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Technology and Innovation in Overlanding · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overlain Journal podcast. I'm your host,
0:08
Speaker 1: Matt Scott and I'm with Scott Brady, my illustrious co host.
0:12
Speaker 1: We do say illustrious co host for either, and it's
0:15
Speaker 1: actually me copying you.
0:18
Speaker 2: But you are the illustrious one.
0:20
Speaker 1: I am the illustrious one. You're just the one that
0:22
Speaker 1: has the actual real world experience. We both have that today.
0:27
Speaker 1: I think this is a fun one. We're talking about
0:30
Speaker 1: the future of overlanding, and this is going to be fun.
0:34
Speaker 1: This is meant to be a little lighthearted. We're looking
0:36
Speaker 1: at emerging technologies, We're going to be looking at existing
0:41
Speaker 1: technologies and where we think that they're going to go.
0:44
Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about these range extended evs
0:48
Speaker 1: and how that changes overlanding, and then also just a
0:51
Speaker 1: little geopolitics and some new travel roots that I think
0:57
Speaker 1: people should be looking at more.
1:00
Speaker 2: I think it's a great topic and I'm glad you
1:02
Speaker 2: brought it up as an idea because it's one of
1:04
Speaker 2: the questions I get asked more than anything else by
1:08
Speaker 2: people in the industry. What do you think the future
1:10
Speaker 2: of overlanding is? What are going to be the future
1:12
Speaker 2: products that people want to buy, and then from other
1:15
Speaker 2: travelers of like, what is the future of this thing
1:18
Speaker 2: that we love to do? And so I thought about
1:20
Speaker 2: it a little bit, and you and I spent some
1:22
Speaker 2: time jotting down notes, and I think we're ready to
1:24
Speaker 2: riff on the future.
1:26
Speaker 1: Of where should we start? I know where I'm going
1:28
Speaker 1: to start.
1:32
Speaker 2: And a special thanks to this week's sponsor, the Great
1:35
Speaker 2: American RV Show and Overland Expo. This is the one
1:40
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1:43
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2:03
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2:08
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2:14
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2:18
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2:22
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2:25
Speaker 2: the fourteenth. Don't just dream it, build it and get dirty.
2:32
Speaker 2: I want to start with these fridges. Okay, it's actually
2:34
Speaker 2: kind of what what was the impetus for the No,
2:38
Speaker 2: that's right, it did. It brought it out.
2:40
Speaker 1: Overland Journal is doing a fridge review right now. So
2:43
Speaker 1: we've been looking at fridges and there are now these
2:48
Speaker 1: fridges that have batteries in them. So Eco Flow makes one,
2:52
Speaker 1: and then Bluetty makes Fluetti makes one. And what's weird
2:56
Speaker 1: to me is I maybe even Goal zero as well.
2:59
Speaker 1: Goal zero i'd be I don't know if they have one,
3:02
Speaker 1: but anyway, so basically these batteries, these fridges have a
3:07
Speaker 1: battery built in and they'll run for like forty hours
3:10
Speaker 1: for like a thirty five or forty five liter fridge,
3:13
Speaker 1: which is a lot. I mean, you got to think
3:15
Speaker 1: for most people's travels, they're driving, they're arriving to camp,
3:20
Speaker 1: but you know, two three o'clock, they're staying for one
3:23
Speaker 1: or two days and you know they're moving on like
3:26
Speaker 1: that's part of I mean, there's people that like to
3:28
Speaker 1: stay put in one spot for a really long time,
3:33
Speaker 1: but I think that's how most people use them.
3:36
Speaker 2: I think, So, I mean, these kinds of fridges are
3:38
Speaker 2: really not for the person that has like a fully
3:40
Speaker 2: built overland vehicle or that they've got a camper. It's
3:44
Speaker 2: going to be for but it's going to be the
3:46
Speaker 2: majority of people. I think it's going to be eighty
3:48
Speaker 2: percent of travelers. They've got a Jeep Wrangler or they've
3:51
Speaker 2: got a Toyota four Runner and they want to go
3:53
Speaker 2: out on the weekend. The cool thing about these fridges,
3:58
Speaker 2: like even like the Blue Eddy one, you know, it
4:00
Speaker 2: has additional charging capability in it for your phones and
4:04
Speaker 2: other devices. You can hot swap these batteries, so when
4:10
Speaker 2: you're driving, it's charging off of your regular twelve olt socket,
4:14
Speaker 2: and then when you get into camp, it keeps running
4:16
Speaker 2: the fridge all night. You don't need to even modify
4:19
Speaker 2: your vehicle in the slightest. You get to take it
4:22
Speaker 2: out with all the weight that comes with it. You
4:25
Speaker 2: remove it from your car or if you get a
4:27
Speaker 2: new car. I mean, I don't know, we don't know
4:29
Speaker 2: anybody that changes cars frequently, But if we did doing
4:32
Speaker 2: that right now, if we did know someone who changed
4:35
Speaker 2: cars frequently, this might be a great fridge for them
4:38
Speaker 2: because they don't have to put in all the other stuff.
4:40
Speaker 1: I mean, like, okay, obviously we're talking about me. Jeez,
4:45
Speaker 1: I go through cars like it's impressive. It's impressive. It's impressive.
4:51
Speaker 1: But you know, you always want a fridge, Like I
4:54
Speaker 1: have to say, like I'm spoiled. When I go camping,
4:56
Speaker 1: I'll sleep on a cot, I'll sleep under the stars,
4:58
Speaker 1: But I kind of want to free I'm just used
5:01
Speaker 1: to it. It's how I travel. I don't want to
5:02
Speaker 1: deal with buying a cooler and all of that kind
5:04
Speaker 1: of stuff. But they're kind of like there's a lot
5:08
Speaker 1: of compromises to them, Like they're they're superior to you know,
5:13
Speaker 1: an ice chest or something because you don't have to
5:15
Speaker 1: have the ice, right, but then you have to have
5:17
Speaker 1: the energy for them. And let's look like ten years ago,
5:21
Speaker 1: not even ten years ago, man, five years ago, before
5:23
Speaker 1: lithium started to become attainable affordable all of these things.
5:28
Speaker 1: You know, you could only really run a fridge. They
5:32
Speaker 1: they tend to draw about one to two amps per
5:36
Speaker 1: hour on average over like a twenty four hour period
5:40
Speaker 1: for the type of fridge you're putting in.
5:42
Speaker 2: That makes sense, Yeah, I would say so, Yeah, between
5:44
Speaker 2: one and a half and three amps, yeah, an hour total,
5:48
Speaker 2: depending on the size of the fridge and how.
5:50
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, hot it is, you know, because you're you're
5:51
Speaker 1: going through all this data right now.
5:55
Speaker 2: You know.
5:55
Speaker 1: So in the in the age of AGM batteries, which
5:59
Speaker 1: was the you know, the best tech. You know, that
6:01
Speaker 1: meant your fridge ran overnight. You had one hundred amp
6:04
Speaker 1: hour battery if you were lucky, which means fifty fifty
6:08
Speaker 1: depth of discharge. Yeah, and so you have fifty amp
6:11
Speaker 1: hours to work with. You have two amp hours, which
6:15
Speaker 1: is pretty generous. That's a very efficient fridge that's not
6:18
Speaker 1: running in a hot environment. That's a day. Yeah. Okay,
6:22
Speaker 1: so right off the bat, these new fridges thirty to
6:28
Speaker 1: forty hours. We haven't tested one. It's kind of a
6:31
Speaker 1: new tech.
6:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got We've got the Ecoflow coming for the test,
6:35
Speaker 2: so that one we're going to evaluate. I would like
6:38
Speaker 2: to spend some time with that blue Eddy one just
6:41
Speaker 2: because it has quite a few extra ports. It's like
6:44
Speaker 2: you can charge your phone from it, charge your iPad,
6:47
Speaker 2: you can run a starlink off of it.
6:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have one hundred watt. Both of them have
6:51
Speaker 1: one hundredwat USB C which is enough to run a starlink.
6:54
Speaker 1: They have solar input correct so that's another thing that
6:58
Speaker 1: you don't have to spend money on. What what I'm
7:01
Speaker 1: really getting at with this fridge is that, you know,
7:06
Speaker 1: are these fridges going to actually end up being like
7:08
Speaker 1: the center of your vehicle if you think about it.
7:11
Speaker 1: I think that most people do a dual battery for
7:15
Speaker 1: a fridge to run their fridge, right, that's usually I
7:20
Speaker 1: don't know. Whenever I do like the calculations on building
7:23
Speaker 1: some kind of system with a red arc d C
7:27
Speaker 1: d C and a lithium battery, I'm I'm I'm running
7:30
Speaker 1: it for my fridge. Right, So to be able to
7:33
Speaker 1: have this thing that you can just throw into a
7:36
Speaker 1: factory built new Overlander, the canyon at four x AEV
7:43
Speaker 1: comes to mind, because I think those are really cool.
7:45
Speaker 1: Throw this in the back and just go. You can
7:47
Speaker 1: still have a solar panel. You can still sit there
7:49
Speaker 1: for days and you know, you know, have this, have
7:52
Speaker 1: this panel charge your phone, you can you can do everything.
