Latest / Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger / Fleur’s World

Transcript

Fleur’s World · Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Q&A.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm Jay Nordlinger, coming to you from the Salzburg Festival in Austria.
0:07
We're sitting outside on a beautiful day,
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overlooking kind of a Sound of Music style landscape.
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SPEAKER_01: And when I say we, I mean I am sitting with Fleur Barron, the singer.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: She's a mezzo soprano.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Where is she from?
0:21
SPEAKER_01: We can get into that.
0:23
At any rate,
0:24
she this summer is making her debut at the Salzburg Festival.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: She has sung all over the world or in a great many places.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: And Fleur, thank you so much.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to be with you.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jay.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: It's great to have a chat and welcome everybody listening.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: People are obsessed with identity these days.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Who am I and who is she and so on.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: You've had quite a background.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Born one place, raised in other places, schooled in other places.
0:55
Do you mind giving us a little auto bio if you're not sick of
0:58
doing so in so many interviews?
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Are you tired of having to account for yourself in this way?
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Not really.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I suppose for me, my identity is just what it is.
1:08
So I don't feel any confusion around it,
1:10
but maybe it's confusing to listen to.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: But the long and short of it is I was born in Northern Ireland,
1:16
SPEAKER_00: was there for a year,
1:18
SPEAKER_00: and then decamped to Hong Kong.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: And I spent my formative years there.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: And then in high school, we moved to New York.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: And I stayed there until 2019, actually.
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SPEAKER_00: So
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Perhaps it's not as complicated as it sounds in my head.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we moved around a lot for my dad's job.
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SPEAKER_00: He was a war correspondent for the BBC.
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SPEAKER_00: So that's why we had various bases.
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SPEAKER_00: And then once I got to New York, I did high school, college.
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SPEAKER_00: I went to Columbia University.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: I then did my master's at Manhattan School of Music.
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And then I hung around in the States for young artist training
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for a few years and
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SPEAKER_00: then decided it was time to move to Europe.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: to pursue my professional dreams and aspirations.
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SPEAKER_00: And I really wanted to be near some sort of family.
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SPEAKER_00: And my mother is from Singapore, and her whole family is still in Asia.
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SPEAKER_00: And my dad was British, and his family is all in the UK.
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SPEAKER_00: So I thought,
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SPEAKER_00: okay,
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SPEAKER_00: great,
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SPEAKER_00: I'll move to London,
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SPEAKER_00: then I'm kind of a train ride away from my family.
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SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
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SPEAKER_01: You grew up hearing different languages around you, I'm sure.
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SPEAKER_01: You must have absorbed some of them.
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SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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I mean,
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I was fortunate because in Hong Kong,
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my parents put me in the French school.
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SPEAKER_00: So,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: when I first went into the school,
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SPEAKER_00: I didn't really speak French,
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SPEAKER_00: but I had to learn it very quickly.
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SPEAKER_00: And when you're a kid, you pick up language fast.
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SPEAKER_00: And so that was great.
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SPEAKER_00: So I,
2:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
2:45
SPEAKER_00: certainly for work now,
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it's been really useful to be able to speak French and work in
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France and do
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SPEAKER_00: rehearsals in French,
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SPEAKER_00: etc.
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SPEAKER_00: And I sing a lot of French repertoire.
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SPEAKER_00: And I then also...
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SPEAKER_00: I studied German when I got to Columbia.
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SPEAKER_00: I was a comparative literature major.
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SPEAKER_00: So I started German when I was 18.
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SPEAKER_00: And that has been very useful.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean, my German, I have to say, is now quite rusty.
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SPEAKER_00: But the base,
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SPEAKER_00: because I sing a lot of German language repertoire as well,
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SPEAKER_00: of course,
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SPEAKER_00: including Mahler,
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SPEAKER_00: which is what I'm performing here in Salzburg,
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SPEAKER_00: but also a lot of,
3:17
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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SPEAKER_00: Lieder and all kinds of things.
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And then,
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as you mentioned,
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when I was a kid,
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I was exposed to various Chinese dialects.
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SPEAKER_00: And languages,
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SPEAKER_00: including Mandarin,
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SPEAKER_00: which I had in my school in Hong Kong,
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SPEAKER_00: which I don't speak very well,
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SPEAKER_00: but I have,
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SPEAKER_00: again,
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SPEAKER_00: a kind of foundation for it.
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SPEAKER_00: So when I'm programming chamber music,
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I do like to sing Chinese folk songs and I've commissioned a
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fair number of Chinese
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SPEAKER_00: American composers.
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SPEAKER_00: And I often do request that the pieces are in.
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SPEAKER_00: Mandarin or old Mandarin.
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SPEAKER_00: I find it a really expressive and beautiful language to sing in.
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SPEAKER_00: Also,
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SPEAKER_00: my family speaks Hokkien,
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SPEAKER_00: which is a dialect that I can understand decently well,
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SPEAKER_00: but not really speak so.
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SPEAKER_00: And of course, in Hong Kong, they speak Cantonese.
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SPEAKER_00: So in my head, running around are various languages.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
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SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you can hear,
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SPEAKER_01: ladies and gentlemen,
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SPEAKER_01: these Salzburg bells in the background,
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SPEAKER_01: but we can.
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SPEAKER_01: And you sing in lots of languages,
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SPEAKER_01: dead and alive,
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SPEAKER_01: if I may say,
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SPEAKER_01: or defunct,
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SPEAKER_01: some of them,
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SPEAKER_01: don't you?
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's wonderful versatility.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Back to Columbia and Comp Lit.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: Did you love it?
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Are you a big reader, Fleur?
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SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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SPEAKER_00: Do you know,
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what's interesting is that I've become less of a reader now
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because I spend so much
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SPEAKER_00: time poring over scores.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of my... I think to be...
