take the lead technician and just put them right into, uh, That leadership role, that service manager role, but they had no training.
• 1:36
  There was no development. They could have been the best service manager, but when you're just thrown in the role, I seen after six months of just leaving the trade or leaving that company, even though they liked that are pulling back and going back in the tech division. And I liked that you are. Actually working towards to develop them and you have programs where they'll come in and you start to activate them as that, because I was talking with Scott about it on the podcast, they'll, they'll start to intertwine the people who are interested and get them to start that role before they actually get full on that role.
• 1:37
  So it's not like you just jump into it. You go out and sit in the office, you take the calls, you get 14 different people screaming at you all day, potentially in that, that one hot summer day, because it's not now as a technician, it's just, you're looking after yourself. You know, and then when you're a manager, you got 20, 20 technician looking at you.
• 1:38
  Jim: Yeah, no, I to to continue to build and grow. We have to build and grow talent. And so that's relationships with trade schools. Um, and getting, you know, first look at the best candidate, the best people coming out of those schools. And so we've done that and we'll do more of that. Um, that alone won't make the census that we need.
• 1:39
  So we really do have to be the employer of choice. And so when there's disruption in a market, um, we need for the good people that are disrupted to, to want to be here. And so that's both those things have to be true for us to succeed. So training and be the employer of choice and, and, uh, That's, um, that's getting us through so far.
• 1:40
  The continued consolidation of the customers, which is leading to the continued consolidation in the, in the service provider space, it does change the game a bit such that in tomorrow world, there will be more, there'll be larger disruptions, and so there will be times when, you know, um, uh, one, uh, an Arctic comm group loses a bunch of stores or wins a bunch of stores and there'll be some market disruption.
• 1:41
  Um, those are, those are kind of new. The market disruptions of the past were ones, onesie twosie stores happened or, or different changes. And so there is a, there is a, a, a new thing kind of coming into the marketplace that is, I think, starting to be felt that does have an impact on that overall retention conversation.
• 1:42
  And it's, uh, I think it makes it Even more important for, well, you know, technicians either starting up the career or, or that master journeyman is that they really need to do really strong diligence on the companies they're looking at to make sure that, that they do have those things that I was talking about.
• 1:43
  Trevor: Yeah, you got to well positioned yourself and this is what I talk about a lot of a lot of trains you want to grow with people who have the culture who want to grow because you're right if all of a sudden, uh, one of the big companies, Costco's targets, Walmart's of the world, all of a sudden, just say in this area, we're all going with the one company.
• 1:44
  That other company, that might've been their only contract, you know, so this is something where you have to prepare yourself and look at that as a technician, because you've got to look out for yourself, but if you're with companies who want to grow, who are learning, who are growing, um, they have a good opportunity out there right now.
• 1:45
  The thing is, is that I got a question for you. I know you said trade schools and I talk with a lot of leaders like you, yourself from all around the world and refrigeration, I want to kind of know how, and maybe. An idea from you. How can we get people who don't know about refrigeration, getting them into the industry, you know, because this is it for 20 years.
• 1:46
  I remember when I started out, a lot of contractors were just switching journeymen, you know, and now we got a little void. We got a void in there in an age gap. Right now we've got technicians my age and then we got like 20 year olds and like early 30 year olds. So but there's this big there's this big gap What are your thoughts and what are the angles?
• 1:47
  Maybe you you're taking in your organization to get people that are not even in trade school yet Or don't even think about refrigeration. They open up the fridge. They pull out their drink and then it's just cold Uh, do you guys put any thought in that?
• 1:48
  Jim: Yeah, I'm, uh, I think all I can really do there is, is support the point that it's necessary.
• 1:49
  Yeah. Um, I would also add that I'm a, I've got a senior in high school that's my youngest is graduating high school right now. And so I know a lot of high school seniors by virtue of that right now. And what I will tell you is, I think the time is really right for us to push our message out there, even though I'm.
• 1:50
  I am a strong believer in college and higher education. You won't talk me out of that. By the same token, what I'll tell you is for, it is, it is less mandatory for that next job or an opportunity in life than ever before. And I think that this is a, I think we're, is a really, really good time for us to be telling our story.
• 1:51
  about how this trade is an honorable. This trade is complex. This trade offers opportunity that is virtually unlimited. You make it up to the top of this trade and you want to keep going. You can, because you, uh, you and I both know out of the top tier of these guys, they're There's, if you have the interpersonal skills and you have the business acumen or you're willing to go learn those things, you can do whatever you want in this space.
• 1:52
  And so, and that can happen fast. You, I mean, I've seen guys come in who have, You know, they've got the worth ethic, the inclination. They're willing to ask questions. They're willing to be professional. They're willing to go out on the job and anticipate that that guy that's brazing is going to need solder next.
• 1:53
  And he's got the solder in his hand and he's ready to hand it to him. He's he's someone who's out there being that person. Um, you can move fast. Up through the, through the trade, your compensation can therefore move fast. And when you get there, your opportunity, I mean, look at you, look at the guys you and I interact with, you know, Adam canoots leads our us refrigeration business.
