Latest / Stronger Business Together / E37 Shift to Direct Clients with Stew O'Reilly
Transcript
- Granger Forson: So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other business owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Stu O'Reilly who runs Home Run Films and like every owner he's in that middle of building things, fixing things and growing something that really matters to him. So Stu, welcome. Stew O'Reilly: Thanks, Granger. Thanks so much for having me. It's really exciting to be here. Granger Forson: Pleasure. Right, let's move on to act one then, your business. So in plain English, what does your business do? Stew O'Reilly: Okay, so yeah, as you said, I run a company called Home Run Films. we've been going for about nine years now in various forms. used to have a different couple of names when I started off and I wasn't happy with them. but essentially, in a nutshell, we produce marketing and trading videos for businesses. And those businesses can be one person bands all the way up to multinational corporates. Granger Forson: Okay, making training videos and marketing videos. Lovely. So who do you actually like then helping and what are they typically dealing with? Why do they come to you? Stew O'Reilly: So I would say the the majority of training videos that we tend to make focus or involve actors. So I have a background as an actor, I'm a trained actor and an enthusiastic filmmaker. So that's how all of that, I guess, that that came together at a head. But my my clients or my end clients sometimes, in in other cases, depending on who I'm working with, tend to have It tends to come from learning development or HR. So there could be a program on I don't know, unconscious bias in the workplace or being an active bystander or courageous conversations. a lot of the protected should I say, characteristics. So they're always learning development films, often following a kind of a pattern of what does bad look like, and then modelling what good looks like as well. So they are nimble, quick, fun, engaging videos that either sit in potentially an e-learning platform so that they can be accessed as sort of self-directed learning by a learner or they could be used in in-house facilitated training sessions or they could be used in conferences. but yeah so it's mostly about I get I guess improving people's experiences at work so that their well, their communication skills and and their self awareness, their empathy so that the business can tick along better and people can have a a more productive and and fun time at work, basically. Yeah. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Yeah, now I can really see that. And I really like the idea of having a video to film to actually help me understand the key topic in business, know, and working in the corporate world. I've seen these type of things, but normally they were slideshows and repetitive little bits of text with the occasional tiny little video. So it would have been more fun with videos throughout. So, so Stu, when Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: did the business start? What was that original spark? Stew O'Reilly: So well yeah, I guess it it's hard to s to sort of pin it down with a particular specific date, but I but I would say f filmmaking and acting was always something that I was I was interested in. And as I say, I I trained as an actor, was a professional actor, still am occasionally. but using drama is a is a is the core of what I do, whether I'm making videos or whether I'm training people or or coaching. and I was Not to go into too much detail, but I spent a lot of time in the wilderness, let's just put it like that, where I was trying to reconcile, I guess, my passion, what I'm interested in, what I love doing, with making a living, making money, having a family, all of those things that you that naturally come come your way, but you know, you you try to be something for everyone, I guess. And I I felt like I wasn't doing enough for myself. And I really struggled with, as I say, trying to do what I loved versus making making the money. And actually, it was weird, it wasn't until my second child was born, which seems like probably the worst time to give up a job and become self-employed with the risk. Granger Forson: Yep. Stew O'Reilly: But I did, and I'm very glad I did. but that was the spark. I think I I was a I was I was a young new dad and realized that actually I can't do this, I can't do this. For my kids. I can't do this for me. I'm at the end of the road. I need to do it. And I was very lucky. So I was working in in of all places some banks for a while. In communication. So there was there was there was something in that. I wasn't totally left field. But I I I left the bank and I went to work for a video agency in London. Not very long. And I regret that in some ways. But What it gave me was a massive insight into video agency work and how you can work with a a large business. So they had a a retail retail company who was my, I guess my farmers account managing. but it gave me the opportunity, as they were small business where I was getting involved because I was an actor, they knew I was an actor and I worked in comms, that I could script write and I could perform and I could act in front of cameras and and stuff. So I brought another side of a skill, should I say. But I learned so much and and it and it really sparked an interest. So for a couple of years after that, after I left and I was contracting again, I it it I guess it had sort of, you know, planted a seed. and I realized that I could maybe start to do this myself. So yeah, so that that's Granger Forson: Thanks, Stew O'Reilly: where that came that's where that came from. Yeah. Granger Forson: Fantastic. And what does the business look like today in terms of size and shape? Stew O'Reilly: So it's still very much the same actually nine years later, which which we'll probably get get into in a in a bit, but but so much bigger in other ways, I guess, is is is the answer to that. So in terms of employees, I still am the sole director, owner, you