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Halloween: Haunted Tradition or Harmless Fun? · Relish: a Christian podcast

• 0:01
  Relish, pleasing or zestful flavor, a quantity just sufficient to flavor,
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  to be pleased or gratified by, enjoy.
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  We are hoping that what we bring to your table today might add some spice to your life.
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  Welcome to another spooky episode of relish maybe i'm alex zimmerman,
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  this is don patterson how you doing don i'm doing well yeah good good yeah um
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  we're all glad that you guys are joining us we're going to talk about halloween
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  a little bit today that sound good,
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  a little spooky a little spooky right spooky time um it's sometime in october
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  while we're recording this we thought that it'd be a good idea to talk about
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  this topic of, you know, like, you know,
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  Halloween, night of fun, candy, you know, whatever.
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  Or, you know, is it this holiday rooted in pagan tradition that Christians should
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  really avoid, you know, does and does the history of this celebration determine
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  whether Christians can participate in it?
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  And then, you know, what does the Bible say about it? So before we before we
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  really dive into that, let's just go back and look at the history of today, what we call Halloween?
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  Well, almost every culture has some transitional piece between the summer and
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  the fall where we put the summer to bed and.
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  The Halloween kind of stuff that we think about was dispelling the old spirits
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  or the dead spirits from our house so that we don't have to deal with them all winter.
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  You know, and so clean house, you know, and so it, yeah, it could be considered
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  a spiritual cleaning of house.
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  And so there was a honoring of what was going on.
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  In the Christian side, it was All Saints Day.
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  And so you were remembering the saints that passed away. And there's some traditions
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  still do that to this day.
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  And it's not bad to think about, you know, Aunt Grace on my mother's side passed
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  away this year, and she really made a really good.
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  Killer pecan pie, you know, I remember her. So yeah. Yeah. Anyway,
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  it can be all those things.
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  Uh, but it's a time of remembering and especially those who'd passed away.
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  Uh, that sort of got twisted then a little bit with, okay, got some people we
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  don't want to remember that.
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  Uh, and so I, we don't want their little spirits running around in there and
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  the, the knowledge of spirits and what they do and that kind of thing,
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  uh, sort of evolved over time, especially during the dark ages.
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  I mean, you go to the dark ages and, and you have, uh, all sorts of kinds of,
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  uh, demonic, uh, dark spirits, uh, that they're trying to dispel,
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  you know, and make sure that they're in their place so we can be on our place and be safe.
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  And, uh, so the Halloween kind of thing happened.
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  What's interesting then is, uh, all this spooky stuff, you know,
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  is a really entertaining to kids sure.
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  Yeah and so commercialism took it to a whole different level oh yeah oh let's what let's,
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  since we don't believe in spirits anyway let's uh,
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  dress up our kids in these uh awful things yeah so that our little sweet things don't you know,
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  they aren't tempting and they aren't threatened and we can dispel all this spirit
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  cute yeah cute and then uh let's give them a little something sweet to sweeten
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  it up and that kind of thing.
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  And so it's really moved from, from where it started to where it is today.
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  And, uh, so that even Christians say, well, they're so cute.
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  Those kids are just so cute. I want to see them.
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  And the older folks, what I find is interesting. The older folks say,
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  oh, make sure they come to my house.
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  I'll have some special treats for those kids because they want to see the kids.
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  Yeah. And they're so cute.
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  How can you not? How can you not?
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  And then, you know, some people who do spiritual warfare and that kind of thing,
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  realize that that is a celebration of demonic spirits that we should not in any way be a part of.
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  And so, in a conversation I was having with those who do spiritual warfare is,
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  what on earth would we be doing anything to celebrate these demonic spirits
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  in any way, shape, or form?
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  Because of what they're doing to our people, these demonic spirits.
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  Yeah. So that's your take. You stated that.
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  That's your opinion. That's your argument you're making, is that this is a celebration
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  of demonic spirits. Yeah.