• 1:54
  Um, uh, you've had him on that's, that's a story of a guy that, that, you know, and his story is not told. He's going to be, he's going to be running something really, really big someday. And so, um, uh, those opportunities are absolutely there. Back to the, how do we get to the, to the, to the high school kids, if you will?
• 1:55
  Um, I don't know the answer, Trevor. We've only gone as a company as far back as let's make the connections to the trade schools, but how we as a community tell that story about how cool this job is, where you, You get to be kind of independent and go out and solve complex problems on your own. Um, you're like a surgeon who has to go out there and go save the patient.
• 1:56
  You got to drive your own truck, um, to go save the patient, but be part of a bigger team, get all this technical expertise. It's such a cool journey that the people that punch into this are on. I, I think, I think what you're doing is starting to think about how we pull that Community together and tell the story better.
• 1:57
  So I decided to come on your podcast.
• 1:58
  Trevor: Yeah, no, no. And I love that. And for me, I really think that we have to come up with ideas, ways that I believe in higher education. I went to university before taking a trade, but I did, I really wasted most of it, honestly, because I was 17 years old going to university.
• 1:59
  I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I really think it, Everybody I know now, even the people that, uh, started in the trade going to university later in life is great. That higher education stuff, because now you're a bit older, you're a bit wiser and you focus on that. So my, my idea here is thinking like, how can we make it a mandatory to get into something for society in high school?
• 2:00
  So you've got to go, refrigeration would be great, but like working on the roads, working in something that. Uh, you know, help society out, they get that, those skills, those life skills that are made, they start to make money even in high school. And then after they get into a trade, we'll say they can stay or they can go to university.
• 2:01
  You know what I mean? How do, how do we do that? And there's no, it kind of like the army, you know, you got to do two years of the army. Maybe it's two years in high school of work. That's going to help grow our infrastructure, you know, across the world. I'm not sure your army analogy is going to attract everybody,
• 2:02
  Jim: but I, but I completely understand where you're going.
• 2:03
  And I agree with you. I think that, again, I think the opportunity is there to tell it. I think if you, I mean, I'm not solving any problems. We're just talking about them. But if you look at, let's say the arts community, um, where, where education At least American education system has a hard time maintaining funding for things like arts and physical education.
• 2:04
  Arts communities have done a nice job of coming together and finding the funding or producing outside funding to make Those training that take that education that part of education still in the curriculum if you will But if you go back to the days when I was in school You know, shop was a class. Lots of guys took it.
• 2:05
  Lots of guys went and took auto shop or metal shop or there was it was a class. I mean, you know, perhaps there is an opportunity for the industry to come together and do a better job of helping schools fund that because you can certainly understand how schools today are going to you're gonna have a hard time going in and demanding.
• 2:06
  Let's put in a, uh, A refrigeration class, where's that money coming from is the only question you'll get. So, you know, they're very well could be an opportunity there.
• 2:07
  Trevor: No, I just seen it even here in Canada, more and more people I talked to were pulling out of HVAC programs, pulling out of the technical trades across the country.
• 2:08
  There are certain pockets don't get me wrong that have it. But even where I was from, there was no, I think we had a woodworking shop in my school, you know what I mean? And you can't just, it's just, you can't just do it across a, uh, A full country. So there has to be different ways, but I think doing us coming together as a community, like all the different contractors, leaders like yourself, and there are large leaders coming to talk about this.
• 2:09
  Yes. You're a competitor, not competitors out there. And it's great. That's what we need. That's how you get better and grow. But we need to figure out ways together, manufacturers, And users, we all got to come together to figure out how can we help this industry out to continue to keep going? And I think it's going to be a lot of diversity, getting more women into the trade, which, which is great.
• 2:10
  I think there's a huge opportunity out there for us for different aspects and different, different people. That don't know about this trade yet that will want to come in. Cause this is a great industry. Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, and I really appreciate you taking the time and you're busy scheduled to chat with me.
• 2:11
  What are some of the next steps for, uh, the Articom group? And where do you want to, where do you want to go with it? Cause I know there's, you got a lot of ideas and we talked some stuff and I'm just blown away by some of the stuff you told me that you're looking for. But what are some of the next step that you can tell the listeners where you guys are going and where you're headed?
• 2:12
  Jim: Yeah, I think that's, um, uh, there's a, there's a certainly a, um, a good safe version of that. Um, no secret that the commercial refrigeration, retail refrigeration world is a, is kind of a, uh, scale and reach game or, or business. And so we're in a lot of cities, we're not in all. And so we're going to continue to keep, um, generally at the behest of either our customers Or through acquisition, we'll keep adding geographic markets, um, to get to, uh, um, where we can cover and support our customers from coast to coast.
• 2:13
  Um, and so we'll keep moving. So that's a, I think of that as kind of a pin in a map game where we're just going to keep going until we can say, yes, we are in, you know, name this city. And so there's a big part of, not a big part, but there's a, there's a decent part of our organization here that's focused on.