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professionally where I am now which has been you know a dream
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to get to this point
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but I always have so much music to learn so a lot of my free
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time is spent studying
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I'm quite a nerd and then I find that when I'm not having to
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learn music I don't
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want to be looking at something on a page so of course I do
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read because I have to
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SPEAKER_00: do contextual reading for the projects I'm involved in
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SPEAKER_00: But I read much less for pleasure than I used to.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: I'd prefer probably to watch something.
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SPEAKER_00: But certainly, I mean, I had an amazing time at Columbia.
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SPEAKER_00: And I have to say,
5:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:18
SPEAKER_00: freshman year,
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SPEAKER_00: I was not I hadn't,
5:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: the great thing about American education,
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SPEAKER_00: the liberal arts education is that it first of all,
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SPEAKER_00: compared to let's say the UK,
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SPEAKER_00: where
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An undergraduate degree is three years and you're expected to
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specialize when you
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SPEAKER_00: enter,
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SPEAKER_00: like you're specializing already from kind of junior year in high school.
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SPEAKER_00: In the States, there's less of that expectation and pressure.
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SPEAKER_00: So I changed my major every year for the first three years.
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So my freshman year,
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I was a math,
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believe it or not,
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math and medieval studies double major.
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SPEAKER_00: That's what I thought to myself when I was 18.
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SPEAKER_00: I'd really like to do this.
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SPEAKER_00: And I remember at some point my dad said,
5:51
SPEAKER_00: what are you going to do with a degree in medieval studies?
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SPEAKER_00: Great question, dad.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
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SPEAKER_01: I love that combo though.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, math and medieval studies.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And then I realized,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: a semester in,
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Columbia has an engineering school C's with like a bunch of
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math geniuses who don't
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SPEAKER_00: have to apply themselves and they get straight A's.
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And I was having to work really hard to kind of get a B plus in
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calculus three.
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SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay.
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SPEAKER_00: this is perhaps not the path for me.
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SPEAKER_00: That's really good, by the way, in my book.
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SPEAKER_01: That's just rocket level stuff.
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SPEAKER_00: And so sophomore year, I believe I was art history.
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SPEAKER_00: And then a junior year, I was complete.
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SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's what I graduated with.
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SPEAKER_00: But for me,
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SPEAKER_00: it meant it's not so much that I had a,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: a specialism in a particular era of literature.
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SPEAKER_00: It's more that it allowed me to take
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courses in a bunch of different disciplines and also courses
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that were looking at
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SPEAKER_00: subject matter across disciplines,
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SPEAKER_00: which to me was always the most interesting.
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Because in life,
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in the current reality of the world,
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very few things exist in isolation.
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So I find it much more useful to study something as it
6:55
intersects with other stuff.
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SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course.
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Could you give us a few of the authors who really grabbed you
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or ones who enthralled you?
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Yeah,
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I mean,
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you know,
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I have to say that I do love the British Gothic novel.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love, you know, for example, Daphne du Maurier.
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SPEAKER_00: I when I was in college, I also got really into Kurt Vonnegut.
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SPEAKER_00: I did a course in post 45 U.S.
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SPEAKER_00: literature.
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SPEAKER_00: And I we went I mean,
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that was really just stylistically in the way he addressed
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hairy subject matter.
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SPEAKER_00: I with kind of great irony and black humor,
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SPEAKER_00: but then also getting right to the heart of the matter.
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SPEAKER_00: I really loved that.
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SPEAKER_00: There's a,
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SPEAKER_00: uh,
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SPEAKER_00: an author called Teresa Cha that I encountered in college that I really,
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SPEAKER_00: uh,
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SPEAKER_00: her,
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SPEAKER_00: the novel that really resonated with me is called dictate.
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SPEAKER_00: Also for me, it's just the stylistic thing that I was really grabbed by.
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SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, there's, there's so many things.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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now I'm really connecting with Ocean Vuong's writing partly
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because I also have an
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SPEAKER_00: upcoming and sort of ongoing and upcoming project involving his poetry.
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SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, there's, there's all sorts of things.
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SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful, Fleur.
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SPEAKER_01: Many years ago, I sat behind Kurt Vonnegut at a conference, I think.
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SPEAKER_01: I must say that I got a kick out of that because when I was young,
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SPEAKER_01: everyone read Slaughterhouse-Five.
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SPEAKER_01: Everybody read a big book.
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SPEAKER_01: Did you study an instrument?
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SPEAKER_00: I did.
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SPEAKER_00: In Hong Kong,
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SPEAKER_00: I play,
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SPEAKER_00: oh gosh,
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SPEAKER_00: I have to say I was terrible all these things,
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SPEAKER_00: but I played piano,
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SPEAKER_00: violin,
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SPEAKER_00: and clarinet.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure I believe you were terrible at any of those things.
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SPEAKER_00: No, truly.
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SPEAKER_00: Do you know why I was terrible?
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SPEAKER_00: It's because I hate practicing.
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SPEAKER_00: And so I, yes.
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SPEAKER_00: So,
8:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: as I think with most kids,
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I have the idea to take up those instruments because I had
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friends who were
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SPEAKER_00: studying them.
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SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, I want to be like my friend.
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SPEAKER_00: It seems fun.
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SPEAKER_00: And then actually the reality is when you're starting off,
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SPEAKER_00: you're not good because you're a beginner.
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And I just wanted to be either good,
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instantly good,
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but without having to apply myself.
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SPEAKER_00: And so it was sort of with piano, it was okay.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was never gifted at piano, but of course it's easier to
9:02
fairly rapidly be able to play a piece whereas violin I think I
9:06
was I sort of
9:08
sounded like that for a couple of years clarinet I really
9:10
enjoyed but I had to stop
9:11
when I got braces and yeah I also did ballet I mean I had a
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kind of typical
9:18
I would say Asian style upbringing where I did a lot of
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different things.
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SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
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SPEAKER_01: I can see you as a ballerina, by the way, certainly.
