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Beyond Words - Oliver James · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, 35-year-old Oliver James from California says he was forgotten in school and was seen as a bad child.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: But it wasn't just in school.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: He says he didn't have that extra push at home either.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Mum was a single mum.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: There was not one book in my house.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, there was nothing.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: There were no books, no magazines.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was just not a priority as his mother tried to survive and support the kids with their basic needs.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: But as the world slowed down during the pandemic, James decided that this would be his chance to learn to read.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: It opened my mind to see if you can grow this little bit in this little time.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine what you can do in a time that you really focused, like getting up every day and spending five years reading.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: You don't know who you're going to be in front of.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he realized that by not being able to read something he'd never learned and had led to a really complex life, a lot of trauma.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: He'd ended up in prison for five years, and he'd struggled on many fronts, and was also deeply ashamed of the fact that he was illiterate and couldn't read or write.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: But when he came out of prison, Oliver James tells his story, and in fact, he's told his story to many and been on many talk shows in the in the States.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because he's an inspiration now thriving on TikTok with thousands of viewers, as he publicly goes on a journey of learning to read himself while teaching others.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Oliver, I'd like to welcome you to the Beyond Words Global Literacy Podcast.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: What you are doing is so inspiring.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me a bit about how you grew up and how it was there were no books, no magazines, and really you weren't exposed to reading at all.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I grew up uh I would say like lower class in a way, you know, but we made it look good.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and truth, it it wasn't much different than the things you've probably seen on TV.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, grew up with a single, single mother who was trying her best to get me to where I needed to get to.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And in that time, she only was able to give me a couple things that she had.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And reading was not one of them.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: She she wasn't a big advocate on reading, she didn't know much about it, I don't think.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And my father didn't either.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like it was something that people were trying to keep from me in my household.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't think my parents have reading abilities as well.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think it's something we discuss.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't discuss it.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: We never talked about it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just something we got by, I think, without it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and my dad wasn't around, my mom was around, but she didn't really push that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And as I went forward in my life, especially like, you know, through the education system, my mom relied on the education system more to try to help me than herself because she could not do it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And she, you know, she relied on the edge, the experts at that time to try to help me out.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it it wasn't their uh responsibility to have to take care of a child, but that was their responsibility to teach me, you know, at least.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they uh they didn't do a good job at teaching me, and uh I ended up put getting put spe placed in a uh special education program where they were allowed to restrain.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I realized that they were allowed to, they were just focusing on behavior.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I knew immediately when they started beating, because it wasn't restraining, they started beating.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it was just a it was a it was a a physical than a than a mental.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it wasn't gonna be much mental going on in there, and I was trying to react to more physical things, not upsetting the teacher, sitting at my desk, don't make noise, don't tap on a desk.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can reiterate all the things.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't make noise, don't tap on your desk, be quiet, head, head up, you know, those same things they just will get me restrained.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Every single one of those things.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about that, from second to fifth grade, those are the things that you're supposed to be learning, like recovery.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so so there was a real focus, which there often is in the education system, unfortunately.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: While you need discipline to some point, you actually, this is an approach of it's punitive rather than, you know, everything's about consequences and punishment and trying to restrain you rather than facilitate you.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And from what you're saying at home, mum was so busy trying to survive, provide, and manage that you didn't have that support at home either.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, it was just an impossible and incongruous thing.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: You couldn't possibly reconcile the two.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: So you find yourself in a school situation, they're thinking you're just a naughty boy who's behaving badly.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And really what you are is is restless, agitated, and clearly highly intelligent from what I can see, you know.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I wish I knew that at eight, but you unfortunately you don't get to find that out until you become old enough to take things on your own.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: But at that time, that wasn't my responsibility.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was the caretakers who had a control over me.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so for you, so really from grade three to grade five, around that time, it was it was just frustrating, endlessly frustrating.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, therefore, your capacity to learn was near impossible.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Not because you weren't intelligent and capable, but because the constructs around you weren't facilitating that.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: And as you say, that's so common.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Those statistics in America, and in fact globally, are quite extraordinary how common this is.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're certainly not alone in that experience.