Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Dr.Dino Kent Hovind Christian Minister Destroys 3 Evolutionists LIVE Debate

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Dr.Dino Kent Hovind Christian Minister Destroys 3 Evolutionists LIVE Debate · Brett Keane and Eve Show

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  T, minus ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three,
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  two, one, zero ignition. It's an honor to be here
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  tonight. My name is Kent hovind, I live
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  in Pensacola Florida. I taught High School science for
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  15 years, and now I travel and do seminars on creation,
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  Evolution and dinosaurs. And my Ministry is not
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  government funded. This is not my wife.
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  Just to picture of her. We have three kids.
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  One of each I have all the kids, He's married off in the dog
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  died. So I made it.
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  I'm home free. It's wonderful.
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  And my lovely daughter and her husband over here is raise your
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  hand. They're Paula Marlisa.
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  Good to have them here tonight. And I got two grandkids, one
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  more due in a few days and another one due in about seven
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  months. So I'll have four, grandkids,
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  all under 3. When it's over with, I'm the
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  founder of dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola Florida.
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  If you ever got to Pensacola, you need to stop and see that
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  place. We have a science center by
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  Museum and a theme park all based on creation and give glory
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  to God for his creation instead of teaching evolution.
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  We offer a lot of home school classes have a lot of video
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  materials available. We have a creation boot camp,
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  coming up this September and you're all invited to come up to
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  that. We believe that the Creation
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  ought to glorify the god of the Creator and he ought to get
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  credit for what he did. So our position is the Bible is
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  true. Evolution theory is seriously
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  wrong and one of the dumbest and most dangerous religions in the
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  history of the world, that's our totally unbiased opinion on the
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  subject. Thank you so much.
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  Professors. I'll start my name is Jim
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  Strayer. I'm from Michigan.
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  I started my educational career in a small Methodist school.
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  I went there for two years and then transferred to Eastern,
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  Michigan University to get a major in biology, and a minor in
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  chemistry taught school for a few years and went into the army
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  and served as a corpsman of the US Army hospital, came home and
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  and after a few more years of teaching, I was awarded a
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  National Science Foundation scholarship to get a master's
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  degree in biology and got that from the University of Michigan.
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  Okay, okay. Brian a I have you finished.
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  Sorry. No, I have around 100 hours of
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  semester hours of by of Science and most of that's in biology
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  and I retired a few years ago. And since then I've been keeping
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  active by giving lectures on Charles Darwin and evolution and
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  related biological subjects. I'm very happy to be here and I
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  feel very comfortable in front of the college crowd and we
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  should have a good time. I'm Ryan old sleeper, I teach
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  here and that means I live around this area, too, and
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  there's no way I'm going to be able to top that introduction
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  that we just heard. So I'll just be staying on the
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  side of modesty and stop right here.
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  My name is Luther eyes, big. I'm a professor of aerospace.
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  Engineering I graduated from Michigan State University where
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  I got my PhD in engineering there.
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  I'm probably the least qualified person to be here, talking about
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  any of these matters, but but I'll apologize and we'll do what
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  we can. Thank you very much.
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  Thank you very much, dr. Hoffman.
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  You don't have 12 minutes to make an opening case.
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  All right, well, let's define a few positions.
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  I believe very strongly that the Earth is about, 6000 years old.
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  It was created in six literal 24 hour days, this position would
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  make a few predictions. The Bible says, clearly, in six
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  days, the Lord made Heaven and Earth and all that in them is
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  everything created in six days. Now, based on that prediction,
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  based on that premise, we can make a few predictions which is
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  what science is supposed to do. A scientific theory is supposed
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  to allow you to make predictions.
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  I predict based on the Bible teaching that the universe will
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  show evidence of order and Design, 9 all over the place.
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  Okay, I predict that we will find thousands of symbiotic
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  relationships in nature animals that require certain plants and
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  plants that require certain animals and it works just fine
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  because they were all created within a few days of each other.
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  Not a problem at all, for the creationist view point.
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  I predict that there will be limits to the variations that
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  life-forms, able to produce the Bible says they will bring forth
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  after their kind. And that's what we have
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  observed. A six thousand years of human
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  history. Shows us dogs produce dogs every
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  time. Might be a big dog or a little
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  dog, might have curly hair or straight hair, but it's going to
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  be a dog, guaranteed. Okay Farmers actually count on
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  that. I mean, when they plant corn,
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  they expect to get corn and so far, it has happened.
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  So certainly, there are variations but there are
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  definite limits to the variations in, this is where the
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  major difference comes between the creationist and the
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  evolutionist. I predict that they're not only
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  limits to the variation, I predict that there will be
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  actually a purpose to life because we were designed by a
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  creator for a purpose, that's a prediction based.
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  On the Bible view, I predict there will be non material,
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  things like love sense of justice, Mercy innate knowledge
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  of right and wrong a conscience and absolute truth.
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  Those things are not possible with the evolution Theory.
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  They are predicted based on the creation theory of somebody
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  designed this for a reason. I predict that they will be a
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  way to find the will of the Creator such as messenger
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  speaking for him or maybe even a book telling us why he did it
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  and how he did it. I predict there will be an
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  afterlife, we will face the Creator.
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  To give an accounting, okay? The Bible dates, if you add them
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  up in, scripture comes to about 6,000 years ago for the
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  creation, not Millions, there's a large difference between 6,000
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  and 20 billion. Congress doesn't seem to
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  understand that, but there is a big difference.
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  Okay? Now, based on the Bible teaching
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  that the Earth was originally created where people live to be
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  900 years old, I predict we will find lots of Legends about a
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  golden age and a creation event. The seems to be kind of
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  universal throughout history. Most people believe there was a
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  creation and most people believe there was a time when man used
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  to live too near to be nearly 1,000, the Greeks talked about
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  at the Babylonians. Talked about, at the Sumerians,
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  everybody talked about this Golden Age, why?
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  Well that's predicted based on the creation Viewpoint.
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  Okay. I predict they will be
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  skeletons. Found of people showing signs of
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  great age because they were living to be much older.
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  You know, before things happen, and as you grow, especially the
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  brow Ridge of your head, never stops, growing the constant pull
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  on the back of your head, the occipital bun based on just the
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  muscles from holding your head. Forward is going to elongate the
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  head over two or three or four hundred years.
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  People would look exactly like the Neanderthals look brain 13
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  percent bigger than ours, few strange things about their head
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  but 100% human. In every respect, I predict that
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  there will be biological problems with modern man, such
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  as wisdom teeth because we're not as big as we used to be and
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  we're developing probably faster.
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  People are maturing faster. Their only living to be an 80 or
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  90 instead of living to be 900. And wisdom teeth are a problem
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  today, not because of evolution but because we're actually
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  genetically inferior. Here to the original model Adam
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  and Eve, okay? I predict it will be Universal
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  longing for things to be restored to the Garden of Eden
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  conditions. That's what everybody seems to
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  want. Okay, now, what difference does
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  it make if you believe in evolution or creation?
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  Well, if evolution is true, how do we tell right from wrong
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  anytime tonight? I would like any one of these
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  gentlemen, to answer the simple question, If evolution is true.
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  How does anybody tell right from wrong?
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  If I wanted you to make a list of 10 things that are wrong?
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  Before you put anything on the list, I want to know how are you
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  deciding? Are you deciding right from
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  wrong? Based on what Osama Bin Laden
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  things? Do we decide right from wrong?
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  Based on what Congress thinks do we decide right from wrong?
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  Based on the majority? How do we decide right from
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  wrong? Simple question, I've never had
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  answered. If evolution is true death,
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  brought man into the world and death is actually the hero of
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  the plot because if evolution is true, one animal evolves a
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  little better than the rest for some reason, maybe a mutation or
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  something, what must happen. On to the rest of them, they
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  have to die. Otherwise the good genes are
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  deluded back into the population.
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  And lost evolution is a, religion of death.
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  Death is actually the hero of the plot.
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  If the Bible is true, then man brought death into the world.
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  If evolution is true death, brought man into the world.
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  These two views cannot possibly be more opposite.
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  Somebody is wrong Can I enjoy showing who they are.
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  And that's why I'm here. Okay.
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  Now the Bible says clearly that by one man sin came into the
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  world and death by sin, the reason we have death and
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  suffering today is because of man's Disobedience to the
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  Creator. Bible says by Man Came Death in
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  Adam all die. We have suffering and death
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  because of man's Disobedience. If evolution is true, you could
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  read Charles Darwin's book, page, 170 or page 217 he said,
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  hey we death and struggle for life is the is a wonderful
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  thing. That's how we get a Ahead.
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  Okay. Now the creation view says there
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  was a flood about 4,400 years ago.
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  Now this would make a few predictions based on the idea
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  that there was a universal flood.
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  I think I could predict that the Earth will have hundreds of
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  layers of strata floods. Automatically do that, moving
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  water sorts particles and all sorts of layers.
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  You can get a jar of dirt, add some water to it, and Shake It
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  Up and set it down. And in 20 seconds, you'll have
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  layers forming in your jar. Moving water automatically sorts
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  particles is called hydrologic shorting.
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  You Engineers ought to know about that.
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  I predict based. Bible teaching of the flood that
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  there will be billions of fossils, including coal and oil
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  found in those layers of sedimentary rock.
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  That we find all over the earth. I predict there will be huge
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  canyons and Delta's showing evidence of Rapid a massive
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  erosion. I predict that we'll be Legends
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  of this world wide flood found in cultures all over the world.
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  That's a prediction based on the biblical View Bible biblical
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  view of creation is certainly scientific, it makes predictions
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  okay I predict them. Be petrified trees in the
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  vertical position. Extending through all of these
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  layers. Thousands and thousands of these
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  trees have been found around the world petrified standing up
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  connecting layers that some people want you to believe are
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  different ages. Not how long a dead tree stands
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  up around here before it falls down.
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  But up in Pensacola you get, maybe five or ten years maximum
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  before the tree falls over. And yet, they're telling us
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  these layers are different ages. We have dozens of pictures of
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  these polystrate fossils on our website doctored.
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  I know.com now somebody wants you to believe.
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  Layers are different ages by millions of years.
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  Well, they're welcome to teach you whatever they want, but this
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  is simply not in accordance with the evidence.
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  I believe the Bible would predict, we would find things
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  like this polystrate fossils. A worldwide flood would do that.
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  Now, science means knowledge. Okay, a more expanded definition
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  of science means knowledge, gained by observation and study
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  and testing. My contention is there is
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  absolutely nothing scientific about the evolution theory.
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  If we Define what we mean by Evolution carefully, which I
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  want to do in my last few minutes here.
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  I like science. I taught High School science for
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  15 years. I love the study study of
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  science. I am not against science but I'm
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  against using lies to support a theory.
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  And I'm certainly against telling people that science can
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  go farther than it really can. Okay?
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  Now Texas has a law that requires textbooks to be
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  accurate. So does Florida, Florida?
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  Statute, one oo6 is a must be accuracy of instructional
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  materials textbooks, ought to be accurate.
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  Wisconsin says, textbooks ought to be accurate.
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  Alabama, says textbook shall be adequate and current.
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  California says, textbooks shall be factually.
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  Accurate Minnesota says, a teacher shall not deliberately
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  suppressed or distort subject matter.
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  These are all wonderful laws, but not one of those States and
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  forces them. Textbook says, we have evidence
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  of evolution. Okay, what kind of evidence do
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  they give this guy says evolution is fact not a theory
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  Birds arose from non birds and humans from nonhumans no person
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  who pretends to, any understanding of the natural
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  world can deny these facts. Well, it's okay to make a
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  statement like that, but that's just a mantra that doesn't make
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  it true because he states that, even if he states that loudly
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  and forcefully, it doesn't make it true, okay?
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  The word Evolution has six different meanings, first of
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  all, they would have to be Cosmic Evolution.
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  That would be the origin of time space matter.
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  They try to answer that with the Big Bang Theory.
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  With which there are numerous problems.
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  We cover that on our video tape number one, the second meaning
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  or level or stage of evolution Theory would have to be chemical
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  Evolution. If the Big Bang produced
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  hydrogen well then how did we get all these other elements?
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  They want me to believe that uranium evolve from hydrogen.
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  So you get Fusion in Stars. Well first place you can't fuse
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  past iron number one and secondly if you want the Stars
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  to produce the elements, you have a chicken and an egg
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  problem here, which came first. The elements to make the stars
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  or the Stars to make the elements.
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  You have a real problem here. They never talk about chemical
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  Evolution. I'd like to hear that answer
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  tonight. Thirdly would have to have
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  Stellar Evolution. The Stars would have to evolve
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  nobody's ever proven the formation of any one star.
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  We see a few stuffy spots getting brighter and they're
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  assuming a Stars forming know. It could be the dust is clearing
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  it could be a supernova taking place.
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  There's all kinds of explanations.
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  Nobody's ever proven a star conform and yet it's know now
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  that there are about 11 trillion Stars per person on this planet.
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  Each of you can own 11 trillion of them.
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  How did the Stars evolve? Fourthly.
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  We have to have organic evolution the origin of Life.
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  How did life get started? Fifthly is macro-evolution when
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  animal changes to a different kind of animal, nobody's ever
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  seen any of these first five. Lastly is what's called
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  microevolution I object to the term but they use it so I'll use
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  it. Microevolution tells us there
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  are varieties within the same kind big dogs, little dogs.
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  Okay, this one happens. The first five are purely
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  religious. And if you want to believe in
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  those first five you enjoy yourself but don't call it
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  science and don't make me pay to teach that to the next.
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  A short generation of kids as part of science because it's
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  not, it's nothing but a religion, they teach 20 billion
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  years ago, a big bang and you know, that's whatever, that's
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  what the evolution theory is based on.
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  You have to have an origin Point eighteen or Twenty billion years
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  ago. There was a big bang.
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  I think the evolution Theory as is currently taught in our
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  textbooks is totally unscientific there's no sir not
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  a shred of evidence to back it up and I simply resent paying
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  for it. So my position is that the
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  evolution Theory, which teaches clearly, 20 billion years ago?
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  Big Bang then it says millions of years of torrential rains,
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  created the oceans as the Earth cooled down, you know.
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  Cool down into a rocky crust and then oceans formed over millions
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  of years. This textbook says swirling in
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  the waters of the oceans is a bubbling broth of complex
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  chemicals progress. From a complex chemical soup to
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  a living organism is very slow. Sure is they don't even happen.
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  That's how slow it is. This guy said the first
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  self-replicating systems must have emerged in this organic
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  soup. So according to the evolution
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  Theory, 20 billion years ago, Big Bang, 4.6 billion years ago,
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  the earth, cooled down, rain down, the rocks for millions of
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  years and turned them into soup and the soup came alive 3
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  billion years. Years ago.
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  So, great, great, great. Great, great.
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  Great grandpa was soup. Okay, now it's true.
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  There's a lot of dogs in the world but they didn't come from
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  a rock for three points, four billion years ago or whatever
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  you want to say. So the evolution is a dying
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  religion, surviving only on tax dollars, Evolution theory is
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  positively anti-science, there's not a shred of real evidence to
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  support any of the theories except oft repeated lies.
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  Let's define one more term in my last 30 seconds, stupid lacking
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  normal intelligence foolish, silly a stupid idea.
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  Dull and boring evolution is not even a good theory.
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  I think it is stupid. Thank you
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  Professor. Is you not have 12 minutes to
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  present your opening arguments and additional five minutes to
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  rebuttal dr. Havens position and state a
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  question back to him. Thank you.
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  Well, I suppose you'd like to know what I teach when I teach
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  Evolution. I think you should take a look
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  at the black sheet up here to see what the definition of
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  evolution is biological. Evolution is a change in the
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  gene pool of population over time.
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  It's really very simple. Do we have a gene pool?
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  Do we have DNA? Well, of course, we do.
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  Every living thing has DNA, does it change?
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  Well, of course it does. We can see it change, we know
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  what didn't what DNA sequencing is we do?
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  Do it all the time. We can check the jeans and any
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  plant or animal. Now that we want to his there
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  been a time and enough time for that to happen.
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  All of course there has. If you'll take a look at the the
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  green sheet over here, you'll see that the age of the Earth
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  has been found out by astronomers to the age of the
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  Earth that geologist of the age of the Earth, we use the
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  radioactivity to find out the age.
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  We've used plate tectonics and movement of Planets, we use
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  biology. And what's interesting about
• 16:57
  these things is that they've all Rive dat.
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  The same answer using different science.
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  If one of them have found a different answer, there would
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  have been something wrong, but they didn't, the astronomers
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  agreed with the geologist and the geologist agreed with
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  radioactivity in the radioactive green plate.
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  Tectonics, they all agreed on a basic time that we've just heard
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  four and a half billion years old.
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  Now, how do I, how do I try to get this across from our
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  students? Well, I talked to them about
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  natural selection in what natural selection really means.
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  If you look at the red part down here, is that everything that
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  has genes over produces everything that has DNA
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  overproduces? So there's always more
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  population than can be there. Let me give you an example.
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  If you started out with two, Cockroaches and cockroaches
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  lived in a perfect place. A cockroach perfect place.
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  If the end of seven months, there would be 164 billion of
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  them. Will there's not 164 billion of
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  them because there's no perfect place for them instead they're
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  in competition with each other. They're in competition for food.
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  They're in competition for space in their competition for
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  meeting. So what happens is that there
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  has to be a survival whoo-hoo. Survive.
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  Some people say the survival of the fittest.
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  Well that means you don't understand Evolution.
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  It's not survival of the fittest is survival of the one that can
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  live long enough to find a mate and reproduce ants work
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  together. Only one of them's going to
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  reproduce the rest of them are going to try to help somebody
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  reproduce. So what survival of the fit?
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  Not survival of the fittest. And of course, what happens is
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  those individuals get to reproduce and that species.
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  Wives. But look at we talked about
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  billions and billions of cockroaches not surviving.
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  Why is that? And the answer is they had some
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  genetic changes that we're good. The idea is to have some tiny,
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  little changes in your DNA, maybe it takes five or six
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  seven, twenty generations for to show up even, but when it does
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  show up is good. Evolution is extremely
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  inefficient. So it's little synthesis.
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  Inefficient biological processes really Bishop.
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  It's just a bad design, but what happens is some of the make it
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  and you know, some of them don't.
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  So when I'm doing this, I have to use some kind of a science.
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  So, if you look at the black sheet down here with the blue
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  markings around it, I talked about fossils and I talked about
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  genetics and I talked about homology are the structures of
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  plants and animals and I talk about distribution in the
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  planet, and I talked about embryology.
• 19:50
  But what's interesting about these things is They all agree.
• 19:54
  They all approach Evolution from a different point of view in
• 19:58
  yet. They agree that if we don't have
• 20:00
  any fossils along not, it wouldn't matter.
