Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / How Bob Grover Built One of the Top 20 Landscape Companies in the U.S.

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How Bob Grover Built One of the Top 20 Landscape Companies in the U.S. · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:17
today's guest is Bob Grover, president of Pacific Landscape
0:20
Management. Founded in 2001, they are known
0:23
for being a full service landscape asset manager offering
0:27
solutions like water conservation, snow and ice
0:29
management, green roofs, rain gardens, and more.
0:33
They focus on creating beautiful outdoor spaces while minimizing
0:36
environmental impact. They've also been recognized for
0:39
their commitment to sustainable landscapes, receiving praise
0:43
throughout the region. After falling in love with the
0:46
green industry working at a retail nursery in high school,
0:49
Bob studied horticulture at Oregon State University.
0:53
After graduating in 1983, he went to work for Northwest
0:56
Landscape Industries. After their acquisition in 1998
1:00
by Trugreen Landcare, Bob became Regional Manager of the
1:03
Northwest. In 2001, along with his long
1:06
time colleague Elias Godinez, they founded Pacific Landscape
1:10
Management and with over 2 decades at the helm, Bob has led
1:14
the team in prioritizing sustainable practices and
1:17
delivering high quality results. Under his leadership, the
1:21
company has also grown across Oregon and Southwest Washington,
1:24
serving many commercial and HOA properties.
1:28
Now to aid in expansion, in 2021, Bob partnered with
1:32
Southfield Capital and expanded to Seattle through acquisition.
1:36
This led to forming a parent company called Osprey Landscape
1:39
Management Group to facilitate expansion throughout the West.
1:43
Recently, Osprey partnered with Earthworks of Texas and now
1:47
ranks as the 20th largest landscape company in the US.
1:51
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2:31
All right, back to our guest today, founder of Pacific
2:34
Landscape Management and Osprey Landscape Group Company, Bob
2:38
Grover. Thanks for making the time to
2:40
Share your story today. Hey, thank you for having me.
2:44
So Bob, you studied horticulture in college and then started
2:48
working for a landscaping business right after graduation.
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Did you have an idea pretty early on that this was the
2:54
industry for you? Not necessarily, I just had a
2:58
glove for the out of doors. I thought I wanted to be maybe a
3:00
forest Ranger. It was really the experience at
3:04
the retail nursery and honestly it was because it was a a block
3:08
and 1/2 from my house. I could walk there before I
3:10
could drive. It was the easiest job to get
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and I went there and found my love of plants, thought I wanted
3:17
to be a nurseryman early on and went off college and learned a
3:22
little bit about the landscape trade and, and you know, started
3:25
working in the landscape trade during college.
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And I've not had a job outside of a paper route or picking
3:32
berries as a youth outside of the green industry.
3:35
Next year I'll be celebrating 50 years in the green industry.
3:40
Wow, it and looks like you worked for other people for
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about 18 years in the industry before making that decision to
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go off on your own. What was behind that decision?
3:51
Well, interesting. I, I out of college, I went to
3:53
work for the company in Northwest Landscape Industries,
3:56
a regional landscape company, very culturally based, really
4:00
focused on quality and, and really team building.
4:04
And when the 2 owners tried to determine what their exit
4:08
strategy is, that was right when our industry is starting to
4:11
consolidate and they sold the true Greenland care and I ended
4:16
up with a great job there. I was regional manager managing
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500 employees over Portland and Seattle.
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But the business really changed being a part of a Fortune 500
4:27
publicly traded company, it became all about the financial
4:31
metrics and I, I lost my connection to my customers.
4:35
I lost my connection to my people and I lost my connection
4:37
to plants And, and I, you know, I would didn't want to spend the
4:41
rest of my career, you know, as a, as a financial manager and
4:46
never thought of myself as an entrepreneur.
4:48
But when faced with what do I do next?
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I thought about, hey, should I maybe go to work for somebody
4:55
else? I actually decided one day this
4:58
wasn't for me and I decided I'm going to take a little
5:00
sabbatical after 18 years and decide what I wanted to do.
5:03
I thought maybe I'd get out of the industry.
5:05
I'm a addicted home number remodeler.
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I thought I may be house flipper for a while and decided after
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doing a major project on my house that I was not going to be
5:13
good at that as I was at landscaping.
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So decided to be an entrepreneur and we started from scratch and
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never thought we'd get to as big as prominent as we are.
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And really proud of the work that my partner and myself did
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and the great people that we've attracted to our organization
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and been able to retain. It's it's a magical place to
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when you have a great team that is inspired to do great work for
5:35
people. So you never really viewed
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yourself as an entrepreneur, yet you took the leap.
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Did you have some mentors along the way, Some coaching programs
5:47
you went through? Like, how did you kind of get
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levelled up to be ready for this?
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You know, I never really prepared for it, so I don't know
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if I was ever levelled up for that.
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I learned in my 18 years, you know, 15 years with the
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privately held company and even three years as a part of the
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publicly traded company, I've learned a lot about the
6:06
business, not just about landscape horticulture, but
6:09
about how to operate a business, how to treat customers well, how
6:12
to inspire employees. So I think I have a really,
6:15
really good foundation and it was really interesting to, to
6:18
start from scratch after running a $50 million division of a
6:23
company to start off of me and my partner and a couple of
6:26
people, You know, it's like, Oh my gosh, I, I can't wait till
6:30
we're big enough to have all these other resources that I've
6:33
had in the past. So it was a, a fun, interesting
6:36
challenge. And I, I think the education I
6:39
got from having been in business for I'm always to meet people.
6:41
Oh my gosh. How did you grow to the business
6:44
as big as you've grown it? And I, you know, well, I, I,
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I've managed a business this big or bigger before.
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And I, I learned through those experiences, learn what to do
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well and what to do poorly, you know, that I wasn't going to do.
6:57
Yeah. You have been able to be a part
6:59
of that tremendous growth and see the systems and processes
7:02
that were put in place. And even though you discovered
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that being part of a publicly traded company wasn't for you,
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I'm going to guess there were some things that they put in
7:09
place that you were able to learn from as well.
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And and tell me if I'm right or wrong here, Bob.
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Probably learn some things that you wanted to copy and then you
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learn from things that you didn't want to recreate in your
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own environment. Correct, correct.
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And I think the catch phrase that I would say, do the right
7:27
thing and the money will follow. If you focus on financial
7:31
metrics, you won't do the right things every time.
