Latest / Identity at the Center / #238 - Oktane, Identity Week, and Navigate Thoughts & Authenticate Preview

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#238 - Oktane, Identity Week, and Navigate Thoughts & Authenticate Preview · Identity at the Center

0:05
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
0:11
AM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
0:17
Jeff Steadman. Welcome to the Identity at the
0:23
Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
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Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you?
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Oh, not so bad yourself. Doing pretty good, man.
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I feel like I've been the road warrior.
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I really haven't traveled between June and about a week
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ago, but now it's two weeks in a row, about to be 3 weeks in a
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row. We're doing Authenticate
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conference on Monday. I'm sitting here in a hotel,
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airport or airport Hotel in Calgary, Canada.
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Had a great week here. It's a beautiful country,
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beautiful people. Everyone's been like.
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So friendly, which I mean, I don't even want to say that in
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the United States people are just friendly that would that's
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not. Canadians are famous for their
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friendliness, I think. I think that's kind of a known
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thing. It's definitely.
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It's definitely how I felt since I've been here.
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That's that's got some truth to it.
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But yeah, living out of the suitcases is not all glamour.
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Three whole weeks. That's rookie numbers, baby.
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I'm on like. Week 7 about to be 8 and going
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on to like 12. Yeah, So what I'm doing is
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though contiguous weeks like including the weekend.
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So I left on the 1st, I'll get home on the 19th And what I
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think is here's the way I was looking at it, like I finish up.
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So I was here in Canada working on a workshop.
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It ended yesterday and. So I had the choice to, you
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know, fly out tomorrow morning, go back to Atlanta and then have
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to go out to San Diego on Sunday.
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So basically have just like one full day at home or just go to
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San Diego early and get there, go to the pool and hopefully
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they've got like a tiki bar that makes pina coladas that you know
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will keep me happy. I think he chose wisely.
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I I had to come home because I literally had to just restock my
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entire suitcase. I've been gone all week as well,
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Sunday through Friday. So today is October 13th.
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It's 11:00 PM Eastern Time. This is how you and I roll
2:35
trying to get something out for next Monday, which would be
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what, the 14th, 15th, 16th first day of authenticate.
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This, this show is actually going to compete with us because
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we'll be in the probably in the middle of a keynote doing a live
2:48
show at Authenticate. But I had to come home.
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I needed a day to, like, reload my suitcase for yet another full
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week of travel. See my dogs.
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My wife's out of time. She's traveling.
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So, like, coordinating, she drove to the airport, left my
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car there. I got home a couple hours ago,
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picked up the car, went home and then I'm going to come back
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early Sunday morning. Drop my car off there and then
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she's gonna pick up the car on Monday on the way back.
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So we're doing this. Whole shuffle game when you get
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home The dogs who bonkers right? Two of them did.
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The third one acknowledged my existence.
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Definitely my wife's dog, our newest puppy.
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He was happy. I let him out of his crate and
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then it was like, immediately gashed around the house looking
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to see where mom was, and I was very disappointed that it was
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just me. But the other two were happy to
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see me. Yeah, I know.
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I mean, like if if your dogs aren't happy to see you after
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you've been gone for a week, then you're not a good person.
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That's true. Dogs are the best people.
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I'm a big dog fan. I think people who have dogs
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know it and get it. It's like they're always happy
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to see you when you come home. Yeah, no, I mean, I love dogs.
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And the only reason I don't have a dog is because, I mean, I
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travel not nearly as much as you, Jeff, but don't have
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anybody at home who I could, you know?
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Count on taking care of a dog and cleaning up after the dog
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and feeding the dog. So yeah, I mean, checking a dog
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into a kennel every week is not not very fair.
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Yeah, that's not cool. Yeah, we don't do that either.
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So I get it. I totally get it.
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So I've been busy. I mean, you know, not this week,
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but last week was the Octane conference in San Francisco.
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How was? Well, well, first let me just
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comment San Francisco. I love San Francisco.
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I've been the biggest San Francisco fan for a long time.
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And, you know, I think that there's been some things over
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the years that, you know, have kind of put certain parts of it
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in decline. Let's talk about the Moscone
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Center. And they've really done a lot
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to, you know, kind of have a police presence.
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So for me anyway, I felt very safe, you know, walking around
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that area and walking from the hotel and to the center, so.
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Drastic improvement, I think, even from last year.
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But the the most remarkable thing was it was 90 degrees in
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the city of San Francisco in October.
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I don't think I've ever been in San Francisco and it was 90
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degrees before. And I've.
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Been there a lot of times. Especially for being on the Bay,
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it's generally a little bit cooler compared to the rest,
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which is why I like it so much. Yeah, they have those
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microclimates out there. But so like in the East Bay,
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Oakland, it could be 9095 degrees and the downtown San
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Francisco could be 55 degrees. Or on the Bay could be like, you
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know, freezing and windy. It was not windy and it was
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definitely not cold. And so I was expecting to have
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to. Wear a jacket.
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But you know, as I was walking around the jacket, I was like
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breaking in a sweat. Yeah, that's that's not my gym.
