Latest / Salish Wolf / #84 Jess Bogener on Project Quiver

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#84 Jess Bogener on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

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I'm thrilled to announce the upcoming release of Quiver, The
0:02
Art of Life through Bow Craft. Published by Trope of Chicago,
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this 336 page coffee table book features more than 350
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photographs and explores the legacy of primitive archery
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through the lives and work of 14 of the world's finest
0:16
traditional bowyers. We're launching a special
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Founder's Edition available exclusively through Project
0:21
quiver.com. Each copy includes A numbered
0:24
book plate hand signed by Ella and me and is available only
0:27
during our limited pre sale. The Founder's Edition presale
0:31
begins at the end of June exclusively at
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projectquiver.com. We'd be honored to have your
0:35
support and to share with you our reverence for permitted bow
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craft. Welcome to Project Quiver, a
0:46
father daughter journey across the globe to document the
0:49
artistry and spirit of the world's finest traditional bow
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years. I'm Todd, and Ella is my
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daughter. Together we've traveled to the
0:55
workshops of master bowyers, carving bows under their
0:58
guidance, photographing their work in extraordinary detail and
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preserving the stories behind one of humanity's oldest crafts.
1:05
The result is Quiver, the Art of Life Through Bow Craft, a
1:09
photographic and narrative exploration of traditional bow
1:11
carving. This podcast shares stories and
1:14
experiences of the remarkable individuals who are carrying
1:16
forward the enduring legacy of the bow and arrow.
1:19
The book is Quiver. The journey is Project Quiver.
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Welcome to the Salish Wolf podcast.
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All right, Jess, so nice to meet you.
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Thanks for joining me. Yeah.
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Thanks for having me, Todd. I'm excited.
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What's your last name? Bogner.
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And does that mean you have a family history of archery and
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boat building? No, probably way down the line,
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yeah, I would guess because the name does mean Bow Builder, but
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I found that out actually after I started building bows and did
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a little research on my name. That's that's pretty wild.
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Yeah, right, right. So you don't know anyone in your
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family lineage who was a bow builder?
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Nope, Nope. The that new.
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Of course, that name comes from my dad's side, and I know I knew
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my grandpa, and that's as far as I go there.
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I got to do some digging for that.
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And are they from Germany, Austria.
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Do you know where? Yes, Germany.
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Germany. OK, yeah, it's crazy.
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It's obviously a perfect last name for a bell builder, so it's
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got to be in the history somewhere.
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Yeah, exactly. I found out kind of like right
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after I started building was like, oh, no way.
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You know, I really got to got to do this well, you know.
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When did you start building? I think it was 2021, I believe
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so, yeah, about five years ago. Well, my wife got me an English
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Longbow for my birthday and kind of just really fell in love with
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shooting it. And then of course, I quickly
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ran out of arrows was like, well, man, I should, I should
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Start learning how to, to build these, you know, And then I was
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like, actually, I should just Start learning how to build the
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bows. So I, you know, called the guy
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that built that first Longbow after asking him his name is
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Robbie and called him back. And he's like, hey, you know,
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actually, can you just maybe start teaching me how to build
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some bows? So I started learning from him
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for, I don't know, it was a maybe four or five months.
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I studied under him and then just went off on my own, you
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know, from there. So.
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That's good to see live near you.
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No, he was. He's about an hour and a half
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away, which I guess is pretty near.
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That's pretty close, but. Yeah.
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And and where are you? I'm in Frazier Park, CA.
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OK, all right. And so she you bought sorry, the
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English songbow was a gift from your wife.
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Exactly. And was that just a shot in the
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dark that you might like that, or did you have a history with
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archery or some sort? Of explanation, we met through
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archery. So archery is huge.
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And in my life just yeah, it's, it's huge.
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So pretty much all of our, you know, of our, you know, family
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trips or whatnot, anything's all, you know, tournaments or
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new shop or a new range to go visit.
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Really. OK, so that's something that
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your parents did. No, no money.
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I mean just my wife and I. Yeah.
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So how did you get it? How did you get into it?
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Hunting, of course, I was in with as a kid and then got away
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from it and then, you know, really just wanted to get back
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into it and get back into hunting.
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So that's what brought me back into archery.
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Was this hunting? OK.
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And then you got into tournament shooting.
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Exactly. Yeah, Got to stay, got to stay
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fresh for the fall. Does your wife do it as well?
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Yes, yes she does. And so do you guys travel around
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the tournaments? Yeah, we, let's see, we've been
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up to, we were in Vegas this year, went to Lodi, up to Fresno
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quite a few times. So, you know, pretty much
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anywhere within like 7-8 hours, we try and make past that, you
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know, it's a little tougher, but there's luckily we're so lucky.
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There's so many nice places around us.
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You know, I can drive just a few hours north and and there's just
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amazing, gorgeous ranges and places to go shoot and an
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amazing Archers to to shoot with and learn from also, which is
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just something you can't you can't buy that experience, you
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know. I am so unfamiliar with any of
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archery tournaments or ranges or so when you go to a tournament,
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let's say, what is your objective?
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Are you in it to to excel and to perform at your highest possible
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level? Or is it something you're going
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of course because it's? Yeah, of course.
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I want to do, I want to do better than I did the time
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before, basically. And I, I want to learn and, and
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yeah. And just continue growing.
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And I and all those tournaments are just great practice and good
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skills to hone for. And then in the fall when you're
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in the woods, you know, hunting and you just have that one shot,
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you know? Yeah.
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So and, and it's a lot of fun. You get to meet, you know, like
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minded people that are into what you're into.
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And, and then you travel and, and meet at these different
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places and then go shoot a whole bunch of arrows for a weekend
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and count scores and then see which one of your friends wins.
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You know, it's it's a lot of fun.
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And so when you say you want to do better than the time before,
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is it, I really have no idea how this stuff works.
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So in an archery tournament, is there a standard that you can
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then compare across different tournaments or are there
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different ranges so you can't quite compare like that?
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Yeah, so that's a yes and a no. There's you know that I do a lot
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of or my favorite is the 3D tournaments.
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So you'll go around, hike around and they'll be say any number of
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of targets, we'll say 43 targets.
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So you're going to hike probably 2 miles or so, maybe more.
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Sometimes you can hike 10 miles. You know, it just depends.
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And then from target to target. And then they'll be a scoring
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system like a 1085 scoring say, or it it depends on the
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tournament, but so the you know, the the vital area kill shots
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body would be how the scoring would go.
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Yeah, I did 13D course in Switzerland with Bo your Simon
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Kel. So that was my only time on
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that, but I kind of get the concept of that.
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So that would then be hard to compare performances from course
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to course. And is there a a different type
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of tournament where there's a point system and everything
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standardized and then you can compare your score?
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Yeah, so that would be more of like the USA archery or, you
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know, like Olympic forums, you know, and then there's, you
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know, field archery and FAA all, all different.
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There's so many different types. I'm still learning about the
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different types. I just did AUSA archery last
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weekend. There was a 50M tournament and
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that was, that was my first time doing that and that was a lot of
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fun. It's a hard game.
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That's a hard game to just, you know, sit at a face target 50
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meters away and and shoot 72 arrows in a row at it.
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But it was fun and I think I did pretty good.
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So it was. It was a good, good weekend.
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What are you shooting with? I shot my one of my bows, one of
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my builds that I, I think I built that this winter.
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It's my oh, it's this one right here.
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Actually, I shot this one and this is the one I've been
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competing with all year. OK, So what is that?
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This is the image. The image that I see is blurrier
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than what the final image will be.
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So I can, I can't really see it but.
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Yeah, no problem. The viewers will be able to see
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it. Yeah, this is one of my models.