know, of of the business. but I have l associates, so people that come in and specialists and editors or video. camera operators, sound people, things like that, animators. So everything works on a on a kind of a an associate contract basis. But in terms of where I was, yeah, nine years ago to now, I started off working for a couple of small charities and now I've delivered videos for global, global businesses. So yeah. Pretty cool. And I have and I have an Granger Forson: Wow, fantastic. Stew O'Reilly: office as well. So I used to work in in in the sorry the home office and then I had the need because of all the film kit and stuff like that and having a dedicated space. So you know, as you can see behind me, it's not very not very big, but big enough for a couple of editors to be in here to shoot things if we need to and we can change things around. But we're often out and about filming on location mostly anyway. So yeah. Granger Forson: So tell us about a customer success that you're really proud of. Stew O'Reilly: gosh. A customer success. Let me think. There's there are some examples. okay, so I I would say maybe maybe one of the ones I can think of, and it's a fairly recent one, is and actually it's quite a small scale in comparison, but but just the way that it came about. So we had a the irony in this is funny as well. A very large global business who wanted to produce a kind of a demo video to showcase, I guess, the value in potentially greenlighting this this this larger video product. And the time, the turnaround was very, very short. And the person that was trying to make this work I guess wasn't really familiar with the video world. So luckily we we produced a video together before and came to me and said, I need to Produce this video that looks like we're in the the middle of America on a wind farm. obvious I live in Gloucestershire, by the way. So Granger Forson: Ha ha. Stew O'Reilly: the budget is not massive, but we need it to look as authentic and real as possible. so it's a bit of a challenge. Luckily, with the contacts I have and the businesses that I'm affiliated with, Getting hold of actors was was not an issue. So I have a great company that I work with who had American actors. So we were able to cast them. And they're all London, sorry, UK based. So that that was sorted out. But in terms of getting a kit and just even things in the background, like, you know, American plug sockets and hard hard hats and PPE. I know, you know, it I I thought you could just buy PPE on Amazon. But actually it turns out that the ones in America are very sp specific Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: and they don't have the same lines on the front of the helmet. And so I'm going on Amazon, I'm finding a whole bunch of stickers. And then the guy said, that they you know, they need to look dirty because these guys work in the field all the time. It wouldn't be authentic if they just had these really pristine hard hats and stuff. So with we're dirtying everything up on the mud and then we're getting stickers that have sort of US flags or Bart Simpson or Mickey Mouse or you know, anything that just sort of just makes it look authentic. and and yeah, and then and then finding location. Luckily, we didn't have to go and shoot on a wind farm, but we did have to shoot in a porter cabin. and again, we didn't have the biggest of of budget. So I'm struggling to sort of find somewhere that that would look realistic. And actually it turned out that my children's school, primary school down the road, have a porter cabin. And now, does it look like it could be in the middle of a of a wind farm in Texas. May maybe, maybe not. But if you if you're careful with how you frame it, and then you've got all the authentic stuff in the background, the American accents that aren't faked by a British person, even though some Brits can do great American accents, but they're really authentic. So anyway, long story short, school said yes. We gave them a a token gesture of money, which they were very happy with. But turn this around in in the space of less than two weeks, which was no mean feat. So I have lots of little stories like that, but I'm I am very proud of that actually, because that was that was an example of, you know, being amenable, obviously, but but having a you know, a go getting attitude, trying to problem solve. and I and I thrive Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: in that. I quite I quite enjoy that. And and obviously it you know, it wasn't just me, it was it was a a group of people that made that happen. So that was that was a lot of fun, yeah. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Wow, yeah, lots of fun trying to recreate Stew O'Reilly: Stressful, but fun. Yeah. Granger Forson: America in the UK and make that happen. Well, brilliant. Well done, you. Stew O'Reilly: Y yeah, thank you. Granger Forson: So for the business, what are you trying to achieve Stew O'Reilly: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: maybe over the next 12 months and why? Stew O'Reilly: I think I I would I would love to just keep on working with with the clients and businesses that I work with. I've struck up some really great relationships and partnerships over over the last, as I say, nine years, but specifically the last five, I'd say. So I would love that to continue. I think it's funny because I you know maybe this Maybe, you know, we'll talk about this in in a bit more detail as well. But I'm not I don't have aspirations to run this massive, massive business. I don't I don't want that because I think I I I also want a certain level of work-life balance. you know, my kids are very important to me, my family's very important to me. so I I I find that there are there are moments when balance kind of tips in the wrong direction. Sometimes you you're working too much or you're not working enough. So I would like that level of consistency. I I do feel that sometimes I've I have been in the past a bit of a bottleneck for for the business. When when we've been busy, everything has to come through me because I'm I am I am the sole person responsible for all these roles. but but but you know it's a very small fantasy, but my my fantasy sincerely is having two members of staff and producing more videos. every every month. and just having a just a a thriving, successful, yeah, little business. And I and I think I think I am that, but I but but things are more sporadic and I would like them to be a Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: bit more consistent, I think. