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I Choose ... to Advocate for My Health with Dr. Kelly Casperson · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi, everyone,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: welcome back to I Choose Me, the podcast where we
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: talk about the choices we make and today how they'll
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: help us live longer and stronger. Thanks to modern medicine
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and technology, we are living decades beyond our ovaries, and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: this means we are aging well beyond menopause, which requires
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: intention and knowledge. My guest, doctor Kelly Casperson, a urologist
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  Speaker 1: and an author, is here to clear up some myths,
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  Speaker 1: talk symptoms and stigma, and show us how choosing ourselves
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  Speaker 1: in this stage of life can mean thriving into our eighties,
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  Speaker 1: nineties and beyond. I'm very glad to have you here. Finally,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: thank you for having I've been waiting. I've been waiting
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  Speaker 1: for this moment. Your book is out now, which is
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  Speaker 1: very exciting because everybody needs more information. Yeah, and I've
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  Speaker 1: had a few of your cohorts, your peers, probably some
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: people that you work with I know, but talking about menopause,
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  Speaker 1: and there's I don't think there's just enough conversation around it.
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  Speaker 1: You can never have to make.
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  Speaker 2: No, it's like fifty percent of the population of the world,
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  Speaker 2: So like everybody needs to know about this, right, I
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  Speaker 2: mean not a niche or it's like the largest niche ever.
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  Speaker 1: And it's such a cool time, don't you feel like
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  Speaker 1: because we're on this precipice, like we're over the kind
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  Speaker 1: of over the tip of the mountain.
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  Speaker 2: The Yeah, like you know, it's like we've crested even
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  Speaker 2: three years ago because I've been doing this now, Like
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  Speaker 2: my podcast and I was not talking about menopause at
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  Speaker 2: the beginning of my podcast is like almost six years old,
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  Speaker 2: and like even three years ago people are like, I
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  Speaker 2: don't know, let's not talk about it. And now everybody's
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  Speaker 2: like I can't get enough of this topic. And so
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  Speaker 2: it's moved so fast it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.
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  Speaker 1: I've been kind of on the er coaster with it since.
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  Speaker 1: And I was like in perimenopause for sure, right when
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  Speaker 1: it started happening, and I was like, wait, you're explaining
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  Speaker 1: all my symptoms. Now everything's starting to make sense. Oh
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know about perimenopause.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Oh Bddy thinks there's something magical about like
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  Speaker 2: a period, like oh, you're having periods, You're still fine,
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  Speaker 2: And it's like no, no, no, no, no, that's like the
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  Speaker 2: event that's happening that like ends in the result of
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  Speaker 2: no periods. Yes, right, So it's like a whole the
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  Speaker 2: whole thing. And I think that, you know, the gen
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  Speaker 2: X is really like taking this conversation. And now the
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  Speaker 2: millennials are coming in on the perimenopause conversation. Oh, you're
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  Speaker 2: seeing this like groundful of energy come from these different groups.
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  Speaker 2: Because and the boomers, God bless them, they're pissed because
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  Speaker 2: if they're educated and paying attention, they're in the piss
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  Speaker 2: stage because they're like we were fifty twenty years ago
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  Speaker 2: when this when the iron creat dropped off hormones.
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  Speaker 1: So wow, I have my daughter called me last night
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  Speaker 1: a geriatric millennial. How do you feel about that?
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  Speaker 2: I like, e Liza Sleschinger, the comedian who calls it
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  Speaker 2: elder millennial.
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  Speaker 1: I'm an elder. That's better than Jerry.
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  Speaker 2: It's way better.
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  Speaker 1: But even though when you're pregnant and you have a
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  Speaker 1: pregnancy has a certain age, they call you a geriatric yea.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a direct prostate yea.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, geez, well they.
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  Speaker 2: Used to go before genital urinary cinem menopause, which you
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: can get into, which affects pelvis's postmenopause. In the eighties,
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  Speaker 2: it was called the senile vagina in legitimate medical papers,
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  Speaker 2: senile vagina. So we've come a long way.
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  Speaker 1: We come a long way. Wow, I wonder where we're
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  Speaker 1: going to be in three more years. Modern medicine and technology,
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  Speaker 1: we're sort of living years now beyond the functioning over
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  Speaker 1: ease in our bodies. So in order to be free
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  Speaker 1: of disease, it takes some intention. From your point of view,
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  Speaker 1: tell me why does aging well matter? Oh?
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  Speaker 2: Man, Well, I think we're especially going back to like
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  Speaker 2: the gen X and why we're so passionate about this
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  Speaker 2: project is like the gen xers are taking care of
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  Speaker 2: the people who are maybe aging not well. Right, So
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  Speaker 2: we're actually looking and taking care of those people, and
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  Speaker 2: we're like, is there a different way? And we're starting
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  Speaker 2: It's pretty simple to understand, Like you don't just get
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  Speaker 2: there overnight, right, what we do now matters. So I
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  Speaker 2: think we're seeing it done poorly, and we're seeing it
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  Speaker 2: done on a massive scale that we've never seen before.
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  Speaker 2: Like everybody's got the great grandma who lived till ninety,
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  Speaker 2: but like as a society, we're not We've never aged
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  Speaker 2: as a society before on this massive level. So we're like,
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  Speaker 2: you know, when I talked to women in clinic, I'm like,
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  Speaker 2: what do you want to be doing when you're seventy three?
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  Speaker 2: And it gets people thinking of like what you do
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  Speaker 2: right now actually matters for when you can't be I mean,
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  Speaker 2: you can be seventy three and start lifting weights, you
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  Speaker 2: absolutely can, but like bonus if you start now, because
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  Speaker 2: you're like, I just want to maintain this instead of
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  Speaker 2: have to make up for lost time.
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  Speaker 1: I was just to lunch yesterday actually with a ninety
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  Speaker 1: four year old women, so cool, and her name happens
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  Speaker 1: to feed our Breeden name dropping, but it was, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I just love her so much, and so I got
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  Speaker 1: to catch up with her yesterday and I asked her,
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  Speaker 1: you know, tell me all your sets, and she said,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I worked. I exercise at ninety four. I
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  Speaker 1: don't really want to, but I do just to stay strong.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: She's the most able, bodied, well functioning brain, all the
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  Speaker 1: cylinders roaring.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think it's, you know, a rebrand for
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  Speaker 2: lack of better words of what aging is, because we
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  Speaker 2: put aging with fraility together, like fraility is an option yeah,
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  Speaker 2: aging well is an option and really like breaking those
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  Speaker 2: two things apart to be like I mean, I've I
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  Speaker 2: watch like my cat videos on the internet or like
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  Speaker 2: the eighty four year olds who can like bench press
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  Speaker 2: one hundred pounds right, Like I will watch those like
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  Speaker 2: cat videos and I gotta get on that yours, right,
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  Speaker 2: and like I love it. And so I'm like this
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  Speaker 2: is catching on and fraility is not inevitable, but it's
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  Speaker 2: so pervasive in our society that really is inevitable that
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  Speaker 2: it's like, no, we don't.
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  Speaker 1: We don't. I love how you frame that frailty. Fraility. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: fraility is an option.
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  Speaker 2: It's an option. We don't we don't want to be frail.
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  Speaker 2: We want to be strong. But aging doesn't always mean fraility. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: like the ninety four year olds. So in my clinic,
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  Speaker 2: I alays the people who've been married for fifty years
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  Speaker 2: and the people who are over ninety, Like my whole
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  Speaker 2: career now, I'm always like, tell me your secret, give
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  Speaker 2: me your one secret for the longevity for.
