Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Exclusive: Former Mayor of NYC Rudy Giuliani Takes Us Through September 11, 2001

Transcript

Exclusive: Former Mayor of NYC Rudy Giuliani Takes Us Through September 11, 2001 · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yucatel. Our
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: guest today is going to be Rudy Giuliani, who talks
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: about what happened to him on the day of 9-11.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: His personal story from that day.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And before I bring you that interview, some people might
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: be saying, well, why would you even be talking to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Rudy right now? He's not the person we remember him
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to be. Well, I lost my fiance that day, as
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: many of.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: You know already.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: And he has been someone who I've had a soft
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: spot for. I am someone who has always believed that
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I was connected to him, even though I didn't know him.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: And it took me months, to try and locate him.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. Like this was the hardest guest I've
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: ever had to book. And I finally got to him.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We did our interview and we have been friends ever since.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: My daughter was recently in a really awful accident. Rudy
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: took the time to send a video message to my
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: daughter to tell her to get well and to just
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: have this personal conversation with her about how he could
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: relate to getting hurt.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And he is.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Just someone who, you know, clearly has gotten himself in
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: some trouble for things that he has said and people
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: don't agree with him.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: But I will say that on.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: September 11th, he became a hero to New Yorkers, to
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: our nation, and... you know, I think that you should
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: give this episode a listen, regardless of your feelings of Rudy,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: because it was important to me. And the way he
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: talks about that day is something you don't want to miss.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: And for me, you know, when I originally interviewed him,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I figured that we would go back and forth and
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: talk about our experiences that day. The interview kind of
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: didn't happen that way.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I wanted to let him talk.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I speak a little bit on the show about my experience,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: but I really wanted to get out of him, right,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: his story. So I just want to fill you in
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: on my loss from September 11th. I was a 26-year-old girl.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I was working at Bloomberg News at the time. I
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: had just gotten engaged to my fiance. His name was
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: James Andrew O'Grady. I was kind of like this young
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: version of me. I was like a kid. He was 32.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: He was very mature. He was a very funny, very gregarious,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: gorgeous guy, former swimmer at UCLA.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Super smart. I had met Andy three years before. We
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: met on a blind date.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: My best friend at the time, Allison, was dating somebody
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: in his firm and they set us up on a
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: blind date. And it was very funny because Allison didn't
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: know Andy and Andy didn't know Allison. And the guy
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: that she was dating didn't know me.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: But the guy, his name was Kevin.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Kevin convinced Andy to call me and that I was
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the greatest thing ever. And Allison convinced me that Andy
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: was amazing and I would really like him.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: So.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: He calls me and I got to be honest, he
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: gave great phone. He had this amazing voice, this like
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: belly laugh. And I really, you know, we spoke for
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: like an hour and a half the first night we
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: spoke and I, I really wanted to meet him. And
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I remember at the end of the phone call, he said, well, listen,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the next step is we should meet in person. And
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: if I don't find you attractive, then we don't have
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to speak again. And I thought that was just so honest.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So we decided to meet and it wasn't one of
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: those things where I like fell head over heels and
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: it was amazing. He didn't tell me he loved me
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: for seven months. I mean, this was, he was like
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: a very, I was intimidated of him and I wanted
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: someone like him to love me, but I didn't think
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that I would ever love him. you know, have someone
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: like him in my life. I was just so honored
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: to be around him. I learned so much from him.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: And when I met him, I was working at an
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: internet company and I wanted to be like him. So
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: every day I called Bloomberg News and I called the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: head of television there and I would say, or I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: would email her and I would talk to her and
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I would say, listen, if a job ever opens, let
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: me work there. And after maybe four months of bothering
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: this poor woman, she called me one day. She said,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: we have an opening on the assignment desk If you
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: want to come work here, I'll give you the job,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: but it starts at 5 a.m. And I'm like, I'll
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: take it. And I was so proud of myself. And
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Andy spent hours a day after his work teaching me
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: about business, teaching me about business news. And my job
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg became, you know, my most favorite job ever.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: But it was at Bloomberg that I was working there
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: when September 11th, 2001 happened. And three weeks before that,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: We were getting ready to go. We were living together
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: at this point and we were getting ready to go
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: on a trip to Greece.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Two things happened. Andy had, she forbid me to get
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: a dog. Forbid me.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So of course, one day I would have to walk
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: between Bloomberg and our house on 66th Street and there
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: was a dog store, basically. A very high-end dog store
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: called American Kettle on Lexington in Manhattan. And there was
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: all these gorgeous puppies in the window. And for whatever reason,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: this one dog caught my eye and I could not
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: leave without buying this dog, of course. So I get
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: home and I say to Andy, listen, if you don't
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: like the dog, we'll return it after a week. I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: have all these gorgeous pictures of Andy and the dog.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: We named him Mickey. He was the smallest little chihuahua
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: with blue eyes, short haired chihuahua, you know, hanging out,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: sleeping together, like, you know, taking naps together. I loved
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: this dog so much. We had the dog for about,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know, three weeks. And one day Mickey started
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: getting seizures. Long story short, we had to put Mickey
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: to sleep. I promise the story is going somewhere. So
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I was devastated. So Andy was with me when we
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: had to put the dog down.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I was so upset. I loved this dog more than anything.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm an animal lover in general, but I
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: loved that Andy and I had this dog together that
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: we both cared for. So Andy, after we put Mickey down,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: we went to dinner together. And he said, Rachel, everything
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: happens for a reason. And I kept saying, no, that's
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: not true. Why would there be a reason for this poor,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: innocent dog to die? And he reminded me of something
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: that was very true. He said, Rachel, Mickey didn't know
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: that he was supposed to live 13 years, 18 years,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: however long of a life he could have had. He
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: knew that he was loved by you more than anyone
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: that he's ever been around for the term of his life.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And that was the end of his life and he
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: didn't know any better. There's no loss for him. He
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: was loved and that was his time to go. And
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I said, yeah, okay. I mean, it made me feel
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a little bit better, but you know, that was kind
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: of the end of the conversation. We were going to
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Greece the next week. He said, listen, when we come
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: back from Greece, we will go look for a dog together.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: We will buy a dog that is a purebred that is,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: you know, or a rescue, something that we really are
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: paying attention to.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: We're not getting it from a store. The dog ended
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: up having distemper. That's why it died, by the way.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: And he promised me we'd get a dog. So we
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: go to Greece.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: We have an amazing two weeks together. We come back
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: on Sunday. We go to work Monday morning. At the time,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember this because it
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: seems so long ago, but you know, you had actual
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: cameras and we had a disposable camera, which you had
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: to go to like a one hour photo or a
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: photo developing place to get the photos, and it actually
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: had negatives in the photos, right? So we got six
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: packs of photos back Monday night, September 10th. And we
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: were looking through all the photos of our trip and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: we were so happy to get these photos back. So
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the morning of September 11th rolls around and we had
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: two bathrooms. So I had to get up for work
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: at 5am. I was still working the 5am shift, but
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: shift at Bloomberg. And I went in the bathroom. I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: took a shower. I put one towel on the floor,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: one towel around my body and one towel around my head.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: And I go into the second bathroom to get ready.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: When I came out of the bathroom around probably 4.40
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: in the morning, Andy was sitting on the couch in
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: our living room and he was watching the Weather Channel.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: And I was going to be late for work. So
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of rushing around. And he says to me, hey, babe,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I want to take those photos to work with me today.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Where are they?