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I'm glad I was in DC that week. It was hot there.
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But I don't know, I was inside pretty much the entire time at a
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Convention Center doing stuff like that.
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So you were at Octane. I was at Identity Week America.
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Sounds like we both had a good time.
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I know I had a good time. We recorded a couple episodes,
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actually recorded three episodes while I was out there.
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I just had time. I mean, you know, First off,
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like the energy level at Octane was off the charts.
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And so I had an opportunity to sit with a lot of folks and
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record, you know, interviews. I'm going to get this uploaded.
6:35
You're going to piece them all together into some kind of I'm?
6:38
Going to try to, I'm curious to see what you actually did.
6:40
You sent me a text with someone with kind of one of the
6:43
interviews and say, all right, this is not actually too bad, so
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we'll see what the final product turns out.
6:49
My expectation is that was the worst of of the bunch because
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it's kind of figuring out more as I was going along so.
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I heard you got Daniel on camera too.
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I did get Daniel. We've been trying to get Daniel
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on the show. He's he's our boss and he's been
7:03
elusive. He did a really good job.
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Yeah, he's great. I.
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You know, the one thing that he did was so I had these lavalier
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microphones and he. You know, it's like he was
7:15
leaving to go to the airport and he like, he had my lavalier mic
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on and I didn't realize it until like 2-3 minutes later and I got
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my next guest coming in a few minutes.
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I'm like, Oh my God. And I'm like texting him.
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He's not answering that. I try and call him because the
7:30
voicemail I'm like, what am I going to do?
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I'm like basically going to have to take my my one room meeting
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lavalier mic and pass it back and forth.
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Fortunately, they call me back and.
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Brought back the the microphone. So it all worked out.
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But you know the conference was super high energy.
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You know one of the they had a few big announcements, the
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biggest announcement was kind of like all around bringing a I
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into the product and how it's going to manifest.
8:00
And so one of those was what they're calling ITP, Identity
8:04
Threat Protection, and essentially it's, you know,
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using the A I lever to a I. Leveraging the a I technology to
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you know work with this big data that they're collecting to you
8:18
know recognize patterns. So applying a model to recognize
8:22
patterns, that would be something that would say you
8:25
want to then trigger an action like disable that account.
8:28
Then they've got some other features that rolling out which
8:31
sound less impressive, but when it all plugs together it makes
8:34
sense. Like big enough some route
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single log out. Which I think is a little bit
8:39
proprietary. But if you think about it, it's
8:42
like if you realize like oh, Jeff's account has been
8:47
compromised, maybe someone saw his session cookie and is now,
8:51
you know, log in and trying to do bad things this time maybe he
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clicked on the phishing e-mail, etcetera.
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We can not only disable his account, but close all the
9:00
sessions that are open in other applications.
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And that's a really big deal because.
9:06
You know, I mean, even a client that I'm currently working with,
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I found out that, you know, they leave really long session
9:15
timeouts. And that's one of the the
9:17
biggest forms of, you know, hijacking A person's, you know,
9:24
they're all sitting in their credential, but they get these
9:25
session cookies, they can bypass MFA and get logged in as that
9:30
person. So if that session isn't timed
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out now if you're giving. 30 days, 60 days, 180 days for that
9:37
session to live. I think that's the maximum in in
9:40
Octa anyway. But think about that, someone
9:43
could take that session, that cookie could be that old, they
9:47
could use it to get in. So overall, like really, like
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that was something I think every one of the folk, every one of
9:55
the people there was like really excited about.
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Because when you think about the current capabilities within the
10:01
tool, it's kind of a black box. And you don't know what it's
10:05
doing. This is looks like it's going to
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be much more exposed to the people have some levers and can
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kind of see how it's making the decisions or what decisions are
10:15
being made. Yeah, I think you need to be
10:17
able to tune it somehow. Authentication is kind of a very
10:21
tricky thing, I think, especially when you're trying to
10:23
fingerprint essentially what is a valid authentication session
10:27
versus not valid considering the number of devices and.
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Locations and times of days and things like that.
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So it'll be interesting. I feel a little bit vindicated
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that you said AI at Octa because there was definitely a theme at
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sale point Navigate this week, AI being injected into the sale
10:44
point product as well. I feel like I called this a
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couple months back. I'm sure they were working on it
10:49
before that, but I'm gonna take credit anyway.
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AI seems to be AI. I'm taking credit for all AI,
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good or bad, bring it on. No, I just think that you know
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it's a natural evolution, right of the identity products and
11:02
large language models are sort of the AI Dujuur and they're
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graduating from historically AI being machine machine learning
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or pattern matching and things like that to now you can
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actually talk in quotation marks right type to the AI to ask
11:19
specific questions, generate reports.
11:23
Help with configurations of applications, things like that.
11:27
Microsoft is certainly getting the game with things like
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Copilot, but AI was a big focus as well at the sale point
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Navigate conference, which is where I was all week.
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I think a conference, a vendor specific conference where they
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didn't talk about AI and their product would be a major miss at
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this point. Yeah.
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It's like 0 trust of the last couple of years.
