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How to Pay for an Online Program · Online with USU

• 0:00
  DAN ALLRED: Today, we're going to discuss the general cost of an online degree, what goes into that cost, and ways of paying for it. So settle in and let's talk. Today, I'm joined by Vice provost of Online Education, Ryan Hobbs, and the director of the Student Money Management Center, Darrell Harris. And this is Online with USU, where education meets real life, so you can build what's next.
• 0:18
  [THEME MUSIC]
• 0:36
  So for brief introductions, Ryan, why don't you give us an update and remind those that weren't here for episode 1 who you are?
• 0:41
  RYAN HOBBS: Sounds great, Dan. It's good to be here. As was mentioned, Vice Provost of Online Education, I have the great privilege of overseeing the online enterprise, which includes the online campus and all the different components that are associated with that.
• 0:57
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent. And Darrell, you're new to the podcast. Please tell us what it is you do and how long you been doing it.
• 1:02
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, I'm the director of the Student Money Management Center. So I love to sit down with students and talk finances, figure out how much it's going to cost and how to pay for it. I've been doing this for the last 5 and 1/2, 6 years.
• 1:14
  DAN ALLRED: And you were the first director. This was a new project when you took it on.
• 1:16
  DARRELL HARRIS: Correct.
• 1:17
  DAN ALLRED: And I remember that there was some curiosity about how successful this endeavor would be if students really take advantage of it. How has it been taken advantage of? How have students responded to it?
• 1:28
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, the first year, we met with about 850 students. And each year, it has been increasing. It's really popular. Last year, we met with over 2,000 students. And we've gone from a crew of about three financial coaches to this fall, we'll be at eight.
• 1:45
  DAN ALLRED: So it's been a rousing success, I think we could probably--
• 1:47
  DARRELL HARRIS: I would say so. [CHUCKLES]
• 1:49
  DAN ALLRED: So, Darrell, what exactly is the Student Money Management Center?
• 1:52
  DARRELL HARRIS: It's an office where we meet with students either in person or via Zoom. So we meet with a lot of online students, wherever they may be, in the daytime hours, mostly. But we do have some evening appointments. And it's an hour-long appointment, where we just discuss income, look at the person's income, what they're making, they and their spouse, if they're married. We look at all the expenses, even from housing, food, you name it, plus tuition and everything else.
• 2:18
  DAN ALLRED: Nice. So they get a complete breakdown in terms of what expenses they've got and then how they can help cover those various things with their earnings, as well as other options, which we'll talk about those additional options later.
• 2:30
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah. We generally do a 12-month plan. And so we'll analyze the person's income over a 12-month period, all of their expenses. So we cover two or three semesters of tuition fees and everything like that.
• 2:42
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent. I got to ask, has there ever been a time, where a student came in, and you looked at everything and were just like, yeah, you can't do school, flat out. Has that ever happened?
• 2:54
  DARRELL HARRIS: That has never happened. No. There's always options to pay for schooling. It's either, we try to look at the person's income themselves or how far that can go. And if that can't quite cover it all, then there's all kinds of federal programs, there's state programs, there's loans. They can get federal loans. And then beyond those, there's always additional private loans if they need.
• 3:16
  DAN ALLRED: Awesome. Awesome. And I think our plan is to get into those a little bit further on in the podcast.
• 3:20
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 3:20
  DAN ALLRED: That's a great overview of what you guys do over there. And personally, I think it's awesome. I think it's an amazing opportunity and resource for students, just 100%.
• 3:29
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, thanks.
• 3:31
  DAN ALLRED: So, Ryan, let's get into cost. What is the cost of an online degree?
• 3:38
  RYAN HOBBS: This is not the million dollar question?
• 3:40
  DAN ALLRED: [CHUCKLES] Yeah. We had a lengthy conversation about this earlier and preparing for this whole recording. So let's talk about it.
• 3:46
  RYAN HOBBS: Well, the simple answer is, it's complex. It's not a simple answer, which is why it's probably the top concern or question for students, because there's a lot of variables. There's a variable of where you reside, being a state institution. We factor in things in terms of residency, in many cases.
• 4:08
  As a lot of programs and education is subsidized from the state taxpayers, the level-- undergraduate, graduate.
• 4:17
  DAN ALLRED: Undergraduate being associate. Bachelor's graduate being master's and doctorate. The more advanced degrees.
