Latest / Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson / Rescue as Relationship: Horses, Trauma & Second Chances with Christine Doran | Equine Assisted World Ep 48

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Rescue as Relationship: Horses, Trauma & Second Chances with Christine Doran | Equine Assisted World Ep 48 · Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World.
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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling
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author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land.
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Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge
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thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen.
0:15
I have a request.
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If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend.
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It really helps us get this work done.
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As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad.
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And over the last 20 years, we've developed several
0:31
equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs.
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If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning.
0:40
com.
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So without further ado, let's meet today's guest.
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Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.
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I've got Christine Duran, like Duran Duran, but only one Duran, not two.
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That's fine.
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Who runs Triple H Ranch in the Chicago area.
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And what's unique about this place is it's not just a therapeutic
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equine place for humans.
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It's also a full on proper horse rescue, like proper job horse rescue.
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I've been there a couple times and it is always kind of educational to
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be reminded what levels of abuse and neglect, even in today's America horses,
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animals, and I guess people still undergo and so much of it's hidden.
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So somebody has to be there in the front line to.
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Mitigate this, and there she is.
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She's sitting in front of you, Christine Doran.
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And of course she's then rehabbing these horses and giving them second
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lives as equine assisted partners.
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So it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful ecosystem.
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And it's something that should be an inspiration to us all.
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So Christine, thanks for coming on.
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How'd you get involved in this and why?
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Christine Doran: Well, thank you so much for having me.
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You know, I actually got started with this 20 years ago when I was in high
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school, and it just so happened that everyone was talking about what they
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wanted to do with their lives that day.
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And I looked around and I was like.
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Well, I'm 16.
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I have no idea what I wanna do with my life.
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So I have a very conversational relationship with God.
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And I was driving home that day and I was like, all right, why am I here?
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I love people, I love animals, I love helping them.
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Like what's my purpose?
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And I'm like, if you could just gimme a large sign.
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And before I said, amen, I looked and I was like, well, we both
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know what I'm like, I'm gonna need a large flashing sign.
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And so I said, amen.
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And the moment I said, amen.
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I was driving past a strip mall and while I was at school that day, they put up
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this huge electronic billboard sign and it's flashing, it's in all caps, and it
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says, call Good Samaritan's Boys Ranch.
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Two day exclamation point.
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And I was like, oh, thanks for the flashing sign.
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So I pulled over 'cause it's pre cell phone days, and I write the number on my
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hand and I go back home and I call and I say, you know, I know I'm gonna sound
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like the crazy kid, but I really felt like I, I meant to learn about your program.
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And it just so happened that the executive director answered the
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phone and he spoke with me for an hour and a half about how they use
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horses to help heal troubled youth.
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And I was like, okay, I know where I'm going, but I was 16, so you
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can't jump into something like that.
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And so I thought the best thing that I could possibly do was get into
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therapeutic writing and start helping out.
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Starting to see different disabilities.
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And I did, I went, you were
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Rupert Isaacson: already a horse girl.
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I take it.
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Christine Doran: I was, I was first put on a horse when I was 18 months old.
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And two of my sisters, I'm, I'm the youngest of 10.
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So I always say chaos does not exist.
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You know, life is an ice skating rink.
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Wear your skates to wear your shoes.
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Choice is yours, you know, like.
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Being the youngest of 10, you just, you have to be able to
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adapt and pivot like no other.
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So, that I think has helped me immensely being able to run Triple
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H because no day is the same.
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There's a, you know, you could be planning to do all of this and you
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get an emergency call and your whole day gets thrown out the window.
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So I I started volunteering with those.
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And then right after high school two weeks after it I left and I moved
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to Madrid, Spain for three years
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Rupert Isaacson: as you do.
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That's very random.
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Or for, for a horsey girl from the middle.
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A little
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Christine Doran: Missouri girl to
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Rupert Isaacson: just jump and, and also yeah, because it's one thing to
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go traveling in an English speaking country, as you and I both know
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English speakers tend to be incredibly lazy about having other languages.
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That's an incredibly unusual decision to have made at that age.
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There must be a story behind it, please.
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Christine Doran: There is.
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So, my sister Jennifer has actually lived in Spain for 30 years.
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Okay.
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And so she,
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Rupert Isaacson: again, Midwestern girl from Missouri goes to live in Spain.
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Not quite so usual.
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That's quite so
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Christine Doran: usual, right?
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Us toand, we just don't fall into the usual.
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Okay.
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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
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Christine Doran: A skinny one.
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No.
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She, she went for a semester abroad in college and fell in love with it.
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And then she got a job for a magazine company where she sold articles
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like to do marketing articles.
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And she traveled all over the world.
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And so she's been to over 36 countries.
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She lived in eight different countries, but Spain was her favorite country.
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So yeah, she settled there.
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And I understand why I love Spain.
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I absolutely, yeah.
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Rupert Isaacson: Hard not to.
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Yeah.
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Christine Doran: Yeah.
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It's, it's such a special place.
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And so, I became the assistant director of an English academy out
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there where I taught English through
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Rupert Isaacson: You are how old at this point?
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Christine Doran: I was, let's see.
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I went out there at 19.
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Yeah.
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Rupert Isaacson: How have you become,
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' Christine Doran: cause my sister owned her own company.
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Rupert Isaacson: Ah,
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Christine Doran: and I went from being a helper to quickly moving
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up to being the assistant director.
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You asked such good questions.
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It's family.
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Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Where you're sort of born into the union but you have no vote.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Got it.
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Yeah.
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Christine Doran: So, yeah, I lived with her for nine months and
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then she happened to have a house about an hour outside the city.
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And Okay.
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I, I jumped at the chance to live on my own.
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And I remember I was, one time I was in Madrid and I was like, oh my
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gosh, what kind of life am I living?
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Like, how blessed am I?
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And I go to like, take in the air and I end up coughing, not breathing.
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It was very air.
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And at that moment I was like.
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It's time to move out of the city.
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I'm gonna need some fresh air again.
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And
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one of the first things I did while I was there was I looked up therapeutic centers
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that were in the area and I happened to find this amazing woman named Maria Jose.
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And she allowed me to exchange English lessons for her, teaching
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me how to run a therapeutic center.
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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
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Christine Doran: And it was very eye-opening to me.
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I had always had, when I was taught how to be around horses, it was very cowboy up.
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You tell that horse what to do.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I was never taught the proper way to really fit tack
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and just really make the horse.
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Important.
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And so it was very eye-opening for me to go, whoa, there's
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a whole other world out here.
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And so I stayed with her for those two and a half years that I was out in Juncos.
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I, I went like weekly and worked with her.
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And then I actually, after the first year, went back to Missouri, realized
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Rupert Isaacson: One quick question.
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Yeah.
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Is Maria Jose still operating outside Madrid?
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Christine Doran: I believe she is, but I haven't spoken to her in years.
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Rupert Isaacson: What is the name of her place?
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I'm, I'm just gonna feel a podcast
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Christine Doran: now that you say that I'm gonna have to do some research.
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I'm gonna have to go back into my emails and see what it
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Rupert Isaacson: wants.
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Okay.
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Would you, because this is clearly someone I think we should talk to.
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Yeah,
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Christine Doran: absolutely.
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Rupert Isaacson: Maria was a outside, what was the name of the town?
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Christine Doran: Kos.
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It's Y-U-N-C-O-S.
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Rupert Isaacson: Kos.
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Okay.
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While you are telling us the rest going on, I'm just gonna
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do Yeah, but Google Okay.
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Christine Doran: Ahead.
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Go.
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That's great.
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So I I actually went back home and I got there and I realized that
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Missouri was just too small for me.
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And I literally booked another ticket back out to Spain and hopped back across
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the ocean again for another two years.
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And then I, I really felt a calling to go back to school, start my own
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business, and I absolutely would've stayed in Spain and done it.
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I just could not handle seeing my sister running her own business that you would
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go to one place, they would tell you, these are the rules, do this, this, and
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this, and then you go to the next place and they're like, well, that's not it.
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There's like no cohesiveness between places.
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And so I was like, I don't wanna lie, hire a lawyer for every little thing
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that I have to do with a business.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so I decided to come back to the states.
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Since I felt like I had outgrown my town in Missouri, I decided to set
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up shop in the Chicagoland area.
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Both of my parents are originally from here.
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Okay.
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And so I thought, you know, if I fail miserably, I've
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got people to fall back on.
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Thankfully I didn't.
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So I, I ended up going on a blind date and meeting my husband and,
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you know, rest is history there.
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But we
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Rupert Isaacson: I've met him a few times now and he has that slightly
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bewildered look of a man who met a horsey girl and can't quite remember
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what life is actually like now.
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Yeah.
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His
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Christine Doran: mother tells me, she says.
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I have no idea like how he actually got with you because you are just
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everything opposite of what that man like could have possibly ever dreamed of.
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She explains it so well.
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She says that I have never colored inside the box in my entire life and
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Matt doesn't even know that a box exists 'cause he colors so far inside belongs.
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But opposites attract, right?
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Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Christine Doran: It works for us.
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So yeah, I moved back to the states and I started going to
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university and I got an opportunity.
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Rupert Isaacson: What'd you go to university to do?
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Christine Doran: Marketing.
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Okay.
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Of all things because I knew I
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Rupert Isaacson: wanted to.
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Andy, if you're gonna go run a center though
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Christine Doran: Yeah.
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I figured I would need to know how to do things if I was gonna have my own company.
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Yeah.
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And I had the opportunity.
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To work for a place called, excuse me, the Disability Resource center.
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And I started out the executive director, she has cerebral palsy
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and she needed someone to be her assistant to be her hands.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so I gotta see the inner workings of a 5 0 1 C3.
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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
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Mm-hmm.
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Christine Doran: And then the opportunity a couple years later came up for me to be
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an advocate for people with disabilities.
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And I loved that job.
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I loved
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Rupert Isaacson: it when you said the opportunity came up to be an
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advocate, what does that mean?
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Christine Doran: So they had a job opening that they needed another
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advocate, and so I stepped away.
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Rupert Isaacson: And what does it mean to be an advocate like that?
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Christine Doran: So that is where you are like a social worker without the degree.
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You have people coming in that may need housing, may need mental health services.
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Okay.
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There's a wide variety of you had people coming in that, you know, were
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dealing with DCFS and they needed to know how to better themselves
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that just didn't have the education.
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Rupert Isaacson: CFS
11:54
Christine Doran: Yeah.
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So that's like, department of Family Services.
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So like when they come in, before they take your kids, they usually
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try and keep you together and you have to follow certain things
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in order to keep your children.
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And so a lot of times it was lack of knowledge.
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People didn't have tools on how to be a good parent, and that's
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stuff that we would help them with.
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And so it was a very rewarding, rewarding job.
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But I found there were two things that were really disheartening.
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There was no funding for people.
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Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
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Christine Doran: And there were no programs for mental health.
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And that started to weigh on me.
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Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
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Christine Doran: So,
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Rupert Isaacson: yeah, because I guess the, the majority of people in that.
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Family situation you'd be dealing with.
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There would've been so many mental health issues there.
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Yeah.
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Christine Doran: A lot.
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Yeah.
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A lot of mental health.
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Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
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Christine Doran: And it just really began to weigh on me that
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I couldn't help these people.
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Mm-hmm.
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There was nowhere else to send them to.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I kept hearing a whisper, it's time to start your nonprofit.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I kept going.
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Well, that's sweet, but I really like a steady paycheck.
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So,
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yes.
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No kidding.
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No thanks.
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And God likes to knock me hard since I'm so thick.
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Cutted.
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And in October of 2014, I suffered a traumatic brain injury.
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I was riding one of my horses and she loved to buck and I had been
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riding her for like an hour and a half, and I had just gotten over
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influenza and had a really bad day at work, and I was just gonna ride it
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out, thought I'd try some new t and I was so weak that I couldn't even.
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Adjust myself when my saddle started to slip that I started to go under
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her and she was very green broke.
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That if I would've gone under her, she would've killed me.
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She would've trampled me.
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And so that flight or fight response kicks in and I threw myself over her.
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And when I did that, I caused shaken baby syndrome pretty much on myself, that my
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brain rattled around different parts of my skull, and then my foot got stuck.
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My right foot got stuck in the stirrup, and I knew if I didn't get it out by the
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time I landed, that I would be dragged.
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And so I used those precious moments to get my foot out and
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just took a really hard landing.
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And so, yeah.
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I was wearing a riding vest.
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I was wearing a helmet, but I suffered a compression injury on my right shoulder
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and a compression injury to my right hip.
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And then my head did not hit the ground, but the force of me
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throwing myself did the damage.
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And unfortunately the doctors that I didn't tell me how serious
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it could be if I didn't lay low.
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And so
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Rupert Isaacson: I was Why do you think they didn't do that?
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Christine Doran: I really think there wasn't a a real knowledge with TDIs.
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It was really just like, oh, you've gotta, yes, they said traumatic
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brain injury and not concussion, but nothing was explained to me.
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No papers were given.
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There was just a, but
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Rupert Isaacson: they knew it was more than a concussion.
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Christine Doran: They did know it was more than a concussion.
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And I got told, well try and get into a neurologist.
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They gave me a couple names and it took me, you know, I think three or
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four weeks to get into a neurologist.
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Mm-hmm.
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And on my third week, my girlfriend from college got married.
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And so I went out and I drank like a fish, right.
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And danced the night away.
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And I remember getting into the car that evening and telling my husband,
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I said, something's very wrong.
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It doesn't feel right.
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And he said, you're drunk, go to sleep.
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And what I didn't realize, realize is that the first three weeks that you
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suffer a concussion, uhhuh, or a TB, I don't think that it has to just be a TBI.
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You could just have, you know, your whiplash concussion.
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Those first three weeks are incredibly, incredibly important to not jostle
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your brain, to not have any alcohol.
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That you can make it severely worse, which is what happened in my case.
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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
16:02
Christine Doran: And so I went from struggling to.
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Barely making it.
16:07
I
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Rupert Isaacson: How were you struggling before?
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Christine Doran: It was more of really intense headaches, just
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feeling like I was a bit sluggish.
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Like if you have some brain fog,
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Rupert Isaacson: a bit under watery.
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Christine Doran: But not, I wasn't in a state where I was like, oh,
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well something's severely wrong here.
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It was more like, oh, okay, I got a little bit of whiplash, I'll be fine.
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It's just gonna take me a little bit longer to do my work at work.
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I'll have to take breaks with my bad headaches.
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And then after I went drinking and dancing, I just jostled that brain so
16:49
much that it was like I just crashed downward where I went into work the
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next day and they ended up taking me to the ER because my face was swollen.
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And, my boss asked me to do an Excel sheet of just putting together like, I dunno,
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it was something about like school's names and their contact information.
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And six hours later I didn't have one name done.
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I could not figure out how to get what I needed to from my head onto the computer.
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And when she came in and looked at me, she immediately put me in a car.
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Rupert Isaacson: you danced and you drank and then,
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Christine Doran: and then it all went to
17:30
Rupert Isaacson: health.
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You face swelled and they rushed you to hospital.
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Yeah.
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So what happened?
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Christine Doran: There was no bleeding in my brain or anything.
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It simply was bruising in different parts of my brain is what they said,
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and that's why they said it resembled like the Shaken Baby syndrome.
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But it had huge lasting effects that for a year I couldn't drive.
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Okay.
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My whole personality changed where I think I'm a pretty kind person and
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you would not have wanted to know me.
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During that time.
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I, I had major anger issues.
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I was very impulsive.
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There was no filter.
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So I just said what I thought in that moment I had such hatred towards people.
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Which I knew wasn't me.
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But to be honest, I couldn't give two cares that it wasn't me.
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It was such a weird space to be in that I would look at Matt as he walked out for
18:27
work every day, and I'd be like, well, if he dies in a car accident, oh well.
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And then I would have like 1% of the time I would break down crying.
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Not that I actually felt love for him, but I knew somewhere I did.
