Transcript

Sharri | 21 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Why on Sky News.
0:03
Speaker 2: This is Sharry, Thanks Andrew Good evening. Tonight. I'll take
0:09
Speaker 2: you moment by moment into how Bondi victim Petermar's camera
0:13
Speaker 2: was allegedly stolen and my personal conversations with the alleged thief,
0:18
Speaker 2: Danny Ridley. You won't get this story anywhere here, anywhere else.
0:22
Speaker 2: That's in a moment. Plus, the budget blowback continues to grow.
0:26
Speaker 2: Will this be the end of the Albaneezy government. I'll
0:29
Speaker 2: discuss with Paul Kelly and Michael Stutchbury soon, and the
0:34
Speaker 2: Coalition has asked the Royal Commission to set up hearings
0:38
Speaker 2: into the nation's broadcasters, also the art sector. That exclusive
0:42
Speaker 2: coming up and Sarah Henderson will be on the show.
0:46
Speaker 2: But first tonight, a photographer working at the Kannaka Festival
0:50
Speaker 2: at Bondi Beach has been charged with stealing victim Petermar's
0:55
Speaker 2: camera and pawning it for eight hundred dollars. Now I've
0:59
Speaker 2: interviewed the person charged with these despicable allegations for my
1:03
Speaker 2: book and behind the scenes for our documentary, so I'm
1:07
Speaker 2: going to tell you about him tonight. Now. As I
1:10
Speaker 2: first reported earlier today, his name is Danny Ridley. He's
1:14
Speaker 2: been charged with larceny, disposing of stolen property, furnishing false
1:19
Speaker 2: information to a licensee, possessing or using a prohibited weapon
1:23
Speaker 2: without a permit, and possessing and supplying drugs. And here
1:28
Speaker 2: is the dramatic moment. He was arrested at a Marryong
1:32
Speaker 2: home in Sydney's West yesterday morning. Police located and seized
1:37
Speaker 2: a camera, handcuffs and electronic devices. Police alleged they also
1:42
Speaker 2: seized a small amount of white crystal powder and further
1:45
Speaker 2: electronics in a car. But how did this happen? Well,
1:50
Speaker 2: let's go through it. Peter Maher and Danny Ridley were
1:53
Speaker 2: both photographers at the Bondai Kunnecker by the Sea event.
1:57
Speaker 2: They were working separately. Peter Maher was working for a
2:01
Speaker 2: company called Tagnets that laminated family portraits onto magnets as
2:07
Speaker 2: a keepsake. As explained in our documentary, Emir Glazer ran
2:14
Speaker 2: a photo stall at the Kunneker event that day. His photographer,
2:20
Speaker 2: Peter Maer was tragically also killed.
2:26
Speaker 3: He was very humble person, very patient with all the
2:32
Speaker 3: people that he took photos off. He was really kind,
2:37
Speaker 3: so he was walking around everyone and just looking for
2:40
Speaker 3: best moments to capture.
2:44
Speaker 2: Now, Peter's photographs from the festival have been crucial in
2:49
Speaker 2: showing what those at the event were doing in the
2:52
Speaker 2: final moments before the shooting. Peter Maher had spent his
2:58
Speaker 2: life as a police detective From beyond the Grave, Peter's
3:03
Speaker 2: time stamped photographs would help piece together the final minutes
3:08
Speaker 2: before the massacre. You can see that he'd moved over
3:11
Speaker 2: to the area where the bubbles were. There's Matilda.
3:21
Speaker 3: For some reason, Peter kept taking for this of Mathilda.
3:31
Speaker 3: Felt like Peter knew it's happening, and he just kept
3:35
Speaker 3: capturing for this of Mathilda, and they both were killed
3:39
Speaker 3: a few minutes after that moment.
3:44
Speaker 2: Now, every twenty minutes or so, Peter mar would hand
3:48
Speaker 2: his memory card to company owner Amir Glazer, who was
3:51
Speaker 2: just speaking then, and Emir would then download them onto
3:54
Speaker 2: his laptop and print them out for Fridge Magnets. Now
3:58
Speaker 2: piecing together the timeline of this, I discovered that the
4:01
Speaker 2: last time Peter Maher handed his card over to Ema
4:05
Speaker 2: was at six point thirty six PM. The shooting began
4:08
Speaker 2: at six point forty two pm, so it meant the
4:12
Speaker 2: final six minutes of Peter's photographs were missing, including the
4:17
Speaker 2: last photograph he ever took. Now, Peter's wife, Virginia mar
4:21
Speaker 2: and Emir have been trying so hard over the past
4:25
Speaker 2: six months to recover his camera, which disappeared after the attack.
4:31
Speaker 2: They initially thought police had it, but then they were
4:33
Speaker 2: told that it wasn't in the police possession, and they've
4:36
Speaker 2: been urging police to analyze the footage to see if
4:40
Speaker 2: they can work out what happened to Peter's camera. It
4:43
Speaker 2: just meant so much to them now. Meanwhile, I was
4:47
Speaker 2: put in touch with Danny Ridley separately through a bizarre
4:51
Speaker 2: set of coincidences too long to go into now, and
4:56
Speaker 2: I sat down with him and interviewed him, and it
4:59
Speaker 2: turns out that rid he had been directly employed as
5:01
Speaker 2: a photographer by Kabad of Bondai. He's not Jewish, but
5:06
Speaker 2: he was hired by Rabbi Ellie Schlanger for occasional events
5:10
Speaker 2: like this one. Now, Danny Ridley told me that he'd
5:14
Speaker 2: entirely forgotten the Kinnecker event was on that Sunday, but
5:17
Speaker 2: he happened to be in Bondi with his friends, saw
5:20
Speaker 2: there was a festival and thought it's Kinneher. He ran
5:24
Speaker 2: to his car to get his camera equipment, which happened
5:26
Speaker 2: to be in his boot. Now this is all research
5:29
Speaker 2: I've done for my book. So Danny Ridley was then
5:32
Speaker 2: twelve minutes late to the Kannaker Festival. As he walked in,
5:36
Speaker 2: he saw Rabbi Ellie Schlanger, who looked at his watch
5:40
Speaker 2: and then looked at Danny and then looked back at
5:41
Speaker 2: his watch. And this is an account of the conversation
5:44
Speaker 2: given to me by Danny Ridley in April this year.
5:48
Speaker 2: So Ellie said to him sometimes shit happens. Hey, because
5:53
Speaker 2: he was late. Ridley was laughing and said, sometimes it
5:57
Speaker 2: just happens, Ellie. Ellie said, go get in there and
6:00
Speaker 2: have fun. And then as Ridley was walking away, Ellie
6:04
Speaker 2: called out, Dan, you and I need to hang out more,
6:08
Speaker 2: and not just while you're working for me. And Ridley said,
6:12
Speaker 2: I'd really love that. So this and all what I'm
6:16
Speaker 2: about to tell you emerged during the research for the book.
