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TRIAL DELAY IN MURDER OF NIKKI CHENG SAELEE MCCAIN · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Devastated sisters here grizzly facts
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Speaker 1: in the missing Nikki Chang case now upgraded to murder.
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Speaker 1: But where's the body? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Mom's
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Speaker 1: Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road. Nicky's
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Speaker 1: case is a homicide investigation. There are several assaults on Niki.
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Speaker 1: A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior
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Speaker 1: to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.
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Speaker 1: She thought she was going to die. Where is NICKI?
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Speaker 1: A brutal assault at the hands of this guy some
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Speaker 1: time became us.
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Speaker 2: Nickie was the first role.
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Speaker 3: I would like to thank starts office w I for
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Speaker 3: getting involved any efforts to give my health, my wife
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Speaker 3: home safe.
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Speaker 2: Uh, we miss you.
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Speaker 1: He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.
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Speaker 4: I really know.
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Speaker 2: I haven't been in the public guys, and I've been
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Speaker 2: done very well with it.
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Speaker 3: Apologized every one, especially my children, my wife's family.
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Speaker 2: My name is as well. I'm just hearing support such
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Speaker 2: anything that I can do, I want to do that.
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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this Nancy.
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Speaker 5: A new trial date set for Tyler McCain, the man
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Speaker 5: charged with killing his wife, Nikki Chang Sale McCain. McCain
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Speaker 5: faces twelve charges and multiple special allegations, including one that
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Speaker 5: he killed his wife to prevent her from testifying against
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Speaker 5: him in court over domestic violence charges. The jury trial
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Speaker 5: was supposed to start November eighteenth, but McCain's lawyer, Michael Borges,
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Speaker 5: asked for more time given the mounds of documentation provided
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Speaker 5: by the prosecution. Shasta Superior Court Judge Adam b Ryan
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Speaker 5: set the trial date for March seventeenth, twenty twenty six.
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Speaker 5: A trial readiness hearing will be held on March eleventh
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Speaker 5: to ensure both parties are ready for the trial.
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Speaker 1: How did we get here? With me? Defense attorney Philip
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Speaker 1: Dubay Here he is pleading for his watch's attorney. He's like, Uh,
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've got my thumb up my rerant. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I don't know what to say.
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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's not as if he had
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Speaker 4: an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in
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Speaker 4: front of a camera as if he's doing a screen
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Speaker 4: test for an Academy Award film it's ridiculous. The guy
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Speaker 4: was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was
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Speaker 4: going to be asked. He didn't know what he was
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Speaker 4: going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and
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Speaker 4: have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything,
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Speaker 4: to say.
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Speaker 2: So to say that.
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Speaker 4: That implies guilt. Here we go again, Here we yes,
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Speaker 4: there she goes.
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Speaker 1: Say the rhapsody and all of a splendor and glory
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Speaker 1: of Phillip Debay trying to explain away a defendant, in
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Speaker 1: this case, a murder suspect, you know, not to Bethany Marshall.
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Speaker 1: Try as he might, Philip Debay cannot explain away why
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Speaker 1: the husband of the missing mom, who she's had all
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Speaker 1: these children by him, he beat her to a pull
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Speaker 1: before I was about to testify against him when she
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Speaker 1: went missing. He stands up and goes, I don't know
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Speaker 1: what to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead, his
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Speaker 1: children don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what
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Speaker 1: to say. You know what, when John David disappeared in
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Speaker 1: the middle of a big, huge Babies or US warehouse,
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Speaker 1: I knew what to say. I screamed, my baby's missing,
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Speaker 1: locked the doors. I screamed it over and over. It
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Speaker 1: sounded like a siren in my throat. I knew what
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Speaker 1: to say, Nancy.
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Speaker 6: He's unable to say anything because he has the share
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Speaker 6: of the prosecutor law enforcement standing next to him. And
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Speaker 6: what I mean by this is when he was alone
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Speaker 6: with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He
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Speaker 6: would sit on her back, he would beat her. He
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Speaker 6: put a towel over her face, poured water on it
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Speaker 6: to the point where she felt she was suffocating and
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Speaker 6: couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face.
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Speaker 6: She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and
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Speaker 6: lacerations on her face. And yet when he's in front
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Speaker 6: of law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he
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Speaker 6: is on home at home. So I see with these
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Speaker 6: types of men who are abusive, that they are very
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Speaker 6: powerful when they're alone with a small, fragile woman, but
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Speaker 6: when they're they come face to face with consequences, they.
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Speaker 1: Kind of collapse. Let's watch him implode again. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I could just watch this all night.
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Speaker 7: Watch I do really not say. I haven't been the
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Speaker 7: other guys, and I haven't done very well with it.
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Speaker 7: I apologize everyone, especially my children. My wife's saying mind
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Speaker 7: as well as well. I'm just hearing support. So anything
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Speaker 7: that I can do.
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Speaker 2: I want to do.
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Speaker 1: Apologizing for what that's certainly a Freudian slip. Apologizing for what?
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Speaker 1: Did anybody think to ask him that? Now you heard
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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall describe me a horrible incident of abyse.
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Speaker 1: This is how it started.
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Speaker 8: Wednesday night, around eight thirty, Nicky Sale McCain is in
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Speaker 8: her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of thirteen years,
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Speaker 8: Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood for no
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Speaker 8: apparent reason. Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Niki,
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Speaker 8: holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling
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Speaker 8: what are you doing? Nicky says Tyler McCain's eyes are
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Speaker 8: glazed over. Nicky tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work,
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Speaker 8: and he holds her down and begins hitting her in
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Speaker 8: the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period,
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Speaker 8: with McCain binding Nicki's wrists and ankles together with tape,
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Speaker 8: putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly,
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Speaker 8: rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain sits on
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Speaker 8: her back, pulling her hair back, forcefully pulling her head back,
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Speaker 8: and telling her he's going to kill her.