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And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that as
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businesses grow and get larger, you start making bad decisions
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based on strictly financial metrics.
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And you, you can't be ignorant of financial metrics are
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important. You have to make money to be
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able to support or your business, but by God, you got to
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make the right decisions for your people and your customers.
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And when you do that, magic happens and the finances come
7:59
together. Can you maybe think of a
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specific example of that? Doing something that's the right
8:05
thing that may be on paper doesn't look like the right
8:08
thing financially, but it plays out well for you in the end.
8:13
I, I think probably the biggest thing is pushing the envelope on
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what you can pay your employees and the benefits you can provide
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your employees. And in, in my business, 90% of
8:25
our cost is labor. And so, you know, if you have
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one thing that you can control, it would be the cost of Labor.
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So how many hours you bid into a job is one piece, but how much
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you pay those people and the prevent benefits you provide and
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the opportunity that you provide.
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And and I think sometimes people and I I hate the word human
8:48
resource because it makes it sound like a sack of fertilizer.
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You know, these are people, they are supporting their families.
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They have aspirations like I do personally.
8:58
And you got to treat them like people and push the envelope on
9:02
what you can do to help support them and provide them
9:04
opportunity. So they want to stay here and
9:06
they want to aspire for greatness.
9:09
So you make the decision to start your company.
9:13
How did you get that very first client?
9:16
You know, I, I think that is kind of interesting.
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One of the things I had a, a non compete agreement, so I had to
9:25
find people that I could serve for the first year.
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I was off about 5 months, so really was only about seven
9:30
months. I couldn't talk to anybody that
9:32
I had served or knew. So I had to go out and kind of
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beat the pavement and, and find some people.
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And one of the things that I found, especially after my non
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compete agreement ran out, I can start talking to people and I,
9:46
I, the one phrase that is I met people and talked about, Hey,
9:49
can I provide service to you? They say, well, hey, I'm really
9:52
excited for you, Bob. Let me know when you get things
9:54
going and, and come back and see me and like, well, I kind of
9:57
want you to help me get things going.
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So, but nobody wanted to be the Guinea pig.
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Nobody wanted to be the Guinea pig.
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But I found enough people that were willing to do that.
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And it's, it's amazing. And I remember when I was
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putting together marketing material, my first reference
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list of 6 people was all six of my customers.
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But we quickly developed a good reputation because we were doing
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good work and we were really focusing on taking care of the
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customer. And we have a, a phrase that,
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you know, it's all about we, we, we take care of landscapes, but
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it's really all about people. Our business is all about
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people. It's about our customers and
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it's about our employees. And inspired employees will take
10:36
care of great customers. And you have to have both of
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those in in in connection. Yeah.
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I'm seeing the theme developing here.
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So what are some things, you know, competitive labor market
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especially for what you do, I would assume you know, what are
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some things that you've found that have been helpful for you
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in recruiting and retention? One, one of the things that that
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we've done being a growing company, we've grown for 25
11:03
years, creating opportunity, our growth and, and one of the
11:08
things that when we started this company, you know, way back 25
11:11
years ago, it's like, gosh, can we build an organization that
11:15
would support Elias and, and my families and our growth.
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And as we grew and we started attracting people to us fairly
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quickly we determine, hey, this is not just about Bob and Elias,
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this is about those people that we brought on board.
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We need to provide opportunity for those people as well.
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So much of our growth over our history has been to continue to
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provide opportunity for people. So it's not just about paying
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people more to do the same job for the rest of their life.
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It's trying to create an opportunity to work.
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As we grow, we're creating opportunity for people to grow
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in around us. So people that, you know, we
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have a number of people that are in managerial positions that
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started out as laborers with us. So, you know, I went to college,
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a number of our managers went to college, not all of them did.
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And it's a creating an opportunity, creating training
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and development programs to help and help people further and, and
12:08
benefit themselves. So really focusing on what can
12:11
we do to help build and create opportunity for people is a a
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magical tool for helping inspire people of, hey, if I stay around
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here, I'm going to have more opportunity.
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If I work hard and I learn, I'm going to have greater
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opportunity to make, can make more money.
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So it's not just about paying more, it's about creating
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opportunity where they're worth more and then you can pay more.
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You know, I've had the opportunity to talk to a lot of
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people in the restaurant industry, and I hear them talk
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in in a similar way where, you know, people can do well and
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kind of work their way up in that industry without maybe
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having like the, you know, best educational background.
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You don't need a college degree. Sometimes people come from some,
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you know, rougher backgrounds, but people who are willing to
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apply themselves, learn the trade, buy into the system
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there. There is that opportunity for
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advancement. That's the same kind of thing
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I'm hearing you talk about, Bob. Absolutely.
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You don't necessarily have to be highly educated when you get
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here, but you have to be willing to educate yourself and we
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provide lots of opportunities for people to do that.
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So if you just want to be a labourer the rest of your life,
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that's fine, you're probably not going to get ahead.
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But if you want to learn and develop skills, and we do in
13:22
house training, we support outside education and created
13:27
this culture that there was opportunity.
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But you know, they have to have skin in the game.
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They have to want to grow and develop themselves and and you
13:35
know, we'll provide that opportunity.
13:38
OK. So let's get into explaining
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sort of the breadth of the services that you provide.
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And maybe first start with, are you mostly commercial?
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Do you do residential work as well?
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We don't do any true residential work.
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We are consider ourselves commercial but in commercial we
13:53
would take we take care of home owner association.
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So common area and around condominiums and most home owner
13:59
associations today or most homes to built today are in home owner
14:03
association. So that's been a growing segment
14:05
of our businesses. But we do commercial maintenance
14:09
our relationship with our customers based on an ongoing
14:12
relationship a year round service of their property.
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But about half of what we do is construction related because as
14:19
landscapes age and mature, they need to be fixed, repaired,
14:23
updated. So, but we don't do new
14:26
installation per SE and we don't do individual residential home
14:31
maintenance or or installation. Why not new installations?
14:36
It seems like you guys have the skills if you're doing going in
14:38
to do rebuilds that that would kind of fit too.
14:41
We do and we have been encouraged or challenged to do
14:46
that in the past. And some of that is my education
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from where I worked for the 18 years working for the other
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company. I went through several economic
14:55
cycles and maintenance growth would slow down a little bit and
14:59
construction growth would disappear and we'd have to lay
15:03
off people, maybe sell equipment and the, you know, it's very
15:06
cyclical in of the business climate and I just didn't want
15:11
to go through those kind of experiences.