• 20:03
  Who's still have enough information to prove, that
• 20:05
  Evolution took place. If we didn't have any formal
• 20:07
  logic structures to look at it doesn't matter.
• 20:10
  We still have enough Evolution facts to show that it took
• 20:13
  place. Now I have, I had a problem
• 20:18
  solve for me by the Supreme Court.
• 20:21
  It happens that Let's have been nine cases brought by
• 20:28
  creationists to the federal courts against Evolution.
• 20:34
  They were competing against each other in the Supreme Court.
• 20:39
  The first one was cases that really was important took place
• 20:42
  in a 1968, but in 1982, the Supreme Court case of McClellan
• 20:50
  versus a Kansas Board of Education.
• 20:53
  Ruled any decision that gave a detailed definition of the term
• 20:59
  science. The court declared that creation
• 21:03
  science is not, in fact a science what that meant is it
• 21:09
  people were teaching High School like me at that time.
• 21:12
  That meant I couldn't teach creation.
• 21:15
  It was a religion, you know, I could teach I could teach
• 21:19
  Evolution because it fit the definition of science Now that
• 21:24
  that court case was challenged by two teachers, one of them
• 21:28
  challenge that on the basis. Did he had the right to teach
• 21:33
  because of freedom of speech? They could do what he wanted on
• 21:35
  his class, only lost that case. And he lost it very simply
• 21:40
  because he was trying to teach Creation in a public school that
• 21:43
  doesn't allow religion to be taught in a public school.
• 21:46
  He lost. He should have known better to
• 21:47
  bring the case. And in another guy challenge,
• 21:50
  did he challenge it on the idea that well, I'll make my own
• 21:54
  curriculum, I'll show. Those guys were all of course.
• 21:57
  What happened is the school board said you know hey fella
• 21:59
  you don't make the curriculum this place we make it and he
• 22:03
  lost the case to know. I hope that makes you understand
• 22:08
  why the creationist want to get to the seventh grade, they're
• 22:12
  going to get to the seventh grade because that's the only
• 22:15
  place you can talk to school board's, who don't know anything
• 22:18
  about evolution. Let me explain this to you, when
• 22:22
  I'm going to use a textbook. What do I use?
• 22:25
  I use one like this one. This textbook is pretty basic
• 22:31
  tax. It could be used in the
• 22:32
  University of Florida University of Michigan and any large school
• 22:36
  in the United States, hit small schools.
• 22:38
  As a matter of fact, I looked at the six books that are used here
• 22:41
  at Embry-Riddle University. They're great, one of the
• 22:44
  evolution of one of the ecology. Books are has one of the best
• 22:48
  chapters on Evolution. I've ever seen.
• 22:50
  Look. Anyway, this is fly.
• 22:53
  You had to use and if you think about it, s all the facts in
• 22:58
  there have to be able to stand scientific scrutiny.
• 23:00
  Somebody it's looking at these babies, you know, well, here's
• 23:05
  what you find out there is not a school in the United States.
• 23:10
  That does scientific research, that accepts creationism, not
• 23:15
  one major college or university in the United States.
• 23:20
  Depts creationism or intelligent design.
• 23:24
  Matter of fact, we see it a different way I really checked.
• 23:27
  I mean, I really looked and I couldn't find a major college or
• 23:31
  university in the world that accepted creation or intelligent
• 23:36
  design. Now teacher, I gotta find out
• 23:41
  about this stuff. So where do these guys get their
• 23:44
  ideas. So I ordered some Bob Jones
• 23:47
  textbooks. This is a Bob Jones life science
• 23:50
  book. They use it in the eighth grade.
• 23:53
  It has 500 pages in it. It has 250 references to
• 23:57
  Biblical verses to explain science.
• 24:00
  It has not one, not one reference to a scientific
• 24:05
  journal or book. It uses the Term God, 380 times
• 24:10
  Satan. Three times and Hell twice.
• 24:16
  Here's the Biology book, that module and push up for high
• 24:18
  school students. It has six hundred ninety two
• 24:22
  pages 350 references to Biblical verses to prove science not one
• 24:29
  reference to any scientific journal or scientific book it
• 24:33
  mentions God 600 times in Satan 40 times.
• 24:40
  This book has put her right here in Florida.
• 24:43
  You know what to Creation? Because the says Soul biology
• 24:45
  gods live in creation. Secretion booked this company
• 24:49
  claims that they are the largest textbook Publishers Forest
• 24:53
  creation of schools in the United States.
• 24:55
  Now, remember, we're talking creation of schools.
• 24:58
  These things would never be allowed in a public school
• 25:00
  because their religious. This book has 650 pages in it.
• 25:05
  150 references to the Bible. No science references at all to
• 25:09
  any book, any article, anything if mentions God 425 times.
• 25:18
  Well. I'd like to ask a question, you
• 25:23
  know, when I come before a group like this and I, I want to show
• 25:27
  you that I've tried to keep up with things.
• 25:30
  I mean, I read the Scientific American and I trust the
• 25:32
  Scientific American. I get a book especially put out
• 25:36
  for teachers, call the national Center for Science, Education.
• 25:39
  You know, it has a lot of involvement about Evolution and
• 25:42
  creation. I trust that book.
• 25:44
  I go to the bookstore and get and get Discovery.
• 25:47
  I trust that too and I trust the nasty Geographic, they've been
• 25:50
  at it, a hundred years, they know how old the Earth is, so
• 25:54
  I'm looking out at this audience, you look like a really
• 25:56
  great group, lots of college students, lots lots of
• 25:59
  creationist in here. I like to know where I stand
• 26:01
  before I go any further. well, many of you folks would like to
• 26:07
  see Embry-Riddle University, be the first University in the
• 26:13
  world to accept creation and intelligent design in their
• 26:20
  science department, can I show of hands Thank you very much.
• 26:28
  That's exactly what I expected. Yeah, okay.
• 26:33
  Now I want to, I'm often asked, well, how do you handle stuff
• 26:42
  with the students as far as that the evidence is collected?
• 26:47
  Well, let me just give you a list of things here that are
• 26:52
  pieces. Of equipment that scientists use
• 26:55
  to study Evolution computers alter song, poor boring.
• 27:00
  Soon. Our lasers deep sea vessels
• 27:04
  chromatography electron, microscopes DNA sequencing,
• 27:07
  ultraviolet light radioactive, dating television,
• 27:10
  electrophoresis X-rays of robotic, spectroscopes
• 27:13
  photography, and Geiger counters.
• 27:15
  Those pieces of equipment are used in chemistry physics,
• 27:20
  geology and evolution. So we get the same results they
• 27:25
  do. There are people in here that I
• 27:29
  imagine would not want a crime to be solved because you
• 27:34
  wouldn't believe the evidence was collected by using these
• 27:38
  methods. These are the methods that
• 27:41
  Evolution users Professors, you'll have an additional five
• 27:54
  minutes to rebuttal dr. Havens opening statement.
• 27:59
  And to pose question or a question to him, I am curious
• 28:10
  about your presentation which was yeah, I'm impressed.
• 28:14
  Only one, I've heard speak that quickly was a Texas Auctioneer,
• 28:18
  but I tried really hard to concentrate and get it all.
• 28:23
  The Earth was created 6,000 years ago in six days by God.
• 28:29
  I am confused being philosophically consistent and
• 28:31
  being very honest person. I'm sure you can tell me where
• 28:34
  God came from, And in addition, in addition, once you've told me
• 28:40
  where God comes from, please try to clarify how you can figure
• 28:46
  that a spiritual force can have an impact on a material Universe
• 28:51
  to create it. I think the some years ago we
• 28:55
  already talked about that kind of thing and philosophical
• 28:58
  circles at any rate, by posing the question, if angels are made
• 29:03
  of spiritual matter, And pin is made of material matter, and
• 29:09
  spiritual matter displaces, no space.
• 29:12
  How many angels can dance on the tip of a pen?
• 29:18
  I have a sense of sort of reversal experience here, but
• 29:25
  but please do. Go ahead.
• 29:27
  You got five minutes now. I just want to wish question.
• 29:30
  All right, you may take the first element because you one
• 29:32
  question at a time. Which one would you like?
• 29:35
  That was part of the format for the debate, so which, which I
• 29:37
  want you to fill in the story of the rest of the beginning of the
• 29:40
  universe, God spiritual matter, impact on material market.
• 29:45
  So two questions. All right, go ahead.
• 29:49
  All right, your question, where did God come from assumes that
• 29:52
  you're thinking of the raw? Obviously a displays that you're
• 29:54
  thinking of the wrong God because the god of the Bible is
• 29:58
  not affected by time space or matter.
• 30:00
  If he's if he's affected by time space or matter, he's not God,
• 30:04
  time space and Matter is what we call a Continuum.
• 30:06
  All of them have to come into existence at the same instant
• 30:09
  because if there were matter but no space where would you put it
• 30:13
  if there were matter in space but no time.
• 30:15
  When would you put it? You cannot have time space or
• 30:18
  matter independently. They have to come into existence
• 30:20
  simultaneously. The Bible answer is that in 10
• 30:23
  words in the beginning there's time.
• 30:26
  God created the Heaven, her space and the Earth there's
• 30:30
  matter. So you have time space matter
• 30:32
  created a trinity of Trinity's they're just it's you know time
• 30:34
  has passed Future space has length width, height matter has
• 30:37
  solid liquid gas. You have a trinity of Trinity's
• 30:39
  created instantaneously and the God who created them has to be
• 30:43
  outside of them if he's limited by time, he's not God, the guy
• 30:47
  who created this computer is not in the computer, he's not
• 30:50
  running around in there. Changing the numbers on the
• 30:51
  screen. Okay, the God, who created this
• 30:53
  universe is outside of the universe, he's above and beyond
• 30:56
  it, in it through it. He's unaffected by it.
• 30:59
  So for and the idea, the concept that he of a spiritual Force
• 31:03
  cannot Having effect on a material body.
• 31:06
  Well then I guess you'd have to explain to me.
• 31:08
  Things like emotions and love and hatred and envy and
• 31:11
  jealousy. And rationality, I mean if your
• 31:14
  brain is just a random collection of chemicals that
• 31:16
  formed by chance over billions of years.
• 31:18
  How on Earth can you trust your own reasoning processes and the
• 31:20
  thoughts that you could think? Okay, so your your question,
• 31:28
  where did God come from? Is assuming a limited God.
• 31:32
  And that's your problem. The God that I worship is not
• 31:34
  Limited by time space or matter. If I could fit the infinite God
• 31:38
  in my 3-pound brain, he would not be worth worshiping that's
• 31:40
  for certain so that's the God that I worship.
• 31:42
  Thank you. Would you please present a
• 31:53
  question to the other side? I was curious about the
• 31:58
  previous. Presentation.
• 32:02
  He said he trusted National Geographic just give you one
• 32:04
  example. Okay.
• 32:07
  The Bible teaches clearly that the birds were made on the fifth
• 32:10
  day and the reptiles are made on the sixth day.
• 32:13
  Okay Evolution teaches exactly the opposite reptiles first and
• 32:17
  then Birds the Bible says Birds first.
• 32:19
  Then reptiles actually everything about the evolution.
• 32:21
  Theory is backwards, what the Bible teaches.
• 32:23
  Somebody's clearly wrong on this.
• 32:25
  This guy says dinosaurs are alive as Birds scientist says,
• 32:28
  okay, well this is absurd obviously.
• 32:30
  Nobody's Ever seen any animal produce a different kind of
• 32:33
  animal, they can believe that if they want, here's a USA Today.
• 32:36
  Missing Link discovered October 1999 National Geographic.
• 32:40
  One, that he trusts Missing Link breaking news, folks, we have
• 32:43
  found National Geographic November 1999.
• 32:46
  The Missing Link few months later.
• 32:48
  Oops, it was a mistake. Some Chinese guy had taken a
• 32:51
  couple of fossils and glue them together and fooled, everybody
• 32:54
  National Geographic paid, I think 80 thousand dollars for
• 32:58
  that fossil. It was incredible.
• 33:00
  The amount of money they paid for that and there's all kinds
• 33:02
  of it. I would say over and over where
• 33:03
  National Geographic is not trustworthy.
• 33:06
  The entire argument that I heard a few minutes ago was majority
• 33:10
  opinion supports evolution. Okay, first place.
• 33:14
  I don't think that's true. Okay.
• 33:15
  How many of you here tonight at a secular University?
• 33:18
  Do not believe the evolution theory that they present.
• 33:23
  Okay. How many do believe the
• 33:24
  evolution theory that they present?
• 33:26
  Okay, we could take a count here.
• 33:28
  I suspect that was majority for the creation side.
• 33:31
  We can count if you like. But I know this about nine
• 33:33
  percent of the population in Gallup polls and surveys taken
• 33:36
  says, they believe in a theistic Evolution, know God is involved.
• 33:40
  90 percent? Say yes there was a god involved
• 33:42
  in fifty percent of the entire population.
• 33:44
  Says God did it in the last 10,000 years.
• 33:46
  So if using majority opinion as your argument, I think that's
• 33:50
  obviously historically you can prove that's pretty easy.
• 33:53
  To prove wrong majority opinion, proves nothing majority has
• 33:55
  often been wrong. So, all of the experts on birds
• 33:58
  are saying, the dinosaurs could not possibly have turned to
• 34:01
  birds. There are just millions and
• 34:02
  millions of differences. So I guess I'd be curious with
• 34:04
  all the evidence that we've gathered over the years, why you
• 34:07
  would think a dinosaur turned into a bird when dinosaurs
• 34:10
  reptiles produce reptiles birds produce birds.
• 34:13
  I mean, there's no evidence of this.
• 34:14
  So, my question. Why do you think dinosaurs into
• 34:16
  Birds? If you think that Evolution is a
• 34:23
  process where all kinds of DNA and all kinds.
• 34:26
  Of animals are making changes, some of that changes in DNA are
• 34:31
  going to turn out to be pretty good.
• 34:32
  Some of the Mark, if we take a look at an example of from your
• 34:39
  research, saying that, how about how about Noah's Ark have one?
• 34:48
  Kind of animal. That evolved into dogs, foxes
• 34:55
  and wolves in 6,000 years. Not possible at all.
• 35:01
  Not could even begin to happen in six thousand years Noah's.
• 35:05
  Ark, one kind of horse developing into a zebra and a
• 35:10
  donkey, not possible. No, there's no way that DNA can
• 35:14
  change that fast. What evolutionists are saying is
• 35:18
  the DNA, the process of DNA changing takes a Long time, you
• 35:22
  see the creationist want it both ways.
• 35:24
  They want to make fun of evolution and saying, well I,
• 35:27
  why does that thing we want to do that?
• 35:28
  Well, it doesn't want to do it. DNA is changing randomly, but at
• 35:33
  the same time, they want to see that.
• 35:35
  You can have all kinds of animals evolve in 6,000 years.
• 35:39
  There's hop off of a ship someplace that noise running,
• 35:42
  it's impossible. There's absolutely no way that
• 35:46
  that amount of DNA could change in six thousand years.
• 35:50
  The only way you can solve That as we're saying the usual way
• 35:53
  that must have been America well in science.
• 35:56
  We don't talk about miracles. We talked about evidence and
• 36:00
  that's what's important to us and I kind of resent.
• 36:04
  Dr. Ho Vine telling us, this is what we believe in.
• 36:08
  This is what I predict. My prediction is my prediction
• 36:11
  is is that Evolution has been going on for a long time and
• 36:14
  will continue to go on and we'll go on to the same way as always
• 36:18
  developed, DNA will change. Bit by bit little by little and
• 36:23
  plants and animals will change. I have a couple of creationist
• 36:29
  magazines at home, tell that pulled me in the creation is
• 36:33
  magazine. That the reason that we have
• 36:35
  thorns on blackberries and Roses in the reason we have a
• 36:39
  toothache is because Adam and Eve Fell From Grace when they
• 36:43
  sinned. I have a hard time accepting
• 36:46
  that as scientific evidence I would rather use as my
• 36:49
  scientific evidence tracing the Origin of thorns and, and organs
• 36:56
  of teeth back to their beginning rather than or decline, right?
• 37:00
  Relying on the fact that Adam and Eve sinned and that brought
• 37:03
  disaster din to the world. Penta Professors.
• 37:09
  Would you like to formulate a question or another statement?
• 37:12
  You do have two minutes more time.
• 37:15
  Do you have more time you will? And after 5 minutes, how many
• 37:20
  after mr. Hogan goes, we can understand.
• 37:25
  I'm sorry, you'll have five more minutes after mr.
• 37:28
  Hogan has his time. What were the two minutes that
• 37:29
  you said that? He had time right now around the
• 37:32
  board? One minute and 47 seconds.
• 37:35
  And we just talked about it and who has that time right now?
• 37:38
  You do anything? Yes, sir.
• 37:40
  Okay, just trying to get to I'm sorry demonstrate.
• 37:43
  Thank you II. Do.
• 37:45
  I wonder about my earlier question.
• 37:47
  I don't feel comfortable about its being answered.
• 37:49
  That is you keep insisting that the god of the Bible?
• 37:52
  And some way is responsible for all this, you may even if you
• 37:55
  were to prove that there's some kind of spiritual force, it is
• 37:58
  not necessarily the god of the Bible.
• 38:00
  So you're taking a giant leap there.
• 38:02
  So I think there's a lot of that has to do with lots of faith
• 38:05
  that has to be developed in there.
• 38:06
  And I see that from our group here and I think Mark Twain said
• 38:09
  about faith that faith is believing something.
• 38:13
  You know, ain't true. That's that's I don't think you
• 38:17
  can rely on face. I do, I think you need to, if
• 38:20
  you want, to be honest, intellectually, honest you've
• 38:23
  got to come up with something a little bit more solid than just
• 38:26
  to buy in to the fact that 80% of u.s.
• 38:29
  Americans. I God Believers and only 14% are
• 38:33
  not so I know, I don't know. Is that can he answer that or
• 38:39
  absolutely. All right, that'd be nice.
• 38:42
  What was the question phrase? The question again please.
• 38:45
  You didn't really get you made a statement, I didn't get her a
• 38:46
  questionnaire. What do you want to hear?
• 38:49
  Okay. My original question was for you
• 38:51
  to show where the deity comes from and you keep insisting that
• 38:59
  it is the god of the Bible, but that is another leap of faith.
• 39:04
  That seems to be part of that. Can you sort of talk that out a
• 39:07
  little bit more? And let me say.
• 39:12
  One thing also about the story that you gave If about the
• 39:16
  National Geographic, the or was it the Scientific American with
• 39:21
  the bird and a dinosaur thing, it shows that the scientific
• 39:28
  Community is working, these people are in dialogue error,
• 39:32
  may occur, were reason is left free to correct it and in your
• 39:36
  system, it's nailed down by the Bible.
