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Secrecy and nondisclosure agreements erode public trust · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:13
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Maha Lowdown.
• 0:16
  I'm Jeff Lauterbach.
• 0:18
  And we have a topic here today that is being widely discussed.
• 0:25
  Some people might wonder why it's a Make America Healthy again topic, but it is, and we'll talk about that with our guest.
• 0:33
  And our topic today is on data centers.
• 0:38
  And obviously, that's a something that's going on all around the country facing communities, both urban and rural.
• 0:45
  Uh, want to welcome Max Moran of We Are Mason County and uh Mason County, Kentucky.
• 0:51
  Welcome to the show, Max.
• 0:53
  Thank you, Jeff.
• 0:54
  Pleasure to be here.
• 0:56
  And I know that uh for the Epic Times, I have a story that's going to be going in about Mason County, Kentucky probably sometime this week.
• 1:06
  And um, and but the we'll we'll talk in this conversation in depth about that, about what what you're facing there because I think it's a microcosm of what's going on across the country where uh communities are suddenly facing uh farmland being transferred transformed into data centers, and and I know it's a complex topic, so maybe you could start by telling us a little bit about your background and then how you got uh involved.
• 1:37
  Yeah, so uh a little bit about me.
• 1:40
  I'm 23 years old, I'll be 24 here in August of this year.
• 1:44
  My background is uh space systems engineering.
• 1:47
  I received a uh bachelor's of science in space systems engineering from Moorhead State University in 2024, and uh it's a little funny how I got involved in this because when I graduated in 2024, I decided to take the rest of the year off as a break from uh the four years of getting my degree, I just did farm work.
• 2:08
  Well, in the winter of 24 going into 25, I uh started hearing rumors around here of potentially three things that were going to be coming to Mason County in the next year or so, and uh, one of them was a data center, another one was an aluminum bill, and then another one was a water treatment plant.
• 2:29
  A few months went by, didn't think much about it, and then I received an invite to join another Facebook group called We Are Oldham County, who was dealing with an unknown hyperscale data center wanted to come in in the city of LaGrange in Oldham County, Kentucky.
• 2:47
  I joined and I started learning about data centers and quickly realized that this could turn sour really really quickly if we don't regulate this.
• 2:57
  So I joined that group in uh April of 2025, started reading articles, and then we made our group in June of 2025, and since then we've been pretty much down in the trenches trying to help educate people best we can and challenge local government.
• 3:16
  And uh, well, just to give people context who don't know uh Maysville, Kentucky, Mason County, Kentucky is in the northern part of the state uh bordering the Ohio River along the Ohio River separating Ohio and Kentucky.
• 3:30
  I'm actually located in southern Ohio.
• 3:34
  I'm about uh takes me about an hour and a half drive to get to the Maysville area.
• 3:39
  So obviously, this is happening all over the country, and it seems like everywhere we're looking now, we're seeing stories on fights against data centers.
• 3:52
  So to give people an understanding of what you're facing there.
• 3:57
  Uh could you give us an explanation of uh what's happening or what what the uh proposal is?
• 4:05
  Sure.
• 4:06
  So what we're dealing with here to give your listeners uh brief overview, we're dealing with an unknown top 50 sports and tech company.
• 4:16
  We still don't know who the tech company is now.
• 4:19
  We have a good idea who it is, but we still don't truly know who the tech company is coming in.
• 4:25
  They uh want 2,080 acres to build their facility.
• 4:30
  They say not all the acres will be used, there'll be green space and all this other hunky-dory stuff, which you know that's a whatever deal.
• 4:40
  But uh the facility layout itself, this is gonna require 2.2 gigawatts of electricity, and for frame of reference, that's a little over a third of the daily needs of the entire city of New York City, which needs six gigawatts of electricity every single day.
• 4:59
  So we're looking at an enormous amount of power for one facility here, so much so that our local power plants, the uh Eastucky Power Company and the Spurlock Power Station, even if they built this data center tomorrow, they physically cannot give them the energy because they have to do expansions.
• 5:21
  I believe they're gonna have to build at least another two to four generators at the Spurlock generating station just to power this one facility.
• 5:31
  So we're talking about something that's gonna be an extreme burden on resources because if the power plant has to basically double, if not triple its output, then you're talking about something that's beyond truthfully comprehensive in terms of what it needs.
• 5:48
  And then uh, of course, we already talked about the land that it needs.
• 5:51
  The water, they keep going up and down on the water it needs, which is mostly for cooling.
• 5:56
  Originally, they were wanting to use the Ohio River, which our organization we had no issue with, but we were telling them you can use the river, but we don't want you to pollute it and make it worse for people downstream either way.
• 6:10
  Well, now they switched to say that we caused too much of a fuss, and now they are going to be using our aquacil water.
• 6:18
  Primarily they're gonna be using the water from Western Mason Water District, and then the new water treatment plant that this company plans to pay for for the city of Maysville, that's also gonna drill down into the drink of water as well.
• 6:35
  And something that's really troubling, and I know we talked about this, and you talked about it being a trend about the NDAs, the non-disclosure agreements where the tech companies come in to rural communities and uh local elected officials and local officials sign NDAs, and then the people residents, farmers, business owners, they don't know what's going on, and uh it's kind of they they point back to the NDAs as an kind of a crutch or an excuse.