15:14
It's it's nice to grow and grow faster when things are good, but
15:19
grow slower when things are bad. Even in the 2008 910, we still
15:24
grew a little bit. You know, we always considered
15:27
ourselves recession proof. Well, we're recession resistant
15:32
construction. It's devastating in in a
15:35
recession. That makes a lot of sense.
15:37
The the maintenance side of things is going to remain more
15:40
stable. People need that regular routine
15:42
care, but the new projects they're going to, you're going
15:46
to deal with that influx that up and down as the economy goes.
15:49
Yeah. And and then it it's so painful,
15:52
especially, you know, for a group like yours, Bob, where you
15:54
guys put such a big emphasis on the culture and employees and
15:58
wanting to remain loyal to folks to have to staff up and then
16:01
staff down, let folks go. That's that's not the kind of
16:05
culture it sounds like you guys are trying to build there.
16:07
Absolutely, absolutely. We to take care of our people,
16:11
we need to have a consistent, stable business, growing
16:14
business. So tell us more about the
16:17
specific services that you provide and the maintenance work
16:20
then? Basically it's full service.
16:23
If you have a property, we take care of everything outside that
16:26
has anything plant related. We don't do parking lots, we
16:29
don't do sidewalks, we don't do, you know, windows, but
16:33
everything related to the outsource.
16:35
So you know, typical lawn care, typical shrub care, weed
16:39
control, pest control. Couple things that are kind of
16:42
interesting about our industry is we're slower in the winter in
16:46
most of the regions, so we've become the snow service
16:50
provider. So whether it's plowing snow,
16:52
shoveling snow, de icing sidewalks that that you know,
16:56
when it happens in the Northwest, that's a service that
16:59
we provide as well. So big piece of what we do today
17:04
and talk a little bit about our our sustainability efforts, but
17:06
water conservation, water cost of skyrocketed across the
17:11
country, but specifically here in the Portland and Seattle
17:14
markets. We ironically have a reputation
17:17
of being a very, very rainy climate, but Portland and
17:21
Seattle are some of the driest areas in July, August and
17:24
September outside of the desert S the West.
17:27
So irrigation is critical and water is it become very, very
17:31
expensive. It's some of the most expensive
17:33
water in the nation ironically. So why would not have just that?
17:37
I feel like every time I visit Seattle it's cloudy and it's
17:40
raining, but well come here in July, August and September.
17:43
It's God's country, 85° and no humidity and no rain.
17:48
OK. All right.
17:49
There. One of many things I'm going to
17:51
learn today and you're talking about sustainability.
17:54
I mean you guys have expanded to 9 branches and there is this big
17:58
emphasis on sustainability. Is that driven by just what
18:04
feels good at your core or is it good for business?
18:08
How do you guys think about this it?
18:10
It's a little bit of both and the sustainable movement in
18:14
general I think has been inspiring and frustrating at the
18:18
same time. A lot of things that we do in in
18:22
our industry have changed dramatically in my, you know, 40
18:25
years in, in landscape contracting.
18:29
We are using less chemicals, we are using more fuel efficient
18:32
equipment. We are using less water through
18:35
water conservation. But one of the things in the
18:38
sustainable movement is some people I think treated a little
18:41
bit more of a religion. We will, we will be 100%
18:44
organic. We will stop using gas powered
18:47
equipment and vehicles. We will use no, you know, we use
18:50
no water. Let's do it into 0 escaping.
18:52
And I always compare it to if you buy a Prius back in the day,
18:59
a hybrid car or a Tesla today, you're still buying a
19:03
manufactured car that gets you from home to work.
19:07
So to say that I can't use fertilizers or chemicals or our,
19:10
our gas powered or, you know, that there's a cost associated
19:15
with or, you know, sustainability is 3 pieces.
19:18
It is sensitive to the environment, it is affordable
19:22
and it, it provides a product that's acceptable to the
19:25
customer. So you have to do those 3.
19:27
And when you say I just want to eliminate all inputs to
19:30
landscaping, you're probably going to be too expensive.
19:34
You can't pull a weed until you see it.
19:37
And you know, it's got to be acceptable to the, the end
19:40
product. So we found that we do
19:42
everything that we can to lessen the impact of the methodology of
19:47
maintaining landscapes while maintaining the positive aspect
19:50
of the landscape at the same cost as it would be otherwise.
19:53
So back in, you know, the early 2000s, as the sustainable
19:59
movement got started, we're trying to develop a package of,
20:02
OK, here's what we could do that would be more sustainable, all
20:05
this kind of stuff. And it'll cost, you know, 5 or
20:07
10 or 15% more and. As soon as you start talking
20:11
about it's going to cost more, our customers eyes would glaze
20:14
over and then we start saying, OK, if there's an additional
20:18
cost to it, people are probably not as interested.
20:21
But what can we do? And we figured out every year
20:24
we're a little bit more sustainable, a little bit less
20:27
chemical, you know, conversion to electric equipment versus gas
20:30
powered equipment, all those kind of things that we're doing
20:34
of it's not a stop today, it's what can we do a little bit
20:38
better next year. And, you know, 15 years later,
20:40
we're doing a lot of things significantly different.
20:44
You know, it's really interesting to hear you talk
20:46
like that. Excuse me, because you're right.
20:48
Like if if you go to 1 Extreme very quickly, you're going to
20:53
price yourself out of the market.
20:55
You know, the company's not going to be around, you're not
20:56
creating those jobs. And so this incremental change,
21:01
OK, you know, we need to replace, you know, how many weed
21:04
whackers this year? Can we do an electric version of
21:06
that? You know, and, and sort of doing
21:09
it incrementally, step by Are you guys running sprinkler
21:22
systems that operate differently?
21:25
That that that. I'm glad you asked that question
21:27
because what we found is oversimplifying.
21:30
It is OK, we just need to deliver the water better to the
21:33
landscape. So drip irrigation, so not
21:35
spraying sprinklers on shrubs. Weather based irrigation is if
21:40
it's hot today, you water more. If it rains tomorrow, you water
21:43
less. Having the irrigation system
21:44
automatically do those kind of things.
