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Cigarette Burns, Lux Rides & Penthouse Apartments; Depp v. Heard: Round 2 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Johnny Depp versus Amber heard
0:18
Speaker 1: It's still going yes in a court of law. I
0:22
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime story. Thank you for being
0:24
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation. And Sirius XM one eleven,
0:29
Speaker 1: Captain Jack Sparrow's side is still giving it two in
0:35
Speaker 1: the last hour. Is a security guard Travis McGivern on
0:39
Speaker 1: the stand now a talent manager and he goes on
0:43
Speaker 1: and on and all. But I want you to take
0:44
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty seven. This is witness
0:48
Speaker 1: Tara Roberts. What happened after they went back up to
0:52
Speaker 1: the house. Um, c J and I were still in
0:57
Speaker 1: the office and weren't really sure. Decided that maybe it
1:02
Speaker 1: would be best if we just drove up there, just
1:04
Speaker 1: to make sure that everything was okay. You could hear them,
1:09
Speaker 1: and you can hear them inside. You could hear inside
1:12
Speaker 1: the house yelling her Amber yelling and Johnny answering back,
1:20
Speaker 1: and you could really hear what was being said. We
1:24
Speaker 1: stood there for a couple of minutes CJ and myself,
1:26
Speaker 1: and then then you started to hear it became audible.
1:32
Speaker 1: Amber was telling him that he was washed up actor,
1:37
Speaker 1: he was gonna die a lonely, fat, lonely old man.
1:40
Speaker 1: Then you heard you hit me with a can. You
1:43
Speaker 1: heard Johnny say you hit me with a can. You know,
1:47
Speaker 1: but I would put witnesses on the stand or cross
1:50
Speaker 1: examine witnesses the other side had brought. I would always
1:53
Speaker 1: look for detail. Is their story rich in detail? Do
1:59
Speaker 1: they mention that is? They likely wouldn't dream up like um,
2:04
Speaker 1: Then it started raining, or it suddenly got cloudy, or
2:10
Speaker 1: I heard a car screech breaks, and then just the
2:14
Speaker 1: way a description is given. You know, what is interesting
2:20
Speaker 1: to me about Tara Roberts testimony on the stand is
2:24
Speaker 1: that she says, at first you could hear yelling. You
2:27
Speaker 1: could tell that it was Amber Heard and Johnny Depp,
2:30
Speaker 1: and then suddenly it became audible in that I can
2:34
Speaker 1: make out the words Amber Heard was telling Dipp he
2:37
Speaker 1: was a quote washed up actor going to die a fat,
2:41
Speaker 1: lonely old man. And then I heard, quote, you hit
2:45
Speaker 1: me with a can. Depp said you hit me with
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Speaker 1: a can. The way she described that sequence is very
2:55
Speaker 1: telling to me because if the detail involved when making
3:00
Speaker 1: up a story, very often you don't hear that kind
3:04
Speaker 1: of detail. Again, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
3:08
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nations
3:10
Speaker 1: Series one eleven. The Depth trial is raging? Is Captain
3:16
Speaker 1: Jack Sparrow in trouble with me? And I'll start panel
3:19
Speaker 1: and make sense of what we know right now. Daryl Cohen,
3:23
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
3:27
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists. You can find to her
3:30
Speaker 1: at angela Arnold MD dot com. John Gard chief deputy
3:36
Speaker 1: at the Pitt County Sheriff's Office specializing in domestic violence cases.
3:42
Speaker 1: But first to Alexis terres Chuck Crime online dot com,
3:45
Speaker 1: investigative reporter on the case from the very beginning. Alexis,
3:48
Speaker 1: what has been happening today in Core give me a rundown?
3:53
Speaker 1: So Johnny Depp's side is still teptifine. He is still
3:57
Speaker 1: presenting his case. This morning. We have had his security guard,
4:02
Speaker 1: Travis McGinnis, and he is talking about a big fight
4:08
Speaker 1: and that there's been testimony and Amber has said that
4:12
Speaker 1: her sister stepped in between Johnny and Amber during a fight,
4:17
Speaker 1: and the security guard said that is not true. The
4:20
Speaker 1: sister was not in between them, because I was in
4:23
Speaker 1: between them, and he is the security guard that was
4:25
Speaker 1: his security guard for many, many years. So he is
4:27
Speaker 1: once again shooting down Amber's claims of what happened during
4:30
Speaker 1: all of these fights, and she brought her sister into it,
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Speaker 1: who was there at the time, and Johnny side, this
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Speaker 1: security guard is saying, Nope, that isn't true. Here is
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Speaker 1: what really happened. I was there. I was the one
4:41
Speaker 1: in the middle of it, trying to make sure that
4:42
Speaker 1: Johnny and Amber weren't going to fight with each other.
4:45
Speaker 1: And notably, now you have to consider the source when
4:51
Speaker 1: you're listening to testimony by a long time Johnny Depth
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Speaker 1: security guard who was clearly Depth's friend but also makes
4:59
Speaker 1: his living off Depp as a security guard. Does that
5:02
Speaker 1: mean he's not telling the truth. Nope. But you always
5:05
Speaker 1: look for a pecuniary or money interest or any interest
5:09
Speaker 1: whatsoever when a witnesses. A witness is testifying to determine credibility.
5:14
Speaker 1: So what he is saying this, Travis McGivern, is that
5:18
Speaker 1: Amber heard punched Depp on the left side of his face,
5:25
Speaker 1: which I would wonder is she right handed to punch somebody?
