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Transcript

Storytelling Isn’t Extra - It’s How Impact Happens · Kind of a Big Deal

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to Kind of a Big Deal.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kristen Belden, and I'm so excited to dive in.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation with Tamiko Haim covers a lot of ground in the best way.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's spent over two decades working in government.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's navigated leadership in real and sometimes really hard ways.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's run for office, and through it all, she's stayed deeply rooted in her community.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: But what stood out most to me is how she thinks about story, who tells it, whose voices get heard, and how that shapes everything from our careers to our sense of legacy.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is bigger than just one chapter.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the through line.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hear from Tamiko.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Tomiko.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good to see you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, good to see you too.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited to get to chat with you.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Many times I'm chatting with a woman I've known for many years or have worked with in the past.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really rare that I get to chat with somebody that I'm still exploring kind of what your story is.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's always a real treat for me.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's fun, right?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like sometimes we don't get to talk about our stories in this way or have someone ask us the questions that really get to the heart of some of what we've experienced.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um we met.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have both been a part of a very cool program called Leadership Sacramento.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really cool opportunity to dig into behind the scenes of what's happening in the city, get to know other folks that really care about the impact they're having in your community.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So highly recommend if anybody's interested.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Would you also recommend?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Great time.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a native, so to figure out things or find out things about your area being a native, I think it's a wonderful opportunity.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Tamiko's just one of those women that you meet and immediately go, I feel like I've known you forever.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure I'm not the first person to say that.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes I talk too much.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably why we get along.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought we could start with you've been working in the public sector for over 20 years.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: 23 be 24 this year.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, which is incredible.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think there's so much, there's a wealth of wisdom I'm sure you could share just by navigating the evolution of even being in government for that period of time.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um but were you always interested in working in government?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know heck no?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to, I think I wanted to originally be a buyer for retail.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career, of course, doing retail like everybody else in high school.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: My first job was Ross.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was a fitting room.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Abercrombie and finish for me, which is embarrassing.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was a fitting room coordinator, okay.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: But then I went over to famous footwear and I worked there for quite a while.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was assistant manager, but then I was a traveling assistant manager.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, if I came in your store, you were doing something wrong.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to fix it or do something.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: You were about to put the rules down, yeah, to get you back on track.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did a lot with that.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I helped the marketing team whenever they came into town and the buying team, the marketing team, which was one of the buyers that would come, and I was always just like intrigued by the stuff that she did, how she did her job, that kind of stuff.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I really truly wanted to be a buyer.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um, life happens, and I think the I can't remember exactly where the headquarters for famous footwear, but um it was like in the middle of nowhere, and of course I was like, yeah, that's not gonna work for me.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had a kid at the time, and so of course I had to figure out ways to be able to pick her up from school or take her to school, one of those things, and so I had to change my career.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: But funny enough, before I went to famous footwear, I worked at IZOD out in the outland.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Izod, yeah, that's pulling back.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Remember Izod back in the day?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I got recruited to come to famous footwear because I was recruiting someone to take my job.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I got recruited by one of the portraits kids.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: No way.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, she's the she was the youngest one that was on the show.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she was the manager out in Folsom.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's kind of cool.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: If that's like your seven degrees of separation from somebody in Hollywood, that's that's pretty cool.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I always say I'm Kevin Bacon.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you so when you were kind of poking around at that stage of your career thinking like what is gonna feel stable?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna, you know, bring in what I need for my young child, and thinking about all these things we have to think about as moms or caretakers or whatever, when you entered into this kind of new space, what did that, what was that like as you were getting to know the ropes of what it felt like to work in government?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first shocker, and I think it's is for any person that steps into Gumbrit, especially in the state space, because in the state you only get paid once a month.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is that I actually had no idea.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: We only get paid once a month, and so coming from retail, and I was paid very well to come into the state and get paid once a month, and to get paid less than what I was making in retail, it was a big shocker.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you know, that eight to five schedule, you know, you going in at eight and getting off at five, there was nothing that could beat it, and the benefits.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was just it was really good to have for me, especially with the young child to be able to do that.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think we take for granted sometimes what it means to have some kind of stability.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when we've got the young ones, it's it already feels like life is in tumult at all times.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So have that be another factor that you're worrying about through those early years is um, yeah, it's uh it's it's fortunate, I think, to have that.