Latest / The Student Athlete Sessions / No D1 Offers? No Problem

Transcript

No D1 Offers? No Problem · The Student Athlete Sessions

0:02
Welcome back to another episode of student athlete sessions
0:05
presented by D3 direct today.
0:07
We are joined by former TCNJ all-American men's basketball player,
0:12
Randy Walco.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Randy, welcome to the program.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited to be a part of it.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, followed you for years.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: So excited to be able to participate in this.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And this has been a, this has been an episode a long time in the making.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: We're, uh,
0:30
SPEAKER_00: We're reaching across time zones here.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Randy, go ahead and tell the audience where you're calling in from today.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm calling in from Taiwan, Taichung, Taiwan.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: So Central Taiwan, you know, small little islands out here in Asia.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: So I've been hooping here since I graduated.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's where I'm calling from.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: And I think just to get things kicked off,
0:58
SPEAKER_00: um,
0:59
SPEAKER_00: cause you know,
1:00
a lot of our listeners are prospective college athletes who are
1:04
interested in doing
1:04
SPEAKER_00: exactly what you're doing right now,
1:06
SPEAKER_00: playing,
1:07
SPEAKER_00: playing pro after they play in college,
1:10
SPEAKER_00: maybe just start out with,
1:12
SPEAKER_00: um,
1:13
why you wanted to play professional basketball and maybe a
1:16
little bit about why Taiwan.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: So, uh, why I wanted to play, um, you know,
1:23
SPEAKER_01: coming in to college initially,
1:26
SPEAKER_01: I feel like when you commit to a Division III school,
1:31
SPEAKER_01: I feel like a lot of students,
1:34
SPEAKER_01: even like myself,
1:35
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't thinking about
1:37
SPEAKER_01: like playing after.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's really is a privilege to be able to do that.
1:42
But after the success that I had my senior year and it became a
1:46
legitimate possibility,
1:47
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
1:48
SPEAKER_01: oh,
1:48
SPEAKER_01: gosh,
1:48
SPEAKER_01: yes.
1:49
Even if it's for one year or two year,
1:51
I knew I had to jump at the opportunity.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: And
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:58
SPEAKER_01: so after I saw it could be a legitimate possibility,
2:02
probably after seeing the numbers and the team success that I
2:07
was having later in
2:09
SPEAKER_01: my senior year,
2:12
SPEAKER_01: once we won our conference championship,
2:14
SPEAKER_01: made it the NCAAs,
2:15
SPEAKER_01: and then I saw all these different awards and recognition,
2:17
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
2:18
SPEAKER_01: okay,
2:19
SPEAKER_01: this could definitely be a possibility.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'd be dumb to not at least pursue it for as long as I can.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: And then Taiwan specifically, my mom was born here.
2:31
So I know Taiwanese culture in general to our family has always
2:36
had like a special
2:37
SPEAKER_01: place in our heart.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: And being able to play here,
2:42
I've been able to connect with so much of my family that I
2:45
haven't met before
2:46
SPEAKER_01: before this.
2:48
You know,
2:49
I've really felt like I've been able to embrace the culture in
2:53
which I was
2:56
SPEAKER_01: you know, grew up with.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: And I know for my family members,
3:00
SPEAKER_01: for especially my mom,
3:01
SPEAKER_01: this was really important to her that I come and play here.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: And I had other paths that I could choose.
3:11
It was either here in Taiwan or like third league pro B
3:15
starting out in Germany.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: But I felt like
3:20
SPEAKER_01: this place for me personally with my,
3:22
SPEAKER_01: I think cultural connection,
3:24
SPEAKER_01: I think that's what really,
3:25
SPEAKER_01: uh,
3:26
SPEAKER_01: kind of swayed me to come here more so than,
3:29
SPEAKER_01: you know,
3:29
SPEAKER_01: pursue the path in Europe.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:33
And a couple of years into your pro career,
3:35
how would you say that that has paid off?
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Like,
3:38
SPEAKER_00: do you,
3:38
SPEAKER_00: has that additional cultural,
3:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
3:42
SPEAKER_00: immersion and understanding from,
3:43
SPEAKER_00: like you said,
3:44
SPEAKER_00: what you were raised in,
3:45
SPEAKER_00: but maybe never had the full understanding of,
3:48
SPEAKER_00: um,
3:49
SPEAKER_00: what has that been like to experience on your own?
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it's awesome.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: You know,
3:55
SPEAKER_01: coming here,
3:56
SPEAKER_01: this is,
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
4:00
SPEAKER_01: I guess fifth year out of college,
4:01
SPEAKER_01: four-year playing because I missed a year because of ACL injury.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: But,
4:07
SPEAKER_01: you know,
4:07
SPEAKER_01: being here,
4:08
SPEAKER_01: it's super,
4:10
SPEAKER_01: even,
4:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
4:12
SPEAKER_01: outside of,
4:14
SPEAKER_01: you know,
4:14
SPEAKER_01: all the basketball,
4:15
SPEAKER_01: which has been great.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, being able to connect with,
4:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
4:19
my family and stuff has just made it seem like I'm creating a
4:25
comfortable life
4:25
SPEAKER_01: outside of just basketball here.
4:28
And then also the city that I've been living in Taichung for
4:31
the last four years.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: It just feels like a second home at this point.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm super comfortable.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: I know all my favorite places to eat.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I know how to get around the city.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: I know I'm not going to lie.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't speak Mandarin.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: It's a pretty hard language to learn.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: But for someone who doesn't,
4:49
speak it it's a really really comfortable and easy city to live
4:53
in and then also
4:54
just with everything the organization that i've been a part of
4:57
has just been
4:57
awesome about everything um made it feel like really
5:01
comfortable for me to be here
5:04
um like for example when i was um you know i had my whole knee
5:09
injury and i missed
5:11
SPEAKER_01: a whole year playing basketball i was um
5:15
under a multi-year contract and they still honored the contract
5:18
the whole year paid
5:18
me for the whole year even though i was only in taiwan for
5:21
actually probably one
5:21
SPEAKER_01: month out of that season um anything that i've needed here any
5:27
SPEAKER_01: time off due to injury.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I recently had a family wedding.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: I was my brother's best man.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I said, hey, is it okay if I take a week?
5:36
SPEAKER_01: I know it's in the middle of the season.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: I know that could be a little bit of a dicey.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: I said, hey, no problem.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Just go take care of what you need to.
5:43
So just things like that that the organization has just done
5:47
for me has also just
5:50
SPEAKER_01: made it super nice and comfortable here.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: And you're currently playing for the team called the Formosa Dreamers.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: That's been the same squad the whole time, right?
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:03
So,
6:04
yeah,
6:04
I think once you get that organizational trust,
6:06
they know you as a person.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that type of a relationship is hard to beat.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: and how did you find them originally?