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Speaker 1: This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call
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Speaker 1: it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault. But it doesn't
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Speaker 1: end there.
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Speaker 8: After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife,
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Speaker 8: the mother of his four children, hitting her about the
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Speaker 8: face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair,
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Speaker 8: and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and
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Speaker 8: goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings.
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Speaker 8: Nicki grabs a rope, runs outside and gets in her car.
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Speaker 8: Tyler McCain chases Nickie out of the house and jumps
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Speaker 8: onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop.
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Speaker 8: Ignoring his demands, Nikki flees to the safety of her
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Speaker 8: sister's home.
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Speaker 1: In reading What a Psycho, He jumps on her car
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Speaker 1: to stop her from leaving after he's been beating her
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Speaker 1: and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this time,
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Speaker 1: Dave mac joined us Crime Story's investigative reporter. This time
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Speaker 1: is different because she reports the violence. She reports to
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Speaker 1: the beatings and they get photos of the beatings.
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Speaker 9: Nancy.
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Speaker 8: In this particularly case, you know, we said, she runs
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Speaker 8: to her sister's house in reading, it's her sister that
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Speaker 8: lovingly says, we've got to take you to the hospital.
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Speaker 8: We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know,
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Speaker 8: for these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital,
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Speaker 8: she makes the call and a police officer arrives and
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Speaker 8: the tedtective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to
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Speaker 8: actually record exactly word for word Nikki sale McCain describing
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Speaker 8: this horrific attack. How long it took. It was a
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Speaker 8: twenty minute long interview with her talking, and it's just
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Speaker 8: it's shocking Nancy, how she described what she had just endured.
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Speaker 1: Okay, now, what were you saying, Philip Dubay about how
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Speaker 1: this is not a screen test in Hollywood? I think
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Speaker 1: I know why he couldn't speak at that presser. All
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Speaker 1: this was rushing through his mind. If he has any
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Speaker 1: conscious at all, or maybe he's like a frog. Have
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Speaker 1: you ever held a frog and looked at it in
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Speaker 1: the face, It just he just blinks. It's cold blooded creature,
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Speaker 1: no emotions. Is that what's happening?
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Speaker 4: No, he does have an emotionally low IQ.
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Speaker 9: But I don't know.
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Speaker 4: Why, and I have no actual evidence of this, but
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Speaker 4: he reminds me of a classic meth addict. That's somebody
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Speaker 4: who flies off the handle after a lengthy fix and
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Speaker 4: when he's trying to chase the dragon and trying to
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Speaker 4: get another fix, he can't get it, so he acts
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Speaker 4: out in a fit of peek and rage. And I
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Speaker 4: have a feeling that this incident, if it's in fact true,
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Speaker 4: was drum fueled.
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Speaker 1: Put him up, you know, Debay, It's amazing how you
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Speaker 1: can do a hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood
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Speaker 1: screen test to he's a meth head. There's no evidence
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Speaker 1: at all that he's a meth head. But I guess
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Speaker 1: you're digging really deep to explain his behavior at the presser.
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Speaker 1: You know what technical legal term, screw his behavior at
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Speaker 1: the presser. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all,
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Speaker 1: why there's a preliminary hearing? I it confounds me. It's
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Speaker 1: the state's worst nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the state
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Speaker 1: can do an information just write up on a notepad
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Speaker 1: what the charges are going to be, or preferably a
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Speaker 1: grand jury that takes about five minutes. This preliminary hearing
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Speaker 1: requires the state to put up witnesses to prove pc
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Speaker 1: probable cause for the judge to bind the case over
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Speaker 1: or send it to the correct court. For instance, you
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Speaker 1: wouldn't send a murder case to traffic court. It would
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Speaker 1: go to a felony superior court where only felonies are tried.
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Speaker 1: That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the
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Speaker 1: first swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses.
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Speaker 1: That's what's happening now.
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Speaker 8: Listen a preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will
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Speaker 8: go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicki
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Speaker 8: Chang Sale. McCain has brought many witnesses to the stand,
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Speaker 8: from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.
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Speaker 8: Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence
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Speaker 8: for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of
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Speaker 8: his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it
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Speaker 8: will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta
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Speaker 8: County history. As of today, Nicki is still missing and
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Speaker 8: presumed dead.
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Speaker 1: Well brace yourself, Shasta County. Other jurisdictions have had plenty
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Speaker 1: of no body murder cases, so you know what, get
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Speaker 1: with it or you won't be with it much longer.
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Speaker 1: Elected District Attorney. Joining us now two very special guests
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Speaker 1: who have been to hell and back seeking justice for
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Speaker 1: their sister Nicki with US, Kay Ford and Chloe Saley.
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Speaker 1: They have been enduring excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing. Sisters,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've just got to know,
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Speaker 1: off the top, how do you go home and actually
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Speaker 1: fall asleep after hearing this evidence? K forward, how do
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Speaker 1: you decompress after all of this?
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Speaker 10: Each day we've you know, our sauces have been very supportive,
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Speaker 10: and we're also busy with kids activities, so a lot
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Speaker 10: of times that's been very helpful to refocus our thoughts
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Speaker 10: a little bit. But it is that once we're laying down,
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Speaker 10: it's taking all the information in.
