Latest / Zone2Speak Podcast / Ryan Le Garrec: Bikes, Waves & Broken Beauty

Transcript

Ryan Le Garrec: Bikes, Waves & Broken Beauty · Zone2Speak Podcast

• 0:00
  I don't think you have to do anything special. You can make bread or you can
• 0:02
  just go out for a walk and you can be an artist in the way you walk out and
• 0:07
  the way you look at things.
• 0:08
  And yeah, being depleted and being really tired on a neutral race or on a neutral
• 0:12
  shoot is definitely helping to find beauty in anything.
• 0:16
  And that's, I was in Rwanda now at the beginning of the year and this is the
• 0:19
  article I've been working on.
• 0:21
  It's quite a beefy article for a ruler.
• 0:25
  And it's really about that. It's really about how, to me, that mental state
• 0:29
  of like being slightly broken just makes everything around you golden and how it's...
• 0:35
  Because that was... The article is me sharing with somebody why,
• 0:40
  you know, the why of those races, which is a question I had never really figured out myself.
• 0:45
  It was all poetry and blah, blah, blah, but I couldn't really understand why are we doing that.
• 0:49
  Music.
• 0:52
  Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Zone to Speak podcast. I'm your host, Juliana.
• 0:59
  Hey, everyone. Before we dive in, a quick shout out to the amazing brands that I use and love.
• 1:06
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  All the links, discounts, and codes are in the episode description,
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  so check them out, grab some great deals, and know you're helping keep Zone2Speak rolling.
• 2:18
  Now, let's get into the episode.
• 2:22
  Welcome back to Zone to Speak. Today, I'm joined by a familiar voice,
• 2:27
  filmmaker, storyteller, cyclist, and all-around creative spirit, Ryan Ligahek.
• 2:34
  If you have been listening for a while, you'll remember Ryan from his first
• 2:38
  visit to the pod, where we dove into his love for adventure and the emotional layers of filmmaking.
• 2:45
  This time, he's back to catch up on what he's been up to lately.
• 2:49
  From the latest in his cycling life to surfing, creative projects,
• 2:54
  travel, and whatever else he's been chasing, because with Ryan,
• 2:58
  it's never just one thing.
• 3:00
  Let's dive in. Ryan, welcome to Zone to Speak. Hey. Hi.
• 3:06
  Good to be back. So happy you're here.
• 3:09
  I'm so happy you gave me your time when I first started the podcast.
• 3:15
  I think we were my second or third guest So I really appreciate you Supporting
• 3:21
  my project It's a pleasure I followed,
• 3:28
  You've been super consistent Thank you, I'm trying Crazy.
• 3:35
  I have no idea how you do I tried hosting a podcast And I did one with Chris
• 3:43
  Burkhardt And I was like, oh, I saw that.
• 3:46
  That is a hard, hard joke.
• 3:49
  Yeah. And I produce, I write, I edit, I do everything. It's one man's shop.
• 3:55
  But I think, I don't know, because you are a creative person and I never had this opportunity.
• 4:01
  So this is like the first time in my life that I'm able to let some of my creative out.
• 4:08
  I don't know. Maybe that's why. I don't know. Maybe because, you know, you
• 4:10
  have so much creativity in you and you have so many other projects and
• 4:13
  this is the only creative i have in my life you know my daytime job
• 4:17
  it's like financial world which you know
• 4:20
  i took a much lower title job to
• 4:23
  be able to manage other things you
• 4:26
  know because i oh yeah i'm so tired of the corporate world so i took like a
• 4:30
  individual contributor role working from home i do as i'm told and i'm loving
• 4:38
  it how is the because you We moved to Girona in the meantime.
• 4:43
  I think last time we spoke, you were not yet in Girona.
• 4:48
  You were just thinking about it, I think.
• 4:51
  How has that been? Yeah, it's good. I mean, Girona is amazing for a lot of things.
• 4:59
  You know, the cycling, you have all the routes, road, gravel,
• 5:03
  mountain bike, you name it.
• 5:06
  And it's good weather almost all year round. Beautiful city.
• 5:10
  But that said, it is a little bit of a bubble, you know, like for me as an average
• 5:16
  cyclist, because you have the pros, so I'm not going to ride with them.
• 5:19
  And then you have some of the influencers, probably not going to ride with them
• 5:24
  because I'm not the fastest.
• 5:26
  And also it's very, what is the word? You know, people come and go,
• 5:30
  even the people that live here, because they're all racing.
• 5:33
  And the summer gets too hot. A lot of people go back home, whatever home is,
• 5:38
  Germany, England, Sweden.
• 5:41
  Yeah, so it's nice. But I haven't found my tribe.
• 5:46
  Yeah, I can imagine. It's a bit the same here, actually, but with surfing, right?
• 5:52
  There's a lot of people for whom it's like a second home.
• 5:56
  They come back from Indo or Bali and they spend maybe three,
• 6:01
  four months, five months, six months.
• 6:03
  But you get a lot of turnover, so yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, so you get it. Yeah.
• 6:09
  But I mean, for me, it's been like a massive jump also because,
• 6:13
  what was it, like six or seven months ago, I didn't give a shit about the ocean.
• 6:18
  You know, I didn't care at all.
• 6:20
  Yeah. I was just looking at it like a wasted opportunity for cycling.
• 6:24
  I was like, there could be so many trails on the left here.
• 6:26
  There could be a nice road. There could be a hill. There could be this.
• 6:29
  And there's just like this vast amount of water.
• 6:33
  And I was like, this is really, really not very handy for cyclists.
• 6:37
  And I was like, after visiting Girona, I was like, well, this is definitely
• 6:40
  where I should base myself, not in Asia.
• 6:43
  And I talked about it with my ex-wife and we were thinking about it.
• 6:46
  And then we separated, and then I discovered surfing.
• 6:51
  I went to the ocean for the first time after four years here.
• 6:55
  Wow. Yeah, you're like the surf capital in Europe.
• 6:58
  And I saw that you changed your Instagram profile to love bikes and waves.
• 7:05
  Yeah, something like that. You have caught the bug. How are the surf sessions going?
• 7:10
  Well, for me now, there's not much going on because I destroyed my ribs for
• 7:14
  the second time already.
• 7:16
  From the paddling on the board?
• 7:19
  I have no clue. I think it's just from like overusing them.
• 7:23
  Like every time I, it's a bit like with cycling. Every time you do a little
• 7:27
  bit too much, you just destroy more than you build up.
• 7:31
  And after the session, I just started feeling them and I was like,
• 7:35
  oh, that's the same pain. So they're probably bruised or cracked.
• 7:39
  I don't know. I don't even go check them, you know, because it's like everybody has this here.
• 7:43
  So if you say to someone like, yeah, my ribs are hurting, everybody's like, yeah, and? So...
• 7:50
  So the sessions are very not happening.
• 7:57
  Also, it's the summer, so the waves are still here, but they're not as powerful.
• 8:01
  I started surfing in October, and that was really powerful waves.
• 8:06
  I say it was a hard start, and then the winter was mad.
• 8:10
  And the water there is super cold, no?
• 8:14
  Well, I don't know. I used to surf in Brittany and in the southwest of France.
• 8:20
  And I used to, I rarely would wear a wetsuit. So for me, it's absolutely great.
• 8:26
  Like you go, I have a shitty wetsuit, water comes in.
• 8:31
  Everybody's like, how do you even manage to swim or paddle? And I'm like,
• 8:35
  no, I'm warm. I'm good. I'm good. So it's all good.
• 8:39
  I feel like surfing is like slow, meditative rhythm.
• 8:44
  How do you switch like between that surf vibe to the endurance mindset when you go like on an ultra,
• 8:53
  or an adventure well the funny thing with uh surfing it's like i was telling
• 8:58
  a friend recently you know that headspace you get after like five days on the
• 9:03
  bike on a new truck or five days touring yeah i know like it takes me like a
• 9:07
  good almost a week to get to the zone where i'm like,
• 9:11
  I'm in the mountains in Moko and now I'm relaxed.
• 9:15
  It takes about five minutes with surfing. You just go out there,
• 9:19
  you pass the line up, it's like messy, you get waves crashing on you and stuff.
• 9:24
  I need to start surfing then, ASAP.
• 9:27
  Yeah, because once you're there, it's like, oh, okay, now I'm totally,
• 9:30
  there's no time to think about anything.
• 9:32
  It's like, you just got to survive the first minutes and you get past the chaos,
• 9:38
  past the mess of the waves and you're just at the lineup waiting for the big
• 9:42
  sets and you're totally immersed in the moment. It's incredible.