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  Speaker 1: The marriage, one secret, please, And the.
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  Speaker 2: One secret of the ninety year olds, they always say,
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  Speaker 2: just keep moving, just keep moving, don't stop moving. Just
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  Speaker 2: keep moving like that's universally the sci Yeah. Yeah. And
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  Speaker 2: the married people usually they say, don't take things so seriously.
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  Speaker 2: Usually the guy will be like she's usually right, right,
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  Speaker 2: it is like you know, I think what that means
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  Speaker 2: is like they've gotten to the point where it's like
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  Speaker 2: they don't argue about everything all the time, like it's
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  Speaker 2: not worth it. Right. So I'm like, those are my
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  Speaker 2: tips from the people who are doing longevity very well.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, in relationship and otherwise.
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  Speaker 2: Because then the doctor like you see people age every
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  Speaker 2: single day, like twenty times a day, right, And so
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  Speaker 2: it's like, I see, I had a couple come in
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  Speaker 2: they were like forty eight and they're like, well, doc,
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  Speaker 2: if you just tell us like we're too old for
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  Speaker 2: sex now and this is just how it is. And
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, you, guys, I had seventy four year old
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  Speaker 2: in here like two hours ago. They're having sex all
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  Speaker 2: the time. It's the best sex they've ever had. Can't
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  Speaker 2: keep their hands, you can't keep their hands off each other.
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  Speaker 2: Like yes, they need some pharmaceutical assistance, but like they
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  Speaker 2: love what they're doing, right, And these for eight year
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  Speaker 2: olds were like what because they think, like you know,
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  Speaker 2: if you just tell us we're old and this is
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  Speaker 2: all there is.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, I know it's such a perception
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  Speaker 1: that it's such a perception. You know, at a certain age,
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  Speaker 1: we just sort of don't have sex anymore. But that's
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  Speaker 1: not true.
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  Speaker 2: No, it's not.
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  Speaker 1: Although I don't want to picture my mom having sex,
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  Speaker 1: but we don't want to picture.
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  Speaker 3: That, but we want to excitt now that my kids
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  Speaker 3: want to picture, right, Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well, you know, a society has this
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  Speaker 2: perception of who's allowed to be sexual. Right, so even
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  Speaker 2: there's a societal bias against old people being sexual, like, right,
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  Speaker 2: who's permitted? Right?
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  Speaker 3: Like I just said, I don't want to see that, right, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: And it's like, oh no, there's plenty of sex, like
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  Speaker 3: they you know, the sexually transmitted infections are actually quite
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  Speaker 3: common in nursing homes because they're like, we don't worry about.
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  Speaker 2: Pregnancy, right. It's like, but you do have to protect
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  Speaker 2: yourself and you know, be as safe as possible because
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  Speaker 2: you guys are getting it on a lot.
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  Speaker 1: They're hooking it up.
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  Speaker 2: I love that.
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  Speaker 1: I gotta get my mom in one of those places. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so you have an interesting take on perry and menopause.
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  Speaker 1: Because you are a urologist, So how does your perspective
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  Speaker 1: differ from say, just a dynacologist, yes or yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So I mean for people who don't know who are listening,
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  Speaker 2: a urologist is a surgeon of the genital urinary system.
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  Speaker 2: So think kidney stones, think prostate, think bladder, think all
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: gender genitals. That's what we do. And so I'm already
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  Speaker 2: very comfortable with giving men totosterone when they have lotustosterone,
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  Speaker 2: and giving men viagra and helping them out with directions
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  Speaker 2: when they have sexual issues. That's how we're trained. It's
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  Speaker 2: very normal. That's our job, right, And so what became
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  Speaker 2: apparent to me in the female sexual health and the
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  Speaker 2: female hormones is we've got these two groups of people,
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  Speaker 2: different genders. And the guy comes in and he's like, Doc,
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  Speaker 2: I just don't have any energy anymore, and like I
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  Speaker 2: love my wife, but I just don't feel like it.
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  Speaker 1: Check check check.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. We're like, okay, well, let's you know, let's check
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  Speaker 2: your hormones and here's some viagra and here's some options,
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  Speaker 2: and let's tune it up right. And the woman comes in.
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  Speaker 2: She says the same thing and we're like, well, you know,
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  Speaker 2: you're just getting old, and try a glass of wine,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and like, you know, maybe acupuncture, but no shade to acupuncture.
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  Speaker 2: But it's like they both have legitimate medical issues, but
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  Speaker 2: we treat them very differently. We treat this one like
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  Speaker 2: he's worthy of treatment, and this one we blow off
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and we're like, why are you here? This is a
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  Speaker 2: stupid thing to be talking about. You're just getting older, right.
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  Speaker 2: So the magic that I have and why I think
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  Speaker 2: I've been able to kind of move this conversation forward
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  Speaker 2: is I see the gender bias every single day. Gynecologists
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  Speaker 2: only take care of women. They have no idea how
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  Speaker 2: we're taking care of the men. And so I hear
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  Speaker 2: how the guys treated and I see how the women's treated,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm like, would we ever say these things to
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  Speaker 2: a man? And if not, we've got inequality here and
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  Speaker 2: until the medical world is more equal and how we
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  Speaker 2: treat people and what we say is a legitimate health
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  Speaker 2: care concern.
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  Speaker 1: I got a lot of work to do or deemed
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  Speaker 1: worthy of insurance coverage?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh totally. I mean you know viagra was became
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  Speaker 2: FD approved in America in nineteen ninety eight.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, and that's a long time.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: It's a long time ago. It's one of the best.
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  Speaker 2: It was the best selling blockbuster drug of its time.
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  Speaker 2: No drug has sold more more quickly than viagra. Did okay,
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  Speaker 2: got FD approved it with just six months of safety
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: day wow? Right, so like pretty fast, this was worthy
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  Speaker 2: of them approving And uh, ninety percent of men are heterosexual, right,
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  Speaker 2: and so we're like, who's taking care of the women
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  Speaker 2: who are supposed to be sleeping with the men that
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  Speaker 2: people like me are giving viagra too?
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  Speaker 1: And I willse poor women.
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  Speaker 2: I know, and we know now because we're paying attention
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  Speaker 2: now that if you give a man viagra and you
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  Speaker 2: don't take care of his partner, you're destabilizing that relationships.
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  Speaker 2: You are because he doesn't know how to talk, like
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  Speaker 2: they don't know how to talk about sex, right, because
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  Speaker 2: our sex said stinks in the country.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: But it's like you have to say, like what's your
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: plan with your superdick? Now? Like where are you going
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  Speaker 2: to go with this?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: You're super dick?
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  Speaker 2: That's where like we're improving your blood flow? Are we
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: improving her blood flow?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Is anybody dealing with her genitally 'or a narry cindral menopause,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: like does she even want to sleep with you? So
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  Speaker 2: now I mean I'm like such a better urologist now
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: than I was, because now I man comes in with
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: this and I say, well, what's your plan? Oh? Well,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you know as for my wife? And I'm like, when'd
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: you have sex last eight years ago? And I'm like,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: did you tell her you're here today? Is somebody says
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: somebody done a physical examine her? Like does she want
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: to sleep with you? Right? Because guys are like, I'll
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: just I just need an erection, And I'm like sex
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  Speaker 2: is so much more than an erection, Like we to
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: have a bigger conversation about this, yeah, and who's taking
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  Speaker 2: care of her? Right? And So now what I love
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  Speaker 2: in clinic is I see couples, you know, they both
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: come in and she's we're dealing with her pelvis and
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: his pelvis and ultimately like their relationship together, and it's
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  Speaker 2: so fun.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see how that would be so fulfilling,
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  Speaker 1: to gratifying, to really help people not just individually but
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: with their partners, because we like to partner, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like midlife, I mean, if you if
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: you can go dark, pretty quick, but like divorces skyrocket
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: in midlife. And I had had a lawyer come to
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: one of my retreats last year, which was super divorce
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: lawyer came to one of my retreats and she's like,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I'm here to learn all about menopause because menopause is
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the reason and that people are getting divorced. Wow, She's
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: like untreated menopause. And she's like, but by the time
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  Speaker 2: they get to the divorce lawyer, it's too late. It's
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the end there. You know, she's pulling them out of
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  Speaker 2: the river right with the metaphor, and she's like, we
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: need to get people treated so much sooner because intimacy
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: goes away and communication goes away, like all of that
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: goes away. And so I was like, oh, man, learn
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: from the divorce.
