Latest / Hiking without a stitch / EP. 20 - Single Girl in a Nudist World: Breaking Barriers & Building Community With Erin

Transcript

EP. 20 - Single Girl in a Nudist World: Breaking Barriers & Building Community With Erin · Hiking without a stitch

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Who first told you to cover up?
0:02
SPEAKER_01: What if the truth is too fair in nature isn't changed all?
0:05
SPEAKER_01: Stealing it reconnects you to your body and to the natural world.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Get naked, be free, and be kind.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I'll share my journey into naturism, stories from the trail, and conversations with others who have found freedom in the open air.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: We talk about how she found naturism, what it's like being a woman in this community, and why creating safe, welcoming spaces is so important.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: I had a really great time with this conversation, and I think you'll enjoy listening to it.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: How's it going, Erin?
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming on.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: I would love to start um kind of at the beginning of your journey.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Do you for people that may not know who you are, can you tell people a little bit about yourself and kind of how you got into naturism?
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I am kind of in like the relative scheme of the world, a baby naturist.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have only been a naturist for about four years.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Um I started out by going to a nude beach um in New Jersey, and I got hooked by an awesome group of people over there.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And then I started working at a nudist resort.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: So I worked at a Lake Como nudish resort for about a year, and then I went out on my own and am now just starting this movement to really get younger people and women to understand that it is safe and it is a welcoming community and it is not everything that the public makes it seem.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Yep, and that's that's part of the reason that I've really wanted to talk to you because the educational aspect of what you do on your um Instagram and other platforms.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's really cool to see.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Can you walk me through what that first visit to uh Nude Beach was like and kind of what drew what caused you to go to the Nude Beach, I guess?
2:13
SPEAKER_01: What was the allure?
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: So um I actually lost a pretty tremendous amount of weight.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: I have rheumatoid arthritis, and I had gained a lot of weight due to medications and steroids and things like that.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I had done a lot of work to lose all the weight, and um, but I was having this really bad body image issue still.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't see who I was, and I kept seeing I called her fat Erin and I was so negative about myself and so mean to myself.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And so I was trying to figure out why and what to do.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: So I went on a deep dive on the internet and I found an article about naturism, and it really like got at the heart of like kids that grow up in naturism don't have the same body image issues we do because we're taught them and we're taught to hate ourselves, and that kids that grow up like this they don't have those issues.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: And I found that fascinating.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: So then I had to do a deep dive, and then I found a nude beach in New Jersey, Gunnison.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, all right, let's do this.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: And I went in a long strapless maxi dress with nothing else on.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: So I knew I would be completely uncomfortable in that at the beach, and I would have no choice but to take it off.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: So I get to the beach, I lay out my towel.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Um at Gunnison, they have like the ADA mat.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: So I like set up right next to the mat so that if I had to run away because I was scared, I was like super close to the mat and I could run.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I set up there, I took up my dress and I loved it.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: It was, I don't know, just something so freeing going into the ocean like that, not having a wet bathing suit clinging to me, sand getting stuck in your bathing suit.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Like it was just awesome.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I got sand on me, I rinsed it off, and there was nothing, it was it was really great.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did have the experience of I'm there for 10 minutes, you know, a guy walks up to me and is like, I guess your butt's burning.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you need me to put some lotion on you.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I roll my eyes, but there was a group not far from me of I call them like true nudists, and they kind of rescued me.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: They kind of told him to like bug off and told me to come sit by them, and then they really explained to me what naturism is.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: They've been going since the 60s, and yeah, it changed my life.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: That's super cool.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: So they basically just walked up and were like, hey man, that's not cool, or or whatever the the interaction was.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: They I mean they didn't even walk up, they kind of yelled at them from their chairs and told them to F off.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, You come here, come sit by us, we got you.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you you said that um in pre-re recording when we talked that you probably wouldn't have returned if you know um they hadn't intervened, which I thought was super cool because those kind of moments can change everything from a positive moment to a really negative moment.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: If I only had that guy's interaction, I would have been like, ugh, I'm a piece of meat here.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's looking at me.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: It's a thing.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: But these people made me feel like I'm a human, and then they explained to me, and and they've been coming since the 60s, and the changes that have happened.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: It's actually that's kind of what started my history love of it was these people telling me what the beach was like back in the 60s.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: And there used to be a margarita bar on the beach that isn't there anywhere and have all the beach yet.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: You kind of got to see like the both sides, the real nudist and someone with like ill intentions.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: And I really reached out to you recently about a post that you did about an interaction you had with um someone that you thought you were reaching out for information about an upcoming like beach trip, and then it kind of turned weird.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: If you feel comfortable, do you want to kind of go over that um interaction and and talk about that?
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: So um I love to travel and I had just done this kind of crazy awesome road trip from New Jersey to Florida, and as I was planning it, I wanted to go to Playa Linda Beach.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I'd never been, right?
6:16
SPEAKER_00: So I've been to Hollover Beach, um, I've been to Apollo, I've been to Gunnison, but I hadn't been to Playa Linda.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: And as a solo naturist, right, like I need to make sure that these beaches are safe.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: In my experience, I did not feel comfortable solo at Hollover.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: I have no problem going as a group, but as a solo, I didn't feel comfortable there.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: I go to Gunnison by myself all the time, I'll go to Apollo.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: So I reached out in um in a group, an apply lender group, just saying, hey, is this a safe beach to go to?