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Speaker 1: Is a lot Now Joining US Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations,
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Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. Fitzgibbons leads a team of highly specialized
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Speaker 1: investigators who focus and specialize in locating missing people all
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Speaker 1: around the world, and you can find him at Uspasecurity
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Speaker 1: dot Calm. Former marine and Iraqi war veteran translation. He's
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Speaker 1: seen it all, fitz Gibbons. You know what, here's the problem,
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Speaker 1: one of the problems with a no body case. As
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Speaker 1: Dubey has pointed out on many occasions, I've seen this
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Speaker 1: trick done in court where in the closing argument the
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Speaker 1: defense attorney will say, hey, is that the victim coming
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Speaker 1: in the door right now? And they wait to see
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Speaker 1: if the jury turns to look, and if they do,
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Speaker 1: the defense will argue, So you're not even convinced she's dead,
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Speaker 1: much less who did it? But don't you think by now,
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Speaker 1: fitz Gibbons, she would have.
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Speaker 11: Been found absolutely Nancy. And you know, this has been
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Speaker 11: well over a year that we've been looking for Nicki.
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Speaker 11: And what I'll tell you is, in this preliminary hearing,
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Speaker 11: the DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement
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Speaker 11: from various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case
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Speaker 11: against Tyler McCain and the case forensic case to prove
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Speaker 11: that there was in fact the murder that took place.
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Speaker 11: So these crucial things have happened. On top of that,
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Speaker 11: you have five members of McCain's friends and family that
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Speaker 11: have taken the witness stand and their stories have contradicted
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Speaker 11: statements that they've made to the police. So I think
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Speaker 11: things are going very well for the district attorney here
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Speaker 11: to get that probable cause from the judge.
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Speaker 8: Writing.
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Speaker 12: Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says, Nikki's sister Chloe Saley texted
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Speaker 12: with Nikki regularly and there was always a response until
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Speaker 12: May nineteenth. Family members talk with Niki on May eighteenth,
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Speaker 12: but on May nineteenth, she never answered a text from Chloe.
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Speaker 12: Nicki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and
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Speaker 12: McCain going so far as to point a gun directly
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Speaker 12: at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.
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Speaker 8: Yeahpanie Alisio Brito says he found He's pick up on
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Speaker 8: Highway thirty six the night of May twenty fifth. Shockingly,
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Speaker 8: the deputy says there was a strong odor, the smell
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Speaker 8: of death coming from the covered truck bed. The smell
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Speaker 8: of decomposing flesh coming from inside the truck bed is
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Speaker 8: coupled with a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also
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Speaker 8: in the truck bed a white sheet with bloodstains and
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Speaker 8: dark colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood
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Speaker 8: in the truck bed. And strands of dark hair found
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Speaker 8: underneath a piece of trim. The blood and hair belonging
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Speaker 8: to Nicky Salia McCain and during.
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Speaker 1: This preliminary hearing, including grizzly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has
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Speaker 1: been excruciating for Nicky's sisters. Straight back out to Chloe
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Speaker 1: and Kay Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment
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Speaker 1: in the preliminary hearing? I mean, I don't know if
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Speaker 1: you are at all like me, but my first brush
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Speaker 1: with the law, the first time I had ever been
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Speaker 1: in a courtroom, was that my fiance's murder trial. A
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Speaker 1: lot of it I still can't remember, but the parts
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Speaker 1: I do remember, they changed my life forever and there's
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Speaker 1: no turning back after what happened in court. What has
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Speaker 1: been the most vivid moment in your mind in the
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Speaker 1: court room so far?
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Speaker 13: There are actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs
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Speaker 13: they played a recording of Nicki's voice about what happened
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Speaker 13: that night. That was really hard to hear because it
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Speaker 13: was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to
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Speaker 13: hear her voice for such a long time. And then
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Speaker 13: also just the evidence about how much blood was in
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Speaker 13: the back of that truck bed. That hit me really
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Speaker 13: hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then
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Speaker 13: was in the back of that truck and just you know,
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Speaker 13: when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder
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Speaker 13: and that they're never coming back again.
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Speaker 1: The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate
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Speaker 1: to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed?
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Speaker 13: I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever
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Speaker 13: they did to her, I think that she was placed
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Speaker 13: in the back of that truck.
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Speaker 1: But to die t K for Nikki's sister. Also, what
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Speaker 1: has been the most disturbing moment during the preliminary preliminary
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Speaker 1: hearing for you.
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Speaker 10: Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell
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Speaker 10: and kind of those details. She did such a good
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Speaker 10: job with being so professional and just very scientific with it.
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Speaker 10: But you know, just thinking of our sister in that
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Speaker 10: state was difficult to hear because you know, at the
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Speaker 10: end of the day, this this hearing has been about
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Speaker 10: decomposition of her body potentially, so those details were you know,
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Speaker 10: just kind of thinking that it's we're describing our sister.
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Speaker 14: That was pretty grizzly for me.
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Speaker 1: There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did
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Speaker 1: you learn, okay about the garage floor.
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Speaker 10: It sounded like a lot of activity happened, witness testimony
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Speaker 10: about looking like it had been cleaned. Also the blue
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Speaker 10: star light being used by the evidence technician indicating that
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Speaker 10: there was blood. They didn't they didn't specify it if
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Speaker 10: it was animal or human. But as far as I knew,
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Speaker 10: they weren't butchers, and they weren't, you know, they weren't
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Speaker 10: handling animals in the garage, So that that to me
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Speaker 10: definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene.
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Speaker 10: And and it's not a not a place that I
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Speaker 10: remember them cleaning a lot, So to have that the
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Speaker 10: garage cleaned, it's pretty telling for me.
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Speaker 1: When you refer to they, Okay, who are you talking about?
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Speaker 10: Well, the the witness testimonies so far, have you know,
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Speaker 10: indicated you know, the people living there, which would be
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Speaker 10: Tyler and may maybe someone who helped him, But so
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Speaker 10: far the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.
