Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Jess Stuhler on African-Made Overland Accessories, Roof Tents, and Exploring with Family

Transcript

Jess Stuhler on African-Made Overland Accessories, Roof Tents, and Exploring with Family · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by Jess Stuhler. Now,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Jess runs a company called EZON, but he's been a
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: longtime friend. I've known Jess for just about 20 years,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and we've done extensive travel in all of Southern Africa
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and also in the United States. Now, what makes Jess
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: very unique is really their discipline around making Authentic Overland Equipment.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: This is not a podcast about EZON, but it is
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: certainly a podcast around how Jess got involved with EZON,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: how he took the company over from his dad, who's
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: been running it for 40 years, and also how Jess
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: learned how to produce such high-quality components. We talk a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: lot about Jess's travels. We talk a lot about the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: ethos of high-quality equipment. what makes South African equipment unique
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in the world, also some of the things that Jess
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: has learned about traveling with his family. So please enjoy
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: my wide-ranging conversation with Jess Stuhler.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Jess, thanks so much for being on the podcast today
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: with me. I appreciate it. I've known you and your
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: family for coming on 20 years now, and I have
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: such respect for your dad, Jack, and such respect for you.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And I've learned a lot from you, not only about
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: how things are made in Africa, but how South Africans
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: travel overland. So let's talk a little bit about what
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: was your first memory of overlanding that you can recall?
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, gee, Scott, that goes back years.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: So the thing is, from when I was born, Dad
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: was traveling. You know, he was already going to Botswana
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: and he's going to Namibia and stuff like that. So
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: we used to take Series 1 Land Rovers and we
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: used to go to Botswana. And in those days, it
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: used to take two days to get to Mound, you know.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: And, yeah, and, you know, we used.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: To, he used to bath me in a little, a
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: little bucket, you know, a little bucket next to, next
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: to the river and stuff like that.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: So, it goes back, it goes back long ways, you know.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: And in those days, my mom and my aunt, they
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: used to sit in the back with towels wrapped around
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: them because of the dust you know and we used
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: to silicone they used to get underneath and we I'd
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: shine the torch from the top and he'd go along
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: finding the holes and we used to silicone the whole
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: thing but we never ever got those series one Land
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Rovers to seal you know so it goes way back
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: you know it's yeah it's a part of it's a
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: part of my life you know and for you to
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: say that is something special.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Well you know Jess this time that we've had together
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've been to South Africa now, I think
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: we figured out 10 times, but every time I've come here,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: you and I have gone and done something neat together.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Like this trip right now, we're in the Waterberg and
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: we spent the whole day yesterday driving around in these
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: incredible vehicles and seeing a country that you were born
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: in and that you love, but that also I've come
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: to love in my life. And And I think that
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: there's something about not only South Africa for someone who
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: loves to travel, but the lessons that can be learned
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: from how South Africans overland because it was really the
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: South Africans and the Australians that started this whole thing.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, you guys were the ones, for you it
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: was camping, but it had to be overlanding because if
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you wanted to go see Botswana, you had to hop
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: in a series one Land Rover and drive for two days.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: Well, exactly that. And I think, you know, obviously, you know,
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: you're 100% correct. The Australians and the South Africans, I think,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: pioneered the markets. You know, in those days, you didn't
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: have the fridges and you didn't have all the amenities
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: that you got today. You know, you had a cooler
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: box with hot ice in it, you know, and you
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: used to wrap it in newspaper to give you.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: And by the end of the.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: Holiday, you didn't have cold food, you know, and you
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: used to have a bag, a hessian bag hanging on
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: your mirror.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: To give you, to give you cold water.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: So, um, but yeah, and, and, and for you to
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: come out and spend time with us is, is always,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's irreplaceable.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: So, so thanks.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, you, I know your time is, is, is always,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: you know, you're so busy and, and stuff like that.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: I always say to my wife, if I want to
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: know what the weather's like around the world, I speak
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: to Scott Brady. So, so, so, so, you know, the
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: thing is, is, is, is, you know, it's, so I really,
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I really, really, really thank you. I thank you from
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: the bottom of my heart for taking the time out.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: You know, Jess, I look back on, you know, it's
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: been 20 years doing this, and one of the very
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: first pieces of equipment that I got sponsored was an
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Ezeon 1200 tent. And this was back when Nathan Hinman
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: ran Pangea Expeditions. Now, contemporary to that, your dad had
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: started his big expedition in the Americas. And for me,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: there just wasn't a lot of content out there on that.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: And your dad was running a blog, if I remember
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: correctly at the time, and they would update with their photos.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So here I'm looking at, you know, Nathan Hinman and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: all of the stuff that he was doing with Pangea.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And then here's your dad taking this amazing land cruiser
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: up the length of the Americas. And so for me,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: easy on... was the high watermark of what I felt
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: was long-term durable overland camping equipment. And when I finally
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: got a chance to get that 1200 from Nathan, it
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: really did expose me for the very first time to
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: South African products. And there were other roof tent companies
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: at the time from South Africa that were also very good,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: but they were all known for being so durable. And
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: what do you think whether it's Ezeon or at the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: time Howling Moon or whatever, what do you think made
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: South African products so reliable and durable? What do you
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: think were some of the attributes that made those products
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: so effective?