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It's a it's a Reflex D Flex Longbow and that one is 98 lbs
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at 28 inches. OK.
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And what's it made from? That is, the limbs are cherry
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and E pay the rosewood handle and Ebony overlays.
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Nice, that sounds beautiful. So based on is that you got a
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few bows behind you, So are your bows.
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They're not primitive, at least those aren't.
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Are you making primitive bows as well?
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I've got one right here. That is a bow up there.
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OK, I couldn't quite tell. Yeah, and this is just a little
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Osage, you know, native bow. Beautiful.
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Yeah, it's a lot of this is a 41 LB bow.
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That's just a lot of fun. Yeah, just super simple.
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But it's a lot of fun. I've thought about.
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I'm sure I'll bring this out to a tournament at some point and
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poke around with it because it's nice.
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I don't know, it's just, it's just fun to shoot.
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So when you make bows, how do you are you making more of the
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composite ones than self bows or bit of both?
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Both location is kind of the struggle with getting staves
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with where I'm at. So it's, it's a lot easier for
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me to source other types of wood than than staves.
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But I'm, I'm working on fixing that problem because I like
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buildings. I like building all sorts of
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bows. So I want to get, I need to get
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more staves in in my shop. And I think I've got a good,
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good look on some U some Pacific U that I should be getting in.
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And I've been working on some Osage coming from the Midwest,
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which is where I'm from. So luckily I got a buddy that's
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got a farm out in Kansas and he's like, I got a whole bunch
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of this stuff. I'm like, I just, I need it out
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here. Like, let's, let's get it out
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here. That's awesome, so your teacher,
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did he teach you self bows or composite builds?
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We worked mainly with board bows is what we, I kind of, I bit my
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teeth into laminating and and board bows.
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And again, that's that's just because of what's available
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region here. So and then are you using non
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natural layers in any of yours? Yes, I'm using like Reflex D
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flex bow that I showed you that I'm competing and I'll be
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hunting with this year is a fiberglass.
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It also has carbon fiber stable core in it.
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So it has all the modern stuff and it's kind of my take on an
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English Longbow. Basically all of the the old
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medieval ways to do things with some modern materials that you
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know. Yeah, I've never worked with
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carbon fiber or fiberglass when it comes to bows.
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How is that? Is it complicated to do or is it
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something you learn pretty easily?
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I think that's a tough question too.
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I think it would be probably just just as difficult as as any
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other Ave. or as easy as any other Ave. depending on kind of
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your skill set, what you're familiar with, what you're
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familiar working with. I mean, if you've only done a
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stave, that might frustrate you. And if you've only worked with
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laminates and and glass, a stave I think will really frustrate
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you. They're just, it's just
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different, different animals really.
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Right. Do you have a preference of
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materials to work with you? No, no, I don't have a
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preference. I my preference is.
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Building bows. Is is pretty wood.
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Yeah, yeah, pretty wood to put into bows and and make, make
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beautiful bows that are very functional, highly functional.
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Like I, I want a fast bow that's also stable, that's reliable.
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I want to check all the boxes, you know, I don't want to
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sacrifice a fast bow that that isn't accurate.
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You know, I want to marry all of that is is my goal in building,
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you know. And then what are you doing with
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the Bose? Are you selling them?
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Yes, yes, I'm selling them and I've gotten a couple invites
14:08
this year to, to go to a few of the shoots and set up a little
14:11
tent and stuff so that it, that'll be really fun.
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So people can come and see what I'm building and try it out,
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touch it and feel it. So that's that's fun for me when
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I go to these shoots and people get to see what I'm building and
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and they like it and they get to pull it back and I don't know,
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it's a lot of fun seeing people's faces light up and see
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something that that I think's new.
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But it also is familiar, you know, because it's it's a bow
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that nothing really is new unless you're all going compound
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or kind of crazy bare bow stuff or but, but it everything's
14:47
pretty much been done. But it's nice to kind of put a
14:49
new, I don't know, your own stamp on it, your own artwork
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and, and have people, I don't know, get excited about it.
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That's fun for me. Yeah.
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And is this a business for you, or a hobby or a bit of both?
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I would a bit of both. OK.
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Do you have other work outside of both building?
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Yes, I'm a general contractor, so I build homes, remodel homes,
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ground up homes, restaurants, you name it.
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I pretty much build it so. OK.
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So you're, you're used to working with materials like
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this. So that's, that's probably
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helpful, isn't it? Yes, definitely helpful.
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And that's one thing that there's also, if you were, you
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know, going back to the family and the bloodline, I was talking
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to my dad because he's a contractor and I knew that my
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grandpa was also a contractor. I was like, oh, I guess dad, I'm
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a third generation. He's like, Oh no, you're a
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fourth generation. So my yeah, my great grandpa
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that I didn't meet is also a contractor, so.
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And was it the influence of your dad that got you into it?
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No, it's just something I wanted to do.
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I mean, woodworking, my dad does that.
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But no, it's really, it's kind of on my own, Todd, just
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something I just really like, like doing and fell into.
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I love building. Yeah.
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So it's something I'll. And I love shooting bows.
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So I don't, you know, make my own art and then get to sling
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the arrows, you know? And as far as far as a general
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contractor, were you influenced by your ancestors, your father
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and your grandfather to do that? I think so.
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And I think that's probably just subconscious it's.
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Just what you get out knowing. Yeah, and it just feels natural.
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I I love wood. I love working with trees and
16:43
and nature and thing. That's why I like, you know,
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love being in the woods and all that.
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I also have a greenhouse where I have all sorts of different
16:50
bonsais and all sorts of. Plans nice.
16:54
Yeah. Yeah.
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Are you? Do you know Pete Woodland?
16:58
Excuse me, Do you know Pete Woodland of Heritage Bose?
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I don't no. OK, I think he's heard of
17:06
heritage Bose, but. Yeah, he's a Bowyer.
17:09
He's featured in our our upcoming book and he's on
17:12
Vancouver Island and he has like 100 bonsais which was passed
17:17
down to him from I believe his grandfather.
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So his, his whole backyard is either bow related or bonsai
17:24
related and it's really cool. He's also, he's not a general
17:27
contractor, he's a landscaper, but he builds all of the
17:30
structures and everything. So you guys have a lot of
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similarities. Yeah, that's awesome.
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He loves his bonsais. How long you been into bonsais?
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I got into that before bow making honestly, probably 10
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years ago or so. How many do you have?
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Oh, I don't know. That's a bad question.
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Don't, don't count them. Yeah, don't, don't count them.
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Are they inside or outside or a bit of both?
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They're everywhere, really, they're everywhere.
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There'd be some in here if there was sunlight to grow them, you
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know. Do you know how old the oldest
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is? I do not.
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I don't. No.
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I don't, I guess I don't know the rules enough to break them,
18:21
if that makes sense of bonsai because there's a, there's a lot
18:24
of them, but I I really just enjoy growing the plants and and
18:31
planting and just being in with them.
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I don't, I don't know enough about the, the real art and the,
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the rules to really say I'm, I know I'm doing it wrong.
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We'll just say that. But but they're growing and
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they're happy and they make me happy when, you know, working
18:50
with them. So.
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Awesome, so archery is probably in your family family lineage,
18:57
but you're not sure how did you become so taken by it and your
19:01
wife? You know, I, we say, you know,
19:08
when you're at it. And so, you know, if you, you
19:11
catch the bug basically and you first pick up the bow.
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And I, I think that just, yeah, just picked up the bow.
19:18
And I knew from the first first shot, you know, this is always
19:24
going to be a part of what I do, you know, and just continue to
19:28
get better at it. When was the next shot?
