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The Link Between Misogyny and Gun Violence · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
0:07
Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. Yeah,
0:18
Speaker 1: and today I don't have any questions for you. Annie,
0:22
Speaker 1: I feel like our topic matter it's a little too
0:25
Speaker 1: serious for me to ask a flip of question in general,
0:28
Speaker 1: even though you know we don't want to take life
0:31
Speaker 1: too seriously, there's a lot going on in the world
0:33
Speaker 1: that we can't ignore. Um and this is one of
0:35
Speaker 1: those topics that we just can't ignore. Just go ahead
0:38
Speaker 1: and give you this trigger warning. We are taking a
0:40
Speaker 1: look at the connections between misogyny, toxic masculinity, domestic violence,
0:44
Speaker 1: and mass shooting, specifically mass shootings and how they are
0:48
Speaker 1: studying it and researching it. And we want to go
0:50
Speaker 1: ahead and let you know we're not going to talk
0:52
Speaker 1: about specific incidents necessarily, we're not going to detail about that,
0:56
Speaker 1: but we're going into a lot of the background research
0:59
Speaker 1: and then a heavy topic. So go ahead and get
1:03
Speaker 1: add this to the top of Like, Ah, you may
1:04
Speaker 1: not want to feel like listening to this one today.
1:08
Speaker 1: You know you've had too much and you just need
1:09
Speaker 1: some lighthearted content. This is not it. But yeah, this
1:15
Speaker 1: is a very large topic with a lot of social
1:17
Speaker 1: implications and for the most part we will be focusing
1:21
Speaker 1: more in the US. So just to let you know
1:24
Speaker 1: these numbers, and if we're not being clear, yeah, this
1:27
Speaker 1: is mainly incidents in the United States, um, and the
1:30
Speaker 1: incidents that have happened here. And we're gonna start off
1:33
Speaker 1: with misogyny, which is something we speak on pretty frequently,
1:37
Speaker 1: but we thought it would be good to go ahead
1:38
Speaker 1: and do it, you know, schoolhouse rock level of view
1:41
Speaker 1: of what it means exactly, even with the etymology of it.
1:44
Speaker 1: But I'm not singing this time, Okay, I can't figure
1:47
Speaker 1: out a song for this. So so according to Miriam Webster,
1:50
Speaker 1: it means a hatred of or a version two or
1:53
Speaker 1: a prejudice against women. Pretty simple. Um. And just to
1:57
Speaker 1: go a bit further, this is similar to sexism. It
2:00
Speaker 1: is very specific towards discriminatory attitude towards women and the
2:04
Speaker 1: Greek roots scene which means to hate and gene which
2:08
Speaker 1: means woman, and the other side to that would be massagery,
2:12
Speaker 1: which is hatred of men. So there you go. You
2:16
Speaker 1: get a great wedding. Okay, I'm gonna stop, Yes, my
2:21
Speaker 1: big wedding, So there you go. I actually haven't seen that,
2:25
Speaker 1: and I actually got called out for it recently on
2:28
Speaker 1: the other podcasts I do savor because I mentioned it.
2:30
Speaker 1: We did an episode where bunk Cake and apparently, but
2:33
Speaker 1: but but apparently there's a joke about it. I know
2:38
Speaker 1: it very clearly. I know exactly what you're talking about.
2:41
Speaker 1: Should have come to you, I knew it well. Moving
2:45
Speaker 1: on next, we wanted to have a definition of masculinity,
2:49
Speaker 1: and the simple definition of that is quote the quality
2:52
Speaker 1: or nature of the male sex, the quality state our
2:54
Speaker 1: degree of being masculine or manly. Again, this is from
2:57
Speaker 1: Miriam Webster. And though masculine in itself is not a
3:01
Speaker 1: bad thing at all, and as we've been talking about
3:03
Speaker 1: this as a descriptor in any gender, when it comes
3:05
Speaker 1: to the more harmful ideals behind the importance of masculinity,
3:08
Speaker 1: there are subset terms that are important to know, like
3:11
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity, which is something we talk about often on
3:15
Speaker 1: this show too, especially when we talk about the dangers
3:16
Speaker 1: of the extreme pressures a man may feel to be
3:19
Speaker 1: overtly aggressively showing their manliness. According to very well mind
3:24
Speaker 1: dot com, there are many different definitions of toxic masculinity,
3:26
Speaker 1: but a few researchers have agreed there are three core components. Toughness,
3:31
Speaker 1: or the idea that a man should be physically strong
3:33
Speaker 1: and without emotion or callous and perhaps even act aggressive,
3:36
Speaker 1: our macho power, meaning that men should obtain power or
3:39
Speaker 1: seek to have power over others in order to gain respect,
3:43
Speaker 1: and that they should reject any and everything that can
3:46
Speaker 1: be deemed feminine, like showing emotions or empathy. And then
3:50
Speaker 1: there is hegemonic masculinity. And here we're talking about the
3:53
Speaker 1: deeper idea that men should be the more dominant of
3:56
Speaker 1: sexes in society, originally coined by our W. Connell's. The
4:00
Speaker 1: theory is that it is quote a prevailing construct of
4:02
Speaker 1: masculinity as a social class that dominates women. And according
4:07
Speaker 1: to one research paper covering hegemonic masculinity and gun legislation,
4:10
Speaker 1: the quote ideal hegemonic man is wealthy, physically strong, heterosexual,
4:15
Speaker 1: middle age, educated, unemotional, independent, and white. Uh. And it
4:20
Speaker 1: doesn't just affect women, but also obviously affects other men
4:24
Speaker 1: also because it requires the domination of men by other
4:27
Speaker 1: men in order to rise in the hierarchy. So it's
4:30
Speaker 1: kind of like there can only be one and of course,
4:34
Speaker 1: according to the same research, this goal and theory is
4:37
Speaker 1: unattainable obviously, so add to this the level of trying
4:41
Speaker 1: to get to this point but being frustrated because there's
4:44
Speaker 1: no way to actually reach it. And then also in
4:47
Speaker 1: cel and though this is not necessarily about masculinity, we
4:50
Speaker 1: wanted to throw this definition out there. We did dedicate
4:53
Speaker 1: a whole episode about it. We are going to briefly
4:56
Speaker 1: mention specific incidents or at least a little bit of
4:58
Speaker 1: the research that involves and cels wanting to get to
5:01
Speaker 1: the definition as a brush up for everyone. So but
5:04
Speaker 1: if you want to hear more about it and the culture,
5:06
Speaker 1: you should go listen to our episode. And according to
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Speaker 1: Marion Webster, it is quote a person, usually a man,
5:11
Speaker 1: who regards himself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses
5:16
Speaker 1: extreme resentment and hostility towards those who are sexually active.
