Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SHOCK : 3 Tot Girls Drown Accidentally, NOW RULED STRANGULATION

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SHOCK : 3 Tot Girls Drown Accidentally, NOW RULED STRANGULATION · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Three little girls are dead.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Eight months later, we still don't have a suspect. Why
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: what is the problem in Cass County, Texas? These three
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: little girls ages five, eight, and nine. Not only they,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: but their mother needs answers. I Nancy Grace, this is
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. There's very very
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: little coverage regarding the deaths of these three girls. Why.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I would imagine the media would be on this like
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: a cheap suit. Why is that not happening? Why have
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: their death gone unsolved? Let's just start at the beginning.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Here's our friends at Crime Online. Shoanmanique Oliver Wickerson is
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a hard working woman. She spends her days taking care
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of her six children, the loves of her life. Then
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: she trades in her mom apron and puts on her
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: nurses outfit and heads to work with the second love
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: of her life as a certified Nurse's Aid. Her work
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: as a CNA is very rewarding and bravery. As her friends,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: caller loves the work. The Friday night shift is going
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: like many others have until about nine o'clock. That's when
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the nightmare begins and Shoumanique gets a phone call that
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: will change her life and that of her entire family forever.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Joining me right now is the mother of these three
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: beautiful little girls. And I say beautiful, I mean beautiful
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: on the outside and on the insight too, Miss Wickerson,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I know you're known
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: at work where you work as a nurses aid is
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Bree Bree. I'm just imagining you at work that night
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: with your colleagues turned friends when you get a phone call.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: What were you told on that call? Do you remember
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: being told, hey, you got a call three us. Now?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: When I got the call, the only thing my cousin
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: had said was that my kids were missing. He didn't
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: pul saying which hid or how many kids? He just
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: said kids, meaning me thinking all my kids. What were
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you doing at the moment that call came. I was
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: changing a resident at the time, and then you walked
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to the phone at the nurses station, just ma'am. When
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you got the knees from your cousin that some of
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: your children were missing, what went through your mind immediately?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Like how did they end up missing? When they was
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: in the house? Why are you just not calling me.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't you be calling on one one first then
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: calling me, Just all these thoughts colliding in your head
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: at the same time. When did you see the children last?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: When I called them around five or six o'clock that
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: they when I was at work and I talked to
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: my kids, they were sitting down eating in my room,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: watching TV on the floor. So this is in July,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the end of July, so they're on summer break. You
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: are all in your room, your bedroom at home, just ma'am,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and everybody's eating and watching TV, and you're all there
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: together before you go to work to give them. That
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: reminds me so much of growing up my dad, or
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: as he called it, the second trick, sometimes it was
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: the third trick, just depending on what he got that
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: week at the railroad, and we would all try to
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: eat quickly for him to go to work, or when
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: my mom would have to go to work at night.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just imagining that moment, and that was set around
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: five to six pm. Correct, That was the time that
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I was at word because I had left or work
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: around and wing to clomb that afternoon. Oh oh, you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: spoke to them at five to six on the phone, yes, ma'am,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: and everything was fine, yes, ma'am. Okay, what were they saying?
