Latest / Left of the Projector / Black Christmas (1975)

Transcript

Black Christmas (1975) · Left of the Projector

0:16
Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
0:19
Evan: back again with another film discussion from the left.
0:22
Evan: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
0:25
Evan: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector Pod.
0:28
Evan: If you'd like to dress in style, we've got shirts.
0:31
Evan: And at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com, you can grab one and show everyone
0:36
Evan: you've got the best taste around.
0:37
Evan: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified
0:40
Evan: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.
0:44
Evan: Ho, ho, ho, and Merry Christmas from us here at Left to the Projector.
0:47
Evan: This week on the show, we enter the holiday season with one of the greatest
0:51
Evan: horror slasher films ever made, at least in this host's opinion.
0:54
Evan: And that film is Black Christmas, released in 1974.
0:58
Evan: It became a cult classic. It was directed by Bob Clark, who you may know from
1:02
Evan: his later films, such as Porky's.
1:05
Evan: The film was written to be loosely based on an urban legend of the babysitter
1:09
Evan: in the house with the man upstairs. The film was funded by the Canadian government
1:12
Evan: for a budget of just $680,000.
1:15
Evan: And this week, I'm joined by Bill and Ward alongside Joy. How are you both doing?
1:20
Evan: Or how are you all doing today?
1:21
Bill and Joy: Super excited. Super stoked. Doing good.
1:24
Bill: Doing well.
1:26
Evan: The thing that I've been thinking about or I'm curious about,
1:29
Evan: because I know in the past we've talked about maybe other slasher films,
1:33
Evan: and I know that, Bill, you're not typically the biggest fan.
1:35
Evan: I'm wondering, had you seen this before? And did you... What did you think?
1:39
Bill: So i've never seen it before uh which is why when it
1:42
Bill: said like fund film funded
1:45
Bill: by i was like oh this isn't american i was like wait that's canadian
1:48
Bill: what the fuck i was
1:51
Bill: like who's paying for movies like listen this
1:54
Bill: isn't gonna like it's not gonna go up there with like my favorite movie
1:57
Bill: of all time but in terms of like a slasher i actually
2:00
Bill: didn't dislike it because i never
2:04
Bill: once felt like the characters my
2:07
Bill: biggest issue with slasher is the characters are fucking idiots and the
2:11
Bill: entire plot of slasher films requires the characters to be fucking morons um
2:16
Bill: and by the characters i mean the victims and this film doesn't do that at all
2:20
Bill: the dumb people are everyone else which makes the victims victims they are victims of the system and,
2:29
Bill: leads to them being killed and the characters themselves are not idiots unlike
2:34
Bill: every other slasher film i've ever fucking watched.
2:36
Bill and Joy: Such a good point like that was like one of the first things
2:39
Bill and Joy: i noticed watching this i hadn't seen it before
2:42
Bill and Joy: either i had seen like the remakes because i didn't know
2:45
Bill and Joy: that there were remakes because a friend told me like oh you just check
2:48
Bill and Joy: out black christmas and i watched obviously the wrong ones before and
2:52
Bill and Joy: so but this one yeah no i really like that it's like yeah no you don't have
2:57
Bill and Joy: all the victims being just dumb motherfuckers running around not knowing what
3:00
Bill and Joy: the fuck to do it's just like no they're aware it's just everyone else is fucking
3:04
Bill and Joy: yeah because they're fucking they're the fucking idiots instead i do love a slasher i,
3:10
Bill and Joy: loved this slasher i'm so glad i finally watched it i
3:12
Bill and Joy: was actually telling uh warden bill like i wish i would have watched this one
3:16
Bill and Joy: first to truly enjoy the 2019 remake um for reasons we'll get into but fun fact
3:22
Bill and Joy: apparently the i forget the director for halloween but he was inspired by black christmas so.
3:30
Evan: It's funny you say that because one of the things i was going to mention is that.
3:34
Bill and Joy: No it's.
3:35
Evan: Exactly that is that well it's john carpenter number one is the halloween director but.
3:39
Bill: Apparently i can't believe joy was just like i forget who the this fucking director
3:44
Bill: of halloween and i could just imagine evan over there like,
3:49
Bill: Like, I could just imagine his face just dropping. I know, in my defense.
3:53
Bill and Joy: You don't understand. It took me so, it takes me so long to remember names.
3:58
Bill and Joy: I'm horrible with names.
3:58
Evan: That's okay. I butcher people's names. I also forget actors' names a lot.
4:03
Evan: But it's interesting you mention that because in the, like, the lore of that,
4:09
Evan: inspiration of that is that Bob Clark had a meeting with John Carpenter,
4:13
Evan: like, a friendly meeting, where John Carpenter's like, hey, like,
4:16
Evan: if you ever made a sequel to Black Christmas, like, what would you do?
4:18
Evan: And Bob Clark's like, I would never make a sequel to this movie.
4:21
Evan: But if I did, it would be where the man was caught years later,
4:26
Evan: and then he escapes from prison and goes on a killing rampage against the women
4:31
Evan: who had been part of the original.
4:33
Evan: And then he said, I would call it Halloween. And then John Carpenter's like,
4:37
Evan: oh, interesting. And then five years later, he releases Halloween.
4:41
Bill: I think I'll do that.
4:44
Evan: He's not mad about it.
4:45
Bill and Joy: I think I'll take some notes.
4:47
Bill and Joy: I assume that he wouldn't be. I mean, in that, that's just a conversation.
4:51
Bill and Joy: I'm sure that if John Carpenter would have had something to say about it,
4:54
Bill and Joy: he would have been like, or not John Carpenter, but the original director would
4:58
Bill and Joy: have had something to say about it.
4:59
Bill and Joy: Like he'd have been like, oh, yeah, dude, no, you could definitely like as far
5:02
Bill and Joy: as like creating the actual like idea for them.
5:05
Evan: He's just mad he didn't get credit for the title. He's like,
5:07
Evan: he changed the story, but he used my title.
5:10
Evan: I'm like, he's like joking, like, you shouldn't use my title or whatever.
5:13
Evan: I don't know exactly the words he used. But, you know, this movie,
5:17
Evan: I mean, that's the thing about this, too, as like, this is I'm going to say
5:21
Evan: something that Bill is going to be surprised about.
5:23
Evan: This is actually my favorite slasher movie more than Halloween.
5:27
Evan: I think it's actually a better movie than Halloween.
5:30
Bill: I am surprised by that.
5:31
Evan: For people out there. I've never seen Halloween.
5:33
Bill: So I can't weigh in on that.
5:34
Evan: And i and i think it's because this movie
5:37
Evan: does all the things that halloween and
5:40
Evan: like future slashers do both right and
5:43
Evan: wrong where like women and the people in the movie are all
5:46
Evan: like doofuses and idiots and mess around whereas
5:49
Evan: this is like the complete opposite as you both already as you've all already
5:52
Evan: said and then also it like reverses the trope where the common trope in slashers
5:57
Evan: is like the the virgin is the final girl because she's pure whereas in this
6:02
Evan: it's the opposite The very first person who's killed is like the pure virgin.
6:06
Evan: And so I think that this movie is so interesting because it doesn't adhere to
6:12
Evan: the common tropes that people think of with slasher movies.
6:17
Bill: It didn't feel like a slasher film to me at all.
6:20
Bill and Joy: No, it doesn't feel like it. It felt like a murder mystery.
6:22
Bill: Yes, exactly.
6:23
Bill and Joy: Murder mystery, thriller kind of thing. Like that's more along the line.
6:27
Bill and Joy: It was a horror thriller. I mean, the dude's in the fucking house the whole fucking time. Fair.
6:31
Bill: That's cinematography. That's cinematography of him going in.
6:34
Bill and Joy: And the cinematography.
6:34
Bill: Brilliant.
6:35
Bill and Joy: Oh, yeah. It's like maybe you didn't feel a suspense, but I'm fucking the whole time.
6:39
Bill and Joy: I'm like, he's still a fucking thriller. It leaves you in suspense.
6:42
Bill and Joy: I will give you that. I will give you that.
6:44
Evan: That's what all of the actors who have done interviews about this movie have
6:48
Evan: said is that they think that these movies like this are better because all of
6:53
Evan: the horror is actually in your waiting for something to happen and not about gore.
6:59
Evan: Like, there's only one scene, I think, in the entire movie where there's even a speck of blood.
7:03
Bill: Yeah, there's no gore.
7:04
Evan: No.
7:04
Bill and Joy: I think the goriest thing in the movie is probably when the cop got his throat slit.
7:09
Evan: Yeah, but you don't see it.
7:11
Bill: You don't see it.
7:12
Bill and Joy: Well, you don't see it happen, but you see his body in the cop car.
7:16
Bill and Joy: Yeah, that's true. But I did appreciate, and I'm glad you mentioned that,
7:18
Bill and Joy: because I did appreciate whenever the character Barb dies and he uses one of
7:24
Bill and Joy: her little knickknacks.
7:25
Bill and Joy: There's not blood going, it's not over the top nasty, you know?
7:29
Bill: It's so 70s. The crystal tchotchkes and those little swans filled with sand, it's so 70s.
7:38
Evan: Well, and like, I mean, we've already sort of talked about like the general
7:41
Evan: plot of this movie is takes place around Christmas.
7:46
Evan: Obviously, the black Christmas might have given that part away.
7:49
Evan: It's, like, at a sorority house at a college in Canada, obviously,
7:52
Evan: as we mentioned, is Canada.
7:53
Evan: And the house, like, all the women who live there are being sort of terrorized
7:57
Evan: by a person who they call, like, the moaner who calls and has,
8:01
Evan: like, just says dirty things to them on the phone.
8:03
Evan: And maybe in the very opening scenes, you see someone entering the house.
8:08
Evan: And, like, one of the most terrifying, I think, like, point of view shots for,
8:12
Evan: like, a horror movie, he's, like, breathing.
8:13
Evan: You see just his hands very briefly. And, like, that's it.
8:17
Evan: Like, you never see his full face. You are just sort of there and that and one
8:23
Evan: by one people in the house are either killed or disappear or you know you don't
8:29
Evan: know what happens then for a little while and it yeah I don't know.
8:34
Bill and Joy: Is that like a whole like demographic of like creepiness that like has gone
8:39
Bill and Joy: away now since like almost everybody has like the silence unknown callers thing on their phones?
8:44
Bill and Joy: Is like just calling and like moaning or breathing into like the phone?
8:48
Bill: Oh my God, so true. Yeah, that's like, that's a cultural context.
8:51
Bill and Joy: Has that gone away?
8:51
Bill: Yeah, that's got, I would assume, like, I mean, other than like workplaces,
8:56
Bill: but like on personal lines, like, yeah.
8:58
Bill: Yeah, personal lines, yeah. That's got to be like a cultural context that like
9:01
Bill: if young people who, you know, didn't grow up at landlines at all,
9:05
Bill: like they must have like no context for that. Like we all at least grew up with landlines.
9:10
Evan: Yeah.
9:10
Bill and Joy: Yeah.
9:11
Evan: That's true.
9:11
Bill and Joy: Shout out to the guys that had to figure out a new way to be creepy.
9:14
Bill: And just the whole, and the whole concept of that, the whole concept of he's
9:18
Bill: calling from inside the house.
9:20
Bill: It's like, that's no one that would like, that has a whole different context
9:24
Bill: in the case of like, you know, cell phones. Because it's like,
9:27
Bill: well, he could be calling from anywhere. He's on a cell phone.
9:30
Bill: You know, it's like this, it's a whole different thing.
9:32
Evan: That's the origin of that line. Like, he's calling from inside the house is this movie.
9:37
Bill and Joy: Such a good line, too. I didn't know that. That's really cool.
9:40
Evan: Which I think has been, like, parodied and probably used in other,
9:43
Evan: like, commercials. And I don't know what else they've used it.
9:47
Bill and Joy: People, I heard somebody use it in, like, just a normal conversation the other day.
9:52
Evan: Yeah, it is kind of like a meme almost, right? Like, saying,
9:54
Evan: oh, the call is from coming inside the house.
9:56
Bill and Joy: Yeah.