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SPEAKER_01: Could you always sing?
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SPEAKER_01: Did you kind of know it or did the people around you know it?
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SPEAKER_00: I suppose I felt, when did I start singing?
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SPEAKER_00: I must've been around 10 and you know, there was a kind of school.
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SPEAKER_00: We did Aladdin in school.
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SPEAKER_00: We self-produced it as kids, or maybe I was 11 in Hong Kong.
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SPEAKER_01: Is that a whole new world?
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
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SPEAKER_00: And I went to a co-ed school,
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SPEAKER_00: but nonetheless,
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SPEAKER_00: I got cast as Aladdin because I always had a low voice.
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SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's the title role.
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You should have been.
9:59
You should have.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
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And,
10:01
you know,
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I have to be another member of the cast,
10:03
Fleur Baron,
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for heaven's sakes.
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SPEAKER_00: Well,
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SPEAKER_00: I was really wanting to be Jasmine,
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SPEAKER_00: but unfortunately,
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SPEAKER_00: they saw me more as an Aladdin,
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SPEAKER_00: which was initially demoralizing.
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SPEAKER_00: But then actually, I really enjoyed it.
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SPEAKER_00: Obviously, at that time, I didn't have vibrato or anything.
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SPEAKER_00: Um,
10:17
But I sort of recognized that there was a timbre or something
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about my voice that
10:22
SPEAKER_00: people responded to.
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SPEAKER_00: Like it seemed to be an appealing sound to listen to.
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SPEAKER_00: So I was aware of that.
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SPEAKER_00: And also in my school in Hong Kong,
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SPEAKER_00: there was a lot of public speaking,
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SPEAKER_00: which I was quite good at.
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SPEAKER_00: So there was something about...
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sound emanating from me that um people seem to resonate with in
10:41
some way but i
10:42
didn't then think to myself oh yes you know my dream is to
10:45
become a professional
10:46
some sort of i don't know singer whatever that is um at that at
10:49
that early stage so
10:51
yeah it wasn't it wasn't for some time it developed it
10:54
developed very slowly i
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SPEAKER_01: would say yes i was reviewing your rep
11:01
SPEAKER_01: your repertoire and your appearances and so on.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure I know of a more versatile singer.
11:08
You sing in so many languages,
11:11
Renaissance,
11:12
Baroque,
11:12
right through modern,
11:14
song and opera.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: And I sometimes like to quote Duke Ellington.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: If it sounds good, it is good.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: And you seem to me a musical omnivore.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: And I love a quotation from Shostakovich.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: It would have to be updated now.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: He said, I love all music from Bach to Offenbach.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: That was his quip.
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SPEAKER_01: Now we'd have to pick someone more contemporary.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: But I wonder...
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SPEAKER_01: Are you an omnivore?
11:43
And is there anything,
11:44
any sort of genre of music you don't especially care for?
11:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes,
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SPEAKER_00: I suppose within what we call classical music,
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SPEAKER_00: and my identity as a primarily classical vocalist,
11:59
SPEAKER_00: yes,
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I think I probably would say I'm an omnivore.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: It's really important to me.
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SPEAKER_00: I really relish music.
12:08
that within a season I have so many different kinds of projects
12:11
spanning so many
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SPEAKER_00: different styles and genres and languages because it's,
12:17
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
12:17
SPEAKER_00: it's intellectually challenging.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: It's artistically challenging.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Um,
12:21
I really thrive on feeling stimulated and growing from feeling
12:27
challenged as
12:27
SPEAKER_00: opposed to staying in a safe zone of,
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh,
12:29
SPEAKER_00: this,
12:30
SPEAKER_00: my specialty is music from whatever thing or this particular composer.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I do all the time.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Um,
12:35
SPEAKER_00: So,
12:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:36
SPEAKER_00: I suppose the flip side to that is there,
12:39
SPEAKER_00: perhaps for certain repertoire that I sing,
12:42
for people who are really devoted to certain recordings of the
12:45
greats from back in
12:46
SPEAKER_00: the day that they would think,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: oh,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: well,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:48
Fleur Baron doesn't have the optimal sound compared to what
12:51
we're used to.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't, that approach doesn't interest me so much.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: For me,
12:55
SPEAKER_00: it's really about,
12:56
SPEAKER_00: essentially,
12:57
SPEAKER_00: all music is communicating a story,
12:59
SPEAKER_00: communicating something humanistic and narrative and experience.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: And
13:03
Um,
13:04
that's what the through line is for me across all these
13:06
different genres.
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SPEAKER_00: So in terms of, is there something that I don't gravitate towards?
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, not really.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I can't,
13:13
SPEAKER_00: I,
13:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:13
SPEAKER_00: in terms of things that I listened to,
13:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't really like,
13:15
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:16
SPEAKER_00: country music,
13:16
SPEAKER_00: for example,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: it's not that I hate it.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: It's just not, I wouldn't choose to put that on.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and there are things that, you
13:24
SPEAKER_00: I know that my voice doesn't suit like pop music,
13:27
SPEAKER_00: for example,
13:27
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:28
SPEAKER_00: but within within what is possible for classical,
13:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
13:32
SPEAKER_00: I love to sing jazz,
13:34
I like to sing and say a lot of contemporary music and extended
13:36
techniques.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Also Baroque, also romantic music.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't like to put parameters on
13:46
repertoire or projects I take just because it's from something
13:49
that I you know a
13:51
style that I don't feel that I'm an expert in because yeah it's
13:54
always inspiring
13:54
when I'm on like I usually do for example two or three Baroque
13:58
projects a year and
13:58
I'm I don't consider myself a Baroque specialist at all but I
14:02
always really enjoy
14:03
when I'm singing with people who are because that's really
14:06
inspiring to me I learn
14:07
SPEAKER_00: a lot and
14:10
SPEAKER_00: I think, gosh, what could be better?