• 9:48
  I fell in love with this because it's very, very, very addictive.
• 9:52
  I understand that people here are just mad.
• 9:54
  You get a lot of people, they design their life around it. A bit like cycling,
• 9:59
  a bit like ultra endurance.
• 10:00
  Yeah. Are you not afraid of being taken by a current?
• 10:03
  I'm not afraid if there's people around, but I feel like if I'm alone out there,
• 10:08
  I would be so scared. I guess the same with cycling. I'm also alone.
• 10:11
  When I'm alone, I'm always terrified.
• 10:13
  Well, I mean, as you said, it's the self-capital of Europe, so you're never alone.
• 10:18
  That's true. You're probably fighting for waves. Yeah, that's often the main
• 10:23
  problem is that there's people.
• 10:24
  And I don't necessarily get scared of being taken away by a current or stuff
• 10:31
  because I know now locals and I've been like...
• 10:37
  Surfing for me was it started because I had to make a film about a coach and
• 10:41
  she got me into the water and now I work with these other young pros and so
• 10:48
  I go with like the best of the best and I'm like ridiculously,
• 10:53
  beginner like level zero,
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  but they're like super cool and they show you the stuff they say like there's
• 11:01
  a rock there like don't do anything stupid there or put down to it there or
• 11:06
  that's the riptide there or that's the way to do it.
• 11:08
  It's important to know, yeah, when you, yeah, that's cool that you have all
• 11:12
  these pros, you know, locals teaching you the ropes.
• 11:17
  Yeah, it feels so funny because it's exactly like when I started recycling in the traditions,
• 11:25
  there was a lot working with Joshy Bet and I was working with somebody who won
• 11:29
  the TCR or things like that.
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  And you're like, you can ask them any advice and i always feel like you know
• 11:37
  i felt like well what a privilege like i can ask a winner for like advice and
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  then i don't follow them and i stay shit but at least i.
• 11:45
  I'm the same now with surfing it's like all those
• 11:48
  pros around that i'm getting to be friends with
• 11:51
  and it's a really fun world well i'm enjoying
• 11:54
  all the images very very beautiful work you
• 11:57
  are doing so you have a special camera to take those pictures or is there like
• 12:01
  a cage that you can put your camera on no there's a cage unfortunately i've
• 12:07
  been like super broke so i've never managed to buy one but uh i got friends
• 12:12
  who sometimes like they can lend me like their camera and and.
• 12:16
  The cage the equipment okay cool yeah but for
• 12:20
  photography i've been mainly working from the ground unfortunately because
• 12:24
  i i love being in the water and when i go in the water is
• 12:27
  to film is to do videos and then it's like
• 12:29
  with a gopro and you know filming from a
• 12:32
  bodyboard a lot like cycling because i
• 12:35
  i started like you know making things on
• 12:38
  cycling i started with bike messengers and there was
• 12:41
  pictures from the bike and now it's like images from the from the
• 12:43
  boat so it's always like immersive yeah i'm
• 12:48
  enjoying this face ah sweet i think
• 12:51
  every every every seven every seven
• 12:55
  years there's like a big switch in my life you know first
• 12:58
  it was a contemporary dance when i was like getting out
• 13:00
  of school i mean getting kicked out of school it
• 13:03
  was contemporary dance then it was like music with damien rice like for for
• 13:07
  i think seven years also with damien rice yeah yeah wow love him yeah yeah i
• 13:14
  was touring with him working on a documentary when was that that was It was like from 2004 to 2009.
• 13:21
  Well, the trick was that I think it was in 2006, the band split it.
• 13:26
  So there was massive drama. As I had a wild card, I was filming this,
• 13:31
  and that was the subject of the film, how the industry crashes bands,
• 13:35
  how the industry is a real vampire, the music industry.
• 13:39
  It really sucks the blood of young artists.
• 13:42
  So obviously Warner being the distribution, they didn't go for it.
• 13:48
  And the documentary never got released.
• 13:50
  So we did a whole bunch of little things here and there. and I did photography
• 13:54
  for him, video and stuff.
• 13:56
  But the main documentary never got released.
• 13:59
  That was a crash. Bummer. Yeah, I guess because the band broke up and Warner
• 14:03
  is all about, you know, obviously, they are looking at their pockets and if
• 14:06
  the band is not together to tour the documentary, the press and things like that, maybe that's why?
• 14:13
  Yeah, I mean, it wasn't really that because Damien was still touring,
• 14:19
  still making music, just not with the band, but they just didn't like the negative of it, you know?
• 14:25
  And they didn't like to be pointed finger. I mean, I never said anything.
• 14:30
  The film was never saying anything, but it was just showing the pressure buildup,
• 14:34
  you know, the touring becoming bigger and bigger.
• 14:37
  Because I really arrived when Damien was like breaking out.
• 14:39
  He had released, oh, like maybe a year or two ago and the album had like started
• 14:46
  very slowly and then it exploded. And that's when I arrived.
• 14:49
  So things were like moving, you know? we were going to Glastonbury we were touring
• 14:54
  alongside often with the Kings of Leon who were also exploding at the same time,
• 14:59
  and everybody was super chill but at the same time the world was spinning around really fast,
• 15:05
  I love both of those bands it must have been incredible to be backstage.
• 15:11
  The Kings of Leon I remember in Glastonbury it was their first ever big stage
• 15:16
  and they were pissing themselves and we were with them like five minutes before and five minutes after.
• 15:24
  And their faces, it's like they lost five years just going on stage and coming back. They were like,
• 15:30
  They came back and they were like, okay, that's done. That was amazing.
• 15:33
  And I remember you're on stage in Glastonbury and the sound is not good on stage.
• 15:38
  It's actually quite awful.
• 15:39
  But what happens is that once the song is over, the audience just goes mad.
• 15:44
  And then the whole stage sort of vibrates a little bit.
• 15:48
  That's a really, really intense feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
• 15:53
  Now I'm feeling in the niche to go to a concert.
• 15:57
  Yeah. I haven't been in so long. I went in Dubai a lot.
• 16:02
  It was very nice because things are much more controlled.
• 16:05
  You know, it was so nice. They had this Dubai Jazz Festival.
• 16:09
  I don't think they have it anymore.
• 16:11
  And a lot of times there was not even jazz, but because I saw Sting live and
• 16:17
  it was such an intimate, small, you know, there's not like overcrowded.
• 16:21
  It felt like a private concert almost.
• 16:23
  So, so, so nice. I have a lot of good memories from that.
• 16:26
  Yeah I think like and then if you go to like festivals and concerts in a very comfortable.
• 16:34
  Like you want a beer you can go get it for free you want to wind down you have
• 16:37
  access to the all that it's not like when people are pushing and shoving and
• 16:42
  everybody wants to get to the front I became snobbish I became fragile.
• 16:49
  Friends would be like hey let's go to a gig and I'd be like no no no I don't
• 16:52
  want to be squished and stuff I don't want to wait one hour in a line to take a piece at a festival.
• 16:58
  So I was very, but now I'm going back to gigs a little bit.
• 17:03
  Well, I mean, I have a friend in Portugal who's a booker, so he gets me backstage and stuff like that.
• 17:08
  But I've been going a little bit more, and it's been amazing.
• 17:11
  I want to see Fontaine's DC, King Gizzard, and The Lizard King or something like that.
• 17:17
  And yeah, there's some really good music going on around.
• 17:21
  There's some cool stuff happening.
• 17:23
  Yeah, yeah. What else? What else is happening?
• 17:28
  What are you up to lately besides surfing? Well, I just got my bike back kind of. Nice!
• 17:36
  I was only commuting on my road bike. Oh, but you also have the cargo e-bike.
• 17:42
  Now I see you a lot on the event.
• 17:44
  Yeah, so the cargo e-bike was my favorite bike because I could put like two
• 17:48
  boards, five wetsuits in it if I wanted to, and then the normal bike.
• 17:53
  It's just like I had like a really weird breakup with cycling because like I
• 17:58
  separated from my wife and I instantly discovered surfing and that was like,
• 18:05
  oh, new me, you know, like that's refreshing.
• 18:08
  And the way I looked at my bike was like, I've sacrificed so much to work in cycling, you know.
• 18:16
  I grinded for so many years And now here I am, like alone, you know, in a shack.
• 18:22
  And I was like, fuck bikes, you know? Like, I don't, I don't,
• 18:25
  my bike would be like under the rain, getting rusty.
• 18:29
  And I couldn't care less. It was just a way to get to the beach or the bar or something.
