Latest / Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered. / Beyond The Ceremony Podcast Ep 10: Working With Funeral Directors with Julie Sullivan

Transcript

Beyond The Ceremony Podcast Ep 10: Working With Funeral Directors with Julie Sullivan · Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered.

• Speaker 1 0:00 So welcome back to beyond the ceremony. I'm Laura Crockett, your host and one of the AMC mentors, and I'm joined today in the studio by the lovely Julie Sullivan from Julie Sullivan funeral directors. Thank you for having me. You are very welcome. Thank you for coming on. It's very exciting, and it's nice to see you got the blue and white memo too. Of course, we're very color vibrated today. I'm not in black. No, exactly, yeah, which makes a change, because, do you tend to wear black for all the funerals? Speaker 2 0:26 I We don't actually we wear gray, yeah, and my main conductor suit, which I did wear today, actually, but it's, it's a blue Tweed. Move away from this Victorian vibe, you know, the hat and the cane, absolutely, the long black tails. Yeah, try. But if somebody said to me, Julie, actually, I want you to wear blue. Wear blue. Great. Yeah, I can wear my dress. Yeah, exactly, yeah. You can whatever. And that's the thing. Speaker 1 0:47 We do. See a lot more of that. I was just talking to you before we started recording about a service that we're doing soon together. And, you know, she absolutely loved pink. So of course, I'm gonna wear a pink dress for the day, and we will, the very Speaker 2 0:59 least wear pink time, yeah, and we probably will stick with our grays, because gray and pink is nice, yeah, and it's respectful, yeah, it's not too sinister. Yeah, we don't use the cane. I do occasionally wear the hat, depending on where it is. Do I need to be noticed that I'm the conductor? Because otherwise, if there's a lot of people, it's very difficult sometimes to work. Who's in charge? We need to do something, you know? Yeah, absolutely so. But yeah, we're, we're aware, whatever. Speaker 1 1:22 Yeah, that's nice. I think as well, it's just things have changed so much now, haven't they? Like, when you think about, I don't know, the last 2030, years of funerals, look how different it is now. It's Wow, women conductors. Yes, exactly. So great to embrace having females in the industry. And even going back, really, to the 1930s Speaker 2 1:41 years ago, the lady would be behind the scenes, and they'd be responsible for the laying out of the deceased. Yeah, the conductor was always a man, yeah? And so you know, it to now sort of break through and have lady conductors, women owning businesses, yeah, running these businesses, it's great. And actually, why not? Because when we're looking after your a loved one, particularly a lady or a child, they want a woman. Yeah, that level of care Exactly. So actually, I don't know how, before this even worked with just a male, you know, male heavy industry, yeah. So, so we're seeing really good leadership in the industry. Women, running businesses. Women, pallbearers, Speaker 1 2:22 yes, absolutely. I've worked with a few of your team, absolutely. And yes, so girl power, yeah, absolutely. Amen to that. I love that. So let's take it back to the beginning. Then Julie, tell me a little bit about you. And you know, Julie Sullivan, funeral directors, obviously your name's above the door. So tell us all about that. Where did it all start? Speaker 2 2:39 Okay, so I always wanted to be a funeral director, even as a little girl, really, yeah, which is a bit odd. And so I didn't actually get able to be, sort of be involved in the industry. I actually met a funeral director at my neighbor's funeral. Okay, and he was setting up a business in Morton. He just overtake, he'd just taken over a business that was being sold, and I was introduced to him, and he said, Would you like to run the business for me? Well, at the at that time I was running, I was a business manager for a school, I thought, oh my gosh, if I give this up, I've never done this, but I wanted to do it. And I thought, You know what? I'm going to do it. Yeah, good for you. And that was it, really. So I ran a business for quite a few years, and sadly, he passed away. So at that point, then it was the right thing for me to do to set up on my own. Yeah, my son works with me. Yes, my brother Brian joined us last June from the fire service. So he is the one who's always very sensible and the health and safety of the industry, of our business. And Lewis also conducts as you know, he's amazing, and we've got a great support team behind us. So we I've been doing this for over a decade now, and I'm sure we'll talk about it, but things I've seen in 10 years, things have changed, yeah, but I'm just really blessed. I work in a great community with a lot of people that I know anyway. Yeah. So it's, it's, it is a, it's a great profession, yeah. Speaker 1 4:07 So you say you've always wanted to do it since being a little girl. Can you remember why? Like, what was Speaker 2 4:11 it? No, because I think the thing is in when you look at, say, on the TV, there's not a lot out there about death. No, exactly, very. I think Stacy. Stacy's name, Stacey Dooley, I was gonna say Stacey Solomon. Then that would have been a very. I'd have loved it, though. Well, she did something recently. Hardly anything