Latest / The Redeemed Backslider / Cursed at 19: TRB #17 Chris Guzman

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Cursed at 19: TRB #17 Chris Guzman · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your host, kathy Chastain.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I am a Christian-based psychotherapist and I am a Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: With me in the studio today is Chris Guzman.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Chris is not a backslider and I actually don't know a ton of his story.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: And I actually don't know a ton of his story.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: But part of what we're trying to do in this channel is to talk about how people did come to know the Lord and what their journey was like before they found the Lord.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: So as we go, we might hear more of these stories, but I'm super excited to hear Chris's story because, from what I understand, is pretty miraculous.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the studio, Chris.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: It's good to be here.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell me a little bit about your upbringing.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Were you raised in church?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Were you?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Raised around church.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I was raised, you could say, around church.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: My grandmother actually went to mount zion for 30 plus years.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: She was under brother battles and winslow and then can't trial there always seems to be a grandmother connection yes uh, when kids are not raised in church yeah like it's.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: You know, that is just the power of prayer amen it's incredible so she went to church there.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Did you?
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Did you ever attend with her?
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: I that I could recall, maybe like once or twice, and being a five-year-old, six-year-old, it's just, I don just remember it was boring.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I was just like I don't want to come here again.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: So she would invite us but, like I said, I would tell her no, because as a kid you don't look at that kind of stuff until you're older and you realize, man, what I missed.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Right opportunity that I missed um.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: But my mother and my aunts they were all raised and my uncle was raised um in mount zion.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: They weren't raised but they got.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: When my mother, grandmother, got in, they started going, but my mother, when she was 14, ran away from home and ever since then she never went back to the house of the lord is your mom still alive?
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And she just has never wanted to go to church.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: No, but off of my testimony.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: That really stirred her and God's still doing the work in her, of course, of course.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: And you talk to my wife and me like when my wife first met my mother.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: She saw how she was.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: My wife and me like when my wife first met my mother.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: She saw how she was and then now how she is.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: It's a giant leapstone where my mom is now.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, you know, your mom is probably like the rest of us who left church and didn't want to go back.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: For all the reasons you know.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it was things like you know, for girls it was all the standards we didn't want to do.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: All that, you know, and other things you know.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Church hurt and just other hurt that we don't know how to deal with.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Except, you know, try to find it in the world.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm going to believe with you for your family.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Because she knows enough, probably has had an experience with oh yeah, and she's seen the change in me yeah, yeah, she can't deny, deny that at all yeah, so um, so tell me about your life, like, what was life like for you before you found the Lord?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Well, my parents.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: They did the best that they could to provide for us and we lived in the neighborhood.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: That wasn't maybe the most safest growing up, but as a kid you don't see that stuff.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Did you have siblings?
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: Yes, I have four brothers and one sister.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Were they older, younger?
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I'm the middle, so two older and two younger.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: And growing up.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: You know it's quite interesting seeing as you grow up.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: You start seeing your close friends, those that you were raised by or with.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: And you see, at some point you don't know exactly when, but you see at some point you don't.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: You don't know exactly when, but you see at a point they start picking, they start choosing the path that they're going to go down right and um, a lot of my close friends that I grew up with.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: I seen they started going down certain paths and me a lot of it, a lot of them went to like certain gangs and all that and me, you know, I thank God that he put it in my heart to not have a desire to ever join a gang.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: It just wasn't.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I didn't have that desire because I guess it was wisdom that he gave me at an early age.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: It was like I really knew.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the only one who was going to be there was for my family, so why would I invest and do things for a certain group that had no good interest for me.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So you already had a very um good family connection.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: You.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: You had like this, uh, um, this feeling that family was important, because not all kids, not all kids grow up feeling that kind of love for their family, that kind of?
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Um honor or respect and value for their family yeah, exactly so you had that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: That's that's good yeah, um, and it's quite.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know if there's a.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I heard it from a study or what, but they say a lot of individuals who end up joining like a gang or a group usually come from broken homes, and I could attest by like 90 of my friends that went down that route came from a broken home.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Either they didn't have a father or their home.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Both parents were just were druggies and I seen that in like real life.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: That man, that that statistic or whoever said that study, is absolutely true.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the fatherless.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: If you look at the statistics of the fatherless, it is incredible and I really believe.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Like I was telling you before, the enemy is really after men and boys, but it starts with boys.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Between the ages of like 8 years old to 12 years old and it's interesting, in biblical times, at 12 years old they had the bar mitzvah and they moved from childhood into adulthood at 12.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: So think about our kiddos at age 12.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Some of those paths are already set.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: We really got to reach them at an earlier age.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So sorry to go off on that?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's interesting I just have a real burden for that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: So as I grew up, I started like I said, I didn't want to be part of a gang but I hung out with them a lot because all my friends were involved in that.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: So other rival gangs would see me with them and they would think that I was a.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: I was a part of that gang, which I wasn't.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: But you know, at the end of the day, you know, you got to stand your ground and, um, in high school I started getting into fights and my mom was just like no, I already, I already know what path you're going down.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna pull you out and put you in independent studies because I don't want you to get deeper into that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: So she did that.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: I was mad.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: You know, all my friends were there at public school and I basically she secluded me but we still hung out and all that were you getting in fights to defend yourself or were you?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: were you angry?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Were you getting in fights of your own volition?
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: uh, it was mainly like, I guess both.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Because you know, as a, as a man, you have that pride.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: So if I see some, if I saw an individual like mugging me or like you know, trying to intimidate me, then I'd be like, okay, well, I'm not gonna let individual take advantage of me or punk me.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: So that's what it was mainly just pride okay and um.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: So my mom, um, my mom took me out because at that time the school was trying to profile me as a, as a gang member.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: My mom was like no, he's not, he's not involved in that.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: So she pulled me out and you know, honestly, it helped me.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean I missed, I missed opportunity to graduate at the bowl and all that, like I really was bummed about that, but at the end of the day, I think it helped me a lot.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I'm getting more deeper and involved in certain things like that what, uh what grade did you get pulled out of high school?
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: it was my sophomore year.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Okay, the first semester I got pulled out so you homeschooled basically yeah yeah, charter school yeah, basically did that and, um, you know, as a kid like growing up in that neighborhood I saw a lot of things and like what well like.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: I've seen individuals like guns pulled out and shot at.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: I've seen the individual stabs before and you know, as a kid 14 years old you see that stuff.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: It doesn't ever leave your mind.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: And now, as a parent, I do my very best to.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to shield my kids from everything, because life's going to happen and I want them to be able to know what to do when certain situations come up.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: But if I could do my very best at protecting them at certain things that they shouldn't need to see or they shouldn't need experience, then that's what I'm gonna try to do so watching all that kind of violence.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: What do you think that did to?
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: you, um, it just kind of made me numb to it, okay.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: So we're like it was just a normal thing, like um.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Other people might be like oh man, I see you know that they get really emotional seeing by and stuff like that, and at first I did too in a way.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: But as the more I saw, you know you just grow numb to it, like that's just a normal it's normal just to see something like that okay um.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: But as I grew, or, you know, as I got older, you know, started um.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: At 14 I started doing drugs and what kind of drugs?
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: I started off with just marijuana and as I got older I got into doing cocaine, um painkillers and basically it's kind of a form of ecstasy just started doing messing around with that kind of stuff chris, were you um like when you're, when you're 14?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: where did your first marijuana hit come from?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Like, how did how did that door get open for you?
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: um, it was, it was.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: It sounds kind of childish now that I'm older, but my girlfriend at that time, um, just, you know someone that I cared about you know, it was my first high school sweetheart, I guess and she had done something to me and basically she had cheated on me.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I was just like, oh man, forget that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Like you know, I brought, ended it with her and I was just kind of like, and you know what, I'm just gonna do something to kind of like numb this hurt.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: So I already had been drinking, um, but I really didn't care for drinking, I just did it, just for the head change.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: And so that's when my other older friends they would do that all the time when they would invite me, and I was like, nah, I'm okay, I don't want to do that, and but that day I was like you know what, I'm gonna try it so I did it and you know, as, just as a human being, I liked it and I just kept doing it after that were you a guy that always had a girlfriend?