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Well, I think first of all, I think what people
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: don't realize is the distances that we have. So if
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: you travel to Botswana or something like that, it's a
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: two-day trip to get anywhere. So you need a product
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: that can stand up to those conditions. And then obviously,
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, yes, Africa is starting to, is more and
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: more asphalt or tarred roads. But in those days, they
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: were all gravel roads. So that all determined on how
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: the product had to last. So it had to endeavor
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: all those things. And then what Easy On did at
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: the time was, we never invented the roof tent. The
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: roof tent was invented in the early 60s in Europe.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: But what we did was, we took the concept and
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: we put the bigger windows in it because of, obviously,
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: because of the temperatures that we have and we put
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: the window rods in, you know, and we changed the
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: hinges and we made everything aluminium so that it would
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: be lighter and we made the ladders able to fold
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: up and stuff like that.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: So, we played a big role in pioneering the roof tent.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: But we never invented the roof tent and then, obviously,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: we needed it to be able to go on a
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: trip for four weeks into Botswana and Namibia where there's
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: endless corrugations.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: And similar to what to, I think Australia.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Australia's also got miles and miles of corrugations if you
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: go out to Esrock or whatever. So I think they
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: also had similar things in mind and that's why I
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: think the Australian and South African products were the pioneers
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: in the industry and moving forward.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: And then obviously dad, he loves to travel.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: He's been traveling his whole life. So he traveled through
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: Africa twice. all the way to Europe, and then he
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: did the Americas, so he did Patagonia all the way
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: to Alaska, and I think that's when he met Paul
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: from Equipped, and they became friends, and Paul became a
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: distributor of ours in America, and we've been friends ever since.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it's interesting to see how everybody wants things
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: to go lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter. But unfortunately,
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: there is an up and a downside. Because obviously, as
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: you go lighter, there is a little bit of a
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: quality depreciation.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter how you... And when a roof tent
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: or any other tent is live on the vehicle, it's live.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: So it moves around. It shakes and it rattles. It's
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: not like a dome tent that you stick in the
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: back of your car.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: So true.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: So that's the problem.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And it's meant to last for years. I mean, I remember...
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I've seen... many easy on tents or other high quality
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: South African roof tents that have been on vehicles for
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: years around the world. And I believe it's the, it's
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: the thickness of the canvas. It's the fact that you
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: guys have such a heavy duty cover. So it can
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: actually take hold up to some brush scrapes in really
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: tight terrain. And then you guys use these high quality
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: mold resistant wood floors as well. And most of your products,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And they just really hold up over the long term.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here thinking, you know, a lot of
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the people in my life that I'm closest with actually
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: came because of that 1210. I mean, it is because
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Paul is behind the camera today. Paul is working as
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Paula today, producing the podcast, making sure it's continuing to record.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: But Paul reached out. Paul May from equip reached out
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to me because he saw that I had a 1200
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: EZ-ON that I had been using. I had a bunch
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: of imagery, and I was doing some cool stuff with it.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And he said, how can we help? And then through that,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: I got a chance to meet your dad, and then
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I got a chance to meet you. So these are
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: friendships that have lasted 20 years because of high-quality products.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: And I think high quality products tend to bring higher
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: quality people because they're trying to do something that they're
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: proud of and they're trying to do something that lasts
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: for their customers so that their customers get a good value.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So in my mind, anytime I interact with a higher
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: quality product, I mean, AEV is another great example and
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Dave Harriton and just people who really care about the
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: quality of the products that they make, they end up
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: being really high quality people. But, you know, the South
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: African stuff is really special. And what other, like when
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: you look back on those early trips, what were some
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: of the things that you used then that you still
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: use now? Like it really works.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Wow, that's, well, the thing is we were cooking this
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: morning on the squirtle.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there's a lot of things that I still use.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I still use my Coleman cooler box that I put
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: in the back of my car and it goes with
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: me everywhere.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I still like to use a bottle jack.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: I take the normal jack of a vehicle out or
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: I put it one side and I take a bottle
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: jack with a plank with me and everybody goes, geez,
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: why do you do that? I've just found it's the
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: easiest way to jack up a vehicle.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: There's so many things that I still stick with. I
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: think my wife looks at me and she thinks I'm crazy.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: But there's certain things with camping and stuff like that
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: where I just.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Like what I like.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: And I take those certain things with me all over
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: the place.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: In the time that I've known you, you have owned
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of Toyota Hilux. What is it that you...
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: find that you like most about the Hilux and what
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: are the things that you like to do to each
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: one of them like a like your standard modifications that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: you like to do to a Hilux.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: Well originally when when when I bought vehicles and stuff
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: like that I would always I would always put the
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: bumpers on and stuff like that and I'd go to
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: town but what I found is unfortunately is is that
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: the more weight you put on the less performance you
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: have And in some ways, it's a bit of a hindrance.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: And I like to, you know, we keep our Hiluxes
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: for two, three years, and then we move them on. Now,
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: the Hilux is a crazy vehicle because it doesn't do
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: everything perfect, but it does everything well.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And forever.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: And forever. So, 100%.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: So, you know, so if I had to buy a Hilux,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: you know, unfortunately or fortunately, you need to go up
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: with the suspension in the front slightly. They always dip
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: in the front. Toyota likes to increase the wheel size,
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: but I don't believe that helps the problem. So you
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: need to go up in the front. So whether you...