out, yeah, about behind the scenes of what goes on. So there's lots on on having babies, but not so much on what happens, and we we've all got to encounter death and understand it. I was really interested in it, yeah, and it wasn't just a fascination with, oh, you know what's going on stores. I really was interested in it. And so it was a big jump of faith for me, a leap of faith to go from a secure job at a school to not knowing whether this was going. To work out or not. And I thought, if I don't do it, I'm never I'm going to regret it. And so it was the right time, and as a woman and say, coming into the industry, even 10 years ago, was quite big thing, yeah. And I also sort of on the back of that, so I run my business, but also I'm a funeral quality assurance assessor, so I work for a trade body. I don't know if you knew that. No, I did, yeah. So I go around other funeral homes and make sure that they are adhering to the code of practice. So important. So exactly, it's massively important, especially because, and again, I know this isn't part of our topic today, but there was a big issue up in home, absolutely, yeah, which is very distressing. And I think actually, you know, for anybody looking at choosing a funeral director, make sure they're part of a trade body, because you know, then that they have been inspected, ya know, that they're doing what they should be doing, yeah? So, so I do that as well on sort of as part of my my job. So yes, Speaker 1 5:55 I didn't know that, yeah. And I think, exactly like you say, because that is something that perhaps families weren't aware of all these things that they should be doing, or, you know, checking out, or how they can, I mean, how can a family know that they are in safe hands? Speaker 2 6:10 Well, make sure that that your funeral director, that you choose is part of the trade body, and the trade bodies are safe, yeah, and the nafd National Association funeral directors. So make sure that they are one of those. If they're one of those, it means that they've been inspected by somebody like me. Yeah, they are adhering to a code of practice now, just recently, on the back of Hull, most of us have also had a inspection from your local county council. Yes, great, which hopefully, if they found any issues, they will have been ironed out. But just in the first instance, make sure they're a trade body. And you know what? I mean, we're really lucky because we're in a really small community, but if you've got half a dozen funeral directors on that high street, go in, talk to them, yeah, absolutely. And find out. You know, are you going to be greeted with a nice smile, smiley face, and you feel instantly, you know, relaxed, or are they a little bit, you know, closed behind code, you know, and not not being treated how you want to be treated? Yeah, absolutely. Because the point is, if you're not being treated out of front correctly, then you start to wonder, then what's going on? Yeah, you know, Speaker 1 7:15 so, and it is, it's really important. Yeah, I think so about that. No, definitely. And I think that's the thing, it can be such a scary time for a lot of families, you know, this might be the first time they've ever Speaker 2 7:26 had. Wow. How often do you arrange a funeral? Yeah, lucky. Yes, you know. And things do change. So what I was doing, even 10 years ago, to what I'm doing now, is really, you know, different, yeah. So, so talk to me about that changing landscape then, I mean, we've got a question later on. Yeah, talk about, but what do you think maybe in the last 10 years, how have things changed? Well, obviously women becoming, you know, the forefront of the industry is right, having women pallbearers, having women celebrants, you know, and directors. The Biggie, I think, is the Direct Cremation, which I know that is, it was on your agenda. I can talk about Yeah, that's okay, yeah, talk about it now, yeah, yes. So Direct Cremation, I don't even think was a thing. No, I can't remember it being a thing sometimes. So Direct Cremation, for anybody that doesn't know is, is where nobody attends the crematorium. So we will take your loved one from our premises to our local crematorium. And that's something as well that you need to check out. If you are you know, if anybody's watching this, actually looking at direct cremations, so make sure you know where your loved one is going, where they're being looked after. Yeah, we will give our families the time and the date that's going to happen, but they cannot attend. No and sometimes there's a reason for it. I'm looking after a family at the moment, and the reason moment, and the reason they wanted it is they were, they were with their loved one when she died. She's quite a young lady. They don't want to go through that trauma again of saying goodbye, yeah, but they're going to have a celebration of her life, lovely when they feel ready. Yeah. I get that because it was really hard for them. But you know, the problem you've got with the direct cremations is it's sometimes somebody will sign up for it, particularly these adverts on the TV saying, Oh, it's going to be easier for the family, and it's a bit cheaper and whatever, but the family need to say their goodbyes. Very important. Yeah, yeah, and they're not going through that grieving process, which is part in a funeral is hard. Doesn't matter