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: were you that because you know there are?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Some people that are just girlfriend kind of guys and other girls that are boyfriend kind of, yeah.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Like they just always have a boyfriend or girlfriend.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Um, I don't think so.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: I always, you know, I always had like a girl that I would be talking to, though Like I never really got, because I know when you have a boyfriend or girlfriend I was, even though, as a, a man like I was raised to be if you're going to do something, do it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: So if I was going to have a girlfriend, I was going to be faithful to her, okay.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: So my thing was like I didn't want to be faithful, so I wouldn't even get consider someone my girlfriend, I would just talk to just different girls that way I had that, didn't feel guilty of doing that but this girl was your girlfriend this girl was my girlfriend.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay yeah, so that opened the door for your heart to get hurt, to just want to seek out some comfort through marijuana?
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: yeah, and that opened.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I don't care what everyone says.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Like they say oh, you could just stick to doing marijuana.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Like you, you don't ever move on to other things.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: I could believe it at first, but as I got older I was like no, it's a gateway like it's just.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: It's just the first, I guess the first door that gets open right to other things.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So yeah, well, because I think you know, I think from the spirit realm, or from you know our type of language in christianity there's a justification the minute that you justify doing something that you know you shouldn't like smoking pot the next justification is so much easier yeah you know.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: And so when we talk about opening doors or the gateway, you know people out there will argue that it's not a gateway drug.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: But they don't quite understand, I don't think, the shift that happens mentally in our psyche to where we let down our defenses and we start accepting things that we wouldn't normally accept.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: You know, when we're taught what's right and wrong, normally accept.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: You know when, when we're taught what's right and wrong, yeah, so, um, okay, so marijuana led you to.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Cocaine was next yeah.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: So I started doing other things and as I got older, um, you know, I felt bad because my mom and my dad you know they didn't, they didn't really teach us about god, but you could tell my mom was like her heart was broken that I was going down this path because her brother, which was my uncle, he went down the same path and he ended up becoming addicted to meth and he would.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: He basically would hurt my mom and her, my grandparents, which would be my mom, you know their, their mother.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: He would go steal from mom, he would burn them all the time and I think she was just heartbroken that and hoping that I wouldn't go down that path or she couldn't trust me like how my grandmother couldn't trust my uncle and I told her.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I said no, I won't, I won't ever do, I won't ever do meth, which I never did because I saw the impact that it did to my family.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: So that was, that was a no-no for me, like I won't ever go that far and I didn't.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: What now to say if I never?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: lived for God.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't have.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I can't say that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: And I ended up my.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: What led me to God was at 19 I got with a girl and you know I it was just something different about her and as we started dating, um, I started to have like more stronger feelings for her, which really was weird for me because I normally didn't get that way with a girl right away.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: It would take some time and all the like things got.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: You know, we started having arguments just like any typical relationship and then she ended up breaking up with me and I was just like man.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: That's weird.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Usually it's the other way around.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: And it was weird because I had people don't realize, like you said earlier, like drugs To me.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I believe they're linked to the spirit realm linked to the supernatural.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: That's what I believe, and I already had gone.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I I knew the, I guess, the environment of what each drug did, like what it brought as I did it, so I grew familiar to it, but okay I'm.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I want to interrupt really quick.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: So when you say that, do you feel like you were kind of aware?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I know this probably sounds so simplistic, but when I heard you say that right now, what I imagined is that as you did a different drug, you were almost objectively looking at and becoming aware of how it was changing you.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Because some people they just do drugs and they're just in it for the moment and in it for what they get out of it.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: They're not totally have interpersonal awareness of what's happening in them or through them because of the drug, but it sounds like you did yeah, so you you had some in awareness.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of how can I explain it?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, spiritual, and that was God.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was spiritual.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I knew already, being familiar with how the high or the environment was going to change around me once I did it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: I already knew what to expect.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: But as I started doing these drugs again, it was something different and I was just like what?
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: What's going on like?
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Is it the drugs or what's like something changed?
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: it was like when you're with this girl well, after she, we had broken up and like and something had changed, I said what?
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: There's something going on.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: And, um, I started to see things and normally, you, I would see things when I would be, you know, on substance but it was just a different type of darkness.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I was starting to see, I was just like what's going on here, like there's something different, like what did I get a bad batch of something or or what?
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: But?
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: But a voice in my head kept telling me you're cursed, you're cursed, you're cursed.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And I was just like what the hell is going on, so you would hear that, yes, that you were cursed.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And before this girl?
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Were you aware of the supernatural realm?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Did you have any kind of awareness?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Did you have dreams or nightmares or ever felt like evil presence from a kid?
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: yeah, okay okay, we'll come back to that okay because there is link.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I mean it's.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting yeah.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: So, um, it was just different and I, honestly, I started losing my mind.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I was like, what is going on?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: I'm just losing it.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: I felt really, really paranoid.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Everyone was out to get me and it was just something different.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I said you know what?
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I'm going to stop doing the drugs and I'm going to see if it's the drugs that are causing me to be this way.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: And I stopped for I'm going to say like three weeks, and it just kept getting worse what were you experiencing?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: can you walk me through what a typical day was like?
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: um well, I was noticing like I was experiencing, like I couldn't trust nobody.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I felt like everybody was out to get me and I kept seeing things and what do you mean?
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: you were seeing things like I would see at night time.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: It would only be at night time.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I would see the outline.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: It looked like a I guess we would call an angel and but it had wings and would be a body of a man.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: But it had wings and the spirit would just hover over me at night and just stand there watching me, like tormenting me.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: It didn't let me go to sleep.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Every time I'd fall asleep I would get poked or it would pull my leg or pull my hand and wake me up.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: And it was just.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: It would just put thoughts in my head.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: All you need, you just need to kill yourself.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: You're not going to get better.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Um, this is the way you're going to be, and you directly associated that, all those things, with what you saw.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, that angel with the wings yeah, that was hovering, so that's.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I mean it's not awesome, but it's awesome that you could understand the correlation, that that presence.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: You had the ability to see the presence.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: But everything that you've described I have heard from other people They've been punched in sleep, scratched in sleep they fought.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I had one person who had bloody knuckles from a physical fight in sleep where they were fighting against a demonic presence, but but you could hear it speak and you and there was just always that presence that was visible for you yeah, it was there for almost every night, so to where I had to sleep during the day, and it's.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: You know, the bible says that the light, the darkness, can't comprehend the light or vice versa, something like that, but how I had to sleep in the daytime in order for it not to bother me, and you know it's kind of hard because at that time it's pretty it's amazing.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: What God does is that, when that happened to me and I started going like losing it completely, to where I had to quit my job because my wife or my mom was just like no, I don't want you to end up like shooting the place up or doing something because you're hearing these voices and they're not true.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: So she's like you need to quit your job.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: So I quit my job and I just completely dissociated with all my friends Because, like I said, I didn't trust nobody.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I was like man.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: What if this is coming from one of them who I thought were my friends?
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: I didn't know who was coming and who had done that to me.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Did you feel like someone had actually done something to you to cause this to happen?
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah so were you aware already that it was witchcraft I kind of had it was happening in the spirit room.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of had a feeling like I guess it was a god thing or something told yeah, because you had a already a supernatural awareness of discernment yeah, just something told me that it was something.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Someone had did something to me because, like I said, I had done drugs for years and I already had grew aware of what to expect.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: But this was just completely a different ball game.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And so I, when I dissociated with all my friends, two weeks later I found out that they all got arrested for home invasion and I was just like man, like what, what my life would have been because they had I think they did a year and a half, two years in jail and I was like man, like my life would have been completely different.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know, that would have totally changed the direction of my, of my life.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: So, just two weeks after that happened and and I was trying, I kept telling my mom, I was like I don't know why, but I feel like I'm crazy.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: I was like what's going on with you?
