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Luther Goes to Rome: Corruption, Crisis, and the Breakthrough in Romans · Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture

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  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome to Thanking Christian. I'm doctor James Spencer,
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  Speaker 2: So let's get started.
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  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back to this segment of Thinking Christian.
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  Speaker 1: We just finished talking a little bit about Martin Luther
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: and his conscience and some of the things that his
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: conscience ultimately led him to. And so in this segment,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: what we want to talk about a little bit is
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: what was done to try to shake Martin Luther out
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  Speaker 1: of this sort of downward cycle we might call it,
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  Speaker 1: that he was on. And one of the first things
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: that his mentor triede was to send them to Rome.
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  Speaker 1: And so I want to talk a little bit about
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  Speaker 1: what he found in Rome and then ultimately what he
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  Speaker 1: finds in Vittenberg. But maybe before that, let's talk a
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  Speaker 1: little bit about the context of the Augustinian monetary necessary,
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  Speaker 1: what they're practicing there and how that matched up with
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  Speaker 1: the actual teachings of Augustine, not in depth, but just
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  Speaker 1: in general. So what's going on in this Augustinian monastery
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  Speaker 1: we've already mentioned, you know, they're kind of taking care
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  Speaker 1: of the things in daily life. They're begging on the street.
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  Speaker 1: This is a fairly poor regiment. But what sort of
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  Speaker 1: things are they doing there as a cadence of life
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  Speaker 1: and particularly from a religious perspective.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, they're following the Augustinian order, which is an
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  Speaker 3: order that you know, Augustine is writing. So in that sense,
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  Speaker 3: there are they are Augustinian, I think the layer that's
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  Speaker 3: on top. And well, let me back up a little bit. Sure,
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  Speaker 3: there's a tendency to try to make Augustine either Roman
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  Speaker 3: Catholic or Protestant. So is he Roman Catholic or Protestant?
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  Speaker 3: And the answer to that is yes. Yeah. He believed
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  Speaker 3: in purgatory, he accepted the apocrypha, he believed in justification
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  Speaker 3: by faith. He talked about the necessity of good works.
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  Speaker 3: So you've got this, all these things that you and
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  Speaker 3: I see as incompatible because we're post Reformation.
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  Speaker 2: He is not. He is not.
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  Speaker 3: Forced to make the kinds of decisions that we are
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  Speaker 3: being forced to make ironically because of Luther. So the
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  Speaker 3: piece that's layered on top is there's a whole bunch
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  Speaker 3: of stuff that has been added post Augustine into Catholic
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: thought and practice that we've talked about in previous programs.
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  Speaker 3: We talked about seven old Sacramental system and.
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  Speaker 2: Da da da da Da Da Da da da Da.
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  Speaker 3: So those layers are all on top, and this is
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  Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say, more Pelagian in orientation.
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  Speaker 2: That's a kind of big term.
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  Speaker 3: There's more of an emphasis on free will in that
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  Speaker 3: sense in the medieval Catholic Church than than there is
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  Speaker 3: in Augustine himself or Augustine depending on whether you're from
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  Speaker 3: the North of the South.
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  Speaker 2: I guess I don't know whatever. And so.
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  Speaker 3: Is it pure Augustinianism, No? Is it Augustinianism, Yes, it's
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  Speaker 3: Augustinian and this Augustinianism being practiced in the context of
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  Speaker 3: late medieval early modern Europe Catholicism. So there's there's a
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  Speaker 3: layer on top, and that layer is both reinforcing elements
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  Speaker 3: but also adding elements to the whole Augustinian piece.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, and the Augustinian monks, and this may be delving
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  Speaker 1: into an area where or maybe.
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  Speaker 2: We just have to decide. We don't know right now.