14:12
SPEAKER_00: I love that feeling of kind of wonderment when I'm doing something,
14:16
SPEAKER_00: especially with people who are outstanding at what they do.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think, oh, yeah, that's great what she did.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: I want to try that myself.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't like the feeling of staleness.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: I love exploring.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: I love trying things out and seeing what's possible.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Ain't nothing stale about Fleur Baron, I can tell you that.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: I've heard you sing in Chinese,
14:40
SPEAKER_01: and I've heard Ying Fang and others,
14:41
SPEAKER_01: and I know there's no such language as Chinese,
14:44
SPEAKER_01: but humor me.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: I know there's Mandarin.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Humor me, though.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Is it, shall we say, a singable language?
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Do you enjoy singing in Chinese?
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Is it a language that lends itself to singing in Chinese?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think so.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: I think Mandarin,
15:03
SPEAKER_00: especially,
15:04
SPEAKER_00: as you say,
15:04
SPEAKER_00: because,
15:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:04
SPEAKER_00: there's many Chinese languages and dialects.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: I find.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find Mandarin a really beautiful language to sing in.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, there are some like with any language when you're singing.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: In Chinese,
15:17
SPEAKER_00: there are some,
15:18
SPEAKER_00: at least for me,
15:18
some sounds that I have to modify a little bit because there's
15:22
some R sounds that
15:24
SPEAKER_00: are at the back of the throat when you speak that when I sing it,
15:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't make it quite so guttural.
15:30
But otherwise,
15:30
I find Chinese kind of like German and that it's very
15:33
expressive.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of,
15:35
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:35
kind of consonants and consonant clusters and long vowels and
15:37
short vowels.
15:38
And it's one of my favorite languages to sing,
15:42
and I think it's beautiful.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
15:47
I have spoken to not a few native English speakers who are
15:51
singers who say,
15:52
SPEAKER_01: it's not so easy to sing in English.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: I think it depends on the genre.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're doing,
16:03
SPEAKER_00: let's say,
16:03
SPEAKER_00: American musical theater or,
16:05
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:05
SPEAKER_00: something like that,
16:06
it's kind of easier because it's not about necessarily pristine
16:10
legato all the
16:11
SPEAKER_00: time.
16:11
Like there,
16:12
it's really clear that the prime,
16:13
the text is really important.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And then also the style,
16:17
SPEAKER_00: like you wouldn't want to sing,
16:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Gershwin or something and sound like an opera diva.
16:21
Like it would need to have a certain kind of American-ness in
16:25
the way it's done.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I suppose if you're doing English language opera,
16:31
SPEAKER_00: like with anything,
16:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
16:31
I don't know if anything is totally intelligible of your
16:34
singing it with two and a
16:35
SPEAKER_00: half octaves.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: You know,
16:36
SPEAKER_00: it's like when you get up to the stratospheric stuff,
16:39
SPEAKER_00: no matter what language you're singing,
16:40
SPEAKER_00: is it going to be intelligible?
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I am a bit of an Anglophile.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm an everything file, frankly.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know why I say that.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: But when I was young,
16:50
SPEAKER_01: hearing Janet Baker,
16:52
SPEAKER_01: not live,
16:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid,
16:53
SPEAKER_01: but on recordings,
16:54
SPEAKER_01: sing these English art songs,
16:56
SPEAKER_01: That was very special.
16:58
I wonder,
16:59
I suppose the triumvirate of mezzos when I was growing up was
17:04
Baker,
17:04
Horn,
17:05
Ludwig.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if you had some,
17:09
SPEAKER_01: when you were training,
17:10
SPEAKER_01: some sort of mezzo standouts or models or other singers as well.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my absolute idol is Lorraine Hunt Lieberson.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just think... Yeah, I mean, for so many reasons.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: First of all,
17:25
SPEAKER_00: in terms of when you say to me,
17:28
SPEAKER_00: when I look at your career,
17:29
SPEAKER_00: it seems like you do a lot of different kinds of stuff,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: which is...
17:34
unusual i think even today um but she was one of one of the
17:37
first maybe her and don
17:39
SPEAKER_00: upshaw because they were contemporaries yeah who were really broad in the
17:43
repertoire that they took on i mean lorraine's recording of
17:45
bach i don't sing that
17:47
much bach but you know she the way she sang bach and and handle
17:51
but then also
17:51
contemporary work she premiered i mean i suppose she was sort
17:54
of a muse for living
17:55
SPEAKER_00: composers including her husband you know
17:59
SPEAKER_00: And I sang the Neruda songs,
18:01
SPEAKER_00: which were written by Peter Lieberson for the first time in December.
18:05
I just think she also had the most extraordinary authenticity
18:09
in her sound and in her artistry.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, for me, she's always one of my go-tos when I'm listening.
18:17
I believe I heard her and saw her in Berlioz,
18:20
in addition to several recitals.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: There was something so soulful, so pure.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Fleur, how about you and your friend Gustav Mahler?
18:33
SPEAKER_01: You have such a warm relationship.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Don't you love him?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I understand he could be kind of a prickly character.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: I really don't care.
18:43
I've long loved him and consider him a kind of friend,
18:47
though we'll not meet him in the flesh.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: We know him through his music a bit.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
18:52
SPEAKER_00: I started singing Mahler's symphonic works,
18:56
SPEAKER_00: I suppose it's been about a year and a half now,
18:58
SPEAKER_00: so relatively recently,
18:59
SPEAKER_00: but it amped up very quickly.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And the season that's just closing,
19:03
SPEAKER_00: the 24-25 season,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
19:05
SPEAKER_00: I did two tours of Das Lied von der Erde with Daniel Harding.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I sang just so many things.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: It was a big season of Mahler.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: And that continues.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: This coming season,
19:16
I have for the first time the Kindertontlieder with two
19:19
different orchestras.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And also again,
19:21
Dasid von der Erde and the Rückertlieder and Mahler 8 for the
19:25
first time and Mahler
19:26
SPEAKER_00: 3 in December.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: And so it's very clear.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: That's more or less it.