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: So from there, it really was a bit of a the struggle continued.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Would you like to just expand a little bit on what happened next for you?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like everything else you see in um stories or movies, I moved through the school system, you know, as the bad kid, obviously.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And let's just use your imagination what the bad kid would do, you know, talking back, you know, not listening, getting suspended, expelled, all the things the bad kids got.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I got labeled the bad kid all through school.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: By the time I got to middle school, there was no way I could change that label.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was it.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was the bad kid.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was it can't change.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know how to because I got taught to be one.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: They taught me how to be a bad kid, so obviously I only knew how to be one.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: No one was showing me.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: When I was being bad, the teachers beat me.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think I learned in that circumstance when I got beat for being bad in school?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I had no idea what to do by the time I got to my middle school, and I just acted out.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember not having no control over my emotions, no control over my thoughts, no control over anything.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just was mad, angry, misplaced.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone could do things I couldn't do.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Only thing I could do was gym.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Gym and lunch.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, do you know how it just felt so frustrating that gym and lunch were the only things I could do really well, too?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Really well.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was an A student in both of those, but it wasn't the only thing I wanted to be an A student in.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only thing I knew how to do.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if I ran out of class because I was disturbed, you caught me in the gym shooting hoops.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's where you got me because I was comfortable with that space.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if I knew how to read, I probably would have ran to the library.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't know how to read.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I I reckon this is, I think this is really common actually, particularly a lot of young boys as well.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I just feel like at least you found the gym and at least you had some outlet.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: But this this notion of having a label and that lens of being sort of the troublemaker, it's just it just goes nowhere.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's and it's sort of like a really old-fashioned way, isn't it, that the education system responds to people, young kids like yourself.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, you found gym, and as you say, you love lunch, so you're a good eater.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: And and you, you know, gym and lunch, I love that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so from that point on, how long did that label stick?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Was it right through school, or did you start to emerge out of that?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: I know that you can tell us the story, but I know where this led.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So Well, it the label didn't.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up in prison, so I got incarcerated for almost five years, and uh that didn't really do much for me uh uh mentally.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: It it sat me down for a little bit and then made me think about some things, uh, but it didn't do anything for me.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just put more problems on my mind to basically worry about.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: So um five years is not a short time.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's a how old were you?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was 20, 21, I think, 20 or 21.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I got out was about 26, I think, around there, 26.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that is a long time, and they're really pivotal years and and really important years where development is is very, very critical.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, you're put in prison and and it really, you know, as they often they they're trying to rethink some of this now.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: They realize that putting young people in prison for small misdemeanors, I don't know exactly what you're in for, um, whether it was extreme, I don't know.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: That seems a pretty long sentence to me, five years.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my my um my sentence was extreme.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got caught up in some things that honestly I had no idea I could even get caught inside of.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of, I would say, the effect of following that path.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can't escape it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because even honestly, I will be 100% honest with you.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was the kid who wanna drive people around, hang out at the cookout party or whatever.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't about being the troublemaker.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that the fact of the matter is you're a mat around it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you will get caught up eventually.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: It does not matter.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what it's gonna be.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was very, very shocked when I got caught up in what I got caught up into, but then I realized that was your environment.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as much as you want to be an innocent person toward this, your actions aren't showing innocence, you know?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's when I started to realize like, yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, like, hey, we need to show some innocence.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we need to show what you have in there that is has still some wholesome innocence about you because I never really knew.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get shown that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I just started reading.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's weird, but the there's so much innocence in reading.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's like you could be in the middle of about to get in a fight with somebody in school.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: You pull a book out when they're about to hit you, they will probably stop and be like, Why you got a book in your hand?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be like, Because I have to read something before you hit me.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: They would probably be like, What?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even want to hit you no more.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you reading anyways?