Latest / 987 The Shock Circuit / INTERVIEW: STEVEN CHIA

Transcript

INTERVIEW: STEVEN CHIA · 987 The Shock Circuit

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: We're having a good laugh on TikTok Live already because
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: as you know, Joe or Cro Joe as we call him,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and the name stuck, the name stuck, even our listeners
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: call you Crojo. You know there are people pointing at
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: me in public saying, hey, Cro Joe, you're welcome, by
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the way. I came up with that nickname. Um, he
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: has an irrational fear of crows. I'm not going to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: make fun of you for that because I have an
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: irrational fear of roaches, OK? So both of us, yeah,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: both of us have, uh.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Fears, respective fears. But coming up in a few minutes,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: our friend Steve, who has never left our 987 studio,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: he's a, yeah, he's always here. er I think. He's
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: going to be telling us more about crows and how
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I guess the population is being controlled or at least
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: they're trying. So is today the day I tell about
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: my crow to Steve? I don't think Steve knows the story, right? OK, yeah,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: so he's shaking his head. So we'll fill him in.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: And I think our listeners have heard this 100 times,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: so you just keep it short, OK? Yes, I will. OK. Alright.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Having a hilarious convo, bit of a TikTok exclusive right now,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna bring the conversation on air. Let's officially
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: bring our guests on air as well. I love to
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: glaze them. So I think in the studio today, he
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: has conducted more research than Albert Einstein himself. OK, ladies
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and gentlemen from CNN's Talking Point. Give it up for Steve.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, hey,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: hey, well, let me give myself a pat on the back, man.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you for contributing to society, man. How many episodes
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of Talking Point,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's more than Albert Einstein. Yeah, you're
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: like the top investigative journalist right now. Yeah,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I've been here at the company for 20 years already,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: so yeah, so it's been a long time and you know, yeah,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: so it's been fun. It's been fun because I get
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to learn so many new things.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Meet so many different people and discover all these things
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: about all these uh animals that are among in our midst.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: And
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you've put yourself through quite a lot as well, yeah, sometimes, yeah,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: challenges and also this time around, I feel like this
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: episode is dedicated to Joakim. Why? Because he's he has
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: an irrational fear of crows. Can you please
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: summarize.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Story short, the year was 1998. I was 10 years old.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It was when the Chicken McCrispy was just released, you know,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: flash fry and steamed marinate. My mom gives me $10.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Go to the McDonald's and buy it for yourself. I
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: bought it, was walking home, OK. There was a crow
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: that was next to me, and me being 10, I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: made the stupidest mistake alive. I threw a french fry
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: down just to distract the crow.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So, as I kept walking, something you said made me
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: feel very uneasy. Joakim turned back. When I turned back,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: there were 7 crows flying towards me. One of them
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: actually swiped my head like that. Yeah. So I was
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: running for dear life. I threw my food down and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: ran home. Threw of the crows were attacking the food instead.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: They went for the food. Went home. I told my
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: mom the entire story. She laughs at me. Yeah, that's all.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So I think from there.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Then whenever I see a crow near me, I just
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: get the PTSD and the stress
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: from it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: There you go, there you go, and you are not alone.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It's happened to other people before too, uh, and interestingly
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: that fact about them attacking you from the back, that
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: is how they attack people, not from the front but
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: from the back, so they're that smart.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: That's a dirty but I
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: mean it was your fault.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: You threw a French fry
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: 10. What was I supposed to do? You see, they know,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: they know that you're gonna do that. That was a
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: tactic strategy.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because a French fry became a French fly and
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: they fly at you, right? OK, never mind,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: too soon, too soon. So, OK, tell us more about
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: this episode of Talking.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: OK, so, so in Singapore, you know, it's we live
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: in an urban city and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, we've had to deal with different pests. So I've
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: done stories on rats, on monkeys, on pigeons, and this
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: time crows because the population has been growing quite significantly. So, so, OK,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: about 10 years ago, there were around 7000 crows. Guess
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: how many crows there are now?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: 20,000.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: 160,000.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that's right, that's right. So it's a bit shocking, you know. So,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: so we decided that on talking point, we want to
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: find out what's going on, why this is happening, and
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Give everyone a I guess a crow by crow
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: account.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: But, but why are crows thriving
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: in Singapore? OK,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: so, so that really is the question. So, OK, so
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: as you mentioned, there are ways to to keep the
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: population down. First of all, in the whole ecosystem, crows
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: are way up there and actually
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: There are only a few bigger birds that can that
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: are their predators, yeah, but in Singapore we have hardly
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: any of those. So actually we human beings are their
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: main predators when we set traps, when we shoot, you know, um,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: as a result, they are left free to roam because
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: they're king of the country, right? No, no one else
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: above them.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: They are ruling the country right now
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and that's why it's grown, but they've become more bold.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: They're living in an urban environment. They, they love Singapore