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then to be able to, as the years go, you know, I've worked at different departments, um, uh quite a few different departments, but it's really one of those situations that I'm a real big learner, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like once I stop learning, then it's time to go.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Time to go.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to go.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the I'm like, no her, like, yeah, what's the shiny object over here?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's gotten boring.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the good thing with the state is um everything stays the same because we're all employed by the state of California, not the the individual department.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So nothing changes as long as I move within the state.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I find what I've done is not only promote it within, but I've also, you know, changed my position based on my current level and just transferred to another department if I thought something was intriguing or wanted to learn or something along those lines.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I would say that it really has benefited me working for the state for as long as I have and been able, I've gotten really good opportunities working with the state.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've out of 24 years coming up this year, um, coming up October, um, I think I've only had one bad, one bad experience.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Which we're gonna get to, by the way, because you've shared that with me.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you don't want to go there.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it is a really, you had such a beautiful way of talking about it that I think is really, really helpful for anybody that might be navigating a challenging situation like you went through.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: But before we go there, I'm curious.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like sometimes government can kind of feel like this, you know, this thing over there that if you haven't been civically engaged or you don't have like a full kind of awareness of how it works with and for you, or supposedly, we hope, for folks that might be interested in either early career or they're curious about the sector or they're looking to maybe pivot into government.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any suggestions for how to start thinking about that?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think first, you know, one of the things that I kind of do is look at the department's mission and vision statement, see if it aligns with you.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of the departments do different things.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: There are so and I understand, I understand what people are looking into this day, and it could be over, it could just be just over stimulating.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just looking like there's so much.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at the different positions that we have, looking at these generic um titles that we have.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it's look for the department that you may be interested in.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the mission and vision, look at what the actual duty statement says, see if it aligns with something that you want to do, and just go for it.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: It does take a minute, you know.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are on an old system, nothing as fast as the private sector is, but um, we have gotten a little bit better because you can apply online now, which is when I started, it was another thing.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even imagine.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you were walking it to the physical buildings to the building or putting it in the mail, it was you know, first class, double stamps, I don't know.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was heavy.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, carrying pigeons, that's been a while.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it it really is, it really is a good opportunity, especially if you're looking for something that you want to do to help California.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: One of the departments, it's no longer a department, but it used to be called Mr.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mib.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: What it did was um the health care for children.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so it used to be healthy families, and so I wanted to go work there so bad, and then it got consumed with another department, and then it went away.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to apply, apply, apply, apply, and then finally one of the people were like, Girl, when something comes up, I'm gonna email you.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: I will let you know.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: You start to get to know people because the world is so small, even though there's over 200,000 state employees, yeah, the world is small.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is such a small world, and especially Sacramento can already feel small at times, which you know, I think that's just a product of the way the community runs itself.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Big little city.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so let's talk about the moment.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: You had a moment that you had shared with me that I'd love for you to share a little bit more on, but what I loved that your reflection on it was that we are more than our job.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of your, you know, this idea that we are so consumed by our title and our old ways of thinking around, oh my gosh, if I have to make this shift, what will it do for my career?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, especially maybe not early, early, but even early to mid-career, you can really kind of convince yourself of some truths that aren't true.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they can become true, but it's not universal, and there are ways to navigate these situations.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I just loved that that was your perspective on it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're open to sharing a little bit about that experience, um, a couple of things one of the things like I just happen to have the opportunity to be related to so many people in town that I'm gonna do.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you're it's really small for you, actually.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's super small, super small, the world is small for me, very small.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I constantly am calling an aunt or an uncle or a cousin to have these conversations with just not just about career, but just about stuff and how I'm looking at life.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And is it am I going crazy, or does it sound like I'm going crazy?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that was one of the things that I did when I was dealing with this position.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was my first time being a manager, and there were so many things that happened in this position that I never experienced because it was my first time being a manager, that I just didn't um know even could happen as you know, being a first-time manager.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: It went from staff, their behavioral issues to um being somewhat sabotaged to someone wanting the job that didn't get the job.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was all encompassing.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this was my first date manager position.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's already a hard, it's such a hard.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like, I mean, maybe you had a different experience, but typically we don't put scaffolding around the person that's becoming the new manager.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's not a whole training or a whole thing about how you become a manager.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: They just, you're like, you're a manager now.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, good luck.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: That is exactly it.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: You get the training after you become a manager.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like being a manager that you get the training.