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Were they planning to stay at the house or were
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: they going to go outside and play go down the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: street to a friend's house. What did they say when
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: you talked to them between five and six o'clock. I
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: had asked them what they was going to do. They
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: was going to stand the house, finished eating watching TV
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: tangle Bow because it was getting dark. So they know
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: not to go outside when it gets dark. We don't
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: have a light outside, so they knew to say in
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the house. What were the ages of the children. I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: have a daughter that was ten at the time, a
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: nine year old, an eight year old, a three year old,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and a one year old that's five, and then I
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: had a seven year old. Okay, all right, so they're
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: all there and they know what to do. I mean
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I remember with both my parents working, we knew what
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: to do. We didn't go run around the neighborhood. We
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: didn't go right on our bikes. We stayed inside, had
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: the doors locked, did homework, took a bath, watch TV,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and waited for my mom and dad to come home.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, we never really even thought of going outside.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: We knew were weren't supposed to, so your children understood
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: what to do, and you checked in with them between
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: five and six pm. Now, what time were you supposed
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: to be home that night? I postedly got off at
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: ten o'clock that night. And how far away was the
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: nursing home where you worked from your home from Atlanta
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: to Picture, Canada. I think that's not about a twenty
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: five minute drive, Okay, So twenty five minutes, so as
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: soon as she would have gotten home at best would
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: have been about ten thirty, yes, ma'am. And you get
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: the call from your cousin at nine pm, yes, ma'am.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Tell me about your drive home that night. I guess
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: you raced out of the nursing home to try to
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: get home. Yes, ma'am. I did. On the way driving,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I was like trying to multipash and not rick at
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: the same time. So I was trying to multitest on
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: one phone with the police on one line, and then
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: trying to call my aunt on the other line to
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: see if she can rush out there and meet me
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: there or go out there and look for them until
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I do. There. I was trying to pod between two
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: different people, trying to figure out, like, how did my
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: kids go missing? Who's missing? How many are missing? How
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: do they get out of the house. They knew you
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: not to get out of the house. You had a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: babysitter there watching them, So what the hey happened? You're
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: calling nine one one. I'm surprised you didn't just run
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: off the road trying to get home, but you got home.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: And it's hard to tell police my child is missing
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: when you don't know is it one, is it two?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Or all six? Gone well? And they were just there
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: at six pm when you were on the phone with him.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Three hours later they're missing. How did that happen? Guys?
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Jason Jones joining us out of Texas. By ten
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: pm that Friday night, deputies from the Cass County Sheriff's Office,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: wardens from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, and fire
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: rescue crews from Cass County Emergency Services District Number two
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: mounted a search for the children, and by now everyone
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: involved is looking for three little girls, nine year old
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Ziaril Oliver, eight year old Amya Hughes, and five year
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: old Tomorrow Oliver. Shelminique has made sure her other children
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: are fine and where they belong. With all the manpower
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: on hand, a search inside and outside of the house begins.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: We now know that the case has been handed over
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: to the Texas Rangers, but prior to that, what was
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the information that led to the cog So we were
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Texas Day Warns perceived a call about ten o'clock on
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Friday night, a report of three children missing, and so
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: we gathered up our assets and went out to the
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: locate last known location of them. We brought in one
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: of our K nine units. That search led to a
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: pond which was about two hundred yards away from the residents.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Miss Pickerson, your children would never have gone to that
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: pond on their own. I'm sure from what I have research,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you made it very clear they were not to go there,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: and they did not go there under your watch. No,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: we never knew about upon being back there. And I
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: grew up out there in my whole life, so I
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: never knew it was upon out there. And my kids
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: wouldn't go in the field no way, because there are
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: animals out their cows and horses, so they never would
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: have stepped foot over there. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Join us now on Fox Nation for our brand new special,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Children of serial Killers, a Nancy Grace investigation. Parents by day,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Killers by night? But what about the sons and daughters
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: of brutal murderers? Are they forever haunted by their parents crimes?
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: What happens when they find out mommy or Daddy's a killer?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: In this new special, we investigate the lives of children
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: of serial killers, weaving the timelines of the parents' crimes
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: into their home lives. Speaking directly with sons and daughters
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: of serial killers, including the children of the Craigslist Killer,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: the Chameleon killer, and more, we hear from experts in
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  Speaker 1: the field. Don't miss this. Join us now for Children
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: of serial Killers and Nancy Grace Investigation, streaming exclusively on Foxnation.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Go to Foxnation dot com to watch Time Stories with
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know there's something called routine evidence with
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: me Jarrett Farentino, high profile lawyer out of the Pennsylvania
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Jurisdiction with poogli U, c Finnegan Schaeffer and Farentino Jartt.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. And when I say
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: routine evidence, I don't mean boring routine or typical, I
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: mean evidence of a routine, practically everything Missus Wickerson is saying.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: It was reminding me of growing up in rural Georgia.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Across the street from our home and then across a
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: creek and then up a hill was a huge cow pasture,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: huge and there would be cows and sometimes bulls out there,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: and we knew not to go there, not to go
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: through that barred wire and try to pet the cows.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: We would never even think of it. And there were
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: ponds and streams everyone, and we knew not to go there,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and we didn't. So when I hear this mother of six,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: three of her girls now gone, did I believe her?