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And I would cry to him saying, I think you're gonna leave me.
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And I don't.
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I was so open saying, I don't have feelings for you right now, but I know
18:53
what we had before my accident and I'm afraid this might be the end for us.
18:58
And so we went and we spoke to the neurologist about it and he said.
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You know, this is gonna be the biggest test of your guys' lives.
19:09
That Matt, either you'll hold out and one day she'll wake up and she'll
19:13
remember she loves you again or you'll leave before that happens.
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And it's really,
19:19
Rupert Isaacson: did you have kids at this point?
19:20
Christine Doran: No, we did not.
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Rupert Isaacson: Lucky you.
19:21
Yes.
19:23
Christine Doran: Very, very fortunate.
19:24
'cause you hear some of those stories that people get these head injuries.
19:27
Mm.
19:28
And then they become different people.
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And I did, I was, I was so hateful and had so many horrible thoughts in my mind
19:36
consistently that I started listening to Christian music because I thought,
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it's pretty hard to say really horrible things if you have Jesus love and
19:46
music playing in your ear constantly.
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And I hated that music.
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I was just like, it made me cranky to listen to it.
19:54
But I could remember that that wasn't, I didn't listen to Christian music
19:58
beforehand, but I had nothing against it.
20:00
But I was trying to come up with ways.
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'cause no one had any.
20:04
Insight for me of how I could get through this.
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Rupert Isaacson: What was interesting though is that despite the fact that
20:09
you were, you said you didn't give a shit, you clearly did give a shit
20:13
about not giving a shit otherwise you wouldn't have looked for strategies.
20:18
So for
20:18
Christine Doran: strategies,
20:19
Rupert Isaacson: what, where was, can you describe
20:25
that, that little part, that 1% part must have been more active than
20:28
just occasionally where you wouldn't have resorted to these strategies.
20:30
Right.
20:31
Must have been there
20:32
Christine Doran: back.
20:32
It must have been there more than I thought, because I
20:34
wanted my old life back.
20:36
I was not happy with what I had.
20:39
I may have been.
20:39
Were you
20:39
Rupert Isaacson: able to work?
20:40
I was not.
20:42
Okay.
20:43
Christine Doran: I was not.
20:44
And, and the, the worst part was, is that people kept saying, you know,
20:48
you can't play this card forever.
20:50
You need to go back to work.
20:52
Right.
20:52
And so it was like four or five months in, I tried going back to work because
20:55
I was feeling such intense pressure, but I literally had to relearn how
20:59
to touch my fingertips to my thumbs.
21:01
I lost that coordination.
21:03
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
21:04
Christine Doran: And, and to try and explain to someone when
21:07
I looked just like I do now.
21:09
Rupert Isaacson: Mm mm
21:11
Christine Doran: But on the inside I felt so broken.
21:14
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
21:15
Christine Doran: And no one gave me any space to heal there because I looked fine.
21:19
Rupert Isaacson: Have you subsequently done much research into TBIs?
21:24
For example, I had an ex-girlfriend whose son fell down the stairs and
21:29
he became kind of semi criminal.
21:34
You hear about other people having TBIs who wake up and can suddenly like
21:37
play the grand piano or speak French.
21:40
Christine Doran: Yeah.
21:40
Rupert Isaacson: But why do you think it is that we hear more stories about
21:46
it bringing out a massively demonic or negative side of the human psyche?
21:52
Why is that, do you think?
21:54
Why not?
21:55
Why not?
21:55
Why not?
21:55
In infinitude of, of different responses.
21:58
My
21:58
Christine Doran: my thought, and I don't know if I'm right or not, but
22:00
my thought is, is that we love to push so much down where we try and
22:04
mold ourselves into something that is perceived as what people want.
22:09
Mm.
22:09
That when you hit your head, that all goes out the window.
22:12
That's not an importance anymore.
22:14
That there's nothing holding any of that back.
22:16
That it almost just kind of, I don't know.
22:18
I felt like it just bubbled out of me.
22:21
Rupert Isaacson: I mean Right.
22:22
But, but you would think that as much as that, as much as
22:27
we repress, we express, right?
22:29
Yeah.
22:29
So that there's also a lot of, and, and not everything we repress
22:33
is, I'm just curious about this.
22:36
Not everything we repress is negative.
22:39
Like sometimes we repress immensely joyful sides of ourselves, or immensely
22:44
spontaneous sides of ourselves.
22:47
Why do you think more of those things didn't come out?
22:51
Christine Doran: Yeah, it's a really good question.
22:53
I'm truly, I'm gonna have to really think about this.
22:56
Rupert Isaacson: It's intriguing, isn't it?
22:57
Christine Doran: It's really intriguing of why I had such a negative side
23:01
come out of me when and, and that you hear so many more negative
23:07
sides come out of people when they,
23:08
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I'm actually doing a little Google here.
23:10
Why do TBIs?
23:14
Because, and the neurologist didn't have anything?
23:17
Christine Doran: No.
23:18
Unfortunately my neurologist was so old school.
23:20
I wish I would've been in my right mind.
23:22
Right.
23:23
That I would've gone.
23:24
We have world renowned doctors here.
23:26
Mm-hmm.
23:27
Yeah.
23:27
And I didn't go to one of those.
23:29
My, you know, the local hospital sent me to a local guy here who,
23:34
once I had actually started to heal a few years later, I had heard like,
23:38
oh my gosh, he's so old school.
23:39
He didn't, I wasn't putting any type of therapies for my head.
23:43
Nothing.
23:43
I was, I was even told not to take ibuprofen.
23:46
And the headaches that I had were worse than childbirth.
23:50
Like, they were so intense and they were never ending for me that I used
23:54
to just sit with like an ice pack and a tennis ball behind the back of my head
24:00
because the pressure was so immense.
24:02
And, and here I was told not to take anything.
24:05
And so I was just listening because I remember going to him and
24:10
repeating myself every single time.
24:12
And I would take a recorder with me and I would take a notebook
24:15
with me and saying like, I, I can't function as a human being.
24:20
What do I do?
24:21
And there was never, it was just, well, time.
24:24
You just need time.
24:26
That's all you can do.
24:28
Rupert Isaacson: I'm,
24:28
Christine Doran: I'm And then finally, yeah, go
24:30
Rupert Isaacson: ahead.
24:30
You know, keep going and then I'm gonna read what
24:32
Christine Doran: No, they ended up kicking me out of like my
24:34
physical therapy because Okay.
24:36
The shoulder and the hip were healing, but I had so many visual issues from it
24:41
that the floors would move up and down.
24:44
Okay.
24:44
The walls would come back and forth, that they actually kicked me out because I
24:48
wasn't having enough improvement that the insurance wouldn't continue to pay for it.
24:54
Okay.
24:54
And so instead of them sending me that, now I know that there's specific
24:57
therapies for traumatic brain injuries.
25:00
Like my mother suffered a traumatic brain injury last year, and they
25:04
had her in therapy specifically for that, for months on end.
25:08
I was never given any of those options.
25:11
And so
25:11
Rupert Isaacson: was that because of your insurance company or just 'cause less
25:14
Christine Doran: back then?
25:15
No, I had, I had the most amazing insurance that you could ever
25:17
ask for when I worked for DRC.
25:20
I truly think that it wasn't until a few years after my TBI, that the NFL
25:25
really started talking about TBIs.
25:27
Ah, and I think that was the big shift is that suddenly it took a, a forefront
25:33
that they were seeing big famous people having these different things happening
25:39
with their head from concussions.
25:41
And it started to be a spotlight and things started
25:44
to change within the system,
25:46
Rupert Isaacson: alongside the really negative behaviors.
25:48
Were you ever violent?
25:50
Christine Doran: No, I wasn't violent.
25:52
I just thought horrible things in my head.
25:54
Rupert Isaacson: And then the question then, why do you
25:58
think you weren't violent?
26:00
Because some people do get violent, and then the second thing is
26:04
were you did, did you have as much depression?
26:10
Or were you not depressed?
26:11
Were you actually more stimulated?
26:14
Christine Doran: No, I was severely depressed.
26:15
Okay.
26:15
My anxiety to this day, I still have to work on my anxiety.
26:20
Okay.
26:20
I did a lot of therapy for it to be able to control it.
26:24
And I truly think my saving grace was horses,
26:27
Rupert Isaacson: almost certainly.
26:28
Right.
26:29
Christine Doran: That's most
26:29
Rupert Isaacson: mind you, not that they don't shake your brain.
26:32
Christine Doran: Right.
26:32
I mean, she, she caused it, but really it was my fault.
26:34
I shouldn't have even gotten on.
26:36
And it really was a turning point for me because I couldn't drive for a year.
26:41
I didn't ride a horse for at least nine months.
26:43
I just didn't have the coordination for it.
26:44
Mm-hmm.
26:45
And so I started really researching groundwork and how to have a relationship
26:51
with a horse instead of me telling the horse what to do, how to have
26:55
that true partnership with them.
26:57
And that was a game changer for me.
26:59
I felt like that I had had so many moments where.
27:06
I got my horse to suddenly listen to me without even touching
27:09
her, just using vocal cues.
27:11
And it was this eye-opening experience for me that this horse, that when I would
27:15
get on her, would just run and not stop.
27:17
Suddenly I could get her to turn and turn different directions just by a vocal cue.
27:23
And I was like, I'm onto something now.
27:25
This is what I wanna do.
27:26
And it was really the beginning change for Triple H that I ended up starting.
27:31
My, my injury was in 2014, and then 2015 I started Triple H Tran.
27:39
Okay.
27:40
And that was the beginning of it, that I could no longer do my actual job.
27:45
And God forced me into Triple H.
27:49
And one thing that my neurologist said was, be outside as much as possible.
27:54
Be with nature as much as possible.
27:56
And
27:57
Rupert Isaacson: and why did he say that?
27:58
Did he give you a reason?
27:59
Christine Doran: He just told me that the mind does well being
28:01
grounded and, you know, I get it, like I do reiki and everything.
28:04
When you're grounded, you just do so much better that I, I think he had something
28:08
to it of not having that overstimulation of the lights, everything going on.
28:13
There has to be something to it in that way of, I couldn't go into a grocery
28:18
store for over a year because when you walk in, yeah, there's the bright lights
28:23
that could affect you, but what you don't understand is how much your brain
28:27
processes without you realizing it.
28:30
So I would walk in and I would be like, cash register woman with blonde
28:35
hair, blue pants, Snickers kit cap, and anything that I saw, my brain was
28:40
registering but screaming it at me.
28:42
Hmm.
28:43
That my brain would get to this point where everything would just go black
28:47
that I couldn't process anymore.
28:50
And I would just be left standing there like an idiot.
28:52
I couldn't move.
28:53
It was like the brain out.
28:54
It sounds, it
28:55
Rupert Isaacson: sounds like what Rowan, my son describes
28:58
in his early years of autism.
29:00
Christine Doran: It could be, could be very similar.
29:02
And maybe that's why we're so good with our programs is because
29:05
I had such a sensory processing.
29:07
Just everything was all out of whack.
29:09
And then I had a major processing delay where someone would wanna give me their
29:14
phone number and if they said like, seven
29:21
zero, that still sounded like someone was going seven zero.
29:26
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
29:27
Christine Doran: I couldn't process it, that I needed the time.
29:31
And it was unbelievably frustrating to know what I wanted to say and
29:38
no one giving me the time to get it out because silence is awkward.
29:43
And what I say now is silence is key.
29:47
That we give each person that walks through our doors the amount of time
29:52
that they need to be able to communicate with us and not what society expects
29:58
a normal time to be, to communicate.
30:02
And I think it's what makes us so powerful is that I really pride myself
30:07
in teaching my staff and my volunteers to really take the time to get to know this
30:13
person on a personal level and realize that there's no awkwardness with pauses.
30:18
That that true growth can happen with those pauses.
30:22
Because for me to try and get something out, someone would say
30:26
it again to me and I would start the processing all over again.
30:31
And I would just scream explicits in my mind too, that like, shut up.
30:36
I'm working so hard on the inside.
30:40
Rupert Isaacson: What, how could you with all of that.
30:44
Problematic stuff happening in your brain.
30:48
Take on the complexities of opening and starting to run an equine
30:54
nonprofit, because then you're going to need to deal with people.
30:57
Mm-hmm.
30:58
A lot of, one of the most
31:04
asinine things, I think one hears horse people say often dog people
31:09
too, is I love horses, I hate people.
31:12
And it's like, yeah, that does not help horses, because horses
31:17
are social animals who mm-hmm.
31:19
Interestingly enough, love people.
31:21
Same with dogs.
31:22
Christine Doran: Yeah.
31:22
Rupert Isaacson: And thrive when there's good human tribe, domestic
31:28
forces and do not thrive when there's dysfunctional human tribe.
31:32
And they certainly don't want the pressure of just one monkey, you know?
31:36
Christine Doran: Yeah.
31:36
Rupert Isaacson: On them.
31:36
They, they, they want diffuse.
31:39
You know, diluted personalities in the same way that, you know, kids do
31:43
or whatever, that takes the village to raise a child, blah, blah, blah.
31:45
So, you know, I know when you are at the helm of an organization that has
31:53
that number of variables and you gotta, you know, chase the funding and all
31:57
of that, how on earth could you do that with what was going on with your
32:01
Christine Doran: brain?
32:01
It started very small.
32:02
Very small.
32:03
My focus was training the horses first, where I went, okay, I can
32:07
do stuff on the ground, so I'm gonna do stuff on the ground.
32:09
Rupert Isaacson: So you used it as your own therapy effectively?
32:12
Christine Doran: Yes.
32:12
It was my own therapy and then I found that I could really understand the,
32:17
there was a couple girls that I had made like a Facebook page that was
32:20
something that I took me a while to do.
32:22
Everything was like slow motion for me.
32:24
Nothing came quickly.
32:26
Rupert Isaacson: Doesn't sound like it.
32:27
You had a, you had a, an injury one year and you opened the nonprofit the next.
32:31
Christine Doran: Yeah.
32:31
Rupert Isaacson: How did that slow.
32:33
Was that slow for Christie?
32:34
Christine Doran: Well, it was very slow once I got started with it,
32:36
because then I couldn't be at my job, so I had to come up with something.
32:40
I was like, what am I gonna do?
32:41
Because I can't, there was so much pressure from the people
32:45
that I knew saying, get with it.
32:47
Get it together.
32:49
You look fine.
32:50
That it was, I felt this burden upon me instead of choosing healing, like,
32:57
of just being still, I felt this huge pressure to get going on something.
33:02
Sure.
33:02
And so,
33:04
really?
33:04
Yeah.
33:05
And so I I really feel like the horses were such an integral part and God was so
33:11
good at putting people, when I made that Facebook post, I had a mom with two girls
33:15
who said, are you looking for volunteers?
33:19
And the two girls were twins.
33:21
And, they had some sensory processing disorders some on the autism spectrum,
33:27
and I related so well to those girls.
33:30
And I think it's because there was so much inside that was going on with me
33:35
that was relatable that I was, I was on a level almost with them on some things.
33:42
And the thing that we really connected over was horses.
33:45
And so they started on the ground with me too, learning what I was doing.
33:49
It was trial and error.
33:51
And as I started to get my feet of like, okay, this feels, I feel
33:56
like I have a handle on this.
33:57
I feel like I can, it, it was to the point when I started out that I couldn't
34:02
even watch my horse go in a circle.
34:04
I couldn't, my brain just couldn't move that quickly.
34:07
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
34:07
Christine Doran: And it was like these little baby steps that I was doing.
34:12
Eventually these girls took lessons.
34:14
And so I started out with three kids.
34:16
Just three kids in a lesson.
34:18
And then I, yeah, you know, you say, I, I was moving very slow.
34:23
I know you're joshing with me.
34:24
But then the next year, like in 2015 late 2015 I got pregnant
34:28
and that was a huge surprise.
34:31
Rupert Isaacson: So things must have improved between you and, Yes.
34:33
Your husband?