• 39:39
  And no, I cannot challenge that with the invention of all kinds
• 39:44
  of Change beings. I just looked this is very much
• 39:47
  news to me. I looked at one of the books
• 39:49
  that Jim has here where the assertion is that evolution is
• 39:53
  inspired by Satan and what now we have thank you sir.
• 39:56
  We're going to be back in five minutes Ariane, I guess I'm
• 40:02
  still a little baffled. What the question was, if your
• 40:06
  question if you going back to you didn't like my answer of how
• 40:09
  God did it, God was just God is outside of time space and
• 40:13
  matter, I think you need to stop.
• 40:15
  And look at the theory that you are believing in apparently
• 40:18
  because there are so many thousands of unanswered
• 40:20
  questions. See it's much easier for me to
• 40:23
  believe in the beginning. God then to believe believe in
• 40:26
  the beginning dirt or matter, the evolutionist does not answer
• 40:31
  the questions. There are six different types of
• 40:33
  evolution as I shared clearly earlier.
• 40:36
  If the Big Bang Theory is true, then I would like to know what
• 40:39
  exploded and where did it come from?
• 40:41
  And where did the energy come from?
• 40:42
  And where did the space come from for the mattress?
• 40:45
  Expand into and where did the organization come from?
• 40:48
  And where did the information come from?
• 40:50
  There's a whole host of questions that are whole lot
• 40:51
  harder for you to answer then in the beginning God where is it?
• 40:55
  Where is information come from man?
• 40:57
  Is this universe is not just random molecule circulating
• 41:00
  around. I mean it carries information
• 41:02
  just like a book is so much more than ink on a paper.
• 41:06
  It carries information and the DNA is more than just chemicals,
• 41:11
  it's information. So the evolutionist never
• 41:14
  answers the Where did this information come from?
• 41:16
  Where did the energy come from? Where did the matter itself come
• 41:19
  from? And you gripe about mice, Billy,
• 41:22
  I believe by faith in the beginning, God, I know.
• 41:24
  I admit, I don't understand that, but you believe hundreds
• 41:27
  of things by faith. You don't even understand that
• 41:29
  you're believing by faith. You think matter is either
• 41:31
  Eternal or can create itself. What's the two choices?
• 41:35
  How did matter get here? The world is here.
• 41:37
  How, where did the matter come from?
• 41:39
  Did it just happen by itself? Or is it all just imaginary?
• 41:42
  We're not really here at all you're faced with the option.
• 41:45
  We're not really here. This is all just our imagination
• 41:47
  or it had a beginning or matter is eternal, which is in both
• 41:52
  both of the second. Two options are in violation of
• 41:54
  the obvious laws of thermodynamics matter, doesn't
• 41:57
  create itself and everything degrades over time.
• 42:01
  So either it had a beginning or it didn't, if it had a beginning
• 42:05
  then what was before the beginning?
• 42:06
  I mean there's so many thousands of things you take by faith.
• 42:08
  You say, I say in the beginning God and you say well this matter
• 42:12
  somehow either was always here or created itself And then this
• 42:15
  matter somehow became alive and then this first living thing
• 42:20
  learned how to reproduce and then learn how to make something
• 42:23
  other than its kind. I mean, even though nobody's
• 42:25
  ever seen that nobody's ever seen a dog produce a non dog, or
• 42:29
  you mentioned about, you know, the dog fact that a wolf and a
• 42:33
  fox and a dog coming from a common ancestor, and off Noah's
• 42:36
  Ark and only' 4,400 years. For Heaven's Sake.
• 42:38
  You believe they came from a rock.
• 42:41
  I mean, come on. I don't think my theory is that
• 42:44
  silly at all. So it my answer to your question
• 42:48
  is still the same. I believe in the beginning God I
• 42:50
  do take that by faith. Here's the major difference.
• 42:52
  Major difference that I don't think you're going to
• 42:54
  understand. I admit mine is a religion.
• 42:59
  They do not admit, there's is a religion.
• 43:02
  They want you to think what they believe is science and all of
• 43:06
  you should pay for their religion to be taught in this
• 43:09
  University. And that's the situation we have
• 43:11
  today and that's unfortunate. They've always been situations
• 43:14
  where the majority taught something.
• 43:15
  I mean in the Soviet Union, 15 years ago, if you stood up and
• 43:17
  said, hey kids, I don't believe in communism.
• 43:19
  I think capitalism is a better system, he would be in Siberia
• 43:23
  if you survived and here. In Emory University, if you
• 43:26
  stood up in your classroom and said, I don't believe this
• 43:28
  evolution. Theory is true.
• 43:30
  I think it's pretty obvious. I must have been a designer to
• 43:32
  this system. You would be an intellectual
• 43:34
  Siberia you would lose your job. It has happened to hundreds of
• 43:38
  teachers just simply for standing up and say, look, I
• 43:40
  think the evidence is here. Folks, there must have been a
• 43:42
  designer if I asked you to explain how computers came to
• 43:45
  be, but you cannot use man as your answer.
• 43:50
  I only want a purely naturalistic explanation for the
• 43:53
  origin of computers. Purely naturalistic the answer
• 43:56
  has to lie within the computer. How did these molecules get
• 44:00
  together? How did this data get together?
• 44:01
  How do these plastic molecules come together and the different?
• 44:04
  Silicone chips. How did it happen?
• 44:06
  Your answer has to lie in the computer.
• 44:08
  I've already eliminated. The only obvious answer to the
• 44:11
  problem at the beginning by my definition, they're trying to
• 44:14
  eliminate. The only answer to the only
• 44:16
  logical answer to the question by their definition of science.
• 44:19
  They want to In science as things that we can observe and
• 44:22
  test and demonstrate the natural world.
• 44:23
  Okay? Well then that eliminates both
• 44:25
  Evolution and creation, both our unobserved, we don't see
• 44:28
  anything change. We don't see anything created
• 44:30
  from nothing. Here's the problem.
• 44:31
  Both creation and evolution are religious.
• 44:34
  I admit minds of religion. They don't admit there's as a
• 44:36
  religion and all of us are paying for their religion to be
• 44:38
  taught in the school system and I for one resent that.
• 44:42
  So, my answer is still the same. God did it?
• 44:54
  Your question for them quickly, please.
• 44:56
  Okay, my question for them. I have several thousand
• 45:00
  questions. I guess I'd like to ask.
• 45:03
  Does your textbook you're holding in front of you that you
• 45:05
  said you trust here at used at this University does the your
• 45:09
  textbook teach that there are vestigial structures if you can
• 45:12
  maybe just look in the index under the word vestigial.
• 45:14
  How dramatic negative Five minutes or just ask question.
• 45:17
  Yeah just a question. You already had your 50 k.
• 45:19
  Does your textbook teach that the appendix is a vestigial and
• 45:22
  is no longer needed even though all doctors know the appendix is
• 45:25
  not vestigial, it has been proven to be part of the immune
• 45:28
  system. If your appendix is taken out,
• 45:30
  you can live just like you can live without both your arms and
• 45:32
  both your eyes. It doesn't prove you don't need
• 45:33
  it. So just asked a simple question,
• 45:35
  does your textbook teach the kids that there are vestigial
• 45:38
  structures? And that is there for evidence
• 45:39
  for evolution? I think have been one of your
• 45:41
  posters here, if I'm not mistaken.
• 45:42
  Yes, it does. Teach us those vestigial
• 45:44
  structures Perhaps it was the god, though.
• 45:55
  He had five minutes, I don't get the point.
• 45:59
  That's the way, that's the way DNA works.
• 46:02
  There are, there are certain changes in the DNA molecules
• 46:06
  that will make some organs more efficient and some less
• 46:09
  efficient. That's just the way it is.
• 46:12
  You can find the vestibule structures on Plants.
• 46:14
  Also we have you and I have no control over what goes on in the
• 46:20
  DNA. In our body, we just pass it on
• 46:23
  to our Offspring but too. To say that to make one example
• 46:27
  like that and say that it's going to get rid of.
• 46:29
  If the theory of evolution is ridiculous, we've got all these
• 46:32
  other proofs that about Evolution vestigial, structures
• 46:35
  are just one, tiny part of that. Okay, let me, let me ask you,
• 46:43
  let me see another thing I know where God came from, man made
• 46:48
  him. I also know your computer came
• 46:57
  from, you know, from science. It was put together by people
• 47:01
  that understood physics and chemistry was put together by
• 47:05
  people that are certain molecules, and atoms was put
• 47:08
  together by people with intelligence people.
• 47:10
  Knew how to love and hate and carry on biological
• 47:15
  relationships because they have intelligence.
• 47:18
  We got intelligence because we have brains, We've Got Brains
• 47:21
  because we've got DNA. It doesn't make any sense at all
• 47:24
  to say that or the people who don't have religion, don't have
• 47:29
  feelings, don't follow the law. The constitution of our country
• 47:34
  does not mention God or religion.
• 47:36
  It's a, we are a nation of laws. We're a nation of laws.
• 47:40
  Because we're a nation of people that have intelligence.
• 47:43
  That's the way it is. That's the way animals, operate,
• 47:47
  some animals. Evolved a different way that
• 47:49
  you've also they could fly or they could crawl or they could
• 47:53
  run and what was successful for them work out for them was
• 47:57
  successful for us is that we have a good brain and it's and
• 48:03
  we'll have to wait and see what happens not in our lifetimes,
• 48:06
  but all animals are in the same boat all plants.
• 48:10
  The same boat. Sometimes when people were doing
• 48:13
  this kind of stuff, people are always thinking about human
• 48:16
  beings. You can finally evolutionary
• 48:18
  theory in any any part of life. It doesn't matter.
• 48:22
  If you're talking about maple trees, I still want an answer to
• 48:26
  the question of how did all these different things evolve in
• 48:31
  just six thousand years when it isn't possible?
• 48:34
  It's mathematically not possible.
• 48:37
  If it were by now Farm. Whirs would have bread a
• 48:41
  different species when he says something.
• 48:44
  Like, well, your feed dogs, always get dogs, who, of course
• 48:46
  you do, because you can't change them as 6,000 years.
• 48:50
  If you could farmers, would have bread something different.
• 48:53
  We've been breeding in plants and animals.
• 48:55
  For 4,000 years. We can't do it simply because it
• 48:59
  takes too long. The Earth is old enough for
• 49:02
  evolution to have taken place, but we haven't had enough time
• 49:07
  to get different kinds of animals starting from Noah's
• 49:10
  Ark. I know you all system.
• 49:15
  We have minute again. Yeah, we got you don't have it.
• 49:17
  Oh my God. Yeah, I do.
• 49:21
  One thing that sort of cross my mind as you were speaking is the
• 49:24
  difference between science and religion and it seems to me,
• 49:28
  there is a very clear cut difference.
• 49:30
  Science is a self-correcting in the sense that the Battle of
• 49:36
  disagreement will edit out that which is wrong.
• 49:40
  Ang and by essentially falsifiability, that is no other
• 49:45
  words. If scientist Advance the
• 49:49
  particular idea, he also can tell what particular conditions
• 49:54
  must be, the case form to retract that idea and this is
• 49:58
  something that is absent in religion.
• 49:59
  That is a religion is seeking truth, absolute truth and
• 50:04
  charges science with not finding truth which it isn't trying
• 50:09
  science. Works with probability and with
• 50:13
  self-correction religion. Ultimately, I know I am, right?
• 50:18
  And I'm not allowing anything else.
• 50:21
  This is what is so devastating to try to talk to anybody, who
• 50:24
  is a personal faith, you can't get anywhere, because a weasel
• 50:28
  out, just about anything, you try to to offer by inventing new
• 50:32
  and new and different interpretations and new passages
• 50:36
  of the Bible and what not and everybody else of course is
• 50:39
  wrong except the one I was looking at it that kind of
• 50:43
  system, I think cannot be possibly science.
• 50:48
  Well, he said, science is self-correcting, I agree, I
• 50:50
  happen to like science quite a bit but see the creation view
• 50:53
  doesn't have to be constantly corrected because it's right.
• 50:56
  Okay. And you I like the answer that
• 51:02
  one gentleman gay. If he said, obviously the
• 51:04
  computer is here because of man, because of intelligence, I mean
• 51:07
  obviously there's took a designer Well duh, so did the
• 51:13
  universe so did the single cell in your body?
• 51:16
  So did every living creature? I mean you can't explain the
• 51:19
  computer inside the computer, can you?
• 51:22
  And you can't explain the creation inside the creation,
• 51:25
  there has to be something above and intelligent designer.
• 51:29
  And you talk about devastating to talk to a person of Faith.
• 51:33
  What you said a few sentences earlier was or what the other
• 51:36
  gentleman said was. Of course, we don't see changes
• 51:39
  Farmers have been raised in. dogs for, you know, 4000 years
• 51:42
  and we don't see changes because It takes too long.
• 51:48
  If you don't see faith in there I can't help you.
• 51:51
  Okay. You are relying on the Unseen
• 51:54
  the whole. Yes, long ago and far away.
• 51:59
  Evolution is got to be the biggest fairy tale for adults
• 52:02
  ever. Created everything you said
• 52:04
  required Faith. Well, we see dogs produced dogs,
• 52:08
  but if you give them billions of years, okay?
• 52:11
  You just left science and went to religion and didn't even see
• 52:14
  it. You didn't even see what
• 52:15
  happened in your mind and one of you There's a course on logic.
• 52:18
  I mean, if this was a student of yours doing this should give him
• 52:20
  an f and yet your fellow professors.
• 52:22
  Believe it. And you get to think it's great.
• 52:24
  They jump from Faith to science back and forth all the time.
• 52:28
  What we see dogs produced dog's body.
• 52:29
  If we had enough time to stop, stop stop, you're leaving
• 52:32
  science. Right, that moment.
• 52:34
  So, if I got three minutes, let me just cover a couple things
• 52:37
  that I resent being in the textbooks and I would like to
• 52:39
  hear if this is in your textbook.
• 52:41
  My question is, is this in your textbook?
• 52:43
  And after I show you the evidence, I want to know why,
• 52:46
  okay? This textbook says many
• 52:47
  Organizers retain traces of their evolutionary history.
• 52:50
  For example, the whale retains pelvic and leg bones as useless
• 52:53
  vestiges earlier. It was mentioned.
• 52:56
  One of the evidences for evolution is Festival.
• 52:58
  Organs, Andrew Carnegie Left Behind millions of dollars to
• 53:01
  start an organization called the national Center for Science,
• 53:04
  Education of which you are a part, okay?
• 53:06
  The national Center for Science Education, I was in Berkeley
• 53:08
  last week 147, professors, at Berkeley, refuse to debate me.
• 53:13
  Jenny Scott, won't debate me for any amount of money on the
• 53:15
  planet. Here's Jeanne Scott, right here.
• 53:17
  I'll Out at my expense and take them all on.
• 53:19
  This is welcome to the homepage of national Center for Science,
• 53:22
  Education a tax-exempt, nonprofit membership
• 53:26
  organization, working to defend the teaching of evolution
• 53:28
  against sectarian attack. We are nationally recognized
• 53:31
  Clearinghouse for information and advice to keep evolution in
• 53:34
  the classroom and scientific creationism out.
• 53:37
  The national Center for Science Education is little bitty
• 53:39
  storefront building and berserk Lee California.
• 53:41
  I was there four days ago and it got five people working in this
• 53:44
  little building. And they say they teach that
• 53:47
  maybe the How evolved into the whale?
• 53:49
  That's what their literature teaches.
• 53:51
  This textbook says the whale has a pelvis and a leg bone whales.
• 53:54
  Have hind limb bones that have no function.
• 53:56
  Just imagine Wales walking around.
• 53:58
  It's true. These are the bones are talking
• 53:59
  about right there. Just imagine the whale walking
• 54:03
  around. I'm sorry, I tried and I can't.
• 54:06
  Okay. They said the whales pelvis has
• 54:08
  no apparent function. The whales pelvis is evidence of
• 54:11
  its Evolution from four-legged land dwelling.
• 54:13
  Mammals this is simply a lie. Okay, those little bones are
• 54:17
  anchor. It's that special muscles
• 54:18
  attached to that allow the whales to reproduce.
• 54:21
  This has nothing to do with whales walking on land.
• 54:24
  It has to do with making baby wails.
• 54:27
  So either the authors of this textbook are ignorant about
• 54:29
  whale anatomy and certainly shouldn't be talking about it or
• 54:32
  they're deliberately lying to you and desperate for evidence
• 54:35
  for their Theory. So my question is very simple.
• 54:37
  Does your textbook teach the whale has a Vestige of pelvis.
• 54:40
  If so, why would you use a Biology book in your biology
• 54:43
  class at a famous university like this based on an author
• 54:46
  that doesn't even? And his basic anatomy of Wales
• 54:49
  and he's either lying to the students or he's ignorant.
• 54:51
  Why would you use something like that and how could a vestigial
• 54:53
  structure be evidence for evolution?
• 54:55
  Well, that's an example of losing not gaining.
• 54:59
  It doesn't say how the whale got the legs.
• 55:00
  Do it slowly. Losing it won first place.
• 55:02
  It's not slowly losing. I'm okay, it's a lie.
• 55:04
  Secondly, even if it was, that's the opposite of evolution.
• 55:08
  How on Earth can this be evidence for a theory?
• 55:10
  Yes, boys and girls were solely losing things.
• 55:12
  That's how we got it all. Well, duh.
• 55:16
  So My question is, simple. Does your book teach there are
• 55:20
  vestigial structures specifically, the whale having a
• 55:22
  vestigial pelvis, if it does. Why would use a book like that
• 55:25
  in a university like this? Excuse me, sir.
• 55:31
  Just a quick reminder. We I'll turn your mic on just a
• 55:36
  second. We're going to go to an
• 55:40
  intermission in one more iteration so yes.
• 55:45
  Absolutely your table, your table.
• 55:47
  We're going to go to intermission after that.
• 55:49
  The book does not teach the way it has a vested your pelvis.
• 55:52
  That's one of the most ignorant statements that ever heard of
• 55:55
  the pelvis is an absolute necessary thing for the whale.
• 55:58
  We catches all of his muscles to it's one of the major things
• 56:01
  that helps them swim. I happen to be keeping up with
• 56:05
  what's going on with the evolution of the whale and we
• 56:08
  have a very Very good set of bongs saved from fossil records
• 56:16
  showing that the whales evolved through a long period of time
• 56:21
  from animals around land to animals are in the water.
• 56:25
  We have that evidence and for to say, we don't have it or to see
• 56:29
  that were lying is disingenuous to this audience.
• 56:33
  I ask, you don't believe, don't believe me.
• 56:37
  Let me, let me get off something to Right up there.
• 56:41
  Here's the things we try to do in science.
• 56:43
  We say let's not believe. Revelations did somebody just
• 56:47
  said? I know because I know, I know
• 56:49
  that's not good enough. Believe Authority.
