Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Episode Four: Michael Chernow, Restaurateur

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Episode Four: Michael Chernow, Restaurateur · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:01
Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome to another episode of Hurdle. Today's episode
0:07
Speaker 1: is brought to you by my sponsor, Ultra Shoes. I
0:11
Speaker 1: am constantly constantly getting questions about what the best sneakers are,
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Speaker 1: to check them out again. That's Ultra Shoes altr If
0:45
Speaker 1: you are just joining me at home, my name is
0:47
Speaker 1: Emily A. Badi, your lovely host and creator.
0:51
Speaker 2: Of this here podcast.
0:52
Speaker 1: I am a certified trainer, run coach, also a writer,
0:56
Speaker 1: editor and now podcaster living here in New York City.
1:00
Speaker 1: Feel free to check me out on social at Emily
1:02
Speaker 1: A Body. That's Abba te.
1:06
Speaker 2: Now a little bit about Hurdle.
1:09
Speaker 1: Hurdle is a podcast that showcases people who got to
1:12
Speaker 1: a tough time in their life a hurdle of sorts
1:15
Speaker 1: and leaned into wellness to get over it, and that
1:18
Speaker 1: can look.
1:19
Speaker 2: Like a lot of things for a lot of different people.
1:21
Speaker 1: For today's guest restaurant Tour Michael Churnew, that meant trading
1:26
Speaker 1: evenings of debauchery his words not mine for hours at
1:30
Speaker 1: the mo we tie, gym and running. Also, if you
1:34
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1:37
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1:42
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1:45
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1:48
Speaker 1: be newsletter at the bottom of the page.
1:51
Speaker 2: Now, the reason for this newsletter is twofold.
1:53
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm taking a page from the one
1:55
Speaker 1: and only Tim Ferriss, who says that newsletters can be
1:58
Speaker 1: way more of a traffic driver to podcast episodes than
2:01
Speaker 1: any sort of social promotion. And secondly, and most importantly,
2:05
Speaker 1: because I think it's another really great opportunity to connect
2:08
Speaker 1: with all of you. I'm loving, loving, loving all of
2:12
Speaker 1: the questions and comments and feedback that's coming through to
2:15
Speaker 1: my email, which again is Emily at hurdle dot us.
2:19
Speaker 1: If you ever want to drop me a line. So
2:21
Speaker 1: in this newsletter, I'll be able to answer some popular
2:24
Speaker 1: asks that I'm getting over there, and also highlight some
2:27
Speaker 1: things I'm into right now like fit gear, food trends,
2:30
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Speaker 1: entrepreneurs that I just.
2:35
Speaker 2: Think are absolutely dope that sort of stuff.
2:39
Speaker 1: Most importantly, also, I'll be able to keep you in
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Speaker 1: the loop on upcoming episodes and highlight hurdles fabulous guests.
2:47
Speaker 2: WHOA that is one jam packed.
2:49
Speaker 1: Newsletter again, Click on over to Hurdle dot Us slash featured,
2:54
Speaker 1: leave me your email, And with that, I think it's
2:58
Speaker 1: time to get started. So today I am sitting here
3:14
Speaker 1: with Michael Churnow. I asked Michael how to describe himself.
3:20
Speaker 2: Michael, what did you say?
3:22
Speaker 3: I think I said something along the lines of the
3:24
Speaker 3: guy that is perpetually looking to be better than yesterday.
3:29
Speaker 1: That's awesome on a daily basis, But he's also got
3:33
Speaker 1: a ton of other accolades, which I'll mention really quickly.
3:37
Speaker 1: He is the founder of Seymour's, a restaurant here in
3:40
Speaker 1: New York City rapidly growing rapidly. He's also a co
3:45
Speaker 1: founder of the Meatball Shop, arguably a new York establishment
3:49
Speaker 1: and a beverage called Well Well, which I'd say essentially
3:54
Speaker 1: is nutritional hydration for.
3:56
Speaker 2: People with active lifestyles.
3:59
Speaker 4: Nailed it, And.
4:00
Speaker 2: Maybe I should do your marketing or so I think.
4:01
Speaker 4: You should actually looking for a marketing director.
4:05
Speaker 2: Mental note. So I'm happy to be sitting here with
4:07
Speaker 2: you today.
4:08
Speaker 1: Why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself
4:10
Speaker 1: toiate going sure well.
4:12
Speaker 3: I am born and raised in New York City. I have
4:15
Speaker 3: lived in Manhattan for the better part of my life.
4:19
Speaker 3: Actually that's not true. I've lived in Brooklyn for the
4:22
Speaker 3: last ten years, and I lived in Brooklyn for two
4:24
Speaker 3: years in my late teens, so I would say third
4:27
Speaker 3: of my life in Brooklyn exactly. Predominantly all New York City.
4:31
Speaker 3: I've always worked in the hospitality business. My first job
4:35
Speaker 3: in a restaurant when I was thirteen, and worked my
4:39
Speaker 3: way up from delivery boy, dishwasher, food runner, buss er,
4:44
Speaker 3: you know, prep cook, every position in the restaurant I've
4:48
Speaker 3: worked in. But ultimately, what I'm really passionate about is
4:52
Speaker 3: the human engagement. I really believe in human connection. I
4:56
Speaker 3: believe in relationships more so than anything. I think the
4:59
Speaker 3: business of business is relationships. And I think the key
5:03
Speaker 3: to happiness is personal relationships.
5:06
Speaker 2: I love that.
5:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's that's like me in a nutshell.
5:10
Speaker 2: A nutshell? What kind of nut? Are we an almond?
5:12
Speaker 2: Are we a walnut?
5:13
Speaker 4: Walnut?
5:13
Speaker 2: Oh? Definitely?
5:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, same all nuts, just juicy, creamy walnuts.
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Speaker 1: So let's take a step back for a second. So
5:22
Speaker 1: you're you're twenty three, You're kind of wrapped up in
5:25
Speaker 1: this industry that is hospitality.
5:27
Speaker 2: What are you kind of doing at that time?
5:29
Speaker 3: At twenty three? I am bartending, okay, at a really
5:33
Speaker 3: fantastic restaurant in the East Village Nice sort of like
5:37
Speaker 3: a hot spot for many years and still is, you know,
5:40
Speaker 3: considered one of New York City's hidden gems. It's been
5:45
Speaker 3: there almost twenty years now. This restaurant is called Frank
5:47
Speaker 3: It's on Second Avenue between fifth and sixth Street. It
5:50
Speaker 3: holds a dear place in my heart. I grew up
5:53
Speaker 3: in that place. I worked there for almost nine years.
5:56
Speaker 1: And did you have a particular kind of moment that
6:00
Speaker 1: made you realize that you kind of needed to pivot
6:03
Speaker 1: from that lifestyle.
6:06
Speaker 3: I think it was a culmination of a number of
6:08
Speaker 3: moments over the over from twenty to twenty three. I
6:12
Speaker 3: had experienced a lot and uh, you know, I had
6:15
Speaker 3: an enormous amount of fun, but I certainly had an
6:18
Speaker 3: enormous amount of hardship. And I reflected a lot within
6:24
Speaker 3: a week's period of time where I was not afraid
6:28
Speaker 3: to say it, but I was like actually like suicidal.
6:30
Speaker 3: I was like really not feeling good about myself. And
6:33
Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was. I didn't know what
6:35
Speaker 3: was going to happen tomorrow because I had nothing planned
6:39
Speaker 3: and I was just going down a road of like,
6:41
Speaker 3: you know, destruction, and everybody would say things to me
6:45
Speaker 3: like Mikey, you're so you're so good, like you're you're
6:49
Speaker 3: like what are you doing?
6:50
Speaker 4: Like why are you doing this? And I, you know, and.
6:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think sometimes we just got to like we
6:57
Speaker 3: got to hit the floor before we climb climbed to
7:00
Speaker 3: the ceiling, So.
7:01
Speaker 2: You hit the floor in the Lower east Side.
7:03
Speaker 4: I hit the floor in the Lower east Side.
7:05
Speaker 3: I got into I got into a community of people
7:07
Speaker 3: that were sort of dealing with the same shit I
7:10
Speaker 3: was dealing with and and it was like an immediate
7:15
Speaker 3: support system that I needed forever and I just didn't
7:18
Speaker 3: have and I didn't know it was.
7:19
Speaker 4: I didn't.
7:19
Speaker 3: I didn't know that that was so accessible. I didn't
7:22
Speaker 3: know it was so easy to just like walk into
7:24
Speaker 3: a room and so many people would like understand what
7:26
Speaker 3: I was dealing with. And so I immersed myself in
7:30
Speaker 3: that community. And that community is alcoholics anonymous. And I
7:36
Speaker 3: don't typically like say that, but you know, I'm you know,
7:41
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not ashamed or afraid of it. I
7:43
Speaker 3: think a lot of people, you know, potentially need to
7:45
Speaker 3: hear that. But yeah, it saved my life, and very
7:50
Speaker 3: very quickly. I mean within a few months, I was
7:55
Speaker 3: like a changed man.
7:58
Speaker 1: Obviously a huge part of that is going to those meetings.
8:00
Speaker 1: At that time, you started becoming more of an active
8:03
Speaker 1: person as well.
8:04
Speaker 3: I completely replaced my debauchery with doing great things with
8:10
Speaker 3: my body, and I became like obsessed. An old friend
8:13
Speaker 3: had introduced me to somebody who they thought would be
8:16
Speaker 3: a person that I would want to.
8:17
Speaker 2: Look up to. Do you mind tell me who that is?
8:19
Speaker 4: Sure?
8:20
Speaker 3: His name is Marcus Anteby. He's the founder of the
8:22
Speaker 3: Juice preass and he became like an older brother to me,
8:25
Speaker 3: and he dragged me immediately into a muy Thai gym.
8:29
Speaker 3: He said man, I'm going to take you to this gym.
8:31
Speaker 3: So he took me to the gym, and I fell
8:33
Speaker 3: in love with muy Thai, like truly fell in love
8:36
Speaker 3: with it. And I didn't have a girlfriend at the time,
8:39
Speaker 3: and all I had was my job, and you know,
8:42
Speaker 3: I was working on salvaging like relationships that I probably
8:45
Speaker 3: burned throughout the process.
8:49
Speaker 1: Quick question, though, what was the new job, because you
8:51
Speaker 1: obviously weren't bartending anymore.
8:52
Speaker 4: I was.
8:53
Speaker 2: You were still bartending.
8:55
Speaker 4: I bartended through the whole thing, and I you know,
8:57
Speaker 4: I owe Frank, the owner.
9:00
Speaker 3: Of Frank Restaurant, an enormous amount of gratitude because he
9:07
Speaker 3: was one of the one of the major catalysts to
9:11
Speaker 3: me figuring it out that I needed to change, because
9:15
Speaker 3: he took me aside and he said, Mike, yeah, I
9:16
Speaker 3: love you.