34:34
Christine Doran: Yes.
34:35
I liked to, yeah.
34:35
Or I just liked sex.
34:36
You know, I don't remember.
34:39
Rupert Isaacson: Well, here's a question.
34:40
Had your sex drive also gone during the really bad time, or was that always there?
34:47
And then if it was always there, did you then reject him?
34:50
Or did you still want that with him, but not the emotional connection?
34:55
Christine Doran: You know what was strange is I wanted more sex,
34:57
but it was because I was trying to find an emotional connection.
35:01
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
35:02
And then getting frustrated when you couldn't
35:04
Christine Doran: and I couldn't.
35:05
Rupert Isaacson: So, so there, so there must have been more
35:06
than 1% of you then Right.
35:08
Looking for that?
35:09
Otherwise you'd have rejected it Completely.
35:11
Christine Doran: Rejected it completely,
35:12
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
35:12
Yeah.
35:13
Okay.
35:14
That's interesting.
35:14
So that, again, that part of your subconscious brain clearly knew.
35:18
Just before we go further on with Yeah.
35:22
I just want to read you what I got about this.
35:24
No, let
35:24
Christine Doran: me hear it
35:25
Rupert Isaacson: because I think it, it is helpful.
35:27
So I, I typed in why do TBIs often bring out negative behaviors?
35:33
And it says because they damage the specific, I mean, this is ai obviously
35:37
they damage the specific parts of the brain, responsible for regulating
35:41
emotions, impulse control, and social behavior, the frontal lobe damage.
35:47
Reduces the breaking mechanism for so SelfControl emotional regulation.
35:52
We know this, that it makes you blunt risky behavior as well.
35:55
Christine Doran: Yeah.
35:56
Rupert Isaacson: And the amygdala and limbic system damage to those areas
35:58
can cause intense sudden emotional outbursts, such as unwarranted fear rage
36:03
or rapid shifts between extreme emotions.
36:06
Then there's neurochemical changes because if the injury disrupts
36:10
neurotransmitters, it affects how the brain produces information,
36:13
perceives threats causing the brain to overstimulate or react defensively.
36:17
It's so interesting.
36:18
It sounds so like the early you know, forms of, of extreme autism, but
36:23
what's interesting to me is it still doesn't, to me quite, and it says
36:28
ego egocentric behavior, but, but it doesn't quite answer why it can't also
36:35
bring out the opposite effect of over.
36:39
Overly positive or overly enthusiastic.
36:42
Yeah.
36:42
But maybe it can, and maybe it's just that that's not perceived as a
36:45
problem, so maybe goes under the radar.
36:48
And it also made me think just quickly, you know, back to sort of medieval
36:52
history and ancient history and so on, what, you know, psychopathic behavior.
36:57
Christine Doran: Yeah.
36:58
Rupert Isaacson: Among sort of knights and warlords.
37:02
And so I guess if you're getting just whacked on the head so massively all
37:07
the time falling from your horse bash, da, da da, that there must have been so
37:13
many people walking around like this.
37:15
And then you could like put a whole city to the sword, right?
37:18
Christine Doran: Yeah.
37:18
Rupert Isaacson: And not give a shit.
37:20
And then I've often wondered too, you know, why are so many people
37:23
in the horse world, you know.
37:25
So like this and that, and it does make me think, well, a lot of us
37:28
have fallen on our heads a lot.
37:30
Yeah.
37:30
A lot of my dysfunctional behaviors, you know, down to that.
37:34
Yeah.
37:34
You know, I've, I've fallen off a lot of horses, you know, so
37:37
it's just, it's inter these are interesting questions, aren't they?
37:40
Christine Doran: Yeah.
37:40
What was really interesting is I, I never woke up and loved my husband again.
37:46
Okay.
37:46
It
37:46
Rupert Isaacson: was
37:46
Christine Doran: that I fell in love with him again.
37:49
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you got to experience it a second time.
37:52
Christine Doran: I got to experience it a second time, and now we laugh that
37:54
when I'm really angry with him, I'm like, well, damn it, I chose you twice.
37:58
This is my fault.
38:02
Rupert Isaacson: You
38:02
Christine Doran: know, because you have to have humor in something
38:04
Rupert Isaacson: that, it's hard to imagine being angry with your
38:06
husband and as, as I've met him, and what can you possibly ever
38:08
do that could make you angry?
38:09
I mean, he's,
38:10
Christine Doran: oh, well, he can drive me really insane.
38:11
He's very good at
38:12
it.
38:15
Sure.
38:15
Your wife is serious.
38:16
Rupert Isaacson: Well, yeah, but I mean, I think with me the reason's
38:19
a bit more obvious, you know?
38:20
I mean, I'm, I'm, no, I'm
38:22
Christine Doran: very blessed.
38:22
I have a very good husband.
38:24
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, no, you do.
38:24
I mean, he, he,
38:25
Christine Doran: how many people can say that he does the
38:26
laundry, he does the dishes?
38:27
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I, I actually do a lot of that stuff too, but
38:30
Christine Doran: yeah.
38:30
Rupert Isaacson: Do you, I can just be very obnoxious.
38:31
Whereas I think your husband is much less obnoxious than me.
38:35
Christine Doran: Yeah.
38:35
Rupert Isaacson: So it is just hard to imagine him triggering, you know?
38:38
Right.
38:38
Yeah.
38:39
Christine Doran: And he's a very good man.
38:40
Rupert Isaacson: Humans are funny, but.
38:42
Can you describe, again, we're gonna go into a nonprofit, but I
38:44
think everyone would be intrigued to know what did it feel like?
38:48
How was it different to fall in love with the same person the second time?
38:51
Question one, did you remember how it felt to fall in love with him the first time?
38:56
And so was there a funny part of your brain contrasting and comparing?
38:59
And then the second question is, how did it differ?
39:03
Christine Doran: No, there wasn't a like, oh my gosh, this is so different.
39:07
It truly, I think, was that he was so steady in how our life was and was so
39:14
consistent with me that I, I truly think I fell in love with him the same way.
39:19
That I did beforehand.
39:21
Okay.
39:21
Because he is so kind and truly wants to see the best in someone.
39:26
Rupert Isaacson: That's what I, he's such a kind dude.
39:28
How can you possibly get so
39:29
Christine Doran: angry
39:29
Rupert Isaacson: with him?
39:29
Christine Doran: I mean, I'm,
39:30
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I'm,
39:30
Christine Doran: I'm, how many people can say that?
39:31
Like, their husband lets their wife go live out her dream
39:34
and doesn't, you know Yeah.
39:35
Bring in anything to support things, you know, that, but he believes
39:38
in what I do and is always for me, putting money back into scholarships
39:44
instead of bringing it into our house.
39:46
Or, you know, like there's so much that he sees the good
39:49
that's happening to other people.
39:51
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
39:51
Christine Doran: That he is always for me doing this.
39:55
Rupert Isaacson: If you're in the equine assisted field, or if you're
39:57
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40:02
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40:06
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40:21
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40:25
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41:14
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41:21
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41:26
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41:29
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41:32
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41:39
Yeah.
41:39
There's no question.
41:40
He's a very good man.
41:40
I can definitely see why, why you fell in love with him twice.
41:43
Christine Doran: Yeah.
41:43
Rupert Isaacson: But so it's, it's just interesting to me.
41:45
So you, you didn't feel it was a different experience.
41:48
You felt it was perhaps the same experience as Revisited?
41:52
Christine Doran: Yeah.
41:52
Do you know?
41:52
I didn't even realize I was falling in love with him.
41:55
It was just one day I woke up and I was like, I kissed him
41:58
and I was like, oh my gosh.
42:00
Like, I really feel it's not just chemistry.
42:03
I can feel that love between that kiss.
42:05
Mm-hmm.
42:06
That it was just like this eyeopening moment for me of like, everything that
42:10
he's doing is making me want him more.
42:13
I wanna be with this man.
42:15
But it wasn't a, oh, I've got back what I had.
42:18
No, it was this very slow and steady months on end Okay.
42:21
Of him just being consistent with me.
42:23
Rupert Isaacson: And then back to when you had the TBI and were in
42:26
the sort of grip of the negatives did, had, did the chemistry remain?
42:31
Christine Doran: The chemistry did remain, I still had chemistry with him.
42:34
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
42:34
Okay.
42:35
Well that was lucky.
42:36
I
42:36
Christine Doran: just didn't care if he went and got hit by a bus after chemistry.
42:39
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
42:40
Crazy.
42:41
But, you know, I guess that is the power of chemistry, isn't it?
42:44
Because if it also kept you together enough
42:46
Christine Doran: Yeah.
42:47
Rupert Isaacson: That it didn't turn into an abusive codependence.
42:51
Right.
42:51
Because you did come out of it.
42:53
But maybe if you hadn't had that chemistry.
42:56
You guys
42:58
Christine Doran: might not have made it.
42:59
Might not
42:59
Rupert Isaacson: have made it.
42:59
Yeah.
42:59
Christine Doran: I hadn't thought about it, but it's true.
43:01
It could possibly, because there is still so much of, I, you know, I
43:05
had such short term memory loss for so long that I don't know if you've
43:09
ever seen the movie 51st Dates.
43:12
Mm-hmm.
43:12
But I was not, Lucy, there's a patient in there called Ten Second Tom, and
43:17
that's who I was, that I would have to, we lived in a very tiny condo when I had
43:23
my injury, and I would put on a sticky note going to Kitchen to get water, and
43:28
then every foot I would put a sticky note, and by the time I made it halfway
43:33
down the hall, I'd forget what I was doing and I would have to follow my
43:36
sticky notes back to my original message.
43:38
Rupert Isaacson: That's like smoking weed.
43:40
Christine Doran: Isn't that?
43:41
Isn't that crazy?
43:41
Yeah.
43:42
And so I started teaching myself that, trying to make my brain go further,
43:46
that then I would start going, okay, well how far can I go before I forget?
43:50
Wow.
43:50
And I'm going to write that down on a sticky note again on the wall
43:54
and then see how far can I go?
43:56
Before, I can't remember what I'm doing.
43:58
How
43:58
Rupert Isaacson: long did that phase last For?
44:00
Christine Doran: Months.
44:01
Months.
44:02
Rupert Isaacson: Wow.
44:02
Christine Doran: And I still have a lot of long-term memory is just gone.
44:06
Like I it's weird.
44:08
Small things are weird.
44:09
Like I still with my oldest sister's name, like I forgot how to, I
44:13
even forgot my siblings names.
44:16
When I first had it, that there were several I couldn't remember.
44:18
And to this day I still have to think about mind.
44:21
There
44:21
Rupert Isaacson: are 10 of them.
44:21
Yeah,
44:22
Christine Doran: there are 10 of them.
44:23
Right.
44:24
But I would, I still like, will have to make myself think before I write Jennifer,
44:28
or when I'm doing Pilates, I am still having to work very hard to make my
44:35
opposite leg and my opposite hand go up.
44:38
Okay.
44:38
That there are still things that here we are, you know, nearly 12 years
44:42
later that my mind is still working on.
44:45
And, and my long-term memory, a lot of that is gone where like my college
44:50
stays and stuff, that there's a lot I can't remember, my friends tell me.
44:53
I was so much fun.
44:56
Rupert Isaacson: Well, generally one is so much fun that one cannot remember.
44:59
Yeah, exactly.
45:00
But here's another question.
45:02
Yeah.
45:02
You never fell out of love with horses during that time?
45:04
No.
45:04
Did you, did you cease to give a shit about your horse?
45:08
Christine Doran: Yes.
45:08
Okay.
45:08
I actually at one point but I think it was more after the beginning phase.
45:13
No.
45:14
But when I had my son that being mixed in with postpartum depression and anxiety on
45:19
top of the head injury, I nearly gave them all up that my husband is the one that
45:25
said, you will regret this for the rest of your life and I cannot allow you to do it.
45:30
Send your horses to Missouri where it's cheaper.
45:33
And when you are back in your right mind, we'll bring them back up and
45:36
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
45:37
So, so, so we are going to, we're going to now go forward in the story.
45:40
Back to that, yeah.
45:41
One last question though, given that you know, that, I know that
45:46
we know, know there's a lot of neuroscience based around when your
45:50
neurologist said go out in nature.
45:53
Christine Doran: Yeah.
45:53
Rupert Isaacson: But he didn't explicitly talk you through the
45:56
sensory stuff that we now know about, for example, through movement method
46:00
and how that fires the amygdala.
46:01
Yeah.
46:02
And he didn't tell you about BDNF, you know, brain derived neurotrophic factor.
46:07
Yeah.
46:07
How neuroplasticity works with novel movement and nature provides novel
46:10
movement all the time, of course.
46:13
And so on and so on.
46:14
Kinji cells, all this stuff that, it's surprising to me that he
46:20
was a brain dude, that he didn't spell it out for you like that.
46:22
Yeah.
46:22
Why do he didn't?
46:24
Christine Doran: I don't know, to be honest.
46:26
I'm just, maybe he thought that I wouldn't be able to comprehend it anyways, that
46:29
I was just sitting there muttering the same things that I kept asking
46:33
him of like, when will I, like Matt?
46:36
How can I start to get back to work?
46:38
When will my head stop hurting?
46:40
Like I think my, my thought process was so much smaller that maybe he possibly
46:46
just thought, it's not worth repeating this to this woman because I remember that
46:50
they did a an IQ test on me and I scored very low and I let them know that before
46:55
that I, I had a very decent IQ that, you know, things came very easy to me.
47:01
I had a photographic memory that I could memorize an entire play in
47:04
one night and feed people lines.
47:06
Like I now know why people were so incredibly frustrated
47:09
with me in high school.
47:11
'cause I never worked for anything and I got everything and that did not come back.
47:16
So everything that I do.
47:18
I work extremely hard for that.
47:21
I had to truly grieve myself like I died and that I came back as a new person
47:28
because I was so different after my head injury that it was making me sick to think
47:34
about what I had, and I felt just stupid.
47:37
I felt like I was just this absolute nimrod idiot walking
47:40
around and I had to tell myself,
47:43
Rupert Isaacson: why did you give a shit if you didn't give
47:44
a shit about other things?
47:45
Why did you care about that?
47:48
Christine Doran: I dunno, I, I don't think I had ever noticed how easy
47:53
things were and suddenly when I couldn't do something, it was like
47:58
the whole rug got ripped out from underneath me and I lost all identity.
48:03
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
48:04
And back, I guess probably to the straight up toddlerdom type frustration and not
48:09
being able to express oneself, right?
48:11
Christine Doran: Yeah.
48:12
Yeah.
48:13
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
48:14
Now I want to jump ahead.
48:16
So you start this nonprofit, it goes slow.
48:18
Your, your recovery's coming, especially groundwork.
48:22
And we know now, again, we talked about BDNF and kinji cells.
48:27
Nothing builds that, like working in hand with a horse, right?
48:29
Because you've got, yeah.
48:32
You've got to operate yourself.
48:34
You've gotta operate the horse.
48:35
You've got to, there's just so many more moving parts in a funny way
48:38
than there are when one's riding.
48:40
And the relationship is more direct.
48:41
Okay?
48:42
So everything's going well and you get pregnant and you have
48:44
a son and this is fantastic.
48:46
And then you get hit by postpartum.
48:48
Yes.
48:49
And you wanna give it all up.
48:51
Christine Doran: Yeah.
48:52
I
48:52
Rupert Isaacson: I,
48:52
Christine Doran: I didn't even love my son for 10 months.
48:55
Rupert Isaacson: So do you think that was linked to the TBI?
48:58
Christine Doran: I think so.
48:59
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
48:59
Christine Doran: I don't think it would've been as strong.
49:01
And that was so weird for me because I love babies and I
49:05
was so excited to have a baby.
49:07
And I remember him being born and placed on my chest and feeling nothing.
49:11
And no one's saying that that sometimes happens.
49:13
You know, that women always think that they have to have this amazing moment.