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Yeah, no, that's great. And we are as small business owners we are, you the bottlenecks in our systems, you know, but we have to realize Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: that and know how to manage it and organize our structures and our times. And sometimes we get that wrong. You know, working with a number of my clients, I'm often helping them to really just sort of understand the priorities and the structures, because there's always everything to do, but we have to decide. But Every business has to decide, know, even bigger businesses, we still have to prioritise and still do that. So it's not an unknown skill. It's just sometimes we think we're unique being in the middle of it all. We're actually, you know, we just need to work that through. So brilliant. OK, let's move on Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, of Granger Forson: to Stew O'Reilly: course. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: Act 2 now, your journey. So, know, ups and downs of the business. Yeah, running a small business. There are always highs and lows. What are the sort of highs Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: and lows have you experienced over the last few years? Stew O'Reilly: So I would say I would I would say the highs. again, it's it's funny. I I don't know other people's experiences, but I can s you know, f speaking from my own experience, that a bit of a turning point for me was was the pandemic when when COVID happened. I would I would sort of say that that was weirdly the kind of fire that that lit the fuse well the yeah, the the fire that lit the fuse for for home run films. I got I got a lot busier. I guess because in the world that I work in in learning development, we were all a bit blindsided by what to do and we weren't able to get in the same rooms as one another. So the virtual sort of solution came up quite quick. So I I I did benefit off that, I I would say. So so in terms of highs, It's funny, I just so I work with one of my best friends who I went to university with. he's a regular camera operator and sort of my trusted right hand man. And my cousin as well, my younger cousin Adam that comes comes on projects now and again. And I'd say that that's a real high for me is working with Granger Forson: Mm. Stew O'Reilly: people that I that I love and care about. that I I I never ever don't take it, don't appreciate it when I'm with my friend Will. and we're driving somewhere and we're going, this is crazy. We went to university together, we've known each other all this time. We've been godparents, best men at us ushers at weddings, and we're we're still get the opportunity to work together. So that so that for me, I know that's not a kind of commercial high, but but I love I love that. I I really I really enjoy that aspect of it. Yeah. Granger Forson: No absolutely it's the human connection that we have through business as well they are massive highs I totally agree with that. Stew O'Reilly: Totally. And and just and just again, I was speaking to a friend about this the other day. You know, the other part of what I do is is is work as a as a as a coach and a business actor and and and facilitator and and you know, again, as I say, using drama as a as a means to, you know, help bring learning to life through through various various means. but you know, again and get to work doing what I set out. to do. You know, it may not be exactly the aspirations that I anticipated as as a as a young actor where, you know, I'd be in Hollywood and I'd be on TV all the time and and this kind of thing. I, you know, certainly not not that, but that I get to make a living out of acting and storytelling and drama and and filmmaking. I mean it's that that's that's just for me. That's the high and the people that I get to work with. I guess lows are It's probably more around I for me, I guess, yeah, the sporadic nature of stuff. I I I'm you know, touch wood, I haven't had any really, really quiet periods and I haven't had any disasters. Again, touch wood. but I but I think that yeah, l lows for me ha have been when it's been a bit more uncertain. And and and I would say that that's that's started to creep in more than it ever has actually in the last sort of eight months or so. I'm very lucky that I have two things that I do. So my coaching and active facilitator work tends to supplement my film business. and but then there are times when that is just doing so so well that I could kind of take a my foot off the gas with the other one. So I'm having to sort of, yeah. I th I think rethink at the moment w where I'm going and and how I start to Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: sort of get back to where I was a few years ago because I was, as I say, very, very busy and and and not so much now. could be who knows. put my finger in the air and try to work out why that is. But Granger Forson: Yeah, Stew O'Reilly: yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: I mean, over time, know, within our businesses, you've talked about the two different things that you do, but we evolve Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: and we change what we actually sell. what have you changed over time and why did you do that? Stew O'Reilly: I think I think I have offered maybe a more ambitious solution in in terms of filmmaking. i w when when I started, I I was learning on the job as well. You know, I I don't have a filmmaking qualification per se. I I was an actor and and and what and loved video cameras and stuff, but I