7:55
Speaker 1: And I think that that technology has a lot of lakes.
8:01
Speaker 1: Battery energy density is going up. You know, we're on
8:04
Speaker 1: the verge of this transition from you know, I call
8:08
Speaker 1: them life po the yeah life PO four Yeah, sure,
8:14
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what the you know, the chemistry
8:16
Speaker 1: of the battery is is that's pretty much what you're buying.
8:19
Speaker 1: And we're moving towards this semi solid state, which like
8:23
Speaker 1: the electrolyte is like semi dry, and then eventually solid
8:27
Speaker 1: state is completely dry electrolyte and the energy density goes up.
8:31
Speaker 2: And then you look at these new silver batteries like
8:34
Speaker 2: from Samsung, like eighty percent charge in nine minutes, so crazy.
8:40
Speaker 1: I just think that as this progresses, it's going to
8:45
Speaker 1: be a wake up call for some some businesses in
8:47
Speaker 1: the space. You know, even looking at let's just say
8:51
Speaker 1: like a dometic, like if Demetic doesn't do this, I
8:57
Speaker 1: mean they're the perfect ones to do it because they're
8:58
Speaker 1: trying to market these things as like volt.
9:00
Speaker 2: Yeah coolers, and they've also already got battery technology that
9:04
Speaker 2: they use and that they've developed, so it'll be pretty
9:07
Speaker 2: easy for them to integrate it. You know. When I
9:10
Speaker 2: looked at it, you know, just for to balance out
9:13
Speaker 2: the perspective a little bit. The one downside that I
9:17
Speaker 2: found was that the battery takes space, so you lose
9:21
Speaker 2: a little bit of cooler capacity. But the contrary to
9:25
Speaker 2: that is people oftentimes bait by way too big of
9:28
Speaker 2: a fridge, so you really only need for two people
9:32
Speaker 2: about a thirty five liter foe.
9:33
Speaker 1: We're both down to like twenty five thirty five liter fridges.
9:36
Speaker 1: That's right.
9:36
Speaker 2: I did all of Africa with the twenty five and
9:39
Speaker 2: it was more than enough. You just kind of work
9:42
Speaker 2: food into it. But if you're a family of four,
9:44
Speaker 2: you up into that fifty five eighty liter range for sure,
9:49
Speaker 2: and depends on how much you want to stay in
9:51
Speaker 2: the back country or access to food and things like that.
9:54
Speaker 2: But so if you kind of, if you kind of
9:56
Speaker 2: get one of these fridges that is the size of
9:58
Speaker 2: a fifty five because the battery it ends up being
10:01
Speaker 2: a forty five. I don't see that as a downside.
10:03
Speaker 2: I see that as being an advantage. Well, this has
10:06
Speaker 2: to go something that's right exactly.
10:09
Speaker 1: You know, in some vehicles they're easy to hide and
10:12
Speaker 1: kind of put in places. Again, I just think that
10:14
Speaker 1: it's it's just going to be so easy for people
10:18
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't and I wouldn't want to be in
10:20
Speaker 1: the dual battery business looking at this.
10:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless they and I think what will happen Since
10:27
Speaker 2: we're talking about the future of overlanding. You're going to
10:29
Speaker 2: end up with you know, fully integrated expedition vehicles where
10:34
Speaker 2: you know, it's got the go fast, it's got all
10:36
Speaker 2: of the systems installed. You know, they've got you know,
10:39
Speaker 2: big compressors, and they've got you know, uh induction cooking,
10:44
Speaker 2: and they've got they've got air conditioning, and they've got
10:46
Speaker 2: heaters and or like in my scout, everything runs off
10:50
Speaker 2: of electrical now. So I have built a really big,
10:53
Speaker 2: yeah and complex electrical system to support all of that.
10:57
Speaker 2: But that's not most travelers. Most travelers are going to
10:59
Speaker 2: be like we said, and they're gonna be in their
11:02
Speaker 2: Lexus g X, and this kind of a fridge is
11:06
Speaker 2: going to solve a lot of problems for them. So
11:07
Speaker 2: it's I agree with you. It's a great new technology.
11:10
Speaker 2: I think it's super cool. I think that these dual
11:14
Speaker 2: batteries are gonna they're gonna end up being a little
11:16
Speaker 2: bit more specialized. I also think that another you know,
11:20
Speaker 2: i'll say game changer for the future is the continued
11:24
Speaker 2: evolution of these you know, solar generators, the lithium power packs.
11:30
Speaker 2: You know we were talking, you know, a lot of
11:33
Speaker 2: this came out from you know me stuck at home
11:37
Speaker 2: planning trips, and I'm planning like the Silk Road thing
11:39
Speaker 2: right now to kind of keep myself busy, and my
11:44
Speaker 2: my wife Laura kept saying, I just want something simple.
11:48
Speaker 2: You know, our earth roamer is pretty complex. It's the
11:50
Speaker 2: earthwromer portion is very reliable, the forward portion a little
11:54
Speaker 2: less so. Yeah, but in our.
12:00
Speaker 1: Last vehicles that we've built, the wiring just gets complex.
12:05
Speaker 1: You know. There's there's there's proper ways to do this stuff,
12:09
Speaker 1: and it just takes up a lot of space, you know,
12:11
Speaker 1: I think of I think like the Australians are the worst.
12:15
Speaker 1: Like they will put a canopy on the back of
12:17
Speaker 1: their truck to like build an electrical system for an
12:21
Speaker 1: espresso machine, and then they have like room for a
12:23
Speaker 1: ham sandwich in the back, that's right, and I don't.
12:27
Speaker 2: And they'll even have like a little toaster back there.
12:29
Speaker 2: It's like some interesting stuff. Yeah, the road buddy of it,
12:35
Speaker 2: nuclettle pies, which no judgment against that, those are actually
12:40
Speaker 2: pretty good. That's actually pretty fun. But I still for
12:45
Speaker 2: me it would be a burrito for sure. But you're right,
12:47
Speaker 2: I see some very complex battery systems yea, in these trays.
12:52
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, guilty, Like I do this stuff in
12:54
Speaker 1: my truck too, like, but I'm wondering. I'm like, okay,
12:58
Speaker 1: so so we're looking at like this just using it
13:00
Speaker 1: as the idea, this silk row trip. So I would
13:05
Speaker 1: have to buy a lithium batter, I'd have to buy
13:07
Speaker 1: a you know, I would probably do a red arc
13:10
Speaker 1: DC DC. I bought that for my Grenadier. The Alpha
13:13
Speaker 1: one works really well, integrate solar as well backfeed charges.
13:17
Speaker 1: You know, like these systems are still cool and I
13:19
Speaker 1: understand where they are. But I could also have a
13:22
Speaker 1: completely stocked vehicle. And what I have learned is the
13:26
Speaker 1: moment you start touching the vehicle, the mechanics of the vehicle,
13:30
Speaker 1: the electrics of the vehicle, you start having problems. Yeah,
13:32
Speaker 1: for sure. You know, I'm not saying all factory engineers
13:36
Speaker 1: are great, but generally they're pretty sort of compared to
13:41
Speaker 1: Matt in his garage with electrical tape and you know,
13:44
Speaker 1: sure that kind of thing figuring out. But you can
13:48
Speaker 1: just run these lithium power packs now because they're cheaper.
13:51
Speaker 1: Like we we kind of loosely ran the sums. You know,
13:55
Speaker 1: it was like seven ninety nine for like a lithium
13:59
Speaker 1: power pack like one hundred amp hours.
14:01
Speaker 2: Uh well, the ones that I saw that had inverters
14:04
Speaker 2: and everything in them, they run around fourteen hundred bucks.
14:07
Speaker 2: But that's all that's all in. You got one hundred
14:09
Speaker 2: amp hours, you've got an inverter, you've got solar charge controller,
14:15
Speaker 2: it's got everything into one unit.
14:18
Speaker 1: So like I like, so I like Red Arc stuff,
14:21
Speaker 1: So red Ark one hundred and fifty ant battery be
14:24
Speaker 1: the closest. That's I think that those are either fifteen
14:28
Speaker 1: ninety nine or sixteen ninety nine. You would have an
14:31
Speaker 1: inverter of your choice, and these were actually like bigger inverters,
14:34
Speaker 1: like the Red Arc inverters are like one thousand dollars
14:37
Speaker 1: for like a two thousand plus sure watt inverter. Then
14:41
Speaker 1: you have your solar controller, then you have your battery,
14:43
Speaker 1: like all of this stuff, but it's just in one
14:45
Speaker 1: and wherever you are in the world, Like like China
14:49
Speaker 1: has been very good with exporting their stuff. Yeah, like
14:52
Speaker 1: you know, you're probably going to be able to get
14:54
Speaker 1: one to replace it if you if you had a
14:57
Speaker 1: failure with it.
14:58
Speaker 2: And I've really not the only issue that I had
15:00
Speaker 2: was super early on some of the Goal zero stuff
15:04
Speaker 2: that wanted to explode in our office.