49:16
And yes, I've had that moment with one of my babies, but only one out of the three
49:23
did I have that instantaneous moment.
49:26
But it just, it didn't slowly come back.
49:29
It just kept getting worse that I told my doctor that I felt like
49:33
glass, that if someone touched me I would shatter into a million pieces.
49:38
And so then they went trying to find medication for me what would help.
49:43
I closed down the barn 'cause I had a boarding barn with it that at six weeks
49:48
I knew I couldn't, I couldn't function.
49:51
So I closed it down.
49:53
I re-homed some of the horses that I had.
49:55
I kept the the three that were the most important to me, that I
49:59
really had a deep connection with, and moved those down to Missouri.
50:03
And then I picked up a nannying job to pay for them because I didn't
50:07
wanna get rid of 'em, but I couldn't
50:08
Rupert Isaacson: because you love kids so much,
50:10
Christine Doran: right?
50:10
I know, right.
50:11
But I couldn't do computer work, so I was really stuck between this
50:14
rock and a hard place of needing to come up with six, 700 bucks a month.
50:19
Yeah.
50:19
And having this brand new baby and not knowing where do I, what do I do with it?
50:25
Yeah.
50:25
That I didn't have my family around.
50:28
And I remember my therapist saying to my husband, I don't think you understand
50:32
what a bad state your wife is in.
50:34
Maybe you should let her go to Missouri.
50:36
And he was like, no, I don't wanna be away from my kid.
50:38
But I think it would've probably been the best thing for me
50:42
to have a tribe around me.
50:44
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
50:44
Christine Doran: Where instead we did
50:46
Rupert Isaacson: you not have imported them?
50:47
Could you not have asked your mom and people to come up?
50:50
Christine Doran: My mom was still working at the time.
50:52
And saw my sisters were.
50:53
And so no one really understood what I was going through.
50:55
Mm-hmm.
50:56
And then it was just a really weird time that we had sold our condo
51:00
three weeks before I had my son.
51:03
And then the other house that we were supposed to be moving into kept getting
51:07
pushed back that we had to move in with my uncle for a couple months.
51:10
Then I moved into my in-laws house and things were very strained with
51:14
my, I have a amazing relationship with my in-laws now, but my
51:18
mother-in-law and I were really, you know, that was like her precious
51:21
baby boy that now had a wife and you
51:24
Rupert Isaacson: didn't love him
51:25
Christine Doran: and I didn't love him that she would come down.
51:28
And so we were staying and I, I would stay in the basement every day.
51:31
I just wanted to be in the dark with the baby.
51:32
Yeah.
51:33
And she would come down nonstop to make sure that I didn't commit suicide.
51:36
Rupert Isaacson: And why did you wanna be with the baby if you didn't love the baby?
51:40
Christine Doran: He was such a weird thing.
51:41
I can't even explain it.
51:42
I wanted him next to me, but I, it was almost like I, I kept telling
51:46
myself that I would fake it until I made it that I never wanted, wanted.
51:49
So again,
51:49
Rupert Isaacson: a little bit like when you have the TBI, that subconscious part
51:52
of you kicking in that says, I know this isn't right, so I'm gonna persevere.
51:56
Christine Doran: I'm gonna persevere and do it.
51:57
Okay.
51:57
And so I truly, I faked loving him.
52:00
I gave him all the kisses, you know, nursed him until he was almost a year old.
52:06
But had no connection until 10 months.
52:09
Something clicked at 10 months, and I was just obsessed with him.
52:13
But it wasn't until 10 months.
52:16
Rupert Isaacson: How interesting.
52:18
Okay.
52:18
So then, so you go through this, and then at what point do you
52:22
resuscitate your nonprofit and your,
52:26
Christine Doran: so it was pretty much around that 10 month
52:27
mark where I, I was like, okay.
52:30
I, I wanna find me again.
52:32
It was just, it was really weird.
52:34
It was like a light clicked and I was gung-ho about finding
52:39
me again and pursuing me.
52:41
And so I had one of my little ponies when I was struggling so badly with my
52:47
brain injury where I was having trouble being coordinated and walking straight.
52:53
I went and I grabbed the pony that I had had, I had it at a friend's
52:56
house and I went and I retrained him to be my service animal.
53:01
And when I was with him, I noticed my anxiety was down.
53:07
I could like control my level of emotions more.
53:11
And so I had him everywhere with me that if I
53:13
Rupert Isaacson: would like the emotional support animal.
53:15
Yeah.
53:15
You didn't teach him to drive an Uber.
53:17
Christine Doran: Right.
53:18
You know what he did is he was so wonderful that.
53:20
When I was so unstable and stuff that I would bring him into like the
53:25
grocery store with me and hold onto him
53:26
Rupert Isaacson: really?
53:27
Christine Doran: And he, I, he would pack all my food, you know, I'd put
53:30
it on around like a circ single on him and I'd go and check out and
53:35
then put it back in those bags.
53:36
And then he would jump into the back of my truck, walk into my house with me.
53:40
I put away my groceries and then he lived in my backyard.
53:43
Yeah.
53:43
Rupert Isaacson: Where is this horse now?
53:45
Christine Doran: He's still here.
53:46
So, he, now, since he was my service animal, I had to teach
53:49
him how to be potty trained.
53:51
And so now he goes into schools in nursing homes.
53:53
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
53:54
So he does that job.
53:55
How you teach him to be potty trained
53:57
Christine Doran: takes a long time.
53:58
You literally sit out in the yard with your child, wait for a horse to pee,
54:03
and as he's peeing, you say, go potty.
54:05
You click and you give him a treat.
54:07
And now when we go to events, I can have him get out of the car, go to
54:11
a mulch pile or the grass, and I tell him to go potty and he pees.
54:15
Rupert Isaacson: What about poo?
54:16
Christine Doran: What I have found is it's really difficult not to get
54:18
a horse to poop because if they have eaten, so I don't allow him to eat
54:21
for an hour before we go somewhere.
54:24
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
54:24
And
54:24
Christine Doran: I find that by not allowing him to eat
54:26
for that hour, he never poops
54:28
Rupert Isaacson: because I had a horse which called Clue who we used
54:30
to ride a quarter horse who used to take him into all kinds of buildings.
54:34
And, and I remember riding him onto like a dance floor, crowded dance
54:37
floor in a, in a club in Austin and onto the stage of the musicians.
54:42
And we did all kinds of crazy things with Clue.
54:45
He was amazing.
54:46
He was like the ambassador, you know?
54:48
Yeah.
54:48
Never once ped.
54:51
And it was after like, I think I took him into a building twice and we had
54:54
all the scoopers ready and he didn't.
54:57
And he didn't.
54:57
And I, I thought, I think he's getting it.
55:00
Yeah.
55:00
And I just had this faith after a while that he wouldn't and he won't.
55:04
And he never did.
55:05
Yeah.
55:05
He never won.
55:06
Christine Doran: I used to have a little bag that I would
55:07
Rupert Isaacson: put
55:07
Christine Doran: on him.
55:08
Rupert Isaacson: Alright.
55:09
A question too about horses, the horse that threw you, what became of that horse?
55:14
Christine Doran: Which one?
55:15
Rupert Isaacson: The horse that threw you.
55:16
The what Didn't throw you the horse that you had the accident with.
55:18
Christine Doran: Yeah.
55:19
She's here.
55:20
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
55:20
She's with
55:20
Christine Doran: me.
55:21
Yeah.
55:21
She is my heart horse.
55:23
Rupert Isaacson: Fantastic.
55:23
Christine Doran: I love her pieces.
55:24
She is the alpha of the herd.
55:26
Okay.
55:26
And that she is the one that she got released.
55:29
Rupert Isaacson: Did I meet her?
55:30
Christine Doran: You did.
55:31
She's my buckskin.
55:32
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
55:33
Okay.
55:33
Okay,
55:34
Christine Doran: Missy.
55:34
Yep.
55:35
So
55:36
Rupert Isaacson: she doesn't exhibit tho that, those extremes of behavior now.
55:39
Christine Doran: No.
55:39
No, but she truly was.
55:42
I like to say that she made me grow as an individual and as a horse
55:46
person, that she wasn't going to let me slide with what I knew she was
55:52
gonna make me learn new tactics that were more beneficial to everyone.
55:56
Rupert Isaacson: It's great that you, you, you managed to not reject or that,
56:00
you know, your husband didn't insist like, okay, this horse is dangerous.
56:04
Christine Doran: Yeah.
56:05
Rupert Isaacson: And that they, she now has her, her place in the therapy program.
56:07
That's, that's fantastic.
56:09
Christine Doran: Absolutely.
56:09
Rupert Isaacson: Alright, so you're in love, you fall in love with your son.
56:12
You fall, you fall in love with your husband.
56:13
Then you fall outta love with your son.
56:14
You fall back in up with your son.
56:16
You, you've got this, still got the heart horse.
56:18
Who caused the TBI thing in the first place?
56:20
God, we horse people are strange.
56:22
Christine Doran: Right?
56:23
Rupert Isaacson: Then, you know, it's funny,
56:27
Christine Doran: I lost my whole identity and created a new
56:28
one, but this horse will stay,
56:30
Rupert Isaacson: I think.
56:30
I think we should, I think that should be the title of this.
56:34
Why are horse people crazy?
56:35
We finally have the answer because we've all taken too many TBIs.
56:39
Alright, so now the nonprofit is beginning, at what point are you
56:45
starting like the full on rescue?
56:49
Christine Doran: Yeah, so we had done in 20, like 16, probably the middle
56:54
of 2016 I really started to find forces where they were finding me.
57:00
People were starting to say, Hey, do you think you could take this horse on?
57:04
And I was doing well enough by then I started to bring more kiddos into
57:08
my program that I needed more horses.
57:11
And so I thought, okay, I'll take 'em on.
57:12
Let me see if I can rehab 'em, you know, and, and I started really testing
57:16
out what I had learned with Missy when I had my TBI and started trying these
57:21
tactics on horses and going, wow.
57:24
I'm getting so much further and I'm not having these issues when
57:27
I'm riding 'cause I'm solving all the problems on the ground.
57:31
And it just kept building up from there that by the time 2018
57:36
came along, I had grown so much that I had moved several barns.
57:41
'cause I kept outgrowing them.
57:42
And the barn that I was at, the manager said, why are you here?
57:47
You're paying more and board than you are for a mortgage.
57:52
And I said, yeah, but my husband said he would divorce me if I ever
57:55
had my business in the backyard and I really wanna stay married.
57:59
So she's like, there is literally a place less than five minutes from this barn.
58:06
You need to look at it.
58:07
It just, you know, it's been for sale for a while.
58:10
They keep taking it down, putting it back up.
58:12
You've gotta look at this place.
58:14
And I said, no, don't even send it to me.
58:16
Don't do it.
58:16
And of course she sent it to me.
58:18
Okay.
58:18
And I look at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, I love this place.
58:22
And so I say to my husband, would you go and just look at it with me?
58:28
Just look, that's all I wanna do is look, we don't, we don't
58:30
have to actually do this.
58:32
And he said that he went just to appease me and to really shut
58:35
me up, is what he has told me.
58:39
And then he got here and he couldn't find one thing that he
58:43
didn't love about the property.
58:46
And the property was not made to be like.
58:50
A therapeutic ranch in, anyway, the, the driveway was like carriage size.
58:55
The driveway ended at the house.
58:57
The barn was had a basketball court in it.
59:01
It had a loft rooms.
59:03
I mean, it was just, it was not met for horses.
59:06
There was a stall barn, but it flooded really badly.
59:09
And I loved it.
59:10
I wanted it.
59:11
And so he said, well, let's just go to the bank.
59:14
I don't even think we can afford this place.
59:16
I said, okay.
59:17
And it ended up being that we were approved for the exact amount that
59:21
they were selling the house for.
59:23
Rupert Isaacson: How interesting.
59:24
Christine Doran: And so we put in an offer and the guy didn't
59:27
wanna budge on the price.
59:29
He was like, no, you don't get anything with it.
59:31
I want the price I want.
59:33
And so we were like, well, you know what?
59:35
We really love it.
59:36
We'll, we'll pay him full price.
59:37
Fine.
59:37
Yeah, sure.
59:38
And, at the very last minute, like the last week before closing, our
59:42
bank decided they wanted one more.
59:45
Oh, what is it called?
59:45
When they, they see how much your house is worth?
59:48
The, the name's escaping me.
59:50
Rupert Isaacson: Oh yeah.
59:51
The valuation.
59:52
Christine Doran: Yeah.
59:52
So they came out and they said it was 20,000 less than
59:56
what he was selling it for.
59:58
And we thought he was gonna walk away from it.
1:00:00
But his wife by then had found her perfect home and she told
1:00:04
him, screw you, we're moving.
1:00:07
Okay.
1:00:07
And so we ended up here and that really allowed us to blossom was at
1:00:12
the end of 2018 and allowed me to really grow in the way I wanted to.
1:00:17
And I had no restrictions by other borders meeting the arena, and that
1:00:22
it just allowed us to flourish that.
1:00:24
Then we started getting horses from auction for slaughter.
1:00:27
And then and how did that
1:00:29
Rupert Isaacson: happen?
1:00:29
How, how did you, how did you end up getting horses from that?
1:00:32
Christine Doran: So there was a guy about four hours south of here that someone
1:00:35
introduced me to, and he has a meat truck that gets delivered and he has 10 days
1:00:42
to sell whatever's on that meat truck.
1:00:44
And so he auctions those horses off and whatever gets sold, gets sold and
1:00:48
whatever doesn't loads back up on the meat truck and heads for slaughter.
1:00:52
Rupert Isaacson: And why does he get these horses?
1:00:53
What's, what's the, what's the infrastructure?
1:00:55
I think a lot of people don't, under don't understand this, it's worth going into,
1:00:58
so one often hears, oh, this horse was a kill pen horse, but what's a kill pen?
1:01:03
Right.
1:01:03
What do people mean when they say that?
1:01:05
So you really know this from the inside.
1:01:08
This is actually not my world at all.
1:01:10
Like I've, I've definitely taken horses that people have said,
1:01:13
I'm gonna put this horse down.
1:01:14
And I'm like, okay, fine, I'll take him.
1:01:16
Yeah.
1:01:16
So it's happened to me a couple of times and they've always turned
1:01:18
out to be fabulous, but I've never.
1:01:21
Rehomed horses from a kill pen.
1:01:23
Yeah.
1:01:23
Just because horses have never come to me that way.
1:01:26
So I've always been a little bit intrigued by what do people actually mean by that?
1:01:29
So can you Yeah.
1:01:30
Just talk us through the infrastructure whereby this man receives that meat
1:01:33
truck and how these horses end up on this meat truck in the first place.
1:01:37
Christine Doran: Well, and I don't think that people realize that
1:01:39
there's such a demand for horse meat.
1:01:41
Okay.
1:01:41
That's why it exists.
1:01:43
So, they used to allow in a couple states within the United
1:01:48
States to slaughter horses, and that stopped over a decade ago.
1:01:51
And so the, the numbers started to drop because you have to go to Mexico
1:01:55
or to Canada to slaughter a horse.
1:01:58
But it went from like, I think 120,000 a year to, I think last year it was a
1:02:02
little over 20,000 horses got slaughtered.
1:02:05
But zoos buy the meat up like that because it's such high protein meat.
1:02:10
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:02:11
Christine Doran: So there is always a demand for the meat there.
1:02:14
But also there are places in Europe that eat horse meat.
1:02:18
And so, I mean, I would
1:02:21
Rupert Isaacson: what pet food doesn't go to pet food?
1:02:23
Christine Doran: You know, I used to always think that it did, but the
1:02:25
more research I did, I found out more of it was the zoo and for people.
1:02:31
But what I find interesting is there's really not a ton of regulation on.
1:02:38
They tell you when a horse has to have their last meds or
1:02:41
whatever before they're killed.
1:02:43
But do you know that they're actually following that?
1:02:46
That we we don't know because I don't think it's a very regulated system.