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, like, because they would be so shocked.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because you get what I mean?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're like, What is this?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I'm like, I don't understand.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I'm not leading with your energy.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I need to learn to read.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I get we're arguing about the fight in here, but we have to hold that thought.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I you know, I need to read right now.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I responded to a fight with a fight.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did not have time to be fighting.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: The person who was fighting might have been a very smart person, so they might have had time.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So all the things I was doing, all the things I was making up or whatever was happening, I did not have the time or energy to do it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was just putting the time and energy into it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And no matter what, the outcome of putting your time and energy in something that is not for you, like when I'm going to fight or do this, or those weren't for me.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you can't read.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: What are you fighting for?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you read first, then fight?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I had no idea.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so that's when I started to realize I'm like, no, this is wrong.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Until I learn to read, I'm wrong.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wrong.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I get in trouble, you're wrong, Oliver.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because the fact of the matter is you're sitting here doing this when you should have been sitting over there doing that reading.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in trouble, it's because you're somewhere you were not supposed to be.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I ended up getting myself in trouble.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how every kid out there growing up right now, where they're supposed to be, will get in trouble.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what you're saying, first of all, is is really quite an inspirational uh reflection.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: But also you're talking, I can hear, like these kids need to hear you.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I I know that you're doing speaking tours and you're talking in schools, and you're you're trying to actually tap this essence because there are a lot of kids in that position, like thousands.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's about opportunity, but also what you choose.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And reading is something that most people would think is a you know a give and right.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, what's great about it is it is free.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: You can get a you know, book pretty much anywhere, you can go to the library, you can access things, but for some reason, if you don't know that pathway, as you say, it just builds into trauma after trauma as you start to be more and more disengaged from the education system and therefore from opportunities.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we know for a fact that if you struggle to read and you can't read, the chances of you ending up in poverty are like triple.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually insane.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: The correlation, right?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I work, as you know, this is the World Literacy Foundation podcast.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: The stats are really quite overwhelming.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like 750 million people can't read and write.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hello, what's going on?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And we're talking, and when I speak to people, they go, Oh, so you mean in the outskirts?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, in the big cities, in like what you're talking about, in California, like who would think, or in America, in in a lot of the big cities, people can't read and write because of the very story that you've just told is a very common one in America.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: So from there, what brought you to the book?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: What what took you from the the fight to the book?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how did you make that crossroad?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Was what was the first book that spoke to you?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, the first book that I kind of got given to me that I can comprehend and see that I was working on was a book by uh a really good friend of mine right now.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, at the time I didn't even know him, but I've gotten close and cool with him now because of the reading.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And his name is RC Rablato, and he wrote a book, uh 365 quotes.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um Live Your Life Buy kind of thing, like it's a quote book.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: My lady had just bought it for me randomly on Christmas Day as like Christmas as it's a gift, you know, just like, hey, here you go.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so foreign to me.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I think I couldn't even comprehend why she would do this.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like the thoughts I was going through my head, like, what does she know?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't know at the time, like all my struggles.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: She kind of was just getting finding out, was just telling her.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So she's like, you know, obviously, it's a lot coming on to her.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm in my feelings, but I understood that this is a very innocent space.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: She did not know, she did not try to make anything.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: She was just buying a book because she's a reader.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And she was like, you know, I was gonna so she's a reader, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so she loves motivational.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I love motivational stuff, just motivational stuff that can just get my mind into a motivational place.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: She knows that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, You always listen to these motivational podcasts, motivational it is, and I'm like, I like it.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I like to hear people talk about how they overcome stuff.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So she bought me the quote book because it's motivational.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, This is great.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can read a quote every day or something.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's what her thought process was, which was great because I ended up learning how to read in that book.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would read a quote or two, maybe sometimes for a week, just one quote for a whole week.