Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Aligning The Outside And The Inside with Sunshine Grace

Transcript

Aligning The Outside And The Inside with Sunshine Grace · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Guy McPherson.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So five, four, three, two, one. All right, folks, welcome
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: guest today, Sunshine Grace. Sunshine, welcome.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Guy. It's great to be here.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Sunshine is relationship coach, wellness guide, and collaborator
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: with Betting on Love, a platform devoted to helping people
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: create more conscious, connected, and emotionally healthy relationships. Her work
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: focuses on emotional healing, self-awareness, vulnerability, and transformational power of
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: authentic connection. Through coaching, conversations, and wellness-centered practices, she encourages
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: individuals to move beyond old relational patterns and cultivate deeper
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: intimacy with themselves and others. Alongside the Betting on Love community,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: she helps people approach love not as fantasy or performance,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: but as a path of growth, presence, and emotional truth.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: All right, Sunshine, obviously just a little bit about you.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Before we get going, share with our listeners where you're
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: from originally and where you are currently.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Sure. I'm originally from Sheridan, Montana, and I currently live
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: in Austin, Texas.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. All right. Well, let's dive in here.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: How did all this start?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, in full transparency, Guy, as you were reading that bio,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I was wondering, who wrote that? I don't... Did you
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: write that? Because it doesn't sound familiar to me.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Is it correct? What do you mean it's not correct?
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: It's just words I'd never heard before.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, I pulled that from your website. Okay, so we'll
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: have to obviously... I'm so sorry. do a new bio
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: um so what what we'll stop here send me that's
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: so strange um let me just mark the time here
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: okay so just send me a new bio i'll record
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: it and we'll just put it in front here thank
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: you okay so we'll start here um all right so
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: share with the listeners again where you're from originally and
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: where you are currently.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Originally from sheridan montana And I live in Austin, Texas.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. All right. So, yeah. So how did this
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: all start for you?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Well, Guy, I guess I want to say before I
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: dive into the story that a couple things about myself
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: that might be helpful for listeners. And the first is
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: just to say to the listener's audience, you may hear
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: some things during this interview that seem far-fetched. And I
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: have this heartfelt request to you to listen with an
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: open mind and take my word as, as true. Um,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: so I'm, I'm almost 50. I have nine and a
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: half years experience in the Navy as I'm a 100%
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: disabled veteran. I spent 10 years in corporate working with
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: high functioning teams and I retired early at 43. I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: raised a daughter. And I share these things to give
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: the audience a feel for kind of my life trajectory
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: and how grounded it's been. My master's degree is in
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: research psychology and I moved to Austin in 2018 and
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: identified as an atheist at the time. And then life
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: just took these really hard, I took really hard tumbles
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: for several years from a mental health perspective. It's like
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get a break. The waves just kept coming.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: And I share that because I think that was part
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: of what led into the crisis I'm about to describe.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Well, when you say tumbles, what does that mean? You
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: took tumbles.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe the best way to answer that
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: question is between... I didn't have this language at the time, Guy,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: but I had complex PTSD. I had reoccurring nightmares. about
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: not being able to get off the aircraft carrier I
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: was stationed on, which I learned later was due to
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: seven counts of sexual assault on active duty. I had....
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: While you were on active duty, there were seven counts?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: The term is military sexual trauma. I had a really
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: horrible relationship after having some really great relationships, mostly great
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: relationships in my life. I had a one-year... relationship during
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: the pandemic that was just so painful. And at one point,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I had what is kind of considered like a flashback,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: but there's no memory associated with it. And in complex
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: trauma terms, it's like a complex PTSD flashback. And I
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: couldn't live in my body. I went to go get
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a gun and take my life. Luckily, that didn't happen.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I called the VA suicide hotline instead and the angel
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: on the other side kept me from from doing that
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: so it was just it was just I was just
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: getting beat up and now I can say it was
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of unresolved trauma but I was still
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: recovering from that when I turned to do ayahuasca for
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the first time and that took me down to Costa
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Rica and so now we're talking.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Hold on, Sunshine. I want to get this sequenced. So you,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: did you do Navy first and then corporate or corporate
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: then Navy? Navy, corporate. Okay. When did you get out
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: of corporate?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I retired at 43 in 2019. Okay.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: All right. And When you retired, when did this attempted
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: or kind of attempted suicide happen?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Let's see, when was the pandemic?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I think 2021, 2022. 20, 2020? Yeah, okay, okay. So
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: on the heels of that, you were like, what, I
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: need to try something? Were you in therapy? Had you
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: sought any kind of help? Any kind of quote-unquote therapy?