5:20
Speaker 1: And then for more focused definition to specific incidents, like
5:24
Speaker 1: we said we're gonna talking about later. This term is
5:26
Speaker 1: quote emerged from a Reddit group in which tens of
5:29
Speaker 1: thousands of users, most of them young men, commiserate about
5:32
Speaker 1: their lack of sexual activity, many of them placing the
5:35
Speaker 1: blame on women and express rage at women denying them sex,
5:39
Speaker 1: and he frequently fantasized about violence. And then there is
5:44
Speaker 1: mass shooting. So you know, this one may seem obvious,
5:47
Speaker 1: but there are many varying definitions and different statistics that
5:50
Speaker 1: are used to classify mass shooting. So here's a couple
5:53
Speaker 1: that will help with our discussion for the episode today.
5:56
Speaker 1: According to dictionary dot com, it is a quote single
5:59
Speaker 1: incident involving the shooting with one or more firearms of
6:01
Speaker 1: a number of people more than two and typically a
6:03
Speaker 1: large number, especially when the victims are random. But not
6:07
Speaker 1: all organizations and statistics rely on these numbers. Many argue
6:10
Speaker 1: that it needs to be at least four victims and
6:12
Speaker 1: not to so some of the findings we talked about
6:14
Speaker 1: will be referring to that number as the definition, and
6:16
Speaker 1: we we'll talk about it a bit more. But with
6:18
Speaker 1: this definition, there are qualifications that are part of what
6:21
Speaker 1: is considered a mass shooting. So, according to one report
6:25
Speaker 1: by CNN, there's been at least two hundred and seventy
6:28
Speaker 1: two mass shootings this year, and according to Gun Violence Archive,
6:33
Speaker 1: that is at increase from twenty twenty and sixty five
6:37
Speaker 1: jump from twenty nineteen and CNN is defining mass shooting
6:41
Speaker 1: as four or more people who are shot, but that
6:43
Speaker 1: also doesn't include the actual shooter or perpetrator, and the
6:46
Speaker 1: numbers above again include all shootings that could include drive
6:49
Speaker 1: by shootings and have shot at least four people. However,
6:53
Speaker 1: the statistics for Every Town for Gun Safety reports that
6:57
Speaker 1: because of the variation, once again, as we said earlier,
7:00
Speaker 1: the definition of mass shootings, the counts differ from a
7:04
Speaker 1: range of a dozen per year to one mass shooting
7:07
Speaker 1: per day. The numbers are all over the place, but
7:10
Speaker 1: it depends on different factors and their definitions. But for
7:14
Speaker 1: every town, they also may look at, quote, the high
7:17
Speaker 1: number of casualties and often extensive and horrific media coverage
7:21
Speaker 1: associated with them, and some even make talk about the
7:24
Speaker 1: fact that it was out of nowhere, as in as
7:28
Speaker 1: if it was a workplace shooting, or what happened with Atlanta,
7:31
Speaker 1: the Atlanta massacre where he just drove through and it
7:34
Speaker 1: didn't happen at one place, but it was done by
7:37
Speaker 1: one person and with multiple victims. So there are a
7:40
Speaker 1: lot of arguments about these numbers. Yes, and because this
7:45
Speaker 1: organization is looking to make changes within federal and state policies.
7:48
Speaker 1: They also look into pecific trends that are often associated
7:51
Speaker 1: with mass shootings, including perpetrated by someone who is legally
7:54
Speaker 1: prohibited from possessing a firearm, perpetrated by someone who displayed
7:57
Speaker 1: prior warning signs, intermingled with access to the violence, and
8:00
Speaker 1: far deadlier when they involve assault weapons and high capacity magazines.