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I would practice that same quote, and it would never get old because it would just be like, if you can't run, then crawl.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't crawl, then walk.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't, I'll be like, Yeah, Marcus King, let's go.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't get old, you know.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it spoke to you.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was excited.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I I couldn't even explain.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't tell me nothing, especially then, because those words were real.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd never knew them.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, you can't tell me nothing.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the most amazing stuff.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like this, you know what this is?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know that?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so and she's like, I don't know, crap, like, you know, like you didn't go to school, you didn't, you didn't get these, you know, epiphanies and open eye openers, like, whoa, like this stuff is really trans, like transporting.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: It takes you places.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get that experience.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm getting it at 35 with a quote.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, You're like a kid, you know.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I am.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that I see how I talk about it now.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think also it's great because people that hear you talk like that, it's never too late.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's the first thing that you've highlighted, right?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: It is never too late to learn to read.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Even as you say, I love the fact that you had that quote and you reread it and and and sort of got, you know, got off on it for a week.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's brilliant.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: I like I love also that, and I think it is important that you mention you touched on so your girlfriend at the time didn't know that you couldn't read fully.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't know that.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about that too, because there I'm assuming that there's an element of shame that you felt about not being having that facility and that resource.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a big issue too, because a lot of people feel shamed by the fact that they haven't been able to learn to read or they can't read, and they don't really want to share it and talk about it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Can you talk to that a little bit too?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's a big issue.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you can break through that, then you go, okay, you know, so be it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Look at your story, you know.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Is that correct?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I can't speak on other people.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll speak on mine, and maybe they could relate to other people.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I've learned that that's the thing that kind of happens.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the you know, my lady, she's still with me now, you know, and she's you know, I'm lucky she is, I'll be honest, because you don't learn how to read, you you you develop some real mental, you know, let's just say hurdles that you have to overcome.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: OCD, PTSD, anxiety, stress.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh list can go on with me when it comes to uh how many things the letters that I got.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I told people all the time so many letters they gave me on YouTube, it's is in numbers now.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm like there's no more letters for me.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the things that pile up on you when you don't have something that the entire world expects you to have.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very good speaker.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so a lot of people they can't even believe me.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: They can't it's it's it's so hard because some people won't even have sympathy on me because of how well I can speak, or because I'm older.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it is very, very challenging, and you end up lying, masking, building up this character that can get through the world that no one knows is not a real character.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're just learning how to get through.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those things was people I dated, you know.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: My lady I date now, she sees the real version of me.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: But y'all gotta realize I'm you know, when I got serious, I'm 29, 30.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So all those years, every single person I've dealt with in relationships, they never got a real version of me.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: They all were just dealing with a version of me that I just wanted to act like so I can get through time.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I could not do the things that everyone else did, so I had to follow along them.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I had to listen in a way that other people don't listen.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I had to abide by certain things that other people won't abide by.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I had to lie, cheat, steal, and do things that other people don't do because not one person could fulfill the things that I needed.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I might need five people.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So all five of them are in positions where I'm I'm I'm giving all of me because I need to take one thing.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: You get what I'm saying?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I need help.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, you had to compensate.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: You had to you had to constantly compensate for the fact that you were hiding the fact that you couldn't read or access certain.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: So just logistically and practically, can you give me an example?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, I know a lot of the people I interview, literacy is an issue, even when it comes to going to the doctor or going to the pharmacy and being able to read stuff.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: So talk a little bit about the practical challenges that you experienced.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I can give you some real ones because I just went through some.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I actually just went to the doctor's late uh not too long ago.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have a bad toothache, still dealing with and um some other things I was kind of just not feeling well.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's part of the stress and the things I go through that the doctors can't, doctors probably can't fully diagnose.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: But long story short is I hate going to the doctors because of this, because of all these things.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I don't have the ability to be able to understand even what's on the paperwork to give me.