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  There's a guy who, and he's online, you don't have to look very far for it, who says,
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  from where he was at as a priest in the demonic temple, that the Christians
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  should have absolutely nothing to do with halloween because it's the highest
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  day in the uh demonic realm,
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  it's the highest celebration in satan's demonic realm okay and so he's saying
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  absolutely you cannot have anything to do with it i see even as cute as those
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  kids get and they do get so cute yeah,
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  yes and of course you know me and sweets yeah yeah,
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  so it's quite a holiday yeah and i'm gonna interject here just a little bit,
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  some levity and then we'll get back to that okay.
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  I think it's crazy to dress any kid as a pirate. Not that cute.
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  And what a... Dress him as Hitler, you might as well.
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  He probably did fewer bad things than pirates did. You know,
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  they were like stealing, killing, raping.
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  But Johnny Depp did such a good job.
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  But Johnny Depp was so funny as a pirate. Oh, yeah. Yes. Name one activity that
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  a pirate did that you were like, I would like if my kid did that.
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  Zero of it. No. You don't want them to do any of those things.
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  I want my kid on a boat that long. That'd be the only one that maybe befriend
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  a parent. That'd be cool. But other than that, and then.
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  Yeah, but what they taught the parent to say. I mean, goodness gracious. Exactly.
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  And then another gripe I'll have is just, can we cool it with the candy?
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  The amount of candy that our kids get for parades and Halloween is bananas.
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  Anyways. So we should throw chickpeas? Yeah. Here's a healthy apple. Yeah.
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  Apple. Well, no, you might get your house egged or get a firecracker with dog
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  poop in a bag or something if you do that.
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  And you can't give out apples because, you know, somebody might put razor blades.
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  I mean, some of those things that they do in Halloween, razor blades and apples,
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  who would ever be so twisted to think of that?
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  I don't think, I'm not sure how much that ever happened. I do know there was
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  like a big thing in like the 80s where people were bringing their candy and
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  they get x-rayed and stuff like that.
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  And the trouble is they did find some. Did they really? Yes.
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  Wild um oh goodness what's anyway come and do so i like i'll be i'll be um i'm
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  i'm actually kind of opposed to um,
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  i think halloween is a an american tradition and i think that you can do community
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  things during that i don't.
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  I don't like my kids dressed as demonic things. That's not what I like.
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  That seems, I don't like that.
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  And I don't encourage that. I don't want that to happen. And I mean,
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  even with my son, Charlie, this was, it was a really, he gets good conversations sometimes.
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  They're cute kids. Yeah, they're very cute.
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  There was a yard. We were coming back from like a doctor's appointment because
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  he was in school. There was this big yard that was full of decorations.
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  And like you know like the 20 foot tall skeletons you know there's a dead there's
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  a tree and there's like a dude hanging on the tree or something you've been
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  around our circle huh well it was like this was.
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  They have thousands of dollars they're spending on this this is their favorite holiday of the year,
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  where do they store this thing that's that's where i'm like who is keeping all
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  this stuff anyways and i remember just being like i just don't get that and
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  charlie's saying like yeah like,
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  you never see like any good thing there so like what are we why are we doing
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  it's like well and so i told him about like all saints day that's kind of where
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  it came from he goes and he goes that's interesting,
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  because no one dresses up like a saint and i'm like you're right and he goes,
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  i'm guessing god would probably like it better if you dressed up like a saint
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  i go yeah he goes probably just satan likes it when you dress up like a demon
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  i'm like right you know The kid got it.
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  Yeah. And I don't want to really, you know, encourage this community aspect,
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  but like, I do get the, like, it is.
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  And then what does it do with the spiritual dispelling?
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  You know, if, if the holiday started way back to make sure that the spirits
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  were satisfied and not going to cause you a trouble all winter while you're inside.
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  I mean, basically it's Northern hemisphere kind of stuff going on.
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  So winter comes on and you don't have these spirits in the house with you.
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  You take care of them on Halloween.
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  How did it get from All Saints Day to...
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  To the Halloween that we understand it and know that's, I, I can't explain how
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  it went from being something positive to something negative.
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  Um, yeah, well, I mean, I think it was the day before all saints day. So all hallows Eve.