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If your product didn't have zero trust in it, you're pretty much
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done for. Yeah, now it's and now
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everything's a I. So I wonder if this was the same
11:56
thing at South Point, but at at Octa, they kind of laid out
12:00
their road map both on the the customer cloud as well as the
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Workforce cloud. There's a lot of new
12:08
functionality that they're promising.
12:10
I mean really on the, on the workforce side, it's like that
12:14
converged identity. So it's access management which
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they're already kind of like top dog.
12:21
There's IGA privilege access management, cloud infrastructure
12:26
inside of management. It's like the way I see it like
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for them to be successful in that they have two choices.
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One is to go out and buy somebody for each one of those
12:36
things. The other is spend a lot of
12:39
money on R&D. But the last thing, the the
12:43
thing that I want to make sure that like hopefully they don't
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do is they just talk about these things that roll out like.
12:50
Not a very good version of it because I think that would kind
12:54
of stain them the brand because I mean you know you have to, if
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you're going to say we're going to have something, you got to
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have it. Yeah, I think that that
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convergence is another word that came up as well.
13:07
Now we're starting to see the rise of platforms.
13:10
You know, Octa's creating one sale point definitely is
13:12
creating one. This this idea of converged
13:16
identity or? You know, whatever you want to
13:18
call it, unified identity platforms, things like that.
13:21
Kind of brings me back to the old days of Oracle and IBM and
13:26
CA where that was platforms. Then it became best to breed.
13:29
And then guess what? We're back to bell bottoms
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again. You know, I hit back to bell
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bottoms, yet, you know, I don't think those things like Oracle
13:37
CA are deserving of the term platform.
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I think they're sweets. They're just a bunch of products
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that they put under the umbrella.
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And I hope that's not what Octa Cell Point and all these others
13:49
do. I hope they build a platform.
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To me, a platform is something that has some open like an
13:54
openness factor to it, so that entrepreneurs can go out and
14:00
build addons to that platform. And so they create almost like a
14:06
an opportunity like a business model like build your business
14:10
around our platform, make sales forces on that I think some.
14:15
Social media platforms have done that, so.
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Service now. What's that?
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Service now is another one. Service now is exactly, exactly
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to me that's a platform and I think just saying like oh, you
14:28
know, we're going to be a closed platform, I think that almost
14:32
disqualifies you from the term platform.
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Well, good news. Sale point is not going to be a
14:37
closed platform, at least not in the future.
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They did mention sometime in the next couple years allowing.
14:44
People to develop like basically like plugins.
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It's almost like they're creating the browser and they're
14:48
gonna have some sort of browser plugin architecture that lets
14:51
you do different things with the data that's in there.
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Very API heavy meaning which is a good thing.
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I think you can do a lot with the APIs that are out there.
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So it'll be interesting to see kind of what happens with the
15:04
sale point platform, cuz that's to me where they're headed and
15:08
what they were kind of talking about all week.
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Yeah, I think that. You know, again I GA is like a
15:16
great starting point to build an identity platform from because I
15:20
really think that I GA all the kind of like core identity
15:25
technologies truly has its arms around identity or it's the
15:30
closest thing I think when you look at your authentication
15:35
system. They're calling it like, oh,
15:38
it's an identity. It's identity as a service, but
15:41
I think it's almost like accounts as a service.
15:44
Like those are accounts. Like you can have multiple
15:47
accounts for signing on, but you still just have one identity.
15:51
Well, I think I GA is the hardest thing to do in Identity
15:54
to do it well. I mean, like, I think that's the
15:56
one that has the most complexity involved with it and there
16:01
aren't really standards if you think about it from an IGA
16:04
perspective. Yes, there's like common things
16:06
like onboarding and offboarding and access reviews and access
16:09
requests, but other than Skim, there really isn't like a
16:13
standard to do any of that stuff on the authentication side.
16:16
You got Oauth, you got Sam O, you got Open ID Connect, right,
16:19
stuff like that. And it's very it's a very
16:22
specific path. You file Okay, I need to
16:24
authenticate and then once I authenticate then I can get to
16:26
this thing with an authorization.
16:28
I GA throws in a whole bunch of complexities in there,
16:31
especially from a business rules perspective.
16:35
So I feel like if I were to build an identity product, I
16:38
would start with IGA, lock that down, and then try to expand
16:43
from there. Problem with that approach ends
16:45
up being, well, everybody's already solved the
16:47
authentication problem. So now, yeah, is it easier to
16:50
get in from a sales perspective if I'm trying to sell this
16:53
product, if everyone's already using a different authentication
16:56
platform and trying to migrate people off of that?
16:58
I don't have the answer. But it used to be interesting to
17:03
see how octo and sale point have gone different directions with
17:05
it, or approach to say from different directions.
17:09
How did you used to think of Active Directory not talking
17:12
Azure Active Directory? Did you think of it as Identity
17:16
system or as like I had one coworker in the past who used to
17:24
call it. He's like it's just a network
17:25
operating system and we saw that's a bit more than just a
17:28
network operating system. It's also an authentication
17:32
system, but they don't think those are.