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: What's wrong with you?
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: This isn't you.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: And I was like I don't know, I can't tell you all.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: I feel like someone did witchcraft on me and you know had you been around.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, for a 19 year old to even think about that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's very common.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: It might be now because witchcraft is on the rise yeah but like had you been exposed to people who had meddled in witchcraft?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Had you been around it to know that it was a thing like?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: How did you put those pieces together to come to believe someone might have done witchcraft on you?
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: honestly I don't.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I can't really give a solid answer to that, but I know, like my, my dad's from mexico, so I think the environment over there I think that's one of the number one things is witchcraft to do.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: So you were aware of what witchcraft was.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just didn't realize the effects and how real it was.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: But my best friend at that time, his family, they're really big drug dealers and his mom would meddle in with card reading and you know I never really got into it, but he would tell me that they would do that and there'd be times I would go over and they would have the cards out on the table and I know his uncle.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I think honestly now that I think back about it like it's crazy.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: You look back at your past and you're like man.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: That's what that meant, you know what I mean.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: And I really believe his uncle.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know if, honestly, I think he was involved either as a warlock or a sorcerer.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: He was involved in something and I think, being around my friend and his family, that probably also helped me be aware of the supernatural as well?
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: So when your friends all got arrested for home invasion, did that make you think, oh, maybe it's not them?
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Did it relieve the thought that your friends had done this to you?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Or you were just thinking that, oh that I dodged a bullet?
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: there?
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Um, well, I was.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe I just dodged a bullet because I knew like I didn't know really deep things about witchcraft, but I knew if they did a spell that it's gonna be there, and they just had to do it once you know what I mean and um.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: So I kept telling my mom, and mom was like nah, I don't know, I don't know.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: And she finally so my dad's from mexico, right, and I don't know if it's for every culture or if it's just for certain, but in their culture they have a black witch, which is the ones who work for the devil and then they have a white witch, which is a witch doctor who supposedly fights against the evil yeah, but to me it's all witchcraft it is all witchcraft and so, uh, I didn't know that at the time.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Like I said, like I'm 19 years old.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: So what they do is they send that witch a picture of me and the world.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Who's a witch doctor?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: and so your dad did this.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Your dad sent it to his family in mexico.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: My dad didn't want it, but my mom's like you need to, you need to do something.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Like, even though my mom knew god, like my mom was just I think she was just desperate from not losing me because, yeah, there was instance where it was just chaotic at my house and could you?
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: could you describe that a little bit in more detail?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: uh, I would just like see things like.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I'll just see so much like demonic things and because people, chris, are seeing demonic stuff.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I've had, I've had little boys tell me that they've seen a bigger than life spider crawl up their wall into a vent.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: They've seen half of a woman standing in a doorway.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: They've seen people at their front.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Kiddos and adults are seeing things in the demonic realm.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: They are being attacked, they are being raped being attacked.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: They are being raped.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I mean there's there's crazy stuff that is very real for people that we have protection around because we have the blood of jesus yeah, you know but but people out there, and even any backsliders or or christians who, who might be experiencing this and may not even know what it is or why it's happening.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I think what you share is important.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Somebody will, somebody will need to hear it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: It would be.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: It would be just like different chaos, like really like mainly it was like animal, like animal forms, and there it was a lot.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: There'd just be a cloud of them and they're just a cloud of them, it's just like so say in this room, like if I'm talking to you, it'd be like just like a whole group of them just surrounding the room and just almost waiting to pounce.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, waiting to pounce on me big, putting like tremendous fear in me and you could see all that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, and was it birds?
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Was it wolves Like?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Was it dogs?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: It was just a mix of just different animals that I could really like.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: What God would show me a lot of times would just be the outline of them.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Like a black figure.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It was very rarely where I saw the whole um, I guess, description of them okay, and just more of an awareness, because you can see the, the outlines of them and um.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: So they were just like basically putting tremendous fear in me and my mom would like, I would just like go, and it's sad to say it now, but I would just go like kind of like, um, kind of like not seizure mode, but just like I would just be so scared I was just I couldn't stop shaking and I'll just be like they're right there, they're right there.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I was like, where are they at?
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: I said they're right there, you don't see them.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: And she was just like you know she was.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: My dad was supposed.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: You know, my dad is a catholic, so she got holy water and we know that there's no power in that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So she would go and throw water at the area where I would tell her at and I would overhear, after everything was settled and all that, I would overhear my siblings telling my mom like, oh, when is he going to get back to normal?
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: We're tired of him being this way.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: They didn't understand and I hold nothing against them, and the family members were trying to convince my mom to put me in a mental asylum and just say, hey, like the drugs fried his brain, he's no longer.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: You know the Chris that you once knew.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Like you just need to put him somewhere so he could get help, you know, by medication or whatever.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: But I thank God that my mom had Jesus still in her and say like no, I'm going to fight for my son.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I know God can do it.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: So they sent your picture to.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: To this witch doctor and they came back and they said that who did it was a girl I had dated.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: They described the exact description of the girl that I had dated.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And they said what about her?
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: That she had put a curse or a spell on me or a curse, and that the way she got it to make it it, she was doing it through a picture of mine and she fed me some food, which she did.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: So like I kind of didn't scary and I got you know.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, like I think they knew that I wouldn't believe it, so like they and they, that white witch told um my mom and dad that she knew that I wasn't gonna believe that she, that what she saw, that she could basically like read what was going on in my life.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: So she told uh, my parents like how he's gonna know that this is real?
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Is that she told them that she told my parents that the drugs I was involved in because they didn't know my mom thought I was just smoking weed, she didn't know I was doing all these other things.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: And like she told me, like are you doing all this stuff, this, and that you need time with truth?
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: And I was like I know I was gonna break her heart.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I, I am, I was messing around with that.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: So that's how she was able to convince me that that witch doctor that what she could see was real and I was like, okay, well, she knew that about me and she don't know me.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: She's a.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: She's in a different country you know, she's able to see all that, and so they gave my mom and dad like a procedure that I had to do.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: I think it was for a week and like a ritual basically a ritual, and she said it was gonna.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: That was the only way to break the curse and so your ex-girlfriend fed you food that got into your system, and she used a picture of you to then curse you and do some spells over you yeah, so I'm thinking there's so much there, we'll unpack in a minute yeah.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: So anyways, they're like um, you gotta do this for seven days and they made me.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: They made so every, I think, twice a day, I had to take a shower and at the end of taking the shower, my dad had to blend some herbs and spices in a blender and then I had to pour that over me every time I got out of the shower I think twice a day.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: And I was like this is kind of weird, how is this going to help me?
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: And so I did it, but they didn't tell me that it was gonna, they're, they're gonna break the spells, gonna be broken, I think two days earlier.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Like she didn't give me that information because I guess she just wanted to.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know why she didn't, but she did it.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: So the luck, which I didn't know, was the last time me doing it, but it was the last time for me to do it.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: And I remember I got out of the shower and I poured that little spices over me and the way I could hear your voice and the way you could hear my voice, I heard the most demonic and feminine scream I've ever heard in my life.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: And when I heard that, I felt like a sharp pain in my chest and I was just like what the world was that and all of a sudden I just started breaking down and sweat Like I couldn't stop sweating.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I just took in a cold shower and I was by the time I got to the door I was just drenched in sweat and my mom and dad just started walking in.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: They came back, I think, from grocery shopping, and I came out and she's like what's wrong with you?
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Why are you so sweaty?
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: And I was just like I told her what I heard and then, I think an hour later they called and they said that, um, that they had that.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: That was the last time that they did something there over there in mexico.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: That was the final type of, I guess, ritual to break that spell and she told my mom and my dad.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: she said whoever did this to him, they're gonna want to see him again because the spell's been broken and they're gonna want to see him again, right, right, oh, I got goosebumps and I was like she's some moms like, don't, they're gonna want to.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: So my mom was like, don't, they're going to want to see you again?