• 4:21
  RYAN HOBBS: That's correct. And as part of our institutional mission, we have enough other credentials as well that maybe don't fit into those traditional degree structures. There's also the element of the program itself, program costs, and they vary greatly based upon the experience, and obviously, the earning potential of that program as well, but primarily, the costs associated with actually making sure that experience is a good experience for students.
• 4:50
  DAN ALLRED: Yeah. It's all about value and return on investment. And that's really what we're getting into today is, we acknowledge the cost is an important question, and we're not trying to hide it. It is complex, though, so it's impossible for a student to be like, what is this going to cost me? From start to finish, what's going to be the final cost? And that is just a question that is so difficult to answer because of all the complexity that goes into it.
• 5:15
  RYAN HOBBS: Absolutely.
• 5:16
  DAN ALLRED: Now, I think it's important to note that we do list our tuition and fee costs, all the things on our website. Students can go to usu.edu/online/cost and find a calculator and a rundown of a lot of these considerations. It's important to note that whenever one looks at the cost of education, there's an element of sticker shock there. It looks like a large amount.
• 5:37
  Especially, there are programs out there that will say, get this program for x number of dollars. And that is usually a large number. I mean, we're talking, sometimes, car type. But the thing is, we're not dishing that all out at once, are we? When students pay for college, they're not dropping the bag in the first moment.
• 5:55
  RYAN HOBBS: That's correct. Yeah. The costs are obviously dispersed over multiple terms or semesters. The other aspect is that it's quite rare, if at all, that a student ever pays the full price.
• 6:07
  DAN ALLRED: That's true. I mean, that's because students will usually come in with transfer work. And then, of course, there's the additional aides that help when covering that cost, such as federal aid, scholarships, and those sorts of opportunities.
• 6:18
  RYAN HOBBS: That's right. Yeah.
• 6:19
  DAN ALLRED: So now that we've covered cost, Darrell, what are some of the ways that students can pay for an online degree?
• 6:25
  DARRELL HARRIS: There's really mainly three ways students pay for their tuition and fees. And that's their own money. It is money given to them in the form of a scholarship or it's borrowed money-- federal loans or private loans. There's also tuition reimbursement by a lot of companies. A lot of students who are working at least a 30 or 40-hour a week job, their employer will offer a tuition reimbursement. And there's many programs, many companies that do offer that also.
• 6:50
  DAN ALLRED: Awesome. Awesome. Now, I think it is important that we distinguish, because there's some words floating out there when it comes to, shall we say, tuition assistance. What's the difference between financial aid and scholarships?
• 7:03
  DARRELL HARRIS: Great question. So when people fill out the FAFSA, which stands for Free Application for Federal Student Aid, they find out, if they qualify for Pell Grants-- Pell Grants are just offered for first bachelors, not for second bachelors. And that money can be up to $3,698 a semester in free money Pell Grants that are given to the students. That's money that does not need to be paid back for those undergraduate degrees.
• 7:30
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent.
• 7:31
  DARRELL HARRIS: By completing the FAFSA, they also find out if they qualify for subsidized loans and/or unsubsidized loans.
• 7:38
  DAN ALLRED: And what's the difference?
• 7:40
  DARRELL HARRIS: The subsidized loans do not charge-- well, I guess, they both charge interest, but the government subsidizes the subsidized loans, so that the students are not charged any interest as long as they're taking at least six credits as an undergraduate student. So it could be four, or five, or six years that it's basically an interest-free loan until they graduate.
• 7:59
  DAN ALLRED: So six credits is a very common, and I would say, potentially, not too arduous amount.
• 8:05
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 8:06
  DAN ALLRED: It's a pretty good pace for students that are involved with family responsibilities and work responsibilities.
• 8:11
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah. Most of the students I talk to are taking online classes and working full-time, they take about six credits a semester. And they tend to go year round-- fall, spring, summer.
• 8:20
  DAN ALLRED: And that enables them to keep that pace up so that they're not taking too long to complete their degree, because we don't want to hold them here forever.
• 8:27
  DARRELL HARRIS: Right.
• 8:28
  DAN ALLRED: And so the Pell Grant, which is the gold standard, I think--
• 8:32
  DARRELL HARRIS: That's free money. You don't fish for that. We love that.
• 8:36
  DAN ALLRED: So yeah, anytime someone wants to give you money, let's take them up on it. So the Pell Grant, the subsidized student loans, the unsubsidized student loans, those that come from the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, that's what's being referred to when we talk about financial aid.
• 8:51
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's the financial aid, the money that comes from the federal government.