17:35
It's an identity system, yeah. And I kind of look at Azure AD
17:39
and I'm like, OK, so a lot of similarity from that
17:42
perspective. It's, is it really tracking the
17:45
identity? But now there's the, you know,
17:47
they're starting to expand into or you're pulling it from the HR
17:50
system. But are they correlating all the
17:54
accounts to that identity? Because ultimately it's like.
17:58
Right. When Jeff separates from the
18:00
organization or he shutting off all the accounts that he has
18:04
access to, that's really what it comes down to.
18:08
I used to, I mean, for me a D and the role that I've had when
18:12
I've been around AD. Closest was it was
18:15
authentication and authorization.
18:17
That was pretty much it. Yes, backbone for other things
18:20
within Windows Server. But for me as an identity
18:24
person, it's authentication and it's authorization.
18:28
I think that I feel the same way.
18:30
I think that tactically speaking, though, the folks who
18:35
run a D in organizations have wound up becoming so central to
18:42
how identity is handled within the organization, said.
18:47
This is the tool that I know I love and it's our identity
18:51
system and we're going to plug. Azure AD on top of it, which I
18:56
guess is not even the the current term for it and and
18:59
that's what we do for identity. But we don't need an IGA.
19:02
We don't need any external third party systems.
19:07
We don't need. I don't know if.
19:08
Access Management because Azure gives us from which Access
19:12
management. Well, I to to some degree, I
19:15
think it's, you know if we start talking about now we're back to
19:18
platforms, right? Microsoft has their own platform
19:20
too, and. It's good at Microsoft things,
19:24
but once you get outside of Microsoft things, it's not so
19:27
great with the exception of authentication.
19:30
They've definitely embraced standards like Oauth and Open ID
19:34
Connect and so forth right to do authentication, but I'm not
19:38
going to do ASAP Access review with Microsoft Ventra.
19:43
That would be crazy. But they're so good at
19:45
marketing, it sounds like almost like you could and you should.
19:50
That's interesting, you bring up that.
19:51
SAP Access reviews, because I was working with the client this
19:56
week to develop an IGA strategy and so of course they are in the
20:03
throes of deploying SAP for HR and for their ERP.
20:11
That should be a Big Bang. And you know, fortunately, from
20:14
my perspective, you know. Their IGA roadmap really won't,
20:19
or their IGA platform won't go in until after that ERP is in
20:24
place and should have time to be settled.
20:27
But as always, you're kind of faced with the question of Okay,
20:32
do we need to do GRC? And then the question is can GRC
20:37
or SAP Identity Manager do everything?
20:41
And that could be our IGA or reverse it, can we have some IGA
20:48
and manage all the the rules and everything down to the
20:53
entitlement level and do access reviews and access provisioning
21:01
from the I, J to SAPI mean there's the philosophically, can
21:06
it be done is one question. But I think more importantly,
21:10
it's like, do you want to do that?
21:12
And I feel like, you know, for that latter 1 answers, heck no.
21:16
I also think it's techno for do you want to take the SAP piece
21:20
to try and make that your enterprise IGA?
21:23
Just my experience with seeing this one, I'm a little dated.
21:27
I know some of the tools have come a little bit further, but
21:30
you know, there's no way that they have caught up with some of
21:33
the major IGA platforms out there.
21:37
Yeah, SAP still gives me nightmares.
21:39
I used to have to manage that from an identity perspective.
21:42
Not a fan, but yeah. We've run into this question a
21:46
lot with us As for whatever reason, between SAP and between
21:50
every other IGA platform. If an organization has SAP, they
21:54
probably have SAP GRC and it's really good at that specific
21:59
task. And it gets less good the
22:02
further you go away from that task, do some basic things, you
22:05
know, Windows, Active Directory, that's kind of a No brainer.
22:08
Everybody can do. Active Directory, that's not.
22:10
Hard. But is the interface up to
22:14
snuff? You know, does they have all the
22:15
business rules and logic that you want to be able to configure
22:18
in it versus customization? And I feel like This is why IGA
22:21
is so hard is because it's hard to have A1 size fits all
22:25
especially when you start dealing with apps like SAP or
22:30
Dynamics or Oracle or any other you know large ERP type type
22:36
implementation. I've been, I've been in IT for
22:40
like roughly 25 years and when I've seen failures happen in IT,
22:47
it's been ERP deployments, it's been I M deployments and maybe
22:53
CRM but CRM is, is mostly they didn't do a good job with the
22:57
data. So put that up to the side
22:59
you're talking about ERP and I M like that's where the big
23:02
failures happen. Here's my feeling for my advice
23:06
for I am practitioners out there.
23:09
If an ERP platform is being replaced or being launched, like
23:14
don't set yourself up to be. The reason that it fails is
23:19
this. Projects are pretty damn
23:20
expensive. The reason I am projects usually
23:23
fail is the same thing. They get tied into too many
23:26
business critical applications and then for whatever reason
23:30
they don't operate in those business critical applications.
23:34
Can't do their job because of your I M system.
23:38
Don't let that happen. Don't be that person.
23:42
Yeah, don't be that guy. Don't be that guy.