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Speaker 1: I got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe,
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Speaker 1: does he even look at you in the courtroom?
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Speaker 13: Chloe, No, he doesn't look anyone.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what about it, Kay, does he even meet
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Speaker 1: your gaze?
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Speaker 10: No, he for the most part has his head down
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Speaker 10: in his hands, and he hardly looks up even at
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Speaker 10: the witnesses. I did notice there was a witness last
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Speaker 10: week that he had his head up more than he
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Speaker 10: had with any other witnesses, and as well as when
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Speaker 10: they were displaying some pictures of his home, he did
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Speaker 10: look up at the projector screen during those pictures.
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Speaker 14: Other than that, no eye contact with us, Las Lever.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole nother
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Speaker 1: thing if you're not beating someone less powerful than you,
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Speaker 1: much much smaller, a less cunning than you are. When
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Speaker 1: you're actually court with equals, it's a lot more difficult
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Speaker 1: to be a bully. And now joining US special guest
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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, forensic certified blood Stained Pattern Analysts, Senior crime
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Speaker 1: analyst and death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst and author
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Speaker 1: of forensic science Applications to death and crime scene investigations,
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Speaker 1: and specifically author of bloodstain pattern analysis. Jeffrey Gentry, I
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Speaker 1: just want you to hear one more fact about the
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Speaker 1: blood pattern Listen.
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Speaker 12: During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put
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Speaker 12: up on a lift, where investigators discover blood pooled on
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Speaker 12: top of the fuel tank. Inspection reveals there was so
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Speaker 12: much blood some of it dripped down from the fuel tank.
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Speaker 12: On the passenger side of the truck, they found a
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Speaker 12: plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern Comfort whiskey.
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Speaker 1: Dear Lord and Peasant Crime stores with Nancy Grace that
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Speaker 1: mass quantity of blood Jeffrey Gentry can only mean one thing.
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Speaker 1: But any down in the street knows that. Give me
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Speaker 1: your analysis about what was found in the truck bed
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Speaker 1: and beyond.
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Speaker 9: These are all bad things, Nancy. So when you're working
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Speaker 9: a no body homicide case, you always have to consider
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Speaker 9: where the blood is found and then also the quantity
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Speaker 9: of blood that is found, because these are the things
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Speaker 9: that you're going to want to use evidence to convince
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Speaker 9: the jury that the person is dead even though there's
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Speaker 9: no body. So blood on bedsheets that's always a bad thing.
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Speaker 9: You would expect blood to be in bathrooms, kitchens, back
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Speaker 9: into sinks, things where blood might normally be found, but
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Speaker 9: you don't expect large quantities of blood to be saturated
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Speaker 9: into sheets, especially sheets that are tied up in knots.
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Speaker 9: That's one of the ways that we actually transport bodies
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Speaker 9: from crimes beings is you wrap them up in a
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Speaker 9: sheet you knotted up, then you put them inside of.
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Speaker 2: A body bag.
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Speaker 9: It makes it easier to carry a body.
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Speaker 8: So that is very bad when.
22:21
Speaker 9: You're looking at a person being missing and then you're
22:23
Speaker 9: finding blood strated into bed sheets, and then also the
22:27
Speaker 9: quantity of blood that's being poured out of the truck
22:29
Speaker 9: bed again, and you shouldn't have blood in the back
22:32
Speaker 9: of the truck bed and you should absolutely not have
22:34
Speaker 9: blood in sufficient quantities.
22:37
Speaker 2: To pour out of trucks.
22:38
Speaker 9: And then they touched on also the smell of decomposition.
22:41
Speaker 9: That's the smell that I of course smelled many times
22:44
Speaker 9: that thousands of death pass and it's something that you
22:47
Speaker 9: don't forget others are smelling decomposition. Again, that's another piece
22:51
Speaker 9: of evidence to suggest that this person is dead, even though.
22:55
Speaker 1: You don't have a boll straight out to Dave Matt
22:57
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, I want to go back to
23:00
Speaker 1: what's happening in the preliminary hearing. Tyler McCain, Nicky's abusive
23:07
Speaker 1: husband had a major outburst where he stands up, starts
23:11
Speaker 1: screaming and cursing.
23:12
Speaker 8: What happened, Well, in court, they showed pictures from the
23:16
Speaker 8: first search of the house of Nicki and Tyler's house,
23:21
Speaker 8: and in that first video shot you could tell that
23:23
Speaker 8: the house is very messy. There weren't a lot of
23:26
Speaker 8: pictures hanging up. But what he lost it over was
23:30
Speaker 8: the pictures that were shown from the second visit, after
23:33
Speaker 8: Nicki has been reported missing and the police go back
23:37
Speaker 8: in and are searching the home again. This time they
23:40
Speaker 8: find that the home is no longer messy. It's been
23:43
Speaker 8: picked up and cleaned. It has been staged with family
23:46
Speaker 8: photos now hanging on the walls. That's where he lost it, Nancy,
23:50
Speaker 8: because they were pointing out that, hey, man, when we
23:53
Speaker 8: came here the first time, right after she was reported missing,
23:56
Speaker 8: none of this was going on. This place was trash,
23:59
Speaker 8: But now look at it after she's gone, there's pictures
24:02
Speaker 8: hanging on the walls. So that's why he lost it.
24:04
Speaker 1: He stated Chloe that for a large portion of the
24:09
Speaker 1: hearing he would sit or he sits with his head
24:12
Speaker 1: down looking down. But isn't it true he had a
24:16
Speaker 1: major outburst, yelling and cursing. Yes, he did.
