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פטריק ואן לוון ללא מעצורים · ONE Podcasts - מכבי ת"א

• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Because I want to say hello and welcome to Patrick
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Van Neuen. How are you?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Fine, fine. Hi, Patrick. I feel good. Perfect. I'm uh
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: in a good moment.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I'm relaxing. I'm enjoying football and there are periods in
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: life and especially in life of a football coach or
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a football manager that you always
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: get offered a break if you want or not. And
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: this is the period that I'm in now and uh
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: trying to fill it with football, trying to discuss about football,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: trying to meet different types of, of let's say football
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: related uh people and yeah, I'm enjoying it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: We haven't seen you. Uh I haven't seen you for
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a while. Uh, but we did saw you on the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: last couple of weeks watching some games of Moab Tel
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Aviv in the youth department and we saw you watching,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I think on the leg. What are you doing in, in,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: in those current days?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Well, uh let's say the period I was first here
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: in December, I was one of the countries that's still
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: playing football. The rest of the country is taking a break.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: So I try to, to use that period also.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Um and yeah, I, I like to be in Israel.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I like to enjoy the life here.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Uh This, this last week I also gave a presentation
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: to the coaches of the pro license of uh of Israel.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: So more or less sharing knowledge, uh at some moments
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: that I can doing it here in Israel, doing it in,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: uh
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: in Poland or in the Netherlands. So these kind of things,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: uh keep me busy at the moment,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you know that I spoke with some guys on the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Youth Department of Mobi Tel Aviv, um let's say around
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: November and I asked them if someone is, is, is
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: checking what is, what is up with them with the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: youth guys with the players. And they told me that
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: you called some of them in the department and asked
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: them if everything is ok during the war
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and that they appreciate
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: it a lot when II I try to, to be
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: in touch with them. You have some, some coaches in,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: in the academy that still reach out at some moments
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: or for football questions or to check how our life
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: is going and how the new club is going. Um
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: So yes, it's not, not only returning the favor, what
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: it's being correct to the people that assisted you in, uh,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: in developing a youth department. And with some of them,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I'm more in touch with David. We have regular contact
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: speaking and discussing about football, watching games together. So these
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: are the things that come out of a long period
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: being in
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Israel. I remember in 2021 when there was the, the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: firing rockets from Gaza, you weren't at the beach like
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: it didn't really affected you and you came here doing
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: war
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: at that time.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: It was the period of war. A lot of foreigners
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: leaving the country because it was
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: uh for them, a new situation. Um for me in
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: that period to, to be the head coach, I don't
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: think you can leave the ship and uh you need to,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: you need to be, he
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: did the semi final against the without the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: foreigners. So this, uh this was not in my mind and,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and I don't have, I didn't have the feeling at
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: that time and I don't have it, let's say now that, um,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: that you are under threat, I think a part of
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the country don't feel scared, you don't feel it. I
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: don't feel scared. I think that the Israeli army is
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: doing a good job in that to
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: take away the feeling of, of being afraid and continuing
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: your life. This, this I knew from situations before that
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: there were smaller threats, but also in, in my experience,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: let's say it helped me living in the last two
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: years in Ukraine by having it, having the knowledge and
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: not to be nervous about it. Were you
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: safer here or in Ukraine?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I think that both the countries did are doing a
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: good job. The start of the war in Ukraine. I,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I wasn't, I came in summer
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: so the bad part for the Ukrainians, I didn't, I
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: didn't notice.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Um, so in the moment I stepped into Ukraine again,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: it was already more of an organized, safer situation with,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: at some moment, some, some threats.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe we can say that where people see a threat
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: or fear, you see an opportunity.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I don't see, especially if I'm on the job that
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I should, I can leave my job for this. I
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: don't think that
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it shows leadership. If you, if you move out, I
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: think that uh it comes with the position and I
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: think also that uh
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: it shouldn't come from you. Uh If the c really
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: thinks or the government really thinks it's, it's unsafe what
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: we have here. We want all foreigners to leave, then
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you create a different situation. But if it's my own choice,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: then I prefer to continue the job. And especially if
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the situation where I am, is, is organized in a
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: safe way. And that time
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: we moved away from Tel Aviv and trained in, in Netanya.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: So at that time, just 20 minutes was already a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: more safe uh safe area.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Um So we see you now in Israel, as you said,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: you've been here before you came back now again. Um
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Is it uh to see football maybe to learn new
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: things about football or is it just you missing Israel
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: on the personal level.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Uh I think it's both I, I like to, to
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: keep in touch with the people that I work with
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: how the development is going. I like to see also
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: the development with my own eyes are players making the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: progress that you want because a lot of players could
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: play in Europe. So this is always on my mind.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So in, in the, in the way that I work
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: outside of Israel, now, Israel is like also a scouting
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: opportunity for me
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: to see players that or grow from youth into professional
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: players or the younger professional players that I worked with
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to see if they can make a next step. One
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of the examples is, is Edoardo, another example is uh
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Novato that didn't make Maccabi first team officially but was
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: with me in the training camp at that time. And then, yeah, for,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: for that reason, I knew the player and I brought
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: him to Shaktar
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Eduardo to, to Zoya, more or less also
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: knew Lemkin when he took him to.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: No, I I didn't take staff Lemkin to, to Shakin
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: was on the list of, of the Shakta scouting. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: uh you know, in from when I, when I came
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: uh to to Shakta, they asked me to speak
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: uh with, with the family because they had a feeling
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: that I maybe would be against him, his signing because
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: at the time that I started because at the time
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I started in Maccabi, Tel Aviv, they come to come
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to Tel Aviv at that time, he was injured. They
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: asked me like, like all the parents do in Israel
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: at 1515 years old, they think they need a contract.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So I refused for the simple reason that at that
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: time he was injured, I didn't have a good view
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: on him.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: They left. So in that whole period, he developed himself
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: in a different club. And uh for me, if, if
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Shakai has him on the radar as a scouted player,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: as a talented player that showed qualities in uh M
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Alito and in the under 21 and in the main
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: national team,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: then I cannot be uh be against it. So this
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: is also, and this is just a coincidence of me
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: coming to Shag and him being scouted by, by them,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: we
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: will, we will get to the other, but it's nice
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to know that like he was in some, he had
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: some opinion about him and then he can change it
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: because you know, he developed to be another player for him.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: That's right. Um We will get to the players was
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: with you on the, on the department further on. But
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: uh
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you before maccabi Tel Aviv in
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the recent days, appointed Gadi Boer as the academy director.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, he worked on your U department
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: was his brother, worked, worked with, his brother was in
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: the beginning period in,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: was there any chance that you will come back to
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: that position? No,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: no, why not?
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Well, for that, you need to get a question. And
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: uh what I said when we spoke before the, the,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the podcast is that, yeah, I'm still on the contract of,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: of another club that finishes soon. So for me, the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: urge to start is not there and also to, to,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: let's say coming from a coach position to step back
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: into the youth department, but not now like in the future,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: oh, in the future, I don't say no to, to
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: this kind of opportunities, especially if there is talent and
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: if it's in a club that wants to correctly invest
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: in the department,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I must say because I know a little bit like
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: when he was uh uh in control of everything like
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: in the yacht academy and everything and uh it was,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I know, I must say that everything was organized, all
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: the coaches know what to do in training and to
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: how they go to the match. Um
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: the strategy of everything. Now you think that as you
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: see Macabe, I know that he was uh you, you
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: were yesterday in the game against uh against ma under 19.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: You think that now as you see, Maccabe, not in the,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: it's not your first time that you see maab with
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the under 19, you think they do the same things,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: same principles that you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: no uh this, this is not the case and this,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: this I recognize on the field
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: uh in, in a different age because in the whole
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: period that, that I was on and off in Israel,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I saw also on the 16 or on the 17 games.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: So I try to, to see the different levels how
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: they are progressing. And I think that
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: um
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: that, that the way of developing talent is differently than
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I see it, our experience. Well, I like uh I
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: like the, I believe that from a good organization, a
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: child or a coach has the opportunity to grow because
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: he doesn't need to think about it. So that means
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: that his mind is, is focused on football.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: If I take that uh part away from a coach,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: it means also that the coach doesn't need to think
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: about that part because he's more or less obligated to
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: do certain things because that's the philosophy of the club
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: and the club wants to go in a certain direction.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And there you have the coaches that assist and there
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: you have the opportunity for players to become better when
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: you are working, let's say, for maccabi Tel Aviv, one
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: of the leading clubs in Israel, then you know that
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of things uh will come
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: uh by itself because you will have more talent than
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: any other club. That's simply because of the logo and
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: the attraction of uh of, of the club. But you
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: need to manage it, you need to bring it all
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: in the same direction, uh to get a team to
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: get a philosophy and at the end to get an
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: end product to come into the first team.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And for that, you need to take decisions, uh not
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: by the coach, but by the management or by the
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: manager of the academy or by the manager of the
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: football department.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: So when you saw the under 16, under 17, under 19,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you recognize that there is no like someone leading the
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: path for
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: those teams. I think it's, it's visible that coaches learn something.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And let's say in, in all the years that they
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: are in maccabi or that they entered maccabi,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: that there is a certain uh professionalism in coaches. But
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: that I think there is a lack of, of uh
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: has been a lack of control on the people to
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: push them uh to a
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: higher. And I see that there is not the same philosophy,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: ok? But this, this, this can also be a philosophy
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: from the person that comes after if, if it is
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: connected to mine. No, because I think that
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: we educate Children in school for a lot of years,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: let's say in being better in mathematics or in English
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: or in any language or any subject
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: that I look a little bit the same way to football.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think you learn everything in three months, in
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: four months, in five months.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And that there need to be a certain basic understanding
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: of football before you can make uh another step or
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: another development or another tactics. And that is by age
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: or by level that you are playing on