• 56:52
  No, let's not believe Authority. Let's not believe any of us up
• 56:55
  your table. You folks can get the copy of
• 57:00
  this book or this thing here and get the facts.
• 57:05
  You don't have to believe me. You don't have to believe him.
• 57:08
  You can find out for yourself. You don't have to trust the
• 57:10
  authorities, even me. The second thing is tradition.
• 57:14
  You don't have to trust tradition.
• 57:16
  I mean, with the I mean, come on there's traditional different
• 57:18
  Traditions all over the world but we can't Rust science
• 57:21
  because science should be the same all over the world.
• 57:24
  When I'm trying to say to you is when I teach my classes,
• 57:28
  evidence is what's important. I have no evidence that God
• 57:32
  exists. I have no evidence that there
• 57:34
  was a Noah's Ark. I have no evidence that there
• 57:37
  was an Adam and Eve. I have evidence that whales
• 57:40
  evolved from animals that live on land and I can prove it.
• 57:50
  Well we we do have, I haven't had anything to say, there's a
• 57:55
  lot of talking going on and that's unusual for me.
• 58:00
  But the one thing that we can prove by the great philosophical
• 58:08
  statement, cogito Ergo assume in Latin which says I think
• 58:13
  therefore I am now what that says As is that I exist in prove
• 58:19
  that I am there because I can think, but it doesn't
• 58:23
  necessarily say that you exist. I can't prove that you exist,
• 58:27
  but I can prove that I exist. And I also know that I'm here
• 58:35
  and I'm, and I do believe in you.
• 58:37
  There's a high probability that I do believe in you and you are
• 58:40
  here and somehow you got here and somehow this happened. he's
• 58:46
  probably in the last time between 10 and 20 billion years
• 58:50
  ago, probably to the record of the earth which was maybe four
• 58:55
  to six billion years ago and basically all of this biological
• 59:02
  stuff is very interesting and it does Proved how science brings
• 59:08
  about to cause things to happen. But it's so complicated and it's
• 59:13
  okay. So complicated that that it you
• 59:21
  can. You can confuse the process.
• 59:24
  By misinterpreting the results we do have as my colleagues,
• 59:29
  say, the scientific method and it based on the best
• 59:35
  information. Nation that we can put together
• 59:38
  to form. Do what we know is true.
• 59:42
  It doesn't mean that we know the truth.
• 59:45
  It means we have maybe some probability of the truth and
• 59:47
  that may be the best that we will always have.
• 59:51
  But two Stock about start talking about chickens and
• 59:57
  dinosaurs and I like eating chickens because chickens are
• 1:00:00
  descendants of dinosaurs. In every time I eat a chicken,
• 1:00:04
  it makes me happy because I think a lot of them ate our
• 1:00:09
  ancestors, a long time before that about 160 million years
• 1:00:13
  ago. So, I'm going to I'm going to
• 1:00:22
  leave with my colleagues and with the fact that we are exist,
• 1:00:27
  we do think and we are here and how the record got is to how got
• 1:00:33
  to be here. Could be debated.
• 1:00:38
  We do have information. We probably miss more
• 1:00:42
  information than we then we know but I will say this This that
• 1:00:47
  we've got to be very careful is to how we interpret the record.
• 1:00:53
  What we're trying to talk about something.
• 1:00:55
  Because we are, we are subject to ourselves to to sink into
• 1:01:03
  confusion and to basically involve yourself into what
• 1:01:11
  becomes Voodoo science and that is very, very dangerous.
• 1:01:26
  Okay, let me cover five main points here.
• 1:01:29
  He said, we have evidence of Wales, evolving from land
• 1:01:33
  animals in the first place. This is absolutely incorrect.
• 1:01:37
  Okay, if he's talking about ambulocetus, you need to study
• 1:01:40
  here. This was made mostly of
• 1:01:41
  imagination. If that's your evidence, you
• 1:01:44
  need to study the ambulocetus a little better.
• 1:01:46
  Okay, there is overwhelming evidence that ambulocetus is
• 1:01:49
  just an unusual animal or just an animal that may be still
• 1:01:52
  existing someplace. There were just a few bones
• 1:01:54
  found and a whole lot of plaster of Paris and Imagination used to
• 1:01:57
  put it together. Basilosaurus is not an
• 1:02:00
  intermediate, the serpentine form of the body and peculiar
• 1:02:03
  serrated cheek teeth. Made it plain that these animals
• 1:02:07
  could not possibly have been ancestral to any modern whales.
• 1:02:11
  This is from one of the experts on vertebrate history here.
• 1:02:14
  The evolutionary history origin of Is remains controversial,
• 1:02:17
  among zoologist, Compton's, encyclopedia couple years ago,
• 1:02:20
  pakicetus pictured here is made from one small, piece of a
• 1:02:23
  skull, a few piece of jaw, a small piece of jaw and a few
• 1:02:27
  teeth. You find a piece of the skull, a
• 1:02:30
  few teeth on a piece of the jaw and that's proof its
• 1:02:33
  intermediate between a whale and a cow.
• 1:02:35
  You have got to be kidding. I'm sure this is one of the ones
• 1:02:38
  in his fossil proof for evolution and you're missing
• 1:02:41
  such a major point. I don't know if I can help if
• 1:02:44
  you can't get this, but No fossil no fossils count as
• 1:02:50
  evidence for evolution in a court of law.
• 1:02:53
  They would laugh at you because you bring some bones in and say
• 1:02:57
  your honor. This is the ancestor of Wales.
• 1:03:00
  Well, first place, there's not enough to tell what it is.
• 1:03:04
  Secondly, you don't know that, that is the ancestor of anybody.
• 1:03:09
  You don't know that, that animal had any kids that lived.
• 1:03:12
  It is absolutely impossible to use any fossils.
• 1:03:16
  At all as evidence for evolution and anybody that's telling you
• 1:03:20
  fossils are evidence for evolution.
• 1:03:22
  You talk about Voodoo science. That is it folks?
• 1:03:24
  Okay? We know these bones produce
• 1:03:26
  something other than their kind even though no animal today can
• 1:03:29
  do this, these bones are able to do it.
• 1:03:32
  That's absolute Voodoo science. That's a good word for.
• 1:03:34
  I got to use that one for now and I appreciate that.
• 1:03:35
  Okay, and if we can rewind the tape, we would hear you said
• 1:03:40
  many times while probably it happened.
• 1:03:43
  We're here so that proves we're here.
• 1:03:47
  So that proves Evolution man you talk about Voodoo science and
• 1:03:51
  absolute insanity and logic. You are here.
• 1:03:55
  I agree that doesn't have, it doesn't offer any support for
• 1:03:58
  the evolution theory. Yes, I agree.
• 1:04:01
  We're here. I happen to like being here.
• 1:04:03
  Okay. So and then you said something.
• 1:04:06
  I think the average audience may miss if you're not careful here,
• 1:04:09
  he said well it's so complicated and the implication that I get
• 1:04:14
  because I get this all the time. I've had done many debates
• 1:04:16
  universities and I don't I've never had a class in debate.
• 1:04:20
  I don't understand how the rules are, and I don't know about all
• 1:04:22
  this time, keeping stuff. All I know is, I think the
• 1:04:24
  evidence is overwhelmingly obvious.
• 1:04:26
  There must have been a designer. Okay, and I'm here to defend the
• 1:04:30
  biblical view of creation as the only logical scientific choice
• 1:04:34
  and I'm here to tell people, I resent.
• 1:04:35
  Everybody's tax dollars going to pay for this Voodoo science of
• 1:04:38
  evolution to be taught in this University and other
• 1:04:39
  universities around the world. Beer is often sold at football
• 1:04:42
  games, but beer has absolutely nothing to do with football,
• 1:04:45
  okay? Beer does not become athletic by
• 1:04:48
  association and just because evolution is mixed into a
• 1:04:51
  science book that does not make Evolution part of science.
• 1:04:54
  It's It's mixed in the book and I'm sorry about that.
• 1:04:56
  Okay, I'm trying to fix it but he said, it's so complicated.
• 1:04:58
  We don't want to confuse confuse the people or something to that
• 1:05:02
  effect. That remember the exact quote
• 1:05:03
  here, to me. What that's trying to imply is
• 1:05:07
  there, smart, you're too dumb to understand anybody.
• 1:05:09
  That doesn't believe in evolution is simply dumb.
• 1:05:11
  And if you, if you just would study this 4:00 like I have then
• 1:05:14
  you'd believe like I do. And since you don't believe like
• 1:05:16
  I do, you haven't studied enough and you're dumb That's the
• 1:05:22
  implication I'm getting. Is anybody else getting that
• 1:05:24
  from this tonight? Okay, now we do exist.
• 1:05:28
  We are here, I agree. And that is your evidence for
• 1:05:31
  evolution. You got to be kidding, all of
• 1:05:33
  the evidence of evolution from Wales, first place.
• 1:05:36
  No, fossils, count, none. Think about it.
• 1:05:38
  No fossils. Can possibly count for evidence.
• 1:05:41
  And the fossils, they find a little fragments here and there,
• 1:05:43
  and they are putting their imagination and interpretation
• 1:05:45
  on those fossils. Look, when you find a bunch of,
• 1:05:48
  there is no such thing as a fossil record.
• 1:05:51
  How I teach that blows my mind. I said well in the fossil record
• 1:05:53
  I said, well, what fossil record there is no fossil record.
• 1:05:57
  There are a bunch of bones in the dirt.
• 1:06:00
  There's a bunch of bones in the dirt.
• 1:06:02
  I agree. I happen to have a huge fossil
• 1:06:04
  collection myself but those bones don't have dates on them.
• 1:06:07
  They don't come with a little tag saying this one evolved into
• 1:06:09
  this one. All you do is put your
• 1:06:12
  preconceived evolutionary imagination idea on top of these
• 1:06:15
  fossils that are found. See the creationists and
• 1:06:17
  evolutionists are both looking at the same evidence.
• 1:06:20
  We both see the fossils, I see that is example of death.
• 1:06:25
  They see that is example of wow that's how we got a head.
• 1:06:27
  All these animals died and that wonderful no, that's proof.
• 1:06:30
  That was a big flood because fossils just don't normally form
• 1:06:33
  except under special conditions and billions and billions of
• 1:06:36
  fossils are found as to meet us. Evidence of the Bible.
• 1:06:38
  I see it that way. Thank you.
• 1:06:40
  The first question will be posed to the evolutionist side.
• 1:06:45
  The question is, is The Big Bang Theory a reasonable scientific
• 1:06:49
  theory He's explained, you'll have seven minutes.
• 1:06:52
  Mr. Hogan left three months, Free bottle and then we will go
• 1:06:54
  on to completely independent. Question is The Big Bang Theory
• 1:06:57
  a reasonable scientific theory, please explain, thank you.
• 1:07:09
  Yes I will answer the the issue for the team.
• 1:07:13
  Yes, the Big Bang Theory is viable but it's one of two
• 1:07:18
  theories about the existence of the of the universe.
• 1:07:23
  One of which was a constant energy.
• 1:07:26
  Universe is said that basically simply exists in energy is
• 1:07:31
  somehow generated with within itself inside there is no
• 1:07:35
  scientific evidence to show show that, that particular theory of
• 1:07:40
  the universe has ever been proven or shown any evidence to
• 1:07:47
  show The Big Bang Theory does have a see a piece of evidence
• 1:07:54
  that Wilson and cons, you know, from Bell Labs, got a Nobel
• 1:08:00
  Prize for discovering. The fact that there was a
• 1:08:05
  electric radiation throughout the Tire Universe is and all
• 1:08:10
  particular, directions believed to be the, the remnants of the
• 1:08:14
  explosion of the energy in the birth of the universe.
• 1:08:19
  And their antennas would basically they get point no
• 1:08:22
  matter how they pointed the antennas in any direction, they
• 1:08:26
  discovered that the intensity of radiation.
• 1:08:29
  And that particular direction was the same which was
• 1:08:34
  essentially proof. A proof of the of a piece of
• 1:08:38
  data. Data that showed that there may
• 1:08:39
  have been something that that made the Big Bang Theory.
• 1:08:44
  So that we have that, the scientific evidence right now is
• 1:08:51
  that the Big Bang Theory is the best knowledge that we have.
• 1:08:59
  It is believed. There are some very strange
• 1:09:02
  things about it. It starts essentially with there
• 1:09:08
  was Void. Now the void is, it wasn't a
• 1:09:12
  hole or a box with nothing in it.
• 1:09:15
  It vertically didn't even have space.
• 1:09:18
  It was nothing and somehow a black hole, the size of an atom
• 1:09:25
  became unstable and exploded and it filled essentially into an
• 1:09:32
  area face of an atom 10 to the six more mass.
• 1:09:37
  And we currently, Have in the existing Universe, I find having
• 1:09:44
  something that packed together and how close we are here.
• 1:09:49
  And if we believe in the conservation of mass principles
• 1:09:52
  and things of this nature, all things have to be conserved in
• 1:09:58
  the conserved, the conservation has to exist, either in the
• 1:10:02
  beginning, in the middle, and at the end, And as such we are here
• 1:10:09
  and know today, the information on the knowledge had to have
• 1:10:13
  existed at the, at the beginning of the creation of the universe.
• 1:10:19
  Now, you can, you can you can place anything that you wish
• 1:10:23
  about how this happened or who happened or how it happened or
• 1:10:27
  where it come from. I don't know how a God could
• 1:10:30
  come outside of our universe because there's nothing else out
• 1:10:33
  of our universe. It's a void.
• 1:10:34
  There's nothing you can't go outside of University.
• 1:10:39
  But we we do now that the tender the billion years ago that from
• 1:10:49
  the beginning of 10 billion years ago, we have the universe
• 1:10:54
  essentially to it's time to date the cooling of energy, in the
• 1:10:59
  formation of stars and the formation of materials and
• 1:11:04
  eventually forming planets. And In six four to six billion
• 1:11:08
  years ago, we had a crust around this particular planet and
• 1:11:13
  eventually some some chemicals got together and we had life and
• 1:11:20
  the rest is here and we're here and I can I believe that and I
• 1:11:26
  believe that it's so and all of the all of the absolute details
• 1:11:34
  in are many, many details. I are probably less important to
• 1:11:40
  me than the fact that it did begin and it does exist.
• 1:11:44
  And they were here today I'm not I'm not fighting about with
• 1:11:49
  religion. I'm a Christian, I have, no, I
• 1:11:53
  have no conflict with with Christian beliefs, my Christian
• 1:11:57
  beliefs and and with the scientific methods that I also
• 1:12:02
  believe in as well. So, you know, I don't see
• 1:12:04
  anything that's contradictory to this.
• 1:12:08
  Luther you more? Am I on?
• 1:12:12
  Okay, you're more of an expert of this and I am so I was just
• 1:12:15
  going to ask you to elaborate a little bit of the possibility of
• 1:12:20
  getting some corroborative evidence of something like the
• 1:12:24
  big bang through the view of the Hubble back into time.
• 1:12:29
  Is that something that might Provide corroborative evidence
• 1:12:34
  for then, all right. Yes, the the the scientific
• 1:12:38
  record is is accumulating substantially about our name,
• 1:12:45
  our measurements. And essentially, what is going
• 1:12:49
  on in the universe and essentially, what what we know
• 1:12:53
  about the mechanism of this? We're dealing with astronomical
• 1:12:58
  sizes, and huge, and huge, and huge places.
• 1:13:02
  And if it started with a little place, the size of an atom, we
• 1:13:09
  do know that it is done. I can tell you one thing that we
• 1:13:13
  can all say that is true time has always gone forward and
• 1:13:19
  time, goes forward with entropy into diversity and diversity.
• 1:13:25
  Generates through time, it creates everything that's
• 1:13:30
  possible. And what we have today, possible
• 1:13:34
  is what we have and what we are observing.
• 1:13:47
  Dr. Hovind. You'll now have three minutes to
• 1:13:50
  rebuttal that statement and then I will ask you a completely
• 1:13:53
  independent question. Thank you, okay, given us
• 1:13:57
  regard. The universe is self existing
• 1:13:59
  and not created based on The Big Bang Theory textbooks, 18 or 20
• 1:14:03
  billion years ago, there was a all the matter in the universe
• 1:14:06
  which would be a lot of stuff. And by the way, the word
• 1:14:07
  Universe means a single spoken Ian's Universe single spoken
• 1:14:12
  sentence. God said, when he said there,
• 1:14:14
  nothing can exist outside the universe.
• 1:14:16
  This is about, like, two computers talking to each other.
• 1:14:18
  Does Man exist. Nothing exists outside the
• 1:14:20
  computer where it Duh. Okay.
• 1:14:25
  All the matter in the universe was in concentrated in one very
• 1:14:28
  dense. Very hot region, that may have
• 1:14:29
  been much smaller than a period on this page.
• 1:14:32
  I think that's what we just heard a moment ago.
• 1:14:33
  Okay, this says, textbook says after many billions of years all
• 1:14:36
  the matter and energy, will once again be packed into a small
• 1:14:39
  area. This area will be no larger than
• 1:14:41
  the period at the end of this sentence.
• 1:14:43
  Then another big bang will occur.
• 1:14:44
  It happens every 80 to 100 billion years, Save the Planet.
• 1:14:47
  We're going to get squished, folks.
• 1:14:48
  Okay, this guy said, nothing really means.
• 1:14:52
  It's nothing. That's brilliant.
• 1:14:55
  Okay, not only matter and energy would disappear but also space
• 1:14:57
  and time, however, physicists theorize that from the state of
• 1:15:01
  nothingness, the universe began in a gigantic explosion.
• 1:15:04
  I believe, that's what I just heard in the last few minutes.
• 1:15:06
  Okay, this whole big bang idea started with a guy named George
• 1:15:09
  or Isaac. Edward George Latimer, who said
• 1:15:12
  the thing that exploded was a few light-years in diameter?
• 1:15:15
  Well, at least that's about 12 trillion miles, okay.
• 1:15:18
  Then by 1965, they said, well it was only two hundred seventy
• 1:15:20
  five million miles 1972. I think we're Scientific
• 1:15:23
  American Ed know, the thing that exploded, the Big Bang came from
• 1:15:26
  something only 71 million miles in diameter later.
• 1:15:29
  They said, oh no, it's only 54,000 miles 1983.
• 1:15:32
  They said the thing that exploded was a trillionth, the
• 1:15:35
  diameter of a proton. Now, that's tiny.
• 1:15:38
  Okay, and now they're saying nothing exploded.
• 1:15:40
  Here's discover magazine. Two years ago, where did
• 1:15:42
  everything come from the universe burst into something?
• 1:15:45
  From absolutely nothing. Zero.
• 1:15:47
  NADA, as it got bigger, it became filled with even more
• 1:15:49
  stuff that came from. Absolutely nowhere.
• 1:15:51
  How is that possible? Ask Alan Guth, his theory will.