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Speaker 1: And with these trains and specified definition, the Everytown organization
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Speaker 1: or website shows that there have been two hund forty
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Speaker 1: mass shootings from two thousand nine to twenty which includes
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Speaker 1: the deaths of at least one thousand, three hundred and
8:15
Speaker 1: sixty three people. So if we look at the perpetrators,
8:21
Speaker 1: not surprisingly when we were talking about mass shooters, the
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Speaker 1: majority of the perpetrators are white men. According to Satista
8:27
Speaker 1: dot com as of May one, at least fifty of
8:30
Speaker 1: the perpetrators of mass shootings from twenty one or white only,
8:35
Speaker 1: were committed by African Americans and only eight percent, respectively,
8:38
Speaker 1: committed by Asian, Latino or Native American populations. And according
8:42
Speaker 1: to the same site, men make up at least ninety
8:44
Speaker 1: six percent of the shootings. Right, and yes, women are
8:47
Speaker 1: often the victims more than have the women that die
8:50
Speaker 1: in gunshot are typically domestic violence related. Gun violence of
8:53
Speaker 1: the fifth leading depth for women ages eighteen to forty four.
8:57
Speaker 1: American women are sixteen time is more likely to be
9:01
Speaker 1: killed by gun violence than any other developed nation. And yeah,
9:05
Speaker 1: this actually doesn't necessarily include a femicide. Uh, And we've
9:08
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about it this before. That's a
9:11
Speaker 1: whole other topic is included. But it's not just those numbers,
9:14
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Again, this is not outside of
9:17
Speaker 1: the US, so that the numbers are were obviously much
9:19
Speaker 1: higher and the types of killings are much higher, but
9:22
Speaker 1: specifically we're looking at gun violence in the US for
9:25
Speaker 1: this number, for these numbers, right, and now, why are
9:30
Speaker 1: we talking about misogyny, toxic masculinity, and patriarchy in relation
9:33
Speaker 1: to mass shootings and gun violence. Well, because the studies
9:36
Speaker 1: show the links between them and we cannot ignore that.
9:40
Speaker 1: And when looking more closely at some of the cases,
9:42
Speaker 1: studies have found at crimes such as domestic violence we're
9:45
Speaker 1: asking talking and sexual violence often are linked to or
9:48
Speaker 1: have been a precedent to those who are most likely
9:51
Speaker 1: to commit mass shooting. I know we've seen that conversation
9:54
Speaker 1: playing out a lot recently, according to a mother Jones report,
9:58
Speaker 1: they said that they have found many cases which show
10:01
Speaker 1: a history of quote in cell like ideals as well
10:03
Speaker 1: as their hallmarks of the culture which the perpetrators often
10:06
Speaker 1: quote voiced their region ravenge fantasies on against women online,
10:10
Speaker 1: and many of the victims were specifically targeted within these rants.
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Speaker 1: Looking at some specific cases, they say the shooters and
10:17
Speaker 1: tell asked to Chicago, Orlando, Southern Springs and elsewhere brutalized
10:21
Speaker 1: women long before their gun rampages, and that they often
10:24
Speaker 1: give off quote multiple behavioral warning signs that are observable
10:27
Speaker 1: to people around them. A majority do so starting months
10:30
Speaker 1: and even years before their attacks, right, And this is
10:33
Speaker 1: where we talk about the Reddit showing a lot of
10:36
Speaker 1: this conversation happening, and they've have been able to pinpoint
10:39
Speaker 1: a lot of the individuals within those organizations. And in
10:43
Speaker 1: each of these cases there have been reports of domestic violence,
10:46
Speaker 1: avert threats of violence harassing women and one specific case
10:49
Speaker 1: was actually groping and inappropriate physical harassment that had been
10:53
Speaker 1: a many complaints whether he had touched people inappropriately and
10:56
Speaker 1: then they were on his target list. And then we
10:58
Speaker 1: know that recently an actual all plot had been thwarted,
11:01
Speaker 1: but on his list were women that he felt had
11:05
Speaker 1: denied him and or had a list of women that
11:07
Speaker 1: he wanted to rape, and he actually had all of
11:10
Speaker 1: those weapons ready to go, but someone was able to
11:13
Speaker 1: catch the warning signs and prevent some happening. But the
11:16
Speaker 1: fact that it does happen quite often is very alarming,
11:20
Speaker 1: even though unsurprising, And whether it is a loss of
11:24
Speaker 1: control over a marriage or relationship, or feeling of rejection
11:27
Speaker 1: or humiliation, there is a link between the need to
11:30
Speaker 1: reassert some level of control and power that seemed to
11:33
Speaker 1: play out in most of these deadly and violent situations.
11:36
Speaker 1: And it's not a stress to see the effects of
11:38
Speaker 1: toxic and hegemonic masculinity within those who have committed such crocities.
11:43
Speaker 1: When we talk about gun and gun culture, it is
11:45
Speaker 1: often steaked with masculine leanings which can quickly turn to
11:49
Speaker 1: toxic and hegemonic masculine leanings right. In fact, on studies
11:52
Speaker 1: showed how guns can actually be a symbol of hegemonic masculinity.
11:56
Speaker 1: In the study, researcher Angela. Stroud interviewed men with concealed
11:59
Speaker 1: weapon sence is to analyze these ideas and she found
12:02
Speaker 1: similar themes in their reason She breaks it down like
12:05
Speaker 1: this performance of masculinity, which includes the family defender, which
12:09
Speaker 1: is the top reason for gun ownership, and the quote
12:12
Speaker 1: aging male body, which is the idea that they never
12:14
Speaker 1: want to be victims and if they feel they are
12:16
Speaker 1: quote lacking fisical strength, a gun becomes the great equalizer.