9:56
Evan: Yeah so i always i think i often joke
10:00
Evan: in like other horror movies that we've done or that
10:02
Evan: i've done in the past is you know like does the movie pass the
10:05
Evan: bechdel test and for anyone who doesn't know that's when two women
10:09
Evan: talk to each other not about a man for more
10:12
Evan: than i think was it two minutes or i i don't remember the exact
10:15
Evan: time but in this movie you do it's mostly
10:18
Evan: women there are obviously men and there's a cop multiple cops a couple boyfriends
10:23
Evan: a father but like generally speaking there's like actual conversation that happens
10:28
Evan: amongst women where it isn't necessarily like about a man and i it like it almost
10:33
Evan: is kind of only the canadian government would fund a movie like this in 1974,
10:39
Evan: it
10:40
Bill: Truly is wow this is a government funded movie.
10:43
Evan: Well but so it's the canadian film development
10:46
Evan: corporation so it is technically a corporation but it
10:49
Evan: was still a canadian crown corporation which i guess means that it's technically
10:54
Evan: owned by the government you can look it up like they funded a lot of movies
10:58
Evan: and they actually considered this movie to be what they were trying to do apparently
11:02
Evan: was make movies that were sort
11:04
Evan: of based on american movies and like making the Canadian version of it.
11:09
Evan: It's like this was sort of like the Canadian version of, I guess there really
11:13
Evan: wasn't any American movies yet that sort of hit this.
11:15
Evan: Like the slashers at the time was more Italian or like you go back to like Psycho,
11:21
Evan: which was, you know, Hitchcock 20 years before, not even 20 years.
11:25
Evan: What year did Psycho come out? Like 1967?
11:29
Evan: Whoever the, to our...
11:31
Evan: listeners we're gonna 1960 oh 1960 okay so
11:34
Evan: i'm like way off by seven years so 15 years before
11:37
Evan: this like that's i would consider kind of like a slasher psychological thriller
11:41
Evan: i don't know like what do you think about the characters in it
11:44
Evan: as like women you know they they all seem to have sort of like different you
11:50
Evan: know uh personalities they're not all just sort of like goofy teens who want
11:55
Evan: to get drunk you know they have barb who's sort of like the crass one who's
11:59
Evan: drunk and then you sort of have the ones that are sort of see.
12:02
Bill and Joy: That's why i wish i would have watched i'm.
12:05
Evan: Sorry that's.
12:06
Bill and Joy: Why i would have watched this one before the next one because it puts
12:09
Bill and Joy: the remake in so much better context to understand
12:12
Bill and Joy: why they did the remake in the first place because while i'm sure that they
12:15
Bill and Joy: weren't trying to make it inherently like political it's the 70s everything's
12:19
Bill and Joy: a little bit political at the time but like i don't think that was the goal
12:22
Bill and Joy: of the movie but it happened that way anyway especially as the movie aged because
12:26
Bill and Joy: i mean you brought up barb is actually one of my favorite characters.
12:29
Bill and Joy: And I think it's really interesting how everybody kind of shits on her a little
12:32
Bill and Joy: bit. But at the same time, I mean, she's a young woman in college,
12:36
Bill and Joy: right? She's outspoken.
12:38
Bill and Joy: If she had been a guy at the Fred house, she probably would have been the most
12:41
Bill and Joy: popular person there, right?
12:43
Bill and Joy: And another person who I thought was really interesting was actually Mrs.
12:47
Bill and Joy: Mack, right? She plays a really, I find Mrs.
12:50
Bill and Joy: Mack to be a pretty key character in that, like, she, you even get a little bit of her background,
12:55
Bill and Joy: like, talking about how she was in vaudeville and you see like the whole like
12:58
Bill and Joy: poster with her and her sister and she has a drinking problem she's so interesting
13:02
Bill and Joy: to me and like you want to kind of know how did you become like a house mother
13:05
Bill and Joy: and then it's like it makes sense that she works so well with the girls because,
13:09
Bill and Joy: she's almost jealous of them right i think that it really focuses the movie
13:13
Bill and Joy: focuses on key parts that women were experiencing at the time you had shit at
13:17
Bill and Joy: i'm sorry i'm sorry if i'm gonna i'm just gonna i'm just gonna do it shit ass
13:20
Bill and Joy: uh patrick right saying you're not getting rid of this baby you didn't ask me
13:25
Bill and Joy: okay we're actually getting married because i'm quitting music because i can't play the piano yeah.
13:30
Bill: He doesn't he doesn't say he doesn't say like i want to get he's you're marrying me.
13:35
Bill and Joy: Excuse me what the
13:37
Bill and Joy: fuck there's literally two somewhat okay
13:40
Bill and Joy: because they either like minimalize them or like
13:44
Bill and Joy: infantilize them in the movie as you're watching it especially the
13:47
Bill and Joy: character of jess right and you can make that argument for claire as
13:49
Bill and Joy: well uh the first victim she yeah you
13:52
Bill and Joy: know she's like the whole like virginal one as was said before
13:55
Bill and Joy: um but that's just that's just razzing on
13:58
Bill and Joy: your girl right like is it nice no should they have no but at the same time
14:02
Bill and Joy: uh that was other women doing that to her as well which speaks to the time as
14:06
Bill and Joy: well right and it was the more masculine uh woman in the group doing it and
14:11
Bill and Joy: then you had like officer nash officer nash was absolutely useless it doesn't
14:14
Bill and Joy: do anything right how is he still in the police force in here that's.
14:17
Evan: Why isn't that.
14:18
Bill: Because that's what police do.
14:19
Bill and Joy: And then what really made me think okay
14:22
Bill and Joy: maybe they were trying to say something about like that the
14:25
Bill and Joy: women's liberation movement of the time where like the phil and
14:29
Bill and Joy: jess they both freak out when just these two
14:32
Bill and Joy: random dudes are in their windows and they're waving and doing
14:35
Bill and Joy: all this stuff hey ladies you know you gotta be careful you gotta do this you
14:38
Bill and Joy: gotta do that and they're like actively trying to tell them okay cool we're
14:41
Bill and Joy: gonna close the door and they just keep talking keep talking keep talking and
14:44
Bill and Joy: the joke at the time i guess could be like oh just you know two old like two
14:48
Bill and Joy: older men checking in on these young women you know they want to be seen as
14:51
Bill and Joy: the heroes they want to feel good whatever but if I was them I'd been like no,
14:55
Bill and Joy: get uh i'm calling the cops get out of my window 100 why are you here why are
14:59
Bill and Joy: you here right um so shout out to anybody who's listening to this watch the
15:04
Bill and Joy: second one after the first one if you haven't seen it yet.
15:07
Evan: Well for one i also really like the den mother mrs mac as well like her character
15:12
Evan: she's like hiding booze and books in the toilet so also it's kind of gross to
15:18
Evan: drink out of the bottle after it was inside of the toilet tank just for just
15:22
Evan: just to throw that out there that's.
15:24
Bill: Clean water evan that's.
15:25
Evan: I i know that but it's still kind of gross it's just
15:28
Evan: a principle of doing that like the pipes are dirty okay i
15:31
Evan: don't care if the water is clean but like the like her i love the scene where
15:36
Evan: the father of claire comes to the house and the mrs mac is like holding her
15:41
Evan: hand over this photo of you know like like people having sex on the wall and
15:46
Evan: i just i I think the aspect of it being raunchy, too,
15:50
Evan: is almost to show, in some ways, is like, yes,
15:54
Evan: women also can be like this.
15:57
Evan: They also can have, you know, desires and things like these,
16:00
Evan: where typically it's only the men that can have those in these,
16:04
Evan: like, slasher horror genre.
16:06
Bill and Joy: And I think it's also really cool that, like, throughout the movie,
16:08
Bill and Joy: you see the woman trying to break out of this, like, whole role, right?
16:12
Bill and Joy: especially like they joined the search party right when they're looking for
16:16
Bill and Joy: the 13 year old and for claire they they party they have drunk i wasn't crazy
16:21
Bill and Joy: about barb feeding the kid alcohol that wasn't cool yeah that's not cool at all did.
16:27
Bill: She just give that kid booze.
16:29
Bill and Joy: A lot of booze,
16:32
Bill and Joy: a lot of booze acknowledges it i think it's
16:35
Bill and Joy: more and then uh the
16:39
Bill and Joy: dad claire's dad who shows up he's just chill about it he's more disappointed
16:43
Bill and Joy: like he never you never really see him start to get worried until well into
16:46
Bill and Joy: the movie or yeah they like get worried to well into the movie he's more just
16:50
Bill and Joy: disappointed in his daughter like what what am i paying for this college education
16:54
Bill and Joy: for you know he's like non nonchalant yeah.
16:58
Bill: He's like nonchalantness kind of blew me away i'm like dude your daughter is missing like why.
17:04
Bill and Joy: I'd be going scorched earth in the only seriously in the and like the first
17:08
Bill and Joy: one of the first comments like that he like ever ever makes it's like,
17:12
Bill and Joy: nonchalant is just talking about her dorm room where he's like i'll make
17:15
Bill and Joy: i'll remedy this i'll see to it and it's
17:18
Bill and Joy: like it's not like a uh oh he's gonna go complain to
17:21
Bill and Joy: the college way it's like he thinks he's gonna be able to talk to
17:24
Bill and Joy: his daughter to set her straight away and it's like dog you got bigger things to
17:27
Bill and Joy: worry about right now your very reliable daughter didn't tell
17:30
Bill and Joy: you that she was gonna be late never showed up you
17:33
Bill and Joy: had to go to her house she's not at her house on
17:35
Bill and Joy: the day she's supposed to leave from everything you know about claire as a character
17:39
Bill and Joy: leading up to this from what you hear from the other girls talking about her
17:42
Bill and Joy: is that's not her immediately i if i was her daddy i'd have been like uh-oh
17:47
Bill and Joy: we're the cops we're we're searching this house up like top to bottom i'd have
17:50
Bill and Joy: found her i'd have found i'd have found claire in like the first five minutes
17:53
Bill and Joy: of being in that house even.
17:54
Evan: When they sorry dad no i'm just gonna even when they go to the cops to report
17:59
Evan: her missing and the father is there he doesn't even really say anything he just kind of just.
18:05
Bill and Joy: Sits there sort.
18:06
Evan: Of like I'm this ominous presence over the college kids you know to give them
18:12
Evan: some kind of credibility.
18:13
Bill and Joy: It takes the hometown boy being recognized throwing a fit for them to do anything about it yeah.
18:20
Bill: He is the only decent male character in the entire movie.
18:24
Evan: Are you saying that the that,
18:28
Evan: The chief, you know, played by John Saxon, isn't good because.
18:32
Bill and Joy: No, he's a cop.
18:34
Evan: Yeah, I get that. I understand.
18:36
Bill: And he.
18:38
Bill and Joy: This is left of the projector. We think we're going to be fans of cops.
18:42
Evan: ACAB includes him, obviously.
18:45
Bill: Not only that, but like at the end, it's the spoiler alert.
18:50
Bill: They never. First of all, spoiler alert. They never find Claire. Okay.
18:54
Bill: Which blew my mind. He's in the
18:57
Bill: window. The fact that they never find her body, fucking, I was shocked.
19:03
Bill: I was like, they just, that's, we're just going to, like, we're ending there.
19:07
Bill: Like, we still don't know that.
19:09
Evan: Anyway. They don't find the dead mother either.
19:11
Bill: No, they do not, because she's with Claire. Okay, but that cop,
19:15
Bill: literally just in classic cop sense at the end of it, and this is why I don't
19:20
Bill: include him as a competent male figure in the movie,
19:24
Bill: because I always knew it was him the boyfriend and the just he he goes with
19:30
Bill: what he thought and they fucked off and.
19:32
Bill and Joy: Left her there alone with somebody just standing at the front.
19:34
Bill: Yeah take her ass to the hospital immediately where's the ambulance fucking
19:38
Bill: wild i mean i don't know is that what happened in 1974 when people like apparently
19:43
Bill: in canada they took the father away but.
19:45
Evan: They take the father away because he has a panic attack and they're like get him to the hospital.
19:48
Bill: Yeah and it stands.
19:50
Bill and Joy: By the misogyny that the movie is trying to project.
19:53
Bill: Yeah. I'm like, is this what it was like in 1974?
19:57
Bill: Did people get murdered in houses and then the other people in the house are
20:01
Bill: just like, eh, fuck you. Like, what the fuck?
20:04
Bill and Joy: Well, hold on.
20:04
Evan: I do want to say.
20:06
Bill and Joy: One thing they have going for them is Mrs. Mack wasn't supposed to be at the
20:10
Bill and Joy: house anyway. They didn't think to even look for her.
20:13
Evan: Right. They just assumed she'd left.
20:15
Bill: Okay.
20:19
Bill: That's real...