19:34
Oh, the little PSE Stinger compound bow.
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When you were a kid or. No, that's what I getting back
19:42
into it. When I was a kid, those would
19:45
have been the little plastic camp bows, you know?
19:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I had a neighbor that had
19:53
a compound bow, and I remember that was quickly taken from me
19:58
when an arrow was found on the roof of the house.
20:01
Yeah, yeah. Nice.
20:05
So in your more mature state, when did you get it back into
20:10
it? Oh, that would have been.
20:14
I pretty much started building about the same time.
20:18
OK. So really, when your wife jumped
20:20
back, gifted you a bow? So yeah.
20:22
It would have been about 8 months before I started
20:26
building. Wow, so you really went all in
20:29
in the last what? Yeah. 7-8 years.
20:33
Yeah, cool. Definitely tell me a bit about
20:35
the business side of it. And I also just before I forget,
20:39
I tried to go onto your website right before we hopped on and it
20:42
says it's expired. I know.
20:44
Yeah, I've got to figure it. Out.
20:46
I had seen it. I had seen it before.
20:49
Yeah, and I had it up. I just got to figure it out.
20:52
It's paid for. I don't know what's wrong with
20:53
it, So OK, But thank you. Thanks for letting me know.
20:57
Yeah. So what is it?
20:58
Yeah. Tell me a bit about your
20:59
business model. Well, so my goal, what I, I want
21:07
is to be known for making a just a high quality bow.
21:12
That's that's my goal. I want to be up there with just
21:15
all the makers. Like I don't, I want to say like
21:19
this, it's just the preference of which bow you like more, but
21:23
they're all top quality. You know, that's my opinion.
21:26
When you go buy a, a truck, you know, people, some people say
21:28
Ford or whatever is the best, but you've got Ford, Chevy, you
21:32
know, in a Ram. In my opinion, they're all great
21:34
trucks. It's just which truck do you
21:36
like the best? I want a Bogner Bo to be in with
21:41
the names of all those other great makers.
21:43
That's that's my goal with it. And so for a business model
21:48
that's tough because I kind of want to grow with whatever it
21:51
needs. I want it to work with me.
21:54
I don't ever want it to be cumbersome.
21:55
I have a business, I'm a general contractor.
21:59
This I want to work with me and work with with all that at work.
22:03
So I want to work with with the Archer that wants one of my bows
22:07
and and help create to make to make that beautiful and make his
22:11
bow the best 1. You know, I want each one I make
22:14
to be the best one. Basically is is kind of where
22:18
where I'm at with it. And are you, have you created a
22:22
signature style or are you moving in that direction of
22:26
finding that bogan or bow that is your innovation?
22:30
I think this reflex D flex design that I have that I'm
22:35
working right now is that I feel like that that's that bow.
22:39
It's it's it's really turning heads and as far as its
22:43
shootability, it's it's the best I've ever built and one of the
22:47
best I've ever shot it. I digest.
22:51
I'll speak that highly of it. I really like the design and
22:55
it's it's kind of funny. Also, I kind of just like with
22:59
knowing what my name is, I thought I came up with that all
23:02
on my own, too. And then I opened up Byron
23:07
Ferguson's book Become the Arrow, and, well, there that
23:12
design is, you know, writing the book with all the different
23:15
longbows and a table of contents, basically.
23:20
Yeah. So yeah, not my idea but a
23:24
beautiful designed bow and and I I really do like the Reflex D
23:29
flex design with the Longbow. And when you get these staves
23:36
that you're trying to get, do you think there will be a change
23:40
in direction to more carving self bows or you think you're
23:43
probably you got a lot of laminate bows ahead of you?
23:51
Both things I want to do both things I want to have a lot of
23:53
laminate bows ahead of me. And I also I also really like
23:57
making English longbows and I, I don't want to make another
24:01
English Longbow until I have AU stave.
24:04
I want to make a true English Longbow and I and I also really
24:08
enjoy making flat bows. Osage is great for those.
24:12
I mean, even you make some really beautiful flat bows.
24:15
So and I see a lot of those too. As soon as I I can get that
24:19
those that good, those good staves in my hands and in my
24:22
shop, I'll be making sawdust all day.
24:28
And are you teaching other people to build?
24:33
No, not right now, but, but that's been asked of me and I
24:39
would, it's just to to figure out how to do that.
24:45
I live kind of in the mountains in a little remote town.
24:49
So you could come and travel and I'll, I'll teach.
24:52
It's just a lot of time. And that's how I had to learn.
24:56
I drove an hour and a half, you know, a few times a week for
25:00
multiple hours, you know, to, to learn.
25:06
So like I could do that. Having like a workshop on a
25:09
weekend, I think would be hard. It'd just be hard to get to get
25:14
to completion. It just bow making takes time
25:16
and patience for sure. Are the laminate bows with the
25:21
modern materials more? Do they take longer to make or
25:27
about the same or less? There's, there's more steps I
25:36
would say in the laminate process.
25:45
Just I think more things to keep track of as far as time.
25:51
I don't, I don't, that's a tough question too.
25:54
I mean, it depends on a stave. You could have a character stave
25:57
that they could just turn you and, you know, give you all
26:01
sorts of trouble and take you lots of time.
26:03
Or you could have just the straightest stave and just, you
26:06
know, take your draw knife and you know, and get it to shape
26:09
pretty quickly. Yeah.
26:12
You know, yeah. OK, yeah.
26:15
And have you, I'm, I'm this is, I'm such a purist when it comes
26:20
to bows. Like I love building self bows
26:21
from natural materials. That's why I've never worked
26:24
with any of the modern materials.
26:26
So forgive me for asking you, but are you ever considering
26:29
trying to not have the modern materials and replace those with
26:33
ancient materials such as bamboo or sinew or other laminate
26:37
layers? Are you experimenting with that
26:39
as well? Yes, I've been the the one that
26:42
I was have right here. The knocks are gluing up.
26:46
That's the video I showed you this morning.
26:49
This light piece here is bamboo. So I do use a lot of bamboo in
26:53
with the laminates too. This bow up here is bamboo on
26:57
both the belly and the back. So I use a lot of bamboo also.
27:05
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really, I got in with the laminates
27:07
because of of the quality of materials that I have.
27:13
There's consistency in it too, I would imagine.
27:16
Exactly. Exactly so.
27:21
Yeah, and then your wife is into archery.
27:25
Did you guys meet through archery or did you get into?
27:29
Yeah, she was working at a shop and walked in and yeah, that's
27:33
pretty much from there. Yeah.
27:36
They basically went home and told my folks I was going to
27:38
marry that woman. And then now it wasn't a few
27:41
months after that that I asked her to marry me.
27:43
Really. Wow, that's awesome.
27:45
Do you guys have any kids yet? No, not yet, not yet, not yet.
27:51
No, we're, we're that's in our future and taking this time
27:56
right now to compete and. So she's just taking the, the
28:00
competition is a it's a serious thing for you.
28:02
Are you competing to to win? Yeah, yeah, she, she's been
28:09
doing really well. She won a state tournament and
28:13
then a national tournament. So she she won Berbo at bTB this
28:18
year and she's gearing up and getting ready to go to worlds,
28:22
the world trials. So wow, super excited for her.
28:26
Yeah. And is she using a bog in her
28:29
bow? No, she's shooting a Hoyt Berbo.
28:32
OK, is she making any bows with you?
28:36
And I may have even said that wrong.
28:38
It's a Hoyt. I'm not sure exactly.
28:40
Yeah, I make these, you know, I shoot long bows.
28:45
Is she making bows too? No, she's not making bows, but
28:51
last season she competed with a a bow that I made.
28:55
I mean she's just diving into bare bow right now.