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: when you see um the guys that grew up in,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: in your academy now becoming the top players of the
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Israeli football. Of course, we can speak about Daniel Perez
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: or Oscar. But we also see now in this Maccabi
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: to German and Roy Vivo and others.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Um And now you see the new, let's say, uh
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Maccabi Academy,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: what goes through your mind on the personal level
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that I think that the boys that are now in
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the first team or that moved away from the first
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: team to play abroad, that they had a decent
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: foundation of, of making the step into professional football. Uh
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: because they knew that what was done with them was
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: also with the intention to bring them to the first team.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: There was no other uh let's say, thought behind it.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: We needed those players for the first team to be ready.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Uh which is more or less a task of any
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: academy director to bring the players and Macabi if it,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: it was at the beginning, very difficult
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: uh because OK, the thought was there was no quality slowly.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Every year there was quality uh or players uh return
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: to Macabe after being on loan. So you saw that
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: uh more or less in that period
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: things that just happened started to happen with, with an idea,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: players were developed with an idea, players were sent alone
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: with an idea, uh players were loaned to the second
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: division all in one team with a certain idea which
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: guarantees for me, uh a higher percentage of players that
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: are ready for a Maccabi first team
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: when you were the head coach of Macabe for 10
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: months and you started the season after winning the cup,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you had an option to decide which guys like that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: will stay in your team and which will go out
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: for a loan or, or will be sold.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And you stayed with Daniel Perez. It was your decision
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to make him the first goalkeeper at that season and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: you stayed with Eduardo Guerrero. Uh but as we see
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: now
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the other guys and now they developed maybe uh it
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: was not enough, uh you know, there was no, there
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: wasn't enough players coming into the team from that group
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: of players like Ido Shaha was sent on loan and
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Oscar stayed another year in the youth, maybe it was
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: right for him to get up before.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, I, I don't, I don't think so.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I think that a lot of the development of players
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: is also done on the background. If uh let's say
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: one of the advantages for M de Aviv was when
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I moved into that code position is that I knew
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: all the academy players, let's say from 16 years old
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: that were able to train or would should be able
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to train with the first team.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: So when there were difficulties or injuries for me, it
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: was easy to call the coach or the manager and say, listen,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: give me the left wing or under 17. I need
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: the left wing.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Uh the same with under 19. I think a lot
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: of the development that let's say fans don't see or
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: our club doesn't see is happened on those days for
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: me on purpose in international breaks, knowing that 67 players
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: would move to the main team. 34 would move into
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: the under 21 meaning you have a gap of 10 players.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So that means that you need to continue the development
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: of another 15 with the help of academy players. And
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: at those moments to, to bring in players from the
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: academy was for me a pleasure because I could just
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: fill up the spots that I needed with talented players
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: that I knew should be able to train with the
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: first team.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Uh And to, to have, let's say, have the purpose
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: of developing continuing the fitness of of the other first
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: team players.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Can you can you explain the idea of taking a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: guy like I Shaar and sending him to a high
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: five that time instead of keeping him inside
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: your team at that
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: moment. No, it was not a discussion in the way
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: of that. He should move out. The discussion is always
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: with players like Ido or Nadav Needham. Can we give
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: them enough minutes for them to keep, uh the, the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: the progress also, uh another problem is his parents or
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: agents because I can tell as a head coach, listen,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: train with me for six months. Be quiet, be every
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: day on the field. Do your job get better
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: and you will get your chances like that because that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: gives an opportunity for a player to get used to
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the professional level to show to the head coach. Listen,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: different than let's say the experienced midfielder because that is
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: uh that's decisions you have to make. Do you keep
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Yani or do you bring uh Io Shao or do
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: you keep Not of Needham? And, and this is something
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: that
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: players at some moment, some other understand, say, listen, I
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: stay five months. I want to fight for my chance.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: If I don't play, it's my decision, then I have
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the winter transfer window. But uh most of the time
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: players are pushed in a direction you need to play,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: you need to have minutes. We need to make sure
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: that you uh that you play for some players like
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I know he made at that time. He and Bar
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Cohen
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: went earlier from, from the under 19 to by the
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Tel Aviv at that time than other players. Normally they
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: one season on you and then they get so they
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: make the step. So that means also that you need
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: to make sure that you continue the development of those players.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: And at that time, if there's not enough minutes and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the player has,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: let's say the urge to play professional football, you need
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: to find the right way for him to develop. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: think
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: that when he go to, when he went to Paul,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: it's a good, it was a good loan because there
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: is a lot of center midfielder in Aviv and it
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: was a, it's not easy competition, but in the year
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: after you put the blame on
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: more than I think you should take him and make
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: him play even more than g can we say that
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: maybe in the way that use of football? Maccabi Tel
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Aviv is more like, let's say real Madrid than Barcelona
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: and how they are putting the guys from the youth
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: inside the first team.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Um Well, I think you, I think
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: because we will not see at the age of 16,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: like Lain Malo Kali play for Aviv, I see it
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: in Barcelona.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that an Israeli 16 year old is
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: not as far as a Spanish 16 years old.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Um So that is a huge difference and that's purely
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: because of the country. Spain having 120 million people living
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: and 5 million playing football. And here it's a lot
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: less and a lot less Children playing football and adults
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: playing football. So uh to be a 16 year old
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: and making your debut in Maccabi, Tel Aviv. It means
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: also that you need to have the qualities to stay directly.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that, um,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the, the youth,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: the level of youth football is not that strong, that
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: the 16 year old will be ready for, uh, for
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the first team. I think that, uh, I'm always afraid that, uh,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: 16 year old will be sent out after a few
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: months
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: and that you don't see him anymore. So I rather make,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: make a slower development with having more guarantee of the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: players staying in the first team because we are
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: touching the subject. I want to ask you because we
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: are already in the subject. We got ahead of the
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: questions uh in your first in your season when you
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: started the preseason, the camp and everything, the training games,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: you had a game against A P for
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you, and you took Oscar
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: in an international break. Yeah. And
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: he scored in that game also. Yeah.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Um, a few months after you left came, um LA
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and cast and he put Oscar on the first team
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: for the playoffs of this, of the, of the finish
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: of the season. And a lot of fans and media
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: people asked, how is it possible? All that? We haven't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: heard the name of Oscar before. I mean, he was here,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: he was in the club, you know, him better than us.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: What made you took the decision that he needs to
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: stay on the youth level on that season.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I think they made already their official debut in a
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: total cup game. So that was already before that and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: that is the whole group more or less that is
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: now coming into the first team. And
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: but isn't Oscar, is Yogi La Mal, let's say like
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: this wasn't he like that? Not
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: at, not at 1616, not at 16. Because
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: let's say like this Oscar always played up, played always
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: with one year older
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: until, until the under, under
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: 15 in the under 15. I decided that I think
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: it's the best that he doesn't move to the under
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: 16 because of the size and I don't want the
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: player to be left out because of the size. So
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: there are two things or I let him play under
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: pressure in the under 16 and tell the coach you
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: need to play him, which is, which is an opportunity.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: But I took the decision and said, listen, uh Oscar
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: and it was, I don't want to say it tough,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: but to explain it to a child that always played
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: up and is considered as being talented to, to explain him. Listen,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: stay in the under 15, stay with your age group.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Be the best, be the best every day, be the
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: best every game because that's also a way of developing
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: because his mentality is, is not to slow down.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: So I'm not taking a risk that uh that he
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: will become lazy because he will only do more. And
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: that was the decision at that time. And I think
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: it was the the the perfect decision for him to
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: also start believing in himself to dominate the games and
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: to be, be the best because that, that was the
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: moment where he started to, to, to grow in all
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: facets of football, not only the, the, the football part,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: but also the physical part. So it started to
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: come a little bit together where you could start recognizing
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: this is the one that most likely, in my opinion
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: will make it at 18 years old.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Um
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Because then he will make the next step. He will
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: be under 17, he will go to under 19 and
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: from there at the moment will come that he needs
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: to start making his debut and more or less that
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: plan worked and he was on the verge of, of
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: making his debut. And one of the things that uh
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: that uh before I started the, the second, let's say
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the second, uh
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: the new season after the first six months was one
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: of the requests from from the club. We want you
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: to bring more younger players slowly into the squad because
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you have developed them and and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Oscar Vivo, a lot of other players guy Mizrahi at
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that time, also players that, that made already, let's say
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: a move from under 92 2nd division slowly to bring
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: them inside because there was a lot of talent and
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: there still is a lot of talent.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I, I must say from my point of view, ok.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Um I was coaching against Oscar so it was like,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: uh you can, you can, you can do nothing against him.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: And uh when I know that under 15, when he
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: was playing with the, with the year that uh bigger
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: than him, he was, he was also like, he, he
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: was the top goal scorer in the team. And the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: year after he stay in the under 15, as you say,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: and every year, stay with his team with his age.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: it was like, not, it's quality for me when I
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: saw him, I must to say for my opinion when
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: he was like in the under 17, under under 16,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: he was like a player that can play in the
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: first team, not in the capital Avi but maybe in
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the second division.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: OK. But this is, this is a different subject. The
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: two things that, that you don't know of as a
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: coach of, of another team is that outside of him
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: playing in his own age group, the matches, he's training
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: with the under 19 or as under 15, he's training
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: with the under 16
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: as on the 16 is training with the under 17.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: So there are uh decisions in his development that still
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: give him the challenge of competing with others or with
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: older and that, that happened every year. So his challenges
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: were always there but it was not in an official game.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I know it was in training sessions was old, it
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: was in training sessions with the first team or it
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: was in friendly games with the under 19 or with
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: the first team. And these are things that are happening.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but on training, on training when, when you see
