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How much do Horses really UNDERRSTAND? · The Horsehuman Connection Matrix

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  This is the Horse Human Connection, a captivating podcast where we extend into the world of equine assisted learning, horse training.
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  and gentleness in working with these magnificent creatures.
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  Captivating stories from the leading professionals and ordinary people alike unravel novel ideas in being with horses.
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  The Horse Human Connection is an idea, a place, and a voice.
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  The idea is to support the quiet revolution and recognize the intelligence and true nature of the horse.
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  The place is a destination farm near the Umpqua Forest and River that slows down visitors and patrons enough to experience the shift.
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  The Voice is this podcast.
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  Welcome to today's episode.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: This is, is she back with episode eight of the horse human connection matrix podcast.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Oh, I'm so grateful that people are listening.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We have 78 downloads, I believe in less than 30 days.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So I'm very hopeful that people are opening their minds to the quiet revolution.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And how your relationship with your horse can be really different.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Today.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I am going to talk a little bit more about some stories from my herd.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And some experiences with equine assisted practices.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Which is like equine therapy, but I am not a therapist.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So we talk about experiential learning where the horses help out.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And that can take.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Several different forms.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Anyway, some of the stories today will cross into that modality.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I just want to recap something that Kimberly said in one of the last interviews about if we are opening up your mind and peaking an interest in what we're doing.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: There are avenues to explore more contacting myself or Kimberly is one of those ways.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Directly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So some of you who know my herd have gotten back to me and said, oh, it was so sweet to hear those stories about Firefly or Sipsy again.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I haven't seen them in a while.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And my horses have friends, you know, like your kids have friends.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And there were definitely times at the larger ranch where I think people may come more to see the horses, their, their friends, the horses than than me per se.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But that's all okay.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I've always encouraged my horses to have their own relationships.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: As long as you know, nobody's getting hurt.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That's a that's okay with me.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So there was one day.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: On a co-created ride.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I was on Sipsy and PI and Firefly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And as we road.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Through part of the ranch that had a scrub Oak forest.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I found that she would take me really close to the trees.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: On a couple occasions.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I pushed into the tree to push us away because it was almost like my foot was going to touch these scrub Oaks.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And the scrub Oaks are not more than like six to eight inches in circumference.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And every time I did this, the tree fell.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It was a dead tree.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I didn't realize that these were standing dead trees and Sipsy was purposely taking me right next to the tree where my inclination was to push on it so that my foot didn't get caught or stuck or run into it.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And every time that as I pushed on it with my hand, the tree would fall over.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I know she wasn't surprised because she didn't start all at all when the tree fell.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: After a while I began to think.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, there there's something to this.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She's telling me something.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And we were expecting company.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We were expecting a young couple to come to the ranch.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: There were some things happening in this young couples lives that were very tumultuous and.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It would have been my inclination.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: As an older person to give.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: To give some advice and some warnings.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Regarding what was going on in these young people's lives.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So that was part of the reason they were coming to kind of decompress and talk about things and spend some time with the horses that might help them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I realized that what Sipsy was telling me in metaphor.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Was that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: These kids, these young adults.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We're far more fragile than I realized.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And that's what the dead trees were.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I'm getting goosebumps, just telling the story again.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That somehow.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I believe most horses have a sixth sense about things.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And when they're cued in and.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Asked for their way in and asked to participate in.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And healing and assisting and being there for people.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That they really do show up in, in ways that are psychic and.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I really believe that she knew.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And that she was telling me go easy.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: These people are fragile.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Be careful you don't push on them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And that is my tendency.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It's a push to push in a little bit.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: For growth and, you know, as I've gotten older, I've learned to reel that back.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That sometimes that can be what people need, but it isn't always.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I have another fond memory., I was at the ranch one summer and took over for the yoga teacher at the Y YMCA.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I was a certified yoga instructor.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And in taking over this class, I, you met some people.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It was a very large class and.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I would tell people as is true in yoga sometimes.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Going through the poses.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We'll bring emotional things to the surface for people.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And for them to just allow that, like that's part of the process and part of the practice of yoga.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So one day after class, there was a young woman who'd been in the back and I noticed that she lagged behind everyone else.