• 1:15:53
  Plain everything. Well, what does Alan Guth say?
• 1:15:56
  In Scientific American Alan Guth says the observable universe
• 1:15:59
  could have evolved from an infinitesimal region.
• 1:16:01
  That's a DOT. He said, it's then tempting to
• 1:16:04
  go one step further and speculate that the entire
• 1:16:06
  universe evolved from literally nothing folks.
• 1:16:08
  Why was a sentence like this be found in Scientific American.
• 1:16:12
  There's nothing scientific about that stated exhibits.
• 1:16:14
  Incredible Faith, but the textbooks, teach this, this dot
• 1:16:18
  was spinning. It, spun faster and faster.
• 1:16:20
  Finally exploded the Big Bang. There are so many problems with
• 1:16:23
  the bill. Bang, simple, physical, science,
• 1:16:26
  problems. What exploded?
• 1:16:27
  Where did the matter come from? Where did the energy come from?
• 1:16:29
  Where did the organization come from?
• 1:16:31
  Where did the information come from?
• 1:16:33
  He, the story he gave was so good.
• 1:16:35
  I got to replay the tape and here this, you know, 4.6 billion
• 1:16:38
  years ago, the planet developed a rocky crust, the chemicals got
• 1:16:40
  together, you know, blah, blah, blah, here we are exactly what I
• 1:16:43
  said earlier. That's what, that's what the
• 1:16:44
  theory teaches. Now, he wants to believe that
• 1:16:46
  that's fine. I don't care what you believe,
• 1:16:48
  but don't call that science. And don't make me pay to teach
• 1:16:51
  that to the rest of these kids. In this University, these kids
• 1:16:53
  came here to learn some science. Not a fairy tale like that.
• 1:16:55
  Thank you. Dr. Hovind.
• 1:17:02
  The next question will be posed to you.
• 1:17:04
  You'll have seven minutes and then the evolutionist will have
• 1:17:07
  three minutes. The questions more of an open
• 1:17:10
  end one please prove disprove or generally talk about carbon
• 1:17:15
  dating and how it relates to evolution.
• 1:17:24
  My projector on here. See, I have about 7,000 slides
• 1:17:29
  in PowerPoint. So it helps if you ask the
• 1:17:31
  questions in the same order that I have the answers, Carbon
• 1:17:36
  dating. Okay, carbon dating Bachelor,
• 1:17:40
  fossils are dated by their position.
• 1:17:42
  In the geologic column, they are not dated by carbon dating or
• 1:17:45
  potassium. Argon rubidium strontium LED
• 1:17:46
  2008 led to a six, none of those matter.
• 1:17:48
  A fossil is dated by the position in the geologic column.
• 1:17:51
  They're called index fossils. This guy admits it radiometric
• 1:17:53
  dating would not have been feasible if the geologic column
• 1:17:56
  end up been erected. First the geologic column was
• 1:17:58
  invented in 1918 30s that was taught for 120 years and became
• 1:18:02
  accepted as science and the geologic column doesn't exist
• 1:18:04
  any place on the planet. Okay, there is no geologic
• 1:18:07
  column. There are layers of rocks and
• 1:18:09
  they're assuming that it's different ages.
• 1:18:10
  That's the problem right there. This guy says fossils have been
• 1:18:14
  and still are the best and most accurate method, of course,
• 1:18:17
  dating and correlating the rocks in which they occur.
• 1:18:19
  We go through all kinds of examples on this, but on video,
• 1:18:21
  on seven, the Earth's atmosphere is about 100 miles thick.
• 1:18:24
  It is mostly nitrogen, 78% 21%. Oxygen little bit of CO2 for
• 1:18:28
  plants to breathe and very little radioactive, carbon-14
• 1:18:32
  point, zero, zero, zero, zero, seven six, five percent this
• 1:18:35
  Carbon-14 mixes with oxygen and it becomes carbon dioxide most
• 1:18:39
  of it does and the plants are breathing.
• 1:18:41
  Carbon dioxide carbon 14 is formed when radiation strikes
• 1:18:45
  the atmosphere the nitrogen which is the majority gas or up
• 1:18:48
  there. And here, nitrogen gets
• 1:18:51
  bombarded by cosmic rays and bombards, the upper atmosphere
• 1:18:55
  producing fast-moving. Neutrinos these neutrinos
• 1:18:57
  collide with atmospheric nitrogen, producing carbon 14,
• 1:19:00
  that's how it's made. If you look at it, if you're out
• 1:19:02
  at table, carbon and nitrogen are right next to each other
• 1:19:05
  nitrogen is Normally an atomic weight of 14 and carbon has an
• 1:19:08
  atomic weight of 12. But if the nitrogen gets blasted
• 1:19:11
  with these neutrinos, it turns into carbon 14 which is a rare
• 1:19:15
  very rare and radioactive element.
• 1:19:18
  It is radioactive just like uranium or any other radioactive
• 1:19:21
  element and you can hear it as it decays or breaks apart and
• 1:19:23
  throws off all the little particles into into space around
• 1:19:25
  it. Now carbon-14 is being produced
• 1:19:27
  by the Sun or by the neutrinos by the high-speed radiation, law
• 1:19:31
  doesn't matter. It breaks back down to nitrogen
• 1:19:33
  about half of it. Breaks down every 5700 Year's
• 1:19:36
  Day. This is the estimated to be the
• 1:19:38
  half life. Obviously, nobody watched it for
• 1:19:39
  thirty seven hundred year but during but photosynthesis plants
• 1:19:42
  are breathing in CO2. And so the animals, eat the
• 1:19:46
  plants and make it part of their body.
• 1:19:47
  So you and I probably have carbon 14 in us because at some
• 1:19:50
  time in your life you have either eaten plants or you've
• 1:19:52
  eaten animals that have eaten plants that's about all there is
• 1:19:56
  okay. So these plants are absorbing
• 1:19:58
  things out of the atmosphere. They're absorbing the carbon-14,
• 1:20:01
  it becomes part of their tissue. It is assumed the ratio of c14
• 1:20:05
  to Normalcy 12 in the atmosphere would be the same ratio found in
• 1:20:08
  living plants and animals. If the atmosphere is point zero
• 1:20:11
  zero, zero, zero seven, six five percent it is assumed plants and
• 1:20:14
  animals have the same percentage that has never been demonstrated
• 1:20:17
  but it's a reasonable assumption.
• 1:20:18
  Okay. When the plant or animal dies it
• 1:20:20
  stops taking in new c14. So in theory you can tell how
• 1:20:23
  long it's been dead by measuring how much c14 is left.
• 1:20:26
  This entire process was invented by Willard Libby Nobel Prize,
• 1:20:29
  winner for inventing carbon dating University.
• 1:20:33
  Chicago 1947 253 he worked on this moved.
• 1:20:35
  A university. Carbon-14 the continues to Decay
• 1:20:39
  after the animal dies, if half of its gone, you would assume
• 1:20:42
  it's been dead 5,700 years. It can't get any more obviously.
• 1:20:46
  So it's going to go out of balance.
• 1:20:47
  Carbon dating is actually a comparison of the carbon-14 in
• 1:20:50
  the object, with the carbon-14 in the atmosphere.
• 1:20:53
  It's a ratio, okay? If it's .000 765, it is still
• 1:20:57
  alive. If it's only 0000 3825, it's
• 1:21:00
  5,700 years, old, etc, etc. The less it has the older, it
• 1:21:05
  is. This is how the theory works.
• 1:21:06
  It goes from a half to a fourth to 1/8 to a sixteenth to not
• 1:21:09
  much, okay. They compared the amount of c14
• 1:21:12
  in the object being dated with the amount in the atmosphere to
• 1:21:15
  estimate. How long it's been dead.
• 1:21:17
  If only half of it has been, it's only got half as much.
• 1:21:20
  It's assumed it diet 5730 years ago, sounds good, but there are
• 1:21:23
  some assumptions that mess up everything.
• 1:21:25
  If I told you to fill a barrel with water, but there were holes
• 1:21:28
  in the barrel as you're putting water in, it's leaking out.
• 1:21:32
  It's kind of like a checkbook, you know, you keep putting the
• 1:21:34
  money in, it keeps leaking out different places, but at some
• 1:21:37
  point, you're gonna reach a stage called equilibrium, you
• 1:21:39
  will never fill the barrel pass that point, unless you speed up
• 1:21:41
  the intake or cut down the outgo, the Earth's atmosphere is
• 1:21:45
  going to have the same problem. If you took a brand new planet
• 1:21:47
  Earth, created it poof and stuck it out and going around the Sun,
• 1:21:50
  93 million miles away. It would start developing c14
• 1:21:54
  from radiation and start losing it to Decay.
• 1:21:56
  So the question is, they Wonder this back in 1950.
• 1:21:59
  How long would it take Earth's atmosphere to reach equilibrium?
• 1:22:03
  That's the consensus, was it would probably take about thirty
• 1:22:05
  thousand years for the earth to reach equilibrium and then
• 1:22:08
  whether Libya and the boys University of Chicago made a
• 1:22:10
  tragic mistake. They made two fundamentally
• 1:22:13
  fatally flawed assumptions. They said, well, we know the
• 1:22:16
  Earth is millions of years old mistake number one, so we can
• 1:22:19
  ignore the equilibrium problem. They ignored it.
• 1:22:24
  Problem is radiocarbon is still forming 28 to 37 percent faster
• 1:22:27
  than its decaying. With carbon 14 is proof of the
• 1:22:29
  earth is less than 30,000 years old or else it would all be
• 1:22:32
  stabilized by. Now it would be stable in the
• 1:22:35
  atmosphere and it's not okay. We can talk all day about that.
• 1:22:38
  But basically, if an animal is still alive, you should give you
• 1:22:40
  about 16 clicks on your geiger counter.
• 1:22:42
  If it's only giving you eight, you're going to say it's 5,700
• 1:22:45
  years old. If it's only given you for it's
• 1:22:46
  11,000 years old, etc. Etc.
• 1:22:48
  This is how carbon dating is done.
• 1:22:50
  I won't have time to cover all of the evidence.
• 1:22:52
  Vanessa's of have I'm going to just give you a few examples of
• 1:22:54
  how it simply doesn't work because one good experiment is
• 1:22:58
  worth a pound of theory. Any day back in 1949 when the
• 1:23:01
  developed it, the lower leg of a mammoth dated 15 thousand years
• 1:23:04
  old, but the skin dated twenty one thousand years old, same
• 1:23:07
  animal. It's not working in. 1949 1963,
• 1:23:10
  living mollusk, shells data, 2,300 years old, it's still not
• 1:23:13
  working, folks, 1970. At the proceedings of the 12th
• 1:23:17
  Nobel, simple Symposium. They said if a carbon date
• 1:23:20
  supports our theories, we put it in the main text.
• 1:23:22
  Not entirely contradict mm. We put it in a footnote if it's
• 1:23:25
  completely out of date, we just drop it.
• 1:23:28
  Freshly killed steel. Carbon dated 1300 years old, one
• 1:23:31
  part of a mammoth is 40,000 years old and other parts 26,000
• 1:23:34
  from the same animal. Now, we could talk all day about
• 1:23:37
  carbon dating but here's living. Snails carbon dated 27, thousand
• 1:23:40
  years old, 1984 Science magazine.
• 1:23:44
  I don't have time to cover them all, but watch my video number
• 1:23:46
  seven which is why it's out there 1992 to Colorado Creek.
• 1:23:49
  Mammoths and Alaska found side by side, one day to 22,000 years
• 1:23:52
  old. The other one was sixteen
• 1:23:53
  thousand years old. They're side by side. 1996 at
• 1:23:57
  Berkeley University. They use the most advanced
• 1:23:59
  dating techniques. They have they discovered these
• 1:24:02
  things that they thought were quarter million years old.
• 1:24:03
  Actually, we're 53,000 to 27,000.
• 1:24:07
  Well, I'd like to point out your honor that is still a 96 percent
• 1:24:11
  error. If you think carbon dating
• 1:24:13
  proves the age of anything you need your head examined.
• 1:24:16
  Thank you. I'd like a show of hands of how
• 1:24:25
  many understood that. I guess we aren't the only Liars
• 1:24:33
  here. Hi.
• 1:24:41
  I have a pamphlet here written by The Institute for creation
• 1:24:47
  research on radioactive isotopes.
• 1:24:50
  I'm quoting a sentence of the conclusion there.
• 1:24:55
  They're doing an investigation on Radioactive.
• 1:24:57
  As the thing is called rape, and it says, we would appreciate
• 1:25:04
  your involvement. In this effort, the most
• 1:25:06
  important contribution you can make is through prayer.
• 1:25:09
  We recognize, this is a Monumental task and we need you
• 1:25:12
  to pray that we have wisdom. As we work science would never
• 1:25:17
  pray for success. I wanted to find out why the
• 1:25:21
  evolutionists and the creationist disagreed on this
• 1:25:24
  carbon dating things so much. So I went to one of the most
• 1:25:26
  famous creationist that. I know Henry Morris is the past
• 1:25:32
  president of the institution creation research in his
• 1:25:37
  pamphlet of the crease Institute creation, research Society in
• 1:25:42
  March 1982 page 226, he explains.
• 1:25:47
  Why only Dark carbon dating shows a short time is effective.
• 1:25:52
  I quote when God's squeezed energy into Adams, he squeezed
• 1:25:57
  and held the atom so tightly that there was no unstable
• 1:26:01
  elements and therefore no radioactivity at the fall of
• 1:26:05
  Adam and Eve. He relaxed his grip slightly
• 1:26:09
  which affected every atom, it allowed some to become unstable.
• 1:26:14
  That is radioactive, it's all because of Adam And Eve sin that
• 1:26:20
  we have unstable radioactivity, isn't that right?
• 1:26:26
  When I think this we don't need any more time.
• 1:26:30
  We're done. Okay, let me go ahead and pose
• 1:26:34
  the next question to you. I'd like to give you guys an
• 1:26:36
  open-ended 12 for fairness sake. Let me just read the question to
• 1:26:40
  you verbatim and then please talk on this topic.
• 1:26:44
  Question says, in evolution there appears to be no real
• 1:26:48
  purpose to life. What hope do you have to offer
• 1:26:51
  me to even bother to continue to live?
• 1:26:54
  So I guess You know what I do? You say hi for the sake of
• 1:27:00
  open-ended, as please. I guess we're talking about
• 1:27:03
  morality purpose. Anything along those lines.
• 1:27:07
  Well, let me let me, let me point to point out.
• 1:27:09
  One thing that this was, you know, sort of confusing terms,
• 1:27:15
  that may not be a purpose ostensively defined for the
• 1:27:20
  universe as a whole, or, for society as a whole even.
• 1:27:24
  But that doesn't mean that an individual.
• 1:27:26
  Could not set up a purpose for him or herself.
• 1:27:29
  I'm going to live first. Then I decide what's worth while
• 1:27:34
  for me to strive for in my life, if I simply subject myself to
• 1:27:38
  the mass and say because they don't have a purpose, I'm going
• 1:27:42
  to kill myself. There's something demented, I
• 1:27:44
  think I need counseling at that point for all practical purposes
• 1:27:47
  here. So here again, I think I think
• 1:27:51
  purpose is something that we create individually for
• 1:27:55
  ourselves. It's not something that we
• 1:27:56
  deduce from the nature of the universe.
• 1:28:00
  And anyway, I'm sure that everyone here has some kind of a
• 1:28:04
  purpose in their existence. Define by themselves to find
• 1:28:10
  where they're going to go. So that, that would be my take
• 1:28:13
  on that and did you want to Sure, look at DNA changes and it
• 1:28:25
  changes. So that animals and plants
• 1:28:27
  survive, if the DNA changes in a brain of an animal to make that
• 1:28:32
  animals to breed successfully by taking care of its young, taking
• 1:28:37
  care of his brothers and sisters, and taking care of his
• 1:28:39
  family, then animal May survive. If on the other hand, the DNA
• 1:28:44
  goes in a different direction in the animal learns to swimmer or
• 1:28:48
  Or fly that can an animal can survive.
• 1:28:51
  Certain animals? Have more emotions than others.
• 1:28:56
  We can measure the emotions in, dog.
• 1:28:58
  Anybody, anybody here want a dog?
• 1:28:59
  That doesn't have any emotions, you know, my two dogs have all
• 1:29:03
  kinds of emotions. I can tell when they're guilty
• 1:29:05
  and I can tell, you know, when there's a happy and I can tell
• 1:29:08
  when they're sad, it's and it's good for them.
• 1:29:11
  They have the DNA in their brains that gave them the
• 1:29:15
  ability to be pack animals and they survive.
• 1:29:18
  Because of it. Now some animals like cats and
• 1:29:22
  how many cat owners in their know that cats are pack animals.
• 1:29:24
  They don't care if your home or not.
• 1:29:26
  Come on dog, owners know the dogs.
• 1:29:28
  Can't wait for you to get home. The can't survive because of the
• 1:29:32
  way, the evolved human beings survive because of the way we
• 1:29:36
  evolved to. So, it's important to us to take
• 1:29:39
  care of our children to, it's important for us to make sure
• 1:29:43
  that our family survive. It's important for us to get mad
• 1:29:47
  once in a while. I'll is important for us to love
• 1:29:50
  those things. Have to be able to come out of
• 1:29:52
  us because we've got the right chemicals in our body to do
• 1:29:56
  that. If we didn't have those
• 1:29:57
  chemicals, we couldn't do it. So, it's a anytime you talk
• 1:30:03
  about any kind of emotions, we've got them and soda.
• 1:30:06
  Lots of other animals. If we want to talk, we can even
• 1:30:09
  talk about plants for heaven sakes, if insects attack a maple
• 1:30:15
  tree that maple tree, Give us off a chemical called, a
• 1:30:21
  pheromone that goes all through the rest of the forest and
• 1:30:25
  unites with the leaves, in the trees and wrestle for us.
• 1:30:28
  Those trees pick up that pheromone and then they produce
• 1:30:32
  a chemical to withstand the insect infection that's
• 1:30:36
  important for those trees to be able to do that.
• 1:30:38
  It's important for them to be able to communicate with each
• 1:30:41
  other by using chemicals. It's important for us to do the
• 1:30:44
  same thing but we smell on each other is important what we see
• 1:30:48
  on. On each other is important.
• 1:30:50
  Those things are controlled by DNA.
• 1:30:53
  Can you? Can you, can you teach your
• 1:30:55
  child to love? Can you teach your child to hate
• 1:31:00
  sure? You can, but you can do it
• 1:31:03
  because those chemicals are there.
• 1:31:07
  We are an animal that has the ability to make our environment
• 1:31:12
  part of what. So we can survive, we can
• 1:31:16
  control our environment, we can Toilet because we've got
• 1:31:19
  intelligence, you can control it because we have emotions, we get
• 1:31:23
  those things. We get the basic cards we play
• 1:31:26
  with from DNA. Some of us, get a better deck
• 1:31:30
  than the rest. What are you going to do about
• 1:31:33
  that? And the answer is, you can't do
• 1:31:34
  anything about it, you can try to fit into your environment.