6:15
Like,
6:16
I,
6:16
obviously you,
6:17
you,
6:17
you had some awareness of this opportunity in Taiwan.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: You had some awareness of the opportunity in Germany,
6:22
SPEAKER_00: which I think is where your teammate Travis Jocelyn ended up.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: He started out, uh, in pro a playing for Paderborn.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's out in Finland now, but, um, my first agent who I had, um,
6:41
was actually also my head coach's old agent who he played in
6:44
germany so he had a
6:45
lot of connections and um you know the germany poland that kind
6:50
of region um so i
6:52
thought that was pretty intriguing when i initially signed with
6:54
him um but what was
6:56
always in the works is that um through my mother i was we were
7:00
actively trying to
7:02
get me to have a like a taiwanese passport so instead of acting
7:07
as like an import
7:07
SPEAKER_01: there i could count as
7:09
not like a local,
7:10
but there's a specific spot for foreign-born Taiwanese players.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Each team in Taiwan is afforded two slots.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: So if I was able to get that
7:21
SPEAKER_01: I knew that especially my value in that league would just be super high.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: But since my mom hasn't lived there for,
7:29
SPEAKER_01: at this point,
7:30
SPEAKER_01: like 40-plus years,
7:32
SPEAKER_01: we didn't know if we were going to be able to get it.
7:35
But through the whole process and stuff,
7:37
we were able to end up getting it.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: And then once I got that,
7:40
SPEAKER_01: like a bunch of these Taiwanese teams,
7:42
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
7:43
SPEAKER_01: came across my tape and –
7:46
SPEAKER_01: then a lot of them were reaching out to me.
7:48
I chose the Dreamers because at the time he's then since he's
7:55
now coaching in Canada,
7:56
SPEAKER_01: but he's a Canadian coach,
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Kyle Julius.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: The fact that I guess he was North American and coaching in Taiwan.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think we were able to communicate with
8:12
about what vision he had for me and what he envisioned me in
8:16
this league.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: And I think having that Western kind of influence for me,
8:23
SPEAKER_01: especially for such a drastic change initially,
8:26
SPEAKER_01: I've never been more than four or five days,
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I think,
8:29
SPEAKER_01: away from home without my parents or anything.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: So to go 10,000 miles away for a whole season,
8:34
I think definitely having a coach that has kind of a similar
8:39
coaching style to what
8:40
SPEAKER_01: I've been accustomed to,
8:42
SPEAKER_01: what kind of alleviate a little bit of,
8:45
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
8:46
SPEAKER_01: maybe the initial like homesickness or feeling of being away from home,
8:51
kind of make the basketball environment a little bit more like
8:53
what I'm used to.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: So that's what initially swayed me to come to the Dreamers specifically.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: I think that's all, you know,
9:03
SPEAKER_00: well thought out.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Like it is a big jump.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: And I,
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I've definitely heard stories of people,
9:10
whether it's D three players or D one players going abroad and
9:12
not really thinking
9:13
SPEAKER_00: ahead about what that situation is going to be like.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: And then running into a lot of unfamiliarity,
9:18
SPEAKER_00: having to work through a translator to talk to a coach who,
9:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
9:22
SPEAKER_00: maybe has preference for if they're in Spain,
9:23
SPEAKER_00: a Spanish player over them.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's just hard to break into that rotation.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: And, um,
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And then try to find some, some sense of normalcy.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: So especially if you hadn't,
9:35
you hadn't spent a lot of time abroad and then to go fully into
9:38
the defense.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: 10,000 miles away.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: So that was, that was the big thing.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
9:44
SPEAKER_01: what are,
9:45
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:45
SPEAKER_01: just some of these things that could help make my transition,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: a bit easier to,
9:51
SPEAKER_01: to making such a drastic change in my life.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And at this point,
9:56
SPEAKER_01: like I said, you know, year five, I guess, technically.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know if I would, you know, make it this far.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: So I was like,
10:04
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:05
SPEAKER_01: for however long I play,
10:07
SPEAKER_01: let's try to just make this as seamless as possible.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And,
10:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:10
obviously it's been huge adjustments and roadblocks and speed
10:14
bumps left and right.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: But, yeah, overall, man, can't complain.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: Can't complain.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
10:22
I want to rewind just a little bit so people listening
10:25
understand what you were
10:26
SPEAKER_00: talking about earlier.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: In Taiwan,
10:28
SPEAKER_00: so in most foreign basketball leagues,
10:30
SPEAKER_00: there are limits on how many outside,
10:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:35
SPEAKER_00: people from outside the country can be on the team.
10:37
So in Taiwan,
10:38
are the rules two ex-Taiwan people,
10:41
like two Americans or two Europeans?
10:44
SPEAKER_01: So in our league, you're allowed three import players.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: So those are just...
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Like,
10:51
SPEAKER_01: anybody that's not Taiwanese,
10:53
SPEAKER_01: those are – Taiwan has kind of,
10:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel like,
10:57
SPEAKER_01: blown up recently.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Like,
10:58
SPEAKER_01: you see some,
10:58
SPEAKER_01: like,
10:59
SPEAKER_01: big names that have been coming through Taiwan and playing,
11:03
SPEAKER_01: like Dwight Howard,
11:04
SPEAKER_01: DeMarcus Cousins.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Jeremy Lin's still playing here.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: We had, like, a bunch of also other, like, NBA guys, like, I think –
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Hashim Thabid and Anthony Bennett have all...
11:19
SPEAKER_01: A lot of those big and poor spots the teams will use to get ex-NBA guys,
11:25
SPEAKER_01: EuroLeague guys.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: It's also pretty... Those spots are also high reward, high volatility.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I've seen players...
11:35
SPEAKER_01: you know, one bad practice.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: They get here off a 12-hour flight, one practice.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the coach doesn't like what they see initially.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: They're gone a couple of days later.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Like those spots could be pretty cutthroat.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: But I guess for mine specifically,
11:51
SPEAKER_01: sorry to get a little off track,
11:52
SPEAKER_01: but each team has been also afforded two foreign-born townies players.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: So basically any –
12:01
SPEAKER_01: person with a Taiwanese passport that wasn't, you know, born in Taiwan.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: So if you're Taiwanese,
12:07
so that would be like Taiwanese American or Taiwanese European
12:10
or anything like that.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: So that's the spot that I fill,
12:13
SPEAKER_01: um,
12:14
SPEAKER_01: which is a pretty niche spot,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: I would say,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: but I think especially like in this,
12:20
SPEAKER_01: um,
12:22
SPEAKER_01: In Taiwan,
12:22
SPEAKER_01: it makes my value,
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I think,
12:24
SPEAKER_01: a little bit more than,
12:25
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Europe,
12:26
where I would have to play as a regular import because I think
12:30
my playing style is
12:30
SPEAKER_01: more of that of like a European player,
12:33
SPEAKER_01: but except I don't.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I count as right in between that import local status.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a nice carve-out, especially for your...