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And as I kind of approached her to see if she was all right, and what was going on.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I could see that she was crying and she'd had one of these experiences.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So we chatted for a few minutes and.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I spontaneously asked her if she wanted to complain in the mud, because at the time I was also building a cob house, which has sand, clay and straw.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And it peaked her right out of her.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Whatever she was experiencing with the emotion and and she was happy to do that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So she ended up coming up to the ranch.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And when she got there, you know, we talked a little bit about whatever the emotional thing had been with her.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And then we went up to the cop, which was surrounded by a fence that had a big gate.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We proceeded to go in there and I proceeded to show her how to make cob and, and we were having fun playing in the mud and we were laughing and giggling and.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: As we went, as we went down to the cabin for a break.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I don't know, maybe it was some lunch or snack.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I don't quite remember.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But the horse was down there she was looking over her fence enclosure and seemed quite curious about this young woman.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I put a halter on her and introduced her and Firefly, led us up the hill back to where the cop was.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And she pushed the gate with her nose as if she was saying open the skate.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I want to go in there.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So I took her in.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She went over and smelled around where we had been laughing and giggling and what we'd been doing and looked at me and looked at the woman and looked at the house.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: My interpretation of all that was that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: My lovely horse wanted to understand what had changed with the mood.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, horses read.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: They read our intention.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: They read our emotion, they read our breath and our heart rate.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: At 60 feet away.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Or more.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, they, they can do this because that's how they've survived in the wild as being prey, animals.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And so.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I have no problem believing that Firefly knew the mood.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: New the mood had changed.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And was curious and asking about the curiosity of what changed at what were we doing?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: After being up there for a little while, she seemed satisfied.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She ate some grass and we let her out and close the gate.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But what she did was purposeful and unusual.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I have this kind of relationship with firefight because I've been open to it from the beginning.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Because it was the intention that, that's what I wanted.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I wanted that kind of a relationship with a horse from the beginning.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Sometimes people doubt horses, intelligence.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Or their interactions or what the relationship can be.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I'm not saying every horse is like Firefly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I mean, she's clearly an unusual horse.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But I also have had relationships, you know, with PI and Maddie and subsea.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And now with Charlie.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That are unusual to.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I just feel so blessed to be able to interact with these lovely creatures this way.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And that's the whole reason for the podcast, right?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Is.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: To let people know that there's more.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: There is more available.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So another time going even further back in time when I first got Firefly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And Kimberly was coming out to the ranch when we had the mountain trail and obstacle course out there.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And at one point Oh, you know, maybe it was after I left the ranch the first time it was boarding in Eugene, I think it was.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I went with Kimberly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And another of her students who is buying a horse.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I fell pony to amount trail and obstacle competition, somewhere up near a filament.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I don't remember exactly where.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But at this facility, it was about 20 or 30 acres and they had like a trail course, and then they had like an obstacle course.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And they had neighbors and the next door neighbors had a bloomin camel, like.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Yeah, a camel.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: The young horse that this other woman that was with us had just purchased, you know, she and the horse were getting acquainted.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That was kind of the, one of the purposes of this excursion was for this horse that she just bought.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: This was like her second lesson after she'd purchased the horse to get acquainted.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And firefight being a much older horse at the time.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Ah, she was like 20.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Kept getting in between.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: This camel in the next door neighbor's yard and the young horse.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And like I said, I wasn't very experienced back in the beginning.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And, you know, from a traditional standpoint, I was making mistakes and letting the horse decide where we were going.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: when I look back at that, I don't think it was a mistake at all.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I think it's my natural inclination that helped.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Lead me down the path that I wanted to go down, which was allowing Ms.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Horse to.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Have a say in things.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And she was having to say, and I wasn't objecting.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Like, okay, you want to go over here?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We'll let's see what's over here.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I was amused and I started calling my horse codependent because she wasn't going to let this other young horse and its new writer.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Risk having some kind of a fallout from the horse being frightened, not knowing what the camel was and you know, that's a new smell and a new creature for a horse.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: To come across and for a new writer to be able to, to ground them both out and to.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Help regulate the both and two.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Reassure the horse that the camel isn't going to eat them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: When I look back at what Firefly did that day, I.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, it all feeds in doesn't it like every experience that I've had that seems special, magical, unusual.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: With that horse.