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did touch base with a therapist here
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: in Austin, and she did see me and support me
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: through that crisis, the suicidal crisis. I don't remember how
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: long I saw her for, but maybe six months, maybe
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: not even a year. I did start working with psychedelics
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: around that time during the pandemic, and Mostly it was
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: psilocybin mushrooms, but I dabbled in others. And then when
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I heard about ayahuasca, I just had this pulling from
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: my gut, like a rope pulling me. It was a
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: physical sensation, and so I registered for a retreat down
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: in Costa Rica, and it was facilitated by two Shipibo-Kanibo curanderos,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: which is the name of the tribe in the Amazon.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And it was a well-respected husband and wife. And it
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: was also orchestrated by a very well-respected organization. Gabor Mate
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: and Dennis McKenna were on the board of directors. So
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't do a lot of research because I just thought, okay,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: if those people are on the board of directors, it's
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: probably upstanding. Yeah.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Got to be good. And the goal here, Sunshine, was what?
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: To seek relief?
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Actually, it was a pretty narrow intention. It was actually to...
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: heal the pain and suffering I've been experiencing in my
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: relationship with my mom my whole life, which was now
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I would say a lot of attachment wounds, mostly anxious
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: attachment with her. And that week is when my story
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: really starts because I started hearing a voice in ceremony
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: that was pedagogical. It was profoundly compassionate. It was intelligent,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: it knew all my thoughts, and we were speaking like
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: you and I. And I just thought, okay, that's the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: spirit of ayahuasca. That's what the culture and the Amazon
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: might have said. I did have many, many telepathic conversations
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: and mystical experiences down there that, you know, just kind
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: of blow the mind. And my sense of safety in
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: what I conceived of as reality started to unravel because
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I kept checking in after because the ceremonies would be
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: from seven at night till three in the morning and
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: we're sitting in this hut and these shamans are singing
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: their ikaros you know going around and maybe 20 passengers
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: 20 participants and a couple facilitators and and in the
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: mornings I would check in with the other participants and
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: they weren't having the kinds of experiences I was having
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: which actually was triggering for me because it made it
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: reminded me of so many mixed feelings I have from
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: childhood of being special to the teacher but not connected
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: to my peers and I remember you the correlation between
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: telepathy and ayahuasca and learned that there is an enzyme
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: in ayahuasca called telepathine because it can elicit telepathic experiences.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: So I thought, okay, I'm not crazy. I'm actually having
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: these conversations through my mind with these shamans, and I
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: would verify them during the daytime.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So hang on, hang on. So you're talking about telepathic
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: experiences that were outside of the ayahuasca experience you were
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: having at night? So during the day, you would have
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: these other telepathic experiences?
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. That was confusing. No, the telepathy was
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: happening only in ceremony. After the next day, I would
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: ask about it. And that's when I started.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Got it, got it.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And these shamans knew my past and knew these big,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: what they call sustos, or the big frights or scares
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: in your life, what we would call trauma, and showed
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: me at least one major trauma that I wasn't aware of. And...
