Latest / UK Column Radio / Matt Payne | A Thousand Words (Part 1 of 3)

Transcript

Matt Payne | A Thousand Words (Part 1 of 3) · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: It's be interesting.
0:02
Speaker 2: You know. You know I'm going to describe you because
0:05
Speaker 2: I've said it to you. And what's that book that
0:07
Speaker 2: you're just taking your cup off?
0:10
Speaker 1: The idiot? There you go. Part of a fellowship that
0:14
Speaker 1: we used to meet on the internet every night. I
0:18
Speaker 1: used to go about three times a week. It's for
0:21
Speaker 1: my alcohol problems and helping other people. And I was
0:25
Speaker 1: the only one in this group of people that was
0:27
Speaker 1: look COVID, there's something wrong. And didn't have many people
0:30
Speaker 1: in my life anyway because of the breakup on my relationship,
0:33
Speaker 1: and then the people that I did have started thinking
0:36
Speaker 1: I was going nuts. A lot of it's had formed
0:38
Speaker 1: an identity. That's who we were. We were freedom fighters,
0:41
Speaker 1: it's who we are. Take that away from us, and
0:44
Speaker 1: we're back to this this person that we don't really
0:47
Speaker 1: know who we are.
1:09
Speaker 2: We rolling Bob, Matt? Is it lovely?
1:14
Speaker 1: Matt?
1:14
Speaker 2: We started Matt in the Hat?
1:15
Speaker 1: You finished yet?
1:17
Speaker 2: Do you need a fag break? Ladies and gentlemen? Where
1:21
Speaker 2: am I looking? Where's where's Matt's camera? Ladies and gentlemen,
1:24
Speaker 2: we have a very special treat for you today. Matt
1:29
Speaker 2: in the Hat sail to everyone. Hello, Well, I've thought about.
1:44
Speaker 2: I asked you if you wanted to do this about
1:46
Speaker 2: a year ago, that hope. Yes, yeah, everyone said no,
1:51
Speaker 2: don't get matt on, so I didn't. But then you
1:55
Speaker 2: were legitimized by going on the panel with Bob Moran,
1:58
Speaker 2: so I think you're a legitimate the figure in the
2:01
Speaker 2: movement there stepped up to shill level.
2:04
Speaker 1: I've died. This is an honor. I've worked hard to
2:07
Speaker 1: get here. I can't be putting so much work and
2:10
Speaker 1: no one's ever acute. I was accused of being a
2:14
Speaker 1: making Masonic hand signals outside Windsor Castle once and it
2:18
Speaker 1: wasn't to be trusted. It didn't take you know, nobody
2:21
Speaker 1: believed him, so it was a bit disappointed. I've been
2:23
Speaker 1: doing it ever since.
2:46
Speaker 2: So we met about six years ago, didn't we?
2:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you we We met over the internet and
2:53
Speaker 1: then you were organizing walks around the back of Saltings
2:56
Speaker 1: during Lockdown. The madness, which is in the most incredible
3:01
Speaker 1: journey of my life so far, and it's still going,
3:05
Speaker 1: hasn't finished. And it started just before lockdown. As you know,
3:10
Speaker 1: i'd split up with my missus twenty five year relationship. Yeah,
3:13
Speaker 1: I was in pieces and I wanted to change my life,
3:18
Speaker 1: and I started looking into I started. I started this
3:20
Speaker 1: book called The Artist's Way, and started writing poetry and
3:25
Speaker 1: started taking photographs.
3:27
Speaker 2: It's here somewhere, amazing book, but yeah, I only got
3:31
Speaker 2: PA's the first. The first thing you do is write
3:33
Speaker 2: a journal, Isn't it not a journal you meant to write?
3:36
Speaker 2: You just kind of write anything that comes into your head,
3:38
Speaker 2: don't you.
3:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, first thing in the morning, first thing in the morning,
3:41
Speaker 1: and do five minutes relaxation or try and stop. Well,
3:47
Speaker 1: you know, that's just my nerves being on this famous program.
3:52
Speaker 1: And uh. I tried it twenty odd when I first
3:56
Speaker 1: sobered up from drinking, which was twenty odd years twenty five,
3:58
Speaker 1: twenty six years ago, and only got halfway through the
4:01
Speaker 1: book and I stopped it. This time around, there was
4:04
Speaker 1: a girl helping me through it, and I think you
4:07
Speaker 1: need someone to work through with it. I think you
4:10
Speaker 1: need somebody else to work through it.
4:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's why I probably didn't get any further
4:13
Speaker 2: than the first.
4:14
Speaker 1: Quite it was quite incredible. What's happened introduced me to
4:18
Speaker 1: a world that I can't explain to anybody, just some
4:22
Speaker 1: mad dream world that's real.
4:25
Speaker 2: If that it does make sense. Yeah, the dream world,
4:28
Speaker 2: that's real.
4:29
Speaker 1: You know, I've written things and they end up coming
4:31
Speaker 1: through synchronicity, meeting people at the right time, and you know,
4:36
Speaker 1: it's quite incredible. The book did actually say to me
4:40
Speaker 1: that if you're on the right lines, the right people
4:42
Speaker 1: will come into your life. And I wanted to get
4:46
Speaker 1: into making films and wanted to make better videos. And
4:51
Speaker 1: I was at this Freedom Fest in Leicester. I drove
4:57
Speaker 1: up to Leicester by myself to a festival and I
5:01
Speaker 1: think this was the first time in twenty five years
5:04
Speaker 1: have gone away by myself. I was a bit nervous
5:09
Speaker 1: and I ended up in this working man's a working
5:12
Speaker 1: man's social club in a high street. That's where the
5:14
Speaker 1: sat NAV took me to this little village in Lesterns.
5:18
Speaker 1: I walked to what's going on? So I'm here for
5:20
Speaker 1: a festival. Oh that's upstairs. And that weekend I met
5:26
Speaker 1: Phil and I was like, it's going to happen and yeah, well,
5:31
Speaker 1: first of all I managed to speak to and then
5:33
Speaker 1: Dooney came over and interrupted the conversation. But this is
5:35
Speaker 1: quite a humbling experience to see the equipment that this
5:38
Speaker 1: man's got.
5:39
Speaker 2: I know, it's very impressive in it because.
5:40
Speaker 1: There has been certain projects that people have done, and
5:44
Speaker 1: I thought, well, why don't they ask me to do it?
5:46
Speaker 1: When all I've got is my camera? Yeah, and my
5:49
Speaker 1: mobile phone. I thought, well I can do that. I
5:51
Speaker 1: could do that. But I'm looking at this equipment and
5:53
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, you obviously couldn't do this. Matthew.
5:56
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you describe yourself as a poet. Yeah,
5:59
Speaker 2: and you've you've started learning the stick? What's it?
6:09
Speaker 1: Were renamed the aboriginally Linking? No, okay, because I'm getting
6:12
Speaker 1: sick of saying people are drumstick? What right?
6:15
Speaker 2: It's an aboriginal that was from sounds beautiful? Wasn't it
6:18
Speaker 2: got christened? Then? How would I describe you?
6:22
Speaker 1: It's interesting, it.
6:23
Speaker 2: Will be you know. You know I'm going to describe
6:27
Speaker 2: you because I've said it to you. You're and what's
6:29
Speaker 2: that book that you're just taking your cup off?
6:33
Speaker 1: The Idiot? There you go, it's lovely ladies and gentlemen.
6:37
Speaker 1: I hope you're going to read this out.
