Latest / Pastor John Piper's answers / Why Do You Focus on God’s Role in Our Suffering?

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Why Do You Focus on God’s Role in Our Suffering? · Pastor John Piper's answers

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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to this new week on the podcast. We
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  Speaker 1: know that God makes use of Satan in our suffering.
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  Speaker 1: He allows it. In fact, God makes use of Satan
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  Speaker 1: in our suffering in order to sanctify us, to make
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  Speaker 1: us holier, which is a shocking fact for you, Pastor John.
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  Speaker 1: Is something you like to stress from Two Corinthians twelve seven,
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  Speaker 1: which is the text that really is like a banner
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  Speaker 1: over that truth. God is using Satan to make us
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  Speaker 1: holier and that theme, Satan's role in our holiness is
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  Speaker 1: the theme that we've covered over the years, as you
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  Speaker 1: see in the APG book on pages three forty one
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  Speaker 1: and three forty two if you want a little digestive
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  Speaker 1: where we've been. But even saying that God uses Satan
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  Speaker 1: doesn't exactly settle all the questions that come up, as
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  Speaker 1: we see today in this email from a listener named Aaron.
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  Speaker 1: Pastor John, I followed desiring God for years and recently
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  Speaker 1: came across your twenty thirteen article Dubai Amazing and Strategic City.
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  Speaker 1: In that article, a question about Job's suffering was answered
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  Speaker 1: by quoting Job forty two to eleven. They showed him
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  Speaker 1: sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the
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  Speaker 1: Lord had brought upon him. I was shocked that this
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  Speaker 1: was the go to verse, as it seems to state
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  Speaker 1: that the Lord directly brought suffering upon Job. Why not
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  Speaker 1: refer back to chapters one and two, which clearly showed
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  Speaker 1: that Satan caused Job's suffering. God allowed it, but he
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  Speaker 1: did not bring it upon Job. Many lessons can be
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  Speaker 1: drawn from Job's trials, Yet this response made it seem
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  Speaker 1: as though suffering comes directly from God rather than being
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  Speaker 1: something he sovereignly allows for a greater purpose. Could you
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  Speaker 1: clarify why Job forty two eleven was chosen instead of
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  Speaker 1: highlighting the conversation between God and Satan in the opening chapters.
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  Speaker 2: I had just given a lecture on missions there in Dubai,
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  Speaker 2: and during the Q and a afterwards, a brother from
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  Speaker 2: Africa asked me if I thought God aloud or brought
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  Speaker 2: about the sufferings of Job. Now. I didn't want to
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  Speaker 2: dodge the question by saying, well, in chapter two of Job,
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  Speaker 2: Satan causes Job sickness, because that's only half the truth.
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to cut to the chase and give the
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  Speaker 2: clearest biblical answer I could, so I simply read Job
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  Speaker 2: forty two eleven then came to him Job, all his
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  Speaker 2: brothers and sisters, and they showed him sympathy and comforted
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  Speaker 2: him for all the evil that the Lord had brought
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  Speaker 2: upon him. Now to this, Aaron says, I was shocked
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  Speaker 2: that this was the go to verse, as it seems
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  Speaker 2: to state that the Lord directly brought suffering upon Job.
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  Speaker 2: Why not refer back to chapters one and two, which
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  Speaker 2: clearly show that Satan caused Job's suffering. God allowed it,
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  Speaker 2: but he did not bring it upon Job. Now, I
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  Speaker 2: think what Aaron is really shocked about is that, not
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  Speaker 2: that I would cite Job forty two eleven, but that
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  Speaker 2: Job forty two eleven really does mean what it says.
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  Speaker 2: That's the shocking thing for Aaron. I think, namely, the
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  Speaker 2: Lord brought all this evil on Job. That's what the
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  Speaker 2: verse says. And he shocked that I read it. And
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  Speaker 2: I think that shock is because he shocked because the
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  Speaker 2: Bible says it. It doesn't say that he did it directly.
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't say that he did it indirectly. It just
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  Speaker 2: says he did it. He was the decisive God was
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  Speaker 2: the decisive cause of Job's suffering, And does of other
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  Speaker 2: verses in the Bible say the same thing. God sent
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  Speaker 2: Joseph into his thirteen years of misery, not just his
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  Speaker 2: mean spirited brothers Psal one of five seventeen. God sent
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  Speaker 2: the famine Some one five sixteen that caused that kind
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  Speaker 2: of action. God sent the ten plagues, which caused enormous
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  Speaker 2: suffering in Egypt. God judged Israel, causing the sack of
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  Speaker 2: Jerusalem with its horrible suffering Lamentations one five. And God
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  Speaker 2: planned and brought about the murder of the Son of
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  Speaker 2: God so that we could be saved, Acts four twenty seven.
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  Speaker 2: There would be no Gospel without the sovereignty of God
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  Speaker 2: designing and bringing about the suffering and death of the
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  Speaker 2: Son of God. But there's an even more important reason
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  Speaker 2: for citing Job forty two eleven. And I think this
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  Speaker 2: is the reason many preachers and scholars ignore the verse.
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  Speaker 2: And it is remarkable how often the verse is ignored
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  Speaker 2: in wrestling with suffering. In Job, some teach that God
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  Speaker 2: only allows suffering but does not cause it, so they
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  Speaker 2: don't agree with this verse, and therefore they try to
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  Speaker 2: avoid it because the verse is the Lord brought the
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  Speaker 2: evil on Job. Other scholars teach that when Job said
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  Speaker 2: in Job one twenty one about his ten children who
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  Speaker 2: had just been killed by a wind collapsing their house.
