Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 183. HGSE Global Citizen: Neera Sameda: Using Courage to Pivot for your American Dream

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183. HGSE Global Citizen: Neera Sameda: Using Courage to Pivot for your American Dream · Be A Global Citizen!

0:04
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
0:08
explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
0:11
value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm a
0:15
SOCO researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
0:18
stories, and insights on this podcast to being valuable and
0:22
inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
0:25
committed to living a contributive life.
0:27
Enjoy the conversation. Hi, my name is Nira Samantha.
0:37
I am based in New Jersey. What I do currently, I'm the
0:41
Director of Customer success in college coaching for a private
0:45
college consulting company. What that really means, I
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support high school students throughout the entire college
0:51
admissions process and then also into the first semester of
0:54
college. We're not just about, you know,
0:56
college admissions, but really student development, that long
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term growth and development. So a four year program typically
1:03
starts freshman year. And so we'll see a little bit of
1:05
that student development and then into the college admissions
1:08
process as well. Wonderful, wonderful.
1:11
Thank you so much, Neera for joining me on the podcast.
1:14
And I, I love that you, you work with, with young students,
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right? Supporting them in a very
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pivotal point in their journey as they're kind of figuring out
1:24
what the next big step is, but also developing them, right?
1:29
Because sometimes we get so caught up in the, the end and we
1:33
don't really understand the actual journey, like the means
1:36
to get to that end. So that student development
1:38
part, I think is so crucial and not having it be just like
1:42
packed into one year, their senior year, right?
1:44
These students have a lot of stress that they're going
1:46
through already. And so kind of like spreading
1:49
that out. And then I would imagine also
1:51
providing them kind of mentorship piece, right?
1:55
Building stronger connections with them and, yeah, setting
1:59
them up for success, whatever that might mean.
2:01
So, you know, college admissions, it's, it's near and
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dear to my heart as well. I did a little bit of it when I
2:08
was working at my alma mater. I was an admissions counselor,
2:11
so I know some of the terrain that you that you navigate, but
2:15
I'd love to hear more like in greater detail and also about
2:19
like what got you to this point of supporting students in this
2:22
capacity. So I'd love to pass it over to
2:25
you, Neera, if you can share a little bit more about some of
2:28
the the twists and turns of your journey.
2:31
What ultimately got you to do the work that you're doing right
2:34
now? So yeah, love to hear from you.
2:36
OK, so the the journey for me really will will backtrack a
2:41
long time ago, right when I was born, when I was a kid.
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I'm not going to go through, you know, every moment of life.
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But that's really what set the tone.
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So I was born in Trinidad and Tobago.
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That's where my parents are both from, you know, most of my
2:52
family is from. We immigrated to the US, to New
2:55
Jersey and then never really left when I was, you know, young
2:59
kid through about three to five years old.
3:02
And that being an immigrant growing up was always a really
3:06
big part of my identity. We also grew up, you know, very
3:09
low income, like a lot of other immigrants coming to this
3:13
country. My parents were really young
3:15
when they had me, early 20s, new country, not a lot of support.
3:19
And so, right, the American dream, that's the big thing that
3:22
motivated them. And that to me as the oldest
3:27
child is the older daughter as well.
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So have a younger brother, a lot of the expectations and pressure
3:34
to be successful, to be smart, go to college, get a good job
3:38
and help take the family out of poverty.
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Things that are very, very common for a lot of immigrants
3:43
were a lot of what my experience was.
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I love science when I was a kid. I just loved people.
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And I was pretty naturally smart.
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So all of that led to, you know, the typical three choices a lot
3:55
of immigrant kids have. Doctor, lawyer, engineer.
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And because I like science so much, it's like, OK, go be a
4:00
doctor that makes the most sense for you.
4:02
And that was really the narrative that I heard all
4:05
throughout, you know, growing up and then especially in high
4:07
school. We'll pivot a little bit to my
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own college admissions journey as part of a college access
4:13
program in high school called the Princeton University
4:16
Preparatory Program for high achieving, low income, typically
4:21
first Gen. students in the kind of Princeton, NJ greater area.
4:25
And that is really what helped just open my options for
4:29
college, learning about the college admissions process, what
4:33
kind of colleges were out there and where opportunities.
4:36
So I was really fortunate I got into Duke, my top choice school.
4:39
I got a really great scholarship to attend.
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And so it's a no brainer amazing pre Med program as well.
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And so I started College in 2016 as a career Med student at Duke.
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Really, really liked my time there.
4:52
Switched very soon into a psych pre Med major.
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I started as bio as I thought, OK, I'm doing so much science, I
4:59
want to do something that's, you know, a little different.
5:01
I started enjoying understanding how people develop and just
5:05
knowing those backgrounds, child development, career development,
5:08
things like that. OK, we get to the end of college
5:11
now it is 2020, which we all know what happened to 2020.
5:15
And so my last semester of college was in the during the
5:19
start of the pandemic was a weird, you know, hybrid.
5:22
We're trying to figure out what's going on.
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First time mass trans transition into Zoom during that time,
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still pre Med. I'm preparing for and studying
5:33
for the M Cat. We'll Fast forward a little bit
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more and I started medical school in July of 2021.
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So I started at New York Medical College and still just following
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along with the expectations of family.
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I'm still working towards medicine.
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I think this is really the only option for me, and now I'll
5:53
backtrack a little bit slightly as well, that when I was in
5:56
college, I did some college access work, some college
6:00
admissions work for the program that I was in with another
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college access center in Durham when I was at Duke.
6:07
And I loved that work, but I never thought of it as a career
6:10
path. It's just something I love
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doing, love working with students like myself.
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But when I was in Med school, taking the classes, I'm enjoying
6:17
learning, but I don't like the program.
6:20
I'm not finding that personal fulfillment and and passion that
6:24
I see in a lot of my peers and my friends.
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So I really started questioning, you know, did I make the right
6:29
decision? Was I just making this decision
6:31
the entire time for my family, for my parents?
6:34
And had a lot of really tough conversations, stuck out the
6:38
year of Med school? You know, told myself I owed it
6:40
to myself. I worked so hard to get here.
6:42
Med school is so many people's dream.
6:44
I got here. I put in the hard work, just try
6:46
to stick it out, get involved, see what you can do.
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And I did that for the year, but it just, it didn't feel right.