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  Speaker 1: But if you were to look at a at a
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  Speaker 1: Dominican monastery at the time, and then you're to compare
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  Speaker 1: it to the Augustinian monastery, I'm envisioning some commonalities, but
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  Speaker 1: I'm also envisioning some really vast differences. So you know,
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  Speaker 1: daily life still has to be taking care of, right,
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  Speaker 1: But within a Dominican monastery, I'm almost picturing like and
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  Speaker 1: maybe i'm you can correct this picture, but you know,
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  Speaker 1: a Dominican monastery, I almost view it as like there's
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  Speaker 1: going to be a hierarchy in the rookies that are
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  Speaker 1: coming in are really taking care of most of the
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  Speaker 1: menial labor tasks to support the intellectual and spiritual life
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  Speaker 1: of the upper tier monks, and then you move up
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  Speaker 1: the ranks, almost like the army, right versus what I
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  Speaker 1: think I understand the Yugustinian side is like, yeah, there
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  Speaker 1: may be a hierarchy, there's seniority, there's you know, different things,
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  Speaker 1: but we're all really just involved in this impoverished lifestyle
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  Speaker 1: and really trying to live it as best we can.
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  Speaker 2: How fair is that characterization? Fairly fair? Okay.
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  Speaker 3: The difference is Dominicans tended to be associated with the
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  Speaker 3: upper class in terms of their ministry. Yeah, so they're
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  Speaker 3: not a begging order. They're they're a wealth that they have,
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  Speaker 3: they have more money.
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  Speaker 1: They're getting donations essentially from this upper echelon of people
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  Speaker 1: within society.
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  Speaker 2: The better support that. So if who who is who are.
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  Speaker 3: The ministers around the court, They're likely to be Dominicans.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: The Augustinians are not going to be hanging out with
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  Speaker 3: the prince very much, so there they tend to be.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's a fair Yeah, I don't. I don't
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  Speaker 3: believe that Dominicans are a begging order the same way
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  Speaker 3: Augustinians are. And the the Augustinian order in air Fort
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  Speaker 3: is they don't have cash. It's a poor order. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: they are not well funded. Maybe that's another way to
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  Speaker 3: put it.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I almost envisioned and I realize any of
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  Speaker 1: these analogies have we're gonna have their shortcomings. But when
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  Speaker 1: I think about the Augustinian monks, my mind goes to
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  Speaker 1: the Jesus people in the nineteen seventies, right, you know,
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  Speaker 1: like almost the hippies who are just coming into town
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  Speaker 1: to say Jesus with people they really don't have that much,
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  Speaker 1: and you're kind of like, why is this strange person here.
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  Speaker 1: You know, he's saying he has something for me, but
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  Speaker 1: it sure seems like he wants something from me too,
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  Speaker 1: you know, that kind of idea. And we did hear
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  Speaker 1: about this when we visited the Augustinian monastery in Germany.
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  Speaker 1: We hear a little about the community's negative reception of
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  Speaker 1: the Augustinian monks when they come and sort of the
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  Speaker 1: winding road that brought them to the place where they
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  Speaker 1: actually then could build a monastery in what was essentially
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  Speaker 1: a marsh or swamp area there in the town. They
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  Speaker 1: gave him the most worthless piece of land they could
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  Speaker 1: find and said, here, use this exactly.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah that, Yeah, you're you're getting the picture. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not an expert on every order in every place
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  Speaker 3: throughout the Empire, throughout Europe, but my understanding is it
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  Speaker 3: was less prestigious to be an Augustinian than it was
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  Speaker 3: to be a Dominican.
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  Speaker 2: Example.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so we've got this Augustinian order that sort
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  Speaker 1: of has a that's been contextualized or immersed within this
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  Speaker 1: particular time and place. So it's taking on the character
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  Speaker 1: of that particular time and place, but it's still at
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  Speaker 1: its core has sort of a backbone that's Augustinian.
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  Speaker 2: That's not working for Luther.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we talked last episode about all these different
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  Speaker 1: things Luther's doing, spending eight hours in confession, beating himself,
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  Speaker 1: all these different areas, and his mentor then ultimately sends
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  Speaker 1: him to Rome, hoping I think he's if I remember right, well,
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  Speaker 1: maybe you can just explain it why he sends him
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  Speaker 1: to Rome, what task he's actually sending him there to do,
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  Speaker 1: and then what Luther's impression is of Rome. Having visited
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  Speaker 1: and lived there for a bit.
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  Speaker 3: There's a dispute that develops among the Augustinians, and I
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  Speaker 3: don't remember exactly.
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  Speaker 2: What it was, but he gives.