6:20
Speaker 2: At about six forty pm, Danny Ridley went outside the
6:24
Speaker 2: festival to get a drone from his car. He was
6:27
Speaker 2: planning to use the drone to take aerial images of
6:30
Speaker 2: the candle lighting of the Manora. Just as he'd left
6:35
Speaker 2: the festival and passed the infamous bridge, the shooting began.
6:39
Speaker 2: Danny Ridley took cover behind a parking meter and then
6:43
Speaker 2: he moved to a large shrub. He started filming on
6:47
Speaker 2: his mobile phone, which is all he had with him.
6:50
Speaker 2: After a few minutes, he noticed police detective Caesar Barutza
6:55
Speaker 2: come to his right about two meters away behind a tree.
7:00
Speaker 2: And this is the incredible vision that he took of Caesar.
7:05
Speaker 2: Hopefully we're going to show that now, yes, that Danny
7:08
Speaker 2: gave me for our documentary. It's truly incredible footage. The
7:14
Speaker 2: only footage really of Caesar Baratza from behind the tree.
7:20
Speaker 2: He also took some footage of the shooters, which he
7:23
Speaker 2: told me that he sold to the BBC in the
7:25
Speaker 2: UK for two thousand dollars. I asked Ridley what he
7:30
Speaker 2: did when the shooting was over. He told me he
7:33
Speaker 2: didn't take any more photographs because there were so many
7:35
Speaker 2: people who needed help, and he said he ran in
7:39
Speaker 2: to help the wounded, and video footage from the day
7:43
Speaker 2: confirms this. You can see him here. It's heavily blurred
7:47
Speaker 2: of cost, but you can see him here and he
7:49
Speaker 2: was actually helping Yakov Leverton, who had been shot and
7:55
Speaker 2: later died. You could also see Danny Ridley walking at
8:01
Speaker 2: the Kadiker festival there, and that's what's so incredibly confusing
8:08
Speaker 2: about this whole event, about these charges. Ridley sent me
8:12
Speaker 2: emotional messages after our documentary. He cried when I met
8:16
Speaker 2: him in person because he was so traumatized from Bondai.
8:20
Speaker 2: He seemed to genuinely care for our Jewish community, and
8:25
Speaker 2: yet it's now alleged that all the while he had
8:29
Speaker 2: committed this despicable act of stealing a camera from a
8:35
Speaker 2: dead man. You can't get lower than that. It's yet
8:41
Speaker 2: another lesson, another reminder that people may not always be
8:45
Speaker 2: what they seem. I always take people at face value
8:49
Speaker 2: and imagine they're good and honorable, but unfortunately, the police
8:54
Speaker 2: allegation suggests that there may be people around us capable
8:57
Speaker 2: of immoral, nefarious, and profound acts of cruelty. Now I've
9:05
Speaker 2: spend an enormous amount of time watching vision and piecing
9:09
Speaker 2: together what happened at the festival, who was killed at
9:13
Speaker 2: what time, in what order, and who they were with.
9:17
Speaker 2: And I know that Peter was taking a photograph when
9:19
Speaker 2: he was killed. I know who he was taking a
9:21
Speaker 2: photograph of, and I know that he had his camera
9:24
Speaker 2: on him. A warning, I'm about to show you a
9:27
Speaker 2: distressing photograph of Peter's body moments after he was shot.
9:32
Speaker 2: It will be blurred, but why I'm showing it to
9:35
Speaker 2: you is because it shows that he fell half on
9:38
Speaker 2: top of his camera. You can see his camera here,
9:42
Speaker 2: so heavily blurred, but that is Peter's T shirt in
9:46
Speaker 2: the white there, and you can see he's lying on
9:49
Speaker 2: his camera. Then when someone started doing CPR and Peter
9:55
Speaker 2: to try revive him, the camera was moved to the
9:58
Speaker 2: side and you can see that here. Again it's very
10:02
Speaker 2: heavily blurred, but there was someone doing CPR on Peter
10:07
Speaker 2: who was in the white shirt, and so the camera
10:09
Speaker 2: was just pushed a little bit to the side. After
10:13
Speaker 2: that moment it went missing. Virginia Ma understandably was really
10:19
Speaker 2: upset about this, and she made a desperate plea for
10:22
Speaker 2: the missing camera to be returned in March this year.
10:26
Speaker 2: Here's what she wrote on social media. She said, as
10:29
Speaker 2: you all know, my husband Peter's life was tragically taken
10:32
Speaker 2: at Bondai on December fourteenth. It is now apparent that
10:36
Speaker 2: someone other than a known authority picked up his camera
10:39
Speaker 2: from Archer Park. I would very much like to have
10:42
Speaker 2: his camera returned. If you know anything about the Canon
10:45
Speaker 2: camera as shown in these images, I'd love to hear
10:48
Speaker 2: from you. Thank you.
10:51
Speaker 1: Now.
10:52
Speaker 2: It just so happened that I spoke again with Virginia
10:55
Speaker 2: earlier this week as I was doing the final fact
10:58
Speaker 2: checks for my book and the chapter own her and Peter.
11:01
Speaker 2: And then just on Tuesday this week, she again told
11:04
Speaker 2: me there was no news of the camera, but she
11:06
Speaker 2: remained hopeful. Then just a day later, that dramatic arrest
11:13
Speaker 2: by police of Danny Ridley. In a statement, police say
11:18
Speaker 2: police will allege the man was a photographer at the
11:20
Speaker 2: Kunneker event who stole the deceased sixty one year old's
11:24
Speaker 2: camera equipment before pawning it days later. And now I
11:29
Speaker 2: can reveal incredible news that police have been able to
11:32
Speaker 2: retrieve not only the camera but the memory card, and
11:37
Speaker 2: Virginia expects to have those images tomorrow returned to her.
11:42
Speaker 2: And here she was welcoming this news.
11:46
Speaker 4: I will have a look at those images and probably
11:49
Speaker 4: spend a bit of quiet reflection in the fact that
11:52
Speaker 4: this was the last thing that his mind's eron his
11:55
Speaker 4: profession captured. Tomorrow, when I get those images back, it'll
11:58
Speaker 4: be about reflection and and having my little quiet moment
12:02
Speaker 4: to think of him and what he was doing when
12:05
Speaker 4: he was doing what he loved. We've managed to recover
12:10
Speaker 4: everything but Peter's lens, which was onsold. So I'm gratified
12:14
Speaker 4: by that process and was reassured and had complete faith
12:18
Speaker 4: in it.