21:46
What we found is a significant part of water conservation is re
21:51
evaluating your landscape. Turf lawn is the cheapest
21:57
landscape that you can install. So and it's desirable.
22:01
People like grass, you know, America loves grass, but it's
22:06
also the cheapest aspect of of what you can install.
22:09
Shrubs and trees are more expensive per square foot to
22:12
install them than lawn. So there's a lot of lawn out
22:15
there in places that maybe shouldn't be.
22:17
So an example, if you go into a business park or a homeowner
22:22
association and there's a parking island where people are
22:24
parking on both sides of it, a lot of times those are grass.
22:28
Well, it's hard to get your lawn mower in there and it's really
22:30
hard to water it because there's concrete on both sides is
22:34
probably gravel underneath there.
22:35
It's a horrible place to grow grass and we think that it takes
22:39
3 or 4 times as much water to grow to to grow lawn there to
22:42
keep it looking nice. Parking strips along the roadway
22:45
between the sidewalk and the road, you know, really common to
22:49
have trees and a lawn in those areas.
22:52
Very difficult to so we're saying let's re evaluate the
22:56
landscape where it's difficult to water is there a different
22:59
ground cover or a different planting that we could put there
23:02
so sometimes it's modifying the irrigation system, the new
23:06
irrigation technology is better. Sometimes it's modifying the
23:09
landscape and we can make it not just save water, but sometimes
23:13
it looks better when you have trees in a parking strip, the
23:16
trees are out competing the lawn and you have brown patches
23:19
around the trees. It's not attractive and it's
23:22
taking a lot of water to try to try to do that.
23:25
So we're combining, improving a landscape, some of the
23:28
renovations, updating. We do remodeling is water
23:31
conservation related and it looks prettier when you're done.
23:35
That makes a lot of sense. So you know, you're basically
23:37
becoming consultants or advisors to your clients and saying, hey,
23:40
I think there's a better approach here in this part of
23:42
the parking lot rather than grass, let's do something else
23:46
that's not going to require as much water.
23:48
Maybe the installation of it is going to be a little bit more
23:50
expensive than that grass, but long term maintenance is going
23:54
to be easier and you're going to spend less on water.
23:57
Yep. And that's why we consider any
23:59
in that description of us, we consider ourselves a landscape
24:02
asset manager because whether you're home owner association or
24:05
a business, that's part of your physical asset.
24:09
And we want to help people not just make it look pretty, but a
24:13
cost effectively. What is the best way to invest
24:15
in it? What's in the best way to
24:17
maintain it properly to where it looks good tomorrow, five years
24:20
and now 10 years from now, could we change things today that
24:23
makes it more efficient and attractive in the future?
24:27
And a lot of times we'll do ROI cost studies on, hey, this is a
24:31
way you could save over in over five years.
24:33
You could pay for this project with water conservation or
24:36
reduce maintenance cost by doing things different.
24:38
So we consider ourselves a landscape asset manager, not
24:41
just a maintenance contract. So talking a lot about water
24:45
conservation, explain to me what green roofs and bioswales are.
24:50
OK, a green roof, a typical building when it rains, you have
24:57
a asphalt shingle, rough flat roof downtown.
25:02
Water hits the roof, it goes into the drain, it goes right
25:04
straight down into the storm drain system and it over whelms
25:08
the the storm drain system and it also takes dust and other
25:12
particles in with it down in there.
25:15
That creates a lot of problems. So a green roof is a way to
25:18
partly to slow down the water from going into the storm
25:21
drainage system and maybe utilize some of it and clean
25:23
that water up before it goes in there.
25:25
So that is not as common. Newer buildings are more likely
25:31
to have green roofs. It's sometimes hard to renovate
25:33
an existing building into a green roof, a bioswale, or a bio
25:38
roof. Hang on, before we go on to the
25:39
bio soil, I want to make sure that I understand the green
25:41
roof. So does that mean that you're
25:42
putting soil and plants on top of the?
25:44
Roof very, very light soil and usually, sometimes they'll be
25:50
shrubs, but usually it's a, a, a low ground covering kind of
25:54
thing that ideally you don't, you're on the roof of a
25:57
building. You don't want to have to prune
25:59
stuff and and try to take stuff away.
26:01
So sedums is a very common thing, usually shallow soil and
26:05
some kind of ground cover. Sedums that are very drought
26:08
tolerant and don't create a lot of debris that you have to take
26:11
off of the roof. That makes sense.
26:13
Plus you don't want a lot of soil because it's going to add a
26:16
lot of extra weight to the roof. And if especially if the roof
26:19
hasn't been designed for that, that could be problematic.
26:21
Correct. Correct.
26:23
OK, so Bioswale, what's that? So water again in the parking
26:28
lot, if you go back, you know, 50 years, it went right straight
26:31
into the storm drain system. Well, lots of debris, whether
26:35
it's, you know, from the, you know, oil spilling on the road
26:40
or whatever. A lot of times it's, it's just
26:42
dust that collects on the road. And as soon as it rains that
26:46
washes into the storm drain systems.
26:48
And that is polluting a lot of times with just mineral elements
26:52
that come out of the, the, the dust and soil that grow algae
26:58
and, and problems with the, the, where the water ends up.
27:02
So a bioswale is also designed to capture that water, process
27:06
it, clean it, slow it down from going into a lot of times it
27:09
goes into a river and, and try to clean it up before it goes in
27:13
there. So those are just vegetated
27:15
areas where it's grass or shrubs or a variety of different plant
27:18
material that that it's a big pond.
27:21
It'll usually fill up when it rains heavily and slowly ease
27:24
out. Some of them go into the ground,
27:26
but a lot of it still goes on into the storm rain system into
27:28
a river, but much cleaner, much cleaner.
27:32
And then how does that bioswale get cleaned out itself?
27:36
Well, that or is it just sort of?
27:38
Collect all of that that residue.
27:41
Over time, bioswales will need to be cleaned out because a
27:44
little bit of that residue, if you leave 1/4 inch of silt on
27:48
the bottom of it, 20 years later that's you know, 6 inches of
27:50
silt and that'll fill up. So bioswales need to be managed
27:54
and maintained. They were over promised when
27:58
they were put in to say, hey, just we'll plant native plants
28:01
around it and it'll take care of itself.