• 12:46
  unknown: Yes.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: You become one, and then you get the training, and like you got a year to take the training.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went in this position thinking, oh, I can do this.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And within months, I went to my aunt, was like, oh, you know what?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I like this.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, how do I navigate this?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole time I was in the position, I was doubting myself.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think it was anyone else other than myself and my ability.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was going to my aunt trying to figure out ways to better myself, not thinking there were other things happening, but really, what am I doing wrong?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: How do I fix adjust myself to make this a better situation for all of us?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I it was me, it had to be me.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then as we talked and talked and talked, you know, I came to a realization that I just couldn't do it anymore.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't be in the position.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was hurting me mentally.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had just sent my daughter off to school, and this is like my first experience as a manager, and I'm like, I'm depressed, I don't even get depressed.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I'm depressed eating in my car, like at lunchtime.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: How does this happen?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to leave after talking with my aunt and her telling me it'll be okay, but me telling myself, oh, this has set me back.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm gonna go back to being an associate governmental program analyst, and I'm just gonna set my career back years.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because while the state is great, um honestly, there's not a lot of black managers.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And to get to that position and then to have to say, I'm gonna reject myself on probation because this just isn't a good fit for me, yeah, was a hard pill to swallow.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't even imagine how like the the the gymnastics that you have to do mentally to get there has to be wild.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So after you know, sitting with it and deciding I'm just gonna go back, whatever happens, happens.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not for me.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I did it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it really played with me all the way up to making the decision.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then once I made the decision and decided to move back, the reflection was dang, I just did that.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: But two months later, I got another opportunity to do it somewhere else.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole time I'm doubting myself, yes.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: The reality was I shouldn't have been.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was actually because it was actually happening.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: The people were it was actually happening, and I was getting sabotaged, and all the things that I thought that I was doing wrong wasn't just me.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: There were other factors that were in the works, but at the same time, I didn't need to concern myself and wrapping my mind into this position.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Was I able to pay my bills?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: That should have been my concern.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, yes.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Was I able to send my daughter uh money, like what she was calling for every day at this point?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I shouldn't wrap my mind around being the boss, it was really how am I caring for the people that are around me?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because there were so many things that happened during that position.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of my staff ended up getting cancer.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the staff, you know, was having issues due to personal things, and all of these things were happening, and I still had to be um, I felt like I still needed to help these people and be responsible and say, Hey, what do you need and how can I help you?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: All the while my mind is in turmoil.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it all worked to the good, you know.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up getting a better position.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Had a little bit of PTSD in the beginning, though.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like oh can I do that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, why do you keep asking?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like just checking.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, they helped me build back up my confidence level that had been knocked down a little bit.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's such an interesting that as you might imagine in all of these conversations that I have, there's these themes and patterns that emerge, and one is around this, it must be me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's on me, or I must be the one.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the not trusting yourself, or like the learning how to trust yourself is something that you have to actively do.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that you just you're like, oh, I there's that gut feeling again.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna go that way.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm such a I don't care person, meaning not I don't care about people or I don't care about things, but I just don't care about you know being perceived a certain way.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I am such that person, but in that moment, it was gone.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think that was about?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was terrible.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think when that self-doubt creeps in, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, wait a second.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have this whole, this integrity, this foundation that I feel so clear about.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's like internal sabotage happening, it's typically done in a way that is insidious.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not so obvious.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that can also happen, but I think it is just enough to where you start to go, am I am I making this up?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Am I crazy?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is listening to ourselves, especially when you know that that has not been what you've experienced, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is a new thing to go, wait a second, this does not feel right.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: So to have that validated, as much as it sucks that you have to have it validated on the back end.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um what an what an interesting lesson, I imagine, and also listening to yourself and going, no, no, no, I knew something was off.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I knew it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So now I don't doubt myself.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: It ain't me.