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Oscar again against the players that like bigger than him
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and you see the quality that he has. I know
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, I think that he could like play in, in,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: in the second division when he was like that in
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: that same season.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: This is your opinion, in my opinion. And, and if you,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: if you would have worked for Maccabi Tel Aviv, you
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: worked for him, for him to,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: if I was his coach, ok. If I was his
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: coach in the under 15, under 16, I would tell
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you immediately take him up, but
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: that's supposed to be and this is, and you, you,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: that's now one of the problems in Israeli football.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I don't want to win games because of him. I
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: want, no, no, no, but you are not looking at
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: what is the best in development. And I think that
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: the development has to come from, from taking the right decision.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: If it's for three months, it's for three months to
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: just send talented players up.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Israeli football loses a lot of talented players in this way.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So you are responsible, the excuse of the army. It's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: a fake excuse. It's, it's an excuse is the development,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: the way coaches are approaching football, the way coaches are
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: approaching talented players because what uh what would stop you
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: as a coach of a talented player to give him
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: extra attention or to ask for, for extra.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Um
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And, and the other thing I want to tell you,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: and this is that too many coaches think they know
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: the philosophy of the club. Uh if an academy as
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: an academy director, he's the one to take that decision,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: not the coach because he's the one that is looking
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: for the long term or he knows that the first
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: team is not waiting for this player. So I need
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: to find a different path for him to develop. But
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: next summer, I can get him into the training camp.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And this is exactly the steps I like to make,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: not only to predict but also as I said in
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: the beginning, not to get players back to the academy.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: If you deliver a player to the first team, it
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: means he needs to stay or he needs to stay
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: or go on loan from, from with you and
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: with you on this and with you totally. And I
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: would never say like on even or or something, everything
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: was perfect. But with Oscar, I think that Maccabi, the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: first team of Maccabi could like
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to see more can benefit
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: more from him. I don't, I don't agree. I don't
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: agree in this. I think that the moment he started now,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: let's say to make his debut in the first team
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: was the moment because he didn't return to the youth.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And still there were moments that I think this, the
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: coach that, that
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: so called me made him debut in professional football, didn't
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: play him for 10 games also. So there is, there
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: are moments in a young player development
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: that it's all all too excited or he gets an
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: overload of, of training and Oscar likes to train. So
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: that means that every day he will be tired as
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: if he needs to be with the adults. And I
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: think that you need to protect also. But to recognize
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: the talent is not difficult and there is a lot
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: of talented players that
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: didn't come to the first team of Maccabi, Tel Aviv
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: also in the period that I was not there that
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised that they didn't make it. So we didn't
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: get
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: the chance. I want to ask you for a capital Aviv,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the different of Oscar to Maccabi, what the different like
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: from Gavi to Barcelona or from Yin
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Barcelona. But you don't think that like they are in
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the same age, they play like for Barcelona, it's like
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: the best team supposed to be the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: best team in the world. No one grows up in
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Spain and one grows up in Israel. That's one. The
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: second is that I think in that time, uh Barcelona
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: probably also evaluated or scout at Oscar and they didn't
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: make the offer,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: uh, only after they got the offer from Red Bull.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So, and if you look at choices that he could make,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: he made the best choice for his football career by
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: going to Salzburg because he's playing, he's playing in a
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: team that, that wants to dominate the games. But he
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: is also playing a little bit in a, in a
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: physical way.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: So he needs to continue his development at a young age.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I think they made the right choice and that he
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: now comes at a stage in his football career that
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the next step should come
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: as an as an academy director because you are the
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: one that is leading the pat when you got that,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: that position and you did it in a few clubs. It's,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: it's I want to speak about coaches, it's difficult and
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: we see it in all football. We brought Castell Lega,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: we brought Caster. There are not many coaches who are
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the protagonist
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: who knows how to dominate the game and how to
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: lead the game and how to be the one with
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: the possession and how to do the build up. And
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: when you came to Cait Aviv Academy, did you recognize
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: that the coaches that you have in, in the academy
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: knows how to do it or they are more the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: one that's reacting to the game.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Um
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Well, my, my, my impression of, of the coaches before
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I started to work at Maccabi Tel Aviv, I was, uh,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: let's say, six months before that, I finished the job
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: in Kazakhstan. I was invited by, uh, by Jordy and
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Martin Bain at that time to, to give my view on,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: on the academy. So I, I spent a few days
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: at the Maccabi Tel Aviv Academy at that time and
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: gave my findings to, uh,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: to, to the management of, of the club at that time.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Um
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I think that
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of coaches were doing their own thing
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: and, and one coach is influenced by the first team coach,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: another coach is influenced by youtube. Another coach thinks that
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: he is the pep Guardiola of the under 15. So
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you have too much uh of own ideas.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: And I think to what I said, also to develop players,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: you need a philosophy for a few seasons to be
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: sure that it comes out and also to be sure
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: what his best position will be. Um
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: And I think that that is one of the things
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: that I noticed that uh some coaches had their own
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: idea about how to play football, which was not always
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: beneficial or for the long term or for the players
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: and especially not for the club. So I think that
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: if you analyze clubs
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: that's who
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: let's say have been known to develop players, speaking about Ajax,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: speaking about Barcelona, speaking about Manchester United for a long period,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: speaking about some of the Eastern European clubs
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: is that, that are the examples that you need to
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: take a look at? Ok. How much time did they
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: take to develop these players? Uh, did the coach or
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: an academy coach have his own idea or was there
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: one idea of developing the players? And this is something that,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: uh is difficult for coaches that are not, let's say,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: from a leading football country to accept that somebody comes in,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: walks in a foreigner to tell them what to do.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And a,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: yeah, this is, this is something that, uh, that I
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: believe strongly and, and which also let's say, made me
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: successful in developing academies and developing teams for a longer period.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I must say that I really like your way of football,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: the 4 to 3 and the rotation in the middle
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: and that you have two players wide on the line.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: And uh the way as you see football just, I
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: wanna have, uh one question that I, I want to
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: know like, why do you prefer from what I know?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Like the wing girls with the, with the, with the
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: foot
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: if you want an honest and I think it's a
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: stupid question. Stupid question. Yes, I know that he uh
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: started this on, uh, on, uh the, the, the, what
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: is it Twitter or whatever?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: You are so funny in this, that if I put
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Cohen on the left and Eduardo on the right,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: then why is it like that? Why not? If I
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: have a striker like Pica, that is also good with
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: the head? Do I expect go ahead to give me
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: a cross with the right foot from the, from the
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: O Eduardo. So that's one the second is, is, is
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: that the style of football that at some moments you
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: want to play is, is deciding for me 433 is
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: deciding
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: play with one controlling midfielder or with two is a choice.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I make it a choice that also an opponent forces
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: you to make uh to play with left footed or
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: right footed. Opposite is a choice that you make.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: The funny thing is that this question never comes when
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I play with Coenen and Jos to left foot at once.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: It doesn't come when I play with two right foot once.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: this about it. No, no,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: no. But I mean, I mean that the choice of
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: wingers depends on what you, how you want to play.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Do you want crosses for pr or do you want
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: short combinations with Eduardo or with Alo? No, have them
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: both. If you have like the wing back or the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: full back, he can make the course. This is the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: that can shoot,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: this is, this is a choice of tactics. It doesn't,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: it doesn't
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: come from the fact that I have a left footed
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: or a right footed on the wing. It's the style
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: of play that you want to do. The overlap will
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: come with the right footed player or with the left
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: footed player. So that means also that uh the cross
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: gives me two opportunities from the right footed winger or
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: the left footed winger or from the one that makes
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: the overlap. But you don't have
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: if, if them both, like if there are two left
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: foot on the left side, ok. So you can't, they
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: can't like shoot to go from that, that,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: that is your choice as a co and this is
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: my choice. And this is, these are the things that,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: that, that are
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: not the reason was because you, you, you, you wanted
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the crosses to, this is the old,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: not the parents take, for example, uh the first month
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: that I did when that we played by sheer for
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: the Super Cup. Blackman scored a goal because of a
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: good action of Eduardo until the end and him being
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: able to give the cross with the right foot, a
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: left footed player would have not given me this, a
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: left footed player under pressure
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: on the right side can never deliver a good cross.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: He will always control the ball. So a defender is
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: always uh if he reads the moment, well, he can
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: always wait for that moment that he will control the
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: ball and then find the ball or find the moment
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: to tackle, um its choices, it's a style of play.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: It is something that
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: one season, let's say Guardiola plays with opposite winger the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: other season, he plays with the left footed on the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: left and the right on the right. It is choices.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: It is any choices. It is choices that coaches make. Yeah,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: but
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: when it happened, I don't remember when Guardiola played with
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: some winger on the right foot in the right side
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: and the left foot on the, on the left side,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I don't remember something like this, but
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: go, go check it
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: with Sterling or if it's with man or if it's
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: with grill or if it's with like on the opposite side,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: they are not always like
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes like for on the left side, he put him now,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: but it's not like us one side, he put like
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: with the other with the opposite side in one side,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: if it's for sure, like or on the right or
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: on the left, he put like opposite for sure.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: And for me, honestly, I don't care,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I don't care. It's the, it's the choice that you make.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: It's the availability of players and it's a moment in
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: developing your team that is there. It's an opportunity and
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I don't see it as an extra
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: what
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: you prefer. This is, it's true that you prefer that
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the strong foot on the, on the, on the side
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that if there are, if I'm right, strong foot on
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: the line you prefer me on the right?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: No, this is not correct. OK, because in, in, in Zoya,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I played with opposite. I played with same size, same side,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I play with opposite. I play the chapter the same,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: it's everywhere, the same discussion
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: in a way of uh and, and part comes how
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the player grew up, did he grow up on the
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: right side or did he grow up on the left?