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  Speaker 3: Luther the opportunity to go to Rome. He hopes part
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  Speaker 3: of this will be going to Rome will loosen lessen
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  Speaker 3: some of this burden that he's struggling. Luther's very excited
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  Speaker 3: about this. He gets to Rome and what he finds, frankly,
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  Speaker 3: just discuss him. Rome is fairly corrupt. There is a
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  Speaker 3: high degree of corruption in the church.
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  Speaker 2: There is.
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  Speaker 3: Lots of illicit sexual activity going on among the clergy.
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  Speaker 3: There is the buying and selling of trinkets all over
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  Speaker 3: the place. He is appalled by what he finds, frankly.
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  Speaker 2: And so.
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  Speaker 3: Instead of this loosening his burden, he comes back disenchanted
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  Speaker 3: by what he sees. And so at this point there's
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  Speaker 3: this new university that's developing.
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  Speaker 2: He knows that Luther is very.
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  Speaker 3: Smart, and so he gives him an opportunity to go
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  Speaker 3: study the scriptures at this new university in Wittenberg. The
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  Speaker 3: crown prince there is Frederick the Wise. He has one
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  Speaker 3: of the largest collections of relics, which the irony here
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  Speaker 3: is this gets you time off purgatory.
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  Speaker 2: So he is going to bite.
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  Speaker 3: The hand that feeds him, and so he sends Luther
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  Speaker 3: there to get his doctorate in theology, which is basically
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  Speaker 3: means he's going to lecture from or preach from the
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  Speaker 3: scriptures virtually every day of the week. That's eventually what
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  Speaker 3: he's going to end up doing.
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  Speaker 1: So he doesn't it's not like a trade showing we
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  Speaker 1: hear go and get a doctorate. It's not that traditional
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  Speaker 1: sort of I'm going to sit in the library and
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  Speaker 1: research amounts of stuff and then eventually write a paper
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  Speaker 1: that nobody reads. It's a little bit more pastoral and focus,
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  Speaker 1: although there is deep study and research involved.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, I cannot tell you the details of the curriculum
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  Speaker 3: in an early modern doctoral program, but I do know
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  Speaker 3: it would have been rigorous study. It would have been
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  Speaker 3: significant time working through texts in original languages. And this
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  Speaker 3: would have been on the cusp of the Renaissance. The
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  Speaker 3: Renaissance is moving up from Italy into Germany, and so,
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  Speaker 3: for example, fifteen sixteen, Erasmus's Greek New Testament appears. There's
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  Speaker 3: all this new interest in texts and original languages moving
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  Speaker 3: beyond the Latin et ceterac, et cetera, et cetera, And
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  Speaker 3: so Luther is going to be going to texts and
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  Speaker 3: going to text in the original languages, and that's going
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  Speaker 3: to be revolutionary for him, non Latin texts, both Latin
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  Speaker 3: and non Latin.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, he would have done both, but he's he's diving
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  Speaker 1: into the Greek and potentially the Hebrew.
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  Speaker 2: I don't remember that exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, he does, Okay, definitely though the Greek in the
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  Speaker 1: New Testament. He's diving into the Greek, not the Latin.
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  Speaker 1: And just to give people a little bit of insight
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  Speaker 1: into what we're what we're really talking about here, right,
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  Speaker 1: the sequencing of the Greek, you know, the Hebrew, the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Greek and the Latin manuscripts. I'll give my little spiel,
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  Speaker 1: and then I'll let you correct what needs to be
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: corrected or filling gaps. Old Testament, or as Dan Block
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  Speaker 1: would say, First Testament is written in Hebrew originally, that's
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  Speaker 1: translated ultimately into Greek, which is called the septuagen Uh.
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  Speaker 1: Then you have the New Testament, which is largely written
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  Speaker 1: in Greek. It's actually all written in Greek. I shouldn't
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: say largely. It's written in Greek. And that was eventually
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  Speaker 1: translated into Latin, which became the lingua franca of the
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  Speaker 1: time for kind of a short a relatively short period,
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  Speaker 1: and then was almost transitioned into a language of the hierarchy,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: the you know, the the hegemony, right. It was a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: more formal language that wasn't really spoken. It was almost
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: like a language for bureaucrats and religious muckety mond wage
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: scholarly language there. Yeah, so is that a that's a
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  Speaker 1: fair characterization. The only thing I think I might have
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: gotten wrong is I don't know that Latin was ever
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: really the lingua franca. I think it was almost always
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit obscure, was it not people.