28:57
And when you compete, is it only with your bows?
29:01
Yes, yeah, I've only yeah, I've only done competitions with with
29:06
my bows, Yeah. And I even used to, you know,
29:10
hunt with compound. But now I'm I'm just all about
29:13
these. I've just really fall in love
29:14
with the Longbow. Yeah, and what is your?
29:18
What is your? Goal.
29:19
What's your goal with the competitions?
29:22
Oh, just to to continue getting better.
29:26
Some of these guys that I shoot with and I believe some of them
29:30
might be well into their 80s shooting you sticks or putting
29:35
up scores that are unbelievable. So yeah, I have a long way to,
29:40
when I say it, keep getting better.
29:41
I'm I need to like to be up with these guys that I'm looking up
29:46
to is good as them. I have to improve like hundreds
29:49
of points on my scores. I mean, these guys are legends.
29:52
They're it's really incredible looking up to them, getting to
29:56
go to these shoots, watching them shoot, pick up little tips
29:59
from them. Just being around some of these
30:02
guys is just just special, honestly.
30:06
That's incredible. And are, are there different
30:07
categories then? So are there the like the
30:10
primitive bow category and the laminate bow or deposit bow?
30:13
And yeah, OK. Yep, the so the like my bows
30:20
would just go into Longbow and I shoot wood arrows.
30:23
So if they have the category I'm going to be in Longbow wood,
30:29
which that gets interesting to it.
30:32
The category is because traditionally Longbow should
30:35
just be wood arrows. So Longbow class should just be
30:38
called Longbow and it it's shot with wood arrows.
30:41
And then you would have, you know, Longbow aluminum carbon,
30:44
they're shooting aluminum carbon arrows, but I think that's just
30:47
become more popular aluminum carbon arrows.
30:50
So it's kind of flipped and now it's specified Longbow wood.
30:55
And then there would be the primitive class, which would be
30:59
just a stave or depending where you go, sometimes they'll
31:04
include like the Victorian Longbow which would have
31:07
laminates. Sometimes they just want it just
31:09
one piece of wood. For the permit, so in the in the
31:13
Longbow category, would there be anyone shooting just an English
31:17
Longbow S bow or would they be in the permit of a class?
31:21
They'd probably shoot in the either this there's there's a
31:25
primitive in some of the tournaments and sometimes
31:27
there's a self bow class. So they would probably be in
31:31
either one of those would or My thoughts on that.
31:36
Yeah, all right. Nice.
31:38
And you mentioned you wanted to carve an English Longbow if you
31:40
carved one before with not. You would, yes.
31:43
OK, yeah, I've built a a whole bunch of English longbows, but
31:49
not out of a stave and not out of you.
31:52
And that's why I the next one I do.
31:55
Must be a true you stave and a true English Longbow.
32:01
So what are some of your favourites woods and layers to
32:06
have? And let's say I'm familiar with
32:08
English Longbow build so and I've made a lot of laminate
32:11
English Longbow. So what are some of your
32:12
favorite layers for an English laminate?
32:16
Oh, for English Longbow, I made a really pretty bamboo backed
32:23
purple hardcore African bloodwood belly.
32:31
It came out at 74 lbs. Yeah, it's a beautiful Longbow.
32:36
Yeah, that was a nice one. That's probably 1 of that's one
32:41
of my favorite Elbs that I've made for sure.
32:45
And used of, of course, a bunch of.
32:47
Excuse me? Yeah.
32:48
No, go ahead. And of course, you know, made a
32:51
bunch of Hickory. I think hickory's is a starting
32:54
Boyer. You know, that's your for here
32:58
in the States anyway, That's your wood pick up Hickory.
33:01
And it's funny, I've listened heard some boyers in England.
33:06
They're just dying to get some, some Hickory.
33:09
It's like, you know what I mean, Go grab it out of my wood pile.
33:12
They'd probably feel the same way with you that I want, you
33:15
know? It's just whatever you have, you
33:17
know? Of course, I, I made a lot of
33:21
laminates with Purple Heart and then I kind of got tired of it.
33:25
I don't know, I felt like just wasn't delivering, but I
33:28
probably just got tired of it because I was using it so much.
33:32
But what are some of the other ones that you use?
33:36
I like E pay Cherry. Cherry's a fast wood wing, gay
33:42
wing gaze. I'm I'm really liking paired
33:46
with bamboo. Yeah, it's beautiful.
33:49
Yeah. Zebra wood.
33:53
I just finished up a really pretty zebra wood bow.
33:55
Zebra wood and E pay. Yeah.
34:01
Nice. I got into working a lot with
34:03
the tropical woods because I'm in Costa Rica most of the time
34:06
and the Hickory bows and EU bows that I brought down here, a lot
34:09
of them are failing in the humidity.
34:11
And so I was getting frustrated because I hate it when a bow
34:14
breaks, especially a self bow that I've made or that one of my
34:18
T-shirts has made. So I started getting into
34:20
laminates using tropical woods for that reason, trying to
34:22
figure out how can I deal with the humidity and the heat here
34:26
and create bows that are going to function.
34:27
And so that's, that's how I got into the pal Darko on the yellow
34:31
or the Purple Heart and the E pay and, and, and they all seem
34:36
to have done pretty well here. I've been struggling to find
34:39
good backs because I haven't had access.
34:41
I made all my bows in Canada originally and so I didn't
34:44
really have a good source of bamboo, so I was using typically
34:47
Hickory on the back and I just found that was mixed results.
34:53
Yeah, depends for sure. I think sometimes you don't know
34:57
until you until you try the you know it's hidden in the wood,
35:01
so. Yeah, yeah, I and I still
35:04
haven't made a bamboo back from, but I would like to do some
35:06
bamboo because that's yeah, that's a that's a pretty awesome
35:11
material for both. I've worked with bamboo.
35:14
I, I made a Yumi bow with Stefon Tim.
35:16
So I have made a bamboo bow, but I have not made, I don't think
35:20
I've made just either a flat bow or a long bow with bamboo
35:23
backing. I might be wrong, but I don't
35:25
think I have yeah. Shoe, we were closer.
35:31
I'd toss you some bamboo. I got 40 pieces of my shop over
35:35
here. What's your shop like?
35:39
So the room right here is the back of my shop.
35:45
So I split it in half. So this is basically my office
35:48
in here for all my construction work, my workout stuffs right
35:53
here that you can't see. And then the front parts all my
35:57
wood shop. So I split my my garage in half
36:00
basically. So the front part of my garage
36:02
is all my wood shop and then then it spreads out into my yard
36:10
all all other tools. So I just have little stations
36:13
kind of all over and. All so I I envision that with
36:19
the modern materials you sometimes use, you're using also
36:22
more modern tools. Is that be the case?
36:24
Oh, 100%, yeah, 100%. OK.
36:27
What are you using? Table saws, belt Sanders, you
36:31
name it, I use it. Yeah, I have all the hand tools
36:35
and draw knives and planers. But with the laminate bow you're
36:37
not drawing, it's, it's, it's not a stave.
36:40
It's, you know, you're using belt Sanders and table saws and,
36:47
you know, all that, all the modern stuff you're using for
36:51
these bows. I also have an oven that I made
36:55
that I cook them in. So it gets up to about 220°.
36:59
And that's what, you know, holds the shape, holds the forms.
37:02
And yeah. And I use an air system to
37:07
compress them when I laminate them together.
37:10
So I fill, you know, fill a hose up with air, and it compresses
37:15
all of my laminates. And then I cook it in the oven
37:18
for about four hours. Yeah.
37:20
So that's. How I put it up?
37:22
The gluing processes in the oven.