5:29
Speaker 1: If you're right handed, you'll normally land the blow. On
5:32
Speaker 1: their left side of the face. But she is not
5:36
Speaker 1: being tried for abusing him. The trial right now is
5:41
Speaker 1: to determine was she telling the truth when she said
5:45
Speaker 1: she had been abused by Depp. Now to you, Daryl
5:49
Speaker 1: co enjoining me, longtime prosecutor now civil and criminal defense attorney, Daryl.
5:56
Speaker 1: This witness McGivern. Travis McGivern is stating that Amber's sister's
6:04
Speaker 1: account was wrong. But to my knowledge, Amber's sister has
6:10
Speaker 1: not testified. Maybe she was brought up in opening statements
6:14
Speaker 1: by the defense, which could open the door. But you've
6:18
Speaker 1: got to go through a lot of legal hurdles to
6:20
Speaker 1: impeach someone's testimony that hasn't testified. Nancy, this is a
6:26
Speaker 1: great trial. I love it. Nobody's going to go to prison,
6:30
Speaker 1: nobody's going to be acquitted or convicted. It's just about
6:33
Speaker 1: money and it's a soap opera. It's Hollywood coming from
6:36
Speaker 1: Los Angeles to Virginia. Wouldn't you love to be a
6:39
Speaker 1: juror on this trial. You'll write a book. It'll be fabulous.
6:43
Speaker 1: But let's talk about it now. You and I have
6:45
Speaker 1: very different opinions I guess as to what it means
6:49
Speaker 1: to be on a trial, you immediately said, write a book. Okay,
6:53
Speaker 1: so you're a Hollywood lawyer. I get it. Can we
6:56
Speaker 1: get back? Let me read direct? Is what I would
7:01
Speaker 1: say in court. Is your honor objection? The witness is
7:05
Speaker 1: not being responsive to the question. The question is, let
7:09
Speaker 1: me refresh your recollection, Daryl. How can this security person,
7:14
Speaker 1: Travis McGivern contradict the sister's testimony if she hasn't already testified.
7:20
Speaker 1: Maybe they're bringing in her deposition. You know, Nancy, if
7:23
Speaker 1: he said she said. If Amber's sister takes a stand
7:27
Speaker 1: and testifies and says, yes, it was me that stood
7:31
Speaker 1: in between them, what is a jury going to believe?
7:34
Speaker 1: Is there video of this? Is there audio of this?
7:37
Speaker 1: Was there a ring barnbell that was videoing an audio
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Speaker 1: all of this? The answer is no. So it becomes
7:43
Speaker 1: a question of who the jury believes, if either of them,
7:47
Speaker 1: who the jury disbelieves, possibly both of them, And it
7:52
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Remember when you and I used to try
7:54
Speaker 1: cases as prosecutors, would have a psychiatrist say the defendant
7:59
Speaker 1: was literally knowing what he or she was doing and
8:02
Speaker 1: they were not, as you would say, crazy, and then
8:07
Speaker 1: the defense would bring any such headdress. That said, all
8:10
Speaker 1: my client didn't know right from wrong. The but not
8:12
Speaker 1: rule doesn't matter, So it becomes a question of who
8:16
Speaker 1: you want to believe. You look at money, language, facial expressions,
8:21
Speaker 1: and then the jury makes their decision, and here does
8:24
Speaker 1: it really matter you answer that question? I can't, Okay,
8:28
Speaker 1: you know, what did he just say? Because I was
8:30
Speaker 1: asking about the sister testimony, which has not happened. But
8:34
Speaker 1: yet the depth sign has brought in a witness to
8:37
Speaker 1: contradict her testimony. Her testimony must have been brought in
8:41
Speaker 1: some other way. In other words, you can't contradict something
8:45
Speaker 1: that hasn't happened yet. That said, let's get back I'm
8:48
Speaker 1: clearly not going to ring an answer out of Daryl Cohen.
8:51
Speaker 1: Let's go back to what's happening in the courtroom. Speaking
8:54
Speaker 1: of psychiatrists, and I mean this and a loving and
9:00
Speaker 1: caring way. Take a listen to Jenny Norman, our friend
9:05
Speaker 1: at GMA and our cut twenty four. This is a
9:07
Speaker 1: bombshell of a trial that's garnering millions of viewers every
9:11
Speaker 1: day that Johnny Depp and Amber heard head back to
9:13
Speaker 1: court between live streams, TV coverage, even people lining up
9:16
Speaker 1: every morning outside to try to get a coveted seat
9:19
Speaker 1: inside the courtroom to hear the testimony from the star
9:22
Speaker 1: actors about their allegations against each other. Actor Johnny Depp
9:26
Speaker 1: and ex wife Amber Heard back in court this morning,
9:29
Speaker 1: facing off in their contentious trial centered on a fifty
9:32
Speaker 1: million dollar defamation suit. On Tuesday, a psychologist taking the stand,
9:37
Speaker 1: testifying dep Amber Heard suffers from borderline personality disorder, a
9:41
Speaker 1: condition driven by an underlying fear of abandonment, and historionic
9:46
Speaker 1: personality disorder, a condition she says is associated with drama
9:50
Speaker 1: and shallowness. She had a very sophisticated way of minimizing
9:56
Speaker 1: any personal problems, a tendency to be very self righteou,
10:00
Speaker 1: but to also deny that self righteousness and to judge
10:03
Speaker 1: others critically against these sort of high standards. High standards
10:11
Speaker 1: on the part of Amber Heard. Listen, I'm not on
10:13
Speaker 1: depth side. I mean, I love Captain Jack Sparrow, but
10:16
Speaker 1: that's not real depth Israel, and I'm not on her side.