• 19:05
  unknown: My own.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's something about knowing yourself, even knowing when you are part of the issue or the problem or whatever, but there's still a knowing in that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that you're just we're all of a sudden right all of the time, but it does mean your your gut is telling you also when you might be off course or where you might be falling or slipping into some patterns that aren't your favorite way to show up or whatever.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it takes time, it takes years, I think, to really get to that, but you have to be active about it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: It can't be something that's passive.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's a woman I met a woman recently who did a talk at Creative Mornings, and she's a psychic, and she has this incredible ability of tuning in and tapping into what's going on with people.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she was saying that too.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we all have these abilities within us.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, this is not about telling the future and me reading your palm and the whole thing.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is about that inner knowing, and it's like listening to the small little voice and actually hearing it and acting on it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, even in these small little moments throughout your day, because that's actually how you hone that muscle.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when the big stuff happens, you're ready for it.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're not totally out of tune with that piece of who you are.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think, and actually, within that situation, it helped me.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many through lines, I think, for me, when I think about how the things I've done in the past and how they help me in the future, I think that helped me run for office because I've never been in a situation really that tough.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at all.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So to have so many things happen in one year.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're building that muscle on overtime.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then to go into running for office, I was like, oh, I already had this muscle to go ahead and take in.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, some of these uh made-up stories that come my way, that has to be so curious about that, like how you navigate that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I feel like with anybody that is public-facing or external facing, that just comes with the territory now.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's no getting around it.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's if you have a point of view and if you have a face that is seen in a community online, whatever, you have to just expect that that will be part of the game.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious how you navigated that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't respond.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't true.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but I responded one time, and then I realized I mean, it's really tricky for me to respond, especially in that situation.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was really tricky because it ends up looking like um the big, mean, angry black woman is responding to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The sweet little so much of the time I just didn't respond.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, yes, I think there's something to not engaging externally.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I guess if it's like if you're like, I don't care because it's not the thing, right?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I think internally, was that a struggle for you at all?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the only time that I ever had a disappointment was from organizations like a couple of the black women organizations that are local.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when they wrote something about me, that's the only time that I actually was like, oh, wait a second.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of hurt.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I felt like, oh, maybe we could have got on a call, we could have talked about it, and then they would have understand my perspective.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, some people from different from those organizations I did get on a call with and understood my perspective, but that's the only time that I ever cared about um responding to anything.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because honestly, if you're making like I had somebody literally say something like, I'm her neighbor, and she's a bad person to something he said, and I was like, I've never seen you in my life.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and and I, you know, the funny thing about it is I work with our neighborhood association a lot, so it's like it was literally three of us that put on all the events for our neighborhood.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I would know you, I would know you.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not only would I know you, like you would have come to an event and you've come to nothing.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you were sitting here saying that you know me.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's wild though.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is an interesting, bizarre thing that I feel like we see more and more of now where people feel the need to tear folks down.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Comment, tear folks down.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what is the point?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are you getting out of that by being this you know, stranger that wants to like, you know, it's weird.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just weird.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's that's weird.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's where my my I don't care and be like, I don't even know you we're now yes, and I feel like what you're touching on a little bit maybe is that it's the difference between having someone that you genuinely care about giving you feedback or maybe offering a criticism or maybe not supporting you in the way you were hoping, versus a total stranger that you could give two shits about whether or not they yeah, like that, yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I that makes sense to me.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think what type one person said, Well, I guess there was some mailing that went out, and I did not do this mailing, but it was mailing that went out and was like, you should come to meetings before you say somebody else didn't come to meetings.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what meeting did I miss?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, my daughter's graduation from college.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: How dare you, how dare you have a life?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're not allowed to have a life, get out of here.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, these people are wild.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this was gonna be a segue I was interested in, which is you did run for Sacramento City Council a few years ago.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's plenty to unpack with the experience.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But what what got you interested in getting involved in the local side of politics after working at the state level for as long as you have?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is another interesting space for people where they're like, that feels way over here.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: That feels like I could never do that.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think people that are really interested in having an effect and an impact in their local communities, they're interested in some way, shape, or form of what this looks like.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, number one, what your interest was, and then two, you know, how how you started to open that door.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um, how I started basically, I used to be the commissioner for the area for in active transportation and how that kind of backdoored in.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: A friend of mine, she also lives in the neighborhood.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: We were just trying to get a crosswalk into Curtis Park.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because all the wayouts, now I gotta know which one the Certainville one.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So when the engineers come, they're like trying to line it up to Curtis Park coming over to the North City Farm Center.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, Why would you do that?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to go to the park.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: But really, that's originally that's how it started.