• 7:00
  Business owners, they don't know what's going on, and uh it's kind of they they point back to the NDAs as an kind of a crutch or an excuse.
• 7:11
  Right.
• 7:11
  Right.
• 7:12
  Well, and I can tell you here for your listeners, the issue with the NDAs we have here in Mason County specifically, in a nutshell, which we do try and find ways to compromise.
• 7:12
  Well, and I can tell you here for your listeners, the issue with the NDAs we have here in Mason County specifically, in a nutshell, which we do try and find ways to compromise.
• 7:25
  We have actually offered several times to work with our local government, but we pretty much
• 7:25
  We have actually offered several times to work with our local government, but we've pretty much been told no, we'll do this all ourselves, and pretty much just being ignored, and they're turning down help from people that are willing to volunteer, give expert opinions.
• 7:40
  So with the NDAs, essentially, especially with our elected officials.
• 7:46
  Now, most people don't have a necessarily a problem with people that are appointed to a position, such as the folks of our industrial development board who are appointed to that board, sign an NDAs, the issue stems from the actual elected officials, people that have to rely on someone else's vote to put them in the position of power.
• 8:09
  Most people don't like the thought that when you go and ask them a question say, hey, so and so, what's going on in the county or what's going on in the city or whatever, that they would essentially say, Well, I can't tell you everything because I sign an NDA.
• 8:23
  If I say the wrong thing, I'm lobbled against the county or the city sued because I breached that NDA.
• 8:31
  In my opinion, when it comes to the NDAs, it's a betrayal of the public's trust, mostly because, and I am running for office myself, and I've told people in my campaign, I said, my opinion when it comes to what people want to know, and they ask me a question when I'm the uh elected official, should be answered one of two ways.
• 8:52
  It should be here's I know, or I'll find out.
• 8:56
  It should never be I can't tell you something because I signed a non-disclosure agreement.
• 9:00
  But the other issue, too, that we've seen, and there's been several people across the United States that have helped us, we work with them still.
• 9:08
  One gentleman that comes to mind, his name is Bryce Justifine with Citizens Action Coalition in Indiana, he actually told us a story of how these tech companies operate.
• 9:19
  I believe it was in Oregon, and this was about five, seven years ago.
• 9:24
  Google came in and they built a massive facility out there, but their NDAs were so binding.
• 9:31
  He said that the mayor of this town pretty much is almost afraid to even utter the words Google to this day.
• 9:40
  So these companies, they pretend like they're they're your friends and they're the golden goose, but at the end of the day, they're still going to do what's best for themselves, not necessarily the people in the area they're going into.
• 9:55
  And in today's society, we need uh data centers uh uh to some degree.
• 10:02
  Uh I just don't uh from my research and what I've gotten to know, we don't need the hyperscale data centers to this volume and this this level.
• 10:13
  But what what can you tell us about what you've learned about uh what this will power and uh what this will do in your uh area.
• 10:25
  So, and of course, this comes from independent research, talking with experts and just going out and actually seeing most of these sites.
• 10:35
  So, based on the research I've done, and this is strictly my own opinion.
• 10:39
  I have no physical proof that this will happen at the time, but I believe, especially for our particular data center here since the engineer of this project actually told me that our project has the potential to be a DOD project.
• 10:55
  I feel at least in the Ohio River Valley region, a lot of these facilities are going to be used to power what's called the Golden Dome Missile Defense System now.
• 11:06
  For those who don't fully know what that is, basically think of the iron dome that Israel has intercepts uh ballistic missiles.
• 11:15
  The current administration, they want to go through and build one of these systems in the United States, calling it the Golden Dome, with the mindset that it's going to be 50 times better Iron Dome in Israel, which in all hindsight actually does make sense, and national defense, which you know does make sense.
• 11:35
  The prototype is supposed to be built somewhere in southern Indiana, but where it's going to need a massive amount of resources, mostly in computing power and electricity, I feel they're going to be connecting most of these data centers via satellite to the golden dome, so it has the ability to process information at near uh light speed, because what I have seen in my research of the Iron Dome in Israel is there's not a person on the planet that can run it because it's all ran by computer.
• 12:10
  It's so quick and it's all done by computers.
• 12:12
  So the only logical conclusion we have here is our uh mental defense system will be powered by AI, but once the prototype is built, it's supposed to be another 13 built across the United States somewhere else.
• 12:27
  That's part of what I believe that a lot of these make regional power because with the mass roll up we're seeing approaching thousands of uh hyperscales across the continental United States.
• 12:39
  I truly do not believe the argument that they're going to be used to make AI images and videos of cats or people.
• 12:50
  Yeah, so it's beyond it's it's pretty comprehensive.
• 12:53
  It's not just and we've had data centers for for decades.
• 12:57
  I know a lot that's uh they haven't just uh popped up, but but the hyperscale data centers and the fact that they're coming into rural areas when when they could be coming into uh industrial areas and brown fields, and what can you tell us about that aspect?
• 13:16
  Because I found when we were talking, uh I know I was down there about a um week and a half ago down in Mason County, and uh talking to you and and several other people, and that was an interesting part of our conversation where you talked about uh you you wanted or you you ask about uh this being located in brown fields or industrial areas.