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: I normally go up with a rating of the springs
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: in the front.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: And then the springs at the back, I normally put
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: another leaf spring at the back. And that gives me...
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: I can carry anything up to 750 kilograms. So those
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: are the things that I do, and then I change
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: the tires out. I like BF Goodridges. I've always liked
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: BF Goodridges. We've traveled around the world with BF Goodridges.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: They're not the perfect tire, you do find that they
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: do slip a little bit in the wet.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: But they give.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: You 80,000 kilometers if you drive carefully and you swap
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: the tires around.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, they do last a long time.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: They do, you know.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: But, you know, like I was saying, I mean, the
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: last Hilux that I had was the Legend. And every
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: time that you buy one, you know, they, it's little
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: model changes, but they, it's crazy, but they, they definitely,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: that little bit, you know, it's either quiet, or it
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: handles better, or it does something, you know, so it's
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: a very special vehicle in my heart, even though, you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: I drive, I drive a lot of different vehicles, but,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: and it's, and it's, it's go anywhere ready, you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: you can, You can take it to the Gruger Park,
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: you can take it to Namibia, you can take it
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: to Botswana. Fuel consumption on average is between 10 and
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: 11 liters per 100.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: It'll sit at that all day. They never get hot
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: and they've never, ever, ever let me down.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I think that's the reason why so many people rely
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: on the Hilux. I think about when Greg and I
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: went across Antarctica with Expedition 7. We literally trusted our
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: life To a Hilux. And they never stop running. They
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: never stop working. They truly are amazing vehicles. And the
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: fact that you could hop in one. Like we've got
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a Hilux right now. From Overlanding with Bruce. So those
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: that are listening. Check out Overlanding with Bruce. He drives
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: a Defender 110.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: A new one.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: And he does some really cool stuff with it. So
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: it's neat to see him pushing that model. But then
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: he also rents. fully prepared expedition Hilux here in Africa. Um,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: and I've got one of them that I'm going to
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: be taking on a trip out to go see Kingsley
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Holgate in a few days. So, um, you know, the
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Hilux are just, they just are the workhorse of Africa.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: And that's why, I mean, I mean, you talk about Bruce,
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's an amazing person. He's a, he's a
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: friend of mine and he's an amazing person. And the
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: thing is, is, is, but the, the, what people don't
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: realize is all, most of all, 90% of the high
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: rental side of things all run Hiluxes. And, you know,
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: the crazy part is, you know, like if you take
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: a Legend, it comes with the driver's seat electric, but
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: the passenger seat not.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: So, you know, but they still are amazing vehicles.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: And 100%, Bruce now, I think he's on his six
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: Hilux and he went down to Cape Town now to
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: fetch one of them.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Um, hopefully you'll meet up with him when you get
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: back to Johannesburg.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Uh, but he, and he's done, he's done, he's done
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: some amazing trips and he's, he's traveled all around Africa
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: in Land Rovers. Um, and now he's got a few,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: a few Hiluxes and they, and don't get me, they've
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: also given him a little bit of troubles, but he
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: sorted it out. Um, but it, it, it is the
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: go-to vehicle for, for Africa. I think, I think because it's, it's, it,
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: it is expensive. It has becoming, it is becoming more expensive,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: but it's, It just does everything nice. You can use
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: it as a day-to-day driver, and you can also take
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: your kids away and stuff like that, and your wife
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: away on the weekends.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: And probably, I mean, the biggest issue with the Hilux
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: globally is theft. So, you know, you just had... The
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: one that I borrowed yours the last time I was
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: in Africa, not all that long ago, and I had
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: a beautiful drive with it, and it wasn't two weeks later,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and you're like, Scott, I'm so glad you got a
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: chance to drive the Hilux because it's gone.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: Well geez you know what so many people have come
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: into the company and some of my friends have said
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: to me listen i've lost my highlights i've lost my
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: car i've lost my land cruise and stuff like that
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: and i really you know you obviously feel sorry for
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: them but when it happens to you um and yes
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: i can buy another one but the crazy thing is
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: they they creep into your heart and you remember those
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: those amazing trips that you have you know i mean
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: my son and i went to We went to, with
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: a friend of mine, Graham Sharp, we went up into Zimbabwe,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: we went to Gona Rizzo and stuff together. And you
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: remember all those trips, you know, all those amazing trips
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: that you have in the vehicle, you know. So when
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: somebody takes it unexpectedly, it's not the most pleasant.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: No, and I think it is, you definitely get that
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: feeling of, like, violation. Like you've been, something, it's like
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a member of the family, a vehicle like that becomes,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: like you said, all the stories and, somebody takes it
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: from you and man, it, it, it probably feels, you
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: feel a little bit violated, you know?
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: A hundred percent. You know, the other thing is you,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: you haven't, you haven't sold it. So normally when I,
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: when I, when I look, I like to look after
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: my cars.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: I really do. Um, they're very precious to me.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: So, so the thing is, is, is because you haven't
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: sold it, it's like you're going to come home and
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: I didn't drive it every day.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: So you, you got to come home and it's going
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: to be standing in the garage, you know? So for
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: the first couple of months, you still, you still come
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: home and go, well, where is it?