• 8:54
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent.
• 8:55
  DARRELL HARRIS: Now, the amounts that they can get changes based on what year, how many credits they've completed. So most new freshmen can borrow, in federal loans, up to $5,500, sophomores, $6,500, juniors and seniors, they can get $7,500 a year. Once they're married, or 24, or once they reach that independent stage, then they can start getting additional money to borrow. And it starts, I think, at $7,500 or $9,500, $10,500, and then $12,500 each year.
• 9:27
  DAN ALLRED: So more than enough to cover tuition and fees. And I know that the general advice is, only borrow what you need to cover your expenses there. I mean, you definitely don't want to be trying to borrow money on federal aid to subsidize your lifestyle.
• 9:41
  DARRELL HARRIS: Correct. And those numbers I threw out, those are, again, for the undergraduate degree. Once someone starts getting into the master's and PhD, it's $20,500 a year they can borrow.
• 9:51
  DAN ALLRED: Again, more than enough to cover one of the semester costs or yearly costs for those programs.
• 9:55
  DARRELL HARRIS: Generally so, yes.
• 9:56
  DAN ALLRED: Generally so, yes. Excellent. I mean, well if it's that plus additional income plus potential scholarships, I think it can we safely say that money more than makes up for that or makes up for deficiencies in other areas.
• 10:08
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah. Occasionally, we'll have a student who's doing something like in the Huntsman School of Business, a Master's program, which is a little more expensive, maybe $1,000 a credit. And if they're trying to push through more quickly, so not working full-time, all of a sudden, it could be $30,000 they have to pay in a single year. In those instances, the $20,500 doesn't cover the full tuition, and so those students, if they can't pay out of their own pocket, that's when potentially, the private loans would kick in.
• 10:35
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent that there are options for that. But that's--
• 10:37
  DARRELL HARRIS: There's always option for that.
• 10:38
  DAN ALLRED: --a great breakdown. Yeah. Like you said earlier, you haven't run into a student yet that wasn't able to find a way to pay for college.
• 10:43
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, not when you consider, you can always tap into those additional private loans. Every year, we establish what a cost of attendance is. The cost of attendance includes more than just tuition and fees. It goes into the housing, transportation, food, all of those things. And students can always borrow up to that full cost of attendance between their federal loans and their private loans.
• 11:04
  DAN ALLRED: I think this is fantastic because it demonstrates that you've got your office, and your coaches aren't just looking at, how do we make sure students can pay for us? But how can students make sure that they live and are able to meet all their obligations and not just school? Because let's face it, school is a priority, it's not always the priority for these students.
• 11:23
  DARRELL HARRIS: Correct. Yeah. And that's exactly why we like to do a 12-month budget, because a lot of students, they'll go to school heavy, fall and spring, but then not in the summer. So we like to include all of that summer income if they're working full-time to help offset those months when they don't work as much during fall and spring.
• 11:40
  DAN ALLRED: And I think that, I mean, this is so important, because finances, if they're stressed about finances, they're probably not going to be doing as well in their classes. So this is really a part of a holistic approach that we have here to try to make sure the students are able to be successful.
• 11:55
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 11:57
  DAN ALLRED: Now, we've talked about financial aid and we've talked about private loans. Tell us more about scholarships.
• 12:01
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, scholarships, there's a wide variety of scholarships. There's just wonderfully kind people in the world that are willing to give back. And they create their own criteria. Maybe they're looking for left-handed people or people who live in rural communities. But they set their own criteria. And students can apply for those private scholarships at any time of the year.
• 12:22
  Utah State then has our own institutional scholarships, and we have thousands of them. And we load them onto our website, our scholarship portal every December. We put thousands of scholarships. And students, we encourage them to apply December, January, and February. We start awarding them. And then by March, they know if they've received any of those institutional scholarships.
• 12:42
  DAN ALLRED: I think that's fantastic, because as a student here at Utah State, I remember trying to find scholarships. And I had to go to the history department to see if what departmental scholarships there were. Yeah, the inclusion center, to see if I had qualified for anything there, there were just so many scholarships, so many places, so many applications. And then the scholarship portal came around, and I cheered. I was at one place for everything. This is awesome.
• 13:05
  DARRELL HARRIS: About three or four years ago, the university bought some software called Scholarship Universe. And it's a database for all of our scholarships. So even those private ones that we hear about, we load their information into our portal.
• 13:17
  DAN ALLRED: I have to ask you, have you heard of the Sakamoto scholarship?