6:53
And so I took an official leave of absence from Med school July
6:56
of 2022. I cried a little bit for a few
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months about not having a job and not knowing what I was going
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to do next, and started thinking about, OK, where do I want to
7:06
go? I want to go into higher
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education. I know I want to work with
7:08
students, want to do something that's not really teaching but
7:12
more maybe advising development. These are the things that I'm
7:15
thinking. Applied to a bunch of jobs in
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the New Jersey area. Got a job at the College of New
7:21
Jersey working in the admissions office, but specifically for the
7:26
Education Opportunity Fund program.
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And so I, I don't mentioned a few times, probably in class,
7:32
you may not may or may not have heard me mention that you have
7:35
programmed before, but it's a New Jersey State funded program
7:38
for students from low income backgrounds who need support
7:41
going into higher education. They have the drive, the
7:44
motivation and the potential to do really well, but not as much
7:47
of the support. And so that to me was a little
7:49
different than the typical admissions process because this
7:52
this really niche subset of students were looking at a lot
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of minority students, a lot of 1st and immigrant students and
7:59
being able to help give them the access into college.
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Was it aligned with a lot of my personal goals?
8:06
Did that work for, you know, about two years?
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I started at Harvard, you know, in May of 2023.
8:13
And so I'm working at TC and J having a good time, enjoying
8:16
working with the students, but it felt still a little too
8:19
transactional for me. I didn't have as much connection
8:22
with the students as I wanted to have.
8:24
So with that, I, I just started looking at other jobs, not too
8:28
seriously, but casually thought I would go into like a program
8:33
coordinator position. Very quickly realized I did not
8:35
want to do academic advising, but maybe career development,
8:38
student development, things in that realm.
8:42
But then really I kind of pivoted really with where I
8:46
thought I was going to be because this past fall when my
8:49
employer now reached out to me on LinkedIn, said, hey, I'm
8:52
hiring for this position, Said, hey, why not?
8:55
OK, let's take a look, see what it's about.
8:57
And went through the interview process, ended up being a really
9:00
good fit specifically because it's a director level position.
9:04
And so I recognize I'm still pretty young.
9:06
I'm still really early in my career and in higher Ed, there's
9:09
a lot of steps you have to follow, right?
9:11
So admissions counselor, it's an entry level job.
9:13
The next position I would have gotten would have been something
9:16
like an advisor or a coordinator or a development specialist, not
9:19
really an assistant director, associate or even a director
9:23
level position. And I knew that this job now,
9:26
and I'm moving away from higher Ed, I work in the on the other
9:29
side of the table now doing the college admissions advising and
9:33
consulting, but I'm also leading a team of coaches.
9:37
I'm also managing A curriculum, I'm overseeing hiring processes,
9:40
I'm doing data collection. So a lot of leadership that I'm
9:44
able to get out of this role that is really just helping me
9:47
grow 1 professionally, but also personally learning just how to
9:51
work for people a little bit more leadership skills.
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So that was a very long ramble with a lot of things going on,
9:57
but it's kind of what brought me here.
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I'm sure, you know, I can talk a little bit more specifically
10:02
about my job, but that's kind of the big picture of how I got to
10:05
what I do now. Wow, thank you so much, Neera.
10:08
And you know, I feel we just completed our master's program
10:12
at Harvard together, right? Two years online program for the
10:16
most part. But yeah, I've hadn't hadn't had
10:19
the time to like sit down with you and really hear more of your
10:23
story. And, and it's, it's, it's
10:26
incredible, You know, it's, it's really beautiful the, the
10:29
efforts from, you know, your parents, right?
10:31
Initially coming to the US, your own journey in terms of like,
10:36
kind of making sense of like, what is what is the American
10:40
dream for myself? What is being asked of me by my
10:43
parents? But then ultimately, as I think
10:45
you, you shared in your story, realizing that you need to kind
10:49
of take ownership of your own decisions and kind of listen to
10:52
your own gut as far as what's really going to like light me up
10:56
in terms of like the passion, like the work that you do, what
11:00
is the best fit and being able to, you know, give yourself the
11:05
kind of like wiggle room to, to make your own way.
11:08
And, and, you know, going from like Med school to now, you
11:14
know, college advising and like college admissions, it might
11:18
seem completely different, But you know, I, I think, you know,
11:21
all of the skills that you've accumulated over, over that,
11:23
that experience is applicable because, you know, you've been
11:27
able to get into like the top schools in the US.
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So there's a reason for why you were able to do that.
11:33
So in some ways it's like you can say from your own
11:36
background, like, oh, I put in the hard work.
11:38
I know the strategies, the insurance and outs of it.
11:41
Now you're just kind of like applying that into an actual
11:43
program where you can now, like the leadership piece of it, work
11:49
with others to offer even more opportunities for like
11:53
minorities, low income. Again, something that you,
11:57
you've, you've experienced while you were growing up and that I'm
11:59
sure you find quite fulfilling, Not just in the day-to-day work
12:03
and building of skills, but the bigger picture of like, oh, this
12:06
is, this is the impact that you're wanting to make.
12:08
And you're, you're just at the beginnings as well.
12:10
So, so exciting, you know, because there's, there's so much
12:14
more right that that you can continue to, to grow into as a
12:18
director role. But then, you know, even beyond
12:20
that too. So, you know, you strike me as a
12:22
very ambitious person. So, you know, I'm sure that
12:25
there's a lot going on. So, yeah, I mean, like I guess
12:31
one, one of the the follow up questions that I'd love to hear
12:34
a little bit more about because you, you started with the fact
12:37
that you were born in Trinidad and Tobago and, and I imagine
12:43
you you left and immigrated with your family at a relatively
12:47
young age. How old were you?
12:49
More or less. Yeah, so I was less than 5.
12:53
I don't know exactly how old I was, you know, Don't remember
12:56
quite, but yeah, less than 5, so very young.
12:59
OK, because I'm just curious about like, you know, some
13:01
people like, you know, they still have like memories from,
13:03
you know, growing up in, in, you know, like where they were born
13:07
and then moving. Some very light ones, not a lot
13:11
of the moving process and what that was like.
13:13
I have some memories from back in Trinidad when I was younger,
13:17
a lot of early memories of just kind of living in the US.
13:21
We moved around, we kind of bounced from couch to couch
13:24
from, you know, some other family members who were here.
13:27
But something really, I guess not really that unique, but
13:29
something my parents always really cared about is that
13:32
right, We didn't grow up with a lot.
13:34
They, you know, I mentioned they struggled off financially, but
13:36
always wanted my brother and I to still be connected to our
13:41
roots. And so we would actually go back
13:43
to Trinidad every summer as kids from I think when I was about 7
13:48
or 8 years old, really after my brother was born, I'm five years
13:52
older than him. So he was born in the States, so
13:54
definitely less than five. And then, you know, another year
13:56
later and then my brother was born.