6:47
SPEAKER_00: And they said, Oh, yeah, it's fine.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And someone had messaged me and was saying, Listen, if you're feeling uncomfortable, I go to the beach all the time.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: This is a really safe space.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, if you want, we can meet, whatever.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And so we were just a very casual conversation about the beach.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, he said, Oh, I just saw your Instagram page.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And I went, Okay.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: And then the conversation turned sexual immediately.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And it was, Oh, um, I have an OF page.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: You want to come perform on my page with me?
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No, I don't want that at all.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I want to go to the beach, and it it got so I literally just had to block the person, be like, nope, now we're not.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And I actually didn't end up going to Playa Linda because then I was like, I felt uncomfortable.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: It's not the beach's fault, but that interaction made me just feel uncomfortable.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what's that's what's so uh upsetting about these kind of interactions because you weren't looking for attention and like just the presence of nudity.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: It's funny that he brought up your your Instagram page because your Instagram page is non-sexual, it's advice.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: It's like what did what did you see there that made you think that this is what I was looking for?
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, just my body.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: I just become an object.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: It's super weird.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Um you said something too in your post that I really that really resonated with me, and it was uh being nude doesn't erase the importance of boundaries, it makes them more important.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: And like I really love that because it's super true.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: What did that mean to you when like what did you mean by that?
8:22
SPEAKER_01: And like what why do those boundaries become even more important in a clothing optional space?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: So we are at our most vulnerable, right?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: When we are nude, we're in these spaces, and people are really seeing us for who we are, right?
8:36
SPEAKER_00: They are not seeing who we want them to see, right?
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Because when you're in the textile world, you can put clothes on, you can put makeup on, you can do whatever you want to alter who you are.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And I I call it your armor, right?
8:48
SPEAKER_00: You go out, and this is who I want the world to see me as.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, and when you're in the nudest world, you don't have that armor.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: So you're really in a vulnerable space.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean that it's automatically I'm nude, you can come up and touch me, or I'm nude, you can you can, you know, sit right practically on top of me.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll be at a bar, and normally, you know, in the tech style world, you always leave a seat.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Unless there's no seats, then you leave a seat.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: But you know, if you go to the nudest world, that doesn't automatically mean you sit in a seat right next to me.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: You can leave a seat, it's okay.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: So you you need to protect your boundaries and and know what you are.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: And there are clothing optional spaces that are swinger spaces, right?
9:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't, you know, those aren't what I talk about, but even in those spaces, people have boundaries and they discuss and they respect what they are willing to do, what they aren't willing to do.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: So the whole world isn't just this assumption of like because you're nude, I get to see more of you nude, right?
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a big thing on social media that I get all the time.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, you're naked.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: You'll see on my post, turn around and show me your boobs.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yep.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: No, like I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it for me.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's a big part of it.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and well, even as a woman, you I know that you get probably way more of that energy, but even myself on on Instagram, I'll get messages from from guys that are like, hey, you know, you should uncensor your photo so I can see your penis.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm not I'm not I don't share that.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: It's like that's not the point of me getting it.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: That's not the point of it.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: So it's really it's interesting because being so active on social media it does open up a weird kind of portal that people get to uh interact and experience our everyday lives, and they just get really odd about it.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh-uh.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh and it it that just leads me into like uh we hear all the time in these spaces, well, why aren't more women in it?
10:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think like the better question is how do we create safe spaces and interact in a way where women actually feel safe enough to show up and be involved?
10:59
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, seeing the people that are bad actors are really ruining it.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: It is, it it's true.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: It's a few bad apples make it really hard for women to feel safe, right?
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Because even and it's not honestly, it's not just men.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: I was at a resort once and a woman got her monthly, right?
11:19
SPEAKER_00: And so she was wearing a bathing suit bottom, and someone at this club just started screaming at her because she was in the pool area with the bathing suit bottom on, and she was like, Well, I just can't, and they're like, then just leave.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: And so she did.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's like that experience has now she's probably never coming back to a nature space.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Now we lost a young woman, right?
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Because this other individual just there, there's no boundaries, and it's like it's biology that isn't it, wasn't like she was doing it to be anything, it's like yeah, it's so it's a really hard, it's not just men, because this was a woman that yelled at her that do this.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting, yeah.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: And it it's it's hard to make people understand that, like, especially women, right?
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Because we do go to these spaces and we are the minority, right?
12:08
SPEAKER_00: It is uh when I was working at Como, the ratio was 10 to 1 male to women.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, right?
12:15
SPEAKER_00: So that is a huge difference, and even of that, half of the people that lived there were couples, and the women didn't really come out and participate as much.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: The men were out, the women lived there, and they and they were fine, but they didn't really come out and go to like yeah, I'm like one of maybe four women at the pool with like 30 men around us, 40 women or 40 men around us.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And we are already feeling a little bit conscious, right?
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Because we're the only woman there.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: We're like, is everybody staring at me?
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Everybody has that little bit of doubt in them.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: So then when a bad interaction happens, that can be the end of it for some people.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: What do you wish?
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess talking about those interactions, how could we shape these interactions to be different?
13:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you wish men knew at say a resort or at a nude beach interacting with women?
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Because I think men um, even if they're not being creepy on purpose, they'll go out of their way to show attention and like you said, sit too close, and hey, well, who what's your name?
13:21
SPEAKER_01: It's like, ugh.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I have to, it's very funny.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: At one of the resorts that Sarah and I went to, um every man walked up to us to tell us how safe this place was for women, and it made us feel more unsafe.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was just gonna ask everyone's like, this is the safest place as a woman you could ever be.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: And we're like, why are seven different men telling us this?