9:17
Speaker 4: Man. You know I'd been working there since I was
9:19
Speaker 4: twenty and he.
9:20
Speaker 3: Said, You've got more potential than anybody that I've ever
9:24
Speaker 3: had work for me. Your smile lights up a room,
9:28
Speaker 3: and I haven't seen you smile in a while. And
9:31
Speaker 3: I need I either you need to leave this place
9:35
Speaker 3: and figure it out on your own, or I need
9:38
Speaker 3: you to get sober. Wow, and he said, you're going
9:40
Speaker 3: to come to the restaurant if you want your job,
9:42
Speaker 3: otherwise I'm going to fire you. You're going to come
9:44
Speaker 3: to the restaurant for thirty days and meet with the
9:46
Speaker 3: porters and help clean the restaurant. You're going to call
9:48
Speaker 3: me at eight o'clock in the morning. If you call
9:49
Speaker 3: me a minute late, you're done, and you're gonna clean
9:52
Speaker 3: the restaurant. You're gonna get sober. And if you're drinking,
9:54
Speaker 3: you're done. So I'd loved my job so much. I
9:59
Speaker 3: like really was so attached to that job that I
10:02
Speaker 3: did that, and that was, like, you know, that wasn't
10:05
Speaker 3: like the only thing that got me to where I
10:07
Speaker 3: am today, but like that was definitely incredibly motivational for me.
10:11
Speaker 2: That is outstanding.
10:13
Speaker 1: Compare the feeling you started to get of the joy
10:18
Speaker 1: of doing my tie versus the joy that you used
10:21
Speaker 1: to find in all the drinking.
10:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, completely different. Like there was a moment, and I
10:27
Speaker 3: remember it so clearly. I picked up muay Thai and
10:32
Speaker 3: I picked up running, and those were the two things
10:35
Speaker 3: that I just like totally dove into. And I remember
10:39
Speaker 3: running over the Williamsburg Bridge like early on in sobriety
10:43
Speaker 3: and for no reason opening up my arms and feeling
10:48
Speaker 3: like good, like actually feeling good. And I felt that moment,
10:55
Speaker 3: you know, like look, and I remember running and looking
10:58
Speaker 3: up at the at the steel going down, and I
11:01
Speaker 3: was like, my God, like what was I doing for
11:03
Speaker 3: so long? And how could I feel so good right
11:06
Speaker 3: now with no added ingredients?
11:09
Speaker 4: You know? It was just like life.
11:10
Speaker 3: I was like high on life and I felt that,
11:11
Speaker 3: and I was like, I never want to let this go.
11:13
Speaker 3: The challenge of getting through the muck is, in my opinion,
11:19
Speaker 3: what we live for. And I the mantra that I've
11:22
Speaker 3: been saying for the last couple of months is learn
11:25
Speaker 3: to love the hurt and the heart, because if you
11:28
Speaker 3: can learn to love the hurt and the heart, or
11:29
Speaker 3: the heart and the hurt, the joy is just blissful.
11:34
Speaker 2: That's incredible.
11:35
Speaker 1: I feel that to find the joy even in the
11:38
Speaker 1: hard moments, like you're saying, you grow the most when
11:41
Speaker 1: you're trudging through that muck. You can do good times
11:44
Speaker 1: with anyone, but you can't do bad times with everyone,
11:47
Speaker 1: and finding those people that are going to help you
11:49
Speaker 1: get through.
11:50
Speaker 2: Those bad times is essential.
11:52
Speaker 4: Absolutely so.
11:54
Speaker 1: Then today, what's a typical day of wellness or fitness
11:58
Speaker 1: for you, are you still doing of those things?
12:00
Speaker 3: So I'm not doing muay Thai as much as I was,
12:02
Speaker 3: though I still hit the pads in the bags regularly.
12:04
Speaker 3: I'm not like, you know, training to compete and you know,
12:08
Speaker 3: in the gym four hours a day today. For the
12:11
Speaker 3: last about year and a half ish, I've been really
12:14
Speaker 3: focused on weight training. I really love lifting weights, and
12:18
Speaker 3: for ten to eleven years doing muay Thai, there's no
12:21
Speaker 3: weights involved. Every once in a while kettlebells, but like
12:24
Speaker 3: it's predominantly like you want to stay lean and mean
12:27
Speaker 3: and light and fast, and so I love being light
12:31
Speaker 3: and fast, and I still feel like I have that
12:33
Speaker 3: in me, but the weights have added.
12:34
Speaker 4: Just like I just.
12:35
Speaker 3: Enjoy like jumping into the gym, putting my hat down
12:39
Speaker 3: real low, putting on music really loud, and just getting
12:42
Speaker 3: after it. And that's sort of what it is for
12:45
Speaker 3: me today. You know, I'm in the gym five six
12:47
Speaker 3: days a week. The gym and fitness in general is
12:51
Speaker 3: just like my way of escaping. It's my way of
12:54
Speaker 3: blowing off steam. And some people like to sit and
12:57
Speaker 3: meditate for an hour. I enjoy medaation, but I don't
13:01
Speaker 3: think I'd enjoy meditation if I if I didn't didn't
13:05
Speaker 3: physically exert myself.
13:07
Speaker 2: They go hand in hand.
13:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I typically meditate after I work out.