13:58
But from the time he was about 3 and I was about 8 years old, we
14:03
would go back to Trinidad every summer with my grandparents who
14:07
would go. And so really from, you know,
14:09
June to August, we lived in Trinidad every year.
14:12
And then September to May, we're in school in the US.
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So we grew up in America. We grew up going to schools
14:18
here. But then every summer had three
14:20
months back in Trinidad, still able to connect with our culture
14:23
and our roots and our family down there.
14:25
And that was one thing my parents always prioritized for
14:28
us because they didn't want us to to lose that piece of our
14:31
life. Yeah, no, that sounds, that
14:33
sounds amazing. And when you would go back to
14:36
Trinidad and Tobago, what was, I don't know from your like
14:39
childhood memories, the highlight that was there any
14:42
exciting point of like, oh, this is what I want to do over there.
14:45
This is what I really like. Honestly, it was just going to
14:49
the beaches, just the the community and the vibe is
14:53
Trinidad. It's very much more
14:54
communalistic than it is in the US.
14:57
We'll go to the beach and there's just kids playing, you
15:00
know, soccer. We'll just go join with anyone
15:03
can feel like people are, I don't want to say people aren't
15:07
friendly here, but it's a lot more like you'll just pull up on
15:10
someone. They're doing a little bonfire
15:11
on the beach and like, hey, you know, can I, can I have some
15:13
snacks? And like, yeah, of course, come
15:15
join us. And having the comfort to do
15:17
that, it really just felt kind of like a different world.
15:20
And I think for us, it's like fun and novel, right?
15:22
We're away from our parents for three months or having a good
15:25
time. It's just going all around,
15:27
seeing the family, hanging out with our uncle who lived in
15:30
Trinidad still. And so a lot of that, I don't
15:33
think there's anything big or grand we necessarily looked
15:36
forward to. It's just seeing the family we
15:38
hadn't seen, getting to go to the beaches, hanging out,
15:41
enjoying summer. Yeah, yeah.
15:43
And valuing your, your culture by like, you know, having your,
15:46
your children like go back and have that exposure, I think is
15:49
so, so wonderful and so amazing because, you know, you're
15:52
literally navigating two different worlds, right?
15:54
Even from like the description of like 1's more
15:57
individualistic, 1 is more communalistic.
15:59
Like that's already quite significant and probably raises
16:03
some questions of like, when you go back, there's that reverse
16:06
culture shock of like kind of readjusting and being like, OK,
16:09
now I need to switch into a different mode.
16:12
And maybe it can feel a little bit clunky, but I'm sure over
16:15
the years. And then, you know, New Jersey's
16:17
is quite ethnically diverse as well.
16:20
You kind of understand like, oh, there's there's something else
16:23
right going on here that I need to be kind of more mindful of
16:26
and I'm sensitive of. And yeah, it's just kind of
16:29
noting some of those differences because, you know.
16:33
One thing I remember actually one thing we always looked
16:36
forward to, really food based. So there's two things we always,
16:39
always looked forward to. The first is street food.
16:43
It's double S. It's like the Trinidad classic
16:45
street food that we're known for.
16:47
So really what it is, it's 2:00. We call them Barra.
16:51
It's like a fried dough within sheet, a fried dough.
16:54
And then there's Curry chickpeas inside.
16:57
So you'll just like hold one in your hand.
16:59
Got the chickpeas and stuff. And then a lot of chutneys and
17:02
seasoning. So like a mango chutney, A
17:04
tamarind chutney sometimes, sometimes some homemade pepper
17:07
sauce. That was the first thing I was
17:08
like almost always the first thing that we got.
17:10
And my, my grandpa, you know, really all through his life and
17:14
my parents, my mom growing up, he had he was a, a vendor for
17:17
the double. So up the hill from the house
17:19
where they used to live, he would sell.
17:21
And so that was one of the things we looked forward to.
17:24
And then on the beach, one of Trinidad, what they're also well
17:27
known for is a bacon shark is another also similar fried
17:32
dough, but a little different, a little more fluffy and then
17:34
fried either Mako shark, typically, sometimes it'd be
17:37
catfish. And so it's pieces of fried
17:40
shark inside and the toppings, pineapple, it's cucumbers, it's
17:46
tomatoes, lettuce, onions and a bunch of the Chinese and sauces
17:50
as well. Those are two things we always
17:52
look forward to and, you know, surrounding food.
17:54
Yeah, food's so important. And now I'm getting like hungry.
17:58
And I've never tried like a Miko shark or, you know, but like all
18:02
the seasonings and like the sauces, like the spices that
18:05
you're putting on top of that just sound like amazing.
18:07
So I think that's also another big draw.
18:10
Like I remember when I was like living abroad in in Brazil, I
18:13
would like always miss very specific foods from, you know,
18:16
where I grew up. So that makes a lot of sense.
18:19
But you know, so the next question that I wanted to ask
18:22
about is like. Kind of maybe this one's.
18:24
Let me see if I can articulate it right.
18:27
Because, you know, the American dream and especially as we know
18:30
it from our like, parents generation, because my mom also
18:34
immigrated to the US from South Korea when she was like 16 years
18:38
old. And so I think it's often
18:40
characterized by the promise of like economic prosperity,
18:45
greater stability or yeah, just, you know, safety, right,
18:51
depending on where they're immigrating from.
18:53
But I think now, at least from like the current generation,
18:58
like what you're seeing in the students that you're supporting,
19:00
would you say that the American Dream has like shifted or has is
19:04
like kind of conceived a little bit differently?
19:07
I'm just wondering like, you know, there's always that
19:09
question of like, is the American Dream alive and well?
19:13
Like what are you seeing maybe from your own experience and
19:16
your understanding of it, what it was like for you kind of
19:19
navigating the college admissions process or are you
19:22
seeing anything change with students that you're currently
19:25
supporting? Like how drastic of a shift has
19:29
it been? Or like what are these students
19:31
really kind of like looking ahead towards in terms of like
19:34
hopeful hopefulness in terms of like, yeah, the the like the
19:38
promises that are are put out there in like, I don't know the
19:41
ether. I think it is the American Dream
19:46
is very much still alive for a lot of parents.
19:50
But I think students, once they get to high school and they
19:54
Start learning about, you know, the kind of social issues that
19:57
are going on, what the job market looks like.