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Because I experienced the same thing. She said, they would
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: never go to that pond because you have to go
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: through woods and cows and this and that to get
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to it, and she knew her children. That is called
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: retained evidence evidence of the routine of the children and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Nancy missus Wilkerson, and I am I too, am sorry
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: for the loss of your children, Nancy. That would be
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: evidence that could be considered if this case is ultimately
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: presented in court. The fact that missus Wilkerson warrant her children,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: and her children knew not to go into that area.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: That is something that the district attorney can present and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: should the jury. Just another reason, another piece of this
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: puzzle that would suggest this was not a natural pathing
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in these children. They knew better. You're so right if
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: we ever get a POI person of interest or a suspect,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: much less a defendant. But what I'm saying is I
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: do not think that cops were led to this pond
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: without good reason. Guys, take a listen now to Lieutenant
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Jason Jones. And so there close to that pond, we
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: found a pair of tennis shoes right next to the water,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and so we we had the family members identified that
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: that was one of the little girl's tennis shoes that
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: was that was missing, so that that way we could
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: focus our efforts closer to the water's edge or to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the water. We actually found some footprints in the mud
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: leading into the water, so that that kind of narrative
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: searched down even more. Worker, Son, we are hearing Lieutenant
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Jones speaking, Do you remember when you recalled to identify
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: clothing and or girls to the shoes near the pond? Yeah,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: because when I got there, I heard my aunt them
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: out there in the field somewhere yelling for my kids,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and my older daughter had to show us where to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: go to get back there to where they was. And
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I've seen my daughter's shoes stacked up neatly beside the punt.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And my daughter don't never stack shoes. She would throw
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: them in the corner or something, but she would never
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: stack them on top of each other. Okay, well we'll wait.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I find that really interesting what you're saying. Lets you
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: mean the three girls she's were stacked on top of
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: each other, only one pair, and that belonged to my
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: five year old little girl, Tamari. They only found her
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: shoes out there because they followed us out there with
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: my older daughter Ya Maria. So when you say the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: shoes were stacked up neatly, what do you mean by that?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: There were stacked on top of each other. Chris crossway,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: my one point in one direction or one point the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: other one. But they were stacked on top of each other. Yeah,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you know what, people don't normally set the shoes down
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: like that. My kids never do that, never. What was
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: going through your mind? I mean, I can't even imagine.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I had one close call when my son went missing
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: in a babies or a superstore, And that was only briefly,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and I can still remember very clearly that the state
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I was in till I found him. So you get
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: there and you hear your aunt calling out for your children,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and I can only relate to losing John David and
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: a Baby's or a superstore, and was very brief before
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I found him. But I had my daughter Lucy under
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: one arm like a football and was running through the door,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: screaming to shut the doors and lock the doors so
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: nobody could get out with them. It's horrible. What do
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: you recall was running through your mind, your state of
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: mind when you hear your aunt calling out your children's names.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: My first thought was like, why is she even in
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the field calling for them? Knowing that they don't never
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: go in the field. It's kind of strange to me obviously,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: like why are you out there? There's no reason to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: be out there. And then that's when my daughter, my
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: older daughter, was explaining to me, that's where they walked.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: To Let me ask you a question. You say they
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: would never have gone out in the field, and that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you guys didn't even know anything about this pond. How
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: many children were with you, then you had three with
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: you and three missing. Great, okay, guys, The search then
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: takes a very dark turn. Take a Lis Snuffer as
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: a KSI. We've an update to a story that we
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: brought you over the weekend. Texas Rangers are now investigating
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the drowning deaths of three corals in Cass County. Officials
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: say they recover the bodies of nine year old is
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the Aeriel Oliver, eight year old Amya Harvey, and five
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: year old Tomorrow Oliver on Saturday morning near Cass County
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Road thirty three nineteen. This after they were reported missing