was an enthusiast in that in that respect. So I have obviously skilled up massively in the last decade w with that. So beforehand I was I had the the ability, I guess, to to under because I had a business background as well, understand understand how to I understood I understood learning, how to understood how to tell a story, I understood drama, script writing, et cetera, et cetera. But when it actually came to physically producing the content that we had won, I started off with much lower spec, easier to use cameras. I couldn't edit necessarily, so I get will to do those types of things. And as I evolved and learnt on the job, I became much more proficient and I guess professional in being able to do all of those things. So I guess for me personally, that's where I've that's where I've evolved and where where I've where I've changed. Yeah. yeah. Does that answer the question? Did I did I s yeah, yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, but yeah it does. you've brought more the service in-house and built the quality and the structure of it from doing that as you developed over time. But doing that Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: brings its own pressure. Things go wrong. Where do things sort of typically still maybe go wrong when you're under pressure? Stew O'Reilly: I think it it mo it it it would probably be communication. Ironically, is the man that's talking about being a communicator. Granger Forson: Ha ha. Stew O'Reilly: I'm not not necessarily saying I own that that miscommunication. I think it's a it's a collective thing, isn't it? when you are working with Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stew O'Reilly: a group of people. Yeah. and Yeah. That's that's Granger Forson: We call it ambiguity, so we fully appreciate that. There's two of us in our business, the stronger business together, and we still have a waste of ambiguity and we challenge each other every week. How can we Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: improve what we did last week to reduce ambiguity? It's always there, so yeah, I get that. Stew O'Reilly: De definitely. And and and you know, in even even you can you can understand sometimes how that can happen in the spoken word, but when it's in the written word and there's still ambiguity, it's funny. But again, it comes to what you're reading between the lines, what your own kind of mindset is on that day, or what pressures you've got on. So I think I think there have been I've been certainly holding my hand up to it as well, but there have been times when I and a teammate or I and a client or collectively between us all have misunderstood each other. Which has never it's always been ironed out and and never ended in a negative way, but has led to awkward moments occasionally, I guess. yeah. Not Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: not not not fun, but it's learning, isn't it? It's it's how you it's how you Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: learn and it's a human experience. Granger Forson: And there are also things in our business that sap our energy and we have to get it done at some point. What have you removed or outsourced to give you energy back in your business? Stew O'Reilly: not enough, probably. My in my busy in my busy times. I do, I do, I'm sure you you're the same, Grangy. I'm I'm I'm sure with with your business you you often get and I don't have any problem with it, everyone's trying to make a living. but I do get I do I do get approaches, either cold approaches on email or on LinkedIn and stuff, you know. sort of try, you know, I I don't know, administrative sort of services and and and things like that. Or you can always tell when people really don't know what you're doing because obviously it's just so off the mark in terms of what they're offering. So I do ignore those. But for those that that that that do offer sort of a bit more support in either marketing or website stuff or you know social media, et cetera. I haven't really taken anyone up on any of that so far, but I think the if I was the core of what I do, I guess, is writing, design, actually filmmaking, and then the edit. So Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: the the editing is has been something that I've been more happy to, you know, before I in in a video business, if you're commissioning a video, the majority of the the fee or the budget is is editing because post production is so much longer than, you know, normally you film for a day, but then you could be doing post production for Four days, five days, ten days, twenty. So it depends on the scale of the project. But it's disproportionately large. So that's where you make a bit more money. So that was the bit I wanted to own. But the busier I've got, the more I've been okay with letting other people edit. So I I guess that's probably where I've offloaded a little bit more Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: now, yeah, to other people. Granger Forson: Yeah, we have to find those elements because otherwise the business doesn't grow and we are, as you say, we become the bottlenecks. Yeah, I'm often having that conversation with my clients. So AI, yeah, AI video, it's everywhere. Lots of people call it Stew O'Reilly: Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: slop, but you know, that's the wrong type of it. How do you use AI to actually help your processes to make things simpler for you or you? different opinions on AI, what's your use? Stew O'Reilly: I I not to not to sit on the fence, I don't I don't feel honestly hand on heart that I that I'm informed enough to really have a strong opinion about it. but but yes, I d I I I have used AI, not not in any way to produce video. The only time I've ever really used AI is to well, I think the first time I ever used Chat GPT was when I had a had a an unfortunate encounter with someone on the side of my son's football pitch. and you know knew what I wanted to say but wanted to put it in a more diplomatic kind of way to the chairman of the football club. So that was my