6:38
Speaker 2: No, no, because I said that to you. And The
6:42
Speaker 2: Idiot is a brilliant book. And I read it years ago,
6:46
Speaker 2: but I can't remember it that well. But I started
6:48
Speaker 2: reading it again with my son, and it's not the
6:51
Speaker 2: idiot in a disparaging way. It doesn't mean the idiot,
6:54
Speaker 2: the mora or the that word. But the idiot is
6:59
Speaker 2: the one who who sees truth and speaks like the
7:04
Speaker 2: fall in that Shakespeare Shakespeare in Fall, the one who
7:07
Speaker 2: speaks truth to power. And there's a film what's the
7:11
Speaker 2: Chancy Gardener? The being? Is it called being there? The
7:15
Speaker 2: Peter Sellers film similar kind of sentiment about the the
7:19
Speaker 2: observer who isn't judging. They're observing in a kind of
7:24
Speaker 2: neutral way, and and they're very they're very neutrality shows
7:28
Speaker 2: up the hypocrisy, the you know, the superficiality, all all
7:33
Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. Their ego isn't overly constraining them.
7:39
Speaker 2: We've all got it. We've all got egos, and we
7:41
Speaker 2: obviously we know that. But I always thought you was
7:45
Speaker 2: someone who basically didn't give a about what people thought,
7:49
Speaker 2: and you would just you had a kind of free
7:51
Speaker 2: flowing And maybe this comes from your experience of getting
7:55
Speaker 2: over addiction. You've become a performer. Yeah, what was really
8:01
Speaker 2: lovely at Sounds Beautiful Festival. You had a slot, you
8:05
Speaker 2: had an hour slot and all you all you were
8:08
Speaker 2: talking about was who you could promote, who you could
8:10
Speaker 2: big up, who you could get on stage, who you
8:11
Speaker 2: could encourage, people who might not have had the courage
8:16
Speaker 2: to get up on stage before, and you would give
8:19
Speaker 2: them that chance. Or that's how I see you, like
8:21
Speaker 2: someone who just wants to be a positive light in
8:25
Speaker 2: all this nonsense.
8:26
Speaker 1: Victorious, I saw just help the way everybody helped each
8:31
Speaker 1: other and encouraged each other passing by Fan's Victorious And
8:38
Speaker 1: we are the most canceled band in bright and we've
8:41
Speaker 1: had our figs canceled. People know our use because you
8:45
Speaker 1: only had to think a certain way. In this country,
8:47
Speaker 1: we're not allowed. The band of Brighton parents basically concerned
8:54
Speaker 1: parents that met in the park and started playing musical
8:57
Speaker 1: instruments together and went on videos made of them by
9:01
Speaker 1: Hitler talking about them players through lockdown. There's always police
9:05
Speaker 1: wherever you.
9:06
Speaker 2: Played, Hitler videos going.
9:13
Speaker 1: And I remember you played at the Rialito and Jimmy
9:17
Speaker 1: Leiggs was a bit nervous about he had his own
9:20
Speaker 1: set and I don't think you'd ever played to the
9:22
Speaker 1: public before, and it was either Caroline or Emmy said, Tom,
9:26
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. The people that are watching, don't care.
9:31
Speaker 1: They just want you to be They just want you
9:33
Speaker 1: to want to see you. I don't care whether you're
9:35
Speaker 1: good or not. And that always stayed with me, that
9:39
Speaker 1: there was a different people just wanted to see the
9:41
Speaker 1: best in it. And I saw Dean the way Dean
9:43
Speaker 1: was helping people when we went to London, and I
9:46
Speaker 1: just saw people helping each other freely and always encouraged
9:51
Speaker 1: Victorious encouraged me, people who encouraged me online with my poetry.
9:55
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this is incredible. Just what And
9:59
Speaker 1: I realized that I'll call it the screen for anything.
10:04
Speaker 1: Mass produced is all everybody says. It's controlled. Whether it
10:08
Speaker 1: is or not is neither it nor there. It's very
10:11
Speaker 1: manufactured though, and yeah there's no doesn't seem really soul
10:16
Speaker 1: in it. It's just purely profit. Everything is profit. Whereas
10:21
Speaker 1: I was introduced to this altruistic movement of people that
10:25
Speaker 1: just wanted just wanted truth.
10:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can relate that, having been in bands
10:33
Speaker 2: and stuff in Brighton for years and then and then
10:37
Speaker 2: when we played that gig at the Reality So it
10:41
Speaker 2: was October, wasn't it. I know it was a start
10:42
Speaker 2: of October twenty twenty and everyone needed a kind of
10:48
Speaker 2: an outlet for the pencil they've had lockdown. And then
10:52
Speaker 2: that that gig was just to come in together with people,
10:54
Speaker 2: wasn't it in a quite extraordinary way. And it was
10:57
Speaker 2: such a thing for me having been in music circles
11:02
Speaker 2: and seeing the kind of egos and you know, and
11:06
Speaker 2: I got I got caught up in that as a
11:08
Speaker 2: young man, you know, and then to break out of
11:11
Speaker 2: that and just to see everyone in this high of
11:14
Speaker 2: just encouragement and love. Really, yeah, it was quite life changing.
11:20
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people experienced that at that
11:22
Speaker 2: time or inspiring.
11:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was fortunate as well because I was
11:27
Speaker 1: still in contact with a girl that was working through
11:29
Speaker 1: this book with video calls. I used to go. I
11:33
Speaker 1: was a part of a fellowship that we used to
11:37
Speaker 1: meet on the internet every night. I used to go
11:40
Speaker 1: about three times a week for my alcohol problems and
11:44
Speaker 1: helping other people. And I was the only one in
11:47
Speaker 1: this group of people that was COVID. There's something wrong,
11:51
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us probably it's a
11:55
Speaker 1: bit like a man in Plato's cave that gets out
11:57
Speaker 1: of the cave and comes back to early He hasn't
12:00
Speaker 1: allowed you know, some sort of going onto the fifth
12:03
Speaker 1: it's Bill Gates. They're child they're doing this, They're doing
12:06
Speaker 1: you know, and coming out of all sorts of stuff
12:08
Speaker 1: and driving them mad, and it's really upset. At one
12:10
Speaker 1: point I was told, if you carry on, we're going
12:13
Speaker 1: to reject you from the meeting, Matthew. And that means
12:16
Speaker 1: because of the zoom settings, you can never get back
12:18
Speaker 1: in again. You can only share your experience, Matthew, not
12:21
Speaker 1: your opinions. Everybody's got opinions.
12:23
Speaker 2: We just want your experience, which kind of makes sense.
12:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. You don't you
12:29
Speaker 1: know people are going there the sober up. They're not
12:30
Speaker 1: going to listen to me talking about self assembling nanobots
12:35
Speaker 1: or whatever I was talking about. And I thought about
12:39
Speaker 1: to eat humble Pie. And I remember going in on
12:42
Speaker 1: the Sunday or it could have been a Saturday night
12:45
Speaker 1: on whatever day it was. I said, he and they're
12:47
Speaker 1: all at waiting. I've just been in a church with
12:50
Speaker 1: Square and done a flash mob with that band I
12:52
Speaker 1: hang about with. I said, I was there. It keeps
12:54
Speaker 1: security back and the girls. I remember just holding it
12:58
Speaker 1: and I just went on from there. I tried, you know,
13:02
Speaker 1: all the people I was going to protest with were
13:04
Speaker 1: talking all sorts of things, and people were reading the
13:07
Speaker 1: light paper. I couldn't even read that paper. It was
13:09
Speaker 1: too frightening for me, some of the stuff in it.
13:11
Speaker 1: And I thought, well, if I can't handle this, Joe
13:14
Speaker 1: Public won't be able to. So I did try and
13:16
Speaker 1: keep it too they're lying to us. I tried to
13:20
Speaker 1: keep it as simple as that, but I probably did
13:22
Speaker 1: get carried away with the mass hysteria of they're injecting
13:27
Speaker 1: nanobots and the trackers.