23:46
So we got another conference we're going to in a couple days
23:48
authenticate. I feel like this is everybody
23:50
decided. Apparently October was
23:52
conference month. Between Octane Identity Week
23:55
America sale point Navigate I think I'm sure there was
23:57
probably a Gartner thing that took place and now you and I are
24:00
headed to. Sanford.
24:02
No. San Diego?
24:03
I don't know where I'm going to Carlsbad.
24:05
Just north of the city of San Diego to do a few things that
24:09
authenticate, we're going to do a keynote live show, which I'm a
24:13
little nervous about. We haven't done anything like
24:15
that before. Here's one thing I was thinking,
24:19
yeah, yeah. So I had a reflection on this
24:21
today. I'm like, I don't know that
24:23
we've ever had that many people listen to one of our podcasts at
24:28
one time is, you know, there could be 500 people in the room
24:32
different. Times, Yeah, just as many
24:34
people, Yeah. Other people listen at different
24:36
times. So I think we're gonna set a new
24:39
record on Monday. Yeah, I think it'll turn out
24:43
well. I'm kind of, I'm nervously
24:45
excited for it. The idea is that we're going to
24:49
do a live show on stage. It's gonna be very similar to
24:53
this format you and I are gonna. They're going to play our, you
24:56
know, our intro, you know, Jingle and you and I are going
24:59
to come up on the stage. We're going to sit down.
25:01
It's supposed to look like we're recording something.
25:02
I'm not sure how that's going to look, but we'll do it live.
25:06
You and I are going to have our normal sort of upfront banter.
25:10
It was specifically requested that we do banter.
25:12
So we'll have some of that, yeah.
25:15
And then we'll introduce our guests.
25:17
We're obviously we're going to talk about Vito authentication,
25:19
pass keys, things like that. We've got a few people that have
25:24
been scheduled and maybe a surprise guest we'll see.
25:27
But we'll have product managers basically from TikTok, Google
25:31
and eBay that are going to come up and sort of join the show as
25:35
sort of like a group interview life, you know, live show.
25:38
And we'll you know run through our normal kind of questions and
25:40
things like that. And we are going to, I'm even
25:42
thinking like what are we going to do for a lighter note.
25:43
So I've got some good ideas on how we're going to end the show
25:47
with, you know, shenanigans and high jinks and just.
25:50
Fun stuff that I like to do at the end.
25:53
Yeah. Yeah.
25:53
No, I I mean, that's what makes it fun for people.
25:56
Like we always want the podcast to be educational and
25:59
entertaining. So you know, that's usually the
26:02
entertaining part. But we're also at the conference
26:06
going to be recording some individual podcasts that will
26:10
drop over the next two weeks, I think.
26:14
So day one, we're recording for the second time with David Mahdi
26:17
from Transmit Security. Like the the Cheeto Chief
26:23
Identity Officer. And so he's going to be talking
26:27
to us about his. Everybody's talking about their
26:31
what they're presenting, but then of course we'll go off on
26:34
all the side trails to make it even.
26:36
Us No, we never. We would never do that.
26:40
What? Me complain.
26:43
So yeah, David will be talking about machine identities, which
26:46
I think is a huge topic. Well, Stephanie Shucker on.
26:50
So Stephanie was presented to us as the premier biometrics expert
26:55
in the world. And we talked to her for, what
26:58
was it, 1/2 hour, Jeff? And I'm like, yeah, I can see
27:02
that. I don't know all the biometrics
27:05
experts in the world, but she probably gets, you know, gets
27:08
that award. Best biometric person on the
27:11
best identity podcast in the world?
27:13
Bam. Take that.
27:15
We have Pam Dingle on. I mean, everybody knows who Pam
27:18
is, Microsoft, yeah, I think there's so much that we can talk
27:24
about that we have to make sure that we get to the the, the top
27:29
issues and and primarily we want to give her some time to talk
27:31
about like what she's presenting on because it's a talk of mine
27:34
for her. We're going to have Pedro
27:37
Martinez on from Taos Group. Pedro's there talking about pass
27:41
keys in financial services, but I think he's going to talk more
27:46
broadly than just financial services.
27:48
And so we'll get that perspective because I think he's
27:53
the only person we're talking to specifically about Peskys.
27:56
And I think you know at this point that's the that's the
27:59
major theme for Fido Alliance. I don't know.
28:02
Who knows? Maybe it'll be a I, I'm sure.
28:06
I'll find a way to weave that into our keynote.
28:08
Is is something about a I? Yeah.
28:11
And we have Ori Eisen from Trucen and he's talking pastor
28:15
list, so excited about that conversation as well.
28:17
The password list for me is like, you know that was like
28:20
last year's buzz. I feel like we've made some
28:25
progress. I was thinking this past year
28:29
was going to be the year of password list.
28:31
I don't know that I can say that that's what it was.
28:34
They will look back on it and we will say that.
28:37
I think that's a big thing I want to say about thinking what
28:39
are the customers success stories that tied back to pass
28:43
through list. There were some good ones last
28:45
year. Let's see.