10:20
Speaker 1: I would like to know the truth or does it
10:23
Speaker 1: just boil down to, as I've said before, to wet
10:26
Speaker 1: cats and a barrel callawing and fighting it out and
10:30
Speaker 1: the jury's not really going to end up liking either
10:32
Speaker 1: one of them. Time stories with Nancy Grace back to
10:49
Speaker 1: the high standards of Amber heard, according to the witnesses
10:54
Speaker 1: just been on the stand. The longtime security guard, a
10:58
Speaker 1: nine year veteran of Depths security team. He says that
11:03
Speaker 1: Amber heard spit on Debt and threw a red bull
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Speaker 1: can at him, calling him an effing deadbeat dad and
11:13
Speaker 1: an effing C word. High standards. I don't know about that,
11:17
Speaker 1: but people say a lot of things when they're angry.
11:20
Speaker 1: They wouldn't normally say. Let me go straight out to
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Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us today at Angela
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Speaker 1: Arnold md dot com. What do you make of this
11:31
Speaker 1: diagnosis of borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder? Well,
11:38
Speaker 1: Nancy both. I think it takes a little bit longer
11:41
Speaker 1: than twelve hours to diagnose that, but a well trained
11:47
Speaker 1: therapist can diagnose those disorders. And somebody pete people. It's
11:52
Speaker 1: typically very apparent to me when I'm working with something
11:55
Speaker 1: like that. Okay, what do you mean? And as I
11:58
Speaker 1: tell witnesses and others quite often, please do not refer
12:02
Speaker 1: to he they we see it, Please give it a
12:07
Speaker 1: proper name. Who what what are you talking about? Patients
12:11
Speaker 1: who have who have borderline personality disorder, even borderline tendencies,
12:17
Speaker 1: act in a certain They all act in a certain way.
12:21
Speaker 1: Typically when you first meet them, they're very lovable. They
12:25
Speaker 1: don't come off as as being volatile or unlikable. They're
12:30
Speaker 1: typically very likable when you first meet them because they
12:34
Speaker 1: want you to like them back, okay. And it's only
12:38
Speaker 1: after a bit of time that they start to feel
12:41
Speaker 1: comfortable with you that they start to test you, and
12:44
Speaker 1: they start to test the limits that they're supposed to
12:48
Speaker 1: just just typical social limits that we're supposed to live
12:51
Speaker 1: with them. They also have in saying that. So first,
12:56
Speaker 1: they're very they're kind, they bring you gifts, they shower
13:00
Speaker 1: you with praise. That's how you know it's coming, okay, Nancy.
13:05
Speaker 1: They have a very difficult time regulating their emotions. That's
13:10
Speaker 1: what this is all about, isn't it. A person with
13:14
Speaker 1: borderline personality disorder has a difficult time regulating their emotions,
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Speaker 1: and therefore they have very rocky relationship. I've got to
13:23
Speaker 1: stop you because you've already said several things that I
13:25
Speaker 1: don't know what you mean, first of all, so they
13:28
Speaker 1: will test social limits with you. Please give me an example.
13:33
Speaker 1: I've had instances where in which patients show up to
13:37
Speaker 1: my office after their appointment is over, so they're late,
13:43
Speaker 1: but they still come to my office, bang on the door,
13:46
Speaker 1: and wait for me in the parking garage. Got it,
13:49
Speaker 1: I get it. Okay, that's all you need to tell me.
13:51
Speaker 1: So with a viriline personality disorder, they would do something
13:56
Speaker 1: like me very nice to you at the get go,
13:59
Speaker 1: and then begin to test social limits. I understand that.
14:04
Speaker 1: Did you ever watch Monk? He certainly tested his psychiatrist
14:08
Speaker 1: social limits. And Nancy, do you want to know why
14:10
Speaker 1: they do that? Why they do it because at the
14:13
Speaker 1: very at their very core, they fear abandonment for one
14:17
Speaker 1: reason or another. Something happens to them in their childhood
14:20
Speaker 1: and they fear abandonment. So they test the person harder
14:25
Speaker 1: and harder and harder to see is this person going
14:28
Speaker 1: to abandon me? So if you don't abandon abandon them
14:31
Speaker 1: after one point, then then they up the ante. You
14:34
Speaker 1: said they have a problem regulating their emotions their behavior.
14:39
Speaker 1: That's right, you said, amations. So yes, what do you
14:43
Speaker 1: mean by that? Well? What I mean by that is okay,
14:47
Speaker 1: as we grow up. As we grow up, we learn
14:50
Speaker 1: that even though we might want to cut somebody off
14:54
Speaker 1: when we're driving down the street, or shake our fists
14:56
Speaker 1: at them, or yell at somebody if they if they
14:59
Speaker 1: do something out to us, we learn that we can't
15:02
Speaker 1: do that. They can't. Something happens in the development of
15:05
Speaker 1: a person that has borderline personality disorder that they because
15:10
Speaker 1: of their abandonment issues or their neglects that they've suffered
15:14
Speaker 1: growing up, Nancy, they have to speak louder to be heard. Okay,
15:19
Speaker 1: they have to speak louder. So if you're neglected, what
15:22
Speaker 1: do you do? You cry louder so that somebody hears you. Right, So,
15:26
Speaker 1: no one pays attention to them when they're little, so
15:29
Speaker 1: they don't know how to contain their emotions and still
15:32
Speaker 1: get attention. I like everything that well, I don't necessarily
15:36
Speaker 1: like it, but I understand, and I may agree with you.