13:28
Speaker 2: Okay, so there's a lot of people probably relate to that.
13:31
Speaker 2: I think there's a I mean, I was sort of
13:33
Speaker 2: lucky that I come across a lot of this stuff
13:37
Speaker 2: years ago because I had a friend who gave me
13:38
Speaker 2: a day light book right in the previous century. Yeah,
13:41
Speaker 2: so I was sort of had a bit of a.
13:43
Speaker 1: Before COVID BC.
13:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like literally like ninety seven, I think, so
13:50
Speaker 2: I had a bit of a bit of a context
13:52
Speaker 2: for when it came. That's not to say I didn't,
13:56
Speaker 2: you know, I had it all by a long shot.
13:58
Speaker 2: I didn't. But like you, you bought into it, didn't you, Yeah, badly?
14:03
Speaker 2: And you were like real, full on scared.
14:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, terrified, right, I locked down. I got some information.
14:13
Speaker 1: It was the minutes from the Cobra meeting, and it
14:17
Speaker 1: was the information that they were given by the Imperial
14:20
Speaker 1: College about this new disease. And it was terrifying. It's
14:25
Speaker 1: like wow. And then I read what the politicians were
14:28
Speaker 1: talking about in the meeting and I said, I showed you.
14:31
Speaker 1: The mum must have read this. I was going to
14:33
Speaker 1: lock the door anyway. This was a week before end
14:35
Speaker 1: and she said, just locked the door. I said, they're
14:36
Speaker 1: trying to they're trying to kill old people. They're trying
14:39
Speaker 1: to get rid of the old people, because you know,
14:41
Speaker 1: the old people do need shielding from this. And yeah,
14:45
Speaker 1: it was crazy when the brown letters used to tell you.
14:47
Speaker 2: Say they're trying to kill the old people. What do
14:48
Speaker 2: you mean? Because you didn't think they were out to
14:51
Speaker 2: kill old people.
14:52
Speaker 1: No, I thought there was a disease, this real virus.
14:55
Speaker 1: But because Boris wasn'tknocking this down because he was birthday,
14:59
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is nuts, going to kill everybody. Yeah,
15:02
Speaker 1: get they're trying to kill kill your mom. They're trying
15:04
Speaker 1: to get rid of so any brown envelopes that got delivered.
15:08
Speaker 1: It was me. I used to put the brown and
15:10
Speaker 1: put the gloves on. I'd open them and read them
15:13
Speaker 1: to her. And yeah, whenever I went outside to buy anything,
15:17
Speaker 1: I left to birth gloves on for absolute crackers. Told
15:22
Speaker 1: all the neighbors that I had COVID and Tom we
15:24
Speaker 1: aught to piss off so they wouldn't come anywhere near us.
15:26
Speaker 1: Banned the family. Incredible, absolutely incredible. But and people around me,
15:35
Speaker 1: everybody around me thought I was nuts. My family thought
15:38
Speaker 1: I'd gone nuts. And then in two or three weeks time,
15:42
Speaker 1: they were phoning me out. Oh you were right, Oh
15:44
Speaker 1: my god, you know, because we went into lockdown and
15:46
Speaker 1: they started putting all these deaths up on TV. And
15:49
Speaker 1: suddenly I was the family hero. I was the hero
15:51
Speaker 1: in the area.
15:52
Speaker 2: Oh, Matthew knows. They realized what was to come.
15:54
Speaker 1: Matthew knows, and like, for once in my life, I've
15:57
Speaker 1: got it right. And I was like, oh, was so great.
16:00
Speaker 1: Before you're doing this, Matthew. You know, people were phoning
16:03
Speaker 1: me up and saying, how do you know these figures?
16:06
Speaker 1: I said, I'm looking at the exponential curve. There's been
16:09
Speaker 1: four thousand and five hundred deaths. It will be fifteen
16:11
Speaker 1: thousand next week, you know. And I was getting it
16:13
Speaker 1: all right in the first three or four weeks. All
16:16
Speaker 1: my figures matched, and then I started looking at my
16:20
Speaker 1: surroundings and.
16:23
Speaker 2: So what was it?
16:23
Speaker 1: Then?
16:23
Speaker 2: What what was it that turned you?
16:27
Speaker 1: I went fishing on the beach at Telscombe. I mean
16:31
Speaker 1: it was fabulous for me. I live on top of
16:35
Speaker 1: a cliff top. There's a little beach there that nobody
16:38
Speaker 1: really goes to. It's deserted. Had the beach to myself,
16:41
Speaker 1: doing my stacking my stones, recovering from this relationship. And
16:46
Speaker 1: then the Easter holidays came along and where I'd been
16:50
Speaker 1: going out to this beach and catching bass, and it
16:52
Speaker 1: was empty. It was just packed well, I mean I've
16:54
Speaker 1: never seen anything. It was like shoulder at the shoulder
16:57
Speaker 1: and all these families were coming down the steps and
16:59
Speaker 1: they all hold onto the handrail and I was thinking,
17:02
Speaker 1: oh my god, everybody is going to catch it. And
17:05
Speaker 1: my son was fishing women. I gave him a lift
17:07
Speaker 1: that night. I said, please don't go out, so it's
17:10
Speaker 1: going to be really bad. And I just started just
17:15
Speaker 1: like this isn't people like people? The people where I live.
17:19
Speaker 1: There's a lot of old people and it was one
17:22
Speaker 1: of the first places that got a case of COVID
17:25
Speaker 1: and no one was dying, and my mother was shaking.
17:29
Speaker 1: I went out and got a generator. I was learning
17:31
Speaker 1: out to fish. I started uh planting vegetables. I promised
17:36
Speaker 1: my mother I'd keep her alive. And she said, well,
17:38
Speaker 1: we can't live just off your vegetables and fish your
17:41
Speaker 1: low math. How are we going to do this? And
17:44
Speaker 1: I said, don't worry. Everybody's got a freezer. When they
17:47
Speaker 1: start dying, I'll just be kicking their back doors in.
17:50
Speaker 1: Everybody's going to die. Do you mean it's going to
17:52
Speaker 1: be horrific. This is going to be really bad. But
17:55
Speaker 1: so in a way I was sort of looking forward
17:57
Speaker 1: to it. There's a pulch up the top of the road,
17:58
Speaker 1: and so I'm going to have that. And because well
18:00
Speaker 1: he's not even young, I said, he's going to die.
18:02
Speaker 1: And when it goes off, I should edit that part
18:05
Speaker 1: out because I wanted this. I think it's this poor
18:09
Speaker 1: seven six seven or so. I was looking forward to it.
18:10
Speaker 1: Also in a way, it was a bit of a
18:13
Speaker 1: you promised me in apocular, you promised me a disaster
18:16
Speaker 1: movie and I never got it. Yeah, and then when
18:20
Speaker 1: I went up to London in November finally to see
18:22
Speaker 1: what was going on, that that really shocked me.
18:25
Speaker 2: What do you mean you went up to London to
18:26
Speaker 2: see what was going on?
18:27
Speaker 1: Well, I knew they were doing protests.
18:30
Speaker 2: How did you know that then, because a lot of
18:31
Speaker 2: people don't even get to that point.
18:33
Speaker 1: I do you know what, I don't know how this happened.
18:36
Speaker 1: I started voicing my opinions that it was wrong that
18:40
Speaker 1: we were being lied to, and I was taking about.
18:43
Speaker 2: How did you get from that to so you just
18:45
Speaker 2: wanted you saw people?