12:20
Speaker 2: It's a miracle that Peter's photographs have survived after all
12:25
Speaker 2: this time, six months later, and hopefully it'll be some
12:29
Speaker 2: form of closure Virginia, for Virginia to finally know her
12:34
Speaker 2: husband's final moments before he was killed, the happy faces
12:38
Speaker 2: he captured, the families he had conversations with, the meaningful
12:43
Speaker 2: connections he made. Peter was a wonderful man and it's
12:48
Speaker 2: a tragedy his life was lost, along with so many
12:52
Speaker 2: at BONDEI Now the Coalition has formally asked the Royal Commissioner,
13:02
Speaker 2: Virginia Bell, to set up a block of hearings into
13:05
Speaker 2: Australia's arts institutions and public broadcasters. This is a breaking
13:11
Speaker 2: story I am bringing to you now. In a statement,
13:14
Speaker 2: Shadow Attorney General Michaulia Cash and Shadow Communications Minister Sarah
13:18
Speaker 2: Henderson said that cultural institutions and broadcasters like the ABC
13:24
Speaker 2: shape public debate and influence cultural norms. They say the
13:29
Speaker 2: ABC has faced sustained criticism over public concern over aspects
13:34
Speaker 2: of its Middle East coverage, its complaints handling processes, and
13:38
Speaker 2: broader editorial approach including evidence and submissions. Now before the
13:43
Speaker 2: Royal Commission, alleging that its coverage has contributed to social
13:47
Speaker 2: division and diminished confidence among sections of the Jewish community.
13:52
Speaker 2: They say that this proposed hearing block should examine governance settings,
13:56
Speaker 2: complaints processes, funding decisions, editorial se standards, cultural leadership and
14:02
Speaker 2: whether publicly funded institutions have appropriate safeguards to identify and
14:07
Speaker 2: address antisemitism. And as I mentioned, Sarah Henderson will join
14:11
Speaker 2: me on the show a bit later, but as you know,
14:14
Speaker 2: this comes after the ABCN SBS refuse to adopt the
14:17
Speaker 2: IRA definition of antisemitism used by some forty seven countries
14:21
Speaker 2: around the world, including Australia. Now, I think the Royal
14:26
Speaker 2: Commission should seriously consider this formal request from the Coalition,
14:32
Speaker 2: which would no doubt be supported by many Jewish groups
14:37
Speaker 2: because the normalization of offensive rhetoric in cultural bodies has
14:41
Speaker 2: been a disgrace, and there's no more perfect example of
14:45
Speaker 2: that than a writer who said Zionists do not deserve
14:49
Speaker 2: cultural safety. She's just been nominated for the nation's top
14:53
Speaker 2: book prize. She also posted and only five months later
14:58
Speaker 2: removed in of a Palestinian paratrooper as her Facebook profile
15:04
Speaker 2: just one day after the Hamas slaughter of one thousand,
15:07
Speaker 2: two hundred Israeli's on October seven. And now Randa abdel
15:13
Speaker 2: Fhatarh is on the long list for the Miles Franklin
15:16
Speaker 2: Literary Award. This is the ultimate example of the literary
15:22
Speaker 2: elite ignoring deeper fense caused to Jews, and meanwhile, Jews
15:30
Speaker 2: who support Israel are excluded from literary and journalism awards
15:35
Speaker 2: and writers festivals. The Royal Commission should absolutely hold a
15:41
Speaker 2: block of hearings into the plethora of issues just like this. Well,
15:49
Speaker 2: let's turn now to the backlash against the federal budget,
15:52
Speaker 2: and joining me is The Australian's Editor at Large, Paul Kelly. Paul,
15:56
Speaker 2: good evening, and thank you for being here.
15:58
Speaker 1: Very good to be with you, Shary.
16:00
Speaker 2: Now to start, you wrote an exceptional column about the
16:04
Speaker 2: federal budget this week. Now to start with, This was
16:08
Speaker 2: Albanisi deliberately handing down what he considers to be a
16:13
Speaker 2: bold Labor budget that you argue is a radical shift
16:17
Speaker 2: to the left.
16:18
Speaker 1: I think the.
16:19
Speaker 5: Budget is really a statement of Labor belief or Labor conviction,
16:23
Speaker 5: and it's also an insight into the degree of Labour's
16:26
Speaker 5: political confidence or hubris. Now the Treasurer Jim Chalmer said
16:32
Speaker 5: it was Labour's most important and ambitious budget. I think
16:35
Speaker 5: that's right. What the Prime Minister did was the Prime
16:38
Speaker 5: Minister decided that at this point in the second term,
16:41
Speaker 5: there was no point defending the status quo, that politics
16:45
Speaker 5: was moving quickly. But what Labor had to do was
16:48
Speaker 5: it had to bring down a policy and a budget
16:52
Speaker 5: that shifted course, that shifted direction, that set the terms
16:56
Speaker 5: of the debate for the next election. And that ended
16:59
Speaker 5: up being a budget that increased the capital gains tax
17:05
Speaker 5: of the altered negative gearing, that increased taxation on assets,
17:09
Speaker 5: that provided very little personal income tax relief. Now, this
17:14
Speaker 5: was a budget of redistribution. It was very much a
17:17
Speaker 5: conviction budget on the part of the Labor Party. I
17:20
Speaker 5: think it's true to say that the government, both the
17:24
Speaker 5: Prime Minister and the treasurer misjudged the reaction we've seen
17:28
Speaker 5: over the course of the last ten days. But I
17:31
Speaker 5: think the really important thing is they were prepared to
17:34
Speaker 5: break election promises because they felt they could carry the
17:38
Speaker 5: day with this budget, and they felt at the end
17:40
Speaker 5: of the day their strength against the weakness of a
17:44
Speaker 5: broken coalition would prevail.
17:47
Speaker 2: So they see it as this ambitious labor budget, a
17:51
Speaker 2: conviction budget. But that's utterly flawed, isn't it.
17:56
Speaker 5: Well, the interesting thing we've now got is we've now
17:58
Speaker 5: got a really significant post difference between both sides because
18:02
Speaker 5: the new Liberal leader, Angus Taylor, went in very hard.
18:06
Speaker 5: He knew that the Liberal Party was fighting for survival
18:10
Speaker 5: that what he had to do was to bring down
18:12
Speaker 5: a very very bold reply to the budget. He did
18:16
Speaker 5: that in the form of tax indexation and various other
18:19
Speaker 5: measures in relation to welfare, in relation to immigration, and
18:24
Speaker 5: so essentially what we've now got, which I think in
18:27
Speaker 5: many ways is a very good thing. We've got a
18:29
Speaker 5: contest between the Albanese government and the Liberal Party led
18:34
Speaker 5: by Angus Taylor, about genuine and very substantial policy differences,
18:39
Speaker 5: what I've called a contest of conviction.