19:59
I mean, even just looking at being able to buy a house or you
20:02
can afford groceries, these things weigh on young students,
20:07
you know, high schoolers and even younger, a lot more than
20:10
parents may think. And especially for immigrant
20:14
populations, right? Children of of immigrants,
20:17
children a lot of times of laborers.
20:19
They mature and understand a lot more than than students who
20:23
don't really have to think about those things, right?
20:25
They're not exposed to those things.
20:27
So what I'm seeing is that, yes, it's it's the dream is still
20:30
alive for parents that, you know, where we come to this
20:33
country with so many opportunities.
20:35
Maybe with that additional safety, like you said, depending
20:38
on where they're coming from and knowing, OK, my child's, you
20:42
know, can go to school here, they can go to college, they can
20:44
get a job. But I think that's also tied
20:46
into now to the value of higher education that a lot of students
20:49
are are contemplating and they're considering with the
20:53
rise of this generative AI, also the rise of some some job
20:56
insecurity with federal funding for certain positions that
21:00
students may want to go into. Young kids are thinking about a
21:04
lot of these things. Maybe they don't have coherent
21:06
thoughts about them yet. They don't know all of the
21:08
information, but they're seeing a lot of this information on
21:12
social media. I can go, you know, down to rob
21:14
a hole while it's not great. I can go down to rob a hole
21:17
while why it is great. But with social media
21:19
information is really accessible.
21:21
Students will see that. They'll see especially if
21:23
they're looking into careers that are really well known,
21:26
things like business, things like medicine, things like law.
21:29
And they're seeing the impact and what's going on and how
21:32
expensive it is as well. And if you're coming from a
21:35
family where you're making 20-30, maybe $40,000 a year, you
21:41
don't really see that as a realistic pathway for you
21:44
because 1, you need to get to college 1st.
21:46
And who's going to afford college?
21:47
And can I even get into a good college based on the grades?
21:51
Because I don't have that much time to commit to school because
21:53
I'm working with my parents or I have to help support the family.
21:56
So it, that's, yeah, a little bit, not necessarily very clear
22:01
of an answer, but the, the dream is very much alive and well for
22:04
the parents. But I think students are very
22:06
quickly realizing that it's, it's kind of that it's a dream,
22:09
it's a fantasy. And really the way that you look
22:13
where you come from in this country matters a lot.
22:15
And sure, there are tons and bouts of opportunities, but the
22:21
actual accessibility of those opportunities is the biggest
22:24
consideration that I don't really think as many students
22:28
you know from these backgrounds that that we're from have access
22:31
to that. Yeah.
22:33
Thank you so much, Neera. I mean, because you're like on
22:36
the ground, like listening to a lot of these students share, you
22:41
know, what, what these dreams are.
22:44
And then it's kind of like interwoven with their parents
22:47
dreams, but then also what their own goals are and what their
22:50
understanding is. When I think about like the word
22:52
dream, it could be like a really like wonderful dream or it could
22:55
be like a nightmare, you know, And it sounds like, you know,
22:58
for like a lot of the, you know, older generations, the dream was
23:05
kind of like laid out in terms of like a set path in terms of
23:10
like this job can lead to this opportunity can lead to this
23:13
opportunity. Of course, you know, the reality
23:16
of like having to work difficult jobs sometimes like very much
23:19
like long hours. That's that's not like a dream
23:22
that that could be thought of as like a nightmare.
23:24
But they had that like kind of like pathway.
23:27
It sounds like the dream, at least for, you know, younger
23:31
immigrants right now, is that there is no set pathway, right?
23:35
Because of the social media landscape.
23:37
It's kind of just distorted or like multiplied all of these
23:41
different steps and and it can be overwhelming.
23:44
And so in that case, it could be less so a dream and more like
23:51
just, I don't know, delusion. I'm just thinking about like the
23:54
alliteration dream delusion. What is it?
23:57
But you know, they still have to like advance forward, right?
24:00
They still have to take actions because of the support from
24:03
their their family. And so maybe that's like the
24:06
next question that I have. You know, family expectations
24:09
are, are, are a lot right? And is there ever a ceiling to
24:13
what those expectations can be when the stage is America,
24:17
right? I mean this the land of the free
24:20
and the promise of like economic prosperity and everything, you
24:22
know, become a millionaire or billionaire now.
24:25
But you know, for your own journey, the expectation for a
24:29
long time was to become a doctor.
24:32
And you said that while you really did enjoy science,
24:36
probably still do enjoy science, you had to make a difficult
24:40
decision to leave medical school after having spent one year,
24:45
right, starting this program. Maybe could you speak a little
24:48
bit about what was there any fallout from that decision Or
24:53
like, OK, so like, what was that 'cause it sounds like it was
24:56
like, you know, you living the American dream.
24:59
And then there was this kind of like fracturing that, you know,
25:03
both you and your parents felt. Could you maybe unpack a little
25:06
bit of like what was going on at that time?
25:08
Of course. So I actually want to answer a
25:10
slightly different question 1st and then get into it and not
25:13
necessarily answering the question but bringing in a piece
25:16
of the perspective. Is that something I realize a
25:19
lot of immigrant parents, especially those who aren't
25:23
highly educated formally and don't have those clear career
25:27
paths for themselves in the US, try to flip their socioeconomic
25:32
status in one generation. And so that pressure is
25:36
typically placed on the children, typically the older
25:38
children to get these very high paying jobs to now, you know,
25:42
we're going from poverty to, you know, upper middle class,
25:46
potentially even high class incomes and trying to just, you
25:50
know, beeline it straight to success and high income.
25:54
And I think that's where a lot of the the doctor engineer
25:56
expectation comes from. It's because these are well
25:58
known careers, They're high paying careers and trying to
26:02
switch that social status in that one generation instead of
26:05
working up towards it through multiple generations.
26:07
I think my parents fell into that same thing.
26:09
They heard a lot from family as well of, you know, this is what
26:12
you have to do. You have to do these things to
26:14
be successful. And so for them, they didn't
26:16
think they had, they could do it at the ages that they were at.
26:19
So then, OK, my child can now do this.
26:21
That's why I came here to allow them these opportunities.
26:25
I think a lot of that was really the, the mind space that my
26:29
parents were coming from. And so that shapes the way that
26:33
we had conversations. So now I'll get into your actual
26:35
question. So when I, when I started Med
26:38
school and I moved, I think when I had gotten into Med school, I
26:42
had already had a lot of these doubts, but I got in and was
26:46
like the culmination of all the hard work I had done for, you
26:48
know, 12 plus years. And so it was, I was blinded a
26:52
little bit by that excitement. And I had gotten a small
26:54
scholarship to attend. It's like, Oh yeah, this is so
26:56
amazing. And so they're going now and I'm
26:59
excited to meet people. I'm excited to start, you know,
27:01
my medical education. I started the classes.