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: So I give him all the photos and I sort
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: of head to the door to leave. And I say,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you know what, Andy, give me the, take the negatives
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: out of the photos in case you lose them. I
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: want to have them here, which he did. I said,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: what's the weather today? And he said, it's going to
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: be a gorgeous day. And I walked back to the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: door and he said, come give me a kiss before
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: you leave. And I said, I'll kiss you when I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: get home. I was running late at the time. So
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I go to work and he calls me at 7 a.m.,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: when he's at work finally. And he says, Rachel, I
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: just want you to know I'm so proud of you.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: You're acting like wife material already. You put the towels
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: back in the bathroom so that I had towels when
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I got out of the shower. And it was a
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: constant fight between us because I would take all the
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: towels out of the bathroom and he would get out
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: of the shower and never have a towel. So he
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: told me he loved me, all this stuff. Anyways, we
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: hung up and I went back to work and he
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: went back to work within an hour. The first tower
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: got hit by a plane. And then soon after, a
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: second plane hit his tower. His was the second tower
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: to get hit, but the first tower to fall. I,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: of course, have a whole detailed story about what happened
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: that morning and thereafter, which is obviously horrible. And I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: actually don't want to get into it now because I
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: do want to get to Rudy's episode. But I will
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: fast forward to a year later. I had to take
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: a leave of absence from work. The anniversary of September
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: 11th came about and everyone had kind of moved on
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: and was just kind of covering it, you know, like
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: regurgitating all the news that had happened. But I couldn't
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: handle listening to that news. So I took some time
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: off and I went to Brazil and I kind of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: did one of those trips to find myself.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: And I woke up in the middle of the night.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I had this dream and I had been living obviously
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: in such a depressed state and feeling just so miserable.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Like I had every moment was a loss. Like I
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: didn't know where I belonged. I had lost my future
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: with this guy. I didn't know how to move forward.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I would be in a taxi and I would be
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: sitting by myself. I would see the empty seat and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: feel like, well, Andy should have been here. May rolled around.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: That was the day we were getting married. I thought
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Andy should have been here. Should have, should have, right?
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So I wake up in the middle of the night
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and I had this epiphany. And I said, oh, my God,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the reason that Mickey died was so Andy could be
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the one to teach me the lesson that Andy lived
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: his life for the duration of what he was supposed
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: to live. He wasn't supposed to live till he might
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: be 80 or 90 or even 50. He was supposed
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to die when he was supposed to die. And I
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: should appreciate the fact that I got to love him
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and he got to love me for the time that
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: he was here and he lived a full life. and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: to not be upset by it and to just know
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: that he was okay. The reason that Mickey died was
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: so Andy could teach me that lesson and say that
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: to me so that I could move on when Andy died.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: To me, that's my story of my long story about
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Mickey dying. And I just wanted to let you guys
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: know that obviously there's not a day that goes by
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that I don't think of Andy, but it's on September
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: 11th that I want to remind everyone of this wonderful person,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: James Andrew O'Grady, who lived a full life, who was
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the most wonderful person I knew. And I was lucky
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to have been loved by him. I'm sorry if you
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: have a loss from September 11th. I'm sorry if you
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: have a story of grief. someone you loved throughout your life.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It obviously doesn't have to be related to September 11th,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: but the pain never does go away, but time kind
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: of heals.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: But on September 11th, that wound does reopen.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And I just really appreciate you guys listening to my podcast,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: to listening to my personal stories, which I try not
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: to get into that much, but my guests all mean
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: so much to me. And I have a method to
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: my madness and a reason to be interviewing the people
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that I do. And I was honored to have met
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani and to hear his story from 9-11. And
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I hope you give this a listen and listen to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the end.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: It's a great story. It's a powerful story.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from you guys if this was
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: a episode that you can relate with.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Please drop me a message.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Without further ado, here is the mayor, the one and
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: only mayor, Rudy Giuliani.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: I've wanted to.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Meet you for 22 years now, but probably longer than that.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: But I have always admired you and you've been a
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: huge part of my life. Not only because of September 11th,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: but I don't know if your team told you, but
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: two days after September 11th, I went and got a
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: dog to comfort me through my loss. And I, Andy
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: was my fiance who I lost in September 11th and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: he forbid me to get a dog. I got a
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: dog anyway, but about a week before Andy died, the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: dog who we had only had for a month, he
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: died of distemper.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: I bought him in a pet store. I was devastated.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: And he said, okay, after we were going to Greece,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: he said, after our trip to Greece, we'll get a dog.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: We come home from Greece the next day of September 11th.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So I had lost my dog. I lost my fiance.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Where did he work?
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: He worked at Sandler O'Neill.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: So two days after September 11th, I went back to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the pet store and I bought a dog who I
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: named Rudy Giuliani. And this dog, I'm telling you, to
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: be honest with you, was the only stable love of
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: my life that I've had.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: He lasted almost 20 years.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And so I'm going to show you a picture because
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I think he's very handsome.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: He's a lot better looking than me. Look at him. Oh,
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: my goodness. Now, what kind of dog is that?
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: He's a Brussels Griffin.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. You look like you're very smart, too.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, he was.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: You can see that.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: He took after you, right?
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. I'm very honored. Yes, yes.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: So anyways, I wanted to get into... I love dogs. Yeah,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: I know you do. You have one, right?
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: I had one. I don't have one right now, but
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: I have one. Okay.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk to you about your experience
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of September 11th, because I feel like we obviously have
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that in common. We shared that day. I know you
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and we went through it together, but not knowing each other.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: So I want to paint a picture for people that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: are listening right now or watching of what was going
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: on in the state of New York and, you know,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: in New York in general, in the world, Homeland Security. Like,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: give us a little bit of a painting of what what.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Life was like.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it was the beginning of a new administration, right?
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: Clinton had had his eight years and then Bush won.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: So we were, what, sort of like about eight months,
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: nine months into the.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: for it?
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: It's Dune ADL.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: Dune ADL. There's an accent on the E.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Do you mean.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: Lift, please.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage. Oh, Kimmage.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: No.
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: Done Deal Cars.
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Into the Bush administration. Things were relatively... Certainly internationally, things
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: were peaceful. They seemed to be. Although Bin Laden had
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: been causing a great deal of trouble. I don't know
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: if we were paying a sufficient amount of attention to it. No.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: And he had declared war against us, which I guess
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: we didn't take that as seriously as we should. In
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: the city, we were going through a renaissance. I mean,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: we were on the cover of one magazine after another
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: as the city that had reclaimed itself, the city that
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: had come back. Crime was down to the lowest levels
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: in decades.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: We had gone from 1.2 million people on welfare to 500,000,
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: most of them working. Um, and it was a city
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: with a tremendous amount of optimism. Um, so I think
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: that was a good thing because I think if we
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: had been where we were when I first became mayor
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: depressed and 75% of the people wanted to leave the
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: city like they do now, uh, we'd had a harder
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: time like dealing with it. Yeah. Um, And from my
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: point of view, I was near the end of my term.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I was going to figure out what I did next
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: after Labor Day.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Because I didn't want to spend time thinking too much
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: or looking for a job while I was mayor. It
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: creates enormous conflicts of one kind or another. I had
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: a few ideas of what I wanted to do. I
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: had a contract to write a book. Okay. which was
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: very substantial. I think it was a million and a
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: half or two million dollars.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: So I wasn't worried about supporting myself after I got out.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: But I also was interested in being, I wasn't going
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: to retire. In fact, I thought I'd work even harder
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: when I left. Right.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Hey, everyone. Rachel Uchitel here from the Misunderstood Podcast. Let's
• 17:54
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• 20:11
  Speaker 4: So it was about as peaceful as you can imagine.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: The night before it rained really hard in New York.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: I remember it because it was a rain out of
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: a Yankee game where Roger Clemens was going to try
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: to win 20 games. And I also went to a
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: movie about Pee Wee Reese that night with Pee Wee
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Reese's widow and Jackie Robinson's widow.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Because the next day we were going to raise money
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: to build a statue of them. And went home, went
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: to sleep, woke up the next morning. It was a
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: beautiful day.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: And it was also primary day.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: So we were having our primary elections, Democratic Party, Republican Party,
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: to nominate the candidates to run for mayor to succeed me. Mm-hmm.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: And the Democrat primary was kind of crowded. It was
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: like four or five people. Republican primary were really two people,
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: Mike Bloomberg and I can't remember who was running against him.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: But in any event, I thought, okay, today is going
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: to be a little bit of a lighter day in
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: the morning. So I canceled my morning meeting that I
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: usually had at eight in the morning, made it for
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: the afternoon. And I went and had breakfast with a friend,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: Bill Simon, and with my counsel, Denny Young, because Bill
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: wanted to run for governor of California. And he wanted
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: my advice. And we went to the Peninsula Hotel. We
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: had a terrific breakfast.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: What time was that?