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: That whole week was both so magical and so awe-inspiring,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: but so unsettling and disorienting. And maybe the most important
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: thing to share that week, because this is a thread
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: that I don't want to lose, is that in one
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: of the night ceremonies, the shaman was sitting in front
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: of me, and his name is Maestro Americo. And I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: had pulled to the front of my yoga mat, and
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I was sitting there just as a sign of respect
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: with my hands in prayer mode, and we were communicating
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: back and forth with our minds. And he's singing in Quechua,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: which is their native language, and he speaks a little Spanish.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I don't speak Spanish, but I can recognize the language,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and I certainly don't speak Quechua. So there's definitely a
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: language barrier. But telepathy is such a natural state. There's
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: part of me that didn't even... really question it because
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: it felt so natural and he showed me an image
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: of two figures on the horizon and there was a
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: woman who was pregnant and then behind her a smaller
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: image of a silhouette of a man and the message
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: that came with the images was these are some of
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: your past lives now keep in mind I'm an atheist
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: so and I I guess I just accepted that as truth.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And I said, that's really beautiful that I could have
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: been a biological, I was a biological mom in a
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: past life. Because in this life, my daughter's my stepdaughter.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I can't conceive. And then the images disappeared. And I said,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Maestro Americo, can you show me more past lives? And
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: he said, I'm sorry, it's not relevant. And I was like, bummer.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, can you show me future lives then?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: And this was all, again, telepathically during the ceremony.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: And he said, Sunshine, I'm sorry, you don't have any.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: And when he said that, this like, I can still
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: feel it now, this wave of sadness ran through me.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Because the only... one of the only few things I
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: knew about Buddhism at the time was the idea of
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a Bodhisattva, which is a soul that doesn't stop incarnating
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: for the sake of helping others until everyone is enlightened.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And that was the only connection I had. And so
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I assumed what he was saying was, in this life,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: you'll fully awaken. And I thought, there's no way possible.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And I burst into tears because I, one, didn't think
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: it was possible, and two, certainly didn't believe I was worthy.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And that's important to share because what ensued for the next, well,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm four years into this now, and I'm
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: technically still in the illness, in the shamanic illness. What's
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: important for me to convey is that when someone goes
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: through a spiritual emergency of the shamanic style, which I'm
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: certainly not a shaman, just happens to be the way
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the universe decided to wake me up, the initiate is
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: exposed to this fierce grace that shows them things that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: are possible in this life that they would have never
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: conceived of without that experience. And that was the seed
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: that put me on the path of waking up in
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: this lifetime.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So is it safe to say that you left that
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: experience or left that setting, what? Unsettled?
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: That's an understatement.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's an understatement. Okay, so traumatized, scared?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: It felt like WTF. And it felt like the whole
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: ground of reality was just crumbling below me. And there
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: was some sense of spiritual superiority, like, ooh, cool, I've
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: had these experiences and I'm special, which is totally normal
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: when you have a spiritual emergency. Now I know this.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: But it was disorienting and also profoundly amazing. Because when
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I got back to Austin, the duration or the intensity
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: of the communication increased. And it would happen during.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Telepathic?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: With a voice that's not embodied.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Got it. Okay. I... I didn't know what to make
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: of it, but I knew it started to teach me
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: in my dreams at night. And I call these teaching dreams.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And actually, the dreams being, how do I say this?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Receiving dreams regularly is a very typical element of shamanic awakenings.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And so I have received these teaching dreams regularly. almost
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: every night now for four years. They've been a huge
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: blessing because they show me things that I wouldn't be
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: aware of. Blind spots in myself, compassion for others, things
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: in my unconscious. It was the teaching dreams that showed
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: me that I had military sexual trauma that I had repressed.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So these teaching dreams are a huge, huge gift. Those started,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: and in the earlier days, maybe the first six months
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: or so, the voice was also communicating with me in
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: my waking states. So like you and I talking right now.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: And I asked so many times, what are you? Are
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you the spirit of ayahuasca? Like, come on, yesterday I
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: was an atheist. I don't know what the hell's happening here.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: And I got many no answers many times. And 14
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: months into the journey, I went back down to South America,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: to Peru, and sat in another week-long ayahuasca retreat. Different shamans,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: different facilitator, but same style, Shipibo. And I get into
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: my little cocoon space on my yoga mat, and I...
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: By that time, Guy, I had been experiencing what in
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: South America they call pruebas, which is Spanish for tests.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So my experiences with this voice were both loving and
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: intensely truth. They felt like truth and also dangerous and brutal.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And I couldn't reconcile both. why would something good be mean?
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: And so when I, go.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Ahead, go ahead. Pause here, Sunshine. This is very intense.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So what did those initial guides make of this? How
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: did they explain this? Because from my limited understanding, people
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: experience these things differently during these ayahuasca experiences, right? Some people,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: for whatever reasons, have positive. Some people can have negative experiences.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: But it sounds like yours was, what, safe to say unique?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know how common it is, but it's... it's
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: not the standard experience.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: What was their understanding of this? How did they make
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: meaning of this as you were the guides?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, the facilitators?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, facilitators.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Well, there's limited access to them after the experience. I could, but.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Isn't there like an integration period?