18:47
Speaker 1: Oh, I went in to Brighton and I saw Brighton,
18:50
Speaker 1: the Brighton Beach packed, and I saw people pressing the
18:52
Speaker 1: button across the roads. And I used to use a
18:54
Speaker 1: light and to press lift buttons or anything. I'm like,
18:57
Speaker 1: no one's taking any notice. This is crazy. Maybe it
19:00
Speaker 1: only spreads outside. Maybe it's only old people. And uh
19:06
Speaker 1: it was when they used to print. They used to
19:10
Speaker 1: tell you every week the fatality rate and the case rate,
19:14
Speaker 1: so they'll be how many infections there were, how many
19:17
Speaker 1: cases there were, and how many fatalities there were, and
19:20
Speaker 1: there was a set ratio between the two case rate
19:25
Speaker 1: fatality rate, and then they started doing mass testing and
19:30
Speaker 1: telling you were that there were cases, but the case
19:33
Speaker 1: is when you receive medical it's like, wow, so this
19:38
Speaker 1: doesn't actually mean anything. This is this Trump was mad.
19:41
Speaker 1: The more testing you do, the more cases you're going
19:42
Speaker 1: to get. But they don't actually mean anything. And it
19:46
Speaker 1: was like, this is all. This is mad, that this
19:49
Speaker 1: is crazy. Why can't people see this? And it looked
19:52
Speaker 1: to me like it was deliberate. They're actually trying to
19:54
Speaker 1: tell us we're taking the piss out of you.
19:57
Speaker 2: And that's quite a turn around, isn't it, from like
20:01
Speaker 2: just being absolutely petrified.
20:03
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, do you know when they did Black Lives
20:05
Speaker 1: Matter protests as well. I was looking at that and
20:07
Speaker 1: that was like quite obvious. There isn't a pandemic when
20:10
Speaker 1: you've got people packed together like that, And well, maybe
20:13
Speaker 1: it's a summer thing. And I remember saying to my mother,
20:16
Speaker 1: you know what's going to happen By the time winter
20:17
Speaker 1: comes around. The old grannies who've been in locked in
20:21
Speaker 1: isolation for so long, they're going to have had enough
20:24
Speaker 1: and they're going to want to go out and do
20:25
Speaker 1: some crispy shopping. And that's when it's all going to
20:28
Speaker 1: start again. And in a way, that's basically what people
20:32
Speaker 1: had had enough by the window started flouting the rules.
20:36
Speaker 1: But because of the Internet, different people, you know, I
20:42
Speaker 1: was very lonely. I didn't have many people in my
20:44
Speaker 1: life anyway because of the breakup on my relationship, and
20:47
Speaker 1: then the people that I did have started thinking I
20:50
Speaker 1: was going nuts because I couldn't stop talk saying this
20:53
Speaker 1: is all nonsense. They're trying to kill us. They're trying
20:55
Speaker 1: to do.
20:56
Speaker 2: So when you say, okay, so I'm just trying to
20:57
Speaker 2: get my head around that. Because I haven't really talked
20:59
Speaker 2: to you about this, but I find it quite interesting
21:01
Speaker 2: and a lot of people watching might find it interesting
21:03
Speaker 2: as the kind of case study of someone who can
21:05
Speaker 2: go from you know, really just believe in the whole thing,
21:10
Speaker 2: and then so was it your so basically was your intuition.
21:17
Speaker 1: I used to go out and take pictures of the sunset.
21:19
Speaker 1: I live on a cliff top, so taking pictures of
21:21
Speaker 1: sunsets every night. Yeah, And I think there's something in
21:24
Speaker 1: that because as it's going on, I think this is
21:29
Speaker 1: better than the news. This is incredible. I was really
21:31
Speaker 1: appreciating these sunsets and it's incredible. It's not you know,
21:34
Speaker 1: taking the time out to take twenty minutes piece and quiet,
21:38
Speaker 1: and then I was putting it on social media and
21:40
Speaker 1: telling them what time I took the picture, on what
21:43
Speaker 1: they were watching at the top. This is better than
21:45
Speaker 1: the seven o'clock. This is better than six questions, This
21:48
Speaker 1: is better than East End is. Surely it doesn't cost
21:50
Speaker 1: you anything.
21:51
Speaker 2: Lass year i won the Sussex Portrait Artist of the
21:54
Speaker 2: Year competition. It's a timed event where you're four hours
21:56
Speaker 2: to complete a portrait. And this year I'll be taking
21:58
Speaker 2: part in a larger national company and I've been practicing
22:01
Speaker 2: timed portraits from photographs sent by friends, mainly from the Hope,
22:04
Speaker 2: Sussex community. These portraits will be on display at the
22:07
Speaker 2: Hope Sussex Music Festival in August, so get your tickets,
22:10
Speaker 2: come along and support a brilliant homeschooling project. As a
22:12
Speaker 2: result of this, I've decided to offer what I'm calling
22:14
Speaker 2: day portraits alongside my standard portrait commission. Normally, I'll spend
22:18
Speaker 2: a week or two on a portrait, making sure the
22:20
Speaker 2: likeness is one hundred percent accurate and offering revisions and
22:22
Speaker 2: complex backgrounds. My day portraits are simpler and cost only
22:26
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty pounds, a fraction of the cost
22:28
Speaker 2: of a full commission, and so far the response has
22:30
Speaker 2: been one hundred percent positive. So if you're looking for
22:33
Speaker 2: someone unique to either gift or having your home, go
22:35
Speaker 2: to my website Jakefern dot co dot uk and add
22:38
Speaker 2: it to your basket. I'm sure that you'll love what
22:40
Speaker 2: you receive.
22:41
Speaker 1: And the ladder was working with we had to stop
22:46
Speaker 1: work and then he came back around three weeks late.
22:49
Speaker 1: He says, come, maf we can go back to work.
22:51
Speaker 1: And it was just in the three weeks I'd had
22:53
Speaker 1: off wherever time and an office that you ever can
22:56
Speaker 1: go back to work. But I'm not interested anymore in
22:59
Speaker 1: this week. Got to get to on a quit a day.
23:01
Speaker 1: We've got to start at seven in the morning. I
23:02
Speaker 1: don't really want to work, to be honest with you,
23:04
Speaker 1: I work from ten o'clock to three o'clock and I'm
23:07
Speaker 1: not working hard. Yeah, yeah, that's all right, that's all right.
23:10
Speaker 1: But he still had it in him that we've got,
23:12
Speaker 1: you know, and after about a month, IM just like,
23:15
Speaker 1: we can't do this anymore. But I'm just not interested
23:18
Speaker 1: and I'm not interested in chasing money anymore. I'm just
23:22
Speaker 1: not bothered in this because.
23:23
Speaker 2: You were quite successful. You had a coffee shop, didn't you,
23:27
Speaker 2: and stuff you Yeah, before I saw living the life
23:30
Speaker 2: a bit.
23:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know it's funny. I was just I
23:33
Speaker 1: popped outside. I used to live in the next road
23:35
Speaker 1: along from this. Yeah, and that beautiful view of the
23:38
Speaker 1: value you've got there was what I used to look
23:40
Speaker 1: at every single day, and I was just like, wow,
23:45
Speaker 1: that was twenty nineteen. I lived in there. It's now
23:49
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, twenty six, twenty twenty six. What's happened? How
23:54
Speaker 1: my life? The difference between back living in that life
23:57
Speaker 1: and back then iffee shop with my partner. We had
24:02
Speaker 1: a south facing bungalow in Saltine. You know, I had
24:06
Speaker 1: a convertible sports car. She had a convertible sports car.
24:09
Speaker 1: The kid who got picked for Brighton my older lad
24:13
Speaker 1: And yeah, we had this coffee shop that had a
24:17
Speaker 1: license on it. So it was a wine bar in
24:19
Speaker 1: the evening if you like. It wasn't really and that
24:22
Speaker 1: was my sort of my identity. This is who I was.