if they're an older person or a younger person. A funeral is hard and you know, but You've almost got to go through it as part of the grieving process. So when we've got these direct cremations, they've got, well, what happens? You know, there's, where's that grief gone? Yeah, you know, there are ways of honoring lives. So you know, for instance, yes, you can go to a you cannot have a cremation, but you might have a party or a meal or a memorial. But I think when we are asked about them, we'll say, right, what is it you want? You know, there's ways of getting around it. We can do very simple strip back funerals. So it may be that they'll say, Well, mum didn't really want anybody. No first, no first, yeah, but actually they want. To do something so well, let's keep it low key. Yes, keep it to a very short survey. Yeah, there's ways we can honor both sides. Yeah, absolutely, I think. And that's the biggest thing. I mean, obviously, again, in the day, you perhaps didn't have the choices that you've got now, covid, in a way, did us a favor, because we've got the live streaming, we've got the photo stuff we didn't have, yeah, so that, in a way, as has been quite useful, what we wear, what we listen to, what vehicles we have or we don't have, actually, you can have what you want, yeah, so there's, there's a lot more choice out there, yeah, and that's really important that we get that right for families, yeah, absolutely. But respecting tradition, if that's what they Yeah, absolutely. And I think actually, for me, hearing you talking about the direct cremations, it's like, you know, I'm having those conversations all the time now with my family, because I think exactly like you say, we don't talk about death enough, but yes, it happens to all of us. And actually, you've lived a whole life, it's so important to get that right. I think it's your final farewell. And you know, I've been talking to like, my family and that, and my mum has got this thing in her head where she's like, Oh, I don't want everyone there, and I don't want a coffin. I'm like, But Mum, you could have a Direct Cremation, but still have a memorial, yeah, where we still have that service. Because exactly like you said, I think it's important, it's for you say goodbye. I think having that little moment. And if she doesn't want a cough in there, she doesn't need, why does she doesn't need, why does she not want a cough in there when she's not there? Don't know. I don't know. She just got, you, she's got this thing. She says, I just don't want everyone seeing my coffin coming in. And I think exactly like you say, it is, she's trying to stay, because you've almost got to go through it, you know. And actually, again, it doesn't have to be a wooden, traditional, hard coffin. Look at the beautiful coffins that we talked about, gorgeous have. So I think we try to find out from a family, when that happens, is this what you really want? Yeah, if it's not, then let's try and work out, you know, with with a celebrant, with a vicar, how are we going to get this to something that is going to be right for both, you know? So I think that's the biggest thing. Yeah, I don't know going forward what, what's going to happen. I think we've got to be flexible. The new generation. They want to go online. They want to book things. They want, yeah, want things instantly. So we've got to be aware of having lots of things online for them. But I don't think anything can be sitting down with a family, agree, face to face, yeah, in having Speaker 1 12:21 that moment. And it doesn't need to be a somber tone, if you don't want, if you don't want, that kind of sadness there, yeah. I mean, look at the times we work together. I said right from the beginning of working with you guys, that's kind of my vibe for funerals is a celebration of life. I've always wanted to be uplifting and yeah, and really celebrate what made that person so wonderful. And I think that's the thing. I think people who, you know, aren't aware of their choices maybe think, Oh, we've all got to sit there in black and all be crying the whole way Listen Speaker 2 12:48 to Nimrod, yeah, yeah. And it doesn't know exactly, doesn't. And I think there is points in funerals where it is difficult. Particularly, I always find music and photographs, Yeah, always. And that's kind of expected. But actually very rarely, when somebody's come out of that side door afterwards, they might, they'll be upset, but then it's almost like this massive relief, yeah, it's like that real big, yeah, yeah, that's it. And then they're, they're sharing stories and memories, and they're going onto the wake and and it's kind of the right thing to do. There's nothing wrong for them being upset. And, you know, and that's how we manage it between us is, how do we manage this? How do we get this right? How do we nail this to absolutely celebrate that 95 year olds life, yeah? Or that, you know, 19 year olds life, yeah, yeah. And I think that's the big difference, is how you deal with those families, Speaker 1 13:38 yeah, 100% 100% so then we've touched on it a little bit, but let's talk about your relationship with celebrants as a funeral director. So how would you work together? Obviously, we know because we've worked together, but for people who you know are new to this, how would a funeral director work with a celebrant to support