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: So the choice, the
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: choice for the
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: discussion in, in, in a player is sometimes because simply
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: he played for four years
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: in that position. And now coach tells him to play
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: on the other
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: side. What I'm saying, what I tried to say in
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: the start when you say it's a stupid question when
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I spoke with like coaches that was like coaching the
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: new Maha Aviv in the yard development.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: So they told me that if I want to put
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: like my wing, if he was like in the right foot,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: if I want to put him on the left side,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: so you said, tell them no, only on the right.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: So this is why
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: this question, but this is, this is part of a
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: bigger plan. This is the one because at the end,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: at the end, they were allowed to
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: change sides to let players change side, to give the
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: signal to the players, to change side. If a player
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: is not, let's say giving his best or looking unhappy
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: or he has some pit bull that's killing him on
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: that side. Ok. Go 5, 10 minutes to the other side,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: come back into the game. And
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: uh, starting, let's say if we speak about football development
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: for me, there are certain things players coaches need to do.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And that means also that there is no other option.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: That means also that not only the player will be,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: let's say brainwashed. Also the culture will be brainwashed for
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: his feeling. Um But it is part of the bigger
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: picture that I want. First one
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: philosophy to be inside everybody's head
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: before I started at maccabi Tel Aviv without one training session,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: without one moment of them showing me something. I told
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: them this is the way you are going to play.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: This is the way you are going to train, everybody
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: is going to do it. You're the coach of under eight,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: you do it like this, you're the coach of under 19,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: you do it like this
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: and this, this is the way I think
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: to start. And that means that ok, I don't, I don't,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I don't need to be the popular guy. I'm not
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: here to be the guy. And that means also that
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I have to stop people from doing their own thing.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: And to get in that direction, you need to be,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: uh you need to be ready to lose people and
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I lost coaches. And I know that when you start
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: to develop players and the philosophy you will lose people,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: you will lose players,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: you should never be afraid of that because the next
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: one is waiting or the next one is waiting to
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: be developed. So that is something that is part of
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: my philosophy that I like to develop. Not only players,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: uh I like to develop a philosophy that is there
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: for the club. And that guarantees, let's say players for
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: the first team. But it also more or less gives
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: opportunities for coaches to grow into
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: professional football coaches. And some like to be a specialist
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: in under 15, some like to be in under 19
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: and some have the ambitions to, to go into adult football.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And this is something they will find out. But one
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: thing will always stay
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: is that the coaches that, that, that grow up in
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: a philosophy like that for, for, for their personal philosophy,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: go in the same direction, go in the same direction of,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: of developing football in believing in it. It stays with
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: people because it's an organized structured way of, of looking
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: at football,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: which is assisting you and making life easy, not life
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: difficult. I just, I must say that you benefit a
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: lot from, from your philosophy also for winger because they
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: like they know how to go forward if they, if they,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: if they have like the strong foot on the line.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So there there a possibility to go forward if you
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: are in the oppo opposite side,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: they try with the technique, like to get into the middle. OK.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: So it's better to, um, uh, for the game, like
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: if you want to take it forward. But the creativity,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: it's like, uh, the, it's, you don't think like, uh,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you lose something from this, from the, from the windows.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: You don't think that they lo lose something or all
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: the things that they on, one on one, the dribbles everything.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: because uh I'm not looking at the point of view
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: that from the 25 players in a group, let's say
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: in a youth team,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: 25 are talented,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I think in every group. And this is something I
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: took from a long time. My aim as an academy
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: director is to deliver 4 to 8 talent, talent
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: and um for at the end for the head coach
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: and the sport director to make the choice which one
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: we keep, which one goes out, which one? Uh we,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: we can sell
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: and this is the way I look at it. So
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: the two players that are overly talented like the gloss
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: or uh Vivo or Tuman, they will find their way,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: but they will benefit from the discipline and the demands
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: that they have every day. Uh players like like uh
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: or a Vivo or needs or shaka, they benefit also
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: from putting their energy into a system and knowing my
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: teammates are responsible for certain parts also, instead of going
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: all over the place and with
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: the academic discussion behind us, uh we just another two
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: questions about it. Um
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: You had a strong view regarding what you allow your
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: players during the contract uh discussions and you lost talented
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: guys because of that guys that wanted a release to Europe.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Basically a poll took you at that time. It was
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Lemkin but you just came, it was also Senio, it
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: was ta abed, I think on that same uh same discussion.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe I don't remember the
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: story was already gone before me. OK?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: But, but you lost some guys on that or I
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: think they took you some guys because of that. When
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you look back on that retrospect, do you think it
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: was still the right decision to insist on them not
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: getting the release close to Europe?
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Uh Yes, there are two things for that. First of all,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I think that Maccabi Tel Aviv puts a lot of
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: money in the academy. So that means also that Maccabi
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Tel Aviv is taking charge of the development of uh of,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: of let's say the sun.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: That means also that uh before, before I came because
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: that is one of the things I try to uh
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: reduce or to take out is that parents need to
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: pay because if you pay, you have a feeling that
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: you are in charge of your son's career because I
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: pay you to develop my son. So that means that
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I need to get something back. So that more or
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: less was one of the things that changed directly is
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: that from, from a certain age you don't, players are
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: not paying anymore. Macabi Tel Aviv takes charge, you train extra,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: you get extra coaches,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: you don't uh uh you only have to come, you
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: only have to show up.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Um That's one the second thing that you take away
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: also directly is the feeling of, of parents thinking they
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: are in charge of their son's career.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: The play is mentioned by you
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: for me, they were not on the list of top talents.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: So being being let's say, evaluated as not being a
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: top talent, my advice to a club is differently
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: worth it or not worth it. I think that salaries
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: shoot up to be 18 years old should not be
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: important
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: because you are willing to develop my remark to parents
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: was always why you don't ask me why my son
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't train extra.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Why parents hire a psychologist? Why parents hire a fitness coach?
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Why parents hire a technical coach? Why parents uh need
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: to hire a mathematics teacher extra or something? Why you
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: don't demand this from me? You want my son to
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: play football eight times in the week, make sure that
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: all these things are arranged and then you have him
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: the age of 15 in the ruling in Israeli football
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: is an age where some of the parents go crazy
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: speaking about. Ok, my son
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: football is finished football becomes business. I want this amount
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: for my son and I want the contract, ok? If
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: you then confront them
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: with your son is not a talented player, so we
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: are not going to pay you money, but he can
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: continue his development within the club. And if he does
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: well in one year, two years and we
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: want him to offer a contract, we will get back
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: to you and some
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: parents try also to play the, the,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the the how to say it training in a foreign academy. Yeah,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. But if a club put so much money
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: in an academy, it is a very unpolite question
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: to ask for your son to train somewhere else. But
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: this is a deal
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: breaker because think
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: that why is it a deal breaker in Israel? It's
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: a deal
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: only in Israel. But what I want to ask, like
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: you prefer to lose them all this kind of talented
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: and to another club in Israel.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I don't care. But
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: in this thing, you said something else, you said that
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: in those moments when there was the age of 15,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: you didn't saw them as top talent.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: The names dimension wasn't
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: a is a different story. He was injured, he broke
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: his leg, he was injured for six months and we
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: just simply told him, listen, get fit soon, first play
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: in the under 16, we will get back the moment
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: that you are playing. Ok? If then
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: the parents think, ok, I'm sorry, my son broke his leg.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for the medical care. But we
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: go to another club. It's something else. It's their decision.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with giving them the money.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: It's purely a point of view of football development. You
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: have been injured for a long period. Show us that
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: you are fit again and we get back on the
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: table and it was about
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: money because I know that didn't like bring them money
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to go to a play, a board like to play
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: for free.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: That is maybe what they tell you. But I,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: what I'm telling was part of it. That means that,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: that you are not informed correctly because the simple fact
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: was he broke his leg before. No,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I'm saying about s and Lemkin.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Ok. But listen, but with all these names so we
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: can speak about names. The point of view of parents
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: is my son turns 15. You need to give me money.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: If not, I go. Ok.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry if I don't think at that moment
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: that and I'm responsible for it to advise the club
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: not to do it, then I have my reasons for that.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: And I don't think I'm wrong
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: in this way. That's,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: that's, that's only because the under 15 rule in Israel.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I mean it wouldn't happen in
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: be no, but the question would not come in pay
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: because because the the compensation starts at 12 years old.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: So to pay and any amount is different if you
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: need to pay after four years of, let's say maha
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: T Aviv $100,000 you think he will even call? No,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: because he knows he will not get $100,000. So simply
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: the ruling
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: uh is, is, is creating in part of the parents
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: uh even in the not talented parents and a moment
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: where they think, OK, my son can get some money.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: OK. Do you, do you have any regret on, on
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: your time? On the? No, no,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: no, no, not one in this case, uh
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: players come and go. I think that at all times,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Maccabi Tel Aviv had talented players to reach the first team.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Uh some talent, some generations are more talented, but I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: think that's why I called the number 4 to 8
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: talented players to deliver. Uh I think this should always
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: be possible to come from uh from under 19 and
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: even better in a solution of an under 21 team.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: You should make it possible to have 4 to 8
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: talented players to make the squad and some of them
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: to make the 1st 11. I
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: want to take you back to the 2020. It's the,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: it's the COVID uh time you took the team to
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the training uh training camp in Jerusalem if I remember correctly.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And then uh uh G Donis came to be the
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: head coach things didn't work out. You took the job
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: uh near theem. Then came the amazing run
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: at that point for you.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: When you saw the opportunity to become the coach of
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Maccabi Tel Aviv, did you thought it will be your
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: direction for the next years or? So,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: let's say like this the first, what was it? We started,
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: I think around 20th on a Monday
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: until the beginning of August. I think we finalized the
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: two State Cup matches at that time. The Super Cup,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the Super Cup was on two games at that time
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: against Beersheba.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: And, uh,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: at that time, Barack and me, we, we had some
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: talks with different, uh, coaches
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and more or less. We were not joking but looking at, ok,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: what will happen? We have only a few days left
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: and it's ok bringing candidates to the owner,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: um, for them to decide. And Barack looked at me
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: and said, listen, Patrick, if it goes wrong,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: you need to start the season because then you are
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: the only one candidate that we have for us to
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: start the season. Uh, can we offer this? I said, listen,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: if this is the only way, of course, I do it,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I'm, I'm here. I know the players. I know, uh,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: what they have done. I said, but you have to
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: imagine that I want to do it
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: my way. So don't tell me what to do or
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: tell me to play with five or whatever. I said,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing it because I saw it as an
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: opportunity to show the academy coaches
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: what we are doing for this whole period in the