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: I probably got there around a quarter to eight. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: then all of a sudden, as it approached nine o'clock,
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: one of my security people walked in and whispered to
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Denny Young. And Denny had a very Strange expression on
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: his face. And he said, Mayor, I think we're going
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: to have to leave right away. There's been a terrible
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: fire down at the World Trade Center. They think a
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: twin engine plane hit the North Tower. Right. And it's
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: a disaster.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: So I got up right away and said goodbye to Bill. He,
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: for some reason, said, God bless you, which seemed kind
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: of ominous.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: Although, because at that point, we didn't know how bad
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: it was.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: And the minute I got out, I looked up and
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: I saw a beautiful sky. And I said, well, this
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: was no accident. So now we have a crazy person
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: or we have a terrorist, one or the other. Right.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: So I just want to say I was in Midtown also.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I worked for Bloomberg News at the time. I was
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: working on the assignment desk. Mike Bloomberg was my boss.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And I went into work at 5 a.m. And the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: thing you remember is how beautiful.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: That day was. Nope, not a cloud in the sky.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Not a cloud in the sky, yeah.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: And how warm it was and gorgeous. And also for
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: regular people, it was the first day for a lot
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: of people bringing their kids to school, which was why
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of people were not in the building that day.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Not as many as would have been. So they were.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Running late that morning. But I went in at 5 a.m.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I remember the the weather like you are talking about.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: And I was sitting on the newsroom floor listening to
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: what was going on. We're doing the news of the day,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: doing our show.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: We had a live show.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: And next thing you know, I hear somebody say the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: World Trade Center is on fire. And I remember, like
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, everybody assumed and thought, and the news
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: was reporting, that it was a smaller plane, a guy
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: who probably was out there, didn't know what he was doing,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and flew into the North Tower.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: So, sorry to interrupt you, but go on.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: So, I got into my van, and I sat in
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: the back with Denny, and we started down quickly toward
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: the World Trade Center. I tried to reach, and I
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: was able to reach a few of a police commissioner,
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: my deputy mayor, Joe Loda. But before I did, I
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: could see the tower and I could see a terrible fire.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: And it seemed to me it was worse than a
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: twin engine plane. Immediately, Jenny and I both thought, I
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: think this is worse. And I got a call. I
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: can't remember the order in which I got them, but
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: I got a call from my deputy mayor, Joe Loda,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: who told me it's a disaster down here. People are
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: jumping out of buildings. Yeah. And I actually thought he
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: maybe was exaggerating a little. Maybe he was caught up
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: in the emotion of it. The idea of people jumping
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: out of the building was like very hard to take.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: And very hard to imagine of how awful things must
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: have been for their choice to be to jump rather
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: than stay where they were.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Then the police commissioner, I talked to the police commissioner
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: and we didn't know what it was. But we said
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: we're going to assume it. Let's assume it's a terrorist attack.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: You always assume the worst. We also had a trial
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: going on three blocks away from City Hall, about eight
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: blocks away from the World Trade Center, of Al-Qaeda terrorists.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: And that had resulted in my having to close down
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: a number of blocks in the city. So we were
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: being warned about attacks. Not that kind of an attack,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: but attacks. And we did know that if it was
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: a terrorist attack, it was probably bin Laden because of
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: the focus on that trial. But at that point, we
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: still didn't know for sure it was a terrorist attack.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: And as we got about a mile away, very close,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: I saw a big, big explosion. I didn't know what
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: it was. I thought maybe it was a secondary explosion
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: from the first one. And Bernie, the police commissioner, called
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: me immediately and said a second plane hit. It is
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: definitely a terrorist attack. I said, geez, we're at war.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: And he said, yep. And... I tried getting through to
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: the White House, and I couldn't. So I said, Bernie,
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: when I get there, let's set up a command post
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: right nearby, and let's put in hard lines because we
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: need regular telephone lines. These cell phones aren't working efficiently,
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: and we've got to talk to the president. He said,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: we've been able to get through, and I think we're
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: going to have air coverers. pretty soon, but we got
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: to make sure. So I said, okay, well, you set
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: up a command post and I'll meet you when we
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: set the place we were going to meet. And then
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: we have to, we'll have to go over to the
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: fire department command post and make sure everything is coordinated.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: So I got there 10 minutes later, maybe less. And, uh,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: they came up to me, they meeting my deputy mayor, Joe,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: Joe and Bernie, the police commissioner, the deputy police commissioner, uh,
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: and a group of my staff. And Joe was the
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: first to tell me, again, how terrible it was and
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: that we were doing everything we can to clear the area.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Now, at this point, people didn't have the creativity is
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: an awful word, but the creativity to even think that
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the towers could fall at this point. Or did you
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: think that there was a chance that they might?
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: You mean quickly?
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, quickly. No. Or at all.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, no. I thought they could fall. You did. Well,
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: not at that point. I hadn't seen quite how bad
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: it was.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: But by the time I left the command post, the
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: fire department, I knew they were going to come down
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: at some point that day or later. But in stages.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: Not implode. So I went to the fire department. I
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: took the police commissioner with me. I could see that
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: they were setting up a headquarters in a Merrill Lynch building.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: field office. They threw the people out. People seemed very
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: happy to get out. And they were putting in these
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: big trunks, these big hard lines. So I felt pretty
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: secure that we were going to get through. And I said, well,
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: to go see the fire chief because he's running this.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: And let's make sure he's got everything he needs. So
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: we walked about three blocks and we got right below
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: the North Tower and Chief Gansey was there with his
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: The fire department fights a fire with the commander as
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: close as he can get to getting a full view
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: of the fire. He has like a board, like a podium.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: And on that podium is a recreation of the fire.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: It's where he can move his men around. And that's
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: what he was doing. And he already had a lot
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: of people in the building. So I said, when I
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: got there, I looked up. And I saw a guy jump.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: And I tell you, it was really a traumatic experience
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: watching this person jump, watching him come all the way down.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: And I grabbed Bernie's arm and I said, Bernie, this
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: is different than anything we've faced before. We don't have
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: a plan for this. We're just going to have to
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: make the best decisions we can and then ask God
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: to make them right. And he said, well, at least
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: we got a lot of experience. And I said, oh, well, Okay.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: And I've got a lot of experienced people. And I
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: went up to the chief and I said to the chief,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: can we get helicopters up there? Because there were a
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: lot of people up there. And the chief looked at
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: me and he said it to me in a very
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: interesting way. He said, I can't. get my guys above
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: the fire.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: So I looked and I could see that there was
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: a firewall.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: And what he was saying is I can get my people.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: And then he said, I can save everybody. I can
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: save everybody below the fire. Okay. He was telling me
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: In a euphemistic way, those people up there are dead. Wow. Wow.
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Where did you end up going for it?
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: You have to put me in touch.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: What's it called?
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Dunaidial.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Do you mean.
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Lift? Please. Please.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage. Oh, Kimmage. No.
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: Don't deal cars.
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: I don't. I didn't feel the impact of that until
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: that night when I thought about it. But what he
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: was saying was those people are dead.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: Now, I emotionally realized because I looked at them and
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: I said, oh, my God, there's people going to die. Yeah.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: And he said, I can't put a helicopter up there
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: to blow up. Flames are too inconsistent. Right. And he
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: said a helicopter rescue for civilians is very, very hard anyway.
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: Right, right.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: At that height. But it's really not in the cards
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: given the flames that are coming out of there. Now,
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: it turns out they did save everybody below the fire.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: The 9-11 Commission said it was the most effective rescue
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: so far in American history. That they saved every person
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: that was conceivably able to be saved.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: So they saved everybody below the fire. Yeah. luckily they
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: were able to get above the fire. The chief didn't
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: know that, but a few areas, they got above the
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: fire and they were able to get some people down.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: You mean climbing up through the.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: Back stairs that weren't affected. But the reality is that
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: 90% of the people above the fire died.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: Um, and probably even before the bill, many of them,
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: even before the.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Building collapsed from smoke and.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: Smoke, mostly from smoke.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Cause the smoke up there was incredible.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: Um, People on the roof maybe survived until the building
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: came down. As soon as I finished with the fire commissioner,
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: I went back to the police department headquarters they had
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: set up. And I asked to get the president. And
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: I got on the phone one of his assistants, who
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: was a good friend of mine. And the first thing
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: I asked him is, do we have air cover? And
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: he said, affirmative. The minute he said that, he was
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: not a military guy. And the minute he said affirmative,
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: I said, oh my goodness, we're already into military language affirmative.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: And it was a funny feeling. And he said, yeah,
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: the vice president ordered fighters out to protect New York.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: They should be there by now. I said, okay, well,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: thank God, because we don't want to... I said, how many...
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: I said, how many.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: Do we know how many more attacks there may be?
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: Or how many planes are out there or something like that?