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  Speaker 2: When he said, the Lord gave and the Lord has
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  Speaker 2: taken away. The Lord has taken my children away. Blessed
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  Speaker 2: be the name of the Lord. These scholars say Job
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  Speaker 2: was wrong to say that. That's what they teach. They
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  Speaker 2: say Job's theology at that point of God's sovereignty was wrong.
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  Speaker 2: In other words, the inspired author, who doesn't make mistake,
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  Speaker 2: was reporting Job's bad theology in the same way that
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  Speaker 2: the author reported the bad theology of elfhaz Bill Dad
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  Speaker 2: and so far later on in the book. That's wrong.
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  Speaker 2: Those scholars are wrong for two reasons at least. The
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  Speaker 2: first is that when Job says the Lord gave and
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  Speaker 2: the Lord has taken away, the Inspired author adds immediately
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  Speaker 2: in verse twenty two of chapter one, in all this,
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  Speaker 2: Job did not sin or charge God with wrong. That's
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  Speaker 2: his very signature to say Job's theology is right. He
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  Speaker 2: didn't leave us in any doubt. That's the inspired author's
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  Speaker 2: way of saying he got it right. Reader. But it's
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  Speaker 2: even more clear that these theologians are wrong because of
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  Speaker 2: Job forty two to eleven. This is the inspired author writing.
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  Speaker 2: This is not quoting any actor in the drama. This
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  Speaker 2: is the inspired author writing. When he says Job's family
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  Speaker 2: comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had
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  Speaker 2: brought upon him. In other words, the author is going
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  Speaker 2: out of his way in chapter one twenty one, chapter two,
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  Speaker 2: verse ten, Chapter forty two eleven to make plain that
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  Speaker 2: God is the decisive cause of Job's suffering. To be sure,
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  Speaker 2: in chapter one, Satan gets God's permission to attack Job's
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  Speaker 2: property and then Job's person. And there's no doubt that
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  Speaker 2: Satan's hand was in Job's suffering, because it says explicitly
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  Speaker 2: in chapter two, verse seven, Satan went out from the
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  Speaker 2: presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome from
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  Speaker 2: the soul of his foot to the crown of his head.
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  Speaker 2: Satan struck him. And when Job's wife tells him to
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  Speaker 2: curse God and die, Job responds with the very theology
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  Speaker 2: of chapter forty two, verse eleven. He says, shall we
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  Speaker 2: receive good from God? And shall we not receive evil?
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  Speaker 2: In other words, God is sovereign over the good times
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  Speaker 2: in our lives, He's sovereign over the painful times in
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  Speaker 2: our lives, including this horrible disease that Satan brought upon me.
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  Speaker 2: Satan's on a leash. He can't do anything that God
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  Speaker 2: doesn't plan for him to do. And the inspired author
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  Speaker 2: of the book adds in two ten. In all this
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  Speaker 2: Job did not sin with his lips. Let me give
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  Speaker 2: one more reason why I answered this brother and his
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  Speaker 2: question in Dubai with Job forty two eleven, and not
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  Speaker 2: simply referring to Satan's secondary causality and God's permissive will.
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  Speaker 2: And I close with this because it is very, very important.
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  Speaker 2: I hope everybody perks up their ears and keeps on
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  Speaker 2: their thinking cap whenever we speak of God permitting something
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  Speaker 2: which he knows will have a specific effect. And that's
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  Speaker 2: all the time. He knows everything. He has perfect foreknowledge
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  Speaker 2: of all things. It's exhaustive. He knows everything that'll come
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  Speaker 2: to pass. How then, does God decide whether to permit
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  Speaker 2: something or not. God does not have to permit anything.
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  Speaker 2: He can permit or not permit. He's God. If he
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  Speaker 2: sees that something he permits will have a painful effect,
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  Speaker 2: he can choose not to permit it. God chooses what
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  Speaker 2: to permit or not to permit on the basis of
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  Speaker 2: his wisdom. Oh, the depth of the riches and the
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  Speaker 2: wisdom and the knowledge of God who has been his counselor.
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  Speaker 2: For from him and through him and to him are
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  Speaker 2: all things. To him be glory forever and ever a
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  Speaker 2: man Roman's eleven thirty three and thirty six. When God's
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  Speaker 2: infinite wisdom permits something and knows all of its effects,
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  Speaker 2: all ten thousand of them, that's an understatement. Then these
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  Speaker 2: are planned effects. God considers them, takes them into account,
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  Speaker 2: wills that they come to pass by what He permits. So,
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  Speaker 2: in the end, infinitely wise, all knowing permission is the
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  Speaker 2: same as bringing something about. And oh how good it
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  Speaker 2: is to know that the permissive will of God and
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  Speaker 2: the more direct will of God are always wise and
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  Speaker 2: always pursuing the highest good for those who trust him.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, sobering. When God permits suffering knowing exactly what it
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  Speaker 1: will produce, his permission is not passive, but his wise, loving,
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  Speaker 1: purposeful plan for our ultimate good. That's a glorious truth,
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  Speaker 1: even if at first it's an uncomfortable and hard truth.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, Pastor John for being willing to go to
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  Speaker 1: hard texts like these and to not only draw our
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  Speaker 1: minds there, but our hearts there as well. And thanks
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  Speaker 1: for joining us today. If you have a question to
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  Speaker 1: ask Pastor John, find a link to email us and
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  Speaker 1: find our complete episode archive at askpastor John dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Every episode with audio and full transcripts available for you
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  Speaker 1: to twenty four seven three sixty five online. Well, how
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  Speaker 1: do we maintain a pure heart and a good conscience
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  Speaker 1: in a world so saturated with corrupting media? That's the
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  Speaker 1: question up next time, I'm Tony Ranky. I'll see you
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  Speaker 1: on Thursday.