15:06
Speaker 1: The one did it shot the little adult it like literally,
15:11
Speaker 1: well I hit the wall or I mean it was, yes, yes,
15:15
Speaker 1: I mean it was.
15:15
Speaker 2: It literally bulged so far years ago that it fired
15:20
Speaker 2: a bolt into the wall. And those were still like
15:23
Speaker 2: some kind of lead acid gel type. It could be,
15:27
Speaker 2: it could be, but the stuff right now, like I've
15:29
Speaker 2: been using the newer Goal zero stuff without a problem,
15:34
Speaker 2: and I've been using this eco flow stuff without a problem.
15:38
Speaker 2: Because we're trying to test this stuff, like these are
15:40
Speaker 2: things that you and I recognize are emerging technologies and
15:44
Speaker 2: we want to stress test these things to see if
15:47
Speaker 2: they're even worth recommending. And I'm really impressed. I mean
15:51
Speaker 2: so far, I'm really impressed. Even when I did the
15:54
Speaker 2: East coast of Africa. To your point, I wanted a
15:57
Speaker 2: stock vehicle and I didn't want to modify the Grenadier,
16:01
Speaker 2: so I took a stock car, put a rough rack
16:04
Speaker 2: on it. I got a little lithium battery pack that
16:07
Speaker 2: could run the fridge overnight while the car wasn't running,
16:11
Speaker 2: and that was the full extent of and I could
16:14
Speaker 2: use that lithium power pack to also jump start the
16:17
Speaker 2: car if I needed to, and it didn't have the
16:20
Speaker 2: dual battery system from Ineos, it was that's all I
16:23
Speaker 2: had was that little lithium either little lithium power pack.
16:27
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just I think what I'm generally getting
16:32
Speaker 1: at is that this stuff is just simpler, so simple
16:35
Speaker 1: you throw it in the back. I think the common
16:38
Speaker 1: complaint I have with all of these battery systems is
16:41
Speaker 1: none of them are made to be properly secured or
16:44
Speaker 1: tied down, and you end up with a very heavy
16:48
Speaker 1: projectile when you're off road. There's really no good way
16:53
Speaker 1: to tie them down.
16:54
Speaker 2: The only one that I have found that has really
16:56
Speaker 2: good tie downs is the Goal zero. Yeah, like where
16:59
Speaker 2: they have these heavy duty handles. The other ones they
17:04
Speaker 2: tend to be tall and narrow, so it's difficult to
17:07
Speaker 2: get unless you're putting in four straps to triangulate them. Well,
17:12
Speaker 2: so they don't they don't mount that well. It'd be
17:14
Speaker 2: nice to see the industry start to like figure out
17:17
Speaker 2: the top two or three units that are great, and
17:19
Speaker 2: then somebody builds little trays for them.
17:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not a bad idea, you know, to not
17:27
Speaker 1: I don't want to necessarily poo poo lithium batteries and
17:31
Speaker 1: DC DC chargers because they have a they definitely have
17:34
Speaker 1: a place if you if you have a camper, if
17:36
Speaker 1: you need it. Yeah, if you're running air conditioning or
17:39
Speaker 1: major AC loads or or that kind of even electric heat.
17:44
Speaker 1: Now a lot of people are doing them. You know,
17:46
Speaker 1: that's that's sly thing. But we're starting to look at
17:49
Speaker 1: these these they're calling them solid state, they're really semi
17:53
Speaker 1: solid state batteries. Energy is a company that has just
17:56
Speaker 1: like blown my mind lately. Like I always thought of
18:00
Speaker 1: them until like a year or two ago of like
18:02
Speaker 1: kind of cheap Amazon stuff. But they're actually the ones
18:05
Speaker 1: that are innovating in this space right now. They have
18:09
Speaker 1: some really cool DC DC chargers. I have not gotten
18:12
Speaker 1: into some paid for it. Yeah, Like I have one
18:15
Speaker 1: hundred amp hour lithium battery from them. That is I
18:18
Speaker 1: was able to hide behind my little dwarfridge and the grenadier.
18:21
Speaker 1: I mean it's like six or seven inches by six
18:25
Speaker 1: or seven inches by four inches and it's heated right
18:29
Speaker 1: you know this. But they're new range of batteries. They
18:34
Speaker 1: actually like they're Pro series or something. They're like one
18:37
Speaker 1: twenty and two forty amp hours, they're heated, and they
18:40
Speaker 1: actually have tie downs like like like like mounting points
18:45
Speaker 1: for bracketry that they include, so you can just quite
18:48
Speaker 1: easily secure the battery cool. And that's something that like,
18:52
Speaker 1: these these batteries don't conform to a core size anymore.
18:55
Speaker 1: It's not the Group thirty four optimized battery cage that
18:59
Speaker 1: you put in the back of your truck anymore. They're
19:02
Speaker 1: all different sizes, And I don't know why more companies
19:05
Speaker 1: aren't creating a provision for tie down. Sure, the red
19:10
Speaker 1: arch battery I guess does have it, but I think
19:12
Speaker 1: they have like an H four and H six case
19:15
Speaker 1: that has the little angular piece at the bottom so
19:20
Speaker 1: you can secure it. Sure, I don't know. It's interesting.
19:23
Speaker 1: I mean, you can make these vehicles a lot simpler
19:27
Speaker 1: and I believe more reliable.
19:29
Speaker 2: Through the use of technology, and that translates directly to
19:33
Speaker 2: an improved comfort. And in my mind, like building out
19:37
Speaker 2: the scout, I want no propane. I don't want to
19:41
Speaker 2: have to have an extra source for heat or air
19:44
Speaker 2: conditioning or anything else like that. But because of these
19:47
Speaker 2: new batteries are so small, I can fit I think
19:51
Speaker 2: three of the ones that you just described in the
19:54
Speaker 2: backs under the back seat of the quartermaster instead of
19:57
Speaker 2: the one hundred ampower that's in there right now, just
19:59
Speaker 2: as standard a GM, so I can get up to
20:02
Speaker 2: about three hundred amp hours there. I've already got about
20:06
Speaker 2: two hundred and forty amp hours in the camper. I
20:09
Speaker 2: can run the heater all night long. Yeah, So then
20:12
Speaker 2: the dip pump, right because you're using that eco flow.
20:14
Speaker 2: I use an eco flow heat pump. It's an air
20:17
Speaker 2: conditioner when it's hot out, and it's a heater when
20:19
Speaker 2: it's cold out. And then I have no more propane
20:24
Speaker 2: or any other you know, liquid fuels to cook. I
20:28
Speaker 2: just cook with a with an induction cook top and
20:32
Speaker 2: it all works.
20:33
Speaker 1: Oh, it works great. It's crazy to see the progression
20:36
Speaker 1: because if you if you think of, for example, where
20:39
Speaker 1: I am with my camper, I have to run the
20:43
Speaker 1: air conditioning. I have twelve hundred amp hours with them.
20:46
Speaker 1: I have a three thousand watdenverter like I have. I'm
20:50
Speaker 1: not saying it's old school, but it's starting to feel
20:52
Speaker 1: a little old school. It's obviously a larger space, so
20:55
Speaker 1: it has a different requirement.
20:56
Speaker 2: But that's when there's plugs and you know, yeah, people
20:59
Speaker 2: are playing, but you know, people are plugging in hair
21:02
Speaker 2: dryers and like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's different.
21:04
Speaker 1: So you can still do that with like I'm going
21:06
Speaker 1: to say, a traditional system, but I don't know if
21:11
Speaker 1: that is the best option today. And I'm quite certain
21:16
Speaker 1: that in a year or two, I don't think that
21:20
Speaker 1: like the casual Overlander even needs to look at a
21:24
Speaker 1: lot of these things. Yeah, it's going to all be integrated. Well,
21:26
Speaker 1: and we're talking about like Starlink. I mean, really, you
21:29
Speaker 1: want to charge your phone, you want to charge your lights.
21:31
Speaker 1: Led lights are half the time they have their own batteries. Sure, yeah,
21:35
Speaker 1: check this thing out.
21:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this just got launched by DeVos and it's
21:40
Speaker 2: a lithium ion. It's a ten thousand million hour battery
21:45
Speaker 2: that plugs right into the bottom of the Starlink Mini.
21:50
Speaker 2: It just fits right into the bottom of it, and
21:52
Speaker 2: it's got its own little stand for the you could
21:55
Speaker 2: see it if those are watching non YouTube, but it's
21:57
Speaker 2: got its own little stand. And then you can also
22:00
Speaker 2: charge it and charge your phone USBC. So it's got
22:03
Speaker 2: two USBC ports on it, so you can charge your
22:08
Speaker 2: phone or you know what, something else if you needed
22:11
Speaker 2: it and charge it using USBC, so just like ten hours.