13:10
Speaker 1: Oh well, there see a lot of people are still
13:12
Speaker 1: trying to get on this meditation train.
13:14
Speaker 4: Well I could.
13:15
Speaker 3: I could recommend something please for anyone out there that's
13:18
Speaker 3: looking to do it.
13:19
Speaker 4: Just download Headspace.
13:21
Speaker 1: You know, you're like the third person on this podcast
13:23
Speaker 1: that has said Headspace. Maybe Headspace should start thinking about
13:27
Speaker 1: sponsoring hert.
13:28
Speaker 3: All Headspace is you know for years, like, meditation is
13:33
Speaker 3: definitely recommended on the sobriety train, and it is absolutely
13:41
Speaker 3: an asset for everyone and anyone. Anybody who I know
13:44
Speaker 3: that actually goes in hard on meditation becomes like a meditator.
13:51
Speaker 3: And so I've incorporated into my life not as much
13:54
Speaker 3: as I'd like. I'd love to be able to meditate
13:56
Speaker 3: ten or twenty minutes in the morning, ten or twenty
13:58
Speaker 3: minutes at night.
13:59
Speaker 4: Doesn't actually work like that for me.
14:00
Speaker 2: I'm the same way. I'm the same way.
14:02
Speaker 1: I recently also did a little bit of a challenge
14:05
Speaker 1: with myself with Headspace.
14:06
Speaker 2: I started at five minutes beginning.
14:08
Speaker 1: Of day end of day, update to ten beginning of day,
14:12
Speaker 1: end of the day, and kind of realize that ten
14:14
Speaker 1: was where it's going to stop for me. I at
14:17
Speaker 1: that point can't really focus much longer. But what I
14:20
Speaker 1: did learn with headspace was this idea of how to
14:23
Speaker 1: recognize that you're thinking about something and rather that than
14:26
Speaker 1: really get angry about it, you're like, Okay, I see this,
14:30
Speaker 1: it's happening.
14:31
Speaker 2: I accept this.
14:31
Speaker 1: I'm going to put this to the side and I'm
14:33
Speaker 1: going to move on, which has been man. I went
14:35
Speaker 1: through a breakup recently, and that has been like the
14:38
Speaker 1: tactic of all tactics.
14:40
Speaker 2: Noting the note that's the official term.
14:43
Speaker 1: You exercise, you meditate when you're done exercising, but let's
14:47
Speaker 1: be honest, your whole day is taken up by a
14:49
Speaker 1: lot of other things that aren't wellness. How did you
14:52
Speaker 1: go from the guy at ranks to the guy starting
14:56
Speaker 1: this outstanding restaurant career.
15:00
Speaker 3: I knew when I when I came to the sort
15:03
Speaker 3: of assumption that it wasn't necessarily the food and beverage
15:08
Speaker 3: that that really got.
15:09
Speaker 4: You know, got my gears grinding. It was the people.
15:14
Speaker 3: I knew that that the easiest way to engage was
15:18
Speaker 3: in a restaurant setting because people come there with a
15:21
Speaker 3: problem typically, and the problem is either hunger, thirst, or
15:25
Speaker 3: just they want to they want to feel taken to
15:28
Speaker 3: a different place. And uh, and I'm really good at that.
15:31
Speaker 3: And so the people thing is where I shine. And
15:36
Speaker 3: somebody told me early on, you know, if you focus
15:40
Speaker 3: on people tend to focus on the things that they're
15:42
Speaker 3: not really great at because the things that they're great
15:45
Speaker 3: at are a lot easier to to uh, to portray.
15:50
Speaker 3: So people tend to spend more time on the things
15:52
Speaker 3: that they're not great at because they feel like they
15:54
Speaker 3: need to. So I learned early on that if I
15:58
Speaker 3: don't spend any time focusing on the things that I'm
16:00
Speaker 3: not great at, and focus all my energy or ninety
16:02
Speaker 3: percent of my energy on the things that I am
16:04
Speaker 3: great at, I'll succeed. Once you're able to take your
16:07
Speaker 3: pride in your ego out of things, which is not
16:11
Speaker 3: an easy thing to do, and it always creeps back in.
16:13
Speaker 3: But you know, if you if you if you feel
16:17
Speaker 3: like you have to prove something to someone or even
16:20
Speaker 3: to yourself that you are great at everything, it's a
16:25
Speaker 3: it's a waste of time and space. As far as
16:27
Speaker 3: I'm concerned, and and and I think as far as
16:29
Speaker 3: a lot of successful people are concerned.
16:31
Speaker 4: So I put a lot of my energy, if not
16:32
Speaker 4: all my energy.
16:33
Speaker 3: Into the things that I'm great at, and and I
16:35
Speaker 3: try to find people around me that are better than
16:38
Speaker 3: me in most areas to help me learn and grow,
16:42
Speaker 3: and also to fill the holes where I fall short.
17:01
Speaker 1: Taking a quick break from Tiddy's episode to give a
17:04
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Speaker 1: That's a l TR running dot com. Let's get back
17:56
Speaker 1: to it. I'm back here with my culture now. So okay,
18:12
Speaker 1: you're honing. I'm in on the skills that you know
18:15
Speaker 1: you're good at.
18:16
Speaker 4: Yeah.
18:17
Speaker 3: And so when I was twenty four, I had made
18:20
Speaker 3: a decision that I was going to go to culinary
18:22
Speaker 3: school because I felt like that was a necessary element
18:26
Speaker 3: and it would just look good for me, you know,
18:29
Speaker 3: trying to create a career.