• 13:40
  Right.
• 13:41
  Well, you see, like I say, we do try to find ways to compromise because we weren't originally against data centers in general, and we really to a point we're still not even against it now.
• 13:55
  We're about being smart growth and smart placement because what they've done now in our county, they've set a president that these major companies, because there will be more than one company set up here, regardless of what the county or the zoning board or whoever says here, because in a nutshell, they've outlived their usefulness, thinking that they are in control, they're not in control.
• 14:00
  Now in our county, they've set a president that these major companies, because there will be more than one company set up here, regardless of what the county or the zoning board or whoever says here, because in a nutshell they've outlived their usefulness thinking that they are in control, they're not in control.
• 14:19
  Because I can tell you right now, with this one company, whatever ends up happening, of course, with our lawsuit we have filed against the county and zoning board as well.
• 14:19
  Because I can tell you right now, when this one company, whatever ends up happening, of course, with our lawsuit we have filed against the county and zoning board as well, if we
• 14:29
  If we can't adequately regulate this stuff, which the county has failed to do that, we do have ordinances, but they are more or less appeasing the company, enough about protecting the people.
• 14:41
  What it does, it allows the other companies in the United States that are facing similar pushback, they will flood into this region, which we're already starting to see because even since we last spoke, there's already been several people contact me to say that they have been getting phone calls about people that say they represent a Fortune 500 tech company that want to buy their land.
• 15:04
  Not to build a data center, they have to pry the information from them, but they say we want to buy your land for $75,000 an acre to build a substation on it to power a heavy industrial um business.
• 15:19
  Now, when you ask the people, they of course say that they signed NBAs, they can't disclose certain side, which in the world of business, I get that, that makes sense, but it's already starting to happen, and I believe the county doesn't even have knowledge that this is happening.
• 15:35
  So the problem I fear is if these other companies, if they already own the land and they go for a rezoning change, and the county says, Well, one's enough, we don't need no more.
• 15:47
  The fear I have is these tech companies will eventually start saying, Well, we own the land now, so we're gonna build this either way, and we're gonna sue you for discrimination because you allow those guys in, but you won't allow us in.
• 16:02
  So we really run into an issue of one-o-way growth that's gonna really deter people who live in this region, which unfortunately several people here in Mexico have already said that they're planning on leaving and moving away from the county altogether just because of what's happening here.
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• 19:36
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• 19:41
  I'm Jeff Lauderback.
• 19:42
  I'm here with Max Moran of We Are Mason County in Kentucky.
• 19:48
  And they're battling uh a data center development and and they're really advocating for responsible development.
• 19:58
  I guess uh maybe you can expound on that, Max, as far as this is not this this battle is not to uh like eliminate data centers as a whole, but it's uh focused on responsible development.
• 20:14
  Right.
• 20:15
  Well, and look, also answer your question too better before we went to the break.
• 20:20
  Um we do have industrial sites already in the county that are zone industrial that are empty.
• 20:26
  There's uh nothing in them, they're designed specifically to attract heavy industrial entities just like this to them.
• 20:36
  But what we're running into, we're seeing that these companies that they want to just be as quick and as pop efficient as possible to get their buildings set up, because basically, and I've seen how they built their buildings.
• 20:49
  I actually traveled to New Carlisle, Indiana, where there's been several built up there, of course, those folks up there have been fighting to push them back too, but they're essentially they are made out of concrete and steel, but they're pretty much just toll bars in a mindset.
• 21:00
  And they are made out of concrete and steel, but they're pretty much just pole bars in a mindset.
• 21:07
  There's been new development that uh they make uh multiple story tall building data centers.
• 21:07
  There's been new development that uh they make uh multiple story tall building data centers.
• 21:14
  There's an article I read a while back that talks about a eight story tall building that occupies twelve acres.
• 21:14
  There's an article I read a while back that talks about a eight-story tall building that occupies 12 acres.
• 21:21
  And honestly, in my opinion, that would be what we should try and push for, because several of our industrial parks are around 50 acres, 40 acres, there's some that's up around 100.
• 21:21
  And honestly, in my opinion, that would be what we should try and push for, because several of our industrial parks are around.
• 21:34
  You could put several of those in an area just like that, and it would be a whole lot well better off because when you pop something like this in the middle of the county and make that land industrial, regardless of what they say, you're going to affect people's property values because they'll be wrapped aside an industrial zoned area that they weren't before.
• 21:57
  If they live there, they'll have to deal with the industrial noise and everything else, too.
• 22:02
  But if you go to an area that's been zoned industrial for years, people understand that eventually there'll be something go in there that you know would cause disturbance, but it's at least agreed that, well, you live beside this, you know, that's always been a risk.
• 22:22
  Now you have an interesting background, your family, and it really represents why it's important uh to stand up for everything that your group's standing up for down there.
• 22:35
  Uh tell us about uh the roots that you have there in your family and and uh and the farming, and I I just think that's a fascinating story.
• 22:44
  Yeah.
• 22:45
  So on both sides of my family, because we can't really track back too far, but we believe it's earlier than this, but I'm a sixth generation farmer on both sides of my family.
• 22:56
  My uh mom's parents, they were actually dairy farmers, have uh other family members on her side of the family who are dairy farmers, they still do uh dairy to this day, they're getting ready to retire.