first foray into Chat GPT, I think. but yeah I've I've I've used it to sometimes, you know, I I I understand that it's all around very good prompting. you know, and refining those prompts and giving as much detail and and and role to the to the you know what what you want it to play for you as possible. So I feel like we when I when I have used it, it's not been so much that I've just allowed it to do all my work for me. I've I've invested time, but I just want a bit of help in, I don't know, producing a a framework of a scenario. So for example, say say I I don't know, I was producing something on Yeah, I don't a difficult conversation between a senior manager and and and a team member or something, or someone's not performing well, or someone said something inappropriate to another colleague. I've got all ideas of what I want it to to look like and sound like and stuff. And I might go just just produce me a kind of a rough two page kind of like three page script. And obviously Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: it comes out awful. but but it's it but what it is good enough at is is is producing the script very, very quickly. So all of a sudden, you know, you've saved yourself, I guess, a couple of hours of formatting and structure and and you know and things like that. So I but I don't tend to to use that very much because actually for me, I really love the process of coming up with ideas from nothing. I so I don't really want to offload that and give that to to something that's you know inauthentic. Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: But I but I do, yeah, of course I see the advantages of it of it in some ways. I mean, you know, when it comes to video replacing video, I've actually I've I've actually made a couple of kind of funny humorous kind of sketches recently on on LinkedIn where I play like the central character and it's often about his experience of navigating work and family life and things, you know, all the things that we who who work hybridly. understand that that work life balance and Granger Forson: Yep. Yep. Stew O'Reilly: and and and and a couple of them are around the kind of like the you know the AI it started to infiltrate your life. So I've kind of poked fun at it a little bit. but yeah I just I just think it has no it has no authentic human experience. I know it's drawing upon lots of human inputs, but it's not a sentient being. It's not something that's ever laughed or cried at anything. And I think, you know regardless of whether it's helpful, I think as an audience member, I would want to feel like what I am watching has been crafted, built, you know, brainstormed, had sweat Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: and, you know, pain and and and frustration and triumph and all those types of things by by human beings. so that's where I where I kind of sit on it more broadly. But Yeah, I don't I don't really intend to I definitely don't intend to use it for video. I have created a few images, which actually on my last video on LinkedIn was all about how AI can go wrong if you let it go wrong. So I I've used it recently for that. but it was more more of a comical poking fun at it. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, we used it mainly as a way of speeding up processes. So Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: we understand our end to end and we use it at key points and we know the key points where the human has to make the decision and we know the points where actually we can speed it up and make things happen faster for us. So it's an enabling tool. That's how we see it and that's how we're using it. So it's a It can be a great tool to help simplify things, analyze data for you, find things information quicker. So it's a very Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: useful tool, it's again learning how to use it and when the human needs to be human and when we can just let it do that work for us. So brilliant. Okay, let's Stew O'Reilly: A hundred percent. Granger Forson: move on to Act 3 now, our hurdle. So what's the hurdle you've brought with us to discuss today? Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, so I I was thinking about this and I think the probably the most d despite the growth and and and and the great clients that we've tended to work with, I I I think my my my hurdle has and always will or has and always has been so far, working directly for the end client. So what I The way that my business tends to run is on referrals and can be quite reactive. So Granger Forson: Yep. Yep. Stew O'Reilly: some of the learning development businesses that I work with or clients that I work with will have large clients and then they'll come to them and they'll say, We need a video. And then they call me. So we work as sort of like I guess a three, three, a three-way kind of you know, triad, trio type thing. Being the one man band, you know, stew from home run films, even though I have the credentials and the portfolio, I guess, it's it's how how do I get my foot in the door with those large businesses directly? So they're commissioning me to make videos for them directly. I think that's that's that's the thing I've not been able to achieve so far. Yeah. Granger Forson: Okay, so the hurdle is how do we move from that third party supplier into that sort of direct service supplier type relationship. Okay, okay. Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's not that I don't enjoy still working as a third party supplier, but it's the how do I yeah, exactly. How do I get more of that direct work? Yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, because but the direct work won't necessarily be replacing the third party work because, Stew O'Reilly: No. Granger Forson: if I'm a big company, I will go to a provider of my platform and say we need this training and they'll come to you to have the video built. What we're talking about is building that relationship for all those other videos that they may want within their business as well, aren't we? OK, Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, precisely. Exactly. Granger Forson: so let's talk about where we are today. So I always call this Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: the starting condition. So today, out of maybe over the last couple of years, how many direct supply work have you done versus the sort of third party supply work? Stew O'Reilly: I would say last few years b well, I mean probably more percentage than a number, I would say I would say seventy five, twenty five in favor of the third party work. Yeah. Granger Forson: Okay, And where would you like it to be then? Looking forward maybe one, two years time, maybe two years. What would be the sort of split ratio there? Stew O'Reilly: I think the other way around, seventy-five Granger Forson: Okay. Stew O'Reilly: twenty five, because you know, we all know that the phrase, you know, putting your eggs in one basket. my eggs have been in, you know, more than one, but but not enough baskets. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah. Stew O'Reilly: so yeah, so seventy five, twenty-five, I think, in the other way. Yeah. Hmm. Mm. Granger Forson: Okay, so those 25 % think of two of those customers in your head. We don't need their names on the Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: podcast. But think about in the head, how did you move from a third party supply into direct supply? Or was it you started the direct supplier? How did that relationship form? Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, I started the direct supply. So that there have been there have been occasions, not many, but there have been occasions where people have found out that I do that I run my own business. and I've come through the th the other the other party and then they've tried to engage me. Now I just ethically I can't it I mean it wouldn't be worth it anyway. It's too risky, but but also ethically I just don't think that that's right. You know, if if I've worked with this business and I've had some commercial success through their client, I can't then go and pick put so so that's a no-go zone for me. so it's it it's often only ever been through a referral or someone's found me. the w the the way that I started started off it was I was doing a lot of grafting myself, but I had a I had a wonderful and I'm very sad to say he's no longer with us. friend and sort of wasn't a mentor specifically, ran a very different business to me, but he was a f old friend of my dad's. And he was just the kind of guy that that was so interested in people and loved connecting people. And I credit him hugely with facilitating a couple of opportunities for me early on. where I was I was saying before, I made a couple of videos for charities and he he was sort of a trustee. So rather than them pay someone for it, he said, I'll get a video made for you and he paid me a small fee to make it. But what it gave me was the opportunity to make films, get a start a portfolio so I had something to talk about and show and show for it. So Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: the that I that was a a I guess an example of some one individual that had was looking out for my interests, as as I say sadly, best him is not not here anymore. Granger Forson: Okay. Stew O'Reilly: But but the other but the other thing has been, yeah, as I say off the back of someone might have mentioned me from another organization. or a lot of my associates who I work with in the training world have been in a conversation, someone said, Do you know any video producers? And they've said, Stu, so it's come around that way. So it's often referrals, yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, so referral marketing is a very valid way of building and growing businesses. I've met a number Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: of businesses over time who only do referral marketing. Now, Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: what we have to understand is referral marketing. is a method, a process in its own right. It's not just something that happens to happen. Now initially it sort of feels like it just happens to happen but there is a method and a structure to it. So when we think about referral marketing, there are some key elements that we need to do every single week, every single day, every single month. So those Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: are, first of all, making sure that we have conversations with people who could either one, make referrals for us so they have contacts. So you talked about this gentleman who had those contacts that made that happen. or within businesses that we have worked with that have done referrals or we've done that direct work with. It's building that relationship with them over time so they understand that, yes, Stu does more and can do these other things, so you're keeping them on top of mind. Or it's also about keeping them top of mind of, yeah, I know somebody who, another business owner who needs this type of help and I can refer Stu to them. So within your methods today of marketing, how much time do you put aside? How much focus do you put on referral marketing activities? Stew O'Reilly: I I'm pleased to say it's not non existent. So I do I do do a bit Granger Forson: Excellent. Stew O'Reilly: of referral marketing, I guess. I it it's it's very informal. I guess I will because the success of my business solely depends on me, really, the buck stops with me. I Granger Forson: Yeah, yep, and it does, yep. Stew O'Reilly: yeah, I I you know, I am proactive in that sense. So I'm always trying to balance the kind of not being needy and not being a pest with So I have a bit of a I have a list where I know when I've lost approach someone or chase them on something. So I'm careful not to make that too, too consistent. you know, it can be through WhatsApp, it could be through it through an email every now and again. but I but I I guess I would say, yeah, I don't intentionally sit down every week and go, right, this is a this is a exercise that I'm gonna work through. Who am I chasing this week? it's