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: on Friday night. Officials say their bodies were found in
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: a pond at a neighboring property of where they live.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: We brought in a dive team to help search efforts
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: thunderwater rescue or recovery, and about two one or two
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: o'clock on Saturday morning, we located all three victims and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: so they've been all sent off to all talk seeing
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the investigations been turned over to the Texas Rangers and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: more from our friends at KSLA. Cass County officials are
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: still trying to figure out what led to the drowning.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Depths of three young girls and a private pond yesterday.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Officials say they recovered the bodies of nine year old
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Zare Oliver, eight year old Amya Harvey, and five year
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: old Tomorrow Oliver yesterday yesterday morning near Cass County thirty
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: three nineteen, This after they were reported missing Friday night.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Officials say their bodies were found in a pond at
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: a neighboring property of where they lived. Miss Workerson, where
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: were you when the girls bodies were discovered? Standing in
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: my yard close to the fence towards the field. What happened?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: We was just waiting there. They came a few divers
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: came back and we had asked them if they found anybody.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: They had told us no. And and then about forty
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: five and thirty five minutes later the chefs I think
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: that was came up and told us that he was
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that they pulled out a child's body worn out of
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: the pond, and I had them describe the person to me,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and it was my eight year old a Maya Hughes.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And then what happened? And then he asked me about
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: some clothes that was in the pond from jackets that
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: were tied up together. They was about five to six
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: feet into the pond is where he had colda and
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: he showed us pictures and those jacket were my kids
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: jacket but they were in the trash. Okay, wait a minute,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: The jackets were not in the pond. The jackets came
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: from the trash and somehow they ended up in the pond.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Why was the jackets in the trash because they were
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: too little. So the jackets you need, had been put
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: in the trash and they ended up in this pond. Yes, now,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and they were tied together. Man, I'm like a rope. Okay,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: So at this point, you've been told that your eight
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: year old Amaya has been found, you find out about
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: the jackets. When were you told about Zierio and Tamarium.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I was after they told me about Amaya I had
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I was took off to the hospital because I was
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: having a heart attack, so they end up taking me
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: from the scene and then I end up at the
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: hospital in Atlanta, and my aunt came and following it
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: behind afterwards, and I was later told about my earther
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: kids were pulled out. When do you remember the moment
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: they're in the hospital that you were told about Tomari
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: and zerialum briefly because they had to give me something
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: to sedate me. So it's like kind of a blur
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: after they sedated me to doctor Menesia Pandey, Chief Forensic Pathologists,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: LLC in Ohio. You can find her at the forensic
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: pathologist dot com. Doctor Menesia pande thank you for being
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: with us, Doctor Pandey. I know that it's true, but
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I've never understood how a shock or intense sorrow can
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: actually bring on a heart attack. It can happen. First
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: of all, this is a devastating though circumstances, and I'm
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: very very sorry man. So it can happen when you're
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: a beneffen. Your hormones they shoot up and it can
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: cause a lot of stress to the heart and then
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: you can get a heart attack from that, you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: doctor Pandey, I'm projecting, but I remember when my father died.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I had always had low blood pressure in my whole life,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: but within about a week of his passing, my blood
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: pressure shot up. It's never gone back down. How can
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: your mind or your emotions affect your body like that.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: You do, because there's so many hormones that clean when
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you're stressed and when you're exposed to such intense green
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that your body just sort of shuts down and it
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: starts attacking yourself. In this case, you get I mean,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: hart is one of the major organs, and then it stops,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: you know, and there is a lot of stress to it.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: You will have a heart attack. Time stories with me.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: It'sy grace to doctor Patricia Wallace also joining us UM.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: You can find her at doctor or pc Wallace therapy
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: dot com. You know, doctor Wallace, We've heard of people
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: dying of a broken heart. It was always said that way,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: kind of like an old wives tale, but actually it's true. Yes,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: but it is true. The body just begins to just
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: shift down and it's unable to continue its normal statterns
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of you know, blood flow, heart something. Yes, it's the grief.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: You're just the overwhelming sense of grief that in a