1:02:51
I could be, I could be wrong there, but you really have no idea how long that
1:02:55
they've actually been there or not.
1:02:58
So Okay.
1:02:58
I think that most people have no idea that it actually exists still.
1:03:01
They think that there's so many bad rescues out there that aren't
1:03:04
actually rescues and that are getting all of this money in.
1:03:09
They're very good at marketing and making it look like that they're helping
1:03:12
out animals, but they're really not.
1:03:14
And so
1:03:15
Rupert Isaacson: what does that mean exactly?
1:03:17
Be specific?
1:03:19
Christine Doran: So like, what are they actually doing?
1:03:21
Rupert Isaacson: Are you saying that there are horse rescues out there that
1:03:23
are actually just getting horses in and then selling them for slaughter?
1:03:27
Christine Doran: Oh, I'm saying that I do know of one that.
1:03:31
I've been even told by a volunteer who used to work at another rescue
1:03:35
that when they couldn't adopt out the horses, they just sent them to auction.
1:03:40
And that, I don't think happens all the time.
1:03:43
I think most of the time when you have these false ones, they're
1:03:47
not even rescuing the horses.
1:03:48
They pretend that they're rescuing, they show you all these horrible
1:03:52
images of horses, but they're not actually doing anything.
1:03:54
Or they're rounding them up and they're not caring where they go.
1:03:58
That a lot of rescues,
1:04:01
Rupert Isaacson: this is, this is a, this is a problem.
1:04:02
This is like a thing.
1:04:04
Christine Doran: It's a major problem that I can't even talk about when it
1:04:07
comes to if I wanted to try and get a sponsorship from, some type of large
1:04:14
company, hello Shadow, A large company that actually deals with horse stuff,
1:04:19
maybe boots or you know, whatever it may be, ar, ot, or you know, just big
1:04:23
companies when you apply and saying that you're a rescue, a lot of them don't
1:04:28
even look at you because rescues get such bad raps that so many people lie.
1:04:34
Rupert Isaacson: A little bit like bad foster parents who are
1:04:36
just doing it for the paycheck.
1:04:38
Christine Doran: Exactly.
1:04:39
Rupert Isaacson: How interesting.
1:04:40
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.
1:04:41
Rupert Isaacson: I had no idea.
1:04:42
You'd have thought I would've, I would've after so many years in this field.
1:04:46
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:04:46
So I try very hard to be as transparent as we possibly can with our social
1:04:50
media, with our online numbers of how much money we raise everything.
1:04:54
Because especially when you're a smaller nonprofit, small nonprofits unfortunately
1:05:00
have a very bad reputation as well.
1:05:01
Not just in the horse world, just any small nonprofit of taking advantage of the
1:05:06
tax exemption and donations and using that money for however they want, and not, I
1:05:13
Rupert Isaacson: think that's Go to church.
1:05:13
Yeah.
1:05:14
Sorry.
1:05:15
I know you're
1:05:17
Christine Doran: so, so we're.
1:05:18
It does happen.
1:05:19
Right.
1:05:19
So we're very good about that.
1:05:21
If money comes in where people want it to go to food, we literally
1:05:25
label that money as just food money.
1:05:27
Right.
1:05:27
We have it very strict within our accounting.
1:05:31
Rupert Isaacson: if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast,
1:05:34
I'm guessing you are, then you've probably also always wondered a little
1:05:39
bit about the old master system.
1:05:42
of dressage training.
1:05:43
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step
1:05:52
exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse
1:05:58
of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional
1:06:05
well being of the horse and the rider.
1:06:07
Intrigued?
1:06:08
Like to know more?
1:06:10
Go to our website, Helios Harmony.
1:06:15
Check out the free introduction course.
1:06:17
Take it from there.
1:06:18
Okay.
1:06:19
So.
1:06:21
The auctions.
1:06:23
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:06:24
Rupert Isaacson: Where are they held?
1:06:27
Christine Doran: There's different places.
1:06:28
Rupert Isaacson: County have one.
1:06:28
Do they run by counties?
1:06:29
Are they run by private companies?
1:06:31
How does it work?
1:06:32
Christine Doran: A lot of 'em are private, that there's just auctioneers and then
1:06:36
some of 'em they have like, there's one in Indiana where it's known as the kill
1:06:41
pen auction or just auction horses where people will put, like just the regular
1:06:47
auction people will put like a certain bid that they have to meet on a horse.
1:06:51
Right.
1:06:51
You know, things like that.
1:06:52
The kill pen horses, you can see they, most of 'em look horrible.
1:06:57
Though I have gotten really good horses that I did not have to do much with
1:07:04
and they ended up in the kill him, that I don't think people realize
1:07:07
that when you just give away a horse.
1:07:11
And you are not knowing where that's going to.
1:07:13
If you, if you're gonna give away a horse, if you're gonna, you know,
1:07:16
let a horse go for cheap whatever.
1:07:18
If you don't have a buyback contract, if you're not using a rescue
1:07:20
to do that, that will actually take the time to check in again.
1:07:24
You don't know where that horse will end up.
1:07:26
We had something like that.
1:07:27
Recently, my farrier, he was given this thoroughbred 'cause he works at the track
1:07:32
and he was gonna retrain it and stuff.
1:07:36
And some girl said, Hey, do you wanna swap horses?
1:07:38
I really like the coloring of this one.
1:07:40
And do you wanna, and he said, yeah, I mean, if you've got one
1:07:42
that's already broke, I'll swap you.
1:07:44
Well then he got called up by like the board of the racetrack.
1:07:47
He goes, that horse ended up at.
1:07:50
And it's chipped.
1:07:51
So when they scanned it and they were like, why did one
1:07:53
of our horses end up here?
1:07:55
So he almost got in huge trouble and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
1:07:58
I just traded.
1:07:59
I had no idea this girl was gonna do anything.
1:08:01
Wow.
1:08:02
And it's, it's just such a common thing that even my
1:08:05
farrier is like, what the hell?
1:08:07
I didn't know that this existed so much.
1:08:09
And I said, when are you gonna learn If you have a horse that you need
1:08:12
to like get rid of, give it to me.
1:08:14
I promise you I'll
1:08:15
Rupert Isaacson: find It's so funny that I'm, I'm so used to, we're so
1:08:18
used to horse people being so obsessed with the welfare of their horses.
1:08:22
Yeah.
1:08:22
We all are that I think we just can't imagine this.
1:08:27
And it's funny, when I was a boy growing up, we, we would have e each
1:08:30
market town, and it still happens in the uk, would have a horse auction.
1:08:34
Melton Berry was the closest one to me, so we'd go down to Melton sales frequently
1:08:39
because they wouldn't just sell horses.
1:08:41
They would often, they would have secondhand tack and live
1:08:45
other livestock, and it was just sort of a countryside thing.
1:08:50
But you would sometimes go there to scan for something that looked useful.
1:08:56
But I do remember often seeing horses that were like, there's no
1:09:02
way this horse isn't, you know, like, who's gonna take this horse?
1:09:05
So I presume the meat men must have been buying, but it
1:09:08
wasn't overtly talked about.
1:09:10
Even when you were walking around those sails, people wouldn't
1:09:13
say, oh, those are the meat men.
1:09:14
And they're, you know, it was all, even if it was in plain
1:09:18
sight, it was hidden, I suppose.
1:09:21
Or perhaps we were willfully blind.
1:09:23
I don't know.
1:09:24
Is it, is that basically how it is then in
1:09:27
Christine Doran: Yeah, I don't think, I think you're right.
1:09:29
I think people don't even wanna imagine that something like that could happen.
1:09:32
And yet it happens at such a regular rate.
1:09:35
That last year alone, we took in 25 horses that, that were
1:09:41
just in horrible conditions,
1:09:43
Rupert Isaacson: you know?
1:09:43
And it is so weird that we have no problem with raising any other livestock for meat.
1:09:52
And in fact, people who, so let's say someone raises beef cattle and
1:09:57
they could be all free range pigs.
1:09:59
Like real pride in
1:10:01
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:10:01
Rupert Isaacson: And we would all consider, oh, that person treats his
1:10:04
animals so well, the moment that person would be raising horses for meat.
1:10:08
Yeah.
1:10:08
In the same way, even if the horses were so well cared for and looked fabulous,
1:10:12
we would censor it, wouldn't we?
1:10:13
We would say that's beyond the fail.
1:10:15
Yeah, absolutely.
1:10:15
Because culturally that, but, but you know, it's so weird.
1:10:18
When I was in Mongolia, I totally ate horse because Yeah.
1:10:21
People, if a horse dies, they're not gonna out there on the step.
1:10:24
You're not gonna eat it.
1:10:25
Of course you gonna eats waste and you're gonna wear it and you're gonna.
1:10:28
Yeah.
1:10:29
You know, it's, it is gonna become your tent, it's gonna become your
1:10:31
boots, it's gonna become everything.
1:10:34
And it changed my attitude that way a little bit.
1:10:37
Yeah.
1:10:37
But it, but it doesn't negate the welfare.
1:10:42
Those mongolians out on that step are looking after their horses very well.
1:10:46
When it's time for them to go, it's time for them to go.
1:10:48
They don't have someone who can conveniently show up with
1:10:51
a back home and take that away.
1:10:53
Yeah.
1:10:53
Christine Doran: And I think that people, they don't wanna think about what happens
1:10:55
to the horse after they're done with it.
1:10:57
Where I find like, here they really, really love horses.
1:11:00
And then it gets to a point where it can't do something for them.
1:11:04
Rupert Isaacson: Well, you know, you know what the, the, the, the old
1:11:07
way for the English fox hunters, and actually it's still that way, I think
1:11:09
in, in among the Americans as well.
1:11:11
What our, what we all used to do in that culture was when a
1:11:14
horse, it was their time to go.
1:11:15
Yeah.
1:11:16
The person who would come around and put the horse down always came from the local
1:11:20
hunt kennels, and they would take the horse carcass and feed it to the hound.
1:11:25
However.
1:11:27
It was put down in the most humane possible way.
1:11:29
It was done at home.
1:11:30
It was, there was no transportation involved, no stress.
1:11:34
The horse had its face in a, you know, big thing of mash.
1:11:38
People were crying, saying goodbye to the horse.
1:11:40
The horse was now 30 years old, you know, and doddering and time to go.
1:11:44
And now it would be a lethal injection and the, and the meat is toxic.
1:11:48
You couldn't feed it to anyone.
1:11:49
It has to be incinerated, but it was actually a humane system.
1:11:54
And I think it does still go on that way.
1:11:56
So it's very, but there was no abuse of the horse leading up to that point.
1:12:00
I guess that is the, the thing, when I saw those two horses, so, yeah.
1:12:06
Listeners and viewers.
1:12:07
I, the first time I went to Christine's, it was such an eyeopener for me because
1:12:12
you had, you'd just taken in two horses.
1:12:14
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:12:14
Wellow and River.
1:12:15
Yep.
1:12:16
Rupert Isaacson: I got to see them luckily again eight months later or so.
1:12:20
Yeah.
1:12:20
Yeah.
1:12:20
They're
1:12:21
Christine Doran: doing great.
1:12:21
Rupert Isaacson: And they're looking, you know, really good.
1:12:23
Yeah.
1:12:23
But my god, my jaw dropped and I hadn't seen a horse.
1:12:27
I, I lived in India for a while.
1:12:29
There are street horses there.
1:12:31
You want to see a starving horse?
1:12:32
You, you know.
1:12:33
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:12:33
Rupert Isaacson: And I hadn't seen anything like that since then.
1:12:37
And I was just like, whoa.
1:12:39
This happens in, not just in America, but in Midwestern America
1:12:42
where there's like a lot of grass.
1:12:43
Remember we had that conversation.
1:12:45
Lot of, gosh.
1:12:45
I was like, you have to try quite hard actually to starve a horse.
1:12:49
Mm-hmm.
1:12:49
Outside of like January, because grass grows like everywhere.
1:12:56
Christine Doran: You know what I find?
1:12:57
There's this weird thing here in Illinois when I first moved here
1:13:00
and I was looking for pasture board.
1:13:02
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:13:03
Christine Doran: The woman that I called said, you do know it gets cold here.
1:13:08
Right.
1:13:08
And I was like, you do know there are horses, right?
1:13:12
You do not.
1:13:13
There's, there's something in Illinois that's and not everyone, but I find that
1:13:19
this state truly likes to treat their horses like puppy dogs or something,
1:13:23
that they keep them stalled a lot.
1:13:27
They only go out on nice days.
1:13:28
There's not this big thing into grazing.
1:13:31
So there's this abundance of grass, but they mostly keep the horses stalled.
1:13:36
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
1:13:36
But those people, they might, we might, might not be happy with them stalling
1:13:40
their horses so much or whatever, but the horses are well fed to starve a horse.
1:13:46
Yeah.
1:13:46
In Illinois is tough.
1:13:48
Right?
1:13:49
It happens.
1:13:49
You just have to lock it in a shed, right?
1:13:51
Christine Doran: Yes.
1:13:51
No.
1:13:52
They, they, they leave it in a stall like we had.
1:13:54
So Leo and river and Willow, who you saw
1:13:57
mm-hmm.
1:13:58
There were four horses on that property.
1:14:00
And the owner kept two of the horses in the barn and fed them.
1:14:06
And then Willow and river were kept in an outdoor pen that people
1:14:11
were like renting the land from.
1:14:12
And that owner walked by every single day and saw these horses literally starving
1:14:18
to death and chose to keep feeding his horses and not say anything to those
1:14:22
people because he was getting a little bit of money each month to rent his land.
1:14:29
Rupert Isaacson: How did that end up?
1:14:30
How did he end up getting, I guess, busted?
1:14:34
Christine Doran: There was a camper fire on the property, and there is a law that
1:14:38
whenever there is a fire, the sheriff's department has to show up in case there
1:14:41
was arson and it was clearly not arson.
1:14:44
And the sheriff was just being nosy and shining his flashlight and spotted
1:14:48
the two horses, and we got called.
1:14:51
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
1:14:52
Christine Doran: so it was,
1:14:53
Rupert Isaacson: what happened?
1:14:53
What happened to the guy?
1:14:54
Christine Doran: The owner got nothing.
1:14:56
And then the two, there was two different men that owned each horse.
1:15:00
The, the owner of River who was extremely emaciated.
1:15:05
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:15:05
I remember
1:15:05
Christine Doran: he got a slap on the wrist.
1:15:07
And then the owner of the mayor didn't get anything.
1:15:10
And the owner, and I don't think what the courts understand is the
1:15:14
only reason why that Marere was in better shape is she was the alpha.
1:15:18
So she got more food, she pushed him away from it.
1:15:20
Hmm.
1:15:21
So he got off simply because his horse was shooing the other horse off of food.
1:15:27
But it's very aggravating because the laws are not for the animals at all.
1:15:33
Rupert Isaacson: How often do you get a call like that?
1:15:36
Christine Doran: Well last year I think about over half of our horses,
1:15:41
out of the 25 were extreme calls.
1:15:46
Rupert Isaacson: And how many of those horses make it into your program?
1:15:49
Christine Doran: So we kept, I think about six of 'em right now.
1:15:54
'cause our program's growing now that we're teaching.
1:15:57
Yeah.
1:15:57
You know, learning to keen and really growing, we wanna not start
1:16:00
over of rehabbing a horse mm-hmm.
1:16:02
Let alone training it.
1:16:03
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
1:16:03
Christine Doran: So we're holding onto some of the horses, but
1:16:05
we don't have a lot of land.
1:16:06
Mm-hmm.
1:16:07
So I really believe in being responsible that we have to be horse
1:16:11
helpers and not horse hoarders.
1:16:13
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
1:16:13
Christine Doran: So, it'll be 11 years in March that we've been doing this
1:16:16
and we've rescued over 125 horses.
1:16:20
Rupert Isaacson: And how do you manage to then?