27:06
It's like, OK, this is hard, but it's Med school.
27:07
It's hard for anybody, right? And those it's not hard for.
27:10
I don't know, you're crazy, but it, it's hard.
27:13
And so that piece of it, I'm not you.
27:16
I'm not a stranger to hard work. And that was the piece of it
27:21
that, you know, I'm telling my parents, I'm really struggling.
27:24
You know, this is really hard for me.
27:26
I'm not able to do well. And they're thinking that no,
27:30
because it's hard. I want to give up because it's
27:33
difficult. And that's not the case.
27:35
It took a lot of conversations to explain to them, yes, it's
27:39
hard. It's not that I don't want to do
27:42
it because it's hard. I don't want to do it, and
27:45
that's making it even harder than it would be.
27:48
Everyone thinks it's hard. All my friends think it's hard,
27:50
right? We're studying till 2:00 AM
27:52
sometimes. We're doing these study groups.
27:54
We're in class for 10 hours of the day.
27:56
It's difficult. It's a lot of content
27:58
information to learn, so it's hard for everyone.
28:01
But because I don't generally want to be here and do this,
28:04
it's making it that much harder for me.
28:06
And it took, you know, 567 conversations of the fall of my
28:10
first year to just even get that mindset across to them.
28:14
But they also, you know, shared with me, you've done all this
28:17
whole hard work. You've gotten here, you know,
28:19
try to see it through. Give yourself some more time.
28:21
It's only been a few months. And so that part of the
28:24
conversation was also helpful. That OK, you know, you're right,
28:27
I am struggling now, but I haven't given my chance or
28:30
myself that strong chance to get more involved in the, the
28:34
atmosphere, to join as many organizations to do a little bit
28:38
more work and research. So let me, you know, I'm here.
28:40
Let me make use of where I'm where I am.
28:44
And so in the first, my Med school was broken up in the
28:48
trimesters. So in that first trimester in
28:50
the fall, that's where all the struggles happening, the
28:52
initial, this really sucks having these hard conversations
28:56
and a little snippet that's added in there is that my, my
28:59
girlfriend at the time, she's now my wife.
29:01
So we're still together, but she was my girlfriend at the time,
29:04
started working in EOF at another institution in New
29:09
Jersey, but working on the programming side with students.
29:12
And she'd tell me about what she's doing and I told her, I
29:16
said, I feel like you're living my life.
29:17
And that when she had told me about her job and I'm learning
29:21
about what she's doing, that's when it really, really clicked
29:24
that that is what I want to do. I don't want to do medicine.
29:27
But you know, going back to the kind of the main theme with my
29:30
parents. So second trimester now for
29:32
school, I'm getting involved. I'm doing really well in
29:35
classes. I got AE board leadership
29:38
position for the medical educators group.
29:40
I'm kind of finding the niche that I want to go into, really
29:43
interested in Women's Health, reproductive health and going
29:47
down that path. I'm like, OK, this is, it's
29:49
feeling pretty good. I'm in a groove now.
29:51
I think I can see this through. And now we're kind of into the,
29:54
into the spring, into the third trimester.
29:56
And I'm, I'm having these thoughts again that this sucks.
29:58
I don't want to do this. I'm not having a good time.
30:01
So now I bring it back up to my parents.
30:03
This is after three months of me not really saying much.
30:05
They're thinking I'm fine. Now they say, hey guys, I don't
30:08
want to do this. I really, really don't.
30:10
I've talked to my friends and when I asked them, you know, how
30:13
do you know you want to do this or why are you doing medicine?
30:15
And they say so. I can't see myself as anything
30:17
else but a doctor. And to me, like, I can see
30:19
myself as a lot of other things than a doctor.
30:22
And so that too started shaping in a conversation.
30:26
At one point, my dad just got really upset and kind of stopped
30:28
talking to me about it. He's like, do whatever you want
30:31
to do. I'm just angry.
30:32
And my mom, you know, they're, they're having their own
30:35
challenges with life and whatever.
30:37
And she, I think got to a point too.
30:39
It's like I, we were talking about this going in circles, you
30:42
know, make the decision that you want to make kind of thing.
30:45
And so that was hard. It felt like, yes, I had some
30:47
support, but they were really unhappy about it.
30:50
And you know, after I, I said, OK, I'm not going to just fully
30:53
withdraw. I still have the opportunity to
30:55
go back. But let me take a year.
30:57
It's just one year of life. Let me take the leave of
30:59
absence, try something else. I can still go back.
31:02
I'm not officially withdrawing, so it's still an option.
31:05
But I don't want to get to 4th year Med school.
31:08
I'm not going into residency. And I still feel like this.
31:11
Now I'm several $100,000 in debt and still unhappy.
31:14
And at that point, I'm going to feel even more stuck and like I
31:17
don't have an option. So I think that conversation
31:20
that really helped them understand.
31:22
OK, you know, yeah, she's, she's just taking a chance, still
31:25
exploring, giving herself a little bit of time and then
31:28
knowing Med school was still an option if I wanted to go back,
31:31
kind of appease them a little bit.
31:34
So I was that it was a lot of lot of difficulty.
31:37
And I think my dad, at one point he had mentioned, you know, my
31:40
dream for you was to, you know, you'd be a doctor.
31:43
And then we we can like go back to Trinidad and, you know, fund
31:46
the school or hospital for students.
31:48
I'm like, Dad, do you know how much money that takes to do
31:51
those things? It's not just, you know, a
31:53
doctor's salary that maybe can happen in 20 years.
31:57
And I understand from him he wants to go back because he grew
32:01
up in extreme poverty in Trinidad.
32:04
And so he wanted to give back to his culture and his community.
32:09
And to me, it's funny, I didn't even say this thing.
32:13
My mom told this to him after I had started working at TCNJ.
32:16
She told me about this conversation she had with my
32:18
dad. And she mentioned to him,
32:21
because she knew what I did for work, he didn't really know that
32:24
much. And she told him, you know,
32:26
nearest still changing lives, not in the way that you thought
32:29
she was going to, but she's still, she's giving these
32:32
students these access and these opportunities.
32:34
She's the one who can admit them into school, who can give them,
32:37
you know, this fund, give them these opportunities to still
32:40
pursue higher Ed. Sure.