• 23:10
  But uh on my dad's side, same kind of deal, they've grown tobacco, I've raised tobacco up until 2021.
• 23:18
  But uh his family has been here for over 200 years here in Mason County, and I mean, we have a really good connection with the land and the people here and everything, and it just seems such a waste to throw it all away for an industry that in reality may go bailing up here in a few years, or we'll just become obsolete because they're already talking about putting these in space, which hilariously enough would actually make a lot of sense.
• 23:48
  Yeah, well, yeah, putting it in space or or having technology that uh I talked to a gentleman yesterday who said he has a uh friend who is making uh uh he operates a company that uh is is making it uh more efficient as far as size, I guess.
• 24:11
  Um I haven't fully grasped uh I'm gonna look further into that, but I think that's interesting as far as like making it uh significantly smaller.
• 24:22
  Right.
• 24:24
  But yeah, sorry to interrupt you there, but do you uh you were saying that uh if you can continue talking about how your family evolution there and how it dates back because it really represents so many families in that area that uh I know that area just like Ohio, a lot of it was settled with revolutionary war land grants and and oh yeah, you go drive around that area and on the back roads where all the farms are, and it really looks like it probably did back in the 1800s.
• 25:00
  Oh, yeah.
• 25:01
  Well, and even uh talk more on it too.
• 25:04
  The farm that they and my family uh currently own and operate, a 400 acre farm here, we're on paper the second family to actually own that land because the uh it's a sad story, but the lady that my mother and father bought the farm off of, she was the last of her family.
• 25:25
  Her family no longer exists, and uh of course I believe they the final payment was sent to her in 2003 or four, can't remember quite offhand, but uh what happened, she turned 50 two months later, she was uh dead pretty much, and I don't remember what exactly caused her to die, but her family tree going all the way back to the revolutionary war, um, I can't even think of how many greats it would be, but uh her uh you know how many great grandfathers fought the revolutionary war, and because the new government didn't have money to pay the soldiers, they uh just instead beat it off land in the newly added territory that the United States had acquired from the Revolutionary War, the soldiers to uh you know, keep moving uh west and everything, they settled in this region.
• 26:26
  There was originally 600 acres in that these, but I mean, you know, it's just that rich history because you don't really see many areas of the nation like that to the today, unfortunately.
• 26:41
  So how did that lead?
• 26:43
  I know you you've you farmed, you grew up farming your family farms, and then your path went to uh Moorhead State.
• 26:53
  Yeah, so uh kind of a little hilarious how it worked out, but uh the reason I chose Moorhead, of course, it wasn't just because they were an hour away, which in this region we're really blessed to be not far from major metro areas, not far from major universities.
• 27:12
  So I mean, we're in a really really unique area of the state, and truthfully, a really unique area of the country.
• 27:19
  But uh, well, my father, he actually went to Moorhead State, he graduated uh old.
• 27:26
  I can't I don't even remember the graduated, but uh I I knew that even in middle school that I would want to go to Moorhead, but I didn't know at the time what I wanted to do.
• 27:38
  I was thinking of all types of things like kids do in middle school, thinking, you know, maybe a doctor or an engineer, or maybe even go in it for the farming stuff, you know, do ag business.
• 27:50
  Well, what changed my mind, and it was very it's very hilarious how it worked out, but uh in seventh grade, there was an open house that they had up there at Boarhead State, and my mom she decided that well, we got nothing to do that day.
• 28:00
  House that they had up there at Boarhead State.
• 28:02
  And my mom, she decided that, well, we got nothing to do that day.
• 28:08
  So we went up there, and I was always in seventh grade, took a tour of the campus, took all the buildings and everything.
• 28:08
  So we went up there, and I was always in seventh grade, took a tour of the campus, took all the buildings and everything.
• 28:14
  And well, when we ended up at the space building, and we were walking around the whole building.
• 28:14
  And well, when we ended up at the space building, and we were walking around the whole building, I remember one of my professors, Jeff.
• 28:21
  I remember one of my professors, Jeff.
• 28:23
  I that's the first time I actually had met him.
• 28:23
  That's the first time I actually had met him.
• 28:25
  Great, great guy.
• 28:25
  Great, great guy.
• 28:27
  His lab was full of all kinds of old gadgets.
• 28:27
  His lab was full of all kinds of
• 28:31
  He even had parts of missiles in his lab.
• 28:33
  I mean, he was a really really cool guy.
• 28:36
  But uh what convinced me to go in the space industry.
• 28:40
  We went to the control room of the Space Science Building for our 21 meter ground array of more likely.
• 28:46
  The professor who was showing off everything asked if there's a volunteer to uh basically command the satellite array.
• 28:55
  No one stepped up and he looked at me and he asked, Did you want to do it, young man?
• 28:59
  I said, sure, I'll do it.
• 29:01
  So he sat me down in the control room main computer, told me what code to type in.
• 29:07
  I did a press center.
• 29:09
  As I did that, I watched that giant 21 meter dish pivot into position, and as soon as it did, it started receiving telemetry from a satellite.
• 29:17
  That's what hooked me into uh going down that path to be a space systems engineer.