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Should I feel unsafe?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: I was like, this feels like cultish a little bit.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Like Sarah and I at this point, like we know, we know how they meant it, but again, if we were different people, we would have taken it completely differently, and it could have been a really, really negative situation.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: I I think people just need to realize like there was another resort that I went to, and everybody that was in the pool was staring at us because we were new.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Now I think they wanted to talk to us, but they were scared to talk to us.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: And so they just stared, which that's like the number one thing you don't do as a nature is just stare at people.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: So it's like these little things that you're not mindful of, but it really does have an effect because I said I was like, that was so uncomfortable.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I want to go back to that resort.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: It was like, yeah, out of all the resorts we went to, I was like, I don't know that that's that's the one I'm getting the vibes from.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: And it was just have normal conversations.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't just walk up to someone, and not everyone is comfortable sharing their nature story.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Not everyone's comfortable.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: I am, but so the first question can't always be, how long have you been a nudist?
15:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, it could just be like, hey, what book are you reading?
15:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, like something casual, something interesting.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is, I think resorts have to do something that make women feel welcoming.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm trying to form some women, um, women's only retreats at different clubs to see if we can get women that feel safe together, and then maybe they'll feel safe on their own.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: That's super cool.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: With with trying to introduce women to Naturism, with your Instagram page and other socials, are do you see a lot of new women kind of reaching out and and showing interest?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually I actually have.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, overwhelmingly, it's men that are my followers.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: However, I have been getting a lot of messages from women.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: I got one yesterday um that her and I had been going back and forth that she's going to a nude resort for the first time.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: She was super nervous.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: She just wanted some advice on like how to shake her nerves.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: And her and I had been talking for a couple days, and she went yesterday and had an amazing experience.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: So oh, that's so awesome.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: I was like, that one made every bad comment worth it.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are the most common um concerns women have about going to nude resorts or having their first clothing optional uh experience?
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Hands down, the first is that they don't think their body is good enough.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Hands down.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did a video on this the other day, but if men want their partners to go with them to these resorts, they need to make these women know that they're beautiful in their own skin and just tell them when they get out of the shower and their hair is matted to their head and they look like a mess.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you look beautiful when they don't have their armor on them.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, only telling them they're beautiful when they have their makeup on, and only telling them they're beautiful when they have their dresses on make it reinforces the fact that they're only beautiful when they are made up.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: So then when they go to these spaces, they don't feel okay because they don't have their makeup on.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some people do, some nature's wear makeup.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: I I don't.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Some do.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I just like to go hiking and sweat a lot.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, it'll just run down my face.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: It would be really ugly.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: So um, but I think that if we just A get out there that not everyone is perfect, for some reason, women have it in their head that they can't go to a nudist resort unless they are a size four with like 36 C cups and like no wrinkles, no nothing.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, guys, I promise you, if you go, no one is like that.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Ever.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: It it that what you just said kind of reminds me, my wife and I were speaking about this a little bit, and she was telling me a story about her going to a new friend's house, and her friend kept apologizing, oh, you know, my house isn't good enough and it's dirty, and this and that, and my wife's like, Your house is lived in.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I took that as like our bodies are lived in.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: This is our vehicle for you know, right now, and so the more that you can get connected and realize that you are good enough, it's a beautiful thing.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: So I really like what you're doing online and sharing that um in a really great way.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Um you mentioned hiking.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Where do you go hiking around like where you're at or at like um resorts?
18:43
SPEAKER_00: So um I'm not far from Rock Lodge Resort in New Jersey, and so they have their own hiking trails, which is cool because it goes up into the mountains.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: So I love that because it's completely enclosed.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: You can't end up in the textile world, but you're still getting a good hike in.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Um I went on it's funny.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: When I lived at Como, I would call them um walks in nature because hiking in Florida is not hiking.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all flat, it's all sand, but there are trees around you.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: So that's how all the places are in Florida.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I do trails anytime I go to any resort.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I have a couple like sneaky ones that I know that no one really goes to.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I can go here.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was in Mammoth National Park, which was super risky for me to do, but it was pouring rain, and I was like, no one's gonna be hiking in the rain right now.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: So I just like went for a big hike in Mammoth in the rain.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Um in Florida, when you were what like taking those walks, was there any?
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess I'm just curious about wildlife.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Was there any like dangerous wildlife that you have to be aware of in your little thing?
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Everything wants to kill you in Florida.
19:58
unknown: Yeah.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: It's like what's the case?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Same here.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm in Arizona.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Florida and Arizona have like bizarre animals that can hurt you.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Everything wants to harm you.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: There was a snake once.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: I oh gosh, I hate snakes.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: I hate snakes.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: And there was a snake, and it went from like the dock all the way up to the roof of where the bar was.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, is this an Anaconda?
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't understand.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, and people are like, it's just a snake, he's fine.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: I was like, he's not fine.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: There's fire ants everywhere.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, you have to watch where you step because you will get eaten alive.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And my spirit animal is a spider monkey.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I kind of climb in trees everywhere.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: I climb on rocks, like, I just I go everywhere and I don't look.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: So even when Sarah and I were at serendipity, I started climbing in rocks and I started climbing in the river, and I was I was in trees and everything.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden they sit up, I was like, my back is really itchy, and I turn around and she's like, Erin, and my whole back was in hives.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: I had to take Benadryl and get like it was terrible, but I don't look.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, everything wants to kill you.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's funny.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of your road trip, how what was that like?
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Did you do you have any like favorite resorts that you visited?
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Or hands down.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hands down.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, my top two were well, okay.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Resort Cypress Cove is a resort, right?