• 18:34
  But like, I just had to go see Sofia and I'm making a little article for a bike. Love that.
• 18:42
  Yeah. He took off the Eurasia fastest time and you were there. How cool. Tell me more.
• 18:47
  Well, I mean, I had to go by bike. And when I came back, it was funny because
• 18:53
  when I came back, I took the long way and I took some gravel and I went on a
• 18:56
  little mini adventure of maybe three hours, but it felt amazing.
• 19:00
  And I'm back in love with cycling.
• 19:03
  And it's part thanks to Sofiane because seeing him before the start and feeling
• 19:08
  the energy and thirst we had for this trip because Sofiane is coming back to his sources.
• 19:15
  He discovered Urtodistance through touring yeah yeah I had him on the podcast
• 19:22
  yeah I know so you know how he got his first bike and all that like in time,
• 19:27
  and to see him like going on this adventure,
• 19:30
  not being challenged by a race or something but being like wow I'm just gonna cross the world and.
• 19:37
  Have some lovely time on the bike was like really inspiring and it really made
• 19:41
  me fall back in love with my own bike and this feeling and I was like,
• 19:45
  oh, I need to do that soon.
• 19:47
  And one of my insurers who also lives in Asia, is also an ultra distance guy,
• 19:54
  had just told me three days ago before that, hey, do you want to go on a bikepacking
• 19:59
  trip? And I was like, no, fuck that.
• 20:01
  I stay put. No? No, I was like, no, I want to surf every day. I don't want to.
• 20:07
  And then I was like, when I was on the bike, I texted him and I was like,
• 20:11
  I can't surf. My ribs hurt. I cannot even go in the water to film.
• 20:15
  But I definitely can ride my bike, and that's great. And I am definitely looking forward to it.
• 20:20
  We just have to make a backpacking trip of 20 kilometers a day,
• 20:23
  but that's not a problem.
• 20:24
  We can build it up. Wait a second. I think I want to join, because that's my
• 20:29
  type of backpacking trip.
• 20:31
  You guys have a destination or not yet? Still planning? Okay.
• 20:35
  It's just, and I think it will be like a really small one. Given we're in Portugal,
• 20:40
  we probably want to cross the border to go to Spain.
• 20:43
  I start my rides when I cross a border. I always feel like this is the beginning of the real adventure.
• 20:50
  You're not in the same language, the same area. But you are a few kilometers from the border, no?
• 20:56
  Well, like 250 or something like that. Yeah, not bad. Or 300, depending.
• 21:01
  Yeah, it's like a day and a half if you push a bit.
• 21:04
  And then you can always jump on a train in Lisbon, and then you're like three hours away from Spain.
• 21:10
  And I just love going to Spain.
• 21:12
  Well, you should stop by here. I will. I will. You better. I'm hoping to be back soon.
• 21:21
  I might do Badlands, but to follow Jesse Yates last year.
• 21:27
  Cool. I love your films. Please continue to do those.
• 21:34
  It's so intense. Even if you already know what happened to the writer and you
• 21:38
  are watching your doc film, It's so intense It's just so raw,
• 21:45
  real I love everything How you mix the lightning,
• 21:50
  the blurbs For me, it's perfection It speaks my love language Thank you I hope
• 21:59
  you can convince brands Because it's been really hard to impose a style that is like.
• 22:05
  More based on like filmmaking than you know
• 22:08
  product showing and stuff i i yeah i had
• 22:11
  a tough time with that and and yeah jesse jesse yates is a super interesting
• 22:18
  racer because he's in the gravel world he has no time for bs if i may you know
• 22:25
  like he's like so dead serious business he It means business.
• 22:31
  It means business. He's there to perform. And it's not a joke to him. And he's not smiling.
• 22:37
  You know, he's got a very rock and roll attitude, which I'm really drawn to.
• 22:40
  Like he's very, and a super dark sense of humor.
• 22:44
  And if you follow him on Instagram, he's got the best references when it comes to film and stuff.
• 22:49
  So I'm really looking forward to work again with him. Because last year we had
• 22:53
  like such a challenging time. How so?
• 22:57
  Because I was filming from the bike. And I have to follow the race,
• 23:00
  but obviously I cannot follow Jesse more than two seconds.
• 23:05
  That's right. There are some rules, right? Yeah, there are some rules of how
• 23:08
  much time you spend, so it's not support.
• 23:11
  No, it was not that. It was just that because it's a 750-kilometer loop and
• 23:17
  I had to catch him a few times, I had to take shortcuts.
• 23:20
  David from the race was super nice with me because he let me kind of do my thing.
• 23:26
  And he was like, look, you're on a bike, so you're not disturbing the racers at your own expense.
• 23:33
  You know, like you take your own chances and there's like only a few sections
• 23:41
  of the race where you can follow with a car.
• 23:43
  Whereas like if you're on a bike, he's like, dude, like I'm not going to be
• 23:47
  bothered if you're on a bike, like taking pictures or filming. It's totally fine.
• 23:51
  And are you on an e-bike or a regular bike? No, no, normal bike. Normal bike.
• 23:56
  That's impressive hats off yeah but it's not really like we had planned it really
• 24:01
  well that I was doing maybe a 300k ride while Jesse was doing like 750k,
• 24:08
  And in the end, Jesse scratched after 200 kilometers. He just lost it at the first checkpoint.
• 24:15
  Wow. So I had nothing. We had very little because we had met like maybe twice
• 24:20
  already during the race.
• 24:22
  And what did he scratch? Had a mechanical or the heat?
• 24:25
  I don't remember exactly what went on, but it was in the mind.
• 24:30
  Something happened in his mind. It just didn't click.
• 24:34
  I've been there many times.
• 24:39
  And that year the faces of the riders arriving in Go were really,
• 24:47
  impressive, they just had crossed the desert and everybody was in tremendous
• 24:51
  pain Justin asked, who I was also filming a little bit.
• 24:58
  For the next film now that is coming out from Thielfin and Albion I don't know who.
• 25:04
  I was doing some video work that I could you know
• 25:07
  provide for them he was also like i mean he
• 25:09
  went to sleep he went to sleep i think four or five hours wow
• 25:13
  that's just in us like after 215 kilometers
• 25:16
  he went to sleep like this is how about his alarm clock
• 25:19
  wow for one hour and he
• 25:22
  kept snoozing one more hour one more hour because he
• 25:26
  tried to get up the first the first alarm and he
• 25:29
  was just like i cannot i cannot even stand on my legs like
• 25:32
  so he went back to sleep wow that you know it's rough if the king of chaos is
• 25:40
  having a hard time getting up I remember somebody saying that he was so depleted
• 25:46
  he looked like Ulrich Bartolomé small than himself,
• 25:50
  you know like Ulrich's face yeah he was still like in a great mood but I really
• 25:58
  saw that hole in him and that was really really,
• 26:02
  really impressive because he left a girl,
• 26:06
  I think he was in 80 or 90th position, and he climbed back to top 20 within a day.
• 26:14
  So he was telling me, oh yeah, I've been on many selfies and I've been meeting so many people.
• 26:20
  It's so lonely at the top. It's so lonely. I never get to meet them.
• 26:26
  Today, I've just been chatting with everyone. It was really fun to see him like this.
• 26:31
  Yeah, it is funny. You remind me, I have this wonderful friend from triathlon,
• 26:36
  and he's always on top, always, always.
• 26:39
  And he was having some type of cramp, something happened, and he was really struggling.
• 26:44
  And he was on the back. And when he finished, he's just like,
• 26:48
  oh, my gosh, I didn't know it was so much fun back there.
• 26:52
  Like, yeah, join the party. Everybody's helping each other, offering gels, you know.
• 26:59
  Yeah, I think my best experience for this was, I don't know if we talked about
• 27:04
  it last time, I don't know if I had done it before, but it was definitely Desertes
• 27:08
  Baikus, this French race.
• 27:10
  Yeah, I saw that. You posted it. It's like a rally. I think it was in April.
• 27:15
  Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're encouraged to ride with other people.
• 27:20
  You're encouraged to just have a fun time.
• 27:23
  So I remember having beers on the race, which was so funny, really chilling
• 27:28
  at the terrace with people and just having a laugh.
• 27:32
  And then the next day you feel like getting a few more kilometers and just go for it.
• 27:36
  And then later you catch back another group and it's another party.
• 27:41
  I think there's more and more events that are coming now with this kind of attitude
• 27:46
  where it's like all about parties, whether it's like the gravel camp.