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  Speaker 3: Did well, there would have been there would have been
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: a period of time when it would have been the
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: language of the of the Roman Empire. But as as
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: that as the Western Empire disintegrates, yeah, so it.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So.
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  Speaker 3: It becomes the standard language of the academic community, particularly
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: in the West. And as modern Europe develops, and we
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: get the development of these what were originally tribal languages German, French,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: in all these sorts of things, the common language in
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: the academic communities, in the in the scholarly was Latin.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: And so Jerome's Latin Vulgate became the Bible for Christian Europe.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: And it was a Bible, sorry, go ahead, that was
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: both that was Old and First and Second Testament.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And it was it was translated from the Hebrew and
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the Greek, or at least from the Greek and the Greek,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you know, like from a septuagen to.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Latin.
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  Speaker 1: And so what we're dealing with as Luther is and
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: now there's this renaissance of Greek manuscripts coming in at
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the time when Luther is kind of beginning his doctoral studies.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: What we're really dealing with is a situation where you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: could read the Latin Vulgate, the Latin manuscripts of the Bible,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: and go, huh, that doesn't seem quite to fit with
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: what I'm seeing in the Greek manuscripts.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: And so this whole.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Area of translation, what counts as an accurate translation, How
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: is a translation really more of an interpretation of an
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: original manuscript? All those kind of conversations that we're relatively
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: familiar with now that we have Bibles in English, Like
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: we know those English Bibles aren't the original manuscripts, but
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: we also because we have so many, we can kind
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: of see that these interpretive decisions, these translation decisions are
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: relatively common across and so Luther's not he doesn't have
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: that sort of benefit that we do today. He's really
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: just now comparing a Latin manuscript a Greek manuscript and
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: then trying to figure out, how do I convey this
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: in German in a way that stays faithful to the text.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And it's within that sort of nexus that he begins
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to realize something he didn't know before.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not driven by his translation work per se. Yeah,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: it's driven by his own anxiety. So I meant most
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: people agree that the critical years for Luther are between
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: fifteen thirteen and fifteen sixteen. Somewhere in that framework, he
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: starts to develop a new understanding of the scriptures.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: He's reading, for example, in the Book of SOMs and
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: he gets the Psalm thirty one, verse one, and you,
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: oh Lord, I have put my faith or something like that,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: deliver me in your righteousness. I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, that's right. Yeah,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: the critical phrase for Luther is deliver me in your righteousness.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: This is a psalm of David as he understands it,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: and what drives him nuts about this text is David
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: seems to be saying to God, because you are righteous,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: deliver me.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: The implication is that David is saying, I am a
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: righteous person and since you are a righteous God, you
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: should deliver me.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: The problem is or Luther knows David is not a
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: righteous person, right, and so he is absolutely flummixed by
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: this statement. What is wrong with this?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: God never ask God.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: To deal with you on the basis of his righteousness.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: So in Luther's understanding, and this is again we've talked
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: about this before. Why does God damn people to hell?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Answer?
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Because he is righteous? What is wrong with David? David
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: is praying, Dear Lord, damn me to hell. Who never
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: ask God for never ask God to give you what
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: he owes you.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So he cannot figure this out. He cannot figure
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: out why David is not saying, deliver me in your mercy,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: deliver me in your grace, deliver me in your He's
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: just completely stuck there. What turns him is when he
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: goes to the Book of Romans and he starts reading,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: I'm not a shame to the Gospel.
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  Speaker 2: It's the power of God issavation.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: When niry One believes that the Jew first and under
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: the Greek in the Gospel, a righteousness of God is revealed. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that's interesting. A righteousness that is from first to last.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: And then he quotes it back at four and forth,
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  Speaker 3: just as it is written, the just shall live by
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: faith faith. And at some point he begins to connect
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  Speaker 3: ideas and he starts to say, maybe David is righteous,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: and maybe David is righteous because the good news of
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: the Gospel is that righteousness is a gift. If the
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: righteousness of God is revealed in the Gospel. It must
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: be different than what it was at the First Testament
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: somehow or something. What is this revelation of righteousness in
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: the Gospel?