18:42
Speaker 2: Now Taylor's plan to index tax thresholds against inflation. That
18:48
Speaker 2: will massively reduce tax revenue. Of course, Labour's never going
18:53
Speaker 2: to support that. They need increased tax revenue for their
18:57
Speaker 2: massive spending agenda.
18:59
Speaker 5: What we see now is the end of me too politics. Essentially,
19:03
Speaker 5: what we're seeing is both the government and the opposition
19:07
Speaker 5: developing very different tax and economic policies. So essentially, if
19:11
Speaker 5: we look at labor labors increasing taxes on assets, increasing
19:15
Speaker 5: taxes on capital gains, on negative gearing, and it will
19:19
Speaker 5: never accept our personal income tax indexation. What we see
19:25
Speaker 5: from the opposition is rejection of the taxes on assets.
19:29
Speaker 5: The opposition's position is, no, we need to give tax
19:33
Speaker 5: breaks for investment. The opposition is not interested in repealing
19:37
Speaker 5: the Howard government fifty percent discount for capital gains tax
19:43
Speaker 5: and of course it's gone on tax indexation.
19:45
Speaker 1: Now, this is a radical idea.
19:47
Speaker 5: What it means is that income earners don't automatically move
19:51
Speaker 5: into the next tax bracket, so you transfer a great
19:56
Speaker 5: amount of revenue from the government from the politicians back
20:00
Speaker 5: to the people.
20:01
Speaker 1: This limits the.
20:03
Speaker 5: Discretionary capacity of governments. It makes it harder to achieve
20:08
Speaker 5: a reduction in the budget deficit. For example. But it
20:12
Speaker 5: also means that big government is undermined. So this is
20:16
Speaker 5: an attack on big government.
20:18
Speaker 1: By the Liberal Party. It's a much.
20:21
Speaker 5: More disciplined, tighter fiscal policy.
20:24
Speaker 2: I mean the level of additional taxation as a result
20:29
Speaker 2: of the Albanezy government budget, according to the Treasury himself
20:32
Speaker 2: in the ABC interview, is eighty billion dollars over the
20:35
Speaker 2: next decade. That's just an extraordinary admission, isn't it.
20:41
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's an underestimate as well. I mean
20:44
Speaker 5: what the Treasurer has said is if we take the
20:46
Speaker 5: next decade we have the impact of these tax changes,
20:51
Speaker 5: the total impact of the new taxes on assets is
20:54
Speaker 5: going to be an extra eighty billion. So there's an
20:57
Speaker 5: immediate question here what happens to ordinary taxpayers? What happens
21:03
Speaker 5: to personal income tax relief? Now there is a minor
21:06
Speaker 5: adjustment here from the government. This is this extra two
21:09
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty dollars that people get that will be
21:12
Speaker 5: eaten up very quickly by people moving into higher tax brackets.
21:17
Speaker 5: And we know that the government won't introduce income tax indexation.
21:23
Speaker 5: It will, I'm almost certain, introduced tax cuts in the
21:29
Speaker 5: budget next year, so we'll have a competition between tax policies,
21:34
Speaker 5: but I think the opposition with tax indexation will be
21:37
Speaker 5: in a stronger position in terms of offering tax relief.
21:40
Speaker 2: As such, I just want to go to this line
21:43
Speaker 2: that you wrote in your column this week that I
21:46
Speaker 2: think really sums up what the backlash that the government's
21:51
Speaker 2: dealing with. You said that Albinizi and Charmers say this
21:53
Speaker 2: is a fair tax model, yet it seems most fair
21:57
Speaker 2: to the government via extra revenue.
22:00
Speaker 5: Well, it's certainly most feared of the government. I mean,
22:02
Speaker 5: the government is the big winner in this particular budget.
22:07
Speaker 5: You know, it's a winner to an extraordinary extent. And
22:12
Speaker 5: essentially what we've got here is we've got a budget
22:16
Speaker 5: which doesn't do a lot for the economy because essentially
22:21
Speaker 5: growth is not impressive. In terms of the growth outlook,
22:25
Speaker 5: We've still got deficits for another decade. We've still got
22:29
Speaker 5: very high levels of government spending. Despite the government's announcements
22:33
Speaker 5: about productivity, the productivity outlook is not good, which means
22:37
Speaker 5: they'll be ongoing pressure on living standards, and we know
22:41
Speaker 5: that inflation is going up. So when we look at
22:44
Speaker 5: the budget in terms of its impact on the economy,
22:47
Speaker 5: then I think the government doesn't have a strong case
22:50
Speaker 5: to make when we look at the budget in political terms, well,
22:54
Speaker 5: it's certainly not effective because it's going to impose significant
22:58
Speaker 5: taxes on assets. We bear in mind that many income
23:01
Speaker 5: earners have got assets as well, and it doesn't deliver
23:04
Speaker 5: much for income earners.
23:05
Speaker 1: So both economically.
23:07
Speaker 5: And politically, I think there are very strong grounds for
23:11
Speaker 5: criticizing the budget. The interesting thing will be the political reaction,
23:16
Speaker 5: whether the opposition can get significant traction on this or
23:20
Speaker 5: whether one nation is the big political winner.
23:24
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. Even though there's been undoubtedly an
23:27
Speaker 2: enormous backlash, perhaps bigger backlash to this budget than any
23:31
Speaker 2: other we can remember, or perhaps at least since twenty fourteen,
23:35
Speaker 2: but Alban Easy would be looking at the News poll
23:39
Speaker 2: and the primary vote stayed the same. He didn't even
23:42
Speaker 2: have a drop in primary. He only had a fall
23:44
Speaker 2: in the preferred prime minister rating.
23:47
Speaker 5: Sheret there's a huge paradox about this budget. I mean,
23:50
Speaker 5: there's no doubt that there's a very substantial reaction against
23:54
Speaker 5: the budget, and very substantial backlash that will come through
23:59
Speaker 5: the polls, coming through some of the polls now, so
24:02
Speaker 5: we've got that on the one hand, Yet on the
24:04
Speaker 5: other hand, who's the winner. And if we look at
24:07
Speaker 5: who's the winner, then it's One Nation Because the one
24:09
Speaker 5: nation vote marginally has gone up, the one nation vote
24:13
Speaker 5: is still ahead of the coalition vote, still ahead of
24:15
Speaker 5: the Liberal Party vote. So the fundamental question for politics
24:20
Speaker 5: is whether the criticism of the Albanesi government over the
24:23
Speaker 5: budget will translate into stronger support for One Nation than
24:28
Speaker 5: the Liberal Party. Now, it's certainly true to say that
24:31
Speaker 5: Angus Taylor in his reply to the budget gave a
24:34
Speaker 5: very strong and bold reply that's been welcomed. So I
24:39
Speaker 5: think there's been a lot of support for what Taylor did.