• 27:53
  Boatabash is also very much like this where there's five
• 27:56
  people racing and everybody else is just having a
• 28:00
  fun day on the bike yeah you know when i went
• 28:02
  to biking in brazil i was actually i mean
• 28:05
  disappointed sound like a negative word but i was a little bit shocked that
• 28:10
  everyone was so competitive i'm like oh my gosh nobody is like chilled i was
• 28:16
  really like shocked i was like wow what you know because what i love about ultras is really like.
• 28:23
  Oh there are cyclists here I'm gonna stop you know you see bikes and then you
• 28:26
  stop and then you exchange stories you have a coffee a coke a beer if you want
• 28:31
  to you know like for me that's the best part and when everybody's super competitive
• 28:36
  I mean good on them but for me it's not the same,
• 28:40
  I love the party but I
• 28:43
  also have the deepest respect for the suffering yeah
• 28:47
  yeah I want to it myself and you
• 28:50
  know there's a lot more there's a lot of people now who
• 28:53
  you know I was writing with Marin in Morocco
• 28:56
  and we were talking about the sleep thing and he was
• 28:59
  like yeah I don't enjoy sleep deprivation and also I tend to sleep and I was
• 29:05
  like oh no I love sleep deprivation I love hallucinating I love being so skinned
• 29:12
  alive that like every little thing matters every you know because Yeah,
• 29:16
  I think you need to enjoy it.
• 29:18
  If you are doing that, I mean, of course, there is the suffering and the overcoming
• 29:22
  of the suffering, but you need to enjoy that.
• 29:25
  Yeah. And like Michael said, nothing worth it is ever easy.
• 29:31
  And so if you don't go through those states of like depletion,
• 29:35
  like being dehydrated or being sleep deprived, you're also missing the point for many things.
• 29:43
  I think you're much more open to beauty and to grace when you are in a state
• 29:51
  of being rough, being in a bad way, you know, being depleted.
• 29:57
  When the landscape hurts you, when you're like really destroyed by it,
• 30:02
  when you're suffering in the mountains and you're suffering from the heat or
• 30:04
  you're suffering in the desert, it looks more powerful.
• 30:07
  You see the details with more vibrance you know and it's something we know like,
• 30:13
  I remember talking with Chris Burkard about that I was like you really put yourself in,
• 30:19
  shitty situation and stuff uh and he was like yeah because i see better i get better shots if i'm,
• 30:25
  you know hurt by by the landscape if i'm feeling it if it's like freezing cold
• 30:30
  i'm not going to press the shutter the same way and it's the same with ultra
• 30:34
  if you're not at some point.
• 30:37
  Suffering and enduring it's not called endurance for
• 30:40
  nothing so i get a little bit annoyed when everybody wants
• 30:43
  to make it like soft and yeah you know
• 30:46
  we shouldn't promote this and we shouldn't promote that no i mean like nobody's promoting
• 30:49
  putting yourself in danger but maybe just
• 30:52
  you know giving a shit and and and going
• 30:55
  hard at it and i've done both i've my first ever
• 30:58
  race was the transcontinental race i had done like one sportive in my whole
• 31:02
  life and then i did that race and i was shit ready you know like i i was not
• 31:08
  ready at all i blocked my back two weeks before the start i couldn't stand more
• 31:14
  than 15 minutes like literally i think it was more like wow to Like,
• 31:18
  yeah, I was sitting on the ground at the start. I could sit on the bike. That was magical.
• 31:22
  Like, that was the only place where I was comfortable. Wow, that's a good thing.
• 31:25
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I suffered so much from, like, all the rookie mistakes
• 31:30
  that you should make on the 300 kilometers brevet I did on the 4,000-kilometer race.
• 31:36
  But everything looked so much more intense, you know? You don't get to cry in
• 31:40
  the middle of the night at the beauty of the stars if you're, like, fresh.
• 31:44
  Yeah. You don't get that. Yeah. I read that when you are so tired...
• 31:51
  I'm going to butcher the explanation. I'm sorry, I'm not a neuroscientist,
• 31:55
  but I think it was actually on a neuroscience podcast,
• 31:59
  what's his name, Huberman Lab, that he was talking about how when you are extremely
• 32:03
  tired, some of these blockers unblock your senses and you feel so much more
• 32:10
  emotional and you feel everything so much more intense.
• 32:14
  Yeah, and I agree with you on that, because I also had had my phase,
• 32:19
  maybe we'll come back one day, where I wanted to be on the front,
• 32:22
  I wanted to go to exhaustion, sleep two hours, I cannot go without sleep,
• 32:26
  but I sleep two, three hours, start again.
• 32:28
  And it felt really good because you are overcoming so much and i don't think using the word suffer,
• 32:37
  takes it away from someone that it's suffering a different facet of the word.
• 32:45
  Those are different things it's not because it's a privilege that
• 32:48
  i put myself through this it doesn't mean that i don't suffer yeah i
• 32:52
  remember when we did the length of time with josh i mean
• 32:56
  i don't remember the exact quote but he's super eloquent about those
• 32:59
  things and he was explaining difference between touring and touring bikepacking
• 33:03
  and then racing and you to distance and he was just
• 33:06
  like the main difference is you make yourself miserable and that's it and uh
• 33:11
  but yeah like um even as a media like i've i've now started like i i remember
• 33:19
  following this race last year via And I was with a young photographer,
• 33:24
  Eduardo Freze, and he was really eager.
• 33:27
  You know, he was like, let's go here and let's go there.
• 33:29
  And he had plans the whole day. And I was like, dude, I have very little experience
• 33:34
  in ultracycling, but I can tell you something.
• 33:36
  The media coverage plans, they're a joke. It never happened.
• 33:40
  You're at the right place for the sunset. The guy has a flat. Exactly.
• 33:43
  And you're waiting for nothing. So just go with the flow. And then...
• 33:48
  He was laughing because I was constantly sleeping. I wasn't sleep deprived at all.
• 33:54
  I was feeling up on sleep. And he was like, do you always sleep that much?
• 33:58
  And I was like, no, no, I used to not sleep at all and go through the thing.
• 34:01
  But now I'm getting older.
• 34:02
  And yeah, in a car, I fall asleep every five minutes. It's just the vibration.
• 34:08
  But at the same time, I was doing it even more. I wanted it to be more easy
• 34:13
  because I was two weeks on the race.
• 34:14
  And he was just coming for the Italian part at the end. And I was like,
• 34:18
  dude, you're fresh. I'm fucked.
• 34:19
  So let's please, you know, like, don't push too hard because you're just jumping
• 34:25
  in the race and I'm a ruler since the beginning.
• 34:30
  But we had so much fun mixing the two energies, like sometimes like pushing
• 34:34
  hard and then other times just like,
• 34:37
  let's relax, you know, have that extra coffee be put and then boom,
• 34:41
  you're with the camera, there's a guy who comes, you're sitting at the right
• 34:44
  spot and you're like, bang, we didn't, you know, we didn't try.
• 34:47
  I now had to do a portrait for, I'm working on a portrait for a writer,
• 34:52
  quite a big writer, you know, like millions of copies of his book. Wow.
• 34:57
  So there was a lot of pressure in the location hunting.
• 35:01
  We had to find a place which was like half out, half in.
• 35:06
  And it was basically like you're going to have to shoot in a doorway.
• 35:09
  What is that? It's a back balcony? What is it? It's like a doorway, you know.
• 35:13
  And I was so stressed about it. And I work with my friend, Bram,
• 35:19
  who's a young 20-year-old photographer and video maker and an amazing musician.
• 35:24
  And he's a kid from Belgium who's also living here in Asia.
• 35:29
  And I just, you know, I had done like two days of location hunting,
• 35:33
  taking all those pictures of like doorways and outside the church, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 35:39
  And I was sending them to the writer. I was like, no, no, that's not it.
• 35:43
  No, no, that's not it. I love it, but I know that it has to be like this.
• 35:47
  And I go to his house, we have a beer, and then I go to the fridge to get another beer.
• 35:52
  And then I look at this little place, and I'm like, Bram, come,
• 35:56
  stand here, shoot the picture, send it to the writer.
• 35:59
  And he's like, this is exactly that. You know, when you stop trying. Wow.
• 36:03
  Yeah, when you relax, it comes to you.
• 36:06
  Yeah, it just comes to you. And for me, that's a metaphor about everything that's creative.
• 36:12
  Don't force it. I have a Finnish friend who's a bike messenger.
• 36:17
  He's the owner of the company I used to work for, Kardama.
• 36:20
  His real name is Karl-Hans-Paul, but he lived seven years in Tibet.
• 36:25
  Not in Tibet, what do I say? In India, he was a monk. He was in the same temple as George Harrison.