18:31
Speaker 4: And so I went to culinary school.
18:32
Speaker 3: While I was in culinary school, to French Culinary Institute,
18:35
Speaker 3: they had just launched a new program which was a
18:37
Speaker 3: truncated associate's degree in restaurant management, taught by folks at
18:44
Speaker 3: Union Square Hospitality and Cornell professors, and so I hopped
18:49
Speaker 3: on that and I took that, and that was incredible,
18:52
Speaker 3: and it was like the whole process was I think
18:54
Speaker 3: it was around twenty months I got finished with that.
18:58
Speaker 3: At that point, when I was done in school, I
18:59
Speaker 3: knew that I was going to open up a restaurant.
19:01
Speaker 4: I was destined to do it.
19:02
Speaker 3: And I put a plan together and I said, I'm
19:05
Speaker 3: going to finish school, I'm going to write a business plan.
19:06
Speaker 3: I'm going to put it in front of all the
19:08
Speaker 3: regulars at frank that had been watching me for years.
19:12
Speaker 4: And I did just that. I called my best.
19:15
Speaker 3: Friend from childhood who also is in the restaurant business,
19:19
Speaker 3: and he and I had been talking since we were
19:23
Speaker 3: kids about opening up place together. He had moved to California,
19:26
Speaker 3: and I got on the horn with him as soon
19:28
Speaker 3: as I graduated school, and I was like, look, dude,
19:30
Speaker 3: I'm not asking you to do this today, tomorrow or
19:32
Speaker 3: in two months, but I'm here to tell you that,
19:34
Speaker 3: like you and I are going to open up a
19:36
Speaker 3: restaurant together, you got to pack your shit and get.
19:37
Speaker 4: Back to New York.
19:38
Speaker 3: It took him a while to get back, but I
19:40
Speaker 3: got on the I got on the phone with them
19:41
Speaker 3: one day and and he was like, you know, one
19:45
Speaker 3: of his big biggest excuses was that he was in
19:48
Speaker 3: a relationship, and he was like, man, my girlfriend just
19:52
Speaker 3: broke up with me, and I'm so down and like
19:54
Speaker 3: in my in my gut, I was like like on
19:57
Speaker 3: the phone, I was like, oh man, I'm so sorry,
20:00
Speaker 3: but my gut was like, yes, it's perfect. It's like
20:03
Speaker 3: did you just come home for a couple of weeks
20:05
Speaker 3: and we'll hang. And so he came home for a
20:08
Speaker 3: couple of weeks and just never went back. And we
20:10
Speaker 3: built this brand together called the Meatball Shop. I laid
20:13
Speaker 3: the business plan in front of all the regulars at
20:15
Speaker 3: Frank Restaurant, and before we knew we had the money
20:19
Speaker 3: to open up this restaurant.
20:21
Speaker 1: So all of the regulars from Frank were your first investors,
20:24
Speaker 1: about twelve of them.
20:25
Speaker 2: So you open your first meatball shop. Where is it?
20:29
Speaker 3: It is at one eighty four Stanton on stand Street
20:32
Speaker 3: between Orchard and Allen, the Lower east Side. We opened
20:35
Speaker 3: up in February of twenty ten, so we're coming up
20:38
Speaker 3: on eight years this February.
20:39
Speaker 2: Congratulations, Thank you.
20:41
Speaker 1: How long into running that meatball shop did you realize
20:45
Speaker 1: that you were going to open another?
20:47
Speaker 2: And another and another? How many total?
20:51
Speaker 4: Now there's six? Okay, So we Daniel and I both
20:55
Speaker 4: did a bunch of reading.
20:56
Speaker 3: If I could recommend a great book for anybody looking
20:58
Speaker 3: to step into the entrepreneurial world, there's a book called
21:01
Speaker 3: The e Myth Revisited by a guy named Michael Gerber.
21:06
Speaker 3: It's a fantastic book. It's a fantastic read and shed
21:10
Speaker 3: a bunch of light on us.
21:12
Speaker 4: And and then we also read from.
21:14
Speaker 3: Good to Great and what we what we got out
21:16
Speaker 3: of them was trying to open up one business.
21:21
Speaker 4: Is not necessarily the way to go. It was it was.
21:24
Speaker 3: The most successful model in small business is the franchise model.
21:28
Speaker 3: And so we decided that we were going to build
21:31
Speaker 3: this brand with the intention of of opening more. And
21:37
Speaker 3: about four months in it was a home run. From
21:39
Speaker 3: the day we opened the doors, there was a line
21:41
Speaker 3: around the block and it was insane. What happened when
21:43
Speaker 3: we opened up that restaurant. It was totally, totally beyond
21:46
Speaker 3: our wildest dreams.
21:47
Speaker 2: Was it all just word of mouth?
21:48
Speaker 3: We hired a great publicist to help us get the
21:50
Speaker 3: word out. Still my publicist today did a good job,
21:55
Speaker 3: did an amazing job, and still do and nobody looking
22:00
Speaker 3: for a restaurant publicist.
22:01
Speaker 4: Boltz and Companies.
22:05
Speaker 3: But yeah, so we we opened it up and one
22:06
Speaker 3: of the original investors said, you know, you guys have
22:09
Speaker 3: done something really special. I want to help you guys
22:11
Speaker 3: open more. So I'm going to put a deal on
22:13
Speaker 3: the table. You take your time, look at it and
22:16
Speaker 3: and get back to us. And so We looked at
22:19
Speaker 3: it and we're like, Wow, this is like life changing,
22:21
Speaker 3: this is unbelievable.