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: And he said, we've got about seven or eight that
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: are still unaccounted for that we're tracking and worried about.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Right. But at this point, had they shut down the airspace?
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Well, I asked him. I've heard rumors. I said, I
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: heard rumors that they attacked the Sears Tower in Chicago.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: He said, no. The Pentagon. He said, yes. Okay. Yes,
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: they had already attacked the Pentagon. By the time this...
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: conversation took place. I don't think the plane had come
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: down yet in Pennsylvania. But in any event, he said
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: there were seven more planes unaccounted for and therefore we
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: should at least be ready for possible other attacks.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: What was your feeling when they told you another plane
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: had hit elsewhere in Washington, D.C.? My.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: Point, that we're under attack and who knows what was
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: going to happen. I mean, remember, until later in the
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: day when it stabilized, We were not just working on
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: trying to save people and mitigate. We were working on,
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: this could be five more attacks. So the first thing
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: we did originally is we closed down the bridges and
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: tunnels so nobody else would come in. So that whatever
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: number of people we had in the city were frozen.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: And then we tried to get them out. At the
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: same time, we closed the bridges and tunnels because in
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: the first World Trade... center attack. It had been planned
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: in New Jersey. And we particularly wanted nobody coming in
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: from New Jersey. Now, since that time, we had infiltrated
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: those mosques, which became very controversial later, but I think
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: it was a brilliant thing to do. And we knew
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: that they probably were not the cause of it, because
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: we knew everything going on in those mosques. And they
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: had gotten no intelligence about this. And they were not
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: connected to al-Qaeda.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: And we were pretty certain it was bin Laden because
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: of the trials there and because of the warnings we had.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: We had been warned during the Millennium Celebration in the
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: end of 99 that there was going to be an
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: attack at the New Year's Celebration. And that was going
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: to be from bin Laden. And as we got closer,
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: the intelligence turned out to be less and less reliable.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: And I did really consider canceling it, but I didn't.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: And instead, for about two weeks, we did everything we
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: could to make that area safe. We went below ground.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's a whole city in New York right
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: below ground. We secured that on New Year's Eve. There
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: were police officers below ground, believe it or not, to
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: make sure that nobody could get in there. And that night,
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: when I walked up to press down the button that
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: brings down the ball, which, by the way, is not
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: really true. It comes down automatically, and you press a button,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: and you better get it right, otherwise you look stupid.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: But they try to make it look like that. I
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: probably don't trust a mayor to do it on time.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: When I walked up those steps, it was the only
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: time in my life where I thought I might get shot.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: Because they had told us so much about attacks. I thought, boy,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: they just really can't protect you.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: Now, I have had a lot of experience with protection.
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: I was the associate attorney general when Ronald Reagan was shot.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: And I helped arrest Hinckley. And I helped to rearrange
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: his security afterwards. Um, so I was kind of an
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: expert even on my own security because I had done
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: it for many, many other people. Right. And, um, I've
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: been threatened numerous times and it never, it never bothered me.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: That was the one time I looked, I looked at
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: the buildings and I thought about, boy, all they had
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: to do is put one person in there. It's a
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: good shot and I'm gone. Right. And I said.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Sorry, security is such an interesting thing.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Homeland Security has a huge job that they have to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: get it right every time and be prepared every time.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: And terrorists only have to get it right once.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: And they don't. Most of the time they get it wrong.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: Think of all the terrorists we catch. Yeah, right. But
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: when they get it right.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: It's... Devastating.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: It's devastating. Yeah. It's like looking for a little thimble
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: in a big giant bale of hay.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's... You know, the other thing strange about it, Rachel,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: after it happens, you can go back and find the
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: things you should have looked at.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: But they were buried. Right. And I've never been a
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: second-guesser about this, except a few times where it was obvious.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: Some of the latest attacks that have taken place, it
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: seems to me something's wrong in our warning system because
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: you've had these people... that are mentally ill and they've
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: threatened and they've been online. I think particularly the Boston Marathon,
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: that guy had gone to Russia. The FBI decided not
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: to continue but didn't turn it over to the local police.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: I'd have gone crazy when I was the mayor if
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: they did that to me. If they had found this
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: guy who was all involved with the Chechen rebels had
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: just gone to Russia, but decided, oh, we don't have
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: enough resources. And they didn't let the New York City
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: Police Department know that it had been a revolution. I mean,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: I would have gone crazy. Sometimes you have to do that.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: You have to stage that in government to get attention.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: So I think we've gotten sloppy. But the reality is
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: that one, when you found the things that warned about it,
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: they were buried so far in the ground, it'd be
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: hard to say to anybody, did anything wrong and not.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Finding it out right right after the fact and then.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: The theories the conspiracy theories about it disgust me yeah
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: they really disgust me it's almost seems sacrilegious you know
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: i know what happened everybody knows what happened so.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: You don't believe it was an inside job like some people.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Like the cia did it or some crazy thing like
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: that no bush did it Bush did it give me
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: a break give me a break the poor man you
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: know I was with the man a lot during that
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: four week period the man was ripped apart over it
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: like I was and he did everything there's not a
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: damn thing we asked him for he didn't do for
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: us I mean he was he was up. I once
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: said that no matter what, what, what happens with George Bush,
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: just for the way he reacted after September 11, he'll
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: be a great president. Yeah. And particularly by hitting them
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: back so fast, we'd have got attacked again if he didn't.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know that's very controversial, but particularly the
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: Afghan war was totally necessary to sock him in the,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: in the head because Clinton had been too easy on him.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: Then Laden took out a, a, a naval ship, uh,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: other attacks, and we'd go bomb a field. We'd go
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: bomb an empty field. You might as well tell them,
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: attack again. And I remember as I was walking along,
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: and this gets a little political, I told Bernie, thank
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: God Gore didn't get elected. Because I figured if Gore
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: got elected, he might, you know, he might give him
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: the Nobel Peace Prize, who knows. But he sure wouldn't
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: hit him hard. And I knew Bush, I knew Bush
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: was a tough guy. And that there'd be a hell
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: of a reaction Now, you can start debating the Iraq
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: war and all that, but that immediate reaction, I think,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: was critical to our not being attacked again. And it
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: also took out their resources. Those soldiers who were on horses,
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: those people are incredible. None of them knew how to
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: ride horses. I met them. They came and brought me,
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: and too bad we're not at home, because I have
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: at home a.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: A knife and a headdress of the first guy they killed.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: And they brought it to me with a plaque and
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: they said, I want you to take this for the
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: people of the city. I really should give that to
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: the museum. I think I will.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: Yes. That's amazing. So let's get back to the day
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: of September 11th.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: What were your feelings when the first tower came down
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: and where were you exactly?
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: I was in, after I finished with the fire department, Chief,
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: I went back to the headquarters, the temporary headquarters we
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: had set up.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: And what street was this on?
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: So it was on it was on Park Place and Barrow.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: So we walked in. The police department remarkably had already
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: transformed it. They're all on the phone. And it seemed
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: to me as I walked in, so the White House
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: is on the phone for you. So I went into
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: one office. And it was this gentleman that I mentioned
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: who worked for the president. And I said, I'd like
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: to talk to the president. And he said, we're evacuating
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: the White House. And the vice president will call you back.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: So I had an image in my head that they
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: were evacuating the president from the White House. I did
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: not realize the president was in Florida and speaking to
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: children and you know what eventually was the case. So
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: that was somewhat ominous when he said that. I thought,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: my God, the White House is being evacuated. He said,
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: the vice president will call you back very, very shortly,
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: but you have air protection. Be alert to the fact
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: that there could be other attacks. I said, we're anticipating
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: ground attacks that they might follow this up. They might
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: have people in the city. And other cities, my police
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: department is right now securing 130 locations. So we kept
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: a list of terrorist targets. This started even before the
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: 93 attack. Remember, I had been U.S. attorney before, which
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: was very helpful because I was very familiar with the
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Joint Terrorism Task Force. I prosecuted their cases. So the
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: Joint Terrorism Task Force which is a great idea and
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: started in New York, FBI, police department together sharing intelligence.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: We used to use arrests of terrorists and then we
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: would go through or the FBI would go through their targets.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: And from that, we would create a list of their
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: priority targets from one to about 130. And we kept
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: changing it depending on who we arrested. So let's say
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: we had, for example, killed several terrorists in Brooklyn about
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: a year earlier. So we took out of that building
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: all kinds of plans. And based on those plans, and
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: then whatever happened all around the country, which we would get,
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: we would give that to the FBI. They would give us,
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: we would come up with this list. And the number
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: one target on the list was not the World Trade Center.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: It was the Stock Exchange. Hmm. Uh, particularly almost every
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: terrorist that I ever was involved in arresting or got
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: intelligence about. They had a great interest in our bridge.