• 36:30
  Believe me or not, he was having lunch every day with George Harrison.
• 36:34
  And I'm like, dude, what the hell did you talk about? He's like,
• 36:37
  dude, we were Hindu monks.
• 36:38
  You don't talk. Yeah, silence. Silence.
• 36:41
  But this guy is amazing. Like during COVID, he just grabbed the camera that
• 36:46
  he had been given by a friend that he had never used.
• 36:49
  And he just started taking pictures.
• 36:52
  And in two weeks, he became like a photographer, like an amazing street art photographer.
• 36:56
  He's selling prints for 3,000 euros now. I've never sold a print that expensive in my whole life.
• 37:01
  And I'm like, dude, like what? He just made a book.
• 37:04
  And that took him like two weeks to learn. But we were talking about like,
• 37:09
  you know, when you're not trying like often like, And we had exactly the same
• 37:13
  thing happening to us. Like, I'll make a shot.
• 37:15
  And then I'm like, oh, that's nice. And then I do it again and again and again and again.
• 37:20
  And when you look at them, you always come back to the first one.
• 37:23
  Yes. And it's not as well framed. It's not as well composed.
• 37:28
  It's not as well exposed.
• 37:30
  Everything is maybe a little bit off, but there's something about it that is
• 37:34
  like more touching when you look at it. Because it's just freaking genuine.
• 37:38
  It's more instant. Exactly. The other ones that you're overthinking.
• 37:41
  No this the light you stop balancing things and you start like you know and
• 37:46
  it was the same thing with this location hunting for the photographer for the writer and
• 37:52
  then we went and shot it and it was not really happening and I was like oh damn
• 37:58
  and then I had just moved into this surf house where I live now and it's like.
• 38:02
  The guy who made this house, he built a small house and then he built around it.
• 38:07
  And he was telling me, he's a dentist, he's a surfer.
• 38:11
  Before everything, he's a surfer, but his career is as a dentist.
• 38:15
  He looks very little as a dentist because he's a surfer, doesn't want to waste too much time.
• 38:20
  But he was saying, yeah, I always wanted to be an artist, I just never dared.
• 38:24
  And I was looking around and the house is full of details.
• 38:29
  He's got a fisherman boat engine in the garden like.
• 38:35
  There's a caravan and there's all those beautiful sculpture like handmade and all the.
• 38:42
  Everything is designed like you know with love and care
• 38:45
  it's not just like okay Ikea there Ikea yeah there is a bit of Ikea but there's
• 38:50
  also like the mix and bringing that personality yeah you know like roof like
• 38:55
  I mean and it was so interesting yeah like and I was like you know I don't think
• 39:01
  you have to be a creative to be an artist.
• 39:03
  I don't think you have to do anything special. You can make bread or you can
• 39:06
  just go out for a walk and you can be an artist in the way you walk out and
• 39:10
  the way you look at things.
• 39:12
  And yeah, being depleted and being really tired on a neutral race or on a neutral
• 39:16
  shoot is definitely helping to find beauty in anything.
• 39:19
  And that's, I was in Rwanda now at the beginning of the year and this is the
• 39:23
  article I've been working on.
• 39:25
  It's quite a beefy article for a ruler.
• 39:28
  And it's really about that like it's really about how how to me,
• 39:34
  that mental state of like being slightly broken just makes everything around you golden and how it's.
• 39:42
  The article is me sharing with somebody why you know the why of those races
• 39:49
  which is a question I had never really figured out myself it was all poetry
• 39:53
  and blah blah blah but I couldn't really understand why are we doing that and I know exactly now like
• 39:58
  Because we become permeable.
• 40:02
  Like our skin, you know, it opens up.
• 40:05
  Our heart opens up. Our eyes see better. And it's all about that.
• 40:09
  Aha! We have a visitor. We have a visitor.
• 40:13
  My cat is here. Yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, you put it so beautifully.
• 40:18
  You're always so poetic. And I love that about you. So everything's so romanticized.
• 40:23
  I cannot even imagine when you are on the ultra level of this emotional, state but yeah we do,
• 40:33
  It's true, it's part of it, you know, to be on that state of mind.
• 40:37
  Yeah. Yeah. Well, when is the article coming out? I love everything you write.
• 40:42
  I don't know, it's been ready forever. But, you know, Hula has like three grand tours to cover.
• 40:49
  That's true. And then there's the worlds. But the worlds are in Rwanda,
• 40:53
  so we want to release the article just before that. Oh.
• 40:57
  Because it's not just about me, for once. It's also, you know, Violet is in it.
• 41:03
  And awesome i need to have her on
• 41:05
  the podcast she was here for traca she's the
• 41:09
  most amazing she's so sweet so talented
• 41:12
  i really want she deserves to
• 41:15
  go to higher higher places yeah yeah yeah she's yeah we were talking about her
• 41:20
  with justinas and he was like dude she's so sweet she makes you feel like a
• 41:24
  bag of dirt you know and i was like well from you justina's like you're one
• 41:27
  of the sweetest guys around so imagine for me who's like you know i've had like
• 41:32
  problems with about half the community of bikepacking.
• 41:35
  I've been a douchebag for so many people.
• 41:39
  Trust me, I don't feel great when I'm in. It's hard to believe that. It's true, though.
• 41:44
  If there's one thing I've learned, and it's funny because Josh told me that
• 41:47
  at the very start, he told me, don't get in conflicts with anyone because it's
• 41:51
  a small world. It always comes back.
• 41:53
  Yeah, but it's also okay to have conflict in a healthy way.
• 41:57
  Have an opinion, discuss ideas. I think everybody's so tired of being canceled
• 42:02
  than because of social media now.
• 42:04
  And it's like, be you. It's okay.
• 42:07
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like, I don't know. I've canceled myself with
• 42:12
  many people. You know, I've been fighting with many people.
• 42:14
  Because if you add the stress of, you know, I came to understand that in life,
• 42:21
  like when you're aggressive or on a defense, it's mostly just fear.
• 42:26
  You're just afraid of not making it. I was afraid of not making it in the cycling
• 42:30
  industry. and in the end, I didn't really make it, you know?
• 42:33
  Like, it never really was a, it's never been a comfortable way of life,
• 42:37
  but I realized that this fear was like, and when I started with surf, I didn't have this fear.
• 42:43
  I was like, I'm going in the water, like going in the water,
• 42:45
  and then the waves are like massive, and I'm like, I'm with people who know I'm not afraid.
• 42:50
  And then it was like, well, I'm just going to try to sell some prints,
• 42:54
  but I didn't really care.
• 42:55
  And then prints were selling, and then this guy came, we made a film,
• 43:00
  and I was like, I've never made a surf film, and now this film is selected in festivals.
• 43:03
  So trying to avoid any kind of fear.
• 43:07
  And it's really interesting because it really, this whole thing of positivity, it really works.
• 43:15
  Positivity definitely works. it's really contagious and the power of thought
• 43:20
  the power of words it's all connected I believe yeah.
• 43:29
  So yeah I mean I feel sorry with many people that I've been arguing with at
• 43:36
  the same time I wouldn't change my position because it was just my position
• 43:40
  and I still stand by it but,
• 43:44
  every time I'm like oh this is artistic integrity i'm not letting go but in
• 43:49
  the end i was like no that was just fear he was just afraid he was just a little
• 43:52
  afraid kid who was like i want to belong i want to be accepted i want to be
• 43:57
  part of a community and he was so scared i was so scared that,
• 44:01
  yeah i got in fights with a lot of people well but look at you now like you
• 44:07
  can look back and have all this awareness it's pretty amazing and if people
• 44:12
  doesn't see that and give you credit,
• 44:15
  they would be silly I think I don't know,
• 44:19
  up to them it's not my responsibility anyways I made mistakes we all make mistakes
• 44:27
  it's the way you say things more than what you say in the end,
• 44:32
  sometimes I'm guilty of that as well,
• 44:36
  I'm a very direct blunt person and that bites me sometimes we're all still learning,
• 44:44
  we're more Latin than the rest of Europe I think yeah.
• 44:51
  Well, I'm excited for the article, not just because of you and for what the
• 44:55
  article is about, but I also love Rwanda. I have a big love for Rwanda as well.
• 45:00
  What an amazing country. Yeah, and it's a lot about Rwanda because Rwanda is
• 45:05
  definitely a country that sees grace in everything after having been through a genocide.
• 45:12
  Yeah, it's unbelievable when you are there. Yeah, I mean, you could forget it.