24:25
Speaker 1: So when I split up with the missus and the
24:27
Speaker 1: shop went and everything, I was just left with me,
24:30
Speaker 1: right the car had gone, the shop had gone, the
24:32
Speaker 1: house had gone. I was just this sad, fifty five
24:34
Speaker 1: year old man living with his mother with no future.
24:38
Speaker 1: And that's no identity, and that's why I wanted to
24:40
Speaker 1: rebuild myself.
24:41
Speaker 2: That's where a lot of a lot of people think,
24:43
Speaker 2: isn't it sink? A lot of people would sink in
24:46
Speaker 2: that situation. They're just they'd fall off the you know,
24:50
Speaker 2: they go back to drink, they take pills, antidepressants, suicide,
24:57
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
24:58
Speaker 1: I said, Look, I'm hopelessly you probably have noticed this
25:03
Speaker 1: hope or I was hopelessly insecure. I'm a lot better now.
25:07
Speaker 1: So what was going to happen was I was either
25:09
Speaker 1: going to go back to my partner because we had
25:12
Speaker 1: this mad codependent relationship, but we were both determined we
25:15
Speaker 1: got to stop. Or I was just going to start
25:17
Speaker 1: up another relationship with another lunatic. Right. And I don't
25:19
Speaker 1: say that disparagingly about my ex partner. I think the
25:22
Speaker 1: world Jess the mother, you know, and I would do
25:25
Speaker 1: anything to help her, but to put up with me
25:28
Speaker 1: for twenty five years, what we put each other through
25:32
Speaker 1: was crazy, and I knew I was just going to
25:34
Speaker 1: do it with another woman. I knew that, and I said,
25:37
Speaker 1: I can't do this. I've got a change. There's something
25:40
Speaker 1: seriously wrong with me. So there's a lot of self
25:42
Speaker 1: examination with me.
25:43
Speaker 2: But that, Yeah, that's quite unusual. That's what I mean. Really,
25:45
Speaker 2: a lot of people instead of doing that self examination.
25:48
Speaker 2: You hit a point in your midlife. If it doesn't
25:53
Speaker 2: if it's not working out and you end up divorced
25:55
Speaker 2: or whatever, you hit rock bottom, don't you. And a
26:01
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of men, particularly struggle with expressing
26:04
Speaker 2: feelings and motions, all that kind of stuff, and they
26:07
Speaker 2: can mid life crisis. Yeah, buy a sports car. Yeah,
26:10
Speaker 2: well it can go either way, can't it? The camera?
26:13
Speaker 1: And then I was lucky COVID started. That was my
26:15
Speaker 1: mid life COVID was my midlife crisis. It's incredible, the
26:21
Speaker 1: pandemic that just keeps giving. I'm trying to work. Have
26:24
Speaker 1: you figured out that the glasses have changed yet?
26:27
Speaker 2: Change from what.
26:28
Speaker 1: What you took a picture of? Yeah?
26:32
Speaker 2: Always some kind of distortion on the lens. I'm like
26:34
Speaker 2: looking at that, I'm going on these ones are thinners?
26:40
Speaker 2: Just correct it on it.
26:43
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to say anything to you. I thought
26:45
Speaker 1: I pulled this off, see how many different glasses before
26:51
Speaker 1: he notices.
26:53
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to I'm going to stick with the photograph.
26:56
Speaker 1: I'll just put it back on.
27:00
Speaker 2: So yeah, but for some reason you did have the
27:07
Speaker 2: strength to do that work, that self work.
27:10
Speaker 1: Well, we pain, emotional pain and humiliation, that's what. Yeah,
27:15
Speaker 1: that was a driving factory and humiliation.
27:17
Speaker 2: But it does. But it is often a crisis that
27:21
Speaker 2: leads to a kind of awakening, isn't it. Yeah, But
27:25
Speaker 2: you have to you have to allow the you have
27:29
Speaker 2: to allow yourself to feel the pain. I think. And
27:32
Speaker 2: that's what a lot of people, don't they self meant.
27:33
Speaker 2: That's what I meant by like then the drugs or
27:35
Speaker 2: drink or whatever.
27:36
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean I was quite like somebody
27:39
Speaker 1: took me to one side and said, Matthew suffering a delusion.
27:43
Speaker 1: You actually are deluded about your life. You're never going
27:46
Speaker 1: to make your partner happy, becare you know that right?
27:49
Speaker 1: And you never could. You've been trying for twenty five years,
27:52
Speaker 1: You've been trying to. When I started seeing it through
27:55
Speaker 1: the delusion of myself of who I thought I was,
27:58
Speaker 1: that was really upsetting to this legend of my own
28:01
Speaker 1: lunch time isn't next to you real, It's all in
28:03
Speaker 1: my head. I'm not the person I think it was.
28:05
Speaker 2: Really I just think this is I just think it's
28:08
Speaker 2: really important that you know. Not enough people do that,
28:12
Speaker 2: and this is why we get stuck in these patterns.
28:15
Speaker 2: And I don't think enough people do that. I think
28:17
Speaker 2: this is why we see the problems in the movement.
28:22
Speaker 2: It's for the same reason is that people are getting stuck.
28:25
Speaker 2: They get attached to an identity or a belief, but
28:30
Speaker 2: for some reason, some people find it a little bit
28:32
Speaker 2: easier to just look at themselves. And that's why I
28:37
Speaker 2: think I've always admired you because you know, you've said
28:41
Speaker 2: things which I thought you were off on. But I've
28:45
Speaker 2: always felt that if I was to counter that or
28:52
Speaker 2: a whole no, no, no, not if like there's some people
28:57
Speaker 2: that if you challenge them, you just know you're going
28:59
Speaker 2: to get shipped back, right Like if you if you say, oh,
29:03
Speaker 2: well I think this, then they get prickly and they
29:06
Speaker 2: get but you never you never had that. It was
29:08
Speaker 2: like you just so you say you're insecure, but I
29:11
Speaker 2: think actually that comes from a secure and in a
29:16
Speaker 2: sense of strength, and that's actually what I feel with
29:18
Speaker 2: you not an insecurity is that there's a kind of
29:22
Speaker 2: there's a kind of self belief that you are happy
29:24
Speaker 2: to You're happy to be challenged, and you're happy to
29:28
Speaker 2: sit in that. I don't know things. This might be
29:30
Speaker 2: my opinion, but what do I know kind of thing
29:33
Speaker 2: and I just think I mean.
29:34
Speaker 1: One after making a fool of yourself during COVID, like
29:37
Speaker 1: the early days of COVID, like, hang on, I'm not
29:39
Speaker 1: going to make this mistake again.
29:40
Speaker 2: I could be wrong, Yeah, exactly, And I've made it
29:43
Speaker 2: for myself, and you know, and I think this, and
29:45
Speaker 2: I say that to my son. You have to make
29:48
Speaker 2: you have to be prepared to make it for all
29:49
Speaker 2: yourself and not worry about it. And I think that's
29:53
Speaker 2: the only way. I think the people who who aren't
29:55
Speaker 2: willing to do that, you just get caught in a trap.