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  Speaker 1: Lawyers, right, like, yeah, it makes sense.
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  Speaker 2: Seventy percent of divorces are initiated by women, so, which
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: is a crazy statistic. And if the woman's educated so
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: like went to college or above, ninety percent of divorces
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: are initiated by women. Yeah, I believe it's like the
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: guys don't want to get divorced, right, So it was like,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: what's happening, Well, that's.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: A whole other time. That's a whole other podcast, because
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  Speaker 1: I have feelings about it. But I mean it's a fear.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: It's like a fear. As a married woman, I can
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: say that losing my libido, losing interest in having sex
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: with my husband or my partner is a fear. Yeah,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So how do we as women get past that fear?
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  Speaker 2: I think it all goes back to education, right, And
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that from a physician who went to med
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: school who didn't learn anything about women's sexuality. And so
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: that was my first book and the reason I got
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: interested in it is like seven years into my career,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I had a woman come into my office and I
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: was very bonded with her already, like I already loved her,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I loved her husband. We were working on legitimate, serious
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: urology issues. And she was crying in my office because
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of their sexless marriage, and I handed her the box
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  Speaker 2: of KLEENICX, and I'm like in my head, I was like,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know how to help her. And I was
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  Speaker 2: training because again I was trained by men. Only if
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: there's only a thousand female eurologists in America, and we
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: take care of the men, right, women are difficult, will
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: never figure them out, and don't worry. The gynecologists are
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: taking care of them. And that's what I was told.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And so when she's crying in my office, these thoughts
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: are coming back, and I'm like, is it true? Is
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: it true? We don't know anything about female sexuality? Right?
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Is it true? The gynecologists are taking care of female sexuality?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: And I just didn't know that, right, So I just
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  Speaker 2: started learning, started going to the conferences. I ran into
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a friend of mine there from med school, and I'm like,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: she's a gynecologist, and I'm like, why are you here.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: You're supposed to know all this already, right, and she's like,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: we didn't learn it either. I'm like, okay, so doctors
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about sex. Yeah, that's what's bad. So
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: it's so for me to say women need to get educated.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: It's like and that's why I wrote the book, That's
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: why the podcast, because it's like, you actually can't go
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: to your doctor and be like, tell me everything I
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: need to know about sex. Like doctor visits are ten
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: minutes long at best at this point. But it's like
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: what turns you on? What's what is arousing? What do
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: you need to get in the mood because Hollywood gives
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: us a three minute sexual script which doesn't pan out
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: in real life. No, if that's our education, yeah.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: You start thinking it's supposed to look like I saw
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: in the movies, like.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, instantaneous so in love. Yes, it is like you're
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: just like so hot, instantaneous orgasm. It lasts three minutes,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: it's it's over when the man orgasms, Like it's a
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: sexual script on repeat. So we think that's real life,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: but it's like, no, real life's actually way messier and
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: sex can actually be a lot longer, right, Like Hollywood
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: gives us very short sex.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: They only have so many.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Minutes, mates, I have a commercial break. But yeah, so
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: we think like that's where we get our education, because
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: we didn't otherwise get anything more than like disease and
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: pregnancy prevention plans.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basics, the basics. A lot of people simply don't
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: know what harry or meno pause. They don't know the difference,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: and it's for so long carried such a stigma, such
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a feeling of shame for women who are at the
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: end of the end of other people's jokes about it.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we've made it a joke.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: It's a joke.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: It's a joke.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: It's funny. It's not funny, you guys.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: It's not funny. If we cut off men's testicles or
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: they fell off at age fifty one, there would be
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: a national vaccine and it wouldn't be funny, and they'd
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: all be on testostero.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, there would be like national guard everywhere.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, it's like take care of these dudes. There'd
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: be like a day off for them. But I think
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: part of the problem is, like you can't see your ovaries.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: You don't know what your ovaries do, or if you do,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: you think they make eggs, which they do, but they
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: also produce hormones. And ovaries only last a certain amount
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of time based upon the size of them. So the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: size of the ovary is based upon the size of
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the mammal. So elephant ovaries are bigger. Human ovaries are smaller,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: and they have follicles, which are just basically little parts
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: that release hormones, and we use those every month, right
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: to put out an egg and produce hormones, and after
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: a certain amount of time there's none left. Right, But
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: we are living so much longer now, So antibiotics alone
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: have extended human life span by twenty six years per
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: person in America, Like, we are living so much longer
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: than we use two naturally. So it's like clean water, sanitation,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: excellent food sources, Like we're making it to eighty four.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: It's forty years without hormone production, and a lot of
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: people are like, well, I can't really feel it. Some
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: people are very symptomatic, but some people aren't. It's like,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: you can't feel your bones thinning, you can't feel your
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: brain changing, you can't feel your arteries stiffening, you can't
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: feel your labia minora disappearing. Right, It's like all these
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: things where we're like, oh, you can feel it happening,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: but there's many things happening hormonally that you can't feel.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: But we'll have dire consequences if you live long enough.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Correct, and we don't know how to treat them right,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: because nobody was talking about it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Nobody was talking about it. And you know the crazy
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: thing about menopause and replacing hormones is in the nineteen nineties,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: forty percent of American women were on hormones. That's what's
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: so crazy about it. It's like, I'm just trying to
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: get us back to the hormones. Were the torments were
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: in the top five top selling drugs in America in
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, I remember a specific one that I was like,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: what it was? They made it from equine urine.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Premar premarin.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: There's it's still out there.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still there.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: But I was like, I am never going to.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Eat eat orry pregnant horses. Yeah. Well, like just for
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: fun medicine history, we isolate the very first hormones from
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: pregnant humans because they're in a hospital and we can
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: collect their pe not we not like me, but but
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: like medical science on human right. Yeah, so first we're
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: consuming human urine hormones. We've evolved and now we can
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: you know, modern manufacturing, Like it's the hormone that you're
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: ovary naturally produces, not taken from an animal given back
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: to you. So we we have the most safe hormones
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: now than we've ever had.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, so seeing as every human, like you said, fifty
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: percent of the population, every female human is going to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: experience perry and menopause if they're like even and they live,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that's right, and even if they don't know it, even if.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: They don't know it even if they'd have no you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: quote unquote feeling that they're going through.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: What are we looking for? Like as far as a symptom.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: So the classic symptom is hot flashes. Yeah, hot flashes,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: night sweats parse Parsley. This forty to sixty percent of
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: women a less well known, but they're starting to study
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: it more. Is something called not feeling like myself?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've heard this phrase.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they're actually starting to publish papers on
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it of like how common is it that women don't
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: feel like themselves? And it's very common. It's like sixty
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: percent of women don't feel like myself and that's changing
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: hormones little in society, like judging you for aging, right, congratulations,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: you're not dead. We're gonna judge you for aging, Like
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: it's a crazy it's a crazy world that we live in.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: But really, like, do you One of the most satisfying
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: things that I do as a clinician is when women
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: come back and they say I feel like myself again,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Like that is the best day for me. And I
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: put smart women back out doing smart things. That's they're
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: changing the world. And I'm like, I have the best
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: job in the world because I make them feel like
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: themselves and like they want to get things done.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: For a woman who doesn't quote feel like herself, what
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: does that mean?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it means I know what it means. It's really hard,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: yeah right, Like it's I was just gonna say, the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: best way to know what it means is to have
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: gone through it yourself, because you can't. I can't do
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: a lab and be like, does Jenny feel like Jenny? Right?