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: So, so yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's the
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: craziest thing.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: And, and yes, like I said, you can, you can
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: replace it, but they all, they all have got a
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: little place in my heart. Um, and, and I think,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's why Bruce, he's, he's, uh, I mean,
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: this one, this one is, is, uh, they all got
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: their names. He's called them all their names because his
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: vehicles also got a place in his heart.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. You know? So quite the coup though,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: you are now currently driving a different pickup truck. What
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: are you driving now? Yeah.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: So the crazy part is I'm actually driving a Ford
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Raptor now.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it is a Ford Raptor. Yeah. So it's a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Ford Ranger Raptor. You guys get the Ranger.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: So we get the Ford Ranger Raptor. Um, and yes,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: it is, it is different. It is different.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Is it, is it, is it better? Maybe not, you know? Faster.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Definitely faster. Definitely faster. Fuel consumption is more.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: But it definitely puts a smile on your face.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: It's more like a car. And, you know, that's the
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: scary part.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: As much as we all like to say we spend
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: so much time in the bush and off-road and stuff
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: like that, at the end of the day, you know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: we all have to, well, I have to work for
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: a living. So you spend 80% or 90% on the
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: road and 10% in the bush.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: In reality..
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: So it is a very comfortable car. It hasn't given
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: me a day's trouble up to now. I've just done,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: I've done 10,000 kilometers. Um, and it's, it's, we've taken
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: it on a few trips already. Um, we had to,
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: we had to put, because obviously it's a trophy truck.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: It's not really designed for off-roading.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Um, I don't think.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: For overlanding so much.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: For overlanding, you know, so, so the tank, because of
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: the fuel consumption, the tank is, is a little bit small, 350.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: 50 Ks, yes, if you drive at 100, you most
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: probably will get 400 kilometers.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: But in reality..
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: You don't drive that fast.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: I don't drive at 100.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: So the thing is, we put airbags in the back
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: of it and we put another tank in it.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: So is it an auxiliary tank or is it just
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a larger main tank?
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's a larger main tank.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: So you basically take the tank out and it gives
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: you 140 liters from 85.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: That's a big jump.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: It's a big jump.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: And I get over 600 kilometers on it now, which
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: makes it accessible. You know, you can at least get
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: to places and so forth. So we'll see how it
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: stacks up. And obviously, they also steal Fords. but hopefully
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: they won't steal my one.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And it's a great looking truck. I remember when we
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: went out to dinner the last time I was here
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: and you picked me up in the Raptor and you
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: had a big smile on your face. I think you'd
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: only had it for a couple of weeks, maybe a
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: month or something like that. You had really been having
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: a fun time with it. And they're an impressive vehicle
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: on mixed terrain. In 2020... um, when I was here,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: when COVID was just kicking off the day, the day
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I left for the airport, I got a chance to
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: drive the Ranger Raptor at speed at a test track
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: here in South Africa. And I was really impressed for
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: a factory midsize vehicle, uh, that it performed that well.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: So yeah, really good.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent, you know, and then look, I had
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: the Hilux with it.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Um, so obviously I was enjoying both wolves, but, uh,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: somebody decided to, to take my Hilux away from me.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: So we'll sit back and we'll wait and let's see
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: how it pans out. So yeah, I'm enjoying it.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: As it goes.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit. You've been able to
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: travel a lot with your wife and with your two kids.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: You and your wife's story is really special. You guys
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: met when you were 13 years old and you guys
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: have now been together for a huge portion of your life.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: how is it that you find as a family that
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: you guys optimize back country travel, overland travel together? How
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: do you incorporate the kids? How do you make the
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: experience as enjoyable as possible for your family when you travel?
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Well, look, the crazy part is because my son and
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: my daughter have grown up with me, you know, so
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: now when we travel, I mean, we literally, it's almost
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: like they know exactly what to do, you know, so
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: So they know exactly what to do when we get
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: to a campsite. They know what to take out. They
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: know what to put back. Everybody does their little piece.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: It's absolutely crazy. I mean, you know, when my son
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: and I, the family traveled together, they're now getting big.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, my son's now 21 and my daughter's 24.
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: She's just moved out with her boyfriend into a flat,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: which is very different because we're a very close-knit family.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Which is something I've always just so respected about your
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: family in general. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: So the thing is, now when we travel, we actually
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: have to travel in two cars because my.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Son's got a girlfriend and my daughter's got the boyfriend.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: But it's still great. It's still great.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: It makes things interesting. But up until that stage, what
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: we would do is we would have two roof tents
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: on the vehicle. Because a lot of people say, I
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: want a family roof tent. But what people don't realize
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: with the big tents is, you get to a stage
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: where your kids are of six and seven and eight.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: And they want to be in their own tent. Whether
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: it's a dome tent or a roof tent or whatever
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: it is, they want to be in their own tent.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: And the bigger tents, the very big tents, is I
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: say go to 1,800. And then after that, the 2.2s,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: the very big tents, they're not that easy to sell.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Or set up.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: It's more material. It's more everything. It's more weight. And
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: not every vehicle can carry them.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: So I always say to people, well, they have two
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: smaller tents and then you know if the kids move
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: out then they use their own tents you know so
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: but at this stage so what happens is we we
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: would we traveled with two smaller tents um for a
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: lot of our travels um that we did and uh
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: yeah that worked out pretty well.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: You know and what what do you think um when
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: you look back on the time traveling with your wife
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: and your kids how did that change you as a person.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: Oh geez you know the thing is is yeah i
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: think People don't understand traveling with your kids. And the
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: nice part about it is if your kids enjoy what
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: you enjoy. And it seems like they do. Oh, they do.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: And that's the other thing is you always hope that
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: your kids enjoy what they do.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: And they have always. He's always enjoyed the motorbike side
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: of things. He loves cars and he loves fishing.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: And then you get to a stage where you're scrambling
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: to keep up with it. So it's got its pros
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: and its cons. And my daughter as well. I mean,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: they love the outdoors, you know. So I think my
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: wife would spend more time outdoors than indoors, you know.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, you know.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: But what a blessing for you that you love the outdoors, camping, overlanding,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: and your whole family loves it just as much as
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you do.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: You know, the thing is, is what people don't realize
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: in the early days, we could have, you know, we
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: could have, marketed that marketed but we just we just
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: love we just got passionate you know to to see
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: our products anywhere in the world you know you i've
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: been to vegas on the strip and i've seen my
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: tents in vegas you go to you go to london
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: and you see the tents in london yeah and then
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: and then to chat to people around the world and
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: to to to and and to meet people like paul
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: paul paul may from from equipped and stuff like that
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: and to meet yourself unbelievable people so it's it's been
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: an absolute pleasure and an absolute adventure, you know, and we, yeah,
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: to do the things we do, you know?
