Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Greg Foss & James Lavish | Bitcoin BlackRock ETF | Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Greg Foss & James Lavish | Bitcoin BlackRock ETF | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:04
Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of Simply
0:07
Bitcoin IRL. I'm extremely excited for this
0:10
episode. I think this is round two of
0:12
having these two macro heavyweight legends of Bitcoin
0:15
Twitter come together and joining us on the show.
0:19
And of course I'm speaking about the one, the only Greg Foss and
0:23
the one, the only James lavish. But before we jump into the
0:25
show. I want to give you a quick shout
0:27
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visit Swan Bitcoin today. All right guys, no more delay.
0:45
I want to bring up these two legends on stage.
0:48
How you doing gentlemen? How are you, Nico?
0:51
Good to see you. Likewise, likewise.
0:54
I've seen this. I've seen this guy already this
0:56
morning on the call, so. We're getting our quota in,
1:03
actually. I was told the UDI was supposed
1:04
to be on. I didn't realize it was James
1:06
Lavish. I thought it was Udi.
1:08
I I switched it up. You would have you would have
1:11
cancelled. Greg.
1:13
Greg would have just dropped off.
1:14
The guys are egging me on to do the hockey barn thing again, so
1:18
no, I don't think. I don't think I'll do that.
1:21
Oh man. Well gentlemen I'm I'm really
1:24
excited to to to have you guys on the show.
1:27
Normally I would ask some of my questions, but I actually had
1:30
some fans that had questions for you too.
1:33
So first one is from buddy of mine Hurley and said RFK
1:38
recently revealed at the Heal the deal healed healed the
1:42
Divide pack event his vision for returning to a hard currency
1:46
standard in the US. He said his plan would be to
1:49
start gradually backing the US dollar with hard currency like
1:52
gold, platinum and Bitcoin. What are your thoughts on this
1:56
kind of narrative seeping into the mainstream and what do you
1:59
think his chances are of being successful implementing this in
2:01
the election? And I just want to kind of add
2:03
to that as well. I think he said that he would
2:06
take away capital gains tax for Bitcoin also.
2:11
So it was a it was a very big announcement, of course.
2:14
As a bitcoiner, I'm skeptical of politicians, but I'm very
2:16
curious what What do your guys think?
2:18
What are your guys thoughts on on his announcement?
2:22
Well, I mean, like I'm with you. I'm skeptical of politicians.
2:25
I've seen we've lived it here so many times where politician
2:31
promised something and of course, you know, and there's
2:34
there's enough red tape that it just doesn't happen often.
2:38
And that's that's the problem. It's it's a positive.
2:42
For for our system but it's also a problem in in in that you know
2:47
he's hitting the the nail on the head that our system has an
2:52
issue with the way the money works the central bank system
2:55
and the printing money and and we have no basis for our for our
3:00
Fiat currency. This is something that Greg and
3:02
I talked about all the time. It's just there's nothing of
3:05
value except the backing of it and the the the belief in it
3:08
and. For for us to actually go and
3:11
switch over to, you know, back to a standard where you have
3:17
your currency actually attached to something like the bricks
3:21
have been talking about, it's a, it's a major undertaking and
3:26
quite honestly there's not a lot of incentive for the system to
3:30
change. And so you have both the red
3:32
tape. And little incentive for them to
3:35
do this. So as much as I love to hear it
3:38
and and I love to to see it happen where we we do switch
3:42
over to a a Bitcoin specifically back currency.
3:48
It's a pretty long road and for a four year term for somebody
3:53
that that's a that's a long pot. Now that said I do appreciate
3:57
the fact that he's putting himself out there.
4:00
You know, this is not a this will not be a popular narrative
4:03
in the circles he runs in. So it's it's interesting to say
4:07
the least. 100% and and by the way, Greg and I saw the picture
4:12
with you and RFK, I think it was on Sailors vote.
4:15
So how's the man? Hold up, hot on the goo says I
4:19
need to take TRR to RTT or something to do with I have too
4:22
much, too low to testosterone, My tits are too big.
4:26
So fuck you hot on the goo. But I still love you, kid.
4:30
Look, at the end of the day, let's start talking about what
4:34
was announced. The currency isn't going to be
4:38
really backed by Bitcoin. They're going to put 1% of
4:41
Bitcoin on the Federal Reserve balance sheet.
4:44
OK, very clear. So that's 1% more than they have
4:47
already. But it's not a big number in
4:50
terms of percentages, in terms of the size of the balance
4:53
sheet. It's monumental.
4:55
So if everybody in the world. About 1% of their net worth in
5:00
Bitcoin. The price of Bitcoin would be at
5:04
least fifty $500,000 US per Bitcoin.
5:10
Because 1% of global financial assets of 900 trillion is 9
5:15
trillion dollars, $9 trillion / 21 million coins is, you know
5:21
45450 thousand to 500,000, basically the market cap of
5:27
gold. At 10 trillion, 9 to $10
5:30
trillion. So it's big.
5:32
It's really big. But it ain't backing the
5:35
currency per se. The narrative is important
5:39
though. The narrative is it's replacing
5:42
sovereign debt as global reserve asset.
5:48
OK, that is the narrative. Everybody missed the narrative.
5:53
The narrative is sovereign bonds.
5:57
Our program to debase and if you want to hold a valuable asset on
6:02
your balance sheet, you hold the hardest asset ever created
6:07
called Bitcoin. And you can also throw in a
6:09
little bit of silver. And to make Larry Lapard happy,
6:12
you'll put a little bit of gold in there too.
6:14
And you know, what you put might put some of my mom's fine China
6:17
in there and maybe a piece of fine art, you know?
6:20
It's also a hard asset. It's the concept.
6:23
It's the narrative. This is fucking huge.
6:27
Is he going to win? Probably not.
6:30
But the narrative is getting out there.
6:33
Central banks need to hold hard assets, not soft assets.
6:38
What are soft assets? Bonds.
6:41
What are hard assets? Gold.
6:46
Silver. Commodities.
6:48
Oil. The best one?
6:50
Bitcoin. Giddy up.
6:53
I love that. Always great to have Greg on the
6:56
show. Always fire.
6:58
I love that idea. And I want to get James thoughts
7:02
on that. It's the cat's out of the bag,
7:04
so to speak. The narrative, right?
7:07
Hard assets versus this Fugazi that, you know, they're used to
7:11
holding anyways. And then you could make the
7:14
argument that that's responsible for all this chaos and also.
7:18
Taking the opportunity away from the younger generations, I would
7:21
say you know the whole system is is is just messed up Anyways
7:25
James, do you do you have a follow up to Greg's excellent
7:30
statement? Yeah, I know it.
7:32
It's a it's a perfect point you know that's that's the issue and
7:36
we saw over last year when when Russia invaded Ukraine and we
7:41
turned off their their ability to to use the SWIFT system we.
7:46
We seize their assets. We seize their treasuries.