15:40
Speaker 1: But see, when you're on the stand and you keep talking,
15:44
Speaker 1: at some point, the jury is gonna lose. The gist
15:48
Speaker 1: of it is going to get lost, and the sauce.
15:51
Speaker 1: But I get it. Okay, you're saying that, are you
15:55
Speaker 1: saying you do or do not agree with the diagnosis?
15:58
Speaker 1: I do you do agree? Okay, take a listen to
16:01
Speaker 1: our cut twenty three. This is the doctor now, doctor
16:04
Speaker 1: Shen and Curry on the witness stand. I also conducted
16:09
Speaker 1: the clinician administered PTSD Scale TOCAPS five, which is the
16:13
Speaker 1: gold standard PTSD assessment developed by the National Center for PTSD,
16:19
Speaker 1: shown to be valid accurate for use not just with
16:23
Speaker 1: service members, but also with civilians, men, women, all genders,
16:30
Speaker 1: and also all ethnicities, and then also specifically for use
16:35
Speaker 1: in a courtroom setting. As a result of applying those protocols,
16:39
Speaker 1: what did you conclude? Miss Heeard did not have PTSD
16:44
Speaker 1: And there were also pretty significant indications that she was
16:49
Speaker 1: grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked about them. Okay,
16:54
Speaker 1: that's not going to help anything if this jury believes
16:58
Speaker 1: she is eager reading straight out to John Guard, chief
17:03
Speaker 1: deputy with the Pitt County Sheriff's Office joining us from
17:06
Speaker 1: North Carolina who specializes in investigating domestic violence cases. Deputy Guard,
17:12
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Okay. I worked, as
17:16
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, at crime Con. I just got
17:19
Speaker 1: back from crime Con. I ran into a woman I
17:23
Speaker 1: didn't recognize her face, but when I heard a voice,
17:25
Speaker 1: I did that. We knew each other years ago from
17:30
Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office when I would volunteer at night
17:32
Speaker 1: nine years at the Batter Women's Center. I worked with
17:35
Speaker 1: a lot of batter women in and out of court.
17:38
Speaker 1: But what we're hearing right now is testimony from a
17:43
Speaker 1: medical professional saying that Amber heard exaggerated with the doctor
17:51
Speaker 1: with the psychologist, it was the lady I just played
17:56
Speaker 1: for you, and she's explaining, is doctor Shannon Curry why
18:00
Speaker 1: she thought am or Heard was exaggerating. You know, with
18:05
Speaker 1: all the women I worked with, I never of course,
18:08
Speaker 1: they were all beat up pretty badly. I never really
18:11
Speaker 1: thought about them exaggerating because they were so obviously aggravated, assaulted.
18:17
Speaker 1: There was bad What do you make of what this
18:20
Speaker 1: doctor is saying? Yeah, it's really it's really difficult to
18:24
Speaker 1: go with that. I mean, again, that's not my background.
18:27
Speaker 1: I'm generally working cases from a criminal end, and exactly
18:31
Speaker 1: as you know, it's it's different in the in the
18:33
Speaker 1: civil courts. I do know in domestic violent sexual assault
18:38
Speaker 1: and other violent crimes, there is a level of trauma
18:41
Speaker 1: that comes in and sometimes you know, things may be
18:45
Speaker 1: fragmented when it's delivered to us as investigators. You mean,
18:49
Speaker 1: when the victim gives her story, it may be fragmented.
18:53
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Well, I mean if
18:55
Speaker 1: you take, for an example, a victim of sexual assault, again,
19:01
Speaker 1: very traumatic event, and sometimes when they're given their statement
19:09
Speaker 1: to you, things may come across in a way that
19:13
Speaker 1: folks that have not been sexually abused or not impacted
19:17
Speaker 1: by trauma at the current time is gonna feel like
19:22
Speaker 1: maybe they're gaps here. You know, I wouldn't I would
19:26
Speaker 1: remember this if it occurred to me. But again, you know,
19:30
Speaker 1: trauma impacts people in different ways, and I'm not saying
19:34
Speaker 1: that's in this case. What I'm saying is, you know,
19:37
Speaker 1: it's it's really tough when you interview, as you know,
19:41
Speaker 1: people that has experienced trauma. So kind of hard to
19:45
Speaker 1: Monday morning quarterback people like that. You know. So from
19:50
Speaker 1: a criminal end, it's easy for us in law enforcement
19:52
Speaker 1: because we're looking at elements of a crime and we're
19:54
Speaker 1: kind of checking it off, and you know, the facts
19:58
Speaker 1: kind of dictate where we go with investigation. I mean,
20:01
Speaker 1: we're at the end of the day, we're fact finders,
20:04
Speaker 1: but this is a difficult a case, and I know
20:08
Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of attension. Certainly. You know
20:11
Speaker 1: Deputy Guard joining as Deputy John Guard out of Pitt
20:15
Speaker 1: County in North Carolina, who specializes in domestic violence cases
20:19
Speaker 1: that can happen. Many people find it difficult to believe
20:23
Speaker 1: that you can block out very traumatic events. But I
20:29
Speaker 1: can tell you that around the time, and I mean
20:33
Speaker 1: for a couple of years before and several years after
20:37
Speaker 1: my fiance's murder, there's big chunks of memory loss. I
20:44
Speaker 1: don't know if it's God's way to protect you. I
20:47
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, but I can tell you
20:49
Speaker 1: it's real that in mind. I want you to hear
20:54
Speaker 1: what else this shrink has to say about Amber heard?