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're so lucky. And that was actually how I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: met Paul Marsh too, because we were getting the Land Cruiser,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: or we were trying to get the Land Cruiser ready
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: for Antarctica, and the outfit that was going to do
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: the work for us didn't work out. And sure enough,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Paul Marsh stepped up, showed up at the Ezeon shop,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: and we got that thing ready for Antarctica in, what,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: a couple weeks, yeah.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Well, Paul's somebody special, and he's a very special person.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: I chatted to him the other day. I chatted to
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: him before Christmas. He was now in New Zealand on
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: doing a trip to the historic cars again, him and Joe.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're lovely people, and for those that are listening,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Paul Marsh was on the podcast a couple times. We
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: talked about 70 Series Land Cruiser, and we also did
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: an interview with Paul specifically, so I'd recommend people listen
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: to that, because that That guy's forgotten more than I've
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: ever learned in my life about overlanding, so he's truly
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: a legend.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Well, look, I think he's 100%, and his experiences, I
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: actually don't know of somebody else that has that much
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: experience on a mechanical side and then on a trip side.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he has them both, because sometimes you'll find people
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that travel a lot, but they're not very strong mechanically,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: or people who are very effective as mechanics or as engineers, designers.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: But then they don't have the travel experience. And Paul's
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: definitely one of those rare, rare ones that has it
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: both in spades. Correct.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Nine hundred percent. Yeah. So continuing on the theme of family,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: you get to work with your dad. So your dad
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: founded EZON. And what would that be? We're coming on
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: 50 years, right? Aren't we?
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're not quite 50 years. We're 40 years
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: last year.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: 40 years last year.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: So it was 40 years last year. Obviously, we've been
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: traveling a lot before that. But so easy on is
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: 40 years old. So this year will be 41 years,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: which I think is quite a milestone.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: I think there's very few companies that have reached those milestones.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: He's getting on in years.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Still traveling, still traveling. His vehicle's standing behind us.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the 300 Series Land Cruiser behind us belongs to him.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: So thanks, Jack, for letting me borrow your car.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so he's still an avid traveler. He's got some
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: trips planned this year. He's going to Caligari and stuff
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: like that. It worries me a little bit because, I mean,
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: he's 86 this year, you know, so... It does worry
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: me a little bit.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: You've got to do it, though.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: You've got to go.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: You've got to get out there. And I don't think
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: anything will stop him. I think you must, I don't
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: want to be funny, but you must probably die on
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: the road.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: That's probably what he hopes for, doing something he loves.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: So we've got a very, very special bond. I mean, yeah,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: he's got a very special place in my heart.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Well, so talk to me a little bit about how
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: did you start working with your dad? Did he just
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: have you doing the shipping or, like, How did you
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: get into, because now you run the business. So how
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: did he bring you into the business? What do you
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: think he did well that helped you get to the
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: position that you are now? How did that process start
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: for you?
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: Well, look, in those days, we didn't really have a choice.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: So the thing is, he loved the overlanding side of things.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: He owned a very big mail order company, one of
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: the biggest mail order companies in Southern in Southern Africa
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: at the time. Um, and he, he loved the overlanding
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: side of things. So we started with the awning, the awnings.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Um, we developed the awnings.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: That's where the name came from.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: That's why it's called Easy Awning.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: And we've sold 300,000, uh, series 2000 awnings worldwide. Um,
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: so it's, it's, it's a good chunk of, of awnings. Um,
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: But yeah, so he started with that. And then obviously
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: I love to do things with my hands. So I've
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: always loved to work on stuff and whether it's been
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: motorbikes or cars or whatever it is, I've always liked
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: to work on stuff. So it was just a natural
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: progression that I started working in the factory. And in
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: those days, there was only a few of us. We
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: started very small because there was no overlanding products in
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: South Africa. There was no awnings in South Africa. It
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: was very rare to see anything like that. So we
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: started very small and I used to work in the
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: factory and I used to drill and I used to
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: put things together.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: So that's basically how it started.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: And what do you feel like are the two or
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: three things that you learned most from your dad, like
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: life lessons or how to run a business? What are
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: the things that your dad, you feel taught you most? Wow.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you can put two or three
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: things in, you know, he's an incredible businessman. He's absolutely
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: incredible businessman. Um, so, so the thing is, is, and
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: he's a perfectionist, you know, if it's, if it's a
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: millimeter skew, it's skew.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Um, it's, he's an absolute perfectionist.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: So, So I think all of those things, you know,
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: that things need to be perfect and they need to
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: be right and it needs to be done right. I
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: think that all played a part of it. And then
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: because of the way his life evolved, he was so
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: involved with things and, you know, people laugh at me,
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: but we had the first... bull bars on the vehicles
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: in the early days that he made out of pipes.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: And we used to have metal roof racks that we
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: put together in the early 60s and 70s and stuff
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: like that. So he was forever building cars and forever
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: building things, whether it was motorhomes or boats or houses
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: or stuff like that. The engineering side of it just
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: came completely naturally to him. And he's an engineer by trade.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: So all of those things, I think, you know, obviously
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: have stood us a good set of time. And then
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: he's owned quite a few businesses, which also helped with
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: the business side of things, you know?