12:45
SPEAKER_00: value as a career professional.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: You're able to have some job security.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: And again, you've gotten into this organization and grooving yourself.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: So much of professional sports, I think, is personality-based.
12:58
And like you said,
12:58
if someone hits the ground and it's not a fit,
13:01
then they'll let you go.
13:03
So the fact that they've kept you for this long and that you're
13:08
enjoying it is great.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I will say, have you read the book Brave Dragons?
13:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I have.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: It's this American author,
13:19
SPEAKER_00: New York Times writer,
13:20
SPEAKER_00: embeds with a team in China right as they signed Bonzi Wells,
13:27
SPEAKER_00: who was like one of the biggest,
13:30
SPEAKER_00: at that point,
13:30
SPEAKER_00: like foreign import signings in the Chinese Super League.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: it is just,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: if anyone wants to learn more about the import process,
13:41
SPEAKER_00: it is really fascinating,
13:42
SPEAKER_00: um,
13:43
SPEAKER_00: both from a cultural standpoint,
13:45
SPEAKER_00: but also just about,
13:46
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:46
SPEAKER_00: pro pro basketball overseas.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: So it's by Jim Yardley.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, might have to search that up after this.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: It's good.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: A good one to check out, especially for a long flight.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but let's, let's work in reverse here.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: So you, you briefly mentioned your coach, um,
14:05
SPEAKER_00: playing abroad, Matt Goldsmith.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Talk about maybe just,
14:11
SPEAKER_00: like,
14:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
14:12
SPEAKER_00: what clicked for you that senior year and for you as a team,
14:17
maybe what you guys had been building under his leadership
14:20
there at TCNJ and
14:22
SPEAKER_00: obviously in a COVID-shortened year in 2020.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: But, yeah, just talk about that senior year.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: What clicked for you as an athlete that helped you make the jump?
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so...
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Um,
14:36
SPEAKER_01: I think,
14:37
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:37
SPEAKER_01: coming in,
14:39
SPEAKER_01: um,
14:41
SPEAKER_01: at that point when I signed with them back in 2015,
14:46
SPEAKER_01: um,
14:48
SPEAKER_01: I like,
14:50
SPEAKER_01: I,
14:50
I honestly didn't go there to expect to be a part of like a
14:57
hoops powerhouse.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Cause I think at that point, um, they hadn't,
15:02
won a conference championship or made a NCAA tournament game or
15:06
anything for,
15:06
SPEAKER_01: I think at that point,
15:07
SPEAKER_01: like 25,
15:09
SPEAKER_01: 26,
15:09
27 years.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: But so my expectation was like,
15:15
SPEAKER_01: I like going in,
15:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:17
SPEAKER_01: as a freshman,
15:17
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
15:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:18
SPEAKER_01: I hope,
15:20
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:20
SPEAKER_01: I hope we could win.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: But if I don't, you know, I'm getting a great education in state.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: It's close to home.
15:28
And as it checked all the boxes,
15:29
you know,
15:30
in state tuition was,
15:31
you know,
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Very fairly priced.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: I really liked the message and the culture that,
15:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Coach Goldsmith and at that time,
15:40
SPEAKER_01: our assistant Coach Elberg was preaching.
15:42
And I was like,
15:43
oh,
15:43
and I got the chance to play four more years of basketball.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: That's all I could ask for.
15:48
But,
15:48
you know,
15:49
going in,
15:49
you know,
15:50
TCG wasn't necessarily this Division III powerhouse.
15:54
But coming in,
15:56
you know,
15:56
my first year,
15:57
I think I underestimated,
15:58
like,
15:59
the amount of –
16:00
SPEAKER_01: like talent, um, that there was at like the division three level.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Um,
16:06
SPEAKER_01: cause coming in,
16:07
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:08
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:08
SPEAKER_01: even my senior year,
16:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:09
SPEAKER_01: small public school,
16:10
SPEAKER_01: but I was averaging,
16:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:11
SPEAKER_01: really good,
16:12
SPEAKER_01: uh,
16:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:13
SPEAKER_01: numbers had a really successful high school senior year.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And I,
16:17
SPEAKER_01: I,
16:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:18
SPEAKER_01: I was expecting to come in and,
16:20
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:21
SPEAKER_01: maybe not start or some,
16:22
SPEAKER_01: but at least get some minutes right away.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: But then I realized,
16:25
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:25
I'm being matched with a practice against at the time we had a
16:28
couple of really big guys,
16:30
SPEAKER_01: like grown men,
16:31
SPEAKER_01: like Corey Stanford,
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Bobby Brackett,
16:33
SPEAKER_01: like big 6'5",
16:36
SPEAKER_01: 6'6",
16:37
SPEAKER_01: 6'7",
16:37
SPEAKER_01: 225,
16:37
SPEAKER_01: 230 pound,
16:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:40
SPEAKER_01: forwards.
16:41
And at that time,
16:42
I was – I entered college like 6'5",
16:45
160,
16:46
like an absolute twig.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting manhandled.
16:52
So coming in,
16:53
I was like – I was just,
16:54
first off,
16:55
surprised at the amount of talent and how –
16:59
good of players there were at the Division III level,
17:02
as you know,
17:03
playing.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: But we had some really talented teams my first especially two years.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: We had a super talented team my freshman year.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Arguably,
17:14
SPEAKER_01: probably,
17:15
I feel like the most talented team that I was a part of
17:18
probably my four years.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: But and then my second year,
17:22
SPEAKER_01: we had another super talented team,
17:24
SPEAKER_01: but we both kind of first two years we lost like the semifinals of it.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: So we couldn't quite get it done.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Our third year, we had a really tough year.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: We lost a lot of graduating seniors, impactful seniors the year before.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of when I stepped up into like a leading role.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: And I think.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
17:47
a lot of people had to kind of step up into roles that they
17:51
previously didn't have
17:52
SPEAKER_01: to do.
17:52
And I think like any team,
17:54
like there was a bit of like an adjustment period.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't,
17:57
SPEAKER_01: I think my junior,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: I didn't,
17:59
SPEAKER_01: I was our leading score,
18:01
SPEAKER_01: but I don't think I quite understood like what it really meant to,
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
18:07
SPEAKER_01: be like a leader of a team.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: What was the difference there for, for kids that are listening?
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Like,
18:15
SPEAKER_01: So,
18:15
SPEAKER_01: you know,
18:16
SPEAKER_01: coming in my first two years,
18:19
SPEAKER_01: I was,
18:20
SPEAKER_01: well,
18:20
SPEAKER_01: my first year I was like a bit player,
18:23
SPEAKER_01: maybe I had like 10 total minutes.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: But then my sophomore year, I was part of a really talented team.