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: for the.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Same reasons we do, you know, it's clean, it's green.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: There's political stability. OK, maybe they don't need political stability,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean, yeah, and,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: food is everywhere
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: because they're very smart, and look, this happens very often
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: in the hawker centers. Like they know we're going to
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: finish our food and there'll be some leftovers, right? They
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: will sit on the rail and wait. Once we leave, bam,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: they're there immediately.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: So I'm so curious because of the mixed reviews about
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: how crow culling is happening, right? Um, are there any
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: other options at all? Like people are like giving this
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: mixed reviews,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think to be clear, this is a
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: last resort. So, so traps are the main ones. Those
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: trap a few, you know, it's just that the crows
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: after a while figure out that this is a trap,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: They see a few of their friends and they're like, Hey,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: you guys have been there for days, man. OK, not
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: a good idea to go in, you know. So they've
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: got to relocate the trap somewhere else and start over again. Uh,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: another thing we did on the show is we actually,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: they actually removed nest eggs. So they go and remove
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: the eggs of their young, so no new crows are born,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean they all put down in a
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: very humane way, but
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: This is one of the measures to uh keep the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: population down, and then shooting is really the last resort,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: but it's it's not as effective. I mean, we went to, uh,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: they showed us a shooting in action, uh, took quite
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: a few hours, you know, they, yeah, it's been on
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the news. They only shot a few. So I mean
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: if you think about time versus the numbers you get,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: it's actually not worthwhile in that sense. But in this case,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I think we're realizing that
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Everything needs to be done to help keep the crow
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: population down because if we don't, then it's really gonna
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: get out of hand.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's gotten to the point now where the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: crows about the traps. I, I don't know because they
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: used to put in the field where I live and
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the first week, yeah, there were like 1 or 2
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: crows inside there. The 3rd or subsequent week, nothing.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: So, so, so this is one of the things we
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: look at. So, OK, monkeys, pigeons, rats, crows. Who's the smartest?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Who do you think?
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: monkeys, of course it'll be
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: crows because we
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: were doing the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: shows, monkeys. Yeah,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: so, so monkeys are very good at trial and error.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: They'll see what
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: they're doing,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: they'll adapt, they'll try doing it themselves until they figure
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: it out. Pigeons, pigeons have an inbuilt like GPS. That's
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: why we call them homing pigeons, right?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Rats, rats are good at mazes, so they look at
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: a trap, they figure out, hm, hm, let me look
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: at it from the side. I can still get the
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: food without getting trapped. Crows, all of that, plus they
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: can do long term planning.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: So they figure all these guys are doing all these things. Oh,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: let me think. If I think ahead, what should I
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: do next and they can teach their fellow crows.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: So
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the term bird doesn't apply to them, you know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: really. No, no, this one is big big bird.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Sorry,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Joakim is still, I can see the look on his face, yeah,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: but that's as a result, their community is going to
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: take a break right now.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Man has done so much research all in the name
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of CNA's Talking Point. Love it. OK, so today we're
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: tackling the crow issue. The episode's coming out very soon.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And I wanna ask, does it also tackle why people
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: enjoy feeding birds and feeding the crows?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I mean all the animals I've worked on, we have
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: discovered that feeding is one of the main issues. All
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: the birds, the rats and all that, no one feeds rats,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: but people do not willingly, but pigeons and, you know,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: and crows, people do actually feed them, um.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: We haven't really gone into that issue, but yes, we
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: have discovered that quite often people do it because they
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: enjoy the company of these animals, you know, and you
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: become this friend because they reckon the animals, the birds
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: recognize you, they'll come and see you and you feel
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: like
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: you
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: commands
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: we're doing the pigeon, we heard of this guy who
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: would open the windows to his flat and lay out
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: like a buffet.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Every day at 3 o'clock, there'll be like whatever food,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: you know, and all the birds will come in. That's good. Yeah,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: so as a result, they learn that they're being fed
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: and they keep coming back and they hang out there. OK,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: so if he's doing this in the privacy of privacy
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: of his home.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Are they able to take action? Well,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I mean we say don't feed, then I think people
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: know they shouldn't be, but yeah, what can you do
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: if you're doing it? I mean this is a whole
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: separate issue. I think we don't want to have to,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: there there are fines. You can be fined, but yeah,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: so many stories about that
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: but the whole idea is, you know, try and, I
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: think we need to help these people understand.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And that really there are other ways, other ways to
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: find a bit of
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a companionship. Like Steve, he loves to talk.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Just talk to him.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we wanted to ask, we're in the middle of
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: it on TikTok Live as well. Since they are trying
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to have um active take active steps to to control
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the population of crows, right?