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: sense just shut the body down, you know, Doctor many Chapande,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: there's something about a shock. The only thing I think
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I can relate to is and when I first started
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: practicing law as a project here, I saw a lot
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of shocking scenes, but I can call it. My fiance
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: was murdered. I did not want to see his body
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: in a coffin, and I went to the funeral home
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and avoided it, but I did see a sliver of
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: his face and I passed out. I completely passed out.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: It was just I don't even remember passing out. Everything
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: just went blank, and when I woke up, a lot
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: had happened. I don't understand how, and to this day,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: don't understand how does a shock, a mental or emotional shock,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: affect your physical body. I still don't understand what you're saying.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: They're all connected, our heart, our minds, our whole bodies
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: connected to each other. So when we end such intense
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: griefs and such intense shock, our body shuts down. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: then because of that you need to pass out, or
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: you'll have a heart attack, or you know your body,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you'll just see it, or did you get a on
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a disease in terms of you can get high blood
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: pressure eventually, Miss Wickerson, I know I told you before
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: we started our program, but I just can't tell you
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: enough how sorry I am for what you and your
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: family have gone through. And to think that even now,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: this many months later, we still don't have a person
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: of interest, We still don't have a suspect, We still
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: don't have an answer to anything that has happened, Miss Wickerson,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: How did you realize you were actually having a heart
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: attack when they told you they had found Amaya in
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the pond? The reason how I knew is because that
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't my first one. That was my second one. I
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: had one back in twenty two when my mom passed
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: away from COVID. So I was already on heart medicine
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: at the time and I'm still is still this day,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: and I forgot to take my mead during the whole ordeal.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: So I decided to take you. It was kind of
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: already too late, Miss Peckerson. If there is anything we
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: can do to help you and help this case. We
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: all hear at crime stories and crime online at Fox Nation.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: We all want to help you. I want to go
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: forward with what we know about this case because the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: girls are fished out of the water. Chris Buyers joining
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: me longtime colleague and now friend, former police Chief John's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Creek twenty five years as a police officer, now private
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: investigator and poligrapher at Lancaster Services dot Com. Chris, thank
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. Absolutely absolutely give my hearts
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: up to Miss Likerson. Here's the kicker, Chris. The children
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: knew not to go outside, not to go in that field.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: They instinctively would not have done it. These three little
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: girls are not going to go through a feel full
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: of cows, through dances to get into some pond in
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the middle of the woods that the mom didn't even
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: know about, that they had never been to at all.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: They're fished out of the water and now we learn this.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our fens at kyt X. A
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: very sad update tonight on a story we first reported
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: on last summer. In July of twenty twenty two, three
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: siblings are putted missing were found dead inside a nearby pond.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: That news shocked the entire community in the Atlanta school
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: district where there's children attended class. Now we're learning the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Texas Rangers are investigating their deaths says a homicide after
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: autopsy reports returned showing evidence of strangulation. The girls also
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: suffered some lacerations to their faces. Authorities say multiple witness
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: statements have been obtained, DNA testing is ongoing, and that
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: investigation will continue if anybody has any information about their debts.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Called Texas Ranger Josh Mason at nine O three, two
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: five seven two seven, So let me understand something to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Dave Mac joining US investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: they did not die of drowning, apparently, Nancy. These three
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: girls were strangled first, then placed in the pond. Guys,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you keep hearing the word Atlanta and Texas Rangers. It's
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: because there isn't Atlanta, Texas. That's where this has happened
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: out in a rural area Atlanta, Texas. Dave Mac, would
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: you please repeat that again? I just need to let
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: it sink in what it's the most heinous thing as
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: these three girls were strangled and by the way, they
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: mentioned lacerations on all of their faces. They decutch lacerations
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: on their faces. Then they were strangled, then they were
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: placed in the pond. Chris Buyers, I do not understand
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: why this cod cause of death is just now being
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: released all this time. The media, the public, neighbors all