24:20
Speaker 13: It was when Cay mentioned it was when it was
24:22
Speaker 13: pictures of his house and the evidence technician she had
24:28
Speaker 13: mentioned that how the house had looked different from the
24:32
Speaker 13: first raid versus the second raid, and she just noticed
24:35
Speaker 13: that was unusual because when they went back the second
24:39
Speaker 13: time for the raid, they noticed that the living room
24:41
Speaker 13: was it was all cleaned up, it was very nice
24:44
Speaker 13: and meet and put together, and there were family photos
24:46
Speaker 13: hung up, and she just said she found that kind
24:49
Speaker 13: of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word and
24:55
Speaker 13: he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.
24:58
Speaker 1: Okay, I believe it's exact words are along the lines up.
25:01
Speaker 1: I don't even know why I'm even here. This is bulls.
25:04
Speaker 1: This is bullshit. This is him standing up and yelling
25:08
Speaker 1: and the judge had to call for a recess so
25:11
Speaker 1: his lawyer could calm him down. I mean, kay, if
25:14
Speaker 1: he would accho like that in open court in front
25:16
Speaker 1: of a judge, what would he do when he is
25:19
Speaker 1: alone with Nikki?
25:20
Speaker 10: Yeah, the outburst is pretty telling, and it wasn't maybe
25:26
Speaker 10: the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty telling
25:28
Speaker 10: because he had been keeping his composure pretty well throughout
25:32
Speaker 10: the hearings, So that outburst was definitely a surprise, and
25:37
Speaker 10: it was, like Loue said, it was comparisons from the
25:40
Speaker 10: first search or raid compared to.
25:44
Speaker 14: The one they went to about nine ten months later.
25:46
Speaker 10: And she commented, the evidence technician commented on what a
25:51
Speaker 10: difference it was. It was a home was in disarray previously,
25:54
Speaker 10: and then when she came back, it was, like Loue said,
25:56
Speaker 10: nice and tidy with family.
25:57
Speaker 14: Pictures all over the walls.
26:00
Speaker 10: And yeah, his outburse was asking what was wrong with
26:05
Speaker 10: having pictures of this family on the wall, and then
26:08
Speaker 10: what you had said.
26:09
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious. Bryan Fitzgibbons. I agree with you.
26:14
Speaker 1: I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But
26:18
Speaker 1: at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki,
26:22
Speaker 1: combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.
26:27
Speaker 11: Yeah, connect the dots here, right. We have a tremendous
26:31
Speaker 11: amount of forensic analysis that's been done on this vehicle,
26:35
Speaker 11: as testified by various members of law enforcement. That's undoubtedly
26:40
Speaker 11: what led Shasta County just about a couple of months
26:44
Speaker 11: ago to make the pronouncement that they believe that this
26:48
Speaker 11: is now a murder case. So you know, I think
26:51
Speaker 11: that there's sufficient evidence here to say that I want.
26:55
Speaker 1: To talk about the DNA evidence. It's my understanding that
27:00
Speaker 1: and Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong. That the
27:02
Speaker 1: sheet found in the bed of the truck covered in
27:06
Speaker 1: blood indicated by looking at the sheet that three of
27:13
Speaker 1: the four corners had been tied in a knot. I
27:18
Speaker 1: would argue, and Jeff gentry to you that they hitched
27:24
Speaker 1: people McCain got to help him get rid of the evidence.
27:29
Speaker 1: Each one took a corner of the sheet. Because DNA
27:35
Speaker 1: from three separate people are in each corner of the
27:39
Speaker 1: sheet where the knots have been tied, how does that work, Jeffrey.
27:44
Speaker 9: That's exactly what you want to look at, is where
27:47
Speaker 9: is the DNA on these sheets and who was involved?
27:50
Speaker 9: So if you have a knot on every single corner,
27:53
Speaker 9: that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved,
27:56
Speaker 9: that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I
27:58
Speaker 9: mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy.
28:02
Speaker 9: I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab
28:05
Speaker 9: a corner of the sheet and you transport them to
28:07
Speaker 9: where they need to go, and all at that time
28:10
Speaker 9: you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course
28:14
Speaker 9: I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people who
28:17
Speaker 9: most likely were not. And then if you're sweating and
28:20
Speaker 9: you're doing something active, there's more of a chance that
28:22
Speaker 9: you're going to transfer DA to whatever you're touching.
28:25
Speaker 1: Straight out to Chloe and kay Ken, aither of you
28:29
Speaker 1: tell me about the testimony on Louise Braha.
28:31
Speaker 14: Yeah, Louise he started his testimony.
28:35
Speaker 10: We only heard a little bit of it, but he
28:37
Speaker 10: had been He had an ongoing relationship with Thinkie and
28:43
Speaker 10: it sounds like it went back as far as.
28:46
Speaker 14: About a year or so before she went missing.
28:49
Speaker 10: And he very very calm, very seems like a very
28:55
Speaker 10: nice gentleman. He said they had met at his place
28:59
Speaker 10: of work, which was at a self phone store, and
29:02
Speaker 10: they become friends. He helped them with their with their
29:07
Speaker 10: celf phone service, and I think he noticed. I think
29:11
Speaker 10: he kind of noticed NICKI needed help, and I think
29:14
Speaker 10: he I think he felt bad for her. And I
29:19
Speaker 10: think in that, with with how how calm his demeanor was,
29:23
Speaker 10: with how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki
29:26
Speaker 10: felt like this was someone she could turn to when
29:30
Speaker 10: she needed it.
29:31
Speaker 1: There is also Justin corn What do we know about
29:37
Speaker 1: Justin's testimony. I felt like.