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: She couldn't do it, so I ended up becoming commissioner for active transportation.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I also used to ride my bike to work, so I was a biker and walker and all that kind of stuff.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So crosswalks and biking, big deals to me.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's my entry into local politics, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So then when the redistricting happened for district five, um the person who was going to run before was redistrict out.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, Well, I know this community liked the back of my hand.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I was talking with staff for the previous council member, and they were like, Well, maybe you should run.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought about it, thought about it, and then I was like, Well, why not?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's let's see.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm really sometimes when I make decisions, it's like, just go.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's try.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done a lot working community-wise, and it's always been in the background because a lot of my friends work in nonprofit, and so I've always worked in their programs, volunteered.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: For years, I've worked on different projects that have made many headlines in Sacramento, but I've never been on the front side.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a very much a new thing for me.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And what drove me to it, which I didn't tell a lot of people about, but um, I'll tell you since we're talking, it's just you and me and my best friends.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: My mom had passed away probably the month or so before.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when we went to do my sister and I went to do her funeral, our whole old neighborhood, all the women that she went to school high school with and all that pretty much came together and helped us put that together.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so they brought the food, they brought the the tables, my cousin that's her age, brought the pop-up, and we had an ice repass in my backyard, and they literally did everything.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I coupled that with moving into my house now.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a year or so after someone ran into my fence and knocked it down.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And my neighbor across the street noticed it, and he called me, and I was at work, and he was like, Well, I'm gonna try to do something until you get home.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so he put like chicken wire up and just so, because I'm on a corner, just so no one could just walk in and just willy-nilly or whatever.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then I noticed the next day someone put a note on my door and was like, I hit your fence.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my number.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So then I text her and I was like, Oh, I was calling for quotes, I'll let you know what happens.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: But then the next day, she had already sent somebody over and they put up, they fixed that section of my fence.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so to me, community is super important because really I think about my life, and it's always been centered around community.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: My neighborhood that my mom grew up in, my grandmother, her sister, her other sister, and her brother lived in the same block.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool, you know.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up running cousins over there.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: My other side, which is in my district currently, golf course terrace.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: My grandmother lived in there, her and my uncle lived on the same street.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: The man across the street from my grandparents helped teach my daughter how to ride her bike, also helped teach me how to parallel park.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um that takes some patience.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and then Future helped my daughter, you know, learn how to ride a bike.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So every time she was outside, he was outside to make sure there was no cars going around going crazy.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was his homie.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he put air in her tire.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so just community has all I've always been just centered in community, and that was something that I could do.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could run for office to make sure that I was working for your community.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's really Sacramento is a bunch of little communities, it really is, rolled up into one.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really it for me.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: That I was gonna pull up my you know, tennis shoes, ended up being hokas because I ended up getting black fish guys trying to wear cute shoes.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, nope.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: I learned that lesson.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, my son literally asks me about my bunion every time I'm wearing sandals.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, listen.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hocus for the win, though.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we do a little hoke call out because those things have saved my butt.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like a fleet feet and was like, it's me.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, and honestly, you know, that's really why I didn't.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I caught in the race literally right before it was deadlined.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was out knocking on doors and running around.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, yeah, sometimes when you just make the decision and you don't have enough time to think about, it's actually better because you're like, yeah, all right, I just gotta go.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can't overthink this.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just, if I want the windows open for this short period of time, I gotta fly through it if I'm interested in even giving it a shot.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because literally as I was going through it, and you know, you have to raise money, and I'm not good with asking for money, but I got my handheld.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: People were really helpful and helping me get through that whole asking for money thing and helping me close.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to sign?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that kind of stuff.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the amount of money you have to raise to run a race is crazy.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people don't talk about that too much, right?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy, and really truly, I think we should talk about it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I also just read through Emerge, and this was one of the things that I think I was talking with with some of the people in Emerge is one we have to talk about is money.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you are out, because I asked my dad all the time for you know to do stuff, and so when I was running and I needed to raise, I think I needed like two more thousand dollars, and so I'm going around asking for money, and then I tell my dad, I was like, I need$500 more dollars.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad is a jokester like myself, so he was like, I'm gonna give you$500 so you can lose, you know.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that's his joke, right?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but he gives me the money, of course.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was just you know, running around, and he's like, he is also trying to get me money too.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he's like, I'm asking everybody, and they just don't chip in.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I said, because they don't realize how much it takes the money and cost to run race.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: For folks that don't know what Emerge is, share a little bit.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, Emerge is an organization that helps women run for office.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: It pretty much trains them, gives them an opportunity, it gives you a baseline of what you need to know in order to run for office.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I did it after the fact.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I probably could have done it before, but I did it after the fact.