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Can I X ray you and see if you if
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you're feeling like yourself? Like you can't objectively measure it.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: But a woman will come back and she'll be like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I feel like myself, and I'm like I get it,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Like I know what that means. Like you just have
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: a knowing of like you know, it's kind of I
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: mean for people who don't have that experience, and maybe
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: you could share yours, but it's like when you have
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: like the really bad flu or something like you feel
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: we were like, oh okay, I'm back now right, it's
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: like yeah, kind of that knowing that you're back. I
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: was off, I'm back. Yeah.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I think for me, it lasted for a long time.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: It lasted for years of not feeling like I couldn't
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: really understand what was happening. I didn't know why am
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I feeling more depressed? Why am I having anxiety? Why
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: am I losing my hair? Why can't I sleep? Why
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: do I have lower sexual desires? Like so many things?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, why can't I remember things?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I need to go see if I have Alzheimer's or
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: not getting dementia. I did that check, like you go
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: and you talk to doctors and nobody ever kind of
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: piece the puzzle together in a way that made sense,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And it also felt so overwhelming, because how can I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: possibly follow all these different doctors orders and regimes and
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: prescriptions like it's it becomes so much.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, like when you're sick, it's very hard to
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: advocate for yourself. Right. It's a lot easier to advocate
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: for yourself when you're feeling great, but that's not how
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: you enter the medical system. Usually you're sick and you
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: can't advocate for yourself, and you're tired and you're feeling crappy.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: That's why you want help, But it's hard to advocate
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: when that's what you're going through. It's very hard.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: It's so true. I like that I'm not feeling myself.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not feeling myself, not.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Feeling Yeah, the abbreviation it was NFLM. Not feeling like myself.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Like the NFLM is actually getting more and more studied.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: My husband would be very excited thinking it's the NFL
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: with some new team at it. But surprise, any we're
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: not talking about football. Okay, So let's talk about sex,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: libido and all of the things and the lack thereof
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: what happens why does that happen to you us?
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: So sex is incredibly complex, which is why I love
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: the topic so much. Right, it's biopsychosocial, So it's biology
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: what's going on in your body?
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Biopsychosocial. That's the word.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Word word, that word, and now I'm like, uh, but
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: it explains things bio bio psycho, So the bios like
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: your cells and how well you're functioning, and you know,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: what are your hormones doing? And do you have painless sex?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And like all the body parts. And then psychological is
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: like how are you feeling about your body image and aging?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And like you know, what how is your relationship and
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: like do you guys even like each other? Right? And
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: then social is like what does society tell you about,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: you know, your attractiveness as a female as you age?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: How close are you to the current ideal that's ever
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: changing on what sexy is? Right, that actually influences women's
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: desire for sex, How close they are to the ever
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: changing societal norm of what sexy is? And then society's
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: rules like if a woman likes sex, what do we
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: call her? Happy? Might be one word, but a bad
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: word might be another word. Right, like our judgment of
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: are you allowed to want sex as a woman without
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: being judged about it?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Now you have then? Right, there's so many things I
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: could say right now totally derogatory that I've heard about that.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: So sex exists within that huge bubble. Right, it's like
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: not just a functioning body, but also like does society
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: say it's okay for you to touch yourself? Does society
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: say that a woman's allowed to pursue sex? Does society
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: say a woman can have a higher sex drive than
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: her male partner? Right, it's like all these myths and
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: biases that we're trying to like when we're swimming in
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: this right, and most people haven't sat down and been like,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: can you journal you know how you feel about being
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: sexual in our society, Like nobody's thinking about that, but
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: it affects us, right, Am I doing this right? I've
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: seen people have sex on in Hollywood movies. Am I
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: matching up to that? Right? So there's like comparison all
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the time that's happening. So that's biopsychosocial. And in perimenopause
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: and menopause, hormones go down, and estrogen and testosterone because
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: ovaries make testosterone, influence dopamine and serotonin, which is I
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: feel good? I want to pursue sex. Sex is rewarding
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: all of those things. Estrogen and testosterone affect the brain,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: also affect blood flow, arousal orgasm. You give a woman testosterone,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: her clteral artery has more blood flow to it.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, I always forget to take my testosterone. But
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: like twenty minutes before you came, I was like, I
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: gotta put this on, And then I thought, am I
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: even doing this right? I have the clicker kind that
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: it says give it two clicks and then you have
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: point five? Is that a good dose?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Is it points at point five millilaters or mili? Do
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: we know milligrams? Just for ges? So for everybody listening
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I always say clicks is in a dose, clicks is
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: in amount. So you just need to know how many
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: mgs you're putting on. That's miligrams.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go into testosterone talk.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: So testosterone again, Like I always have to back up
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: and be like, overies make testosterone because otherwise we are,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: like doctor Casperson says, we should take this male hormone.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this is a female hormone.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound right that our ovaries are making testosterone, right,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: just me you looking at what you're saying from over here.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Google's like, disosterone is the male hormones. It's for men's wrong.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Men need that. I don't know.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't learn it in med school either. Like that's
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: the trippy thing is, yeah, I did not learn that's
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: in medical school.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: That's so frightening.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: We gender it. We gender things. We say men have testosterone,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: women have estrogen. Here's the fascinating part. But we'll get
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: back to the diestosterone. Men have more estrogen in their
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: bodies than a postman aposal female.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: What do they do with it?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: They have sex with it? So they actually like they
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: did this study. It's a crazy study because they took
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: young men and they blocked their testosterone. Like I don't
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: know how much they paid these people, but I hope
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: they paid them. So they took these men, blocked their testosterone,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: gave them distosterone back, but blocked the conversion of disosterone
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: to estrogen because that's how that's how bodies were make
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: distosterone and they converted to so they blocked that. So
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: now you have a normal distosterone but no estrogen. Male
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: body sex drive went down.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: They need the estrogen, they need the ESU. We need
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the estrogen, We need the estrogen.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that crazy though? Like so if I have
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: a couple in, you know, and the woman's kind of
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: skittish about hormones or whatever, and I look at her
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: male partner and I'm like, you know, he has more
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: estrogen in your bot in his body than you have
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: right now, and it kind of blows their mind to like, WHOA,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I really have no estrogen? Then, yeah, because we don't
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: think of them as having tons of estrogen, and you don't.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: We don't think about all of our issues, our symptoms,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: our aches and pains being about estrogen, right, and the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: fact that you know that could be just a major
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: component of why we're feeling the way we're feeling.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: One of the very common ones is like frozen shoulder,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: which they call the fifty one year old shoulder. Yeah right,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: And the muscle skeletal syndrome of menopause now, which is
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: like joint aches and pain. The osteoarthritis goes up with
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: low hormones, like need for rotator cuff goes up in
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: any gender with low hormones. So like our muscle skeletal
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: system uses these hormones to like lubricate and move and
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: not be painful. The snostrenes actually very good at I
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: don't say treating pain, but like modulating pain. So like
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: the stereotype of like it's only for hot flashes or
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: you know, it's only for these The big stereotype of
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: testosterone for women is that it's only for libido. And
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: to me, I'm like, if you say that, then you
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: don't understand how sex works, right, because libidos a mood
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: and it's a motivation. Where do those come from? They
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: come from the brain, right, So it's like testosterone works
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: in our brain, that's what it does. Like why is
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: your libido better? Because I feel like myself I actually
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: have motivation and energy and humans start looking better a
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not lying. You look great right now because I
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: got I'm loaded up.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Right yeah those two hours before podcast?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Wait, okay, am I supposed to put my testosterone where?