• 45:18
  Yeah, you could forget it. You could totally, and then, but I,
• 45:22
  yeah, it's a lot about Rwanda and Africa in a broader term, what Africa does.
• 45:30
  And you know, because you've been to migration, you've been to Rwanda, those countries.
• 45:36
  Africa, I don't remember who told me, like, either you have the bug or you don't.
• 45:41
  But, like, if you have the bug, you are, like, drawn back, and you're always coming back.
• 45:48
  I miss Wanda every day a little bit more and I have a very dear friend there
• 45:53
  that I really miss a lot and yeah, there's not a day passing, so the,
• 45:59
  article is, yeah, it's a love letter to distance cycling and to Africa in general and I think that,
• 46:06
  there's this whole thing about yeah, is it cool to be a tourist on a carbon
• 46:10
  bike that is worth the whole life savings of everybody that you cross in Rwanda.
• 46:17
  Is it cool to take a plane and cross the world? But I can do terms with that.
• 46:22
  And I'm like, yeah, it's actually cool.
• 46:23
  Yeah, I think so. It's actually really cool because if you go to Rwanda in your
• 46:27
  plane and you ride your carbon bike, the result is going to be that you're going
• 46:32
  to see something that other people might not see.
• 46:36
  And you're going to see it in a way that other people don't find.
• 46:40
  And you're going to come back with a new appreciation for nature,
• 46:44
  for the planet, for the dangers that we're putting our kids through and stuff like that.
• 46:50
  I don't think that you can really...
• 46:52
  I mean, you probably can get that by staying at home on your couch and watching
• 46:56
  a documentary on Netflix, but I have a hard time believing that.
• 46:58
  I think that's... It's not the same at all. Yeah, going to these places.
• 47:03
  And again, it's the same thing. Ultra does that.
• 47:06
  You will see... And that's what I miss when I go touring. When I go touring, it's more comfortable.
• 47:11
  It's 150k a day. You can start later. You can finish earlier.
• 47:15
  And when I'm touring, I rarely see sunrise and sunset, you know? Really?
• 47:20
  Yeah, no. Oh, yeah, because you're touring, not ultra. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:24
  You're touring, so you're not on a new tour. But when you're on a new tour,
• 47:27
  you're going to see everything. And people are like, oh, why would you cross
• 47:30
  a country at night? And I'm like, well, why not?
• 47:32
  You know? Yeah, but you don't see anything. I'm like, yeah, you don't see, but you see.
• 47:37
  Yeah, you don't see, but you see. You know, like at night in the middle of the
• 47:40
  jungle, maybe you don't see the jungle, but you feel it. But you hear,
• 47:44
  and you feel. So there's other things to experience.
• 47:47
  Yeah, I always feel like there's great things about both.
• 47:52
  And yeah, I feel like I've never really pushed really well enough and really
• 47:59
  committed seriously during a race. I always give myself excuses.
• 48:03
  I always sleep in hotels.
• 48:06
  And now I'm really thinking, I don't care if I trained or not for a race.
• 48:13
  I don't like the idea of training for a race because I'm always scared that
• 48:18
  there's going to be this irony.
• 48:20
  I'm going to train like a madman and then I'm going to have an accident on the
• 48:22
  first day. So I always self-sabotage from the start. I go like.
• 48:26
  Let's have more wine instead.
• 48:28
  And so if the race doesn't go well, well, you didn't really try hard.
• 48:31
  But the next one, I don't care about the training, but I care about what's happening during the race.
• 48:37
  And I'm looking for a project or a race where I can really challenge myself
• 48:43
  and see if I really push up, what happens?
• 48:46
  If I really sleep less, stop less, eat more, and force myself into it, what's going to happen?
• 48:55
  Because there's beauty in that.
• 48:58
  I tried to do that when I was in BikingMan Brazil, but I had an incident, which doesn't matter.
• 49:04
  Yeah, so I stopped because there was a motorcycle guy following me and I got
• 49:08
  scared, so I stopped the race, which it's a shame because I felt in good shape
• 49:13
  and I was doing well and really pushing myself.
• 49:16
  But anyways, what would this race look like for you that you want to try to find?
• 49:22
  Europe, Africa, gravel, what are we talking about?
• 49:28
  I'm definitely not into road cycling anymore at all.
• 49:32
  More and more into gravel, but I'm very picky on gravel. Like I want easy gravel.
• 49:38
  I want Alentejo farm roads like fire roads like this,
• 49:44
  really comfortable but at the same time I've discovered something about cycling
• 49:49
  is that whenever I have to push my bike whenever I cannot ride my bike is usually
• 49:54
  just before reaching one of the most beautiful,
• 49:57
  parts of the ride so I also accept that you know sometimes you can you can go
• 50:02
  on you can on the bike and enjoy that but it would definitely be a Mostly gravel, yeah.
• 50:09
  I don't know, something like Bright Midnight or...
• 50:13
  Badlands, I'm really attracted by Badlands for having photographed it a bit,
• 50:18
  having seen the region it's in.
• 50:20
  Yeah, you know that one quite well. Yeah, I knew it a little bit,
• 50:25
  and I really liked the way it was organized.
• 50:29
  But yeah, something like that, or like migration gravel race or something.
• 50:35
  But migration gravel race is not a new trial.
• 50:38
  Yeah, it's stage. Yeah, I would love to go back.
• 50:41
  Again, if they come back with another ritual like they did when they did Evolution, then I would 100%.
• 50:49
  Yeah, I wanted to do Evolution. It's a shame that it got canceled.
• 50:54
  I really wanted to try that one.
• 50:57
  Maybe we'll come back. It's way too much for Michael.
• 51:01
  Yeah, it's a lot because they have the Safari gravel, then migration,
• 51:05
  then Evolution, one after the other.
• 51:08
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're already super busy.
• 51:12
  But yeah, I think, yeah, I really loved his approach.
• 51:19
  I really love how he does everything he does.
• 51:22
  I met him in London at the Ruler Days or something like that.
• 51:27
  I don't remember what it is. Ruler Life.
• 51:30
  And he's so, so committed. And I was like, how do you do it?
• 51:35
  How do you keep on giving like this?
• 51:38
  And he's like, well, you know, in my other job, like we talk about like conflicts
• 51:42
  and, you know, genocides and I work as a international rights lawyer and things like that.
• 51:48
  So that puts everything in perspective for me.
• 51:51
  It's like, this is a bike race.
• 51:53
  This is a cycling team.
• 51:56
  These are like small problems that I'm going to have to face.
• 51:58
  And he's facing the biggest problems in cycling, like the lack of opportunities for African cyclists.
• 52:05
  But yet, he's still like, that's manageable.
• 52:07
  I can deal with that. I can work it out. So super nice guy.
• 52:12
  Yeah, and they are creating something really amazing. I mean,
• 52:15
  Team Amani has evolved a lot. And it's always so nice to see the team doing well. Yeah.
• 52:24
  Let's see how the worlds in Rwanda are going to also maybe Help in a way,
• 52:29
  but it's hard to believe that UCI could help cycling.
• 52:35
  Yeah, it seems like more a check in the box. We went to that continent. We did something there.
• 52:41
  Yeah. And have you seen the Matthew van der Poel post of the private jet?
• 52:48
  I saw it. I saw Marin getting really mad about it. Yeah.
• 52:52
  And he never posts, so I saw his post as well.
• 52:55
  He got out of his social network cave Where he's never posting You know,
• 53:02
  I have a funny story about Mahan I met him in migration gravel race And we both
• 53:09
  had the exact same kit I'll be on kit And I think it was day two evening,
• 53:15
  Or day three And I washed
• 53:18
  my kit And I put it on the bushes to dry And then I went to check if it was
• 53:23
  dried and then I picked up the bibs and I gave it a sniff and it was my hun's
• 53:29
  bib and he was looking at me so I looked like a crazy woman sniffing the bottom of his bibs,
• 53:36
  and I'm like I thought it was mine I thought it was like I don't know like sometimes
• 53:41
  we try to explain it and it makes it worse,
• 53:43
  yeah it means half of your vocabulary because it's just like completely like
• 53:47
  because we had the same color jersey and same color bibs and we both washed
• 53:52
  and put in the bush you know so I was like oh these are my bibs because he had
• 53:55
  the same color jersey and anyway yeah that was bad.
• 54:00
  He's a good kid he's a super nice guy he's a super super super nice guy He's
• 54:07
  very, it's intimidating how clever he is.
• 54:11
  And it's even more intimidating how little he shows it.
• 54:17
  Yes. He doesn't really. And he's so young. Like, he's wise beyond his ears.