21:22
SPEAKER_00: It is you go there, they have multiple pools, restaurants, bars, like it is top-notch, hands down, the king of nudic resorts.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: But my favorite were Whispering Pines and Serendivity.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And they do not have any of that, they are campgrounds.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: And um oh, interesting.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Whispering Pines, the community there was so incredible.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: A I loved walking their trails.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Like literally, I'm walking in the woods, and all of a sudden I walk up to a swing set just in the middle of the woods.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I just start swinging facing the trees.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: It's like they're This was a true forest bath, like just loving every second.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: No one was around.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was able to do yoga out on the trails, it was amazing.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, their cabins are adorable.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they have this little A-frame that I can't like I need to go back and stay in it.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, we were in a place called Margaritaville.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: It was a we had a wraparound porch, like it was really great, but we were just out walking and we saw some people playing cornhole and we're like, Hey, what are you guys doing?
22:25
SPEAKER_00: And they invited us to play.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: I'd never played before, so I started playing cornhole with these people.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: We go up to the pool, everybody was talking to us.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: It was so warm and so welcoming.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have a single restaurant, they didn't have a bar, they didn't have anything.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: We just went, and as we left that place, the next door neighbor gave us a care package, like literally of like Tony's chocolonies and some strawberries and things like that.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: We felt so a part of that family after one day.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: It was incredible.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: It was that sounds amazing.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: And then Serendipity was my other one, and um, it was recently purchased by a couple because they didn't want to see another Anna Club close.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Mmm, that's awesome.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And so they were like, we're gonna save this place, we're gonna fix it.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: And even um, they had they hold the Anna summer camp every year.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And Anna's no longer gonna do it.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: They've been, they have not gotten enough kids to sign up, but serendipity's like, we're gonna try to continue to do it on our own since the kids have been coming here for so long.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: So they're trying to save the summer camp.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: And interesting.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: They just have such great ideas.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: And again, it was they don't have a restaurant, they don't have a bar.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: I was sitting down by the pool and somebody's like, Hey, I think I'm gonna order pizza.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, I'll go in on that with you.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, don't worry about it.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: He comes back with five pies, shares it with everybody around.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Someone else comes over with a bottle of jack, someone comes with soda, and we all are just having this impromptu like potluck.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: That's so badass, right?
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what this community is about.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, we're just we just come together, you know, and have amazing conversations.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: We're sharing stories, and uh yeah, it was awesome.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Just a side question with the uh kids summer camp, do they allow um like donations to pay for like a kid to go to the summer camp?
24:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think they would.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: I might reach out to them and figure out how to promote that or something.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they are awesome.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: The the new owners are and the the community has welcomed the new owners because you always never know how that's gonna go, right?
24:30
SPEAKER_00: You have a new owner and they can hate it.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: They have embraced them, they have helped them.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Um they had a flood in one of their cabins, and the community came together and helped ripped out the floor and helped get everything ready so that the people that were staying in the cabin in like two weeks had a perfectly renovated place to go to.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And we got there, they were literally like sweeping it out and like getting handing them the keys.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the community did that.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have a maintenance guy, they didn't have anybody, they just came together and fixed it.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's amazing.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: That's super cool.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's exactly what this community is about.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Um coming together like that and having events that build community and bring people together.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: You talked about a naked skating event that you did.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Were you were you involved in setting that up, or was that just an event that you joined?
25:23
SPEAKER_00: You oh no, it was my it was my brainchild.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's awesome.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: So I had said to my boss, um, I really wanted to do nude skating at Lake Como, and I was trying to figure out where we could do it.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, because you need a big area, and so we had this parking lot by the tennis courts, and I was like, could we do it there?
25:42
SPEAKER_00: But it's all brick pavers, and they were like, No, it'll be too bumpy, can't do it.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like, what if we don't let anybody park by the office and we make an oval here and it was like a little too gravelly?
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And so um someone in the office had said, Well, there's a skating rink not too far from us, and uh, why don't you call them?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Good idea.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: So I called them, the owners were super awesome, and uh yeah, we we had booked up to 75.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: We easily could have had 100 to 150 because that day we had closed that we were like, nope, we reached capacity, and we were still getting phone calls and still getting phone calls about people that wanted to do it.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: What uh what was that initial conversation like with uh the textile business?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Because I I'm assuming they're not normally a nude skating rink.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: They're probably they are not a nude skating rink, and I do want to give them so much credit.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: They were so warm and they were so welcoming, and they are not naturists, they're not nudists at all.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Um when I first called them.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing you have to understand about Florida is Florida is the nudest capital of the world, right?
26:49
SPEAKER_00: There's over 21 different naturist clubs in it, and in Pasco County, which is where Lake Como is located, there's 13 alone.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's not not odd to it's not foreign.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: So um when I had called and I had said, I know this is an off-the-wall idea, but would you consider doing this as I see that you do private rentals because they do private rentals all the time for corporate things?
27:14
SPEAKER_00: I said, Do you would you consider doing a private rental?
27:16
SPEAKER_00: I see that you guys are closed on Tuesday.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Could we do it on Tuesday so that we don't risk any public like coming in?
27:25
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, they basically were like, We opened this place 20 years ago and we had joked about doing a nude skate night once a month since we opened.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, So they weren't actually that surprised by it.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: They were just like, Yeah, sure.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the coolest part about it is when I was discussing with them, they said, I have three questions for you.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay, go ahead.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: They said, one, can you please make sure everybody has a towel or something to sit on?
27:52
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yep, we're nudists, we know we have to do that.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And I said, We'll even bring extra towels and just make sure.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Two, they said, Do you want our staff to be nude?