• 13:20
  DARRELL HARRIS: I have not.
• 13:21
  DAN ALLRED: This is a personal experience for me. It's one of those generous families that donated money. The only criteria for this scholarship was that you live in Carbon County, Utah or Mesa County, Colorado.
• 13:31
  And I remember taking full advantage of that when I was doing my Master's program. I was living in price, working at our USU Eastern Campus. And those third party scholarships, if they're not in the Scholarship Universe, they can also be found elsewhere, though, through Google searches and that kind of thing as well.
• 13:44
  DARRELL HARRIS: Correct. But if we find them, we load them into our Scholarship Universe.
• 13:48
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent. That's awesome. That's awesome.
• 13:49
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah. Thousands of scholarships. We normally don't get into specifics, because we just say, go in there, answer questions, and you'll start seeing everything that you could apply for. But I mean, there's even Department of Workforce Services. If you have two years or less and you're not making a ton of money, maybe 12,000 or 13,000, they'll pay, I think, $6,000 a year towards your completing whatever program you're in.
• 14:14
  DAN ALLRED: Dang.
• 14:14
  DARRELL HARRIS: That's a great one, Department of Workforce Services.
• 14:17
  RYAN HOBBS: Darrell, you mentioned the employer's reimbursement programs.
• 14:21
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 14:21
  RYAN HOBBS: Can you speak a little bit more about that? And how would a student even know about that?
• 14:26
  DARRELL HARRIS: Basically, they needed to contact their HR department and ask about tuition reimbursement. I've met many students who work for UPS, Home Depot, Lowe's, Cytiva. Talk to your HR representative and ask, is there any kind of tuition reimbursement that they offer? It'll generally be a certain amount, maybe $2,500, within an academic year.
• 14:50
  And so you just fill out the paperwork, and they'll generally want to see your charges, how many credits you're taking, submit it to your HR office. Some of them will just pay upfront, others wait to see if you passed all your classes. If you did, then they will reimburse. But it's generally based on an academic year-- or a calendar year, I'm sorry.
• 15:08
  DAN ALLRED: Yeah. We've worked with a couple of different companies-- Northrop, Grumman, and Vivint. With regards to their employees, they've approached us and said, hey, we love the opportunities that you offer.
• 15:17
  And so I've personally seen some interactions with that as well. Oftentimes, they'll have you work with an academic advisor, but I mean, our advisors are more than able to work with that kind of paperwork and get that back to the students, so they can get it with their HR.
• 15:31
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah. I mean, I know students who work at McDonald's that get $2,500 a year.
• 15:36
  DAN ALLRED: There we go. There we go. So, Darrell, we've talked about some of the undergraduate options. And let's face it, a lot of options are focused around the undergraduate. But what options are available for the graduate level?
• 15:46
  DARRELL HARRIS: A lot of graduate programs at Utah State will offer a stipend to the students if they're going through their Master's or their PhD work. Often, the stipend will cover all of their tuition and fees, and it will give them a monthly amount that they get paid year round if they're doing research and things like that.
• 16:06
  The students are generally required, if you will, to work about 20 hours a week doing the research for the department. And that's what gets them that monthly stipend in addition to their tuition and fees covered. Now, it's not all programs, but if it's in the STEM Sciences, I mean, absolutely.
• 16:22
  DAN ALLRED: That's certainly a big area.
• 16:23
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 16:23
  DAN ALLRED: But they can talk with their departments to see what options are available there.
• 16:26
  DARRELL HARRIS: Exactly.
• 16:27
  DAN ALLRED: Excellent. And we've talked about all the different ways that we can try to reduce or things that we don't have to pay, but when it does come down to the final account balance, do students have to pay that all at once? What options are there for addressing the leftover amount that comes out of pocket?
• 16:45
  DARRELL HARRIS: Whenever I sit down with a student, and we map out their income and their expenses, and when tuition is due, if they don't have quite enough money to pay it at that time, then there's really two options-- they can either do a payment plan, which spreads their payments out over four or five months, and it costs only $50 to do. No interest is charged during the whole time. They can either do that payment plan, or they could borrow a little bit of money to get them through, and then their own income then covers and makes up the rest. So there's always really two options every semester.
• 17:15
  DAN ALLRED: Nice. I've always known about the payment plans and made use of those myself when I was a student, but I didn't know that there was that other option as well.