• 1:31:38
  You can't make yourself something that you want to be.
• 1:31:42
  Just by wishing it. You got your sperm and egg.
• 1:31:48
  You know, and that's permit, an egg developed from a lot of
• 1:31:52
  cells that me. I want to ask you a question
• 1:31:58
  because another question because I hear I hear this a lot and
• 1:32:03
  people are saying well How do you know about that Evolution,
• 1:32:07
  you weren't there? How do you know that those
• 1:32:09
  things are really happening? You weren't there?
• 1:32:11
  Well, my question to you is, were you there when you were
• 1:32:15
  conceived, You remember then? How can you prove that you were
• 1:32:22
  conceived if you weren't there? Some of you are saying.
• 1:32:26
  Well, that's a silly question. Well, of course it's a silly
• 1:32:29
  question and it's a silly question because we can look
• 1:32:34
  back in the past we can trace back.
• 1:32:39
  What happens to animals to make them behave a certain way.
• 1:32:43
  We can trace back to certain animals to make them to show
• 1:32:46
  what kind of character. Six, they have.
• 1:32:49
  If you were to take a little chunk of skin right there for
• 1:32:52
  me, and look at that hair, follicle.
• 1:32:54
  Then you were to take a ruler or a bird in and take his wing and
• 1:33:01
  take that little follicle out right there.
• 1:33:04
  That's a feather. Follicle, of course, if you took
• 1:33:06
  it from his leg, it would be asked in a scale.
• 1:33:08
  Follicle, if you took a little chunk from a fish, you'd get
• 1:33:12
  another scale follicle. So the scale, follicles bird,
• 1:33:16
  feather follicles and hair. Follicles.
• 1:33:18
  When we look at the DNA in those follicles, they're almost
• 1:33:22
  exactly alike. And then when we look at the DNA
• 1:33:26
  that produces the proteins, that makes Hair Skin scales and
• 1:33:32
  Feathers, it's almost exactly like we can show relationships.
• 1:33:37
  That's important Evolution. Wouldn't mean anything if we
• 1:33:39
  couldn't show relationships, if if we found that a dog was more
• 1:33:44
  genetically related to a frog. Than it is to a cat.
• 1:33:49
  We'd know, something's wrong, but we never find that we know
• 1:33:52
  we've got so much information. Genetically that will probably
• 1:33:57
  remain never figure it all out. We spend a lot of time you're
• 1:34:00
  talking about fossils fossils, don't mean anything.
• 1:34:03
  As far as evolution is concerned, we don't need them.
• 1:34:06
  We got all the evidence. We need to prove Evolution
• 1:34:09
  without fossils. Forget fossils.
• 1:34:10
  They just aren't important. What's important is tiene All
• 1:34:22
  right, the question was, what's the purpose of life?
• 1:34:28
  Okay. Joseph, Stalin executed 14,700
• 1:34:31
  polish officers. Prisoners of War at the katyn
• 1:34:34
  forest. Why did you do that?
• 1:34:36
  How do you execute prisoners of War?
• 1:34:38
  Adolf Hitler executed at least 6 million Jews, plus millions of
• 1:34:41
  others. Why would a person killed Jews?
• 1:34:43
  Well, Hitler thought they were an inferior species ahead and
• 1:34:46
  evolved as far, he was actually trying to speed up the evolution
• 1:34:48
  process 1975. 279 the Khmer Rouge under the leadership.
• 1:34:52
  Paul Pott executed, more than one-third of their entire
• 1:34:55
  population. Check out The Killing Fields.
• 1:34:58
  Why did they do that? Why would the Australian
• 1:35:00
  Aborigines treated? Like they were animals bar
• 1:35:03
  Australian Aboriginal skulls? Dug up out of Graves or people
• 1:35:07
  were executed in their skulls were boiled down and there's
• 1:35:09
  sold to museums in America to have displays for evolution
• 1:35:12
  because they have a bigger job than other humans.
• 1:35:14
  Do Kip, Kinkel said, if there was a God he wouldn't let me
• 1:35:18
  feel the way I do. There is no God only hate huh.
• 1:35:22
  Well in May 1st May 21st 1998 fifteen-year-old Kip Kinkel a
• 1:35:25
  student at Thurston High School and Oregon headed the cafeteria
• 1:35:29
  fired more than 50 rounds from a semi-automatic rifle. 26
• 1:35:32
  students were injured two were killed later.
• 1:35:34
  The bodies of his parents were found in his home.
• 1:35:36
  He was taken. He was arrested taken to a
• 1:35:38
  police headquarters where he attempted to murder a detective.
• 1:35:41
  He said, if there was a God, he wouldn't let me feel the way I
• 1:35:43
  do. Is there's no God only Hate by a
• 1:35:45
  violent crimes increased. Nearly a thousand percent, since
• 1:35:47
  I was a boy and that's the time, Evolution became a popular
• 1:35:50
  theory in our textbook Dylon Klebold and Eric Harris made a
• 1:35:54
  video prior to the Columbine shootings.
• 1:35:56
  They're talking about a football player.
• 1:35:57
  They said he doesn't deserve the jaw Evolution, gave him look for
• 1:36:00
  his jaw, it won't be on his body.
• 1:36:02
  Clear bolts, father was a geologist who believed in
• 1:36:04
  evolution, both Eric and dialed in we follow Hours of Nazi
• 1:36:07
  teachings. The shooting took place on
• 1:36:08
  Hitler's birthday on purpose. It was planned to commemorate
• 1:36:11
  Hitler. Eric's t-shirt said, natural
• 1:36:13
  selection, they killed Cassie and Rachel just because they
• 1:36:17
  were Christians, they killed Isaiah show, just because he was
• 1:36:19
  black Hitler hated black people after all.
• 1:36:21
  They hadn't evolved. As far that was Hitler's
• 1:36:23
  thinking, the clothes may give a clue to the thinking of these
• 1:36:25
  teenagers said, natural selection.
• 1:36:29
  Yes, what about this natural selection?
• 1:36:32
  Well, natural selection selects, it doesn't create a thing, it
• 1:36:36
  selects. It's all I can do is not.
• 1:36:37
  It's not a creation process, we go into that some other time.
• 1:36:40
  So my answer to the question is, is there a purpose to life?
• 1:36:42
  Absolutely. There certainly is.
• 1:36:44
  God, created this universe with a plan, he created man with a
• 1:36:48
  purpose. Now, I have found in my doing
• 1:36:51
  speaking on this topic about 100 times a year all over the world
• 1:36:54
  and 15 years worth. Now, the reason people accept
• 1:36:57
  evolution theory is not I was to have a scientific reason.
• 1:37:01
  I asked a kid, two weeks ago. I was debating two professors or
• 1:37:04
  forget where I was, I didn't have three weeks ago.
• 1:37:06
  One kid came afterwards and said, evolution is a fact.
• 1:37:08
  I said, well, stunts caught on come down, let me ask you a
• 1:37:10
  question. If evolution, if creation was
• 1:37:12
  true, if the creation stories, true, would that affect your
• 1:37:15
  lifestyle? Any if there was a Creator, this
• 1:37:17
  adoption, not commit adultery, don't know, pornography, no
• 1:37:20
  lying, no cheating. No, ceiling would that affect
• 1:37:22
  your lifestyle, any he said you're trying to embarrass me,
• 1:37:24
  aren't you? I said, I don't even know who
• 1:37:26
  you are. I'm just asking you a question.
• 1:37:27
  The reason people accept evolution because of their sin
• 1:37:29
  and not their science, Dr. Heaven this question is going to
• 1:37:41
  you first. You've mentioned the second law
• 1:37:44
  of Thermodynamics to prove that God must have provided an
• 1:37:48
  initial energy or the initial something in the universe.
• 1:37:52
  Have you considered that some of the laws of nature only work in
• 1:37:54
  certain situations? For example, Newtonian physics
• 1:37:57
  breaks down towards the speed of light.
• 1:37:59
  So does it the second law of Thermodynamics, really prove
• 1:38:03
  that God created the universe. There are several ways to define
• 1:38:08
  the second law of Thermodynamics.
• 1:38:10
  There's all kinds of, let me try to get well, it'd take me a
• 1:38:14
  minute but basically it but all they all boil down to the same
• 1:38:16
  thing matter, everything tends toward disorder, okay?
• 1:38:20
  Things don't order that doesn't prove God, created the universe
• 1:38:23
  and it certainly doesn't prove the biblical view okay.
• 1:38:26
  And it doesn't prove. Everybody ought to become an
• 1:38:27
  independent. Temperamental fundamental
• 1:38:28
  right-wing, radical chicken-eating Baptist like me.
• 1:38:30
  However, if you keep studying, you will get there.
• 1:38:33
  Okay, I think the second law of Thermodynamics demonstrates,
• 1:38:37
  there must have been a beginning since everything is winding
• 1:38:40
  down. Everything is falling apart,
• 1:38:43
  there had to be a beginning. They had to be something that
• 1:38:47
  wounded up. So yes I think the second law of
• 1:38:49
  Thermodynamics is proof positive that there was a beginning even
• 1:38:52
  the evolutionist will admit that.
• 1:38:54
  Oh yeah 20 billion years ago when what was before that Was
• 1:38:58
  there any time or space before there was matter?
• 1:39:02
  And where did this matter come from?
• 1:39:03
  They have a totally illogical theory.
• 1:39:06
  Yes, I think that it's logical to say in the beginning.
• 1:39:08
  God instead of in the beginning, you know, nothing or in the
• 1:39:10
  beginning dirt or in the beginning matter, you know, they
• 1:39:13
  worship matter like the Christian Christian worships
• 1:39:15
  God, there's no difference in both religious.
• 1:39:18
  I think ours is more logical and scientifically defensible but
• 1:39:21
  they're both ultimately in the final analysis or simply
• 1:39:23
  religious theories. So the second law of
• 1:39:26
  Thermodynamics which is as far Anybody knows universally
• 1:39:29
  believed as far as Newton's Laws breaking down at, as you
• 1:39:32
  approach the speed of light. There's a lot of theories about
• 1:39:34
  that. There's also theories that
• 1:39:35
  article and discover magazine last year, April of 2003.
• 1:39:40
  This is Einstein was simply wrong, folks.
• 1:39:42
  Okay, there's a large article in there.
• 1:39:43
  The speed of light is not a constant, so I don't think it's
• 1:39:46
  correct to say that we know for sure that these laws break down
• 1:39:50
  as we approach the speed of light, it may be true.
• 1:39:51
  I don't know. I don't think anybody knows
• 1:39:53
  would be my point. I cover quite a bit about the
• 1:39:55
  speed of light and evidences of it.
• 1:39:58
  The last 10 years, proofs actually scientific experiments.
• 1:40:01
  That say the speed of light, is not a constant.
• 1:40:03
  I'll get you some of those here. No, sorry about that.
• 1:40:08
  See, I told you about asking the questions in the right order and
• 1:40:10
  I remembered a lot faster. The second law of Thermodynamics
• 1:40:15
  says, everything's falling apart.
• 1:40:16
  There are lots of stars out there.
• 1:40:18
  I mean, like billions and billions of stars.
• 1:40:20
  We don't have a clue how any one of them could form by chance and
• 1:40:23
  yet, obviously, they're here. So the second law of
• 1:40:26
  Thermodynamics the Christian would Act that God created the
• 1:40:29
  universe and we'll see things falling apart universe is
• 1:40:33
  winding down, okay it's not getting better and stars are
• 1:40:36
  blowing up it's called a nova or supernova if it's a big one.
• 1:40:39
  So yeah. We're losing things and
• 1:40:41
  eventually the universe will experience what's called a heat
• 1:40:43
  death. Everything will be uniformly,
• 1:40:45
  cold. And right now they look out in
• 1:40:46
  space and see, this 3 degree Kelvin, you know, - 270
• 1:40:51
  Centigrade or minus, four fifty two point seven, Whatever It Is
• 1:40:54
  Fahrenheit. You know, it's Universal
• 1:40:55
  temperature out there seems to be the same everywhere and it's
• 1:40:58
  Has to be this background noise is radiation.
• 1:41:00
  Okay, that's appears to be true. What does it prove?
• 1:41:03
  All that, proves the big bang, our doesn't prove the Big Bang.
• 1:41:05
  Not a burden for the Big Bang at all.
• 1:41:07
  Nobody's for sure. What's causing that we are
• 1:41:08
  seeing stars appear to be drifting away like the redshift.
• 1:41:12
  Okay? There's not much question.
• 1:41:13
  There's a red shift, the assumption is the maybe it's
• 1:41:15
  caused by the Doppler effect but actually nobody knows what's
• 1:41:18
  causing the redshift. Even if it's true that it is
• 1:41:21
  Stars drifting away or moving away, that would still beg the
• 1:41:24
  question of where did the energy come from to propel this thing?
• 1:41:27
  Where did the star itself? Come from, and I don't think we
• 1:41:29
  can prove positively that. The redshift is proof of either
• 1:41:32
  great distances or that the universe is that stars are
• 1:41:35
  moving away. The give the same thing with
• 1:41:36
  parallel motion or perpendicular motion to your line of sight.
• 1:41:39
  This guy said there was an early sign that redshifts indicate
• 1:41:41
  distance of galaxies for quasars.
• 1:41:43
  However, the diagram shows a wide scatter in apparent
• 1:41:45
  brightness at every red shift. In fact there is little
• 1:41:48
  correlation of brightness to redshift at all.
• 1:41:51
  Either quasars come in an extremely wide range of
• 1:41:53
  intrinsic, luminosities. As most people believe or their
• 1:41:56
  redshifts do not indicate distance.
• 1:41:58
  Hmm, Sky & telescope magazine, 10 years ago, this for us the
• 1:42:01
  only conclusion can be that can be drawn.
• 1:42:03
  Is that least some quasars are relatively nearby and a large
• 1:42:06
  fraction of their red shift, is due to something other than
• 1:42:09
  expansion of the universe. Some people think redshift is
• 1:42:12
  for the Doppler effect from Stars leaving maybe, so if it is
• 1:42:15
  that still an example of the second law, we see things, get
• 1:42:18
  old, they die, they fall apart and if they're if they're
• 1:42:20
  philosophy of life, is you're only here to pass on your genes,
• 1:42:24
  that's the only reason you exist, eat drink and be merry
• 1:42:26
  tomorrow. We die.
• 1:42:27
  That's a A pessimistic worldview.
• 1:42:29
  I think there's a much better view than that.
• 1:42:32
  You were created in God's image with a purpose.
• 1:42:35
  It's true. Everything's falling apart.
• 1:42:36
  The heavens wax old. I'm getting old, everything's
• 1:42:38
  falling apart. My car is falling apart
• 1:42:40
  everything falls apart. How did it get wound up?
• 1:42:44
  Where did the initial organization energy and
• 1:42:47
  intelligence come from information?
• 1:42:49
  Is consistently being lost every time.
• 1:42:52
  Your DNA, replicates, a little pieces break off and, you know,
• 1:42:54
  it's like split ends on a hair and you eventually, you can only
• 1:42:57
  replicate it so many times. Times and it did quits
• 1:42:59
  replicating and you die. You know, if we are a copy off
• 1:43:03
  of a copy off of a copy off of a copy off of a copy off of a copy
• 1:43:06
  off of a copy, off of a copy of Adam, it's amazing.
• 1:43:10
  We can even stand here and talk about it, okay.
• 1:43:13
  The information must have been incredible in the original
• 1:43:15
  because it's been degrading ever since.
• 1:43:18
  That's the second law of Thermodynamics.
• 1:43:20
  Everything is degrading. This building is degrading.
• 1:43:23
  If you don't have people constantly maintain this
• 1:43:25
  building, it will fall apart the entire Our highway system in
• 1:43:28
  America, will fall completely apart.
• 1:43:30
  If we don't keep maintaining it every building on this planet
• 1:43:33
  will fall down into a pile of rubble.
• 1:43:35
  If somebody doesn't keep fixing it and even then if they try
• 1:43:38
  desperately to keep fixing it at some point, it's still going to
• 1:43:41
  fall down. It's inevitable.
• 1:43:43
  That's the second law. So if you think that Evolution
• 1:43:46
  can overcome that s, all I would like to understand how, Okay,
• 1:43:49
  the second law tells us everything's falling apart.
• 1:43:51
  Therefore obviously, there must have been a beginning.
• 1:43:53
  I can answer that in 10 words in the beginning, God created the
• 1:43:57
  Heaven and the Earth. That's logical answer for me.
• 1:43:59
  You can have the rest of my time, right?
• 1:44:08
  I'll try. That's a mouthful to say the the
• 1:44:19
  leaves, first of all, the laws of thermodynamics are commonly
• 1:44:24
  called the laws of thermodynamics people, like to
• 1:44:27
  talk about the 2nd law, Albert Einstein is said that the laws
• 1:44:32
  of thermodynamics are the only laws that will stand and never
• 1:44:37
  be overthrown forever. Stephen Hawking.
• 1:44:44
  A person who is believed to be one of the brightest men on the
• 1:44:50
  planet has used the second law of Thermodynamics to show the
• 1:44:55
  mechanism by which black holes have worked, which, you know, I
• 1:45:00
  think that's that's other amazing.
• 1:45:05
  The opponent is saying, truly, diversity is a measure of the
• 1:45:11
  second law of Thermodynamics but I Let's don't badmouth it too
• 1:45:16
  much lie because as the universe as it exists, as we know it,
• 1:45:23
  it's the only one that can exist for us to exist to follow these
• 1:45:29
  particular principles. So, therefore, you know, I'm
• 1:45:32
  very reluctant to say, this is something that we want to have
• 1:45:36
  to ask God, to overthrow that it seems to be the very, maybe the,
• 1:45:42
  the very thing that We'll make it possible for things to exist
• 1:45:47
  energy. And how it got together.
• 1:45:50
  I don't know. But the fact that it is in a
• 1:45:55
  concentrated form that can go to a less deform kind of less
• 1:46:01
  concentrated form and we can utilize when things go from hot
• 1:46:07
  places to call places. And we did that when he drove
• 1:46:10
  our automobiles here today, you did this, you're driving around
• 1:46:14
  with an automobile. That's 8,000 degrees Fahrenheit
• 1:46:17
  inside of that engine. With the burning of gasoline
• 1:46:21
  but, you know, you don't have to have that inside of the car.
• 1:46:24
  Of course, you're surrounded by the 40 degrees or 50 degrees
• 1:46:28
  temperatures that you're driving through the through the through
• 1:46:32
  the atmosphere. The the laws of thermodynamics
• 1:46:39
  are much misunderstood I can look out across the the class or
• 1:46:48
  the students here and Other my, my students and I can probably I
• 1:46:53
  can probably confess to the confusion that exists and
• 1:46:57
  thermodynamics. I probably contribute a great
• 1:47:01
  contribution to do adding to that confusion.