28:01
SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, no, no, we don't expect that.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: I said, you know, we go on nude cruises, the cruise chip people are never undressed, we do bowling, like we don't ever expect that.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: This is our world, not yours.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: We never force it on anybody.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: So no, please be dressed.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, unless they want to be dressed, and that's up to you.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: That's you between you and your employees.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: And then the third question they said, Do you want us to cover our security cameras for your privacy?
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And that question made me be like, this is a safe space.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Because no one else would have thought of that.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't even think about that they would have had security cameras, but the fact that they thought about our privacy, I was like, I like this place.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: I really, I felt really great.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what a great um, what a great thought.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Because I wouldn't have thought about like, oh, that we have images now of us naked on security cameras that who knows who has access to them or anything.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't even gonna occur to me, but the fact that they thought about it made me feel so safe bringing my business there.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: So we're actually uh working with them to do another one in October.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so cool.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they they were pretty awesome.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Actually, they were getting a lot of heat on their social media about oh, interesting, having it.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and to the point where they were getting anxious.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, I actually contacted the police department and I was like, Hey, do you mind having some people in the parking lot or just do some drive-bys because we're getting nervous?
29:24
SPEAKER_00: People, you know, people people are keyboard warriors, right?
29:26
SPEAKER_00: They say all the nasty things and they just kept saying, like, you're gonna let people's butt juices get all over your furniture.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: It was and the owner actually got on and she goes, Do you understand that how much vomit and diarrhea and blood I clean up from your children all the time?
29:44
SPEAKER_00: These people are way cleaner than any of you or your rug rats are.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: So please stop.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: What for anyone that was like interested in reaching out to like a textile business to see if they could do like a nude uh event there, what tips would you give someone?
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Because that's something that really interests me here in Tucson.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: I would love to see like a nude bowling or a nude um you know skate skate night or something.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: That would be super awesome.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: So honestly, you don't get anywhere if you don't ask.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: So I I shoot for the stars and I figure the worst they can say is no.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: So ask somebody, but but go in prepared and just say, you know, you're gonna bring towels, you're gonna ensure this, you're gonna.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: We had extra volunteers, right?
30:31
SPEAKER_00: That were door people and they were dressed and they were at the door and they made sure that nobody came in or out.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to basically make it them understand that you're not asking them to do any other work, any additional work.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: The hardest thing that you're gonna find is um, you know, where I was working was a family nudist resort.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to make it open to the family.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: The textile world is not comfortable with that, yeah, at all.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And so we had to agree that it would be an 18 and up event.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: So I think that will be most public events, will be 18 and up.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Even though we understand that kids are safe in this space, the public doesn't understand it.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And even for like this, the roller skating event, they only had 18 and up staff working because they didn't want any of the which I completely understand, I completely respect.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: So you just gotta go in with those things that it's get it out of your head if it's gonna be a family event.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: The public is not gonna allow that to happen.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: No, and I I totally understand that.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, just with the climate that we have um in in our world right now.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh, I know I get it.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Um please.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: I have this dream.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: If anybody of your listeners have a couple million dollars to just throw out, I want to take an old mall and convert it into a nudist resort, like an interior resort.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Right?
31:56
SPEAKER_00: There's all these decaying malls all over America.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: We can have indoor pools and pickleball courts and volleyball courts and bars and restaurants and movie theaters, bowling alleys in a mall.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Dude, that would be awesome.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh when uh when you did that nude skating event, what surprised you like once people started showing up?
32:21
SPEAKER_00: How many young people showed up?
32:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you go to nudist resorts, I'm probably one of the youngest people there, right?
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm 40.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm by far the youngest person there.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And when I was at this event, I was very median age.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: We had 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds, 40-year-olds.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: How interesting.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: A lot of the older people didn't want to skate for obvious reasons.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: No one wants to get hurt, but it was so interesting that so many young people were there.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, but they don't go to clubs.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Why don't they go to clubs?
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: So I found that to be really fascinating about how many young people were there.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Do you why do you think that more young people showed up to like an event like that, kind of more in the textile realm than you know, people showing up traditionally to clubs or like resorts?
33:20
SPEAKER_00: I hear over and over and over that they do not feel welcome at the clubs.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: So unfortunately, all of these clubs were started 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, right?
33:33
unknown: Yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: And people have been with these clubs since then.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: And they are set in their ways.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And so they aren't exactly opening their arms, and all of the clubs say, We want younger people, we want younger people, we want younger people, but we don't want to change anything, and we don't want to do anything that younger people enjoy, but we want younger people.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: So what do you think is the is the answer?
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Like what would they need to change other than their like mindset of we don't want to, you know, adjust how we're doing?
34:04
SPEAKER_01: Like what what kind of events or things at resorts would draw in the younger people do you think?
34:10
SPEAKER_00: So one of the other things that I um had done was I did a nude laser tag.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: So I called a laser tag truck.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And they came in and and we did nude laser tag.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: I did um a nude Nerf gun fight.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: So like in the woods, like we just went around and shot each other with Nerf guns, and then that's awesome.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: When it was over, we you know, like when they're searching for a body, you do like a grid walk.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Like we did that to pick up all the nerf guns so we didn't leave them in the woods.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: So um we did um we did beer pong, you know, like a beer pong tournament.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: So like you you just gotta think about things outside of the box.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Like everybody does volleyball.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I don't know.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Out in Arizona is volleyball is big.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: I know on the east of the Mississippi, volleyball's huge.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: I honestly wouldn't know.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't follow the volleyball scene, so I'm not sure, but I don't I don't think it's as huge like in Arizona, yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: In so basically, the East Coast, volleyball is nudism.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: There are so many volleyball tournaments.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: There's basically a volleyball tournament every other weekend if you look for it at different reserves.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I don't play volleyball, and I get asked all the time, why don't you play volleyball?