7:48
I mean that's why you're hearing BRICS, the the BRICS countries
7:53
that that coalition talk about moving away from the US
7:58
Treasury's global reserve asset because they need to have
8:01
something they can have control of.
8:03
And that's where they're talking about creating a currency that
8:06
is backed by gold. Do they, are they ultimately
8:10
successful? No, but the Greg is 100% right.
8:13
The narrative is out there. You know, there was a massive,
8:17
massive misstep by us to to use, to weaponize the US dollar in
8:25
the Treasury against a country. And so as much as we need
8:28
everyone to use Treasuries and to use dollars, it was a major
8:32
problem. It was a major misstep.
8:33
And so that's the narrative hold something that has actually has
8:37
value hard assets and there's nothing harder than Bitcoin.
8:41
Amen. And I I think that will you know
8:43
I think that will be that will continue to become more and more
8:46
apparent and it's it's not only RFK Junior right you had you had
8:51
Ron DeSantis governor of Florida you know vocally came out
8:55
against you know their their new scheme which are the CBDC's and
9:00
I I I think that the CBDC's are response to Bitcoin and I think
9:03
the CBDC's are their hopes or their their Hail Mary.
9:08
Of wanting to keep that privilege, of being able to
9:11
create money for free that everyone else has to work for.
9:15
And Ron DeSantis made it illegal in Florida, right.
9:19
And you have and shout out to you, Greg, you have some
9:22
Canadian politicians. I saw Pierre polyvirus speech at
9:27
the rodeo in Calgary. Amazing city by the way.
9:32
So, so yeah. So he's.
9:33
In I didn't see. Mean.
9:35
So I I'm not even aware What did Poyev say?
9:37
He said that he will ban cabinet members from holding from trying
9:42
to pass a CBDC in Canada and he was also at very at very he was
9:49
very favorable towards Bitcoin as well, yeah.
9:53
Well, let's just say that he he has a Direct Line to one of my
9:59
favorite bitcoiners in Canada. And I'll leave it at that.
10:03
And it's not me. Okay.
10:05
I I I love myself, but the the direct line's not to me.
10:08
All right. So he's got some good some good
10:12
back office support in his. Now there is a Canadian
10:17
bitcoiner who's in his party and his name is Ben Lobb LOBB.
10:24
He's the member of Parliament for an area called Huron Bruce,
10:29
which happens to own or. Operate Canada's largest nuke
10:34
and Ben Lobb is dismayed that there are times when we as
10:38
Canadians don't sell power cheaply to Americans.
10:44
We pay them to take our power Okay.
10:47
I need to repeat that this nuke has so much capacity and not the
10:51
transmission ability out of the nuclear generator To the rest of
10:56
Canada. There are transmission lines
10:58
that go down to the northern peninsula of Michigan.
11:01
And when there's not enough base load demand in Canada and the
11:07
nuke is still spinning, we pay Americans to take our.
11:13
Power. Yeah.
11:13
It's, it's important. Yeah.
11:15
But Greg, and you're, you're an engineer.
11:16
Maybe you can tell people and explain to people why you can't
11:20
just why, why that that energy build up in a nuclear reactor
11:25
can be dangerous. The dangerous like a fuse box.
11:28
Dangerous like, you know, a piece of kindling.
11:31
Dangerous because when you're generating energy and it can't
11:35
be distributed or dispersed, things go kaboom.
11:40
So you got to pay our friendly Americans to take the power
11:44
again, We don't give it to you guys cheaply.
11:48
Ask you for a nominal amount. We pay you to take our power.
11:52
Don't you think we should probably have a Bitcoin liner?
11:56
And Ben Law was at the Canadian Bitcoin Conference in Toronto ON
12:01
sitting on a panel with none other than the nuclear
12:05
bitcoiner, A Canadian who works in Churchill Falls, Manitoba or
12:11
somewhere up there where Canada leads the world in this specific
12:15
reactor called Can do and the DU stands for Dutrium uranium or
12:21
something like that. Canada Dutrium Uranium.
12:25
And we're world leaders in this shit.
12:27
And if we could get our acting gear and mine Bitcoin on the
12:32
surplus energy from the can do reactors or on small modular
12:36
reactors, holy moly, it's not simple.
12:41
It's really. So anyway bullish on nuclear
12:45
mining, yes, thank you. That was that you Nikko that
12:47
sent that out. So I'm trying to read the the
12:49
things, yes, we're bullish on nuclear.
12:51
Mining, that was Opti, that was Opti.
12:54
OK Akti, thanks brother. Listen, a swan Bitcoin show to
12:59
Alex Stancic had a really good cafe Bitcoin the other day where
13:05
they brought on Tara Wolf, right?
13:07
Tara Wolf is behind the meter nuclear mining, 2 cents a kWh
13:13
long term power contract, Bitcoin mining in conjunction
13:17
with nuclear energy capacity. Allows your cap, your your IRR
13:26
or your return on investment to be decreased over a period.
13:31
That typically takes 30 years. I mean you know how expensive it
13:34
is to construct a nuclear reactor.
13:36
It takes about 30 years for you to get your return on investment
13:40
back. But when you add in Bitcoin
13:44
mining to balance the base load and to provide incremental
13:50
revenue, your ROI. Increases and your time, your
13:55
payback period decreases. So I don't know guys, I mean,
14:00
you know that I love mathematics.
14:02
I just wish wish more people would understand mathematics.
14:06
And by the way, nuclear energy is quite clean, it's quite
14:12
reliable. And there's this thing called
14:15
the trilemma, right? For energy it can be cheap.
14:21
It can be reliable, or it can be clean and you can't have all
14:27
three so cheap and clean. That's solar.
14:34
It's bullshit. It's not reliable.
14:37
You can have clean and you can have reliable.
14:43
That's fucking nuclear. But it isn't cheap.
14:47
Okay. And then you can have.
14:50
I guess. What's the top one?
14:51
It's cheap and reliable. That's Russia.
14:57
Don't fucking work, OK, Cheap and reliable.
15:00
That's fucking communism. OK, so you can't have you can
15:04
only have two, but you can't have three.
15:06
OK, so that's the trilemma of energy.
15:09
It sounds like Bitcoin fixes this, and I completely agree.
15:13
Before Bitcoin, there was no buyer of last resort, right?
15:17
Just. You know, and I think a lot of
15:19
people have this misconception, and I honestly blame the legacy
15:22
media for a lot of this, right? Where it's like Bitcoin uses
15:25
more energy than the country of Denmark.
15:27
But they don't tell you the nuance.
15:29
What energy is it using? It's using stranded energy
15:33
because if it wasn't stranded energy, it wouldn't be
15:36
economical for the miners to use it in the first place.
15:40
And by the way, let's call it out for what it is.
15:43
It's more important than the the country of Denmark as well, OK,
15:47
you guys, fuck off. OK, Like just fuck off.
15:50
If you don't understand that there's some countries in the
15:53
world that are less important than Bitcoin, you got to
15:56
understand the GDP and the and the construct of what Bitcoin is
16:01
bringing to the world. I love Dutch hockey players and
16:04
Dutch Figure skaters and. Dutch, now the speed skaters.