22:15
Speaker 1: These like three things that we've talked about, the fridge,
22:19
Speaker 1: the Starlink batteries. Well, let's actually talk a little about
22:23
Speaker 1: the Starlin battery. It's inevitable that Starlink has a mini
22:25
Speaker 1: with a built in battery, yeah, or it's an accessory
22:28
Speaker 1: at least from or an accessory or something. I mean,
22:30
Speaker 1: if you think about it, practically, they have spent a
22:34
Speaker 1: huge amount of money getting these satellites up there, and
22:37
Speaker 1: they need subscription revenue. Sure, well currently to run a
22:42
Speaker 1: you know, you do have these batteries and stuff which
22:44
Speaker 1: are like an aftermarket solution. But if they had something
22:47
Speaker 1: in factory, I mean every contractor in the world's going
22:52
Speaker 1: to have one. I mean it's fifty bucks for unlimited. Yeah,
22:55
Speaker 1: like it's unlimited now. It used to be fifty bucks
22:58
Speaker 1: for like fifty or forty gig. Now it's like, I
23:01
Speaker 1: think it slows down a little bit, Like why wouldn't
23:05
Speaker 1: you have one?
23:06
Speaker 2: Imagine being the cell phone providers right now? Yeah, I
23:12
Speaker 2: mean because it's not only Starlink now there's Blue Origin
23:15
Speaker 2: every people are putting up constellations of satellites. You're no
23:19
Speaker 2: longer going to need to have a cell phone provider.
23:24
Speaker 2: You're just going to like think about it. If you
23:26
Speaker 2: didn't have let's say you pulled the SIM out of
23:29
Speaker 2: your phone and you're traveling around with a starlink or
23:32
Speaker 2: the phone itself has starlink on it, you don't need
23:36
Speaker 2: to have like this Verizon you know coverage anymore. It's
23:42
Speaker 2: now works everywhere. We switched our phone plan for this reason.
23:48
Speaker 2: We're generally at home, or we're out in the roamer,
23:51
Speaker 2: or we're out in the grenadier. All of those vehicles
23:54
Speaker 2: have starlink. You know, it's fifty dollars a month. I mean,
23:59
Speaker 2: this is like stupid, But we got like this mint
24:01
Speaker 2: mobile thing it's fifteen bucks a month unlimited. So I
24:04
Speaker 2: went and got two Starlink subscriptions and a cell phone
24:07
Speaker 2: bill for two people or a plan for two people,
24:10
Speaker 2: and it's cheaper than my Verizon was.
24:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, like yeah, yeah. The satellite internet thing is has
24:18
Speaker 1: obviously revolutionized a lot in this space. It's allowed you know,
24:21
Speaker 1: I think particularly for exhibition vehicles and ban life. You know,
24:25
Speaker 1: you can you can properly work from anywhere.
24:27
Speaker 2: Now, Oh my gosh, it's insane.
24:29
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna and you said, like blue Origin,
24:31
Speaker 1: this is great news for everybody except desk box and
24:34
Speaker 1: dictators because they won't have a well.
24:38
Speaker 2: But that's a really hold on. But that's a really
24:40
Speaker 2: good point though, Matt, because when we were traveling just
24:43
Speaker 2: recently with the Milestones expedition down West Africa, we actually
24:48
Speaker 2: encountered several countries where starlink was geo fenced, so like
24:53
Speaker 2: it did not work at all in Togo, it did
24:55
Speaker 2: not work at all, in Angola, it did not work
24:59
Speaker 2: at all in Namibia. Now Namibia is imminent that it
25:03
Speaker 2: will be working, but I know.
25:05
Speaker 1: Like South Africa doesn't work because they have some it did.
25:09
Speaker 2: It did work in South Africa because they're so close
25:11
Speaker 2: to an agreement with musk so and it's actually going
25:15
Speaker 2: to be really neat. I think starlinking is going to
25:19
Speaker 2: be provided to two thousand remote schools.
25:22
Speaker 1: Oh that's kind of fun.
25:23
Speaker 2: And like all the equipment, all the stuff coveraged and
25:27
Speaker 2: covered and then they get to sell starlinks in in.
25:30
Speaker 1: South I mean equal access to information, yeah is what
25:34
Speaker 1: this is like, you know, and.
25:36
Speaker 2: A lot of governments want to control that. Yeah, I
25:39
Speaker 2: mean we've seen that.
25:39
Speaker 1: But also what a projection of American soft power Man,
25:44
Speaker 1: We're back baby. Yeah. Information courtesy of America. Yeah, you know.
25:51
Speaker 1: But but this, this is also something that we were
25:53
Speaker 1: talking about, is just like travel and how travel is
25:55
Speaker 1: going to change. We're talking about this like the Silk
25:59
Speaker 1: Road thing. You know, you're talking about Africa, and there's
26:02
Speaker 1: a lot of countries that are I feel like we're
26:04
Speaker 1: coming into a period of stability or total war. I
26:08
Speaker 1: don't know, it could go either way, you know. But
26:12
Speaker 1: like you know, I saw on your list, like E
26:15
Speaker 1: visas is.
26:16
Speaker 2: Like it's so easy.
26:18
Speaker 1: I mean when you did that Silk Road with Charlie
26:21
Speaker 1: back in the day, the hoops that you had to
26:25
Speaker 1: jump through to get to visa. I think. I think
26:29
Speaker 1: for like Kyrgyzstan, I have to like apply for a visa,
26:34
Speaker 1: but everything else is like visa on arrival or like
26:37
Speaker 1: e visas for Americans, you know, not everybody has an
26:40
Speaker 1: American passport EU passport, you know.
26:45
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27:46
Speaker 3: Thanks again, Niddo, It's so much easier. I mean I
27:51
Speaker 3: had to have a visa for most of those countries.
27:54
Speaker 3: I mean I had to have a minder going through Turkmenistan,
27:57
Speaker 3: like in the car with us. So it was really
28:00
Speaker 3: it was definitely a different time. And some of these
28:02
Speaker 3: border posts were little shacks. Now, the people were incredible,
28:06
Speaker 3: the border guards were incredible, but they were little shacks.
28:11
Speaker 3: And when I looked at the photos from Richard Nashley,
28:14
Speaker 3: like these are modern high efficiency border crossings, and like
28:20
Speaker 3: the Silk Road is coming back, like, not only like
28:23
Speaker 3: as a traveler, but for commerce, Like it is opening.
28:27
Speaker 1: Up all what's the Belton Road initiative or something that
28:33
Speaker 1: China's doing, it's all going through that area. Yeah. Well
28:35
Speaker 1: we were kind of joking about that.
28:37
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, if one of these power packs broke, yeah,
28:41
Speaker 2: you can find it on me. Yeah, it's gonna be
28:43
Speaker 2: there the next stop, the train stop, the train stop,
28:45
Speaker 2: the train.
28:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that there's areas of the world. I mean,
28:52
Speaker 1: I mean, dare I say, like maybe Venezuela is going
28:55
Speaker 1: to be a viable option for overlanders in a year
28:57
Speaker 1: or two.
28:58
Speaker 2: And it's beautiful down there. Anybody who's ever I remember
29:01
Speaker 2: Chris Collard telling me about his travels to Venezuela and
29:04
Speaker 2: it was just awesome. So I would love to go
29:08
Speaker 2: see that country. The last time I was in that
29:11
Speaker 2: region and I wanted to go, I couldn't get a
29:13
Speaker 2: visa because well, and there was I'm a veteran, so.
29:16
Speaker 1: There was so much instability being caused in the region
29:22
Speaker 1: by Venezuela and kind of this diaspora of people that
29:26
Speaker 1: were not being treated so nicely by their government, and
29:30
Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting that. I kind of thought that
29:36
Speaker 1: Venezuela was gonna like when they went and grabbed Maduro,
29:39
Speaker 1: I was like, what, But it seems like they're figuring
29:43
Speaker 1: their stuff out.
29:44
Speaker 2: I mean, I think everybody was really grateful. I think
29:47
Speaker 2: most of the population was really grateful. They have reasons
29:50
Speaker 2: to celebrate instead of kill each other now because there's
29:53
Speaker 2: a potential, there's a future, you know, and that that
29:57
Speaker 2: country has a lot of wealth yea, and natural resources
30:01
Speaker 2: of course, but anyway, and the apps are going to
30:04
Speaker 2: continue to improve. I mean, look at on X how
30:07
Speaker 2: much it's improved in the last ten years. Gaya Like,
30:10
Speaker 2: these tools are super useful, They're very reliable. They make
30:15
Speaker 2: it so much easier for me to travel. Now, the
30:18
Speaker 2: borders are going to keep getting more tech more advanced,
30:23
Speaker 2: which means that there's going to be less corruption, but
30:25
Speaker 2: it's also going to be harder to kind of get
30:28
Speaker 2: through a problem, like if you didn't plan yourself properly,
30:31
Speaker 2: Like if you're in West Africa and you made a
30:33
Speaker 2: mistake or you forgot your visa or whatever, you're gonna
30:36
Speaker 2: be able to eventually talk to some dude that's going
30:38
Speaker 2: to get it fixed for you. Yeah, that's going to
30:40
Speaker 2: all go away, and we're already seeing that really tightened
30:43
Speaker 2: down in the borders, which I think is a positive thing,
30:47
Speaker 2: but it also brings up some other concerns. So as
30:50
Speaker 2: technology becomes more prolific, as AI becomes more prolific, as
30:57
Speaker 2: bad actors are able to more easily scrub the and
31:00
Speaker 2: social media, I think it's going to be really important
31:03
Speaker 2: for travelers to delay their posting. So I think that
31:06
Speaker 2: I think that real time posting of on the Silk
31:09
Speaker 2: Road is a bad idea. There's still bad actors in
31:12
Speaker 2: the area. You still have to go along the border
31:15
Speaker 2: of Afghanistan. There's still kidnapping and ransom problems in West Africa.