28:03
It won't need any maintenance. Well, a lot of times they fail
28:06
and a lot of times people run into trouble of they have a
28:10
failing system or the city comes back and says, hey, it's not the
28:14
way it was designed. If you want to do a a renovation
28:17
or a major new expansion to your property, you have to do
28:19
something rather to bring your bioswale back up to the standard
28:23
that it was built to. And so we're seeing a lot of
28:27
restoration projects in and around bioswales and encouraging
28:30
people that you should probably put those into your maintenance
28:32
program so you don't get in trouble down the road.
28:35
And so visually, what does a bioswale look like?
28:38
Is this just sort of like a, a retention pond that, you know,
28:41
I'm seeing from the surface? Is it like sort of underground
28:44
somewhere that's covered? There are some that are
28:47
underground, most of them are are above ground.
28:49
Usually it's a depression. You'll find the lowest place in
28:52
the property. Sometimes it's the front of the
28:55
property, sometimes it's the back of the property because you
28:56
have to let the water get there naturally through just gravity
29:00
flow. Sometimes they're just a
29:03
vegetated Swale and allowed to grow up and be, you know, I
29:06
think kind of ugly. Sometimes they're designed as a
29:09
part of a landscape element and attractive and, and we try to
29:12
encourage people of, hey, if you want to, you know, you have to
29:15
have a bioswale, you should have it be part of the landscape and
29:20
maintain so it it's functional, but not an eyesore in your
29:24
landscape area. And, and you know, some
29:26
customers, you know, hey, if it's in the back, maybe you
29:28
don't care, but sometimes the low point in the property is out
29:31
front. And if it's your front door, you
29:32
probably want it to be nicer and not grow up and be ugly.
29:35
I. Want to go back to your time at
29:38
Northwest Landscape Industries? You know, which then became true
29:42
Greenland Care and talk about particularly challenging
29:47
experience and how working through that has influenced your
29:52
leadership today. I, I, I think a lot of it gets
29:57
back to the decisions that you make.
30:01
Sometimes the easy button is I'm going to stop doing something
30:05
rather that I think I can get away with that the client won't
30:08
notice. And sometimes that, you know,
30:12
it's the easy button is I can't afford to pay my people what,
30:17
you know, maybe they need to to, you know, to be a good
30:20
environment. So I think we have over our our
30:25
time learn to if you, if you say I can't, it's a pretty quick no.
30:30
If you say, gosh, I got to figure out how to do that.
30:34
And there been a lot of examples to where we've done things over
30:37
the course of our history that have been challenging.
30:40
We figured out how to make them financially work when maybe at
30:43
the surface they, they, they didn't through the last number
30:47
of years, you know, there's been some significant inflationary
30:51
impacts to, to our business and needing to pay, we're paying
30:58
twice the wage that we did 8 years ago, which is a really
31:03
good thing for industry getting closer to, especially at the,
31:07
the labor level. Our entry level labor level for
31:12
unskilled labor is $21.00 an hour.
31:15
Now that doesn't sound great if you're a college graduate, but
31:18
if you were an unskilled laborer, that's way better than,
31:22
you know, $10.00 an hour. And that's been challenging.
31:26
We've not been able to pass that directly on to our customers.
31:29
So we've had to learn how to be more efficient.
31:32
So whether it's the, the way we do things, the schedule we do
31:36
things, the equipment that we're using, we've been very, very
31:39
creative on figuring out how to continue to pay our people the
31:42
wages that we need to pay to have them to be able to support
31:45
their families and redesign how we operate to still provide the
31:50
the same quality product with, with less labor.
31:53
Because our customers aren't paying twice what what they paid
31:58
8 years ago, while we're being able to pay our our our our
32:02
employees twice. So how do you find those
32:04
efficiencies? Then you you have to increase
32:07
the amount that you're paying your labor, which is your
32:09
largest expense, but you can't pass on all those increases to
32:13
your customers. What are you guys doing in the
32:15
middle? Well, part of that is, you know,
32:18
one of those cultural pieces of honoring your employees of it
32:22
takes a village to figure out how to be more efficient.
32:24
So we are very encouraging to people across the spectrum of
32:29
trying, experimenting and, and making suggestions on what we
32:32
could do differently. And we're constantly looking for
32:36
new creative ideas on how to do things slightly differently that
32:38
would be improving our efficiency.
32:40
And, and those come from all rank and file members, not just
32:44
managers. It's just, and that's one of
32:46
those things where in some of that environment and employee
32:49
centric environment is everybody's opinion counts.
32:52
Now there's some crazy ideas out there and sometimes those crazy
32:56
ideas come from the the lowest level.
32:58
Hey, this why don't we do this a little bit different and how we
33:01
operate. And it's been very exciting to
33:04
have everybody be a part of that process of helping us improve
33:07
our product and improve our efficiency.
33:10
So you were with Northwest Landscape Industries for a
33:16
number of years, and you stayed with True Green for a few years.
33:21
A publicly traded company decided that wasn't the right
33:24
environment for you. You got disconnected from your
33:26
employees. You got disconnected from your
33:28
clients, disconnected from the plants.
33:30
There's a big reason why you want to go out on your own and
33:32
start your own thing. Now you have a partnership with
33:37
an equity group. How are you ensuring that those
33:41
same issues that inspired you to leave triggering land care won't
33:46
occur with Osprey? You know, and that I think
33:50
that's, I'm glad you asked me that question because that is
33:54
probably at this point in my career, I'm, I'm, I'm 64 today.
33:58
And when we started in this process of determining, you
34:03
know, five years ago, gosh, my business partner, I at some
34:07
point we need to transition out. Are we going to sell our
34:11
company? Are we going to create an ESOP?
34:14
Are we going to do a manager buyout?
34:16
Are we going to give it to our children?
34:17
And there's lots of options on on how you transition out and
34:23
having had a bad experience in the past on selling to a
34:27
complete, you know, the OR previous owners sold to another
34:30
company. They sold to a company that
34:34
didn't completely understand our business.
34:37
Excuse me, True Green Land Care was owned by service master.
34:40
They're a residential service based organization.
34:45
Residential service is totally different than commercial
34:48
service even in landscaping and our range of services that we
34:52
provide, True Green Land Care takes care of fertilization and
34:56
weed control in lawns and landscapes and they're very good
35:01
at that and they're very efficient at that and they know
35:03
how to sell that and they know how to operate that.
35:06
Doing full server landscaping for a commercial operation or
35:11
commercial property is much more complicated and one of the
35:16
things that I don't think they understood or appreciated is how
35:20
you interact with your customer is very, very important.