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: think the little girls wandered, even though mom is saying
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: they would never have done that. That's just like somebody
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: telling me John David and Lucy snuck out of the
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: house last night and went and hot wired a car
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: and took off and they're in New Jersey right now,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: that would not happen. She's telling us the girls would
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: not go there, and now we're finding out that they
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: didn't just go there. Mommy is right, they're cod It's
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: not drowning, it's strangulation. So now what do we do? Yeah? Absolutely,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And you know, the from an investigator side of this,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: as you know, well, times of the essence on these
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: cases and not just the physical evidence that you need
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to secure, but you know you're losing witness evidence, different
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: things as time goes on. You know, I'm sure the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: investigators kind of in the very beginning, if I were
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: to get the case, I mean, you start looking at
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: first thing you do is start looking at, you know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: sex defenders in the area and any tag readers you
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: may have out their ring cameras. Hey hey, hey, hey, hey,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: slow down, James Bond, explain what you mean by tag readers.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: So one of the things you know that's that's very
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: evolving in law enforcement now are tag readers. Some of
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: them can be mounted on patrol cars, some of them
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: can be mounted on you know, just a road sign
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: which records every tag that goes down that road. One
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of the first things that I would do, as an
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: infinite commander on a missing person, especially a missing childcase,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: would be to get all of my patrol cars heading
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: an opposite directions towards that scene that have tag readers
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: on it, to record every tag that comes through there.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: And then you can a bad database and you can
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: start to compare it to your sect defenders that are
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: registered in the area. You know, you're people that are
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: out on parole, and it's just a great quick way
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: to start to you know, really whittle down who your
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: suspect pool is. Okay, what about this, Let me throw
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: a wrench in the works. Chris Buyers with me, Foreign
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Police Chief John's Creek now at Lancaster Services dot com.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: This is a very small rural area. The population is
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: about fifty five hundred. Now that unless you're near a
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: big interstate, that greatly reduces your suspect pool. And I'll
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: remind you again in the case of Shasta and Dylan
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Grony who lived in Cordlaine, Idaho out I mean you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: fly over it, which I have done. You see nothing
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: but forest green, That's all you see. But they when
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you're an interstate and a guy driving a truck on
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the inner state looks out and sees Shasta at an
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: above ground pool from the interstate. He goes and lays
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: and wait. The family go to sleep, kills all of
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: them to take Shasta, and Dylan kills Dylon after blasting
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: both of them over and over and over and over.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: So what I'm saying that type of stranger on victim
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: crime can happen in a very very low pow population area,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: but it's rare. So would you agree with that, Chris, Yeah,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I would absolutely agree with that. And just like you said,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: it really narrows down your suspect pool. You know, with
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: even type of investigations, you always start within and then
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: you work your way out. And so just like you're saying,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: you're starting with you know that that small pool right
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: around where this crime happened. Who've had access to him
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: and who would have known about it? Let me ask
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you this right off the top, miss Wickerson, where was
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the bio dad of these children at the time that
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: they went missing. I don't have any communication with any
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: of them, So they were nowhere around, no mal and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: certainly not taking a part and helping you raise the children.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: No visits, no money, no nothing, no no no, And
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: here you are working at night as certified nurses aide
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: at a rest home to support the children. Is that correct, yes, ma'am,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: miss Wickerson. When you were told that you're three girls,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I initially thought to have been drowned by accident in
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: this pod, even though you kept saying that did not happen.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: When you were told they were actually strangled, what went
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: through your mind? My mind kind of went with when
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I was killing me this. They had to literally stand
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: in front of me because trying to get out the door,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and I guess they probably bowed that I was going
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to go, probably hurt my cousin or something, the one
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: that was babysitting that should have been watching them. Let
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: me let me ask you a question. When they first
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: told you that the three girls were strangled, put it
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: upon and abandoned, could you even believe it did not?