16:07
The speed skaters are pretty phenomenal.
16:09
Speed skaters are fucking amazing.
16:11
But listen. Bitcoin's more important than
16:14
all of them, and perhaps not as important as the farmers in
16:18
Netherlands, but you know, they don't seem to matter in the
16:22
Netherlands. They're just going to plow all
16:24
those fields over and you know, create immigrant fucking housing
16:30
instead of farming. Like.
16:32
I mean, come on guys, you got to do the math and Bitcoin is.
16:38
More important, in many small countries in the world, why?
16:41
Cuz it's gonna add way more GDP, global GDP than that individual
16:47
company country is gonna add. 100%, And I just wanna mention
16:52
this by the way, Greg, cuz you said that comment about Denmark,
16:55
that hashtag that we put on screen for audio listeners.
16:58
This is Unplug Denmark. Is a hashtag that Opti came up
17:01
during the live show and I actually gave him crap for that.
17:05
But now that you've said it, Opti, I was wrong and you were
17:08
right. I think I said that OK, sorry.
17:10
Was it Denmark or Netherlands? Denmark.
17:12
Doesn't matter. I always heard it was
17:13
Netherlands. It was Denmark.
17:15
The media is even. Worse.
17:17
Well, OK, I've heard Netherlands.
17:20
Denmark is still even bigger. Rounding error.
17:22
Like, fuck off you guys. Like it's Canada.
17:25
Doesn't matter. Pretend.
17:26
If Canada matters, you're losing your mind.
17:29
There's only a few countries in the world that matter, so
17:32
Bitcoin shouldn't be more important than like the USA.
17:36
But it certainly is important. More important than 150 of the
17:40
170 Fiat countries out there. That I guarantee you, and so
17:45
therefore it should use more energy.
17:47
Yeah, and and and so there's that, there's that argument, and
17:51
then there's the the. Again, Bitcoin isn't using.
17:57
You can't set up a mining operation in New York City.
18:00
It's not economical. Bitcoin miners are gonna go to
18:04
where there's cheap energy, and if there's cheap energy, it's
18:06
because it's there's excess. There's an excess capacity,
18:10
right. Anyways, James.
18:13
I want to pivot and I want to ask you this question.
18:15
I want to take advantage of the fact that you guys are both here
18:17
because this was a huge news and you guys have a tremendous
18:21
amount of experience between both you guys here.
18:24
I hear Foss in my head when I wake up in the morning 30 years
18:27
in a wrist chair. But anyways, so OK, what are
18:32
your guys thoughts on BlackRock, the BlackRock ETF?
18:36
It is it because I had Larry, I had Larry and Caitlin long on
18:41
yesterday? And Caitlyn Lawn basically said
18:44
that she's like, it's a big knock, it's a big nothing
18:46
burger. And I'm like, why is it big
18:47
nothing burger? She's like because I'm afraid of
18:50
rehypothecation. So I want to get your guys
18:52
thoughts on that. Like what are your guys thoughts
18:54
on the BlackRock ETF? James, I'll start with you.
18:56
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a. A risk long term the
19:00
rehypothecation you know using that that asset to to to then
19:05
lend out and and you know we've seen issues in the in the big
19:11
banks this for gold for instance you know it it it's been a
19:15
problem but. Short term look the institutions
19:20
are coming. There's it's just reality.
19:22
It's what it is they're they're they're coming for Bitcoin that
19:25
they're getting more comfort around it.
19:27
They're getting more understanding around it and they
19:29
they the really the the big thing is that you have massive
19:34
amount of of consumer interest around Bitcoin in particular.
19:40
And that along with the, the sightline of getting some sort
19:45
of regulatory clarity around it is giving these big companies
19:49
comfort that they they can get into it.
19:52
It lowers their personal risk, that lowers their reputational
19:56
risk. You know, and they they can,
19:59
they can get on board and start offering this.
20:01
When BlackRock has an ETF, it's not going to be BlackRock
20:04
buying. It's not going to just be
20:05
BlackRock and their funds buying it, they're going to be offering
20:08
it. As a as an ETF to the street,
20:11
which means that the important part about this and this is the
20:16
part that everybody kind of you know focuses on and it is
20:19
important is that it's an easy on ramp for investors who have
20:25
not been able to get into the space yet to to to to be able to
20:30
buy Bitcoin without worrying about all of the issues that
20:34
come with. Buying Bitcoin, if you're in a
20:37
small institution, what's a small institution?
20:39
Well, that's like a small family office or midsize family office
20:44
that doesn't have the capability or the the, you know, they don't
20:47
have the comfort around custoding their own Bitcoin,
20:51
their asset. And so as fiduciaries managing
20:55
this family office of money, they can't just go out buy
20:58
Bitcoin and then let it sit at Coinbase and feel comfortable
21:02
around it. You know they.
21:04
Or they can't go and buy it and then self custody it, put it in
21:08
in a wallet and feel comfort around that themselves.
21:12
It feels too risky to them. They don't understand it well
21:14
enough to do that and there's a lot of hurdles to get over that
21:18
when you're an institution and I've, I've talked through this
21:21
before, you have to go through a a chain of of approvals in order
21:27
to buy Bitcoin as a separate asset class.
21:31
What do I mean by that? Well.
21:34
You you, you start out with a portfolio manager who has
21:36
interest in this saying. One of the analysts comes and
21:39
brings a portfolio manager this. This idea says Bitcoin shows
21:43
them all of the the sharp ratios, how it lowers the long
21:47
term risk of the portfolio, raises the risk reward of the
21:49
portfolio and it's compelling and they understand it as a
21:53
separate asset class. And the bit and the and the
21:55
portfolio manager says, OK that's great.
21:57
I I understand it. I want to buy it.
21:59
So what does he do? He goes to the chief investment
22:02
officer and says, I think we should be buying Bitcoin.
22:05
And the CIO says, well, whoa, wait, wait, wait.
22:08
There's a lot of risk around that.
22:09
You've seen what what has happened with this the the
22:12
meltdowns of these exchanges, the fraud the, you know,
22:15
nefarious activity. We we've got to pump the brakes
22:18
here. Let's go through the the proper
22:20
approvals and and make sure that we're doing this the right way.
22:24
When he finally gets on board and he understands it and he
22:27
says OKIII believe I I agree with you, we should do this.
22:31
Well, then they've got to get their compliance on board.
22:34
And compliance means their chief compliance officer or their
22:37
their general counsel. And that means that they've got
22:39
to get everything in order. Who's going to buy it?
22:42
Where is it going to settle? How are they going to pay for
22:45
it? Where are they going to custody
22:47
it? Who's going to be control, the
22:48
keys and the custody of it. Those are all the things they've
22:50
got to get. It takes.
22:52
A massive amount of brain power and time to get through all of
22:56
that red tape to get the approvals for these institutions
22:59
to finally do it. So when you have small family
23:02
offices, registered investment advisors, the RIA's that want to
23:06
buy it for their their their clients that want to buy it for
23:08
their customers, they can't because their hands are tied.