32:41
She's not literally physically saving their lives in a
32:44
hospital, but she is still changing lives from communities.
32:48
And it's maybe not, you know, back in our home country, but
32:51
still making an impact. And when my mom told me that
32:53
conversation and she's sharing what she told my dad, that's how
32:57
I knew she fully internalized why I made the decision.
33:01
So that's what I'm like, good. My mom got it.
33:03
My dad's my dad. You know, we have a rocky
33:05
relationship, but I think he he's gotten over 2 and going to
33:09
Harvard doesn't hurt, right? Getting my masters from Harvard
33:12
absolutely doesn't hurt. He's like, OK.
33:13
And I get. So that was again a long answer
33:17
to your question, but I want to give you a lot more context too.
33:21
No, I mean, I appreciate you sharing that context.
33:23
And the long answer is the the only answer, right, to properly
33:27
understand what was really taking place, because that, that
33:30
sounded like an incredibly difficult conversation to have
33:34
one that was built up over, you know, years and years and years,
33:38
right of expectation. And, and it, it was very
33:42
strategic of you. I had to take like a, a gap year
33:44
or like the leave of absence. And and then it was very wise as
33:47
well, right, to kind of like, really like listen to that like
33:51
gut feeling that you had that like, I might be something like
33:55
more than just a doctor, right? Which is hard to think about,
33:58
right? Because they're like a doctor's
34:00
the pinnacle. Like it's the best.
34:01
I'm like, well, it's a career, right?
34:04
It's you, you are suited to a specific career and you have to,
34:07
I mean, especially if you're investing that much time and
34:10
money into it, really be committed to it.
34:12
And so how you went about finding your own niche in
34:17
college admissions, higher Ed. I think it was, it's great that
34:22
your parents were especially your mom was able to really
34:25
understand the kind of like impact that you make on other
34:28
people's lives. And then the whole thing about
34:30
your your father's story about wanting to kind of start a
34:33
school in Trinidad and Tobago, like, yeah, it's so important.
34:37
I think we can like, ride that tendency of like, out of like,
34:41
you know, like, what is it? Filial piety, right?
34:44
Like I want to do everything I can, right, to give back and
34:48
like, you know, like make sure I do right by my parents, but not
34:53
so much that you're just living their life, right.
34:56
And I think that's the struggle with a lot of like immigrant
34:58
families. Is that what is that balance
35:00
between like you and your narrative and them and their
35:03
narrative, because both are, you know, equal value, right?
35:08
But I mean, when you shared about your, your, your father
35:11
having experienced extreme poverty growing up, it's so easy
35:16
to think, wow, like he had a much tougher life, right?
35:20
His there's something about his life that I need to really pay
35:23
attention to, But not at the detriment of your own life for
35:28
him. And again, I say that because my
35:30
mom also, you know, she speaks about growing up in abject
35:33
poverty, like, you know, 10 other brothers and sisters, not
35:37
enough food on a farm on the coast of Korea.
35:39
And I'm just like, I have no idea what that means.
35:42
I would, you know, I, I, I always think back like when I
35:46
was like in middle school that like, I would want, you know, I
35:49
was begging for like an Xbox and my mom's like, you know, like,
35:52
do you know what I got for Christmas?
35:54
I got like a little piece of hard candy that they hit with a
35:56
hammer. And it was like a, a fragment of
35:59
that because it had to be shared.
36:01
And then here I was a little brat wanting an Xbox, though
36:04
totally different. You know, I'm like, how do I
36:06
empathize with that? But, you know, I think as we get
36:09
older and we have those tough conversations with their
36:11
parents, inevitably we come to realize that.
36:15
Yeah, our our journeys are, are connected, but they're often
36:21
different directions and there's a lot that we we're doing that
36:24
will make them proud. It's not just about the money or
36:27
the prestige. But you know, the next question
36:30
that I wanted to ask you about is more, you know, to the topic
36:33
of this podcast, global citizenship.
36:36
So, you know, some people might, you know, like listening to your
36:40
story right now think, oh, wow, Nir is Nir is totally a global
36:43
citizen because she grew up in one country.
36:46
And then, I mean, she's born in one country and then grew up in
36:48
another and probably interacts with a lot of different ethnic
36:51
backgrounds. But is there something more to
36:54
this idea of like being a global citizen that maybe you can speak
36:58
to because, you know, you. Yeah, it, it sounds like, you
37:03
know, your perspective on like really supporting students in
37:08
like low income minority groups. It's, it's not to say it's only
37:12
one particular nationality or, you know, there's differences,
37:15
right, that abound with each of their stories.
37:17
And you're, you're trying to help them, you know, gain access
37:20
to great school. So what is it about like this
37:25
topic of global citizenship that maybe like resonates with you?
37:29
Or is it something that you consider in the work that you're
37:32
doing right now with your students?
37:35
Is it something that you've you've heard about, you know,
37:37
growing up at any point? I'm just curious about like
37:40
what's like the initial touch point and then kind of where,
37:43
where does that resonate with you at this current moment?
37:46
Yeah. So I think for me when I think
37:48
about global citizenship and what it is, I probably didn't
37:53
really hear the term until post college.
37:56
I don't really think ever heard it that much in college
37:59
explicitly stated like that, but as I learned more about the
38:02
actual term was probably in Med school or maybe even at Harvard
38:06
when I first actually heard it format formally, you know, said
38:10
as global citizen. But thinking back to just
38:13
experiences work, things that I I've been taught, I think about
38:16
global citizenship. What's the themes that are
38:19
really wrapped up in there is it's not just going to other
38:23
countries and traveling and seeing the world, right?
38:25
That's just, you know, maybe being like culturally exposed to
38:28
a lot of different places, but really being a global citizen,
38:31
you can be one having never left the US, right?
38:34
So it's being educated about others experiences, you know, in
38:38
different countries, understanding different types of
38:40
cultures. Maybe you don't need to know the
38:43
basis or the roots behind certain traditions and, and you
38:47
know, religious beliefs and things like that.
38:49
But just knowing that there are these differences, wanting to
38:52
know a little bit more about them, knowing what people do to
38:54
celebrate and how they interact with the world's.
38:58
I mean, I mentioned Trinidad's really communalistic versus the
39:01
US is individualistic. Those subtle differences between
39:04
cultures and communities. Knowing those and also then
39:08
bringing that into the work that you do and how you interact with
39:14
other people, just recognizing, you know, even in the same same
39:18
town, same school, same small environment, people have these
39:21
vastly different backgrounds from, you know, different
39:24
countries. They have different ancestry,
39:26
they have different home cultures.