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: So, whatever, you don't go and see them.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: And it was funny because my ex-girlfriend and I tried to hang out with her maybe like a few weeks earlier and this was before I knew what she had did, and she was like no, I'm too busy this.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: And that I was like all right, whatever, um, but then all of a sudden that day I get a text which is hey, I'm in, I'm on your side of town, can I come pick you up and see you?
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: And I wish I could say I didn't go, but I did.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I'll go hang out with you, even though I knew what she had done to me.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: But I was like you know what, I'm gonna show her that you know what, I'm no longer scared of what she did to me, that what she did to me, whatever her intentions were, didn't break me, you know, I mean, I'm still here did you confront her?
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: no, I didn't.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: No, I should have.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: But in a way I kind of was still scared in a way, because I was like, well, what if she does something else to me, like if I got her angry, you know?
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: So that I still had a little bit of fear towards that because I knew how real it was.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: When I heard that voice, yeah, and I was like and it's crazy, because her, I remember she's saying her mother was a cop for the reservation over there in lamore.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: So I'm like I wonder if she learned it from over there somehow, because she was the white.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: It's quite fascinating.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: That was not fascinating, but I learned a lot of how kind of witchcraft works through that experience and that I guess the witch doctor she said she said whoever she learned the spell from is who the who I'm battling with.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: It's not her, it's who taught her how to do the spell and that's who I'm battling with.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: And I believe that's the scream that I heard.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that day yeah it's not hers, but was whoever mentored her and showing her how to do it.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Um, so we, I saw her, and you know it was just a casual conversation and just caught up, and then that was the last time I saw her so I you know, I think about um, what um ethan logston had said when he got into witchcraft part of his ritual was to take a shower, and we talked about the symbolic significance of washing, which is representative of baptism yeah right, but it's so interesting how the demonic world uses that as well yeah um in in all of that and so um, oh, you said something I wanted to address.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Do you know much about soul ties?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I haven't talked about it much on the podcast.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I've heard some stuff about it.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so a soul tie, you know the.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Bible says that we become one when we have intercourse, fornication or adultery.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: We become one with we when we have intercourse fornication or adultery we become one with that person and um in the psychology world it'd be called a trauma bond so um.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So it's basically an emotional bond.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Your soul is your mind, your will and your emotions, but I I think that in the spirit realm there is a joining together of the spirit that causes us to become one.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: So once fornication takes place, there is like a connectedness in ways that you know, I think the average person probably doesn't get.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: But I learned this through an experience I had with a client and saw something manifest when we just you know to break a soul tie.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Basically is a simple little prayer you send that person's soul tie back, you call yours back, you ask God to forgive you.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just a renunciation prayer and, just you know, a prayer to break that.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: But what?
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: What was interesting is that?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Um, one thing that we notice when we, when you break a soul tie, is there is an immediate reaching out again, because they feel in the spirit realm of disconnectedness from you and they are wanting to reach out and try to reconnect, to just check, to see, to find out, because people can be very spiritually aware without understanding and then there are people that are very spiritually aware with a lot of understanding, like like this was um, but I'd also been told as a therapist not to take gifts and not to, you know, not to take anything, because we just never know what people do so when you said she fed you some food, I thought, well, that is the best reason for us to pray over our food.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I bet you come away from this experience really having a deeper meaning and understanding of what we do as Christians right Praying over our meals, asking God to bless it.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: So, what do you think?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: What do you think how do you think this experience you walked through has helped you understand spiritual warfare and your christian walk with god?
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: We'll get to how you found god, but how do you think what you experienced helped you to understand in a deeper level how powerful spells are?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: What does that mean about prayer?
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: um, I think, because my experience was like I was someone who didn't very, who knew very little about god, if anything about god, and I feel like the enemy likes to do all this stuff to individuals and they don't.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Either they don't know God at all or they know very little about God and he puts this fear in them that he's all-powerful, like there's no therapy or anything that can help them in this situation.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Right spiritual issue.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I felt through this experience, god has allowed me to come across individuals that are battling with certain things and I'm able to relate to them because I once was there.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: And I tell them look what God did in my life and I'm no one special, he loves everybody, he loves each one of us and I encourage him like you can get through this, god can help you through this, but you know it's only going to be a God thing.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I tell him because you know later on, as I get on, how I found God, like I realized it's only a God thing and like how spiritual warfare and me would it help me with that is that the devil ain't going to go after an individual that he doesn't feel threatened by.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Right, because he knows your purpose at the end.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: He knows what God called you to.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: And we could get into that, because I believe me personally, I feel like in each one of our lives, god has had his fingerprint, without you knowing it or not, right?
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: And as I'm getting older, I see it.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: For instance, when I was in fourth grade, I can remember the exact school and the exact classroom I was in and a voice just spoke in my head and said you're going to do something great in this world.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: And I was like like, and as a nine-year-old, I'm just like, oh man, like I'm gonna be an entrepreneur, I'm gonna make all this money, I'm gonna be able to give back to my community, I'll be able to help others.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh well, maybe I'm gonna be a professional boxer and I'm like world win, world championships and I'm gonna be able to bless other individuals.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: And little did I know that that was not the not.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: That's what not was going to happen.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: It was going to be something dealing with the god's kingdom yeah and it's.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: It's amazing how god works, because now where I work out like I, I came across.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: I go to that school sometimes and when I go to that school that classroom's still there and I look back at it.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I was like man, like came across.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I go to that school sometimes and when I go to that school that classroom's still there and I look back at it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: I was like man, like little did I know that.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: That's the first time I heard the voice of god yeah, but yeah, you know, I didn't know it at that time right and how god just comes back and works in circles it's just amazing yeah and.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: But I truly believe that we all have fingerprints of god working in our lives and we just don't know until we get older or we go through a situation and realize, man, God was with me at that time.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I think I want to pause and say for anyone watching about spiritual warfare and witches, white witches, black witches I think we talk about it a little bit in our culture, but, um, the gifts of god, um are found in the book of first corinthians, chapter 12, and chapter 14, bookend by first corinthians, 13, on the chapter of love.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: But the Bible says that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: So, just as Chris was born into this world for a purpose, with a purpose not understanding who God has created him to be as a kid, but he is recognizing that as an adult there are people that are born with the gifts of god's spirit in them that are able to operate in the supernatural.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: And if they were not raised in church or raised around god or raised to know the lord, the enemy always tries to steal that gift and use it for his kingdom.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: So when you go to a psychic, when you go dabble in witchcraft and you get around any of those supernatural things, it is very real.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: But the source that is speaking to those people is not god, um, because god's, because when god speaks um, it produces the fruit of the spirit, which is galatians 5 and 22, and it.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: It brings um, it brings life, and so I just wanted to sort of give that caveat.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Um, because the spirit realm is very active.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: There is a ton of of demonic activity and witchcraft, and I think, as christians, we have to be aware of the devil's devices and how he works against us, because it's happening every place.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: We just don't always know um.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: So if you are out there and you have ever went to any of those places, I would renounce it, ask god to forgive you and and ask god to close those doors that were open, because it does create an access point.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: But that's what spiritual warfare is all about.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: It is the fight between the heavenly and the demonic, and that battle has existed since.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Genesis 1, before Genesis 1, when Satan was cast out of heaven.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: So sorry, go on.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: But, like you said, even if it's a white, she was a witch doctor.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Even though she was, in a way, trying to do good, it's still witchcraft.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Because even after that had happened to me, I still, I still, I still was seeing things, I still was having these thoughts, I still was losing my mind, things, I still was having these thoughts, I still was losing my mind.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: So it did help a little bit.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: But that's when I realized let me back up before that the reason why I saw my, I went back and I actually saw my ex-girlfriend was because I was like you know what she's doing witchcraft on me.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: I'm like I'm gonna go even deeper than that, I'm gonna do something even higher level than her.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: So I started looking into alchemy oh, you did I started looking into alchemy.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: I started studying it and reading it because I was like, what's something I'm good at, which was I was good at math and I was good at chemistry?