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Where did you end up going for it?
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 45:03
  Speaker 7: You have to put me in touch.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: What's it called?
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: It's Dune ADL.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: Dune ADL. There's an accent on the E.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Do you mean.
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on done deal cars. Lift, please.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage. Oh, Kimmage. No.
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: Done deal cars.
• 45:21
  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: They're in tunnels.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: They had all kinds of plans for our bridges and tunnels.
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: In fact, about a year earlier, we had killed a
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: guy who had all of the plans for a subway
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: connection in Brooklyn. And we shot him. in the building
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: he was in as he was going for the toggle
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: switch to blow up the building. Oh, wow. So we
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: had a lot of experience with terrorism, but not this
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: particular kind of attack. As soon as I got off
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: the phone, it seemed to me very quickly, one of
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: the policemen came in and said, the vice president, or
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: maybe he said the White House, is on the other phone.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: So I walked over two offices. I picked up the
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: phone with the White House secretary who said, Mayor Giuliani.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: I said, yes. I said, Vice President Cheney will be
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: on in one minute. I said, thank you. And I'm
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: holding onto the phone. And I have my chief of
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: my security detail, John Huvane, next to me. And all
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: of a sudden, the desk starts to shake. It looks
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: like an earthquake. I look outside. I hear yelling and screaming.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: People going under the desk. John takes me. The phone
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: goes out. John takes me. And John was an Irish
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: football player. He was a big guy. He took me
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: and he's trying to put me down under the desk.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: And I said, I'm not going under that desk. Bullshit.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: I watched Patton. I'm not doing that. So I stood up.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: I stood up and I said, what the hell happened?
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: And all of a sudden, Chief Esposito who's remarkable, I
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: had remarkable people, remarkable guy, I just went to see
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: him in the hospital. Chief Esposito yells out, the tower
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: came down! Now I thought, and so did John, and
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: so did Bernie, the police commissioner, when he said the
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: tower came down, he meant the tower at the top
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: of the World Trade Center. I didn't think he meant
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: the entire building. But all of a sudden, our building
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: starts to shake like it's gonna fall apart. And for
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: about three minutes, I really thought we were going to
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: get killed. I thought it was just going to crash
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: in on us because the building was... So we came
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: out and we huddled together while this is going on.
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: The building is shaking. You can hear noises.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: And did you have windows near you?
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. The windows didn't break, believe it or not.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: But you could see outside very quickly a cloud that
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: looked like an atomic explosion. It looked like what you
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: would imagine... Hiroshima, Nagasaki were like. And also in a
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: strange way, pretty soon, wasn't right away, it's like it
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: was almost like there was a wind pushing it through.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: It was like moving. So we tried to decide we
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: can't go outside. We can't stay in the building. We
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: had just experienced the thing shaking like it was going
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: to fall down. Who knew what was going to happen
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: to it? So I said, I remember this is connected
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: to a building on Park Place where the law department
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: is located. Those buildings are next to each other. I
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: bet there's a connection underground to them. And the police
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: commissioner said, yeah. Yeah, so one of them did. So
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: we went down. This is a group of about 40 people.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: But it's a very significant group because it's... the police commissioner,
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: the deputy police commissioner, and the chief of the police department.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: Those are the three most experienced people in the police department.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: There's three of my four deputy mayors. If we had
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: lost that group, the city would have lost two-thirds of
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: its senior management. So we go downstairs and we try
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: the different exits and none of them open. We go
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: back upstairs thinking maybe things have gotten better and things
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: look much worse. Now you can see debris going through
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: the streets. You can see like part of a desk
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: or I don't know what the heck it was. You
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: could just see this debris going through the street. And
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden two guys come up to us
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: that I think worked in the building. And they said
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: there's one chance that there's a door. They're all locked.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: But there's one that I think we can get open.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Do you want to try again? And we said sure.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: So we go downstairs and they open the door and
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: you could just a sigh of relief. You can hear
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: everybody say, we walk out into the lobby of park
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: park place. And when we look outside, you sort of
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: say to yourself, I just went from bad to worse
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: because outside was a disaster.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: And people were walking in the building cut. And one
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: of my police, uh, uh, one of my, deputy police
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: commissioners who had been on my police detail and was
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: a martial arts champion. He comes in looking frightened and
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: cut all right across his face. And he said, it's
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: terrible out there. So we got to decide, do we
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: stay in the building or do we go outside? And
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: I talked it over with Bernie and with Denny and
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: we decided It's the strangest decision. I mean, strange when
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: you think of it in retrospect. We decided that if
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: we went outside, we'd lose less people. Because if we
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: stayed in the building and that building came down, we'd
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: lose the entire top management of the city. And at
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: this point, other people had joined us. But if we
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: go outside, we'll lose some people because they'll get hit.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: But we're not going to lose everybody.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Were you guys worried at this point that the second
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: tower was going to come down?
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: Didn't even think of it right away. Right. And didn't
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: know the tower came down. Oh, right.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: You're still thinking it was the top.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but in the back of my mind, and everybody's
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: mind is, this seems like an awful lot of damage
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: for just the top of the building coming down. So
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: we thought that maybe other parts were continuing to come down.
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: And I think then at some point, before we went outside,
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: we were told that the tower had come down.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: Entirely.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but we didn't know what that meant. Mm-hmm.
• 52:08
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• 52:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I expected to see a stump, you know,
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: with a lot of the building down, but I didn't,
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: I never envisioned an implosion. I envisioned it came down
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: like that. So then we did go outside. I held
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: a press conference and I told everyone to go north
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: and get out of there and to remain calm that
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: the police department, the fire department were all coordinated, which
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: they were, and that the rest of the city is
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: being protected against any possible other attack because Bernie and
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: I had dispatched about 150 units of the police department
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: to those targets that I told you about. So we
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: sent some to St. Patrick's, we sent some up to
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: the Bronx, we sent some out to Brooklyn, Kennedy Airport,
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: LaGuardia Airport, the ones that are on that list. And
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: we had run this plan maybe 10 times, either as
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: exercises or where we had terrorist attacks that nobody knew about.
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: So this felt comfortable, we knew how to do this.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden, we get on the street.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: We walk about two blocks. And I feel John grab
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: me again. And he starts running me up the block.
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: And I said, John, what are you doing? And he said, look.
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: And now we hear this noise. I look down. And
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: he said, I think the second building is coming down.
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: And all of a sudden, you see it. You see
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: this thing appear in the canyon, you know, between the buildings. Yeah.
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: It looks like it has eyes or something. And then
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: it starts coming up like this. So we grabbed a
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: lot of people. There was one man who had a
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: hard time walking. And I said, Bernie, let him use
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: your car. So Bernie put a bunch of people in
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: his car and said, get them the hell out of here, civilians.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: And we continued to walk. And the idea now was,
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: where are we going to set up our command post? Mm-hmm.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: So we thought of the first precinct, but they would
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: probably have no power. We thought of the police department
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: and called. They had no power. We walked into a
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: big hotel along the way and walked right out because
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: when we walked in, the police commissioner, the fire commissioner
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: and I, we saw that the entire first two floors
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: were all glass. It's going to be a hell of
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: a place. We're all glass. And finally, we decided on.
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: The police academy.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: Because the police academy is up around 22nd Street. It's
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: out of the area, but it's close enough so you
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: can get there quickly. It had power and it's gigantic facility.
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: It's a big facility and it had all the emergency
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: communication equipment that we needed already there. But on the way,
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: we passed a firehouse in the village and we decided, well,
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: let's make some phone calls from here. to make sure,
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: call the governor. And so we broke in to the
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: firehouse because it had been locked. They were out at
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: the fire. That firehouse lost 12 people. And it was
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: one that I had been to a lot because when
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: I was first mayor, I lost three firefighters from that firehouse.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: And we broke in and I called the governor. And
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: when I got the governor on the phone, he said,
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: thank God, we thought you were gone. I said, what
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: do you mean? We thought you were dead. I said, oh.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: That seemed kind of weird. They actually had drawn up
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: papers for the emergency governance of the city if I
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: was dead. Wow. My deputy mayor, Rudy Washington, was with
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: the governor, and he was helping them do it, which
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: that's what they should do.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: But I actually didn't know that until much later. Right.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: That it was that bad. And when he said it,
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: it was a little startling. I knew we were in danger.