• 29:25
  And so you got your degree, and then you uh returned back to and I know you live in uh the Germantown area, which is on the uh Mason and Bracken County lines.
• 29:38
  Yes, sir, it's actually split right down the uh county line.
• 29:42
  I believe we're like only one of two cities in the entire state that's like that, where uh half the cities are one county, the other half's in uh another county.
• 29:52
  I'm on the city council, we have to deal with both counties, and it's a pretty interesting uh situation, but uh we make it work out.
• 30:02
  So, what led you to get involved in in your city council and then um and you you touched on it earlier, but uh what led to the creation of we are Mason County?
• 30:15
  Right.
• 30:15
  So uh I asked your first question.
• 30:17
  I woke up in the city council.
• 30:19
  Um I was actually asked by uh by our council, because I started going to meetings in uh 21.
• 30:26
  My brother was originally on the council, but uh he served uh two terms, and then he went to the conservation board of the county, and of course you're not allowed to be on uh two different ballots, and his offices were like an office, so we had to get him up being on the city council.
• 30:42
  But I was asked to do it because uh we were running dangerously low on members, and if we fall below having at least three uh council members, then we run the risk that we lose the city, the city gets dissolved, and then we're at the mercy of the counties because right now where we're an incorporated county, or a corporate city, I mean, the counties don't necessarily have a say within the city limits, so in a nutshell, we can help kind of protect our people a bit better from overreach county.
• 31:13
  But uh, and then to answer the other question about how we got started, and it was and it was really funny how it all went.
• 31:21
  I'll try to make it short as I can, but uh, like I said, I joined the group, we are Oldham County, started learning and everything, and then uh it was in May, I'd actually address the physical court of Bracken County, and basically told them that you guys should be preparing about this uh topic because the sooner or later you'll be having to deal with the two, basically telling them what I heard from Oldham County um recommended ordinances and everything that should add to their books to protect people in Bracken County because Bracken County doesn't have zoning.
• 31:57
  So right now, a company go through buy land at Bracken County, start building it tomorrow, and there's nothing they can do about it at all because they don't even have the zoning board.
• 32:09
  But uh, well, once I did that, I received a text message in June of last year.
• 32:18
  It was an invite to a meeting at a gentleman's house to discuss this stuff.
• 32:24
  There was me and eight other people there originally from the very first meeting we had, and I went, I talked, I told them everything, you know, I knew, help them prepare and everything.
• 32:37
  Well, these people didn't want a second meeting.
• 32:40
  So we did.
• 32:41
  It was in uh two weeks from that one.
• 32:43
  There was 30 people there.
• 32:45
  So told the same exact thing again, and from that meeting, they uh had decided that we needed to address the physical court.
• 32:54
  So I took some questions down from them.
• 32:57
  It was 10 questions all together.
• 32:59
  I tried to address our physical court, and that was almost like pulling teeth, the county judge and the county attorney.
• 33:05
  They I guess they're not a fan of questions per se, because they did every excuse in the world to uh try and not answer questions, but uh that was around the time too when our group was made.
• 33:17
  It was made in June of last year, after that second meeting, just as a place to uh get people together, post articles, post meetings, um, all kinds of stuff like that.
• 33:30
  And of course, we still do that today, but uh where we organized formally as an organization, a nonprofit in August of last year, we kind of do a little bit more than just telling people, you know, meetings or at this time or you know, posting data some articles.
• 33:48
  We do actually post stuff about the community, you know, uh other zoning changes or a road that's in bad shape.
• 33:55
  We do allow posts like that too, because when we organized as a nonprofit, we set it up as a community awareness and engagement organization.
• 34:08
  Now, you're also running for I I find it interesting that uh both uh I know I've talked a lot to Janet Garrison, who is one of the co-founders of We're Mason County too, and I know she's running, I believe, for county commissioner, and you're running for uh fiscal judge, I believe.
• 34:27
  Or judge or judge executive.
• 34:32
  And uh, what does that uh entail?
• 34:34
  Or what is that the equivalent of?
• 34:36
  That's like the county administrator or yes.
• 34:39
  So, in a nutshell, think of it like being the CEO of the county or the mayor of the county in a nutshell, the judge executive.
• 34:47
  So in Kentucky, our physical courts would have a judge executive who think of it like in a Congress, the judge executive, the president, the physical court members themselves or the legislative body, the judge uh presents stuff to the physical court members for approval.
• 35:00
  Legislative body.
• 35:01
  The judge uh presents stuff to the physical court members for approval.
• 35:06
  They, you know, debate on it, ask questions, do whatever.
• 35:06
  They, you know, debate on it, ask questions, do whatever, but they have to give permission for the judge to basically go through and do certain things and uh budgets and all that kind of fun stuff.
• 35:09
  But they have to give permission for the judge to basically go through and do certain things and uh budgets and all that kind of fun stuff.
• 35:19
  But the reason I'm running for the position, the main overall reason is the transparency issue because this one issue that we're facing here has truly
• 35:19
  But the reason I'm running for the position, the main overall reason is the transparency issue because this one issue that we're facing here has truly opened everyone's eyes on several other issues that's been going on here for years, if not decades in the county, unfortunately.
• 35:39
  But that's my main issue why I'm running is the transparency issue, and also adequately and truly address this uh data center topic, because right now I think all that the county government is seeing is the potential of a few jobs and the potential of some tax money, which is good.