31:20
Speaker 2: So you need to be mindful of the fact that
31:23
Speaker 2: just because everything has gotten so much easier for you
31:26
Speaker 2: with communication, it's gotten easier for everybody else. So we
31:31
Speaker 2: really want to be mindful when we're in an area
31:34
Speaker 2: that has an adjusted threat level that we want to
31:37
Speaker 2: be delaying our posts by at least the number of
31:42
Speaker 2: days of the threat level. So if you're in a
31:45
Speaker 2: country that has a threat level of one, you probably
31:47
Speaker 2: want to delay it by a day. And that's a
31:50
Speaker 2: lot of times that's just to keep people from harassing you,
31:53
Speaker 2: like even fans or whatever. But if you're in a
31:56
Speaker 2: level three country, you really wanted to be delaying your
31:59
Speaker 2: post by three days. Of course, a level four four days,
32:03
Speaker 2: so you just really want to be mind. Really, I've
32:05
Speaker 2: never heard a formula for that. Yeah, that's part of this. Yeah,
32:11
Speaker 2: that's that's the next book.
32:13
Speaker 1: That's the next book. Yeah.
32:16
Speaker 2: So I think that there's a way to be able
32:18
Speaker 2: to keep yourself out of trouble with that. And then
32:23
Speaker 2: the access to groups now between WhatsApp groups which are
32:28
Speaker 2: so they're so good, and this information is happening more
32:32
Speaker 2: and more quickly, and it's going to eventually be easier
32:36
Speaker 2: to aggregate it. Eventually you're going to be able to
32:38
Speaker 2: ask chat GPT what's the current border situation at the
32:42
Speaker 2: DRC coming in from Angola, and chat GPT is going
32:47
Speaker 2: to know that answer or very close to it. So
32:52
Speaker 2: it's getting an easier and easier to be able to
32:54
Speaker 2: solve these problems.
32:57
Speaker 1: I've been watching I think you have two long Way
33:01
Speaker 1: Round and then it did and long Way Down again,
33:03
Speaker 1: and that was so hugely sentimental for me because I
33:06
Speaker 1: think long Way Round came out when I was like
33:09
Speaker 1: like three or fifteen, and you know, it was like
33:14
Speaker 1: all I wanted was a BMWGS and and those guys
33:18
Speaker 1: are a huge, huge inspiration. Right. What I'm kind of,
33:25
Speaker 1: I guess trying to get at is I'm watching how
33:28
Speaker 1: they have to go through the borders.
33:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane.
33:31
Speaker 1: And all the planning and like luckily they were based
33:34
Speaker 1: in London because they had all the you know, all
33:36
Speaker 1: the embassies there and how hard it was to get
33:38
Speaker 1: visa for this and visa for this and visa for that,
33:41
Speaker 1: and all of the struggles with it, and it's just
33:43
Speaker 1: gotten so much easier, so much easier.
33:45
Speaker 2: Even Russia, an American get can get multi year multi
33:49
Speaker 2: entryview year.
33:50
Speaker 1: Multi entry visa issues by default. According to the Russian
33:55
Speaker 1: Consolo website for Washington.
33:56
Speaker 2: DC, It's crazy, It's crazy, and Russia's worth visiting. I
34:01
Speaker 2: mean it like separate the government from the people and
34:04
Speaker 2: the country. Russia is cool, like Saint Petersburg is super cool.
34:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I want to go. Yeah, I mean hopefully
34:10
Speaker 1: the whole Ukraine thing is getting close to Yeah, it's
34:15
Speaker 1: getting ending because there's a lot of people that just
34:17
Speaker 1: on moral grounds won't go to Russia. But if you're
34:20
Speaker 1: doing the Silk Road. Well, I guess now you can
34:22
Speaker 1: go through China. Yes, it's going to cost money, but
34:26
Speaker 1: you can drive without a guide.
34:27
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, it's awesome.
34:29
Speaker 1: You sent me the Instagram thing, but it sounds like
34:32
Speaker 1: you have to work with an approved tour agency. They
34:35
Speaker 1: meet you at the border, they facilitate the driver's license
34:38
Speaker 1: and registration, get you into the country, get you to
34:42
Speaker 1: the first police checkpoint, and then you're like good for
34:44
Speaker 1: three months, off you go, which is like crazy because
34:47
Speaker 1: so rad every time I've been to China, I'm I'm
34:50
Speaker 1: always like blown away. There's so much that we just
34:56
Speaker 1: don't know about. And the same would apply for Russia.
34:58
Speaker 1: I mean, growing up me, I guess in the thawing
35:04
Speaker 1: of the Cold War you kind of learning about this
35:06
Speaker 1: engine as a kid while you're in the Cold War.
35:10
Speaker 1: We just don't know a lot about it. There's there's
35:12
Speaker 1: so much, there's so much history there. It's an ancient
35:17
Speaker 1: I mean you think about the first traveler, Marco Polo.
35:22
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there were people before him, but the
35:24
Speaker 1: first famous traveler was Marco Polo. Where did Marco Polo
35:27
Speaker 1: travel the Silk Road? So this is ancient stuff. It's
35:32
Speaker 1: and and to come across Crusaders castles and like where
35:36
Speaker 1: they's still the castle walls still have the ballisterias in
35:39
Speaker 1: them for the arrows to come out.
35:41
Speaker 2: I mean it's awesome. It's just awesome. Yeah, you're gonna
35:45
Speaker 2: love it. You're going to absolutely love it.
35:47
Speaker 1: Right now, it's just another trip mats planning. Do we
35:49
Speaker 1: want to talk about vehicles? Yeah, yeah, I think.
35:52
Speaker 2: We're in the Golden Age in a lot of ways.
35:54
Speaker 1: Boy, I I think so as well. You know, vehicles
36:00
Speaker 1: are more and more complicated than ever. But good technology
36:05
Speaker 1: is good, right, Bad technology is bad. Like there's there's
36:10
Speaker 1: there's vehicles that have simple technology that is not good
36:16
Speaker 1: and that's the worst. There are vehicles that have a
36:19
Speaker 1: lot of technology that's good and it's not a problem.
36:21
Speaker 1: You know, these we're gonna it seems like everybody is
36:26
Speaker 1: shifting to the concept of the range extended EV or
36:32
Speaker 1: a plug in or a plug in or something. On
36:36
Speaker 1: one hand, I'm just kind of the same thing, Yeah, yeah,
36:42
Speaker 1: kind of.
36:43
Speaker 2: I mean, range extended EV doesn't have the range. It's
36:46
Speaker 2: an electric Like the Scout is the one that I'm
36:50
Speaker 2: super excited for because it's an electric car. The electric
36:53
Speaker 2: vehicle platform is just better. It's a more efficient way
36:57
Speaker 2: to transfer energy. It's more reliable, simpler, faster, higher technology,
37:03
Speaker 2: but simpler, right. I mean you think of I always
37:06
Speaker 2: tell people, think of every needle bearing that's in your engine. Yeah,
37:10
Speaker 2: like like there's there's like hundreds of thousands of components
37:14
Speaker 2: that are in your car that have to work, and
37:17
Speaker 2: the one cent one has to fail. Yeah, well when
37:20
Speaker 2: there's one hundred thousand versus ten thousand, these are made
37:24
Speaker 2: up numbers, arbitrary numbers, ary numbers.
37:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's it's just interesting, like the Scout thing,
37:30
Speaker 1: you know, you'll be able to like the Rivian. I
37:33
Speaker 1: mean it's kind of like the Scouts. Kind of seems
37:34
Speaker 1: like it's gonna end up being a Rivian with a.
37:37
Speaker 2: Range extender range ex center, and I think it'll have
37:40
Speaker 2: some bigger tires. It's going to have smaller wheels, which
37:43
Speaker 2: is also super important. But the thing that I love
37:46
Speaker 2: about the range Extenter you come into camp and the
37:49
Speaker 2: thing just runs all night. You wake up in the
37:51
Speaker 2: morning and it's got like nearly a full battery.
37:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so have you'll have a vehicle, I mean, you
37:57
Speaker 1: will not have to have a dual battery because you
37:59
Speaker 1: have you know, yeah, one hundred and twenty kilo lots
38:04
Speaker 1: of energy. Yeah, at least, yeah, at least for these
38:08
Speaker 1: big trucks. You know, the fridge that's running overnight and
38:11
Speaker 1: the starlink, it's not even a dense rounding it. I mean,
38:14
Speaker 1: you're talking about running heat and air conditioning for several days.