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: But I didn't think people thought we were dead. Right.
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: And I probably probably didn't realize how long we were
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: trapped because I was so busy trying to figure a
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: way out. It seemed like it went by very fast.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: And then the governor and I decided to meet at
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: the I told him I was setting up a command
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: post at the police academy and we decided to meet there.
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: And we made a decision that I think was very,
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: very critical. And it's a decision that I lecture people
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: about all the time in an emergency. We decided that
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: until this emergency was over, we were going to be
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: together constantly. We're going to put our two staffs together. Right.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: We're going to hold our meetings together. We're going to
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: make our decisions together. And he said, I will join
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: you at the police academy, and from now on, your
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: staff and my staff will be joined at the hip.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: And I don't know if he recommended that or I
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: recommended that, but we both immediately agreed to it. And
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: the reason we did that is because there's no time
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: in an emergency for the staffs to fight with each other.
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: And they inevitably will. In an emergency, things go wrong.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: And they're all political. So then they blame someone else.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: So let's say something went wrong. The governor will be
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: fine with it. I'll be fine with it. The president
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: will be fine with it. But my staff will blame
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: him or his staff will blame me. Or plus, you
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: want things to get done like that. So we can't
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: call Albany, get approval, then go to Washington. So they
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: all came together for the next month and a half.
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: We ran our staff meetings together. He ran the state
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: and I ran the city from our emergency management center,
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: which then moved up to Pier 90 something or other.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of stories that are somewhat well
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: known in the last 22 years or so that, you know,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: are repeated every anniversary.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: So we know about some of these people that have died.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Is there a story that stands out to you that
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: people don't know or someone that affected you?
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, still kind of sure i'll.
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: Tell you one uh that isn't mentioned enough but because
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: you don't know who he is um when i took
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: the first group down first group of family members down
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: to the world trade center which we didn't allow for
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: about 10 days and i did it by boat Because
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: at that point, our headquarters was up on the west side,
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: right at the pier, because we needed unlimited space. And
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: we got a boat and we went down and I took.
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Where did you end up going for it?
• 59:47
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: It's Dune ADL.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Dune ADL?
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: Do you mean.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: Lyft?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: Please.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage. Oh, Kimmage. No.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: Dundale Cars.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: As many family members as I could. And one person
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: was there. who had actually been in the building, she
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: worked in the building and her father was a firefighter
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: and she worked for, I think Morgan Stanley. And she
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: said that, I said, what, you know, what, what happened
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: in the building? Cause Morgan Stanley got a lot of
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: people out because of a, of the head of security,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: Rick Rescor, who actually went around and to every, floor
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: every and told them to get out and actually push
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: them out he never got out he was the last
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: one out like the captain with the ship so i
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: knew that story she said but you don't know i
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: wish i could find out who this man is because
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: he was standing by the elevator and he was helping
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: people get on and pushing them in and pushing them
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: in and i was one of the last people pushed
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: in and i said will you you come in now
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: and he said no no no let's get the young
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: people in. I've already had my life.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: And she said, as I was coming down, the building
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: came down. She said, and that's going to be with
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: me for the rest of my life. I think about
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: it every night.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: I could see his face saying, I've had my life.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: You people are young. You go first. I'll get out.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: Don't worry.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: So do you do something on every anniversary that is
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: special to you?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, a couple of things. I go to the ceremony.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: all the time. I go to church, I go to
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: the ceremony. And I get together with my people at night.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: And then many other things, depending on who needs me.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: I do something with the Tunnel to Towers every year.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: But I get together at night with the people that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: I survive with. And it's very... I think it's very
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: important to talk about it. And I tried afterwards very,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: very hard to get the right treatment and the right
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: help for a lot of my people, some of whom
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: still resist it because of macho. But the ones who
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: have gotten it have really come through it really well.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: Did you get treatment for yourself?
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: No, but I think I did by talking about it
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: so much.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, and by getting it for them, I learned
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: an awful lot about what the therapy is and how
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: it works. Yeah. And an awful lot of it is
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: really talking about it.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I had to go to therapy
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: to deal with it way after I couldn't at the beginning.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: But it was very hard to speak to somebody who
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: hadn't gone through it. And even when I watch, you know,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: horrible things that happen, buildings coming down, children being shot,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, unless you're part of it, you're just watching.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: You're from the outside looking in.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: And it's hard to really feel the pain that people
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: go through.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's why. Those groups are so important.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: And so for me, talking about it is good. But
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: it's interesting. I still feel the emotions like it's yesterday.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: Yep. If I get into it, it's like that. I
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: have a very hard time to this day going past
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: that part of town. Yeah. And my son lives down
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: there now. Lives a few blocks south. Yeah. In fact,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: in the days afterwards, I was told nobody's ever going
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: to go back there. Now there are three times more
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: people living there.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: But it's very hard. And sometimes I'll take a circuitous
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: route so I don't have to pass it. I've only
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: been to the museum twice and both times because I
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: had to go. The opening. Yeah. And then I took
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: President Obama through it. Wow. And otherwise, when people want
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: to go to the museum, I make arrangements for them
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: and send somebody else. Yeah.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: That's a hard museum to walk through.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: I can't. I can't. I can't. And I've never watched
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: a movie about it straight through.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: You haven't.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: Even the documentaries I've been in.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: I watched part of them and then I put it off.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: So I just want to tell you a little bit
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: because my, if you, I don't know if you remember,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: two days later, an Associated.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: Press gentleman took a photo of me.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: I was at Bellevue looking for my fiance and just
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: to sort of give you a picture.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: I do remember.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I was 26 years old.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I had just gotten engaged to who I thought was
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: the love of my life.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: He was 32.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: His name's Andy O'Grady. And just saying his name.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: Makes me cry. Sorry.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't mean to do this. But I lost everything.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: And going to Bellevue that day, I remember looking on
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: the computer and seeing that he might have been taken there.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: And so with hundreds of other people. I'm standing in line.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: And it was interesting because, you know, everybody made flyers.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: And I don't know why we did that. It was
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: like what everybody did, right? So I got the most
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: recent photo that I had. And I was laughing because
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh God, he would hate this photo, right?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: But I picked the photo because I loved his smile.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: And I just went where I heard that he was.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: And you're talking to the people in front of you
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: and behind you, listening to their story.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: And each one was worse than the other.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: And it's mothers crying and and children crying, looking for
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: their parents.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: And it was just awful.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: And when I got to the front of the line,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: they checked his name and said he wasn't there.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: And there was a bunch of, sorry, my God.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: No, that's all right.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: There was a bunch of.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Reporters and they said, just tell us about Andy. I
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: thought it was such a great way to let people
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: know who he was. But looking back, that's what I thought.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: But as a 26 year old girl, I was like,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: you have to help me.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know what else to do. I've lost my
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: whole future, my whole life.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: And it was, as a young girl, the worst thing
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: that I've ever been through that I can imagine being through.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: And people don't understand how that affected people's lives. And
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: it changes the trajectory of who you are at that age.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: And probably anyone who went through it. But it was
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: an awful thing.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: It changed the trajectory of the country. Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: And the world. Yeah.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: It was an unreal event in terms of being able
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: to describe the magnitude of it. Yeah. It's one of
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: the events. So, I mean, one of the ways to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: measure the magnitude of it, it's one of those events
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: where everybody remembers where they were when it happened. Of course.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: I'm sure this happens to you when you tell them
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: you were involved. But people almost feel compelled to tell you.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: People have come up to me in airports and train
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: stations and stopped me because they want me to know
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: where they were.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know them.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: They'll tell me, you know, I was in grammar school
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: at the time and the teacher took us all out
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: of class. Or someone will say I was at my desk.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: and not even somebody involved in it. Right. I was
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: at my desk, and we all had to leave.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: And it's the way they connect to that day.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: Or then people will come up to you who are
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: connected to it.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: The ones who were talking to somebody in the building.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: And then I also lost... That afternoon when I had
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: the second press conference, I was asked, did I hear
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: the tape... of the Solicitor General and his wife talking
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: on the phone. That was the plane that went into
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: the Pentagon. And I said, no, I haven't had time
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: to hear anything. And I said, well, the Solicitor General? Oh, yeah, Barbara,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: his wife died. One of my best friends. Wow. They'd
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: been in my office five days earlier.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: And I'll tell you, I had to stop and go
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: behind the governor so I didn't cry because the deaths
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: that I had heard about up until then, I expected.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: I expected, I knew, I knew what happened. And by
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: the time it was an hour later, I was already
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: in a zone of playing mayor.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: Right. But when they hit me with somebody I would
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: never thought of dying in that plane, it was like,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: And then I would say to myself, you can't feel
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: this now. You got to feel it later.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: You got to feel it. You got to, you got
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: to stop it and you got to just concentrate. You
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: got to, You've got to get this out of your
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: mind because you're not going to make the right decisions
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: if you get all emotional. So get it out and
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: think about it later.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: And that day I was working at Bloomberg News. That
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: day I worked until 5 o'clock. I didn't want to
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: go home. And I didn't really shed a tear until
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: a month later when I was in the shower and
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: I was by myself and people had stopped coming around.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Like you're so surrounded by people. by people at the beginning, right?