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  So there was other things that were done on all hallows Eve,
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  but you know, similar in preparation. Right.
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  Right. And I think the idea was that it was, that became this pagan festival
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  that was kind of like in mockery.
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  In mockery. All hallows Eve.
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  So they're kind of doing the opposite. Yeah. So Halloween became the mockery of all houses. Yeah.
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  And so then it had to be the dark side. Right. So tell me how the dark side
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  got more publicity than the other side.
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  Well, that's the interesting thing too. Like if you look at,
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  and I think we've, so we've done a Halloween episode before. We have.
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  And I, we talked about Dios de los Muertos. That's what they do down in Mexico
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  and other, you know, Southern, uh, South American countries. Right.
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  And even that has pagan roots to it too. but like at least they're doing the
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  like remembering the loved ones from the past,
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  yeah now they're all dressing up like spooky skeletons and and that's i mean
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  it it is this that's the demonic part of it like that is the or the dead part
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  of it you're glorifying death and that is truly what is happening there,
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  that's the part i really am uncomfortable with yeah i have a hard time glorifying death.
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  But i do think that there's different areas in culture like where you can have
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  categories where there's like, we don't as Christians, right? We don't do this.
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  And then there's areas where like, we do this. This is what we do differently then.
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  And then there's, there could be areas where like, Hey, we're going to do this
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  certain thing, a Christian way, or maybe we're trying to recapture this as Christians,
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  or maybe we're trying to glorify the good parts of this.
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  And specifically, like if everyone did the good parts of Halloween and stayed
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  away from all of the like the satanic things of it you know what I mean yeah
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  and made that look kind of dumb right yeah.
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  It would be nice, but I haven't seen any congregation that I've been part of,
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  be able to get traction with people to do an All Saints Day thing. Oh, sure. Yeah.
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  Where you dress your kids up like Paul. Oh, yeah. I wonder how many people,
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  how many kids look like Paul.
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  Anyway, you dress like Paul or Abraham or, you know, and,
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  I haven't had it happen.
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  Halloween has a whole lot more traction sure i mean you can get a hallmark card
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  i think for halloween okay i mean you can still get your kids,
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  they're all saints you good things you can teach them humility you can teach
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  them gratitude while you're out there trick-or-treating walking for endless
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  miles you can do that i think in a good way,
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  don't you don't you think you can get some good from this thing and recapture,
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  get some good out of Halloween is what you're saying.
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  Yeah, but I don't think there's so many people out there that are actively participating
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  in this demonic celebration. No one sees it like that.
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  But I guess that could also be part of Satan's plan is to make both people.
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  That we don't see it. If we saw it, we would cringe.
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  That is a good point. His name is the deceiver. He is the great deceiver.
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  And my question encounter would be, is that part of the deception? Yeah.
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  And, uh, you know, well, it's not anything wrong, you know, dress up a little bit and get candy.
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  And dang, the more you talk about this, the more I'm like. I started,
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  I started to say, well, I'm sorry, you know, out of all those 365 days of the
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  year that we could celebrate something.
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  I'm sort of coming away saying.
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  Why that? Why that? Yeah. And, and I don't want to be mean, I love to see the kids.
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  Uh, decorate it and, and, uh, I'll dude it up and, and they're so sweet.
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  And I like a give them candy. I'm sorry. I'm a grandpa. It's it.
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  We spoil them. We send them back home. Yeah. They're awful.
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  It's a, it's a, it's the right of grandparent, you know, and,
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  uh, we want to see their smile and see them light up when you give them something. I agree.
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  Yeah. It's so much fun. It is.
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  Maybe another day. Yeah. I'm just, yeah, we, we still practice all the lights off.
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  Okay. We don't open the door. We don't put the lights on. For us,
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  it's a quiet night. Yeah. In our family. Okay.
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  I hear that. And we're, we're not going to do that. We, we.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I hear that. And, and I'll just, you know,
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  it's been such a tradition in my family and it's like, it's an American tradition that we have.
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  And I, there's, there's just this great, big, big part of me that wants to say
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  that it can be recaptured.
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  It can, we can, like, we can turn this into good.