• 17:22
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 17:22
  RYAN HOBBS: Darrell, so you mentioned about the Student Money Management Center. Could you talk a little bit more about that experience? How does a student make an appointment? What are those appointments like? What should they come prepared with? Any details that you'd like to share.
• 17:34
  DARRELL HARRIS: Oh, yeah I'd love to. So we have a website, usu.edu backslash SMMC, stands for Student Money Management Center. And that's where everyone goes to set up an appointment. When you go to that website, there's really one thing you can do, and that's schedule an appointment.
• 17:49
  You'll see all the coaches are Dame. If you want to set a particular appointment, if you wanted to schedule an appointment with me, you'd scroll down below my name and click Schedule An Appointment. And there, you would see our in-person and our Zoom appointments.
• 18:00
  When you go to Schedule An Appointment, it's going to ask you several questions-- one of which will be, what is the purpose of your meeting? Do you want to talk budgeting? Do you want to talk about credit? We talk about credit. Lots of students, we talk to a lot of 18, 19, 20-year-olds who haven't even started thinking about credit cards and credit. So we talk about that.
• 18:17
  We also talk about if you've had identity theft and what happens with that, several students will have that problem. And then a year-long plan, student loan information. I mean, it'll just ask, really, what is it you want to discuss when we meet?
• 18:32
  After they fill that out, they've selected their time. So when we get ready to meet with the student, we'll know what they wanted to talk about. And then we'll just start the meeting. I'll talk a little bit, get to know you, so that we know what we're starting from.
• 18:44
  And then we'll get right in and say, how much money are you starting with? What is your starting point? What is your monthly income? And we'll establish, basically, how much you're earning each month over the next 12 months?
• 18:55
  And then I'll look up, I have the ability to see any kind of grants you're getting, all your scholarships, federal loan options. I can see the cost of attendance, all those things I can already see. And then we'll start talking about the actual expenses-- what their tuition will be based on where they live, if they're a resident, nonresident, living in-state, out of state. We get very specific, down to the dollar of what it's going to cost each semester, based on how many credits they're taking.
• 19:21
  We'll also ask-- what's your mortgage or your rent? And how much a month do you spend on food? And after doing this for five or six years, I have very good average numbers. So I can help them understand, you're actually a little on the high side, higher than average, or you're below average. So a lot of students appreciate understanding where they sit in comparison with other Aggies.
• 19:42
  And then we just keep going through all everything they spend on fun, medical, if you've got kids, if you don't have kids. And so at the end, our spreadsheet just looks at each month what their income is, what their expenses are. And it starts showing monthly what they're looking like. If they're continue to be in the positive or if they start running out of money, we'll know exactly when it's going to happen and by how much.
• 20:03
  And then we come back and say, there's really three things you can do to improve your finances-- you can try to make more money, you can try to spend less, or the least favorite, you can borrow after we've already looked at all the scholarships and everything.
• 20:16
  And that's where we just make some suggestions. And the person can really plan out their future. And if they wanted to try to do it themselves without any loans, we show them what that would take. If they'd have to earn a little bit more, or if they'd have to cut some expenses.
• 20:31
  DAN ALLRED: Gotcha. You make sure that they've got all the information they need in order to make an informed decision on moving forward with financially.
• 20:37
  DARRELL HARRIS: Correct. Yeah. It's just it's very user-friendly. They provide us the information. And then we have the ability to show them, if they were to make this little change, how would it affect 12 months later? And then we share that spreadsheet with them and offer a few bits of advice about how to stick to a budget, because it's great to make the plan, but then what's the best way to actually stick to it? So we talk about methods to do that.
• 21:00
  DAN ALLRED: That's fantastic, because my wife, who did her degree in-- her Capstone class was how to motivate people to save for retirement. So personal finances and family finances has always been an interest. Whenever I asked, what's the best budget software to use or the best budget to make? She always says, whatever you can stick with.
• 21:18
  And so the fact that you offer advice on how to stick with a budget is also very, very beneficial. So it sounds like there would be some either documentation or certainly, pre-knowledge going into this appointment, that they should have in terms of their expenses and stuff like that. Are those documents or those things listed when they make the appointment?
• 21:37
  DARRELL HARRIS: Correct. That's exactly what happens. When they fill out that form, it will ask them to better prepare yourself for this. It would be really good to look back at your last three months' expenses on your mortgage, your rent, your eating, groceries, so you've got a little bit of a knowledge.
• 21:54
  But even if they don't, that's OK, because a lot of students, we can either go with what they've done in the past, which is the best indicator for the future, but also at any time, you really could stop spending $200 a month eating out and do better. So even if they don't come with that information, we can still make the budget with them.