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: But then they go back to their lives and you don't,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: your life is the same, you know? So I think
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: that's when it really hit me and it changed my life.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on how.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: You feel New York is doing today as opposed to
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: back then.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: I think New York is doing terrible today. It's a,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: it's a, it's a, it breaks my heart. Somebody came
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: up to me about three weeks ago, man came up
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: to me and he said to me, mayor, you know,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: they've ruined everything you did. And I thought he was
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: being nasty. And I thought he was like, and I
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: looked at him and I could see that like almost
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: like a little tear in his eye. And I said,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: I think you're right. I think you're right. I mean,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: I didn't think it could be done. I mean, we,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: we really had, um, I left it to Mike. He
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: improved it. We had 20 years of the best city
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: in America.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: Without any doubt about it, we were the best city
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: in America for 20 years. People would come here to
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: learn how to do things. Yeah. When I was going
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: through September 11, Governor Bush and Mayor Daley sent their
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: people here to watch how we handled the emergency because
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: they believed we did it so well.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: And then I went. They were nice enough to invite
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: me to show me what they did. So when I
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: see their emergencies, I feel like, oh, we help them.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: We help people get, in other places, get people off welfare.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: And we help them find better ways to clean the streets.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: We were sort of the leading city. Yeah. And Mike
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: kept it that way. And now all of a sudden,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: it's almost as if they can't do anything right. Right.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: And incredibly stupid decisions they made. Like, you know, the
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: mayor announcing we're a sanctuary city and inviting everybody here.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: and now he's all upset there's so many people here
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: right well he invited them here yeah and he decided
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: they could have health care and he decided they could
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: go to college and he decided that he decided they
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: can vote right but why wouldn't they come here yeah
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: and now he's overwhelmed with 70 80 000 people that
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: he doesn't have the money to take care of the
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: space yeah And he's still doing things like, we'll get
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: you a job, which means even more people will come here.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: And they're all illegal.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: If you were mayor right now, is there one thing
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: that you would focus on or do specifically?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: I'd get them the hell out of here. They don't
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: belong here. And the reality is this is the federal
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: government's problem. And the first time somebody bust illegals to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: my city, I'd bust them right to Kamala Harris. There's
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: a big naval observatory. The vice president lives there. I've
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: been there. She's got plenty of room there. She could
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: have taken care of the first 10,000. Then they would stop. Plus,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: I'd be on television every night saying, if the president
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: doesn't close the border, we should impeach him. This is
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: all Biden. At the Democratic Convention in 2020, he told
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: the illegals to surge over the border. He told them
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: to surge. He does nothing at the border to stop them.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: The only people that are checking on them and who
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: they are are the Mexican cartels. We've got people dying
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: of fentanyl in the United States, like at the rate
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: of 100,000 a year. Those are wartime numbers. We're being
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: invaded and they're killing us. And the president is in
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: some kind of a demented state doing nothing about it.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: And our mayor in New York invited him to come here,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: but never will say... Biden closed the damn border because
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: he's a Democrat before he's a mayor.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: Interesting. All right.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: My last question on this topic is your thought on
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: crime in the city, specifically the subways. I mean, even
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: as recently as Sunday, another woman was thrown into the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: subway and is now paralyzed from that.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: It's like deja vu. Yogi Berra had an expression, deja vu,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: all over again.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: It's like I'm living in the 1970s and 1980s before
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: I was mayor.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: Do you take the subway? No.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: I don't take the subway.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: But I haven't taken the subway in years. I don't
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: like the noise. Right. Okay.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: Do you have a thought on this latest major issue?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the man should get a medal.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: The man should get a medal.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: Interesting. If I were the mayor, I'd have brought him
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: to City Hall and given him an award. Right. I
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: would have said, that was an awfully brave thing you did.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: You have no idea if you would have gotten killed. Yeah.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: This idea like Sharpton gets up and says he was
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: being peaceful. What a lie. I mean, I don't know
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: what kind of minister Sharpton is anyways, a minister who lies.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: But he was being peaceful. He walked on the train,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: yelling and screaming, threatening people, throwing garbage at them, telling
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: them basically he was going to kill them. And then
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: he took his jacket off and threw it on the ground.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: The minute he took that jacket off, you had to
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: say to yourself, now he's going to kill somebody. And
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: the sergeant, Marine sergeant, acted exactly when he should. When
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: that jacket came off, that's the time to stop him.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: Because if you wait, you're going to stop him after
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: he kills somebody.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: I can't imagine that there's a person on that train,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: that subway, that doesn't appreciate what he did. I mean,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: people came forward who had been beaten up by this
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: guy and said, I wish Penny was there when I
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: got beaten up. The guy has 45 arrests. So I
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: multiply it by 10. Hmm. You don't get arrested for
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: all the crimes you commit. Particularly a guy like that.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: And every time he got arrested, they put him back
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: out anyway because of Cuomo and Hochul and Adams and
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: this crazy DA we have who thinks criminals should be
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: on the street hurting us. So he did what has
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: to be done in a city in which we basically
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: empower criminals and put them on the street. We have
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: a criminal-friendly district attorney We have a mayor whose head
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: is somewhere else other than in the job of being mayor.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: And he did what should have been done. Protect people.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, the city should be doing it. But if
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: the city's not doing it, somebody's got to do it.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: And the guy is a Marine. He's trained to protect people.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: And why they're torturing him, I have no idea. All
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: it's going to do is deter other people Maybe you're
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: on a subway or I'm on a subway. And the
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: next guy sits back and says, I don't know. If
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: I get involved, first of all, I might get killed. Right.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: If I get involved, if I don't get killed, I
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: might go to jail. Now, who's going to come forward
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: except a superhero?
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: I have no idea why we didn't applaud what he did.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: The mayor originally was very good. But now he's doing
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: a whole thing with the family. And you see that
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: the uncle who was the spokesman just got arrested himself.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: So when the family does all this stuff about him,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: I also say, why the hell weren't you taking.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: Care of him?
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, you talk about the system failed him. Well,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: you didn't do much of a job either.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, the guy goes into this rehab program and
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: he checks himself out. How come you don't go get
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: him and put him back in? Yeah.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: Mental health crisis is such a big issue.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: Mental health crisis is an issue, but there's also accountability.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: And don't go start blaming this poor guy who acted
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: that way when I can't imagine you as a family
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: did what you should or otherwise you wouldn't be on
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: the street.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: Right. Well, you're a busy man. I know you have
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: places to be.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to do a quick lightning round with
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: you to lighten the mood for one second, if you
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: don't mind.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: Favorite restaurant in New York?
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: Fresco.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: What TV show are you binging right now?
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: I'm rewatching The Tudors.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: What was your favorite Tina Turner song?
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: Gosh, I don't remember.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: What's Love Got To Do With It? Did you like
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: that one?
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I did.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: What is your favorite city and why?
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: You mean other than New York? Sure. Well, New York's
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: my favorite city. There's no doubt about it. debated the
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: mayor of London, who then became the prime minister, about
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: which city is better, New York or London. And I
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: won based on the restaurants. Right. There's nothing compares to
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: New York. New York is a thing unto itself. Okay.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: What does success mean to.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 4: You? Helping people and feeling a sense that you made
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: a difference.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: What does failure mean to you?