24:41
Speaker 5: The question is our voters listening to Angus Taylor or
24:47
Speaker 5: have they simply decided that they want to disrupt the system,
24:51
Speaker 5: disrupt politics, that they don't trust either major party and
24:55
Speaker 5: they're going to attack the system as such, and they're
24:57
Speaker 5: not interested in a rational approach.
25:01
Speaker 1: They're going to speak from the heart.
25:03
Speaker 5: They're going to speak in an emotional way and try
25:06
Speaker 5: and criticize the system. Now, if that's what's going on,
25:09
Speaker 5: that means that there'll be more support for One Nation,
25:12
Speaker 5: that will undermine the center right of politics, that will
25:15
Speaker 5: help Albanesi. If the one nation vote goes up, it
25:18
Speaker 5: doesn't matter how bad the budget is in the economic terms,
25:22
Speaker 5: Albanesi will be the winner.
25:24
Speaker 2: And you have more analysis on this exact point in
25:27
Speaker 2: your column on Saturday in the Weekend Australian. It's fascinating
25:32
Speaker 2: and I actually think what you're saying about one Nation
25:34
Speaker 2: being a disruptor and people just sick of the system Taylor,
25:39
Speaker 2: you know, and however strong his budget apply speeches, I
25:43
Speaker 2: think you're right. There's not enough cut through there to voters.
25:46
Speaker 2: And it's not dissimilar to President Trump and his rise
25:50
Speaker 2: that people just want to sick of the whole system,
25:53
Speaker 2: sick of the government, but end up benefiting labor. Unless
25:56
Speaker 2: they form, unless the coalition of One Nation can form
25:59
Speaker 2: some sort of a rain, it will just cement Albanesi
26:02
Speaker 2: in power.
26:03
Speaker 5: Well, I think the important thing we want is we
26:05
Speaker 5: want a rational approach, We want a debate on policy.
26:09
Speaker 5: We don't want a significant number of voters just saying
26:12
Speaker 5: I want to disrupt the system as such.
26:15
Speaker 1: That doesn't help democracy.
26:17
Speaker 2: Paul Kelly, thank you so much for being here.
26:19
Speaker 1: Thank you. Sherry.
26:21
Speaker 2: Right, well, let's bring in tonight's panel. Former Labor Chief
26:23
Speaker 2: of Staff Cameron Milner and former John Howard advisor David Gazard.
26:28
Speaker 2: Great to see you both. Cameron. You've written a piece
26:30
Speaker 2: in The Nightly this week where you argue that Treasurer
26:33
Speaker 2: Jim Chalmers may have just destroyed his chance to ever
26:36
Speaker 2: be Prime minister as he shares the ignominy of being
26:39
Speaker 2: joined at the hip to Albanesi's lies. Pretty strong words.
26:43
Speaker 2: I should point out to everyone again that you are
26:46
Speaker 2: a labor figure here, Cameron. Are labor supporters and MPs
26:51
Speaker 2: inside the government getting worried.
26:55
Speaker 5: They're getting nervous.
26:56
Speaker 6: They're certainly seeing it back in the electric you know,
26:58
Speaker 6: they got the kool aid in the court room. Now
27:00
Speaker 6: they've actually met voters, and voters are actually giving it
27:02
Speaker 6: to them out there in the electorate. So they're hearing
27:05
Speaker 6: the message loud and clear, and Alberti's has rattled Jim Chalmers,
27:08
Speaker 6: who was a fantastic performer, was reading from notes the
27:11
Speaker 6: other day at a press conference.
27:12
Speaker 1: It was that bad. No, and this is the problem.
27:14
Speaker 6: I'm a great support of Jim Chalmers. I think he's
27:16
Speaker 6: been a great reformer and Albert's cut him off at
27:18
Speaker 6: the knees every single time and now he's an accomplice
27:21
Speaker 6: in Albow's fraud. Albanese is fraud on the electorate. He
27:24
Speaker 6: lied before the election, he lied after the election. It
27:26
Speaker 6: was all about to seat and lies from Albanie. And
27:29
Speaker 6: unfortunately Jim Chalmers had to sip that cup of poison
27:32
Speaker 6: all the night on the budget night.
27:34
Speaker 2: But he would have agreed with the reforms though, I
27:36
Speaker 2: mean they weren't.
27:36
Speaker 6: They he his ideas, No, but Alberti's as you saw,
27:40
Speaker 6: and paulse Car was on your program last Monday night,
27:43
Speaker 6: Albertie has briefed out that before Christmas he gave marching
27:46
Speaker 6: orders to Charmers and Gallagher to go far further than
27:49
Speaker 6: to shortened. He didn't want to shortens reforms. He wanted
27:51
Speaker 6: the Albanese death tax. Albani's wanted the death tax because
27:54
Speaker 6: that's what's been presented the budget. He wanted trusts and
27:56
Speaker 6: business to be hit much harder than Labored ever proposed
27:59
Speaker 6: an election before. These are Albanes's changes and these are
28:02
Speaker 6: things that have gone completely pear shaped.
28:05
Speaker 2: David, do you think the Prime Minister will try and
28:07
Speaker 2: rush this legislation through just withstand the backlash? I mean,
28:11
Speaker 2: that's what he tried to do with the Royal Commission.
28:15
Speaker 1: I don't think he.
28:15
Speaker 7: Really controls the agenda anymore.
28:17
Speaker 8: Charry, This will no doubt pass the Lower House very quickly.
28:22
Speaker 8: The Coalition in the Upper House will oppose it tooth
28:25
Speaker 8: and nail and use it to drive their own agenda
28:30
Speaker 8: on tax which they desperately need. And it will come
28:34
Speaker 8: down to the Greens who have already indicated they want
28:38
Speaker 8: the tax changes to go further. I mean they want
28:41
Speaker 8: to raise more revenue for the government out of the budget,
28:44
Speaker 8: which the Labor Party obviously can't agree with. So I
28:48
Speaker 8: don't think the changes will go further or the changes
28:52
Speaker 8: will pass. I do think this is where you get
28:56
Speaker 8: titanic struggles in a normal relationship between the Prime Minister
29:01
Speaker 8: and the Treasurer. And if Albin Easy has done as
29:04
Speaker 8: Cameron Milner suggested and given Jim Chalmers his writing instructions,
29:10
Speaker 8: and Chalmers has taken those and willingly gone into the
29:15
Speaker 8: furnace with a plan like they've just done, I mean
29:19
Speaker 8: that that is really poor on his part. It's his
29:22
Speaker 8: fifth budget, he owns the fiscal and taxation agenda now,
29:28
Speaker 8: and if he couldn't see these problems emerging after being
29:32
Speaker 8: in the job for that long, then he does not
29:35
Speaker 8: deserve to become Prime Minister.