29:39
Speaker 13: He was very nervous. I feel like maybe he might
29:42
Speaker 13: have known more than he was letting on. But I
29:46
Speaker 13: definitely I hope that he was being honest, but I
29:49
Speaker 13: feel like he wasn't being as honest as because I
29:52
Speaker 13: feel like he does know more.
29:54
Speaker 1: Justin Karen lived in a trail or on the property.
29:57
Speaker 1: That means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also,
30:02
Speaker 1: they played a video of him talking to police and
30:06
Speaker 1: in it. In this video that was played in court,
30:09
Speaker 1: Karen says that he was asked by McCain a few
30:12
Speaker 1: days after Nicky goes missing to help disappear the Chevy
30:20
Speaker 1: Avalanche and whatever was inside of it, and they pointed
30:26
Speaker 1: out that Tyler McCain is letting him live on the
30:31
Speaker 1: property for free. Then he starts crying in the video
30:37
Speaker 1: when Cobbs press him for information, saying his mom lived
30:40
Speaker 1: with him, he didn't have anywhere to go if something
30:42
Speaker 1: happened to him. I mean, that's what it sounds like.
30:45
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you
30:47
Speaker 1: to describe that what happened.
30:50
Speaker 10: It sounded like mister Karen is kind of in a
30:54
Speaker 10: dependent situation with Tyler. He lives on the property, and
30:57
Speaker 10: it does sound like he is pretty much living grand
30:59
Speaker 10: for you know, and he was kind of a right
31:04
Speaker 10: hand man for Tyler. He helps around the house on
31:07
Speaker 10: the property, fixed cars whatever Tyler needed. And it does
31:11
Speaker 10: sound like without Tyler's I guess graciousness to let him
31:18
Speaker 10: live there, he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere
31:21
Speaker 10: to park his trailer. And he did mention his mom
31:24
Speaker 10: is not doing well and his mom is pretty dependent
31:27
Speaker 10: on him to you know, provide a place live and
31:31
Speaker 10: he does take care of him, so, you know, it
31:34
Speaker 10: sounds like mister Karen, unfortunately, was just pitched in a corner.
31:38
Speaker 10: I mean, he's when you're dependent on someone, it's hard
31:42
Speaker 10: to say no when they when they need your help.
31:45
Speaker 1: I understand that. But getting rid of a dead body
31:47
Speaker 1: as a whole other can of worms, Okay, that's more
31:49
Speaker 1: than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice,
31:55
Speaker 1: tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more.
31:57
Speaker 1: I'd be crying too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson.
32:04
Speaker 1: That is the girlfriend, right.
32:08
Speaker 13: They are no longer together, but they were dating.
32:11
Speaker 1: At the time. What did she say? What was her testimony?
32:15
Speaker 14: She did testify that on the night of.
32:20
Speaker 10: Or May seventeenth into the early morning hours of the eighteenth,
32:24
Speaker 10: she did hear some movement in the back of the
32:27
Speaker 10: house and on the back porch, which is where the
32:29
Speaker 10: master bedroom exits, and that's also where Nikki had parked
32:33
Speaker 10: her car closer to the.
32:37
Speaker 14: Master bedroom door. She said during those hours she did hear.
32:41
Speaker 10: Some movement and including a thud towards the back porch
32:45
Speaker 10: of the house in the rear of the truck in
32:48
Speaker 10: that to me, sounded like the bed area of the truck.
32:51
Speaker 1: Now I want to clarify, Felicia Nelson is Justin Karen's girlfriend,
32:58
Speaker 1: not Tyler McKay's girlfriend. And she also testified she was
33:02
Speaker 1: in the trailer and Justin Karen's trailer and it was
33:07
Speaker 1: not parked very far from the McCain home at all,
33:10
Speaker 1: and she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked.
33:17
Speaker 1: She later described a thud heard in the early morning
33:21
Speaker 1: hours May eighteen. May eighteen is the day Nikki goes missing,
33:26
Speaker 1: so that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney, cross
33:34
Speaker 1: examining all the witnesses. Yes, he was, Yes, and how
33:39
Speaker 1: did that pan out? He was?
33:41
Speaker 14: I feel like he was strategic.
33:43
Speaker 10: He did try to poke holes in some of their
33:45
Speaker 10: testimony or or and I don't know the crrec termology,
33:52
Speaker 10: but almost sometimes you know, someone said it was ten minutes,
33:56
Speaker 10: he might say, could you know, do you mean fifteen
33:59
Speaker 10: minutes because you had said fifteen minutes before? Things like
34:02
Speaker 10: that to kind of confuse as the person and make
34:04
Speaker 10: them feel, you know, like maybe they didn't remember correctly.
34:09
Speaker 14: But yeah, it's pretty crafty as far as you know,
34:12
Speaker 14: the cross and.
34:14
Speaker 10: Clarifying specific things that they had testified to.
34:19
Speaker 1: Now, another point of Justin Kieren's testimony that I found
34:22
Speaker 1: really interesting is that he stated he found Nicky's driver's
34:27
Speaker 1: license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch, and
34:33
Speaker 1: that he gave them to Tyler McCain and at the
34:36
Speaker 1: time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not
34:40
Speaker 1: burned or destroyed in any way. They were then later
34:45
Speaker 1: the driver's license was later found burned in Tyler McCain's wallet.
34:50
Speaker 1: Isn't that true? Yes? What can you tell me about
34:54
Speaker 1: I was found in Tyler McCain's mother's home.
34:58
Speaker 13: There was any comforter in their detached garage that had
35:03
Speaker 13: a lot of burn marks on it, and them there
35:06
Speaker 13: was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared to
35:09
Speaker 13: be burned as well.
35:10
Speaker 1: Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong
35:13
Speaker 1: to Niki? It was hard to tell because.
35:15
Speaker 14: It wasn't a pile.