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  Speaker 2: And he argues.
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  Speaker 3: Then that God makes his righteousness available to us on
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: the condition of faith, That is that when people put
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: their faith in God, God in turn grants them righteousness,
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  Speaker 3: so that they are righteous, not because they are righteous,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: but because they have received God's righteousness. Now theologians call
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: this imputed righteousness. I like Luther's term much better. He
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: calls it alien righteousness. It's in us, but it's not
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: ours sides in us, but is not generated by us.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: That is going to be the huge difference. He believed
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: that the Church was teaching him that he could become righteous,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that is, that when he received grace from the sacraments,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: it would cause him to become a righteous person. He
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: came to the conclusion that he could never become righteous, yeah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: that his only hope was an external righteousness, not his
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: own righteousness. That even by grace, he could not become righteous.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: By grace, he could receive righteousness but not become righteous,
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: at least not to the extent that he would merit
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: God's favor or acceptance, and so that that is the twist,
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: and he's getting that from the text. Now that's going
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: to start spinning the way through. So so our listeners
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: probably you know, the only thing that some of the
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: man have said, well I've heard about Luther in fifteen seventeen,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: the third ninety five thesis, right, well, you ought to
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: read them. The first thing you're going to do is say, well,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: this is crazy. This has nothing to do with justification
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: by faith. It really I don't even understand this stuff.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Why are we seeing almighty fortresses? Are God in my
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: community's Baptist church or in my you know whatever, because
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: this doesn't make any sense to me at all. Yeah, well,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: the first one, when our Lord and Savior said repent,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: he did not mean do penance. The first two, Yeah,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: what's that about. Well, here's what that's about. There's a
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: text in Matthew and Luther cites the text the Latin
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Vulgate says that Jesus said do penance. Yes, and so
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: the Roman church said, aha, that's the sacrament of penance.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Jesus said do penance. So when you sin, you must
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: go to the priest and do penance. Luther says, Wait
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: a minute, I get started reading this in Greek.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh huh.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: The words metinoia. That doesn't mean do penance, that means
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: turn around and go the other way. It means repent.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: And so this is a clear Now we're into how
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: am I reading the Bible. I'm reading it in the original,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: and I can't get the Bible to say what the
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: church says. It says right now, there's trouble in paradise.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was remembering with the translation piece,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: that there was some sort of kicker there. So it
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't related necessarily to his justification by faith piece, It
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: was related to this idea of penance, and then that
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: is ultimately going to cascade. Even in the ninety five feces,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you kind of see a cascade into indulgences and purgatory
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: and all these other different practices that he's ultimately going
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: to disagree with on with the Catholic Church and then
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: kind of get himself into a lot of trouble with
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: the Catholic Church as he seeks to reform it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Ultimately he gets booted out of it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, and this where does this come to a head?
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Fifteen twenty Actually does before then. But this is the
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: big public blowout fifteen twenty, the diet of worms. And
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: here's the famous popes and councils have aired in the past.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Unless I'm convinced by scripture and plain reason, I cannot
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: and will not change my mind. So here's the deal, boys,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: And he says this to the Emperor. I really don't
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: care that the pope or some council says that we
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: need to do penance, the sacrament of penance. That's not
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: what the Bible says. And my conscience is held captive
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: to the text.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Not the Pope or the council.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: And when the Pope or the council says something that
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: I can't get out of the Bible, I'm not bound
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: to believe it. That's where the rubber really hits the road.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: That's where Luther is going to make the break. Unless
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: you show me from the Bible, I will not You
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: cannot force me to believe it, and you cannot force
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: me to practice it. That's where things get. It's just
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: going to go off the rails.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's we'll end this episode here and then
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: next episode, let's talk a little bit about the ninety
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: five Feces will go through the diet of arms, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: then we'll talk a little bit about the way that
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: or the importance of, maybe the translation of the Bible
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: into German for Luther's overarching sort of new theology that
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: he discovers in this period, why that translation is so crucial.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: So we'll address that in the next episode. So come
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: on back, everybody to the next episode of Thinking Christian
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and we'll continue our conversation about the Reformation. I just
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: want to take a second to thank the team at
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you'll
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.