19:31
I don't have Mahler 2 this season,
19:32
but I had it – next season rather,
19:34
I had it this season.
19:35
But,
19:35
you know,
19:36
and also moving beyond that into future seasons,
19:39
I have a lot of Mahler.
19:40
And I'm so excited by that because that to me,
19:45
like when we're talking about –
19:47
The constructing or the architecture of a career and navigating
19:52
different terrains
19:54
SPEAKER_00: of styles and genres.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: But it's nice to have something that's sort of a staple, let's say.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And I feel that Mahler has become that for me.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: It was an instant click.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: I think it came along.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: I started getting invited to do Mahler at just the right time.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: I think prior to that,
20:09
SPEAKER_00: it's not that I wouldn't have been able to sing it,
20:11
SPEAKER_00: but I don't know that somehow,
20:14
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
20:14
SPEAKER_00: in my being that I would have been ready for it.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Because the thing with Mahler is,
20:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:20
SPEAKER_00: the sort of hallmarks,
20:21
SPEAKER_00: let's say,
20:22
SPEAKER_00: is you need a warm voice.
20:23
You need a voice with a certain amount of heft because the
20:25
orchestral writing is very dense.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: And it's often low sitting, but also goes high.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: So you need to be comfortable in a lot of different parts of your range.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: But then fundamentally,
20:38
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:38
SPEAKER_00: a lot of Mahler's orchestral works,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: he did these sort of voice piano songs that were kind of studied.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: So I had previously sung quite a number of his pieces just with piano.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: And his works are incredibly intimate.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Even when you have the full orchestra going,
21:00
SPEAKER_00: there needs to be a kind of spiritual mojo,
21:05
SPEAKER_00: I think,
21:05
SPEAKER_00: underpinning everything.
21:07
And I think you need a certain amount of life experience and
21:11
readiness within
21:13
SPEAKER_00: yourself to understand things.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: how to connect to that.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: And I,
21:16
SPEAKER_00: that for me has,
21:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:18
SPEAKER_00: something that I'm now ready for that when I was younger,
21:21
SPEAKER_00: even evocally,
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I would have been a good fit.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I think the other aspect might have been missing.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: So no, it feels really serendipitous.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And I do feel very, very connected to his music.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm very fortunate that one of my mentors,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: not quite the right word,
21:37
SPEAKER_00: but dear friends and sort of inspirations is his granddaughter,
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Marina Mahler,
21:42
SPEAKER_00: who has become a friend
21:44
SPEAKER_00: partly through the fact that I do sing a lot of Mahler.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And it's been kind of amazing to feel,
21:51
SPEAKER_00: as you say,
21:52
SPEAKER_00: a little bit more closeness to...
21:54
SPEAKER_00: What a connection.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: And she's an extraordinary person.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: She runs the Mahler Foundation.
22:01
And she's always thinking about the connections between
22:05
Mahler's music and present
22:06
SPEAKER_00: day life and also connecting...
22:10
His music with other composers and other artists,
22:13
visual artists,
22:13
all kinds of things.
22:14
And I think that's so important because I feel that potential
22:18
in his sound world.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: There's an openness to it rather than a looking in.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: It is music that connects well with other things.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: You remind me of a previous mezzo guest of mine,
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Krista Ludwig,
22:35
SPEAKER_01: who spoke of Mahler,
22:37
SPEAKER_01: and she said,
22:37
SPEAKER_01: this may be surprising,
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Leonard Bernstein's not famous for lack of sentimentality.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: In fact, the opposite.
22:44
She said it was Bernstein who taught me that you cannot sing or
22:47
play Mahler too sentimentally.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And she said something very curious to me.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: She said in the Kinder Totenlieder,
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Songs on the Death of Children,
22:57
SPEAKER_01: she said,
22:59
they always destroyed me and broke me up and I could hardly get
23:03
through them until
23:04
SPEAKER_01: I had children myself.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: And then I was unsentimental about the music.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: That's such a curious thing to say, but she did indeed say it.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I, that really resonates with me.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: actually,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: the Kindertornnieder is some of my favorite things to sing,
23:19
SPEAKER_00: and I don't have children.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: But I think because a lot of,
23:24
SPEAKER_00: as with Das Sieg von der Erde,
23:26
SPEAKER_00: especially Abschied,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: the last,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: the sort of 30-minute sort of monologue that closes the entire cycle...
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Even though the subject matter and general feeling might be,
23:37
SPEAKER_00: let's say,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: on the heavy side or the tragic sounding side,
23:41
SPEAKER_00: especially for the Kindertontnieder,
23:43
SPEAKER_00: actually those pieces are not about wallowing or sitting in walls.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: in a space of darkness it's about someone who is um has had a tough time
23:53
emotionally and is looking for the light and is trying to
23:56
process something and i
23:58
think that is so human and so relatable so there isn't for me
24:02
yeah the it's not
24:03
about sentimentality and oh how precious you know these
24:06
feelings are or something
24:07
SPEAKER_00: it's it's just it's really um
24:10
really very deeply human and it's moving through something that
24:15
feels challenging
24:16
and the kinder told me that there's these moments of extreme
24:20
beauty of memory that
24:22
SPEAKER_00: are little shafts of light and then it's like,
24:25
SPEAKER_00: oh,
24:25
SPEAKER_00: let's keep moving towards that and so there's a lot of
24:30
SPEAKER_00: It's not just one emotion or one state of being.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: There's many colors and experiences that exist within each song.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: And I find that so truthful to how we process as people.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: It occurs to me,
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Fleur,
24:44
that you're going to be a great teacher if you want to be when
24:47
the time comes.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever conducted anything?