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: academy can work on the first team. We'll work in
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: the first team also because this is the way you
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: speak with coaches and the way to, to show them
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: that it's possible. So this is what we were doing.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Um, ok, there was no coaching stuff. So at that time,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I said, ok, then the two coaches, then the 19
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: head coach and I'm the 17 head coach at that time,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: only David and a, as I said, you guys will
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: assist me and, uh, more or less, we decided this
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: on a Sunday and a Monday we needed to start. Um,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: so we started and, uh, ok, you, you, you meet
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: the team, everybody knows. Of course, yes, it's for the
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: moment until, uh, head coach is coming.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: And I explained also at that time, I said, I'm
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: here to make you fit for the season. And I
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: have my ideas and some of them, of course, had
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: our younger brothers in the, in the team, so they
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: knew what, what could happen or which direction it would go.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: And we started to work from the first day with,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: with playing football and playing a different style of football
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: because that was also, uh, I told him also that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: time and I also said it here and the, the
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: coaches
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: in the IFA, I said I'm not a fan of five.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I will play from 433. Whatever happens within the 433
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: is a possibility. I said done by you or done by, by,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: by my decisions.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: And, uh we started to work and I tried to,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: to implement all the things we were doing in the
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: academy from, from the team sessions to align training sessions
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: to work individually and, and to do more or less
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: in the com combination with uh you sign on the
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: physical coach to make sure that the team would be
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: ready for when the coach was coming
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: and you won the Super Cup. We, we, well, the
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: most important thing for me was that we changed the
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: style of football within one month because we, we try
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: to press, we tried to play higher and we
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: tried to, even though it was a champion team. Yes,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: but it was also a team that played more from
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: defense than, than from dominating with uh with attacking football
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: or with high press.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: So this is something that we did in the academy
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: and what I wanted to try to do in the
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: first day, that was the intention, it was not the
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: intention to
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: stay the head coach for a longer period because otherwise
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: they could have made the decision directly, more or less
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: you
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: knew from the get go that eventually there will be
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: a
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: because I was involved in, in in the, in the
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: interviews with, with different, no, you cannot say this. No
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: because at the end, Barack and I spoke with the,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: with the candidates and at the end it's
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: is the owner and this representative to
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: give a good on,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: we checked, let's say the things B and I agreed
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: on football needs to come from 433. We want to
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: play an attacking style of football. We want to implement
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: younger players was much, much
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: more fit to ma than what I can
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: say. So this, this was our intention and we spoke
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: with different ones and at the end,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: people need to enjoy to take the decision about you.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Enjoy the three months. No, no what we do. I
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: want to ask you if you enjoy to be a
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: coach of the first team more than to be in
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: control of the art academy.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: What let's say at, at after a few years. No,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: it's not about what you prefer. After a few years
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: being an academy director, you want also to develop and
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: make your next step. That step for me was to
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: be together with Barack and to mentor Barack also a
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: little bit and ok, this is the way you develop
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: players or you develop coaches and um and to make
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: sure that we, we grow the club further and also
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: to bring more the the academy and closer
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: to uh to the first day. And this was something
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: that was interesting for me without, right, because then you
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: have to think about the next step for me would
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: be or to be sport director. And, and I never
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: closed the door because I took the, the pro license
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: in Ukraine
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: in 2009 with the intention to help the club to
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: get a better evaluation as an academy. But also for
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: me to take the opportunity that if somebody opens the
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: door to evaluate if it's possible
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: and, and
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Donny started the season, he did well on Europe. Uh
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Then the league started, it was a mess. We saw it.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Uh
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Even though the result in the beginning was a little
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: bit shaky. We saw that it is not like something
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: that uh we didn't see a pat of football from,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: from Donny. So he, he got dismissed and you got
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: the job. But I want to ask you about because
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: you haven't comment on that. I think since you left
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Maccabi Tel Aviv, when Donny left Maccabi Tel Aviv, he
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: said on an interview that he felt that you and
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Barack are pushing him outside of the club. So you
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: will take the job as the head coach.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: That was an interview that he gave to Ye Tuchman
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: at that time. Um I want to hear your version
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: to that uh to that story.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Um
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: No, uh we at that time because let's say we
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: were part of the search for, for a candidate. Uh We,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: we gave it to the management. And after that, our
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: job was to, to assist him in getting the best
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: opportunity and so on because my, my job was not
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: to follow the first team in all activities. That was
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Bak's part in, let's say, in the football department that
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Maccabi Tel Aviv created.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: So we were together at some moments, we were evaluating
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: our situation. What we wanted. Are we going in the direction?
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Uh Simple thing, are we playing 4, 33 or 532?
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: So these are the things that you, that you evaluate,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: which is not done by, by us. And
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: as I said before, uh to start the season, as
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: a coach was for me an opportunity to show the
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: academy coaches if you ever come to a first team
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: or you get an opportunity,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you do, you can do the same.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: It is how you bring it and how you explain it.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Um So in that period, we just shared our opinion
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: also with, with him but was close to the players.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: He came from that group so he could share the
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: feeling of, of players with, uh with the coach and,
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: and this, this is merely what we did so
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: interpreted it like you are trying to push him out
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: when you, when you told him the players
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: put himself out, I think. Well, what you say is
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: correct is, is
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: international campaign, let's say was good.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: And um but it didn't match with the, with the league.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Um And it is luck in the, in the COVID
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: period was only one game each round. So you make
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: quicker success if you draw until the, if you make
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: a good draw. Yeah, then, uh so yeah,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: so you took the job, you won the cup. Is
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: this the best moment for you as a coach, the
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: cup or not?
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Well, well, I, I must say that the best
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: feeling from, from that period was the winning of the
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: games and the winning of the games with different lineups
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: because more or less if, if candle played or Geralda,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: it was no different. David Zada or Sabo it and
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: this was more or less, uh
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: coming from the, from the tight schedule 34 days. And
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: at that time, the group was with the right quality
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: of being able to still play at a high level
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: with different types of players.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: And that was the biggest pleasure because there you could
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: see that working every day with the team, uh and
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: players more or less flipping the coin. Will I play
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: tomorrow or not? On a Friday
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: was giving a lot of motivation and a lot of
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: good feeling within the team that everybody was part of it.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: I
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: must say something. It's interesting that you are saying this
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: because also when you was like on the academy for you,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: there is never like 1st 1st 11 and that's it always,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: you really care about also the other players
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: and then there is no not substitution players in the
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: first team. You, you take care of it. Like for
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: everyone you want to play in you, you didn't want
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: to lose anyone
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: on the youth academy. I think up to uh to
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: under 17, you cannot demand every week to play with
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: the same 11 years, I think. Yes, under 17. Um
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: I look at it from 16 years old, you can
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: make your debut in the first team. There are players
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: that could be ready.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Ok? In Israel, I think it's less than in Europe,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: but you should be ready. So there a coach has
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit more opportunity to play the 1st 11
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: and more often, but still substitutions have to be done.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember at my discussions with at that time
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: or about a player of a central defender, tall guy.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: You have youth players that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: if you are close to 2 m and you have
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: to play against 1 m, 50 players, sometimes you can
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: look bad. But if you play against 181 190 you
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: look good.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to uh to show or that the
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: players should have more uh more opportunity to play.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: And he looked at me. I said, ok, you don't
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: believe me. Ok, send them to me. So that was
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: on the 19th to first off as soon he made
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: his debut in the whole group of total, uh, the
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: total cup.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: And I showed him and I spoke with him after
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I said, oh, you have to trust more in, in
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: qualities of players and sometimes to look beyond what you
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: see on the field, you have to look at the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: qualities
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: and, uh, these are sometimes moments for coaches to, to understand. Yeah,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I have to trust one player more or I have
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: to trust my team more, um,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: to, to, to that they are able to deliver a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: higher quality because playing, let's say young in, in by
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: the Tel Aviv or playing with under 19 against second division,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: with under 17 against the under 19 is part of
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: the development and part of the trust that the coach
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: gets in his players.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: I will take you now for the summer of, uh,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: after the winning the cup,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: you got the appointment as the, as the head coach regularly,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: not as an intern.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: And, uh, it was after a good finish to the
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: season even though it ended without the championship. But the
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: gap was bigger when you came.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Um, and
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: you spoke about the Twitter before I got at that summer,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of feedback from players inside of a dressing
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: room saying like waving some red flags that this won't
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: work that if Patrick stays the head coach, we will
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: not succeed.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: And most of the complaint wasn't about your football style
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: or something like that. It was on the personal level.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Some of them felt that you are treating them as
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: they are still in the youth in terms of maybe
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: being too stiff with them. Uh Maybe, maybe, I don't
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: know something about the dynamic group wasn't working
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: and they raised that red flag very on before even
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: training camp. It resulted at the end by, you know
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: what happened. Uh The team didn't succeed many things. It
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: was because of the, the, the poor situation in the,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: in the dressing room.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: And I was the one writing a lot about it
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: uh as you know, uh and we didn't have, I
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: think even once your reaction to that, your comments to that. Well,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: first of all, um
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: um let's say like that, I think uh uh a
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: player of a professional team is, is paid to play
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: football
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: and part of a top club means also that you
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: have to do what is asked,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: I believe that players are part of a team but
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: also have to show their qualities.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: And I think that the players without asking who were
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: players that are playing less.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Uh because this is the way this is the way
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: you get your information. It's not from the ones that
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: are playing because the, the these are the ones that
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: get the attention and more or less deserve the attention
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: and deserve to play.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the name of your uh colleague, journalist. Uh
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: um He told me once that for you guys, it's
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: only our festival festival of ban that is giving you
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: the information. So I know that it will come and
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: I know from which players it will be and uh
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: for me or not to speak to them or to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: being stiff or it's for me, it's, it's a reason
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: that um
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: I cannot do a lot with because they don't come
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: to me so to speak after
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: is, is, is for me not polite or it doesn't
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: help me to comment on players. It doesn't help me
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: because uh I I will not change the player and
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: the player will not change me. And that I'm uh
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: how to say it
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: strong or demanding or, or strong in my opinion.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think so that I'm that strong that that
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: players cannot perform. I think a player needs to look
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: at himself. Do I give everything that I can? And
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: that is something that uh
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: no, but there were other players that did spoke by
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: their name. One of them was Tim.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: He said that you were doing him wrong and you
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: didn't respect him and that you froze him and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: listen, I think that uh you mentioned a player that
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: that should be lucky that I keep quiet. Why is that? Well,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: let's let me stay quiet because I don't think that