them? Okay, Unknown Speaker 13:55 okay, so Speaker 2 13:58 I think to establish a good working relationship, which I'm sure we'll talk about anyway, that sort of attributes with us working together. Yeah, could be celebrant doesn't like us or the way we work, and it may, but I haven't come across this, but yeah, not working well in your safety. But I think, I think the main thing actually, is we've got to get on. Yeah, you are part of our team. Yeah, you know, at the end of the day we employ you, we recommend you to work with our families. If we can't trust you to do that job. It's my head that's on the chopping. Course, exactly. Yeah. It's like, you know, we might recommend a florist, yeah, other, you know, a catering or whatever. I think, you know, yeah. But actually, you play such a vital role in putting that together. Yeah? If I'm sat at the back of the service and it's not great, you know, that isn't good for me, no? So I've got a lutely that trust in my celebrant that they are going to be able to do this. Yeah? Some of them are hard. Yeah, some families aren't as easy to deal with as others, yeah, particularly depending on a mode of death. For instance. That can be really, really hard, yeah, of course. So I think particularly having a good relationship and having the trust to, you know, have the confidence for you to be part of our team and to be an ambassador of our business, really, yeah, and your business as well, isn't it? Really, yeah, I think that's really important. And also, yes, sort of singing off the same hymn sheet, really, in that again, the celebrants that I work with, we all kind of get it, and we all work together, and we understand this is how it all works, and we agree, yeah, if you didn't particularly sit well with the celebrant and it didn't quite work, then actually, it's not going to work. It's a family, right? No, I totally agree, so. But I always get the vibe. I mean, we don't work with a lot of celebrants. We haven't got many, and actually, I do like to just have a few. And I think we become friends. And yeah, I think the main thing is, you're part of our team, yeah? And that's how we look at it, yeah. And I think so too, and especially like on those family visits, for example, yes, we'll go out and see that Speaker 1 16:00 family, yeah. And actually, so many of the questions involve you guys as well. I'll be saying, oh yeah. And I'll speak to Julie's team about this, or Julie's team have advised you on that. And you know, we are there, the two of us, yes, all of us together to support that family from all sides, exactly, exactly. And Speaker 2 16:17 that's one of the, one of the things that might be something we pick up on. But one of the questions I think that you'd sent me was, I can't remember what the question was, but it was about not repeating ourselves. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I might see the family in the in the on the initial interview. Yeah, sometimes I've sat and a celebrant or a minister's been with me, but very often it may be myself or Lewis, and we sit with the family, and we'll ask these questions and then I feed them back to the celebrant. Yes, we do not want to be no, that poor family, I'm to go through it all again. All again. Exactly. I think we kind of nailed that. We know how we how we were, you know what questions to ask. So that seems to work really well. Yeah, a celebrant that isn't quite getting that information from me and not really doing their homework and then going in that poor family's got to go through it Speaker 1 17:03 all again. It's not great. It's too much, yeah, and it's such a difficult time anyway, really, at the end of the day, we are there to make their life easier, exactly, take away as much as we can, yeah, that they can just focus on working their way through exactly, definitely. So what do you think then, when you are, you know, matching a celebrant with a family, yeah, what are those kind of key attributes that you, that you look for, or what the, what are the things that you think, right? Okay, that's what makes them a good time for that fan, Speaker 2 17:27 okay, I think the main thing is what I, I Googled this. I ai this last night, or whatever it's called, to find out emotional intelligence is that the ability to read instinctively, instinctive feelings of ourselves and others and how you express yourself so and I think you can either do this or you can't, yeah, I don't know if you can be taught it. Yeah, I don't know. But if you go into a room and you've got a lady a family and say that their grandmother died and she's 105 it's going to be sad, but there's going to be probably some great memories, yes, and it's going to be quite easy. Yeah, you could go into a room where you're looking after a teenager that sadly has passed away for whatever reason. That's going to be very different, yes, and you've got to know how to handle it, you know, the jokes, not the jokes, but just even how you are in your personality, yeah, sometimes it can be lemonade, and you can walk out thinking, gosh, did I actually achieve what I wanted to then? So I think, I think an attribute would be okay. So, you know, we've got a very difficult situation here. We need to match that family with somebody that is going to be capable of dealing with this, because this is very, very, very difficult, yeah, you know. And