30:00
Speaker 1: But I went on, this is important. I'd like to
30:02
Speaker 1: if we can somehow work this in. Before COVID started,
30:07
Speaker 1: I made a list I wanted. I told this person,
30:10
Speaker 1: I said, I want to be able to walk down
30:12
Speaker 1: the street and a pair of open toe sandals, canvas
30:17
Speaker 1: linen trous is, a tie tie tea shirt. I'll even
30:19
Speaker 1: get a little one of those little plats ponytails and
30:23
Speaker 1: stick it to the back of my head and just
30:26
Speaker 1: look at like a complete and walk down and walk
30:29
Speaker 1: along the seafront and with my headphones in and just
30:31
Speaker 1: start doing a silly dance and not care what anybody
30:35
Speaker 1: thinks about me. And I was really because I was
30:38
Speaker 1: I'd like to be able to tell people I can
30:39
Speaker 1: do that. And I think a lot of people would
30:41
Speaker 1: like to be able to say they can do that,
30:43
Speaker 1: but you can't. The self obossession is so great you
30:46
Speaker 1: just can't. But I actually started practicing doing it. I said,
30:49
Speaker 1: I want to be able to do this. I really
31:00
Speaker 1: love it. And I also said that I wanted to
31:08
Speaker 1: be able if people took the piss out of me,
31:09
Speaker 1: I could just laugh with them and say you're right,
31:12
Speaker 1: But if somebody comes too close to me, and then
31:14
Speaker 1: I should be able to defend myself. So I went
31:17
Speaker 1: to self defense classes. Yeah, yeah, I was actually looking
31:21
Speaker 1: forward to someone taking the piss out of thee. And
31:24
Speaker 1: I used to do it three times a week. I
31:25
Speaker 1: got trained privately for it. And I was walking doing
31:30
Speaker 1: my silly dancing while I was doing the stone towers
31:32
Speaker 1: and just and that COVID really helped me. The protest
31:38
Speaker 1: really helped me to cultivate this character. If you like
31:41
Speaker 1: this identity of somebody who doesn't care and gets on top.
31:43
Speaker 2: Of plas, so you call it an identity, then so
31:46
Speaker 2: you think you're like you were still.
31:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think when when it all died down,
31:51
Speaker 1: I think quite a lot of us were yearning for
31:54
Speaker 1: the protests to continue when we were still doing what
31:56
Speaker 1: we were doing and from the rooftops, even though paintently
32:00
Speaker 1: nobody else is interested. And I can see why because
32:03
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of it's had formed an identity.
32:06
Speaker 1: That's who we were. We were freedom fighters. Yeah, it's
32:09
Speaker 1: who we are. Take that away from us, and we're
32:12
Speaker 1: back to be this person that we don't really know
32:15
Speaker 1: who we are. We don't, do you know what I mean?
32:16
Speaker 1: We're Yeah.
32:18
Speaker 2: I remember when I was when I was, I was
32:22
Speaker 2: vegetarian for it back nearly twenty years, I think, yeah,
32:27
Speaker 2: And I was so much a part of my identity.
32:31
Speaker 2: I wasn't vegan, so I wasn't like full on kind
32:35
Speaker 2: of animal rights, but but I was definitely identify definitely
32:39
Speaker 2: identified as a vegetarian, Like when I when I contemplated
32:43
Speaker 2: it in meat. Again. The hardest part, well, there were two.
32:46
Speaker 2: It was hard because I genuinely was struggling with the
32:50
Speaker 2: dilemma of causing suffering to animals. But just as difficult,
32:54
Speaker 2: equally as difficult, was my letting go of the identity
32:58
Speaker 2: of myself as someone who's vegetarian.
33:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:03
Speaker 2: I don't care about animals, you know, And I think
33:07
Speaker 2: that's just what we all do to some extent everything
33:11
Speaker 2: I suppose. I suppose in a way it's a sort
33:14
Speaker 2: of natural thing because you you you, you decide what
33:19
Speaker 2: you think is the right thing to do as a
33:20
Speaker 2: person in life. That's how you decide your actions every
33:24
Speaker 2: day you get on and a good person would do this,
33:27
Speaker 2: and then you are going to identify with that to
33:28
Speaker 2: some extent, aren't you.
33:30
Speaker 1: So I think you just get tricked by your own ego. Yeah,
33:33
Speaker 1: it's to deflect you away from who you really are. Yeah,
33:38
Speaker 1: because probably you're not content with who you are, and
33:43
Speaker 1: you live in this materialistic world where enough is never enough.
33:47
Speaker 1: Getting the new car is going to give you a
33:49
Speaker 1: bit of happiness getting the new do you know what
33:50
Speaker 1: I mean? It's this material world where we're constantly trying
33:53
Speaker 1: to fix ourselves or constantly try and improve ourselves, but
33:58
Speaker 1: we don't know how to.
33:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
34:01
Speaker 1: I went to the Standing the Light Festival, Jake, Yeah,
34:06
Speaker 1: and I met a girl there who really inspired me, because,
34:13
Speaker 1: as you say, the freedom movement, et cetera sort of
34:17
Speaker 1: fractures and who's doing what. Most a lot of people
34:20
Speaker 1: now are just talking nonsense about each other. It's got
34:24
Speaker 1: quite toxic.
34:25
Speaker 2: Has got a bit toxic. Hasn't it terrible? But yeah,
34:29
Speaker 2: go on.
34:29
Speaker 1: But I met this girl and she's walking around her
34:31
Speaker 1: hometown at night with four other girls, she said, two
34:34
Speaker 1: other girls at the time, one of the ninety one
34:36
Speaker 1: years old or eighty odd years old, giving out rape
34:39
Speaker 1: alarms and drink covers to stop the girls getting drugged up.
34:44
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, there's somebody that's actually going out
34:47
Speaker 1: and doing something. And she didn't want any applause. Somebody
34:50
Speaker 1: tried to tell me I didn't know you you got
34:53
Speaker 1: any and she was like, please don't tell him about me.
34:55
Speaker 1: I don't. I just want to keep it low key
34:58
Speaker 1: this time, and U it really I really admired her,
35:02
Speaker 1: and I came away with a sense of purpose and
35:04
Speaker 1: a sort of renewed sense of purpose, if that makes
35:07
Speaker 1: any sense, And I put a poem up that I
35:10
Speaker 1: wrote seven years ago when I was seeing a creative
35:15
Speaker 1: writing psychotherapist, and it's about it's basically about a bloke
35:18
Speaker 1: who's battering his wife and scaring his kids and me
35:22
Speaker 1: stepping in and having a word with him and telling
35:24
Speaker 1: him about my past.
35:25
Speaker 2: And is this based on experience or just.
35:27
Speaker 1: A bit of both? Really a bit yeah? And I
35:31
Speaker 1: remember saying my therapist and I want to read this
35:33
Speaker 1: out in public somewhere. I want to read this on stage.
35:35
Speaker 1: And she said, you won't be able to read this
35:37
Speaker 1: in public without crying, Matthew, without breaking down and crying.
35:41
Speaker 1: And I put it on Facebook about three years ago,
35:45
Speaker 1: three or four years ago, and people contacted me said,
35:47
Speaker 1: there's everything okay, Math, what's going on? Do you want
35:50
Speaker 1: to have you sort of the feller out of the
35:52
Speaker 1: police involved. It's like that, it's a natural, fictitious. And
35:56
Speaker 1: I put it up again recently and that that girl
35:58
Speaker 1: contact him and she said, my god, kind of do
36:00
Speaker 1: you mind if I share this in the ladies groups
36:02
Speaker 1: I'm in And I was like, it's not the ladies
36:05
Speaker 1: that need it's not the ladies that need to hear it,
36:09
Speaker 1: it's the men we need to look at ourselves. And
36:12
Speaker 1: another girl that was there saw it, and she sent
36:19
Speaker 1: me her poem about a girl that was walking the
36:21
Speaker 1: streets and got picked up by a man who saved
36:25
Speaker 1: her but then wouldn't let her go course of control
36:28
Speaker 1: and basically raped her. And it made me cry, and
36:32
Speaker 1: that's why I asked her if she would want to
36:34
Speaker 1: come on stage with me. It sounds beautiful when I
36:36
Speaker 1: got the stage for Sophil and Tom, because I think
36:38
Speaker 1: people need to hear this.