35:24
We consider ourselves a relationship based business to
35:27
where every customer has different expectations for their
35:31
landscape. Some are long term hold, some
35:34
are a strategy to buy, fix it and sell it.
35:39
So you got to understand your your customer strategy and I
35:43
don't think they appreciated that.
35:45
So making sure that we are managed and run by landscape
35:53
managers that understand the landscape business.
35:55
When we took on our partner four years ago, this was a transition
36:01
out that I said I'm, you know, I'm probably on for five or six
36:04
years and then I will retire. We've hired actually now ACEO
36:08
for the Osprey Landscape Group. We created a parent company.
36:11
We're going to grow outside of the Pacific Northwest.
36:13
We're going to partner with other companies, with other
36:15
brands and our our CEO that we brought on, he's like me spent
36:21
his entire career in landscaping.
36:23
The equity group that we chose is somebody that honored and
36:27
appreciated us wanting to retain the magic of not trying to do
36:31
something different because they knew how to run our business.
36:34
So it's been a gradual transition of me leaving the and
36:40
getting prepared to leave the organization.
36:42
But we brought in somebody as CEO that understands our
36:45
business and we promoted some people under me that have grown
36:48
up in our business and understand our business.
36:49
I'm very, very comfortable that that we are going to continue to
36:52
be staffed when I am ready to retire and leave because these
36:58
are landscapers that understand our business and understand
37:00
service and understand how to manage the the the commercial
37:04
client and how to take care of and inspire and develop people.
37:09
What do you think the timeline going forward looks like for you
37:13
to kind of fully step away from the company?
37:16
You know, and I'm asked that a lot over this time.
37:19
I'm not sure exactly how long I'm my wife retired five years
37:25
ago about the time that we we did this and I promised her that
37:29
I will retire at some point. I'm becoming more flexible so I
37:36
I don't have to go to the office every day.
37:37
I work probably more out of my Home Office and here I'm
37:40
traveling more, some for the business and, and some
37:44
personally. So I, I wouldn't be surprised if
37:48
I stay connected for, you know, 5 or 6 or 7 more years in a
37:52
very, very limited capacity. I have no operational
37:56
responsibility anymore. I consider myself an advisor and
37:59
an ambassador and I'm really enjoying that role, really
38:02
enjoying not, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm sitting here in
38:08
my Home Office today. I was working for a couple hours
38:10
before this came on board and you know, I'm going to do some
38:14
stuff for my business and I'm going to do some stuff
38:17
personally. And I have that flexibility and
38:19
I'm I'm loving that I'm staying connected to the organization I
38:23
love and having more flexibility to take care of my wife and take
38:27
care of my house and travel. That's great.
38:31
We'll have to check back in with you in a couple of years and see
38:33
how that transition is continuing to unfold.
38:36
But I'm curious up until this point, the growth strategies
38:41
that you've found success with what what's kind of been the
38:43
biggest lever that you've pulled that has helped with that?
38:49
Well, in, in our business, as I said it, it's a relationship
38:55
business. It's difficult to sell work to a
39:00
new customer or sell additional work to folks just by, you know,
39:05
people don't go on the Internet and find a landscape contractor.
39:10
Most of our work comes off of referral or comes off of our
39:13
reputation. So we spend a lot of time
39:18
working in real estate trade associations.
39:22
There's an organization called Boma, Naab IRAM, IFMA that work
39:28
with real estate owners, whether they're commercial property
39:33
managers or homeowner associations or facility
39:36
managers. We've gotten very, very involved
39:39
in those organizations to be able to interact with people.
39:43
Our customers at those will introduce us to other prospects.
39:47
We'll learn and find people and just being present in the
39:51
environment where, you know, if you walk into somebody's office,
39:53
you're going to bug them. If you meet them at a real
39:56
estate trade association event, they're there to meet other
39:59
people to be in a social environment.
40:02
And we found that that's been very, very effective of, of, you
40:06
know, where they're seeing our existing customers and they're
40:08
meeting new customers and being in their environment is, is a
40:11
probably the biggest area. We, we do sell, but we probably
40:17
market strongly and we sell when people ask.
40:21
We're looking for people that are disappointed with their
40:24
current vendor. If somebody you know, if we go
40:27
out, if you're happy. I don't want to sell you if
40:30
you're not happy. I'm going to I'm going to do
40:33
everything I can to show you that I can make you happy again.
40:35
And that's what we found is is you know what, what can I do to
40:39
put you in a car today? I wasn't looking for a car
40:41
today. Hey, I want a car.
40:44
Let me help you get the right car.
40:48
My my landscape contractor is great.
40:50
I'm happy with them. I got a great relationship.
40:51
They're doing a good job. Hey, I'll stay away from you.
40:54
Call me when you're not happy and I'm going to keep keep
40:57
talking and touching you. And someday I'm going to find
41:01
you're not happy, and that's going to be my opportunity.
41:04
I talked with a president of a commercial cleaning service, you
41:10
know, so they clean buildings. And he had a kind of a similar
41:13
approach, excuse me, where, you know, their sort of motto was, I
41:17
don't want to be your cleaning company, I want to be your next
41:20
cleaning company. And it's a similar kind of
41:22
mentality that I know at some point you're going to become
41:25
unhappy with your service provider.
41:27
So let's stay in touch so that when that happens, then we've
41:31
got a chance to to talk and work together.
41:34
And, and Bob, as you kind of look back over your life and
41:39
your career, what's a serious challenge that you've overcome,
41:43
whether it's something personal or professional?
41:45
How'd you get through that? And wouldn't you learn?
41:49
Well, you know, I would say one of the greatest challenges was
41:57
when I determined that, you know, working for a Fortune 500
42:03
company, I didn't really like my job anymore.
42:06
I never consider myself an entrepreneur trying to make a
42:10
decision on what to do and then deciding I wanted to start my
42:13
business. It's not easy to come up with
42:19
the capital it takes or take the risk it takes.
42:23
And, you know, that was a huge, huge step in, you know, for a
42:27
while that, hey, maybe I should go to work for somebody else,
42:30
what I should do. And you know how I overcome
42:33
that. You know, the support of my
42:37
wife, I think was incredible. She was a school teacher and we
42:44
were in the ability to, I could live off her salary for a year
42:47
or so as I, I started things up. And just as I said, and I, I
42:51
never consider myself necessarily an entrepreneur and
42:54
have that desire. So starting from scratch and
42:57
trying to figure out how to build something from zero was a,
43:00
which a, a huge challenge and, and you know, huge risk.