37:26
Oh yeah, 100%. I was looking to see if I have
37:29
any other pieces here. Yeah, one second.
37:44
So yeah, like here, here's a piece of wind gate that'll go
37:47
into a bow. Yeah.
37:52
Yeah. So I I do a lot of my till when
37:56
it's in this phase. OK.
37:59
Just my pieces, so I'll measure all of this until each
38:03
individual piece all the way down before I glue up is how I
38:09
make weight a lot of times. So you're pre tailoring the bows
38:14
before the glue up? Yep.
38:17
OK. And then is there additional
38:20
tillering that you need to do after the glue up?
38:24
Yes, then then you're going to pull down of course on your on
38:29
your fades. Yeah, yeah, OK.
38:35
For the next step, but a lot of it's coming, coming in from here
38:40
before the glue up is where a lot of the pills coming.
38:44
For the fades, are you still using power tools for that or is
38:47
that more hand tools? Oh, you're going to use power
38:50
tools. You'd be sitting there a very
38:53
long time. It's it's already hours and
38:55
hours it takes probably, I say between like 40 to 70 hours a
39:00
bow. And I think with sandpaper you
39:04
could probably quadruple that time.
39:07
Wow, so it does take probably longer than to make.
39:13
It. Takes a lot primitive bow.
39:16
I think, I think I can bust a stave out pretty quick.
39:20
These there's a lot of lot of steps and a lot of things to
39:24
remember in each step. Yeah, a lot of mistakes.
39:28
A lot of I know because I've made a most of them.
39:32
I think I've made all the mistakes, but I'm sure I'll find
39:35
another one that I haven't made yet.
39:38
Exactly. So then I this all sounds pretty
39:41
high tech and way beyond my my expertise.
39:44
So are you ever having delamination then of layers or
39:47
are these things bomper? I'm going to.
39:50
I'm going to knock on wood here. I haven't had any failures for a
39:55
while, but making bows is breaking bows.
40:01
That's going to happen at some point again, but I think I've,
40:04
I've got my process fine-tuned that I haven't blown any up in
40:10
quite some time. But but you figure out how I
40:16
think basically you learn how to blow a bow up before you learn
40:19
how not to, you know, and you learn all the different ways to
40:22
break them. Yeah.
40:24
Makes sense? Yeah.
40:27
So then how accurate are you? If you set out to make a bow of
40:33
a specific draw weight and length, are you able to achieve
40:37
that pretty close to what you set out to do?
40:39
Yes, now I am. Now I can get within a few
40:45
pounds, but that's taken a lot of a lot of work, a lot of
40:51
notes. But now I have a formula that a
40:56
mathematical formula that I use for the different woods for and
41:01
thicknesses and how many I'm going to put together.
41:05
I have different math equations for it that I use.
41:08
Wow, that's fancy stuff. And then how much of that, so to
41:16
get that final draw weight, how much of that is coming from the
41:20
pre tiller versus how much comes from shaping the fades?
41:24
It's most it's mostly all in my notes and in what all the work I
41:28
do beforehand. The the pretty similar stuff,
41:31
Yeah, the pretty. Glutes exactly because I know
41:35
what what I'm going to make this model of bow at where I'm going
41:41
to start at where my fades I'm I'm doing that the same.
41:44
So what I'm changing is is the thicknesses in in the middle so
41:52
I can have fine tuning after the glue up, but most of most all of
41:59
it is coming from my math and my thicknesses of each individual
42:05
piece before glue up. OK, Yeah.
42:08
So this is such a deviation from most of it.
42:12
And I have made, I've made a lot of laminate bows, but even those
42:15
are more kind of in a far less modern and more primitive.
42:21
Like I'm not I, I'm cutting strips all, maybe not all the
42:25
same thickness, but I'm not pre tillering or anything, gluing
42:28
them up and then shaping a bow out of that.
42:31
I, I never know what I'm going to get really until the end.
42:33
So I, I rarely get, and this is I don't work with laminus
42:36
anymore so much. I'm more now just focused on
42:39
self bows. But when I was in that phase
42:41
where I was trying to create bows that would survive in Costa
42:43
Rica, that's what I was doing. I was just like gluing a bunch
42:46
of layers together. Seeing what you got.
42:49
I see what I got, like I kind of knew what needed to be the back
42:52
and I kind of knew what worked for the belly and the core.
42:54
But as far as like what the final outcome was going to be, I
42:57
would never know. So you're in this precision
43:00
oriented thing and so I'm. That's how I figured it out.
43:03
Exactly what you're saying is how I figured it out.
43:07
And then keeping notes is how I figured it out.
43:10
And then, yeah, I that's, that's how I figured it out.
43:16
And then it gets real easy when you make a bow that's 100 lbs.
43:22
Yeah, because. You know your math gets a lot
43:25
easier. So I guess then that leads me to
43:31
wonder what is the therapeutic capacity then for you carving
43:38
one of these bows? Because I know with a lot of bow
43:41
yours carving primitive bows from staves, we get lost in it.
43:45
And it is true therapy. It's like our meditation.
43:48
Are you finding that still with the power tools and everything?
43:52
It's it's still. There for you 100% it's exactly
43:56
that's cool exactly the 100% that's yeah you hours just go
44:02
away. And is that the same for you
44:04
whether you're working with the stave versus doing the
44:07
laminates? Yeah, 100% the same, yeah.
44:12
That's cool. Yeah, it is.
44:15
Yeah. Yeah, you get lost in it.
44:18
It's hard to explain. Yeah.
44:21
So going deeper into that, I guess what are some of the big
44:25
lessons or big things that you've learned through bow
44:28
making that have been applicable in other areas of life?
44:32
My goodness, patience, patience and patience.
44:37
That's a. Common one.
44:41
And then of course, and I, I think this is something I was
44:44
lucky. I was just, I was born with, but
44:47
perseverance just keep, keep going, you know, keep trying.
44:54
And, and it doesn't mean that you can't be hard on yourself.
44:58
I think you definitely need to be nice to yourself and talk to
45:02
yourself nicely, but it doesn't mean that you can't hold
45:05
yourself to high standards and expect expect high things of
45:09
yourself. I don't think I think that's you
45:13
can do that and still be nice to yourself and just and keep yeah,
45:18
just keep going. You know, just learn, learn when
45:21
something happens. I mean, I've got one right here
45:23
that I messed up on this one I missed.
45:28
I didn't include this in my blow up failures because I glued the
45:33
glass upside down. But.
45:38
I can do that. Yeah.
45:41
Damn. So yeah, but this one of them
45:43
would have been really pretty. But I got it over here as a
45:49
reminder. And what was that?
45:52
Was that a wow crash? Was that a a lapse in patience
46:00
or what? Was it, you know, you know what
46:04
I think it was because I've never even thought about gluing
46:09
the glass on backwards until that day before that glue up.
46:15
Oh, it actually crossed your mind before you did that.
46:18
Yeah. So I think that's really
46:20
interesting. So I think it's like, like when
46:22
you're driving a car, don't look where you're going, look where
46:24
you want to go, you know, like when you're shooting the arrow,
46:29
look you're, you want to look where you want that arrow to go,
46:33
you know? Interesting, how many bows are
46:37
you making? Is it a once a week or one a
46:42
week or? You know, it depends.
46:46
Sometimes it's more than that. I'll make a few in a week.
46:51
Sometimes it just depends on if I.
46:54
But you just said they take 40 to 70 hours to make and you have
46:58
a full time job outside of that. Yeah, sometimes I'll be in
47:02
between jobs so I have time to be in the shop.
47:06
I also usually have more than one bow at a time going in
47:11
different stages of the process so that I can keep working.