again, my my little sort of group of celebrants that I work with, I know they can all handle, yeah, those situations, yeah, as a new celebrant, I guess it is experience, you know. And you would hope that if you're working with the funeral director, then they're going to be quite kind to you, and perhaps, yes, give you some that are easier, yeah, that you're having to work less or not, you know. But there are some where situation, the situations, can be hard. So I think, I think that what I call emotional intelligence, I don't know if that is something you can you can Speaker 1 19:13 no teach, perhaps something that, yeah, absolutely, you know, but I know exactly what you mean. And I think that's where being led by the family is so important. Because, you know, I'll go and sit with some families and I'll say, Okay, what's the kind of vibe that we want to go for? And some of them straight away are, oh, we want to, you know, have fun with it. We want to tell these stories, and we want to swear, because that was Dad through and through. And it's like, okay, that works for them. Yeah. Then you have some that they want to keep it quite short and sweet, because they might still be in a lot of shock. And you know, that is not the kind of time where we would be having exactly laughing about those uplifting memories. It's, you know, there's always a kind of like, I think, when you first go into that meeting, I think from the family, yeah, there's always that Oh, anticipation of what's this going to be like. I always think if, if you can get there. Comments from a family at the end of the meeting that say, Wow, thank you. That's that was a lot easier than I expected. Or, yeah, you've made that nicer than I thought. Or, actually, it's been quite nice. You know, talking about them, I think that's really, yeah, shows that we've done our job properly. And also, I think, actually, Speaker 2 20:15 I've never really given this a thought before, but usually when we when we work with the family, they've chosen me to look after their loved one. I recommend you. So they don't know who you are. Exactly the celebrant is, you know, most funeral directors. So, you know, although I've got the trust in my celebrants, if, if they, they don't know who you are, what to expect. So you're quite right that I think it's quite hard, you know, and you know, if you can get as much experience shadowing, I would say, do definitely come on. So yeah, I think also, again, talking about matching celebrants to few to families. Again, we're quite local. We haven't got that many crematoria in our area or natural burial grounds, but having a good understanding of where they are, because that gives Yes, family the confidence when you say, this is where you park. This is what we've got. This is how many minutes of services you'll leave by this door. These are the situations where the cat of out, it doesn't move, curtain, skirt, all these things you need to know, celebrate, no, and if they are not familiar with a certain one, because they might not live in that area, which is because we're so rural, everybody seems to Yeah, yeah, yeah. That might be something to consider, yes, absolutely, a location so that they know exactly what they're talking about and getting the names of towns correct, because I have people which, you know, you think, oh my gosh, you don't pronounce it like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, she think, oh no, yeah. And it shows that local knowledge, like you say to some family, that's really, you know, might be a childhood town or whatever, doing the homework. Yes, you know, absolutely. And I think, exactly like you said there, knowing where your local crematorium is, if that's where you're going to be doing a lot of services, go and see them. They're so lovely. They'll go and do a little tour, you know, so that you are prepared. I think that's the thing for this. Preparation is key, yes, if you are prepared for anything that family might ask you, like, I say we're there to be that kind of, you know, support for them, yeah, support system. So if we can help make that feel a little bit clearer, and actually, what's going to happen once they go in, into that, you know, chapel, yeah, actually, if we can help clarify a bit of that absolutely, they may have been to a crematorium, they may have been to a burial site. They may not have been and how scary is it? Because we do it all the time, yeah, yeah, exactly you gotta you have to remember that these people might not have attended a funeral for many years, or if at all, yeah. And so how scary is it, think, well, what happens? Yeah, absolutely. So to do your homework, to get it right, yeah, to visit, to understand everything. There is no shadow. Sit at the back of service. Yeah, yeah. You ask a funeral director. Can I just come and sit and watch? Yeah, you know, understand what happens. Yeah, good idea. No, I think that's fantastic. So what do you think then? What would you say are some of the key things that us as celebrants need to consider to give our family. So obviously, we've spoken about how we work together. Do you think exactly like we've just said, really? Do you feel like we've probably covered all I think so I do your homework, which, yeah, yeah. So visit crematoria, yeah, make an appointment. Don't just turn up. Yes, go and see the local ones that