29:37
Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying, Cameron, but I just have
29:40
Speaker 2: to say find that very hard to believe that the
29:42
Speaker 2: Treasure wouldn't have been in complete agreeanents. I mean, I
29:45
Speaker 2: think that poor Sica article that you're talking about is
29:48
Speaker 2: the fight to take credit for these changes. That's what
29:51
Speaker 2: that was about, because it was before the before the
29:53
Speaker 2: budget had been handed down, and before the backlash. You
29:56
Speaker 2: don't see those sort of articles now arguing over who
29:59
Speaker 2: takes credit.
30:00
Speaker 6: No, but but.
30:01
Speaker 1: Just that point.
30:02
Speaker 6: It was before Christmas, before the Iran war, before the budget.
30:06
Speaker 6: Albow gave the instructions for these tax changes.
30:08
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, no, I know it here, but I
30:10
Speaker 2: still think the Treasure would have agreed with them. But
30:13
Speaker 2: we'll see, all right. Pauline Hanson has announced a policy
30:16
Speaker 2: to impose a ten percent royalty on all offshore offshore
30:20
Speaker 2: gas and oil production. Let's have a look.
30:23
Speaker 9: One nation's policy will drive more exploration, more development and
30:29
Speaker 9: more production without pushing out smaller Australian producers, I mean, David.
30:40
Speaker 2: She also raised the idea of a government stake in
30:43
Speaker 2: energy projects. What do you think, Look.
30:48
Speaker 8: I see where she's trying to go. I think the
30:50
Speaker 8: devil in this one will be in the detail. It's
30:54
Speaker 8: effectively a renationalization of gas, which you know, once you
30:58
Speaker 8: get out into the far right starts to join with
31:01
Speaker 8: the protectionist instinct so of the far left. So we're
31:04
Speaker 8: out into that territory. Now we have private companies risking
31:08
Speaker 8: their own capital in these areas for a reason that
31:12
Speaker 8: happens around the world, and governments normally don't involve themselves
31:17
Speaker 8: in the management of minerals and extractive industries because they're
31:22
Speaker 8: highly risky. They don't get involved in banks anymore, which
31:26
Speaker 8: are a lot safer than resource companies. So you can
31:30
Speaker 8: imagine taxpayers down the track being very, very cranky for
31:34
Speaker 8: a whole range of government dry wells, for instance. If
31:37
Speaker 8: that's where it goes. That is why you rely on
31:40
Speaker 8: the private sector deliver that Rozales do and they take
31:44
Speaker 8: the risk. Now I can understand the politics of where
31:47
Speaker 8: they want to take this, and that is that they
31:49
Speaker 8: want to get things moving, they want to drill, they
31:51
Speaker 8: want to get energy prices down, they want to have
31:54
Speaker 8: certainty in supply, and it's not unreasonable in a hypothetical
31:59
Speaker 8: sense to say, well, we'll take the risk with you
32:02
Speaker 8: and we'll get the reward with you. You don't get
32:05
Speaker 8: to bank the profits overseas and pay no tax. That
32:10
Speaker 8: would be her argument. But I grew up in the
32:13
Speaker 8: oil patch in Western Canada and it is a very
32:17
Speaker 8: risky business and taxpayers ought to know that they will
32:20
Speaker 8: be on the can if those wills don't come to fruition.
32:26
Speaker 2: I mean, Cameron will this policy though resonate with voters.
32:31
Speaker 6: Look at the party is completely schizophrenic. I mean she
32:33
Speaker 6: went to Adelaide to say that she was the best
32:34
Speaker 6: friend of the gas industry, yet Coury Bnardi voter gets
32:37
Speaker 6: cracking only forty eight hours ago.
32:39
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't have it both ways.
32:41
Speaker 6: They can't be airty fracking and pro gas. I mean,
32:43
Speaker 6: this party needs to get its act together if it
32:45
Speaker 6: wants to be taken seriously. I mean they can't have
32:47
Speaker 6: a state leader against the federal leader within forty eight hours.
32:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, let's have.
32:51
Speaker 6: A proper debate about the gas industry and what it
32:53
Speaker 6: should pay. And I think it should actually be like
32:55
Speaker 6: West Australia pay a domestic tariff. You know, I took
32:58
Speaker 6: give enough gas for manufacturers and for Australian jobs and
33:01
Speaker 6: then export the rest. That's fine, and pay their fair
33:03
Speaker 6: share of tax. But the idea of being a national
33:05
Speaker 6: shareholder in the gas companies, no, I'm sorry, that's last century.
33:10
Speaker 2: Well, you know, in normals, in any other political party,
33:14
Speaker 2: you'd say, yep, they do have to get on the
33:15
Speaker 2: same page. But it almost doesn't matter what Pauline Hanson
33:18
Speaker 2: says or what one nation does. They're just rising in
33:21
Speaker 2: the polls. All right, David Gazard, Camra Milner, thank you
33:23
Speaker 2: very much for your time. Coming up, Sarah Henderson will
33:26
Speaker 2: explain why she's asked the Royal Commissioner to examine the
33:29
Speaker 2: ABC plus concerns about a housing shock after the budget.
33:33
Speaker 2: Michael Stutchbury will join me live after the break. Wouldn't
33:40
Speaker 2: mind do well, let's return to the budget backlash now.
33:42
Speaker 2: Morgan Stanley analysts are warning that Labour's budget tax changes
33:46
Speaker 2: could smash Australian house prices by up to ten percent.
33:50
Speaker 2: They're warning the negative gearing and capital gains tax changes
33:53
Speaker 2: would hit investor demand and could trigger one of the
33:57
Speaker 2: biggest property corrections in forty years. And Jodan min noow
34:01
Speaker 2: is Center for Independent Studies Director and former Australian Financial
34:04
Speaker 2: Review editor in chief Michael Stutchfree, Michael, good to see you.
34:09
Speaker 1: Good to see the show.
34:09
Speaker 10: You didn't tell me I was going to be on
34:10
Speaker 10: after Paul Keating.
34:13
Speaker 2: They weren't, buddy. So do you think the Albaneze government
34:18
Speaker 2: actually understands the fire it's playing with when it comes
34:21
Speaker 2: to the property market.