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: I said well, alchemy, to me it's a form of witchcraft.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Alchemy- yeah, yeah and it deals with, you know, chemistry and geometry and um.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: So I started getting deep involved in that.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: I was like I'm gonna do it back to her, but I'm gonna do it at a higher level.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: And then, the more I got deeper into it, the more I realized, the more I guess, in a way, I was um, getting further away from god.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I was like you, what?
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: This isn't the answer, this, I don't want to go down this path because I feel like if I go down this rabbit hole, I don't know if I'm going to come back out of it.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: So I stopped and that's when I started listening to.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: Well, before I started listening to, like, christian stuff, um, I still was.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: I was still having those battles with my mind and, um, seeing things at night.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: And I remember I got to a point in my life where I was just like you know what, like I'm just going to call it, I'm just going to check out, and I've been battling with this for months and I thought it was going to get better after that, and it didn't, it's just the same.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Was going to get better after that and it didn't, it's just the same.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: And I remember the day, um, my everybody was gone.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: But my sister and she's a she was a teenager at that time, so she was just do teenager things in her room, locked up in her room.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: I was like no one's here, my sister ain't gonna bother me, and she never has once ever came to my room and I said you know what, I'm sorry, but you know I was, you know my mom and I weren't there.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: But I was kind of just speaking out loud like I'm sorry, mom and dad, like I love you, but, um, I don't want to be a burden to you, no more, I'm just going to check out.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: And I sat on my bed and I had the knife to my wrist and how and right when I was about to do it, my sister walked in and she said she said, hey, what are you doing?
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: I said nothing, what would you need?
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: And she said all night I'm checking in on you.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: And before she left she said, hey, and just don't do anything that you would regret.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: And and I was just like what the you know I was just shocked, you know.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: And when she said that I was like.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: You know what God is real.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Had you had an introduction with him before that?
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: I did a little bit, you know, but just by what my mom would say.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: She would read passages of scripture over me some of the times when I was having episodes and so after that I was like you know what Like God is real and why am I going to let this win?
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: I need to fight and fight until the very end.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: So I started reading the bible and started reading scripture and asking questions to my aunt, who my aunt goes to brother karen trials church in hanford and um.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: So I started asking questions and she started um, she said you know what you know like breaking it down for me, the scriptures, and at that time I didn't know exactly what the nomination I wanted to be involved in.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: I know my dad was Catholic and my mom was raised Pentecost, so I was going back and forth to the Catholic church to Pentecost and I think what really helped me made my decision was, I remember I got fed up with those spirits attacking me and I got in holy water from the Catholic Church and I said it in one of my preachings and um, I was like you know what, like I've seen it in movies, right, that they get this water and they throw it and supposedly, you know, the spirits leave right.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: So I'm over here with my bible and I'm praying, reading scripture out loud and just throwing water everywhere inside my house.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: And I went all the way to the backyard throwing it everywhere and I went to the front just praying and reading scripture out loud and you know, it's funny now that I think back about it I was like man.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: I wonder what my neighbors thought of me.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: Like what's this guy doing?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: this guy's nuts and so you went outside around your property yeah, around, probably just throwing it, just reading scripture out loud how did you know to do that?
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: it's just off of movies I saw I guess you know the priest would do that and um, so with you know, like how you mentioned about certain attacks, like physical attacks from the spirit realm.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: And I got back to the house.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: I went inside my house and I don't know how I could describe it, but I just I heard like a tambourine.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: It was kind of like it sounded like a tambourine but it wasn't.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: And I saw something outside the kitchen window and it was a.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: It was a feminine, demonic spirit and it was just clothed and like ancient robe, like where her face was covered, and I just felt like it was a representing the spirit of witchcraft, like that's what I felt it represented.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: And then I heard a voice said look at your hands.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: And I looked at my hands and all my hands are all scratched up from claw marks and I was just like when I saw that, like fear just got, you know, I just got fearful and I was like dude, what am I messing with?
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Like I shouldn't be messing with this, whatever it is.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: And my older brother came out of his room and he said what are you doing?
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: He's all whatever you're doing.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Like stop doing it.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: Like don't mess with whatever you're messing with well, yeah, you were reading the bible right.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay yeah, so whatever it was like, basically, you know, tried to intimidate me by scratching me and um, so I was like you know what, like this is bigger than what I think it is, and I think the only way I'm going to get true victory is actually like giving my life for god and living for god, because at that time I didn't want to give my life to god, because I was just like you know what?
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: I just want to get better, get back to myself, and I could just do me like, be me and don't have to deal with any of this.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: Um, but you know, god knows what we have to go through to get it stuck in our heads so that line in the sand came quick for you yeah I.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: It doesn't always come quick for people.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I knew it was going to be a God thing, but I wasn't 100% sure if I was going to stay living for him.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, that's what I'm saying.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: He wasn't giving you a choice.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now I think about it, exactly that.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: So my aunt invites me to another church, pentecostal church in Visalia, and she takes me there on Wednesday night and they give me a visitor card like a prayer request and I remember the exact words that I wrote and I said your prayer request, what do you need?
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: And I said, and the thing I put complete deliverance from the devil.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: That's what I wrote in the prayer request.
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: What do you need?
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: And I said and the thing I put, complete deliverance from the devil.
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: That's what I wrote in the prayer request.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: And you know they preached and then the altar call came and I ran up there.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: I was like you know, I felt the power of God.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: I said, if anything could change, it's going to be in this place.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: And as I went up to the altar, you know the pastor and you know all the elders and the men went over me and started praying for me and god filled me with the holy ghost that day.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Wow, and you know, like I look at other people who who take years to get it and like with me, he gave it to me that day and I'm like, I'm truly blessed that he did, because I think he saw that I needed it like I needed it to leave with his spirit that day.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: And that day was I knew, like I didn't know, the full understanding of the holy ghost.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: You know, I was just a baby, like I didn't know.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: I was barely starting to read scripture and try to understand it.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: And I went home that day and I was just joyful.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: I felt a fire like all over my left hand that I could not explain.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: It was just a pure fire and I didn't understand.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: You know, the bible says he baptized you with the holy ghost and fire.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: Like I didn't read that scripture yet, I was like man.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: I feel like my hands on fire, but it's a good fire though it doesn't burn like in pain, but like it's a burning like with power, like peace, purity and maybe healing yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: And so I went to sleep that night and I just I just kept waking up and I was like this is a fire still there?
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, still there, I'll go to sleep, wake up.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Is it still there?
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's still there.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: And that was the first night where nothing bothered me in months and it was just a life-changing experience.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: And it took me months to get baptized because, like I said, I was still on the fence.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: When I do something, I want to be 100 in and I was like jesus, like if I get baptized in your name, I want to make sure like I'm gonna live for you and I'm gonna do it right and I'm gonna give you everything that I have.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna get baptized and I have doubt that I might backslide and go back to the world like I don't want.
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: I don't want to hurt you because you've been so good to me, you've been so faithful to me, that I don't want to do something that would hurt you right and so it took months for me to get baptized.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: But I got baptized at our church where we go to now and after that, like after getting baptized, I think is what really truly delivered me from what was chasing me during that period in my life.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: Like you know because I still you could ask individuals when I first came I had my head down.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: I couldn't look at anybody in the face because of of condemnation, of shame, of, you know, fear of like I could.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: That would come back to me and I would have to go through that all over again.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: So a lot of times I would have my head down the whole time during service because I just couldn't look at anybody in the face and over time, living for God and God slowly chiseling all that bondage over my life, I was able to finally lift my head up, look at people in the eye, but it was baptism, I think is what fully closed.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: That door was washing.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: All the enemies couldn't cross that water that I had and the supernatural they couldn't cross.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: They couldn't go in there in the blood with me so what do you think?