1:16:24
Or can you, is it, is it even humanly possible to ensure that they don't
1:16:28
end up in the same place again?
1:16:30
Christine Doran: So we're pretty strict about it.
1:16:31
We try to make it not where it's impossible to get a horse.
1:16:34
But we find that because we are so open and honest about the horse's
1:16:39
abilities, we don't lie about anything.
1:16:41
That there are no white lies.
1:16:43
And I find that a lot of organizations just to try and keep helping
1:16:46
animals, they try and get 'em out.
1:16:48
But yeah, my thought process is if I lie, even one small lie, that horse has
1:16:54
the potential to end up back into this.
1:16:56
Yeah.
1:16:57
And so all of the horses that we have adopted out, we still stay
1:17:00
in contact with the families.
1:17:01
They become like family to us.
1:17:02
Rupert Isaacson: How do you find, how do you find it, the people to
1:17:05
adopt them out to It can't be easy.
1:17:07
Christine Doran: Social media has been our best friend that
1:17:09
we have a very good following.
1:17:11
And I think because my reputation holds in a world where the
1:17:17
horse industry is just known.
1:17:18
I don't know if it's like this over where you are, but.
1:17:21
The biggest liars I've ever met have been horse people.
1:17:24
I always say there is no, there is no gray in the horse world.
1:17:28
It's black and white.
1:17:29
You either have really good people
1:17:31
Yeah.
1:17:31
That have just very good souls, or you have the worst people
1:17:35
that you will ever encounter.
1:17:37
And so if you think that they're the best people, and months later they
1:17:41
say something that just hits your soul the wrong way, know that there
1:17:45
is something dark and nasty underneath there that I've never found a gray spot.
1:17:49
Rupert Isaacson: Maybe it's the TBIs.
1:17:51
Christine Doran: Maybe it's the TBIs.
1:17:52
There's no gray.
1:17:53
There's no gray.
1:17:53
I have found
1:17:54
Rupert Isaacson: no gray.
1:17:54
Okay.
1:17:54
So, so it's, it's, it's astonishing.
1:17:58
I, I take my hat off to you.
1:18:01
Christine Doran: Thank
1:18:02
Rupert Isaacson: you.
1:18:02
Because it's damn hard to, to rehome a good horse.
1:18:08
Even a good horse.
1:18:09
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:18:09
Rupert Isaacson: Well, to rehome it well, I mean, if you've got a
1:18:12
good horse, everybody wants that horse, but to, to make sure that
1:18:14
it ends up where it should end up.
1:18:16
But when horses lack.
1:18:18
Physical ability or you know, you know, they're coming with so
1:18:23
much trauma that, you know, your average person can't really deal.
1:18:28
Rehoming them is not easy.
1:18:29
It's an art.
1:18:31
What do you think, beyond being transparent, what do you
1:18:35
think the art is of rehoming?
1:18:38
The really difficult,
1:18:40
Christine Doran: you let them heal.
1:18:41
You get a horse that people want.
1:18:43
They may not be able to do everything that they, you know,
1:18:46
some people just wanna pasture puff.
1:18:48
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
1:18:49
Christine Doran: But I find that.
1:18:51
By first, you know, rehabbing of getting their, their body back and
1:18:56
then putting them out with my horses.
1:18:59
Kind of like how horse boy you learn through osmosis, you know?
1:19:02
Mm-hmm.
1:19:02
That I'm doing that with my horses and I'm letting them
1:19:05
learn through the other horses.
1:19:07
Mm.
1:19:07
That they get to see how to interact with one another, but
1:19:10
also how to interact with humans.
1:19:12
And so I don't even try to jump in and say, you should trust me.
1:19:16
I'm a good person.
1:19:17
Right.
1:19:18
No.
1:19:18
I let them see that I'm a good person by interacting with my other horses, and
1:19:23
then we start building on from there.
1:19:25
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
1:19:25
But what about the ones that have like really come with the just big physical
1:19:29
issues after what they've gone through had
1:19:31
Christine Doran: so, so like physical issues, like they're hobbling or like that
1:19:35
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, like that.
1:19:35
There'll just never be sound again that, you know, they can't be a riding horse.
1:19:38
They can't really even be that much of a working horse.
1:19:40
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:19:41
I tend to usually find them with like retired people who don't
1:19:45
wanna ride anymore, but they wanna brush and love on a horse.
1:19:48
Rupert Isaacson: They want something,
1:19:49
something
1:19:49
Rupert Isaacson: to love.
1:19:50
Christine Doran: I have found that I've been extremely successful at
1:19:53
rehoming horses who can never be ridden.
1:19:55
Rupert Isaacson: Do you, do you mentor other people who are starting rescues?
1:19:59
Because this sounds unusually.
1:20:04
Effective what you're doing.
1:20:06
Christine Doran: I don't, but I love the idea because so many
1:20:09
Rupert Isaacson: I think you should.
1:20:09
I think you should.
1:20:10
Christine Doran: So should many people tell me that I
1:20:11
should just put horses down?
1:20:13
That they come in like, toast, who was gonna be our school master horse
1:20:16
Rupert Isaacson: because he was
1:20:17
Christine Doran: toast.
1:20:18
Toasted.
1:20:18
Marshmallow.
1:20:19
The love that he came from auction for slaughter.
1:20:22
He was over 400 pounds underweight.
1:20:24
Hmm.
1:20:25
He had a massive viral infection.
1:20:26
His feet looked like dinner plates when we got him, and he had been beaten
1:20:32
so severely that he no longer had a flight response, but a fight response.
1:20:37
Hmm.
1:20:37
And when I got him, I was pregnant with my second and I couldn't even
1:20:41
work with him because when you walked into the pen, he tried to kill you.
1:20:45
I mean, it was just flat out, you had a horse in there who
1:20:47
was ready to take someone out.
1:20:49
And we said, okay, well let's just feed him.
1:20:54
And let his wounds heal.
1:20:56
He had a huge knot on his forehead.
1:20:58
We see that time and time again, unfortunately, and it's when people are
1:21:02
riding and they don't like what the horse is doing, they take a two by four and they
1:21:06
hit them in the head while they're riding.
1:21:08
I mean, it's just things that you don't, you feel like, oh my
1:21:10
gosh, that could never happen.
1:21:12
And yet I've seen it multiple times.
1:21:14
And so of course he didn't trust people.
1:21:17
Of course he wanted to kill them.
1:21:18
And because we take it slow and we allow, and truly, I can't take all the
1:21:23
credit for toast because toast really changed because of a little five-year-old
1:21:29
nonverbal boy who would go up to his stall door and would shake it like hell
1:21:35
while toast out his butt to him because he felt he was just drawn to toast.
1:21:40
And toast every single time, would turn around, put his head over the gate, and
1:21:45
would give kisses to this little boy.
1:21:49
And it was that child that made that horse, not me, but that child.
1:21:53
That told that horse that there are good people out there.
1:21:56
Rupert Isaacson: It's so interesting, the, yeah, I remember when my, obviously when
1:22:00
my son and Betsy made their connection.
1:22:04
I remember looking at that direct line between that little nonverbal
1:22:08
autistic boy and that horse and going, I really thought I knew about horses.
1:22:15
I know a very little bit about horses.
1:22:18
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:22:18
And I really felt like I had a handle on things.
1:22:20
And then you came in last March and I, I wasn't sure.
1:22:25
I was like, okay, I am, I'm all for new experiences, but I also am very particular
1:22:32
about how my horses are treated.
1:22:34
That I, when you were talking about bits and I don't use bits, and I was
1:22:38
like, okay, well what kind of bit are you gonna use and what are you gonna do?
1:22:41
You know, I was, I was very on edge about it, but I had this big talk
1:22:45
with you and saying, listen, I chew everything that someone has to.
1:22:51
And then I will decide if I'm gonna spit it out or swallow it.
1:22:53
And you really went through and spoke with me about how important it's for
1:22:59
you that horses are well taken care of and that they're a priority in this.
1:23:04
And when you came out and you were working with Missy, Missy is a a very
1:23:11
unique being where if she does not like you and you keep pushing her,
1:23:16
when she says, I need a moment, you are gonna see a major reaction out of her.
1:23:21
And yet the moment that she even started to say, I don't like this.
1:23:26
Something feels wrong with this, you stopped and you said,
1:23:29
oh, you're such a good pony.
1:23:30
Give yourself a moment.
1:23:31
Take that in, let that register of what we're doing.
1:23:34
And it made me go, okay, this is someone I could follow.
1:23:38
This is someone I could learn from.
1:23:39
And what's been so beautiful with it is that by us taking.
1:23:44
You know, I, I'm now horse boy one, we did movement method
1:23:48
certifications and now we're into our second certification with Teke.
1:23:51
But just since last March, changing how I work with my students and really doing
1:23:59
Follow the Child and mirroring them, that one of our kids in our program who has
1:24:04
been with me for a couple of years and used to be so dysregulated that coming
1:24:08
to the ranch wasn't a fun thing for him, that we started using your tactics and
1:24:13
suddenly he's laughing and he's smiling and he wouldn't stay on a horse, and
1:24:19
now he doesn't wanna get off the horse.
1:24:22
And he went from not using his talker and not using sign language to, he
1:24:27
said his first word since he was two.
1:24:30
The last word he ever said was Daddy.
1:24:32
And he said, go.
1:24:34
And the parents are crying and we're just completely.
1:24:39
So happy for him.
1:24:40
But not only is it happening at the ranch now, he's now using the talker and he's
1:24:45
now using sign language off the ranch in school, at home that we're seeing
1:24:49
what you were talking about with us.
1:24:51
And it's just so cool to go, man, we haven't even dived deep enough
1:24:55
into this yet, that if we're already having these results, imagine what
1:24:59
we're gonna be like in three years.
1:25:01
It's such an amazing phase for us to be in.
1:25:04
Rupert Isaacson: You're kind, you know, if I owe it all to Temple grandad who
1:25:10
mentored me and told me, yeah, follow the child and what follow the child meant,
1:25:14
and obviously to my son and Betsy for showing me that radical transformation.
1:25:24
And then obviously finding out from neuroscientists why that radical
1:25:28
transformation had happened.
1:25:29
But
1:25:30
Christine Doran: yeah,
1:25:30
Rupert Isaacson: I can't really claim credit.
1:25:33
But I am.
1:25:35
'cause I'm really just a vessel of
1:25:37
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:25:37
Rupert Isaacson: That energy, that approach I suppose.
1:25:42
But what I am so glad of is I could not have imagined when I was standing
1:25:50
in a field 20 years ago with my son lost and not knowing what to do.
1:26:00
I couldn't possibly have imagined that 20 years on there would be hundreds of
1:26:06
thousands of people around the world.
1:26:08
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:26:08
Rupert Isaacson: Basically getting what my son got and making the
1:26:13
same improvements that my son made.
1:26:17
And so I'm just really honored that you gave me the time of day because for,
1:26:24
for, for my mission, it's, I happen to be uniquely positioned in that.
1:26:32
I'm a journalist, so I kind of ask questions.
1:26:34
So it was a natural for me to say, I will seek out a mentor who's that mentor?
1:26:39
And that's how I came up with Temple Grandad.
1:26:41
But also you know, I had horse skills.
1:26:45
I was living in the country, so although I was broke and I happened
1:26:48
to have this really good neighbor who, that's why it makes so much
1:26:52
emphasis on Tribe, who's the complete opposite political spectrum to me.
1:26:56
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:26:57
Rupert Isaacson: And we just liked each other anyway.
1:26:58
We didn't care.
1:27:00
And that's kind of how it used to be.
1:27:02
It's getting more polarized now as we know, but
1:27:04
Christine Doran: yeah.
1:27:04
Rupert Isaacson: And we need to get back to that because that little autistic
1:27:08
boy doesn't care who you vote for.
1:27:11
That horse doesn't care who you vote for.
1:27:13
Mm-hmm.
1:27:14
That suffering person doesn't, you know, it, it, all of that's really irrelevant.
1:27:18
That's irrelevant.
1:27:19
Monkey stuff, you know?
1:27:21
And one things I love about the populations of people that we work with,
1:27:25
and obviously the horses do, is they just bring us back to exactly what's important.
1:27:31
And that, of course is immensely healing for us.
1:27:33
So I, you know, it's immensely healing for me.
1:27:34
So when, when I came out to you, I thought, I don't really have anything
1:27:39
to, to, to teach this lady because I saw how you were rehabbing these horses
1:27:44
and I was like, man, I mean, if she just goes right on doing this she's grand.
1:27:48
I mean, sure there's a few tools I can share, but honestly, you know,
1:27:52
this is, this is really great work.
1:27:55
I'm just, you know, honored to have you as a colleague.
1:27:58
Christine Doran: Well, I really appreciate that compliment, but you
1:28:00
know, I think it's really amazing that what you're doing, that even our
1:28:05
foster care program that we run where we pair up a child and a mentor once a
1:28:09
week with a horse, and you're able to.
1:28:14
Do to keen with these horses and show these kids how to do this as well.
1:28:19
That there's so much relatability for these children that these horses
1:28:25
weren't taken care of, they were abused, they were neglected, and then
1:28:29
they got thrown out of their home.
1:28:31
You know that they're coming into this new spot, new place,
1:28:35
and there's relatability there.
1:28:36
And then we get to say to them, oh, well this horse gets to
1:28:39
go to a foster home next week.
1:28:42
Oh, this horse came back from a foster home.
1:28:44
But did you know, it's not the horse's fault.
1:28:46
It just wasn't the right fit for them.
1:28:48
We're here to find the right fit.
1:28:50
And so it's amazing to be able to take these rescue animals that you know, have
1:28:56
known what love is not, and put them in a place where there is love, and take them
1:29:01
with children that don't know what true unconditional love is, and then place
1:29:07
'em with these horses and then to be able to use to keen with it and they start
1:29:10
rehabbing these horses with us is so cool.
1:29:14
So cool.
1:29:15
Rupert Isaacson: It, it was a real revelation to me, the Teki program
1:29:20
because it came as, you know, out of also desperation and necessity.
1:29:26
Yeah.
1:29:26
Where we were running out of time to condition our horses, you know?
1:29:30
Because we just had so many clients and what we gonna do.
1:29:33
And then it was like that duh moment, like, of course the clients
1:29:36
should be the horse trainers.
1:29:37
Of course, of course they can totally do this.
1:29:39
And probably better than us because they, their egos aren't as involved.
1:29:44
And it was just this immediate, massive empowerment thing.
1:29:49
But also it took all the stress off me because suddenly I, I,
1:29:53
I didn't have to do it all.
1:29:55
And my wife, so, and I'm, I'm just very grateful for you to bringing
1:30:00
that into the Chicago area and, and, and to people, you know, like that.
1:30:04
As you were saying that about love, it made me think back to what you said
1:30:08
earlier in the conversation, though.
1:30:10
I, I, I wonder if you're uniquely positioned in this to understand about
1:30:14
the power of, of love because you lost it.
1:30:16
Because you lost love.
1:30:18
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:30:18
Rupert Isaacson: You know, maybe, I think most of us can't imagine that.
1:30:22
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:30:23
Rupert Isaacson: I think that's really outside of my can basic,
1:30:27
universal, unconditional love.
1:30:31
It's so much a part of me to think, wow, if I were to lose that, it would
1:30:37
feel like being the undead or something.
1:30:39
Yeah.
1:30:40
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:30:41
It's
1:30:41
Rupert Isaacson: a very good
1:30:42
Christine Doran: feeling.
1:30:42
Rupert Isaacson: It.
1:30:43
Do you ever talk to your some of your clients who are going through stuff like
1:30:48
this, about, about your experiences?
1:30:50
Do you share?
1:30:50
Christine Doran: Absolutely.
1:30:51
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:30:52
Christine Doran: So we had even volunteers and stuff.
1:30:54
I find that a lot of volunteers find us and they think that they're
1:30:57
gonna be helping and instead
1:30:59
Rupert Isaacson: they turn out to be clients.
1:31:00
Yes.