20:21
Evan: Low bar another thing that's like the that
20:24
Evan: a trope that i think is the obvious one that's kind
20:27
Evan: of you see in like you see this in halloween you
20:30
Evan: see it in uh in like freddie
20:33
Evan: uh the the nightmare on elm street series is
20:37
Evan: both women are not believed and just like peep you know those kids are not believed
20:42
Evan: for anything is that they're they're trying to get someone to take seriously
20:46
Evan: that people are calling their sorority house and messing with them and they
20:50
Evan: don't care like that guy nash he's like oh okay well uh what can we what can
20:54
Evan: i do i'm just the man of the law,
20:57
Evan: you know and just the idea
21:00
Evan: that women are not believed is push well
21:03
Evan: but they also show that they have agency because
21:06
Evan: you have you know we later see that jess like sort of the main the final girl
21:12
Evan: i guess you could call her is the one who says she's not she's gonna have an
21:16
Evan: abortion because she can control her own body so the women like have autonomy
21:20
Evan: in this but they also sort of don't kind of this i.
21:24
Bill and Joy: Think it shows the fight for autonomy at the time yeah you
21:27
Bill and Joy: know yeah that's exactly what i was feeling especially like because
21:30
Bill and Joy: you hear her and she's giving the reasons as to why she doesn't want to give
21:33
Bill and Joy: birth right she's young she has all these things she wants to do she has no
21:37
Bill and Joy: interest in having a kid right now right maybe if patrick would have been such
21:42
Bill and Joy: a shithead you know which honestly i didn't like that and you hear it from the
21:45
Bill and Joy: other characters as well like nobody likes patrick well.
21:49
Bill: He is a 30 year old man dating a i'm sorry i think it's 37 year old man dating like a 20 year old.
21:58
Bill and Joy: Who's been at a conservatory for eight years and is still getting nervous about
22:02
Bill and Joy: recitals dude let it alone.
22:04
Evan: He just sucks at piano like dude can't play and.
22:08
Bill: Then he has a temper tantrum and destroys it when she goes he's never been violent
22:12
Bill: like this before, I was like,
22:14
Bill: I don't believe that. I don't believe that.
22:17
Bill and Joy: Which is why I was really upset because even saying in the movie,
22:20
Bill and Joy: like, let's do a background on Patrick.
22:22
Bill and Joy: It's like, I want to hear Patrick's background. What's up? I bet you I can get some of it right.
22:26
Evan: I feel like the cop sees that he destroyed the piano. He's like,
22:29
Evan: I knew he did it. That's him.
22:31
Evan: Like, he goes in there and he gets the call to go back. And briefly,
22:35
Evan: he sees the piano destroyed also.
22:37
Evan: So I think he just wants to leave and get married so he doesn't have to pay for the piano.
22:42
Bill: Is that how that works?
22:43
Evan: Yes.
22:44
Bill: When you get married, they let you destroy a piano?
22:46
Evan: No, no, no.
22:46
Bill and Joy: He just, in Canada. Well, no, because he has to help pay for it.
22:48
Bill and Joy: Yeah. Because man is yours, baby.
22:50
Bill and Joy: Yeah, you've seen him smash plates at Greek weddings, right?
22:53
Bill and Joy: Or something like that. I don't know. I don't know.
22:56
Bill: In Canada, they smash pianos.
22:58
Bill and Joy: It's pianos. Yeah, exactly.
23:00
Bill: He also breaks some of their Christmas tree ornaments.
23:03
Bill and Joy: That's also part of the wedding ceremony in Canada.
23:06
Bill: Like, he's clearly like.
23:07
Bill and Joy: That's another thing you're allowed to break.
23:08
Bill: That man is not okay. He needs anger management.
23:12
Bill and Joy: I know off the top of my head, at least five people that I've met in my life
23:15
Bill and Joy: and had conversations that pertain to like abortion.
23:17
Bill and Joy: Like, hey, you know, it's always the like the theoretical because none of them,
23:21
Bill and Joy: none of them even had girlfriends at the time.
23:23
Bill and Joy: So it's like, well, what would you do? And they're like, you know,
23:26
Bill and Joy: I'm, I'm, I'm me. So I'm gonna get into it with you.
23:29
Bill and Joy: They're like, oh, no, never. I would never let my girl. It's like,
23:32
Bill and Joy: why? Why wouldn't you? First of all, it's her. She has to do all the work.
23:35
Bill and Joy: What if? Okay, so let me ask you this.
23:37
Bill and Joy: What if she says, all right, I'll surrogate for you. I don't want anything.
23:40
Bill and Joy: I'm a sign of my parental rights. all these things.
23:43
Bill and Joy: What will you say? And they're always like, well, no, no, she,
23:47
Bill and Joy: she, a baby needs the mom.
23:49
Bill and Joy: Like, all right, two years in, she agrees to take care of the baby for two years.
23:52
Bill and Joy: And then she's out. What would you say?
23:53
Bill and Joy: Well, no, it's like, yeah, no, because you don't want the kid.
23:56
Bill and Joy: You want her and you're going to use the kid to keep her. Dude, don't even.
24:02
Bill and Joy: But I can almost assure you that that scene in that movie probably did start
24:05
Bill and Joy: a lot of conversation around abortion and like why women have them in the first
24:09
Bill and Joy: place and also like what they have to deal with, whatever they tell their partner.
24:13
Bill and Joy: Right. Because that's I mean, personal opinion, that is right.
24:15
Bill and Joy: You talk to your partner about it, let them know what you want and then go go
24:20
Bill and Joy: about it from there. Right.
24:21
Bill and Joy: Unless you unless maybe maybe he had never acted like that.
24:25
Bill and Joy: He just broke his brain, the whole being bad at piano, finally coming to coming
24:30
Bill and Joy: to a head and it broke his brain. and he decided to take it out on her, right?
24:34
Bill and Joy: But like, maybe he would have, like, if there was somebody that reacts like
24:37
Bill and Joy: that, I wouldn't have said nothing. And she even mentions that,
24:40
Bill and Joy: I thought about not telling you.
24:41
Bill and Joy: I'm trying to be a good person and letting you know what's going on.
24:44
Evan: I mean, I think even having that conversation with a man at that time is probably...
24:48
Bill: At that time.
24:49
Evan: I was gonna say, like, normally, they probably would just do it on their own,
24:52
Evan: would tell their friend, you know, their friend take them to the clinic and
24:55
Evan: they would just do it and never tell them.
24:57
Evan: And this actually confronting the boyfriend about it.
25:00
Evan: I mean, I understand that, I don't know how political Bob Clark was trying to
25:03
Evan: go with it, you know, if it was intentional or just he didn't write the movie.
25:08
Evan: So he just kind of changed some of the elements. But just having just being
25:11
Evan: able to bring it up to a man in 1974, I think, is political,
25:15
Evan: whether he meant it or not.
25:16
Bill: Well, he does say specifically that like he wanted the characters to not be stupid.
25:26
Evan: Yes.
25:27
Bill: In the way American films were like that. He wanted them to be treated like actual human adults.
25:33
Evan: Yes. Because the original script had them be more goofy like American films.
25:37
Evan: And he's like, no, we have to change that. Like that was the big thing he changed. So.
25:41
Bill and Joy: Good call. Good call.
25:42
Bill and Joy: Honestly, 70s were a really bad time for American filmmakers, although Porky's.
25:46
Bill: Yeah. That's what blows my mind. This man went on to make Porky's? What the fuck?
25:51
Bill and Joy: Okay, do not shit on Porky's.
25:53
Bill: Okay, I've never seen Porky's. All I know about Porky's is it's a raunchy sex comedy.
26:00
Bill and Joy: It is the great-great-grandfather of all the National Lampoon,
26:04
Bill and Joy: American Pies, all that.
26:06
Bill and Joy: It's freaking hilarious.
26:08
Bill: But, like, it doesn't seem like the philosophical, like,
26:12
Bill: descendant, like following act of this.
26:16
Evan: I disagree though, actually.
26:17
Bill and Joy: This is left of the projector pod. We can always find nuance.
26:22
Bill and Joy: We can always put a leftist analysis and critique on it.
26:26
Evan: I've never seen Porky's. Without giving away Porky's, I mean,
26:31
Evan: maybe that's, we can get Bill to watch and we can discuss it.
26:34
Evan: But I think that Black Christmas is actually, I think that Black Christmas actually is a raunchy film.
26:40
Bill and Joy: How so?
26:41
Evan: I mean, you see, you see inside of women's
26:44
Evan: sorority house which typically in movies when you do it's
26:47
Evan: more like it's like very prim and proper and they're like you know
26:50
Evan: wealthy and they're you know they do things
26:53
Evan: all fancy you can see that in like uh like revenge
26:56
Evan: of the nerds and other films like it it's like very prim and
26:59
Evan: proper in this you see like barb and you see
27:02
Evan: the inside of a sorority house as they actually are
27:05
Evan: as like human beings in a college setting also wanting to let loose you have
27:10
Evan: all of those images and the posters on the wall and i think that raunchiness
27:15
Evan: bled over into making a movie like porky's like taking it much further into
27:20
Evan: like straight comedy whereas this is like a horror version of like a raunchy comedy.
27:25
Bill and Joy: I'm i'm rocking with you hold on because i
27:27
Bill and Joy: see let me let me say it and then i want to hear what you got to
27:30
Bill and Joy: say i think that speaks more to the maturity that you
27:33
Bill and Joy: mentioned earlier of the characters right because when
27:36
Bill and Joy: you talk about like revenge and the nerds and all that that is like
27:38
Bill and Joy: the male fantasy of what a sorority house would
27:41
Bill and Joy: be not the reality i feel as if
27:44
Bill and Joy: he brought this i feel as
27:47
Bill and Joy: if he brought like this reality to it to the
27:50
Bill and Joy: sorority house which i appreciated because yeah why wouldn't you have two naked
27:54
Bill and Joy: people making a peace sign i want that poster in my house as soon as my kid
27:58
Bill and Joy: as soon as my kid hits like 18 is out the door like i'm getting that in my house
28:02
Bill and Joy: sorry go ahead work i mean i completely agree with what you're saying.
28:07
Bill and Joy: I just wanted to use that and then tailspin it into,
28:12
Bill and Joy: The fact that Evan's just such a boomer that he thinks real characters are raunchy. Word.
28:20
Bill and Joy: Word. Is that an ankle I see?
28:23
Evan: Well, it's funny because I haven't seen Porky's in a long time, to be fair.
28:29
Evan: But it's also the 80s. I feel like it's a—I mean, I know it was 1981 when it
28:35
Evan: came out, but era-wise, I think it's sort of like a change.
28:39
Evan: This is seven years earlier in the early 70s. Like you could do,
28:43
Evan: you know, different things. Yeah.
28:45
Evan: I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say with that.
28:47
Bill: It is definitely a different time.
28:49
Bill and Joy: Although, on this same track, but we're going to backtrack a little bit.
28:52
Bill and Joy: Whenever we were talking about Psycho, Psycho was inherently sexual.
28:56
Bill and Joy: This movie was not, which I really appreciated.
28:58
Evan: That's true.
28:59
Bill and Joy: You don't know what the killer's motivations are this entire time.
29:04
Bill and Joy: You just know that he has something. Like, yeah, oh, he's a creep.
29:07
Bill and Joy: He's definitely a creep. The moaner, as they call him.
29:09
Bill and Joy: But then it changes and it escalates. And something happened to push the killer over the edge.
29:14
Bill and Joy: you that's part of the suspense and part of like the on edge of your seat at
29:17
Bill and Joy: the end of the movie sorry spoilers is that you never find out who's billy who's
29:23
Bill and Joy: agnes what did agnes do to billy if you knew agnes was bad why'd you leave.
29:27
Evan: Billy there's lots of theories there's theories on like the whole
29:30
Evan: yeah like what i mean one theory also
29:33
Evan: is that he originally was just calling the house you know from somewhere wherever
29:37
Evan: he lives you know and then this is like the escalation i I think his motivation
29:42
Evan: is like emasculation or some sort of traumatic event where maybe he hurt his
29:48
Evan: sister or he saw something messed up.
29:52
Evan: Because the way that they have him sort of looking through the attic door and
29:57
Evan: the one time you see his eye, which is super creepy, and his face,
30:02
Evan: like when he's in the attic and he throws the, what is it, like the hook?
30:07
Evan: I don't know what that thing is called. You know, like at the den mother.
30:10
Bill: It's like a pulley.
30:10
Evan: A pulley or whatever. Yeah. Which I don't know why they had that up there to begin with.