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: like I know, you probably know the right language of what baptism means from a salvation standpoint but, what did it mean for you, where you felt like they just couldn't cross the line anymore?
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: What did you understand spiritually that took place when you got baptized?
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: was that?
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: The bible says that.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: You know the he makes us new creatures in him.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: And I believe that old man died.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: So where all that, all those experiences, all the sins that could have, I guess, gave them power or had, I guess, a breach in my life where they could get access?
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: Into my life and hold me in bondage, that those breaches no longer existed, because out of that water came out a new man and that's and that's.
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: I felt so light, like all my past mistakes, all the condemnation, all the guilt, all the shame, all the mistakes I ever made and that old life like no longer were tied to me, no longer, yeah, and came out, me and a new, a new man, and it was, that was, I think, the most pivotal moment in my life to like, okay, now I know I'm truly free because we hear that scripture a lot and we believe it at face value.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: But it's so wonderful when someone can actually experience the reality of those words, like really understand that all of that died with you in that water, you know, and that there is no more access to you because you're now buried with him in Christ and bear his name in the spirit.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: So, um, oh man, so many questions.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: So you started reading your bible, started coming to church you found the church that you go to, now our church, and so once you got baptized, how long was it before you got filled with the holy ghost?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: And then you got baptized?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: I'm going to say it was at least three or four months.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, and had you already been dating your wife?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: No, okay.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: So you came in church as a single man by yourself.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: And then, when did you meet her?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Was she in church?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she was, she was Okay.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Was her?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: Was she in church?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she was, she was okay.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Was she born and raised in church?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, she was, and then she backslid for a couple years and then came back.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Okay okay, but she was there when I started going Okay.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: So what do you think now, chris, when you look back, yeah, what do you think God is calling you to besides being a preacher?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: What gift sets do you think that God uses you in or is calling you to?
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: And do you see any correlation from where you've been to what God has for you and your ministry?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: well, honestly, I really have a burden for, like the neighborhoods that a lot of people wouldn't want to go to, because a lot, of, a lot of those individuals that come from broken homes are broken and the only the only, I guess, encouragement that they have is to join either a gang or be in part of a criminal group, or drugs and alcohol, like that's the only way that they know to go about it, because they have no real good influences in their lives.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Like, for instance, me growing up.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: I can only say I had like two or three good teachers in my life.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: All the other teachers looked at me and I'm not casting any stones at them because I get where they got their mindset from.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: They just look at behaviors, yeah.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: They don't look at a person yeah.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: So they just see me the way I dress, yeah, and they're just like this guy is just going to either be locked up or he's going to end up dying.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: So why am I going to invest any time in him?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: So a lot of times they don't have good leadership at all and I feel like that's a burden for me is to reach those individuals, not just because I can relate to them, but because I know how it is to go through that and not have that structure and not have people believe in you, only see bad things in you and, um, that's one of the things I really have a burden for is reaching those individuals.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: Going to those neighborhoods, um, you know, sometimes it might, when I used to do, outreach for brother angel, we would go to those neighborhoods and you know, sometimes it might.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: When I used to do outreach with brother angel, we would go to those neighborhoods and you know, sometimes people feel a little uncomfortable, which I get, I understand.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: Um with me, though, like it's just like seeing old friends again yeah and I I just like you, know just their language, the way they talk and all that like obviously I don't talk that way anymore, but I can understand, like I can just relate to them.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: It's just because I guess it's just because my background and honestly and like the gifts I felt, like god has shown me is one of them, is discernment for sure the sermon of spirits, like you don't know how many times, like when I began to live for god, because I lived with that spirit of witchcraft for so long that I grew familiar to how it felt yeah and you know how many times I came across people at the store, people at restaurants, like right away, like I'm sure you've experienced, like right away, like you, just it's the holy ghost and you just feel you make that, you make that eye contact and, like you guys both know already, like right, oh, I know what you represent and I know you know what.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: I represent Because the spirit is communicating.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always communicating.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: That's just one of the things that God has blessed me with.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: It was discernment.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Do you see in the spirit now?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Like angels, or have you seen the good in the spirit realm?
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: One time I could say, like God, actually let me see, like for a couple seconds, full detail of an angel and I think I've told it to Jeremy and Angelo it was.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: I got dropped off at a youth service and you know I'm not trying to boast or anything but when I first started church I didn't know anything about fasting, so a lot of times I would fast how Esther and the Apostle Paul would, with no food or water.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: And I didn't know like you're supposed to drink water.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: So a lot of times I would fast that way and when I was on the fast and you know I was just hungry after god and I remember my mom dropped me off at a youth service and when I got dropped off I saw something in the corner of my eye and I looked and you know the alleyway that goes, say if you're going towards the mineral king.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: It was, it was an angel.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: That was at least, like I would say, 20, 30 feet tall and he was walking around the corner and when I saw him, like I only saw him for a couple seconds, but he had a sword and he's gone and it was just amazing, like the armor and everything that he had on.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: I was just just like just that three seconds of seeing it, I was like you know, thank you, Jesus, that was such a blessing to see and it was just God confirming, you know, like he takes care of his body, he takes care of his church and there's nothing for us to fear.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: You know, like I said, like now that I know God and know his power and all that like little things, Like you know, obviously we still get attacked.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: You know we still are going to go through things, but it's like knowing, just like you know, what God is in control, like there's nothing that you can do to me, there's nothing that you can go after that God doesn't already know, doesn't have control over already know, doesn't have control over um.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Do you ever pray to ask god to open your eyes to see more in the spirit?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Because I believe if you can see in the demonic, you can see in the angelic yeah because it's it's the gift of seeing, and so you know, have you ever prayed for?
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: that I think I have.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: I haven't lately.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: You know I probably should.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: There is no gift of seeing.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: But, it is discernment of spirits and it is to be aware of you know.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Of the surroundings.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, partnering with the Lord, you know, and to be able to see, you know, um surrounding, yeah, Partnering with the Lord, you know, and, uh, to be able to see.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: I I've prayed for that because I used to see all the demonic stuff.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: And and my cousin Jason Jeremy's uh brother had seen an angel, and so I would compare as a kid, like why did I see demons?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: And he saw an angel, like what's the matter with me?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: But I began to pray that God opened my eyes to see.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: I want to.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: When we know what heaven is doing, we can align with God's will in our prayer.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, I want to go back to that with you, like now that you understand the power of that spell, because even I think you said the witch said that once they say it it only takes, once it's, you know, it's set.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: What do you, what do you think now about prayer?
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: And how you know if a spell is that powerful.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: What do you think now about prayer?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: I think prayer is, I think, one of the most underused weapon that we as christians have like there's so much power in prayer.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: You know jesus um said, you know he talks about faith.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: You know moving um, it's a seat of a, so you can move mountains, and you know it's interesting about prayers.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: Like I have, I love prayer as one thing that, when I first got into living for god was like prayer.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: Prayer, prayer and his word were the two things I felt like if I could establish a prayer life and establish a word life, I think if I have those two things that I could go through anything in life yeah, and I remember I had a dream and I think and I told this dream to brother stone king one time and the dream was I felt like I was like in a jungle, I felt like africa, and in the dream I was like in a white robe, like if I was like a priest, and I went inside this hut.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: It was like it I guess it was the temple, but it was a hut and I went in there and I began to light an incense and I was praying to God and as I prayed to God, for some reason, on the other side of the wall it was a city.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: Looked like a big city like a New York City or I don't know what city it was, but it was a huge, developed city, had skyscrapers and everything.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: And then I saw a bomb just fall in that city and as it fell it blew and I seen all the individuals running and that cloud just overshadowed them and then they disappeared.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: And as I was praying, all of a sudden it reversed, like if it never happened wow, chris and I remember I told brother stone king this dream that I had, I said was talking.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: You know I had.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: I caught him at a time.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: I said I had this dream.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: I want to know what.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: What is this, do you know, with the interpretation of this dream?