you think you're going to be working with. You understand how they work, because some of them are a little bit different. Yeah, they're catafal in particularly where the coffin sits. Not many around our area, but some lower Yes, which is very different. Yeah, to us, what we we look at, look at natural burial sites. Because I was thinking as a celebrant, you're more involved in the natural burial ground. So a burial which isn't as familiar working with you on burials as a crematoria, but visiting those visit your funeral directors. Also, I've noted about as a celebrant, understand the process of death from the time it happens to the funeral, even if it's just reading the funeral directors information booklet. What happens? What does that mean? What happens if they go to the coroners? How does that work? Because if you understand roughly what they're going through, it might make it a little bit easier to understand, perhaps their emotions as well, the timescales on things. Bearing in mind, your funeral director is there to guide you through all that. As a celebrant, we wouldn't expect you to have to know the ins and outs as coroners, but it's worth understanding the process of the day. I Speaker 1 24:26 think that's quite important. I do. And I think realizing as well how much these families have to go through before they even get to their first meeting with you. Exactly. There's so much. And I think, like we say anything that we can help to ease that. And also, are there some conversations that you and I, or perhaps me and Lewis or the rest of the team can have between ourselves? We don't need to worry about asking the family and troubling them with absolutely things. I agree. It's all things like that. It is just being prepared. Yeah, definitely. So I've got a couple of questions that have been sent in by other celebrants. Okay, so I'm just going to ask you something now. What they might be, you know, topics that we've kind of touched on already, but I will give you a few of these because they've been and some of them are really good. So the first one with the rise in Direct Cremation and new things like hydro cremation. How do you see funerals evolving over the next decade? So can you just give us a little bit more info on hydro cremation as Yeah, as far Speaker 2 25:19 as I'm aware, it's not happening at the moment in the UK, I think it may be happening. And forgive me if I've got this wrong in Ireland, okay, yeah, okay, so it is a process. So it is a committal process. So it's a way of the disposal of the decease through a tank, where they place a deceased in the tank, and whatever they put in with the deceased, then we'll just dispose of it, yeah. And I think you do get something out at the end of it. I'm not over familiar with it. I'm going to be honest. It's something we're not having. It's very new here we offer here, yeah, I guess, I guess, thinking of the 10 years, and I know we've spoken about Direct Cremation, so things we've all got to be really aware of is our environment. Yes, that's cool. And that could be a thing for the reason for that hydro taking a little bit better, isn't it? Yeah, environment, I mean, the crematorium, the crematorium now have all sorts of abatement filters and everything, so you're paying for that. The sort of cost of cremation is going up as well, so we have to be aware of that. So I think the green funerals is something to be thinking about. Yes, it's not easy to to completely do a green funeral. Because, you know, lots of things are still imported. You know, we got the travel if you're rural, things to think about, but that might be be something to consider in the future. Yeah, I think as we look at the next generations coming through, just thinking about how my children, who are in their late 20s, how they, I don't know, access anything they want. They're buying that, yes, or online? Yeah, absolutely. Which I think we need to, as funeral directors, be looking at that. And I mean, most of us have got good websites. So you know, anybody shopping around, I must mention as well, that always, if you're looking for a funeral director, they should have the the CMA standardized prices so so that can be compared. Yeah, absolutely. So I think we need to be making sure that we're out there. But I still think it's really important that you, if you can, that we have these face to face conversations. Yeah. So who knows, you know, who knows the time, the time scale for a funeral is still around to in our area, so this is just bespoke to this, this area that we serve about two and a half weeks, yeah, because the registration process, etc. But who knows, that might Quicken? Yes, I don't know. I don't know. So we'll see. So perhaps if I'm still here in tenure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you will, I'd like, I don't know, Unknown Speaker 27:44 yeah, so we will see. Speaker 1 27:46 But that's an interesting one. But Direct Cremation, I think, in a way, is, is doing a little bit of a we're not sure now, yeah, yeah. Maybe people are trying it and then thinking, actually, no, I think quite the right thing, yeah, like we spoke about, I think having that actual going through the process is important. Very important, definitely. Yeah. Okay. Can you discuss funeral celebrant fees? How important are fees when considering which celebrants to put forward to