47:17
Because if I've got one in the oven and I can't keep working,
47:21
and if I'm on a roll I want to keep working.
47:23
Like, oh, this one that fell down, this one's this isn't
47:28
finished yet. Let's just roughed out in the
47:31
floor tilled. So that's one that I'll just go
47:34
back to and just whittle away at.
47:37
Oh well, this is so this is a glass bow on the back, but not
47:45
the belly. So this you can work with all
47:48
the draw. Well, not I wouldn't use draw
47:49
knives on this because it's E pay, but you know, like the card
47:52
scrapers or your knife or or whatnot.
47:56
So you so this type of style what is worked similar to a self
48:00
bow and it and it has glass. Is that 100% E pay and then just
48:04
with fiber OS? It's E pay Purple Heart.
48:09
OK, that's where my my resolutions not good enough to
48:15
see that. So OK, I was going to say that
48:17
looks like a heavy bow if that's all E pay.
48:20
It's it is, but it's not finished yet.
48:24
Yeah. So yeah, it's it's the bendy
48:27
stick, not a bow yet. And then if you don't mind me
48:35
asking or if you don't mind sharing, how much does one of
48:37
your bow sell for? They start at 6:50.
48:42
So I try and I try and. That seems really cheap if
48:45
you're putting 40 to 70 hours in those things.
48:48
Exactly. I want I want to continue making
48:51
bows. Wow.
48:53
That's my goal at it. I have a job, you know, where I
48:56
make money. I want to continue making bows,
49:01
so I try and price them at a point that's affordable, that
49:04
you can buy the bow if you want it and be excited about it, and
49:09
I'm able to continue building. So you're building them for the
49:14
passion of building them. 100% and one of the reasons why I
49:19
started selling them is because there was like probably 12 of
49:23
them on the back of my couch and and.
49:26
That's not where bows are supposed to be hanging out.
49:30
All the hangers were full, like, oh, my living room's insane.
49:34
I'm sure everyone you talk to this podcast, it's the same, you
49:37
know, but. That's cool.
49:41
All right, Well, tell me then a bit about the well, the stick
49:45
with the therapeutic aspect. But let's now take that into
49:47
archery. Do you find archery's
49:49
therapeutic? 100% also archery, hunting,
49:55
patience, all that goes with it. With my bow hunting trips,
50:04
personal growth is one of the big kind of catch phrases that
50:09
my hunting buddy and I have because every single trip, every
50:13
time we're out, it's just bounds of personal growth.
50:17
Just learn so much more of those things and learn so much more
50:20
about yourself. I feel like then it's that's
50:24
just priceless, you know? And how much of that, it's
50:28
probably hard to quantify, but how much of that personal growth
50:30
are you learning in situ, like when you're out there hunting in
50:33
the moment versus how much you're learning after you
50:36
reflect on it? Because it's often the really
50:39
shitty, miserable times that we learn the most from.
50:42
Are you sitting in the shitty times going well?
50:45
This is a great learning experience.
50:46
A. 100% I think there's probably a little bit of column A&B, but
50:54
it's probably more on the reflection, you know, and then
50:57
after say success after that and realizing what you had to do to
51:02
get it and and pushing through. And then that comes with bow
51:06
making success on a new build, success on a shot that you've
51:12
been hard with, with shooting the archery to to the hunt.
51:16
You know, like last year I wasn't successful deer hunting
51:21
and I was out so much all season.
51:24
I haunted him so much. But it was probably the best
51:27
year I've had hunting, if that makes sense.
51:30
And I didn't get a deer. It was just, I don't know.
51:37
It was just one of those years, you know?
51:40
So the best outcome for yourself personally and your growth, not
51:43
so much for your freezer. Exactly.
51:46
No, I would have loved to have been successful last year, don't
51:49
get me wrong, but but the season was incredible.
51:53
And then how did how did you navigate not getting frustrated
51:58
by not getting a deer and yet still having such?
52:02
Well, I think experience, well, I think you do get frustrated.
52:05
At least I do get extremely frustrated.
52:09
I think both things can be true, at least they are for me.
52:12
I can enjoy my time there and and realize how much I grew, how
52:15
much I learned all the experiences I had and appreciate
52:22
all of that, but still be a little bummed, you know, I
52:24
didn't get a deer. Why was it so successful for
52:28
you? What stands out as being making
52:30
it such an amazing hunting season?
52:32
So many moments. I mean, one of the first, just
52:35
so many moments and memories. Lots of personal growth,
52:39
emotional things, but I'll share with you a story.
52:43
I watched a doe for about 15 minutes and I was like what is
52:49
that doe doing? The doe is just acting so weird.
52:52
And I saw the doe take off over this way on the mountain and
52:56
then I saw a bobcat run up a tree and then a hawk fly out of
53:01
the tree and then the bobcat jump out of the trees.
53:06
The bobcat, I'm guessing, was hunting the hawk, which is
53:09
weird. I don't never seen.
53:12
I don't know. That's weird.
53:13
And then I watched that doe chase that bobcat around for 45
53:17
minutes around the side of a mountain.
53:20
Yeah. And that bobcat wanted nothing
53:22
to do with that doe. And it was that doe was pissed.
53:25
It was so funny. Yeah. 45 minutes, just all
53:29
around the mountain. The cat would jump up a tree,
53:31
down the tree, try and run away. And yeah, it was incredible.
53:35
So that that's just one story, you know, And there's that all,
53:40
all fall was just full of moments like that.
53:42
So. Are you going out on lengthy
53:45
hunting expeditions or is this mostly after work?
53:48
Before work, day-to-day stuff. All the above.
53:53
When it's deer season, if I'm not at work, I'm pretty much in
53:56
the mountains if I'm not asleep. And luckily I live in the
53:59
National Forest, so I, I could just go to the end of my street
54:04
and take a walk and be in the National Forest.
54:07
So I'm I'm really lucky where where I live in the mountains
54:12
and it's just my backyard, so. That's awesome.
54:17
What do you do with when you do have a successful kill?
54:21
Are you using everything or are there parts that you're not
54:25
using? Pretty much.
54:29
I mean everything. And I'm not making spoons out of
54:32
the bones, no, but I'm eating everything.
54:38
Are you using any of the any of the carcass or anything in your
54:42
bone building, any of the antlers or the leather or?
54:46
Yes, I use. I do.
54:48
I use the antlers, of course, for tip overlays, things of that
54:53
nature. I'd like to start getting into
54:55
some inlay things. I've seen some really cool work
54:58
from some guys overseas in their long bows.
55:01
I'd like to incorporate that. It's really pretty.
55:06
And then I'd like to have, I mean, last Mohicans, come on,
55:11
you know, I want those pants. Are you are you doing?
55:16
Are you taking the hide and brain sanding or something?
55:21
I'm learning that right now. I got I got a rabbit in my
55:25
freezer that I just haven't been able to dress yet that because
55:32
all of my harvest in the past, I try and hire somebody to do my
55:36
skin and I give him $100 deposit and I never see my skin.
55:41
That's happened every time. What's the excuse?
55:47
The last one he said I didn't give it to him or something.
55:50
I don't. It's always something
55:52
ridiculous. So yeah, yeah.
55:55
So I'm over that So. 1010 In your own heights, yeah.
55:58
Exactly. I think it's the universe
56:01
telling you you need to learn this skill.
56:04
Yep, 100%. Do you use any leather at all in
56:07
your bells? I don't see any in the back.
56:09
Oh, you did on the Osage right? Was that a leather handle on it?
56:12
Yeah, I'll do some leather wraps sometimes.
56:17
It depends. It just depends.
56:19
I'm, I really like the wood and the woodworking.