1:31:01
Christine Doran: They turn out to be clients.
1:31:02
Right.
1:31:02
That they get more healing out of it because they weren't expecting anything.
1:31:06
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:31:07
Christine Doran: And so I've been introduced several times to people
1:31:09
who have recently had TBIs and they're really struggling, the spouse
1:31:16
and the person suffering from it.
1:31:18
And I find that there's a level of comfort to know that someone else has gone through
1:31:23
that, that they've made it out to that other end and that I don't sugarcoat it.
1:31:29
It's hard, you know, there's, there's a lot of pressure put on
1:31:32
that, that other partner, I mean, my husband is truly an incredible man
1:31:37
to have held on when I was so cruel.
1:31:39
You know that, to know that I could come back, but to also be patient enough.
1:31:44
Brave, brave.
1:31:44
You could own it
1:31:45
Rupert Isaacson: too.
1:31:45
I mean, it, it, it, there must be some, there must have been a temptation to keep
1:31:53
that private because the shame involved.
1:31:55
There's regret.
1:31:56
Yeah.
1:31:56
There's, you know, but by, by owning it, you let everyone else own it.
1:32:03
Who's going?
1:32:03
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:32:04
I think I'm very big into, I always say that my goal with Triple H is to
1:32:08
knock down social barriers and to make things that are taboo at this moment,
1:32:13
to just knock them off their rocker and to make it a normalized thing.
1:32:17
And so, I have been very open about my past between, I had
1:32:22
a brother-in-law assault me.
1:32:23
I had the TBI and I find that when you are open about these things.
1:32:30
And you don't make it sound like a sh a shameful thing because none of it works.
1:32:34
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
1:32:34
But you also don't paint yourself as the vi as a victim.
1:32:37
I think, I think what's so cool about it is that you say, no,
1:32:40
look, you know, it made me behave really badly rather than poor me.
1:32:47
I was sort of the hero in the story.
1:32:49
Even though you had no choice in it, even though by no means was your fault,
1:32:53
I think own it's, it's the bravery of owning that to say I was cruel.
1:32:58
That is a really hard and brave thing to say.
1:33:01
I don't think you give yourself enough credit there.
1:33:04
Christine Doran: Well, thank you.
1:33:05
'cause I just think you got it.
1:33:07
You know, you have to.
1:33:09
I want other people.
1:33:11
Rupert Isaacson: It's kind is what it is.
1:33:13
Yeah.
1:33:13
It lets other people heal.
1:33:15
Christine Doran: I, I think so.
1:33:16
I think so.
1:33:16
I think that that's what I want for people though, is I
1:33:19
don't want people to struggle.
1:33:20
Like I've struggled and I don't want people to be ashamed.
1:33:23
Like I have felt shame.
1:33:24
Mm.
1:33:24
And so I find that.
1:33:26
If we use our voices and, and I always say, and I know you believe
1:33:29
in this too with your tribes, that the world would be a much better
1:33:32
place if we had a community again.
1:33:34
Mm-hmm.
1:33:34
That if we were to take care of each other and talk about our problems instead of
1:33:39
just I, I have a very strict rule here.
1:33:41
If I ask you how you're doing, you better not say fine, because
1:33:44
I will dive into your soul.
1:33:46
You better believe it.
1:33:48
Fines are not allowed here.
1:33:50
You can either tell me that life's great, life's just mediocre.
1:33:53
There's some things with work or school or whatever.
1:33:56
Or you can sit there and say, can I just talk in your office and you can
1:33:59
just cry on my shoulder, but I'm not gonna have a fine walk through my door.
1:34:05
Rupert Isaacson: I'm thinking about the passive aggressive.
1:34:06
Fine.
1:34:07
Then fine, fine.
1:34:08
I won't say fine.
1:34:09
Fine.
1:34:11
So you'll find
1:34:12
Christine Doran: me.
1:34:12
That would be my 7-year-old.
1:34:14
Rupert Isaacson: Tell me about your team.
1:34:16
Tell us about your team.
1:34:17
We've heard a bit about your equine team.
1:34:19
Tell us about your human team.
1:34:21
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:34:21
So, I like to say that everyone finds me, that people tend to say
1:34:26
that when they walk across our threshold, something feels different.
1:34:31
They feel like the outside world disappears.
1:34:34
And so what I have found is it draws in people that maybe no one wants
1:34:39
to give a second chance to, or that that they're struggling in life.
1:34:44
And so some of our team one of our team members has a learning disability.
1:34:50
And when he started with me, he had an aide that came with him
1:34:55
from school and literally had to be taught how to hook up a hose, how
1:34:58
to stack hay how to do animal care.
1:35:01
And now he's been with me for six years, and now he has a paid job.
1:35:06
And he gets to teach others how to do things and when he is learning
1:35:11
something new, because we don't hold expectations that everyone's the same.
1:35:16
We know that we take it and we break it down for him.
1:35:20
And it's not that he can't learn, it's that society believes that he
1:35:25
has to learn at a certain pace that no one's giving him the chance.
1:35:29
And yet our program has shown that he flourishes if you just slow it down and
1:35:34
give him a moment to grasp what he needs to do and don't say, do you understand it?
1:35:38
But instead say, say it back to me.
1:35:41
What did you get out of that?
1:35:42
You're able to see what he comprehended and what he didn't.
1:35:45
We've had multiple people come through with addiction.
1:35:48
Several of my team members have had some type of addiction in their
1:35:51
past, or they're currently working through an addiction, and it's a
1:35:56
space where no one hides anything.
1:35:59
So people talk freely and openly, whether they've been in recovery
1:36:02
for three months or 30 years.
1:36:06
That you have a space here where there's no judgment,
1:36:09
there's just a space of healing.
1:36:10
And so it's a very interesting dynamic that I have because most of the people
1:36:16
that are on my team have had zero, zero knowledge in horses, and they were just
1:36:23
drawn to this place for whatever reason and are now learning from the ground up,
1:36:28
which I don't mind because we know that there are so many bad habits in the horse
1:36:31
world of how they teach that for me, yes, it's extra work in some ways, but in other
1:36:37
ways it's less work because I'm not having to rebuild a bad, you know, get rid of a
1:36:42
bad habit and then put in a good habit.
1:36:44
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:36:46
Yeah.
1:36:47
I'm just thinking of course, it's the bad habits that brought the
1:36:50
horses to you in the first place.
1:36:51
Christine Doran: Yes.
1:36:53
Rupert Isaacson: I'm just thinking too about your, your experience
1:36:55
with the TBI of also losing your IQ and losing your ability to learn.
1:37:00
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:37:01
Rupert Isaacson: This also gives you a uniquely
1:37:06
empathetic
1:37:08
Christine Doran: Absolutely.
1:37:09
I always say I was a compassionate person and then I became an empathetic person.
1:37:13
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.
1:37:14
Christine Doran: Because I knew what it was like.
1:37:16
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
1:37:16
You say, you know, dude, I have actually been there.
1:37:18
Yeah.
1:37:19
Yeah.
1:37:19
Mm-hmm.
1:37:19
Yeah.
1:37:20
Christine Doran: It makes me so much more relatable, you know, because I think
1:37:23
Rupert Isaacson: you need to be running trainings in this.
1:37:25
You do.
1:37:26
You need, you need to create like, okay, you're, you're doing my methods and great.
1:37:29
That's grand.
1:37:31
Yeah.
1:37:31
But you are bigger than that.
1:37:32
When you put together your Triple H method, given that you are uniquely
1:37:38
poised to understand what it is, to lose love, to lose intellectual
1:37:47
ability, to lose sensory processing,
1:37:56
I don't think.
1:37:59
Many people in our field are quite so positioned.
1:38:03
For example, you haven't met her yet, but there's a genius lady who does
1:38:07
horse boy movement method in Te Keen in central Germany called GI Bergoff.
1:38:13
Amazing human.
1:38:15
I hope you get to meet one day.
1:38:16
She is also the mother of a, of a son who had spinal such severe spina bifida.
1:38:23
Yeah.
1:38:24
And hydrocephalus that they said to abort him they weren't gonna do that.
1:38:28
Yeah.
1:38:29
But they understood why the doctors said it, and therefore, what was coming,
1:38:35
they've, it's been a great success, but not without great, you know, struggle.
1:38:40
But she, before she got into all of this, she was a dementia nurse and
1:38:46
there's unique things she understands that she can bring to the table.
1:38:51
But I think to have gone through it yourself, like that early dementia
1:38:56
I would be very, very interested to see, and actually to help you when
1:39:00
you feel ready to structure out.
1:39:03
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:39:03
Rupert Isaacson: We, we need more and more approaches.
1:39:05
We don't just need horse boy movement methods.
1:39:06
Again, we don't just need path.
1:39:07
We don't just need life and chip.
1:39:09
We need an infinite number of these things because there's an
1:39:12
infinite number of of of contexts.
1:39:16
So, for example, when you come up with that, I would totally take your train.
1:39:22
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:39:24
Rupert Isaacson: Because I'd, I'd actually want to be trained by you for that.
1:39:26
Oh,
1:39:27
Christine Doran: thank you.
1:39:27
Rupert Isaacson: And then I'd want to integrate that into what I was
1:39:29
doing, you know, Nick, all your good ideas claim they were mine, you know?
1:39:34
'cause I've had so many TBIs that, you know, clearly I,
1:39:36
you know what I'm gonna do.
1:39:38
Christine Doran: I know.
1:39:39
Yeah.
1:39:40
Rupert Isaacson: Lull you into a false sense of security.
1:39:41
And then, but no, I mean, is unique Triple H that's why I had no hesitation right
1:39:49
after I did that first thing with you.
1:39:51
And even though the horses were somewhat uninformed at that point by Yeah.
1:39:55
You know, our attacking standard were, I'd say, no, no, these guys have got it.
1:39:58
They're, they're gonna get there.
1:39:59
So I immediately sent that family to you.
1:40:02
Yeah, that subsequently That's beautiful.
1:40:04
I was like, that's exactly what they need is that, is that environment and
1:40:09
any, you know, listeners and viewers, if you are in the greater Chicago
1:40:15
kind of area, and I would include like, you know, upper Indiana and
1:40:19
Lower Michigan and all those places.
1:40:21
You, you want to go check out Triple H if you've got anyone who
1:40:25
you feel could benefit from them.
1:40:28
And crucially, if you want to donate,
1:40:32
Christine Doran: absolutely
1:40:33
Rupert Isaacson: you can't really do better because the money's also going
1:40:37
to go to rehabbing these horses that.
1:40:41
By all rights shouldn't be able to make it and do.
1:40:46
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:40:46
Rupert Isaacson: It's, it's an extraordinary, extraordinary
1:40:54
achievement and it's, what I love is that it's, it's just beginning.
1:40:59
I feel triple HI
1:41:00
Christine Doran: feel the same way.
1:41:01
I feel like I'm just at my, just at the beginning of the store starting
1:41:06
to open and it feels really good.
1:41:08
Rupert Isaacson: So where's it going?
1:41:09
Where do you want it to go?
1:41:10
Let's dream.
1:41:11
Money's no object.
1:41:12
I don't want to be reasonable here.
1:41:14
Christine Doran: Yes.
1:41:14
Well, I don't believe in being reasonable, so, I've got my big dreams.
1:41:19
But you know, everyone told me Triple H wasn't gonna be here, so I'm like, you
1:41:23
know, I have, I have my people around me that keep me grounded, but my feet are
1:41:27
off the floor because I figure if you don't dream big, nothing can be possible.
1:41:31
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
1:41:31
Christine Doran: Also
1:41:32
Rupert Isaacson: the fun.
1:41:32
Yeah, yeah,
1:41:33
Christine Doran: yeah.
1:41:33
Where's the fun in that?
1:41:34
Where's the fun?
1:41:35
So, and you've gotta have fun in this because you deal with such extreme
1:41:41
cases between kids that come in
1:41:44
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:41:44
Christine Doran: And the abuse and neglect that you see and you hear, and
1:41:48
you read when you're doing your intake assessments to the horses, you have to be
1:41:52
able to have fun in this or you, you burn
1:41:55
Rupert Isaacson: out.
1:41:55
Well, right.
1:41:55
If, if the problem that we're dealing with suffering, the opposite of suffering
1:41:59
is you cannot have joy without fun.
1:42:03
It's actually a tool.
1:42:04
If we don't have it, we can't do the job.
1:42:06
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
1:42:07
Absolutely.
1:42:08
So let's agree.
1:42:08
Christine Doran: So what we're wanting to do is within two years, we're wanting to
1:42:12
raise funds to purchase a second property.
1:42:14
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
1:42:15
Christine Doran: And this property is specifically for adolescent
1:42:17
girls and mental health crises.
1:42:19
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, cool.
1:42:20
Christine Doran: Because I had one of my nieces attempted suicide
1:42:23
when she was 11, and I've been wanting to do this since I was 16.
1:42:28
But it became, you know, my own experience of seeing what these girls go through
1:42:34
when they either do attempt suicide or they're having these ideations of it.
1:42:39
And you get thrown into, you know, a mental institution with
1:42:44
white walls, nothing with nature.
1:42:47
And a lot of times there's just pills thrown at you.
1:42:50
It's
1:42:50
Rupert Isaacson: so bizarre, isn't it?
1:42:51
The moment someone's suicidal, they put them in a place that
1:42:54
makes them want to kill themselves.
1:42:55
So,
1:42:56
Christine Doran: yeah.
1:42:56
Rupert Isaacson: Crazy.
1:42:56
Christine Doran: And so, like for my niece, my sister had asked would
1:43:00
there be, you know, a strip search or whatever that she'd wanna be there.
1:43:03
Her daughter's only 11.
1:43:04
They said no, yet when she left, she was stripped.
1:43:07
Right?
1:43:07
And so, like my niece has all of that trauma of these adults staring at this
1:43:13
11-year-old who was just in her bra and underwear, and them checking her over to
1:43:18
see if she's hiding anything like that.
1:43:20
You know, she's gonna, you know, so there's, there's trauma that comes from.
1:43:24
Trying help seek help.
1:43:25
And what Triple H wants to do is to create a space with cottages instead and have
1:43:32
two to four girls living in a cottage
1:43:34
Rupert Isaacson: sanctuary.
1:43:35
Yeah.
1:43:35
Christine Doran: Yes.
1:43:36
And having a rage room and reiki and horse therapy and just all different
1:43:41
modalities of healing and having a, a large pond that they can row across.
1:43:46
Really being with nature to heal.
1:43:48
Going on trail rides together, having a big nest hall where we
1:43:51
talk together, we watch movies together, that it becomes a community.
1:43:55
Mm.
1:43:55
And that instead of these girls coming up to me that are in my program, and
1:43:59
they say, miss Christine, I was only in for 10 days instead of 21 this time.
1:44:05
And you have to be so proud of them for that.
1:44:07
We're failing our kids.
1:44:09
We're absolutely failing them.
1:44:10
That is a bandaid.
1:44:12
And I wanna be a place that has residential, but then also has
1:44:16
programs that are outpatient programs that you can keep coming back to
1:44:20
that we don't cut the line with you just because you're suddenly better.
1:44:23
No, we wanna get to the root of why do you feel like you're not worthy of being here?
1:44:27
Because you are so worthy of being here, you have so much to offer.
1:44:30
Mm-hmm.
1:44:31
And we want them to feel that too.
1:44:33
So that's like our two year goal of raising enough money to purchase
1:44:36
a second property for that.
1:44:37
And then we have a five to seven year goal where I really want to go into
1:44:41
the prison systems because when you look at foster care statistics, one in
1:44:48
four kids within the first two years of aging out will be incarcerated.
1:44:52
And 80% of current prisoners in our system right now have been in
1:44:56
foster care at one point in time.
1:44:58
So for the ones that I've missed that I didn't get in my Stable Moments program.
1:45:04
I then want to have a prison and parolee program where we go in and we take these
1:45:08
horses that would be killed at slaughter, and instead using methods like takin
1:45:15
and my own to rehab these horses and have them find these incredible homes.