34:23
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it's I think everyone will be looking
34:25
Speaker 10: at the property market because this has happened before. When
34:27
Speaker 10: Paul Keating wound back negative gearing in the nineteen eighties
34:31
Speaker 10: that led to a hit to property in investors putting
34:34
Speaker 10: money into the property market building new new houses, and
34:38
Speaker 10: they had to keeping had to reverse it. A similar
34:41
Speaker 10: thing has happened in New Zealand, where under the Arderne
34:43
Speaker 10: government they really cracked down on incentives for property investments
34:48
Speaker 10: and made a much heavier tax hit on investors. The
34:52
Speaker 10: national government had to come in and change that. I'd
34:55
Speaker 10: be looking at rents because the rental market is quite
34:58
Speaker 10: very tight. This is a hit on property investors in
35:01
Speaker 10: rental and if you see rents start to rise because
35:06
Speaker 10: property investors don't go into the market, then I think
35:09
Speaker 10: you'll see rents rising, and that'll be a real crunch
35:12
Speaker 10: point because this is supposed to be an intergenerational budget
35:16
Speaker 10: that helps young people, and young people are renters, a
35:19
Speaker 10: lot of them and they're trying to save up to
35:21
Speaker 10: get a deposit. So if you hit rentals, I think
35:24
Speaker 10: that it could be a crunch point.
35:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no question landlords would pass on the extra
35:29
Speaker 2: cost to renters. Of course they would. There's been this
35:32
Speaker 2: massive business backlash to the budget just today. Another group
35:36
Speaker 2: of women founders have come out as well. I mean,
35:40
Speaker 2: that's the last group of people the Albanisic government would
35:43
Speaker 2: be wanting to upset. Do you agree that the changes
35:47
Speaker 2: to the capital gains tax really only discourage people from
35:51
Speaker 2: starting a business.
35:52
Speaker 10: Well, it's an increased capital gains tax slug. It's making
35:56
Speaker 10: it more punitive not only for housing, which I think
35:59
Speaker 10: a lot of people expecting, but also for all other assets,
36:02
Speaker 10: from starting up your own business to investing in the
36:05
Speaker 10: stock market, having an ETF, or investing in.
36:07
Speaker 1: Crypto for that matter.
36:09
Speaker 10: So I think what's interesting is maybe not the scale
36:13
Speaker 10: of the backlash against the budget, but the people who
36:15
Speaker 10: are coming out against it, and that includes you know,
36:18
Speaker 10: startup tech bros who want to sort of maybe staff
36:22
Speaker 10: might work for not high wages to begin with, and
36:25
Speaker 10: they're hoping for a jackpot at the end of the
36:27
Speaker 10: end of the day when they get a unicorn investment. Instead,
36:30
Speaker 10: the government's going to end up coming along and taking
36:32
Speaker 10: a lot of that. Or it's coming from your women,
36:34
Speaker 10: from your female investors who want to have an alternative
36:37
Speaker 10: to working in a wage and a job to have that,
36:41
Speaker 10: and that'll hit them, and then as well too on
36:43
Speaker 10: the political side, someone like Chris Min's who's pointed out,
36:47
Speaker 10: you know, he has to hi he hires, pays for
36:49
Speaker 10: nurses and police and so he's saying, well, they're paying
36:53
Speaker 10: too much of their wages in income tax. What are
36:58
Speaker 10: you going to do about lowering that? And you haven't
36:59
Speaker 10: done that to Jim Chalmers. So I think it's interesting
37:02
Speaker 10: how life's a bit more, a bit more complicated than
37:06
Speaker 10: this simple division between workers earning wage income and fat
37:11
Speaker 10: rich capitalists earning income off assets, because.
37:14
Speaker 1: Labor is a bit of capital as well these days.
37:16
Speaker 2: I went through the figures on the show last night.
37:18
Speaker 2: I mean the number of Australians who own shares or
37:21
Speaker 2: own property or have their own business. I mean it's
37:26
Speaker 2: like one in three Australians that this budget hurts.
37:29
Speaker 5: And I think that's what we want to encourage.
37:31
Speaker 10: Australia is now a slow growth economy, big government, big
37:35
Speaker 10: high taxes, overregulated, slow growth. You know, the Reserve Bank
37:39
Speaker 10: has economy only grown by two percent a year before
37:42
Speaker 10: it bumps into inflation constraints. And that's when you take
37:45
Speaker 10: out population growth of one point five that's hardly growing
37:48
Speaker 10: at all. We need to have more incentives into the economy.
37:52
Speaker 10: Taxes are too high, top marginal tax rates too high.
37:56
Speaker 10: Company tax rate at thirty percent is too high by
37:58
Speaker 10: international standards, and now we're jacking up taxes on capital gains.
38:01
Speaker 2: Actually doing the opposite of what we need to make
38:04
Speaker 2: the nation were productive.
38:05
Speaker 10: I think we need more incentive and sharpen the incentives.
38:08
Speaker 10: Allow people to back them for taking more risks, starting
38:11
Speaker 10: up businesses, having great ideas and backing themselves rather than
38:15
Speaker 10: penalizing the more for doing that. We need more incentives
38:18
Speaker 10: rather than less.
38:19
Speaker 2: You've just given a big speech in New Zealand, Michael,
38:22
Speaker 2: where you say that our prosperity as a nation is slipping,
38:25
Speaker 2: and you talk about how schemes like the NDIS have
38:29
Speaker 2: blown out into a fifty billion dollars a year entitlement machine.
38:33
Speaker 2: I mean, it's no wonder labour's hunting for more tax revenue.
38:36
Speaker 10: I think think about theds. This was three weeks before
38:39
Speaker 10: the budget.
38:40
Speaker 1: This was a.
38:40
Speaker 10: Massive admission from Mark Butler that the NDIS was out
38:45
Speaker 10: of control and broken that he said, and riddled with
38:48
Speaker 10: criminality and fraud. So this is the poster child of
38:52
Speaker 10: labor entitlement programs and the care economy. So we're really
38:56
Speaker 10: admitting now that the increase in the soil government has
39:01
Speaker 10: got out of control and the increased size of government
39:04
Speaker 10: is why taxes have to rise. So people are starting
39:06
Speaker 10: to say, well, why should I have to have hire
39:09
Speaker 10: taxes to pay for a government that's got out of control.
39:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very good question. We're all asking it.
39:15
Speaker 2: Michael Starchb thank you so much for being here. Thanks Sherry,
39:17
Speaker 2: and for your analysis. Of course, all right, still to
39:20
Speaker 2: come why the Coalition wants the Royal Commission to examine
39:23
Speaker 2: ABC bias. Sarah Henderson after this quick break, welcome back
39:31
Speaker 2: and let's just get straight into it with Shadow Communications
39:34
Speaker 2: Minister Sarah Henderson. Good to see you. Look, I want
39:37
Speaker 2: to start with this breaking story that you've told us
39:41
Speaker 2: about tonight, exclusively that the Coalition is writing to the
39:44
Speaker 2: Royal Commission to ask it to examine Australia's cultural institutions
39:49
Speaker 2: and public broadcasters. Now I completely agree there's major normalization
39:56
Speaker 2: of anti Semitism in our arts and cultural institutions. So
39:59
Speaker 2: tell us a about when you wrote to the Royal
40:01
Speaker 2: Commissioner and what did you say. What's your argument?