families? Okay, should it be a one size fits all, or, like with weddings? Do you think celebrants should set their own fees? Speaker 2 28:16 Oh, okay, that's interesting. If I think about the fees that the celebrants that I work with CHARGE, they're all very similar, actually. If I had a celebrant that charged, I don't know, 50 pounds more, for instance, I think, well, fair enough, if that's your choice. Yeah, very good at what you do. I think that I would prefer to have paid the higher fee. But yeah, that that family is going to be looked after. Yeah. Well, I don't think it's up to us to dictate. No, you know, the Church of England have a set fee. And I always think that if you look at what the Church of England, so if you were employing a minister to conduct a funeral, and then we employed you, they are on a par, yes, you know, yeah, you know, there's a lot of work that goes into this, as you know, behind the scenes from you, yeah, travel the on the day, the aftercare, the worry, yeah. So actually, why not put a value for that yes, as if they I would be uncomfortable. I can advise if, I mean, celebrate said, What do you think? Yeah, but they are all roughly the Speaker 1 29:16 same, yeah, yeah. And I think that's the thing of celebrants. Really, we do look across, yeah, you know, the market around nearby. And actually a lot of us do, like you say, look at the Church of England. Yes, although, yes, our offering might be a bit more in depth. And you know, we, we do spend a lot of time, of course, getting to know our families, but actually, we don't want it to be significantly more than what they would be paying for a church of England fee. Speaker 2 29:38 Because I don't know, I don't think so. And actually, the other thing that I know we haven't touched on, but is funeral poverty as well. There's there's that exactly. So again, we don't want to be thinking, wow, this, this family can't have a funeral because they can't afford it. But actually, I would then be having a conversation with my son and say, look, what can we do here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, in those, in those circumstances, yeah. I certainly wouldn't want to set a fee. And I think. If I got a celebrant was absolutely brilliant. Then, you know, I don't want to say you get what you pay for, because that's not the Speaker 1 30:07 right thing. You mean, there's the value on it, value absolutely on their experience. That's something then that you can advise with your families Yes, and say, Look, this celebrant is going to be Yeah, cost a little bit more, but actually, what you're getting is this, exactly yes, absolutely. Okay. So with the increasing number of funeral celebrants available, what qualities make a celebrant stand out from the crowd? Speaker 2 30:28 I think, well, we touched on the attributes, haven't we, yeah. So if I had a celebrant walk into my office today and introduce themselves, I think it's just on their personality, yeah, yeah, just being themselves, yeah. And, you know. And also, if you don't know something, don't worry. Just, yeah, yeah, you know, um, don't make it up. So I think for me, if I have a sound work, it walk in and they're bubbly, and we get on, that's enough, yeah. And then I think from there, we take it. From there, it must be hard for celebrants if they haven't done this before, because they need to get a foot in the door, of course. Yeah. And I don't quite know how that works, yeah, you've got to have the faith in the funeral director, yeah, okay. Well, look, this is a family. It's quite a simple funeral, you know, but I think if they've got that right personality, you can normally tell straight Speaker 1 31:12 away, yeah. And I think getting that connection as well, like you say, there's nothing like going in to see somebody in person. And I think that's the thing. I even remember with you guys, it was when I just moved to the new area, and I came in, and I came and met Lewis and had a little chat with him. And it was a couple of months later that I remember you rang me, and you're like, oh, actually, Laura. And it's, you know, it's great. We've worked together ever since. But I think exactly like you say, going in and meeting people in person, you just can't be Yeah, I think so. And do you think in that case, you would prefer celebrants contact you by phone or email first and arrange a time? Because Speaker 2 31:47 obviously, yeah, don't just walk in, yeah? Because, as you know, we never know from one minute to the other in our industry what's going to happen. Yeah, we always try to give our celebrants that the meters, and we do get a few through the door, you know, just training, whatever, I would make an appointment, say, can I come in and see you? Yeah, and almost ask them the questions, ask for their information, find out what crematorium that they they they serve, perhaps, ask if you could even sit in on on some and just watch what happens, and sort of try, you know, just become part of their team. But I think if you've got that personality, and you click, that's fine, yeah? But you know, what you have to remember is that most funeral directors will have, we do? We have to because, you know, otherwise, you're never allowed to go on holiday. Yeah? You Yeah, absolutely, yes. We do match them up to put according like we've discussed. So, so I think for anybody that's