24:52
SPEAKER_00: No.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: That's the only answer.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Is that something you've ever thought of?
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Also,
24:58
SPEAKER_00: no,
24:58
SPEAKER_00: I just think because I came to music later,
25:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
25:03
I didn't start formally training my voice until my master's at
25:07
Manhattan School of
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Music.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't have the level of like the musicological level.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: academic foundation.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: That stuff is so boring, Fleur.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Forgive me for saying so, but my God, you don't want that, do you?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: I think to conduct you sort of need that, personally.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Nothing can kill music faster than musicology.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm just being cheeky.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: I have great respect for such scholars.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: But even being able to,
25:34
SPEAKER_00: let's say,
25:36
SPEAKER_00: in-depth knowledge of music theory to be able to break down a score.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: That's just not my...
25:43
SPEAKER_00: background in terms of my relationship to music.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
25:47
SPEAKER_00: of course,
25:47
SPEAKER_00: when I started my master's,
25:49
SPEAKER_00: which was in voice performance,
25:50
SPEAKER_00: I could read music because I had played instruments,
25:52
SPEAKER_00: but I couldn't do counterpoint or something.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: So I sort of quickly learned those things.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: But then a lot of the focus, the academic focus was just
25:59
technique and trying to figure out how to perform and what to
26:02
do with my body and
26:03
SPEAKER_00: all of those things.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: So I think if I wanted to become a conductor,
26:06
SPEAKER_00: which I don't,
26:08
SPEAKER_00: I would really need to do some serious study because,
26:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:12
SPEAKER_00: there's nothing worse than having a conductor who doesn't understand each
26:17
instrument and how their sound works and how they play and
26:21
understand how to talk
26:22
SPEAKER_00: to
26:23
those various players in a way that they relate to in terms of
26:27
the sound they're
26:28
SPEAKER_00: making and technique or whatever.
26:31
And of course,
26:32
you know,
26:32
not every conductor is great at working with singers.
26:35
And it's because maybe they don't quite understand the voice or
26:39
they don't really
26:39
SPEAKER_00: understand breathing or,
26:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:41
SPEAKER_00: whatever it is.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean...
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Fortunately,
26:42
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:43
SPEAKER_00: the people I've worked with have been wonderful,
26:44
SPEAKER_00: but I've I've heard stories.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the thing.
26:47
It requires I think some people just have that instinct or
26:51
maybe I don't know what it is.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I just know for me that I don't have that.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: So it's not that I'm not interested in conducting.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: I just know that I don't certainly right now.
27:00
I don't have the skill set to be able to like somehow
27:03
organically transition to that.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: Do you ever sing just for yourself at home for pleasure?
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Or is it more of a professional thing?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
27:13
SPEAKER_00: I love to say,
27:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
27:14
SPEAKER_00: I have to,
27:15
SPEAKER_00: I,
27:16
SPEAKER_00: in general,
27:16
SPEAKER_00: don't sing out loud a lot,
27:18
SPEAKER_00: because if I'm not working,
27:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably resting my voice.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: But I,
27:23
SPEAKER_00: what I really love,
27:23
SPEAKER_00: when I first moved to the States,
27:25
SPEAKER_00: I got really into American musical theater.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: So I love singing along to,
27:29
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Broadway show tunes,
27:31
SPEAKER_00: or like,
27:32
SPEAKER_00: I'll put on Ella Fitzgerald and singing along,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: things like that.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: But it's kind of in a distracted way.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: It's not that I'm trying to
27:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not singing at the top of my lungs in my apartment.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you something that Lea Desandre said in this series of ours.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, who are your favorite singers, the singers you most admire?
27:51
SPEAKER_01: And she spoke of Callas and Frederica Van Stade and others.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: And then she said, don't forget Julie Andrews.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think Lea knows a lot of musical theater.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Do you have a favorite musical or a couple favorite musicals?
28:08
SPEAKER_01: I guess outside of Rodgers and Hammerstein,
28:09
SPEAKER_01: I'd have to name West Side Story,
28:11
SPEAKER_01: which was kind of a mic drop to me.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not too good on musicals of the last 50, 60 years, let's say.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: You probably know a lot more.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, when I was living in New York, I used to go all the time.
28:23
I mean,
28:23
I love the popular – I went to see Wicked three times,
28:27
for example.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: And just recently I got into – on YouTube I was watching –
28:33
Showboat,
28:34
but the original,
28:34
I think it was a cast from the 80s or something.
28:37
And just the way people sang musical theater several decades
28:41
ago versus how they do
28:43
SPEAKER_00: now,
28:44
SPEAKER_00: I really,
28:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
28:45
SPEAKER_00: because it's not that...
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Showboat is about one millimeter away from operetta,
28:49
SPEAKER_01: isn't it?
28:50
SPEAKER_01: It's sort of an American operetta.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think.
28:55
The woman who sang Julie,
28:56
her name I think was something like Lynette McKay or McKee.
29:00
I mean she was incredible and – what's the name of – I can't –
29:06
I'm blanking now on
29:07
SPEAKER_00: the people's names.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: But it was – they had most of the show on YouTube.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: It was sort of maybe home videos.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: And I just – I mean I love that music and I love –
29:16
SPEAKER_00: um, ragtime.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And I love,
29:18
SPEAKER_00: and I remember,
29:18
SPEAKER_00: um,
29:19
SPEAKER_00: I,
29:19
SPEAKER_00: when I was a student going to see the man of La Mancha on Broadway,
29:23
SPEAKER_00: which had Brian Stokes Mitchell.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I got, you know, student tickets.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: I was in high school.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I, and seeing, um, a Marin Mazzi.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: I used to,
29:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
29:31
SPEAKER_00: it was like,
29:32
SPEAKER_00: there were really,
29:32
SPEAKER_00: there were certain performers that I really enjoyed.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Rebecca Luker.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, seeing, and the music man, you know, these are great shows.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Music man really is possibly that.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: And there's no great American musical, but I think if I had to,
29:46
nominate a candidate it would be the music man so iowa you know
29:51
so meredith wilson
29:52
um here at the end fleur and what a pleasure to speak with you
29:57
and i just might
29:58
want to say to our audience that that fleur baron is f-l-e-u-r
30:03
b-a-r-r-o-n speaking
30:06
SPEAKER_01: just standard english do you say fleur
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: My Midwestern-ness really came out.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: That was really Midwestern when I said that.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: You don't say fleur.