12:22
Speaker 1: And that phrase the great equalizer may be familiar as
12:25
Speaker 1: it's been quoted within movies the media before, which may
12:27
Speaker 1: be part of the link as it's often betrayed in
12:30
Speaker 1: media as the hero fantasy to save the day or
12:33
Speaker 1: get revenge fantasy. Had a really interesting conversation about this
12:38
Speaker 1: with some friends from Europe once, where they I think
12:41
Speaker 1: I've told the story before because it stands out to
12:43
Speaker 1: me so sharply. But we saw inglorious pastors together and
12:46
Speaker 1: it was differencing in Europe for a lot of reasons,
12:51
Speaker 1: but one of them after was there like you Americans
12:54
Speaker 1: and your gun violence in your movies, like we you
12:56
Speaker 1: won't show drugs are sex, but yeah, just kill all
13:01
Speaker 1: these people and still like you're the hero of the story. Yeah,
13:06
Speaker 1: I guess so bad you right, Okay, I gotta think
13:11
Speaker 1: about some things for media I consume, and not surprisingly,
13:16
Speaker 1: organizations use these themes as a way to control the
13:19
Speaker 1: narrative for the need of guns and linking it to
13:22
Speaker 1: measures of masculinity and another study, Scott Melzer, states that
13:26
Speaker 1: the n A uses what he calls frontier masculinity, which
13:29
Speaker 1: includes self reliance, rugged individualism, and a strong work ethic.
13:34
Speaker 1: The n r A bolster support to their cause and
13:36
Speaker 1: this type of marketing continues the narrative that this is
13:39
Speaker 1: the way to hold their ground, which is another phrase
13:41
Speaker 1: we hear often in this country, in a way to
13:44
Speaker 1: protect what is theirs right. So essentially this is kind
13:47
Speaker 1: of the idea of the old cowboys, Western cawboys defending
13:51
Speaker 1: their home, which, by the way, that's not how that
13:53
Speaker 1: went down. I'm sure all of you already know this,
13:56
Speaker 1: but that kind of narrative is what pushes us forward
13:59
Speaker 1: and thinking at guns main men. But there have been
14:02
Speaker 1: jokes about you know, what does the gun represent for
14:05
Speaker 1: the man? What is that anatomy? But it is something
14:08
Speaker 1: that we need to look at like we may joke
14:10
Speaker 1: about it, but the actuality is it has become such
14:13
Speaker 1: a way of measuring one's uh strength. Is how many
14:17
Speaker 1: guns or if you've got a gun. So that's really
14:19
Speaker 1: scary to think on. And when we see the mere
14:22
Speaker 1: campaign to continue to bolster sales for guns and armed weapons,
14:25
Speaker 1: it's not hard to see the marketing techniques used within
14:27
Speaker 1: these campaigns and how it influences those who measure their
14:30
Speaker 1: mainliness to their weapons and ability to quote protect, which
14:34
Speaker 1: fits in nicely when the narratives of the many of
14:36
Speaker 1: those who would claim they are killing out of fear
14:38
Speaker 1: or need for protection or maybe justice, which we've heard
14:42
Speaker 1: that a lot. Of course, this could lead us to
14:46
Speaker 1: talking about why there seems to be a gender line
14:48
Speaker 1: when it comes to the debate of gun control in
14:51
Speaker 1: this country, but that is a whole other episode which
14:53
Speaker 1: we will revisit. So how does all of this lead
15:10
Speaker 1: to mass shootings? Um? Well, what we see when a
15:13
Speaker 1: perpetrator feels emasculated or wrong because of a loss of
15:15
Speaker 1: power is what can be known as aggrieved entitlement, which
15:18
Speaker 1: means these perpetrators feel wronged by the world and they
15:22
Speaker 1: transformed that ager into revenge and they believe that quote
15:25
Speaker 1: they can regain this through mass violence against the enemy
15:28
Speaker 1: are those whom they feel have wronged them. According to
15:31
Speaker 1: a study, completed by Rachel Kalish and Michael Kimmel. And
15:34
Speaker 1: this specific study came from suicide by mass shooting, and
15:38
Speaker 1: so they went through this whole narrative. But this is
15:41
Speaker 1: what they were trying to bring out, like, this is
15:43
Speaker 1: maybe a reason and we need to look about this
15:45
Speaker 1: entitlement as well as masculinity, right, and yeah, again, this
15:52
Speaker 1: is the result of feeling a loss of superiority and
15:55
Speaker 1: trying to regain power of control. And in a study
15:58
Speaker 1: titled Masculine Threat, Massage, Me, and the Celebration of Violence
16:01
Speaker 1: and White Men by Maria Scaptura, she talks about a
16:03
Speaker 1: level of white entitlement that factors into perpetrators of mass
16:07
Speaker 1: shootings and states since white entitlement often protects white men
16:10
Speaker 1: from systemic disenfranchisement, these individuals are often unable to emotionally
16:14
Speaker 1: process everyday setbacks like bullying, being passed over for a job, etcetera.