20:58
Speaker 1: Is it real? You just heard her state that she
21:03
Speaker 1: found Amber her to be histrionic and that she did
21:08
Speaker 1: not have post traumatic stress syndrome. But that's not all.
21:15
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twenty five from GMA
21:19
Speaker 1: psychologist Shannon Curry, who is not board certified and was
21:23
Speaker 1: hired by Depth's team, examined her for twelve hours. She
21:27
Speaker 1: also alleges that her did not suffer post traumatic stress
21:30
Speaker 1: disorder from her relationship with Depth, despite her claims as
21:34
Speaker 1: a result of applying those protocols of what did you conclude?
21:38
Speaker 1: Misheard did not have PTSD, and there were also pretty
21:43
Speaker 1: significant indications that she was grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD
21:48
Speaker 1: when asked about them. Herd's attorneys questioning Curry over potential
21:52
Speaker 1: bias after it was revealed she had dinner and drinks
21:56
Speaker 1: with Depth before she was hired. You'd seen a number
21:58
Speaker 1: of his TV and movie role and you believed he
22:00
Speaker 1: was a good actor. Correct. Not correct. I did not
22:03
Speaker 1: know Johnny Depp, knew several of his movies. You knew
22:07
Speaker 1: who he was, Yes, okay, So knowing who he is
22:11
Speaker 1: before you take the job doesn't mean that she's biased.
22:15
Speaker 1: Of course, everybody on the stand, if you're getting paid
22:18
Speaker 1: by one of the parties, is going to be cross
22:20
Speaker 1: examined on that. I want to go back to what's
22:22
Speaker 1: happening today. The security guard Travis mcgibborn on the stand.
22:26
Speaker 1: We also know that he states that amber Heard spit
22:31
Speaker 1: on Depth and threw a red bull can at him.
22:34
Speaker 1: I mean, just common sense, Alexis terres Chuck. If the
22:39
Speaker 1: jury thinks Amber Heard also brutalized Johnny Depp. How is
22:44
Speaker 1: that going to affect their verdict? Well, this could really
22:47
Speaker 1: be working in Johnny saber. You know. What he says
22:49
Speaker 1: is that he was standing between them and Amber reached
22:52
Speaker 1: out and punched Johnny on the left side of his face,
22:55
Speaker 1: and that he had a swelling and a bruise in
22:58
Speaker 1: a red mark for days afterwards. He said this, like
23:01
Speaker 1: she hit him. He was an eyewitness, he had been
23:04
Speaker 1: his security guard for years. And he also explained that
23:07
Speaker 1: Amber Heard was not only rude to Johnny Depp, she
23:10
Speaker 1: was rude to him. She said he was very demeaning
23:12
Speaker 1: about the fact that he was simply just a security guard,
23:15
Speaker 1: really snobby about, you know, his decision, that's his career,
23:19
Speaker 1: really criticizing him for that, and saying that he said,
23:23
Speaker 1: you know, she threw shaded him, which means that she
23:25
Speaker 1: was really saying something mean about him. She was not
23:28
Speaker 1: only rude to Johnny Depp, he says, but she was
23:30
Speaker 1: also personally vindictive and rude to him. You know, I
23:33
Speaker 1: think part of this, not only is it true, but
23:35
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, I think it's gonna turn the jury against
23:39
Speaker 1: Amber Heard, and there's not a darn thing that can
23:41
Speaker 1: be done about it because when you're playing, of which
23:44
Speaker 1: in this case Johnny Depp is he's suing her after
23:47
Speaker 1: she wrote an article calling him an abuser. It's his duty,
23:50
Speaker 1: it's his burden under the law, to go first. So
23:52
Speaker 1: they're gonna hear his whole side first. Nancy, you only
23:56
Speaker 1: have one chance to make a first impression, and they
23:59
Speaker 1: have heard his old side, will continue here to hear
24:02
Speaker 1: his old side. And I agree it is not looking
24:06
Speaker 1: good for Amber. Having said that there's something in boxing
24:10
Speaker 1: called a counterpuncher, and when Amber and her team testifies,
24:15
Speaker 1: I suspect they're going to try and turn it completely around.
24:18
Speaker 1: And we've got to wash, he said. She said, they
24:21
Speaker 1: both did. Many people wondering why this case was brought
24:26
Speaker 1: talk about dirty laundry. Who take us an hour cut seventeen.
24:30
Speaker 1: This is Johnny Depp on the stand. Listen, it's over.
24:35
Speaker 1: You know you're done. So what did it do to me?
24:42
Speaker 1: What effect did it have on me? No matter the
24:47
Speaker 1: outcome of this trial, the second the allegations were made
24:52
Speaker 1: against me, the accusations, the second that more and more
25:00
Speaker 1: these things, as I said, metastasized, I'm turned into fodder
25:08
Speaker 1: for the media. Once fat happens, or once that happened,
25:20
Speaker 1: I lost then to Alexa's TERRESTI we understand that Amber
25:26
Speaker 1: heard is taking the stand. Unlike in a criminal case
25:31
Speaker 1: where the state has the burden of proof, the state
25:33
Speaker 1: cannot call the accused, and a civil case, I mean
25:38
Speaker 1: think back to O. J. Simpson when the Goldman family
25:40
Speaker 1: sued Simpson. Simpson was called to the stand, Simon Simpson
25:46
Speaker 1: was called to be deposed, give sworn testimony, and there's
25:50
Speaker 1: no way out. So she is going to take the stand.
25:55
Speaker 1: But she is bringing herself to the stand. Death is
25:58
Speaker 1: not calling her to the stand. Is that correct, Alexis?