35:17
Speaker 10: It looked denim like to me, but it could have
35:20
Speaker 10: just been, you know, the the thread material.
35:25
Speaker 14: But I did not specifically recognize the sweater.
35:28
Speaker 10: But Nicki had a lot of clothes, so I wouldn't
35:31
Speaker 10: recognize every piece that she had anyway.
35:34
Speaker 13: And there was also a note that was found to
35:37
Speaker 13: tell me about the note.
35:38
Speaker 1: Okay, do you have it right?
35:40
Speaker 13: Yeah?
35:40
Speaker 14: It was in a bin.
35:41
Speaker 10: It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage.
35:44
Speaker 14: It was on a pink post it note.
35:45
Speaker 1: And the odd thing is, throughout the search they.
35:47
Speaker 10: Had found numerous just notes lying around Nicki and Tyler's home,
35:52
Speaker 10: and this note happened to be in Jeanette's garage and
35:55
Speaker 10: it read remember that feeling when you could be Jesus
35:59
Speaker 10: for a day on drugs? Who wrote that It looks
36:03
Speaker 10: like it could have been Tyler's handwriting, but.
36:09
Speaker 14: They didn't. They didn't.
36:11
Speaker 1: They didn't say, fine, how did you guys endure the
36:15
Speaker 1: testimony about the discovery of the truck and what was
36:20
Speaker 1: found in the truck bed?
36:23
Speaker 13: That was probably one of the toughest things for me.
36:25
Speaker 13: I just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me.
36:31
Speaker 13: I just like clutching onto his hand because it was
36:34
Speaker 13: just it was just a lot.
36:35
Speaker 1: The deputy stated under oath there was a strong odor,
36:39
Speaker 1: the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed.
36:46
Speaker 1: There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a
36:50
Speaker 1: white sheet with bloodstains and dark colored hair, and Nikki
36:54
Speaker 1: had beautiful, long, dark hair. There are smears of dried
36:59
Speaker 1: blood bud in the truck bed, and there's dark hair
37:06
Speaker 1: found under a piece on the trim on the outside
37:10
Speaker 1: of the truck. It is it has been definitively proven
37:15
Speaker 1: that the blood and the hair belonged to your sister Nicki.
37:22
Speaker 1: And my final question to you, kay Ford, when you
37:26
Speaker 1: hear this technical evidence about blood and hair and a comparison,
37:32
Speaker 1: a lab comparison proving that it's Nicky's, do you let
37:38
Speaker 1: your mind go to how that blood got there and
37:42
Speaker 1: how her hair ended up in the trim of the
37:46
Speaker 1: foot of the truck.
37:48
Speaker 10: So it's like I said, it's just grizzly to things
37:51
Speaker 10: that that's what happened to her, you know, to even
37:55
Speaker 10: kind of imagine it's.
37:59
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's it's.
38:01
Speaker 1: Difficult specifically about Louis Philip Dubay, the witness. Now he's
38:10
Speaker 1: saying he had a romantic relationship with Niki Chang. I
38:14
Speaker 1: guess he is saying that now that his DNA is
38:18
Speaker 1: on the sheet, right, he's saying that it is from
38:21
Speaker 1: an earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the
38:26
Speaker 1: crime lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus sperm, right,
38:33
Speaker 1: So if his DNA is over in one of those
38:35
Speaker 1: knots tied, he's going to be proven to be a
38:39
Speaker 1: liar Debay exactly.
38:41
Speaker 4: And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California,
38:46
Speaker 4: in order to get that defense, you have to have
38:49
Speaker 4: more than just motive means an opportunity for someone else
38:51
Speaker 4: to have committed the crime.
38:53
Speaker 2: There has to.
38:54
Speaker 4: Be some other independent evidence linking that third party to
38:58
Speaker 4: the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at
39:03
Speaker 4: the scene where the death purportedly occurred. That is enough
39:08
Speaker 4: to get that third party culpability instruction, and particularly at
39:11
Speaker 4: a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court
39:15
Speaker 4: that the death was at the hands of somebody other
39:18
Speaker 4: than the defendant. The other problem I think the case
39:21
Speaker 4: has so far, we're not hearing that there was an
39:24
Speaker 4: unsurvivable loss of life.
39:26
Speaker 1: I find this really hard to believe, doctor Bethany Marshall.
39:31
Speaker 1: Now that Niki Tang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing
39:36
Speaker 1: about a sex affair. Is that just to conveniently explain
39:41
Speaker 1: away why his DNA is on the shape he used
39:44
Speaker 1: to transport her dead body? Nancy. Abuse victims do not
39:47
Speaker 1: have affairs.
39:48
Speaker 6: They are terrified to even smile at somebody in public.
39:52
Speaker 14: If the abuser is looking at them.
39:54
Speaker 1: The abuser questions, where did you have lunch?
39:57
Speaker 14: Did you talk to somebody?
39:58
Speaker 1: What did you say about them?
40:00
Speaker 6: Users are pathologically selloss. So no, I have a hard
40:05
Speaker 6: time believing that she would have risked her life by
40:08
Speaker 6: having an affairs.
40:10
Speaker 2: Nicky King.
40:13
Speaker 3: The first office.
40:17
Speaker 2: Getting involved, any efforts to.
40:23
Speaker 3: Get home by my phone, crap, you miss your phone?
40:38
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
40:43
Speaker 8: Ripley says it wouldn't start McCain put diesel in the
40:46
Speaker 8: gas powered truck and it had rolled down a gradual slope.