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  We can say, we're not dressing in scary costumes. You can dress in like good
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  costumes and we're going to try to capture it.
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  But like there is this piece that you bring up that's just like,
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  you know, if Satan wanted you to get involved in his,
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  holiday of darkness and death and evil, you know, it would start exactly the
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  way every other sin in my life has started where it's a little bit's not going to hurt.
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  Just dip your toe in. You know, it's not going to be a big deal.
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  I feel like it's how every alcoholic starts back into being an alcoholic.
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  Every sexual perversion every second of that is just a little just a little
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  bit won't hurt exactly and uh that's how we are deceived yeah so,
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  yeah i still like the candy i mean the the method of it the you know this this,
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  how satan works you definitely see the trademarks of it there but i'm not sure if i see the,
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  oh after every halloween you know fewer people come to church or drop off going to church or like,
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  you know, Satan gets more followers because of it.
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  You know, I mean, there might be more kids with stomach aches or cavities, but.
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  Yeah, I would amplify your point of footholds.
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  Yeah, yeah. Because they are those subtle little pieces that we yield to Satan.
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  Conversation I had not long ago was, okay, so I go ahead and do this.
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  Am I damned to hell forever?
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  And I said, no, no, your salvation is in place, but you have deeded a portion of,
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  to Satan.
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  So I said, you let it have an anchor that should have been Jesus.
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  And that's just the way it happens. And God has a way of taking care of that.
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  And he said, oh, how does that work? I said, okay, look at 1 Corinthians 3, verses 11 through 15.
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  I said, so it says, there is no foundation than that which is laid in Christ Jesus.
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  No other foundation by which we, and then on top of that foundation,
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  we build with gold, silver, costly stones, or wood, hay, and straw.
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  And then it goes on and talks about the fact that there's going to be a fiery test.
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  And while the fiery test tests those things on top of the foundation,
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  some are burned up and some are purified.
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  I think that's sort of the way it is with us. Yeah. But we don't lose our salvation.
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  Right. Because that foundation is in place.
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  So then the question comes, am I building with the right stuff? Yeah.
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  And so I, you know, if you want to dress the kids up, I love to watch them. Yeah.
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  It's not something I'm going to participate in. I would say there's a realm
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  where there is some building that can happen during Halloween.
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  And you know some churches are doing is that that's not hunk in a trunk what
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  is that what they they do the trunk part like trunk or treat trunk or treat,
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  where'd that come from hunk in a trunk man that sounds like a bachelorette party
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  thing it uh maybe that's where it anyway.
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  Change my algorithm oh yeah uh they're churches that are trying to entertain,
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  and connect with the kids by opening their trunks at a common place and having all the kids come,
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  instead of all over town where they might meet with a, who knows what,
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  it's a safe environment and everybody is sort of vetted as to who's going to
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  be there that day and, uh, what kind of things are going to come up.
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  And, uh, so that's a safe environment. Yeah.
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  Yeah. I like that. Yep. So they're trying. Yep.
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  Okay. Yeah, I think we hit this one plenty enough.
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  You guys got some other arguments to throw in there. Yeah, give it to us.
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  I've heard both sides, very strong opinions of it. And, you know,
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  it's always very fascinating. And I feel like it's one of those ones where you
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  don't really have to run the risk of really alienating yourself with somebody else too badly.
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  Right. You know what you think about this? This is interesting.
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  And good points can be made on both sides.
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  It's a good conversation. So glad to have it with you. I don't want anybody
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  to say, oh, Pastor Don's against Halloween. Right. Well, yeah.
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  Pastor Don is against Halloween, but he's not against you. Yeah.
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  That's exactly right. I love you. Yep. All right, everyone. I love you too. Hey.
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  Enjoy your day. Enjoy your week. Enjoy your October. and hey,
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  we'll see you guys all next week.
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  Lord willing. Bye. Thank you for joining us for this podcast.
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  Feel free to become part of this ministry by sharing it with others.
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  Our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our understanding of who God is
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  and is calling to us in our daily lives.
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  Thank you again for joining us and may God bless your day.