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Am I supposed to put it?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Lateral thighs?
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Outside?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: That are they common? And the reason is this You're
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: get a side effect of hair growth where the application is.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: So for risks, it's like, oh, you don't want hairy wrists,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: so it's not an aesthetic that's in right now, But
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: like lateral fis, you're not gonna notice or you're going
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: to shave you legs anyways, so either way, okay, so
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: we will do nerthizer, just more hair follicles there. Right.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Some people in some parts of the nation will tell
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: women to put systemic and systemic means full body, so
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it's supposed to be in your full body, but they'll
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: tell them to put it on their lavia. Uh. They
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: can get really high absorption that way because labia has
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: tons of testosterone receptors. So we tend just to use
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: regular skin lateral fighs.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, that's very good information.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: And our dosing is one tenth the male dose. One tenth,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So this is small amounts. We're not trying to and
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: you know that's ssterioto. Will you turn me into a
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: man if I give you man doses?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: We do that.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: One of the competitive ones know.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: That they take a lot of things, way more things
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: than testosterone, and.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: They and they work very, very hard, and they work at.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Gonna accidentally get biceps. But that's the myth with testosterone
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: is like will it give women must It's like not
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: if you don't eat and not if you don't lift weight.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna make me have a hairier face?
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Right? No?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: No, when it's dosed appropriately, dosed appropriately, most people know
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: one tenth of what a managing tenth have.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Which is usually somewhere around three and five milligrams a day.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So your point of view is testosterone goes hand in
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: hand with estrogen.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: But that's not where society is right now. But to me,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like your ovaries make it starts going down after
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: our twenties, and there's nothing magical again about like your
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: last period marks the menopause transition. Right, there's nothing magical
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: about having periods or not with distosterone. Dososterone starts going
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: down after our twenties, So there's a lot of perimenopausal
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: women that could benefit with distosterol.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting. And also I was right there thinking,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. That sounds risky for all
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the reasons we just talked about. I was very like,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: you know, nervous to try it. And I'll say some
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: honestly days that I don't use it because I'm thinking,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: is this something I have to use every day? Is
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: this something that, like you know, I can use once
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: in a while. Is it a daily thing?
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: It's a daily thing. I mean, ovaries don't take a
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: day off so oover, just replace my older old right,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I'm don't taking time off, take months off at a
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: time in perimenopause. Yeah, But I mean the cool thing
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: is doctors have been giving women to stosterone for eighty years.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Like that's the thing. It's like, I'm not actually I'm
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: not actually new. I just know the data and I
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: just know what people have been doing, right, Distosterone's been
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: around for like eighty years. Have been giving women to
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: stosterone for eighty years, And we're probably three or four
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: years away from an FDA approved pharmacologic female dose testosterone.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And when that happens, the conversation is going to change,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: right so cause it's just going to validate it so
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: much more so, there's multiple companies right now going forward.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: And when so I went and spoke at the FDA
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: in July and my talk was to stosterone and I
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: gave them several requests. But it's like it's gonna be
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: a game changer. It's just going to normalize it for
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: people because we've been doing it for a while. And
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: the women who were on it like if you and
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: this is what I you know, I say, It's like
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: women don't come back and say thank you for my libido.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: That's the only thing that's better on testostero like that.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: They never say it's only libido. It's like this goes
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: in your brain and it's the biggest thing is motivation.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I just did a follow up with a woman surgical menopause,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: which means her ovaries were removed, doctors did not give
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: her hormones for three years. Her symptoms got so bad
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: she had to quit her job. And I know she's
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: not the only one, so I want to tell the
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: story so otherwise, like yes, so she got up finally
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: got on estrogen before she found me was like, oh
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: my god, the sun's back out right, So got back
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: on estrogen, helped her sleep. All the things came to
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: me for testostero, and I just did her fall up
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, and she it was a
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: telemed and she's like, let me show you outside my house.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: It's she takes me out there and a deck is
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: being made out there and she's like, this is my
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: testosterone deck. And I'm like, your testosterone deck. Tell me more.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: And she's like, I just have the motivation to get
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: things done now, Oh I want that. Yeah. So it's
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: like this pursuit of wanting to get things done that
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Like again, it's how do I X ray your level
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: of motivation? How do I draw blood and say this
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: is her level of motivation and it's less than what
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: it used to be, right, So and I say that
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: to be like in medicine, we love measuring things, we
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: love being objective. So it's this kind of like it's
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: not woo wo, but it's kind of this like I'm
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: telling you testosterones giving you back something that's kind of
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: hard to measure, So it's like less valid in the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: medical world of like I don't know how I measure that.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Drives me crazy when people are like disosterones only for libido.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: You're like, libido doesn't exist. There isn't like the one
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: centimeter libido box on the left side of your brain
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: that like only testosterone goes to. Like, it's not how
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: brains work, it's the whole thing body, the whole whole body. Yeah, there,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, And there's we have much less data on
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: testosterone than we do for estrogen.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Well but until soon we'll be well.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Hopefully, yeah, hopefully you're.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: A part of it. Okay, So there's you know, I
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: think in the early two thousands, there was that whole
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: situation with telling women they shouldn't be on home hormone replacement.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: There ye, the whr the wh should we talk about that?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: People don't know?