30:17
No,
30:17
I mean,
30:17
I'm used to it being,
30:18
obviously,
30:19
when I'm in France,
30:19
people say fleur.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: When I'm in England, it's fleur.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: That sounded pretty posh, frankly.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Silent R.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Fleur,
30:29
SPEAKER_01: this is the most boring question in the world,
30:32
SPEAKER_01: but it's an important one,
30:33
SPEAKER_01: and it's something they've asked for generations.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm always quoting Charles Rosen,
30:39
the late pianist scholar who said the death of classical music
30:42
is probably the
30:43
SPEAKER_01: oldest tradition of classical music.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: People are always saying it's going out,
30:48
SPEAKER_01: people aren't interested anymore,
30:49
SPEAKER_01: and it always goes on,
30:51
SPEAKER_01: always.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure that's true.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: And all older people say, you know, tutto declina.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: That's what Falstaff says.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Everything is declining.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: So I know that's nonsense.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you that in the U.S.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: context, I'm a little worried.
31:08
I'm around a lot of bright young people,
31:11
well-educated,
31:12
bright,
31:13
fairly broad young people.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't know about Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: It just hasn't been part of their experience.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'm a tiny bit worried, but maybe that's just stupid.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: And then future generations,
31:27
SPEAKER_01: future generations always laugh at previous ones who say,
31:30
SPEAKER_01: man,
31:31
SPEAKER_01: this is it.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, that's enough of a monologue from me.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: What say you?
31:36
SPEAKER_01: You're in the biz.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: You're in the biz.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
31:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel that – certainly,
31:42
SPEAKER_00: financially,
31:43
SPEAKER_00: there is a lot of struggle with – let's take just the states,
31:47
SPEAKER_00: for example.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of companies – I mean,
31:49
SPEAKER_00: during the pandemic,
31:50
SPEAKER_00: there were places that were forced to shut down.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: And then I think post-pandemic recovery has been hard combined with,
31:58
SPEAKER_00: as you say,
31:58
SPEAKER_00: the younger generations not –
32:01
SPEAKER_00: inherently feeling compelled to go to see classical music.
32:06
But I don't feel that there is a decline because the
32:09
conservatories are fuller than
32:11
SPEAKER_00: ever with young,
32:12
SPEAKER_00: aspiring classical musicians.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm not just talking about vocalists.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: So there's clearly the talent and the passion and the interest is there.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: So I think,
32:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
32:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
32:21
SPEAKER_00: this is not a new subject to raise,
32:24
but I think the challenge for a lot of leadership in the
32:28
classical world is
32:31
what are the things that we can try that we haven't tried
32:34
before in terms of
32:36
engaging a new audience and whether that's a combination of
32:41
commissioning and
32:42
telling different kinds of stories and maybe understanding how
32:46
to broaden and shift
32:48
the identity of the opera house or the concert hall so that it
32:51
is more connected to
32:52
SPEAKER_00: the community in which it is based,
32:55
SPEAKER_00: what to do about ticket prices,
32:58
SPEAKER_00: is there a way to engage donors
33:00
SPEAKER_00: differently so that,
33:01
SPEAKER_00: for example,
33:01
SPEAKER_00: I know Anthony Rothkonstans with Opera Philadelphia,
33:04
SPEAKER_00: they did this sort of pay what you can thing.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And as a result,
33:09
SPEAKER_00: their entire season sold out,
33:10
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:11
SPEAKER_00: and but of course,
33:12
SPEAKER_00: that then requires donors to
33:14
SPEAKER_00: make up the deficit that normally would come just from ticket sales,
33:18
SPEAKER_00: but then sold out as really exciting.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we need.
33:21
As you say,
33:22
people might just want to feel that they feel welcome and they
33:25
can afford to go.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Because there are some, like, it's not always that expensive.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
33:31
going to classical music is not more expensive than going to
33:33
see a big star at a
33:34
SPEAKER_00: pop concert.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: But I think for some people, it might seem that way.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: There's this kind of elitist aura around classical music.
33:42
which I think sometimes is true and sometimes isn't depending
33:45
on the place,
33:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:47
SPEAKER_00: the institution and how it is.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: So I do,
33:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm very inspired right now to see that there are some folks,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: some leadership,
33:55
SPEAKER_00: some institutions that are trying new things and really going for it.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: And it does take that level of
34:04
SPEAKER_00: kind of let's go for 150% and see what happens.
34:07
It's not necessarily going to be an immediate payoff,
34:09
also with programming,
34:10
for example.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not really worried in the long term.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: I think for people who are sort of traditionalists and think,
34:17
SPEAKER_00: well,
34:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:18
SPEAKER_00: we're going to lose touch with the way things have been until now.
34:22
I mean,
34:22
the thing is,
34:23
that may be the case,
34:24
like in terms of,
34:26
are we going to
34:27
SPEAKER_00: be able to program exactly like how we have over the last,
34:32
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:32
SPEAKER_00: 60 years,
34:33
SPEAKER_00: maybe not,
34:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:34
SPEAKER_00: but is that a tragedy?