• 36:00
  I won't ever say it's not good, but when you look at the trade-off, they say we can get anywhere between 50 and 400 permanent jobs at the expense of nearly 2100 acres.
• 36:11
  That math don't really math in terms of being uh smart development.
• 36:18
  Yeah, that's uh that's very true.
• 36:20
  And when we come back from uh our next break, uh I want to expound on that because that's uh that's a that's a big issue related to data centers and what rural areas are facing.
• 36:32
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• 39:04
  Welcome back to the Maha Lowdown.
• 39:06
  I'm Jeff Lauterbach.
• 39:08
  We're in our last uh 17-minute segment, and uh Max, it seems like we can talk for hours about this.
• 39:15
  That's it, it's just uh it's just a topic that especially with the rural areas and down here and uh Appalachia.
• 39:26
  Like uh I moved down here to the Appalachian foothills of southern Ohio from the Dayton area uh about two and a half years ago to get away from the concrete jungle and uh now uh what we're facing all across rural regions is uh solar farms and uh data centers and I know uh that uh that's been a big question.
• 39:52
  Uh why these rural areas so like and I know a lot of people in Mason County are asking that why Mason County.
• 40:00
  Uh what can you tell us about that?
• 40:03
  So, right off the bat, I can tell you that there's been members and executives, at least I think the power they actually told me face to face and they're in public meetings that Mason County is in the sweet spot for developments like this, which I don't agree with per se, because I'm like, well, just because it's good for them doesn't mean it's good for us, the regular people here.
• 40:27
  The main reason that they hit up the most is due to the proximity to the power plant that's in the spur off generator station and the Ohio River, which conveniently enough they're no longer using.
• 40:39
  But the main reason that they really like this region that I've seen is because they can get land for a fraction of what they buy for elsewhere in the nation.
• 40:50
  In Virginia, they go through and uh buy land, starting out at 150,000 an acre.
• 41:02
  There's a uh um shoot off a pair of thoughts.
• 41:08
  Oh, yeah, I got it here.
• 41:09
  There is a 800-acre farm that Amazon bought for 192,000 an acre to build a data center on.
• 41:18
  And then there's an article a while back, I believe, by the Associated Press that uh I don't know if it was a cluster of companies or if it was one company, but either way, it's ridiculous amount of money.
• 41:33
  And if I was a landowner, I would not blame them one bit for doing this.
• 41:39
  But a data center company or companies bought a hundred and thirty acres, and this sounds made up, but I swear it is not made up.
• 41:47
  So they bought a hundred and thirty acres for 4.4 million dollars an acre to build six data center buildings on it.
• 41:55
  And that was in Virginia.
• 41:58
  So with that in mind, my argument is I'm like, okay, why's Kentucky land not worth the same as it is in Virginia?
• 42:00
  My argument is I'm like, okay, why's Kentucky land not worth the same as it is in Virginia?
• 42:06
  It's still on Appalachian, it's still you know, farming communities.
• 42:06
  It's still Appalachia, it's still you know, farming communities.
• 42:10
  Why are we only being offered a fraction when people over there are being offered 10 fold the amount?
• 42:10
  Why are we only being offered a fraction when people over there are being offered 10 fold the amount?
• 42:19
  Yeah, and I know that's a well when I was down there and I was interviewing uh Delsha Bear and Ida Huddleston, uh Ida being the mother, uh Delsha the daughter, and their family.
• 42:19
  Yeah, and I know that's a well when I was down there and I was interviewing uh Delsha Bear and Ida Huddleston, uh, Ida being the mother, uh Delsha the daughter, and
• 42:32
  Kind of like your family uh for generations has been there farming the land, I think at one point they had about 1,200 acres, or they still have 1,200 acres and uh multiple family members, and they turned down, I believe it was 26 million dollars, and uh then nearby, I think what Dr.
• 42:54
  Grosser or Tim Grosser.
• 42:57
  Uh he turned down, I believe it was 10 million.
• 43:02
  And uh, but down the street, there's some farmers who have sold, so they'll be facing uh like Delsha and uh Ida Huddleston.
• 43:15
  Their landscape's gonna dramatically change if this if this goes in, kind of like all of you uh who have farms there.
• 43:22
  Oh, yeah.
• 43:23
  Well, the other sad reality, too, and the company and the county refuses to want to acknowledge this, but some of the landowners, I can think of at least three for sure that I've talked to that uh have actually said the only reason they're selling is because of the threat of eminent domain.
• 43:43
  And I can't fault those people because Emma Domain is extremely nasty to business, no matter how you slice them.
• 43:49
  When the power plant even first came here back in the late 60s, and when the domain was used back then, several people they didn't get offered really anything to their land.
• 44:01
  They were basically just giving pennies and said, here's a little bit of money, we're taking your land.
• 44:06
  So a lot of these people they don't want to go through that because of that threat.
• 44:11
  Now the company keeps saying that all eminent domains use that we'll pull out completely, we won't don't want no association with that.
• 44:19
  And then the county says that they won't do them in a domain either.
• 44:22
  Well, it's a play on words because in the state of Kentucky, there's only two entities that can do eminent domain.