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think that um
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: let's say he could,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: we pushed him in certain situations because you want more
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: out of a player. And I think he grew up
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: in a generation that they decided what to do on
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: the field. And I'm not from that generation.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: I think that you have a responsibility and uh pushing
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: a player to be in a position to score, I
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: think should benefit him. And this was more or less
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: situations where uh you need to push players
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm not there to, to be friendly, I'm sorry.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: And this and mentioning this name, yeah, I, I don't
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: have nothing to say to it. It says all by
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: itself the point of, of his career
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: in your eyes. What were the reasons for you not
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: succeeding at the following season after, after the first six months?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Um you were at the end of the day, 10
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: months overall in, in that job, six of them was
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: really good. The next four months wasn't.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: And this, I don't agree with you. I will tell
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: you why. I don't agree. First of all, we were
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: successful in Europe,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: uh still doing a lot of good things
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: pushing. Um
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: I don't think that the team
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: was, let's say ready to perform that well, on both levels.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: I also think that a lot of clubs and owners
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: decide too quickly if something is not going well,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: having the experience myself as a coach by taking the
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: team in a, in a position that was not leading,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: but bringing it back
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: and, and still regretting not to take the championship also
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: because that was still possible, but we lost it in
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: the game in Kona where we got the red card
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: and we lost the game. If we didn't get the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: red card with TB, we finished the game, we win
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: the game, we would still be on, on the way
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: to have, let's say the double. Um,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: so I think that a little bit more time
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: in correcting, um,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: correcting the situation in the league
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: would have been, would have been the best
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: because this, this is what, what I believe in and
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: which is what I think would be possible.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: But you haven't that the atmosphere surrounding is not the
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: one that you can,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: you have. Uh this is what at that time we
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: spoke about, we had, let's say one month until the
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: next window to clean up.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: And uh
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: so that was your plan
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: if that was the, the thought and uh, ok, any
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: player that didn't perform or felt that he needed to
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: move out, you had an opportunity to, to let's say
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: refresh the group. Um
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that uh a little bit more time,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: a few weeks more would have been easy because if
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: I look at facts,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: I think the coach that finished the season,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I think I was on the second position with, uh
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: with one point more or one point less finished up.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: And then when I went out, you understand? So this,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: these are things that I must
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: say that uh you lost against Macabe natanya in Natanya Stadium.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: And uh I was there and when I saw Barack
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: and Shaon leaving from the stadium, I saw the faces,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: it was clear for me that uh it, it will
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: come to an end now that they will not wait
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: until uh January.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: So in that, in that discussion with them,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: did you
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: expect you to do different? I don't know.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: No, I, I don't know what at that time these
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: two persons could have told me to do differently, one
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: without any football background and one just starting from, let's say,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: changing his point of view as a player to, to
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: a manager.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: Um Well, we, that game, we, we lost, we should
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: have scored 234 goals in the first half. We, we
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: outplayed them, we didn't score enough. We catch,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: go in the second half and, and uh natanya with
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: the fans, get the enthusiasm into the team and uh
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: you totally lose control and that is something that, uh
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: of course, it cannot happen, it will happen in, in
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: any coaching career. But at that time, you, you should
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: have finished the game already in the first half.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: So you didn't get any feedback from Barack telling you, listen,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: let's try to do something else and, and bring back
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: this team together. It wasn't any discussion regarding that
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: at that time.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: No, I don't remember any discussion that, that, that would
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: lead to,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: let's say a situation of not being able to work
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: together anymore. No,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: let's speak about uh in Zoya. Um How do you
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: sum up your time in, in Ukraine? Totally.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: after, after Maccabi, uh we, we, I had some time
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: I saw a lot of, let's say good contacts in,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: in Ukraine.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Uh Ukraine is like our country where you still can
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: develop football and, and teams, a country that started because
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: of the war and the total football situation changed. All
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: foreigners left a lot of clubs uh having to, to
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: use academy players or or 1st 1st division players or
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: second division players to create teams to still participate.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Zoya opportunity came at the moment that there was some
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: interest from other club, but it was the most
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: concrete one and the one where I knew the club
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: as being a club that always wanted to or was
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: able to play in, in Europe at that time, they
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: also had difficulties making the team.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: So we started with a lot of young players, a
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: lot of players that let's say played in the previous seasons,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: 8 to 10 games, maybe in other clubs, but had
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: the talent coming over from the Namo Kev Academy or
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: from Shaktar Academy.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: So it was an interesting uh start. I also there,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: it was a little bit like I had one month
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: to prepare them for the qualification for uh
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: for Europe and like like similar style of working as
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: the one month in, in Macabe to do it. We
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: need to change the style quick. We need to make
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: it a team of, of a group of players that
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: never play together or come from the under 19 or
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: come from reserve teams
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: and that, that connected and like uh some, some difficulties in,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: in scoring goals, in creating a lot of opportunities
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: that didn't work out in the, in the, in the
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: first part of the season. And we were,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: let's say on the run of maybe going into the
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: winter break for the first position, but making two draws
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: brings us back to the third position.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: But going into the winter break with a lot of
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: positive feelings like if we can connect, let's say our
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: defense a little bit better to not giving uh goals away.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: We have an opportunity to score more goals and, and to,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: to get back to stay in the race
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: worked out well. We did the preseason, we had some
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: difficulties in the second preseason by having
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: an incident on the training field of a player receiving
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: a heart attack. So more or less all the positive
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: that you were building drops a little bit. A lot
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: of team feeling came inside because of this incident.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: We start the leak
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: at that time. We also brought Eduardo Guerrero so we
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: knew that the strike that we were missing. We, we
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: would have now
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: um you came, I think four days before the start
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: of the first game.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Um We start the game, we are 20 down after
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: 20 minutes. We come at the half time.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: We go and we speak a little bit direct to
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: the players that everything we did and what we showed
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: in the first part of the season we need to do.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Now
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: we get back into the game assist of Eduardo 2122
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: and we make 32 before the end of the game
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: and we start also there a very positive run. We
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: had 15 games in the second part of the season
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: with only two losses. So we secured the third position
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: making it possible for Zoya to even participate in the
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Europa League. And um
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: and if they would lose, they would be automatically in
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: the group stage of conference. So that was a good
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: position for the club with at that time, an extra
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: income from UEFA would be welcome in the, in the
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: time of war.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: I went with the intention to do well knowing that
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: the club would do well or give me the opportunity
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: to do well to see if I maybe can make
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: the other clubs interested in uh in me as a,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: as a coach. We did well, there was some interest and,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: and
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: at the end, Shaktar asked if, if, if I was,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: was interested, a new, a new one
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: for before we need to say that
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: I worked for Shakta before. So I was an older
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: period that I was not
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: at, but they knew you.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: The new Patrick. Yes. The head coach Patrick,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: the old Patrick,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: not the, not the old Patrick. Yeah. So, um yeah, from,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: from one company to another Shaktar knowing Shakta from, let's
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: say the good period because also they had to make
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of changes because of the war. A lot
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: of talented Brazilians left
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: used the UEFA ruling to get out and they also
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: needed to start a new
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: with the younger team, younger Ukrainians, talented Ukrainians after they
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: became champion. Also, they,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: I wanted to change the style of football still to
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: continue with bringing in younger players and also younger players
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: from scouting to. Uh
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: so we started on the job
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: training camp in Holland the first two weeks because of the,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: the under 21 championship and uh
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: qualification games for the main national team. Uh After two weeks,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: I had only the, the full group which was more
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: or less one week before the start of the league
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: because there was only a three week preparation until the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: first official game in the in the league.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: They're also, and like we discussed
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: about Mugabe, OK, some crest changing the style, bringing in
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: some players
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: also there. I started with OK guys, this is the
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: way I want to play and we have enough quality to,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: to bring it to dominate the 19 game 90 minutes
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: in the game, in attacking or defending. But we need
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: to deliver quality from that point of view. I also
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: train because I want everybody to be fit enough to,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: to be dominating
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: the game and also in the
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: in, in Europe because yeah, Champions League is a different story.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: We start, ok. In the league, we take some points,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: we dominate parts of the game, but we are not
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: how to say dominating the 90 minutes as I would
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: like to see
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: had some injuries in preseason of, of players that, that
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: are important for the team. They are young, but they
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: already had some seasons in professional football.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: Um Some of the transfers didn't work out as we planned.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: So a different quality of players came younger.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Some of them came also coming also from a different background.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: So a different training background.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Um So yeah, there were some difficulties but we took
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: our points. We were, let's say in the first position
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: of the league still we lost already. Let's say some
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: points that we shouldn't have lost. Um starting the Champions
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: League
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: in the League from the, from the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: first position, the first Champions League game against Porto, uh
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: not in Ukraine but playing the games in, in Hamburg,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: in Germany. So meaning that the traveling for every game
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: continues
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: um
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: very good team to play. So as a coach, you
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: try to eliminate
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: as much as possible, the
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: the the the good qualities of the team. We,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: we lose the game but we showed some opportunities for
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: us to score on 11. We make two mistakes. We
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: give them an opportunity to score another two goals. And
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: in the second half, we had one or two chances
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: extra to score.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: Um continuing in the league
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: come the second Champions League game against an,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: we start, we start
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: bad in a way that we don't show the aggression
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: that we need it
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: at half time. You try to correct and to new
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: one and we in the 32
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: with a little bit luck because they get a penalty
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: in the 93rd minutes which uh they don't score. So
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: we take the first point in, in the group states
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: from two games and more or less after that. Uh
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: It starts in a way that uh
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: I get some,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: I have my ideas of continuing of developing players go
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: to the national team after the and weapon game. Uh
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: The club was able to move
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: the league game to gain some extra rest. We have
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: a friendly game. I planned a friendly game for the
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: players that uh that are not part of the national team.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: We play the game, we win, we have some difficulties
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: 10 minutes in the beginning of it's a friendly game.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: We end with uh seven players of the under 19
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: in the second half. So I think a good job
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: and the next day the general director called me. He said, listen,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: the president didn't like
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: the friendly game. So, uh, but you want the friendly game,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: but you have to understand that this is not the reason,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: like in, in the way the team played or the
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: team performed, he
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: sacked you after a friendly game
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: more or less. Uh, this was, uh, this was the,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: this was what usual, this is what, what they told
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: But what, what is the real reason in your eyes?