18:29
I played a huge role,
18:30
but we had some really great leaders,
18:33
EJ Bermudez,
18:34
Eric Murdoch and stuff.
18:36
um and you know they were the guys that knew how to get guys
18:39
going hold guys
18:41
accountable um kind of get everybody on the same page establish
18:46
what everybody
18:47
needs to do to kind of be successful and then the next year you
18:51
know we lost a lot
18:52
SPEAKER_01: of our leadership and
18:55
i came in and i ended up having like the best season out of
18:59
anybody on our team i
18:59
think stat wise but i wasn't a guy especially my my um my
19:08
junior year because i was
19:08
a little bit more i feel like reserved in that aspect a little
19:12
bit more kind of
19:14
like lead by example type person but i think going into my
19:18
senior year i was kind
19:19
SPEAKER_01: of like okay i need to take more of a proactive
19:23
leadership role and kind of keep everybody engaged i think
19:27
that's the one thing
19:28
that i tried to to um you know really hold myself to a standard
19:34
going into my
19:35
senior year and i think that made a a pretty big difference is
19:39
my main goal was
19:41
SPEAKER_01: everybody one through 16 whether you're making
19:45
SPEAKER_01: whether you're playing 25,
19:47
SPEAKER_01: 30,
19:47
SPEAKER_01: or zero minutes a game,
19:49
SPEAKER_01: make sure everybody's still active,
19:50
SPEAKER_01: engaged.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Make sure that they're still caring a lot about the season.
19:55
Make sure that they all feel – everybody feels included and
20:00
holding kind of a
20:01
SPEAKER_01: standard where nobody was –
20:06
know better or got preferential treatment compared like i think
20:11
i try to make an
20:11
emphasis of treating you know travis jocelyn who at that time
20:15
was also our first
20:15
email conference for the same as i would treat you know the
20:18
freshmen who were
20:20
SPEAKER_01: getting at like the end of the games up 30.
20:22
um and so that was the kind of the effort that i really try to
20:26
make and that senior
20:28
year team we returned pretty much everybody from our junior
20:32
team except i feel like
20:34
SPEAKER_01: also with a lot of other great leaders that we had,
20:37
SPEAKER_01: my co-captains,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Tom Egan and Ryan Jensen,
20:41
I felt like we really cultivated an environment where that was
20:44
definitely the
20:45
SPEAKER_01: closest team I ever had throughout my four years of college.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what made a huge difference.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: We spent so much time off the court together.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: I feel like usually
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Um,
20:58
SPEAKER_01: on a lot of like college teams,
20:59
SPEAKER_01: there might be like a little bit of a divide,
21:02
SPEAKER_01: not like a divide,
21:03
SPEAKER_01: but like,
21:03
SPEAKER_01: you don't see,
21:03
you're not going to see the freshmen or the seniors hanging out
21:07
necessarily all the time.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Or,
21:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:09
SPEAKER_01: maybe there's a little bit of like a hierarchy maybe in a sense,
21:13
SPEAKER_01: but that senior,
21:14
SPEAKER_01: you know,
21:14
SPEAKER_01: at my college house,
21:16
SPEAKER_01: it was like an open door policy for anybody on the team.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: You could, um,
21:20
come in leave whenever you want there was just intermingling of
21:24
every single class
21:25
all hanging out doing everything off the court together and um
21:30
i think when you
21:31
have such close camaraderie um with each other off the court it
21:36
makes it so much
21:37
SPEAKER_01: easier to hold people accountable
21:39
because they know that you really care about them and you know
21:42
you have their best interests.
21:43
So when you're ripping into them or you're telling them to kind
21:47
of turn it up or to
21:49
SPEAKER_01: stop BS and they're like,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: okay,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: he really means it because he wouldn't otherwise just say it.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think that was a huge difference in my senior years.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I think as a player,
21:58
SPEAKER_01: I obviously took another step,
22:00
but I think I kind of learned what it meant to lead a
22:04
successful team in a sense.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I think that was the difference.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, that's well said.
22:14
And for people listening,
22:15
like how to build a program,
22:19
one,
22:19
takes a lot of hard work.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: You said you had talent early on,
22:24
SPEAKER_00: but not necessarily like that culture of accountability and that can't be
22:30
SPEAKER_00: implemented overnight.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It takes effort.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: It takes trust.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: It takes team building.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: And, yeah, it sounds like you guys put that in over time.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: And I would bet that the,
22:42
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:42
SPEAKER_00: that class of freshmen,
22:44
SPEAKER_00: TCNJ has not faded into the background since you left.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: That class of freshmen probably went on to win more games than,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:54
SPEAKER_00: the classes prior to you.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: They've continued to make NCAA tournaments.
22:59
And so that type of benefit and that type of momentum,
23:05
once you get it going,
23:06
doesn't stop.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: But it does take time to get started.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
23:15
In terms of moving,
23:18
because I think this is something that probably a lot of kids –
23:22
experience right like being a good individual performer
23:26
training hard working hard
23:29
and like progressing on your own but maybe like you were being
23:34
a little more
23:34
reserved maybe quieter um what helped you like conversations
23:41
maybe with with uh
23:43
SPEAKER_00: coach goldsmith or or others to like find your voice and
23:48
SPEAKER_00: or your own leadership style,
23:49
whether it was like the other two captains were maybe the more
23:51
vocal ones and you
23:52
were just in the background kind of with that open door policy
23:55
team building.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: But like what helped you find your footing there or maybe be more vocal?
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think a huge part of it was,
24:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I've over the course of my college career,
24:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:10
SPEAKER_01: I've had countless conversations with,
24:13
SPEAKER_01: with our coach Goldsmith and a huge part of the,
24:18
SPEAKER_01: You know,
24:18
SPEAKER_01: initially why I,
24:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:21
signed with him in the first place is him and Coach Elberg were
24:25
talking to me about,
24:26
SPEAKER_01: like,
24:26
what they could see me as on this level and the type of career
24:30
that I could have.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And so they always – even my freshman year when I wasn't in the rotation,
24:37
SPEAKER_01: wasn't playing,
24:40
SPEAKER_01: they still always said,
24:42
SPEAKER_01: like,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: hey, look, this doesn't change how we feel about you.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: This isn't changing how we are seeing how your career is turning out.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: And they've always held me to like a very high standard.
24:53
And I think objectively after my junior year,
24:55
we had a pretty disappointing year.