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: Failing to do that.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: Do you know what scandaval is in uh do you
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: know who tom sandoval is sandoval have you heard these
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: names these are people in reality tv it's the biggest
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: scandal in america right now i don't.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: Watch reality tv okay that's my guy i know all
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 4: those uh housewife things and i've met some of them
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: and they come up to me and say i'm on
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: the housewives of mars or whatever And I say, gee,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know. That's nice. That's really good.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: It doesn't impress you, though.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: No, the reality shows don't.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: What are you doing right now that we should be
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: aware of, which we look for from you in the future?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm building my own channel. Now we're up to
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: really good numbers, half a million. Pretty soon we're going
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: to expand even further. I really feel that we've got
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: to create as many First Amendment... respecting media organizations as possible.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: So I'm in the middle of creating one online. Uh,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: plus here on ABC, I get a chance. I feel
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 4: like I give people news that's censored, that's suppressed. Um,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: you know, for example, yesterday, uh, Biden said that Pelosi
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 4: helped get us through the great depression. Now that's insane. Um,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: recently he said he gave his uncle the purple heart
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: when he was vice president in the white house his
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: uncle was dead for seven years before he was in
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: the white house uh so they don't tell people that
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: well the american people should be informed that their president
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: is non-compass menace president united states is losing his brain
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: and doesn't know sometimes where the hell he is when
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: he went to cambodia he thought he was greeting the
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: president of columbia uh Those are things that we're entitled
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: to know because a country is entitled to have a
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: president who knows what they're doing and knows who they
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: are and knows where they are. And Biden has been,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: for some reason, the crooked president of this country takes
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: on the mission of covering up everything for him. He's
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: also a massive criminal. 30 years of taking millions of dollars.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: I have it all in my apartment on the hard drive.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: And he's sitting in the White House. He's Obviously, in
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: some pretty late stage of senility. And he's a 30-year
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 4: serial criminal. And I think he's got to be brought
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: to justice.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: And last question.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: Speaking of presidents at the moment, DeSantis came out today
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: or is coming out now on Twitter with Elon Musk,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: as you know, announcing his presidential bid.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: What do you think of the way he's doing it?
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I like the way he's doing
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: it because I'm on Twitter. And I was the first
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: one to do, I think, a live show on Twitter.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: And we've got tremendous numbers. So all this is going
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: to do is help us. And I actually put that aside.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: I think it was the.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: You have to look at it from DeSantis' point of view.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: He's far behind. And so when you're far behind, you've
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: got to throw a curveball. Nobody's going to pay attention
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: to just a regular announcement. So I think it was
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: very smart to do it that way. Even though you say, well,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: it's only a limited audience. It's still millions of people. Second,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 4: if he doesn't do that, he doesn't get like one
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: of America's heroes right now sitting next to him. Particularly
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: for the right. I mean, I think Musk is probably
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: the second most popular person among Republicans right now. Trump
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 4: is the most popular. 70%. But Musk is probably the second.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: And to have him sitting next to you, it's worth
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: a lot at an announcement. So you might as well
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: go on his channel and do it. But right now,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 4: I think it's probably not doable. I don't think he
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: can catch Trump.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: You don't.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: And I have a funny personal feeling about it. because
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: I do know that Trump made him governor. Not only
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: did he make him governor, he sent me there to
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: help him, ordered me to go there, even though I
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: was involved in defending him at the time. And I'm Italian,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: and loyalty is very important. And so was he, DeSantis.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 4: In fact, his family comes from the same town in
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: Italy as my family, in Avellino. Very few people come
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: from that town. And I don't understand it. The man
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: made you. You're a young man. He's an older man.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: Let him have his chance. Let him have his chance
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: to redeem himself. I mean, he left the country in
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: great shape. This crook who's demented took over and ruined
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: the country. The country's ruined right now. Got people killed
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: that shouldn't be killed. None of those people in Ukraine
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: be dead if Trump had remained president. Putin would have
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: invaded Ukraine if Trump were president. Not in a million years.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: So all those people in Ukraine would now be alive
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: if we hadn't made that mistake. How about the people
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: in Afghanistan that got killed because of him? And how
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: about people all over America that are getting killed because
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: he's got Soros district attorneys letting criminals go free? Soros
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: is the biggest contributor to those district attorneys, to Black
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: Lives Matter. to Antifa and to Joe Biden. So we
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: can't take a chance on not winning the next election.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: We may not have the America that we love if
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: we have it right now.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: And lastly, I just want to throw this in there.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: Do you feel misunderstood? And if you do, what do
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: you think is the most misunderstood?
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: Of course I feel misunderstood. All the people who attack
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 4: me have no idea what it is. decent, wonderful, nice
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 4: person I am. And that I'm thoroughly honest that I, I,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, they've accused me of every crime imaginable. They've
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 4: investigated me more thoroughly than just about anybody with Donald Trump. 20,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: they investigated 20 years of my business activities. They took
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: everything I have. They didn't find anything. They couldn't even
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: make anything up. So I wish they would stop, uh,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: these ridiculous attacks, um, I'm an alcoholic. Somebody just said
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 4: that when I wake up in the morning, I drink scotch.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: It's totally ridiculous. How could I have accomplished what I accomplished?
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: I was an alcoholic.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, how would you get through that?
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, an alcoholic destroyed the mafia. An alcoholic was
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: able to take over the Teamsters Union and change it.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: An alcoholic led the city on September 11th. reduce crime
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: more than any mayor in the history of the city
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 4: or any city ever. Nobody comes close to the crime
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: reduction that I did. There's no mayor in history that
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 4: ever reduced crime by 60%. And no mayor ever saved
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 4: more black lives than I did. Because most of the
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: lives saved by that were black. So I don't mind
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 4: if you politically oppose me. My political views are conservative
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 4: and Republican. And I respect people who are liberal and Democrat.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: I don't respect people who lie about me and get
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: so insane about it that they have to personally attack you.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: And it's getting worse and worse. I have read the
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: most ridiculous things about me that have nothing to do
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: with who I am.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: And the media has such power with narrating a story
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: for someone. And the public's appetite for that feeds on
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: it and feeds on it and makes it bigger and bigger.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: And a lot of times people.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: Do not know how.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: To decipher fact from fiction.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 4: Sometimes it hurts me. Sometimes it hurts me because there
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: are things that are really important to me. My reputation
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 4: as a lawyer is very important to me. And the
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: Bar Association of this city, which is left of left
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: of left and woke to an ultra extent, suspended me
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: because I'm a danger of causing a riot. It's absurd.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: I had nothing to do with that riot. In fact,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: a judge, an Obama judge, dismissed me from a case
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: saying that. But the Bar Association... still refuses to allow
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 4: me to practice my profession because they hate Trump. The
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 4: hatred of Trump is a sickness. And then they go
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: after his lawyers, his friends. They try to destroy you.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: They don't just try to oppose you. They try to
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 4: destroy you. Took away my law practice. They try to
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 4: get me fired here all the time. That's why I
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: started my own network. My own channel. Because they can't
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 4: stop me. And I'm not going to stop. And I'm
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: not going to keep my mouth shut. And I'm going
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: to tell the truth. Otherwise, the worst thing would happen.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't respect myself.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: Right, right. So if people want to hear more from you,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: they can listen to you.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, they can listen to me on RudyGiulianiCS.com.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 4: They can go right there and they can get everything.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: They can subscribe. And then I'm on WABCRadio.com every day
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 4: and on Sundays. And then they can go to Twitter
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 4: and they can get me 8 o'clock at night, every night.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 4: They can also get me on YouTube and any of
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: the social media, 8 o'clock at night.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, great. I appreciate you doing this. It was such
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: a pleasure. And I wish you the best.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 4: I wish you the best, too. Thank you. You're doing better?
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I am. I'm okay.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: I can see that.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I want to shake your hand.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: You could tell, please be sure to subscribe to the
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: show and give us a five-star rating and review. You
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: can support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: slash misunderstood with Rachel. You could tell, do you have
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: us at info misunderstood podcast at G. That's spelled M-I-S-S, understood.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: Where did you end up going for it?
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dada's connections with. They have more
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 6: cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 5: It's Dunediel.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: Dunediel.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: Do you mean.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dunediel Cars.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: Lift?
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 5: Please.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: You going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage. No.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 7: Dunediel Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.