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I would like you too.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: So we've been giving women to disosterone and extra hormones
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: for like eighty years. In the nineteen nineties, forty percent
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: of American women were on it. It was the top
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: one of the top five best selling drugs in the nation.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Hormone if you can even call like what your ovary
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: makes a drug? Right, But I don't have a better word.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: So hormones was one of the top ten, top five pharmaceuticals,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: And I want to set the stage for people to
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: be like, we're not talking about something new, We're trying
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: to get back to where we were because the devastation
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: was profound. So the cardiologists back in the nineties, they're like,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: women who are on hormones seem to have less heart disease.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And they had observational studies and like they had allotted
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: data to be like women who stay on the hormones,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: they're not getting heart disease like the women who aren't.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: So they knew something was up with this, and they said,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: let's do a randomized spacebo control trial looking at this.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Let's prove it definitively like core of a million dollar study.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: At the time.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Now that would be a billion dollars if we wanted
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: to do it now. Federal government funded like forty sites
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: in America, big study, and it was like this big
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: thing because it was like, oh, it's on women, right,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: which is a big deal. But what they did is
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: they took older women, so not new menopause fifty year olds.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: They took older women average age sixty three, and they
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: put them on oral synthetic medications as we don't use now,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: and they stopped it early because they didn't like how
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: there was some breast cancer in some of the people,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: but it never was statistically significant. The crazy thing about
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: this study is that it's free online right now, like
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: anybody can pull up and read this whri It's not
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: like this mystery thing in a history book. It's like, no,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: it's free online, like I can pull it up and
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: read it and it says comes close to statistical significance.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: And in the medical research world can't come close and
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: have it be statistically significant. It's like you're kind of pregnant.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, no, you're pregnant, or you're not pregnant. Right,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: it's either statistically significant or it's not. And it wasn't.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: But back in two thousand and one, in two thousand
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: and two, there wasn't social media. Medical studies got printed
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: on paper and got mail deer house a week later,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: so the doctors couldn't read it, and they went to
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: the media first. They wanted a big they wanted it big.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: So some of the researchers went to the media and said,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: we stop this because of the risks of breast cancer.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Media took it ran with it. Women are now afraid
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: of something their body naturally makes. One week later, the
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: doctors get to read the study because it came in
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: the mailbox and they said it didn't reach statistical significance.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: And the doctors who knew knew that this wasn't that
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: big of a deal. But they didn't have social media platforms,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: they didn't have podcasts, they didn't have the news stations. Right,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: so about eighty percent of women in this nation got
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: taken off of their hormones. Subsequently, there's been papers published
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: saying because of that, because remember lots of people were
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: on hormones, we took them off, we have more heart disease,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: more bone fractures, there's more breast cancer now. And the
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: crazy thing about the study, to wrap it up for people,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: is that the women who are in the estrogen alone
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: study had actually decreased risk of breast cancer. And that
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: did not make the news at all. So, I mean,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: it's sickening to be like, you guys wanted the attention
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: and you gave it negative attention. But there's actually some
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: really good stuff that came out of there, and nobody
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: knew about it, right because it's good news. Doesn't make
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: us turn as many heads, that's right, but it's done
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: profound damage, and it's made women afraid of something their
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: body naturally makes.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hardest part because I talk about hormone
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: replacement and I share my story and tell people that
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I use it, and I get a lot of women saying, oh,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I can't take that, or I have breast cancer in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: my family, so I can't.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very common myth. Yeah, and so it's
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and the good I want people to understand, Like everything
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I'm saying is like published somewhere and written somewhere. This
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: isn't like Kelly's opinion on life, right, Like I'm very
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: well researched in this. But family history is not a
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: contraindication to hormone therapy, and that's well published. There's twenty
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: twenty two menopause guidelines. So what happens to your family
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't control your ability to be on hormones, and people
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: don't know that. Yeah. I mean. The other thing that's
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: crazy about breast cancer, which I'd say is probably one
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: of the most feared things that women has, is like
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: most women don't know that alcohol increases the risk of
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: breast cancer. And that was very interesting for me because
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I would see women come in and they're so afraid
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: of estrogen, and I'm like, how much do you drink
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: a week? Like, oh, you know, a bottle of weekend
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: or you know, whatever it might be. And I'm like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: you realize that alcohol has an association with breast cancer
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: And they're like, I didn't know that. And I'm like,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: so here you are afraid of something that doesn't cause
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: breast cancer and you're unaware of something that is a
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: known cancer causing agent eight cancers. Actually, yeah, right, So
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: it's like we're afraid the wrong thing.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you're a smoker, you think, oh, I'll
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: stop smoking cigarettes and I'll just vape. Sure, yeah yeah,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: yeah right, it's like that. That's what the kids are
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: thinking in these days, not even knowing right what kind
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: of damage they're doing bodies.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's awful.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah. So when I hear that back then,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you need to be listening to the right doctors,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and I give them recommendations listening to the right podcasts
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: and reading the right books.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and because remember like what we're doing, like
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: the doctors who are sharing. This is we're changing medicine
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: from the bottom up, right, We're getting the women educated,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and we tell them, we're like, hey, I'm sorry, you're
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: going to know more than your doctor for a little
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: bit about this. Like sorry, because after the WHI medical
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: schools stop teaching this, residencies stop teaching this. We have
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: two decades of untrained medical clinicians. But nothing motivates a
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: doctor to learn something. Then like five women came into
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: my office this week saying, I want to try vaginal estrogen,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I want to try an estrogen patch, blah blah blah.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: So we're saying, here's the data, here's how to talk
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: to doctors, go advocate, because the bottom up is how
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: it's going to change. It's very similar, I think to
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: the HIV AIDS ground swell, Like doctors weren't trying new
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: meds research, wasn't doing anything. The patients and the advocates
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: went in and said we want to be treated, you
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: have to do something, and so like that ground swells
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: like that's what the women are doing now. This is
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: how we're changing medicine.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an amazing movement.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, it's so good.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, This brings me to a question that maybe a
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: lot of women have dealt with. This when you need
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: to read your books and you got your facts down
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: and you know things that maybe your doctor doesn't know,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: and you go into the doctor's office and you tell
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: them what you know, and they say, oh, yeah, you
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: should stop reading so many books.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, or you should stop being on the internet.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, don't google it.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Don't don't google it. You should also not listen to podcasts.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: According to some people. You know, there was just a
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: paper study this is the breast cancer survivor population, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: they basically ask the researchers ask the women, where do
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: you get your health information from? Right, It's social media,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: it's podcasts, it's books, because you don't have enough time
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: to be educated in the doctor's office, Like, that's not
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: what it's there. If they want you in and out,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: they want you in and out. So you know, it's
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: it's very paradoxical to be like, don't don't get educated,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: but we can't do it here. You know, it's like, no, women,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you're not going to turn off social media, right, Like
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: there's good stuff and there's bad stuff. And I would argue,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: like the doctors who know the good stuff. They need
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: to be on there because lord knows, there's a bunch
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: of people selling other things on there, right, Like, it's
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: got to get some sort of truth. So advocating for
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: yourself is just an absolute, huge scary thing for a
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: lot of people. Have a chapter in my book on
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: how to talk to your doctor, right, So my first
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: tip is, if you have a great relationship already awesome,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: you're already ahead of the curve. A lot of women
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: don't have that relationship with their doctor, right, who's like
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: willing to be like, hey, we're both getting older together,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: let's learn how to do this. Let's what do you know?
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I'll see what I know like a part because that's,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, a lovely, amazing thing.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Not everybody has that. So if you don't have that,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: one tip is call the receptionist and say, does doctor
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Jones deal with perimenopause and menopause, because don't take a
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: day off of work, pay for parking, get childcare to
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: go sit, pay for your cope to go sit in there,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, I'm learning a lot about perimenopause and
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I think I might benefit from an estrogen patch. And
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: they're like, nope, I don't believe in that. Like, learn
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: that before you do all those things. Yeah. Right, So
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: it's like get ahead of it to be like, Okay,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: if doctor Jones doesn't do that, do one of their
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: partners do that? Right? Who's in the clinic that sees
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: these patients, right, because that's a friendly person. And then
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: this is the script. I've been reading a lot about
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: x y Z and I'm experiencing that. Can I try
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: vaginal estrogen, an estrogen patch, five milligrams of testosterone whatever
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: it is? So you tell them what you want. I
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: would like to try x y Z for this reason.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I will schedule a follow up in two to three months,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: and we will adjust as need it. Doctors love knowing
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: how you do. They love knowing they're gonna just as needed.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want to try something and never
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: see you again. I hate it when people like don't
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: come back. Yes, I think you're like, well, how that helped? Yeah,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: help that go. So we love that. So it's like
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: speak our language and kind of give give that. I'm
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: on your team. I don't want to do anything dangerous either. Right,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Let's see how it works that that moves mountains, and
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you know, again, it's a partnership. At the end of
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the day. Hormones in America are a prescription. You do
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: need somebody to help you access them. But find large
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: doctors want to help women. And if you are winning
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: on hormones, go back and tell that doctor, like I
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: am now sleeping. Oh my god, my sex life is
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: so much better. Oh my god, the brain FOG's better. Like,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: tell them why you're better, because they're gonna help the
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: next woman with that's right, because they see that.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's amazing. We talked about cancer risks, and
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I remember what you wrote in the book about being
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: people being afraid of estrogen and something our body naturally produce,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and not being afraid of alcohol, which is the leading
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: cause of a lot of major diseases.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they think about ten percent of breast cancer is
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: alcohol related.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is a very like generalization. But
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like as an American seeing our foods, the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: things we have available to us and the things that
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: are you know, really sort of laid out for us
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: as things we should want, like sugary drinks from the
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: coffee store. Yeah.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: To call them out. But the sugary drinks, the drive
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: through food, the sodas up to the gulps. You know,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like people are setting us up for being
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: at least pretty diabetic.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, and I mean the amount of sugar. If
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you just look at like how much sugar humans consumed
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: in the eighteen hundreds, I'm not even talking like more
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: than a hundred years ago. It was like the eighteen
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: hundreds compared to now, it's insane.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: How much do they eat in eighteen hundreds of curious?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Very little?