23:12
They literally cannot do it. But when a ETF comes out, that's
23:15
a spot ETF that's actually has the underlying asset that's
23:18
attached to it. That's easy.
23:20
They can go on the New York Stock Exchange or a NASDAQ, buy
23:23
it, settle it at their their prime broker done it's in their,
23:26
it's in their client's account, it makes it in in a huge
23:31
superhighway on ramp for that kind of capital.
23:34
That's that's the front end of it.
23:36
The back end Greg, you can talk about rehypoplication and some
23:40
of the dangers that can come with it, but that's the front
23:42
end of it in my opinion and Greg?
23:45
OK, yeah, that's great. Here's.
23:49
Everything James says, summarized in one I guess it's a
23:55
word. It's called QSIP, and every
23:59
single financial asset in the world has a QSIP if it's traded
24:04
by an institution. But Bitcoin doesn't have a QSIP
24:09
in the United States. And to put a QSIP on Bitcoin via
24:14
a BlackRock ETF that does all the things that Jane talked to
24:17
James talks about. Actually allows Bitcoin to be
24:21
integrated into the portfolios of these institutions so that
24:27
it's simple to monitor. It's simple to isolate your
24:32
risk, measure your risk, put it in something called
24:35
nakamotoportfolio.com which is Alpha Zeta Swan Bitcoins CIO
24:41
about how it's going to improve their portfolio returns.
24:47
At the same time as decreasing portfolio risk, I mean, that's
24:50
the optimal thing, right? So that's all everything, James
24:55
says. So yes, that's true.
24:57
Okay, Rehypothecation. Has anyone ever audited the
25:04
total supply of gold? No, you can't.
25:08
There's so much gold out there. That people don't even know
25:12
whether it's actually tungsten painted gold or how much gold is
25:16
in Fort Knox. That you can rehypothecate this
25:21
blind Ledger easily to the point where JPMorgan is some something
25:26
like short more than, I don't know, I saw something like close
25:30
to 75% of the market cap of gold via the GLD like OK, that's
25:38
rehypothecation. In pure buying and selling
25:43
lending, assuming all the Black Rock shares ETF's were
25:48
borrowable, you could lend out 100% of the Black Rock ETF.
25:55
Okay if all of the shares were borrowable, which means there's
25:59
two times the supply in the Black Rock ETF, but that's it
26:05
because it is auditable. To the Bitcoin that Black Rock
26:11
has to hold on their balance sheet, that is real Bitcoin.
26:16
It's not fake Bitcoin, So I am not concerned about
26:21
rehypothecation. Yes, it will happen, but
26:24
compared to the other advantages of creating on RAMPS, that'll
26:29
eventually lead to self custody of Bitcoin When these guys
26:33
figure out that's the way to hold your keys, I'm quite
26:37
bullish on it. I'm so bullish that I'm going to
26:40
tell you how much Bitcoin is going to how much demand is
26:45
going to flow into the US market in Bitcoin.
26:49
You want to know the #50 billion.
26:54
Why? Because in Canada, where we're
26:57
110th the size of the USA, 5 billion flowed into the market.
27:06
50 billion. Yeah.
27:07
And I would say, I would say that's even that's even
27:10
pessimistic, right Greg, because the US market has buyers from
27:15
all over the world that are are focused on on holding assets
27:19
here in U.S. dollars because they want to own dollars, right,
27:23
so. That's that being said, there
27:24
was also James, sorry to interrupt, there was also US
27:26
buyers of the. Sure.
27:27
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
27:29
Absolutely. So look, I'm trying to be a big
27:32
shot here. I've had a long day.
27:35
You know, like it's 5:00 PM. I haven't even had my first
27:39
Molson yet. This is getting tough to to sit
27:42
through this for, And I love Caitlin Long, by the way.
27:45
She is absolutely a rock star, but I perhaps disagree with her
27:50
on this point. I think the positives far
27:53
outweigh the negatives. I wonder what Larry Lepard said.
27:58
What did Larry say? Larry.
28:00
Larry was also Larry's Larry Loves gold, right?
28:05
And he was a bit. He was also not as much as
28:07
Caitlyn, but by the way, for anyone who's.
28:10
He's too polite. He's too polite.
28:11
He just didn't want to disagree with Caitlyn.
28:14
He gets it. Gold is a farcical Ledger
28:17
compared to Bitcoin. OK, yeah.
28:20
The thing with gold is he could just issue paper, issue paper,
28:23
issue paper. You don't have to actually have
28:24
it audited like you do. And you know the.
28:26
Correct. 21 million Bitcoin guys.
28:29
And if all of the Bitcoin in the whole world were borrowable,
28:34
there'd be 42 million. OK, that's not all going to be
28:39
borrowable because most of the Bitcoin is toughed away.
28:44
That's how it works. Okay.
28:46
I'm so sorry. Like, I guess I shouldn't have,
28:49
you know, had that extra TRT injection or whatever fucking
28:52
Hottel Magoo wanted me to do, so, you know?
28:57
Oh. Man, by the way, guys, for
28:59
anyone who's interested and curious as to why the The
29:02
Caitlin and Larry episode is prerecorded, So that drops on
29:05
Saturday. So this is a the pre show.
29:09
Before that show. Anyways gentlemen okay
29:12
interesting you guys feel bullish about the BlackRock ETF.
29:16
I do, I do as well. But I also look at BlackRock and
29:21
their support of the whole ESG thing for a very long time.
29:25
Also we know that Larry Fink had his thoughts on on on Bitcoin
29:31
saying basically it was just. For money laundering and it's
29:34
just funny because on CNNBCA couple days ago and I'm sure you
29:37
gentlemen have seen this video, he's like this is going to
29:39
become an international asset and I was like holy crap I can't
29:43
believe we are here in the movie.
29:45
So anyways I want to get your guys thoughts on that.
29:48
It's good for James. Yeah.
29:51
Go for it. It's good for business, but go
29:52
ahead. Yeah.
29:56
Black So BlackRock endorsing a Bitcoin ETF?
30:02
Essentially throws out their ESG narrative against Bitcoin.
30:09
And in fact, did you guys see the MIT study that showed how
30:12
valuable Bitcoin is to the environment, actually Bitcoin
30:16
mining rather. So I think.
30:18
I think that the Black Rock endorsement of a Bitcoin ETF
30:23
doesn't mean they have abandoned ESG, it just means that they
30:27
don't believe Bitcoin is ESG unfriendly.
30:32
I don't know. I never thought it was ESG
30:34
unfriendly. A lot of New York Times and
30:36
Greenpeace knuckleheads think it is, but it isn't because they
30:40
haven't done the work. And then what was the second
30:43
one? The first one was ESG.
30:44
What was the second one? The second one was he said that
30:48
Bitcoin is in. This was in 2018.
30:51
Money laundering, yes. Yeah.
30:53
Money laundering. OK, come on guys.