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I've noticed that about Afrikaners in general is that they are,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: they're not only very industrious, but they, you know, they
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: have this term in Africa, Afrikaner makes a plan. I mean,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: it was, Like you guys do as African hunters in general,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: South Africans in general, are very self-reliant. So they just
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: figure stuff out. Have you found that to be the case?
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: I think we always, I think we've always, we've always
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: made a plan, you know, because I mean, years ago,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: there wasn't a thing that you could pick up a
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: cell phone and get help, you know, so you had
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: to make a plan. If, if, if, if a suspension
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: arm broke or something or broke, you know, whether you
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: put a tire piece of block of wood or whatever
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: in it, you know, but I mean, my dad's always said,
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, a problem is not a problem. You need
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: to just find a solution for it, you know? Um,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: and there's thousands, there's, there's thousands of answers to one problem.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: You just need to find that solution, you know? So yeah,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: I think South Africans are very much that way inclined
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: because they've had to make do with what they've got.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Well, and on the topic of South Africa, what are
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: your favorite, if you were to give someone a recommendation
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: of your top three trips to do out of South Africa?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Like if somebody was to get a hold of Bruce,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: overlanding with Bruce and hire one of his Hilux, what
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: would be your top two or three trips that you
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: would recommend people consider?
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Well, Scott, you know what? South Africa is an absolutely
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: amazing place. I mean, you know, like we were saying,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: you know, six hours in the bush and six hours
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: at the coast. But look, obviously the two top three
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: places if you wanted to go out of South Africa
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: would be Namibia. I mean, there's parts of Namibia that
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: are phenomenal, you know. And then obviously Botswana. Everybody loves Botswana.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: What area of Botswana do you like the most?
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Look, I like, I mean, I like Bains, Bode, Babs,
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: and I like central Kalahari. I like the bottom of
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: central Kalahari, the top of central Kalahari. So personally, I like,
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: I like those two areas, you know.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: That is a trip I've wanted to do is a
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: trans Kalahari. I've never done, I've been through the southern
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: part of the Kalahari, but it would be neat to
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: go all the way through the Kalahari. Yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, that's got a special place. Look, there's often,
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: you know, if you drive through central Kalahari, there's, you know,
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: what people don't realize is, you know, when I go.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: To the bush, it's not about seeing the big fire.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, if you see the big fire, that's great, you know,
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: but obviously I've seen the big fire a number of times.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: It's about the small things. It's about the mountains. It's
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: about the trees. So there is sections of like the
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: central Kalahari where you don't see much wildlife because obviously
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: there's not a huge amount of water and stuff like that.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: But if you If you just want to be out
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: there in the bush, it's an amazing place. And then, obviously,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Bruce Turner would be the guy to speak to about Zimbabwe.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: I've done a lot of traveling to the Matopas and
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: to all places in Zimbabwe. But Zimbabwe is also a
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: very special place. So I would say Namibia, Botswana, and
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: then Zimbabwe. You know, so if you want to go
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: to monopools or whatever.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard that's unbelievable. 100%, you know.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: But you actually need to give yourself, you can't do
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: it in a week, you know. You need to give
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: yourself a bit of time to check it out, you know.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: That is one of the challenges with Africa. And on
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: this current trip that I'm on, I just finally said, Scott,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to break it up so you
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: don't have to rush. You know, because I think I'll
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: be in Africa for six months over the last 12 months.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: And I still feel like I don't have enough time. So,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you know, there's just so much to see. And this
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: continent is so special and the people are just beautiful here.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: You live in the Garden of Eden, you know.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: 100%, you know, and that's the thing. And sometimes we
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: think we don't, but we actually do, you know. Because
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: you just, I mean, you look at this what's around
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: us and you take it in and you actually get... compulsory,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: you don't realize what you've actually got behind you.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: So part of your early life as well, you were
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: in the military and if I recall correctly, you served
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: in Angola. So first of all, thank you for the
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: service that you gave to your country. You and I
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: are both veterans. You had a harder time of it
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: than I did, you know, having to go to war
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: in another land. But how do you feel like the
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: military changed you? What did you learn from your time
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: in the service?
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Wow. You know, the thing is, is we didn't have
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: a choice, you know?