38:19
Speaker 1: And I just again, I think of this simplicity of
38:22
Speaker 1: the future of overlanding. We're not there yet, but like
38:25
Speaker 1: this scout thing, you know, like the seats fold flat.
38:30
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't even you don't even need like
38:32
Speaker 1: a platform. You just throw a mattress in the back
38:36
Speaker 1: of it.
38:36
Speaker 2: And could you imagine, I mean you would It didn't matter.
38:39
Speaker 2: It wouldn't matter how hot it is outside. You could
38:42
Speaker 2: stay cool on the inside. Wouldn't matter how cold it
38:44
Speaker 2: was outside because you could stay warm on the inside.
38:46
Speaker 2: And the range extender will make sure that that all works.
38:49
Speaker 2: It'll just be humming along under the back of the car. Yeah,
38:52
Speaker 2: I mean I I.
38:58
Speaker 1: We talk about getting families out, and we talk about
39:00
Speaker 1: getting couples out overlanding. We talk about you just getting
39:04
Speaker 1: more people out of all walks of life, and you know,
39:09
Speaker 1: being able to say like, oh, it's got air conditioning.
39:12
Speaker 1: I can just you know, I'm going to go to
39:14
Speaker 1: the festival, I'm going to go to wherever and I can.
39:17
Speaker 1: It's climate controlled and it's a great car to drive
39:20
Speaker 1: every day. Yeah.
39:21
Speaker 2: I mean, this technology is going to continue to improve,
39:27
Speaker 2: and it's just a moment in time until electric vehicles
39:31
Speaker 2: are not only better vehicles in general, but they're also
39:34
Speaker 2: better overland vehicles. It's just going to be it's going
39:38
Speaker 2: to be a matter of time, you know, before that happens.
39:41
Speaker 2: And then the flip side of that is people are
39:45
Speaker 2: also going old school. People are also going to feel that, Yeah,
39:49
Speaker 2: like you want to talk about your new old vehicle.
39:52
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that later.
39:53
Speaker 1: But I just think that, you know, as much as
39:56
Speaker 1: we talk with the technology, and I love it. I've
39:58
Speaker 1: said this before, like it's so important to turn the
40:01
Speaker 1: starlink off. Yeah, because now you are like you, you're
40:05
Speaker 1: the access to you as a person is now seamless. Yeah,
40:10
Speaker 1: and that's not always a good thing.
40:13
Speaker 2: You know.
40:13
Speaker 1: We let's not forget why we do this. We do
40:18
Speaker 1: this well, we do this all for ourselves, right, Like
40:22
Speaker 1: if you're just I don't know, like I'm not like
40:28
Speaker 1: trying to pontificate. But if you just connect it all
40:30
Speaker 1: the time and you don't take the you don't shut
40:33
Speaker 1: the starlink off to look at the beautiful sunset over
40:38
Speaker 1: monument value or value the gods or something that you
40:40
Speaker 1: just spent six hours driving to. Like there's something wrong.
40:43
Speaker 2: There is, and it's easy to fall into that trap.
40:47
Speaker 2: I mean the reason why we get out there is
40:49
Speaker 2: to connect with nature, because that's really important, and then
40:53
Speaker 2: also to connect with others. So if we're always connected
40:56
Speaker 2: to technology that doesn't work.
40:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I mean, you know, eighty, series sixty, series forties. Like,
41:03
Speaker 1: I see a lot of people that want this more simple,
41:08
Speaker 1: bare bones, back to basics approach, and I think that
41:12
Speaker 1: that's really cool.
41:13
Speaker 2: The next trip that I want to do that I'm
41:15
Speaker 2: super excited about is to travel with my dad in
41:18
Speaker 2: Scoot in the old Ford pickup. So like we're just
41:20
Speaker 2: going to roll out some bedrolls into the back into
41:23
Speaker 2: the bed and you know, bring some old school you know,
41:27
Speaker 2: Coleman stove or something like that. I mean, it'll just
41:30
Speaker 2: and I don't I don't want to use a GPS.
41:33
Speaker 2: I probably won't even bring my phone. I'm gonna bring
41:36
Speaker 2: a I'm gonna bring a nice camera, and my dad
41:38
Speaker 2: and I are going to use paper maps, and I'm
41:41
Speaker 2: going to use a compass, and I want to just
41:43
Speaker 2: like reconnect in with what it means to feel a
41:47
Speaker 2: little lost or not exactly know where you're at.
41:51
Speaker 1: It's it's important to know how good we have it
41:55
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, And that's what I was kind of
41:57
Speaker 1: trying to get with the long Way down, Long Way
41:59
Speaker 1: round thing is like they still had paper maps back then.
42:03
Speaker 1: There was no Google Maps, there was no chatch ept.
42:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did have a GPS, so they kind of
42:07
Speaker 2: knew where they were on the map, but they still
42:09
Speaker 2: needed the maps to plan their route.
42:13
Speaker 1: But I think that it's just going to be important
42:16
Speaker 1: to also recognize going a little bit more bare bones
42:20
Speaker 1: because it has just become so common. You know, like
42:25
Speaker 1: money can solve all of the problems of comfort, right,
42:30
Speaker 1: it can solve all of the problems of access. So
42:33
Speaker 1: if you I don't know, I just think that these
42:37
Speaker 1: these these doing some trips and some old cars are
42:40
Speaker 1: going to be more of a thing. I think there's,
42:42
Speaker 1: like you said, there's going to be a little bit
42:44
Speaker 1: of a pushback to the technology, and that's but.
42:47
Speaker 2: There's also going to be I think guys like you
42:50
Speaker 2: and me, I'm going to want to do both. I'm
42:52
Speaker 2: going to want my Scout camper to be like totally
42:54
Speaker 2: dialed with all the newest, coolest technology because it's important
42:57
Speaker 2: for us to test it as well. But I also
42:59
Speaker 2: think it's going to be better. And then I also
43:02
Speaker 2: want to be able to go out in the nineteen
43:04
Speaker 2: seventy one Forward pickup with a carburetor, just because it's
43:08
Speaker 2: it's it feels good to disconnect from all of that technology.
43:12
Speaker 2: And you know, you might I might have to adjust
43:14
Speaker 2: the primaries and I might need to get underneath there
43:17
Speaker 2: and tighten some bolts. It's part of the deal. It's
43:20
Speaker 2: part of the fun.
43:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, because cars don't really break these days, not much.
43:25
Speaker 1: You know how. I've had a lot of cars, generally
43:31
Speaker 1: they've been pretty new, but I've really not had many issues. Yeah,
43:38
Speaker 1: that's the advocate Accy. We'll talk about that later.
43:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the like like Dan Grek advocates for that
43:45
Speaker 2: for like the new car for a trip, and I
43:49
Speaker 2: think he's right, you know, like driving up East coast
43:53
Speaker 2: of Africa, it was a brand new car. I had
43:55
Speaker 2: three thousand miles on it, and I didn't have any issues,
43:59
Speaker 2: you know, whereas if you've got a really old car,
44:01
Speaker 2: you're probably going to be wrenching on it a lot.
44:03
Speaker 1: But that might be part of the charm too. Yeah, totally.
44:07
Speaker 1: Eighty series is a great example. In my mind, an
44:10
Speaker 1: eighty series is still kind of fresh in a modern car,
44:14
Speaker 1: you know, Like I've had forties, so then I think
44:16
Speaker 1: an eighty is pretty modern. Well like an eighties over
44:21
Speaker 1: thirty like the Yeah they made him until ninety seven,
44:26
Speaker 1: so next year the youngest eighty series will be thirty
44:30
Speaker 1: years old. That's right. Like it's crazy, you know, but
44:34
Speaker 1: think about it, like I'm when I was growing up,
44:37
Speaker 1: everybody was into like Mustangs, Like restoring Mustangs was really
44:42
Speaker 1: big in like nineties, early two thousands because that generation
44:47
Speaker 1: was sure whatever. But those were like, in my mind,
44:51
Speaker 1: like old, very vintage cars. Well that's the same age
44:54
Speaker 1: that an eighty series is now, and we're not that
44:57
Speaker 1: far off from one hundred series, that's right, you know.
45:00
Speaker 1: But newer classic cars they call them young timers in Europe,
45:08
Speaker 1: this kind of nineties two thousands, Like they're actually very
45:10
Speaker 1: complex vehicles and they had a lot of transitionary technology
45:14
Speaker 1: and them that can be you know that an eighty
45:18
Speaker 1: is dependable, but there's a lot of trim pieces that. Yes,
45:22
Speaker 1: like you can't get anymore.
45:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, or you can if you're lucky, somebody
45:25
Speaker 2: can three D print it.
45:27
Speaker 1: Yeah.
45:27
Speaker 2: The one, the one car that is now available that
45:31
Speaker 2: I'm shocked we're not seeing flooding the market is the
45:34
Speaker 2: one oh five because it's an eighty series chassis. It's
45:38
Speaker 2: a one eight Z normally aspirated, all mechanical diesel. Yep,
45:43
Speaker 2: you can get them with a manual transmission and it
45:46
Speaker 2: has like the modern body and HVAC and comfort coil
45:50
Speaker 2: sprung of one hundred series. So it's like, I'm just
45:56
Speaker 2: maybe because they look to pedestrian, I don't know, but
45:58
Speaker 2: that's the I think one O five are cool. I
46:00
Speaker 2: think that's the car.