28:46
Our feet is becoming even more mainstream.
28:49
Well, I think it has to start somewhere.
28:50
The technology is there now and we've got basic interoperability
28:54
between devices and platforms and Os's, right.
29:00
I think, I think this last year will be the beginning of that
29:05
wave that we that we thought would be coming sooner.
29:08
But hey, better late than never. I'm excited to see it.
29:11
I'm excited to see more passkeys options popping up when I'm
29:14
signing into things. Google, actually, I think it was
29:17
this week. Earlier this week, they
29:19
announced passkeys by default for every user now.
29:23
I mean, that's a big step. Fantastic.
29:25
Yeah. Okay, it's 11:30 PM.
29:33
Not here. It's only 9. 30, yeah, right.
29:37
It'll be interesting to see what happens next week.
29:38
I'm kind of bummed I'm going to be there a couple days.
29:40
I have to, like, take a super early flight Wednesday morning
29:43
to get to Indianapolis. So while you're still sunning
29:45
yourself in California, I'm headed to Indianapolis for
29:49
another conference, a government focused thing in Indiana.
29:52
So that'll be fun, I guess. I'll see my friend Andrew.
29:59
So that's good. We'll have a good time, I'm sure
30:00
the two of us talking government and identity and things like
30:04
that. So leaving early Wednesday
30:06
morning, does that mean you're not going to take any of the
30:09
social hour activities tonight I think?
30:12
My flight's at like 6:00 AM or something like that on on
30:16
Wednesday. So I'm going to be like in
30:18
recording and then basically like pack up my stuff, go to
30:21
sleep and be out of, be out of there.
30:24
I'll drink all of your awful then.
30:26
Oh, thank you for making that sacrifice.
30:27
Yeah, appreciate that. You want to end on a later note?
30:32
Yeah, let's do that. You had you had an idea when we
30:35
talked about it and I haven't follow up if if we have time and
30:38
we and we think about it again what was yours okay.
30:41
So mine was what is the best? And I'm just freeing this on
30:45
you. It was the best and worst
30:48
airports you've been to. Okay.
30:51
Well the best one that I've been to would probably be Canada
30:55
Airport in Japan and now it's only it's been probably like 10
31:00
years since I was there. Maybe 7 but.
31:04
Just a super nice airport, super clean, very impressive.
31:07
Kind of walking in and having like these just high
31:12
architecture ceilings and trees and the infamous Hello Kitty
31:16
store that I felt had to sleep on a bench on outside because
31:20
thanks to United, I missed my connecting flight into the
31:22
Philippines. So.
31:24
But even still I think that was probably the nicest airport that
31:27
I've been at. Worst airport.
31:31
It's kind of hard to. That's kind of to say because
31:34
every airport can totally suck if you, like, have a bad
31:39
experience in it. I'm not sure how to answer that
31:43
because I feel like it could be any airport.
31:45
So let me remind you of 1. So we were in Connecticut.
31:50
I think it was Sanford, Connecticut.
31:53
And it was like a bus station. And it was like there was like
31:59
nowhere to sit, no alos to plug into.
32:02
That one was pretty bad. Yeah, I think La Guardia in New
32:07
York is really bad. Oh, it used to be bad, but it's
32:10
actually nice now. At least the United, Yeah, it's
32:13
really nice. I mean, it's a great turnaround.
32:15
I mean, it's kind of what you want to see.
32:16
But I remember being in La Guardia once and I was sitting
32:19
in one of the terminals and there was like A to call it a
32:24
week would not be fair. Two weeks this was like just an
32:29
open water faucet coming through the ceiling into the middle of
32:32
the concourse. And I was like, yeah, everything
32:35
I'd heard about La Guardia was instantly true.
32:38
I saw that. But they have turned it around.
32:40
They've got new construction there.
32:42
It's actually quite nice. Now I think one of those things
32:44
is really annoying. It's funny to go from like 1
32:47
terminal to next shift to get on the bus.
32:49
And it's like it feels like you're driving for like 10
32:52
minutes to get to the terminal that's probably, you know, 100
32:55
yards away. Chicago's like that right now.
32:58
O'Hare because first of all they had like the train, the people
33:01
mover, the tram monorail type thing was down for like 4 years
33:06
and then now that's the only way can get between some of the
33:09
different, some of the terminals because they're doing
33:11
construction everywhere. Yeah, O'Hare is, is a real pain
33:15
right now trying to move between terminals.
33:16
It's just not fun. Yeah.
33:18
So I'm going to surprise them my answer, but my favorite airport
33:22
is Detroit. That is a nice airport.
33:26
It's not nice airport. Minneapolis isn't too bad like
33:31
that. That shopping mall that they
33:32
have in the middle is pretty nice.