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And you could easily say like, oh, that's just my interpretation of what happened.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And somebody else could interpret the same events in a very different way.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I'm cognizant of that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Yeah, this is definitely my unique perspective.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I do still wonder, and I would love to interview some autistic people that have experiences with animals.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: About this, because I do think that P thinking in pictures and being neurodivergent has something to do with the way I've approached this.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: During therapy sessions the horses have done some interesting things to, I I want to be sure to keep confidentiality and kind of mix it up a little bit here, but.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It's worthwhile enough to say, in fact, I was talking to a potential guest about, about this particular incident.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I was saying, who's going to believe that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And her response was, well, anybody that's done at queen therapy would surely.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Believe that because it happens all the time.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But this kind of thing, doesn't happen to people.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I don't think it does anyways.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: If you're out there and it's happened to you, please.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Come on the show, be a guest and tell me your stories.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But I don't think it's so common with barrel racers and team Penners and rodeo folk.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But they end up having these relationships or these experiences because their relationships are so different and mostly not all the time, but mostly dominant spaced.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So in the therapy world.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In the equine assisted practices world, I should say.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: sOmetimes I use props.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: With people and they are symbolic.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I got a bunch of toys at the dollar store and I have things like an army helmet and a plastic dagger and a chain and knives and baby dolls and butterfly wings and glue and scissors that are still in a package.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: A feather bow, like all kinds of things that can be representative of other things.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And we work with goals and obstacles.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: My methodology is to generally ask people to take either the bamboo or the cherry tone timbers.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And to create a shape.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In the area where we're working.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And then I asked them to tell me what the shape is.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I asked them to think about their goals and obstacles and to pick toys from the box that represent their goals and the obstacles to those schools.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And then we.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Depending on the level of comfort with the horse either we'll put a halter and lead rope on and ask the horse to, to come about and I'll ask him to lead the horse and tell the horse their story.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: or What's going on with the shapes that they've created.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It's really very gestalt or young in a design.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It applies to the subconscious mind.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And the symbols and metaphors play out in this way.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I've seen the horses interact in some pretty amazing ways with the objects, which brings up the question, like, do they understand symbolism?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I think they do.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Are, is there energy attached as we're thinking about it, are they reading our emotional connection to the objects or our thoughts or pictures?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In connection with the objects and I don't for sure have the answers to these, but I'll just tell you what I see, what I have witnessed.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So at one point I was working with people and there was an object from the box.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It was a perfect representation of something in one of the persons lives.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I was working with two people and they each made a box and the object was in one box.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And as we were talking with the horse, the horse picked up the object in its mouth and moved it to the other box.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And by box, what I mean is.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: The cherry tone timbers that are eight foot long.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Laid on the ground in the shape of a square.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That's what the shape was this particular day.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And then we talked some more with the horse there and we switched people and the other person talked quite a bit.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And ended up picking up.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: The toy and putting it back in box one.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Well about the time that happened here comes Firefly from across the pasture.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I mean, I'm not a real far away, but like maybe 120 feet away.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In a very direct, purposeful, fast walk.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Direct line to the object.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Picked that object up out of the box and moved it back into the first box.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She was clearly making a statement that this thing was about.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: The person that belonged had constructed that box, not the other one.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And he, the session didn't end up.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Necessarily going anywhere, but the intent of the horses was very, very clear.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And again, I'm coming at this from a place of how smart our horses.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Do they deserve to be treated?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Differently than simply dominating them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Can they interact with us?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In ways that are more beneficial to both humans and horses.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: The horse human connection matrix for the benefit of both.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That's why I'm doing this for the benefit of horses and for humans.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I've witnessed in my heard.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I'm so happy to hear that more and more trainers as they train new trainers are sending them out.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: To just be with horses and observe herd behavior.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And it's not like feral wild herd behavior, it's domestic herd behavior, but it's still herd behavior.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I'm really glad that that's becoming more and more of an accepted practice.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I think the intention and most of it.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Is for leadership and dominance and Kimberly and I touched on that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That place of like so many other things happen between horse, horse relationships and in her dynamics.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That we're not paying attention to because so many people are focused only on dominance.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That they're missing a lot.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So one of the things that I witnessed in my herd.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Was the assignment of jobs.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: When PI Sipsy and Firefly, we're all together.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: PI's job given to him by Sipsy.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Was.