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: There is. You can, and I did reach out to, they, they,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: they connect you with a therapist and you get one,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I think one session, like one 30, 30 or 40 minutes,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: 45 minute session. And I did communicate with him and he,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: he had a lot of compassion for me, but he
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: could also tell I was very, um, dysregulated and, um,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: He tried to help me, but I needed much more
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: support than what is under their responsibility or their umbrella
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: of offering. Okay.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Isn't it their responsibility to sit with you afterwards and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: integrate and talk about what happened?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe one conversation. If you want more, you pay. And
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: money was really tight for me at the time.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So I didn't have access to ongoing therapy, which was
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: really a big part of why this was hard. But
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: when I did go back down, and I'm doing a
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: time check. Are we 24 minutes into this? Wow, time's flying. Okay.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: We're good. I want to find out what the heck's
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: going on. So you went back.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, you went back down.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Because, guy, my math... Damn, girl. When you're desperate, thank you.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was courageous. I mean, I
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: was desperate. Right.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Desperate for what?
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: For answers, for clarity. I mean, I was asking the
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: voice in my waking states and in my dreams, what
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: are you? And one time the answer was.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I am not here, or spirit is not here, spirit
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: is not there, spirit is everywhere. And I was like, okay.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Another time, the voice said, spirit is in everything. And
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I understand that to be the unified
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: field of intelligence, what some might call God or source.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So I'm hearing the voice of the unified field. And
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I had kind of on my own, after a lot
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: of research, reading Iliade and Sandra Ingerman and everybody I
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: could get my hands on, went back down because I
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: knew this cultural layer was blocking me from having access
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to the truth of what was happening.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I looked like I was in psychosis because in the
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: 14 months between the first retreat and the second retreat,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I went through those pre-waves I was mentioning, the tests,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: they got really intense. It turned into apocalyptic nightmares. I
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: started living out of my car. My family couldn't reach me.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I thought the world was ending. I was actually tricked
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm doing air quotes. I was tricked.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I was manipulated into doing something really devastating to my body,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: which I'm not ready to talk about, but I think
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: my process of writing this book I'll start this year
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: will get into detail. And so I was experiencing a
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: physical crisis, but was too embarrassed to go to the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: emergency room because I knew they labeled me as pathological.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm educated enough to know what this looks
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: like And yet I was having these other experiences in
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the dreams where in near-death experience language, they call it
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: the love experience, where I would wake up from sleeping
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: at night and my whole body would be filled with
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: this intense, pure, unconditional love that would make me so
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: emotional and filled with beauty that I couldn't speak for
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: like a day or I'd cry.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Sunshine, this sounds like a roller coaster. I mean, this
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: sounds on one end of the continuum like someone might
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: say substance-induced psychosis. But at the other end of the continuum,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: an incredible experience that you had with ayahuasca. How did
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: you stay, dare I, can I use the word sane?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: How did you stay sane? Were you grounded?
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: How did you keep it together? So, Guy, I didn't
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: stay grounded because the nature of... So if we look
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: at a pie, and we say the pie is spiritual
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: emergencies and different natures, say kundalini awakenings, and some are
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: maybe psychedelic, psychic openings. The shamanic piece of the pie is,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I would say, maybe I'm biased, the most extreme version
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: of it. of a spiritual emergency. And my case was
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: especially extreme. The people who experienced more extreme cases than
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I did, aren't alive anymore. My mind broke. I should
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: have been in a hospital for care for my body.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I tell people, and I had an existential crisis happening
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: at the same time. And I, and I, I wasn't
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: reachable to my friends and family, and they weren't reachable
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: to me because we didn't speak the same language anymore.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: And I didn't have the language at the time to
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: put this in the context that it deserved. And so
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I journeyed alone for a long time and just used
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: YouTube and books and a couple friends and support here
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: and there to get through this. And eventually when I
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: went back down at the 14-month mark, I get into
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: my cocoon on my mat and I said, can I
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: cuss on here? I've got a lot of fucking questions.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Who are you? And the voice shows me a picture
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: of the globe from outer space. And the tree of
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: life from African folklore grows out of the North Pole
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and the branches grow all around the globe. And then
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: this presence zooms me down to the earth level. And
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: we are standing underneath what feels like the Amazon jungle.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And the light's filtering through the overstory. And then this
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: vine drops down and hits the ground with a thud.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And another vine, and another vine, another vine. And the
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: voice allows me to feel into this vine. the one
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: on my left closest to me, and it's protected. It's
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: like unimpenetrable. And the voice says, do you see, this
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: is ayahuasca. This is Catholicism. This is Hinduism. This is 5-MeO-DMT,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: which is a psychedelic, for those who don't know. This
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: is science. And they all lead to truth. and they're
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: all sacred. Yours just happens to be ayahuasca. And I said,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: thank you for such a beautiful imagery, but I've always
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: been an omnis. I've always known, even as an atheist,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that all religions point to the same center. I said,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: the bigger question is, I'll repeat it, what is on
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: the other side of the vine? What am I speaking to?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And the voice says, The divine. And I said, so
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to... You got the joke. Divine. Divine. It
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: took me two years to get that joke because my
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: nervous system was dysregulated. But I said, so I'm talking
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: to God? And the voice said, yes. And I said,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: so the Hindus were right? That God's like a unified field?