30:14
Bill: It's so weird.
30:15
Evan: It also seems clear to me that he maybe lived in that house as a child is another
30:19
Evan: theory. You know, I don't know.
30:22
Bill and Joy: See, my theory for this one is that maybe there's an emasculation,
30:26
Bill and Joy: something going on in his life, as you said before.
30:29
Bill and Joy: But I wonder, is Billy like a young family member who passed?
30:35
Bill and Joy: And is that why, like after hearing the conversation that Jess has with Patrick about the abortion,
30:41
Bill and Joy: right, that you wonder, and maybe he knew about it before, and that also led
30:46
Bill and Joy: to like some of the escalation, because you don't know that's his first time in the house.
30:50
Bill and Joy: He got up there real easy.
30:51
Evan: That's true.
30:52
Bill and Joy: But, but, so I'm wondering if that's, and that's why he concentrated on Jess
30:58
Bill and Joy: so hard and waited to kill her for last, is because she was the one and her
31:03
Bill and Joy: situation pushed him over that edge.
31:05
Bill and Joy: And why he couldn't help but keep repeating and bringing up, like, Agnes, right?
31:10
Evan: Yeah. I guess that makes, it does make sense that he would have been in the
31:13
Evan: house before, like, spying on them and knew things about them.
31:17
Bill and Joy: He moves around real comfortable.
31:19
Bill: Yeah, he does.
31:19
Bill and Joy: Like he knows where he's going he knows exactly where he's going there's no
31:23
Bill and Joy: like fumbling about i love the great it's also like good filmmaking but still oh.
31:27
Evan: Yeah that like the using like i guess they tied i don't didn't look into i assume
31:31
Evan: they just tied the handheld to his head like to a helmet or some kind and he
31:35
Evan: walked you know they show him only a few times where he's actually using his
31:38
Evan: hands to climb and it's super creepy.
31:41
Bill and Joy: Yeah i like those shots it really like pulls you out of like the nice cinematic
31:44
Bill and Joy: shots that you get before and after like the rest of the film And like when
31:48
Bill and Joy: it pulls you into those like janky first person camera moments,
31:52
Bill and Joy: it's like, oh, fuck, it's so unsettling.
31:54
Evan: Some of like the best, I mean, again, the cinematography in this is really good.
31:57
Evan: One of the most unsettling scenes that for me,
32:02
Evan: other than like not, not including the killing scenes, like there's a scene
32:04
Evan: where they're on the phone with him and all of like the phone rings and you
32:07
Evan: sort of see all of the different sorority house members sort of enter the room
32:11
Evan: all from different locations.
32:13
Evan: And then he zooms in to each of the individual faces, like slowly scanning all
32:18
Evan: of them as they're sort of like horrified by this.
32:21
Evan: And I think it, maybe we already said this before, it's the...
32:25
Evan: treatment that women experience in movies like
32:28
Evan: revenge of the nerds as a
32:32
Evan: good thing which that movie is deeply problematic and terrible it's not good
32:36
Evan: no it's really really really bad or animal house like you know that movie has
32:40
Evan: not aged well oh god really really bad and then this you sort of see the opposite
32:44
Evan: of like actually the impact that these things have on it.
32:49
Bill and Joy: Human it humanizes them. In a time where, I mean, this is a little bit off topic,
32:54
Bill and Joy: but on like, especially the portrayal of women in cinema, Ward and I were talking
32:57
Bill and Joy: about how women in the US cinema were portrayed, especially black women and
33:02
Bill and Joy: the hyper-sexualization of them.
33:04
Bill and Joy: I attributed it at the time to basically kind of like,
33:08
Bill and Joy: almost like a psyop, like, you know, like just tearing down the women's liberation
33:12
Bill and Joy: movement, especially in that hyper-sexualization of specifically like black
33:15
Bill and Joy: and brown women because they were so like at the forefront of that movement.
33:20
Bill and Joy: And it just kind of like took away some of that power.
33:23
Bill and Joy: So it was really cool to watch a movie from that time that gave some of that
33:27
Bill and Joy: power and some of that autonomy back to them.
33:30
Evan: Yeah, it does do that.
33:31
Bill and Joy: I know what y'all think of that, but.
33:33
Evan: What was I just going to say about that?
33:34
Bill: I mean, that makes sense. I mean.
33:35
Bill and Joy: I might be fishing here too.
33:37
Bill: The treatment of the female characters is. What's the curly girls?
33:42
Bill: What's her curly haired girl?
33:43
Bill and Joy: That's Phil.
33:44
Evan: Phyllis.
33:45
Bill: Phil.
33:45
Evan: Yeah.
33:45
Bill: Her character is treated so. She's clearly like a college student.
33:50
Bill: Despite the fact they're all like fucking 30. um but like
33:53
Bill: it goes back to like where he's like these are like real
33:56
Bill: people who deserve respect and
33:59
Bill: are thinking things are like that woman is a
34:02
Bill: reasonable person throughout the entire thing just like cares about things maternal
34:08
Bill: figure yeah she's totally she is the most responsible character but she's also
34:13
Bill: not an outlier she doesn't make the other ones look stupid or silly despite
34:18
Bill: standing apart in so many ways it's.
34:21
Bill and Joy: A healthy female friendship.
34:21
Bill: Yeah yeah.
34:24
Bill and Joy: Which is something that you didn't see a lot and you honestly don't see very often now in movies.
34:28
Bill: Right there.
34:29
Bill and Joy: Even with even like the movie can pass the bechdel test but you always got that
34:33
Bill and Joy: one person who's uh basically like in the movie coined like the one that's slightly above right
34:40
Bill and Joy: And they managed to not do that with the character of Phil, which,
34:44
Bill and Joy: by the way, they bring up that Phil has a boyfriend out of nowhere.
34:47
Bill and Joy: And it makes you wonder, like, oh, hey, is that a clue?
34:51
Bill: It's the guy. It's the Santa Claus guy.
34:54
Evan: No.
34:55
Bill: That's not.
34:56
Bill and Joy: Santa Claus guy is somebody else. Santa Claus guy was supposed to meet up with.
35:00
Bill: No, he's in the very beginning. He comes back as Santa Claus later on.
35:04
Bill: He's the very beginning. He's the guy with the giant afro and beard.
35:08
Evan: I don't think that was her boyfriend, though. I don't think.
35:10
Bill: Oh, he wasn't?
35:11
Evan: I don't think so.
35:12
Bill and Joy: No. Oh, I thought he was your boyfriend. No, because he wasn't dating the girl
35:18
Bill and Joy: he was supposed to go with. He had been working on it for three weeks.
35:21
Bill: Oh, okay. All right. I understood that. Okay.
35:24
Evan: This is like a completely unrelated, just a random note. The guy who plays Chris,
35:28
Evan: who I guess was Claire's boyfriend, who has that pretty sick fur coat, or just like super 70s.
35:35
Evan: he was originally like he was going to be the
35:39
Evan: uh peter character so like the the main sort of i guess villain but yeah the
35:45
Evan: guy's but they yeah well i mean i think it was that they had already hired the
35:48
Evan: other guy for that spot and he's like oh man like you know it's too late we
35:51
Evan: already offered it to him because
35:53
Evan: part of the rules for for these canadian films they have to have 60,
35:57
Evan: canadian actors and then 40 could be american or whatever because you know i.
36:03
Bill and Joy: Mean funded by the Canadian government like that I mean that.
36:05
Evan: Makes sense.
36:06
Bill and Joy: I mean they're they're providing jobs uh huh.
36:09
Evan: Yeah, what do you think of the sort of the main character, Jess, like as her character?
36:16
Evan: I mean, she was sort of like already kind of famous because she was in the 1968
36:21
Evan: Romeo and Juliet and like got, was like a huge star in.
36:25
Bill and Joy: I knew I knew her.
36:26
Evan: Yeah, and so that's why she, they like brought her in to sort of be the star
36:30
Evan: of the movie. You know, like people that people knew at the time.
36:33
Bill: I love the story as to how she got this.
36:35
Evan: Oh, yeah, that's good.
36:36
Bill: How she came to this.
36:37
Evan: Go ahead, do tell it.
36:38
Bill: She went to a psychic, and the psychic told her that she would make a movie
36:43
Bill: in Canada that made a lot of money, and that's why she took the role, which is fucking wild.
36:51
Evan: And she doesn't actually consider it to be, like, all the people who were in
36:55
Evan: it at the time didn't think they were making, if they're making a good movie,
36:59
Evan: but they didn't think they were making a movie that anyone would care about.
37:01
Bill and Joy: It's such a cult classic.
37:02
Evan: Yeah, like all of the people who are alive, for the most part,
37:05
Evan: the actors, like do the circuit of, you know, horror conventions because most
37:09
Evan: of them aren't successful actors.
37:11
Evan: They weren't, you know, exactly successful. The only one in the movie,
37:15
Evan: I think, that was became, I wouldn't call him successful, but people,
37:19
Evan: he's in movies that people know, was John Saxon, who also wasn't supposed to be the cop.
37:23
Evan: He took the role two days before the movie because the first person dropped
37:26
Evan: out. And what's also interesting is that he is considered to be,
37:31
Evan: he was in the first ever, like, Italian slasher, like, the Jello movie.
37:37
Evan: And a lot of people call this the first American, or Canadian,
37:41
Evan: the first North American slasher movie.
37:44
Evan: So it's kind of, he has, like, a lot of interesting things to say about the movie.
37:48
Evan: It's worth watching his interviews. He's kind of a weird dude.
37:51
Bill and Joy: I wanted to see something.
37:54
Evan: He's also in Nightmare on Elm Street as the cop, too, so I guess he was kind
37:57
Evan: of typecast as the doofus cop.
38:01
Bill and Joy: Because I...
38:02
Bill and Joy: Okay, maybe y'all can help me because I suck at Googling things.
38:05
Bill and Joy: Is Officer Nash Frank from Gallagher or Frank Gallagher from Shameless?
38:11
Evan: No, I don't think so.
38:12
Bill: No, no. Wait.
38:14
Bill and Joy: Because I swear he reminded me of him.
38:18
Bill: Do you mean which Shameless?
38:21
Bill and Joy: The American Shameless.
38:22
Bill: No.
38:23
Bill and Joy: No?
38:24
Evan: I haven't seen that, so I couldn't tell you.
38:26
Bill and Joy: William H. Macy.
38:27
Evan: Oh, okay. I see. The main character. I could have said that,
38:30
Evan: yeah. I think that guy, the actor wasn't in much except for like some Bob Clark movies.
38:34
Evan: He was in Porky's as the gym teacher.
38:37
Evan: He was in some other like very small roles. I don't think he, he didn't do it to a ton.
38:42
Bill: Yeah, he really, he has, he's not been in a lot.
38:46
Evan: He was in the Twilight Zone.
38:47
Bill: He was in the Twilight Zone movie. He was in the Rocketeer as like literally reporter number three.
38:52
Bill: Like he, you know, he never made, he didn't make it big.
38:56
Evan: You know what movie he was in? he was in john carpenter's ghost of mars which
39:00
Evan: if people know that movie it's not that good.
39:04
Bill and Joy: I gotta say though um officer nash i really wish that the killer would have got.
39:08
Evan: Him i did not like him i love i love his the when barb was like yes the new
39:13
Evan: exchange is fellatio whatever the number was and he like didn't know what that
39:17
Evan: meant and then the officers the other.
39:21
Bill: Detective i that other His entire role in the entire movie is just to laugh
39:26
Bill: at Officer Nash. That's his job.
39:28
Bill: That's how he got cast. They were like, hey, do you want to come for a role?
39:32
Bill: Your entire job is to laugh at this one guy. Just laugh at him. That's your job.
39:38
Bill: That's all he does.
39:39
Bill and Joy: Solid job.
39:40
Bill: Yeah. And he does a great job at it.
39:42
Evan: I mean, that's on par on Brand for Cops, right?
39:46
Bill: Yeah. Yeah.
39:47
Bill and Joy: Yeah, no, but like, and like the scene that he frustrated me throughout the
39:52
Bill and Joy: entire movie, but the one that got me the worst was when he does literally the wrong thing.
39:57
Bill and Joy: He is told, hey, just tell her, don't hang up the phone, just walk out the door,
40:02
Bill and Joy: be calm, be cool, collected, immediately loses his cool.
40:08
Bill and Joy: Starts screaming at her that the killer is in the house. Bruh, bruh.
40:11
Evan: Yeah, Google.
40:12
Bill: He's not smart.