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you play volleyball?
35:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I I love my nails.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Listen, I don't do a lot of things, but I love my nails, and I'm not gonna play volleyball.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: But we need to do things other than volleyball because there are other people that are not quite as sporty.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: So more diverse, like um community-building events that bring it to the city.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: So I have a friend that was doing uh she did an acro yoga event that brought like over a hundred people to come and and it's gonna grow this year, which is super awesome.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: But that is a lot, again, a lot of younger people.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: And those are people they may not necessarily have been nudists when they came in, right?
36:05
SPEAKER_00: There was a couple that were not nudists, but exactly as they were there the weekend, they kind of became nudists and they just kind of have joined in.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing with like life drawing, right?
36:15
SPEAKER_00: So we did life drawing um uh at Lake Como, and there was a group, like these people are used to nudity, right?
36:22
SPEAKER_00: So, like the local college students that we would advertise there and they were coming and doing life drawing there, and then they would stay and they would go to the bar and they would hang out, and it was like oh, that's cool.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to try to recruit textiles that don't know it, you know.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not trying to recruit anybody to nudism or naturism, but if people have an interest and people have that curiosity, I want to help them develop that.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which I think is super cool, and that's kind of what I've been seeing in the outdoor spaces as well.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people that don't think of themselves as naturist or nudists, but they like hot springing or they like sunbathing or they like naked hiking, and it's like just just because you don't subscribe to the label doesn't mean you shouldn't care about the overall whole of you know non sexual nudity and nude recreation, and like the clubs are a part of that, and we're seeing more clubs kind of shut down and become textile a lot, lifestyle resorts.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's like I guess too I I want to make the point that younger naturists should care um Absolutely about these clubs getting shut down because take me for example, I don't go to clubs very often, they're kind of far away, so I don't re I've only been to one.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean I don't know.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: I've only been to one so far.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, it's like they keep getting shut down, and public land spots uh uh are losing their clothing optional statuses, and as a collective group, whether you like hot springing or going to clubs or hiking, you know, we're all interconnected and should be helping each other build this community up and maintain and protect what we have because once it's gone traditionally, once something's gone, it's it's done.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: We've seen that in other, yeah, other areas of you know life.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm even getting nervous because um like Anner's numbers are down and the Nature Society's numbers are down, and it's like these are people that protect us and help with laws and help protect these spaces, and if their numbers are going down because they aren't reaching the younger people, who's gonna protect us?
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, you know, and then you look at someplace like British Naturism, right?
38:50
SPEAKER_00: And British Naturism is thriving.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can walk in this village, it's not in London, but in the villages, you can walk into a grocery store nude.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that it's just commonplace, it's kind of amazing and refreshing, but they British Naturism has done so much active work and really go pushing two younger individuals, and that's one thing that I just feel like in this country we're missing.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: We're kind of just well, we don't want to upset anybody, so we're just gonna keep everything status quo.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's like weren't you guys the rebel rousers?
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Weren't you guys the ones pushing everything in the 60s?
39:27
SPEAKER_00: And weren't you guys wanting to change?
39:29
SPEAKER_00: And now it's just like, nope, nope, can't do change.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: Don't, don't, don't rock the boat.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Don't rock the boat.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Don't bring attention.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, I it's funny you say that because when I first got into nude hiking, there's a place here in Tucson called Tank Faraday, and I had put it out online like, hey, well, why don't we, you know, talk to land managers and maybe see if this could be recognized as like an actual because right now it's tolerated nudity.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's not legal, but it's been go n nature's have been going there and skinny dipping and stuff for the last fifty years, so it's tolerated.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Um and the pushback was like, well, why would you want to bring attention to any of us?
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Don't don't do that.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, if you just don't say anything, once it once it erodes, you're you're losing what you have.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: So that's it.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, something very similar is happening at Gunnison.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: So I talked at the beginning how we have these ADA mats that go down.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, last year they took away all our lifeguards, so there's no more lifeguards at Gunnison Beach.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so swimming is technically not legal.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: Then this year they only put the ADA mats maybe a quarter of the way down.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Now, you've never been, but the walk from the parking lot to the ocean is I'm not exaggerating, about a 10 to 15 minute walk.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: It is a long through.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: And that's on like that's sand, yeah.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: That's terrible.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: So it's hard for people to walk on if, you know, like I can walk on it, it's not a big deal.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: But anybody that has any knee issues or leg issues, and let's be real, how many nudists are in their 60s and 70s?
41:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So and people keep saying online, like sign this petition, sign this petition, and you keep getting pushback.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Don't make people angry because they're gonna take it away.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: Don't make people angry because they're gonna take it away.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but they're taking it away, they're actually they're slowly eroding it.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we need to say something, and like this is what Anor's legal department is for, this is what they're they're for.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, then I talk to people on the beach and they're like, Well, what's Anna?
41:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that is, and I'm like, uh, we need to stick together.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this this whole like Anner and the environment of the slow erosion of our rights as natures.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: There's a hunting organization called um Backcountry's Hunters Hunters and Anglers, and they are basically they're very like Anner, except for the hunting world.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: And they go to bat for people and the outdoorsmen, but they do a lot of like pint nights and they attract a lot of younger crowds.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: And like their whole they remind me a lot of British Naturism and how they are, you know, bringing people together.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's real interesting to see through different uh just lenses of groups that use the outdoors and like naturists.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that that's kind of the ticket to do to to stop this.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you think about um the how do we stop the erosion?
42:31
SPEAKER_01: But and how do we get it?