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: The real reason? Yeah,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: I think I don't, I shouldn't share. But um, ok, this,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: this ends and you start the season knowing that there
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: are more demands. You also start the season where you think, ok,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: we need to build something together
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: and this is something that at the end wasn't
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: first place in the league when you got fired and
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: now they are not first place,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: they are first now they, they had some games to
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: from this weekend.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: They first maybe I think before they were second. Yeah. Ok.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: So, um
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: and end of the story. So let's say a second
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: spell of
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: coach. It's not, it's not how good you are. There
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: is also one other things,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: you have a lot of things in a club like that,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: but that is around the team that is not directly
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: happening on the field
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: on a successful period when he left. Mabe. Mabe wasn't
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: reaching the goals that he should have been. That's different.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: It's, it's, it's the same for me. It feels in the,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: in the, in the same because more or less you
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: have to see through things. And if you're doing well, uh,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: you're on the way, uh, in, in the point of
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: view of, let's say Macabe, the results in Europe, you
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: would be first or second. That was the, the direction
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: we were going in that group. And
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: in the league, I still think that the points
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: to overcome and to get back in the door top
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: as a Maccabi Tel Aviv, you always have because you
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: have a more quality group
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: um
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: in the way of uh of Shakhtar, I, I look
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: at it in a similar way, you're starting something
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: which uh will go with ups and downs. If you
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: need to change things, it will go with ups and downs.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: If the things around it
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: are in the in the, let's say the noses are
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: in the same direction because we want to achieve the same,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: then you will achieve it. As soon as somebody is interfering,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: it becomes a different. Uh So
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: you have the next few months to yourself. Um What
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: is your next destination? What do you want to, to,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: to find yourself now as a coach as academy sport? No,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: II I am, let's say at the moment, still focusing
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: on continuing the, the coaching career, the head coach, there
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: are some
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: showing some interest. Now, as I said before, the contract
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: with the Shakta will officially end in, in one month.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: So that gives all opportunities for me to, to continue
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: anything that comes now that gives me similar circumstances. I, I,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: I'm ready to start. I spend my time wisely in,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: in visiting clubs and watching training sessions and games
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: to uh to add some interesting things to your uh
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: personal philosophy in my case. Was
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: it correct that the last few months you got approaches
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: from Poti Aviv? And
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: I have no, no, no, no,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: nothing. No. Ok. Uh What do you talk about the
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: decision of Barack to become a head coach of Beal?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that, uh, it's what he wants. So
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: I think that, uh, that he needs to start now.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: So, yeah,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: you felt it, you felt it when you, when you
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: were the coach of m, you felt that you want
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: to be the coach something?
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, not directly. No, we spoke about it.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: I think a few months ago
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: he said more or less. Ok, what do you think?
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: I should, I should do, should I continue as a
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: director or as a coach? And I said, listen, if,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: if you feel that you can want to influence the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: whole club, you need to be the director. If you
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: want to work with players, then, ok, you need to
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: start finding out and
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: as you, as you know, Barack, you think that you're
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: gonna succeed in Jerusalem.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Well, he always told me he's the king of Jerusalem.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: So uh after his playing career, so I think that
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: I think
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: is the king but
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: the crown prince, but I think that uh his knowledge
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: and I don't want to,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: let's say, give myself credit, but that he saw, ok,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: this is what is needed to organize a club, an
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: academy or a first team that he knows what to do. Ok?
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: Now he needs to get the chance and, and to
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: take the chance and uh knowing Barak, he wants to
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: be the best. He wants to be very ambitious and,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: and playing in a certain style of football. But OK,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: I advise him to take the time and to be
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: smart in it,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: you surprised that he didn't take the job after I
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: left
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: when, before they
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: brought
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: in, I think
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: in
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: terms of, I would look at the challenges bigger and
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: invited Jerusalem to create something with a huge potential. Still
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: as a club,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the name of Ivi. I think also he
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: said something about you a few maybe one year ago
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: or two years ago. Also in an interview
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: that you are the only one he didn't spoke with
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: at, at his time in the capital Aviv
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: and he felt that you are not giving him respect.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: Do you know what he meant when he said no,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: I don't
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: think
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: I know you didn't have any problem with
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: no, why I should have a problem with him
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: if he was not in touch with me and I
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: was not in touch with him then. Ok, the
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: I think that uh I remember that I was invited
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: to a dinner when Ben Mansford started and then he
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: started as a coach
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: that I was part of it so that we met
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: uh me as an academy director to be part. And
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: at the moment that that a lot of young players
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: like Ken and Glass and, and so p came back
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: from all the long period. So to say so I
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: think that uh
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: I visited the first team games,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: I cannot remember that he visited an under 19 game
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: or any youth game that was 100 m away.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: So I think if he says that we didn't speak, ok,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: maybe
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: look at yourself and then then maybe take the interest
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: and take it to art. Maybe I should show some interest.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: I think that uh
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: that's something I try to do as a, as a
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: head coach is, is always to show some interest in,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: in an under 19 or the under 17. I knew
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: all the teams. I knew the schedule. Yes, for me,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: it's easy to cross the road and speaking to the
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: coaches because more or less you develop them or you
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: hire them. But I think also in, in Zoya and instructor,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: I try to
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: be interested in uh in what's happening and people know
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: my background. So they ask me also questions or ask
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: me to be uh
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: to be like an advisor. And in Zoya, it was
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: like that Zoya only had an under 19 and they
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: had an academy playing on a different location. But more
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: or less the under 19 was the only team where
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: I as a coach could take players from.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: So you try to watch the training sessions, you try
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: to watch because they trained at the same facility.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: So you try to have an interest or speak to players,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: use players in training sessions, use players in, in a
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: friendly game. So yes, this uh this is part of me.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: I think it needs to be inside. You also as
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: a head coach to show interest in the other side.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: We
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: sit here on a, on a Sunday uh on Thursday,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: Maccabi Aviva won Olympiacos for one
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: we saw in that game in the lineup players that
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: grew up in the academy, the Shaha, of course, Ravi
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: do Perez Kani.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: Uh we saw coming in from the bench guys like
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: Toja man or Kats, the Vida. That was until he
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: was 15 years old. Um When you see all those
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: Israeli guys, some of them, you know, personally, better than us.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: And you saw that game,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: how many of them can play on a Champions league
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: level team like Oscal? Uh right now, how many of
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: them have that potential to go to those type of teams?
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that that all of them, let's say
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: that play uh have an interesting position vivo as a
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: left defender, the whole football world is always looking for
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: left defenders. So I think that, that he has that
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: extra and I think that he's developing in a, in
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: a right way
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: uh to get the minutes and to get the games
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: at every level in the, in the national team also,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: et cetera. So he gets it at a young age,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of experience
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: how he manages it or how they manage him in
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: the in the sessions is most important that he
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: keeps this, let's say high discipline in focusing on being
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: the best in that position.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: Though to Jan, I think that he can be
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: a little bit more, I don't want to say selfish
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: but to be more quickly in scoring the goals because
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: he gets always or he creates always opportunities. So he
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: needs some time. But yeah, he needs to show what
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: do you
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: think you need to improve on
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: his game?
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: I think he needs to think less and to finish
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: quicker
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: if I see him go at the goal,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: I don't see his actions being where am I putting
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: the ball?