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So my body, my mind goes into complete panic because I'm trying to come here for a problem, but you need me to fill out paperwork.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now I don't want to come get the problem fixed.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you get what I mean?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't need to find out.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get what you mean.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in the middle, I'm in the middle of arguing, I'm in the middle of telling people, but all I need to really do is say, hey, I can't read that well.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna need one of you to come in the back with me and be my you know interpreter and slash writer or whatever I need.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: But instead, I will sit in that lobby, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Until they call me.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Then I go in the back, get checked, I come out and my paperwork is not done, and I will just hand it in.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or I will ask them if I could take it home and bring it back and probably never do nothing with it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: You think about that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: You think about those.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: That really that just happened, by the way.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: That just happened.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Another one that happens, you go to get your driver's license.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: So this is an easy one for you.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an easy one to break down.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have to go get my license about 10 times.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I just took my license this year.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was the beginning of this year, if not, I think it was.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I had to renew it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I failed about six times.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I had to fail about six times is because after you fail so many times, you rememorize the answers that you didn't, you got wrong.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I start to, it's multiple choice.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I take the test, multiple choice, and then take it with earphones because I can't do it the other way.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can take your driver's license, test with what earphones, and multiple choice, but I'll just come about five, six, seven times and fail until I finally get them by knowing the ones I got wrong already.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I take my driver's test.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that by going there.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I got them to fail like five times, then I'll get the ones wrong and then I'll pass barely.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how I get my driver's license.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like you actually, the exhausting navigation that you have to utilize resources that most people don't.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is so common, and yet when you describe it so beautifully and so poetically, really, because actually we take a lot for granted.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: We don't realize, like, let's be honest, paperwork full stop at the doctor's, or even if you go into a hospital, anything is insane.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know myself, I just sit there going, oh my God.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I often say I'm form-challenged because I sit there and go, wait, what?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Do I have to put that?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so this is not even about literacy.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is just about it's challenging and daunting anyway.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: But for you, or for somebody who has got a literacy challenge, it's it's a whole other level.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so then you also get this level of aggravation, agitation, and obviously anxiety.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, enormous anxiety around that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And lying, that's a big one.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Lying to the doctor.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: About everything.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You as soon as you walk in, you're lying.
• 22:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: How are they going to fix it?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: You're lying.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because they they don't have the real facts, is what you're saying.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: So they can't treat the problem.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is the multi-layered way that the literacy issue builds upon itself and creates bigger problems, whether it's as you ended up probably in prison because you were with the wrong people and obviously you did the wrong thing, but at the same time, it's clearly fueled by fear, anxiety, inability to connect and engage in your community in a way that many other people can.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: But many other people can't, like you.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, then coming back to your quote that you started reading the quote book, which was your first access point at 35 you were.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Is that right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're about 35.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that that gift from your lady um really opened began to slowly open a doorway for you.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: How did it go?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: How did you how did you grow from there?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it started actually.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we started the journey in 2020.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I started my reading journey in 2020.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's when she bought the quote book.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that took a whole year with that book.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: After that, after that whole year with kind of with that book, that that kind of immediately, I can't even explain it, it immediately opened up the door for me to start reading on TikTok, reading out loud, uh, going to places and asking just from the quote book.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So just from the quote book is what kind of sparked me to read everything that I kind of went forward then.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I kind of forgot the question, the reading side.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's okay.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: But the the question is really how from that quote book that started your journey and it gave you an access point.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: But then you, I mean, where was the idea to to jump on social media and and do TikTok, which is brilliant, by the way.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I love your TikToks and I think it is transformative because you actually get all these people who can watch you.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: I saw you've got over 270,000 people tapping into that because that is an example of social media being used for good.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I would say uh I didn't understand it in the beginning, but I lived with fear.