42:33
SPEAKER_00: Unless we are more visible on platforms that younger people are on, right?
42:39
SPEAKER_00: So, like everybody's on Instagram, right?
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's on Snapchat, everybody's on these platforms, just doing it on your website isn't gonna do much.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, people aren't going to go looking on your website, and Facebook is an older group, you know.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, do it on Facebook.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: X has a following, but it's not the same, you know, and X, you can only get so much in.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: So you really gotta be visible where the younger people will see you, and you have to do things that younger people want to do, you know.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Why were there 700 people at Blind Creek for a skinny dip day?
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Because that's fun, it's at the beach, it's a giant skinny dip, you know.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: You gotta meet people where they're at.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: I want to I want to figure out where I can do like a beer tasting, right?
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Like a beer garden or something, or set up a beer garden at a resort and have like a local brewery come in.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: Like microbreweries are really trendy right now, right?
43:41
SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to support these local brewers.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: So let's support them.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: Let's see if they'll come out and do something at our place or we can close out their place for a night and do one there.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: Like those are the type of events that people want to go to.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:55
unknown: Yeah.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: And same thing with women's spaces.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, I love going to women's retreats.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: But not all women are crunchy granola.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: I want to sit there and meditate for two days.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, do like a wine paint.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, like how many of those paint and sip groups are around?
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Do a paint and sip.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Do that kind of stuff that women can go to and want to enjoy.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: Jewelry making.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: Things like that.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: So more more um normal, I'll say everyday thing.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Everyday stuff that you do normally out in the world, do it try and do it naked.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: Just try and do it naked.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: This is like probably one of the coolest times to be a naturist kind of um because there are so many people getting into the the platforms in the world, like yourself, and you're building solutions instead of just like complaining about problems and you're actually, you know, standing on what you say.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: What uh I would love to talk about like the organization that you're starting and like the like what you're trying to do.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: So it's in the very beginning, like brainchild world.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna take a little bit.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: But what I am trying to do is I am trying to um do these more public events in different parts around the country.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: So I want to be able to do a nude skate night somewhere, you know, in the northwest country, you know.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: I wanna I want to be able to do different types of events and especially in the winter months, right?
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Try to get a nude bowling in Michigan somewhere, you know, like try to do these kind of events so people can be nude and and have the same experiences throughout the year.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: And I want to tie women's events and women's retreats into that.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: So go to different clubs and resorts throughout the country and do women's retreats and and things like that.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's super cool.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Um We're in the brainchild stages, so yeah.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: No, no, that's that's exactly where this the movements that's exactly where they start.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: They start from an idea of I don't see this in this space or I see this need, and most people stop before they even get off the ground.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: And it never even makes it out of their brain onto the page.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: So I'd like you're you're doing awesome.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: I think the the Instagram that you have, it's always cool to see your posts and how you are responding to people and being a light in in an arena that you know can feel kind of dark and alone sometimes with people being weird or Instagram and other platforms um limiting what we can do.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Instagram put me on the wrong side of the world for a little while.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: I was getting put in the fetish category, so I was getting a lot of like no thank you, no thank you.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: And I had to like contact them constantly.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: I probably had about seven different tickets with Meta being like, this is not my space, this is not my space.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm educational, please get me out of this space.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Finally, like I the algorithm has finally figured me out.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: So finally I'm back in nature's spaces, but um and I don't yuck anybody's yum.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Listen, that's cool, but that's just not the side of the internet that I'm on.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: That's not not what I'm doing.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Is there uh is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to cover or say that that didn't get get covered?
47:19
SPEAKER_00: Don't be scared to try.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the most important thing.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, listen, don't do anything illegal.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I'm not advocating for going hiking in a national park, you know.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I did it, but don't do that if you're not trying to get arrested.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: But sit outside on your deck and read a book naked, you know, like it doesn't harm anybody.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: Just enjoy it.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: There's something so special about just like feeling the sun on your skin.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: Like I joke around that I'm solar charged, right?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Like I thrive in sunlight, and when it's cold and rainy, I just kind of like so I really I think my whole body needs the solar charge, not just you know, my wrist this much and my neck and my forehead.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just feels so good.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Um I will add your links to the uh show notes so people can follow you.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Um is there any other extra links that you you want me to share or that you'd like to shout out right now?
48:23
SPEAKER_00: So I do have um one that's a little bit controversial, so I don't know how people feel about it, but I do have a where I go into more in-depth and educational content on OnlyFans, and I know people are rolling their eyes.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
48:37
SPEAKER_00: And I said, you the reason why I'm on OnlyFans is because I am able to be completely nude and not be censored, and I can talk about my platform and what I do without being censored.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: So I do have an OnlyFans account, it is the same uh title, and um it is just where I put all my I'm actually doing one you would love today.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: I actually did the whole history of hiking naked where it started in the 1800s.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, started in the 1800s, yep, started in the 1800s.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, German and Swiss groups were really when the industrial movement was happening, they were trying to get people to go out into the city, uh out of the city and get into nature.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: And simultaneously the nature's movement was happening, and so they kind of started forming these nude hiking groups.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Mostly the Swiss and the German were forming them, but the French also did at the turn of the century.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's badass.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's all of my stuff on OnlyFans.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm the cleanest nude space on OnlyFans, I promise.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: Did have speaking of the OnlyFans before we pop off, did you get a lot of or have you gotten a lot of pushback from from the the nudest natrice?
49:46
SPEAKER_00: I I did at the beginning, and it was very interesting because um I was getting a lot of well, you can just post it on Reddit and you can just post it on X.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, yes, I can.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: However, there's no safety guards there, right?