30:55
Let's remember what the biggest currency in money laundering is
30:58
in the world, and I'll leave it there.
31:00
Over to you, James. Yeah, it's true.
31:02
Yeah. I mean like he knows the the
31:05
reason they're saying this because they have customers who
31:07
want it. You know, they know, they
31:09
understand the what I just said that it's extraordinarily
31:14
difficult and it takes a very long time for all of like if
31:17
you're an RIA, if you're a registered investment advisor,
31:20
you've been wanting to buy. I've talked to RI A's who are
31:22
like. I want to buy Bitcoin.
31:24
I cannot do it for my for my clients.
31:28
I can't do it because I I don't have the function to do it in a
31:33
way that I can prove I I've. I've fulfilled my fiduciary duty
31:39
for them and and so he understands that and and we're
31:43
getting to the point now where it's just undeniable and when
31:47
we're at that point well. They're going to push the SEC
31:51
over the edge and they're going to, they're going to get to a
31:54
spot where the SEC has no choice but to concede and say, OK, you
31:59
you fulfilled the requirements for oversight.
32:03
You can use Coinbase as the custodian.
32:06
And we're going to, we're going to go ahead and and move forward
32:08
with this. And at that point, it's like
32:11
Greg said, the floodgates open and you're going to have $50
32:14
billion pour in. And that to me is going to be
32:16
the start. The start of what, James?
32:21
The start of you, that's right NGU.
32:25
Yeah and you know I mean it's it's going to be the part where
32:29
the IT becomes a separate asset class that you that every
32:35
institution has absolutely no argument against allocating to
32:40
and and what what Greg had pointed to before the the
32:45
Nakamoto portfolio. This is really important in in
32:50
for people understand is you could plug in Bitcoin in any
32:54
type of portfolio and see where it pushes your portfolio out on
32:59
that risk reward curve and enhances virtually anything any
33:04
type of portfolio you've owned since Bitcoin was created and
33:07
that's it's super important and once portfolio managers they
33:11
they grab on to this. They're not going to let go, and
33:14
it will be a an allocation that will take the place of an
33:19
allocation to bonds. Period.
33:21
Yeah and and it's also shout out to Hoffa.
33:24
For yeah, Hoffa is amazing. Can I just say, James, 100%
33:28
agree, Yeah, that isn't that cool, the Schrodinger model and
33:31
and everything. But 100% agree that it it, it
33:37
should come the allocation should come from the.
33:42
Bond portfolio won't replace bonds, right?
33:45
I mean most of the world's largest asset class I I you know
33:47
that. I just want to make sure viewers
33:49
understand. Let's play some mathematics.
33:51
Okay. If total global financial debt
33:57
is 400 trillion and 1% of that debt got allocated to Bitcoin,
34:06
that's 4 trillion of allocation. Which is four times the size, oh
34:14
excuse me, no, about 8 times the size of the current market of
34:18
Bitcoin. That's 1% of the allocation of
34:22
the total global debt. Wow.
34:25
This is why the numbers are so asymmetric.
34:28
Okay and. And yeah, and remember, we've
34:31
talked, we've talked about it before there.
34:33
There's only a handful of funds who who control $30 trillion of
34:40
assets, right? And BlackRock is one of them,
34:43
right. So you've got BlackRock,
34:44
Vanguard, UBS, Fidelity and I think State Street, Morgan
34:48
Stanley are kind of like right on top of each other.
34:50
But that's $30 trillion of assets right there.
34:54
Between them. So BlackRock gets on board,
34:57
Fidelity gets on board, State Street gets on board.
35:01
When they allocate separately to this, it, it behooves everybody
35:05
to you. You can't have your neighbor,
35:07
portfolio manager, look, hedge funds all talk to each other.
35:10
That's why it's so difficult for hedge funds to make money these
35:13
days. It's because they're all in the
35:14
same trades, You know, they're all on top of each other.
35:17
And so when you have these, when you have.
35:21
Asset managers that are so big that are getting into it on the
35:24
front end here, then you have not just the asset managers
35:29
looking at it as a separate allocation, but then you also
35:33
have the treasuries of these large corporations looking at
35:37
it. And whether it's Microsoft or
35:39
it's Apple or whoever, they can't deny it anymore.
35:42
They're going to have to consider it.
35:44
And once they start considering it, they're going to have to
35:46
consider it. You know in their own terms and
35:49
just and ignore all the the nonsense and the noise from the
35:54
media and and dig into it as a separate asset allocation
35:57
themselves because it's it's that important to them to
36:01
protect their own capital and that's what's important here.
36:05
Yeah and and and you know and I. So and I agree with you with
36:10
with you gentlemen. The next cycle I believe this is
36:14
going to happen because. I think we're going to reach a
36:17
point where on the public company level at Michael
36:22
Saylor's big bet is going to be like it's going to be undeniable
36:26
at that point that he made the right decision.
36:28
And then on the nation state level also with Nambukele's
36:33
decision with El Salvador, it's going to become undeniable.
36:36
There's no amount of legacy media spin, New York Times
36:40
doctoring photos and all of that stuff that is.
36:44
Is going to be able to offusegate what what to use
36:48
Greg's words what the math is. So, so yeah, I'm I'm really,
36:53
really excited for the next cycle.
36:55
Now I want to get you guys thoughts on this.
36:57
I believe the last cycle was cut short for two reasons.
37:01
I think that a lot of paper Bitcoin was being sold with FTX
37:06
and all that stuff that was going on there, but I also
37:08
believe with the primary reason. Is the CCP mining band and that
37:14
literally happened in the middle of the last Bitcoin bull run.
37:19
And you'll see the hash rate and the price literally directly
37:22
correlated as if they're tied together.
37:24
And I believe it brought down the price because those miners
37:27
needed to sell Bitcoin in order to relocate to more friendlier
37:30
jurisdictions. So I guess my question is.
37:34
Do you believe in the theory of the diminishing returns theory?
37:38
Are are are you know the best opportunities for Bitcoin behind
37:43
us? Are we still in the beginning
37:46
phases of this? I know Greg, you touched upon
37:48
this earlier, but I just want to get your thoughts on this
37:50
because my belief, my Spidey senses is telling me that I
37:54
think that the next cycle is going to really surprise people,
37:59
maybe not to the downside like last time, but perhaps to the
38:02
upside. Yes.
38:06
Is that enough? No.
38:09
Okay. So yes, I agree with you because
38:13
Bitcoin has to attain a certain market cap in order for it to be
38:18
able to be invested in by the biggest funds in the world.
38:22
Okay. Because if Bitcoin is a micro
38:26
cap asset, the biggest funds in the world can't put.
38:32
One, even 1% of their asset base into it without absolutely
38:39
causing that price to skyrocket. Nor would they want to put even
38:44
less than 1% in, because you probably don't allocate an
38:48
analyst's time to this asset class if you're going to put
38:51
less than a 1% allocation. So you know, I'm not sure if you
38:56
guys know who worth is. He's at WORTH on Twitter.