40:12
Evan: Google 40% of cops and you can see why he did that. But he does utter the great
40:17
Evan: line of, the call is coming from inside the house.
40:21
Bill: Yeah.
40:21
Evan: He had one job, he failed, but he gave us that line.
40:24
Bill and Joy: Valid. Was it worth it?
40:25
Evan: Well.
40:26
Bill and Joy: But at what cost?
40:30
Evan: But it is sort of funny. He's continuously working this whole time and just
40:36
Evan: botching everything. He doesn't understand jokes.
40:39
Bill: He's bad at his job.
40:40
Evan: Yeah. I also think it's absolutely hysterical the way they had to capture the,
40:45
Evan: like, to trace the phone call, which I still don't quite understand.
40:50
Evan: He's, like, running through the phone company place, like, looking for,
40:53
Evan: like, things that are clicking. I don't.
40:55
Bill and Joy: I mean, it's also the 70s. That makes sense to me.
40:58
Evan: I guess, yeah. And Canada.
40:59
Bill and Joy: You know? Like, also, shout out to linemen.
41:03
Bill and Joy: It's a hard job.
41:04
Bill: I 100% I was just like, there is a lot of cardio for what I would imagine is a very technical job.
41:14
Bill: Like this man is running for his life. I'm like,
41:19
Bill: I want to know, I want to know the logistics behind all of that because that
41:23
Bill: is, I got to be honest, I finished this movie and I'm like, now I want to research
41:28
Bill: the way phones worked in 1974.
41:30
Bill and Joy: Because that's.
41:31
Bill: A fucking what a giant room and you have to like physically go to this like thing like what the hell.
41:37
Bill and Joy: Is happening it makes sense though because like in like the up
41:40
Bill and Joy: until like i want to say the early 60s they still had the women sitting there
41:44
Bill and Joy: and like connecting the call the operator you know what i mean yeah yeah like
41:48
Bill and Joy: manually so it makes sense that even though like okay yeah it's automated now
41:52
Bill and Joy: uh you'd still it'd still be very much the same idea of like okay I got it started here.
41:58
Bill and Joy: So over here now, it's like, trying to keep up. You know what I mean?
42:01
Bill and Joy: It still shouldn't be that physically exhausting to trace a phone call.
42:06
Bill and Joy: Well, no, because think about it. He has to, he has to see all of them, right?
42:10
Bill and Joy: Like which one started at this exact time?
42:13
Evan: It was, I also love when they're asking them about.
42:16
Bill and Joy: They ain't got a display board. No, because it's the seventies ward.
42:21
Bill and Joy: They had display boards.
42:23
Evan: I mean, the CIA would have had a much better way to trace the call.
42:26
Bill: Yeah, obviously.
42:28
Bill and Joy: They wouldn't use it to help people. See, that's the scene that should have
42:32
Bill and Joy: happened is like he goes into like the actual like the main fucking phone company's
42:37
Bill and Joy: room and goes, I can't fucking figure it out.
42:39
Bill and Joy: And then runs down the hall to the CIA fucking annex that's built into the phone
42:43
Bill and Joy: company and goes, ah, there it is. It's coming from inside the house.
42:47
Bill and Joy: Like he even has access.
42:50
Bill and Joy: The security clearance is clear in there, but.
42:54
Bill and Joy: It's already physically exhausting, apparently, to trace a phone call.
42:57
Bill and Joy: He's already acting like he's so over it.
42:59
Bill and Joy: Yes, there's a sense of urgency, but he's more frustrated. Like,
43:03
Bill and Joy: I'm trying to do my job well.
43:04
Bill and Joy: Which I can understand. I appreciate
43:06
Bill and Joy: professionalism. You want to do your job, you want to do it well.
43:08
Bill and Joy: But, buddy, people are dying. You can have some empathy while you do it.
43:12
Bill: I don't know. Honestly, I take it back.
43:15
Bill: The boyfriend wasn't the only man worth a damn in the movie.
43:19
Bill: The phone man actually did seem to care.
43:21
Evan: He did. So this is unrelated to this movie, and we don't need to talk about them.
43:26
Evan: I actually have not seen the remakes or the sequel, whatever they are.
43:29
Evan: Are they worth watching?
43:31
Bill and Joy: I really enjoyed the 2019 one.
43:33
Evan: I've heard the 2006 one isn't good, but I haven't heard much about the newest one.
43:38
Bill and Joy: I haven't seen that one. The newest one, like I said in the beginning,
43:41
Bill and Joy: I wish I would have watched it after I watched the first one.
43:45
Bill and Joy: Because now what I can remember, because it's been a couple of years,
43:47
Bill and Joy: now what I can remember of the 2016 one,
43:49
Bill and Joy: i it clicks for me a lot better and
43:52
Bill and Joy: it's not so much that they remade it they built off
43:55
Bill and Joy: of it and made it their own okay interesting but if i remember correctly they
44:00
Bill and Joy: still do a pretty good job of keeping true and trying to like give these characters
44:03
Bill and Joy: autonomy um nobody gets dressed up in the stupid little sorority frilly like
44:08
Bill and Joy: sexy outfits or anything like that like these women are women who are actively
44:11
Bill and Joy: trying not to die you know i mean yeah.
44:14
Evan: I think i just was looking the newest one the one from 2019 was directed by
44:19
Evan: sophia takal and i don't know her that well but it's directed by a woman which
44:23
Evan: i find interesting because some of the,
44:28
Evan: better horror movies and satires about these kind of things you know come from
44:33
Evan: women i think of american psycho or uh slumber party massacre directed by women
44:40
Evan: so i could see why it would be better and she's from new jersey.
44:43
Bill: Bill there you go all right all right okay for that from unclear i just.
44:48
Bill and Joy: Take that back.
44:53
Bill: No i'll you know i'll let it pass um i
44:56
Bill: uh i just the what the other
44:59
Bill: thing that i found like kind of interesting about this
45:02
Bill: in comparison to modern slashers is how like they don't know there being like
45:11
Bill: the the the actual deaths are so buried like the this it really is it's,
45:20
Bill: i wouldn't even call it a murder mystery it really is
45:23
Bill: more of a thriller because we you
45:26
Bill: don't find the characters don't find out anyone is
45:29
Bill: dead until like the last the
45:32
Bill: god fucking even into the third act true
45:35
Bill: like they just think they're dealing with the possibility of claire being dead
45:43
Bill: is never mentioned except for barb who says it in a drunken tangent yeah nobody
45:51
Bill: ever even brings that up like but you see.
45:55
Bill and Joy: I feel as if that's portraying more of the character's hope in the situation
45:58
Bill and Joy: because even after that 13 year that 13 year old is found like they still never
46:02
Bill and Joy: bring it up I feel like that's that humanity that's coming out in the movie.
46:06
Bill: Of
46:07
Bill and Joy: I don't want to think this about my friend. I refuse to until I see her cold
46:11
Bill and Joy: dead body. She's still alive. Right.
46:13
Bill and Joy: Which I thought was a really interesting element that they gave to the movie
46:17
Bill and Joy: where they're not, there's still hope during it, which I think is part of the
46:21
Bill and Joy: reason why I held that up so well, because you can feel there.
46:25
Bill and Joy: Yes, there's tension. There's worry. There's this, there's that.
46:28
Bill and Joy: But there's still hope holding out, you know, until the very end where like
46:31
Bill and Joy: just, and then like you get to see that character crumble right into her.
46:36
Bill and Joy: like i don't want to call it a manic state that's not
46:39
Bill and Joy: fair i would be manic anybody else would be finding two of
46:41
Bill and Joy: your best friends dead in a bed together yeah right and
46:45
Bill and Joy: even in that scene as well going back to it that scene he
46:48
Bill and Joy: obviously poses them but the pose is not anything that is like outright inappropriate
46:54
Bill and Joy: sexual anything like that it's there it's almost as if they're holding one another
46:58
Bill and Joy: like an embrace that is just inherently just like you know affection yeah you
47:03
Bill and Joy: know what i mean i thought that was a really interesting element but because.
47:06
Evan: A lot of slasher movies modern slasher movies don't really have or i think of
47:10
Evan: ones from the 80s even or you know the you know once scream came out like there
47:13
Evan: isn't a lot of hope in those movies and.
47:16
Bill and Joy: Positivity you.
47:17
Evan: Know like it's sort of just like everyone is just gonna die whereas in this
47:20
Evan: like you don't really know and the characters don't really know.
47:23
Bill and Joy: I think bill it adds to your own suspense as well so whatever she does hit that
47:27
Bill and Joy: point of like oh my god dude like finding them you're feeling it with her yeah.
47:33
Bill: But i just thought it was really an interesting you know it's such an interesting
47:37
Bill: take on it because it's so different from what we're used to it goes back to
47:40
Bill: again it's like for a film that is considered like the progenitor of the slasher
47:46
Bill: like this film like does not like it is barely there's no there's barely any gore,
47:52
Bill: death is like not a topic like it really is that is a secondary concern.
47:58
Evan: There's the only time you really hear about it's very interesting to me
48:01
Evan: when barb is having sort of her little
48:03
Evan: outburst with the father there and she sort of
48:06
Evan: is like oh you're like all blaming me like you know you won't say this
48:09
Evan: like i'm the one to blame other than that she's the harbinger and other than
48:13
Evan: yeah she's other than that like there is no real assumption like even after
48:18
Evan: what happened with the girl like they don't even again how is that dad so calm
48:22
Evan: it's like dude seriously when even after they i'm.
48:26
Bill and Joy: Gonna say it again the massage.
48:27
Evan: Even after they find like the girl's body which they
48:30
Evan: also don't show you just hear like the shriek in the background like yeah again
48:36
Evan: also just like this terrifying so another awesome thing is when a couple of
48:41
Evan: the murders happen i think it's actually when barb is murdered and they have
48:45
Evan: the kids outside caroling and they go like back and forth between like,
48:49
Evan: you know, the stabbing and then like the kids singing.
48:52
Evan: Like there's some amazing, you know, cuts in this movie that are just,
48:56
Evan: I don't know, you just don't like get that kind of...
48:59
Evan: You get lazy filmmaking from most horror movies.
49:02
Bill: Yes.
49:02
Bill and Joy: And I feel as if that just, like, disrespects the genre so much. And I love horror genre.
49:07
Evan: You just get, like, these schlocky-ass films.
49:09
Bill and Joy: Yeah, dude. Like, freaking Art the Clown from, like, The Terrifier.
49:15
Bill: God, I fucking hate those movies.
49:17
Bill and Joy: I hate those movies. And I have tried. I've tried so many times to watch them.
49:22
Bill and Joy: Like, there's no nothing to them.
49:24
Bill and Joy: It's just gore. It's not even good gore.
49:27
Bill: That is such, I mean, that is such a great thing to bring up because of those
49:32
Bill: movies, all three of those movies are considered like cult classics of the genre
49:38
Bill: in the contemporary genre.
49:40
Bill: And you get people referencing especially
49:43
Bill: the second one as a film that is more feminist and anti-misogynist and yet we
49:52
Bill: take this movie from 1974 and compare the two and this is such a richer exploration
49:58
Bill: of that and without that.
50:02
Bill: descending into the really not even just descending but using gore and um shock
50:11
Bill: value as a a cop-out for actually confronting such things because that those
50:19
Bill: movies i mean like i find them utterly detestable.
50:22
Bill and Joy: The scream movie that came out recently the one that had uh
50:25
Bill and Joy: the girlfriend with jenny ortega in it not the one where they're
50:28
Bill and Joy: in new york the one before that the remake yeah i
50:30
Bill and Joy: thought yeah i thought that one did a much better job or at least even coming
50:35
Bill and Joy: close to black christmas in regards to what you were just discussing bill than
50:41
Bill and Joy: any of the terrifier movies because oh i cannot go on like i need to actually
50:46
Bill and Joy: sit down and finally like finish one that's how bad it turns.
50:49
Evan: Out also that the director writer damian leone is also a piece too so like it doesn't doesn't.
50:56
Bill and Joy: Doesn't help the.
50:57
Evan: Case of the films being a feminist perception when he is a i don't think it's like he's.
51:03
Bill and Joy: It's like when people touted rr uh yeah rr martin jr.
51:07
Bill: George rr martin.
51:09
Bill and Joy: George rr martin thank you sorry told you
51:11
Bill and Joy: names but george rr martin whenever people were touting him as such a great
51:16
Bill and Joy: feminist during like the whole game of thrones series it's like how this is
51:20
Bill and Joy: what you consider feminism well like his main one of his main female characters
51:24
Bill and Joy: gets sold basically sold into
51:26
Bill and Joy: like into a marriage to somebody like okay i'm go ahead i want to hear it.