16:19
Speaker 1: When their privileges no longer guarantees them status or success,
16:22
Speaker 1: they are unable to cope and more likely to externalize
16:25
Speaker 1: blame for their outcomes. Right. So there's a lot of
16:28
Speaker 1: conversation of why they may do this, and of course
16:32
Speaker 1: there are studies upon studies upon studies about what this
16:36
Speaker 1: looks like in relation to gun control in relation to
16:40
Speaker 1: domestic violence that are all very separate that could come together,
16:44
Speaker 1: and it's slowly coming together. As we talked about it again,
16:47
Speaker 1: that one report from Kellition KIMIL came from two thousand
16:51
Speaker 1: ten and this current one from SCAPTA was in twenty nineteen,
16:55
Speaker 1: and they continues to be studies. And we know that
16:57
Speaker 1: Bloomberg did a giant study in twenty when it comes
16:59
Speaker 1: to matt shootings and domestic violence. And we have another
17:02
Speaker 1: new one that came from the Etymology from every Town
17:06
Speaker 1: that came out in as well. So there's a lot
17:08
Speaker 1: of conversation about how to link these and what is important.
17:12
Speaker 1: And again we talked about it earlier about gun control
17:14
Speaker 1: and gun violence and whether the CDC had would be
17:17
Speaker 1: able to intervene, and they have so slowly started researching
17:20
Speaker 1: what is happening, even with it being contested by other lobbyists.
17:25
Speaker 1: But okay, but we also wanted to talk about this
17:28
Speaker 1: in linking to domestic violence. Uh. And we already mentioned
17:32
Speaker 1: some of the stats linking to mess shootings in domestic violence,
17:34
Speaker 1: but we wanted to pull up some specific statistics before
17:37
Speaker 1: we dig a bit deeper in the correlation. But first,
17:41
Speaker 1: what is domestic violence? According to the National Coalition Against
17:44
Speaker 1: Domestic Violence or in z A d V, it is
17:47
Speaker 1: quote the willful intimidation, physical assault, battery, sexual assault, and
17:52
Speaker 1: or other abusive behavior as part of a systematic pattern
17:55
Speaker 1: of power and control perpetrated by one intimate partner against another.
18:00
Speaker 1: It includes physical violence, sexual violence, threats, economic and emotional
18:05
Speaker 1: psychological abuse, yes, and um. According to the n c
18:09
Speaker 1: A d V, more than ten million adults experienced domestic
18:12
Speaker 1: violence annually. One in four women and one in ten
18:15
Speaker 1: men experienced some type of IPv or intimate partner violence
18:18
Speaker 1: in their lifetime. From through twenty eighteen, the number of
18:21
Speaker 1: intimate partner violence victimizations in the US increased. In partner
18:26
Speaker 1: violence accounted for twenty of all violent crime. Intimate partner
18:31
Speaker 1: violence is the most common against women between the ages
18:33
Speaker 1: of eighteen to twenty four. Nine of intimate partner violence
18:37
Speaker 1: involves a weapon, and about four point five million women
18:40
Speaker 1: have reported that they have been threatened with a gun
18:42
Speaker 1: by their intimate partners. Right and going specifically into intimate
18:47
Speaker 1: partner deaths within the statistics, the n c A d
18:50
Speaker 1: v stays. One in two female murder victims and one
18:53
Speaker 1: in ten male murder victims are killed by intimate partners
18:57
Speaker 1: and abusers. Access to firearm increases the risk of an
19:00
Speaker 1: intimate partner femicide by four of all murder suicides are
19:06
Speaker 1: perpetrated by intimate partners. Of murder suicide victims are female.
19:12
Speaker 1: Abusers who have access to firearms increase the risk of
19:15
Speaker 1: intimate partner femicide at least fivefold, and when firearms have
19:19
Speaker 1: been used in the most severe abuse incidents, the risk
19:22
Speaker 1: increases to forty one fold, so pretty significantly. And while
19:26
Speaker 1: the overall rate of intimate partner has decreased, intimate partner
19:30
Speaker 1: femicide has increased in recent years, driven by an increase
19:34
Speaker 1: in intimate partner femicide committed with a firearm. So there's
19:39
Speaker 1: been a lot of conversation about what state and what
19:42
Speaker 1: legislation is actually doing something about trying to take away
19:45
Speaker 1: firearms and or at least getting some kind of control
19:48
Speaker 1: because many of the states don't have strict policies for
19:53
Speaker 1: those who have been involved in domestic violence cases because
19:56
Speaker 1: of how often it gets dismissed, how often it gets
19:59
Speaker 1: uh taken back so if they decided to dismiss charges
20:03
Speaker 1: or take back the charges, or even just timing, it
20:07
Speaker 1: takes time to even get these cases. It takes years.
20:10
Speaker 1: And then of course we've also seen those cases where
20:12
Speaker 1: I believe it was in Florida where the woman was
20:14
Speaker 1: in fear for our life and because she couldn't get
20:18
Speaker 1: a t p O or a rustrating order rather protective order,
20:21
Speaker 1: she went and took his guns and turned them into
20:23
Speaker 1: the police and she got arrested for burglary. Right, So
20:27
Speaker 1: we have incidents like that that makes it concerning. Yeah, yes,
20:31
Speaker 1: And then we did want to talk about corollary victims
20:34
Speaker 1: who are family members or those close to the intimate
20:37
Speaker 1: partners somehow involved in the case, such as police officers
20:39
Speaker 1: or emergency personnel. A study of intimate partner homicides found
20:44
Speaker 1: of victims were family members or friends of the abuse partner, neighbors,
20:48
Speaker 1: persons who intervened, law enforcement responders, or by standards, and
20:51
Speaker 1: a quarter of those victims are seventeen years or younger.