• 54:22
  Yeah. Actually, as well, you know, like you said, for not showing and being so chilled.
• 54:27
  And yeah. I wish he would come on the podcast, but can't get a hold of him. He's off the grid.
• 54:34
  Yeah. Yeah. There's a few people like this that are really hard to get on podcasts.
• 54:40
  Yeah. But I think he's done a few. Yeah.
• 54:45
  I think he's done one with Stefano.
• 54:48
  Okay. For the broom wagon. And I know he did one in France because he's so much
• 54:53
  more comfortable in French, obviously.
• 54:55
  Okay, yeah. I don't remember which one it was. Yeah, I'll try and put it in a good word.
• 55:01
  Yes, please. I would be so grateful. beautiful the girl that sniffed your bibs
• 55:06
  in in africa wants to chat with you,
• 55:10
  she's not smelling your underwear anymore don't worry so you have so many things
• 55:15
  happening as usual you know the
• 55:17
  surf the surf projects a new truck no wine before no wine the night before.
• 55:26
  Well, yeah, I never know what I'm going to do.
• 55:30
  You say I have so many things, but at the moment there is stuff to do and then
• 55:35
  you never know what's next.
• 55:38
  I envy a lot of people who have a nine to five and they know exactly when they're
• 55:43
  on holidays or when it's the weekend and they can unwind.
• 55:46
  And I'm like, the only time I can really unwind or is when I really have to
• 55:50
  is when I'm with my kids and then I refuse to work.
• 55:54
  But like it's really it's really
• 55:56
  tiring how like as a freelance you're never off
• 56:00
  duty you're always that you know yeah it's like
• 56:03
  owning a small business I guess you're always on yeah you can be exchanging
• 56:07
  text messages at 10 o'clock and it's like work is still there and it's still
• 56:11
  stressing you you're like oh do we have this location do we have this do we
• 56:15
  have that like we're shooting tomorrow do we have this lens and so it never stops so,
• 56:21
  yeah I don't really know but definitely hoping to do more of art photography.
• 56:28
  Because when I started surfing, I started taking pictures that I had never seen.
• 56:34
  I hadn't looked at surf pictures in maybe 20 or 30 years.
• 56:40
  And I knew that that was a really good thing about it because you go and you're totally innocent.
• 56:47
  And then I quickly realized that I was taking pictures in a different way.
• 56:52
  Because every surfer that I would take a picture of, they would be like,
• 56:55
  dude, nobody does that. You're filming backwards.
• 56:59
  You're filming from the off side.
• 57:02
  You're filming people from the back. You're filming the moment in between the
• 57:07
  tricks. And it really works.
• 57:09
  And then I started looking at pictures. I was like, oh, okay.
• 57:12
  So that's what I really want to do now.
• 57:16
  For me, it's super cool to not
• 57:18
  work for a client, but work for people directly. So if you sell pictures,
• 57:23
  people buy your pictures directly they don't have a feedback they don't go like
• 57:26
  yeah you know like we think that the brand logo should be more on the right
• 57:30
  and it's true we were wondering if it couldn't be brighter no they don't they
• 57:34
  either buy it or they don't and that's i love that it's the same i tried i tried
• 57:39
  launching a magazine for which i did the podcast after with chris,
• 57:44
  and i and i kind of i had to let it go because
• 57:46
  i was running after money like you know divorcing and all that so like I'm still
• 57:51
  running after money so I can't really do that project but I love the idea of
• 57:55
  like working directly for people not working for a brand not working for a magazine
• 58:01
  just working directly for the people who follow you because I find that it's like the,
• 58:05
  best way to be 100% true to yourself you.
• 58:09
  You cannot not commit when you do that and you
• 58:12
  don't have any compromise in the way whereas like
• 58:15
  if you work for brands like I've been really lucky that i found like
• 58:18
  some brands that were like willing to take risks
• 58:21
  and and and let me do my thing kind of but there's
• 58:24
  not many and i can see now you know for instance
• 58:28
  when i when i shot sophia they could have used my pictures but
• 58:31
  they used pictures from somebody else because these pictures were colored
• 58:34
  and probably you could see the logo better
• 58:37
  you know i had like a dark black and white and you and
• 58:40
  i was just like art you make art and i mean
• 58:43
  people will buy this stuff i i feel like that maybe
• 58:46
  i'm wrong i feel like i will buy this stuff because
• 58:49
  of the story because you know this person kicks ass
• 58:52
  i'm inspired what is he using what is she using it
• 58:55
  but the commercial stuff for me to
• 58:58
  turn off when people are like buy this you know even with
• 59:01
  the podcast like of course i have brands they're sponsoring and
• 59:04
  you know i make some money you get a discount everybody's
• 59:07
  happy but i don't want to be a marketplace right yeah
• 59:11
  i i don't i mean i get it brands need the commercial stuff
• 59:15
  but why can't be artsy yeah why art
• 59:19
  sell as well doesn't have to be obvious with logos
• 59:23
  and yeah and i mean it and
• 59:26
  it's crazy the difference between because like i have
• 59:28
  like you know clients who will buy like a
• 59:31
  print for like 300 jewels and they look at me and
• 59:34
  they're like you know your price is ridiculous right and i'm like you know.
• 59:36
  This is like five times more than what i would do for like an instagram post.
• 59:41
  For a brand or something like that so it's actually really worth to me that's
• 59:45
  a lot and it's it's so funny I had this conversation somebody was like well
• 59:50
  do you value your work do you value yourself do you value and I was like yeah
• 59:53
  but I don't want to be selling.
• 59:56
  Luxurious goods you know I'm
• 59:57
  seeing myself as an artist and not a not a luxury not a luxurious brand,
• 1:00:03
  Because that person challenged me to put a shot online for 7,000 years.
• 1:00:07
  And I was like, okay, I'll do it. And I did. I never sold it.
• 1:00:10
  It's still there in the dark web.
• 1:00:14
  But it's super interesting. The dark web. Yeah, the way we work.
• 1:00:22
  I've been doing this for more than 20 years now.
• 1:00:27
  And it never felt comfortable. you know even like
• 1:00:30
  working in the music business with somebody as big as david
• 1:00:33
  rice like i mean that's massive you know as a kid you're like you
• 1:00:37
  know it was always like oh it looks so
• 1:00:40
  good from the outside like when i send a text message to my friend and
• 1:00:42
  i'm like i'm having a chat with a guy at dustinbury and
• 1:00:45
  just realized it's the bass player from our your friends
• 1:00:48
  are what the hell but you're just like having a chat with
• 1:00:51
  a guy and you know it's cold and you want to
• 1:00:54
  take a piece and it's life and you don't realize you know
• 1:00:57
  and I don't know where I was going with that but yeah no you asked me about
• 1:01:02
  the future I just want to chill you know I just want to do what I do and find
• 1:01:08
  ways to like cut the bullshit that I've been telling myself too much you know where you're like.
• 1:01:17
  When I started like with doing the
• 1:01:20
  podcast the little podcast I did and the magazine you know
• 1:01:23
  publishing online and a little magazine like for free i had
• 1:01:27
  so so much return so many
• 1:01:30
  people were like super helpful yeah i loved it
• 1:01:33
  where do we donate well this is really nice
• 1:01:36
  i want to see edition two and i want to pay for it and even though i wasn't
• 1:01:40
  able to to continue that i realized that like uh working for people working
• 1:01:46
  for your for your community directly is it fills your heart way quicker I think
• 1:01:52
  there's a lot of appreciation, yeah.
• 1:01:54
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's something that I really want to explore in the future.
• 1:02:01
  Yeah, I hope the magazine is just parked and you can pick it up when you have
• 1:02:06
  more time to dedicate to that.
• 1:02:08
  Because it was really good and I'm also happy to contribute. It's amazing work.
• 1:02:13
  And we should all support, you know, I'm all about supporting artists, small businesses.
• 1:02:17
  We need to start changing, you know, the narrative And not just complain,
• 1:02:25
  you know, about capitalism taking over In a sense of like, you know,
• 1:02:30
  Starbucks everywhere Where's the little coffee shop?
• 1:02:33
  Well, the little coffee shop will be here if you don't shop at those other places
• 1:02:35
  And they'll pay an euro more It's not going to change your life,
• 1:02:39
  but it will change your life That this will continue to happen, you know, in a sense Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  And then I don't know anyone who's done it really big.
• 1:02:49
  And I can say with confidence that I know many people, whether it's in music,
• 1:02:55
  writing, filmmaking, I know many people who did really well for themselves.
• 1:02:59
  None of them really actually compromised that much.