51:30
Bill: This is not a valid criticism of george rr martin because george rr martin did
51:34
Bill: not write those things in the books in the books that's not the way it happens
51:40
Bill: the book is totally different.
51:42
Bill and Joy: So i should be hating on the duffy brothers or whoever it was yes who is it i don't know whoever.
51:47
Evan: It was Because they've ruined the whole thing, pretty much.
51:50
Bill: Yeah. Okay. Okay. This is, like, George R.R.
51:53
Bill: Martin has his problems, don't get me wrong, but, like, all of the,
51:56
Bill: like, blatant, like, gross, violent misogyny is really...
52:03
Bill: really the show not the.
52:06
Bill and Joy: Books and not from martin i'm
52:08
Bill and Joy: still working on a lot of the books i'm not gonna lie i have so much
52:11
Bill and Joy: stuff i'm reading right now but and so they're like my little like break
52:14
Bill and Joy: from that but um yeah i'll give you that because like honestly like blood and
52:19
Bill and Joy: fire whatever which one like the whole like prequel to the game of thrones series
52:23
Bill and Joy: and all that uh that one yeah it was he was very like pro-feminist in that so
52:28
Bill and Joy: maybe okay yeah i'll just hate i'll hate on the film all like the like.
52:33
Evan: Disgusting uh like rape from the from the show is not in the books at all like
52:39
Evan: all that stuff is just added just i think it's like well we don't need to go
52:43
Evan: i mean i think it's the writers of the show wanting to really separate.
52:47
Bill and Joy: I think they were trying to make it exactly exactly.
52:49
Bill: That's totally what it was.
52:51
Bill and Joy: Which goes right back into what we were discussing about the Terrifier as opposed
52:55
Bill and Joy: to that Scream movie that I can't remember which one it is or Black Christmas
53:00
Bill and Joy: in which it was for purely shock value and then you're touting it as being pro-feminist.
53:05
Evan: If you haven't seen Slumber Party Massacre, the first one, not necessarily the
53:09
Evan: sequels, I would highly recommend it.
53:10
Evan: It was directed by and written by a woman and it is a very feminist,
53:15
Evan: I would almost argue more of a feminist film than this one.
53:18
Bill and Joy: Okay. But you see, that's something about this one. it's not
53:21
Bill and Joy: out like it wasn't until after like towards
53:24
Bill and Joy: the end of the movie i'm like damn like they're they're they're here
53:27
Bill and Joy: for the girlies i like this movie like it's not something that
53:29
Bill and Joy: was outright which again like brings us back to like the whole like did
53:32
Bill and Joy: he need to be political with this movie or it didn't just happen that
53:35
Bill and Joy: way because of how well it was done yeah what do
53:38
Bill and Joy: you guys think i mean i think it's just part of the whole like you know deciding
53:42
Bill and Joy: that and yeah everything's political and having making the decision no we're
53:48
Bill and Joy: gonna have like real characters that are like actual like intelligent characters
53:51
Bill and Joy: not just fucking doofuses running around getting slashed up right also give.
53:55
Evan: Canada like the thumbs up too because i don't think that an american director
53:59
Evan: an american film company would make that movie in 1974.
54:03
Bill and Joy: I feel as i feel as if we like especially americans tend to sleep on canadian
54:07
Bill and Joy: film and like canadian just like uh media in general they got some good stuff
54:14
Bill and Joy: okay like every time i i watch a show and i'm like dang i'm hooked on this show. It's out of Canada.
54:18
Bill: Talk about it.
54:21
Bill and Joy: I've actually been to canada and i had i've yet to meet a canadian who didn't say a boots
54:27
Bill and Joy: i i uh i was in oh my god where was it oh it was in nova scotia we were in nova
54:33
Bill and Joy: scotia and i was walking around i asked somebody's like hey do you know like
54:36
Bill and Joy: where like where the nearest bar is bud he goes yeah it's a boot to that uh
54:40
Bill and Joy: whatever whatever that way some kilometers i'm like ah Ah,
54:45
Bill and Joy: I love you. Say it again.
54:47
Evan: There are a lot of great Canadian shows.
54:49
Bill: There are a lot of, yeah.
54:51
Bill and Joy: Yes, and movies as well.
54:53
Bill: The sci-fi series Continuum is really good. That's a Canadian show.
54:58
Evan: Yeah, blanking on like, well, I mean, as far as like comedy goes,
55:02
Evan: like from the 90s, or I guess it was the 90s, Kids in the Hall,
55:05
Evan: I always liked that show.
55:06
Bill: Or we could just talk about Letterkenny.
55:07
Evan: Yeah.
55:07
Bill and Joy: Yeah, I was going to say Letterkenny. Come on. It's like right there.
55:12
Bill and Joy: To be fair. uh we walk the kids
55:15
Bill and Joy: together to school and she's canadian and she's actually from the town where
55:20
Bill and Joy: letter kenny is filmed in and has the accent and everything and i remember when
55:25
Bill and Joy: i first met her i'm like are you from the south because something something
55:27
Bill and Joy: it's so it's kind of southern but i there's something about it she goes oh no
55:31
Bill and Joy: and she told me that i'm like oh my god,
55:35
Bill and Joy: oh can you say let's get at her does she talk about the shmillies no she doesn't
55:41
Bill and Joy: she's actually really she's a she's a really sweet lady i really like her but
55:45
Bill and Joy: uh yeah no it was just like fun fact i'm like oh my god and she says a boot
55:48
Bill and Joy: and i'm like oh my god i love canada.
55:51
Evan: It's funny, like, when you go to the Wikipedia page for a lot of horror movies,
55:55
Evan: it'll have, you know, themes and things, like, from the movie.
55:58
Evan: There's none of that in the one for this movie, which kind of surprises me.
56:03
Evan: Like, if you, like, go online, like, look for, you know, people who've written about these.
56:08
Evan: Even film critics at the time panned this movie.
56:11
Evan: And then there's actually an interview in, like, this bonus feature on the Blu-ray
56:15
Evan: where it's, I think it's, like, 30 years later, they're interviewing a bunch
56:18
Evan: of people about the legacy.
56:19
Evan: and all these critics are like yeah i watched it back then i didn't like it
56:23
Evan: and then i watched it 10 years later i'm like oh man what the hell was i thinking
56:25
Evan: and i think people just like didn't,
56:28
Evan: view it as a good movie at the time just simply dismissing it as a crappy slasher
56:33
Evan: movie and then when they actually watched it with you know even a tiny bit of
56:36
Evan: critical thought like they could see it's a good well-made movie the characters
56:40
Evan: are believable you know everything about it.
56:42
Bill: I i genuinely think that has to
56:45
Bill: has to be like that this because
56:48
Bill: to go back to the very first thing that like joy
56:51
Bill: warden i also like this isn't a slasher film this
56:54
Bill: is it's a thriller and like i really
56:57
Bill: feel like it was almost like they didn't know what to make of
57:00
Bill: it because it's such a nascent it's it's the nascent like origin of the slasher
57:06
Bill: film it has like the elements to it but then partnered with it is that like
57:10
Bill: real like hardcore just like it's a thriller and it's like where are you going
57:15
Bill: with this and i i really just think it's like so distinct.
57:18
Evan: Yeah compared.
57:19
Bill and Joy: To other thrillers yeah.
57:21
Evan: Like the all of the the characters uh the
57:24
Evan: the interviews one the one with lynn griffin who plays claire and then the guy
57:28
Evan: who played chris uh art hindle there are a lot of interviews with them they're
57:32
Evan: not the most interesting people to be honest the interviews are a little bit
57:35
Evan: dry but they have like really good insights where they all are like this movie
57:39
Evan: was one of them actually think they say that they miss um
57:43
Evan: they didn't know how to market the movie either and i think that maybe goes
57:46
Evan: to the same point as they wanted to be like an american horror movie but it
57:51
Evan: wasn't you know it's more of a psychological thriller as i think what you're
57:55
Evan: saying which i think is reasonable i.
57:56
Bill and Joy: Would call it more like i would call it more like the like a granddaddy like
58:01
Bill and Joy: or grandmommy say uh of like a psych thriller i could get.
58:04
Evan: With that a lot of movies you know took things from
58:07
Evan: this like i don't know if you've my bloody valentine like the the
58:10
Evan: premise of the movie is the character like literally hides in
58:14
Evan: sort of a crevice by crawling in with a pov view and he claimed i can't think
58:18
Evan: of the directors now but he said later on that he didn't consciously try and
58:23
Evan: copy this movie he just sort of like that seemed like the right thing to do
58:26
Evan: and then he in retrospect's like yeah that was bob clark's idea i think a lot of movies use this the.
58:32
Bill: Person hiding in the attic is one of the most terrifying not not urban legends
58:39
Bill: real stories that happen real yeah it's so terrifying truly terrifying i.
58:46
Bill and Joy: Kept thinking about that the entire time and i was like this shit really happens.
58:49
Bill: Yeah like i literally like the i felt tension and you know like it made me feel
58:55
Bill: like i find three-story houses creepy.
58:58
Evan: Because when.
58:59
Bill: You're on the ground floor there's like two stories yeah two stories above you
59:06
Bill: is something that you are like totally removed from and you don't know what the fuck is happening i.
59:11
Evan: Mean they couldn't find the fucking bodies up there going on like anything.
59:15
Bill: Could be going on up there in the third floor and that house the way they shot
59:20
Bill: it they made it feel like a labyrinth oh yeah.
59:24
Evan: Yeah i mean you're right it.
59:25
Bill and Joy: Doesn't feel like a nice open floor plan at all no i think it honestly though
59:30
Bill and Joy: i think it adds to the suspense as well though because you don't know Well,
59:34
Bill and Joy: there you are the entire time.
59:35
Bill and Joy: I kept wondering, like, how have they not found that body yet?
59:39
Evan: Yeah. I mean...
59:41
Evan: So I guess it's actually four floors if you include the attic then,
59:44
Evan: Bill, right? And then plus the basement. I mean, it's a pretty – I.
59:47
Bill: Don't – no.
59:48
Bill and Joy: That's too many floors.
59:48
Bill: I don't include attics and basements as floors.
59:51
Evan: Okay, fine.
59:52
Bill: They're extraneous and they make it even creepier, but they're not floors.
59:57
Bill and Joy: What if it's a finished basement?
59:59
Bill: I live in a finished basement? Don't make me believe I live in a three-story house, okay?
1:00:07
Bill: Okay? Could you not do that? That'd be great.
1:00:10
Evan: The basement is super creepy. The basement is super creepy in this,
1:00:13
Evan: though, when she goes down there.
1:00:15
Bill and Joy: Yes.
1:00:16
Evan: Obviously, there's never a moment where I think the audience watching thinks
1:00:21
Evan: that it's Peter who did it because he's not really there doing it.
1:00:24
Evan: He's clearly not there doing it. But in some ways, you're like,
1:00:28
Evan: just like the way the cops assume that it's him, I think you're kind of given
1:00:31
Evan: in that last scene, like, could, is he capable of doing this?
1:00:35
Evan: Like, you know, he's this violent guy.
1:00:36
Bill: Yes, I do think he's capable.
1:00:37
Bill and Joy: For a half a minute, I did think it was, I did think it was,
1:00:41
Bill and Joy: I could call him Patrick, I'm sorry, Peter.
1:00:43
Bill and Joy: I did think it was Peter, but I didn't think Peter was the one making the phone calls.
1:00:46
Evan: But then you see the phone call, hear the phone, like the phone ringing as the
1:00:50
Evan: credits are rolling is so creepy.
1:00:52
Bill and Joy: I still think Peter was the killer because you're going to blame your girlfriend's
1:01:00
Bill and Joy: girls, right? Time on, time on her tradition.
1:01:03
Bill and Joy: Said sarcastically. I do think
1:01:06
Bill and Joy: that he was the killer. Although it doesn't explain Claire or Mrs. Mac.
1:01:11
Bill: He's not the killer. I'm sorry, Joy. He's 100% not the killer.
1:01:18
Bill: He's a terrible person. he's a terrible person but he's not that doesn't.
1:01:24
Bill and Joy: Make him a killer makes him a piece of shit it would make me happy yeah.
1:01:28
Evan: Like and that's also.
1:01:29
Bill: What makes the that's the fact that he's not i'm not being fair the fact that
1:01:33
Bill: he's not the killer i feel like actually lends credence like everything because first of all it's it.