1:45:21
And then you're already giving education and skills to these
1:45:24
prisoners that either if they're lifers okay, then they have something
1:45:28
to do that they're not just sitting.
1:45:30
But if they get out, then we have a parolee program and we're a stepping
1:45:34
stone where we take a chance on them where no one else would and Right.
1:45:39
Rupert Isaacson: And if they were lifers, they could still rehab the horses.
1:45:41
Christine Doran: Absolutely.
1:45:42
Rupert Isaacson: The host is a second wife.
1:45:43
Yeah,
1:45:44
Christine Doran: absolutely.
1:45:44
But the reentry rate is so incredibly high, and it's because no one, once
1:45:49
you have it on your record mm-hmm.
1:45:51
That you've done something, no one wants to take a chance on you.
1:45:53
And I wanna take a chance on people.
1:45:55
Not that everyone will make it, I'm, I'm not naive to that situation, but for those
1:46:00
that want it, I wanna be there for them.
1:46:04
Rupert Isaacson: It would be really interesting to you to trace the
1:46:06
TBI line or through foster care
1:46:10
Christine Doran: mm-hmm.
1:46:11
Rupert Isaacson: Or through incarceration or through, you know,
1:46:15
that I bet you that there is a s scan
1:46:20
Christine Doran: probably
1:46:21
Rupert Isaacson: to be detected and I I wonder if they are multiple ones.
1:46:27
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:46:27
Rupert Isaacson: Because somebody might have had like shaken baby
1:46:32
or fetal alcohol or whatever.
1:46:33
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:46:34
Rupert Isaacson: And then they get beat up as kids and things happen
1:46:40
with that, with the brain and then they get beat up as adolescents.
1:46:46
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.
1:46:47
Rupert Isaacson: And, and, and I wonder if it many times often just goes back to
1:46:52
something as almost biomechanical as that.
1:46:59
Which then resonates
1:47:00
Christine Doran: very interesting.
1:47:00
Rupert Isaacson: All the way through.
1:47:02
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:47:02
Rupert Isaacson: And then even if it didn't, if you took the
1:47:07
approach that it had happened, you would for sure get a good result.
1:47:11
So, for example,
1:47:14
as you know, I, I often wear a dressage hat now as well.
1:47:18
I, I go out and teach people that
1:47:19
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:47:20
Rupert Isaacson: I want them to do dressage, not dressage
1:47:22
and something that's nice for people in horses, you know?
1:47:25
Christine Doran: Right.
1:47:26
I love that.
1:47:26
Rupert Isaacson: So, well, like horse yoga really, and
1:47:31
the,
1:47:38
the parallel what makes me a better teacher with people is because I now
1:47:44
treat everyone as if they were autistic.
1:47:47
And I find if I just abide by the same rules
1:47:50
Christine Doran: mm-hmm.
1:47:51
Rupert Isaacson: That I would abide by if someone was really autistic.
1:47:55
Then I'm probably not gonna trigger, I'm probably not gonna
1:47:57
this, I'm probably not gonna that.
1:47:58
I'm gonna think about the environment.
1:48:00
I'm probably gonna keep my voice soft.
1:48:01
I'm probably gonna this, I'm probably gonna that.
1:48:04
Yeah.
1:48:04
Rupert Isaacson: And I'll just be less of a prick.
1:48:08
And it's funny because, you know, prick ishness can creep in.
1:48:13
Yeah.
1:48:13
And in that type of thing.
1:48:14
And it's funny, I've caught myself a few times going, Ooh, ru, you're, you're kind
1:48:18
of verging towards P freakishness here.
1:48:20
And then I'm like, Ooh, well what would I do if that was an autistic person and
1:48:24
I was getting impatient or something?
1:48:26
It's like, I don't, I'd apologize.
1:48:28
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.
1:48:29
Rupert Isaacson: So it's really interesting.
1:48:30
So I've got this thing now.
1:48:32
I'll apologize to my clients.
1:48:34
You know, I'll say, sorry, let me just own that, that, that was so not you.
1:48:38
That was so me.
1:48:39
It was just purely that, you know, I didn't sleep that well last
1:48:42
night and I'm a bit tired and
1:48:44
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:48:44
Rupert Isaacson: You know, I.
1:48:46
Let me just own that.
1:48:47
Can we just rewind and I, I apologize.
1:48:49
I sincerely apologize.
1:48:50
And it's funny, you know, no writing instructor ever did that to, you
1:48:54
know, let alone a parent to me.
1:48:56
But I, so I think if you were to apply the TBI rules and how it would've
1:49:05
gone well with you when you were in the worst of it to kind of everybody
1:49:10
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:49:10
Rupert Isaacson: How can you go wrong, really?
1:49:12
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:49:16
Rupert Isaacson: It's sort of a lesson for ticking the baseline.
1:49:21
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.
1:49:22
You know,
1:49:24
Rupert Isaacson: and, and not deviating from that baseline.
1:49:26
Yeah.
1:49:26
And I think there aren't many people who really understand that baseline,
1:49:30
like you do in our field, because not many have gone through it and, or
1:49:36
some may have gone through it and not known that they've gone through it.
1:49:38
'cause Yeah.
1:49:39
Lots of us have taken knocks to the head.
1:49:42
I think what's.
1:49:45
It's very different about you is that you're conscious of the whole thing and
1:49:47
you can kind of chart the chronology.
1:49:49
Does that make sense?
1:49:51
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.
1:49:51
Yeah.
1:49:51
Yeah, it does.
1:49:53
It does.
1:49:56
Rupert Isaacson: What we haven't asked you
1:49:58
Christine Doran: yeah.
1:49:59
Rupert Isaacson: Is what do the three Hs stand for?
1:50:01
Christine Doran: So it actually was done by my sister.
1:50:04
It was Hands Hos and Hope, but it was such a mouthful that we literally rebranded and
1:50:11
got rid of that one and just put Triple H.
1:50:14
Is
1:50:14
Rupert Isaacson: it so funny?
1:50:15
Triple H It sounds so good.
1:50:16
And you don't even think, well, I don't need to know what that is.
1:50:19
'cause it's like all these ranches, they all have these like Easy L or
1:50:23
Flying Bee or something, and it's like, well, okay, it's just a Western
1:50:28
sounding thing, which probably does go to like some family name or something.
1:50:32
Christine Doran: Yeah, no, it was just my sister came up with it.
1:50:34
I needed a name.
1:50:34
I couldn't think of one.
1:50:36
Yeah, probably 'cause I was suffering from A TBI that no creativity in me.
1:50:41
And she came up with it and then we let that one go.
1:50:44
'cause I, I didn't know enough to know that, oh, I could just like, you know,
1:50:49
do a DBA as triple H and totally just let Handsomes and Hope go and started
1:50:55
all the paperwork and the money again.
1:50:56
Again.
1:50:57
Oh.
1:50:57
Wasn't quite with it, with my TBI, but
1:51:00
Rupert Isaacson: are you creative?
1:51:00
You said you weren't creative because you, of the TBI.
1:51:03
Do you have creative outlets outside of this?
1:51:06
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:51:06
Rupert Isaacson: What do you do?
1:51:08
Christine Doran: So for me, I, I love to like knit.
1:51:11
I'm like a little old lady.
1:51:13
That's something that I really Okay.
1:51:14
Did you knit?
1:51:14
You
1:51:14
Rupert Isaacson: sure.
1:51:15
Christine Doran: I did not.
1:51:16
I didn't, no, I was gonna say that looks like a professional
1:51:18
Rupert Isaacson: job.
1:51:18
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:51:19
I can't, I can't take credit for that.
1:51:21
I like to do like baby blankets for people, blankets for my living
1:51:24
room, like little baby hats when, and so I love doing stuff like that.
1:51:29
I love to read, like, that's something I really love.
1:51:32
I, I tend to do reiki on friends and family when they want it.
1:51:36
That that's another one of my outlets that I love that.
1:51:39
Rupert Isaacson: So the reason I ask is, describe to me the loss of
1:51:45
creativity and describe to me the experience of refining creativity.
1:51:51
Christine Doran: You know, I think I have a deep appreciation for
1:51:56
joy now because when you lose it.
1:51:59
I didn't have, like, with knitting, I didn't have the coordination to
1:52:03
be able to do something like that, that when I would try and even do it,
1:52:07
I would give myself such a massive headache from trying to figure it out.
1:52:10
Mm.
1:52:10
That it was not fun for me that I used to golf a lot and that coordination thing,
1:52:16
you know, like you, you lose all of that.
1:52:18
And so I think I, I have an outlook on life of, and I think that's why I.
1:52:23
I don't hide anything that's happened because I think too many times in life
1:52:28
the way that people show themselves that if you look at me right now,
1:52:31
you'd be like, oh my gosh, she's got these three beautiful children.
1:52:34
She's a pretty woman.
1:52:35
She's got this amazing husband.
1:52:37
She's got this career going for her.
1:52:39
And it's, I never want people to think that that was an easy
1:52:43
thing and that I just got it.
1:52:45
I want people to know that you can work hard and go against
1:52:48
those waves crashing down on you, and you can still find success.
1:52:52
You can still find beauty, you can still find joy in things.
1:52:55
And I think all too often when we look at someone, we're like, oh, well,
1:52:59
they just have luck on their side.
1:53:01
And my marriage didn't start out like that before I even had my TBI, Matt and I.
1:53:05
Matt and I had very, very bad communication skills.
1:53:08
We did a ton of therapy together and we've both worked very hard on ourselves
1:53:12
and on our relationship, and so I think it makes a difference to, to really
1:53:17
appreciate what you have and what you've worked for and, and finding that that true
1:53:22
joy in it because you didn't have that every day that I can wake up and write
1:53:28
an email or, you know, go out and work my horses and not be tripping over myself.
1:53:34
It's a beautiful day to know that some people don't get that back.
1:53:38
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's so true.
1:53:39
I remember when I smashed my legs up and I was lying on a couch for a long time, and
1:53:44
I realized what a blessing it was to get up off a couch and walk to the bathroom.
1:53:49
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:53:49
Rupert Isaacson: Like, and I remember the first day I could, I'm like, I
1:53:53
will never take this for granted again.
1:53:55
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:53:55
Rupert Isaacson: Does it, does it really come down to gratitude?
1:53:58
Christine Doran: I think so.
1:53:59
I really think so.
1:54:00
I'm, so, I wake up every day feeling so blessed and.
1:54:06
Really deep gratitude for what I have.
1:54:09
Really deep gratitude.
1:54:11
I do not
1:54:11
Rupert Isaacson: take it
1:54:11
Christine Doran: well.
1:54:12
Rupert Isaacson: I'm very, very grateful for you and I'm grateful
1:54:15
for the work you're doing.
1:54:17
Can you, we we're, we're sort of now at the I know we talk
1:54:21
a lot, you know me, you and
1:54:23
Christine Doran: I are quite the talkers.
1:54:24
Rupert Isaacson: Well, what a surprise for me anyway, but Well, what,
1:54:28
what an excellent, excellent story.
1:54:30
You've told an inspiration.
1:54:32
People now need to know how to find you.
1:54:35
Get in touch you.
1:54:36
So let's do the plugs.
1:54:36
Can you give us all the coordinate emails?
1:54:39
Absolutely.
1:54:39
Christine Doran: So, even though we say Triple H, it's
1:54:42
literally spelled HHH Ranch.
1:54:45
So if they wanna find us, they just literally type HHH Ranch and then
1:54:49
Illinois into Google and we pop right up.
1:54:53
They want the actual website.
1:54:55
It's www.hhranchilforillinois.org.
1:54:59
And then like we talked about with the donations, everything's tax deductible.
1:55:03
We are a 5 0 1 C3, so they can always get that little extra incentive there that
1:55:08
if they don't just wanna give, but they want something in return, they can get it.
1:55:12
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
1:55:13
If people want to reach out directly to you, I presume there's
1:55:15
an email link on the Triple H.
1:55:18
Christine Doran: Absolutely.
1:55:19
There's a
1:55:19
Rupert Isaacson: contact form il.org
1:55:23
Christine Doran: org?
1:55:23
Yes.
1:55:24
Yeah, so they can just, just go on there and they'll find all of our
1:55:27
information and then Fantastic.
1:55:30
We're on TikTok, we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook.
1:55:31
You name it, we've probably got it.
1:55:34
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:55:35
And if anyone is out there thinking to be a horse rescue, now that we've
1:55:40
been educated a little bit in how, what a bit of a minefield that is.
1:55:45
Including, if you are doing it ethically that people might assume
1:55:48
you're not and not want to support you.
1:55:51
I suggest you reach out to Christine, who will mentor you a bit with this.
1:55:56
Christine Doran: Absolutely.
1:55:56
Rupert Isaacson: If you're going through TBIs, if you're going through depression,
1:55:59
if you're going through postpartum depression, I suggest you reach out.
1:56:03
If you are looking for how to bootstrap your nonprofit, I suggest you reach out.
1:56:09
I've been to her place a few times and it is fab and it's getting fab.
1:56:14
How much do you need to raise for those dreams, the se, those two and, and
1:56:19
seven year five to seven year phase.
1:56:21
So
1:56:22
Christine Doran: we actually, we have found a place that we really love that
1:56:26
is on 20 acres and it already has the plumbing and the the water and the
1:56:31
electrical set up that we could literally do little cottages, build them around 'em.
1:56:36
And that facility, they are wanting 600,000 for.
1:56:39
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you need to raise
1:56:39
Christine Doran: 600.
1:56:40
That's lot of updates that it needs.
1:56:41
But the initial to even get the property, we're looking anywhere
1:56:44
from like 600,000 to a million.
1:56:46
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:56:47
And then to develop it another 600,000 or more,
1:56:54
Christine Doran: probably more about a million.
1:56:56
Rupert Isaacson: So really you need to make two mil.
1:56:58
Christine Doran: Yep.
1:56:59
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:57:00
So Triple H needs two mil lads.
1:57:02
That's very reasonable in this day and age.
1:57:06
Christine Doran: Yeah.
1:57:06
Rupert Isaacson: Who wants to step up?
1:57:08
Shall we do a little crowdfunder maybe, or something?
1:57:12
Hmm.
1:57:13
Crack.
1:57:15
Christine Doran: Okay.
1:57:16
Rupert Isaacson: All right.
1:57:16
Let's, we'll, we'll talk.
1:57:17
We'll talk.
1:57:18
Yeah.
1:57:18
'cause I believe, I believe in it.
1:57:19
I believe in the project.
1:57:21
Thank you.
1:57:21
I'd like to see it work.
1:57:23
Christine Doran: Me too.
1:57:23
Me
1:57:23
Rupert Isaacson: too.
1:57:23
I think everyone listening and, and watching would as well.
1:57:26
Okay, lads, we have a mission.
1:57:28
Christine Doran: Woohoo.
1:57:28
Let's do it.
1:57:29
Rupert Isaacson: All right.
1:57:30
And I will see you.
1:57:31
This is January of 2026.
1:57:33
I will see you hopefully in June because we're, yes.
1:57:35
We're gonna in the Michigan area again.
1:57:38
Christine Doran: Okay, wonderful.
1:57:39
Yeah.
1:57:40
And if not, I'm wanting to come over to Europe too.
1:57:42
I figure out this, my sister and pop around and see you.
1:57:45
Rupert Isaacson: You know what?
1:57:45
Find us.
1:57:47
Christine Doran: You're just a hop, skip, and a jump away.
1:57:49
Rupert Isaacson: I am.
1:57:49
I am.
1:57:50
Well these days, everything is from everywhere.
1:57:52
Alright.
1:57:53
Until the next time.
1:57:54
Christine, thank you so much.
1:57:56
It's been great.
1:57:57
Thank you.
1:57:57
Christine Doran: This has been wonderful.
1:57:58
Thank you for your time.
1:57:59
Rupert Isaacson: My pleasure.
1:58:00
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