25:01
And so after,
25:02
you know,
25:02
I talked to Coach Goldsmith and he said,
25:06
like,
25:06
hey,
25:07
I –
25:08
SPEAKER_01: You said you wanted to be an All-American.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: You wanted to be Player of the Year.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: This past year doesn't change the fact of you being able to do it,
25:18
SPEAKER_01: but something is going to have to change in terms of how the team was.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: And he basically put a lot of responsibility on my shoulder and said,
25:31
SPEAKER_01: look,
25:31
SPEAKER_01: a lot of the guys are looking up to you to kind of help
25:35
SPEAKER_01: turn the tide from this past season and get us over the hump.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, something's going to have to change.
25:45
And I think the biggest thing that we were talking about wasn't
25:47
necessarily like a
25:48
SPEAKER_01: skill set thing,
25:49
but just more of like being able to get everybody on the same
25:56
page and be more involved.
25:58
Because you look at all the great teams,
26:01
all the best players were great leaders.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think at that time,
26:05
You know,
26:06
my junior year,
26:06
I think,
26:07
well,
26:07
I think I was really good player.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't necessarily taken upon a leadership role.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: So I think I became more vocal because I was like.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: The realization and talking with coach was like,
26:20
SPEAKER_01: damn,
26:21
I got one more year to kind of carve out the legacy that I
26:26
think this group of guys
26:28
SPEAKER_01: can have.
26:29
um and i honestly i was just i was just nervous about um like
26:37
it not panning out so
26:38
SPEAKER_01: i was just like okay even though this isn't exactly something that
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I had done in the past,
26:44
SPEAKER_01: it's like,
26:44
SPEAKER_01: I kind of,
26:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
26:47
felt like it was a necessity that I had to do it in order for
26:50
us to kind of achieve
26:52
SPEAKER_01: what we wanted to,
26:52
SPEAKER_01: step out of my comfort zone a little.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Because I was just scared of not achieving,
26:57
SPEAKER_01: you know,
26:58
SPEAKER_01: what I really wanted or what the team,
27:02
SPEAKER_01: I knew what the team could do,
27:03
SPEAKER_01: so.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: It's an uncomfortable thing.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: In my own college experience at Swarthmore,
27:10
SPEAKER_00: I felt like I had to make a similar adjustment,
27:13
SPEAKER_00: which is why I'm curious.
27:15
Being this lead-by-example person,
27:19
my coach really pushed me to be more vocal in practice and
27:23
SPEAKER_00: I definitely think there was some benefit,
27:24
SPEAKER_00: too,
27:25
SPEAKER_00: of,
27:25
SPEAKER_00: like,
27:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:26
SPEAKER_00: you were a great player on the court.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: But as with every great player, like, you went through struggles.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And I just found, for me, I was a shooter.
27:36
And,
27:36
like,
27:37
when I would go through a rut,
27:38
he would always say,
27:39
like,
27:39
when you're down,
27:40
talk.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Right?
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Because –
27:43
SPEAKER_00: by like picking someone else up, keeping the team going.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Like it,
27:46
SPEAKER_00: it just gets you out of your own mindset out of that own,
27:50
SPEAKER_00: like,
27:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:52
SPEAKER_00: your own process and it helps you play a little more free.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
27:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't,
27:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you felt the same way,
27:59
SPEAKER_00: but I always just felt like that was a,
28:02
SPEAKER_00: not only did it help the team get going and,
28:05
SPEAKER_00: and stay on track,
28:06
SPEAKER_00: but,
28:06
SPEAKER_00: but I think there were some personal benefits too,
28:08
that I never would have appreciated had he not pushed me in
28:11
that direction.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: I can 100% relate to all the stuff you're saying.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And I remember,
28:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:20
SPEAKER_01: coach would tell me,
28:22
SPEAKER_01: he was like,
28:22
SPEAKER_01: no matter how frustrated you're getting,
28:25
SPEAKER_01: he was like,
28:25
SPEAKER_01: you got to hold your,
28:28
SPEAKER_01: he was like,
28:29
SPEAKER_01: he's basically was saying,
28:30
you got to hold your composure and still act like as if you
28:34
were having 25,
28:35
SPEAKER_01: 30 points.
28:35
Because if the guys are looking at you and they see that you're frustrated,
28:39
SPEAKER_01: you're out of it,
28:40
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:41
SPEAKER_01: that's,
28:41
SPEAKER_01: like we can't have that.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: So whether you're having a great shooting night,
28:44
SPEAKER_01: a bad shooting night,
28:45
SPEAKER_01: we need you to just stay composed and still act like,
28:51
SPEAKER_01: like there had to be a certain threshold that you always had to,
28:55
SPEAKER_01: had to be,
28:55
SPEAKER_01: you can't be too high.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: You can't be too low.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Um,
28:59
SPEAKER_01: because,
28:59
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:00
SPEAKER_01: at the end of the day,
29:01
SPEAKER_01: if,
29:02
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:02
SPEAKER_01: your teammates are looking,
29:05
SPEAKER_01: looking at,
29:05
SPEAKER_01: um,
29:06
know the the guy who's supposed to supposed to be leading them
29:10
and you know he's
29:10
flustered he's he's rattled it's like it's just not a good tone
29:15
of set for the rest
29:16
of the team so no matter if i was having like you said a good
29:21
shooting night a bad
29:22
shooting night the one thing i always try to do is you said use
29:27
your voice to hold
29:28
SPEAKER_01: people accountable um and do everything else you can to help win yeah
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: And just,
29:38
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I think your journey,
29:42
SPEAKER_00: maybe not super atypical for a Division III player still these days,
29:46
SPEAKER_00: but like in the overall college landscape,
29:48
SPEAKER_00: things have shifted dramatically.
29:50
I would say even since you finished school in 2020 to now at
29:54
the Transfer Portal and –
29:56
SPEAKER_00: So much choice that is out there and so much freedom, which is great.
30:02
I think I'm definitely in support of players having more rights
30:08
to their own movement.
30:09
I think there were horror stories of coaches not granting
30:12
releases and whatever.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: That, thankfully, is behind us.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: But if you can just talk a little bit about –
30:23
SPEAKER_00: You alluded to it some with coming in,
30:26
SPEAKER_00: being underweight maybe for playing college basketball,
30:29
SPEAKER_00: coming up against these grown men,
30:30
SPEAKER_00: and then sitting on the bench your freshman year and not playing.
30:39
Maybe talk about the long-term benefits because eventually you
30:42
went from not
30:43
SPEAKER_00: playing to NABC first-team All-American.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: all at the same school.
30:47
And I just think staring at story or like the work that you had
30:51
to put in to get
30:52
SPEAKER_00: there in those first couple of years would be valuable for kids to hear.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: So honestly,
30:59
SPEAKER_01: this whole,
31:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:01
SPEAKER_01: kind of story goes years and years back,
31:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:06
SPEAKER_01: growing up and even playing for like the local travel team,
31:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:11
SPEAKER_01: I was never a starter,
31:14
SPEAKER_01: always kind of like a,
31:16
SPEAKER_01: you know, like a role player.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Once I got into high school,
31:23
SPEAKER_01: I didn't play my first varsity minute until my junior year.