22:24
Speaker 4: We would be crazy not to take this opportunity.
22:27
Speaker 3: So we went back to all the original investors and said, hey, guys,
22:30
Speaker 3: you know one of you has.
22:32
Speaker 4: Proposed a deal that would that would get us to
22:36
Speaker 4: five restaurants.
22:38
Speaker 3: The problem is that this individual doesn't want to take
22:41
Speaker 3: the whole team on this deal.
22:42
Speaker 4: He wants to do this himself.
22:43
Speaker 3: So we give you the option to meet or beat
22:47
Speaker 3: the deal, so everybody has a fair share. If you
22:49
Speaker 3: guys want to come together and do it, great, But
22:51
Speaker 3: we have to take an opportunity like this because it's
22:54
Speaker 3: not going to come around often. And so the guys
22:57
Speaker 3: were like, God, we wish we could do it, but
22:59
Speaker 3: you know we we wish you well, and we just
23:01
Speaker 3: can't come up with that kind of money. And so
23:03
Speaker 3: we took the deal and we opened up. We opened
23:05
Speaker 3: up one in Williamsburg, one on Greenwich Avenue and Perry
23:09
Speaker 3: Street in the West Village, one on Ninth Avenue and
23:11
Speaker 3: twenty second Street, Upper east Side, and now Hell's Kitchen.
23:16
Speaker 1: I was out of Breeze last week also having a
23:19
Speaker 1: kitchen saying okay, so outstanding.
23:22
Speaker 2: So what was the timeframe on all of those?
23:25
Speaker 4: By twenty it would be we're twenty eighteen.
23:29
Speaker 3: By twenty fourteen, we had we had opened up five,
23:33
Speaker 3: we had opened up six. We unfortunately had to shut
23:35
Speaker 3: a restaurant recently, which was really devastating for us.
23:38
Speaker 4: But we had a bit of a situation with anyway.
23:43
Speaker 3: Not going to get into the details, but it made
23:46
Speaker 3: more sense for us to shut down the restaurant than
23:48
Speaker 3: deal with this situation, and so we did. But by
23:52
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, we had had six restaurants, and that the
23:56
Speaker 3: last one that we opened in twenty fourteen was on
23:59
Speaker 3: the Upper West Side. We recently opened up a restaurant
24:02
Speaker 3: within the last year in Hell's Kitchen on fifty third
24:05
Speaker 3: at nine, So that would have been seven, but it actually.
24:08
Speaker 4: Is now six.
24:09
Speaker 2: Got it all right?
24:10
Speaker 1: So six meatball shops and upon the sixth meatball shop,
24:14
Speaker 1: you decide a meatball shop just isn't enough.
24:18
Speaker 2: You know.
24:19
Speaker 3: It was like it was, it was a bunch of things.
24:20
Speaker 3: What I what I've also learned about myself is that
24:25
Speaker 3: I'm like a real creative, like a real I love
24:28
Speaker 3: I love I love building, I love.
24:30
Speaker 4: I just it's like it's it's it.
24:33
Speaker 3: I'm constantly thinking about new ways to make things better.
24:37
Speaker 3: You know, how can I how can I connect with
24:40
Speaker 3: a specific demographic better. And about five years into the
24:44
Speaker 3: Meatball Shop, I I looked at my partner Dan, and
24:48
Speaker 3: I was like, look, dude, I don't think it needs
24:50
Speaker 3: two captains to run the ship. We were post CEOs
24:52
Speaker 3: pretty much, and I said, I've become really passionate.
24:55
Speaker 4: About sustainable seafood. And I and he knew for years
24:58
Speaker 4: that I was very passionate about seafood.
25:00
Speaker 3: Seafoods like my jam and I did a bunch of
25:03
Speaker 3: research on the oceans and I saw, you know, and
25:05
Speaker 3: what I found out was not awesome.
25:07
Speaker 4: That you know, the fishing.
25:09
Speaker 3: Industry is incredibly unregulated and most of the fish that
25:12
Speaker 3: we eat here, ninety percent of the fish that we
25:14
Speaker 3: eat in the United States is imported, and of that
25:16
Speaker 3: ninety percent, a large portion is unregulated and we don't
25:19
Speaker 3: know actually it's miss labeled and all sorts of bad
25:22
Speaker 3: news going on. So I I said to Dan, I said,
25:25
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna go ahead and and take us
25:27
Speaker 3: big zoom out and and you know, and he was like,
25:30
Speaker 3: of course, cool with this.
25:31
Speaker 4: I mean, I wouldn't have just like left him hanging
25:34
Speaker 4: and it.
25:34
Speaker 3: You know, it was a process, but I really wanted
25:38
Speaker 3: to get creative again. I felt like I was out
25:40
Speaker 3: of creative standstill because I am great at developing the
25:44
Speaker 3: voice of a brand. What we look like, how we talk,
25:47
Speaker 3: we communicate with, who we dance with, who we eat with,
25:50
Speaker 3: like all those things, the people, the people, what we
25:52
Speaker 3: listened to, the culture. And so the culture of the
25:56
Speaker 3: Meatball Shop is like set in stone. It's like it,
25:59
Speaker 3: you know, it happened pretty quickly, and it hasn't really
26:02
Speaker 3: like all, you know, it hasn't. It hasn't faltered much
26:04
Speaker 3: from from the beginning. And so I said, you know,
26:07
Speaker 3: not my job is done here. But but my job
26:10
Speaker 3: currently is not needed as much as it was in
26:13
Speaker 3: the in the early days.