39:28
Maybe they are from another country or some great, great,
39:30
great grandparents are from another country.
39:32
But all of that still impacts the type of values that they
39:35
have. And so when I, when I really
39:37
think about global citizenship, it's about learning about
39:41
different cultures and people. It's having that respect and
39:45
openness to know that there are differences and recognize that
39:49
you know each person's perspective on the world because
39:53
of how they were socialized and how they grew up is unique.
39:57
And it's also just as valuable as yours.
40:00
You may have certain beliefs that you're very strong and held
40:02
on to, but you shouldn't think someone else's.
40:06
Maybe you think it's wrong, right?
40:07
But you're not going to actively disrespect them because of it.
40:11
And I think. The only time it becomes an
40:13
issue is if your beliefs are actively targeting and
40:17
disrespecting other people's. But if it's just a difference of
40:20
belief, difference of opinion, difference of approach, then
40:23
it's OK be able to have respectful conversations about
40:26
differences. Also a lot of things I can think
40:30
about empathy, I think about compassion for others.
40:32
I think about openness to communication, being able to
40:38
listen and just hear about others.
40:41
Those are the kind of themes and things that I think about when I
40:43
hear global citizenship. For me, I, I think two piece of
40:48
it is a lot of education, which honestly, I'm not as well
40:51
educated about some moral topics that I I want to be.
40:54
And that's just me right now making excuse.
40:56
I just haven't made as much time for it.
40:58
But that's part of it too, is also knowing the bad things that
41:01
are going on in the world and just understanding how we have
41:04
we can play a role in that. Even if we're not these grand
41:07
politicians and being in high positions of power, there's
41:09
still things that we can do to enact positive change in the
41:12
world and make contributions to things that are that we see is
41:16
wrong. So that's kind of overall the
41:19
things that I think about global citizenship and what it means.
41:22
Amazing, right? I I think, well, to be able to,
41:26
to convey that and, and also you, you're saying that kind of
41:30
quite transparently you're like, I think I only heard this
41:32
concept like recently, like, you know, in Med school or like, or
41:36
at the start of like, you know, Harvard.
41:38
So that's probably like what, 2-3 years ago.
41:41
But but you know, you're drawing from your own experiences,
41:45
right? And what kind of like makes
41:47
sense in terms of how maybe your own formation kind of like LED
41:52
you to like, yeah, like really think about like, Oh yeah, these
41:55
differences, right. And, and the, the community that
41:58
I'm in, what does that mean? What about my own like, kind of
42:03
like trips, you know, back back to Trinidad and Tobago and like,
42:07
what is what's going on with the different traditions and yeah,
42:11
the celebrations part of it. And yeah, education, awareness.
42:17
It's not to say like, oh, you need to like, like listen to the
42:21
newsreel non-stop because that that's actually not healthy
42:24
either, because it's just too overwhelming.
42:27
But having a concern for people living in far off places
42:32
because, you know, there's the sense that like they're they're
42:35
still figuring out themselves. They have their own doubts.
42:38
They're humans. And yet the the challenges that
42:42
they're experiencing, like how, how could you possibly fathom
42:46
what a war-torn country really is if that's not been your
42:49
experience, right? And yeah, rural versus urban and
42:54
probably just numerous things, but it's having that curiosity
42:58
that I think is really important.
43:00
But it doesn't, I don't think it just comes about all of a
43:04
sudden, right? I mean, we have so many
43:06
influences in our lives, like parents, our immediate like
43:10
community, different groups that we frequent and yeah, you know,
43:15
schools that we attend. But I'm curious because like in
43:19
terms of like what you've experienced growing up in New
43:22
Jersey, did you say that there was any particular individual or
43:30
you know, again, group association that made a larger
43:34
impact on how you see these differences, right?
43:38
How you approach them like, you know, to see them as something
43:41
more positive than rather negative?
43:43
Like is there any someone or group that comes to mind?
43:48
I don't, I don't have a specific thing in mind because I think
43:52
New Jersey, NJ, like you said earlier on, it's a very
43:55
ethnically diverse place. There's a very high Caribbean
43:58
culture and population in New Jersey.
44:01
There's a lot of different immigrants from different, you
44:04
know, countries here. That's what especially where I
44:06
grew up as well, the high school that I went to, I don't really
44:09
think we had a certain minority or majority group where it was a
44:13
really diverse high school. I had friends from, you know,
44:15
kind of all different backgrounds.
44:17
And so to me, that experience that I had growing up, I saw a
44:21
lot of people that looked really different from me.
44:22
It was very normal to me. I was used to it.
44:25
I had friends from, you know, all different races and we had
44:28
different backgrounds. Some of us were immigrants, some
44:31
of us were not. Some were higher income than
44:33
others. It's like being exposed to just
44:36
those differences, not just in culture, but socioeconomic
44:40
status as well. And when people talk about
44:42
diversity, a lot of that times they only think about race,
44:44
ethnicity, but it's also political, you know,
44:47
affiliation, it's religious affiliation, socioeconomic
44:49
class, you know, gender and sexuality.
44:53
And so all of that really was very, very diverse in every
44:56
sense of the word where I grew up.
44:59
So I can't really pinpoint one thing specifically.
45:01
I think more so when I started to recognize differences and
45:06
really see those is when I got to college.
45:09
That's when I started to really understand and value.
45:13
So I'm a citizen. I was naturalized and my parents
45:16
came up to the US. My dad had his papers filed a
45:19
long time ago. He got approved.
45:21
My mom took and him took the exam and I got naturalized
45:24
because I was young enough. I always knew I was a citizen.
45:27
It was never a big deal to me. It's like, OK, whatever.
45:30
A lot of my family are not citizens as well.
45:32
I have, you know, some family who are still undocumented.
45:37
But now or right now, when the being in college, I really
45:43
started to recognize the value of that citizenship when I met
45:47
friends who were still very diverse, but they themselves
45:51
were, they were documented immigrants, but didn't really
45:55
have a paperwork official. You know, they weren't citizens.
46:00
They were really just here on they were either, Oh my gosh,
46:03
I'm completely they were DACA students.
46:05
A lot of them maybe didn't have some of these supports.
46:07
So I started understanding the value of that.
46:10
Friends would talk about some of the things they're struggling
46:12
with. And I started to see that with
46:14
my own extended family. And so I think they really
46:17
helped me learn a lot more being separated from that really
46:20
positive environment I had growing up, not really seeing a
46:24
lot of that negativity and not really a lot of racism or really
46:27
classism or anything like that. I started to see that in college
46:30
and then I started to appreciate what I had growing up.