36:40
Speaker 2: And that's what's her name, Charlotte, Charlotte.
36:43
Speaker 1: And I told her about it, and she said, well,
36:46
Speaker 1: that's all right, I'll bring a box of tissues and
36:49
Speaker 1: if you can hold them if I start crying, And
36:52
Speaker 1: neither of us did, which is why I did what
36:55
Speaker 1: I did at the on Bob Moran's slot. I'm still
37:00
Speaker 1: undecided whether I should have done that or not, whether
37:03
Speaker 1: it was a good thing to do or not. I
37:04
Speaker 1: don't honestly know. If I was Bob Moran, I would
37:07
Speaker 1: probably be a little bit pissed off, disappointed, shocked, But
37:13
Speaker 1: I don't know whether I should apologize to him or not.
37:15
Speaker 1: Obviously I am sorry for that, but there's a part
37:19
Speaker 1: of me thinking, no, people need what are we doing? Yes, well,
37:22
Speaker 1: just to fill people in.
37:24
Speaker 2: So we were at Sounds Beautiful Festival and there was
37:27
Speaker 2: a panel in one of the talk tents and Bob
37:32
Speaker 2: Moran and a poet and Thomas Atlas, yeah, and the
37:37
Speaker 2: musician myself and you and we were talking about creativity.
37:42
Speaker 2: But it wasn't it wasn't Greek panel, so there wasn't Okay, yeah, yeah,
37:45
Speaker 2: it wasn't. It wasn't just that, Bob, it was. It
37:47
Speaker 2: was a great panel. So you had ever right to
37:50
Speaker 2: sort of do you think, but Charlott's written this extremely
37:53
Speaker 2: powerful poem and you asked her to get up at
37:57
Speaker 2: the end of the panel discussion, didn't you? It was
38:00
Speaker 2: about what hundred people sitting and then I leg it
38:05
Speaker 2: like that just and but obviously because of the subject matter,
38:13
Speaker 2: it was a bit intense.
38:15
Speaker 1: What did bobry, what did you say, come on, tell
38:17
Speaker 1: the truth?
38:19
Speaker 2: I think he was. Yeah, I think it was a
38:21
Speaker 2: bit sort of thrown by it by the intensity of it.
38:24
Speaker 2: Like obviously stuff like that is needed. And I think
38:29
Speaker 2: she's a great poet. I didn't see it, so I
38:31
Speaker 2: don't know, but it's just I think, like you know,
38:36
Speaker 2: if you put on like a heavy metal track, like
38:40
Speaker 2: when people are just listening to some folk music on
38:44
Speaker 2: a minute, you know. So it was that really it's
38:46
Speaker 2: not like that heavy metal music is bad. It was like,
38:49
Speaker 2: now now is the time and the time and place
38:52
Speaker 2: because everyone's in a certain mood. And that was like, oh,
38:54
Speaker 2: I wasn't quite ready to you know, like if we're
38:57
Speaker 2: just talking about football and then I tell you, oh,
38:58
Speaker 2: by the way, I was rape. Yeah, well give me
39:01
Speaker 2: a bit of context here. So I think that's all
39:03
Speaker 2: it was.
39:05
Speaker 1: And when you invited me on anyway, and you know
39:09
Speaker 1: what I'm like, But.
39:10
Speaker 2: It was great. It was really it was really enjoyable,
39:11
Speaker 2: wasn't it. And I think, you know, even though that
39:15
Speaker 2: that might have been a little bit shocking at that point,
39:17
Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think we do need to
39:22
Speaker 2: we need to start incorporating now within you know, whatever
39:25
Speaker 2: we call the truth movement. I think it now needs
39:28
Speaker 2: to almost soften, soften its edges and and and blur
39:32
Speaker 2: a bit into the more.
39:36
Speaker 1: Mainstream.
39:37
Speaker 2: Well I don't mainstream, but this is there's a kind
39:40
Speaker 2: of subculture of you know, self development, spiritual awareness, all
39:46
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and I think they've got closer
39:49
Speaker 2: and closer together. But I think that because of the
39:53
Speaker 2: toxicity that you've been talking about, the cock roaches have
39:56
Speaker 2: moved well, yeah, because they affect what what The way
40:00
Speaker 2: I see it is that it was a honeymoon period,
40:02
Speaker 2: wasn't it. Yeah, Like we had two years, roughly two
40:05
Speaker 2: or three years where we were just in love with everyone.
40:10
Speaker 2: Then all the oh, so you're kind of into Israel
40:15
Speaker 2: and oh you're into Palestine, you know, and oh, right,
40:17
Speaker 2: you think they are flat, and you know, you think
40:18
Speaker 2: it's not flat, and no, you believe in viruses? What
40:21
Speaker 2: can try? You know? And all this all that started
40:25
Speaker 2: coming up. But instead of dealing with it in a
40:26
Speaker 2: kind of mature way, because there's nothing wrong with differences
40:30
Speaker 2: of opinion, that's great, isn't it. But I don't think
40:33
Speaker 2: we've really dealt with it in a mature way, and
40:35
Speaker 2: I think we've gone back into that tribal.
40:39
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have gone to child it's just childish.
40:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, childish. Yeah, it is childish. But it's not
40:45
Speaker 2: looking at things objectively, is it. And I think that
40:48
Speaker 2: is something that really needs to become more on the
40:54
Speaker 2: table in terms of the movement. What we're talking about
40:59
Speaker 2: rather than just focusing on the external stuff. And I
41:04
Speaker 2: think that's what was happening. That sounds beautiful, and I
41:07
Speaker 2: think that's what's happening. Was happening at Hope last year.
41:10
Speaker 2: I think that there were lots of good discussions about what, well,
41:15
Speaker 2: if we're not looking at ourselves, it doesn't really matter
41:18
Speaker 2: how much we point the finger out there who's doing this,
41:21
Speaker 2: that and the other. I don't know if you agree
41:24
Speaker 2: with that.
41:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I've actually there's a day in all this.
41:33
Speaker 1: Everything's a conspiracy apparently, and there's always a day involved,
41:38
Speaker 1: whether it's the four by twos or the Fabian Society
41:41
Speaker 1: or I don't know, but nobody ever turns around and
41:45
Speaker 1: says it's us. We allow this to happen, and so
41:53
Speaker 1: ultimately the problem lies with us. Yeah, because we're too
41:57
Speaker 1: blinkered to actually see the truth. Because Rego and our
42:01
Speaker 1: insecurity stops the scene. It's the truth because we're not
42:03
Speaker 1: looking at ourselves. So we live this life of delusion,
42:07
Speaker 1: and it's all. It's wonderful to me saying this now.
42:10
Speaker 1: I wonder if I live for another ten years and
42:12
Speaker 1: another ten years of knowledge, I look back at myself
42:15
Speaker 1: and say, bah, he doesn't know what he's talking.
42:16
Speaker 2: Oh yeahs who knows.
42:19
Speaker 1: But for me to sit here and say, well, this,
42:21
Speaker 1: that and the other, considering the way my mind has
42:24
Speaker 1: developed over the last six years, would be nonsicult to
42:27
Speaker 1: try and tell you I know what's going on.
42:29
Speaker 2: But you're not.