26:01
Speaker 1: That is absolutely correct, And she could be on the
26:04
Speaker 1: stand as soon as tomorrow, soon as May third, because
26:09
Speaker 1: she wants to tell her side of the story. But
26:11
Speaker 1: there's something very interesting that just happened with Amberhards. She
26:15
Speaker 1: had hired a crisis PR firm to advise her during
26:20
Speaker 1: this whole trial, and she just fired them and hired
26:24
Speaker 1: a new crisis PR firm. So on top of all
26:27
Speaker 1: these lawyers, you know, the millions of dollars that have
26:30
Speaker 1: been spent on lawyers, she is using a crisis PR
26:32
Speaker 1: firm because she understands that she is getting so much
26:35
Speaker 1: bad pressed that people are really siding with Johnny Depp.
26:38
Speaker 1: This is Johnny depp shining moment lately. He has really
26:42
Speaker 1: won over the public with his testimony. And people do
26:45
Speaker 1: not believe that amberhard was the victim at all here.
26:49
Speaker 1: They believe that she is the one that was abusing him,
26:51
Speaker 1: and that then she wrote that up ed even after
26:53
Speaker 1: their divorce when she was not supposed to say anything
26:56
Speaker 1: about it, and after Johnny gave her seven million dollars
26:59
Speaker 1: and she was going to donate it to charity, and
27:01
Speaker 1: she donated almost none of it to charity. She has
27:04
Speaker 1: hired a crisis PR firm, hired them and hired a
27:06
Speaker 1: new one today, and people are saying, but the first
27:09
Speaker 1: time ever she walked into court this morning smiling and
27:12
Speaker 1: hugged her attorney. She'd never done method. Observers in the
27:15
Speaker 1: court had been saying that she'd never done that before.
27:17
Speaker 1: And they think that this is a little ploy by
27:19
Speaker 1: the crisis PR firm to have her image changed. You
27:23
Speaker 1: know what, I think we're trying to make sense of
27:26
Speaker 1: a nonsensical situation. I bet you that if you asked
27:30
Speaker 1: a hundred people about what they think regarding the trial.
27:34
Speaker 1: I bet you that ninety nine would say they hit
27:38
Speaker 1: each other. Take a listen to our cut twenty nine.
27:40
Speaker 1: This is depth on the stand. Mister Depp. Now that
27:43
Speaker 1: the jury can see the photograph, can you again explain
27:46
Speaker 1: what that green dot is identifying? Just to both, oh both,
27:56
Speaker 1: the green dot is uh a wound from misheard taking
28:07
Speaker 1: my cigarette and um, this is after the finger had
28:15
Speaker 1: gone away. Um, and she stubbed it out in my
28:19
Speaker 1: in my face, on my cheek. Daryl Cowen, if you're
28:24
Speaker 1: representing Amber heard, good luck. Good luck with her claiming
28:30
Speaker 1: oh he hit me because she gave as good as
28:32
Speaker 1: she got. It sounds like and I'm not saying Depp
28:37
Speaker 1: didn't hit her. I'm saying she also abused him, maybe
28:42
Speaker 1: more than he abused her. So all goes back to
28:45
Speaker 1: that op ed piece that she wrote for the Washington Post.
28:50
Speaker 1: This is after the divorce, after the settlement, she writes
28:55
Speaker 1: an article talking about how she is a domestic violence
28:58
Speaker 1: a victim. He claims it defamed him, maligned him. She says, well,
29:06
Speaker 1: I didn't put your name in there. Take us an
29:08
Speaker 1: hour cut thirty one, Robin. Her lawyers omitted them below.
29:12
Speaker 1: But Amber would love to see a way to have
29:14
Speaker 1: that part in bold somehow put back in? Is there
29:18
Speaker 1: an artful way to do that? Otherwise? She is okay
29:21
Speaker 1: with the final two years ago I sought a temporary
29:25
Speaker 1: restraining order from my then husband Ellipses was changed to
29:28
Speaker 1: two years ago after successfully acquiring a temporary restraining order,
29:33
Speaker 1: but still not cleared by her lawyers. Do you see
29:36
Speaker 1: that I did? Is that consistent with your understanding about
29:42
Speaker 1: what Miss Herb's desires were? Yeah? Yeah, I trust Jessica
29:47
Speaker 1: White's relationship with Amber so that when Jessica told Robin
29:51
Speaker 1: that that was something Amber wanted, I have no reason
29:53
Speaker 1: to think that that's not correct. So what I'm understanding,
29:58
Speaker 1: do you aleccess to jointing from Crime online dot Com?
30:01
Speaker 1: Her defense is one of them anyway, is I never
30:05
Speaker 1: said your name in the article, so I couldn't defame you.
30:08
Speaker 1: You weren't identified, But that's only because the post deleted
30:15
Speaker 1: his name. She wanted it back in. She did absolutely right,
30:18
Speaker 1: and that's what the testimony has shown by the ACLU.
30:21
Speaker 1: This doesn'tlike somebody that has worked for Johnny Depp for
30:24
Speaker 1: twenty years or somebody who's a fan of his movie.
30:27
Speaker 1: This is the head of an organization that has been
30:30
Speaker 1: at the forefront, you know, of fighting for civil rights
30:32
Speaker 1: across our country. This has nothing to do with her
30:35
Speaker 1: being although I kind of think, you know, she was
30:37
Speaker 1: giving them quite a few million dollars. They thought so.
30:40
Speaker 1: They definitely seemed like they were a little bit star
30:42
Speaker 1: struck in dealing with her. But Johnny Depp's name was
30:45
Speaker 1: not in it. However, it referenced I was a victim.