20:54
Speaker 1: Within those numbers, half of the coillary victims were miners
20:57
Speaker 1: and family members. In seventy percent of them were killed
21:01
Speaker 1: with firearms, and more than that we're killed within their residence.
21:05
Speaker 1: That's something that we need to understand as a part
21:07
Speaker 1: of the mass shootings because oftentimes that's who gets caught
21:10
Speaker 1: up and the multiple victims are the with the main target.
21:13
Speaker 1: So oftentimes we read that children, the children of the
21:18
Speaker 1: target are part of the victims as well, and that's
21:21
Speaker 1: in within the mass shooting victims statistics as well. So
21:26
Speaker 1: what is this correlation of domestic violence and mass shooters?
21:29
Speaker 1: And I think a majority of you probably already know,
21:31
Speaker 1: and it is really big right now because that one
21:34
Speaker 1: big study that has recently just come out. But according
21:37
Speaker 1: to those studies, is now verified that at least six
21:40
Speaker 1: of the mass shootings were committed by someone who's been
21:43
Speaker 1: in the justice system for some type of domestic violence
21:46
Speaker 1: offense between the years of seventeen. And with that, it
21:50
Speaker 1: is now verified that two out of three mass shootings
21:52
Speaker 1: are linked to a domestic violence incident. And within those
21:57
Speaker 1: statistics there is a higher rate of fatalities than with
22:00
Speaker 1: mass shootings unrelated to DV. According to that research, one
22:03
Speaker 1: in six people survive if there's a domestic violence isn't
22:06
Speaker 1: it or some kind of element involved, compared to one
22:09
Speaker 1: in three for non DV related shootings. In several of
22:13
Speaker 1: the high profile mass shooting cases, there have been details
22:15
Speaker 1: of some type of domestic or intimate partner violence, cases
22:19
Speaker 1: like the Pulse nightclub shooting, the Texas shirt shooting in
22:21
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, the Plano, Texas shooting that killed eight people
22:25
Speaker 1: including the shooters estranged wife, the Colorado Spring shooting, and
22:28
Speaker 1: so many others that continue to haunt these communities. There
22:32
Speaker 1: were reports of past police or court involvement, but yeah,
22:35
Speaker 1: not completely seen as part of the warnings until until
22:37
Speaker 1: pretty recently. I mean, some of us have definitely been
22:40
Speaker 1: sounding the l arm, like why don't we seem to
22:42
Speaker 1: care about this? And as new research is now able
22:46
Speaker 1: to verify the clear linkage between some of these presidents,
22:49
Speaker 1: it is unclear how or if it will affect public
22:52
Speaker 1: policy nationwide. And yeah, we know this is only the
22:56
Speaker 1: tip of what needs to be discussed in the overall
22:58
Speaker 1: implications of what has happened with our society and whether
23:01
Speaker 1: or not we are able to bring any change to
23:05
Speaker 1: a broken system. It certainly feels like we've been screaming
23:09
Speaker 1: about this for years and no one's been listening, or
23:12
Speaker 1: the people in power have been Like thoughts and prayers,
23:15
Speaker 1: thoughts and prayers move on and as we talk about
23:30
Speaker 1: the links that happened within. Of course, we talked about
23:33
Speaker 1: this with our Q and On episode and the Insurrection
23:35
Speaker 1: episode that we did with Bridget how we are seeing
23:38
Speaker 1: those who feel like powers being taken from them using
23:41
Speaker 1: violence to come at them. And within that linkage, how
23:45
Speaker 1: many of them has some type of incident or with
23:47
Speaker 1: domestic violence or even incidents against abortion clinics and reproductive
23:52
Speaker 1: rights clinics. Like it's very obvious that there's a singular
23:55
Speaker 1: link between all of these studies and who is part
23:59
Speaker 1: of problem? I guess for the lack of better terms,
24:02
Speaker 1: and of course again this we're not even talking about
24:05
Speaker 1: gun control laws. We're not even talking about the policies
24:08
Speaker 1: based on that. We're not talking about whether or not
24:10
Speaker 1: the Second Amendment has been affected here or should be
24:13
Speaker 1: affected here in these conversations. But we're talking about is
24:17
Speaker 1: that there is a commonality that we have to address
24:20
Speaker 1: and whether or not anybody's gonna pay attention, because yeah,
24:22
Speaker 1: it's it's not new, especially in the last ten years.
24:25
Speaker 1: I think we've talked more and more about it overall,
24:28
Speaker 1: and it's not hard to see, especially if you've been
24:30
Speaker 1: with someone, if you had a loved one involved in
24:32
Speaker 1: domestic violence or even emotional abuse, or if you've suffered
24:37
Speaker 1: that yourself or gone through that yourself, or work within
24:41
Speaker 1: those communities and types of atmospheres. It is very obvious
24:45
Speaker 1: once you see the glaring signs. Oftentimes for those who
24:49
Speaker 1: are survivors or those who have been in the field. No,
24:53
Speaker 1: I know the signs of what is happening, and it's
24:55
Speaker 1: really frustrating when you can't figure out a solution um
24:58
Speaker 1: and I know they're content. He needs to be a
25:00
Speaker 1: fight when it comes to gun policies and protection for
25:03
Speaker 1: the victims, which is what we're asking for. And we've
25:06
Speaker 1: talked about the back and forth of the Violence Against
25:08
Speaker 1: Women Act in the past administrations and the fact that
25:11
Speaker 1: it had to be written back in because it was
25:13
Speaker 1: so quietly taken out. And when we talk about funding
25:16
Speaker 1: to help survivors, they're so little, uh that is actually
25:20
Speaker 1: being afforded to them and given to them as a resource.