42:30
Speaker 1: You just I think there's things going on that we
42:32
Speaker 1: don't understand. I've been talking about Judgment Day and lifting
42:35
Speaker 1: of the veil now for six years. I don't know
42:38
Speaker 1: where that comes from. I think there's more going on
42:42
Speaker 1: in the spiritual world than we care to. With me,
42:48
Speaker 1: you can't explain to me the synchronicity that I've experienced
42:52
Speaker 1: in my life that just can't be explained away. There's
42:55
Speaker 1: too many, just too many incidences. And when I go
42:58
Speaker 1: to these festivals and I meet certain people, there's a
43:00
Speaker 1: few of quite a lot of us have experienced the same.
43:04
Speaker 1: There's like a message, is there. It's like, keep going.
43:08
Speaker 1: These coincidences are ridiculous, they shouldn't really happen, but you do. Yeah,
43:14
Speaker 1: And I cling to that. Maybe one day I'll let
43:17
Speaker 1: go of it.
43:18
Speaker 2: Just that I think it's a question of like how
43:21
Speaker 2: powerful do we allow ourselves to be? Because it is
43:26
Speaker 2: very easy to be a victim. And you can be
43:30
Speaker 2: right and be a victim, you know you can. You
43:32
Speaker 2: can talk a lot of truth and still be a victim.
43:36
Speaker 2: You know they're doing this, they're doing that. Yes, someone
43:38
Speaker 2: out there might be doing that, but like you say,
43:42
Speaker 2: they're only doing it.
43:43
Speaker 1: Because we allow it.
43:45
Speaker 2: Because we allow it. I mean, that's pretty. You can't
43:48
Speaker 2: really get away from that, because there's more of us
43:50
Speaker 2: than them.
43:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. I gave one of the performers a lift from
43:54
Speaker 1: town to Beautiful last year and I won't say his name,
43:56
Speaker 1: lovely lad, And we were driving through the New Forest
43:59
Speaker 1: and he was talking about getting some money together and
44:01
Speaker 1: getting a group of us together to get some land
44:03
Speaker 1: so we could be free. So I pulled over to
44:06
Speaker 1: the levi and so are we doing? I said, I'm
44:08
Speaker 1: letting you out. There's a tent there and a cooker.
44:11
Speaker 1: You can have it. You want to be free, you
44:13
Speaker 1: just go, mate, You're free. You got as much freedom
44:15
Speaker 1: as you want.
44:16
Speaker 2: You know.
44:16
Speaker 1: Now I've got to get back to I said, You've
44:18
Speaker 1: got to get back to your cage, just like I have.
44:20
Speaker 1: We're domesticated animals and we want we don't want to
44:23
Speaker 1: be we say we want freedom but we don't know
44:25
Speaker 1: what to do with it. We can't handle it. But
44:27
Speaker 1: if you want to be free, off you go. And
44:31
Speaker 1: I was a friend's house the other night. It was
44:33
Speaker 1: really funny. We were sitting in his back garden. It's
44:37
Speaker 1: all decking, and I watched him come out and he
44:39
Speaker 1: just had a little quick patrol of his perimeter, and
44:43
Speaker 1: then he went back into his comfory little lounge and
44:45
Speaker 1: was chatting to his sitting in his coming and he's
44:48
Speaker 1: like a little rat in his comfory chain cage. He's
44:50
Speaker 1: just coming out and make sure nobody else, no other
44:53
Speaker 1: rats are going to come in. It just made me laugh.
44:55
Speaker 1: The way we live. But that's when I go away camping,
44:59
Speaker 1: whether it's fishing, go to the festival. Sometimes when you
45:02
Speaker 1: get yourself into that routine, you think, oh, I could
45:04
Speaker 1: live like this for quite a while. I could handle this.
45:06
Speaker 1: There's no responsibilities, just go and get a bit of free.
45:09
Speaker 1: It's to save up all year, work hard and save
45:12
Speaker 1: save hard all year so that I could go fishing
45:15
Speaker 1: in France and live by a lake on no money.
45:21
Speaker 1: Who are doing this for? Why don't we just stay here?
45:23
Speaker 1: This is crazy? Why don't we go back to work.
45:25
Speaker 1: Why don't we go back to England and save hard
45:27
Speaker 1: to come here? Why we just stay here? I don't understand.
45:32
Speaker 1: But we haven't got the the courage to turn our
45:37
Speaker 1: back on the system. No we can't. I've got to
45:39
Speaker 1: We've got the house. What about the kids? What about this?
45:41
Speaker 1: What about that? There's always excuses as to why we
45:44
Speaker 1: can't be free because we don't want to be or
45:49
Speaker 1: we're scared, yeah, or we don't actually know what it is,
45:55
Speaker 1: we never experienced it.
45:57
Speaker 2: We are a product of our environment, aren't we to
46:00
Speaker 2: some extent? And you can't just necessarily leap from one
46:06
Speaker 2: reality to another.
46:07
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It talks in the
46:11
Speaker 1: Bible a lot about having faith. Just have faith, and
46:14
Speaker 1: there's practical stories in there about what happens when you
46:17
Speaker 1: don't have faith. You will wander around the desert for
46:19
Speaker 1: forty days. I'm not a religious person, by the way,
46:22
Speaker 1: So I just think there's some really good analogies in
46:25
Speaker 1: there of the human person that explain to you why
46:28
Speaker 1: you behave what like you do, and what happens when
46:31
Speaker 1: you do. But if you do have a bit of faith,
46:34
Speaker 1: things happen.
46:36
Speaker 2: What's what do you mean by faith, then faith.
46:39
Speaker 1: In yourself, faith in your own power, in your own
46:44
Speaker 1: in who you are. Yeah, you are the biggest, the
46:46
Speaker 1: biggest critic in all of us, the biggest fire extinguisher
46:51
Speaker 1: in all of us. That extinguish all flames is our
46:54
Speaker 1: own self doubt. And I don't reinherit that or you
46:58
Speaker 1: can't do this, you can't do that. My mother, bless her,
47:02
Speaker 1: She's ninety two years old, and I've been trying to
47:06
Speaker 1: get her to draw because she says she can't. Yeah.
47:10
Speaker 1: And I found out that she used to be a
47:12
Speaker 1: really good singer. Oh really yeah, And she sang in
47:15
Speaker 1: public once and they all loved it. It was at the
47:20
Speaker 1: end of the cinema. But she went for an audition
47:22
Speaker 1: and they said she wasn't good enough, and that stuck
47:25
Speaker 1: with her for the rest of her life, so she
47:26
Speaker 1: never saw it again. Really yeah. And I was like, Wow,
47:29
Speaker 1: it's incredible these spells people can put on. I went
47:43
Speaker 1: to four different I think it was in four or
47:44
Speaker 1: five different prisons. They put me into a high security
47:48
Speaker 1: nick for the first nine months, but I kicked off
47:50
Speaker 1: in Now I was a really angry fellow. And the
47:52
Speaker 1: best way for them is just to give you this
47:54
Speaker 1: gear that turns you into a fragle who end up
47:56
Speaker 1: on the entire Catholic board at the end with the
47:58
Speaker 1: bars on the don't give your pills, you have to
48:01
Speaker 1: drink it. And he just stayed with me constantly every day.
48:04
Speaker 1: When I walked up there against math, they're going to
48:06
Speaker 1: do it to you again. Stop taking it. Yeah, I
48:08
Speaker 1: look back and frightened. Little boy really just look at it.
48:12
Speaker 1: Didn't understand what was going on. I had no idea.
48:15
Speaker 1: I've written lyrics about this. I put it on YouTube,
48:18
Speaker 1: I've written poetry. It's about myself, and so I could
48:21
Speaker 1: sit here. I could sit here and give you my
48:23
Speaker 1: opinions all day long. But my experience of actually writing
48:27
Speaker 1: down my emotions in poetry or song or whatever, that
48:32
Speaker 1: has helped me, heal me. It's helped for me to
48:34
Speaker 1: see the real what's going on.