46:34
And then so, yeah, I think in college, I, I got really angry
46:37
about a lot of things. I rejected religion for a lot of
46:41
it. I would.
46:42
Yeah. I really, really valued and
46:44
appreciated being a citizen. I was mad at my parents bringing
46:46
me to this country. It's like, why am I here?
46:50
So, you know, this is 2016 election and a lot of things
46:53
changed at that time too. So that was like not as much of
46:58
a positive answer to your question, But that's me kind of
47:01
learning a little bit more about just citizenship in general, but
47:05
also just interacting with the world and different types of
47:08
people in the community I grew up in.
47:09
And so I'm, I'm very thankful for for what I had growing up
47:13
and it and I really felt like an outsider because everyone was
47:16
different and we all appreciated it.
47:19
Totally No, no, I, I, I appreciate, I didn't think that
47:21
answer was negative at all. Actually, I think perfectly
47:26
justified in the kind of different tensions, right?
47:29
Kind of pulling against you the exposure to like one kind of
47:33
form of your community, right? Growing up in New Jersey
47:37
supposed to in college as opposed to medical school and
47:41
and then, you know, all these other different spheres that
47:44
you, you kind of navigated because it's good to see like
47:48
those contrasts or it helps you gain that appreciation, that
47:53
perspective, and then grow your empathy, right?
47:56
Because, you know, valuing what you have, where you, you've come
48:00
from, where your parents have come from.
48:02
And yeah. And I think that being able to
48:08
embrace complexities of, of that struggle allows you to not only
48:14
be resilient, but also realize that like, oh, wow, I've been,
48:19
you know, like whether you kind of came across the term global
48:24
citizen recently or not, all of those kind of like, like
48:28
exposures, like you were talking about the engagements, the
48:31
questions, the doubts, all of that can be very useful and kind
48:35
of like solidifying your own understanding of like, oh, yeah,
48:38
this is, yeah, I could get behind this.
48:40
This is something that I think might be helpful, like language
48:48
right around like where what is next, right?
48:52
Because like the the political situation has only intensified,
48:55
at least in the US, right? And a lot of other places too.
48:59
But there's, there's just so much about like not wanting to
49:03
embrace certain differences that, yeah, is becoming very
49:09
like kind of demonized, right? Like kind of vilified.
49:12
And yet, as you've shared, right, all of that is kind of
49:15
like this like beautiful totality of like, but yeah, this
49:18
is kind of what let what's led me to be who I am and, and
49:23
allowed you to see a lot of beauty in the the, you know,
49:26
communities that were quite different from yours.
49:28
So all of that is to say, I'm like, you've always been a
49:31
global citizen era and, and I appreciate you sharing so much
49:35
of like the context around like what led you to to be who you
49:39
are and like make the decisions that you've made very difficult
49:42
decisions. But ultimately it sounds like
49:45
you're in a profession that you, you are really like excited
49:50
about that you, you know, you're making impact and you're hopeful
49:54
about not only the students that you're serving, but even for
49:57
yourself, right? Still kind of walking down this,
50:00
this new path that I'm sure your parents already right, you've
50:04
you've said are taking note of like, wow, This is why you're
50:07
doing it. But they probably don't even
50:10
realize like now 5-10 years later, what that actually is
50:14
going to reveal. So I've got a lot of hope it's
50:17
going to be even better. But yeah, so I, I wanted, you
50:20
know, we're kind of coming up to the end of our, our conversation
50:23
and really appreciate you, Nera, for, for sharing so much of
50:27
your, your story, you know, being vulnerable as well to
50:30
share some of like stuff, especially with like your, your
50:33
parents. And you know, the the last
50:36
question is recommendation if you have one for like either
50:40
book, movie, anything. OK, well, actually I have two
50:43
recommendations. So first one talked about this
50:47
briefly before is going to be Avatar the Last Airbender.
50:49
I think especially the show there, right?
50:52
It's marketed as a kids show, but there are a lot of themes of
50:57
or there's war in there, there's loss, there's newfound
51:00
community, There's so many things that you can actually
51:03
learn and relate to. There's growth arcs, redemption
51:05
arcs in the show. And so seeing beyond just at
51:08
being a cartoon, there's a lot of really good themes in there
51:10
that I think on the theme of global citizenship, you could
51:13
actually learn a lot from the show.
51:15
The second recommendation, it's actually a book that was
51:18
recommended to me recently after a conversation with my boss.
51:22
It's called Sapiens. And so it's really just about
51:24
the kind of history of the development of humans a little
51:29
bit more from a evolution anthropology perspective.
51:32
But I think learning that if someone is interested and open
51:35
to it can help you recognize how connected we all are and really
51:40
how we develop just as a species.
51:43
So one that's a little more like personal light hearted and then
51:46
a recommendation. It's a little more academic, a
51:48
little more based in, you know, some themes that people might
51:50
enjoy. Amazing.
51:53
Thank you so much, Neera. I've I've actually seen Avatar
51:56
the Last Airbender multiple times, so definitely great show.
52:02
And then Sapiens, yeah, definitely gives you that like
52:03
kind of bigger picture, like higher vantage point as far as
52:08
just where humans have been and then hopefully understanding
52:12
where it's all going towards. So great recommendations and
52:16
great conversation. I thank you so much, Neera.
52:19
I wanted to give the last word to you if you have like a just
52:22
like a final send off or final thought as we're just wrapping
52:25
up this conversation about, you know, your journey and global
52:29
citizenship. Yeah, I think I would probably
52:32
say, you know, really just to wrap up that for everyone
52:37
listening, you know, whoever is going to take a look at this,
52:39
that right, we're we're all part of this world, you know, we're
52:44
all parts of certain communities and cultures.
52:46
But at the end of the day, yeah, Earth's a miracle or the only
52:50
planet or all those kind of like sciencey big things.
52:53
But everyone has a responsibility to the planet as
52:59
a environment, but also to the planet as in the peoples that
53:03
inhabit it. And that doesn't mean you have
53:06
to make huge political changes and be part of every advocacy or
53:11
protest, you know, event that's happening.
53:14
But making those small changes daily in your life to be more
53:17
educated and involved, maybe have difficult conversations
53:21
with some family members that you may not want to have.
53:24
And just making small contributions to the world, even
53:27
to one person, is contributing to making it a better place.
53:30
So taking that kind of civic responsibility to to people and
53:35
to the world, if everyone just takes a little bit of their
53:37
responsibility, we'll all kind of be in a better place.