25:23
Speaker 1: And the fact that we have to look at nonprofits
25:26
Speaker 1: that have to do fundraising because that you don't get
25:28
Speaker 1: grants or enough of a grant to help, and that
25:31
Speaker 1: they are limited by being only help able to help,
25:34
Speaker 1: you know, twenty women when we just saw the stats
25:37
Speaker 1: of how many women are actual victims and our survivors,
25:41
Speaker 1: and it's really infuriating. And we're not even again looking
25:44
Speaker 1: at the end depth of the financial abuse that we've
25:47
Speaker 1: talked about beforehand and what that looks like and why
25:51
Speaker 1: that is so dangerous as well, and of all control,
25:55
Speaker 1: and yeah, we need to talk about whether we value masculinity,
25:59
Speaker 1: which is can be typically more toxic under the guise
26:01
Speaker 1: of hegemonics, over the protections of individual citizens. And that's
26:06
Speaker 1: the question of what are we doing about the guns.
26:08
Speaker 1: Are we really really looking at protecting or are we
26:11
Speaker 1: really really looking at profits and or a standard that
26:15
Speaker 1: it's harmful for everyone because the overall idea that one
26:18
Speaker 1: should be dominating over another that in itself is a threat. Yeah. Yeah,
26:27
Speaker 1: it's frustrating conversation on so many levels, obviously. But I
26:32
Speaker 1: have gotten in fights with people before where they being
26:36
Speaker 1: someone very adamant about like don't come and take my guns,
26:40
Speaker 1: saying it's all about like protection, safety and control, and
26:44
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, if I walk into a place and
26:46
Speaker 1: I see somebody with a gun, I don't feel safer
26:51
Speaker 1: I immediately feel less safe, like and that whole idea
26:54
Speaker 1: of like the best way to stop someone with the
26:56
Speaker 1: gun is another person with a gun. And I'm like,
26:59
Speaker 1: since when does it have to escalate to this? Like
27:03
Speaker 1: we can't find another place along the line to protect
27:06
Speaker 1: the more people, right, you know? That's the That's the
27:10
Speaker 1: other part to that is, at what point do we
27:12
Speaker 1: say this is a hobby and this is status versus protection. Again,
27:17
Speaker 1: when the conversation, people want to talk about how, you know,
27:20
Speaker 1: if you outlaw guns, you know, people don't get them
27:23
Speaker 1: illegally anyway, and all of these things, uh, and or
27:27
Speaker 1: talking about how they need the bigger guns because what
27:30
Speaker 1: if something goes wrong, you know, the fake apocalypse that's
27:33
Speaker 1: supposed to happen soon, all of these things, and I
27:36
Speaker 1: get a level like I hate guns. This is my
27:39
Speaker 1: own personal opinion. I hate them. They scared the hell
27:41
Speaker 1: out of me. I left one of my jobs because
27:44
Speaker 1: I was going to be enforced to have a gun.
27:46
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, no, I'm good. I'm out.
27:48
Speaker 1: That was not my job. But I'm not even arguing
27:52
Speaker 1: about whether or not you can have a gun. I'm
27:53
Speaker 1: not arguing with you about whether or not Second Amendment rights.
27:57
Speaker 1: It's just more of that. We have to think about
28:00
Speaker 1: the necessary toll is taken and why we are not
28:04
Speaker 1: having some type of legislation or conversation about why this
28:07
Speaker 1: is a controlled more than what it is when everything
28:10
Speaker 1: else is seemingly way controlled. Women's bodies are so more
28:13
Speaker 1: controlled than guns, and that has taken lies versus all
28:18
Speaker 1: of everything else, you know what I mean, It's just
28:20
Speaker 1: kind of such a weird conversation. Again, this is this
28:24
Speaker 1: is not what we're talking about necessarily in this episode,
28:27
Speaker 1: the gun control stuff. We are talking about why we
28:29
Speaker 1: need to see it. And again, yeah, I think more women.
28:32
Speaker 1: You'll find more women saying they're uncomfortable with guns and
28:36
Speaker 1: they are the men when it comes to statistics and
28:40
Speaker 1: who owns it and who is part of the n
28:42
Speaker 1: r A. There's a very clear line of genders of
28:45
Speaker 1: like who is here and who isn't. And again there's
28:49
Speaker 1: got to be somewhat of a level of okay, but
28:52
Speaker 1: why people fighting so hard again capitalism and it's you know,
28:59
Speaker 1: truest form and what this is and who is making
29:01
Speaker 1: all the money and why it's so important to them.