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: And do you have like a goal, for example, in
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: 3 to 5 years, they want to take the population
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: down to a certain number since you said it, it
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: blew up to 100 over 1000 to 5 or 4.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, it's hard to say and I
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: think right now the challenge is even with all the
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: methods being
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Employed, we're not really able to control the population from
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: increasing because as we discover, food is the main reason
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: why they stay and the food is in abundance. If
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: there's food, they are able to be comfortable, live happily,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: and breed, you know. So, um, in the show, I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: don't think we have a real solution, except looking at
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: the fact that it's a food and how maybe we
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: can like our trade return system, it's open air for
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: them also, right?
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So maybe there needs to be another way of returning
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: our food. Maybe we need to be doing like in the,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you know, in the army, you have to clean everything
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: off your plate in different buckets or whatever. I mean,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, uh, but really, really food seems to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: be the main issue here because as long as there's food,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: there will be crows.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: What else did you learn from this wrap the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: crows? Yeah, yeah. So, so essentially, I mean, it's, um, yeah,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: it's just amazing how smart they are, and I think
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: it's also about the fact that they've learned to adapt
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: to our urban environment. So they live here because we
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: are part of it, um.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I, I think the crows also learn who is the
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: scaredy cat, so-called, you know, like.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: They can
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: look at your face
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: roaches.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: They recognize the look, this guy, if I fly to him,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: he will, he will die,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: right? Yeah,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: whereas if another guy is fierce back to them, actually they,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: they will realize that I shouldn't this guy, I shouldn't
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: come to this guy.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, we realized that with monkeys as well, you got
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: to show them who's
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: boss,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: you know. But, but could it be a situation where, OK,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: maybe one crow to one guy, not enough. I'll call
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: 7
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of my friends to go and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: gang, gang up on you,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: exactly like the otters and the crocodile. I saw that video.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I will honestly,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I mean they could, they could. They are that smart,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: is really about the food source to begin with and
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I think how we react to them. So be, be
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: bold and say, hey, get away, you know, the loud
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: voice and show them and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: yeah, if you
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: hear Joakim's voice around Bishan, you know what he's doing.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: He's trying to make himself bigger. You won't just hear
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: me in Bishan, you'll hear me in Pasir Ris.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: That's right,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Joakim, you need to be courageous.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I felt that coming. I was like, upset with Steve
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: is not complete until he drops the final that joke.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's something I would.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Can you please let us know what
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: time the episode?
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: It's actually tonight, today is Thursday, right? Yeah, Thursday night,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: 9:30 p.m. on Channel 5, of course, catch it on
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: me as well and after that on YouTube and yeah,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, let us know what you think, if you
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: have thoughts, and I'm gonna be trying to do some
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: TikTok videos too. So as I embark on my TikTok.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: that that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: video of you in the crow trap was
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: quite interesting, yeah,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: it was called entrapment, of
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: course, no other way.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Alright, Steve, thank you. Always a pleasure for you being here. Um,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: you're like our 3rd host by now, as you know.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: You're always welcome to come. Steve to crow somewhere else, yeah.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: You know what, Joe Crow Joe is gonna stick for
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the rest of your life. I'm so sorry.