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: And he said he said, brother, that was god's showing you that your prayers have changed, could change the outcome of countries and worlds that's a global menace.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: I mean chris, that is so powerful yeah, it was.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: It was something I would never forget, when he told me that I was just like man, like but I think, like so I could be wrong anyone out there who's listening to me feel free to comment and I could be wrong, but in my spirit, when you were talking about that demonic angel that you saw, my first thought was it was a principality.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: And I wonder, as you talk about this dream like, if God is really calling you to a city or a region like you know, man, chris, I think you got to really pray into Lord.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: Why did that happen?
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: What does the enemy know that?
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know yet about your purpose for me, because I've I've heard of people having demonic attacks.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: I think, uh, brother Mahaney talked, um in his podcast with me, um, about a principality that had visited him when he was preaching someplace and it showed itself and I don't know, I I don't know if I'm right or wrong or what, but I would take it to the lord because that kind of a vision it, it's, it's, it's for bigger than you right and and I think the lord is trying to reveal to you.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: He puts everything in us that we're ever going to need, but we have to discover it, and all these things are trying to reveal his ultimate purpose.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm so excited because I feel like the lord is giving you, um, an indication of like.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: If you have, if, if our prayer can reverse the destruction of a huge city, like you said, new york city, man, what could god do here in our city?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: Or the city that you feel called to, or like how.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: How powerful is prayer really?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: it's like I said earlier.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: I think it's the most underused weapon that we have as Christians, and I get it when people say prayer.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: A lot of times it's like man your flesh doesn't want to do it.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: But one thing that we started doing as a family and I should have done it years ago is that as a family, we take 10 minutes and we pray as a family at our home, because I feel like if I'm going to see growth in my children and in my family, I think it's going to be there in the home having a prayer meeting, because none of my children have the Holy Ghost yet and I'm believing that one of those prayer meetings at our home is that God's going to fill them with the holy ghost yeah, you know he could do it at a sanctuary, I don't mind it, it's just.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: I really feel like it's going to happen there at my house.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's just.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: I know I think a lot of times it's.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: The greatest struggle as a Christian is to have a prayer life, because the devil knows that that's the greatest tool that we have at our disposal, and the Bible says that life and death is in the power of the tongue.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: So there's power in our voice and there's power in our words.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: And one experience that I had when I was beginning, beginning to live for god we had to live with my brother for a certain time.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: So I I was going to abundant life center for, like, I think, a month or so did your brother go there?
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: no, no, no oh, they were just in taleri, they lived in taleri, so we had a.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: We had to stay with them for a month because my parents had just gotten a new house and it wasn't ready.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: So I had a.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: You know, I was barely, I think, a month or two months old in the lord and I had a dream.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: And in this dream it was, it was taking place in the same room.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: It literally felt like my body, like my spirit left my body and I could see myself sleeping.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: And in this dream, like I said, god would only show me the outline of the demonic spirit.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: And in the outline of it it was, at least, I want to say, 8, 10 feet tall and it was big and I could tell it was a male type of demonic spirit and it had horns and it was just grabbing me and just throwing me all across the room like if I was a rag doll.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: And instead of me being fearful, I kind of I just started laughing.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: I was like man, you have, you know, you think you have no power over me.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: I said all I need to say is the name of, and when I was about to say Jesus, it grabbed my tongue.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: I felt my tongue just shut it didn't allow me to say it, and that's when fear kind of got in.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: I was just trying to say Jesus.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: But when I was able to finally get it out and say Jesus, I woke up and my tongue hurt so bad that night.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: I woke up with so much pain in my tongue and when I woke up I heard a cock crow like outside my window and this was at three in the morning wow and um.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: The next day, um, I told my mom about the dream and I was like did you hear that cock crow at three in the morning?
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, I was up and I heard it.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: So I was like I thought it was just in my head, yeah, but she confirmed that there was um a crow outside my window at that night and you know, it was just confirming that I was on the right path, like man.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: There's power in the name of jesus yes yes it's tremendous power in his name but I don't think that your experience in the supernatural is for nothing.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: It's not just so the devil can torment you.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: I think it is to give you wisdom and understanding and knowledge and how to fight hell and how to help others in that area, because there is so, so, so much.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, we have kiddos that are fooling around in witchcraft, that don't even understand what they're doing.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: It's so commonplace right now.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah it doesn't help that this world.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: They follow certain celebrities that make it a norm.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: Right, right, and there's a lot of it in the music industry and stuff.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the way I look at stuff like that is that if the demonic is so blunt about it and doing witchcraft and all that, then there's something going on in the supernatural.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, there is, there's a revival coming and it knows that it's trying to distract individuals from.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: Because we have the power.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: We have the power.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: I think attacks will come, but they can't stay.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: I mean you know what I mean the minute that we speak the name it has to leave.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: But I think it's that fear, that intimidation that you experienced, and it's so interesting because it is so real, and I wonder to myself, Lord, what is the difference?
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Difference?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: What's happening in the difference when people have physical realities of the attack.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: Like you did, scratch marks.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: Even tucker carlson had scratch marks all across his abdomen after being attacked by a demon, and and bloody knuckles and you different things, right?
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: That is very tangible evidence and I've always wondered, like Lord, what is that?
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Why do some people have it more profoundly?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Where there's physical leftovers, if you will, of of that versus people that just might have a sleep paralysis event or or see things in the spirit you know um.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: Anyways, I wonder do you have any thoughts on that?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Have you thought?
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: about it much, or do you try?
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: To just stay away from it yeah, that's never really crossed my mind.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: Um, honestly, I feel like it happens to certain people because I think a lot of it makes me wonder do those people even believe in the supernatural, and if that's the only way god can show them that it's real?
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: right, right, you know.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: And because me, even though I knew it was real and I experienced that it was real, it took that voice and me hearing that you know demonic feminine voice scream.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: The way I heard it, the way I hear your voice.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: And it took that what made me realize, like you know what, this is real.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: This isn't a game.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: But there's, there's truth behind it, you know.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: So it caused you to believe, because you really didn't it would have been easy for you to dismiss yeah, I think if it wasn't for that, I probably would have ended up not going searching for god.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: I probably would have just been like all right, well, spell's broken.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: I could go back to my old life and go back to doing my own things.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: Just avoid girls that do that yeah so I think it was me hearing that and really like set the sound, like okay, like there's something going on here.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: This it's real, yeah, and you know, like be us, because we have nothing really to fear about it, because we know who we are in god right right.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: But the individuals, like I said, who don't know anything about god, like they don't realize that how real it really is right that you know, like people, who, who, whom get involved in that right, they don't realize that their spirit's being attached to them, even though, if they quit, those spirits are still attached to them because they opened up that door right right.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: So it's just like I said, it's just God.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: I think God's doing something amazing.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: I do too.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: I think there's a revival coming.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: I do too.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I feel it.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: Even though they are involved in that kind of stuff.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: It makes me, gives me hope that they're curious about the supernatural.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: So if they're, curious about the dark.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: They don't realize that there's light too right, that's more powerful than that right and I think you see a lot throughout um social media.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: A lot of ex warlocks, wizards, witches are coming to god right and it's because they were curious.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: I want they're curious into the supernatural and they thought that that was the way that the devil had all the power, and soon it took God interviewing to realize that there is a God and that God has all power, and it just gives me hope, even though they're involved in that that this world is curious about the supernatural.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: They're involved in that.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: That this world is curious about the supernatural Because I feel, like I said it last Wednesday, is that the world has done a good job at numbing us at the supernatural and making us spiritually blind to the spirit realm.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: Because I think Stone King said it, he said what you see in the physical.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: Before it happened, it happened in the supernatural, in spiritual?