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say is that for people who really truly want to get into that um into that arena, even if you just want to be like a campaign manager or something.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: That gives you a good insight, I'm sure.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it gives you a good insight, you know, to what what to expect for running for office.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there of course everything sometimes could be lacking, because in this new world we live in, sure, um, um, there's definitely some changes that are out there when it comes to the rules, because some people don't follow the rules.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then also for a black woman, there's just there is, you know, uh hate to talk about it, but there is racism still, you know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: I got a little bit on the campaign trail.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I I'm one of those expect it, so I just want you to make it funny.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if it ain't funny, then you waste your time.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we so we talked about that because I was sharing how I had read that Sacramento, which is where we are, has only ever seen a majority women's city council once, and that was in 1989, which is come on, Sacramento.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you had won, you would have been only the third elected black councilwoman in Sacramento.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, obviously that's saying a lot about a lot.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um there were only two elected, uh, one appointed, two elected.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually had the opportunity, and I think this was it, it was an amazing opportunity for me.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Lauren Hammond was elected, and I was able to sit with her.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: She was elected for this district.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to talk with her.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: She actually got me involved with National Women's Political Caucus.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, which the only reason why I got involved is because of her.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it takes that person, though, you know.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's gonna show you the way a little bit.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: She unexpectedly passed last year, but I'm still working with them, doing things whenever they call me because of her.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: They did not endorse me though.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, come on.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Lori did, Lori did, but the organization did.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm one of those people that I don't care who you affiliated or who you endorsed, just be honest about things and I and I'll work with you because really the whole goal for me was community, anyways.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: So any if I can make the community better in any type of way and work with anybody as long as they are authentically wanting to work for community, then I I definitely want to be a part of it.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: You shared, um, I was going to ask you, but then you shared before I even asked you when we were chatting earlier, what were some of the more surprising things that happened while you were on the campaign trail.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And once again, sadly not surprising some of what you were, you know, some of these conversations you were having.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's an important thing to share.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, so folks are reminded that these things are still happening frequently in our own communities, and the fact that you were able to stay in conversation with this person and actually try to have discourse with someone that you could have said, you know what, screw off, I'm not gonna stand here and have this conversation.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: So are you are you willing to share a little bit about that?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I knocked on this man's door, and actually in my own neighborhood that my grandmother lived in, um, he asked me what I could do for a white man.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was sat there.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was funny in my head.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: But he didn't think it was funny, I'm sure.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that no, he didn't think it was funny, but in my head, I'm like, what?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: What am I gonna do?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't know, but really, it was really truly, I could tell you you can tell when people are truly feeling a certain way, or if they want to be rude to you, or if they actually just want to have a conversation.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, when he said that to me, I felt that it was really a conversation that he wanted to have, and nobody took the time to listen to him.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he had no idea how to approach the conversation in a way, like it was correct.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was the only way he knew how to approach the conversation.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that was due to the echo chamber that he was in with the type of news that he consumed.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, we ended up having a really good conversation.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed with him a lot longer than I would say in a door, mainly because um, instead of attacking him or going at him with his question, I asked him questions back.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I wanted to know really where that stemmed from and if this this what I could do for him, what was that really about?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he kind of went on the tangent of, you know, naming organizations that he felt didn't do the black community good service.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then I then took it back to him and say, hey, some of these organizations don't do anybody good service.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And pretend like they do, or position themselves that they do.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then some of them, it's not not intentional, it's just how it ends up happening.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so after our conversation, he um ended up telling me that he was gonna vote for me.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which is I mean, that's amazing.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Which yeah, which is amazing, but it was just really, I think it was one of the wildest openings, but to me, it was a really good conversation because I knew that he was really uh wanting to know what his place was in this.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, what his place was in the community.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think in so many ways, everyone is looking for that in some way, shape, or form.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it if we're not willing to sit in the discomfort, I'm not saying if somebody is being outwardly, you know, awful to you, of course, we should not, we need to have our boundaries and keep ourselves safe, but to be in this kind of discourse, I think is it's so rare now to be willing to ask follow-up questions instead of meeting them with the same energy or you know, yeah, choosing to walk away is I think more of the the default response.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how I think that's how change actually happens is in these one-on-one conversations.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see it happening in these major systemic ways.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see it happening in these ways that we would hope our systems would support.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so, if if not that, then I do think that ability to be in those uncomfortable conversations is so important.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it also requires, I mean, he could have not been the type that was willing to answer, you know, vulnerably with you, right?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think you knowing that and seeing that and just saying, wait, this is an opportunity for me to engage, that's a skill that I don't think you know, like I don't know that I have that.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would have been like, you know, I grew up in Sacramento around both military bases, um, around just a bunch of different people.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell when it's intentional, yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell when someone means me harm.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell when someone is just curious or has a question.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in this space, um, and I it's funny because I had a friend with me and she was like, I would have walked away.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: I gave her leave.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, You proved to be a politician that day.