considering it, go down that high street, meet them, you might, you might not, like them, Speaker 1 32:45 yeah, yeah, exactly. It's as much both ways, absolutely, and that's the thing. And I guess as well, for celebrants, it depends on what they want to offer as well. Because I, you know, the majority of my work is weddings, and then you are the only funeral directors I work with, yeah? Because, actually, I love you guys. We get, well, it's enough. You know, the funerals that I do for you is enough for me at the moment, that's a good number for you. So that works really well. But I think you're absolutely right. It shouldn't just be a one way street, actually. Yeah. If you can find that working relationship, it makes every Speaker 2 33:14 life. But if you work with somebody, and I hope it never happens, a funeral director, and they weren't great, would you want your name, yeah, yeah, exactly. You've got to, I guess, actually mean me talking about trust, but you've got to trust me as much as I trust you that I've ordered that music that we are going to turn up on time. Yeah, I have got everything as you asked it to be. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So true. I think that relationship is so important. Yeah, okay. And then what's the best thing about being a funeral director and what's the most challenging? Oh, gosh, wow. That's interesting. The best thing, I think, is at the end of a funeral, when you walk away with the family and you have served them, yeah, you know, and you've done the very best you can. And it's, it's nobody wants to be at a funeral. Very often, nobody wants to be our friend, yeah? But you know, to have that, that acknowledgement, really, that we have done that job for them, and they can go away, then that's it. You know, it's stressful. And I will never stop in the middle of the night waking up stressing. I haven't ordered that music and I have, yeah, but you just worry, it is quite stressful, yeah, because you've only got one shot at getting this right. That's it. I think that's and I think mixed in with the the emotions that family may be going through, it's, I'm assuming it's very different to a wedding. I don't know. Yeah, it is very different, but also different in such a rewarding way. Like, I absolutely love weddings, and I love the joy of weddings, and you know that buzz you get afterwards is fantastic, but the honor that it is to be into a family and be given that privilege to hear their stories and their favorite memories of that person, and to be trusted, yes, to be the last person to offer that, you know, conduct that service, it's their final farewell is just. Massive, isn't it? It's massive. Never get nervous. Yes, quite a few years now, and I still get nervous before each one. And I think the moment you stop sort of getting a little bit nervous, yeah, you know you're going through it all in your head. And we have a staff briefing before we all leave, and they're all given their little jobs. If you start getting a bit complacent, that's the time to leave. Yeah, absolutely. So important to get this right. It doesn't matter if it's a 10 Minute service or it's a double slot with 300 mourners. It doesn't matter. Yeah, they are so important, yeah, to get it right. Speaker 1 35:29 So and then finally, this one I really love. They've said in the style of snog, Mario, void, right? What would you go for? Burial, natural burial or cremation? So, snog, marry, avoid. You've got to choose one that you like, okay, one that you would love, and one that you'd avoid. Okay, so just for you, personally, for me, obviously, we know it's right for everybody. So Speaker 3 35:52 I would like a I was it? What's the what's the top word? So, Speaker 1 35:58 snog. Marry a voice. Basically, what would you like? What would you love longer? Okay, Speaker 2 36:02 what I'd really like is a burial, yes, okay, yes, long term, yeah, it's going to be a cremation. Yes, yeah, yeah. Not that I'd avoid it, but the natural burial, because it's just not as close to where I'd want, want to be. Yeah, you know, that's it really Yeah, yeah, because that's the thing. I guess with natural barrier, you have to go specifically where the grounds are. Yeah, we have gotten quite close to us, yeah, but yeah. And I'm again, as a mum and for my husband, thinking, actually it's what's easiest, yeah, yeah. This with the whole Direct Cremation. But I haven't put Direct Cremation. No, true, you haven't included. I think I would. It was up to me, but it's not up to me. So I'm already thinking, No, my kids would kill me if I did that. So love it. There we go. Now I feel Speaker 1 36:43 like you've given bags of these, but I always end with this, so I'm going to end with it anyway. One piece of advice for anyone considering becoming a celebrant, so anyone who's listening to this, okay, you know, I'd quite like to do that. What's one bit of advice you'd Speaker 2 36:54 give them? Just be yourself. Yeah? Lovely. Absolutely. Be yourself, because if you start putting on anything that you're not then actually, that's when it's going to go horribly wrong. Yeah? And if people and if people don't like you, then move on and they'll be trying with us. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, thanks, Julie. Well, thank you for having me. Unknown Speaker 37:10 Thank you for coming on. You're welcome.