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: So we basically, you know, you went to a train station,
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: they stuck you in a train and off you went
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: and you ended up at your camp and then you
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: got shipped around.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: But I think the crazy part is, is it teaches
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: you life skills, you know?
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: Because up until that stage, obviously you're staying with your
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: parents and you're very when we cuddled and stuff like that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: And it definitely teaches you life skills, you know, and
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: those life skills, I think help you through your life,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: you know, whether it's, whether it's ironing your own clothes
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: or whatever it is, you know, I think, I think,
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: I think the army is, is indirectly, it teaches you,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: it breaks you down and, and builds you back up,
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: you know, um, look, I lost my, my zest for
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: guns and stuff like that, but, but so be it,
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: you know, not, not everybody does, but I did, you know, so.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Um, which is totally understandable, right?
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: Well, I suppose so, you know, I suppose so, you know, so, so,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: but yes, it, it, you know, you make friendships that
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: can't be broken and, um, it, it, it is what
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: it is, you know?
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: So, yeah.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: No, I, I feel the same way. It just, it,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: I felt like I was a, you know, a ship
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: with a lot of potential, but no rudder. So I
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: was just being blown wherever the wind was taking me
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: at 19 years old. So yeah, going in the military
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: made a big difference in my life. Yeah.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: You know, the crazy part is now, I mean, I
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: look at it, it was two years of my life
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: and it, and it felt like an eternity, you know,
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: and now two years of my life goes by so fast,
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: you know, it's, it's just, it's just amazing how, how
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: when you're in the military, it takes, it takes so long,
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: you know?
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And I've heard that, um, part of the reason for
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: how we, it feels like things take so long when
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: you're young compared to when you're older, two factors. And
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I find this interesting. So When you're 19 years old,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: you've got 60 years of your life ahead of you.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: When you're 60 years old, you've lived 80% of your life,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: just about. Or 70% of your life. Whereas when you're
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: that young, you've only lived 15-20% of your life. So
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: the fact that you have so much life left, it
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: feels like time moves more slowly. And the other thing
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: that I heard, and this one was the most interesting,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: is that When you're young, you're always experiencing something new.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Every day, you're learning something new. You're trying something new.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: You get on a motorcycle for the first time or
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: you kiss a girl for the first time or you
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: or you go to your on your first train ride
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: or you you learn something new about science for the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: first time and so because we're learning and we're experiencing
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: so much we condense more into a smaller amount of
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: time so you actually feel like time passes more slowly
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: because you're experiencing so much whereas i think what happens
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to us when we get a little bit older is
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: we stop being such a student we don't learn as
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: much and we don't try as many new things and
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: so then that feels like time is just because every
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: day is like groundhog day you get up at six
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning you go to work yeah you
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: get the same thing for lunch you come home you
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: watch the same television show and then it's rinse wash
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: repeat so it feels like time has flown by because
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: you've not done much and I think that you know
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: when I first heard that I that really reminded me
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: that Like, if we want life to feel more rich
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: or for life to slow down a little bit, let's
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: do more interesting things, do new things.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Well, it makes sense. It definitely makes sense.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: That's why you'll need to come out more.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I love being here, for sure, every time. So,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: if you were to give some advice to someone that
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: is new to overlanding and they're getting ready to buy
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: their first vehicle and do their first series of modifications...
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: what would be the first three or four pieces of
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: advice that you would give to someone that was brand new? Or,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: as another way to say it, if you could go
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: back in time to your 25-year-old self and say, hey, listen,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: my boy, I've got a couple pieces of advice around travel,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: what would you tell yourself?
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: Well, look, the scary thing is that's like what my
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: daughter and my son, because they've done some trips now
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: on their own, and I've said to them, You actually
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: don't need much. You know, and I was chatting to
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: Bruce Turner from Overlanding with Bruce the other day. And
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: we were saying, you know, we went out with a
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: vehicle with a cooler box and a few things.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: And you don't need much.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: All I can say to people is you must just
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: buy the things that you feel are beneficial. Because you
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: walk into a four-wheel drive store or whatever and they
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: can sell you, I mean... It's ridiculous what you can
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: get now. I mean, you can get an oven for
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: the back of your vehicle or whatever. You don't need
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: all that stuff. So you buy the thing that you want,
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: whether it's a dome tent or whether it's a roof tent.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: Buy the initial thing that you need, obviously, just to
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: get out there. And then go to one or two
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: small places. You don't have to go far. Just go
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: down the road. Go to the campsite and camp. And
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: then say, well, maybe we need an awning or maybe
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: we need a different pot.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Because..
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: A lot of the times, a lot of the times,
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, my dad, for example, when he, the first
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: trip that he did through Africa, he took so much
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: stuff with him. And if you're climbing his vehicles now,
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: all that stuff is gone, you know? And you, and
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: it's not like... His 300 series is, I mean, it's
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: very simple.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: A nice rack, a comfortable roof tent, well organized on
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: the inside, and that's it.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent.