40:07
Speaker 7: We'llch are great to join you.
40:09
Speaker 11: We are very concerned about the anti Semitism in some
40:14
Speaker 11: of these cultural institutions.
40:17
Speaker 7: And I think we've seen some real.
40:19
Speaker 11: Instances frequently since October seven, twenty twenty three, where these institutions,
40:25
Speaker 11: including the ABC, including Creative Australia, have sown division in
40:30
Speaker 11: our community. There has been some pretty stark examples of
40:34
Speaker 11: biased reporting. There was a terrible situation where the ABC
40:39
Speaker 11: reported that Israel had bombed a hospital in Gaza.
40:43
Speaker 7: They relied on.
40:44
Speaker 11: Sources from Hamas and then that report was wrong, Yet
40:48
Speaker 11: they didn't properly correct that report. It was very much buried.
40:52
Speaker 11: So we've seen constant examples like this, and Australians expect
40:56
Speaker 11: their publicly funded institutions in the art, public broadcasters to
41:02
Speaker 11: be at their very very best, and that's why we
41:04
Speaker 11: are calling for these cultural institutions to be properly examined
41:09
Speaker 11: by the Royal Commission.
41:11
Speaker 2: So you want there to be a specific hearing block
41:14
Speaker 2: to examine these issues where the Royal Commission could call
41:17
Speaker 2: in what people from the public broadcasters, from writers' festivals
41:22
Speaker 2: for example.
41:26
Speaker 7: That's exactly right.
41:27
Speaker 11: So the Royal Commission is still finalizing its program. My
41:31
Speaker 11: understanding is that they will be taking a very strong
41:34
Speaker 11: look at the universities and anti semitism online on social media,
41:39
Speaker 11: and we have certainly made representations seeking for there to
41:43
Speaker 11: be a lot of scrutiny into the arts organizations. Just say,
41:47
Speaker 11: for instance, have a look at Creative Australia. A writer
41:50
Speaker 11: funded by Creative Australia, Matt Chan, made some most appalling
41:55
Speaker 11: comments after Bondi. He said in an essay, don't mourn fascists.
42:02
Speaker 11: So I challenged the CEO of Creative Australia and said
42:05
Speaker 11: you must condemn this. He made some general comments of condemnation,
42:10
Speaker 11: but he did not specifically call out this person and
42:13
Speaker 11: say that is unacceptable. And the anti Semitism en voyage
42:17
Speaker 11: Lillian Siegel has made it very clear the public institutions
42:21
Speaker 11: which facilitate or promulgate antisemitism should not receive public funding.
42:27
Speaker 11: So we think this needs a very strong examination and
42:30
Speaker 11: I'm very hopeful that the Royal Commission will take this up.
42:33
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we'll follow up next week to see
42:36
Speaker 2: what their response to you is, Sarah, I just want
42:39
Speaker 2: to turn to this issue, the Tickle versus Giggle ruling,
42:42
Speaker 2: which has reignited the debate over female only spaces. Of course,
42:46
Speaker 2: now the Court has effectively found that gender identity can
42:50
Speaker 2: override biological sex under Australia's sex discrimination laws. So do
42:55
Speaker 2: you think these laws need to be revisited.
43:01
Speaker 7: Yes, I do.
43:02
Speaker 11: I'm a very strong proponent, as is the Coalition for
43:06
Speaker 11: changing the Sex Discrimination Act.
43:08
Speaker 7: This was an act.
43:09
Speaker 11: Introduced Charry to protect women and girls primarily from discrimination,
43:14
Speaker 11: and it's now been expanded in a whole lot of
43:16
Speaker 11: different ways. With the outcome, the biological sex no longer matters.
43:22
Speaker 11: Women and girls have effectively been expunded from the Sex
43:25
Speaker 11: Discrimination Act and for their privacy, their dignity and their safety,
43:31
Speaker 11: there are times when protecting women and girls the biological
43:36
Speaker 11: as defined by biological sex is critically important in refuges,
43:42
Speaker 11: in jails, on the sporting field, and of course in
43:45
Speaker 11: bathrooms and change rooms.
43:47
Speaker 7: So this is a really alarming decision.
43:50
Speaker 11: I think most Australians are pretty horrified by what sal
43:53
Speaker 11: Grover has had to endure. As you know, she's set
43:57
Speaker 11: up an app, a women's only app, and she just
43:59
Speaker 11: wanted to create a longline space for women. And now
44:03
Speaker 11: of course the whole law of relating to protective where
44:07
Speaker 11: it has been turned on the.
44:07
Speaker 2: Team, absolutely terrible. Just quickly before you go, Sarah, there's
44:11
Speaker 2: been international outrage after one of Israel's most controversial and
44:15
Speaker 2: despised minister's Ben Gevia, posted videos where he behaved poorly
44:21
Speaker 2: towards Palestinian activist in a demeaning fashion. Penny Wong has
44:26
Speaker 2: hold Israel's ambassador in over this to defat. Now, I
44:32
Speaker 2: don't know about do you think this was necessary when
44:35
Speaker 2: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Ettnya, who had already strongly come
44:39
Speaker 2: out and condemned it along with the Israeli Foreign Minister
44:44
Speaker 2: Israel Kats. I mean, what was she hoping, sorry, Gideon
44:47
Speaker 2: sa what was she hoping to achieve? When Nettaya, who
44:51
Speaker 2: agrees with her.
44:55
Speaker 11: Well, I don't know other than I think Penniwong and
44:58
Speaker 11: the Abdeazy government has consisted lee undermined the relationship between
45:02
Speaker 11: Australia and Israel.
45:04
Speaker 7: It is a pity they.
45:05
Speaker 11: Don't take the same stand when the Palestinian authority makes
45:10
Speaker 11: all sorts of terrible decisions. Of course, there's been many,
45:14
Speaker 11: many different decisions made by this government that have really
45:18
Speaker 11: reflected very poorly on the incredibly important relationship between Israel
45:23
Speaker 11: and Australia.
45:24
Speaker 7: Penniwong did not need to do this.
45:27
Speaker 11: This was properly managed by the Israeli Prime Minister and
45:29
Speaker 11: that's pretty regrettable.
45:31
Speaker 2: All right, Sarah, thank you very much for your time,
45:35
Speaker 2: and don't go anywhere yet. The economy is being crushed
45:37
Speaker 2: as unemployment hits the highest levels since the pandemic. We'll
45:41
Speaker 2: get more on that after the break