• 22:11
  DAN ALLRED: There's a lot you can still extrapolate. And I think it goes without saying, but these are, of course 100% confidential.
• 22:16
  DARRELL HARRIS: Absolutely. Yeah.
• 22:18
  DAN ALLRED: Let's talk about where USU falls in comparison with other schools and general ideas of cost. So is there a good benchmark that we can go off of? Or what are some good things that we can give in terms of what students can expect?
• 22:34
  RYAN HOBBS: It's a great question, Dan. Online students tend to enroll fairly close to home. And so it's natural for students to naturally compare costs from local institutions. And Utah State is very favorable in terms of that position.
• 22:56
  Having said that, we're the only R1 land grant institution in the state. And so that research aspect adds additional value, adds additional cost as well. But that value and experience that a student receives, that's something important to factor in as part of this experience. But in terms of our benchmarking with our peers, we tend to be a little below average in terms of cost. But if you compare ourselves straight across to some of the more local institutions, might tend to be a little more expensive, perhaps.
• 23:28
  DAN ALLRED: We can't be out community colleges, flat out. Community colleges are going to be cheaper than we are. And some of those more regional-focused, less research-type institutions aren't are going to be a little bit lower than us.
• 23:40
  DARRELL HARRIS: Well, I'm just going to pipe in. I mean, just this morning, I had a student and his father, who came to me, and they said, we've been planning on going to a community college here in Utah. And they've done all the math and everything.
• 23:51
  And when you take into account housing, and transportation, and food with the student living away from home, he came back and said, I've done the math. And I think we'd be cheaper coming to Utah State, living at home, not paying the rent and the food, even though the tuition is a little bit more compared to a community college. And it works out that USU staying at home is cheaper.
• 24:15
  DAN ALLRED: That's very true for. And for students taking online classes, those costs are usually already being covered. And they don't have to worry about incurring additional costs for that.
• 24:23
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah.
• 24:24
  DAN ALLRED: So that's fantastic. You mentioned our peer institutions. I mean, this is certainly in the Intermountain West. And we're favorably priced with them, other public four-year schools. Anything with "state" in the name is going to be similar to what we are. Of course, there's some more specific ones. But how do we fit across the country?
• 24:43
  RYAN HOBBS: Yeah. You don't have to look very far to see that, a lot of other institutional costs are much higher. California, for example, there's higher cost of living, additional costs there. The East Coast tends to be more expensive as well. So obviously, being in Utah, our rates are very affordable in comparison.
• 25:00
  DAN ALLRED: I'll always remember being in a class with a student who was from New Hampshire. And someone asked, why are you here instead of New Hampshire? And he's like, because, out of state, nonresident tuition here in Utah is cheaper than in-state, resident tuition is in New Hampshire.
• 25:15
  RYAN HOBBS: That's right.
• 25:16
  DARRELL HARRIS: In fact, our current out-of-state online rate is very comparable to our in-state rate.
• 25:22
  DAN ALLRED: Yes.
• 25:22
  RYAN HOBBS: And designed intentionally for that purpose.
• 25:24
  DAN ALLRED: And that's an important distinction. When we talk about out-of-state here at Utah State, it is different than nonresident. Everyone knows that nonresident is generally significantly higher than what the locals pay. But for anybody that's outside of Utah, that's taking online classes from Utah State, we don't punish them for that fact. They pay a comparable rate to our resident in-state students.
• 25:44
  RYAN HOBBS: That is correct. And for students who want to gain residency in the state of Utah, it's a fairly straightforward process and obtain that residency aspect, if that's what they so choose. You're not limited to the online-only aspect.
• 25:57
  DAN ALLRED: Yeah. That's one of the things I love about Utah State system is, if you want to move around in it, if you start off on campus and then go online, or start off online and go on campus, there are pathways to do that.
• 26:06
  RYAN HOBBS: That's right.
• 26:07
  DAN ALLRED: As we all know, online classes are particularly enticing because of the flexibility they allow for students to work while also going to school. Now, Darrell, you mentioned that a lot of the students you work with are working part-time or full-time. How does this all factor in? Or how does students address this while also going to school?
• 26:27
  DARRELL HARRIS: I don't know. It just happens. I mean, honestly, about 90% of the students that I talk to work part-time while going to college. It's just what they do. They realize to pay for everything else-- the food, and the housing, and the fun. They have to work part-time.