• 1:03:04
  Chris has been working for Apple, Patagonia. He's got like 4 million followers on Instagram.
• 1:03:09
  And he was telling me he never really felt like...
• 1:03:13
  Know when when it started being weird for him and
• 1:03:16
  when he started feeling like it was a bit of a compromise he just
• 1:03:19
  made a u-turn and and went the opposite way and
• 1:03:22
  went to like shoot surf in russia instead of hawaii or indo you know and that's
• 1:03:28
  when the brands actually picked it or like or like damien like i mean not many
• 1:03:34
  people know that but he had like a first ban in ireland they were signed by
• 1:03:38
  a major they were about to release.
• 1:03:41
  They were seen as the next big thing and he just looked at the band one day
• 1:03:45
  and he said, I don't feel it.
• 1:03:47
  I don't like the way the industry is. I don't want to make a record like that.
• 1:03:52
  I don't want to sell myself like that.
• 1:03:55
  And he just turned his back to music, went to live in a little farm in Italy,
• 1:04:01
  grown his own vegetables and went to sing in the village, like busking, like on the street.
• 1:04:08
  He's so brave, though, to turn away from money and be authentic.
• 1:04:12
  He came back one year later.
• 1:04:13
  One year later, he came back. He had an album. He recorded it casually.
• 1:04:17
  He paid the musicians himself or made them a deal.
• 1:04:23
  I mean, it's super funny because they recorded in his house,
• 1:04:26
  and the album went platinum in the next while.
• 1:04:31
  And yeah, you've got to believe, one of the musicians, the bass player,
• 1:04:36
  So Damien went to him and he's like, okay, so there's two.
• 1:04:39
  Either I pay the session and it's like, say, a hundred bucks or I give you a
• 1:04:44
  percentage on the album.
• 1:04:45
  All the band went for the percentage and the bass player was like,
• 1:04:49
  fuck that, I want my money now. And he was like, fair enough.
• 1:04:52
  Here's a hundred bucks, record the bass.
• 1:04:55
  Wow. And then one year later, the guy is like... Fuck, I did a mistake.
• 1:05:00
  Yeah, but Damien changed it. He gave him a percentage. He was like, dude. Okay, nice.
• 1:05:06
  You know, because it was Ireland like maybe 25 years ago, you know,
• 1:05:13
  like the people were like so struggling.
• 1:05:15
  Like in Ireland, they don't even leave their family house until they get married
• 1:05:19
  and they're like 35 sometimes still living with their parents. I met him,
• 1:05:24
  And he invited me to his house and I was like expecting, you know,
• 1:05:27
  a villa, a swimming pool, cocaine, models, and pain.
• 1:05:31
  And I came to this like very, like a poor suburb in Dublin, like,
• 1:05:39
  it's not poor, but, you know, really middle class.
• 1:05:42
  Simple. And I knocked at the door and a little woman opened with her dog and
• 1:05:46
  she was like, hey, you must be Damien's friend. And I was like, what the hell?
• 1:05:49
  And she's like, he's in his room, I'll show you the way. And I'm like, he lives with his mom?
• 1:05:56
  And he just made it in music. He'd just come back from the American tour and
• 1:06:00
  he lives with his mom. I was like, wow.
• 1:06:02
  And he told me he just couldn't spend money. He had a hard time with being rich.
• 1:06:09
  He was like, I didn't change my clothes. I didn't change anything.
• 1:06:12
  And then one day he went to town. He bought a bike and then he felt free on
• 1:06:17
  a bike and then bought a car.
• 1:06:19
  And then the next day he bought a house for his sister, a house for himself.
• 1:06:23
  And then he enjoyed a bit of his money.
• 1:06:27
  But that took him, I think, three or four years before he even could touch it.
• 1:06:32
  Yeah, probably. I don't know. Just wanted to make sure he was a little bit more
• 1:06:36
  solid. And also the cultural thing of being with your parents.
• 1:06:39
  Maybe it wasn't something that he would right away leave.
• 1:06:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just didn't change. He was totally unchanged.
• 1:06:47
  He was still playing in the streets every now and then.
• 1:06:52
  Love that. I've seen him finishing concerts, going outside and playing for like
• 1:06:57
  25 people that are just waiting there to get an autograph.
• 1:07:00
  And he's like, I'm not signing autographs, but how about we have a little gig by ourselves?
• 1:07:05
  Nice. That happened to me with Seu Jorge, a Brazilian singer.
• 1:07:10
  I saw him in New York. He played Central Park. And then I had a friend of mine,
• 1:07:15
  he's like, oh, we're going to go to the...
• 1:07:18
  He knew him or knew someone on the band. Yeah. And then, yeah,
• 1:07:21
  he was just playing there with like 10 of us. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is insane.
• 1:07:26
  This is really cool. I love when artists do that. Because, I mean,
• 1:07:30
  not that others don't love their craft, but there's so much passion, you know?
• 1:07:34
  Like you just finish a concert and you still want to play and be a little bit
• 1:07:38
  in a small gathering with some of your fans. That's really cool.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah, so this is good memories.
• 1:07:45
  Well, I'm really excited to cheer you on when you take your next race,
• 1:07:51
  be it bright midnight, badlands, or whatever comes your way that you want to give it a good go.
• 1:08:01
  And I'll be on the lookout for the Rolaire article as well. And I'm waiting
• 1:08:05
  for you here because you're going to the bike adventure.
• 1:08:10
  Yes, yes.
• 1:08:13
  I liked actually visiting Girona. I was on the defensive.
• 1:08:20
  I was like, yeah, but the influencers and all that. And actually,
• 1:08:23
  I met some of the influencers and I was like, that's super cool.
• 1:08:26
  I didn't expect that. and then you have a coffee
• 1:08:30
  and then there's a pro and they're more chill
• 1:08:32
  than we think they are the the people around
• 1:08:35
  us we're all often like scared of status and
• 1:08:39
  stuff like that but it's actually it doesn't mean anything the pros are one
• 1:08:42
  of the nicest i think like every time i ride in girona you always cross a pro
• 1:08:50
  always doesn't matter what time of the year what time of the day you always
• 1:08:54
  cross a pro and the pros always say hi or that cycling wave you know,
• 1:08:59
  always there's not one pro that doesn't say hi no yeah I've seen that in Spain
• 1:09:05
  I remember there was a girl from Jumbo Visma and I was there with my loaded
• 1:09:09
  bike and he passed and he said hi and then he went for his crazy speed up the
• 1:09:15
  mountain but there was absolutely no,
• 1:09:18
  no smug effect absolutely not,
• 1:09:21
  That's really cool. Yeah. This is a good thing to experience here,
• 1:09:25
  to see, yeah, they're normal, you know, like nobody's a snob or anything, generally speaking.
• 1:09:34
  All right. Cool. Well, that was fun. Nice to catch up.
• 1:09:40
  It's a good excuse to have a podcast. We get to just chat. Love it.
• 1:09:43
  Yeah. And you are welcome here anytime.
• 1:09:46
  Oh, thank you. Really appreciate you. you well and yeah congrats on everything
• 1:09:52
  you're doing and how great it's developing i mean you,
• 1:09:56
  were talking about the the brands and and
• 1:09:59
  and all that but like um yeah i find it
• 1:10:02
  super impressive and then and i was actually super happy when i saw that you
• 1:10:06
  had brands i didn't i didn't see it but more like wow like this podcast just
• 1:10:11
  started and it was i know it was not easy and i know like you had to keep it
• 1:10:16
  and you went through quite some chaos too and,
• 1:10:21
  really proud of you because it's amazing and you get all those amazing people
• 1:10:26
  to come and now if you can sustain yourself a little bit with it,
• 1:10:30
  I'm really, really happy for you.
• 1:10:32
  Thank you. I'm going to get emotional. Thank you so much. It's my baby.
• 1:10:36
  I'm having a lot of fun and I'm always in awe that people are listening and enjoying it.
• 1:10:41
  I'm also happy to get feedback on what i could do better like
• 1:10:45
  we are we all have our blind spots but yeah i just just hope people keep on
• 1:10:50
  and you know enjoying and listening cool cool well i see you soon will do always
• 1:10:57
  cool to see you and yeah if you if you're coming to portugal you let me know absolutely and uh yeah.
• 1:11:05
  Likewise thank you so much ciao bye-bye and that's all for today's episode i
• 1:11:12
  want to thank Thank the listeners for tuning in. Your support means everything.
• 1:11:16
  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider following, leaving a review,
• 1:11:20
  and sharing it with your friends.
• 1:11:26
  Music.