• 1:47:05
  But the what we have heard today are and I've got to, I like to
• 1:47:14
  use colorful language. So I'm very careful and I'm
• 1:47:16
  told, I can't do that here. But But but I'm going to have to
• 1:47:20
  leave it with this that I'm certainly glad.
• 1:47:22
  I don't have to step in something.
• 1:47:27
  Thank you. This question will be posed to
• 1:47:33
  your table now evolutionary theory predicts that mankind
• 1:47:38
  will continue to evolve. How long in your estimation,
• 1:47:41
  will it take for a distinct new species of humans to emerge?
• 1:47:44
  In other words, how long will it take for there to be two or more
• 1:47:47
  incompatible species of humans and let me add something to
• 1:47:50
  that? Where do you foresee this going?
• 1:47:53
  The evolution of humans. I can tell you, one thing will
• 1:48:00
  never have a war because it's been a disagreement on science.
• 1:48:06
  What we will have is people advancing because we've learned
• 1:48:12
  how to live with each other. If we don't do that, we're not
• 1:48:16
  going to advance at all. We have certain things that are
• 1:48:23
  going to take place with every species.
• 1:48:26
  If we go back and look how species of evolved over time, we
• 1:48:32
  can see that almost everything that's ever lived on this This
• 1:48:35
  planet is extinct. Evolution is a really
• 1:48:42
  inefficient situation. Well, as a matter of fact, the
• 1:48:47
  intelligent designers about as inefficient as you can get.
• 1:48:51
  Do you know how many kids die every year because they choked
• 1:48:55
  to death because our throat in our windpipe or so close
• 1:49:00
  together. I mean, whoever designed that
• 1:49:03
  first year engineering student could do better than that.
• 1:49:07
  Just think how many people in this audience?
• 1:49:09
  Probably got all kinds of Hang-Ups.
• 1:49:11
  We've got a system that gets rid of our waste material right
• 1:49:14
  needed, a system that we knew we reproduce with.
• 1:49:17
  I mean, you know, there's all kinds of animals have got better
• 1:49:20
  reproductive systems and that they don't, you know, that the
• 1:49:23
  intelligent designer designed a snail that has his anus right
• 1:49:26
  above his mouth come on who did that?
• 1:49:29
  We can explain those things by looking at Evolution you can't
• 1:49:33
  explain those things by looking at a designer to designer did a
• 1:49:36
  terrible job on the I people have eye problems because the
• 1:49:41
  Nerves in the corner in the in terms in the retina and the
• 1:49:44
  wrong place and it happened that way because that was the only
• 1:49:49
  thing Evolution had to work with.
• 1:49:51
  There's all kinds of problems with design in the world has all
• 1:49:54
  kinds of problems with with Evolution.
• 1:49:57
  And what happens is we try to correct them.
• 1:50:00
  Now, what's going to happen to us in the future?
• 1:50:02
  It'll depend on us. I mean, I like the question
• 1:50:07
  because what it involves is ecology involves It involves
• 1:50:12
  saving the planet involves, you know, under what it involves is
• 1:50:16
  understanding evolution. You know, that one of these
• 1:50:23
  textbooks, I thinks this one, it says it says in it, do not worry
• 1:50:27
  about the future because God is going to kill all of us.
• 1:50:34
  Soon, they say almost word for word.
• 1:50:42
  What I said in there is do not give your life for evolution
• 1:50:47
  because I mean, do not give your life for environment because the
• 1:50:51
  environment will be destroyed by the Lord.
• 1:50:55
  You know. Well if you believe that then I
• 1:50:57
  guess you don't need to worry about the ecology.
• 1:50:59
  I guess you don't need to worry about the environment but I
• 1:51:01
  don't Leave that and I think that we should worry about the
• 1:51:04
  environment. I think we should worry about
• 1:51:06
  the future of our kids. I think we should worry about
• 1:51:09
  what's going on and I think we should understand Evolution so
• 1:51:12
  that we can stay healthy when we're doing it.
• 1:51:14
  We need to understand our immune systems.
• 1:51:16
  We under need to understand it bacteria.
• 1:51:18
  Change in a moment's notice we under meet a need to understand
• 1:51:21
  that high deformed animals can't change quickly and we're highly
• 1:51:26
  formed animal, we evolve really slowly bacteria?
• 1:51:31
  Far very rapidly. Lee insects can evolve certain
• 1:51:35
  things in just a matter of a few months.
• 1:51:38
  We're we have all slowly. We need to understand what's
• 1:51:42
  going on with our DNA. We need to understand what's
• 1:51:44
  going on with the DNA of every plant and animal that lives on
• 1:51:48
  this planet, that's how we survive.
• 1:51:50
  And if we don't do that, we may not survive.
• 1:51:55
  It's a, it's a, it's that simple.
• 1:51:58
  Hey, actually we need, we need to use our brains.
• 1:52:04
  We cannot be in the situation where we say, here's a book
• 1:52:09
  that's got all the answers in it.
• 1:52:11
  We don't need to know anything new.
• 1:52:14
  When my father talked to me, when I was a boy and he said,
• 1:52:17
  when you read a book, be sure to look in the back of it and see
• 1:52:20
  if there's a good bibliography, if there's not a good
• 1:52:23
  bibliography in there, It may be that the things in that book
• 1:52:27
  aren't true and then he had me a Bible and I look for the
• 1:52:32
  bibliography and there wasn't one.
• 1:52:35
  That's all I got to say. Well, I just kind of wonder
• 1:52:44
  whether there's any kind of a reason to assume that Evolution
• 1:52:49
  would necessarily lead to some kind of proliferation of one
• 1:52:52
  particular species. That's, that's sort of
• 1:52:56
  assumption the question that I don't really quite comprehend,
• 1:53:00
  why it makes that I think if we look back, we know that the well
• 1:53:04
  coming from And let us understand that some comments
• 1:53:08
  have been that. The Neanderthal does not share
• 1:53:12
  our genes that. Is that are you up on that?
• 1:53:16
  That that is. We had a proliferated species.
• 1:53:19
  They also Earth all was also human related and there's every
• 1:53:23
  indication that chimpanzees off the same branch in some way or
• 1:53:27
  other because they have an intelligence of a five-year-old
• 1:53:29
  and are capable of manipulating language and communicating with
• 1:53:33
  us. So we're during this world
• 1:53:35
  already with quite a few different species that are
• 1:53:40
  awfully close to us. Let me also mention the dolphin
• 1:53:43
  their stories that go back all the way to Roman times of
• 1:53:46
  cooperation between human and dolphin.
• 1:53:49
  So if we're talking about intelligent siblings, I suppose
• 1:53:57
  on this planet, there may be plenty already.
• 1:54:00
  We don't have to wait for that to develop beyond that.
• 1:54:03
  I don't know what the future will bring.
• 1:54:05
  NG. And I think that is what
• 1:54:08
  characterizes scientific mentality is that you are
• 1:54:12
  willing to live with uncertainty yet.
• 1:54:16
  Don't know it all. That's why you're motivated to
• 1:54:19
  learn more. And I quite agree with that,
• 1:54:23
  with all the answers in one book, that's very authoritarian.
• 1:54:27
  Undemocratic, kind of thinking, one of the most frequent since
• 1:54:33
  our colleague here, mentioned out of Hitler, one of the most
• 1:54:36
  frequent words in out of hitters Mound.
• 1:54:38
  My mouth was God and Divine Providence, therein lies
• 1:54:44
  dangerous. North are Terrian kind of
• 1:54:46
  thinking that is not healthy. All right, that's interesting.
• 1:55:01
  I don't want to step in much of that either myself, how long
• 1:55:05
  will it take for us to evolve into a new species?
• 1:55:08
  Don't nothing ever evolves into any news, Bo I had to use word
• 1:55:11
  species, so nothing ever evolves into a new kind.
• 1:55:13
  Nobody's ever observed, anything change to a different kind,
• 1:55:17
  bacteria are still bacteria. If they become resistant to a
• 1:55:20
  drug it's because they lost the locking mechanism on the
• 1:55:23
  ribosome. So the back antibiotic can't
• 1:55:25
  lock on. It's no different than somebody
• 1:55:27
  handcuffing everybody. Hauling them off to jail to kill
• 1:55:29
  him but you don't have any arms so they can't handcuff you.
• 1:55:32
  So you survived. Wow, beneficial mutation.
• 1:55:36
  Well, it might be for the moment but it's not any new
• 1:55:38
  information, bacteria, don't evolve into something else, they
• 1:55:41
  lose information, they're resistant to a particular drug
• 1:55:44
  for a short time, but then you put them back in the population,
• 1:55:46
  a regular bacteria and their inferior.
• 1:55:49
  Nothing ever did bacteria. Are still bacteria For Heaven's
• 1:55:51
  Sake. It's not example of evolution.
• 1:55:52
  Okay, we're going to evolve how to get along people choke
• 1:55:56
  because of poor design. How many of you happen to like
• 1:55:58
  the design of your esophagus and your trachea?
• 1:56:01
  I use mine. I've been using it for years,
• 1:56:04
  okay? Works fine okay.
• 1:56:06
  Thus the the purpose of life is to save the planet and to
• 1:56:10
  understand Evolution, let's get more Government funding.
• 1:56:14
  So we can teach more of this stuff.
• 1:56:15
  So more kids can not only step in a bit while the winner here,
• 1:56:18
  he said the eye II is a poor design.
• 1:56:20
  Well now let's see about that. Charles Darwin said to suppose
• 1:56:24
  that the I could have been formed by natural selection,
• 1:56:27
  seems I freely confess absurd? Okay, yeah, he goes on for four
• 1:56:30
  pages after that. And tell us how we think it
• 1:56:32
  happened. The retina of your eyes about
• 1:56:34
  one square inch. It has 137 million,
• 1:56:36
  light-sensitive cells wired to the brain.
• 1:56:39
  I've done a huge amount of electrical wiring in my
• 1:56:41
  lifetime. I cannot imagine hooking up, 137
• 1:56:43
  million Connections in one square inch my heavenly father,
• 1:56:46
  did it and it works pretty good at work till a couple years ago
• 1:56:48
  had to get these Thanks. Okay.
• 1:56:50
  Because that's an example of second law of Thermodynamics, by
• 1:56:52
  the way Decay. Now, I debated an atheist in
• 1:56:55
  Buckley, Ed buckler, Buckner in New York.
• 1:56:57
  He said the eye is poorly designed.
• 1:56:59
  Like I believe I just heard a few moments ago, it's a poor
• 1:57:01
  design. He said the retina is in front.
• 1:57:04
  The blood vessels are in front of the retina so they block part
• 1:57:06
  of the light coming in. He said, yeah octopus has a much
• 1:57:09
  better. I because their blood vessels
• 1:57:10
  are behind the retina, that's proof of evolution because of
• 1:57:13
  poor design. I said we live in the air.
• 1:57:18
  Okay. Air is a poor insulator for UV
• 1:57:20
  light. Your body needs the blood
• 1:57:22
  vessels in front of the retina because that's your last defense
• 1:57:24
  against UV light. Octopus live in the water tank,
• 1:57:30
  water blocks UV light. They don't need their blood
• 1:57:32
  vessels in front. Now, if you want to swap eyes
• 1:57:35
  with an octopus, you just go ahead and enjoy yourself but
• 1:57:37
  you're going to be blind in a few days.
• 1:57:38
  Okay. Their argument from poor design
• 1:57:41
  is like saying, well God wouldn't do it this way.
• 1:57:43
  Therefore, it must have evolved. That's allows the argument for
• 1:57:46
  evolution. That's a proof.
• 1:57:49
  Evidence. That's an Evidence to me that we
• 1:57:50
  were originally perfectly designed and where the, who you
• 1:57:53
  all of Humanity's just plain falling apart folks.
• 1:57:55
  And yes, God is going to have to step in here pretty soon.
• 1:57:57
  We're going to all kill ourselves.
• 1:57:58
  Okay, thank you so much. Professors rise, big sleeper,
• 1:58:09
  and Strayer in the entrance of time seeing that we have left
• 1:58:13
  time for a 10 minute closing statement for each side.
• 1:58:17
  Let's go ahead and present those now.
• 1:58:19
  Would you please go ahead? Thank you.
• 1:58:25
  Okay. This is this is my closing,
• 1:58:27
  right? Yes, okay, good.
• 1:58:32
  Well, this is this has been an interesting discussion that
• 1:58:36
  we've had. I wonder how we have all changed
• 1:58:44
  in our minds and thinking, and knowledge of what we have talked
• 1:58:49
  about, we've talked about some good information.
• 1:58:54
  Ian, I've heard some bad information.
• 1:59:00
  I happen to believe in the scientific method.
• 1:59:06
  Without the scientific method, we have no defense of sinking
• 1:59:15
  into ignorance and despair and to people who do not understand
• 1:59:24
  the things that have been accumulated for science.
• 1:59:29
  We are we are cursed to do. Ignorance and ignore.
• 1:59:35
  And and what I would, what I will repeat Voodoo science that
• 1:59:41
  people will believe in Crazy kinds of things and we see those
• 1:59:48
  kind of things going on. In people today, the one the one
• 1:59:58
  thing that we have is that we have knowledge and we have a way
• 2:00:04
  of testing knowledge and putting to the test of a number of
• 2:00:11
  people essentially to evaluate in agree.
• 2:00:15
  In what is as correct as we possibly can, if we have nothing
• 2:00:22
  Then we are in Despair and and we have we have nothing that we
• 2:00:28
  can possibly survive. I don't think that is true.
• 2:00:32
  I think the scientific method is is a wonderful thing and I think
• 2:00:38
  it I think we the discussion we've had today has proved that
• 2:00:44
  that it is correct. When you die?
• 2:00:53
  The world is not going to change.
• 2:00:57
  The world will stop because you world is in your head all along
• 2:01:04
  you have no direct contact with the world out there.
• 2:01:09
  You have no immediate knowledge of the world.
• 2:01:11
  Only mythology, halves immediate knowledge through your senses
• 2:01:15
  for that reason, you work with Frameworks, trying to understand
• 2:01:23
  theoretical Frameworks, trying to understand what's going on
• 2:01:25
  out there. You're trying to make ten years
• 2:01:29
  predictions about what you think the next event will be.
• 2:01:33
  I did the Ten Years prediction doesn't work out that you're
• 2:01:36
  going to overturn. The hypothesis to done evolutis
• 2:01:41
  know, it is theoretical framework long as new
• 2:01:45
  information. We're going to be working with
• 2:01:49
  it. When we have an overwhelming
• 2:01:51
  evidence that doesn't fit, then the scientific Community will be
• 2:01:55
  just as comfortable overturning that and altering it to
• 2:01:58
  something different and it's a fairly simple system.
• 2:02:03
  That's why it works. What we've been shown today is
• 2:02:07
  that we should throw that At out, replace it with a spiritual
• 2:02:12
  being where we don't have any idea how it is interacting with
• 2:02:16
  the material world and that Material World, which we can't
• 2:02:19
  really understand either and in that complicated system were
• 2:02:22
  supposed to work scientifically. I suppose the next time you go
• 2:02:26
  to the physician and you have some kind of a pain will be
• 2:02:29
  pointed out to you. It's probably some Little Rock
• 2:02:31
  that God forgot there. Doesn't make any sense to me.
• 2:02:37
  And what I want to say to conclude here at the beginning,
• 2:02:43
  dr. Hovind offered a general ethical
• 2:02:46
  principle and that is that we have an inheritance of sin.
• 2:02:52
  I find it abhorrent. I find that absolutely
• 2:02:55
  incredible to even believe that anybody who has seen a baby and
• 2:03:00
  as holding as in your arms, would you really believe that
• 2:03:03
  that is Hellbound that then has inherited sin.
• 2:03:10
  It's a most objectionable concept that is being carried
• 2:03:14
  around here in the name of religion.
• 2:03:19
  And for that reason I also believe that we really do have a
• 2:03:21
  very clear-cut science ever because evolution is
• 2:03:25
  self-correcting. It is accumulating data that
• 2:03:28
  it's checking each other, it has the open scientific Community,
• 2:03:31
  exchanging ideas with each other checking on each other and not
• 2:03:35
  some kind of an authoritative system that is loaded down on
• 2:03:39
  us. Where we have no possibly of
• 2:03:41
  questioning. The one is democracy, the
• 2:03:44
  scientific Community. The other is a form of
• 2:03:47
  authoritarianism that I find very objectionable.
• 2:03:58
  I like to quote from this creationist book for my closing.
• 2:04:02
  There's a section in here 342. It says scientific truths
• 2:04:07
  revealed in the Bible. Many important scientific truths
• 2:04:10
  revealed in the Bible, thousands of years before they were
• 2:04:12
  discovered by modern scientists, and then it lists several of
• 2:04:16
  them. One of them has to do with the
• 2:04:19
  Earth rotating on its axis. Axis and that's, you know, the
• 2:04:22
  6-day thing. Another one has to do with the
• 2:04:24
  Earth running down the second law of Thermodynamics in there.
• 2:04:26
  Some stuff about blood and water that kind of stuff.
• 2:04:29
  But anyway here is the proof from the Bible.
• 2:04:33
  That the Earth rotates on its axis.
• 2:04:35
  It says, the Tells these students to take check Luke 17
• 2:04:39
  31 through 34, In that day, he would shall be upon the Housetop
• 2:04:47
  and his stuff in the house. Let him not come down and take
• 2:04:50
  it away. And he that is in the field.
• 2:04:53
  Let him likewise not return back.
• 2:04:56
  Remember, Lot's wife who sell versus seek to save his life,
• 2:05:00
  shall lose it and whosoever shall lose his life, shall
• 2:05:04
  preserve. It.
• 2:05:06
  I tell you when the night there shall be two, men in one bed and
• 2:05:09
  one shall be taken and the other Shelby left.
• 2:05:13
  I did not understand that I called a Becca.
• 2:05:17
  I said, what does that mean? Well, you check with the
• 2:05:20
  teachers manual to find out what that means and they came they
• 2:05:23
  went right and they came back. They said we're sorry that's not
• 2:05:26
  mentioned in the teachers manual.
• 2:05:28
  I said well you know, is it a possibility is of misprint they
• 2:05:33
  took that as an insult and said no it's not a possibility in
• 2:05:36
  Click, they hung up. The second one.
• 2:05:42
  The universe is running down. To find out the proof from the
• 2:05:47
  Bible of the universe is running down.
• 2:05:49
  You go to Isaiah 51, 6. And it says, lift up your eyes
• 2:05:54
  to the heavens and look upon the Earth beneath or the heavens
• 2:05:57
  shall vanish away, like smoke in the Earth shall wax old, like a
• 2:06:01
  garment and neither dwell within shall die in like manner.