33:33
But I mean, getting from one end to the other is a real pain in
33:38
the neck. So I'm not a big Minneapolis
33:40
airport fan. I'm also not a Charlotte airport
33:44
fan. I think people think, oh, so
33:46
quaint. The middle area's got these
33:47
rocking chairs and stuff but if you get dropped and like E and
33:51
you've got to get to the other end of C or something like it
33:55
could be like 1/2 hour walk. It's it's not what it's not good
34:01
when you have a tight connection because then you start running
34:04
and then you get to to the gate and like your plane's already
34:07
taken off. So yeah, I'm not a big Charlotte
34:09
fan. I'm going to go with Detroit as
34:11
best. I also have to give honorable
34:13
mention to you know, and I haven't done a ton of
34:17
international travel, but the airport in Amsterdam, I think
34:21
it's called skiffle skiffle. I don't know.
34:24
Never been that is I I don't like it and I don't know if like
34:28
all the European airports are like this, but it's like there's
34:34
like a waiting room concept for each game.
34:39
You go through the security or they check your ticket and check
34:42
your passport and then you go and you like sit there away from
34:45
the board, the plane. So like the the common area is
34:49
almost like, I think it's almost like public.
34:52
It's been a really long while since I've been there, but I
34:55
hated that airport. Like I said, any airport can be
34:59
bad if you think about it hard enough, or if you have a
35:01
disastrous event in an airport. I thought of something as a
35:06
followup, lighter note, and I'm going to this is a challenge
35:09
that I'm pretty sure I'm going to win.
35:11
What's the best thing, best meal that you had this week?
35:18
It's pretty good ones, man. We had sushi last night that was
35:22
pretty out of this world, very expensive.
35:30
Fortunately, it's out of my out of my expense report.
35:37
So I had I went out to dinner with our good friend Daniel.
35:42
We went to a chef's tasting. That's always, yeah.
35:45
When Daniel's ordering me, you're going to get the best of
35:47
the best. Well, we went to a place just
35:51
like he and I and we had a chef's tasting.
35:53
And let me let me just read the menu to you because this is what
35:56
we had in one sitting and different courses.
35:59
First course was corn, carrot and radish, sort of a tasting
36:04
menu type thing. Corn with pine nut, carrot with
36:08
hay. It's kind of interesting radish
36:10
with rose. Then we followed that up with.
36:14
Oyster in a preserved mustard surf clam and a fermented black
36:18
bean. Hamachi and black vinegar
36:21
Jellyfish with Thai basil and a smoked trout row with seaweed.
36:25
Hamachi is what eel. I don't want to know because I
36:31
stepped way out of my comfort zone for this dinner.
36:34
This is sushi soup. Yeah, I mean, I've, I I.
36:39
I had oyster, I had surf clam, I had Machi, jellyfish, trout.
36:42
I mean, these are things that I would like jellyfish.
36:45
Yeah, jellyfish with Thai basil. I've never eaten jellyfish.
36:50
Wine. I don't remember.
36:52
There was also wine. Then we had crab with saffron
36:59
and ginkgo. That's when things started to
37:03
take a turn for the better, because I'm not really of the
37:05
sea. We then went to a rabbit soup
37:08
dumpling with blueberry vinegar, an antelope tartar with apple,
37:14
and then a chicken wing that was stuffed with Cordyceps.
37:17
Not a mushrooms person, but I could.
37:19
That was actually not bad, a black truffle consomme with
37:23
pecan tofu and then capped off on the savory side with a spiced
37:26
goat leg with scallion and sesame.
37:30
For dessert they had. It was like a basil.
37:34
Ice cream type thing with melon and I think it was cantaloupe
37:38
but I'm not exactly sure. And then a sweet potato cereal
37:41
with toasted milk. That sounds really great.
37:48
Yeah, Daniel's like, amazing. He's like you stepped out of
37:50
your country, was like, no, no, no.
37:52
I leaped out of my comfort zone with that milk, I was going to
37:55
say. That was even close.
37:57
Did you leave there and go and get like McDonald's or anything?
38:01
No, I that was it. That's all I had.
38:02
In fact that's I don't think I actually ate anything the rest
38:07
for that day. So that was kind of like
38:08
everything on once. Because I was, I should have
38:10
told you as the answer to your question.
38:12
Like I had the chicken sandwich at Popeyes today.
38:17
Hey, that's good too. Hey, teach their own.
38:20
Is that good? I'll do Taco Bell.
38:23
I'm not fancy. I don't.
38:24
I don't discriminate. I'll eat anything for the most
38:26
part. Any fast food, I should say, but
38:28
this was definitely a meal that was like.
38:30
Way outside my comfort zone. So I'm kind of glad I tried it.
38:34
Jellyfish. I mean that's that's that's
38:36
serious stuff right there. Hey, it started off a little bit
38:39
rough, cuz I was it was that oyster with mustard shooter.
38:42
Two things I don't really like. I tried it and I like, coughed
38:48
right away and Deanna just starts laughing at me that that
38:50
was really the first course type thing that came out, you know, I
38:54
was like, oh, it's gonna be the antelope.
38:56
Right. Yeah, exactly.
38:58
But it was good. The best part, The meal, though,
39:00
wasn't the food. It was all the food was actually
39:01
really good. This place called Apt 115 in
39:05
Austin, a little bit off of downtown, not too far away, but
39:08
it was, it was kind of cool. Spot was the chef who kind of
39:12
prepared. Everything would come out, and
39:15
he provided facts about what he was giving you in a very short,
39:20
I would say an unfriendly way, just like here's this.