30:48
Speaker 1: She had filed a restraining order in public. The only
30:51
Speaker 1: person she'd been with for the last you know, since
30:54
Speaker 1: twenty eleven was Johnny Depp. Like it was Johnny Depp.
30:57
Speaker 1: This was so clearly Johnny Depp could not have been anyone.
31:00
Speaker 1: She also dated Elon Musk. It wasn't Elon Musk that
31:03
Speaker 1: was after this. She really gave a very specific time
31:06
Speaker 1: frame of when she would quote a victim of domestic abuse. Guys,
31:10
Speaker 1: I want you to hear something is disturbing sound to
31:14
Speaker 1: me anyway. I take a listen to our cut thirty two.
31:17
Speaker 1: I can tell people that it was a fair fight
31:20
Speaker 1: and was see was the journy judge space Johnny tell
31:25
Speaker 1: them Johnny Depp, I jn Depp man. I'm a big
31:28
Speaker 1: consusled dress farm and you know it's a faverify it
31:32
Speaker 1: se howby people at least or side of you. It
31:36
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if my ass And what did you say
31:42
Speaker 1: in response when miss Hurd said tell the world, Johnny
31:45
Speaker 1: tell them Johnny Depp? I, Johnny Depp A man, I'm
31:49
Speaker 1: a victim too of domestic violence? I said, yes. Time
32:07
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace John Guard joining me special guests,
32:13
Speaker 1: the chief deputy at pitt County Sheriff's Office specializing in
32:17
Speaker 1: investigating domestic violence cases. Did you it's almost as if
32:21
Speaker 1: she is, well she is. She's taunting him, saying, who's
32:26
Speaker 1: going to believe you when you claim you're a domestic
32:29
Speaker 1: violence victim? Well again, um, it certainly doesn't look good
32:35
Speaker 1: with that, you know, outside looking in at that. But
32:38
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, we have
32:40
Speaker 1: to ask ourselves in these these scenarios, is there such
32:44
Speaker 1: thing as provocation of violence? If that occurred? You know?
32:49
Speaker 1: And alsers around the country face this every every day
32:53
Speaker 1: when we respond to cases of endim partner violence. You're
32:58
Speaker 1: not there when the event happened. Uh, you come in
33:01
Speaker 1: and you do your best to investigate. We separate each
33:06
Speaker 1: party and and try to get down to the bottom
33:09
Speaker 1: um of of the case of what actually happened based
33:12
Speaker 1: on you know, facts and things we're able to uncover
33:17
Speaker 1: during our interviews. But again I can see where you know,
33:21
Speaker 1: from outside looking in, you go, Klie, that could be
33:26
Speaker 1: almost like you know, tempting or provocation or things things
33:30
Speaker 1: like that. And uh, you know, for us again as
33:33
Speaker 1: officers we look at criminal investigations, we have to weed
33:37
Speaker 1: through all that and uh as an example, in cases
33:41
Speaker 1: of of violence on both sides. Uh, in these these relationships,
33:49
Speaker 1: you know, we're trained to come in, investigate and determine
33:53
Speaker 1: who the predominant addresser is based on a number of
33:57
Speaker 1: different things, past history, size all that that type of information,
34:02
Speaker 1: and make what we hope is the best decision impossible.
34:06
Speaker 1: You said, the predominant aggressor, right, You're right, who is
34:10
Speaker 1: the predominant aggressor in this? To doctor Angela Arnold, I
34:14
Speaker 1: know you just heard everything. Deputy John Guard said, let
34:17
Speaker 1: me ask you what is a histrionic personality? What is that?
34:23
Speaker 1: Because the same doctor says heard has a histrionic personality
34:28
Speaker 1: disorder Nancy. A histrionic personality disorder is one in which
34:32
Speaker 1: people are very evasive, effusive with their their ornament. You're dramatic?
34:39
Speaker 1: It does it? Does? It means you're very dramatic in
34:42
Speaker 1: how And you know the funny thing, isn't it just
34:44
Speaker 1: for your viewers out there that this is very interesting.
34:47
Speaker 1: Borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorders are in the
34:51
Speaker 1: same category of personality disorders. Okay, So we have several
34:56
Speaker 1: different categories of personality disorders and they're very similar personality
35:01
Speaker 1: disorders and oftentimes occur in the same person. Guys, I
35:05
Speaker 1: want you to also take a listen to our cut
35:08
Speaker 1: twenty How long would it take until six rears its hit? Question?
35:15
Speaker 1: The night before you were due to meet up, did
35:17
Speaker 1: you have a heated discussion on the telephone with misheard
35:20
Speaker 1: about what was happening with James Franco the scenes she
35:23
Speaker 1: was doing with James Franco. Answer? I do not recall,
35:27
Speaker 1: but it is highly likely. Did I read that right?
35:31
Speaker 1: And you suspected that Amber was having an affair with
35:33
Speaker 1: James Franco? Correct? That was the reason for your argument. Yeah,
35:41
Speaker 1: And when you got on the plane, you considered that
35:44
Speaker 1: she was also being judgmental toward you because she believed
35:48
Speaker 1: that you were inebriated and under the influence of drugs. Correct,
35:53
Speaker 1: That was a constant and I'm talking about this particular
35:56
Speaker 1: plane flight. You consider that she was being judgmental towards
36:00
Speaker 1: you because she believed you were inebriated and under the
36:02
Speaker 1: influence of drugs when you got on this plane. Correct. Yes,
36:07
Speaker 1: And at some point on the flight, you end up
36:09
Speaker 1: sleeping on the bathroom floor. Right, I ended up sleeping
36:13
Speaker 1: on the bathroom floor. Okay, I don't know who that helps,
36:19
Speaker 1: but I did learn one thing. Alexis terres Chuck Depth
36:22
Speaker 1: believed Amber Heard was having an affair with Franco, James Franco.