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, it did.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: And to me.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: I truly believe that's so true.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: And when we walk in the spirit, the spirit also goes before us, so we can know and see what God is going to do in the spirit before it manifests in the natural, because that's what happened with the children of Israel.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: There was always the pillar of fire and the cloud that went before them.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: And that's how the spirit of God works, in our life too.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: So when we walk in the spirit, he is preparing us for what's coming.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: When we walk in the Spirit, he is preparing us for what's coming.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: That's why we feel this anticipation and excitement and what God is doing.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah 100%.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Whatever we see manifest in the natural was already completed in the spiritual.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: So prayer is super, super important.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, most definitely.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: I think that's the number one thing that the devil tries to get us to lack in is prayer, because there's so much things that happens in prayer.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: The.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: Bible says that.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: One of the things that stands out to me is when Samson was born, or the angel came and visited Samson's parents and he said, um that, no, they're gonna bear a son who's gonna be a judge.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: And I I don't know a word for word, but they're, they go and they set, I think, incense and build an altar, and the angel carries that incense.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: And that's how prayer is.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: Is that incense?
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: incense before the lord and you know this is just my own thought, but when jesus did, when he multiplied, he did the miracles.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: He multiplied with the bread of fish and loaves right, he multiplied the bread right, and that represented his word that when you, when you invest in his word, it's going to multiply in your life.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: That's what I believe.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: I could be wrong, it's just my own thought, but when he did, when he describes, you know he's the wine and he's a bread, right, and what's the miracle that he did with the wine was at the at the um, the wedding yeah, but he converted the water to the exact volume of wine.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: He didn't multiply it, it was the exact same amount.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: And that's how I feel.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: How prayer is in our life is that you're gonna get out of prayer exactly what you put into it.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: So if you, you know that you're gonna get as close to god as you want to get to close to God, and how, if you want to only put five minutes into prayer, like you can't expect God to hand you the keys and you do all these miracles, you know what I mean, because you're just investing a little bit of time with him, you know, and that's just the way I look at prayer.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: Right, right and my life is that you're're gonna get what you put into it right, you're gonna get out of it.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, so good, so good, um, okay, well, so where do you like chris?
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: What do you want from god?
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: What do you want from god in the supernatural and and in the physical, for your life and for your family?
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: I know you want your kids to be filled, but what is the desire of your heart in the Lord?
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: Honestly, just to do what he called me to do.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: I know we're all called to reach the lost.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: That's a big burden.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: For me is reaching the lost um going out, outreaching.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 3: You know a lot of people.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: You know a lot of people don't like door knocking anymore, which I totally get um, but me personally is like I, I want to be out, out in the forefront you know, and you know whether I see results or not.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know until I do it you know what's.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: What's it going to hurt them saying no, that's it.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Well, my last guest, victor Milano, is a result the whole Milano family which is vast is a result from Sunday school ministry.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Riding the.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: Sunday school bus.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: So I do think that we're going to see a resurrection of the Sunday school ministry and door knocking.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: I really kind of think we're going to go back to the basics, because it worked and I think it still works.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's Brother Urshan.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: Nathaniel Urshan, that's the way he started.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: Churches was door knocking.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: Urchin, nathaniel urchin, um, that's the way he started churches was door knocking.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 3: And, um, I remember I think I think he was at another church and the minister was like oh, don't, I can, don't work, no more.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: He's like well, you know what, why don't you, why don't you come with me and we'll just go knock a couple doors on saturday morning.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: And, if I'm not mistaken, they went.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: I think it was the first door they went to.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: They knocked and I think the foundation inviter said who they are and having a revival, and the morning inviter to church and this and that.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: And the woman's response was like man, I've been praying for God to send someone to me and just little things like that make me hope.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: Like I said, know a lot of people don't believe in door knocking anymore like, and I understand that.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: It's just I feel like we got to put ourselves and how are we gonna?
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: We could reach people through restaurants, going out and about in life.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: You know that's something that we should be doing yeah but making that extra effort to go out of your way, whether it's hot, cold or maybe it's inconvenient for you, that sacrifice that you're doing, I think god will honor it and lead you to somebody well, I think people's hearts are hungry for god.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like that is changing and people are really.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: I think people are just more open to the Lord.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: You know, there's such a polarity now in the world.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: You're either this side or you're that side, and that line in the sand is getting so much wider that I think you know the scripture that the fields are wide unto harvest.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like we are in that place where it the fields are white and people are ready yeah you know to to open their door to somebody that's knocking yeah, yeah, I truly believe it too
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: yeah and like my approach would be, um is, before I go out, just pray that god lead me to where you want me to go yeah because I believe he would.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: He'll give you a clear direction of what, whether it's to go to a park, a neighborhood apartment complex, whatever it may be.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 3: I think if we seek, seek after him, he'll lead us to somebody.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: We just got to be those willing vessels and laborers for his kingdom.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: Well, Chris, I love your wife to death.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, I just love her.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: I love her too.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: She will make a great pastor's wife one day.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: I mean she's already.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: She's fabulous, but I've heard you preach twice now and I just think you exude such a humility.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: That is a blessing to me, and when I've heard you speak, I've enjoyed it every time, so I'm really excited that you're at our church and I'm super excited about what God has in store for you in the future.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: To reach the lost, because we need to reach them.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: What would you say?
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: I always end with two questions.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: What would you say to the person out there who might be battling demonic oppression, uh, demonic attacks, who might be on the fence about returning to the lord or giving their life to the lord for the first time?
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: What would you say to that person?
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: I would tell them that god is the answer, that they could go through therapy which there's nothing wrong with that and they could get medication, they could go through a program, but what's truly going to heal them is going to be only God and I'm a living example of that and that God loves them no matter what, no matter what they've done, no matter where they're at, no matter what situation they find themselves in currently, that God will leave the 99 for that.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: One individual condemnation or their past or individuals prevent them from living for God, because God is the only one that's going to truly set them free, and that's all they need is Jesus in their lives.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: I, I went 19 years of my life without Jesus and when I finally gave my life to God, I can say with no doubt that is the best decision I ever made in my life.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: I now have a beautiful family.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 3: I'm married, we have our own house now, and if God did it for me, he'll do it for anybody.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: That's what I would tell him.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how many years have you been living for him now?
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: in august will be 15 years wow, that's wonderful I can't wait till I get to 20.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: So I say I've been living for god more than when I was living for the world.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: And what would you say to the parent out there who you know might be like your mom struggled with her child, or the parent or the loved one watching someone experience what you went through?
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: What would you say to them?
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: I would tell them that don't quit on your child.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: Fight for them, which I know every mother will.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: It's just you need to.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: Are you doing it by your own might or your own strength, which is only going to get you so far?
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: You need to have God with you.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: You need to have God in your life.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: You need to be praying for your son Because, whether you're living for God or not, I believe God truly honors the prayer of a mother, because no one could pray for their child like a mother can.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: Your mom was very instrumental in protecting you and helping you and keeping you throughout.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if she would listen to the family members and put me in a mental asylum, like I said, I don't know where I would be at right now yeah.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: But she, you know, I'm thankful that she did have at least a background of God.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: And she knows because she, you know, I'm thankful that she did have at least a background of God.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: And she knows because she you know, I think she was she has a Holy Ghost and been baptized in Jesus name, so that's something you can't ever get away from.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: Right, right yeah.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: And.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: But I would tell the mother, you know, don't give up.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: Don't give up, like you mean more to your child than what you think you do.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: You are their lifeline, and that's what I would tell the mother.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, Chris.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: And for anyone watching, he just preached a great message last week on the Pentecostal Lighthouse YouTube page.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: You can listen to him preach on the Pentecostal Lighthouse YouTube page.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: You can listen to and preach.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: And for anyone else out there, if you're a backslider and you want to share your testimony, please feel free to email us, call us.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: All the information is on our YouTube page or our podcast page, but we would love to hear from you, and so thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: God bless.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Visit our website at kathychastaincom.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.