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: And the voice said, yes. And then, and that's when
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I started calling it spirit. And then spirit said, do
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: you want to know what your soul's archetype is? And
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I said, souls have archetypes? And the voice said, yes.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, yeah, that would sure help me
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: a lot to know what I'm supposed to be doing
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: in this lifetime. And the voice spelled a word that
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I don't share because I don't, I It sounds pretentious
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: to me. And it starts with a P. And I said,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I actually don't know what that word means.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Does it mean this? And the voice says, no. And
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I said, does it mean this? And the voice says, no.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, can you please use another word
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: that I know? And that word disappears. And then the
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: voice writes medium. And I said, I'm a medium? And
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: the voice said, yes. And I said, holy shit. Is
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: that why I've been hearing other people's snippets, fragments of
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: conversation around me when I fall asleep at night? And
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the voice says, yes. And when I say I hear fragments,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: it's like, babe, pass the ketchup. It's nothing helpful. I
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: can't do anything with this information anymore. And so I
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: would go on to spend a couple years in weekly therapy,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: studying HSP, which is highly sensitive persons. So for the
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: audience that doesn't know what HSP is really about, it's
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: our nervous systems are highly sensitive. We don't have filters
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: to filter out light and sound and energy the way
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: most people do. So people's energy hits me really hard,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: and I wear blue blocker glasses, and I always protect
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: my hearing. But we know that we can only see
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: and hear 1% of the light and sound spectrum, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: HSPs can see and hear more. So I eventually would,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: as I continued to heal trauma and work with my
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: therapist and integrate, realize that what I was doing when
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I was speaking to this voice, I was channeling. I
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: just never thought of it like that because it just
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: felt like talking with a friend. But I would always
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: write everything down on my phone because I always wanted
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: to share the profound wisdom that I hear when Spirit
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and I speak, which is what my film work is about.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Because when I speak publicly, I record it and I
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: turn it into a film because I share what I
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: have learned from Spirit, why we're here, what we're doing,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: how to get out of suffering. Wow.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: All right. So damn intense sunshine. So let's, let's bring
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: it to present day here. So what is betting on
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: love and how, how and when did you put this together?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I was still pretty deep in the shamanic illness when
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: spirit said, gave me a tip that was really helpful.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Spirit said, make your, your outsides match your insides. And
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: what I understood that to mean was I'm holding all
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: of this, all these experiences, the darkness of it, and
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: all the light by myself and my therapist and a
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: couple friends. And so I needed to start expressing because
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I was backed up. So I started a YouTube channel
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: actually when I was still in the illness and For
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: two reasons. One, I wanted to connect with people who
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: understood me. And two, I knew that I was channeling
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: such deep wisdom that I wanted to share it. And
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I was hoping I could be a light in the
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: darkness for people who were earlier, in earlier stages of
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: their spiritual emergencies. So that YouTube channel is at Sunshine
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: underscore Grace. And I'm so grateful. I just hit, I think, 40,000 subscribers.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: That's where most of my philanthropic or volunteer work and
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: time go, is into making films and speaking publicly. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: then I have a nonprofit I'm actually starting this year.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to move all that work into the nonprofit.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: And keep my LLC for just the channeling portions because
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I do do one-on-one sessions with people. So that's really
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: what betting on love is.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Your channeling work you do with people. So people would
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: come to you and what? Say, I want to communicate
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: with someone who's... whatever people term they use, on the
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: other side or deceased or passed on. And in this
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: story you've just told, is your awakening to your purpose
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: and place while you're here?