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Well, what are they getting?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Like they can't have like a cake once a year?
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Somebody made a cake, right, yeay?
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. The other interesting thing about that is sex was
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: the most amazing thing because there wasn't a lot else
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: going on, right, Like, sex was great, That's what was
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: gonna be the highlight of your week. And now we're like,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I got Netflix, I got Hagana's Mint Chip, I've got
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: any type of bottle of wine that I want. Like
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: we're getting our dopamine in ways that it's other than sex,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Whereas like even one hundred years ago, you're like there's
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: nothing else. We don't have electricity, nothing else to do.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Sex seems pretty good. Yeah, but sex is actually work, right,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: It's a lot. It's more work, I mean than scrolling
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: and a pine ice cream. Yeah.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: You definitely have to exert some energy. You have to
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: exert energy, which.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: You have to coordinate with another human if you want
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: another human involved, right, and that they have to get
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: off their device, right. Like, sex is actually like not
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: at the top of the dopamine like food chain anymore. Yeah,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: unless you prioritize it.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: To me, I remember when exercise was the top of
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the dopamine food chain. Yeah, yeah, and everyone was saying,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: you have to exercise because that's how you're body releases
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: the dopamine. Those are chemicals that we need, yea, And Okay,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that don't motivate me to but I just did it
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: blindly because someone said it. Yeah, no like doctor recommending it,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: you know, no one saying that that was gonna help
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: my hormone balance.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Right yeah. Yeah, So exercise won't make your ovaries not
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: run out of follicles. I think that's a bit. I
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: guess there's like the crazy stuff on social media, right,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Like if you just like like stretch your fascia a
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: certain way, you can prevent metopause. It's like, no, that's
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: not how it works. But exercise really does help vaso
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: motor symptoms. It really helps sleep, it really helps glucose metabolism,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: like it helps so much in midlife. It's like, don't
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: just think you can slap on an estrogen patch and
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: be good, Like you.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Still all things it does for you. Why wouldn't you
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: do it?
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it is better than any Like exercise
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: is better than any drug at preventing dementia. Yes, if
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: they could, it would have a Super Bowl ad for sure.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: They'd be like, exercise helps your brain. People who exercise
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: have better sex.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: No. Now it is is you watch the Suitable commercials
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: and it's they list all the side effects and they
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: say them so fast that you're.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Like, wait, what yeah, stay fast for a reason.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Short is the breath, the irritable sundrum, totally cottenance. They'll
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: tell you all the things that this drug could give you.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what's so interesting. So the whether I
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: don't know if you know or not, but they're the
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: vaginal estrogen has a boxed warning on it that the
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: FDA put on after the wa try it's still there,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: still there. We went to the FDA in July. Still there,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: it's low hanging fruit. It's got to come off. Everybody
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: all the One of the criticisms of us at the FDA,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: they're like they agree on too many things because we
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: all agree the box warning needs to come off of
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: vaginal estrogen like that is like, you know, if you're
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: an expert, you agree on that. So it says probable dementia,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: probably probable, not possible, No probable probable.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Dementia, very high sakes, very high.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Sakes blood clot liver disease, heart disease. It doesn't cause
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: any of that. So you've got this inaccurate, super scary
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: box on vaginal estrogen, which is basically skincare. It's just skincare,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: that's all it is. And then you've got alcohol government warning,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: which is like don't operate heavy machinery or get pregnant.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: And you're like, one of these causes cancer and one
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: of them doesn't. The labels switched, yeah exactly. You're like,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: we're being we're being told to be afraid of the
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: wrong things. So I did an Instagram thing. I'm like,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: here's two government label warning labels. One of these actually
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: causes cancer. It's the one that doesn't have the label
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: that says it causes cancer. Well that's confusing, right, Like
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: it's awful, right, we want to have trust in the
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: truth of labeling, but don't just don't operate a forklift
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: and wine's fine.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Has there been research around, Like cannabis
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: not as.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Much, but so THHC and people a lot of women
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: use CBD or THC gummies for sleep because sleep is
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: so gets so wrecked when your hormones go down. Right,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: So I just started keeping tracks since I opened my
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: new clinic, but I've gotten three people off of their
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: CBD THC gummies because what the sleep experts will tell
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: you is that the thhcs really bad for it makes
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: you sleep, and it makes you sleepy, but it's not
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: good deep sleep. It's not restorative sleep. And they're worry
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: is that your brain's not not getting what it needs
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: to stay healthy. So hormones are amazing for sleep, right,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, every time I get a patient off
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: of their damn sleep gummies, I'm like, yeah, there's another one.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Because you know, the moms at the carpool lane are like, oh,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: just eat this.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Just eat this. Yeah, but like the sleep people are like,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: it's not good for your brain.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I saw something speaking about just things you see on
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: the internet and you don't know if they're true or not.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: I saw something on social about if you don't go
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: to bed before twelve, and I think there's definitely something here.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: But then what's that rhythm? Arkatia rhythm? But if you
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: don't go to sleep before twelve, you're not getting that deep,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: deep sleep that you have to get because it happens early.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: It happens really interesting. I mean it's interesting, like people
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: so many people are wearing wearables now and so when
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: they come back, especially if they if we are starting wait,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: wearbles like a whoop or an aura ring yep, yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: apple wash, anything that's tracking sleep, right, there's a bunch
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: of things that do. And so now they'll come back
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: and they'll be like, look at my sleep on hormones,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: like they can actually see that they're actually having rem sleep.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And one of the cool side effects of hormones of
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: people are like, I'm dreaming again, and I'm like, that
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: means that you're having that restorative sleep and actually hitting
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: those different sleep levels.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, how can we help men understand? Yes, in a
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: clear and simple way that also won't make them shut
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: their ears off when they hear the words perry or menopause,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: because the truth is, if you're a man that's listening,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: or you know a man that's listening, you need to
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: let them know that. That would be a huge mistake
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: to not learn about what the women around us are
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: experiencing and what they're going through, because you're going to
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: miss out on a lot eleven totally.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: How do you remember the men to want to get
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: divorced by lark?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: So hard for me to wrap my head around.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: I know, but that's therapy.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I think I'm not the right statistic. I'm also in
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: the other statistic, and I think it's just an age
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: thing when you're like I was just talking about this
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: with some women from the Thrive fifty plus UH arena
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: and we were talking about how we just don't have
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: the tolerance anymore. Yeah, so it suck for when.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you can swear on your podcast
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: but it's called something, you know what, then I don't
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: give up the zero fucks the zero fox. You have
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: a zero the zero fox. Okay, So this is how
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: you explain this to men Okay, take your testicles, take
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: your take your testicles. They're gonna shrivel up and get
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: small and then they're gonna fall off. And then we're
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: gonna say, but that's just what happens, and that's just aging. Yeah,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: and you're gonna be fun and it's natural. Yeah, But
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: what happens when your testicles are removed hot flashes, poor sleep,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: You can't hold muscle on, your libido, it gets tanked,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: You have no energy to do anything. You start getting
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: more fat in the middle of the belly. The exact
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: same thing, exact same that happens.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: If you're there, you their balls off, that's what would happen.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Yes, that's how you say it, Buntley, Yes.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Because you know nobody wants to get their balls cut
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: off that it sounds like a really terrifying.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Suyes, and I think you know, I'm like, if only
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: our ovaries were on the outside so we can actually