46:01
Speaker 1: Brad McCarthy had that black one yeah, and man, we
46:04
Speaker 1: drove that thing everywhere.
46:05
Speaker 2: That's the car. I think that's the car. Like if
46:07
Speaker 2: you want to if you just want to import something
46:10
Speaker 2: and go drive it around the world tomorrow and not
46:12
Speaker 2: think about it and drive it every day too, why not.
46:15
Speaker 1: And look at the gas models too. I've been looking
46:18
Speaker 1: at like seventy series pickups outside of Out of the Side.
46:23
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, me too. Oddly, we did show up to
46:28
Speaker 2: work the same exact day with the same exact watch
46:31
Speaker 2: that we just bought the night before.
46:32
Speaker 1: Yeah so.
46:37
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46:40
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47:12
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Speaker 2: Compare builds, talk to the builders and get off the
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Speaker 2: grid for real. Tickets are just twelve dollars online or
47:27
Speaker 2: fifteen dollars at the door. Again, that's March twelfth to
47:30
Speaker 2: the fourteenth. Don't just dream it, build it and get dirty.
47:37
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. Yeah, yeah, that's the issue. Twin tanks.
47:42
Speaker 1: You can get them I mean they're not like you'd
47:44
Speaker 1: probably get one in the twenties. Yeah, high twin tanks,
47:47
Speaker 1: and like you can get people to like restore these
47:50
Speaker 1: things over there, like I keep, I keep, you know,
47:53
Speaker 1: talking to Leui.
47:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
47:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:56
Speaker 2: And and there's nothing wrong with a gas car, you know,
48:00
Speaker 2: unless you can get like a one eight Z one
48:02
Speaker 2: oh five, because then it'll eat any diesel anywhere in
48:04
Speaker 2: the world and it doesn't care. But if you go
48:08
Speaker 2: like that was one of my points on the vehicle
48:11
Speaker 2: thing is I think we're going to just unfortunately, I
48:13
Speaker 2: think we're going to just see the the other than
48:15
Speaker 2: in a really big truck. We're just not going to
48:17
Speaker 2: see that much diesel anymore. I just think that the
48:20
Speaker 2: days of getting like the Bison diesel like they're gone.
48:25
Speaker 2: They're just gone because the hybrid technology and the turbocharging
48:29
Speaker 2: has gotten the fuel efficiency so high that it's now
48:33
Speaker 2: knocking on the door of diesel. But it's a much
48:36
Speaker 2: less expensive engine to produce.
48:38
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at diesels anymore for land cruisers. I
48:41
Speaker 1: had a one h DT and that motor was just
48:43
Speaker 1: not suited for North America. Yeah, I did a lot
48:49
Speaker 1: of extensive modifications which isn't usually my thing, and it
48:55
Speaker 1: was better. It was fine, but still, you know that
48:58
Speaker 1: motor isn't to run that hard, that fast. I mean,
49:02
Speaker 1: it'll do it. It's a Toyota, but like the one
49:04
Speaker 1: F z FE. Yeah, I going to call it the
49:07
Speaker 1: one FC f E two because there's like there was
49:11
Speaker 1: an update to it that we never got in the US.
49:14
Speaker 1: That motor will run forever. I know that the fuel
49:17
Speaker 1: economy is not as good, but they're also so much
49:20
Speaker 1: cheaper to buy than the diesels, right, and frankly, they're
49:24
Speaker 1: cheaper to service, they're cheaper to maintain, they're cheaper to run.
49:27
Speaker 1: You're talking a thirty dollars oil change every ten thousand
49:30
Speaker 1: miles versus one hundred dollars oil change every three thousand miles. Sure,
49:35
Speaker 1: you know, and they're I don't know, they're just like
49:39
Speaker 1: the injection pumps on those things.
49:40
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of people are looking a lot
49:43
Speaker 2: of people are looking towards gasers now.
49:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think that regulations have really for me
49:50
Speaker 1: killed the internal combustion car. I yeah, like cars are
49:53
Speaker 1: great these days. I've had some really cool engines, but
50:00
Speaker 1: now that they get into this hybridization, PHV. You know,
50:06
Speaker 1: there was just there was a window of simplicity. Yeah, right,
50:10
Speaker 1: and we're rapidly passing that.
50:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all in appliance now. I mean we have
50:15
Speaker 2: to all know that if we buy a new car
50:18
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, the chance of that car being
50:22
Speaker 2: serviceable twenty years from now is very low. Yeah, very
50:26
Speaker 2: very low.
50:26
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I just I just bought an
50:30
Speaker 1: AAV Prospector. Again, it's my third one. The reason I
50:35
Speaker 1: keep going back to those things though, is like the
50:37
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend, you just can't let her go. I can't, like, yeah,
50:43
Speaker 1: when I got rid of my last one, what is it?
50:46
Speaker 2: Tell me what it is about the prospector what brings
50:48
Speaker 2: you back to her every time?
50:50
Speaker 1: Oh? It just it's it's honest. It works. The motor
50:59
Speaker 1: is very for what it is. It's very simple. Like
51:02
Speaker 1: I have two of the six sevens. I have the
51:05
Speaker 1: earth Roamer, which is the five fifty, and I have
51:07
Speaker 1: the the RAM. The earth Roamer ar engine, the sixty
51:11
Speaker 1: seven powerstroke terrifies me. It is so complicated. There's two
51:15
Speaker 1: cooling systems, there's a million like it's it's a very
51:19
Speaker 1: complex engine. The RAM engine is also complex, but I
51:26
Speaker 1: mean you just look underneath the hook. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, oh,
51:31
Speaker 1: I could replace that, I could replace that. I place that.
51:33
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've spent a lot of time with my
51:35
Speaker 1: ford and I have like like that's got to go
51:38
Speaker 1: to somebody to get fixed, right, And then you know,
51:42
Speaker 1: like I I feel like I simp for AV but
51:45
Speaker 1: it's just the AEV stuff. Yeah, Like it just works.
51:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just comfortable with it, like it looks.
51:54
Speaker 2: I mean, these are great looking trucks.
51:56
Speaker 1: I know that if I buy an AV product one,
52:01
Speaker 1: I'm not going through the expense of building it myself.
52:03
Speaker 1: It's really easy in and out for me.
52:08
Speaker 2: Resell value improves because of the AV stuff. Yeah, I
52:12
Speaker 2: mean they just work well. I guess that is all I'm.
52:14
Speaker 1: Going to say.
52:15
Speaker 2: Another thing I think is interesting is tire technology. These
52:19
Speaker 2: hot new hybrid tires are going to be the sweet
52:21
Speaker 2: spot for most overlanders because they're able to get the
52:24
Speaker 2: road noise down from a mud terrain, but they're able
52:27
Speaker 2: to improve traction, mechanical kying overall like soft conditions, mud
52:34
Speaker 2: snow performance. So I really look forward to seeing I
52:37
Speaker 2: think we're on the cusp of the hybrid tire really
52:40
Speaker 2: having its heyday, and that's going to just take away
52:44
Speaker 2: that decision for overlanders of like am I going to
52:46
Speaker 2: be in a muddy area or am I going to
52:49
Speaker 2: be in the desert, and or do I need to
52:52
Speaker 2: worry about fuel economy or wet condition breaking. I think
52:56
Speaker 2: that the hybrids are going to solve that, and I'm
52:58
Speaker 2: really excited to see how that part of the of
53:02
Speaker 2: the improve.
53:03
Speaker 1: Had a set of the be good rich HD terrains
53:07
Speaker 1: on my Grenadier. I think the tire looks great, durable.
53:12
Speaker 1: I think it's a perfect choice for an overlander. I mean,
53:15
Speaker 1: definitely more road noise than an all terrain you know,
53:19
Speaker 1: less snow ice performance, but it was a nice tire.
53:23
Speaker 1: It looks very durable. I mean it's hard. It's so
53:25
Speaker 1: hard to like actually review a tire without like really
53:30
Speaker 1: pushing it and having some kind of like side by
53:33
Speaker 1: side oh yeah, feedback. It's all just like so subjective.
53:36
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's the only reason, the only time we
53:38
Speaker 2: ever do a main tire review requires someone like Joe
53:43
Speaker 2: baccall a controlled environment and you test them all on
53:47
Speaker 2: the same vehicle the same weather conditions. So it's it's
53:51
Speaker 2: a huge endeavor to do it. Properly. Most tire evaluators
53:56
Speaker 2: can get you like about thirty or forty percent there
54:00
Speaker 2: with an individual tire review just because you need the
54:04
Speaker 2: A B comparison back to back on the same vehicle
54:07
Speaker 2: in the same conditions in order to really assess how
54:10
Speaker 2: the tire performs. But in you know, not only in concept,
54:15
Speaker 2: but in practice. You know, an XT or a hybrid
54:20
Speaker 2: tire offers so many advantages to the traveler.
54:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think so, Yeah, I don't know.