56:22
So if I would rather have like like this, personally, it's
56:30
because I like the, I like the wood and I like, I just, I like
56:34
that feel better. But I, I do leather wraps, you
56:41
know, people like them. So I'll put a leather wrap on it
56:43
and it kind of gives you a little bit of a shelf too.
56:46
If if that's what you like, you know.
56:48
Yeah, so you're shooting off the hand with all your boss.
56:51
No shelves, Yeah. Yeah, I shoot off my knuckle.
56:54
Yeah. OK.
56:55
And then so let's talk a bit about your shooting and what
56:58
you've learned from that and kind of your shooting style.
57:00
But my first question is, which I ask a lot of people, do you
57:04
shoot ambidextrously then, since your bows don't have a shelf?
57:08
I do not. OK, No, I don't.
57:12
Have you tried? No, no.
57:15
And I'm kind of smiling because my dad was a pro baseball
57:19
player, played in the MLB, Texas, Cincinnati and Baltimore.
57:24
So as a little kid, he tried to teach me both sides of the plate
57:27
and to be a switch hitter. And it wasn't that long before
57:31
he just picked me up and put me back on the right side of the
57:34
plate. So that's.
57:36
Not where you belong. Yeah.
57:41
So your can your bows though be used by both left-handed and
57:44
right-handed? Yeah, they yeah, they they're
57:46
ambidextrous. They both shoot that's cool out
57:48
of. Both hands.
57:49
Yeah. Yeah.
57:50
You haven't tried. Oh, it is just so backwards.
57:54
I have I've, I mean, I've gotten to hear, you know, and just
57:58
like. Just it always, it shocks me
58:04
because it's just, it's something that right from the
58:07
beginning I was doing on both sides.
58:08
So it just became completely natural to me.
58:10
And I don't. I don't feel a difference at all
58:14
except for on my off side I have an extra half inch of draw
58:17
length. So I figure I must have some
58:19
injury or something that is opening one side up or keeping
58:22
the other side closed down a bit more.
58:25
Interesting. Other than that, it's and of
58:29
course, I think we're all one eye dominant.
58:30
So I I'm right eye dominant. So I definitely shoot better
58:33
using my right eye to aim than my left, but that's definitely
58:38
that's come around. I'm not, it's not as it's not as
58:42
good as my right eye, but aiming with my left eye is definitely
58:45
improved. I just noticed that mine
58:48
switched. Really.
58:50
Yeah, I was marking something out on a bow and it was like
58:55
what? That marks off what, you know
58:58
what the heck? And then looked and I was
59:01
looking with my left eye. I.
59:03
Didn't know I could switch. I'm right.
59:04
Yeah, mine switched, but I shoot with both of them open.
59:09
I do too. I'm both eyes opened, Yeah.
59:12
I am too, but I think it's typically you're kind of your
59:15
back eyes during most of the aiming, or at least that's what
59:17
I believe. But it hasn't affected your
59:19
shooting that that switch. I I think it, I think it did.
59:25
I didn't notice it. That's a big thing.
59:28
Yeah, and I and I didn't notice it until I figured it out.
59:33
Wow. When I made that mark, I was
59:35
like, oh, what the heck. Oh, I was looking at my left
59:37
eye. So I'm just conscious of it
59:41
because I think, I think I use both of them pretty strongly and
59:47
I think that's why I noticed that it may have flipped over.
59:49
See, now you're you are ready to shoot the other side again.
59:53
The universe is giving you some hits.
59:55
Tan your own down leather and try shooting the other side.
59:58
Let's do it. Let's go.
1:00:01
So tell me about your shooting style.
1:00:04
I teach people here to shoot with my my primitive bows.
1:00:08
I'm not teaching them for any sort of career in archery.
1:00:11
I'm teaching them more of a martial art type of style,
1:00:15
coming into their breath, into their body, fully meditative
1:00:18
state. What is your archery practice
1:00:21
look like? I think that's beautiful what
1:00:24
you just said. If, if I was teaching somebody
1:00:28
that's new, my goal is to get them hooked on archery.
1:00:31
So my goal is it is to have them to teach them how to have fun
1:00:35
with the bow and arrow basically, and to want to get
1:00:37
better and come back for, for me shooting.
1:00:43
I started, you know, with the English Longbow.
1:00:47
And then when I started with that, I wanted to pull a 200 LB
1:00:51
bow, which is a little obnoxious I see now.
1:00:57
But I do like pulling. Yeah, but I do I've, I've given
1:01:01
up that goal. It's not a, it doesn't excite me
1:01:04
anymore, although it is really cool.
1:01:07
And the people that do that, it's awesome.
1:01:11
But that's just not my goal. I want to be accurate with a
1:01:14
heavy bow. I do shoot heavy.
1:01:16
I shoot heavy poundage. It's just what comes natural to
1:01:19
me. I mean, I work construction.
1:01:21
I lift stuff, so 60 lbs to me doesn't.
1:01:24
It's just I'm I feel like I could just keep pulling it.
1:01:28
So I do like shooting heavyweight.
1:01:30
What is the range that you shoot in?
1:01:34
I'm, I mean, I'll shoot any bow, but I'm, I'm comfortable.
1:01:38
I really like, you know, my, my competition bows, 98 lbs yeah.
1:01:45
So I can I'll shoot that forever.
1:01:47
You know I I'll get tired eventually, but.
1:01:52
And so that's kind of your, I always say there's kind of that
1:01:56
sweet spot or that Goldilocks spot where you've reached that
1:01:59
balance between the draw weight and your accuracy and you're
1:02:03
finding with 98 lbs you're. The most accurate.
1:02:07
I I like it. I'm still getting better.
1:02:10
Yeah, of course. And, and I just built this bow
1:02:14
in February, I think. So it's still a new bow for me
1:02:21
and we're getting to know each other still, but I absolutely
1:02:24
love it. Is that a 98 pounder?
1:02:26
Yeah, yeah, it's the one I've been pulling off the wall there,
1:02:29
the cherry, and yeah, they go. I really enjoy it.
1:02:32
And so as you get so-called better, does that also mean
1:02:37
you're changing your draw weight with time?
1:02:39
Is it going up? Is it going down?
1:02:43
That's also an interesting question.
1:02:45
So my bow that I was shooting with last season was 94 lbs.
1:02:50
OK. And then I built a bow at 80 lbs
1:02:57
and, and really like that it was, it was the prototype for
1:03:00
this Reflex D flex design. And that's just when I just fell
1:03:03
in love with this design. And then I've then I built, I've
1:03:08
built a whole bunch of, I built quite a few over 100 lbs, almost
1:03:12
£120 for somebody in Wisconsin. The the guy's a beast, and those
1:03:17
were a lot of fun. But those are, you know, that's
1:03:19
a little much to pull for me anyway, especially of your day.
1:03:25
Yeah. That's what I was going to say.
1:03:27
Yeah, a few times, OK, but, well, not for me.
1:03:29
I couldn't. But I and.
1:03:31
Be accurate with. It for 100 times.
1:03:33
That's that's a lot of that's a lot of weight that you're
1:03:36
pulling. Sorry, go ahead and finish and
1:03:38
then I'll ask more questions. Oh, you're good, you're good.
1:03:41
And then so you were then you were asking about shooting
1:03:43
process. So I, I used to have more of
1:03:46
the, the old English, or at least what I thought was the old
1:03:50
English style of drawing, or at least how I was taught to do it.
1:03:55
But I think I was doing quite a few things wrong.
1:04:00
So I've, I've switched over, I've, I'm kind of doing a hybrid
1:04:07
of what I think is right from the old English style and
1:04:11
basically the Olympic, USA, Olympic standards shooting
1:04:16
process. Enlighten me.