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: see them, it's smaller, yeah, and so they don't actually die.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: They still high, but they just they don't have they
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: don't have any follicles left that are functional and can
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: produce them.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Not really, yeah, but.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: We can't see them, right, So, like I said, it's like,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: we love objective things that we can see an X
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: ray and measure. That's a great way. And so were
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: all the picture. Men can see their testicles. It's a
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: nice visual. They're attached, they enjoy, they like theirs and
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: so it's just like use a body part that they know,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: like and trust their testicles and say it says if
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: your testicles stopped working, and then society said, don't worry, honey,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: that's fine.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: But what if they fight that and say that just
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff you heard on that end.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: But that's what it is to be like, that's that's
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: just science.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: It's science.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: It's gonads reaching the end of their life. And about
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: twenty percent of men will have low testosterone and low
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: tustosterone and men is associated with diabetes, depression, Alzheimer's disease,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: worse fracture risk, right, same things that happen to our bodies. Right,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: and we know when they have lotusosterone, we give them testosterone.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Like it's just it's so linear in that world and
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: here we're like, are you sick enough? You know, is
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: this really happening.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: It's very frustrating.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very frustrating. But by and large to stereotype more,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: which we've done a great job of. Men are helpers.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Men like to solve problems, to solve problems, They want
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: to understand.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: They can general, they want to understand.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: They want to really, yes, they really do. And and
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: a great way is like I don't know what you're
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: going through right now, but I know that it's real.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I know that you're suffering, and I will be here
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: for you as we figured this out together. Like superpower.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: That is superpower. Once you know you have somebody that's
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: hearing you, validating what you're saying, listening, it makes the
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: world a difference.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And if I could tell me anything about sex,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: if they want to sleep with the female in the world,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: ninety percent of men are heterosexual. But if you want
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: to sleep with a woman, she won't want to have
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: sex if it's painful. A lot of women at pain
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: with sex and don't even tell their male partner. Yep. Yeah,
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: But so because a guy's like what's changed, right, Like
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: why does she want to have sex, It's like, well,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: if it's painful, you never want to hate your thumb
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: with a hammer, right, It'll never desire pain. Her hormones
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: are changing, which affects desire because desire comes from dopamine
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: and the brain. That's what the libido is, right, And
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: so it's like biologically, there's a lot going on, And
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: was she liking sex in the first place? Did you
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: prioritize her pleasure? Did you prioritize her orgasm? Because in
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: the whole realm of like female sexuality, the desire libido
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: experts will be like talking about how to increase your desire.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: And one day, this is like three years ago, on
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: my podcast, I was interviewing somebody and I'm like, you're
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: assuming a woman's having good sex in the first place
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: in this scenario, aren't you a man? And he's like yeah,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, Aha, that's the flaw. You're assuming she
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: had good sex in the first place. You will never desire.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Chef Boyardi in a can you want a five star
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Italian restaurant? Right, Like I want to go back to that.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: I don't really care about Spaghettio's all that much, right,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: So it's like you have to have sex worth desiring
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: in order to have desire for something like it has
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: to be rewarding. And so those would be what I
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: tell men is like just know that about female sexuality.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: It can go a long way and being like it's
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: probably not you bro like her body's changing. Yeah, and
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: did you prioritize her pleasure in the first place?
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably not you bro like that because it's
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: so true. And once men get educated and women for
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: that matter, but then we understand the bio bio psycho
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: psycho social social component, which you talked about so well
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: in your book. So you're a woman, you go through menopause,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and then there's still life to live.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Hell.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where the longevity. Yeah, the advocating for yourself
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: really pays off.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: What our practices that we need to be doing right
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: now that we can do so that that we can
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: do just moving forward forever.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to age, well move Listen to all the ninety
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: year olds. They're ninety for a reason.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: There is some lucky you have.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Some luck component, but by and large, lifestyle hugely matters.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: I think we've kind of been fed this like modern
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: science and medicine, like we've got a gene for everything,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: and you either have the gene or you don't have
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: a gene. It's like genes are turned on and off
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: by your environment. A lot of the time. We're not
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: destined to just be who our parents are, right, So
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: it's like movement matters, what you put in your mouth matters,
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: sleeping matters. And you know that's one criticism of like
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: the people who prescribe hormones and talk about it. It's
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: like you just want everybody on hormones, Like I want
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: you to have an amazing life. Hormones are part of it.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I think the other part in midlife and it's going
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: back to like the zero fuck part. But this is
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: the like mindset chapter in my book is like what
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: do you want? Times? Well, this is not forever an
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: there's the finish line. Think about that, what do you want?
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: And are you living in integrity with what you want
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: in this life? Because I think you get to midlife
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and god, thank god we call it midlife, Like what
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: a blessing to call fifty mid Like it's actually like
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: very optimistic of us to call it that, right and sweet? Yeah,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: but it's like are you living your life only serving
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: other people? Or what are you actually here for? And
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: the more you drop into your own integrity of like
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: is this what I want to be doing? Like that's
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: where the pivot comes. That's where the growth comes, and
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: that's where this like you know, amazing experience of like
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: I truly get to become what I want because the
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: kids are out of diapers now, I finished my school,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: I did that career. What do I want to do now?
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: And it's like that happens very commonly and it can
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: be very disruptive, but those like those women, they're always
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: glad they went on that journey. Yeah.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Always, that's the journey too. I choose me, that's.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: The journey to I choose me.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, It's so important and as midlifers definitely go through it. Yeah, yeah,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I love this. Okay, before I let you go, doctor
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Kelly Cassperson, you're on a book tour. You're saving the
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: world from the fear of menopause. What was your last
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: I choose me moment?
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Oh? I mean probably today because I'm like, okay, I
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: need to drink a protein shake because I got a
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: fuel of the body. I got my workout in, got
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: my hair makeup done, which is super fun to do.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: You look beautiful by life very much.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: It's not just your distosterone like yeah, but it's like,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm at the point now like I went
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: through a surgical training right, Like, I hustled, I worked
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: very hard. I got to an excellent point in my career,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: and then I totally pivoted to like what do I
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: actually want to do? What do I want my week
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: to look like? Right? Do I want to help people
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: one on one? Or do I need I have like
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: a world to change? Right? And so now like really
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: for me, it's like is this fun? Is it going
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: to be fun? Is it gonna align with what I
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: want to do? So I'd say, now, like this my
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: life is kind of choosing me at this point. Yes,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: like being like I am not doing this because anybody's
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: telling me to do it, Like it's really like, it's fun.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: It lights me up. I love helping people. I love
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: hearing from women. You know, because of you, my marriage
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: is stronger than it's ever been. Because of you. I
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: went to my doctor and got on badginal estrogen because
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: of you, sex isn't painful anymore, Like, oh my god,
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: it's the best life ever. So I would say, like
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: I think I'm I think I'm doing pretty good job.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: You have walk in the walk yeah and talking the
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: talk yeah. So that's a good alignment. I love it,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: thank you, great conversation, thank you, thanks for having me