39:01
I can't remember what his handle is, but he used to be a he's
39:04
from Arkansas portfolio manager, lots of years in the market like
39:09
me, long short equity guy Alex Stancic.
39:13
This is my second shameless plug for Alex, I think on your
39:16
podcast here, Stancic says to me, he goes Foss, what do you
39:20
think the market cap of Bitcoin needs to be in order for it to
39:23
get really big money involved? And I said somewhere around
39:32
where we are right now, 500 billion to up to 4 trillion,
39:37
like once it reaches 4 trillion, all of the biggest accounts in
39:41
the world can get an allocation without materially changing the
39:47
price or more importantly, they can get an analyst's time in
39:53
there to analyze this investment, so.
39:58
My answer was between half a billion.
40:01
I should half a trillion and four trillion worth answered
40:05
with a number if I'm not mistaken, which was 5 trillion.
40:08
And so there's two opinions of people who think that you need
40:12
to attain a certain market size in order for the biggest money
40:16
in the world to get a proper allocation to it for liquidity
40:20
and analysts time and then once they get that allocation.
40:26
They tell two friends and so on and so on.
40:30
And all of a sudden Bitcoin becomes a standard holding in
40:34
all of the portfolios around the world, which allows it to go
40:39
from less than 1% of total global financial assets, right?
40:45
We're at actually at less than 110th of 1% right now.
40:51
It can go from 110th of 1% of total global financial assets.
40:56
Up to 5%? Okay, that's a 50 bagger easily.
41:06
Now you can say, damn, I missed Bitcoin going from 1000 to
41:12
30,000, but guess what? It can still go from 30,000 to
41:17
one and a half million. And it's the same 30 bagger.
41:21
In fact, no, that's a 50 bagger. So.
41:25
It's because the market grows and it's the law of big numbers
41:28
and when the market gets big enough for the big money to get
41:31
in, you can see the same types of returns as you saw when it
41:35
was a micro cap. So I'm not that concerned that
41:40
the biggest returns are behind us.
41:43
What I may say is the volatility will decrease, but I don't think
41:49
the price appreciation opportunity has decreased at
41:53
all. But yeah, maybe the volatility
41:57
has decreased, so that even brings more money into the fold.
42:02
I don't know. Bitcoin doesn't care.
42:05
At the end of the day, it's still so stupid cheap.
42:09
I'm not going to argue whether the last cycle was cut short or
42:12
anything like that because we're dealing with rounding errors
42:15
here. Nico.
42:17
Yeah, someone just said it, 500,000 is cheap.
42:19
It is, because I think it's going to 2 million in today's
42:22
dollars, 2,000,000. Am I right?
42:25
I don't know. But I'm at a high, much higher
42:29
certainty than the market odds are giving me right now that I'm
42:32
gonna be right. So yeah, you can get those
42:36
returns, and that's the asymmetry of the trade or the
42:40
investment, and that's why everybody needs that exposure.
42:43
100% And James, do you want to follow up that?
42:45
Yeah, I mean something that Greg said, I agree with all that, but
42:49
something that he said at the end there that's really
42:52
important is. In today's dollars, in 2
42:56
million, in today's dollars, which we're all dollar centric
43:01
and we're all just thinking about U.S. dollars.
43:02
And I do believe the dollar will be the the last one standing or
43:06
the one of the very last ones standing.
43:09
But something else to think about is it's not just U.S.
43:13
dollars that this is you know, we're think about the people in
43:16
Venezuela who are experiencing what eighty 100% inflation, you
43:20
know. Think about the people in in in
43:24
Lebanon who can't even get their money out of the bank.
43:27
You know, I don't think they're not thinking about this as a
43:30
trade or an investment. This is like a lifeline for
43:32
them. They need to be able to have an
43:35
asset that they can they can hold on to take with them
43:40
anywhere in the world and it's still retain its value for the
43:44
work that they've that they've put into the world.
43:48
They've been compensated for that.
43:50
They need to be able to to keep that.
43:52
It's completely unfair for them not to and so this gives them
43:55
that that ability. So in their terms, I mean the
44:01
the the best returns may still be ahead for them.
44:05
Yeah. Yeah.
44:08
Wow. And you guys have me feeling
44:10
really, really bullish right now anyways.
44:13
All right, gentlemen. So we talked about BlackRock.
44:17
We talked about. We talked about the idea of the
44:21
diminishing returns theory. Now I want to talk about
44:24
something that goes both, both up.
44:27
Both of you guys are special. You guys are you guys are
44:31
specialists in the in this concept, right.
44:33
And this is a question that I always get from some of our
44:36
viewers and it's this concept of of the debts at the the debt
44:40
spiral. Are we seeing it play out in
44:42
real time? Even with, you know, socalled
44:46
Conservative government in the United States, they couldn't
44:49
help themselves but to, you know raise the debt ceiling once
44:53
again. So it to me and remember like
44:56
the whole put the whole political charade because it was
44:59
like, no, we're, you know, we're going to stand our ground.
45:02
We're going to not do anything. But I'm looking at it from the
45:06
outside in and of course, I'm not as experienced as you 2
45:10
gentlemen and I'm like, this is a joke.
45:13
They I don't think they have a choice but to they don't have a
45:16
choice but not to to raise the debt ceiling, because if they
45:19
don't raise the debt ceiling, the whole system collapses upon
45:22
upon itself. I want to get your guys's
45:24
thoughts. Nico, here's a secret.
45:26
There is no debt ceiling. That's the secret and everybody.
45:31
James James is going to have a great answer, so I'm going to go
45:34
even more quickly. OK, see The funny thing is.
45:40
Debt or interest expense compounds right?
45:43
And therefore it's what's called an exponential function.
45:47
I need you guys to do some math here with me.
45:50
An exponential function looks like this, right?
45:53
It's a parabola. And why is it an exponential
45:56
function? Because the present value, or
45:59
excuse me, the future value is calculated as the present value.
46:04
Times 1 + r, which is the discount rate or the 10 year
46:08
U.S. Treasury rate for a number to
46:11
the power of N, the number of years that this has grown.
46:16
So when you have something to the power of N, you fucking
46:19
knuckleheads, that's called an exponential function.
46:23
And exponential function looks like that, which means the debt
46:29
was growing on a relative basis the same.
46:33
In the past, it's just that the debt burden was so much smaller.
46:38
Now all of a sudden it's hit a point where the interest expense
46:42
is $1 trillion. That's the number that's opening
46:46
people's eyes. It doesn't matter.
46:50
Yes, it has accelerated because it's called the 2nd derivative,
46:54
the rate of change of change. Okay.
46:57
But it's all mathematics of a debt spiral.
47:01
Because interest expense compounds end of class.
47:06
That's as simple as I can lay it out.
47:09
If you don't understand what I just said, go back to grade 11
47:12
math and listen for a fucking change, OK?
47:15
Mathematics is important. And if you don't understand how
47:20
a debt spiral works, you can become the Prime Minister of
47:22
Canada. Or perhaps Joe Biden.