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: How many times did they have to tell you the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: girls were strangled? They kept repeating it more than five times.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: They just kept repeating it over and over. I asked
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you that from a personal experience, because when my fiancee
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: was murdered, I remember I would have to get the
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: days had passed, I'd have to keep going to my
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: mom and or my danger is Keith dead. He's dead,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Keith is dead. I couldn't take it in. What is that,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Doctor Patricia Wallace, You're the shrink when you really can't
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: absorb it, your mind cannot absorb it. What is that called?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Absolutely right? It's like the psychlogenic view where you just
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: go to blank. You don't remember anything, nothing related to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: that situation. It's like you can't believe it. Miss Wickerson.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to even ask the next
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: question because I'm trying to absorb everything you're telling me to.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Doctor Menicia Pandey, and all of us are here, Miss Wickerson,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what we are hearing. Doctor Pandey.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: If there were lacerations on these girls faces that had
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: to have happened before four they were strangled, wouldn't it,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Because once you're strangled and you've passed on, there wouldn't
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: be you wouldn't bleed right, There wouldn't be real evidence
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: of the lacerations. Would there ce lacerations, depending on how
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: deep they were, would have happened either at the time
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: or just before the time of death. Miss Wickerson, When
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: the girls were at the funeral home, did you describe
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: the lacerations on their face. Um, well, I couldn't really
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: see any lacerations on Tamari and the Maya besides the
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: both that lived. But on the Ariel Robinson, my older child,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: my nine year old, they had to reconstruct one side
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: of her face. Why it looked like she took a
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: beating on one side of her face and it tore
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: her ski and off, so they had to reconstruct one
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: side of her face. How so many people could have
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: thought this was a routing is really beyond me. But
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that said, Miss Wickerson, I have to ask you a
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: very difficult question. When the girls were found, were all
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: three of them clothed? Did they have their clothes on?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I was told that they did have clothes on, just
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: two of them did not have any shoes. Did have
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: clothes on? Yes, ma'am, Miss Wickerson. Do you believe that
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: any of your three girls that were found in that
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: pond had been molested at the time? No, ma'am, I
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: did What about now? From the autopsy and what we
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: were told by other Tension's rangers year, they weren't all three,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Miss Wickerson? Who was there taking care of them that
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: night while you were at work? My cousin tears pop.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Is that a male or a female? That's a meal?
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: And where is he right now? He will back with
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: his mother, Lamicia Pump. How old is he? Thirty one?
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Has he ever described to you what happened the night
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the girls went missing? He won't even talk to me
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: or nobody else. Did he attend the funerals? Yeah, but
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: he was sleep he was He was asleep at the funeral. Yes.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Has cops questioned him? No, His mom told him not
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: to talk to the police, and she told them to
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: stay away from him in her house. His full name
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: is Paris Pops Popps Paris are mern props guest, ma'am?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: And is he related to you or to the girl's
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: bio dad? He is related to me in what way?
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: His mom is my aunt and my mom and his aunt.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: And to this day he's never explained to you what
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: happened to night the girls ended up in that pond, No, ma'am.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Can the other girls describe anything or are they too
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: young to recount what they observed? My four year old
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: have already told Texas rangers that the girls went in
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the woods with Parish, and that came from my four
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: year old but they said she's still little. Where does
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: the case stand right now, Dave mac It's an open investigation.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Nancy and the Texas Rangers are asking the public for help. Guys,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: if you know or think you know anything about this case,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: please dial nine zero three two five five five seven
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: two seven repeat nine zero three two five five seven
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: two seven. No one has been named a person of
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: interest or a suspect yet, Miss Wickerson. Is it true
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: that you have been trying to reach the Texas Rangers,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: specifically Ranger Josh Mason, and you can I even get
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: a phone call back that is correct? What's happening? It's
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: like I'm trying to get I'm trying to ask him
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: if there's any news whatever they have. Can he speak
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: with me, give me some details or anything about my
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: kid's case? But it's like he's just dodging my calls,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: my voicemails. The prom victim lady also has message Josh
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Mason to call me, and he emailed her back and
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: said that he would, And that was back in January
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: and he still has not called to this day or
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: answered his phone. The only time I'll say he called
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: he called last week from an unknown number, but left
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: a voicemail asking me how people called me since they
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: did a press release, and then when I tried calling back,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: he didn't even answer. So he's concerned about media. Yes,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: she wants me to see if people will come to
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: me tell me stuff and I give it back to
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: him for its like they want me to do their
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: investigation for them. I mean Chris Buyers, former police chief.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: But I hear things like I'm hearing right now, and
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I've always had great respect for the Texas Rangers. I'm
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: embarrassed as law enforcement myself. It's embarrassing. Yeah, it's absolutely embarrassing.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Communication with the family, especially in crimes of this nature,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: is vital. Yeah, and I want to communication Buyers, but
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I want to suspect. I want to suspect at a trial,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: and I can't. We can't. We can't even get a
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: phone call. We wait as just as some faults. Goodbye friend,