1:01:39
Bill and Joy: Gives us an opportunity to shit on the cops again.
1:01:41
Bill: Well yes but also like it's the fact that like you don't have to be,
1:01:48
Bill: in this society of like misogyny, like the very fact that he behaves in that
1:01:55
Bill: way is what makes her ultimately more unsafe.
1:02:00
Bill: He is contributing to the deaths of those girls through his behavior because,
1:02:08
Bill: he makes an, you know, broader out from that, that behavior at large makes everyone unsafe.
1:02:16
Bill: Like he is indicative of a systemic problem.
1:02:20
Bill: He is definitely like a bad guy.
1:02:24
Bill: he's not the actual killer and like we know that because of like his location at times.
1:02:30
Evan: And she also says that well i mean the way out they try to imply too that he
1:02:34
Evan: could be the killer but isn't the person making the phone calls right because
1:02:37
Evan: he's there during one of the phone calls yes.
1:02:40
Bill and Joy: Yeah that's why i said maybe he's not the person making the phone calls but
1:02:44
Bill and Joy: he could be a little bit of two-man action but no bill's right i will i will see.
1:02:49
Evan: I just i movies horror movies
1:02:52
Evan: where they don't catch the killer i think are always just that much
1:02:55
Evan: creepier because i mean i guess it's a little different today like oh yeah they're
1:02:59
Evan: going to make 17 more sequels because they didn't you know catch the killer
1:03:01
Evan: but at the time i don't think that people didn't think that way just like oh
1:03:05
Evan: man this guy who's creeping in a basement he's just going to go to a different
1:03:08
Evan: or attic he's going to go to a different attic and you know kill a bunch of
1:03:11
Evan: more people and he's clearly very strong that was.
1:03:15
Bill and Joy: I feel like that's part of the appeal of the movie even now is because
1:03:18
Bill and Joy: like you have to use your imagination it's a movie
1:03:20
Bill and Joy: that you watch with your friends and then you sit there and you talk and you think
1:03:23
Bill and Joy: about it it's a conversation starter right there's so
1:03:26
Bill and Joy: obviously there's so much to talk about in this movie past critiques
1:03:29
Bill and Joy: I mean we were talking about who we think it was and all this stuff like I feel
1:03:34
Bill and Joy: as if the whole sequels thing sequel on sequel on sequel until you finally catch
1:03:38
Bill and Joy: the killer right it's it's not it doesn't contribute anything you're just waiting
1:03:43
Bill and Joy: for the sequel to come out and then going on TikTok and being like I really
1:03:46
Bill and Joy: hope they cast this person yeah.
1:03:48
Evan: I think that's why it's so great that Bob clark was like i would never make
1:03:52
Evan: a sequel to this and then you know he gives the idea and then it becomes spawns
1:03:56
Evan: a film that creates like 13 movies and not all by john carpenter obviously but
1:04:00
Evan: you know yeah a franchise that just,
1:04:05
Evan: may have ended we'll see.
1:04:06
Bill and Joy: Just because like um we haven't talked about it yet but the scene where the
1:04:11
Bill and Joy: one of the one of the guys gets shot in the butt with a birdshot by the farmer,
1:04:18
Bill and Joy: like i don't and the farmer's like i don't care if it's a church party i don't
1:04:21
Bill and Joy: care if he's a cop i'm gonna shove
1:04:23
Bill and Joy: it in sideways if i need to don't be trespassing on my land i'll shove.
1:04:28
Bill: It in sideways.
1:04:30
Bill and Joy: That whole.
1:04:31
Bill: Thing was great.
1:04:32
Bill and Joy: And it was such a it's such a ran and it
1:04:35
Bill and Joy: shouldn't be in the movie but it and it doesn't necessarily add
1:04:38
Bill and Joy: to the movie but it adds to the movie because it's like a weird like
1:04:41
Bill and Joy: shock giggle that you get and also the fact that they like totally it lightened
1:04:46
Bill and Joy: the mood for everybody at the police station because obviously the lieutenant
1:04:51
Bill and Joy: is like not freaking out but definitely like you know furring his brow like
1:04:55
Bill and Joy: okay what is going on here when they're talking about it and then here comes
1:04:59
Bill and Joy: this guy with birdshot in his ass and it's like alright,
1:05:01
Bill and Joy: this is hilarious okay but then you get into like that like,
1:05:07
Bill and Joy: the climax of the film is like oh shit like
1:05:10
Bill and Joy: it takes you by surprise I wonder if they did that on purpose or if they were
1:05:13
Bill and Joy: just trying to get that laugh or if they wanted to find a way to like work that
1:05:18
Bill and Joy: laugh in at such a pivotal moment you know what I mean to like really catch
1:05:22
Bill and Joy: you by surprise and add to that like what you're feeling whenever you watch
1:05:26
Bill and Joy: Jess of just like the anxiety of it all.
1:05:29
Bill: Yeah. She is a bundle of nerves.
1:05:33
Bill: I mean, except when she isn't like when she, which is, which is actually,
1:05:37
Bill: I feel like a real like point for like the, like the feminist notion of the
1:05:43
Bill: movie, like to go back long ago to, we talked about the abortion.
1:05:48
Bill: That is like such, it's like not the plot of the movie, but it's so important.
1:05:55
Bill: And it's such like an important thing for the time because like when she sits
1:06:01
Bill: down to talk to Peter about that. She is sure of herself.
1:06:04
Bill: She knows her decision. She is not quivering.
1:06:08
Bill: She's not quivering. She's not wavering. She knows what she wants.
1:06:11
Bill: And not only that, they don't make the argument for like why they don't stick
1:06:18
Bill: around. They don't, they don't cop out.
1:06:21
Bill: She says, I don't want a kid because I have hopes and dreams.
1:06:26
Bill: Not like we don't have the money or we're not married or blah blah blah no i
1:06:32
Bill: want to travel i want to learn things i want to do things that's what she says.
1:06:38
Bill and Joy: And it's a totally fucking valid point to
1:06:42
Bill and Joy: make 100 and as somebody who was
1:06:44
Bill and Joy: wasting his time at a music conservatory when he wasn't terrible okay should
1:06:51
Bill and Joy: understand that and totally disregards everything that he just told her and
1:06:56
Bill and Joy: i don't i correct me if him wrong he never once actually tells her like i love
1:07:00
Bill and Joy: you i want to be no he does he says i love.
1:07:03
Bill: You to her over the phone and she goes i know.
1:07:07
Bill and Joy: It's so great,
1:07:10
Bill and Joy: It's great when somebody else does it, but when I do it to you,
1:07:12
Bill and Joy: you get mad. That's rude and inconsiderate.
1:07:16
Bill: Straight up busted out laughing when she did that.
1:07:20
Bill and Joy: Oh, God. But even then, though, it doesn't feel – you're jogging my memory now.
1:07:26
Bill and Joy: It didn't feel like he was – he said it in a pleading way.
1:07:29
Bill: Oh, yeah, no.
1:07:30
Bill and Joy: Not in an honest way. That was totally toxic.
1:07:33
Evan: I love you.
1:07:35
Bill: Absolutely. That was not a genuine I love you.
1:07:37
Bill and Joy: But and it's but it
1:07:40
Bill and Joy: does tie in very well with the whole like she's
1:07:44
Bill and Joy: anxious until she's not yeah and speaking
1:07:47
Bill and Joy: to the you know these are humans these are mature adults these
1:07:49
Bill and Joy: are not goofballs who are getting themselves killed you know
1:07:52
Bill and Joy: what i mean and i really like the way in
1:07:55
Bill and Joy: the end whenever she takes that fire poker to her mans
1:07:58
Bill and Joy: you know uh because honestly and
1:08:02
Bill and Joy: no because it's a valid thing because i'm sure there
1:08:05
Bill and Joy: are people watching that movie it's like well she could see it was him and like
1:08:08
Bill and Joy: blah blah whatever and all this it couldn't be him and she knows that it's like
1:08:12
Bill and Joy: okay fight or flight yeah you don't know what you would do you don't know she
1:08:18
Bill and Joy: could have had a if one thing would have been different maybe she would have
1:08:21
Bill and Joy: had a different response,
1:08:23
Bill and Joy: but let's look at the facts here right not to mention he also like he threatened
1:08:28
Bill and Joy: her he threatened her hard over the phone is was it over the phone he called her yeah.
1:08:33
Bill: It was over the phone yeah.
1:08:34
Bill and Joy: Yeah yeah over the phone as well which is already like something that is so
1:08:37
Bill and Joy: stress inducing for what she's been dealing with yeah dude it's weird.
1:08:41
Evan: He's like breaking he's like breaking the glass down there too like in the basement like he's he's.
1:08:46
Bill and Joy: Acting super aggressive i feel as if they if we were gonna say that this movie
1:08:51
Bill and Joy: like seeing it from like you know a political standpoint or not even a political
1:08:56
Bill and Joy: standpoint but just a standpoint as a female of a dude but i was dating decided
1:09:00
Bill and Joy: that he first of all we just had a huge fight he's not listening to me,
1:09:03
Bill and Joy: I'm already trying to break up with him and he breaks a fucking window.
1:09:06
Bill and Joy: Hell yeah. I'm swinging. That's not safe.
1:09:08
Bill: Yeah.
1:09:09
Bill and Joy: That is somebody who's not thinking correctly. Yeah.
1:09:11
Bill and Joy: you know what i mean.
1:09:12
Evan: Yeah like.
1:09:13
Bill and Joy: I don't find i didn't find her actions to be manic whatsoever.
1:09:16
Evan: No like there's like the question at the end like oh like the i think the press
1:09:19
Evan: is like you know is she gonna be charged or like is she gonna be at fault and like no self-defense.
1:09:23
Bill: Yeah heck.
1:09:25
Evan: No she's good.
1:09:26
Bill: She's good can.
1:09:27
Bill and Joy: You tell i really like this movie yeah.
1:09:30
Evan: It's one of.
1:09:30
Bill: Yeah it's good i really again like
1:09:33
Bill: you know this isn't the kind of movie like i'm gonna like revisit but
1:09:37
Bill: it is like from a
1:09:40
Bill: like a like a movie enjoy like you know a person
1:09:43
Bill: who enjoys movies and like history and like edison as a former english major
1:09:47
Bill: dropout um there's just so much to this movie and it's like you can really see
1:09:53
Bill: like the seeds of things and it's it's an interesting it's a fascinating like
1:09:58
Bill: just like intellectual like piece to like watch nah.
1:10:01
Bill and Joy: I absolutely agree that's how i really felt about it it was like yeah i don't
1:10:05
Bill and Joy: know if i'm gonna re-watch this a whole lot but watching it And like knowing
1:10:09
Bill and Joy: that, oh, it was like the impetus and like the inspiration for a lot of things.
1:10:14
Bill and Joy: But seeing how like markedly distinct it is compared to the rest of the genre,
1:10:19
Bill and Joy: just fascinating. It was incredible.
1:10:21
Evan: I, on the other hand, watch this movie like once a year or so.
1:10:25
Bill and Joy: This might mean to go into the christmas rotation i can make it happen like
1:10:29
Bill and Joy: yeah but what still pisses me off is you could see her from that.
1:10:32
Evan: Window,
1:10:35
Evan: this is one i'll like leave one final fact is the person
1:10:38
Evan: who plays uh claire she's
1:10:41
Evan: the one who dies first during her interview or
1:10:44
Evan: during her like when she was interviewing for the role she said
1:10:47
Evan: that part of her past was being a swimmer and that
1:10:50
Evan: she could hold her breath for a really long time so that led
1:10:53
Evan: her to be able to do the stunt with her with the
1:10:56
Evan: bag over her head because she could actually hold her breath all the time and
1:10:59
Evan: the scene where she's in the rocking chair with like the bags over
1:11:02
Evan: her head bob clark is actually making the rocking
1:11:05
Evan: chair move with his foot while while they're filming it
1:11:07
Evan: and they throw the cat on her several times to try and get the cat like doing
1:11:11
Evan: the perfect shot they just throw the cat on her like maybe it'll do it do it
1:11:16
Evan: where you know do a good job it's not the cat from uh girl who walks alone at
1:11:20
Evan: night but you know no it's not Not the Marlon Brando of cats.
1:11:25
Bill and Joy: But he was a beautiful cat.
1:11:27
Bill: Very beautiful cat.
1:11:29
Bill and Joy: That's incredible that she could hold her breath for so long.