• 26:40
  DAN ALLRED: And you meet with on-campus students, as well as online students.
• 26:43
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, exactly, both. And all of them are working generally. The only students who I don't see working are ones whose parents are just paying for everything.
• 26:52
  DAN ALLRED: Which is a fantastic opportunity if that's available.
• 26:55
  DARRELL HARRIS: That's great.
• 26:55
  DAN ALLRED: However, about 95% don't have that opportunity.
• 26:58
  DARRELL HARRIS: That's exactly right.
• 27:00
  RYAN HOBBS: Then there's one thing that's about online offerings is the aspect of flexibility-- whether it's pacing, whether it's work schedule working around that component.
• 27:12
  DARRELL HARRIS: Well, I definitely talk more about that because I talk to students who are trying to get it, so they only work on Monday and Wednesday, so they can work a full shift Tuesday and Thursday. Whereas online, boy, you can get your 20 hours in, easy, and you don't have to try to finagle things.
• 27:28
  RYAN HOBBS: That is one benefit with online, is that it allows that flexibility in your calendar and your schedule. You're not having to work classes around things. You can have education around your life.
• 27:37
  DAN ALLRED: One of the other benefits about doing school and work at the same time is you can often apply what you learn to what you work, and even get internship credits where you're able to do work and get credit for it in your program.
• 27:51
  RYAN HOBBS: That's right. Many of those internships are paid internships.
• 27:55
  DAN ALLRED: Yeah. Now, with all of our discussions about working, it reminds me that when it comes to cost, a lot of students see that big cost of a Bachelor's Degree, and that looks like it's out of sight.
• 28:07
  But what's great is about all the different types of programs we have is that students can start with a much smaller program, and take classes, and receive a certificate, for instance, or maybe an associate's. And stack these programs up into a full degree over time, so that they're able to get that certificate, potentially get a better job, get more money from their current job, and then move on from there. And so it's a great way of not just advancing your career but doing it in a way that allows you to meet those expenses as you go.
• 28:37
  RYAN HOBBS: It doesn't all have to be at once.
• 28:39
  DAN ALLRED: It doesn't have to be all at once. In fact, thinking about internships, some of our programs are specialized in that. In fact, our Huntsman School of Business, with their programs, they've got an amazing internship program. The vast majority of them are all paid. And they're able to place students, after graduation, in a lot of those jobs. In fact, what was it? 100% placement, I think, is what I've seen.
• 28:58
  DARRELL HARRIS: That's what I've seen. Yeah, and it starts about their junior year and into their senior year and beyond.
• 29:04
  DAN ALLRED: It's an amazing opportunity for students to get into a career or expand their career opportunities. And it all comes from also combining their work with their school. Now that we've talked about cost, and the components there, and options for paying for school, really, what it comes down to is, is it worth it? What is the return on investment? What is the value of an on location? Why would someone want to pursue this based on the costs that we have?
• 29:30
  RYAN HOBBS: Well, our graduates of USU are well-prepared, and that return on investment, it's there, and it happens quickly. By virtue of who we are, and we have some specializations in areas that were known for-- education, engineering--
• 29:47
  DAN ALLRED: Business.
• 29:48
  RYAN HOBBS: --business, natural resources, et cetera, in those particular areas, there's a great reputation. And as part of that, students ends up landing great jobs with better salaries. But most importantly, our students are well-prepared.
• 30:02
  DAN ALLRED: One of the things I loved about my own undergraduate program is that I got to do undergraduate research. We've actually got the second oldest undergraduate research program in the country, which means that students are able to take advantage of working close with professors, learning new things, discovering new things while they're doing their Bachelor's Degree, which is not normally associate. I mean, research is normally thought of in that case.
• 30:21
  And so I was able to do research and expand my horizons before I even graduated. I thought that was a wonderful opportunity that we have for students.
• 30:30
  RYAN HOBBS: Absolutely.
• 30:31
  DAN ALLRED: I'm also reminded of one of my professors that when it comes to, what can a degree from Utah State do for you? Professor from Blackfoot, Idaho, which is a little town up in Idaho that's known more for the fair than I think anything else. That's the only reason I've ever been to Blackfoot.
• 30:47
  She came to Utah State, got a history degree here at Utah State, went on to Yale Divinity School, which I think everybody in the country knows of Yale. They've heard of Yale and the incredible programs that they have. Did her Master's at Yale, and then went and did a doctorate degree, her ultimate degree at Cambridge in England, which world renowned for their programs.