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: And you don't need all that stuff, you know? And
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: the sad, well, the sad or the good thing is
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: in the old days... you know, there was no help available,
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: but there's so much help and you can chat to,
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: if you run into trouble, generally you can.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Get, you can get help.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: So, buy, just buy the thing that you think that
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: you need and then build, and then build from there
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: because most of the times, even if you buy chairs
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: or whatever, you go out and think, oh, geez, these
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: aren't what I need or they don't pack nicely in
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: the car or whatever. So buy, start small and then,
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: and then grow and it doesn't, it doesn't have to be,
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, like my son was saying to me the
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: other day, he can't get, the fridge into his car.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: So I said to my boy, you don't need the
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: fridge actually, you know, you're going for two days, you know,
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: just make a.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: Plan, you know.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get a small little cooler or whatever.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally works, absolutely. Well, no, that's great advice, Jess,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate that. So when someone is also, just
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: because you spend so much time designing product, when someone
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: is looking at a roof tent, what do you feel
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: are the things that people need to look for to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: make sure that they have a good experience. Even if
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: they're not buying an EZON, if they're buying some other brand,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: what do you think are some of the most important
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: core attributes of a high quality tent?
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: Well, look, you know, like I was saying, you know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: things have changed and obviously people want things lighter and
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: lighter and lighter and lighter.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: But the core things for any good product is, first.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: Of all, you need to buy, well, I would say
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: you need to buy a product That the company's been around..
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: For a bit of time... Yeah... Because if you have
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: a problem with it... Obviously... Obviously..
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: It would be able to get fixed... Because a lot
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: of the times... A lot of these times... The companies
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: come and go... And you can't get parts... And you
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: can't get stuff for it... So that's the..
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: I would look at that..
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: That makes sense..
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Apart from a reputable company... Whatever it is... And then..
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: And then if you want to get into the roof
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: tent game, even buy a secondhand roof tent and go
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: out there and see if it's for you. Because roof
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: tents aren't for everybody. Look, obviously I sell them and
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: I make them and I love them, but they're.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Not for everybody.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: So you start small, buy a secondhand roof tent and
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: then build yourself.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Or go with something smaller than what you think you need.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: One of the things I notice that people do with
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: roof tents is that they buy the biggest one that'll
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: fit on the top of their truck. And they're so
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: much more expensive and so much heavier. You know, start with,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, typically a 1400 for two people is pretty
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: ideal in my mind.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Well, that's the, you know, the crazy part is when
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: we started roof tents, we made a 105, and then
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: we made a 1200, and then we made the 1400,
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: which obviously... is around the world now. But the thing
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: is with roof tents is you can't fall off it.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: So the thing is if you're going to sleep in
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: a roof tent, so you're using up that 1400 space.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: So you basically got a double bed, but normally you
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: leave a little bit of space on the edge that
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: you don't fall off. And I say to people, often
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: people say to me, listen, I've got a family. I
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: want to buy a family tent. Will we fit? So
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: I go, listen, what you do is, and not just
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: for my tents, what you do is mark it out
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: on the floor, what the size of the mattress is,
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: and then lie in it as a family and go, okay,
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: this is perfect for us, you know?
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Um, but for two people, you definitely don't need more
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: than a 1400 because like I say, you can't, you
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: can't fall out. And, and yeah, it, it, if you
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: go too big, um, you you end up with a
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: lot of a lot of other problems you know then
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: your awning doesn't fit and then this you know that
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: that it hangs over the side and.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: When you can't put fuel up there or whatever else
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: you can't add extra accessories.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent you know a hundred percent well.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: That's good that's really good advice around roof tents they've
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: become so incredibly popular and now you can get any
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: kind of roof tent that you want and just last
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: night i was spending some time in a prototype that
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: you've developed of a different style of roof tent. So
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: it's just very, it's been very neat to see the
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: amount of innovation. So now people can really find a
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: tent that best suits their needs as opposed to like
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: kind of a one size fits all.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I mean, our range of roof tents has
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: grown astronomically and we try and make roof tents for everything. Obviously,
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: You don't have to have a four-wheel drive to have
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: a roof tent. More and more people in Europe and
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: stuff are using them on normal vehicles. So you don't
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: have to have a four-wheel drive. You can actually fit
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: a roof tent to anything that you want. And that
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: makes it nice and accessible for everybody.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: So looking towards the future, what kind of travels do
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: you have planned for yourself? What would be your dream trip, Jess?
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: If you could go do anything in the world, what
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: would you like to do? Wow.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: Look, I'd like to go back to South America again
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: and spend some time in South America. You know, I've
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: only been in and out. Obviously, Dad traveled through it.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: I find the people, you know, phenomenal. And it's still
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: got this grassroots feeling, you know. So I'd like to
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: go back to South America if I can, you know.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: obviously on the side of the planet, I've got, I've
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: got a trip planned up to, to monopoles and stuff
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: like that, um, for the end of the year.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Um, and then, and then we'll, we'll, we'll see, you know, um,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: we'll see where we go, you know?
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, I look forward to seeing your updates from
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: all of those adventures. Jess, thank you so much for
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: the time today. Um, your dear friend, I have such
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: respect for what you and your dad have built. Um,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Of course, for me, I also am so grateful for
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: that initial support through Nathan and through Paul of providing
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: the two roof tents that I used to go up
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: to the Arctic Ocean with that Tacoma so long ago.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't have the business that I do, and
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to have this podcast without people
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: like you and your dad and Paul and that believed
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: in me very early on. So I appreciate that. Thank you.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: Oh, Scott, thanks a million, man. It means a lot
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: to me. And look, you obviously, you're like a brother
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: to me. So thank you very much, man.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Jess, it's been a pleasure.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sir.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: And we thank you all for listening and we'll talk
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: to you next time.