• 41:09
  unknown: That's right.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're earning those trades.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I'm all in.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, but really, I mean, I said, but she was like, no, I can tell that he how he started the conversation isn't really where he wanted to go.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: But she's like, I would have been so annoyed that I walked away.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, but we need that vote.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, that's right.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go for it.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and we don't have those tools, I think, really, to to ask questions in a way that are actually trying to get to what we're where we're going, right?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's you're we're all in an echo chamber of some kind.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so what we do is use the language that we have, you know.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: That we know.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so that does not make it okay.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that to be able to pull somebody on a journey versus just saying, well, then you stay there and you're ignorant bullshit, that that's a big, that's a big thing.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think, and you know, I know you don't ask you didn't ask this, but I think that's too why, uh, to get on my little soapbox, it's very important that we look at history when we're talking about politics, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: If we know history and we know the full account of history, like you know, black history, American history, then we could really understand where we meet.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't teach it, yeah, and we don't all play from the same understanding pool, right?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I can understand why um someone doesn't want to give reparations if they don't understand the full totality of what slavery did because we don't talk about it.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I can I can understand if you just think, well, Rosa Parks was tired that day.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's why she didn't want to get up and go to the back of the box.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's how we used to teach it.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not funny, but it's so ridiculous.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not only do we not teach it, we teach that we actively teach against the things that matter, which is so wild.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Effort.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that is why you know I try and I try my best um to actually try to be patient and really talk to people um to understand where they're coming from before I react.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um now there's times where you can.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a time and a place for a reaction.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be clear.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I hear what you're saying.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's how do you how do you recognize those moments where there might be an opportunity to be in conversation?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to end with the one question that I ask everyone because so much of this to me is about what we're building today, is in service of where we hope to be in the future, and a lot of that is around legacy and what what we think legacy means to us.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so What does legacy what does building a legacy mean for you?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, the funny thing is I never think about building a legacy because with my kid, who's now 27, so she's not a kid, um, I always mess with her and saying, I'm just looking for a return on my investment.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: So she was my investment.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which I guess is a legacy.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: When are you expecting that return?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I get it all.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's last year we went to Renaissance.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: This year we went to Cowboy Carter.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: That I'm looking for tangible returns on my investment.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I look at it like that.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I look at did I provide a space for my child to be able to be the storyteller of others that were in my family?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so my legacy is that her first book is coming out October 14th.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: So cool.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she tells a story about a song my grandfather continuously sung to all the kids when um we were all little.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I think legacy is just never ending.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so as long as that return on my investment keeps coming for, keeps coming, that that's all I look for.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting because when I was thinking about you and our conversation, and I thought of this question, I I thought of your daughter because I thought, and I don't know your daughter, but I I know what you've shared about your daughter and your pride in what she's building for herself and what it looks like for her to be owning the things that bring her joy and building a life.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't imagine anything more joyful than watching your child build their own legacy in real time.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And how cool is that that you get to witness her kind of growing up in this way and the storytelling piece.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is not everyone continues to allow themselves to tap into these pieces of themselves that make them so unique and special.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have to send us some way of tracking the link so that we'll know when the book comes out so folks can find it.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um it brings me to that Hamilton, this the musical, that um Who Will Tell My Story.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that I think that's legacy.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think she'll tell my story, she'll tell my grandfather's stories, she'll tell my grandmother's, my mother's, my dad's.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: So as long as there is somebody from my world that will continue to tell our stories, I don't really need to build a legacy because it's building oneself.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it, I love it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know you have busy schedules, so I just am really grateful that you were able to take out a little time.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing your wisdom.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing your story.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know folks are gonna get a lot out of um you sharing your experience, so I just really appreciate it.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you soon.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, see ya.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.