43:05
I don't know what the percentage is of, of business startups that
43:08
failed, but it's, you know, over 50%.
43:10
So that was a scary moment. It was inspiring, but it was
43:14
also a very, very scary moment in my life of I need to do
43:19
something different. What's the right thing to do for
43:21
myself, my family and re recreate the environment that I
43:26
wanted to. And I determined I, I needed to
43:28
give it a shot myself And, and, you know, the support of my wife
43:32
and family and I had young kids at the time.
43:35
So really it's more of the support of my wife was just
43:39
really, really appreciate her when I said I think I want to do
43:43
that. And she says you got a year,
43:44
Bob. You're on the clock.
43:48
Go. So how did you pull together the
43:50
funds in those early days to make this happen?
43:53
Well, having, you know, been 18 years into my adult life and
43:58
career and being a relatively conservative financial person,
44:03
we had some savings, but I was also very surprised at where I
44:07
needed capital, you know, equipment, trucks, we could
44:11
finance those. So I was pleasantly surprised
44:16
how financially easy it was. Now as long as I continue to
44:20
generate revenue to pay for those truck, truck payments and
44:25
vehicle payments. I rented some property from a
44:29
friend that had a business that the end of his warehouse that I
44:32
started out with. You know, it's just like trying
44:35
to be creative on how to be very cost effective in, in how we
44:40
operated. And you know, we surprisingly
44:44
didn't need a ton of capital resources to get going.
44:49
And the landscape maintenance business is very cash flow
44:53
basic. You know, we we bill people
44:56
amortized over 12 months. So you've got you sign a
44:59
contract, you're getting a check every month and they're pretty
45:02
good about paying that. That was the other thing in that
45:04
construction business is a lot of times you have a huge capital
45:08
outlay. You got to put a plant material,
45:10
you got to buy soya, got to be irrigation products and you get
45:13
a bill as you complete work. And sometimes they don't pay you
45:17
quickly on time and maintenance or they pay net 30.
45:20
So we generate a good cash flow that could pay those costs of
45:24
those equipments and leases and and you know, these supplies
45:28
that we need to buy. So it, it was scary, but it
45:31
worked out. Worked out really, really well.
45:35
And now with the big growth plans that you guys have, I
45:38
heard you say that you're looking to partner with existing
45:42
firms, landscape companies and different geographies.
45:46
How does that work? Well, part of it is we're
45:51
looking for partners that can add to and have similar cultural
45:55
values as as we're, we're not looking to buy and fix, you
45:59
know, we're not a fixer upper kind of organizations.
46:02
We want to buy quality landscape companies.
46:05
You know, maybe people are in similar situations as we are.
46:08
They want to grow, they may need capital to grow, they want to
46:11
expand. Or maybe there are, if it's on
46:14
some stage in their career where they're wanting to have a long
46:16
term extra strategy. And you know, there's, there's a
46:20
lot of competition. Our industry is becoming
46:24
consolidated and some people are doing it well and some people
46:28
are doing it poorly, which creates opportunity for us, but
46:31
it also creates a lot of competition.
46:34
I'm very involved in our, our real, our, our landscape trade
46:39
association. I know a lot of folks across the
46:41
country and you know, some of our effort is on, you know, you
46:45
know, connecting with people that I've known for a number of
46:47
years that they know have a good reputation through their
46:51
involvement in our, our trade association and, and aware of
46:55
their, their operations. So we're being very selective
46:57
and and who we approach and are looking for really quality
47:01
organizations that we don't have to fix.
47:04
You said that there are a number of companies that are doing this
47:06
consolidation poorly. What is it you guys are doing
47:09
differently to set yourselves apart?
47:14
Well, I think #1 we're being very, very careful to make the
47:18
right choice for acquisition. So some people might be
47:21
acquiring more or faster. I think the fact that we're
47:26
building an organization that is run by people that have been in
47:29
landscape their entire careers and understanding that to do
47:33
well in this business, you have to know this business.
47:35
I think those are really the two cores of we don't want to make
47:38
an acquisition just to acquire. We want to make an acquisition
47:41
that we're going to be proud of and is going to add to our
47:44
quality. And by gosh, we're going to run
47:46
it like landscapers, very sophisticated, skilled business
47:50
landscapers. But you need to understand this
47:53
business. You need to understand how to
47:55
manage and inspire employees. You need to understand how to
47:58
serve, serve and communicate with customers.
48:01
And if you haven't done that in this trade, you probably are
48:06
going to make some mistakes. And we're very, very focused on
48:09
making sure that we do it the way a landscaper should.
48:14
Bob, what's your superpower? Well, interesting.
48:19
I think I will share my superpower with my business
48:23
partner Elias. I am, I am highly motivated and
48:31
I've learned over my 40 years of how to properly communicate and
48:36
honor a customer and I get on my stump all the time and training
48:43
in the development of our people and helping inspire them how
48:47
important it is to we need to be the easy button.
48:50
You know, one of my philosophies are if a customer calls you and
48:53
tells you something about their landscaping that you don't know,
48:56
you don't know enough about the landscaping advantaging form.
48:59
So we want to be the easy button.
49:01
We want to be one step ahead of our customers and we want to
49:03
always tell them something or other before they find it out on
49:06
themselves. And I'm a huge fan of when we
49:10
screw up, tell them you screwed up and you're fixing it.
49:14
I think natural behavior is, gosh, maybe they didn't see and
49:19
I can fix it before they find out.
49:21
They always find out before you fix it.
49:23
So I'm a huge believer in humbling yourself when you screw
49:27
up because we all, you know, everybody screws up.
49:30
There are problems. My business partners superpower
49:36
is probably more focused on. He was our, you know, he is our
49:42
operations manager, runs and trains and develops our, our,
49:46
our, our production folks very, very inspired.
49:50
He's a landscaper, but he's a people builder and he just so
49:53
happens to be a landscaper. You know, I think I probably
49:56
have more love of plants for him, but I'm the people pleaser,
50:00
the customer pleaser. He is the employee pleaser and
50:02
developer. So it's those skills and focus
50:06
and passions for people on both sides is our superpower.