31:27
So I went through the – played for the freshman team freshman year,
31:31
played JV sophomore year.
31:32
Then I ended up starting my junior year and then had a really
31:38
good senior year.
31:40
So like growing up,
31:43
up until probably my senior year in high school,
31:46
I was never –
31:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I was ever the focal point of any team that I was on.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: I was never really the guy.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: I always had to work my way up, work my way up, work my way up.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Honestly,
32:07
SPEAKER_01: for me growing up, I just thought that was normal.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I came from a high,
32:11
SPEAKER_01: like a high,
32:12
SPEAKER_01: or when I went to high school,
32:13
SPEAKER_01: I had a high school coach,
32:14
SPEAKER_01: very old school,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: kind of like a wait your turn,
32:17
SPEAKER_01: write a passage type of thing where underclassmen,
32:20
SPEAKER_01: you do your time,
32:22
do the grind of working your way up through the various levels
32:26
of the program.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: And then once he felt like you were ready, you know, you go and play.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: And at that time I wasn't, I didn't play much.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I played, like, one year of AAU.
32:37
I wasn't playing,
32:37
like,
32:38
competitively,
32:39
like,
32:39
on the AAU circuit or anything.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: I more so played in high school just because I really enjoyed it.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: I really liked it.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: But,
32:49
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
32:49
SPEAKER_01: so I kind of thought that,
32:51
SPEAKER_01: like,
32:53
SPEAKER_01: the whole work your way up,
32:54
SPEAKER_01: do your time,
32:55
SPEAKER_01: do the grind thing was,
32:56
SPEAKER_01: like,
32:56
SPEAKER_01: kind of just normal.
32:58
Like,
32:59
when I would go as,
33:01
like,
33:01
a freshman and watch our varsity team play,
33:03
and if I saw,
33:03
like –
33:04
SPEAKER_01: you know, another freshman get varsity minutes.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: I was like, holy crap.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is crazy.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: It never happened at our school.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: I just thought it was kind of like, you know, normal.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: So initially too, when I went into college, do I wish I played?
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:21
But once again,
33:22
like,
33:23
I don't,
33:27
like,
33:27
I definitely thought I could get some minutes.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: But the fact that I didn't and I clearly knew why I wasn't,
33:34
SPEAKER_01: it was just the coach felt like I wasn't physically ready.
33:37
I knew exactly what to do to kind of make sure that I was ready
33:43
for the next year.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it came in like 6'5", 165 pounds.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: By that time next year, I was 6'5", 200.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, look, if I'm not going to play,
33:56
SPEAKER_01: What did that take?
33:58
SPEAKER_01: What did that take?
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh,
33:59
SPEAKER_01: so I'm sure if we were able to get my assistant coach on the podcast,
34:03
SPEAKER_01: he knows where,
34:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
34:05
SPEAKER_01: when you have access to a all you can eat dining hall,
34:09
SPEAKER_01: that'll definitely change it a bit.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: But I know Coach E will love this story.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: But at least one meal a day,
34:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
34:20
SPEAKER_01: I was going to the dining hall,
34:21
SPEAKER_01: eating everything I could,
34:22
SPEAKER_01: trying to eat 4,000 whatever plus calories a day,
34:25
SPEAKER_01: lift.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
34:27
SPEAKER_01: if I'm not playing,
34:28
I knew I wasn't going to play because I was just so far out of
34:31
the rotation.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't care if I'm sore as hell in practice.
34:34
I'm going to lift five,
34:36
still lift five,
34:36
six times a week and get up extra shots.
34:43
like one meal a day I would just eat just literally like one
34:47
meal a day it was just
34:48
like spinach and raw tofu like every like one meal a day for
34:53
like my whole freshman
34:54
year and honestly once I had pretty much like unfettered access
35:02
to you know
35:03
a weight room and the gym all the time,
35:06
I was like,
35:06
oh,
35:07
this is fantastic.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: That's when I feel like I truly fell in love with the whole process of,
35:15
SPEAKER_01: you know,
35:15
just getting better and you're just knowing what I need to do
35:19
to get to that next level.
35:22
But yeah,
35:24
growing up through my whole basketball journey,
35:27
it was like I felt like I've always
35:29
gradually work my way up i was never like uh you know this
35:36
crazy talented
35:38
know basketball player growing up um like even my first couple
35:41
years playing in
35:42
high school i knew why i wasn't playing just kept working then
35:47
by my junior year i
35:48
started was a decent role player and then by my senior year um
35:53
you know turned to
35:54
be a you know a really good player was fortunate enough to be
35:56
able to play in
35:57
SPEAKER_01: college but i felt like for me
36:02
SPEAKER_01: like just going through the whole grind and working my way up was just,
36:06
SPEAKER_01: for me,
36:07
SPEAKER_01: was just always felt like a natural part of my basketball journey.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: It was never like, oh, I'm so mad I'm not playing.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm so, I should be playing coaches this or coaches that.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of just like,
36:19
SPEAKER_01: okay,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: like,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: I just got to do,
36:23
SPEAKER_01: like,
36:24
SPEAKER_01: I always knew why maybe I wasn't playing.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, okay.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: And then I,
36:31
SPEAKER_01: I read this quote where it was just like,
36:35
you just have to be so good to a point where it's like coach
36:39
can't even question
36:40
SPEAKER_01: playing you.
36:41
Like if there's a chance of you could envision in your head
36:45
where coach is like,
36:46
SPEAKER_01: okay,
36:47
SPEAKER_01: like I could see why he's going with this player over me.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, no, I got to be so good where it's not even a doubt.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: So even after my freshman year and I was –
36:59
SPEAKER_01: played like 10 minutes.
37:00
I was like,
37:01
my,
37:01
I remember going into coach's office and he would,
37:05
he would tell you this.
37:06
I said,
37:07
my,
37:07
the next year,
37:09
my sophomore year,
37:09
I know I played like 10 minutes the whole year.
37:11
I'm going to start next year,
37:12
my junior year,
37:13
I'm going to be all conference.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: And then senior year, I'm going to be the best player in the country.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: And I said that to him.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: And at that time, I truly, truly believed it.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
37:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm coming to my sophomore year,
37:24
SPEAKER_01: and I'm going to be so good that coach has no option but to not,
37:28
SPEAKER_01: like,
37:28
SPEAKER_01: start me.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And you started 25 games.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: So that was the whole process was I never –
37:39
SPEAKER_01: obviously I wish I was playing my freshman year,
37:41
SPEAKER_01: but I never took it as like,
37:43
SPEAKER_01: that's where my journey stops or my ceiling is only,
37:47
SPEAKER_01: is only capped to be this high or like everything's against me.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: It was like, no, it's just part of the process.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: If like, could I have seen myself playing even as skinny as I was?
37:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: But coach had his reasons for not.
38:00
So I got to get to a certain level where coach can't come up
38:04
with a single reason
38:05
SPEAKER_01: to not play me.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: So that was just what I, what I, um,
38:09
SPEAKER_01: Took with me.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
38:11
SPEAKER_01: after that,
38:12
SPEAKER_01: probably that first season,
38:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
38:14
SPEAKER_01: my freshman year is when I really,
38:16
truly started falling in love with the whole process of just
38:20
keep getting better
38:21
SPEAKER_01: and better and better.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: I just think it's a valuable story for people to hear these days,
38:28
SPEAKER_00: especially,
38:30
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:31
SPEAKER_00: you not playing AAU really,
38:33
SPEAKER_00: like you just did a single year.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, everyone is so hyper-focused.
38:37
Like we get messages all the time from parents with eighth
38:41
graders saying like,
38:42
SPEAKER_00: what can I do to maximize my kids' exposure?
38:44
SPEAKER_00: It's like,
38:45
SPEAKER_00: just go let them play,
38:46
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:46
SPEAKER_00: like find better kids in your neighborhood that are,
38:50
SPEAKER_00: simulate what you experienced that first year at TCNJ.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Just,
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Get more quality competition, hunt competition when you're not playing.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to play with a fancy jersey.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to play in a fancy league.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, just basketball is basketball.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And you can get those reps in and slowly work your way up.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: It's not going to be an overnight thing, but I think, yeah.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people,
39:15
if they put the time in and they're lifting five days a week
39:17
and slamming tofu and
39:19
SPEAKER_00: spinach at least once a day,
39:21
SPEAKER_00: that sounds like a good recipe.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I will say this.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: I think looking back,
39:33
SPEAKER_01: overall,
39:33
SPEAKER_01: me not playing my first year ended up being more beneficial,
39:39
SPEAKER_01: I think,
39:39
than if I had played a lot because I think that year is what
39:42
really set the tone
39:43
SPEAKER_01: for
39:45
like the drive that I had over the next three years after that
39:50
and still continuing
39:51
SPEAKER_01: to this day was just like,
39:54
SPEAKER_01: I think the fact that the possibility,
39:59
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
39:59
SPEAKER_01: okay,
40:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't want my next three years to go like this.
40:02
So I'm going to put myself in a position where this is never
40:07
going to be a
40:08
SPEAKER_01: possibility on any team I'm on again.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: So honestly, overall, like, I don't know.
40:16
I just think if you're not playing or there's a lot of these
40:23
things you need to overcome,
40:25
SPEAKER_01: I just think you just got to put in the work and become so much better,
40:32
SPEAKER_01: provide a skill set that makes it unquestionable for the coach.
40:38
Maybe if there's some political things or even if he doesn't
40:40
like you to be like,
40:41
SPEAKER_01: okay,
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I got to play him regardless because he's that valuable.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: All right.
40:48
Well,
40:48
we're getting close to time,
40:50
but I want to touch on two more things.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: One, you talked about TCNJ being, you know, affordable.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: You grew up in Somerville, New Jersey, not too far away.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: So you were close to home.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: You got in-state tuition.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: What else about TCNJ convinced you?
41:05
SPEAKER_00: What did you major in?
41:06
Like,
41:06
what were those other factors for you that,
41:08
and maybe why you chose it over other places?
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: So, um,
41:15
uh tcnj is i think the top public school in new jersey so like
41:21
right off the bat um
41:24
you know that was also a huge plus you know my parents were
41:27
they cared more about
41:28
the academic side in terms of me going to college and anything
41:31
else basketball wise
41:33
so at the time when my recruitment started picking up i was
41:35
getting recruited by
41:36
you know uh some division twos a lot of high academic division
41:40
threes but i think
41:43
A lot of the Division II schools weren't up to par of what my
41:46
parents wanted,
41:46
SPEAKER_01: so immediately wasn't even considering them.
41:49
And then a lot of the other schools I was getting recruited by
41:52
that were really
41:54
SPEAKER_01: high academic,
41:56
SPEAKER_01: like they were just way too expensive.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, I took a visit at TCNJ.
42:09
obviously other than the basketball-wise because I believed in
42:11
their vision and the
42:14
SPEAKER_01: culture that they were setting.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: But absolutely beautiful campus.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know anything about their campus, but really nice.
42:24
And then overall,
42:26
I since switched my major when I was in college,
42:30
but they had a really good –
42:34
SPEAKER_01: PT program, which is what I initially wanted to go for.
42:37
And they had a,
42:37
you know,
42:38
a really good,
42:39
um,
42:40
health and exercise program for that.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I committed there.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: So it was just perfect factors for everything.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Good school,
42:46
SPEAKER_01: uh,
42:47
SPEAKER_01: affordable,
42:48
SPEAKER_01: um,
42:49
SPEAKER_01: would have a chance to play there for four years,
42:51
SPEAKER_01: close to home,
42:52
SPEAKER_01: literally everything that I would,
42:53
SPEAKER_01: would have wanted,
42:54
SPEAKER_01: um,
42:55
SPEAKER_01: check the boxes.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think, yeah, I think still by the,
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I think it was even before my senior year I ended up committing there.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: I took one visit there and I knew this is a perfect fit.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: What makes the campus nice?
43:18
SPEAKER_01: I think it's very aesthetically pleasing to just walk around.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: And especially sometimes in New Jersey where it gets,
43:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
43:27
SPEAKER_01: this is mine,
43:27
SPEAKER_01: but during the fall time it's beautiful.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of really nice
43:33
trees that that surround the campus and and it looks beautiful
43:37
during the fall but
43:38
then also like during the winter time uh when it when it snows
43:42
sometimes up here in
43:43
SPEAKER_01: jersey um
43:45
SPEAKER_01: It looks beautiful.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: I just think it's a very aesthetically pleasing campus to look at.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: And also,
43:51
SPEAKER_01: I think convenient-wise,
43:52
I think you can literally walk across one side of the campus to
43:57
the other in,
43:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
43:59
SPEAKER_01: 15,
43:59
SPEAKER_01: 20 minutes.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: So everything's super easy and accessible to be able to get around to.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: Before we get to the closing question,
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Your nickname, Randy Iceberg Walco.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: What is the backstory of Iceberg?
44:15
SPEAKER_01: So my dad in high school,
44:19
he started calling me Iceberg Slim because he read somewhere on
44:25
like ESPN that I
44:27
SPEAKER_01: think like Stephen A.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Smith or something was trying to get like
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Kevin Durant's nickname to be, like, Iceberg Slim or something.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: It never took off.