• 44:30
  The first and foremost is the government, so county, city, and state, they can do it.
• 44:34
  And the second is utility companies.
• 44:37
  So inspector power, they can do it, which right now they are in court in Madison County, Kentucky, over a uh massive power line that wanted to run right into the middle of Berea College's Forested area.
• 44:52
  Um they actually Berea actually won a lawsuit in circuit court, but of course, these second power is now filed in the appeals court to overturn the judge's ruling.
• 45:04
  And of course, they're playing a bad song dance saying that 4100 homes are at risk of losing electricity and everything else.
• 45:12
  But those people in Madison County believe similar to what we're facing now is that eventually that big massive transmission line that won the bills will power a massive data center down there in uh Madison County.
• 45:26
  So I mean, like you said, this is a topic that we could talk for hours on end about, but there's several layers of the webs to it.
• 45:33
  It doesn't, it's not like anything else that we've seen in the nation, unfortunately.
• 45:39
  So you mentioned the lawsuit.
• 45:41
  Um what does the what is a lawsuit about and what would you like to see happen?
• 45:47
  So the lawsuit primarily is uh going about how this whole process has been handled.
• 45:55
  There's been uh members of the physical court, members of the zoning board, I believe, and members of the city government of Maysville that have known about this for years, and funny enough, I'll do a quick sidebar.
• 46:10
  They uh actually told me face to face that if it wasn't for me last year on July 15th, 2025, that forced this issue into the public, it would have already been built and no one would have been the wiser until it was already completed.
• 46:26
  They're gonna do the very bare minimum of keeping the public informed in the last possible second by law, but I forced their hand.
• 46:36
  But uh the problem we face is this is the main component of the lawsuit.
• 46:41
  In Kentucky, we have something called a comprehensive plan.
• 46:44
  Every county has to do one every five years, and think of it as a roadmap that uh you want to do for the next five years, and you try and address everything from housing to infrastructure, employment, anything and everything in it.
• 47:00
  Well, we actually tried to introduce language into our comprehensive plan because it was being worked on last year, which had actually been in the works since 2022, because uh the county had actually been running on the 2015 comprehensive plan, but then the next five years was 2020, and the state said not worry about it at the time because of COVID, but uh they were working on it for years, thousands and tens of thousands of tax dollars blown to make it, and members of our county government were involved in the comprehensive plan making.
• 47:37
  They knew this was going on, but they didn't put any language in the plan to protect us, or even give guidance on how to regulate this, and they admit it in public meetings that they were working on this for years.
• 47:52
  So the argument we're working on, one of them anyway, is you knew about this, but you didn't do anything when the time came to do something about regulating.
• 48:07
  Now, how do you think uh things will change there if this development goes in?
• 48:15
  Uh, it'll change drastically because the county calls this perpetual building, which I don't fully believe myself.
• 48:23
  I know we have several pills here that'll have to be flattened and dozed for uh these buildings to be built, but these companies can afford leaks of D11 doses to come in and uh mining trucks, but uh they've said anywhere that this project here takes seven to ten years to complete.
• 48:43
  So I have a nephew who's two years old, so pretty much by the time he gets out of elementary school or going into middle school, this project will be going on, and he'll be having to deal with the construction for years upon years, uh poorly maintained roads because there's no way to keep these our roads in good shape with all of this heavy equipment that'll be coming in and coming out, and uh I just fear that there's gonna be way more than one come in here, so it'll just be building nonstop, and it just won't be worthwhile to live here no more because most people choose to live here because, like you said earlier in the show, most people don't want to live in the concrete jungle.
• 49:00
  Years uh poorly maintained roads because there's no way to keep these our roads in good shape with all of this heavy equipment that'll be coming in and coming out.
• 49:10
  And uh I just fear that there's going to be way more than one in here, so it'll just be building nonstop, and it just won't be worthwhile to live here no more because most people choose to live here because, like you said earlier in the show, most people don't want to live in the concrete jungle.
• 49:30
  So if the concrete jungles come to us, then I fear many people will just call it quits and just outright need to count it all together.
• 49:39
  And then I know um uh what what can you can you tell us about uh the trailer park uh and also the subdivision where uh there's people being displaced there.
• 49:53
  So the trailer park situation, I do try and be fair and see both sides about the landowner, he does have every right to sell, which I've never disputed that fact that you do have the right to sell your land, it is your land.
• 50:06
  But uh the only thing I would say with the trailer park situation is they should have told their people last year, like in October or November that potentially we're gonna be selling the trailer course.
• 50:21
  You may consider trying to find somewhere else to go to, because what they've done now, which those people have less than 90 days to try and find somewhere else to go to.
• 50:32
  A lot of those people are elderly or disabled.
• 50:34
  Well, they can't really find anywhere quick enough to go to because of two factors.
• 50:39
  Right now, the city limits of Maysville, you can't put a trailer in.
• 50:44
  The city code's gonna allow for a trailer to go on the city limits, so you're out of luck there, but then in the county, you have to have at least five acres of land to put a home on.
• 50:57
  So you have to add the five acres, and then you got to get the utilities, you have to get a sewer installed, electric, water, and gas.
• 51:04
  I mean, you're talking about over a hundred thousand dollars in just trying to get another spot set up for them to go to.