29:04
Speaker 1: But the fact is, it comes down to do you
29:06
Speaker 1: trust people too? I think that's part of that conversation
29:09
Speaker 1: is you go into a relationship not realizing who you're
29:12
Speaker 1: with and finding yourself caught and then you're caught up
29:14
Speaker 1: into this whole world that you don't understand, and then
29:17
Speaker 1: you add a gun to it and it becomes a
29:19
Speaker 1: whole new mix obviously. And yeah, we can go back
29:23
Speaker 1: to the fact that many of the Mats shootings had
29:25
Speaker 1: legal guns end the story, and again, who is perpetuated
29:29
Speaker 1: by and who the demographics are, who are the actual
29:32
Speaker 1: shooters and why that's important to look at in the
29:35
Speaker 1: system that doesn't police them very well, but the police
29:39
Speaker 1: and other individuals really well, to the point that they
29:43
Speaker 1: are murdered for taking two steps outside of the line. Yeah. Yeah,
29:47
Speaker 1: And I mean it's a lot to untangle, as as
29:49
Speaker 1: you said at the top, Samantha, because there are so
29:53
Speaker 1: many issues here. But I think that we can't not
29:56
Speaker 1: talk about if there's multiple instances where that I can
30:00
Speaker 1: think of off the top of my head, where it's
30:03
Speaker 1: a dude being like this one woman rejected me once
30:06
Speaker 1: and now I have to kill everyone and myself usually,
30:10
Speaker 1: and that is a problem that we should be asking
30:12
Speaker 1: why that is exactly and then also why we have
30:16
Speaker 1: to look at the fact that, you know, women from
30:18
Speaker 1: eighteen to forty four probably don't die of a gunshot,
30:22
Speaker 1: like it's just kind of one of those yeah that um,
30:26
Speaker 1: and again, yeah, the correlation seems to be getting more
30:29
Speaker 1: clear as more research as being done over who values
30:32
Speaker 1: what in our current state of being, and not much
30:35
Speaker 1: has changed. I know that there's a lot of outcry.
30:38
Speaker 1: There's a shooting that I specifically remember. I think Columbine
30:41
Speaker 1: would be mine point of like, they're going to do
30:43
Speaker 1: something now, they're going to do something with gun control,
30:45
Speaker 1: and surely, surely the goodness something's going to happen, and
30:48
Speaker 1: nothing happened. The Sandy Hook shooting was another one. I
30:51
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, young children have been affected.
30:53
Speaker 1: Surely something is going to happen. And of course the
30:57
Speaker 1: whole ablest narrative of mental health comes in and instead
31:00
Speaker 1: of guns and instead of violence against women, because the
31:04
Speaker 1: first thing he did was he shot his mother, and
31:06
Speaker 1: I think that says a lot. He was after her
31:08
Speaker 1: and then it went bigger. But there needs that conversation
31:13
Speaker 1: of like, ah, yeah, okay, let's not be able us
31:17
Speaker 1: to just blame one thing, because that's something that you know,
31:20
Speaker 1: you want to say, is out of your control and
31:22
Speaker 1: therefore you couldn't like you couldn't have that couldn't happen normally, right,
31:26
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is he had access
31:28
Speaker 1: and that's part of the problem, and that's part of
31:30
Speaker 1: that conversation that we don't have. And again, like those
31:34
Speaker 1: big points, I was like, yeah, something's gonna happen, and
31:37
Speaker 1: it didn't. And it seems to continue to be that way.
31:40
Speaker 1: And that's the most frustrating part is, yes, these new
31:43
Speaker 1: statistics are alarming, but for people like us who have
31:47
Speaker 1: been in this industry, is not shocking. We just now
31:52
Speaker 1: have actually verifiable numbers. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you said,
31:57
Speaker 1: or they or not will do anything about it. And
32:00
Speaker 1: that's a whole other something we've talked about before, which
32:03
Speaker 1: too much for this episode of that whole like blamed
32:05
Speaker 1: the mother thing, right, it really is. It comes back
32:08
Speaker 1: a lot in these where it's like, well, she must
32:11
Speaker 1: have been and I I don't know, but it's like
32:13
Speaker 1: the fact that that is we instead of him. We
32:15
Speaker 1: always are like put that mother though, right, right, But
32:18
Speaker 1: that's kind of that conversation of when women and I've
32:21
Speaker 1: seen this many times, who are victims and then their
32:25
Speaker 1: children are victims, and both the mother and the father
32:28
Speaker 1: get arrested, but oftentimes the mother is the one that
32:31
Speaker 1: gets since enced the longest for not protecting her child.
32:34
Speaker 1: The majority of the time is because she was a
32:36
Speaker 1: victim herself and she's fearful that they're going to die.
32:39
Speaker 1: She does anything like they are all going to die,
32:42
Speaker 1: and these are kind of that relevance, So I'm like, yeah,
32:44
Speaker 1: they do, this is what happens. They end up dying,
32:47
Speaker 1: and so instead because they didn't come out of it,
32:50
Speaker 1: because they have no other other circumstances to come out
32:53
Speaker 1: of it, they're punished more so than the actual abuser
32:57
Speaker 1: because they didn't they as the mother, should have been
33:00
Speaker 1: texting the child. Yep, so much. There's so much here,
33:09
Speaker 1: so much obviously we untangled, like, oh, there's five out
33:12
Speaker 1: the topics here from when we all want to be
33:14
Speaker 1: Debbie Downers. Yeah. Well, if you're ready to have more
33:19
Speaker 1: Debbie Downer conversations, you know where to email us. You
33:24
Speaker 1: can send those messages are away Steffia mom Stuff at
33:27
Speaker 1: I hurt media dot com. You can find us on
33:29
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and stuff
33:31
Speaker 1: I Never told you. Thanks. It's always to our super
33:33
Speaker 1: producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to you for listening
33:36
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