1:04:19
I know nothing about I know nothing about any of the
1:04:22
formalities. I I'm self-taught and then I
1:04:24
teach people what I think works for them.
1:04:26
So I'm not teaching from any formula or any any book or
1:04:30
anything. So what's the difference in
1:04:32
those that those two that you just said the Olympic versus the
1:04:35
English Longbow? Well, it's a, it's a shot
1:04:38
process that that they use the, the Olympic recurves with, it's
1:04:44
a, you know, the recurve bows and they're shooting some shoot
1:04:48
heavier weight, but you're, they're generally at 40 lbs,
1:04:51
give or take. And it's, and it's a shot
1:04:56
process that to stay, to stay consistent, I feel like, and to
1:05:01
not get hurt, to use your body muscles and skeletal system in
1:05:07
a, in a process in a way that, and I think it's easy, easily
1:05:11
commutative. So it breaks it down into shoot.
1:05:17
I'm, I'm biffing on this because it's either 11 or 12.
1:05:21
They changed it, but, but it's a shot process of either 11 or 12
1:05:24
steps. I can't remember if they
1:05:26
combined it one and made it 11 or if they added a process and
1:05:30
made it 12. That sounds like a lot of steps.
1:05:33
Yeah, but most then most of it can can really be broken down
1:05:37
into basically just your foundation kind of footwork and
1:05:42
then like draw, follow through, expand.
1:05:44
But it, but it is as you get deeper into it, different things
1:05:48
with expansion back tension in with your release and with, in
1:05:54
all through your back. Because really nothing should be
1:05:57
all in here. And especially if you're pulling
1:05:59
100 lbs over and over again, you're going to have all sorts
1:06:04
of issues if you're pulling with your, your arms, you know, So I,
1:06:08
I, I draw my bow back with my body, you know, a lot, just your
1:06:15
whole body, a lot of core back muscles and pulling in through
1:06:20
expanding, expanding into your back through your shot process,
1:06:26
through your shot. So with the heavier bows that
1:06:29
you're pulling hundreds and hundreds of times, and by
1:06:32
shooting only one sided, are you not finding that you're
1:06:36
developing 1 sided injuries or over development on one side or
1:06:41
under development on one? Well, I think I'm also lucky to
1:06:46
have been born into an athlete family.
1:06:50
So, I mean, I played baseball in college and I was kind of raised
1:06:54
to play professional baseball. So I treat my archery pulling
1:06:59
heavy poundage very similar to when I was a pitcher in college.
1:07:04
I have my routines. I have my workout routines.
1:07:07
I lift weights either before I go to work in the morning,
1:07:11
construction or I come home after and lift weights.
1:07:14
I have routines and shop process routines also.
1:07:19
So if I know if I'm going to a competition, I'm going to
1:07:23
measure my practice, I'm going to shoot.
1:07:26
I try, I usually try and keep it at 30 arrows because I know
1:07:31
that's never going to happen. So I say 30 and that's going to
1:07:34
end up to be like 53. So that's why I'll limit myself
1:07:40
to 30 because I'm not limiting myself.
1:07:42
I don't really start counting until I'm, I don't know.
1:07:45
I just say 30 because I know it's going to be about 50 and
1:07:47
then I'm not shooting 112, you know, and then because you can't
1:07:52
build muscle when your Tejika is constantly tearing it down.
1:07:56
So you have to have to regimen it and and be smart about it.
1:08:01
And I don't just shoot the 100 LB bow all the time too.
1:08:05
You know, I build bows. So a lot of these are a lot of
1:08:07
fun. This 40 LB little native bow is
1:08:09
just a blast to shoot too. So I'll shoot different,
1:08:14
different weights also and mix it up, which I know a lot of
1:08:18
people say that that's how you're going to, you can injure
1:08:21
yourself and, but I, I don't know, I'm, I'm different.
1:08:25
I I work out a lot and my job's working out too, so.
1:08:28
Yeah, I'm. Just physical all the time.
1:08:31
So maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like archery then is part
1:08:34
of you're treating it as part of a muscle building thing at times
1:08:37
too. Is that?
1:08:39
Do I hear you right or not so much?
1:08:44
Yes, not so much as like I'm treated doing archery to get
1:08:49
jacked and and build muscle, but I, I know that I'm shooting a
1:08:55
heavy pound bow and I know my body and I have to treat it
1:08:59
similar to I equate it to when I played baseball with pitches.
1:09:05
There's only so many pitches a pitcher can throw.
1:09:09
If they don't, you know, take care of themselves.
1:09:12
Yeah, so kind of similar. And I think archery is, is very
1:09:16
similar. People injure all the times
1:09:18
injure and they do it with a 20 LB bow.
1:09:22
It's not, you know. Are you then doing and maybe you
1:09:27
already covered this, but are you done doing like cable draws
1:09:29
or anything on the opposite side to to offset the imbalance?
1:09:35
Well, yeah, I, I mean, I guess, I guess the answer would be yes,
1:09:39
because I'm doing all sorts of different weightlifting
1:09:42
workouts, cable machines, free weights.
1:09:48
And then of course at work, you know, I'm throwing 90 LB bags of
1:09:51
concrete around all the time. Lumber too, but you know, you
1:09:55
name it, you know it's a construction site, so.
1:10:01
Big strongman shoe, heavy bow. Yeah, Accurately.
1:10:05
Accurately. Getting there, working on it,
1:10:08
working on that, getting better, getting better.
1:10:11
That's awesome. Cool.
1:10:12
Well, you have any questions or any more things that you want to
1:10:15
add before we go to bed? I'm going to go to bed soon.
1:10:18
Yeah, me too. Yeah, early, early morning for
1:10:21
me again too. But but yeah, no, Todd, I'm just
1:10:24
thank you for reaching out and that really meant a lot you
1:10:29
asking me to be on here. I really appreciate it.
1:10:31
Yeah, my pleasure. I looked up, you know, and
1:10:35
looked on your page and a lot of the guys that I look up to have
1:10:37
been on here. So I think that's really neat.
1:10:40
So thank you, Todd. My pleasure, Where can people
1:10:43
find out more about you? You got an Instagram and you got
1:10:46
a website that's down but might soon be up.
1:10:49
Yep. So my, you know, websites,
1:10:52
bognerbows.com, it'll be up. It'll be up back soon.
1:10:57
As you figure this out. Yeah, exactly.
1:11:00
It'll probably be out before this publishes because this will
1:11:02
be a couple weeks. Perfect, perfect.
1:11:05
And then on Instagram, Bogner under score bow Builder.
1:11:10
So it's my last name. BOGENER Bow Builder.
1:11:13
So OK, I would love to hear more about your exploration or your
1:11:19
research into your ancestry. If you find any bow builders in
1:11:21
your past, I think that'd be a really cool thing.
1:11:24
I'll see what I'll try and look into that, see what I can do,
1:11:27
Tom. One of the bow years that I
1:11:29
worked with Jake Fenwick from Fenwick bows, he's in New
1:11:33
Brunswick and his made it his mother's maiden name is Archer
1:11:36
and so and they're they're a British family.
1:11:38
So he's he was he was pretty excited when he found that in
1:11:41
his family history that there's definitely some archery there.
1:11:44
So I'm sure boganer it's it's got to mean you have someone
1:11:47
down the line that was doing this.
1:11:49
I'm sure it's in your DNA. That's awesome.
1:11:54
Well, thank you, Jess. Really appreciate it and thanks
1:11:56
for taking the time to Share your story and keep up the good
1:12:00
work man it's awesome. Thank you, Todd.
1:12:03
Appreciate it. Thank you.
1:12:10
Thanks for listening to Project Quiver on Salish Wolf.
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