• 51:13
  Now, the company did agree that they'll give them 50,000 for moving expenses, but heck, the problem is a lot of those trailers are uh pretty old now.
• 51:24
  They're not in like say 15 years old, they're like in the last 30 years, but there's just so many factors because I don't even think the DOT will give permits for them to be moved, at least in the legal legal way.
• 51:39
  But uh the sad reality is that people in Highland Heights, the subdivision.
• 51:45
  Well, the county judge, I can say this because I saw it myself, he lied to those people, and he said that it won't be anywhere news.
• 51:56
  And well, now it's right across the street from them.
• 51:58
  So there's over a hundred homes there in that subdivision.
• 52:03
  Well, next thing you know, those people are in a tight spot because now they either have to sell to this company or they'll have to stay there and live with the uh industrial noise that comes off of it.
• 52:16
  But then if they do decide to sell a boo uh say in a few years, no one will buy their property because who wants to live beside that.
• 52:24
  So I mean it's a really really bad situation.
• 52:27
  And it's it really all comes down to poor planning on the county, and really them just wanting to try and be sneaking about this whole project.
• 52:36
  Because if they had been open about it from the get-go, it wouldn't be quite as bad as what we're seeing now.
• 52:42
  And I think what's I mean, just to give I mean, you have to see it firsthand to really understand or see it in person, but to give listeners uh a picture the trailer park and the subdivision that's out in a very rural, beautiful area.
• 52:59
  It's almost like the trailer park is on farmland, uh surrounded by farmland.
• 53:07
  It's uh I mean it's part of the landscape there.
• 53:10
  It's uh it's I understand why uh someone would want to live there.
• 53:14
  Same with the if you're gonna live in a subdivision uh might as well be uh out in a very rural area.
• 53:22
  It's these these are very uh pretty beautiful peaceful areas, and uh and now obviously the it's it's near or on the uh proposed data center land.
• 53:35
  Right.
• 53:36
  And it's really it's just the same on all that too.
• 53:40
  What can you tell us about the current status uh as far as the zoning, uh, what's going on, what what uh what are you waiting for for the lawsuits and what's what's next?
• 53:53
  So there's a meeting tomorrow, uh Wednesday, 22nd, yeah, 22nd.
• 54:00
  Um the zoning board's doing more findings of facts stuff, which we'll see if it's actually legal or not.
• 54:07
  They've retained hilariously enough their own attorney, which I call question because they already have a zoning attorney.
• 54:16
  We have a county attorney, and we have a city attorney that's being paid tax funding, but they went through and are paying an outside attorney to represent them.
• 54:24
  Um kind of like, why do you need another attorney when you we're already paying for one?
• 54:29
  Is uh Adam Law is the law out there that's gonna be representing them with uh our attorney in court.
• 54:37
  They uh to my knowledge, they haven't responded to our lawsuit, at least in the court setting at this time, which I believe they're past their deadline to do so.
• 54:49
  So that's something else gonna have to look at.
• 54:53
  But uh ultimately, it's just gonna be about trying to get them to see reason because the sad reality is I actually wanted the physical court to handle this.
• 55:05
  I didn't want them to throw it on the zoning board because all they did is just pass the buck.
• 55:10
  But unfortunately, four of the members of the zoning board, they don't seem interested, nor do they seem to actually care because they're in all these hearings and all these public comments, they just seem more interested in getting the meeting done, getting going back home, don't ask any questions.
• 55:26
  They just want to try and get the zoning done as quick as possible, even as to go as far as to say, well, put words in their mouth and don't uh actually do an adequate resolution to uh on the zoning stuff, which is my opinion, that's not what you need in government.
• 55:44
  You need people that are willing to listen to the constituents, not a uh massive company.
• 55:52
  Well, we're coming down to the final moments of the show.
• 55:55
  Uh Max Moran, uh, thanks for joining us.
• 55:58
  And people can find you, I believe, on Facebook.
• 56:00
  I believe on Facebook We Are Mason County.
• 56:02
  Uh We Are Mason County.
• 56:04
  Yes, sir.
• 56:04
  Yes, sir.
• 56:05
  We also have a website, uh, we are Mason County KY.org.
• 56:05
  We also have a website, we are MasonCounty KY.org.
• 56:10
  And uh we're starting to branch out to uh TikTok and Twitter.
• 56:10
  And we're starting to branch out to uh TikTok and Twitter.
• 56:15
  We also ask for any donations to help our lawsuit because uh it gets pretty expensive having to go to court like this.
• 56:15
  We also ask for any donations to help our lawsuit because uh it gets pretty expensive having to go to court like this.
• 56:24
  We've had several people who are generous to help us, but uh we also ask for donations.
• 56:24
  We've had several people who are generous to help us, but uh we also ask for donations, any amount help.
• 56:29
  Any amount helps greatly.
• 56:30
  We have a uh Zeppy and a GoFundMe both, which are both accessible through our uh website and through our Facebook phase.
• 56:38
  Okay, well, I appreciate your time.
• 56:40
  This has been a great conversation and uh would like to have you on again.
• 56:44
  Likewise.
• 56:45
  Thank you, Jeff.
• 56:47
  I'm Jeff Lauterbach, and that's the Maha Lowdown.
• 56:50
  We'll see you next time.