• 2:14
  Continuing to work on that. We're also, and as you know from my background, I'm a more HVAC than refrigeration guy. And so, um, you know, the HVAC market is bigger than the commercial refrigeration market, and it's, uh, and the platform that we've built, the, the tag, the Arctic on group operating system that we've built that all of our businesses operate on, it works really well for multiple different kinds of high complexity mechanical services businesses.
• 2:15
  And so we're not just a retail or commercial refrigeration business. So industrial refrigeration, we love that space. And so we're going to stay, we're going to keep growing there. And in the HVAC trades where we, uh, you know, where service and recurring, recurring relationships are important. And so that will continue to push there.
• 2:16
  We like the kitchen equipment commissary services world that overlaps very much with what we do. So we're already in that in multiple locations. And so let's say unitary HVAC is obviously a scale and reach game. And, and we think our footprint of scale and reach serves that market well. So we'll continue to grow there both organically and through acquisition, and we'll keep buying.
• 2:17
  Refrigeration companies and adding them to the group and making them part of what we're building. So, yeah, I'd say it's kind of more of the same. I see the world as, you know, there's some guys that some mentors that I had in this when devising this business and bringing it up. And there's some guys who've done it really, really well.
• 2:18
  And I mentioned before, there's some people that did a poor job of building consolidated companies, but there are some people that did it really well. Brian Lane at Comfort Systems USA. It's a really, really impressive guy. And I learned a lot from him about how to put together companies and maintain culture, but still get the benefit of, of what you're doing now.
• 2:19
  They went public and he'll tell you, um, don't do that. But he, uh, but, but nevertheless, the, uh, There are some, there are some good, admirable compares out there around what we're trying to build. So we'll just keep going down that path and view every major market as a place where we'd like to be number one or number two in the high complexity mechanical services world.
• 2:20
  We're not involved in the people mover stuff, the elevators and escalators. We're not involved in any of that stuff, but. But all the other complex stuff in the buildings you see out your window, I like it. Um, it's back to that thing that got me in it in the first place. I like working on stuff. And so I love the idea that buildings just get more and more complicated.
• 2:21
  Therefore the certainty that the world needs us is going up,
• 2:22
  Trevor: not down. I totally agree with you. That sounds awesome. Uh, Jim, any final thoughts? How can people get ahold of you, of your organization? If they want to find out more about the Articom group, if they want to get involved, or if they even want to ask questions, how can people reach out?
• 2:23
  Jim: Yeah, I think the website does a, does a, does a decent job of, uh, of, of pointing people to where they want to be, uh, hello at articom group. com email address. Uh, rings up in a, in an office right next to me. And so, uh, um, I'm easy to find. I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be super easy to find Trevor, so Don't, don't, don't do that to me.
• 2:24
  Yeah. I You'll find him on LinkedIn. They're been easy. Yeah. Like you said, I have a, I have a great team that I would like to be easier to find, but, um, but, um, but I'm always here for you, my brother. Oh, I really appreciate that. Yeah. No, but, uh, uh, yeah, no, we're, we're having a good time and, and really. Really excited about the community that you're building together by trying to drive skills in and in particular, the, you know, the natural refrigeration migration and what that means for skills migration that has to happen.
• 2:25
  It's a really appreciated. So thanks for thanks for having the courage to build what
• 2:26
  Trevor: you're doing. Thank you so much. And I really appreciate you taking the time. And this is what it's all about. People who care, who want to grow, who want to get better. And those of you listening out there, you can do this.
• 2:27
  If you, if you want to get better at your role, put the work in, just like Jim says, this is what it's about. Putting the work in, learning a little bit, growing a little bit and setting those goals. The first thing that I talked about is that curiosity Jim had, and then, then the goals that he set. This stuff is key to your success because in refrigeration, you can go anywhere in the world.
• 2:28
  I worked all around the world. I'm talking with the top guests and the smartest people in the world. I've got Jim on the podcast right now, chatting with him. So you can do this too. You got to put the work in, but set those goals. Be curious, uh, of it, Jim, any final thoughts?
• 2:29
  Jim: No, man, you know, we, we send smart people out in the field to solve really complex problems and it's fun to do.
• 2:30
  And it's fun to be part of that. And complex problems means every day is different. And it's, uh, it's fun to be part of. Thank you, Jim. Once again,
• 2:31
  Trevor: if you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone, you know, talk with your team about this and any ideas that you get and that you can use out in the field, because this is what it's all about.
• 2:32
  It's growing to get learning together, growing together, Jim, thank you so much. And I'll see you at the next Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. Thanks Trevor. I want to thank you so much for hanging out with me and the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a comment. Let me know what were your key highlights, what you took away from myself or my guests, as well as if you have not subscribed yet, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and subscribe.
• 2:33
  And if you enjoyed this episode, please share with a friend, let your friends know that there are people who care, who want to share the refrigeration information to help them get to the next level in their career. If you have not been to the refrigeration mentor website at refrigeration mentor. com, go check it out.
• 2:34
  There's a ton more guest podcasts I've been on as well as the event page. Check out the events page because there's a lot more free trainings. Well, it's paid training to really help you grow your knowledge base. Super excited. Can't wait to see at the next refrigeration mentor podcast. Let's get a conversation going.