• 2:06:05
  But my salvation shall be forever.
• 2:06:07
  It, my righteousness shall not be abolished.
• 2:06:11
  I didn't understand that either. I hope the Applause means that
• 2:06:18
  you understood that that has something to do with the second
• 2:06:21
  law of Thermodynamics in. Not anyway my anyway, I decided
• 2:06:29
  to take a quote from one of the best-known.
• 2:06:34
  Creationist in the country. Explaining to me work to all of
• 2:06:40
  us. Why all these colleges all over
• 2:06:43
  the world? Do not accept creationism and
• 2:06:48
  here's the quote it's from a fellow named can't hold Vine and
• 2:06:53
  it came from the source is I got it from the internet, the young
• 2:06:56
  masking, the false religion of evolution.
• 2:07:00
  Here's his quote, there is definitely a conspiracy but I
• 2:07:03
  don't think it said a human conspiracy.
• 2:07:06
  I don't believe that there's A smoke-filled rooms were groups
• 2:07:09
  of men, get together and decide to teach Evolution and all the
• 2:07:11
  schools I believe, is a much higher level.
• 2:07:14
  I believe it is a satanic conspiracy.
• 2:07:18
  The reason, these different people come to the same
• 2:07:21
  conclusions is not because they all met together is because they
• 2:07:25
  all work for the devil. I think that was one of the most
• 2:07:40
  arrogant statements I've ever read in my life.
• 2:07:51
  And if we're going to use the Bible for science, we've got
• 2:07:57
  some tough things to explain. What about the cockatrice is
• 2:08:01
  mentioned? Four times in the Bible, it's a
• 2:08:04
  chicken, a rooster that lays poison eggs that can fly and
• 2:08:08
  spits fire. The what are we going to do
• 2:08:11
  about dragons being mentioned 17?
• 2:08:14
  Times in the Bible, where you going where you going to do
• 2:08:17
  about unicorns or mentioned eight times in the Bible?
• 2:08:22
  I want to tell you what we have, never found a fossil of a
• 2:08:24
  unicorn, wouldn't it be wonderful if we did, then you
• 2:08:29
  people there something to part 4?
• 2:08:31
  Okay, thank you. All right.
• 2:08:39
  Well, first, I need to say fellas.
• 2:08:41
  I thank you so much for doing this.
• 2:08:43
  These students get it. At nine months out of the Year
• 2:08:45
  teaching on Evolution it's about time they get a couple hours on
• 2:08:48
  at least to hear a conflict between creation and evolution
• 2:08:51
  and I will be glad to come back at my expense anytime now.
• 2:08:57
  People say ah creationist win the debates because they have
• 2:09:00
  you know better visuals okay? I don't use any tax dollars to
• 2:09:04
  buy my visuals. You guys got unlimited funding
• 2:09:06
  to buy stuff, here, get some better visuals.
• 2:09:07
  Don't blame me. People say well creationist win
• 2:09:09
  because they have a dumb audience, the dog people are
• 2:09:11
  dumb if they believe in creation, that's the implication
• 2:09:14
  over and over people believe because we need more money to
• 2:09:17
  teach Evolution. That's why it's a lack of
• 2:09:19
  funding. That's why we're losing.
• 2:09:20
  These debates know, maybe you're losing the debates because
• 2:09:24
  you're wrong. I'm right.
• 2:09:27
  Okay. Several points were brought up
• 2:09:32
  and I'll use a few of my minutes for this.
• 2:09:33
  And then I want to give a quick closing here.
• 2:09:36
  I'm in favor of the scientific method You develop a theory?
• 2:09:39
  You've gather facts to support your theory.
• 2:09:41
  If you can't find any facts you throw the theory away.
• 2:09:43
  Evolution would have been thrown away a long time ago.
• 2:09:45
  Except they don't have a replacement Theory other than
• 2:09:48
  maybe somebody designed it. Oh they don't want that one.
• 2:09:53
  He mentioned, he doesn't believe about inherent sin.
• 2:09:58
  Well, I happen to have had three kids and two grandkids, one
• 2:10:01
  more. Do I need a?
• 2:10:02
  We didn't teach any of them to lie or cheat or steal but they
• 2:10:07
  all just kind of did it automatically.
• 2:10:09
  How many of you noticed the same thing with your kids when you're
• 2:10:11
  raising them? Okay, yes I think it's quite
• 2:10:13
  obvious to anybody. That's raised any kids.
• 2:10:15
  There is an inherent sin nature. If you think man is inherently
• 2:10:19
  good, you're living in la-la land?
• 2:10:21
  Okay man is inherently. Bad.
• 2:10:23
  Okay. And he needs a savior, you said
• 2:10:26
  you don't want an authoritative system that's very objectionable
• 2:10:29
  to you. That is my entire point.
• 2:10:33
  The reason people reject the creation stories because they
• 2:10:35
  don't want somebody telling them what to do.
• 2:10:37
  The Bible says, in the last days scoffers would come.
• 2:10:40
  That would be willingly. Ignorant of the creation.
• 2:10:43
  And the flood 2nd, Peter chapter 3, read it for yourself, they're
• 2:10:46
  willingly ignorant of the creation because that creation
• 2:10:49
  event tells us, God created this place, which means Means he owns
• 2:10:53
  it which means he makes the rules.
• 2:10:55
  They don't want to admit, there was a flood because that flood
• 2:10:58
  indicates, God has the authority to judge his creation.
• 2:11:02
  They just don't want to admit that.
• 2:11:03
  I cover this very thoroughly, by the way, on seminar part 2, you
• 2:11:06
  might want to watch that one and the right there out there and
• 2:11:08
  buy stuff, by the way, my stuff not copyrighted, you can get it,
• 2:11:10
  copy it, send back the originals and get your money back.
• 2:11:12
  That's always been our policy. So, yes, I can understand why
• 2:11:15
  the idea of an authoritarian, you know, Bible is objectionable
• 2:11:19
  to some people because that Bible says, Thou shalt not do Do
• 2:11:22
  you know quite a few things? Okay.
• 2:11:24
  So yeah, I do understand, the Bible says, the fool has said in
• 2:11:27
  his heart, there is no God. I think the evidence for a
• 2:11:31
  designer is so obvious all around us if you're walking
• 2:11:35
  through the woods and you find a painting hanging on the tree and
• 2:11:38
  you see no Footprints, you see? No people You still conclude,
• 2:11:42
  there was a painter. If you're walking through the
• 2:11:44
  woods and you find a building and you see no Footprints, you
• 2:11:47
  see, no people you still conclude there was a builder
• 2:11:50
  when you see a watch that's proof of a watchmaker.
• 2:11:52
  When you see a creation that's proof of a Creator, whether you
• 2:11:55
  ever meet him or not, they're just had to be one.
• 2:11:57
  Now, who is it? Is it Allah or Buddha, or
• 2:11:59
  Jehovah? Well, that's a different set of
• 2:12:00
  arguments, but the fact is, there must have been a designer.
• 2:12:03
  Whoever he was, they had to be a designer.
• 2:12:05
  We can argue later about which one's right, okay.
• 2:12:07
  But there had to be people object to that.
• 2:12:10
  You said, what does Luke? In Luke was telling them that in
• 2:12:12
  that day, some will be in the field and some will be in bed.
• 2:12:17
  That's proof. The world is round.
• 2:12:19
  It's dark on one side. That's evidence right there, so
• 2:12:22
  I can explain in a while back. I couldn't explain it but that's
• 2:12:24
  pretty obvious to me now, hang on what happened here.
• 2:12:28
  Okay. I visited Wayne Strickland's
• 2:12:34
  Tombstone. I don't know if the other dates
• 2:12:36
  filled in yet or not. It's been a couple years since
• 2:12:37
  I've been there, but the date was empty.
• 2:12:38
  When I was there, he said, he's an atheist.
• 2:12:41
  Bible says, the fool has said in his heart, there is no God, God
• 2:12:43
  does not believe in atheists, actually, I don't either.
• 2:12:47
  Okay, you're going to die. One of these days, I'm going to
• 2:12:50
  die. And I felt, as I didn't drive
• 2:12:51
  all the way over here and leave my gorgeous wife because I like
• 2:12:53
  being gone, okay, I didn't come to win an argument.
• 2:12:57
  I came to win, you over. Honestly, I would like to see
• 2:13:01
  you saved going to heaven. Maybe you think you are, I don't
• 2:13:03
  know. But if you think God used
• 2:13:04
  Evolution, you have the wrong God.
• 2:13:06
  Okay. I know you're right all kinds of
• 2:13:08
  articles for the atheist magazine according to your bio
• 2:13:11
  here Jim and and I think that people run from God.
• 2:13:14
  People can't find God for the same reason.
• 2:13:16
  A thief. Can't find a policeman.
• 2:13:25
  I sacrifice my time to travel and to do this because I'm
• 2:13:30
  concerned that people are actually dying and going to
• 2:13:32
  hell. I'm really concerned that that
• 2:13:34
  really happens. I believe the Bible teaches that
• 2:13:36
  I believe that's literally true. I believe, we were designed for
• 2:13:38
  a purpose and God loves each of us.
• 2:13:41
  He hates our sin Bible says, he's angry with the wicked.
• 2:13:45
  Every day. God hates our sin, but he loves
• 2:13:48
  us, and we are inherently sinful, and we're going to die.
• 2:13:52
  All of us are going to die. Die, and you're going to be dead
• 2:13:54
  for a really, really long time. Okay.
• 2:13:58
  George Washington died, 205 years ago, and he is still dead.
• 2:14:05
  I don't care how long you live. You're going to be dead longer
• 2:14:07
  than that and you better think about that long and hard.
• 2:14:11
  You better be really positive. You're right on this one.
• 2:14:14
  God made this world. He owns it.
• 2:14:15
  He makes the rules, and we are guilty of breaking his rules,
• 2:14:18
  so, rather than admit, we've broken his Rule.
• 2:14:20
  People say, well, there is no God, we got her by Evolution,
• 2:14:22
  which means the course. There are no rules.
• 2:14:24
  If evolution is true, there are no rules.
• 2:14:26
  I asked the question at the beginning.
• 2:14:27
  I never got an answer. If evolution is true.
• 2:14:30
  How do we tell right from wrong? How do we tell right from wrong?
• 2:14:35
  God told us very clearly, Thou shalt not bear false, witness
• 2:14:38
  don't lie? We've all lied don't steal.
• 2:14:42
  We've stolen things. We broke his Commandments, folks
• 2:14:46
  were guilty period, which means we're going to be punished or
• 2:14:49
  you got to find a substitute. And that's where Jesus comes in
• 2:14:52
  the god that made. This world also came down and
• 2:14:55
  said, look, you blew it, your all Sinners.
• 2:14:56
  You're all going to hell. However, I still love you and I
• 2:14:58
  still want to forgive you. I'll even die and take your
• 2:15:01
  place. You can't beat a deal.
• 2:15:03
  Like that. Now Romans chapter 1 Romans
• 2:15:11
  chapter 1 gives us a clear progression and I would
• 2:15:14
  recommend every atheist or evolutionist or agnostic, read
• 2:15:17
  Romans chapter 1 very carefully. Because that which may be known
• 2:15:22
  of God, he may be known, okay? You may know things about him,
• 2:15:25
  you can learn about God, that, which may be known is Manifest
• 2:15:28
  in them for God, hath shewed, it unto them, you know, there's a
• 2:15:32
  designer okay. I don't care about all your
• 2:15:34
  arguments you know somebody made this place the invisible things
• 2:15:37
  of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being
• 2:15:41
  understood by the things that are made even his eternal power
• 2:15:43
  and godhead so they are without excuse Judgement Day You're just
• 2:15:47
  flat seriously in trouble, okay. Because then when they knew God,
• 2:15:51
  they glorified him not as God, neither we're thankful but
• 2:15:53
  became vain in their imaginations and their foolish
• 2:15:55
  heart was darkened professing themselves to be wise.
• 2:16:00
  They became fools and changed the glory of the uncorruptible
• 2:16:03
  god into an image made like to corruptible, man, and birds and
• 2:16:06
  four-footed beasts and creeping things, they worship the
• 2:16:08
  creation. That's what evolution is all
• 2:16:10
  about. Save The Planet.
• 2:16:12
  Wherefore God gave them up to uncleanness through their own
• 2:16:15
  lusts to dishonor, their own hearts and dishonour their own
• 2:16:17
  bodies between them. He changed the truth of God into
• 2:16:19
  oh Ally and worship, served in worshipped worshipped and served
• 2:16:23
  the creature more than the Creator.
• 2:16:26
  I mean to them, the animals are more important.
• 2:16:28
  Look, I like animals, I take care of the animals.
• 2:16:30
  We have around our place and I think Christians take care of
• 2:16:33
  their things. But folks, this whole concept of
• 2:16:35
  nature is all there is. We got to save the planet.
• 2:16:38
  I don't pollute. I try hard not to.
• 2:16:40
  I work very hard to keep our place clean and we do very good
• 2:16:42
  job. I think you can come visit
• 2:16:44
  Pensacola Florida, but that's not that's not the ultimate goal
• 2:16:47
  of life. Bible says, God gave them up.
• 2:16:51
  You follow this trend, they don't want God telling them what
• 2:16:53
  to do, so God gives up on him, okay?
• 2:16:55
  You do what you want and they get turned over to vile
• 2:16:58
  affections. That's the way it always.
• 2:16:59
  Goes it descends. You can read the rest of the
• 2:17:00
  chapter goes right into homosexuality.
• 2:17:02
  By the way, if your job is to pass on your genes and your the
• 2:17:05
  fittest, well, they're not the fittest.
• 2:17:07
  That's for sure. They're not passing on any
• 2:17:09
  genes. Anybody that talks like that?
• 2:17:12
  Spend a long time on that one but God is going to judge this
• 2:17:14
  planet. He tells us he's going to have
• 2:17:16
  to because man has rejected him now. they profess them, they
• 2:17:19
  thought they were wise, they became fools and if you believe
• 2:17:21
  your grandpa was a rock, you're a fool Some of my ancestors
• 2:17:25
  probably swung by their necks. Okay.
• 2:17:27
  But none of them swung by their tails.
• 2:17:29
  Now if you think your grandpa was a monkey, I think you're
• 2:17:32
  still a fool but that's okay. You have the right to believe
• 2:17:34
  that you do not, however, have the right to use tax dollars to
• 2:17:37
  teach that fairy tale in a public university at taxpayer
• 2:17:39
  expense. I think Evolution should be
• 2:17:41
  taught in private schools at private expense.
• 2:17:43
  Now, you guys are not the enemy. I don't I love you.
• 2:17:46
  I don't want to help you, okay? I think you're deceived and it's
• 2:17:49
  worse that you're deceiving others.
• 2:17:50
  If you're teaching this stuff, now there are people here
• 2:17:53
  tonight with yellow shirts on if you And up, if you would, you're
• 2:17:55
  supposed to be standing up with the yellow shirt.
• 2:17:56
  You know, who you are. These people right here are
• 2:17:58
  willing to talk to you and show you how you can become a
• 2:18:00
  Christian and go to heaven. Okay?
• 2:18:02
  That's why I do this. I want to convert people.
• 2:18:04
  Get them saved. That's why I'm here.
• 2:18:05
  Okay. I think the scientific evidence
• 2:18:07
  is on our side. I think.
• 2:18:08
  I'm right. I think I won the debate
• 2:18:09
  tonight, actually. But it's not because I'm smart,
• 2:18:12
  it's because I'm right. And God loves you.
• 2:18:14
  He wants to save you and forgive you see, one of these folks
• 2:18:15
  afterwards, we'll be glad to help any way we can.
• 2:18:17
  Thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this
• 2:18:21
  video series on creation Evolution and dinosaurs much
• 2:18:24
  more important though than knowing all the truth.
• 2:18:26
  And facts about science is to know the truth about whether
• 2:18:29
  you're going to heaven or not. If you've never trusted Christ
• 2:18:31
  as your savior, let me explain quickly.
• 2:18:34
  What you need to do. To go to heaven.
• 2:18:36
  The Bible says, we're all Sinners, we've all broken.
• 2:18:38
  God's laws, we've disobeyed the Creator.
• 2:18:41
  We've we've done, wicked things. We're Sinners.
• 2:18:44
  Some are worse than others, at least in Man's eyes, but we've
• 2:18:47
  all broken God's laws. And the Bible says you have to
• 2:18:49
  repent Ain't the word repent means to turn it.
• 2:18:52
  Actually means two things to turn from your sin and to turn
• 2:18:54
  to God. God's looking for a change in
• 2:18:57
  your attitude, where you say, Lord, I don't want to do wrong
• 2:18:59
  anymore. I'm sorry, I've offended you, I
• 2:19:01
  want to do, right? And you turn from sin and you
• 2:19:04
  turn to God and say, God would you please forgive me?
• 2:19:07
  Would you save me? The Bible says, in Romans 3:23
• 2:19:11
  that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
• 2:19:14
  You need to admit, you're a sinner number 2.
• 2:19:16
  The Bible says, in Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death.
• 2:19:20
  We deserve to die and go to hell because of our sin, but Jesus
• 2:19:25
  died for you. He loves you.
• 2:19:26
  He wants you to come to heaven and anybody that will ask him
• 2:19:29
  for the free salvation, God will give you the gift of eternal
• 2:19:32
  life. It says in Romans 6:23, it's a
• 2:19:34
  free gift. And it says in Romans chapter 10
• 2:19:37
  and verse 13 whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
• 2:19:40
  shall be saved. If you would just call and say,
• 2:19:42
  Lord, I'm a sinner. Would you please forgive me and
• 2:19:45
  ask him. He will give you that free gift
• 2:19:47
  of eternal life. Why don't you just pray with me,
• 2:19:50
  right? Right now and you could receive
• 2:19:51
  Christ as your savior. There's no magic words.
• 2:19:53
  God's looking at your heart. But if you could say this and
• 2:19:55
  mean it, God would forgive you just say, dear, Lord, Jesus.
• 2:19:59
  I know that I'm a sinner. I've broken your loss.
• 2:20:02
  I'm sorry. Please.
• 2:20:03
  Forgive me please. Apply your blood to my account.
• 2:20:06
  Forgive my sins, and take me to heaven in Jesus name.
• 2:20:10
  Amen. Bible says, if you call upon the
• 2:20:12
  Lord, you shall be saved. So, if you've asked the Lord to
• 2:20:15
  save you, he promised he'd save you.
• 2:20:17
  Now, your job is to grow. Read your Bible pray.
• 2:20:20
  They get involved in a good bible-believing church and begin
• 2:20:22
  to grow to be a good Christian. Thank you so much.
• 2:20:25
  Call her, right? If we can be any help at all,
• 2:20:26
  would be glad to help.