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: It's whereas my defender, I need to still make one move.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: I want him, I would like him to be,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: let's say more. Taking X as an example when the
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: ball is ready, it's ready to fire and this is
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: what he needs to start doing so that his,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: his statistics go up because he needs the goals to
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: be talented is, is nice for a certain period. But
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: now it's time to be effective
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: and to bring the goals and for that, he needs
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: to of course, be in the best position for him
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: possible as a, as a striker. But again, if you
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: have two good strikers, you need to manage it at
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: the thought
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: you mentioned before on one of your answers that there
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: were some players in the youth that your surprise didn't
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: make it.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: Can we go into names
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: if you want to go into names? We surprise you
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: that didn't make it to the festive of.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Um Well, I let's say we can, we can only
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: speak about players that that didn't make it but also
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: players that didn't get the chance. I think for example,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: uh guy Mirai is a player that I personally saw
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: making progress a lot
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: and I think he shows it now in Netanya that
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: he's on the right track to keep developing himself.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: I think um
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: Tel Aviv, after selling Oscar Gloss
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: should have taken a different decision with Berlin, for example,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: that's now alone in a ha I think he's uh
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: something specific. He has also something specific in his head,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: but it's a very good boy, very
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: how to say it, unexpected decisions with the ball and
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: not a lazy boy. So I think that some
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: players should get the chance. But ok, he now has
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: the road to show it through a different way. The second,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: the second year with the under 19
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: was not good for him for all of them, all
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: of them, for all of the team also for all
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: of the, for, also for Bayer and for a lot
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: of them. But in the second year, it was supposed
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: like to go to another place to play, like in, in,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: in those game. You think,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: uh I think that also partly it lays in what
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: happened in the, in the academy. Um
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: But I think that those, that generation of players uh
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: didn't only consist of Oscar Gla I think there, there
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: are some more players in that group that Macabe will
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: benefit from in the future
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: Claudio Braga was something that you brought to the table
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: or no, it
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: is, it is related to me. Yes, I suggested Claudia
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: also because I got the request. Uh not only to
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: be the head coach but to continue also to, to
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: look after the football philosophy in the academy. And for that,
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: you need a person that, that let's say follows and
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: follows the plans that were already existing for, for four
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: or five seasons. You didn't follow
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: them.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: He uh after after me leaving more or less things
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: changed and that, that is something that uh
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: that Maccabi should look at by themselves, how to handle
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: that in future situations.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: Um who do you think will win the title this season?
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: Moab Haifa.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: Um,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: well, let's say like this, I think they are compatible
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: at the moment.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: I think it depends also who made the best transfers
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: in the, in the winter period. I think high five
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: after the start with the young coach came back into
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: the race.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, both teams, uh, surprised me with the long period.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: They are in Europe. So for the league, it's good
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: that both of them have the same more or less
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: schedule
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: and with the opportunity so both of them to qualify
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: for the next round. So that's only top four Israeli football.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: So I think it will be a race until, until
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: the end. And who do you
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: think did the best journey of transfer window when you
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: look at the,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: I think they did different transfer window. Macabe aimed for
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: the younger players maybe for the long term and I
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: brought in some young foreign player and also some experienced
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: Israeli players. So I think that uh
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: both of them looked at ex ex let's say expanding
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: the squad with quality to, to be able to participate
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: in the, in the two leagues that they are in
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: now in the conference league and in the in the
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: Israeli League,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: you always said, and I remember that with, with the
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: that you had the academy director, I think you, you
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: did the first interview with me as the Academy director.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: You always said, that the Israeli talent is something that
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: is not getting enough attention
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: that we have a lot of talent and we just
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: need to direct them on a good way. And you
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: see now the level of the Israeli players coming out
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: and you see Makabe Kit and Kali who is a
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: top player,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: what, what resulted in that change that we are now
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: making more good players from the youth than previous years.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that uh that of course the the
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: the younger coach coming from the youth helps Maccabi Haifa
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: to recognize some of the talented players and and to
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: give them the opportunity. This this always helps when a
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: person comes from the academy or knowing the academy players,
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: he will quicker say, listen, we don't need, I can
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: try it with this one.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: So uh that, that is uh that is a plus,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: I think also the performance of the national teams last summer,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: uh also made people in Israel realize that, yeah, we
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: need to have some more trust in the younger players
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: that we have.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: So let's hope that that continues. But at the same time,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: I hope that
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: not only the Israeli Federation continues to create a high
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: level of coaches development,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: but also that clubs are are starting to pay attention
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: more
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: to the academies. I still think that Children in Israeli
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: youthful law
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: don't have the right facilities
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: to play football, not enough opportunities to become better.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: Um
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: Also the extra activities of clubs investing in.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: They need to see it. If, if
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: each club would see one player being sold to Europe
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: with the amounts of Daniel per or Oscar Glo, then
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: you are creating your budget for your academy and you
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: are creating your,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: your aims for your academy because you need only one
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: and to invest
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: on your level in an academy to increase the activities
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: of Children is something that needs to happen.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: If uh last, last Saturday or yesterday, I watched the
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: under 19 game, I think there needs to be more demands,
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: there needs to be a higher tempo. There needs to
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: be more intentions to dominate the game for Israeli Children
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: to grow up because yeah, everybody wants everybody that is,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: let's say involved in Israeli football or supporting or knowing
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: the talent is waiting for the national team to qualify
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: for something.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: And uh
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: this would be the biggest boost. But if this boost
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: goes to all the owners of the clubs or all
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: the owners of the academies,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: that is something that should go.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: And um
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: because for such a small country,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: I still think there are a lot of interesting players.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: We mentioned some of them. Uh I'm looking at Israel
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: as scouting opportunities which players clubs are not using. Is
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: it a player that I still believe in to, to,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: to make better?
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: And this is something that, that I of course hope
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: that Israel will see it here, you
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: also prove that we can attract
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: younger guys that can be good players like Eduardo like Poe.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: So that's another direction that is possible for the Israeli
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: football that we are not using it, I think in
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: most of the teams right now. But you need people
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: that believe in young players and young and young coaches
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: and you need people like this.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I understood that most of the clubs now are
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: not taking a young foreigner because they get certain
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: composition for the federation. And I see it from the
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: point the same as in the, in the first team,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: a foreign boy brings something extra to a youth team.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: So it's
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: Mabe now, we don't have a foreign players in the
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: youth for the second season in a row. So that
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: no, and I, I think that, uh, let's say Macabe
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: and the scouting of, of the youth show that they
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: are able to find the players because it started with
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: VA G
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: to take him on loan from Apo Jerusalem. Then we,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: we bring Edoardo, then we bring Parfait with Parfait. We
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: still had another. Bamba was also in that group, but
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: you need to take decisions and Parfait was standing out
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: the most at that time. Uh, then we had, uh
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: Novato Miros from Tanzania who also added something to youth
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: football played at that time in the, in, uh by
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: the Tel Aviv second division and did the preseason with, uh,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: with the first team. And so I think that
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: it is an extra opportunity and I don't think you
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: should let it go, um, as a club because of
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: finances because, yeah,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: maybe it could be more, or maybe the Israeli Federation should,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: should stimulate it
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: and maybe even increase the second one.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Do you have something more before I would finish it
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: or what, something more to ask? I, um, no, I
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: just want to,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: to you to succeed and to have a good luck
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: and where wherever you choose the next lab, which any
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: position that you choose and that's it.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Uh When we are asking an Israeli person
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: or a Jewish person where they come from, you see,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: we always say, OK, I'm half Moroccan, half Polish. I'm
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: half Bulgarian, half from Germany. Can we say now after
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: all those years that Van Leuven is uh 15% Israel?
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: Well, let's say like this, that uh I, I am
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: with pleasure
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: in, in, in the, in Israel. I worked with a
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: lot of pleasure here and a lot of friendly people
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: assisted me in, in being successful and creating also a
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: name for myself here. So, yes, I am. Uh 15%. Yes.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's maybe more, maybe more.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: I have the, I have another question after all of
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: what you got in uh in football,
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: why do you think that you need to improve in
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: yourself
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: if there is something like this? No, listen, it's uh
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: that's also part of this period to, to, to, to
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: look at yourself. And uh I'm not afraid to listen
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: to people, I'm not afraid to, to get their opinion
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: and to take something from that if I look at myself,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: but then, then, ok, maybe communication or personal contact could be.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: But for that, you have also nowadays a much larger stuff.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: So certain things you leave to your assistance because at
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: the end, they also need to do something. You cannot
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: do everything by yourself. That's why you, you are the manager,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: you do everything, you plan everything and you decide everything,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: but your input comes from your assistants that are with
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: you on the field. And uh
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: uh this, this is something that, that I look at
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: more closely now. And what I like to evaluate is
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: the communication between the, the head coach and his staff,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: the head coach and the players, but also the assistance
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: with the players. Ok. Where,
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: where is the head coach, uh really involved in the
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: training session? And for that, I, yeah, I, I travel
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: and I like to see uh the training session. I'm
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: not traveling for exercises.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: This I can create myself. I'm, I'm traveling to see
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: communication between uh between coaches and players if I uh
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: go to Betty Sevilla and, and you think, ok, they,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: after the training, they will go inside, they did their job,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: they go inside. Ok? One of the players is still
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: unhappy that he doesn't uh
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: that he didn't play or that he didn't participate enough.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: So I see there a 70 year old Gods Pellegrini
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: with a lot of experience speaking for 20 minutes with
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: the player trying to comfort him, trying to make him
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: believe in his qualities that he gets his chance. So
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: all over the world,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: the same situations occur. And also if you didn't speak
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: with the, the, the coach after, because these opportunities you
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: also get because of the clubs that you work for.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: Uh is that he also explains this is, this is
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: part of it, OK? And still at my level, uh
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: players are not understanding why they don't play and one
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: word is not enough, you need to spend time on it.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: So
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: this is something that uh it's
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: even more important than uh tactics, the communication and everything.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's important tactic, they like the most. But uh
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: if they listen, yeah, if they listen, if you, if
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: you make them listen can be OK. Uh Patrick, thank
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: you a lot for coming. I wish you all the
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: best and uh we will follow your career of course
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: and see what happens in the next uh
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: few months. OK? Maybe we will see you on the
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: lines in Bloomfield soon. But as an opponent who knows
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: everything is still open and we will see and the
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: sun is coming. So this is perfect.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you very
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: much. You're welcome. Thank you?