39:25
Take it one bite. Enjoy and then you just walk
39:28
away. And we were having a good time
39:30
with that and our server was super, you know, friendly and
39:33
knowledgeable and everyone there was was actually pretty great.
39:35
But we were getting a cake out of like the chef coming over and
39:38
just not being Mr. Personality. I've heard when you have like a
39:41
sushi chef like they put the amount of soy sauce on it that
39:47
you're supposed to have. So if you like you used to go
39:50
into a sushi place and like dipping your, you know the soy.
39:53
Like that's not how you do it. It's like the three Michelin
39:58
star sushi places. Yeah, taste your food before you
40:01
decide to add more seasoning. I think that's a very American
40:03
thing. Is like, oh, you get the food
40:04
and then it's like you just throwing salt and ketchup on it
40:07
without you haven't tried it yet.
40:10
That's a cardinal rule of eating.
40:11
You should not be doing that. Taste the Food First, then if
40:15
you need to add things to it, do it.
40:16
It's. The cardinal rule.
40:17
But it's like I already know I want ketchup on my French rice.
40:21
Yes, but as a side. I'm I'm.
40:25
I'm more like thinking of like throwing ketchup on your steak,
40:28
right? Or things like that or adding
40:30
salt before you've even tried it.
40:32
I mean, that's that's bad for your steak.
40:35
Oh my goodness. Yeah, Who would do that?
40:37
Only lunatics would. All right, let's go ahead and
40:41
wrap it up before I turn into a pumpkin.
40:44
So yeah, this is going to go out Monday in a couple days.
40:47
We're sort of competing with our keynote.
40:49
But hey, that is kind of cool for people who aren't watching
40:51
our keynote. Maybe they're listening to this.
40:53
And we're told we'll get a recording of the keynote, so
40:58
we'll be able to publish that. Our plan is to publish that as
41:01
like the capstone of all the recordings we do next week.
41:06
So look forward to that. And if we don't get that
41:10
recording, I'm going to be kind of ticked off.
41:12
Yeah, I have faith and confidence.
41:14
I think. I think we'll get that.
41:15
I just don't know when I'm going to have time to pull it all
41:17
together. Because I'm going to be
41:19
traveling so much over there again the next few weeks, so
41:21
probably be an interesting release schedule.
41:24
But here we are almost midnight, just trying to get something out
41:28
for Monday to keep the streak alive and we we're going to do
41:30
it. I definitely get be able to get
41:31
this edited out in time and then we'll figure out the
41:35
Authenticate release schedule from there.
41:37
Oh, and by the way, I listened to the episode with you, Eve,
41:42
and Hutch. I thought, that's one that
41:45
everybody should listen to. That was hilarious.
41:48
Got into the DND conversation. She got into the the alarm
41:54
thing. And I'm telling you, like San
41:56
Francisco was like, I was the only one who knew this thing was
41:58
going to happen. No one seemed to care.
42:01
That was a fun conversation. I don't know.
42:03
I just have a good time. Every time Ian's on, he's great.
42:06
First time I'll be able to meet Hutch, he was great too.
42:09
That was just, you know, just. Three dudes sitting in a
42:13
backroom talking pretty much. I'm telling you, man, Ian could
42:16
be like a stand up comedian. He's a funny.
42:19
He's got a quick wit. Yeah, that's why he's who he is.
42:24
He's doing these keynotes and all kinds of stuff.
42:26
That's true. All right, let's wrap it up.
42:30
You can find us on the web, idacpodcast.com, on Twitter or X
42:35
or whatever we call it, IDAC Podcasts.
42:38
Nastodon at IDAC podcasts at infosec dot exchange.
42:43
We have our new LinkedIn page that I have yet to really
42:46
promote, but I'm been subtly like tagging it and all of the
42:50
recent LinkedIn posts whenever I post something, you know, new
42:52
episode or whatever it is. And we've got some followers
42:55
there, so subscribe, like share with friends.
42:59
For the folks who came up to me at Navigate, people like
43:02
Patrick, Edvin, Matthew, there were a couple guys from Sweden
43:07
and I met. I think one of them's name is
43:09
Marcus. I can't remember, sorry, but the
43:11
people who came up and introduced themselves was very
43:14
cool. I handed out some stickers, so
43:16
you'll be happy to know that there are more stickers in the
43:17
wild. Thumbs up from Jim.
43:19
But yeah, that's why we do this is just to have conversations
43:23
about identity like we do here and hopefully share with the
43:25
world. Anything else, Jim?
43:29
No, man. Sleep time.
43:32
Yeah, sleep time. And then just in time for my dog
43:34
to start chewing his little Nyla bone thing here.
43:38
So we'll wrap it up. Thanks everyone for listening
43:41
and we'll talk with y'all in the next one.
43:43
You've been listening to Identity at the Center.
43:47
We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and
43:51
review, and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the
43:54
website at identity@thecenter.com and find
43:59
us on Twitter at IBAC Podcast. See you next time on identity at
44:06
the center.