• 19:00
  MacBook Air Microphone: To be the protector and the alert.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And he would.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Sometimes, you know, roam off from them and, and have a look around if there was anything out there, he was, you know, high alert for that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Most of the time.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And if something needed chasing off.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Whether it was snorting at elk passing through or deer.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Or one time I even saw him lower his head and aggressively chase a Bobcat up the hill, a very big Bobcat.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That was his job and Firefly's job since she's no longer been a lead horse, although she did lead.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Many different herds as we traveled and, and boarded at different barns.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And she's been in a lot of places.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But as she.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Needed to acquiesce.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I watched her do this.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Like I watched her give up.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Control of a herd and how gracefully she did it.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I know that it wasn't necessarily that easy.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But she acquiesced well.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But she got a job and her job.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I used to say she's like Lieutenant O'Hara and if anybody is old enough to remember the original star Trek Lieutenant O'Hara was communications and she was always on her little pre Bluetooth, Bluetooth.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Trying to hail different frequency isn't and that's that's Firefly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Whenever there's been.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Confusion about what humans are trying to tell you.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Tell you, I mean, the other horses.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She will come over and clarify, go over touch noses with them.
• 20:39
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I really believe that when they're touching noses, That they are transferring pictures.
• 20:45
  MacBook Air Microphone: More acutely.
• 20:48
  MacBook Air Microphone: That it gets, it gets sharper.
• 20:51
  MacBook Air Microphone: It gets more detailed when they come in and get close together.
• 20:55
  MacBook Air Microphone: I've been lots of times I was writing Sipsy in.
• 20:57
  MacBook Air Microphone: I may have even mentioned this in one of the other stories.
• 21:01
  MacBook Air Microphone: I would be working with something on Sipsy.
• 21:05
  MacBook Air Microphone: With the other horses are just free, you know, on the 200 acres where they can come up or not come up and I could see Firefly paying attention, flicking and ear kind of looking over from time to time and giving us the time and space to figure it out.
• 21:20
  MacBook Air Microphone: And occasionally I would say, okay, I just can't do this firefight.
• 21:22
  MacBook Air Microphone: Can I get some help here?
• 21:24
  MacBook Air Microphone: And she would come over, they would touch noses and then Sipsy would understand.
• 21:29
  MacBook Air Microphone: What I'm asking her while I'm on her back.
• 21:32
  MacBook Air Microphone: And that didn't happen once or twice.
• 21:36
  MacBook Air Microphone: Happened a lot.
• 21:40
  MacBook Air Microphone: So.
• 21:42
  MacBook Air Microphone: Again, the things that are possible, the different ways that horses learn.
• 21:46
  MacBook Air Microphone: The neuroscience that we now all have access to.
• 21:50
  MacBook Air Microphone: Regarding what's really going on in the horse brain human brain.
• 21:55
  MacBook Air Microphone: Is so worth a deeper look.
• 21:59
  MacBook Air Microphone: Thank you for listening.
• 22:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: And again, I am looking for folks to interview, so don't be afraid to contact me.
• 22:08
  MacBook Air Microphone: There's a Facebook page, the horse human connection.
• 22:12
  MacBook Air Microphone: There is The email in the notes for the podcast, you can reach me that way at I able dot HHC.
• 22:23
  MacBook Air Microphone: At gmail.com.
• 22:28
  MacBook Air Microphone: Enjoy your day.