an organic list and I and I do and I am on top of it. I just don't really make it a a marketing activity or or a specific activity every day. So it comes in the form Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: of, yeah, like a a WhatsApp here and there or maybe an e an email or or something like that. Granger Forson: And that's the difference. If you were Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: doing marketing, let's say we're doing social media, you'd be driving so Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: many posts per day, per week, per month. If Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: you had a cold outreach call center, you would be making cold 20 phone calls per day. So these methods already exist. We just don't see that within referral marketing. So often with referral marketing, it's OK. Every Monday at two o'clock I sit down for one hour. I go through my list and identify who's the two people that I'm going to reach out to this week and just say hi because it's that element. It's not necessarily chasing them for work. It's not chasing them saying it's just saying hi this is Stu. I recently did this here's something you might be interested in that I've recently done or it could be love to have a quick coffee with you. Let's have an e-coffee if they're in a different part of the country. Let's catch up and see how you're doing. So it's just nurturing that activity because what that does is even if they don't say yes at that moment in time because maybe they're really busy in the next few weeks etc. What it does is it brings you to top of mind again. It just brings you back to top of mind so next time they're thinking yes Stu contacted me. this is what we need to do. It's building that activity of one-to-ones is the most important thing with referral marketing and putting that in place rather than doing social media content, et cetera. So it's a valid activity. We just have to learn the rules of it, and then we have to put those rules in place and make that happen. Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, no, that that that makes a lot of sense. And I and I think it it's funny. It's probably more down to my own I g I guess discomfort or w you know wh well as I said before, where I don't I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: be a pest. You know, I I find I find that even with social media is like, you know, do I have anything important or exciting or interesting Granger Forson: But. Stew O'Reilly: to say? I don't wanna look like, you know, show off or anything like that. So Granger Forson: you've already had a relationship with them because they've bought something from Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: you so you've already got a relationship with them okay Stew O'Reilly: Sure, yeah. Granger Forson: so you're just nurturing that on a six monthly basis or a quarterly Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: basis you're catching up with them you're seeing what's going on in their world yeah finding Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: out what their problems are currently not that you're looking to sell but you're just trying to nurture keeping that that relationship going because it's the relationship which will then drive further opportunities of sales either through their business or other businesses and that that's what we will which constantly trying to do how you do that that's experiments you do, that's what you try and work out over time, we're all different Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: how we do it, we all have different styles and different approaches, but it's that again repetitive activity that we just have to do of doing that. as one of my favorite gurus online, I've followed him for many many years, he said his aim is to make a boring business and that's because Stew O'Reilly: Right. Granger Forson: it's not boring, but it's just boring. Every single day we're doing the same activities because that's what we have to do, whether that's creating videos, creating scripts, editing, etc. Doing our social outreach, doing our connections, building those one-to-ones, relationships. They're all things that we have to do. We just have to do it on a regular basis. And that's when sometimes businesses can get boring, but they're not boring because actually that's what drives the opportunity to make money and to fulfill the needs that we want from our businesses. Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, definitely. And and as you say, there's you know, we talked before about a bottleneck, didn't we? And and sometimes when when things are busy, that can be one of the first things to go 'cause it's a you s consider it a nice to have, but actually it's not a nice to have. It's a it's a fundamental ac activity part of, you know, building your business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: Absolutely. Yes. And you can set a range. So I have Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: busy weeks when I'm working with my clients and I have non-busy weeks where I've only got one or two connections to make. But every week we'll make our social connections, we'll do our reach out, we'll put that structure in place. So in our quiet weeks that'll be three times as much as in our non-quiet weeks. So you can flex the amount you do depending on your capacity that you've got. But it's the fact that you do it every single week becomes a habit, becomes that structure of making that happen. So Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: based on that and that thinking, what would be your experiment next week? Stew O'Reilly: I think well I think to try try to build that in as as a as a weekly activity. it yeah, that there there's there's a there's a there's a training program that that I've been running not that long ago actually that this sort of preaches that exact behavior is about, you know, ch and and the f the irony again, you know, that I'm sort of talking about it, but I'm not saying it myself. Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: We always do that, right? So I know in principle that's the right thing to do. So Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: yeah, so so yeah, make a commitment to myself to to you know start looking at that that database, that that CRM or my very basic version of that. and yeah, and s and start to work through the the last people that I've been most recently in in touch with, those that I haven't. I guess it's also thinking about what are those links with what successes Have you had recently that are personal or relevant to what they might be doing? I I I've always, you know, w we always talk so much in the work that we do around being curious and and that curiosity. And there's a Granger Forson: Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: great person that I work with who's been doing learning development a lot longer than me, who who, you know, when you when you start off, you're a bit younger, a bit more naive, and you don't really sort of understand. immediately it's not until you've got a bit more experience that it the things start to land and and make sense. But he always said to me that, you know, I just never go in there selling. And I thought, well, yeah, that's easy, isn't it? Of course you don't you know, you've got the luxury of having a successful Granger Forson: Ha Stew O'Reilly: business and you don't have to sell. I have to sell because I need the work. but I totally understand what he meant by his mindset of just, you know, just just talk and just get Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Stew O'Reilly: to know people. I l ask them questions, listen. because people can always tell when you're selling. But equally it's okay, I guess, if people do know that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: And that's exactly what referral marketing is. It's building a relationship. It's connecting over time, building that relationship. So people then think Stew O'Reilly: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: about you when they have that opportunity. you were saying about, Stew O'Reilly: Definitely. Granger Forson: we know this stuff, there's a wonderful quote from Alex Hormozi, he's built a Stew O'Reilly: Mm. Granger Forson: multi-million dollar turnover business, and he says, people think you fail because there's some secret list that you don't know about. Actually people fail because it's a known list that nobody does anything about. We know what we need to do, Stew O'Reilly: That's right, sure, sure. Granger Forson: we just need to do it. So brilliant. Stu Stew O'Reilly: Yeah. Granger Forson: let's do our wrap up and close now. So what did Stew O'Reilly: Yeah, great. Granger Forson: you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Stew O'Reilly: Wow. that surprised me. Do know, maybe maybe it's more around when you ask me the question of highlights and highs and lows and things. And and I and I I I think I know this instinctively, but I d don't really sit down and reflect too much or deeply on who I who I work with and and and how much how important that that part of it of it is for me in what in in my fulfillment and and and what I do and and and the passion I get from from that. So I think it doesn't surprise me, but saying it out loud, yeah, now it now it does make it does make sense. That's that's like I say, a ri a really big part of of of what drives me. And and that and that kind of links to I guess the the nature of just making just having good experiences. I I know that sounds so wishy washy but but a lot a lot of what I do I I always try to inject eject a sense of fun and and and humour and and and and goodwill and stuff and and I and I I'm not saying that's particularly niche or anything, but that's just, you know, it's an underlying philosophy and and I and I think it's just sort of reaffirmed that that, you know, you can get very lost in what you do sometimes. And it's so it's nice to sort of just reflect and step back and go, actually, you know, there's some really good things and and I and I am still doing it for the right reasons. So yeah, yeah, that probably needs to hear that again. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Brilliant. And Stu, finally, how can people get hold of you and follow more of your journey? Stew O'Reilly: Sure. So so we'll have a website, homerunfilms.co.uk. it's probably the best way to see some of my work and what I do. And then there's a Vimeo channel that has a fair amount of videos. Obviously, it goes without saying that because so much of my work is training videos, a lot of it isn't online because it's not allowed to be, because it's internally protected Granger Forson: Yep. Stew O'Reilly: and NDA'd and things like that. But there's enough on there. Another way is LinkedIn. So I'm I think I'm on LinkedIn as Stuart O'Reilly, not Stu O'Reilly. So most of my friends and colleagues call me Stu, but my full name is Stuart. So Stuart O'Reilly on LinkedIn and you'll see yeah, a ton of videos. I've been a lot more active on there recently with with posting videos, so a lot of my stuff is there as well. yeah, yeah, that's the two best ways, I think. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Well, Stu, thank you so much for being open and honest. I know our listeners will have a lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Stew O'Reilly: No, thank you too, Granger. I've really enjoyed having our chat. It went so quickly as well. So I really appreciate you you having me on. I really, I really loved it. Thank you so much. Granger Forson: Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, please like, comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. About 60 % of our audience hasn't done that yet and these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. If you want to join the conversation as a guest, or if you have a hurdle question for us to tackle in a future episode, do reach out to us at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now, go make this week really successful and we'll see you next time. Cheers!