50:01
SPEAKER_00: Like on OnlyFans, they have uh you can't screen share, you can't share anything with anybody, like what you have is yours and you can't screen grab or anything.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'm protecting myself, right?
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Like on Instagram, whatever.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: If someone sees me, you know, like nipples up, that's fine.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: But there's a very different thing for me, like being completely nude and ending up on a random porn site that I don't know, you know.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I find that the safety features for me on OnlyFans is really what sold me on it versus Reddit or or um X.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't know Patreon.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: I I'm gonna be completely honest.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: People have come to me, like, why don't you do Patreon?
50:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking into it.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: I didn't think you could be nude on Patreon.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: I heard you can if you're behind a paywall, so I'm gonna look into it a little bit.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Um there's so many, there's so many different platforms, it's hard to keep up.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's like everyone's like, Why aren't you on TikTok?
50:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Because I don't have time.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: I guess what's a little bit different for me is I do like my Facebook, I'll do like more in-depth blog-like things so people can read more on Instagram.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: It's much more my videos and my reels.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: And then on OnlyFans, it's these long videos of like history and things like that.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: So every platform is getting different content.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's killing me.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how much more I can add.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Where my friend Sarah, she's like, nope, what's on Instagrams, on TikToks, on Facebook, and that's awesome for her.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: I just I that's not me.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: That's not how my brain works.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's hard.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: You get spread so thin, and you're like, Well, did I do that and that and that?
51:39
SPEAKER_01: But it's uh, it's interesting that that again, just the presence of nudity doesn't mean that it's sexual.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: And and especially being on OnlyFans.
51:49
SPEAKER_01: There's people on OnlyFans that do cooking, they don't even they're not even nude.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: OnlyFans did not start out as a sexual site.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: The connotation is oh, they have an OnlyFans, they must be doing something sexual, which is such bullshit.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's insane.
52:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, I had one person say something to me, um, which I got a little bit offended by, where he said, Well, why why can't you just send me your content here?
52:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I won't get OnlyFans.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, it's it's my content, you know, like you would pay an author for their book, or you would pay, you know, a movie maker for their movie, like you would pay for their content and their time.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: And I said, And me doing a 10-minute video is very different than me doing a 30-second reel.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's just that's what it's for.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, once I pay for it, it becomes transactional and therefore it's sexual.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, So is going to the movie sexual?
52:43
SPEAKER_00: Because you're paying for that director is is reading a book sexual?
52:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't understand where the transaction is what makes it sexual, because it's not.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: I promise you, I cook pizza the one day.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: So I don't understand that it's it's once it's transactional, nudity sex.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, but it's not.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: And I talk about it all the time how nudity is not sexual, and I know that that is really hard for people to unlearn, but it's just something we we have to keep pushing, and that it is not now.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: Here's the other difference nudity doesn't mean that we're celibate.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: I just gotta put it.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, exactly.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: We are sexual beings, like and there's different times and places where it's appropriate.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:30
SPEAKER_01: And you have to treat those spaces appropriately and be responsible and respectful.
53:34
SPEAKER_01: So you're not gonna go to you know a nude beach and be be sexual because you know, it's where people are going to relax and by being sexual, you're robbing someone of the experience they could be having that might be life-changing.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, it's it's super odd.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: People, oh, you're you're a naturist, so you must not be sexual.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: No, we're we're sexual creatures, so yes, yeah, but we use it in the correct spaces.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: I think because we hammer so hard at these clubs, right?
54:05
SPEAKER_00: That you can't be sexual at these clubs, you can't be sexual because they don't want to cross the line because that they become swingers very quickly.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: So I understand that, but because we hammer it so hard, I think we get the well, either either you're a nudist and you're celibate or you're a swinger and you have sex with everyone and everything.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, there's great areas, like yeah, we we just know how to control ourselves and we just do it at home.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's interesting how the public perceives every aspect of nudist, but they aren't nudists, and so they don't actually know any of what happens.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, it's real interesting.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: We have a ways to go.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: Um I actually don't typically use the word nudist, which is so funny that I've used it so much here.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: I typically use nate because I have so many friends in Europe.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and nudist is actually more sexual in Europe.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: That's why they use the term nature.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: So nudist is almost like what we say for swinger.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they don't use the term lifestyle, right?
55:07
SPEAKER_00: They so they will just say lifestyle as in meaning the word lifestyle, where in this world you say lifestyle, it's automatically like swinger and sexual.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I have to be really careful about what I say.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: So on my Instagram, 90% of the time I'll say naturist just because of how many European friends I have, and just making sure that there's like no blurring of the lines.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, for this conversation, we're using Naturist and nudist um interchangeably.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: Interchangeably.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, thank you, Ernst, for coming on.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate your time and being willing to be open and talk about this.
55:49
SPEAKER_01: I think you're doing a phenomenal job, and it's exactly what the world needs right now.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: And if you know any millionaires, we could start that mall.
55:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm down.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm down.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: I will I will help out.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: We need to start a GoFundMe for a big nudist mall.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Dude, that would be awesome.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: I think people would be down to do that.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, thank you so much for having me.
56:12
SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
56:13
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
56:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: Have a uh have a great day.
56:17
SPEAKER_01: You too.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: The all right.
56:23
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Aaron, for coming on the podcast and sharing your story and your thoughts with us.
56:27
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you in the way that you're showing up in the world for people to kind of see what naturism is all about, and I think it's something that's really needed.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: And thank you to everyone for listening.
56:38
SPEAKER_01: If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, and if you feel so led to, please leave an honest review and share it with someone who might enjoy it.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, get naked, be free, be kind.