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Not, I don't think so.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And,
34:36
SPEAKER_00: and I think,
34:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:38
SPEAKER_00: going back to your earlier observation about omnivore or whatever,
34:43
SPEAKER_00: I think now I'm also seeing that there are a lot more artists,
34:46
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
34:47
SPEAKER_00: a lot more artist driven projects,
34:48
because I think individual artists are seeing how important it
34:52
is to sort of be
34:53
SPEAKER_00: awake in your own path.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: It's not just like, Oh,
34:57
SPEAKER_00: My voice only sings Puccini or my agent is telling me this.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: This is what I should do.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: It's like, what do you want to do?
35:03
SPEAKER_00: What are the stories you want to tell?
35:04
SPEAKER_00: What's the music you want to sing?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, OK, go do it.
35:06
Oh,
35:06
you want to collaborate with that guitarist or this ensemble or
35:10
reach out?
35:10
You know,
35:10
so I'm seeing a lot more self-activism in a way that there
35:16
never was before.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: And so,
35:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
35:19
I don't think we're going to see the sort of positive
35:21
repercussions of all of that.
35:23
in the next one to two years i think it's a sort of more medium
35:26
term like we'll see
35:27
in five years where things are at and for sure i think the the
35:31
landscape of
35:32
classical music is gonna is i already feel it shifting i
35:35
already feel it shifting
35:36
in terms of the conversations i'm having with promoters um and
35:40
some places it's
35:41
SPEAKER_00: shifting more than other you know and faster than other places um
35:46
But I think it's important and perhaps inevitable if we want
35:49
to,
35:50
as you say,
35:51
keep it alive.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's any advantage in doubling,
35:54
SPEAKER_00: digging our heels further into the mud and saying,
35:56
SPEAKER_00: well,
35:57
SPEAKER_00: we've got to get everyone to come over to us exactly the way it's been.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you know, I mean, what's what's the point of that?
36:03
SPEAKER_01: So here at the very end.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: You've already given us a couple of favorite composers,
36:09
SPEAKER_01: a couple of favorite singers,
36:11
SPEAKER_01: maybe just a couple more.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: Just singers and music dear to your heart.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Not a complete list, not unabridged, just a little taste.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
36:23
so often what is really dear to my heart is whatever it is that
36:29
I'm working on or
36:30
SPEAKER_00: studying at the moment.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it sort of has to be that way.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: I can say that
36:35
SPEAKER_00: You know,
36:35
SPEAKER_00: one composer that I discovered,
36:40
SPEAKER_00: which was a couple of seasons ago now,
36:42
SPEAKER_00: my mentor,
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Barbara Hannigan,
36:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
36:43
SPEAKER_00: talking about someone who can really do it all.
36:45
I mean,
36:46
she she was conducting the season opening at the London
36:49
Symphony Orchestra.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And she asked me to sing a piece by a Canadian composer who's who's.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: passed on called Claude Vivier.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And it was this,
36:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
36:58
SPEAKER_00: it was a piece for voice and string orchestra with,
37:02
SPEAKER_00: with spectral sound.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
37:03
there was the recorded voice of Martin Luther King and there
37:06
were all kinds of
37:07
SPEAKER_00: things,
37:07
SPEAKER_00: a sort of commentary on war amongst other things.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Also a poem by Hölderlin and the piece is called Wo bist du Licht?
37:15
SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, this is one of the hardest pieces I've ever had to learn.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Um,
37:20
SPEAKER_00: And one of the most impactful pieces,
37:22
SPEAKER_00: because exactly as we were talking about earlier,
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Christa Louvert talking about Mahler,
37:27
SPEAKER_00: it's not about sentimentality at all.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: It's a very,
37:32
SPEAKER_00: it's full of passion and emotion,
37:35
SPEAKER_00: but it's also a sort of,
37:37
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
37:39
SPEAKER_00: an expressionistic delivery and look at
37:44
things that are very painful and fraught um and that is the
37:47
moment we are living in
37:49
right now also um and so that that piece has really stuck with
37:53
me you know and that
37:53
composer because also he had the most tragic life my goodness
37:57
so you know that I
37:58
I'm always fascinated by a discovery like there are lots I mean
38:02
I could tell you
38:03
all I mean I love Vivaldi I love Handel I love Berlioz I love
38:06
Mahler I love I mean
38:07
SPEAKER_00: there's so many known quantities that I love this is a discovery
38:10
SPEAKER_00: That was a discovery.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
38:13
SPEAKER_00: right now,
38:14
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:14
SPEAKER_00: there's I'm working a lot with the composer Bryce Dessner,
38:18
SPEAKER_00: who's sort of rock classical,
38:20
SPEAKER_00: I would say.
38:20
And that for me is really awesome because he's writing things
38:23
specifically for my voice.
38:25
And I love his style because it's sort of there's something
38:28
really meditative.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: There's a meditative quality about his music.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: And he's so...
38:34
thoughtful in his approach to how he sets text and the message
38:39
he's going for.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And collaborating with someone like that I find really rewarding.
38:44
So it's almost for me too of an open-ended question because I'm
38:51
always studying
38:52
SPEAKER_00: multiple things at the same time just because that's how my season is.
38:57
And I'm really – I'm kind of on a high about all the stuff on
39:00
my plate because I
39:02
only accept projects that I'm really excited about because
39:06
otherwise what's the
39:07
SPEAKER_00: point?
39:08
SPEAKER_00: And in the course of getting to know a piece better,
39:11
SPEAKER_00: I get even more excited,
39:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
39:13
and especially if it means a collaboration with a living
39:16
composer and or a living
39:18
SPEAKER_00: librettist or poet or whatever.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the conversations that you have then about –
39:23
SPEAKER_00: about the process,
39:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
39:24
the creation process and then how you bring something to life
39:27
and then go through
39:28
SPEAKER_00: performance.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like next level fulfilling for me.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: To use old slang, Fleur, that is so cool.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: Really cool.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jay Nordlinger for Q&A.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: We've been listening to the singer Fleur Barron.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: What a pleasure, a breath of fresh air.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: And thank you and all the best to you.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: So long, everyone.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Till next time.