40:49
Speaker 8: Ripley says, Justin Karen asked McCain if there was anything
40:53
Speaker 8: in the truck that needed to disappear, and did the
40:55
Speaker 8: truck need to disappear? Both times McCain answered yes, that
40:59
Speaker 8: if it's asked Ripley if he was offered amnesty for
41:02
Speaker 8: his testimony, Ripley said he didn't need it because he
41:05
Speaker 8: hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley says he met with his
41:08
Speaker 8: nephew later that evening at his trailer on McCain's property
41:11
Speaker 8: and told him he wanted nothing to do with whatever
41:14
Speaker 8: was going on. He didn't know until the next day
41:16
Speaker 8: the avalanche was reported missing until he saw it on
41:19
Speaker 8: the news the next day.
41:20
Speaker 1: Philip Dubay, defense attorney, how can the defense possibly fight
41:24
Speaker 1: back against Ripley's testimony. Ripley says he asked the husband McCain,
41:32
Speaker 1: is there anything in the truck we need to get
41:34
Speaker 1: rid of? And McKain says yes. And he says, do
41:37
Speaker 1: we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain
41:38
Speaker 1: says yes, What do you do with that? That's just
41:41
Speaker 1: like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.
41:43
Speaker 4: Well, that presupposes that you believed the witness. In order
41:47
Speaker 4: for that to have any merit or any way, you
41:49
Speaker 4: have to find that the testimony is credible. And what
41:52
Speaker 4: do we know that you had other people who were
41:54
Speaker 4: intimate with her, And I find it astonishing to suggest
41:59
Speaker 4: that it could have only been mister McCain. Normally, if
42:03
Speaker 4: there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the
42:06
Speaker 4: fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on
42:09
Speaker 4: that sheet, I don't care what anybody says when they're
42:12
Speaker 4: on the stand. Forensics are the best eye witness debate.
42:17
Speaker 1: The DNA is in the corners of the edges of
42:22
Speaker 1: the sheet. They're clearly Daves mac where the sheet has
42:27
Speaker 1: been nodded to help carry Nikki's body, explaining the DNA
42:33
Speaker 1: found on the sheets, Dave mac Nancy.
42:36
Speaker 8: When they got that sheet out, they were examining each
42:39
Speaker 8: of those corners. As you mentioned, there are three knots
42:43
Speaker 8: in this sheet. In the corners, they've got separate DNA
42:47
Speaker 8: profiles from different individuals. In those knots, they're not all
42:52
Speaker 8: the same, So you've got three different people leaving their
42:57
Speaker 8: DNA on the knots that are tied in the sheep
43:01
Speaker 8: that also has Nikky Salley McCain's blood and hair. So
43:07
Speaker 8: and of course we've got her husband, his is all
43:10
Speaker 8: over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned.
43:13
Speaker 8: So it's the nots that were tied by these individuals
43:17
Speaker 8: in the sheep. By the way, it was found in
43:19
Speaker 8: the back of her truck that was sitting on the
43:22
Speaker 8: side of the road with a cover over the trunk bed.
43:25
Speaker 1: Okay, Jeffrey Gentry, blood spatter analyst, you would have a
43:30
Speaker 1: field date with that. And did you hear Dubey trying
43:33
Speaker 1: to tune up and state that there wasn't enough blood
43:35
Speaker 1: to prove she's dead.
43:36
Speaker 9: One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a
43:38
Speaker 9: truck dead, There shouldn't be blood all over a sheet.
43:41
Speaker 9: And then there definitely should not be enough blood in
43:43
Speaker 9: body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is
43:46
Speaker 9: very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a
43:49
Speaker 9: person is not dead after finding all of that, you're
43:52
Speaker 9: absolutely wrong.
43:53
Speaker 1: Question to you, Ryan, is Gibbons, the sisters have been
43:56
Speaker 1: through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing. Isn't it true
44:02
Speaker 1: Brian that family members want desperately to believe their loved
44:07
Speaker 1: one is out there and they can and will be found.
44:10
Speaker 1: How do you break that to someone that they're never
44:15
Speaker 1: going to be found.
44:16
Speaker 11: Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when
44:20
Speaker 11: this forensic evidence and the witness statements, but by the way,
44:26
Speaker 11: lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased.
44:30
Speaker 11: And this has got to be just a horrific experience
44:35
Speaker 11: through this preliminary hearing for Nicky's family to sit through
44:38
Speaker 11: listening to all this evidence brought before them.
44:41
Speaker 1: Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are
44:44
Speaker 1: enduring it. I mean I only sat through a very
44:47
Speaker 1: short portion when I testified at my fiancees murder trial.
44:51
Speaker 1: I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're
44:52
Speaker 1: doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony
44:57
Speaker 1: about Nicki's hair and blood.
45:00
Speaker 13: It's definitely difficult. I just remember, I have to do this.
45:04
Speaker 13: I have to say this because I have to be
45:05
Speaker 13: strong for Nicki's kids, because I want to know what
45:09
Speaker 13: happened and I want to know what they did to her.
45:11
Speaker 1: Joining me, kay Ford and Chloe Saley as difficult as
45:16
Speaker 1: horrible as it is for them. They are enduring gut
45:22
Speaker 1: wrenching and graphic testimony in court, and they are representing
45:26
Speaker 1: their sister Niki, and it ain't over yet. Nicki. Sisters,
45:33
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. We wait as justice unfolds,
45:39
Speaker 1: and now we remember an American hero, Officer Hunter simonsik
45:45
Speaker 1: Kansas CITYPD, killed in the line of duty at age
45:49
Speaker 1: twenty six, leaving behind heartbroken parents Ron and Christaine. American hero,
45:57
Speaker 1: we honor Officer Hunter Simons. Thank you to our guests,
46:02
Speaker 1: especially sisters Kay and Chloe. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye,
46:09
Speaker 1: Frien