• 31:10
  And she came, and she taught here. She was an adjunct professor for a couple of years, which is where I met her and took a couple classes from her. Loved her classes. She was phenomenal. But I've always used her story when I'm talking with prospective students of, wherever life wants to take you, starting off with a degree at Utah State is a fantastic way to do it, because it opens all kinds of doors and will get you what you need in order to achieve those objectives.
• 31:32
  RYAN HOBBS: Absolutely. Many of our students, also, by virtue of the experience that they have here, they become leaders really quickly. In fact, there's Aggies everywhere.
• 31:43
  DAN ALLRED: There are Aggies everywhere.
• 31:45
  RYAN HOBBS: But not only Aggies everywhere, but there's Aggie leaders everywhere.
• 31:49
  DAN ALLRED: We've seen this in businesses as well as other elements leadership. One of our bragging points is Crumbl Cookies was started by an Aggie before they graduated, if I remember correctly. Are they global yet? I'm pretty sure they may be global. If not, they're not.
• 32:09
  RYAN HOBBS: They should be in the country. Yeah.
• 32:10
  DAN ALLRED: They make good cookies. So I mean, we've got Aggies that are well prepared to go out and do things. Thinking of discovering new things, one of the bragging points that our university has is that we have more student experiments going to space than any other school in the country, possibly even the world.
• 32:32
  And so it's awesome that the students have the opportunity to engage in these sorts of activities before they've even gotten into their professional lives. And they're able to have that and take that to the recruiters and to their corporate world with these wonderful accolades.
• 32:50
  RYAN HOBBS: Another value-add of an online education or just education in general is the aspect of confidence, the ability to tackle problems, to be successful. And anyway, online makes that possible.
• 33:07
  DAN ALLRED: I think there's research out there that ties the educational level of children to their parents. Interestingly enough, it is more closely tied to the mother than it is the father. And we know that a lot of women may be supporting their husbands or supporting their families, working a lot of responsibilities. Online tends to work really, really well for them, with everything else that they've got on their plate.
• 33:30
  RYAN HOBBS: Yeah. A great opportunity for them to impact their communities and contribute in ways that maybe don't necessarily mean a paycheck per se as well.
• 33:39
  DAN ALLRED: Thank you so much, Ryan and Darrell, for joining me today. Is there anything else you guys would like to add as part of this conversation?
• 33:45
  RYAN HOBBS: I think we've covered it pretty well. I don't know. What do you think, Darrell?
• 33:48
  DARRELL HARRIS: I mean, I'd be happy to. One thing I love as being a financial coach is, we meet with students who are all the way to the one side, where they need help paying for anything and everything, and others who, they've got scholarships, they've got grants, and everything's fine.
• 34:03
  As a coach, we get to help meet the students, wherever they're at, and say, you could do just a little bit better here financially. From students who know how to borrow less to students who are doing great, we start saying, you really should start investing your money. And we can help students do that too. So we meet you wherever you're at and help you along just a little bit more.
• 34:22
  DAN ALLRED: And I love that you guys approach it holistically, because that's really what we're about. We're about student success. And that's not just in the classroom. We want to make sure that students are doing well in other elements because they're not just students. A student is a part of their identity. But we're here to make sure that they get through life and they are able to succeed.
• 34:43
  Once again, Darrell, where can students find you? Where can current students find you to set up an appointment for this kind of thing? And where can others just learn more about the Student Money Management Center?
• 34:51
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, just from our website, usu.edu/smmc, as in Student Money Management Center.
• 34:57
  DAN ALLRED: Makes it easy.
• 34:58
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yup.
• 34:58
  DAN ALLRED: Now, Darrell, an important question-- can prospective students use the Student Money Management Center as well as current students?
• 35:04
  DARRELL HARRIS: Yeah, absolutely. We want to let them know that if they want to know, could I afford this? Then we meet with them to show them the possibilities, absolutely, before they start.
• 35:13
  DAN ALLRED: That is wonderful. So it's not just like, we're not pulling any kind of grift or anything, it's like, yes, enroll for college. And oh, look at this. But no, we want people to know before so that they can make an informed decision.
• 35:23
  DARRELL HARRIS: Absolutely. We want them to know exactly what's coming before it hits them.
• 35:27
  DAN ALLRED: Thank you, guys, once more for joining me. If you have any more questions for us, please email us at online\@usu.edu. As always, I'm Dan Allred, your host. And remember to go out and build what's next.
• 35:37
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