26:15
Speaker 4: And I'm just not a great operations logistics guy. It's
26:19
Speaker 4: just like not my strong.
26:20
Speaker 2: Suit, that's fair.
26:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I decided to with Dan's, you know, blessing,
26:26
Speaker 3: I decided to really focus on this new brand called Seymour's.
26:29
Speaker 3: And Seymour's is a fully sustainable, local, uh fun, approachable
26:35
Speaker 3: seafood concept with great vibes, great energy at an accessible
26:39
Speaker 3: price one awesome.
26:40
Speaker 1: So you've got to Seymours now, yeah, soon to be
26:43
Speaker 1: more Seymours, soon to be more seams and more seamours.
26:47
Speaker 1: So you're a restaurant guy with a passion for fitness.
26:51
Speaker 1: You look back on how far you've come. What's one
26:54
Speaker 1: piece of advice you would have given the guy getting
26:58
Speaker 1: the talking to from his boss at Frank's.
27:01
Speaker 3: Good question. Reacting to life is a mistake. Responding to
27:07
Speaker 3: life is not a mistake. And you know, I think
27:12
Speaker 3: and just sort of just break that down, you know,
27:15
Speaker 3: not giving yourself a moment to breathe, to take a
27:18
Speaker 3: step back, maybe for an hour, maybe for two hours,
27:20
Speaker 3: maybe for a night, before you respond to something that
27:25
Speaker 3: could potentially be paramount in your career and or you know, socially,
27:31
Speaker 3: something that you just totally disagree with and you want
27:33
Speaker 3: to fire back and answer, you want to fireback comment.
27:36
Speaker 4: I've learned that opening up the window a little bit.
27:39
Speaker 3: And letting some air in has been extremely helpful in
27:43
Speaker 3: my career. And one other thing, if you see me
27:47
Speaker 3: at a board meeting these days, I say very little.
27:50
Speaker 4: I say very little.
27:51
Speaker 3: Even that whether I'm the second largest shareholder, largest shareholder,
27:54
Speaker 3: whatever it.
27:55
Speaker 4: Is, at the company.
27:56
Speaker 3: I believe that listening is so much more powerful than
27:59
Speaker 3: way being to speak, because that's what a lot of
28:02
Speaker 3: specifically young entrepreneurial folks want to do. They just they
28:06
Speaker 3: just don't listen, They just wait to speak, or just
28:09
Speaker 3: don't wait at all.
28:10
Speaker 4: And just sort of speak.
28:12
Speaker 3: And so listening has saved my ass many your time
28:17
Speaker 3: listening and responding as opposed to waiting to speak and reacting.
28:23
Speaker 4: That's the piece of advice I would give.
28:24
Speaker 3: I think that that if somebody had told me that
28:27
Speaker 3: early on, I'd probably saved I'd probably saved a couple
28:30
Speaker 3: of years in a couple of bucks.
28:32
Speaker 1: I read something that you did in Whalebone in their
28:37
Speaker 1: new Interview issue. I went to a party for it
28:39
Speaker 1: last night. I picked it up and your name was
28:41
Speaker 1: in there, and I noticed a question that you.
28:43
Speaker 2: Asked that I loved that.
28:45
Speaker 1: I'm going to pose to you when taking on a
28:47
Speaker 1: new project or adventure, where do you look for inspiration
28:51
Speaker 1: and is there something specific you do someone you like
28:54
Speaker 1: to brainstorm with, or do you simply look inside chure?
28:59
Speaker 4: Now, my greatest moments of creativity are on long, slow runs.
29:11
Speaker 4: And because I grew up in New York, I love
29:14
Speaker 4: to go.
29:15
Speaker 3: I love to visit places that I spent a lot
29:18
Speaker 3: of time in as a kid, like Central Park, like
29:22
Speaker 3: the Upper West Side where I went to high school.
29:25
Speaker 3: They evoke sort of feelings and emotions that I haven't
29:30
Speaker 3: had in sometime. And so typically, if if I really
29:33
Speaker 3: want to put some thoughts to something, or if I'm conceptualizing,
29:38
Speaker 3: I will take a run into those neighborhoods and you know,
29:44
Speaker 3: wait to see if something pops in.
29:46
Speaker 4: And I also.
29:47
Speaker 3: I have a house upstate, in Upstate New York, and
29:50
Speaker 3: running in the country for me is a spiritual experience
29:53
Speaker 3: every time. I just I you know, I choose not
29:56
Speaker 3: to run with music when I'm upstate. Creatively, it is
30:00
Speaker 3: it's like opening the floodgates. For me, It's yeah, I
30:05
Speaker 3: don't get that inspiration or I don't feel the innovation
30:11
Speaker 3: internally doing anything else as extreme.
30:16
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how much I relate with that.
30:18
Speaker 1: I picked up running about like eight years ago, and
30:22
Speaker 1: it changed my entire life, not just from a physical aspect,
30:25
Speaker 1: although definitely, but also just emotionally and finding that time
30:28
Speaker 1: to connect with myself. And I also think that recently,
30:32
Speaker 1: you know, starting a podcast, I've started to listen to
30:34
Speaker 1: more podcasts, and I can now go out and run,
30:38
Speaker 1: whether it be outside or on the treadmill, and log
30:40
Speaker 1: fifty minutes easy listening to a podcast and digesting not
30:44
Speaker 1: only what I'm hearing, but then thinking about how it
30:46
Speaker 1: applies to my life and just that like next level
30:49
Speaker 1: amount of inspiration.