47:25
OK, because those guys have no clue about exponential
47:28
functions. I am certain of that.
47:31
Christine Lagarde, Christine Lagarde can be put in that camp
47:34
too. So, yeah, and you know the
47:37
answer is, yeah, we're in it. We're already in it.
47:39
There's no, there's no way out. We we just like Greg said, we we
47:43
operate in a perpetual deficit and we have to fund that deficit
47:47
with additional treasuries. And the problem is right now
47:52
we're trying to battle inflation.
47:54
And so you've got the Fed raising rates in order to battle
47:58
inflation. And it's causing the interest
48:01
expense on that debt to go higher.
48:03
And so you have to borrow more money every year in order to pay
48:08
that down. And we've got half the debt is
48:11
it, it's maturing over the next three years or so.
48:17
And so you're seeing the expense just go through the roof and we
48:21
just saw it with what you you talked about.
48:24
Nikko, the the debt ceiling being raised, well what they did
48:27
is they just eliminated it basically and they said okay
48:29
just we're not going to, we're not going to prove any more
48:32
spending. But the treasury can can issue
48:35
as many bonds as they need to cover all of the expenses we
48:37
have which are quite a bit obviously.
48:40
So now the issue is that they're as they issue more debt and they
48:45
had to go back and fill the the, the treasury general account.
48:51
Which was it was down to just just a $30 billion which they
48:55
can spend, you know before we even have our first cup of
48:58
coffee in the morning. Well that that that TGA account
49:03
had come down from about 1/2 a trillion dollars they had to
49:05
fill that back up #1 they had to pay for all the debt that was.
49:10
That was maturing in June #2. They had to pay for all the
49:14
intergovernment tabs that they ran up because they used
49:18
extraordinary measures to avoid tripping the debt ceiling #3.
49:21
So you saw the Treasury issue a trillion dollars worth of debt
49:26
this past month. And so it went from 31 1/2
49:29
trillion to 32 1/2 trillion in in just a few weeks.
49:33
And so why did that happen? Because of what I just said.
49:37
And because of what Greg is saying is that that the cost of
49:40
of doing business for the United States is getting, it's getting
49:43
higher every single year. And so we have to issue more
49:45
debt. And so we're in this spiral that
49:48
we, we, we just can't get out of.
49:50
And so will the US collapse today, tomorrow?
49:54
No. Will we get out of it?
49:57
No. Will we eventually collapse?
49:59
Yes, period. That's just that it, it's just
50:02
no, there's no way around it. There's just too much debt you
50:05
can see. In in my pin tweet, I've got a
50:08
thread of all these different things I've talked about.
50:10
But in that debt spiral 201, the second one I talked about the
50:16
the US Treasury itself put out a chart.
50:21
It was it's a visual and it was in this report that they that
50:25
they issued maybe five or six months ago and it was, it was
50:30
called an unsustainable fiscal path.
50:33
And basically what it's saying is that the Treasury is trying
50:35
to tell Congress that they can't keep issuing debt like this.
50:39
And and yeah, keep going down, it's down a little bit.
50:43
But what? Yeah, keep going, keep going,
50:49
keep there. Yeah, the second one.
50:51
So and in there you'll see that there's a, there's this chart
50:54
and what Greg is talking what this, what's important about
50:56
this is this chart in and of itself is astounding and it's
51:01
it's mind boggling that it. That it's this bad that they
51:05
admit to it. But the important part is that
51:08
this chart just shows a straight line increase.
51:12
Keep going. That's an important one too.
51:13
You can see how it's just growing bigger.
51:15
The deficit's growing bigger, the debt is growing bigger.
51:18
Keep going and then keep going. And then this right there, they
51:24
admit that it's out of control. But that is a straight line.
51:29
And what Greg is talking about and what they don't, what they
51:31
don't admit to, is that line is going to go parabolic.
51:36
And that's the problem. Oh.
51:39
So it's so they're admitting to this already being excuse my
51:43
language, but I'm I'm going to say they're already admitting it
51:47
for this to be an absolute clusterfuck, but this is going
51:50
to be a parabolic clusterfuck. Yeah, that there is.
51:54
That's optimistic. It's not gonna happen like that.
51:57
600% of GDP. Well, it looks good on a graph.
52:04
It actually works. I don't know, I doubt it, but.
52:07
Oh God. You know.
52:09
Oh God. Well, and it all stems by their
52:12
their their ability to print, I know, you know, with the bonds
52:14
and the Fed and all that stuff. But if you just simplify for the
52:18
sake of the show, right, it all stems from their ability to just
52:21
print money. It really stems from that and.
52:25
And that's how they pay for everything.
52:27
And they have basically an Amex with no, it's a kid with an Amex
52:33
with very wealthy parents, and the Amex has absolutely no.
52:36
Remember, remember when you got your first checkbook?
52:39
You may not have cuz you're too young.
52:40
No, no your. First checkbook.
52:42
I'm not that young. I remember.
52:44
I remember I can write checks forever.
52:45
I can buy anything. Yeah, I gotta have the money in
52:49
my account for this. Oh, OK, yeah.
52:52
But you know the the issue here, Nikko, is and here's the here's
52:57
a sobering issue, is we're crowding out the marginal
53:01
balance sheet that can take on this debt.
53:04
That's the problem. And So what you've seen in the
53:07
last month, what we did is we issued about a trillion dollars
53:10
worth of debt and we, we drained a lot of that, the difference
53:16
between the debt that was maturing.
53:19
That number which was three, $400 billion and the the amount
53:25
that they had to issue on top of that.
53:27
So debt matures, investor gets cash back, they plow it into
53:31
more debt, right. But there's still a vig there,
53:33
right? There's a, there's a, there's a
53:35
difference, a delta there between what they need to issue,
53:39
which is a trillion dollars and the amount of debt that was
53:43
maturing that they need to reissue.
53:45
OK, right. So think through that.
53:48
The, the, the debt matures, the Treasury doesn't really have
53:51
enough money to pay for that. So they issue more debt to pay
53:55
for that. And then that debt that matured,
53:58
that investor gets capital back, he plows it into that new debt,
54:02
but they still have more debt that they have to issue.
54:04
So where does it come from? It came from the reverse repo
54:06
market. So they're soaking up that, but
54:09
once that's gone. You know, it's not like China
54:12
and Japan are rushing out there to in Russia or rushing out
54:16
there to to buy our treasuries anymore.
54:18
They're not. And so you've got these balance
54:20
sheets of these corporations and investors worldwide, investors,
54:24
You've got State Street, you've got, you know, CalPERS, you've
54:27
got Texas teachers. Once they can't buy any more
54:30
debt, once they're crowded out, who's going to buy it?
54:34
Well, they're going to print money and buy it.
54:36
They're going to print money, put it at the Fed.
54:38
The Fed's going to go and have the dealers buy it.