50:12
I love that. I love that you brought him into
50:13
the answer. How about some daily habits or
50:18
rituals? Things that help to start your
50:20
day or keep you on track. Well, whether that's a
50:26
superpower daily habit, I am very, very good about managing
50:32
when next to when those calls come in, when those emails come
50:35
in of probably my daily habit at the end of the day of making
50:39
sure that I have made a priority of those things that have come
50:43
in that I need to deal with the next day.
50:44
Do I need to deal with them right now?
50:47
I kind of have a a end of day process of, Oh my gosh, this is
50:51
something that I didn't get accomplished today.
50:53
I have to start out the next day of getting that accomplished.
50:55
So making my list of these are the priorities more so based on
51:00
the stuff that comes to me as opposed to hey, I want to take
51:04
care of this. I want this is an objective that
51:06
I want to do. A lot of times those are longer
51:08
term. But my daily deal is don't let
51:10
the day end without making sure that you know what came in of a
51:13
request that you need to facilitate and get taken care
51:17
of. If you didn't get it today, by
51:18
God, you got to do it tomorrow morning.
51:21
Best decision you. Ever made for your business?
51:24
What? Best decision you ever made for
51:27
your business, Bob. Well partnering up with my
51:32
partner Alias is probably the best decision I ever made.
51:35
I knew I didn't want to go it alone.
51:37
I'd worked with him for about 8 years at the previous company.
51:42
I probably under appreciated how skilled and gifted he was in
51:45
training and developing people. And that you know, it's just
51:50
it's in, it's in. I can't imagine having gone it
51:54
alone, but I could have gone it in partnership with somebody not
51:59
as skilled a gift as he was, and I just pinched myself of having
52:03
been exposed to him and talking him into joining me when I
52:05
decided to make this journey. And you guys first met at True
52:09
Green, is that right? You were working together there.
52:12
At at Northwest. Prior.
52:14
Prior. Yeah, Yep.
52:16
OK, Yeah. He brought up his name very
52:18
affectionately multiple times today, so I can tell. 35 years
52:22
we worked together. Very, very good or complimentary
52:25
relationship? Yeah.
52:28
How about for our listeners? Any recommendations on books,
52:31
podcasts, courses? Any resources that have been
52:34
helpful to you? Well, I am an avid reader or any
52:40
more a listener. I've I've found that I can read
52:43
for pleasure better than I can read for learning.
52:46
So I am a, you know, Audible, I, I've listened to hundreds of
52:51
books on, on that. The one that I listened to or,
52:57
you know, it's been inspiring me the most.
52:59
In fact, even it's called Unreasonable hospitality.
53:03
It's a book about the restaurant trade.
53:06
And, and I'm trying to remember now really quickly that's it's
53:10
one of these greatest restaurants in New York of how
53:15
they aspire to surprise, you know, giving people something
53:19
they didn't expect. You know, you expect to have a
53:21
great meal at this restaurant, but they will exceed your
53:24
expectations. And I love that idea of one of
53:27
the things that I I've always said is people have basic
53:30
expectations when they buy something from you.
53:32
So anytime you can in surprise them, one of our key cultural
53:38
values is being heroic. I don't want to create a
53:42
situation where I need to be heroic, but by God, when the
53:45
opportunity creates itself, we will do whatever it takes to to
53:49
be heroic, whether it's, you know, doing something rather
53:52
than in the middle of the night or responding to an issue.
53:55
And one of the things I've in my career is like, hey, customer
53:58
calls, says, hey, Oh my gosh, I know you probably can't do this,
54:01
but I don't care what they say after that.
54:03
They've set me up to be a hero. I will do everything in my give.
54:06
Me one example. Give me a specific example of
54:09
when you guys were a hero. Well, one of our most heroic
54:13
things is when it snows or freezing rains or we get winter
54:17
weather, it, you know, it, it shuts down the city and how we
54:21
can be prepared to get out and about and take care of, of, of,
54:27
you know, those snow and get things cleared.
54:29
I'm, I'm constantly really proud that we've cleared the parking
54:33
lot for a business before the city has cleared the street out
54:37
in front of it. Irrigation in the summer when
54:41
something breaks, you know, we provide 24/7 coverage and if
54:45
somebody calls and there's a problem that we'll, we'll get
54:47
there with an hour. We have people on call all the
54:49
time. And one of my favorites is, oh,
54:52
I forgot to tell you, I've got my asset manager, my owner
54:55
coming in tomorrow. Can you take care of this
54:58
particular item? No problem, we'll be there.
55:03
I've just got one more question for you, Bob.
55:04
But before I ask it, I want to do 2 things.
55:07
First, everyone listening, I'm going to invite you to pause for
55:09
just a second. Go to your podcast app and just
55:13
leave us a review, follow us, subscribe all those things.
55:16
Make sure that you continue to get more of these great
55:18
interviews into your feed and they help other people find the
55:21
show too. Bob, I also want to let people
55:23
know the best way to either get in touch with you or your
55:26
company. What would that be?
55:28
Well, my e-mail address is my name Bob Grover.
55:31
It's Bob dot Grover at Pacscape, which is Pacific Landscape PAC
55:37
scape.com. Great.
55:41
We'll include links to that in the show notes.
55:44
Last question for you, Bob. You and I reconnect a year from
55:46
now and you are really excited you're celebrating something
55:50
big. What's that one big thing you're
55:51
celebrating one year from now? Well, it probably will be adding
55:56
a couple of more, partnering with a couple of more companies.
56:00
It was a big move when we partnered with the folks in, in,
56:05
in Texas, Dallas and Houston. We're talking to a couple of
56:09
groups in California. We're trying to, you know, we'd
56:12
love to be a, a Southwest, West Coast and Southwest regional and
56:15
Texas and and Portland and Seattle are far away, but
56:18
there's the Bay Area and Southern California that we've
56:21
got a couple opportunities. Love to tell you when we talk in
56:23
a year that, hey, we've secured a partner in Los Angeles and
56:27
we've secured a partner in the Bay Area.
56:30
Love it, and we'll check back in to see how that's coming along.
56:34
Bob Grover from Pacific Landscape Management, I want to
56:37
be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your
56:39
story with us today. I really appreciate it.
56:42
Well, thank you. I have the opportunity.
56:44
Appreciate the opportunity to share my story.
56:46
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
56:49
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
56:51
today.