54:30
Speaker 2: And then like from the very beginning when this is
54:33
Speaker 2: I think something that a journey that you and I
54:35
Speaker 2: have both been on, you know, maybe even a couple
54:38
Speaker 2: of times, is just coming back to simplicity. It's like,
54:41
Speaker 2: I think we need to remember that an overland vehicle
54:48
Speaker 2: isn't perfect when you've added the last widget to it.
54:51
Speaker 2: It's perfect when you've removed the last possible thing from it.
54:56
Speaker 2: So as travelers, the less that we spend on gadgets
55:00
Speaker 2: and stuff, the more money we have left to actually travel,
55:04
Speaker 2: or to keep our expenses lower, or to save for
55:07
Speaker 2: your call, you know, kids, college or whatever. I mean,
55:09
Speaker 2: I think that the key is the simplicity has many benefits.
55:15
Speaker 2: You have improved reliability, the vehicle weighs less. You're spending
55:19
Speaker 2: less time installing, fixing, and repairing things. You also have
55:23
Speaker 2: a much lower cash outlay because you're not installing as
55:26
Speaker 2: many things, and you most you're more likely to keep
55:30
Speaker 2: the car. What I have noticed in the twenty plus
55:33
Speaker 2: years that I've been doing this is as soon as
55:36
Speaker 2: someone's done with their build it goes up for sale.
55:40
Speaker 1: A lot of.
55:41
Speaker 2: Times because it's been such an exhausting endeavor to build
55:46
Speaker 2: this thing. Their credit cards are all maxed out and
55:48
Speaker 2: they're like, this is insanity, and they sell it. Whereas
55:53
Speaker 2: if you keep the car simple, you're also going to
55:56
Speaker 2: be able to resell it easily. You're probably not going
55:59
Speaker 2: to you know, ruin your warranty or get the vehicle
56:02
Speaker 2: out of warranty. So if you can, I mean, those
56:06
Speaker 2: that are listening, please just try to keep the things.
56:09
Speaker 2: Anything that you do related to travel and gadgets and
56:12
Speaker 2: stuff and cars and motorcycles, try to keep them as
56:15
Speaker 2: close as stock as you can and the minimum modifications
56:19
Speaker 2: that it requires for the conditions that you're traveling in.
56:24
Speaker 1: You know, we've been talking about it for a while,
56:26
Speaker 1: but there are so many like vehicles that becomes so capable. Yeah,
56:30
Speaker 1: you know, but people still modify them. It's it's it's
56:36
Speaker 1: in a lot of it's in a lot of people's nature.
56:38
Speaker 1: It's certainly in my nature.
56:41
Speaker 2: But like I watched you do this with your Grenadier,
56:45
Speaker 2: you drove that car stock for longer than I've seen
56:48
Speaker 2: you drive any other car. Stock should have left at stock,
56:51
Speaker 2: I would agree, Like my experience with the Quartermaster has
56:55
Speaker 2: been different because the car is stock.
56:56
Speaker 1: Well, if you notice when I when I messed with
56:59
Speaker 1: the suspension, that's when I started having all of my
57:02
Speaker 1: that's right handling issues, like all of these things.
57:05
Speaker 2: I really live, shaft and everything else.
57:07
Speaker 1: I believe in keeping cars dislike within their like engineered envelope.
57:13
Speaker 1: You know, AEV has figured out, for example, how to
57:16
Speaker 1: get more out of it, but it's a cohesive system.
57:20
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm.
57:21
Speaker 2: So But Dave talks about that all the time. He
57:23
Speaker 2: starts with a full size heavy duty truck. Yeah, full
57:26
Speaker 2: size heavy duty trucks, by nature have to have huge
57:30
Speaker 2: margins of safety and strength because they're towing thirty thousand
57:34
Speaker 2: pounds or something like that. So if you're now you
57:37
Speaker 2: can't tow thirty thousand pounds with the Prospector anymore. But
57:40
Speaker 2: you can certainly throw forty's on it and load it up,
57:43
Speaker 2: you know, tow your boat to the lake or or
57:45
Speaker 2: go off road or you know it's going to have
57:48
Speaker 2: plenty of headroom.
57:49
Speaker 1: Well, I keep going back to the twenty five hundred
57:52
Speaker 1: Ram because it's the perfect size, you know, compared to
57:55
Speaker 1: let's say the Ford. The Ford has a much longer
57:58
Speaker 1: wod is longer, the cab is longer, interesting, the bed
58:01
Speaker 1: is longer interesting. So like a long bed RAM crew
58:06
Speaker 1: cab four door is the same length as the short
58:09
Speaker 1: bed Ford. I'm generalizing, and they thirty five hundred cause
58:16
Speaker 1: it's like a six four bed six and a half bed.
58:19
Speaker 1: They're just smaller. They're not that much bigger than a
58:22
Speaker 1: full sized truck.
58:23
Speaker 2: Interesting.
58:23
Speaker 1: Now, I had that megacab prospect Or in that. Yeah,
58:26
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it sucked. It was just too big.
58:27
Speaker 1: It was a you know, it was like you can't
58:30
Speaker 1: parket anyone. You couldn't parket it anywhere. I couldn't park
58:32
Speaker 1: it and press it. I think full sized trucks are
58:36
Speaker 1: going to continue as we talk about future can continue
58:40
Speaker 1: to become more and more relevant.
58:41
Speaker 2: We're seeing it in the industry. It's moving that direction.
58:44
Speaker 1: Quarter or you know, quarter Ton trucks, uh Ta Commas, rangers,
58:48
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff are awesome, but people still overbuild them.
58:51
Speaker 1: The industry has definitely listened and they have a lot
58:53
Speaker 1: more payload than they used to. But instead of saying, Okay, yeah,
58:58
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna put the go fat, I'm still
59:00
Speaker 1: going to put the go fast on. Now people are like, oh,
59:04
Speaker 1: I can put a hard sided scout pop up on there,
59:07
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, but you're just running into the
59:08
Speaker 1: same problem exactly, and that problem is you needed a
59:11
Speaker 1: full size truck.
59:12
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, So come back to you know, the
59:16
Speaker 2: vehicle could be a lot more simple if you buy
59:18
Speaker 2: the right car to begin with. If you buy the
59:20
Speaker 2: wrong car, then you have to spend all this money
59:22
Speaker 2: and energy trying to make it something that it's not,
59:25
Speaker 2: and that brings in the problem with it's no longer simple,
59:28
Speaker 2: it's no longer reliable. It's difficult to resell.
59:32
Speaker 1: And that's the whole that's the whole point of an
59:34
Speaker 1: overland vehicle that needs to be reliable. Yeah, anyway, future
59:40
Speaker 1: of overlanding, I think it's bright. I mean, it's exciting
59:43
Speaker 1: to see the industry stabilize. We're seeing really great growth
59:48
Speaker 1: numbers on the forum, on the Expedition Portal forum. We're
59:51
Speaker 1: seeing great growth numbers of the magazine and the website.
59:55
Speaker 1: So and that's because of all of you that are listening.
59:58
Speaker 1: I mean, the Overland Journal Pop podcast would not exist
1:00:02
Speaker 1: without the subscribers to the Overland Journal magazine. So those
1:00:06
Speaker 1: of you who do subscribe, we are so grateful for
1:00:10
Speaker 1: your support. It also allows us.
1:00:12
Speaker 2: To be without conflict when we talk about stuff like
1:00:16
Speaker 2: Matt can speak freely about what he thinks about a
1:00:19
Speaker 2: product because we're not being paid to be on the
1:00:22
Speaker 2: air to talk about products in one direction or another.
1:00:25
Speaker 2: We get to share our genuine experiences.
1:00:29
Speaker 1: So yeah, they don't actually tell me what I can
1:00:31
Speaker 1: and can't say, which is why I'm still here exactly.
1:00:36
Speaker 2: Well, it's the whole point of journalism, So yeah, I
1:00:38
Speaker 2: think so. And in today's day and age, we need
1:00:41
Speaker 2: we need that more than ever.
1:00:43
Speaker 1: So yeah, well cool, I don't know, I'm I'm super excited.
1:00:47
Speaker 1: I will say for the future. I think that this
1:00:49
Speaker 1: podcast was meant to be a little fun, yeah, kind
1:00:52
Speaker 1: of conceptually looking at where things can go. What I'm
1:00:55
Speaker 1: most excited about is these technologies that are coming out
1:00:58
Speaker 1: that are that are in or in place. We'll just
1:01:01
Speaker 1: make it easier for people to do this, so it'll
1:01:04
Speaker 1: make it more affordable, it'll make it easier, more comfortable.
1:01:09
Speaker 1: I think that's going to get more people out and
1:01:11
Speaker 1: I think that that's at the end of the day,
1:01:12
Speaker 1: the goal is to inspire more people to travel and
1:01:18
Speaker 1: take a look at some of these things.
1:01:19
Speaker 2: I agree. Thanks for another great one, Matt, Yeah, yeah,
1:01:24
Speaker 2: and we thank you all for listening, and we'll talk
1:01:25
Speaker 2: to you next time.