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I lived with the fear of I didn't want to tell nobody, I didn't want nobody to know me, I didn't want, but I was like, man, I'm like at one time on this earth and I'm literally just scared to be me.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm me, be who I am.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can't read, I can't spell, can't write, I can't count.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I can't deal with certain emotional things, I have emotional issues.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, but I'm hiding it.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, are you like, are you really hiding it?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because you might be showing it in other ways, and I didn't understand that until I started to be like me.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, social media is show, show media, show media to you, like show me to you, show show media, show me to you.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, I need to start showing me to you.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Social media, show media.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I can't show not me to you.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what it's called.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's called show me to you.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I need to do that.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I ain't doing that, then I'm not doing the right thing.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it keeps going wrong.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the likes ain't going right.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the energy on social media ain't real.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the people don't connect to the messages that you're putting out.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: But go in there and tell them you got some stuff and you got this going on and this is who you are.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Move through people, you don't even have to put a caption or nothing.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: People gonna jump on there, like, like, you know, because they have it too.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: They ain't talking about it too.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's that's when you start to realize you're like, hold on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this secret is my way out.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be like, yes, because nobody's talking about their mental issues, ain't nobody talking about they can't read, nobody talking about they have childhood trauma, ain't nobody talking about that on a daily basis.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: They listening.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're ready to listen, give them something to listen to.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I start to realize I'm like, there's nothing else bigger than social media right now.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people will be like, you need to go volunteer at a local or you need to go.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I do.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do that once I reach one million kids.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because on social media, you can reach one million kids.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can't reach one million kids in a classroom.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I could do it on TikTok, on Instagram, or on, yeah, on YouTube.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let one post go viral and I meet you, I reach one million kids on a morning Monday.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Ain't nobody else going to be able to do that.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking at them like, well, I want to reach a million kids on a Monday morning, right before they go to school.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: The same way they're watching one of those TikToks that got their mind thinking the way they're thinking, I want them to start thinking about reading too.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to be like, oh, wait, well, the reading is an option.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Look at this dude's viral.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: This dude got it going on.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I could be this, yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: You could be this too.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You could be this too.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't have that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started to realize I was like, this is my time.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I was growing up as a kid, I didn't get this opportunity to show this gift.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm learning to read, and I'll be the 35-year-old acting like an eight-year-old on TikTok.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't get to act like I was eight when I was eight.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely brilliant.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I have looked at all your looked at your TikToks.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're so authentic.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: And to your point, the vulnerability that you show is really comforting.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: I can imagine a young, all the young kids watching your TikToks are going, hey, this dude's cool.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: He's open, he's vulnerable.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Who cares whether he learned to read at 35 or 8?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: No one cares.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: They just, your energy, your willingness to be vulnerable, I think is a really important part, which is what you're saying.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's giving you the that genuine, I'm prepared to be vulnerable in front of you.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you guys can learn that TikTok is not just for like posturing, it's for also learning, which is sort of like what I do.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: You and I, like it's the same thing.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what who I can reach with this podcast and the way that we can share our humanity, it's a universal experience.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what you do really well on that pod on that TikTok.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're also on Insta.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you're also touring quite a lot, aren't you?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: You're speaking publicly.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're a very good orator.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: You speak very well, and you have an incredible presence.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's another really important lesson that comes from this.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Just because you couldn't learn to read early, and just because you went through trauma and which is very common, it doesn't mean that you can't grow and learn at any stage of life.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's another lesson that you're showing.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: And your humility is also wonderful because unfortunately, young people and our and the community is it's sort of there's a big focus on being brave, being courageous, being strong, being all of this.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: What you're saying is actually sometimes you just got to fall over and go, it's okay.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna pick myself up and I'm gonna find a new way.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: And what sort of feedback are you getting from your?