36:30
Speaker 1: What does that have to do? Yes, only my question
36:33
Speaker 1: that James Franco had been on the witness list for
36:37
Speaker 1: Depth and now he's not. Is that correct? That is correct.
36:41
Speaker 1: He has not shown up in court. But yeah, he
36:43
Speaker 1: believed that she was cheating on him. So she's accusing
36:46
Speaker 1: him of drinking and doing drugs and these wildlifes, and
36:50
Speaker 1: he's like, you are cheating on me. Was like another
36:52
Speaker 1: celebrity who's not even nearly as famous as me, and
36:54
Speaker 1: somebody who has a really bad reputation. So it was
36:57
Speaker 1: very distressing. For him. Okay, I don't know if the
37:00
Speaker 1: two were cheating or not, but I do know he's
37:02
Speaker 1: been dropped from the witness list. Now, Daryl Cohen, let's
37:06
Speaker 1: stay in the middle of the row, stay out of
37:09
Speaker 1: the weeds. Why would Depth list Franco as a witness
37:13
Speaker 1: and then not call him? Oh, let's called lightning from
37:17
Speaker 1: a clear blue sky because Franco is not going to
37:21
Speaker 1: testify the way Johnny Depp wants him to test exactly.
37:25
Speaker 1: Nancy sleeping on a bathroom floor on a plane, does
37:29
Speaker 1: that tell you something. He wasn't not drunk, he wasn't
37:32
Speaker 1: not high, he was drugging. So these two deserve each other. See,
37:37
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Depp didn't
37:40
Speaker 1: hit her, and I'm not saying that he did hit
37:43
Speaker 1: her because I find her to be very unbelievable and
37:47
Speaker 1: a little dislikeable. But does that mean she wasn't hit No,
37:50
Speaker 1: it doesn't. But what you're saying is right. There was
37:54
Speaker 1: a sudden u turn on calling James Franco to the stand,
37:58
Speaker 1: and that only means one thing that his testimony was
38:01
Speaker 1: not going to jibe with what Dept wanted. Alexis Treschuk
38:05
Speaker 1: talking about Franco, talking about these two witnesses. Who's likable,
38:10
Speaker 1: who's not likable. Did it come out that Amber heard
38:14
Speaker 1: at the time of the split, demanded to Debt that
38:17
Speaker 1: she could live in one of his three homes and
38:20
Speaker 1: keep a black range Rover in exchange for her not
38:24
Speaker 1: filing some kind of a complaint against him. Yes, So
38:27
Speaker 1: she went to her lawyer and they went They sent
38:31
Speaker 1: Johnny depp lawyer a note said Amber wants to live
38:33
Speaker 1: in one of the three penhouses he owned, three penhouse departments.
38:37
Speaker 1: She wants to be able to live in all of those,
38:40
Speaker 1: all three of them, not with Johnny. She wants to
38:42
Speaker 1: keep a range Rover, and she wanted one hundred and
38:44
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars for legal fees immediately and another
38:50
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars spending money. She said. They said, you know,
38:53
Speaker 1: we're going to keep this it private, but this is
38:55
Speaker 1: what Amber would like. And then three or four days
38:59
Speaker 1: later she went and filed a restraining order, putting everything
39:02
Speaker 1: out in the public. They're not keeping it at all private,
39:04
Speaker 1: and his lawyer. Johnny's lawyers testify that they basically felt
39:08
Speaker 1: like this was almost like a blackmail, Like, if you
39:11
Speaker 1: don't give us these three apartments penhouse apartments, These aren't
39:14
Speaker 1: you know, one bedroom studio apartments. These are palatial, the
39:17
Speaker 1: whole top floor these apartment buildings, and a fancy car
39:21
Speaker 1: and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Immediately, we're going to
39:24
Speaker 1: trash you in public. And that's exactly what they say
39:27
Speaker 1: she did. Okay, Amber hears divorced demands revealed in a
39:30
Speaker 1: letter submitted by the Johnny Depp lawyers, and it insists
39:35
Speaker 1: that she'd be able to live rent three and not one,
39:39
Speaker 1: not two, but three plush apartments and keep the range
39:44
Speaker 1: rover in exchange for keeping things quote out of the
39:50
Speaker 1: media spotlight. I'm telling you, I love Edward scissor Hands
39:57
Speaker 1: and I love Captain Jack Sparrow, but these two, both
40:01
Speaker 1: of them are getting very difficult to tolerate her demanding
40:08
Speaker 1: to live in three penthouse apartments and a range rover
40:12
Speaker 1: in order to keep things from going public. You know what,
40:14
Speaker 1: if I had been beaten, I'd be pretty sure I'd
40:17
Speaker 1: be calling the cops and moving forward with domestic violence claims,
40:21
Speaker 1: not trying to bargain my way in or out of it.
40:25
Speaker 1: You know why, because I would not want my children
40:29
Speaker 1: to grow up to think that was the kind of thing.
40:34
Speaker 1: You just bargain away, you beat me, Okay, can I
40:38
Speaker 1: have the Range Rover? It just tastes bad. It's leaving
40:42
Speaker 1: a bad taste in my mouth. We wait as just
40:45
Speaker 1: as sunfalse Nancy Grace crime story signing off, goodbye,