30:51
Speaker 2: I get from these sessions.
30:53
Speaker 1: I can't tell you another point in my life aside
30:55
Speaker 1: from right now where I could hop on a treadmill
30:58
Speaker 1: and be like so content forty five minutes.
31:01
Speaker 2: It's bizarre.
31:02
Speaker 1: One final question also another one from Wilboon that has
31:07
Speaker 1: to be so appropriate for you. What is your all
31:10
Speaker 1: time favorite thing to eat? And is there a story
31:14
Speaker 1: or experience attached to that?
31:17
Speaker 3: You know, it's so funny, it goes I think for me,
31:21
Speaker 3: it's so hard. It's like one of the hardest questions.
31:23
Speaker 3: And I think I left that question for the end
31:27
Speaker 3: because I learned something from Tim Ferriss. And Tim Ferriss,
31:33
Speaker 3: you know, he asks fantastic questions and one of his
31:36
Speaker 3: podcasts he goes through his his you know, the way
31:39
Speaker 3: he thinks about asking questions in an interview, and he
31:43
Speaker 3: likes to start with like simple questions, so that there's
31:47
Speaker 3: not like you know, So it's just like it seems
31:49
Speaker 3: to flow. Asking anybody their favorite anything is a tough
31:54
Speaker 3: question right specifically in their field.
31:58
Speaker 4: And so I I love a few things in life.
32:03
Speaker 4: My go to food choices are food that I genuinely
32:09
Speaker 4: really love.
32:11
Speaker 3: Like when I'm craving something, I mean, I know it
32:14
Speaker 3: sounds absurd, but it happens to be the kill and
32:17
Speaker 3: avocado salad from Seamours. It's the one thing that I
32:20
Speaker 3: eat it five six days a week. I never get
32:23
Speaker 3: bored of it. I crave it on the weekends when
32:25
Speaker 3: I'm not in the city. It's the first thing I
32:27
Speaker 3: have on Monday afternoon. It is It's my it's my
32:31
Speaker 3: all time probably it's my. And the funny thing about
32:33
Speaker 3: that salad is that that salad was not developed at Seymours.
32:36
Speaker 3: That salad my wife had been making for us for
32:41
Speaker 3: twelve years. And so I was gonna call that salad
32:43
Speaker 3: to Donna, just because her name is Donna, and it
32:46
Speaker 3: and it always hits the spot for me. Sweet potatoes, avocado, quinoa, kale,
32:52
Speaker 3: really awesome, honey apple vinaigrette, shaved apples. It's just like
32:55
Speaker 3: it's just like sweet and savory.
32:57
Speaker 4: And and and does all this stuff to me?
32:59
Speaker 3: But if I'm swinging for the bleachers here, like I
33:02
Speaker 3: love sushi.
33:03
Speaker 2: Aim for the home run.
33:04
Speaker 4: I love sushi.
33:06
Speaker 3: The story though, is you know, is in the calavocado
33:09
Speaker 3: salad because it's near and dear to me because my
33:11
Speaker 3: wife is the og developer of that salad and I
33:14
Speaker 3: feel like it just hits on all cylinders. Taste, flavor,
33:18
Speaker 3: I mean, flavor, color, crunch, it's all there. And I
33:22
Speaker 3: love sushi because we have many special moments together with sushi,
33:25
Speaker 3: my wife and I. But something from my childhood that
33:29
Speaker 3: I haven't had in a long time that just and
33:33
Speaker 3: it's so far against who I am today, but just
33:35
Speaker 3: a big, humongous bowl of craft mac and.
33:38
Speaker 2: Cheese a classic is like.
33:40
Speaker 3: One of those things that you just can't you know,
33:43
Speaker 3: it's delicious. It's just like it's just insanely delicious.
33:46
Speaker 1: Things that people bond over both fitness and mac and cheese.
33:50
Speaker 2: That's it.
33:50
Speaker 1: That's all you need, man, Michael, thanks so much for
33:53
Speaker 1: coming in. I think we're gonna wrap it here.
33:55
Speaker 2: Cool, good bomb.
33:56
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
33:57
Speaker 1: Please take a moment to leave a quick review by
34:01
Speaker 1: clicking the link with the description to this episode, and
34:04
Speaker 1: while you're at it, send this episode to a friend.
34:06
Speaker 1: Maybe we all face multiple hurdles in life. I want
34:10
Speaker 1: to hear about yours. Reach Out to me at Emily
34:12
Speaker 1: at hurdle dot us, connect with the podcast on Instagram
34:16
Speaker 1: and Twitter at Hurdle Podcast, and of course feel free
34:20
Speaker 1: to stock us both a little bit too.
34:22
Speaker 2: Michael, what's your social.
34:23
Speaker 4: Handle at Michael chernow.
34:25
Speaker 2: And meatball Shop Seymour's all.
34:27
Speaker 3: So, meatball Shop is at Meatballer's. Seymour's is at Seymour's
34:31
Speaker 3: Nice and that's on all handles perfect.
34:35
Speaker 1: My handle at Emily a body. Please make sure to
34:39
Speaker 1: come back, keep hanging out with us. Another hurdle conquered.
34:44
Speaker 1: See you soon,