44:37
But my dad always said I played,
44:38
like,
44:38
a mini Asian Kevin Durant in high school.
44:43
So,
44:44
you know,
44:45
my dad was one of those,
44:47
like,
44:47
he's yelling the whole game,
44:50
like,
44:50
just cheering.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: He's not being, like, a rabid fan, but he'll just –
44:58
you hear him you'll definitely know he's there yeah he started
45:02
calling me that in
45:02
high school our student section eventually you know started
45:06
taking notice so people
45:08
in high school started even calling me iceberg then once i got
45:10
in uh college then
45:13
pretty much everybody started knowing me as iceberg i think in
45:16
college more people
45:17
called me iceberg especially on the team rather than like randy
45:20
i don't know and
45:22
then i got into taiwan here they also found out that that's why
45:26
i was being called
45:27
SPEAKER_01: and
45:28
SPEAKER_01: It's funny because on the broadcast,
45:29
SPEAKER_01: you would sometimes just hear the call of,
45:34
SPEAKER_01: if I score something,
45:35
SPEAKER_01: you'll just hear a bunch of Mandarin and then iceberg.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: They don't say it in Mandarin?
45:41
no they just say so it's funny so even if you don't have the
45:44
broadcast but you hear
45:45
iceberg 99 probably percent talking about me so um just kind of
45:51
once i got here
45:51
yeah it's kind of just been like my moniker i guess for the
45:55
last i guess at this
45:56
SPEAKER_01: point nine ten years so
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Strong.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Last question.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: If you could go back and have a conversation with your 18 year old self,
46:09
SPEAKER_00: what advice would you give yourself?
46:14
SPEAKER_01: I honestly probably would have just told myself to be more confident.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: I think even coming into like,
46:26
coming into college and even high school,
46:28
I was a bit more shyer,
46:33
a little bit more reserved.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Athletically, even like off the court, I kind of,
46:40
like if something didn't go my way or something I was kind of I
46:45
was gonna be like
46:45
okay like I feel a little bad but I I'd be like okay and I
46:50
guess maybe I understand
46:51
like I was pretty I don't know I was pretty like passive in a
46:56
sense and there'd be
46:56
times where like especially like I don't know like for example
47:00
on the court in high
47:00
SPEAKER_01: school if I we're going up against a really good team and
47:06
if i and let's say they're a ranked team and we're playing i
47:10
would just be like oh
47:11
i don't know if i'm good enough to be on the court or something
47:13
like that um even
47:14
coming into college you know my first year playing against you
47:18
know the big the big
47:20
dudes i'm talking about i'm like damn how do i even i don't
47:23
know this is a totally
47:24
different beast than what i even expected um i would have just
47:27
told myself like hey
47:28
SPEAKER_01: like you should be more confident in in your ability like just
47:35
SPEAKER_01: You're going to put in the work.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: You're going to develop a good sense of discipline.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
47:42
SPEAKER_01: You're going to be just fine.
47:45
Everything that's supposed to happen is going to happen if you
47:48
put in the time and
47:49
SPEAKER_01: you put in the work.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think now more than ever, you know, now I'm sharing –
47:55
SPEAKER_01: You know,
47:55
SPEAKER_01: my fourth,
47:56
SPEAKER_01: fifth year,
47:56
SPEAKER_01: and I'm constantly,
47:58
SPEAKER_01: like,
47:58
SPEAKER_01: being matched up against dudes that played in the NBA,
48:00
SPEAKER_01: played in EuroLeague,
48:01
SPEAKER_01: and now we're on the same court.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: And now, obviously, my sense of confidence is much, much higher.
48:09
But that all comes from the hours and hours of work that I put
48:12
in to get to this point.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: So I would have just told myself, like, just be more confident.
48:16
You know,
48:17
maybe you're not at the place you want to be,
48:19
but if you do everything right,
48:23
SPEAKER_01: And you have a good discipline, good work ethic.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, everything's going to turn out.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Everything's going to turn out great.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: That's what I probably would tell myself.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: That's great advice.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: That's a good place to end it.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just believe in yourself.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Things will work out.
48:42
I think as an 18 year old,
48:43
17 year old,
48:44
it can feel like,
48:46
you know,
48:46
everything is so.
48:49
so life or death like if i don't get into the right school then
48:52
my life's gonna be
48:53
over you know yeah just trust keep keep working and yeah it'll
48:58
all work out and
49:00
that uh and yeah i i think i started taking it as nothing is
49:05
really ever as bad as
49:06
it seems because like you said people might think their life's
49:11
over if they don't
49:11
get in the school they want or you know they don't have uh the
49:15
wrong whatever
49:16
SPEAKER_01: athletics team that they that they want but
49:20
SPEAKER_01: nothing has ever,
49:22
SPEAKER_01: well,
49:22
SPEAKER_01: obviously there's exceptions,
49:23
SPEAKER_01: but nothing is ever as deep as it,
49:25
SPEAKER_01: as it seems from a sports perspective.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: And from a sports perspective.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: All right.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's wrap it up.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: It's late in Taiwan.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: We got to get, get, get a Randy so he can get his rest.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: But, uh, thanks for joining us, man.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: This has been a great conversation.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, at the top of the program, long overdue.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, I, I, sorry.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: I, sometimes I feel like, uh,
49:48
I kind of ramble on going some side tangents,
49:51
but I appreciate you having me as a lot of fun.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Tons and tons of wisdom in here for kids,
49:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
49:56
SPEAKER_00: that want to follow in your footsteps,
49:58
SPEAKER_00: play a college sport,
49:59
SPEAKER_00: whether it's close to home like you,
50:01
SPEAKER_00: or,
50:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
50:02
SPEAKER_00: eventually go play pro in a,
50:04
SPEAKER_00: in a country 10,000 miles away.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: So, um, yeah, thanks for joining us.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: And, um,
50:11
Sounds like we're going to have to tune into some Dreamers
50:13
broadcast to hear the
50:15
SPEAKER_00: iceberg call live.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: You might have to.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: You might have to.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: But no, thank you so much.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: This was a lot of fun.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I've been following your page for years at this point.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: So when you asked me to come on, it was a no-brainer.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for having me.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: You bet.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: All right, this has been another episode of the Student Athlete Sessions.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: You can catch all the previous ones wherever you get your podcasts.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Check out Randy on Instagram.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: That's where we follow him the most.
50:42
He's posting highlights and reposting stuff from the Dreamers
50:46
so you can see what
50:47
SPEAKER_00: he's doing over in Taiwan.
50:49
And as always,
50:51
check us out if you need more D3 recruiting or admissions advice.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: We're here to help, so ask away.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.