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: I can see you've got some great commentary and people responding.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: What is bringing you joy right now in terms of the way that you're connecting on this literacy platform, really, which is what you've created?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say uh the people who are messaging me on social media, the people who are supporting me on social media, they're the ones giving me the energy to get up and see this as something more than just me learning how to read.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok is probably the main reason why I get up every day and keep going.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And i I know there's other platforms, and it's it's it's bigger than even TikTok, like when it comes to different platforms, but what I mean by TikTok is the community.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do most of my reading on there, so the community from there.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: They get to see me one-on-one every day.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be honest and honest with you, between my number one support, which is my family, they get me up every day to just get up, you know, like get up TikTok and and the community from TikTok, and I put it straight there.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um they gave me an opportunity to be able to have a an opportunity to have a career, an opportunity to have something that I could not ever dream of ever having.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I still don't even know what those things are.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a house, maybe a car that's paid off, maybe some insurance, you know, if you need it or not.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll have the ability to do it if I would like.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you know what?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: My kids need insurance.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I gotta do one of these things.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I need a new car because we got a family and I can afford it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: We got us a house because I want the kids to grow up in a certain place that allows them to have their mind together and whatever it is.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: But right now it's not even an opportunity for me because I don't know how to do them.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how to do this stuff.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: But TikTok, when I go in there and I see their struggle and see them helping me, it allows me to get up when my family looks at me and they see, like, hey man, you gotta get up and do the things that you're gonna do as a as an adult.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok gives me an opportunity to go somewhere to do it at.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know what I mean?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I get to go there and say, okay, I feel validated here.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm clocking in, I feel like I'm respected for my work.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's a as a person who's working, you know that is that is priceless.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you've got somewhere where you feel wanted, you feel belonged.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, valued because what you're sharing is giving other people a sense that they too can learn to read and change their lives and grow.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I think the other really important thing, which I've noted, which I've also realized like, so I get a lot of people saying, I can listen to your podcast because it's easy and it's and I can tap into that, put the ear pods in, great.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: So the other thing that is interesting is that this technology, while we know the negatives of technology, the positives of technology is particularly in the literacy space.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I did a really interesting interview a few weeks ago with um, it was Jack Black and all those guys who are sponsoring this concept and supporting this concept called Turn on the Subtitles.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: How's this?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you know about this, but you know, when you're watching a movie, yeah, and you've got the streaming service, right?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: They've got a huge movement which was launched in March, which is basically called Turn on the Subtitles, right?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Now, by turning on the subtitles on your streaming service when you're watching a movie, it's transformative.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: They show that it vastly improves literacy, right?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because your kid is going to sit there and watch, you know, whatever, Disney or whatever they're watching.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And if the subtitles are on, they're learning to read as they're watching the movie.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so cool, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not a dissimilar concept.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like just thinking about the world differently.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like what you're doing with your platform is saying, hey, let's use TikTok to teach you stuff for you to watch me learn stuff.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's you've entered that space and you've carved something quite unique.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that you're inspiring lots of people.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say to young kids out there in particular who are struggling with the literacy issue?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: What how would you speak to them beyond watching your TikTok?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll come to their world.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is the first time I'm gonna do this, and I usually give them like some inspiration.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to give you a little insight on some work, something you can do.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is stuff I did.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you've had mentioned about the tools that you can get to make you a better version of yourself.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh using TikTok for educational, that's a that's a tool.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's putting myself in a position of saying I'm going to social media to get educated.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tool now.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going there to scroll, go there to get educated.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by this, I want people to understand, especially the young generation, if you know this or not, when I decided to become a reader, I decided to become a reader, meaning I deleted all people who I followed who weren't reading.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I stopped hanging around friends who didn't read.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: If they did read, we could stay friends.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to have a reading time with me as we do everything.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I needed it.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I told them I want it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I want friends who read.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want my social media to scroll.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: When I scroll, I want them to I want them to be talking about books, talking about this, talking about education.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's my thing.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Your thing might be something completely different.