1:11:32
Bill and Joy: Because honestly, I thought I was like, maybe they got like a stand-in.
1:11:36
Evan: She wanted to do the stunt herself.
1:11:40
Bill and Joy: Because I'm not going to lie, she's sitting in that rocking chair.
1:11:44
Bill and Joy: I stared at that fucking bag looking for it to move.
1:11:47
Bill and Joy: I was like, is that a person in there? Is that a person in there?
1:11:49
Bill: I was like.
1:11:52
Evan: She was good at holding her She was also good at not blinking,
1:11:58
Evan: being able to just be still So those are all her shots That's creepy.
1:12:03
Bill and Joy: I love that You know what?
1:12:05
Evan: When she goes to horror conventions she brings the bag out when people don't
1:12:10
Evan: recognize her Oh my god It's a little bit over the top.
1:12:16
Bill and Joy: That's amazing It's better than the CGI shit we have to deal with now out.
1:12:22
Bill and Joy: The third Terrifier movie, all the gore was basically CGI. It was terrible.
1:12:27
Evan: You're saying, though, I have to watch the two, the new ones,
1:12:30
Evan: but in order? Do you have to watch them as?
1:12:32
Bill and Joy: I haven't seen the one from, what was it? 2019. 2006.
1:12:36
Evan: Oh, 2006.
1:12:36
Bill and Joy: No, I didn't watch the 2006 one. Interesting.
1:12:41
Bill and Joy: But watch this one and then watch the 2019 one. If I remember correctly,
1:12:44
Bill and Joy: you're going to really appreciate the 2019 one a lot.
1:12:46
Evan: I'm a sequel hater, so I'll.
1:12:50
Bill and Joy: It's not really a sequel. Well, it's a bow. It's a bow to the original.
1:12:55
Evan: Okay.
1:12:57
Bill and Joy: In a remake.
1:12:58
Bill: I downloaded the 2019 one, but I have not watched it.
1:13:01
Evan: That makes my job a lot easier.
1:13:03
Bill: I thought you were talking about the Terrifier first, and I was like...
1:13:06
Evan: No, no, no. I've seen all the Terrifiers, but...
1:13:09
Bill and Joy: Good for you, bud. Bless you.
1:13:11
Bill: Yeah, I watched the first one, and I was like, I hated everything about this.
1:13:16
Bill: I'm like, I'm never going to... I don't want to watch this. And I watched The
1:13:19
Bill: Sadness, and I was like, that's a good movie.
1:13:22
Bill: And I watched The Terrifier, and I watched The Terrifier, and I was like,
1:13:25
Bill: this is trash and i fucking hate this.
1:13:27
Bill and Joy: Because the gore adds to the story okay the story yeah.
1:13:35
Evan: Have you seen audition any of you.
1:13:37
Bill and Joy: No i'd recommend that no japanese horror movie really good any.
1:13:42
Evan: Last uh christmas uh thoughts for this christmas season.
1:13:47
Bill and Joy: What was the what was the house lady's name miss mack or whatever miss mack
1:13:52
Bill and Joy: miss mack yeah i i liked how she hid all her booze,
1:13:56
Bill and Joy: in very ingenious ways i had love for miss mack honestly i would love a movie
1:14:01
Bill and Joy: about miss mack's life how do you go from momville to like sorority mom here's.
1:14:06
Bill: The thing the way she hid the booze she hid it as if like she wasn't supposed
1:14:11
Bill: to have it and they were drinking like they had.
1:14:15
Bill and Joy: Booze in the house.
1:14:16
Bill: Maybe she's not supposed to do it.
1:14:18
Bill and Joy: You can assume that in order for her employment, right? She's supposed to be the model.
1:14:24
Bill: Did she think the girls were going to tell on her? Come on.
1:14:29
Evan: It's fair, but I think the idea is she's supposed to be the sober one, but she like...
1:14:34
Bill and Joy: They should see her as an adult figure who they respect and all that.
1:14:37
Bill and Joy: See, I couldn't figure it out either, so I immediately rewrote the headcanon for me.
1:14:44
Bill and Joy: It's fine that she drinks, but those are her own special stash bottles.
1:14:49
Bill and Joy: They're all the same bottles.
1:14:51
Bill: They are.
1:14:52
Bill and Joy: It's like she doesn't want to share that with the girl. I'm not a fan of Sherry,
1:14:56
Bill and Joy: but I kept making you want to try it. Like that specific Sherry.
1:14:58
Bill: Which is also, like, that to me is, like, wild. Just the idea of,
1:15:02
Bill: like, that's the side of an alcoholic.
1:15:05
Bill: Like, you're just drinking straight hard liquor straight from the bottle.
1:15:09
Bill: Like, not even, like, expensive bourbon. Just sherry.
1:15:14
Bill and Joy: Look, we've all been there, but...
1:15:17
Bill and Joy: There's been times.
1:15:17
Bill: Like that was wild to me. I'm like, she's just, she's just pulling bottles of
1:15:22
Bill: sugar from the toilet tank. That's fucking wild.
1:15:25
Bill and Joy: Oh, this string tied to it. So for easy retrieval, it's so beautiful.
1:15:30
Bill: Oh man.
1:15:31
Bill and Joy: I was taking notes.
1:15:35
Bill and Joy: Evan, what are your final thoughts for black?
1:15:37
Evan: I mean, I don't know if I have any, I mean, I guess I feel like everything I've
1:15:40
Evan: said, I mean, I think it's just a,
1:15:42
Evan: I've come to now not think of it as a slasher movie,
1:15:45
Evan: even though like in my head canon it is because it influenced
1:15:49
Evan: slasher movies so by definition it has to be one
1:15:52
Evan: but i guess you're right that it could just be thriller you
1:15:55
Evan: know psychological thriller more in
1:15:58
Evan: the vein of psycho than the things that came after especially given the fact
1:16:03
Evan: that it sort of it wasn't anything it was just a horror movie you know you could
1:16:07
Evan: just call whatever it is and i don't know this is like in my this is in my top
1:16:10
Evan: two or three if i want to broadly call like slasher movies if you're going to
1:16:16
Evan: call it one like this is in my top.
1:16:17
Bill and Joy: It's a good place for it.
1:16:19
Evan: Halloween and then my torso for me.
1:16:21
Bill: I can see that I think it's a you know it's an interesting movie it's a really
1:16:27
Bill: good movie you know from like a an analysis point of view.
1:16:33
Evan: Yeah.
1:16:35
Bill and Joy: This one was a lot easier than Friday the 13th was.
1:16:39
Evan: Yeah. I mean, it's a much better movie. I mean, it's not even.
1:16:42
Bill: But Bill Maher isn't in it.
1:16:46
Bill and Joy: All right. All right.
1:16:48
Evan: Bill Maher is canceled, although he's not actually canceled.
1:16:52
Bill: God, he should be. Why is he not canceled? Why is he still on TV?
1:16:57
Bill: Because cancel culture doesn't exist.
1:16:59
Bill: He's so bad.
1:17:01
Bill and Joy: I mean, so is Nick Cage. And look at him.
1:17:04
Bill: But Nick Cage isn't a bad person or obviously like an active like fed op.
1:17:11
Bill and Joy: Okay, that's fair. I thought we were talking purely on acting skills.
1:17:15
Evan: I love Nick Cage.
1:17:16
Bill: No, no.
1:17:18
Bill and Joy: Really?
1:17:19
Bill: I'm talking about as a human being.
1:17:21
Evan: I also like Nick Cage.
1:17:25
Bill and Joy: I had a friend. And they would defend Nick Cage because that,
1:17:31
Bill and Joy: I guess, old Nicky boy practices a very specific acting style.
1:17:36
Bill and Joy: And it's basically like, it's some Japanese acting style that is just supposed
1:17:39
Bill and Joy: to be over the top and insane. I'm like, that's good.
1:17:44
Bill and Joy: Maybe he could branch out a little bit.
1:17:45
Evan: You should watch Bad Lieutenant. It's a great movie.
1:17:47
Bill and Joy: Oh, God.
1:17:48
Bill: Well, see, the thing is.
1:17:49
Bill and Joy: Oh, I'll take your word for it.
1:17:50
Evan: Nick Cage.
1:17:50
Bill: The thing is that Nick Cage is either. Nick Cage can be either terrible.
1:17:55
Bill: Terrible, like, C-movie-level shit acting, or really good.
1:18:01
Bill and Joy: Con Air. Yeah. Do you think Las Vegas?
1:18:04
Bill: Yeah. He's either Adaptation Pig or Con Air.
1:18:12
Bill and Joy: You want to know something really messed up as I'm talking shit about Nick Cage?
1:18:17
Bill and Joy: Con Air is my favorite bad movie of all time. It's a fun bad movie.
1:18:21
Bill: It is.
1:18:23
Evan: I mean, I think in some ways, probably it's also like the roles he's taking.
1:18:27
Evan: I mean, he's taken just some bad roles, you know, like movies that just,
1:18:31
Evan: I don't know who, you know, it just is a shitty role.
1:18:35
Evan: Yeah, he's been in some badass bad movies. what's the one where he's like the
1:18:40
Evan: biker Knight Rider or whatever Ghost Rider that is fucking horrible he's.
1:18:47
Bill and Joy: The biker he was the best actor in.
1:18:49
Evan: That whole movie that's not saying a lot yeah.
1:18:50
Bill and Joy: We're just saying something Ghost Rider and that's because Eva Mendes was in it and I love her.
1:18:56
Evan: Yeah okay.
1:18:57
Bill: But she's not bringing acting chops generally that's not what she's bringing to the.
1:19:02
Evan: Screen well we'll have to we'll cover every we'll do it we'll do a series on
1:19:06
Evan: every nick cage movie we'll be here until uh the next millennium we'd.
1:19:10
Bill: Be fucking yeah seriously.
1:19:11
Bill and Joy: That is we just turned this into a nick cage.
1:19:14
Evan: You know what's funny is i was actually talking to someone that's torture i would do it.
1:19:18
Bill and Joy: A marx's nick's cage.
1:19:20
Evan: The problem the problem with doing i think we talked about like if you did like
1:19:23
Evan: an x-files podcast the problem with those kinds of shows is you just get so
1:19:27
Evan: sick of the thing you're doing after a long time even if it's interesting you
1:19:32
Evan: know it's like you're stuck on that forever we had a gareth edwards series but
1:19:36
Evan: there's only like six of them and you can do them slowly yeah.
1:19:38
Bill: Or you end up like the guy that does i hate bill maher which is he's just gonna go crazy.
1:19:44
Evan: Yeah yeah.
1:19:44
Bill and Joy: You gotta end up on a.
1:19:45
Evan: List yeah.
1:19:46
Bill: That's gonna go insane.
1:19:47
Evan: Yeah i don't know i i can't watch bill maher for more than 12 seconds i can't
1:19:51
Evan: believe he just watches him for his like his podcast my heart goes out to him.
1:19:56
Bill and Joy: It's like ward and his tiktok algorithm them.
1:19:59
Bill and Joy: Oh, my goodness. It gets stuck in a loop and just like the most random things.
1:20:04
Bill and Joy: I'll hear the same song play for like 30 minutes.
1:20:08
Bill and Joy: And it's all different TikToks, but it's the same song. Yeah, it's all that trend.
1:20:14
Bill: It's all that trend shit.
1:20:17
Evan: Oh, awesome. Well, Joy, thank you for joining us this.
1:20:22
Bill and Joy: Thank you for having me and letting me share my opinions. I have so many.
1:20:26
Evan: Anytime.
1:20:27
Bill and Joy: It was great having you.
1:20:28
Evan: And bill and ward that was.
1:20:30
Bill: A shout.
1:20:30
Bill and Joy: Out to it.
1:20:31
Bill: And ward ward uh how how do you and you you enjoy you just you're strangers
1:20:36
Bill: to each other correct absolute.
1:20:39
Bill and Joy: Strangers on the same microphone no we're married 11 years 10 years married 11 years together.
1:20:45
Bill: It just reminds me of our our you know our competition how did this get made
1:20:49
Bill: and how um uh june and paul every every episode open up oh and uh how are you
1:20:55
Bill: june i'm doing very well paul thank you as if they've never met before and don't know each other it's.
1:20:59
Bill and Joy: Beautiful i love that.
1:21:00
Evan: Amazing well uh you've all been listening to left injector with myself and bill
1:21:05
Evan: and ward and we'll catch you next time.
1:21:07
Bill: Also joy oh yeah joy have a good night everybody see you next time i'm.
1:21:12
Bill and Joy: Not important good night.