54:40
The Fed's going to buy it from the dealers, give them the cash
54:42
that they were just given. And that's it's just a whole
54:45
charade. And that's the way it's going to
54:46
happen until it doesn't. So.
54:50
And it's interesting that you say that, cuz in earlier Greg,
54:55
you said that, you know, treasuries and bonds were always
54:58
going to be a staple. But if we know it's it's, you
55:02
know, it's BS, why do you believe that they're still going
55:05
to play such an essential role? Well, it won't turn off.
55:09
It won't turn off overnight. And secondly, as long as people
55:12
continue to accept the newly printed money as payment for
55:17
their old money, the system continues.
55:19
So I'd like to say that. That printing, quantitative
55:23
quantitative easing, Infinity is the error term that solves the
55:28
debt spiral. Like the debt spiral can go
55:30
forever as long as people accept their debasing currency as
55:35
payment for the maturing debt. OK, and by the way, James is
55:39
totally right. But when you're running an 8%
55:42
annual fiscal deficit, 8% of GDP.
55:46
Is being added each year because that's the fiscal deficit
55:50
because you're not bringing in enough revenues.
55:52
Not only are those old bonds being refinanced with new bonds,
55:57
8% is being added to the deficit because the government has more
56:03
expenditures than it has revenues annually.
56:07
So that means the debt itself will, just without compound
56:11
interest, will double in less than 8 years.
56:15
OK. Or 10 years, rather 8% in 10
56:18
years. So look, Fiat printing is the
56:23
error term that solves the debt spiral, but it's always been the
56:28
error term that solves the debt spiral.
56:31
That is how Fiat Ponzi economics works, and it works for a long
56:37
time in countries like the USA. But in countries like Venezuela,
56:43
people eventually go no more or no Moss.
56:47
I don't accept it anymore and I throw the currency to the corner
56:52
because it's not worth anything to the.
56:55
Curb. Niko, bring up the
56:57
usdebtclock.org. You got it.
57:00
And Scroll down to the bottom. This is the part that Greg likes
57:03
the best. Greg, you want to talk through
57:06
this one? Sure.
57:08
I mean, we're almost at the end of the podcast, but it's a good
57:10
place to end. So usdebtclock.org Okay.
57:13
Pull it up. Nico.
57:14
Yep. I'm working on it.
57:17
There we go. Boom.
57:20
So it's delayed on my screen a second.
57:22
Okay. So you see the top right hand,
57:24
the top left hand side, That's your total national debt right
57:27
there. 32 trillion, right, 32 1/2 trillion.
57:30
It was just 32 trillion. We put on half a trillion
57:33
dollars. In, you know, a couple of months
57:36
here. Yeah, so that's 32 trillion.
57:40
It will be 50 trillion by the year 2033.
57:44
By the way, okay. So that's only mathematics.
57:46
But here's the cool thing. Go down to the bottom right hand
57:49
corner. Nico okay.
57:53
Now expand that that US unfunded liabilities.
57:58
That's the real number of people. $192 trillion that
58:05
people are counting on for Social Security, Medicare and
58:09
Medicaid. And they may get it, but the
58:12
only way they're getting it, I hate to tell you people, is
58:15
they're going to have to print it, which means the value of
58:19
each dollar is going to continue to debase.
58:23
Gen. X will get it, but it's not
58:25
going to be worth anything. And it's not.
58:29
It's it's it may. They may not get it because
58:31
sometime the money printer may break or the world will not take
58:35
that money anymore. But let's assume it does.
58:38
Fiat debasement is 100% certain. So let's not complicate things.
58:43
If you know something is 100% certain, how do you protect
58:47
against it? You own hard assets.
58:51
So real estate, gold, oil, commodities.
58:54
We mentioned that. But what's the best one?
58:57
It's called Bitcoin. It's 6:00 PM Eastern Canadian
59:00
Time right now. I need to run to a dinner.
59:04
I'll let James summarize the simplicity of Grade 11 math for
59:09
you, but I think you get the picture.
59:13
This is the simplest, simplest trade or investment I've ever
59:17
seen in my life. And if you own 0.
59:21
Go become an actor, work on some stupid fucking show and then go
59:25
on CBCNBC and look like a total retread when they say I only had
59:30
to read 20 pages of the Fiat standard to understand why
59:34
Bitcoin matters. And that fucking loser?
59:38
Well, it's called Star City. And Star City.
59:41
He doesn't even understand the difference between the Bitcoin
59:44
and crypto. OK, Ben McKenzie, learn fucking
59:48
mathematics, OK? Decent love from Canada.
59:52
I got to run. Thanks, Greg.
59:55
Appreciate it. James.
59:57
Yeah, that's you want to add to that before we wrap it up.
1:00:00
I'm just, I'm just going to, I'm just going to summarize it.
1:00:03
The only wrong allocation of Bitcoin is 0.
1:00:08
You know, I can't tell you how much you should have because
1:00:11
everybody's different. Every single person's portfolio,
1:00:14
personal situation, income needs, needs for cash is
1:00:18
different. It's a volatile asset.
1:00:20
But you shouldn't. You should have more than 0%.
1:00:23
That's it. Period.
1:00:25
Amen. I think you know it's for for I
1:00:29
think. I think that's conservative for
1:00:32
for my generation I'm you know it's it's for me you're.
1:00:36
Young you could have, you can have, you know, five, 1020% and
1:00:39
still make that up later. It all depends on your risk
1:00:43
profile, your risk appetite and what you what you feel
1:00:45
comfortable with if you're my age.
1:00:47
You know and it just depends on what your what your needs are,
1:00:51
whether you've got the high cost of living, whether you've got
1:00:55
kids you have to pay for, whatever.
1:00:56
So but yeah, I love Greg, he's super colorful and but the point
1:01:02
his points are are rock solid and spot on and that's the
1:01:07
important part. Yeah, and you know, Greg's a
1:01:11
great guy. And so are you, James, and I
1:01:14
really appreciate you joining me today on symptom Bitcoin IRL.
1:01:17
Always an honor and a privilege to have you on the show and I
1:01:21
really, really enjoyed this conversation a lot.
1:01:24
So really appreciate you man. And will I see you at Pacific
1:01:27
Bitcoin? Absolutely.
1:01:29
Yeah, I'm speaking. I don't know when or what, but
1:01:32
yeah, I'll be there. So awesome, 100%.
1:01:34
Thank you for having me. I appreciate you doing this
1:01:38
show, Nico and everything you do.
1:01:40
So appreciate. Thanks guys.
1:01:42
What you're working on, you and your team.
1:01:44
So thank you. I appreciate it.
1:01:47
And of course the show wouldn't be possible without OPT.
1:01:49
James, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
1:01:51
See you in California. Anyways guys, thank you so much
1:01:54
for tuning into simply Bitcoin IRL.
1:01:56
If you enjoyed the show, you know what to do.
1:01:57
Smash that light, but consider subscribing.
1:01:59
And if you feel you know, you could tune into the live show
1:02:02
tomorrow. But until then, peace out guys,
1:02:04
I'll see you later.