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad you asked that, Guy, because when you
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: get far enough out of the suffering part of spiritual emergencies,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and you can start to see all the gifts you've gotten.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Psychic abilities are just one of the types of gifts,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: but the other couple main things they do is one,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it puts you onto a path of seeking really important
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: truths in life that maybe you weren't interested in before.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: With shamanic illness, Traditionally, the person who goes through the tormenting,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: what's happening, and this is really important for me to
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: share with people because I don't think there are many
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: insider looks at what's actually happening, the dynamic of what's
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: happening in shamanic illness, but you're being shown, not always gently,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: but you're being shown all of your trauma, and you're
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: being shown your judgments of others, and you're being shown
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: your lack of self-regard for yourself and self-love, and where
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: it takes you through, it takes you through all these
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: experiences to kind of see all this stuff through awareness.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And you start working, if you start working with it,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: you do get gifts. And on the other side of it,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: for me, I don't know that this is everybody's path,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: but for me, what I've come to discover in my
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: own learning, maybe most clearly reflected in Buddhism, because it
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: tends to be the most direct path, but all wisdom
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: traditions and religions say the same thing, if you get
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: to the heart of them, the esoteric center, which is
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: that the true nature of reality is both that we
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: are separate and we are also all connected. And this,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: what they call the ground of being, or what I'll
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: just call spirit or consciousness, this is actually inside the
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: core of everyone. And when you do enough taking out
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: the trash or the silliness, the trauma, what's left over
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: is this much more pure center. And we feel it
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: in our bodies as joy and peace and compassion. And
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: mindfulness practices and contemplative practices go a long way in
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: this journey of healing trauma because it's like shining when
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: you sit on the cushion and you're just watching your
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: thoughts float by like a cloud, you're learning to not
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: associate with all these things that used to hook you
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: and just cause all this suffering. So for me, I've
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: had some, I think it's very normal to say anybody
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: who's a genuine seeker have had amazing peak experiences. But
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: for me, what it's really about is embodying the lessons
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: that Spirit's been teaching me for four years, not just
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: sharing them with others. I mean, that's important. But my
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: whole life has changed as I've become more aware of
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: the importance of humility, compassion. Like one time I was
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: judging someone in my mind and Spirit said, Sunshine, just
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: look for ways to be more compassionate. And now every
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: time I see, because I meditate, I know all my
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: thoughts in my mind. There's not a thought I have
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: that I don't know, I'm not aware of. And when
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: a thought goes by that's judgmental, because we have so
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: much cultural layering, I stop in that and just take
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: two or three seconds to look for the dignity and
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: the humanity in that person and check myself. Those thoughts
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: are what create our reality.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: All right. Sunshine, I'm going to have.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: To have you back.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I feel there's a lot more to talk about, and
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I'd love to have you back. How do people learn
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: more about you and your work and all of your work?
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: What's the best way?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Well, they can go to my YouTube channel, Sunshine underscore Grace.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I sincerely request if you go, please, if you watch
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: the films, leave a comment, share, subscribe, and like. That
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: is the language of support in the YouTube universe. That
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: means so much to me, especially comments. I am writing
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: a book starting this year. It's called There's No Limit
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: to Compassion. And when that does get released, if it's
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: on your heart, to read it, to share it, especially
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: with people who hear voices. That's amazing. And then I
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: want to share just a couple resources, and I'm aiming
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: this specifically at clinicians. If you're listening to this and
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: you're trauma-informed but you're not spiritual emergency-informed, the international and
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: then the domestic version of Spiritual Emergency Network, does training
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: for therapists on how to support people in spiritual emergencies,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: as well as Emma Bragdon's Integrative Mental Health Institute, sorry,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Integrative Mental Health University, IMHU, And then the Hearing Voices Network.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of overlap. So check out them. And
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: they have an annual conference. So please go support them
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: and get educated.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And I'll have each of those linked up here at
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the show notes page at the traumatherapistpodcast.com. Sunshine, I appreciate you.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: You're amazing.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: We'll be in touch. Take care.