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It could be parent uh daddy issues.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to start following daddies.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry to weird to think, but you need your algorithm to have all dads in there so you can start to see what it was like to actually maybe have a dad.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, whoa, I needed to know this.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: But if your algorithm is anything but what you feeling inside, then your algorithm needs to be re it needs to be changed.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I did, I'm telling you, when I deleted people and I started liking readers, liking libraries, liking bookstores, liking book content, all that pops up on my social media is about education and reading.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: When I went to my social, my life, my live, like you said about comments, this is a real thing.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: For the past year and a half, I've been reading lives for a year and a half.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is like subtitles, meaning I've been reading people's comments for a year and a half.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And my commenting, reading back commenting, reading maze has skyrocketed.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Skyrocketed.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like I was fearful of being able to go in front of people and read like off a teleprompter.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even have to pay me to do that now.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I would do that at the Super Bowl in front of millions of people.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't even care.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be happy.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: At one point in time, I literally would have been having drug in there to do something like that.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, someone don't have to put me to sleep and wake up on a stage.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm literally telling you now, I'll go up there with the, I'll go up there with the tablet, like, hey, I'm about to read, y'all.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Check it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: But because I did that, because I put myself in the reading world, I am now a struggling reader who moves around the world like I'm Albert Einstein smart, you know, because I put myself in that world.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: So even if I'm not, it doesn't matter.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: My social media says I am, because all I look at is education.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm on there reading, all it allows me to feel like an educated, smart person because that's all I follow.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to change your life, follow it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's for the young people.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, I want my life to be better, I hate this, or I hate my mom, I hate this, I hate whatever it is.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Follow things that can get you out of that circumstance.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I promise you, by you just scrolling every day and liking those things, you'll in you'll be in that life.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I scrolled every day and liked libraries, books, motivational, books, libraries, books, motivation.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: All I do now is go to conferences and speak about books, motivation, books, motivation.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you see what I'm saying?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: I made it my life.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I made it my life.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: You created it, you you manifested it, you've basically also, I think, you know, it's like that concept of your diet is what you feed yourself, and that's what you're saying.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not just food.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you watch, what you see, who you surround yourself with.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's the same philosophy.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you're saying.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going to be on social media, tap the things that fill your cup and make you feel empowered.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and so I think that you do that brilliantly.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think also it is really valid.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing is when you go to these conferences now and when you speak to people, um, I think the other thing is you're learning from them as well, but they're learning from you.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you've also opened this world for a lot of people that would otherwise not fully understand just how important literacy is.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I thank you so much for your energy, enthusiasm, intellect, and beautiful way that you speak and inspire others.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I wish you all the best and hope that we stay in touch and that one day you'll come out to Australia and you'll come and see, meet all the World Literacy Foundation.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: And when we're in America, we'll come visit you because I think you're a huge inspiration.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that everyone's going to love this great interview.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been to all Australia.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just have kangaroos, right?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: We do, but let me tell you, yeah, we do.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: We do have kangaroos, but we also are a huge cultural hub.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: And lots of great libraries, lots of great, like this is a make my way there.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: You would love Australia.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like next level.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I wish you all the best, Oliver.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: So lovely to chat, and I look forward to hopefully meeting you one day in person over there in the States.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, at the World Literacy Foundation, we believe in literacy is the foundation of lifelong learning and education.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: People who cannot read or write experience difficulties with simple everyday tasks, such as reading the label of a medicine bottle, filling in a job application, or understanding a traffic sign.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: When we help someone to acquire literacy skills, we're empowering them to access to better opportunities in life to break the poverty cycle.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's a global organization in Africa, Latin America, the United States, the United Kingdom, and in Australia.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: The World Literacy Foundation is often reached to ensure that every child, regardless of geographic location, has the opportunity to acquire literacy skills and books to reach their full potential.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: With striving to eradicate the literacy by 2040, reading and writing should just be a basic ride, not a privilege.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: So please, if you're interested, head to our website, the World Literacy Foundation, to see what is happening globally with extraordinary organizations when we realise that there are 750 million people who cannot read and write.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: So see if you can contribute and make a difference.